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Ep 36 - Sheba and Saurabh Garg share a coffee
94 Plays3 years ago
Presenting a conversation over coffee with Saurabh Garg. Saurabh is a marketer, writer, and in general, a tinkerer. More about Saurabh is on his website.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest's Apology
00:00:02
Speaker
I'm delighted to have you in the podcast where all stories are welcome and the masks come off.
00:00:13
Speaker
Hi, Saurabh. Hi, Shiva. Welcome to Soul Brews with Shiva and it's such a pleasure to have you on Coffee and Soul. Thank you so much for making the time. Thank you so much, Shiva. And I must apologize to you and to everybody else watching that this is like the fifth time I think we had to change because I was not available. I'm typically not this busy, but it just happened, right? So can't help it. Being busy is a great thing. So I'm really delighted for you and very happy to have changed the Soul Brew time.
Coffee Addiction Story
00:00:40
Speaker
That's perfectly okay.
00:00:42
Speaker
Do you have your cup of coffee or tea ready? So here's the thing right Chiba if we recorded this conversation about two months ago I would have had like some 20 coffees lined up here because I was a maniac I would drink it like like water like some 20 cups a day and and so much so that you know everything in my house is like Starbucks like you know this coaster is on my table which is a Starbucks
00:01:03
Speaker
But I'm one of those people who wants to keep improving all the time. And I said, why do I have to rely on external stimulant like coffee to be at my peak, you know, when I work. So I decided I'll quit coffee. And it's been a couple of weeks now. And, and yeah, so you can see dark circles already popping up in my eyes. So I drink soda like water. So let's drink a lot of soda now. Yes.
00:01:33
Speaker
Okay, so let us raise a cheer. Cheers. I love your cup. Thank you. Here's to life. Cheers, man. Welcome. Welcome on, SoulGurus. You already have a lot to do with SoulGurus considering you guys publish it, you guys work on it. So it's such a joy to have you here and
00:01:58
Speaker
Let me start, right? I mean, it's always tough when a podcaster speaks to another podcaster. Both of us cannot stop talking about nothing. So, Sushiva, I have to start by saying that, you know, you and I is one of those luckiest accidents that I've ever had in my life. In the sense that, I mean, Rashi connected us, and Rashi and I first met, I think,
00:02:20
Speaker
10 years ago, if I'm not wrong. And then we lost touch because she got busy with her life. I got busy with my career. And then finally, one fine day, she sent an email to a common group saying somebody helped us with podcasting and that's when I connected. And I think every interaction from there on with you or Rashi has been like a really, really good
Life-Shaping Lucky Accidents
00:02:38
Speaker
one. And I've totally enjoyed each conversation.
00:02:41
Speaker
Each chat has made me think, reflect, even cry for that matter, being very, very honest about it. And yeah, so I think it's a great lucky accident. And I think that's what defines my life, if I may want to.
00:02:54
Speaker
So talk to me a little bit more about that. And I don't want to say that there are no coincidences. So no lucky accidents. This is meant to be, I'm getting a lot from you. And I'm happy that I can contribute in some way in your life. So I'm delighted about that. And that's what it's about, right? The interconnections. So tell me more about what you were saying. Sorry. OK. So I'm just thinking, where do I backtrack? Clearly, I haven't scripted this, and I don't have a narrative.
00:03:20
Speaker
OK, so if I were to count the number of blessings in my life that I consider blessings, I mean, everything is a blessing. The fact that I have access to internet connection to be able to talk to people across the world is a blessing by itself. But if I were to tangibleize my blessings, I would say some large ones happened to me purely because there were some lucky accidents that happened to me. So for example, let me go way back to when I was a kid.
00:03:46
Speaker
Let's tell your story. Yeah, so when I was two, my parents, my mom and my dad, they are from Haryana and they grew up in Haryana and they lived in Haryana. So till I was two, they were still back home in Haryana in a place called Hissar, which is a very small town. I mean, now it's a larger town, but back then it was a very small town.
00:04:04
Speaker
So for some weird reason, my dad doesn't talk about it till date. He decided to move to Delhi when I was two. And my sis was about, I think, three, four months or something like that. So actually, number one, if my parents didn't move to Delhi, I probably wouldn't be here. By now, I mean, if I were back in Hirana, I would have a Gurga Kinara Bandar or something like that. I would have a Baganar and I would have like some two kids, probably five kids.
00:04:28
Speaker
And they will be running around me right now. So the first shift in my life happened when my parents moved from Haryana to Delhi. Lucky accident. I had nothing to do with it, right? Okay, so let me qualify, right? So lucky accidents are things that I didn't have anything to do with. I didn't play a role. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time. So being born in Haryana was an accident that I couldn't choose. My parents decided that the one who came back to Delhi was an accident. When they came back to Delhi, they
00:04:56
Speaker
being honest they didn't have a lot of money to sort of support our education but they ensured that they put us in the best school that they could find and and they knew that in Delhi government schools aren't great so they found a private school that they could afford the biggest school to afford they put me and my sister there
00:05:13
Speaker
And I'm super grateful for that, obviously, because if not that, I wouldn't be again here. That's that. Then I'm just thinking of more accidents along the way. I don't know who skipped too many years. So I grew up as a regular child. So we always had issues with money, as in money was not abundant. But it was always enough to have a comfort of a roof and comfort of buying video games and mangoes and whatever you want as a child, you had all of that.
