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Ep 52 - Sheba and Rita Bibra share a coffee
100 Plays3 years ago
Presenting a soul conversation with Rita Bibra.
Rita is an Educationist and an Administrator. Rita is Secretary-General (Retd.) of the Vidya Mandir Society that manages the Educational Institutions of Shri SK Birla.
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Transcript
Introduction and Welcome
00:00:02
Speaker
I'm delighted to have you in the podcast where all stories are welcome and the masks come off. Hi, Rita. Hi there, Shiba. Welcome to Soul Brews with Shiba.
Meet the Guest: Rita
00:00:19
Speaker
I'm so delighted to welcome you on Coffee and Soul. Thank you so much for making the time.
00:00:26
Speaker
My pleasure, happy to be here. My first time on any kind of show, so I'm very delighted. I'm super happy that you did make the time, Rita.
Coffee Preferences and Meditation
00:00:38
Speaker
You have your cup of coffee ready with you? Yes. Okay, good. So I'm just also going to pour myself my cup.
00:00:46
Speaker
What kind of coffee do you drink? I normally have black. There are different kinds. Sometimes Mark's coffee, of course, from Oroville. And sometimes I take blue Tokai, some of the Estates coffee. I like normally a medium roast or a light roast. I don't really like too much dark roast.
00:01:08
Speaker
Cheers, Siva. Good to see your face after such a long time. Good to see you too. So can I just ask you to hold this cup of coffee in between your palms? And if you can just sit back. Sit back. Just relax. Wonderful. And just close your eyes. And the feeling of coffee, warmth of the cup, and the smells of thing of reasons. See if there's anything that comes up for you later.
00:01:38
Speaker
Any feelings or images?
South Indian Coffee Nostalgia
00:01:42
Speaker
Basically, I get the feeling of a South Indian coffee brew, you know? Yes. I had spent about three weeks at, I forget the name of the hotel in Chennai, doing a course on a whole lot of things, hotel management, sales and marketing. And they had in their coffee shop,
00:02:06
Speaker
and I got addicted to the South Indian. Wow. Yeah, with the results. Can't find it anywhere in Calcutta. Every time we used to travel from Chennai to Pondicherry, Roma was not much of a coffee lover. Yes. She definitely made a stop for me to have my South Indian brew. And you'd be surprised there is no South Indian brew available in Pondicherry.
00:02:36
Speaker
Really? Yeah, I don't find it unless you go to offer the restaurant. Surguru. No, the old one where they sell, it's a very old one. I don't think that it's dead anymore. That's the only place used to get hidden. I used to say, how strange we are in the South of India and not able to get a South Indian room. I know. That's very interesting. I'm really surprised with that. OK.
00:03:05
Speaker
But that is my actually favorite coffee. Okay. Of course, then there's the Starbucks and then there's I drink David off. Yes. But nothing beats the South Indian.
00:03:16
Speaker
I know, I know. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. It's true. Yeah. So, yeah. So, so Rita, linking in from what you were just saying, talked about going to Pondicherry, it was a mention of
Career Beginnings and Family Influence
00:03:32
Speaker
Poma. I'd love to hear a little more about, and my viewers, to know a little more about you and your journey thus far. You know, how has it been for you? I know you worked in education since forever.
00:03:44
Speaker
and take us through it, take us through your journey, your highs and lows and some, yeah, go ahead. You know, I wasn't always in education. I started out in the office as a, first let me tell you in our family, the kind of middle-aged conservative family that I come from, believe it or not, girls were not allowed to work.
00:04:12
Speaker
Wow. How did you escape that? Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And then my father was very keen on education. And then I finished my graduation and I said, uh, I was a bit restless. Wasn't very that bright academically. I mean, I did get through and he, I said, I don't want to study anymore. He said, okay, if you don't want to study, we'll get you married.
00:04:40
Speaker
I said, Oh, my goodness, that doesn't seem like a good option. So I said, No, no, no, no, I don't want to get married yet. So he always used to say teaching is a very noble profession. So I joined the classes for teaching teachers training. Actually, I was quite devoted to my father. We he was the world. And he and I were always at logarithm.
00:05:09
Speaker
about everything. He would sit at the head of the table and I'd be at the foot of the table and he'd argue and butt heads because I wanted to question every dikta that he threw at us. And one of them was that, you know, teaching is a noble profession. So I enrolled for teaching.