00:05:43
Speaker
But be aware that it was limited. For example, my best friend's daughter, who I call my god daughter, if she today says that she wants a gift worth a couple of lakhs.
00:05:55
Speaker
I mean, we don't even blink an eye and just get that for us. Back then we could get expensive gifts and expensive things, but we were always aware that it would take some time for us to get that. Like if I wanted a video game, my parents had to plan for a few months before they could buy that video game for me and my sister. So that was that. So like accidents, then let me just fast forward because that's what I recall a fast forward to when I was about 18 or 19, I was in a college in Delhi.
00:06:23
Speaker
And I had no clue what to do with my life at that point in time. I mean, that's a question that is still lingering right now, but then it was more tough, right?
00:06:33
Speaker
So, so, uh, I go to college one of these days and then one, one of my classmates is sitting with this fat book on his desk and it says cat preparation. And I asked him that, you know, dude, what is this cat preparation? What are you trying to do here? So he says that this is something that you take. This is an exam that you take. It takes you to go to school and you get a knockery after that. This is the time. I think when, uh, by to get just happened and jobs were abundant. So, so this was a good option to, you know, by the time, I mean, you know,
00:07:02
Speaker
So I wrote, I mean, I had like two, three months to prepare for it, wrote CAD, got a couple of calls from a couple of these schools, could not convert, but at least I knew that this is the direction that I want to sort of take in life. So I prepared for a year for CAD and then went to MDI. Now this is super important for me to put forth when I talk to anybody
Transformative MDI Experience
00:07:21
Speaker
over here. So if this was sort of when he went to MDI, MDI two years probably took me to like a different plane altogether. Okay, so it was so life-changing for you.
00:07:30
Speaker
Oh, I mean, I'm saying that if I didn't go to MDI, I would still have Garg, Bhartan Bandar probably in Delhi. And if not five kids, two kids, and if not a wagon or a scooter or a chetak for sure. So before I went to MDI, I was one of those people who was
00:07:44
Speaker
I always went to a small school, small locality, middle class locality. So I was amongst the better ones there, right? So me, my world was always this much.
00:08:01
Speaker
And in that world, I was the king. So there was nothing that I could do. Suddenly, I go to MDI. My roommate is a topper from Bitzpilani. I mean, it's a fancy school. The guy next to me, I mean, the guy next to me in the hostel is a topper from IIT Delhi. My first friend that I made was a topper from this college called CBS in Delhi again. So suddenly, from being the king in a small world, a big fish in a very tiny pond, I was this tiny, insignificant, insignificant fish in the ocean of the world.
00:08:31
Speaker
More than reality check, it was, I think, okay, reality check is an interesting word. To me, it was more like, as inspired. Now, this is when lucky accident, MDA was itself a lucky accident. Now, when I went there, so it's funny now, but that then it was scary.
00:08:55
Speaker
So I had come from a point, come from a background wherein I was always the best student, extracurriculars, co-curriculars, academics. I mean, think of a thing. And I was amongst them. I would sing. I was singing in my school band, school choir, drums. I mean, I would, I was like one of those, right. You know, uh, just didn't know there was film antena, that hero there. That was bad, right. But MDMA, I was nobody and I was young and I was brash and I was, uh, uh, how do I put it?
00:09:23
Speaker
I'm from Delhi, right? So I was like, if there are so many cool people, I may not be able to beat them in their past accolades. I can't go back to IIT Delhi and talk that institute. But what I can do is I can do really well in academics at MDI. So in the first semester, it's a it's a sixth trimester course at MDI. So in the first trimester,
00:09:46
Speaker
I worked very, very hard as in I was up for like 18 hours a day. I did very, very hard. And then, I mean, when the exam results came out after the first semester, I remember I was 70th in a class of 120 people. Okay. This is when I was like a dude. I don't understand anymore. So I'm sure that I will only do enough to pass my exams and I'll broaden my horizons and participate into everything that I can imagine.
00:10:14
Speaker
So from there on, I went and was part of a cultural committee,
Entrepreneurial Journey
00:10:17
Speaker
business school, business competition committees. And think of a thing that happens beyond academics, I was part of that. So Alumni Committee and Placement Committee and this and that. I was all over the place. And this is when the real education started happening because I was not reading what was being taught in the class, but I was actually
00:10:36
Speaker
consuming real life problems and I was trying to solve them. I'll have a student for the college. So I managed the management, what do you call it, event wherein we get these speakers from various companies. So that lucky accident actually taught me the value of multitasking. And that is one thing that I sort of stayed with me till now, like till today I juggle multiple things, like, you know it, I run a podcast in peace, I do land consulting, I write my own work. So all these things are actually probably
00:11:06
Speaker
ingrained to be from. So question as a reflection more than anything else is. So now that, you know, you have your hands full with multiple things, your focus on each and all of them is a hundred percent. Absolutely not. Zero answer is in fact, that is one of the, one of the biggest challenges that I face in life today, that, that everybody I need, including you and Rashi and everybody who's more learned than me, they tell me that, you know, dude, how do you focus on those things?
00:11:35
Speaker
Now I don't have an answer, but if I could try to, you know, justify to you, let me try to justify to you, assuming Shiba is my boss and she's asking me, I'm trying to justify to Shiba. So I'd say that, you know, my focus is focus may not be on the output. Podcasting is an output. Film is an output. My focus may not be an output, but our focus is on input. What I want to do is I want to grow people around me. So eating these things that I do, I'm super lucky, like I said, actually, I'm lucky to have a lot of people who
00:12:04
Speaker
who sort of trust me, who believe me and tell me that, you know, sort of a direction though, I will run it with it. So to me, when I say that I run a podcasting company, I do not do, I do not work on it on a day-to-day basis. I have put in the case a team that actually does that. And my role is to sort of mentor the team, try to grow them and make them Aat Manerber if I can do this. So the idea is that I will grow people.
00:12:32
Speaker
And I really believe in this maxim that says, if I've seen further, I've been able to stand on the shoulders of giants. So I am hoping to create giants and tomorrow when they are big, I'm sure they will take care of me when I'm old. So that's the intention with which I'm sort of running my life. Every piece I do is headed by somebody else. I just mentor them and I hope that they
00:12:53
Speaker
not forget me when they are there. Then I'm sure they will not forget you also. So, Tike, what did MDI work? And some things, and this is really like defining moments for you. What are the others? Where did you go after? What was the learnings? So, okay, MDI happened. MDI may realize that, you know, okay, let me also give you a simple anecdote.
00:13:20
Speaker
So when this interview for MDI happened, right, because when you get to a B school, they try to do multiple rounds of interview, right. So there's ED and there is a personal interview and they asked GK. So Shiva at that point in time, when I was interviewing for MDI, I could not speak in English very well. I remember most of my interview happened in English. So, so somebody asked me, tell us about yourself. And I would break down. I would not be able to construct one sentence in English. Well,
00:13:46
Speaker
But to me, I clearly knew that that was my limitation with living in this new, broadened world that I had just seen, I had to improve in the language. So those two years at MDI, I violated all the other co-curricular things, extracurricular things. I also tried to work on my English. So what did I do for that is I read like a crazy man, like I would not do anything but to read. So no films, no entertainment, but only reading. And I started this.
00:14:13
Speaker
Obvious suspects, like Kevin Buck, for example. I mean, easy to read. So he keeps you hooked. We may or may not like him, but to me, he's been a big influence. Then I read things like Jeffrey Yars. I mean, easy read, right? I do not read those heavy books that would make me think. I just read for the pleasure of reading and for getting comprehension as an English language. I also started to write a blog around that time. Now, blog is a simple website where you update
Philosophy on Relationships and Opportunities
00:14:39
Speaker
on a daily basis. So I was sending updates. And if I had to look back at my posts,
00:14:43
Speaker
from 2004 and 2005, I cringe at those. If the language was sadder, what process of what was sadder? I'm like, I'm reflected. And then I'm like, you have become, so just to add on to what you're saying. So A, for me, that's this new world opened up. So I wanted to explore the entire world. Second thing I did was that I realized that this language of communication that I have is super limiting. So I had to break out of that. So English happened.
00:15:13
Speaker
I may not be a great orator today. I may not be a great, I may not have a great vocabulary, but I think I can hold audiences when I speak in English now. I've come a long way from that. So that's the other thing that happened. The third thing that I didn't do back then, and I should have done to be honest, is I should have invested a little more on relationships. So you know it, and then obviously, I mean, I'm having to talk about this, but last one year has been very, very tough on me in terms of my work and the way I
00:15:42
Speaker
look at, look at the world. And, and Shiba, when tough times are around, you need people to sort of support you, back you and then Shiba. The people that came forth and helped me were the ones that I knew for like last, you know, 15, 20 years from MDI. Now, if I had a little more, if I'd done a little more work to nurture those relationships, I would have had an army of people who wanted to help me, but I just had like two or three.
00:16:10
Speaker
Great for those people. If I didn't have those people, I would probably be in a far different mind space compared to where I am right now. But, but, but I think if, if, I mean, I don't, I have nobody to give lessons, but if I could give lessons to people here, I think, I think there's a quote by a guy called Naval Ravi Kant. That is what I live by. It says, play long-term games with long-term people. Long-term games is, as in you and I want to be friends, business partners, associates, et cetera, for the rest of our lives.
00:16:39
Speaker
and long-term people is that you should be able to identify that, you know, this one person is somebody who would be able to stay with me for the rest of my life. So that filter is now very, very short in my head that every person I need, automatically I try to slot them that, you know, is this person going to be a long-term friend connection for me or not? If I have an inkling that goes on, I do a lot to ensure that I nurture that relationship. That's very, very interesting. Very interesting, Saurabh.