Teaching Challenges and Career Shift
00:05:30
Speaker
Right. And I got good grades, but then I took up a job, strangely enough, this place called Hindi High School.
00:05:38
Speaker
Okay. And I was there for 15 days. All of 15 days. Yeah, go ahead. Talking that much. Yeah. Just going to come home. And my dad would be very happy to see me and say, how was your day? And I'd say, okay, have a cup of tea, then we'll talk.
00:06:06
Speaker
Two weeks is all I could manage because it was a boy's school. It was so rowdy and they would throw these paper plates at me. There were 45 students in the class. I hadn't the pockets. I was this 118 pound girl who had never worn a sari and I was in my sari trying to be very teacherish and all that didn't work.
00:06:31
Speaker
And then when I resigned, of course, my results hadn't come out as yet. In the meanwhile, they gave me a job. When I resigned and went to the principal, he said, but why are you leaving? And I told him something very rude. He said, aat ke skur mein, aamir logo ke patami zar ke paten. That was Mr. Pandit.
00:06:57
Speaker
Andit was brother of one of his famous actors in Hindi movie Rajkumar. Oh, okay. So, and I got a whole, even those just teach us salary was 250 bucks. Yeah. So whatever was my due, I got that salary and I walked back and I picked up little gifts for the entire family, dad, mom, sister, brothers, servants, friends.
00:07:25
Speaker
those days you could buy, there was this showroom downstairs, Bombay dining, beautiful sardines for five rupees. My God, that's amazing. Amazing. I'm talking about 1965. Just about. Just about before. So I came home and I told my family that I quit.
00:07:51
Speaker
And these are the gifts that my father very upset. He says, you will amount to nothing. You understand Punjabi? I understand Punjabi. Of course, I know I'm a Punjabi. He tells me,
00:08:09
Speaker
Zindagi which so translated for my viewers, meaning you really have be bitter tears in the future because you'll amount to nothing. That kind of lodged in my heart, very deep hurt me quite a bit also. So I said, Okay, then I started doing law that also was, he was very interested in astrology. Okay. And he
00:08:39
Speaker
had these friends who would come and discuss horrors of the North. And of course, I was very argumentative thanks to Perry Mason and all the other books that I used to read. So you used to read a lot. A lot. We had an Oxford bookstore library over here on Oxford.
00:09:02
Speaker
and we had a weekly membership of five books. So then I would drop it because we're not allowed to move out of the house so freely. So to go to the library was a very good excuse. We taught off to the library, changed our five books, finished it in three or four days time, both of us. But since we were such good customers and we were so close to the house,
00:09:30
Speaker
Michael was a librarian there. He would let us change our books every four or fifth day instead of waiting for the mandatory week. OK. OK. Yes. OK. So this let the astrologer and my father decide that since I was so argumentative, I should try and try for law. OK. Yeah. So I enrolled for law classes. Then I said that I have to show my father that I can do something.
00:09:59
Speaker
So we had a very dear friend, my sister's friend Aisha. She used to work downstairs below this flat in an airline called the Scandinavian Airlines. Yes, SAS. Yeah, SAS.
Diverse Work Experiences
00:10:17
Speaker
So I told her, I said, I want to take up something. She said, take up anything. Doesn't matter. Don't go for the.
00:10:24
Speaker
She was quite a mentor for me. We looked at these ads and I said, I'm not qualified for anything. And the one thing that I'm qualified for, I don't want to do it. So I found a job as a receptionist on telephone operator. So I told Aisha, but I don't know how to operate the telephone.
00:10:46
Speaker
So she said, doesn't matter. You come down to my office and I'll ask the girl to please. And then she told me there are two types of boards. One is cordless. One is with cords and one is with levers. OK. You go for this interview. You don't believe a system. And if they ask you which board have you got experience in, whatever they have, you say, I don't have experience in that. I have it in the other. So the whole career is founded on a lie.
00:11:19
Speaker
And for a person who hates telling lies, who sticks by the truth so much. So they asked me, can you operate the board? I said, what board do you have? He said, we have the port board. I said, no, I can learn it. I have practiced unbelievable. They gave me the job. First of all, they couldn't believe that the person from my kind of family would want to come out at first.
00:11:46
Speaker
those were different days. Of course, of course. Yes. So I got with them and that was I think I turned 21 on 16 and I started work on the 25th of January. Wow. 1965. So I came home and told my dad I've got a job and I'm going to pay you back everything you've spent on me. So he laughed. Yeah. And then I refused to take any money from him. I wanted to pay him away.