00:17:09
Speaker
So not my original thought. Are you acting on it? No, that's amazing. So like I was finishing that Shiba, I don't do it from either an altruistic motive or a selfish motive. I am somebody who wants to just chromate arts. I want to maximize the order of success. So if by being a little more polite, if by being a little more giving, if I'm being a little more open about the way I live my life, if I can create a nurture long-term relationships,
00:17:35
Speaker
Why not? Because if I lying to you and lying to somebody else and lying to a third person in my head, I'm just thinking in my head, I'm very sure that the story that I tell you is the same story that I would tell a Rashi or somebody else. I am peaceful, clear, better in my head that I would operate my life. I think that I would probably do if I can go back to MDI.
00:18:01
Speaker
This is what I tell each of the young kids that I work with that long-term games, long-term people, honesty, et cetera, et cetera. So that's that. The other thing that has happened to me, again, going back to the drive of lucky, right? So MDA I got placed into GE, I mean, GE, the GE, and I think the biggest mistake of my life, because I don't belong to a big company, to be honest, I'm a little more free-spirited compared to what just demand of you, right?
Realization at GE and Business Ventures
00:18:28
Speaker
nothing wrong with it, right? To create large organizations, you need a certain kind of people. Yes, absolutely. And then there are people who thrive in that, right? And for example, he works with, he works with, with, with Cadbury's Mondelez. Yes. Very structured company, right? And he does very well there. Money has wins all the awards. And you know what I'm saying? So that's my best friend. And he and I keep fighting about it all the time.
00:18:53
Speaker
I tell him that, you know, he tells me why are you struggling about buying to, you want to buy a car, but you don't have the money. You could have just told the HR and they would have got you a great offer. You know, those, those arguments happen, right? So, so, so the point I was trying to make is I went to GE and I realized that it was a very, very long place for me to be at. And the day I joined them, I quit. I mean, I didn't, I didn't quit.
00:19:17
Speaker
They gave me a fat joining bonus and the money was important to me. That bonus accrued to me after exactly one year I quit. And when I quit, I didn't have a knockery in my hand and my parents were at last that, you know, it's a knockery. Lucky accident too, I met this guy called Rajkuru. He runs an agency called Creative Land Asia. And back then I was looking for a knockery in Advising and
00:19:44
Speaker
I got two consultants. She got me introduced with two, three people. Everybody wanted to hire me. Raj offered me more money. So, so I just said, I joined Raj. It was not compared to GE, which is fair enough. I mean, I mean, I was okay with that, but I joined Raj and Shiva. I have to use my hands again. So if this was sort of before MDI, this sort of after MDI, this sort of after MDI, Raj took me like even higher. So gave a super C change in the way I operate.
00:20:11
Speaker
So, like I told you, MDI, before I went to MDI, my world was this. MDI made this. Raj made this. What was that thing? They are still an advertising agency. They are amongst them. No, no, not what they do. What was your worldview? How did it change? What happened to you? Okay. So, let me try to articulate. So, before MDI, I told you, I got that before MDI and at MDI.
00:20:44
Speaker
But I was stopped there. I did not know what to do with the Dunia. Like I can see a million opportunities out in front of me. I can do this and I can talk to this person. The MDS stamp allows me to talk to whoever in the world I want to. So that is all great. What Raj did to me and I'm grateful to him is that, you know, he allowed me to, he showed me that, you know, how do you grab those?
00:21:07
Speaker
So you know that there is a pearl that is lying there in front of you. Now, most of us will probably be skeptical. Should I be picking it up? So you have those questions in your mind. Do you even deserve it? Like you ask those questions, right? Do you even deserve it? Now Raj was somebody who was again, super self-made, quit a large agency to start a smallish
00:21:30
Speaker
a creative agency. When I joined him, so I was his first employee, I was just setting a different agency, second employee, actually. And I was 24, 25, I don't remember, like very young. So even at that age, Raj said that sort of you're an equal. Like if you walk into a room with me, you're an equal. So at that age, I was going and pitching to the owners of large businesses. Nobody has at least my cohort was doing at that point in time, because you're just junior. Correct. And you're doing multiple things, right? So
00:21:58
Speaker
One thing that Raj did for me for sure was he gave me that confidence. But you need to believe that you can own the world. The world is out there for you to take. So that's a confidence that he gave me. That is one. And he just didn't talk about it. He actually showed it.
00:22:17
Speaker
Like I remember, I mean, I should not talk about this on video. I'll ask him for his permission before this goes live. So he said back then, he said that I want to set up my agency as a youth brand. And he said that this is 2007, seven or eight, I'm not sure the exact time. So he said, I want to want this agency to be a youth centric agency. And this time Catholic Coffee Day was just coming up as a in the country. He said that I want to get Catholic Coffee Day as a client for my agency because position us as a youth brand.
00:22:47
Speaker
Now imagine thinking about getting a certain client, finding the connections, going to pitch to them, winning the account and doing a fabulous job. It's been like 10, 12 years now.
00:22:59
Speaker
But he, he said that, so to me, that was the lesson and value in, in, in, in, in that guy, right? So, so, so that is, I mean, there are multiple things that I was with him for two years, to be honest, but he did a lot of things for me. So like he was the first guy to have taken, I mean, he took me to Cannes way back in 2007. I don't remember my first international trip. So I always will remember that in my life. And he had no reason to take me. I was not a creative guy.
00:23:29
Speaker
I was very new to the system. I hadn't, I wasn't sure that I'll stay with him. So he took me and then he actually showed me. He didn't just make me a dream, but he actually showed me how to fulfill those dreams. So that is what Raj
00:23:53
Speaker
And until that I'm grateful I meet him often. I mean, he's super busy now, but I try to meet him whenever I can. And until that he tells me, I don't think I belong there anymore because they're far bigger and far better than who I am. But I'm grateful to Raj for doing that.
00:24:14
Speaker
Lucky accident, right? I never planned to meet Raj. I just meeting advertising agency guys. And I picked him because he offered me more money. So, so I should take it. And after that, now you're at a place where you're doing few things differently. You, you, you have the podium as a, as a podcast. You, what else are you doing? Okay.
00:24:33
Speaker
So it's a tough one. Again, a tough one. My life is about tough prices. So what I do is on a day-to-day basis to make my money, bread and butter comes from a business called C4E. We started as an events agency, but thanks to COVID, events is shut. So we had to pivot to doing content and marketing and social media and strategy. So now C4E is an agency that does brand strategy for multiple other clients. So we do it in two ways.
00:25:01
Speaker
I go as a consultant, I go as an individual consultant to those people and give them yarn. And two, I take on projects as an agency and I deliver to those people. So that's the bread and butter for me. And this has been true for the last four, five years. Since I've started C4E, every time I made big profits, I didn't buy a car. I didn't buy a car. I put that chunk out and say that I would put money behind one young person
00:25:27
Speaker
It's amazing. So go ahead. Tell me you put money behind one young person. Go ahead. So each time I made a big chunk of profit, I said, I will invest into one big, one young person. So, so far I have made money like five, six times in my life, like big chunk of money. So I have supported five, six people like that. So now I'll just talk about each of those.
00:25:49
Speaker
Yes, yes, absolutely. And I can see you. Yeah, there was a pop-up. Sorry about this. So first thing, so I was saying that, you know, I was, I would support these young people. So the first young person I want to talk about is a lady called Krakruti. She is what, 27, 28. I don't know the, I don't know how old she is, but again, lucky accident. So on Twitter, I said that, you know, Hey, I'm a book writer and I want to meet other people who talk about books. She responded to my tweet, came to meet me first time I met her.
00:26:17
Speaker
And today, together, we run this platform called Purple Pencil Project. When we do book reviews, we talk to book authors. Purple Pencil Project. Purple Pencil Project. So we do book reviews, we do author interviews, and so on and so forth. The larger intention there is at P3, we call it P3 internally. At P3 is that we want to be the largest database of Indian literature. So for example, Shiba, if I asked you that, you know, Kansai Shiba, what is the background? Which place do you belong to?
00:26:45
Speaker
Like, which part of the country? Delhi, actually, because we've come from, my grandparents have come from Pakistan. My super-real parents came from Lahore, and Miawali, and all that. Arguementsake, you were still Urdu-speaking, you know, family argumentsake, right? Urdu, Hindi, Punjabi. Yeah, so if I ask you that, you know, okay, Punjabi. If I ask you who is the best author of Punjabi language?
00:27:10
Speaker
most people will struggle to answer that, even though you come from Punjab, arguments, like people don't come from Tamil Nadu.
00:27:16
Speaker
will not know who's the best Tamil writer. People like us, you and me. My parents will probably know a different generation will know, but this generation doesn't know. So at P3, we are trying to solve for that and we want to create an Indian language, not database, but a library of Indian language content and information around it. We don't want those to die. You know what I'm saying? Very lovely. That's lovely. That's the large part there. So P3 today is a team of three people. I mean, Prakriti and there are two more people that support her.
00:27:45
Speaker
I supported today on a day-to-day basis in terms of money. Krakriti manages on a day-to-day basis in terms of editorial, vision, et cetera, et cetera. And so that's the first kid that I supported. Let me call them kids. So that's one. The other kid that I supported is this girl called Shikha. She runs a website called the Red Sparrow. So that's purple pencil. This is Red Sparrow. And Sparrow is exactly similar, but for films. And the entire idea is that you want to give a platform
00:28:13
Speaker
to aspiring filmmakers to interact with other established filmmakers. So in that platform, what we've done is we've done interviews, we've done live sessions. That's brilliant. So that's the second large investment that I made. Then I made one investment with a gentleman called Sojoy. It was around travel. Same thing around travel. It didn't do well. I had to shut down. So that's out of the window. Then I made another investment called Grape Excel in somebody who wanted to do around photography and videography.
00:28:42
Speaker
So that's struggling to be honest right now. I don't know where it will go. And podium is what you know about. So these are the five big ones that I had. And then apart from the cheaper, what I've also done is I mean, there've been a couple of more that I've shut. I don't know if it makes sense to talk about those. Like there was one that was about recycling paper and creating a brand of stationery that could be sold to corporates. Like in a big company, you need tons of paper, right? And you typically print on one side and waste the other side. So what happens? Yeah.