00:12:17
Speaker
on this wonderful, marvelous, huge salary of 585. 585. 585 rupees. You should have seen me in those days. I had 24 pairs of sandals matching every outfit, because the Chinese should say they can make one. You were in Calcutta, right? I was in Calcutta also. Yeah, the Chinese shoemakers. Yeah, yeah. So different colored sandals.
00:12:47
Speaker
And they hired me. I went for the interview in the sari, but then I switched to some welcome. Yeah. Because I still couldn't manage the sari. This is a British company called India foils. India foils. Yes. Okay. Yeah. With its main office in UK called the Nestor foils. And I was the baby of the organization. I was there for two and a half years. Then I switched to Bank of America.
00:13:16
Speaker
in Bank of America was there four years. I asked for a transfer to Delhi when my father had a construction job. Okay. He was a civil engineering contractor for construction electrification. Okay. Yeah, he got a job in Delhi and he was there for six, eight months and I told my people in
00:13:48
Speaker
I want to be transferred to Delhi. So, they transferred me to Delhi. Unfortunately, six weeks later, his contact was over and he came. Anyway, I took up in one of those, what do you call it, Bursati's? Yes. Yes. In defense colony. Yes. And teamed up with another friend.
00:14:15
Speaker
and from defense colony we move to what is that army quarters. Princess Park. Where all the army quarters are there. Punjabi Park. Is that Punjabi Park? All right. I'm not sure. I'm not. No, next to that market. Anyway, it will come to me. Okay. So there was with Colonel Sen and his wife, Franny.
00:14:43
Speaker
Okay, sit there for three months. And I gave up that job after some time and I was looking around for another job. And of course, we have to go to the post office to make phone calls. No cell phones, and letters and then my father told me to come home. He didn't know I had quit my job. While I was looking for a job, I found another job. In the meantime,
00:15:12
Speaker
My dear friend Roman called up my office to talk to me and they said that she's quit. So she whispered in my sister's ear, you know, she's quit her job. So we don't know what she's doing. So she told father, father wrote me a letter saying, you better come home, don't force me to come and get you.
00:15:42
Speaker
So I said, okay, that would be quite, you know, inglorious. Yeah. Right. Back my bags and I lie in Calcutta. And who should greet me at the station is Roma Hira. She was very close to my sister at that time. My sister was a beautician. She was running this huge clinic called Mademoiselle in Calcutta. And Roma used to have around it.
00:16:11
Speaker
I had met her because when I was in Bangkok, she, I had a posture to government on our canteen. So let's take a second to talk about Roma here, because that's something that you and I have so much in common.
Friendship with Roma
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah. Well, this, this segment is nothing but Roma. Yeah. And I got off the train and I saw her, I said, why the hell did you tell
00:16:40
Speaker
So she was quite bashful and taken aback. She said, well, I thought that, you know, for the sake of the family, they should know. So I said, okay, anyway, I came home, then I, Roma and I hung around in my sister's.
00:17:00
Speaker
She had a swimming section, a hairdressing section, a facial section, a sauna section. It was huge. It was a three bedroom flat which was converted. One of its kind in Asia at that time. Amazing. Yeah. So we hung around over there and my sister worked and Omar and I just lounged around. Okay, Romi, give me your pedicure. She was good at it. Okay. That's for the heck of it.
00:17:27
Speaker
then I had a lot of blackheads, so I was the guinea pig for everything.
00:17:33
Speaker
And Rova and I started hanging around and then suddenly my sister said, you know, hey, excuse me, I'm there too. What I used to do after the movies, you're off to lunch, you know, all during the time. She used to get to work at eight in the morning and come back after six to just cross the street. The days we made a program, one of us was jumped off to go and see a movie. We'd have lunch in Skyrim.
00:18:02
Speaker
And then we'd come home at tea time and find that she's already home. And then I also discovered that Roma was literally living in our house. She just went to sleep. First month or so I watched this and I asked my sister, I said, what's happening with this girl? Oh, she's got a terrible time with her mother. She's not quite normal. And so she spends the day with us.
00:18:30
Speaker
because first couple of weeks I saw she came for lunch, then she came for tea with Sadar, then in the evening she came back for dinner, you know, what was happening? Once I got used to it, I was free and she was free. So for six months we loitered all over Calcutta. Mrs. Birla came one day and offered me this job in Birla building. And then Roma and I started hanging out. Skyru was our favourite.