00:29:11
Speaker
You know, your ideas are amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So I, if, okay, here are the things, if I were to write a biography of mine today, like today, I would call myself the ideas man. This book is called this, this is, is reacting to the title of biography of a guy called Paul Allen, one of my co-founder. And when I read about him, I feel that, you know, he and I are so similar, man. Like he's got ideas that are, you know, in sports and science and music and space and,
00:29:37
Speaker
and art and, you know, he's done everything in the world. And I think I should be like a Paul Allen at some point in my life. So, so that's what I've been doing. And in fact, in fact, I continue to support this. So, so, so like last one or two years, I've been tough for me in terms of, uh, in terms of money and work. So it's been tough, but now that things are coming back on track, I'm already looking for the next opportunity, like follow the place. In fact, Sheila, one of the conversations we had, you and I had offline, we spoke about this thing called movement.
00:30:07
Speaker
I can see that, you know, this moment has to happen and I enjoy when I'm causing atoms to collide to each other. And if you drag back a bit, Shiva, sorry, I mean, I'm talking a lot, right? But you are meant to be, this is your space, you have to talk. So if you drag back, if you realize that what I'm trying to do here, I'm trying to cause lucky accidents for other people as well. So I'm just being the catalyst where in those accidents can happen. And then none of these have to come back to me and give me
00:30:35
Speaker
uh, either a validation or my, in fact, if this goes out on, on, on, on YouTube Shiba, uh, this would be the first ever, like, like, like video of mine on the internet. It will go out on YouTube. You know, so these are acts of generosity and, uh, and, uh, and, and therefore it's a way of being, and it must be talked about. People must know that there are ways of being which are different, right? Go ahead.
00:31:05
Speaker
I have a very small comment to make here. So I don't do this from a generosity perspective. I understand. I'm a very selfish human being. So, so I know that sort of individual has very limited capability. I'm not the best writer. I'm not the best marketer. I'm not the best, you know, I'm not best at anything, but what I do know is long-term games, long-term people. I know that if I grow people tomorrow,
00:31:32
Speaker
they will be able to support me. Out of these 10 bachchas that I have, if one of them supports me, I think I will die a happy man. So it's not generosity, Shiva. I want to just put that aside. It's just an investment. Absolutely. It's an investment and an investment in people more than anything else. I still want to be friends with those people. Obviously, it doesn't happen that often. In fact, one of the things that I was doing on did not end up well. I mean, the lady and I end up
00:32:02
Speaker
I was more sad about the fact that she and I had got no longer friends than about the money that had gone down, the trade or the time that had gone down. So to me, people are more important to me. Yeah. So when you say people are more important, I mean, this is one of my favorite.
00:32:20
Speaker
So you're investing in people, yet you feel very bad with things sour. I mean, if it is just an investment or there's nothing linked to it, there's no emotion in it, there's nothing. So Phil, what is this? Why do you feel bad? Yeah, so let me ask that, right? So argument's sake, let me talk of Red Sparrow, argument's sake. So if you guys are an individual that I'm trying to help create Red Sparrow, right?
00:32:48
Speaker
Tomorrow, after a year, we realize that Red Sparrow is not working out. Now, after we check Red Sparrow, if Shikhan has some friends, tomorrow we can create a purple, you know, hippo, for example, we can create whatever after that. So Shikhan, I need to be friends for the rest of our life. So this Red Sparrow is, I'm detached to it. What I'm attached to very mostly is this thing called Shikha Jain. Like to me, that's important. Similarly, you and me, right? Now this podcast could start to stop tomorrow. This conversion can stop today.
00:33:17
Speaker
But the fact that this interaction with Chiba brought me a step closer to her as an individual. To me, that individual is not more important. Now, the example that I mentioned that relationship went sour, investment is okay. I mean, that didn't work out as fine. But the fact that I'm no longer friends with her and I cannot call her in gossip about somebody else. Like, you know, she was a friend. So she and I, our favorite activity was that she will call me and say, she will say, it's a sort of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit.
00:33:46
Speaker
I don't know those people, right? But to me, that ability to talk to people without any filters and I could be myself and I know that this will stay between her and me.
00:34:02
Speaker
To me, that is far more important. So for now, that is me. I'm not attached to the output. But tomorrow, if Shikha has attached to the red sparrow, and when the red sparrow goes bust, maybe Shikha has somebody who will come back to me and say, I don't know what to do. I mean, she could be more attached to the red sparrow. I'm going to do this, but maybe she is. So that is my quick answer. So to me, people are more important. I cannot disappoint people who have put their faith in me.
00:34:32
Speaker
Very interesting what you're saying. And I would encourage and ask you to do some processing around this, because there are some very interesting things you're saying that seem to be contradictory, but are not. And so knitting it together, knitting it together for yourself, for your own narrative, might be something useful at some point in time. Tell me, Sarabhan, all the things that you do, when the chips are down, what do you fall back on? What's the adage you live by?
00:35:02
Speaker
multiple things. In fact, the last, in fact, this entire one year has, okay, or about in this one year, I don't think chips were down for me ever. I'm lucky like that. I've seen ups and downs and everybody sees ups and downs, professionally, money, health. Apart from this COVID here, Shiva, I had a challenge. Like I told you, right? So I quit Raj.
00:35:28
Speaker
Got another lucky break with another gentleman who made my life even higher. Quit that guy, did my startup, didn't work out, which is fine. Met another guy who took me another level, right? So in my life, I've been super lucky with things. So apart from this one year, I haven't had to fall back on things. So that's my first submission, answer, whatever you want to call it. One. Second.
00:35:52
Speaker
What do I fall back on. Let me think about this and I'm thinking and processing right now. So a is that I like to be alone.
Coping Strategies and Life Purpose
00:36:00
Speaker
So if things don't go well for me. I don't want to
00:36:03
Speaker
I don't want a shoulder, I don't want to go to somebody, like I don't want to go to my girlfriend or my best friend or whoever, my parents for that matter or my sister, I don't want to go to anybody and cry on their shoulders. I believe in that, right? There's a famous quote that goes, walk in the rain so that nobody can see your tears. That's a good quote. So if I'm sad, I will cut off myself from the entire world.
00:36:25
Speaker
And then here's the thing, I will not lock myself in the room. I will be out and about, but I will be by myself. I'll go to a Starbucks, sit there for like two hours, read a book. I am sorry to admit this, but I watched Tarak Mehta called Tatashma.
00:36:41
Speaker
It's my guilty pleasure. I enjoy it. I love it. So when chips are down, if it's a small incident like today, for example, I'll be screwed in my head. So I'll just watch that method. I'll be okay. But if it's a long term thing, let's say, obviously, to me, the escape typically tends to be either going on a long drive. I don't have a vehicle. So I need to borrow cars, which is okay. I can do that. But
00:37:10
Speaker
But answer is that I try to be alone by myself and that is first thing that helps you. Second thing is that Shiva, I've been writing super consistently since at least 2004. It's been 16 years that I've been writing and I write at multiple places. The public blog that I write is a private note that I make for myself.
00:37:27
Speaker
So every time things don't work for me, I try to write those and try to capture those articulate those. I don't admit this to other people, but often I don't read what I've written. So let's say, let's say today was a day when I was like super mad in my head. I would write something. It would be very angsty, ranty post, but I would not go back and read it. But to me in my head, at least I've dumped it out. So I'm okay with it. The second thing.
00:37:53
Speaker
Third Shiva, I have to admit that, you know, I am one of those weirdos that nothing affects me. I sleep well. Like, like, like, like, I remember first time in my life, I took udhar from somebody, like first time in my life, in my entire life, I've never taken money from somebody. First time in life, I called somebody and said that, you know, I can't pay my rent, can you pay me money?
00:38:12
Speaker
The guy said no, and I knew that that was a guy that I could count on any day in my entire life. So when that happened, it hit me at two places. A, I was taking udhar, like ego was getting hurt. And B, rejection, you know, from somebody that you knew that would not get hurt. So that was probably the darkest moment of my life. And, and you know,
00:38:35
Speaker
Next day when I woke up, I was absolutely okay. So I can sleep off everything and anything. That's great. That's great resilience, power bouncing back. That's fabulous. I don't know. Maybe, maybe.
00:38:52
Speaker
I have to tell you this, right? I have to tell you this, this didn't come out in the conversation. But, but when I was born, when I was born, the pandit in the family said that, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born, when I was born,
00:39:19
Speaker
He said, this is a unique dude that has come up with this. I'm spending my entire life preparing for that. When I'm the king, I'll sit like this and bring it, bring Gangaur and I'll eat Gangaur from Devdas or whatever. So that's that. And the last thing I have to mention, like how do you, what do you do when the chips are down, right?
00:39:48
Speaker
Like I said, I want to be myself. So that's the base thing. Then I would want to go for a drive or I want to like sleep it off and the luck and right. Obviously on top of it. The last thing is that, you know, like she was, I just said, I'm lucky to have tons of people who support me, you know, who have supported me and who like me to do well. I call them my board.
00:40:08
Speaker
I mean, like the way companies are bored, I have a thing called personal bored. So there are a few people that are part of that. And if I need specific help, I reach out to them. So for example, my sister is part of that board. She's with me. She's my part. She's a part of the board. There's another lady called Vanita. She lives in Malaysia. She's part of that board. Akshay, my partner at podium is part of the board. You know, so I have, I have like some seven people who are part of this, like super close board. When I go to them and ask them, you know,
00:40:33
Speaker
And what I've done is this part, we should let it out. What I've done is that in the board, what I've done is each person knows one part of my life. So like my friend, Ashima, so she only knows my personal issues, like my girlfriends and my physical personal issues. So when I fight the girlfriend, I go to Ashima and crib with her, for example. When I need money, I go and crib to Vanita. When I want to talk about my parents and my family, I go to my sister, for example.
00:40:59
Speaker
But it's a complicated thing. I go to them and I just get over it. So I think, I think, so yeah, so Shiva has a thing, right? In one line, when the chips are down, what do I do? Chips are never down, Shiva. I mean, they're never ever down. This too shall pass, right? So I'm one of those believers on that. So chips are not down for me ever.