00:18:59
Speaker
And she was, I think at that point, 80 kilos only. And very light on her feet. And she loved shopping, shopping in the same vegetable food and non-red. She'd pick up a teller and go off to the market every morning, which I found fascinating. She had never been to the market.
00:19:27
Speaker
I can just imagine Roma doing it. For all those who are listening in and all the viewers, Roma Hira was a dear, dear friend and an Aurovillean. And many of you know Roma's Kitchen. That was one of the institutions that was in Auroville. And Roma passed, when was it? About a year, year back, a little over a year.
00:19:52
Speaker
the 25th of April. Yeah, yeah, 2020. And she's something that someone who's very dear. And if this conversation is also becomes a tribute to Roma, so be it because for both Rita and me, Rita much more because Rita has, you know, so much of her life at Roma. Actually, I'm totally bereft with her gone. I don't know what to do with myself.
00:20:20
Speaker
really sort of put myself out and say, no, no, I must do this. But it's not the same without Roma. Going to the market, jaunting off to the market market. Then I started working for the builders. We were setting up their offices, building 16 storey building. I would go and collect samples and Roma would help me and then she would come into my office and put all this and every time
00:20:49
Speaker
We went out together. People would recognize me because Roma was with me. They'd seen this fat person. I said to me, I'm dressed in trousers and t-shirt. They shouldn't be able to recognize me. It's because of you. Why don't you lose big? She used to tell me you should be grateful. I'm not slim because then nobody will look at you.
00:21:16
Speaker
That's Roma. That's Roma. Every time I told her, slim down, slim down, she said, no, no, I'm far too beautiful. If I become slim, nobody's going to give you any pata. I said, oh, so you're staying fat for my stay. And then decided we had, I don't know if you ever met him, Malik. No, I've heard so much about him, but I've never met him, no.
00:21:43
Speaker
Roma was friendly with his niece in Akshay. Okay. And she met him. He was working with, I think, Lipton's. Okay. No, ITC, or whatever, one of these, you know, companies. Was it Unilever? Was it Unilever? Hindustan Lever, yes. Hindustan Lever, yes. Yes, yes. He quit at the age of 52 or 53 to go to Auroville.
00:22:11
Speaker
So he used to come and go and come and go. And we used to meet him and run around, you know, wherever he was. He usually used to come to for fundraising, or will an ashram or at loggerheads and all of it had no money. So that was his job. Then he persuaded Roma to go live in Oregon. I made several trips with Roma.
00:22:41
Speaker
And she met up with Deepi in her room. I had gone to, in between I'd gone to Europe and America for about four months. She used to write to me that she found this beautiful place. And when I come back, I must go. I came back after four months, joined work. I'd taken special leave with that.
00:23:03
Speaker
At 15 days later, she thinks these tickets and says we are going to Auroville. I don't have the face to ask for these. Anyway, asked, but Mr. Birla was very kind. So he gave me these and then we went to Auroville and used to live in Pondicherry. Auroville had two or three houses over there. How was Auroville at that time, Rita?
00:23:30
Speaker
Auroville was, I mean, would be what? Physical space and people. Auroville was absolutely barren. They planted a lot of trees. A lot of people, there were some community, aspiration was one community. And then Auroville, Pashikapur had one more house, which was like, you know, when you go to buy a house and they have one flat setter, to show you how it looks.
00:23:59
Speaker
Yes. Everybody used to go there to see, okay, this, they had no electricity. They had water. They had no, of course, TV and telephone were out of the question. And they had certain things called huts. And some of these huts were on a tree top. The key tuts? Were the key tuts? Yeah, Deepthi and Arjun, no, Arjun came much later. Deepthi and her family were there, unfortunately.
00:24:31
Speaker
So we used to stay in this guest house, Krishnaji, and move around. Then finally, Roma decided to shift there. The craziest thing is that Mavaji told her that you'll never shift because Rita will not let you shift because of your attachment.
00:24:55
Speaker
So I told him, I said, it's not so. It's not that I'm holding her back. She has to take a decision. She has to decide whether she wants to leave the city, leave the flag, go and make her home over there. It's up to her, because I'm always going to be there. So we decided that I will stay back, look after her flag, and she would go. And she started working in aspiration for 400
00:25:26
Speaker
rupees. What do you call it then? Maintenance. Maintenance. And her cigarette expenses were 800 rupees. Yeah. So I said, Sata, what are you going to do? No, no, I have to do this. Then she's to cook for the community. Yeah. Then she started in puttles.
00:25:55
Speaker
she started this service of giving food, catering. People would come and collect the food and go. She had a marvelous time. A marvelous time.
Roma's Influence and Generosity
00:26:09
Speaker
And of course, every time I visited, in my 10 days trip, four days would be such where she's sitting and crying.
00:26:20
Speaker
What the hell is the matter? Look at them. Look at these babies. They hardly get anything to eat. I'm going to cook mutton and rice for them. I said, oh, who's stopping you? Five pages of mutton and rice made for all the immunity but just eat. She had such a soft taste. And she moved around from aspiration to somewhere else.
00:26:49
Speaker
We stayed in Nami's house. Then in between I became diabetic. We had to carry my insulin. First time I went there, she had to tell us that we were staying with us. We have stayed in all the house. Turn by turn.
00:27:19
Speaker
And then when I became insulin dependent, she used to give me my insulin shots till my sister went to the UK and got what he called insulin gun, which is nothing stupid little contraption that the syringe loaded over there. And instead of poking yourself, you just shot the aluminium thing. Because most people don't have the courage to poke themselves. Correct.
00:27:46
Speaker
So I was going around with this and one evening I was at some party with the other and I needed to take my evening shot. I went to the toilet and took my gun and was trying to shoot myself full of insulin. When the bloody thing blew out. Oh my God. Oh my God. So fortunately, the syringe didn't break. I picked it up and I said, I'm fed up with this son nonsense. I picked up this thing and poked myself. And that's the end of that gun.
00:28:17
Speaker
After that, every time Nova used to get on my dive, you don't do this, don't eat this, take your medicine, take your shot, walk, you know, she was like a success. One day I told her, I said, this is my diabetes, I will manage with it, you don't have to worry. Then of course, she moved to Ghana. And she worked with me, I also moved to Gandhi. Yes, yes.
00:28:46
Speaker
She left in 88 and in 92 I was visiting her. If Kapoor was on his motorcycle, we were visiting a Sunana, Nini, Pandey. And he said, Noma, where is that trend of yours you keep talking about? Let's get a year I want a person in my factory.
00:29:07
Speaker
This is Dilip Kapoor of height design, right? That's right. So he told him, here she is, she's sitting right behind me. So he said, would you be interested in shifting? I said, yeah, why not? And then he came to see me in Danna and talked about his factory. I said, listen, I have no idea what his leather or the leather thought is. All I can give you is integrity. You see, that's all I want because there were a lot of tests and difficult moments.
00:29:37
Speaker
So, lo and behold, I shifted to Pondicherry. Got a beautiful duplicate house on Romay, Roll and Roll. Yeah, and Roma used to go to the market and get all my non-red stuff in different portions. This is for one person, this is for four persons. This is if you have guests and stock up my freezer and push out every day at about 10 o'clock at night. But she was working with
00:30:06
Speaker
answers the orville answers the orville at that time. Okay. Okay. No, it was not maroma. It was also there. She was working there. She'd come over in the evening. We'd have dinner together. Go to Sunday market. Did you know of a thing called Sunday market? No, I didn't know. I didn't know. Okay. Nerus free. You used to have a Sunday market every Sunday morning.
00:30:33
Speaker
the whole of Auroville and youngsters would end up over there, cheap materials, and then t-shirts and shorts, all kinds of stuff, sequined and everything all the youngsters wanted. So every Sunday we go and buy. And then every trip I came to Calcutta, I've got gifts, sequined t-shirts, sequined dresses,
00:31:02
Speaker
parallels and shirts for the boys and all that. That was one of our major highlights. Roma and I used to walk, huh? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. I think of her when she was mobilized. I said to myself, those were really the days. Yeah. Yeah. It was before her body caught up with her, right? Yeah. And her body caught up last of the years.
00:31:31
Speaker
And I was working with Dilip and then he made a proposal to Romant come and do the marketing, domestic marketing. So she joined over there. She used to travel, setting up new shops all over India. And then of course, there was a demand for the material bags and I was the government manager.
00:31:57
Speaker
And I would tell them, sorry, I can't give you. And then you would have asked them to sit there and tell everybody, see their best friends. See how they're fighting? Their best friends. What's wrong with you? No, he says, I'd love to see you fighting. This fighting thing, again, quite the thing. Jan used to have a house opposite her.