00:41:26
Speaker
Good. I'm really happy to hear that. And so, Acha Abab, I believe, Saru, and we're coming to the close of our conversation also, as each individual has something unique to offer to humankind. A gift. What is your gift? I have thought a lot about it. The answer may seem rehearsed, and for other people who may watch this, Shiva didn't throw this question at me before the door ended. So, Shiva, my answer is,
00:41:55
Speaker
that my, I don't know my gift or not, but let me, let me articulate differently. So what is that purpose? Why am I here? Like, you know, in the grand scheme of things, why am I on planet earth? Why did Saurabh take birth? What, what was the grand plan of, um, I don't believe in God, but universe to put something called Saurabh here. So the answer is Siva, I stand for opportunities and I exist to create opportunities in life so that people, that's it.
00:42:22
Speaker
Now, and every act that I've done seems to go back to this. Like bad example, Apka podcast. You are already doing sessions on Zoom and you wanted to find an audio group doing it. So I didn't play a large role, but I ensured that you moved a needle from where you were. Stop. You played a large role.
00:42:43
Speaker
Thank you. I appreciate that. Appreciate that. Thank you. But it won't be possible singularly by me. You had to do something. Somebody else had to do something. But I was part of the team that made it happen. So I made
00:42:57
Speaker
I created one more opportunity for you. I've created an opportunity for them. And yeah, so that's where I am. In fact, my published life goal is that I want to impact a billion lives. But it's published. It's on my website. You are well on your way.
00:43:21
Speaker
I hope so. I'm sure people have come back to me and said that sort of, if not for you, we wouldn't be here. I mean, like I, okay, I have to, I don't have the credit for it to happen because of one of my babies, one of my websites. A guy wrote to me and said that sort of, if not for this dash website that you run, I would have killed myself. To me that day was, that day was validation of last seven years of
00:43:48
Speaker
effort and work. Like imagine I prevented one guy from committing suicide. Yeah, man. It was, it was, it was, it was insane. It was like, when he told me I was dumbfounded, I did not know what to do. And I was like shocked beyond belief because I treat life as a, not a joke, but I am very, very easy going. Like we have, you and I have spoken often, right? Our common friend thinks that I am a fool.
00:44:12
Speaker
And another common friend thinks that I'm the greatest person alive. So, so I don't get affected by the negatives, but when somebody like that comes to you, you like, you start, you know, rethinking Kiar, what is it that you did? He's just their third his entire life to one of the things that not me, but other people together have done. But, but to me that is validation. And so that's one person that at least I've made a change to. So I need to do it for.
00:44:39
Speaker
9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-9-
Staying Focused Amidst Negativity
00:45:06
Speaker
When I die, I want a billion people to say, I don't care, I don't care. And let me start with death as well in like 10 seconds. When I say death, I don't mean it from the fact that I'm scared of it. I'm not scared of it. The answer is that, you know,
00:45:30
Speaker
I think death is a limiting factor for me. I have let's say 40 more years to live. I don't know, maybe 400 years, depending on science. Yeah, exactly. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this. I have to do this.
00:45:59
Speaker
So how do I put it? That germ has to go fabulous. I wish you every success and great power as you carry on with your mission. Thank you so much. And I want to again acknowledge the fact that you've done so much, even for Soul Brews with Shiba in terms of the value.
00:46:26
Speaker
you continue to publish and support and that's huge sort of and you're probably doing this for a lot of people and also not taking a lot of credit but I believe you should stop and take some credit because then you'll role model for others that it's okay to take credit. Long answer but I hear you, I would have given you a very long answer but I know we are running out of time.
00:46:53
Speaker
this is probably the longest conversation I've had about myself with anybody ever man like I don't talk about myself but apart from a blog obviously so so that is what happens to me so I hear you I will talk about it to you offline about few things I look forward to it any closing remarks I would like you to have is there anything else you'd like to say no so so here's the thing right a like I said I don't know
00:47:19
Speaker
Okay. So A, I don't want this to come across as a, I don't want to come across as a cool person. Like I'm very, very, this is how I am. Right. So that's one. Second is if I could, if I, if I could reach out to more people, I mean, if this goes to more people, if they want to take one lesson away from this interaction, the lesson would be that, you know, long-term games, long-term people.
00:47:44
Speaker
and get your ego out of the way. Like most of my battles with people have been wherein you get attached to a third party idea, you know, a small thing and you battle over it. Like religion, level up arguments, religion, level politics, you know, sports, you know, like local sports, but sports also makes a partition between people who support different teams. So do not get attached to the ego. If that is one thing that I can leave and that's where I am. And
00:48:11
Speaker
And yeah, life is beautiful, man. And you should totally, totally enjoy it. And if there is anything that I can do to help anybody who's listening, I'm very accessible. Just move over, Saurabh, you have to be the first person there to support whoever comes my way. And I want to reiterate and highlight that that is true for all those who are listening, that if there is something that you need support with, Saurabh is a great guy to reach out to and to talk to and tremendous amount of ideas and support that he could give you. So don't hesitate. Ideas.
00:48:42
Speaker
All right. Thank you so much for your time. It's been a pleasure to talk to you and you take care and we'll talk again soon. Thank you very much indeed for having a soul brew with me. Thank you. Bye. Bye, sir. Thanks so much. Thank you for your time and attention and for being a part of Soul Brews with Shiva. Until next week,
00:49:11
Speaker
Keep the coffee swirling.