00:32:26
Speaker
No, no, no, I haven't met her. So she was very close to Roma. There was only one room, then I moved to Pondi. Roma had only one room about one kitchen with a small river. Then of course, the render was extended. Jan would ring up. By then, telephones had come. Okay. Yeah. TV had also been used all day. Jan would ring up.
00:32:56
Speaker
Have you fought yet?
00:33:00
Speaker
I guess nothing makes a chemistry more evident than a fight, you know, where the dynamics of the fight are very different if there exists a great chemistry. So yeah. I have no idea. Even later on, even number three would bring up every morning. Have you felt about it, darling? I said, no, not yet. It's only the third day. Yeah, but usually three years is the limit. What is the fight about? Just argue.
00:33:29
Speaker
I used to nag her. She used to tell me to butt out. And if I said, okay, I'm not coming to the kitchen. Nothing is for me to do. Then go to Pondicherry. I'll go to the kitchen. But if I said, okay, I'm going to Pondi. So she said, okay, I'll hire you to Pondi. Within one hour, where are you? What are you doing? What have you shown?
00:33:59
Speaker
How much money have you spent? Are you coming back or not? Yeah, yeah, I'm coming back. Who have you invited to lunch? Have you invited anybody? Because that was the only place I could meet everybody. Right. Like lunch, invite them to dinner. And the whole pattern went on and on. Rita, while we're talking so much about this, do you have Roma's picture somewhere? Yeah. Can you bring it in?
00:34:29
Speaker
all over my house. Can you just bring it and I'll. And there she is, there's Roma. Looking so beautiful. A lovely smile, lovely smile, lovely smile. Yeah. Normally when she used to travel, she used to travel with mother's picture, put it on the bedside. When I travel, most probably I'm going to have to carry Roma's picture.
00:34:59
Speaker
So she's become synonymous with mother for me. So in the picture, I wish her good morning, Fatah. How's the day going to be? And at times I say, why don't you call me? She used to call so often. There are times, I think you guys used to talk at least 10 times a day. Five times, so it was easy. Morning before I went to work.
00:35:29
Speaker
then at lunchtime, then when she returned from Maruma and then before going to the kitchen and coming back from the kitchen. Did I tell you about the time she, she's not almost, she saved my life. No, tell me about that. Well, one day a friend had visited from
00:35:59
Speaker
the States and we met up for coffee in flurries. My sister, Shakti and I, and I had a, I'm very fond of chocolate brownies. So I had a brownie with my coffee. And then when we finished the evening, I told my sister, I don't want to eat too much for dinner because my sugar is high. So she says, Oh no, you only had a brownie. I said, even so,
00:36:28
Speaker
So I took a shot and I didn't eat enough. So I went home. I used to stay in Roma's apartment in those days. So I went over there and as was normal Roma called from the kitchen and she found me sounding very strange.
00:36:52
Speaker
So she said, why are you sounding like that? I said, no, why? So suspecting that something was wrong, she rang up my family. So she kept me talking on the phone. And in the meanwhile made a call to the family that somebody should go across. And knowing the flag, you know, it has a very heavy iron bar.
00:37:20
Speaker
So she kept telling me, open the door. And by then, I think I was, Ms. Sugar was dropping, telling her in a sing-song voice, open the door. Why should I open the door? She said, just go and open the door. Because she knew they couldn't break in the door with that iron door.
00:37:49
Speaker
Subsequently, I don't know what happened because I must have passed out. My brother, my nephew, my bhavi poor thing, she had a bad knee. She barely walked. She dragged herself from Stephen Court to Middleton Road. I believe they picked me up, loaded in the car, took me to Bellevue. The next thing I know is that I hear my gynecologist Raja Lakshmi saying,
00:38:16
Speaker
Oh, she's coming around and I opened my eyes. I see her. I see my sister in her 90 almost distraught. What happened? What am I doing here? They brought you in with your sugar was only 20. Oh my God. Oh my God. If Roma hadn't. Yeah, speak that up. Yeah.
00:38:39
Speaker
up and traveled all the way to Ghana and made sure that I was talking and made sure obviously she got to me, I undid the door for them. But now this is a regular joke with Deepi Arjun, Roma and me. Arjun will come and say, let's talk about open the door.
00:39:09
Speaker
She took such good care of me without my realising. Sometimes at one time we didn't have a car and I was stuck a couple of times in the office because of heavy rain. Any difficulty or just pick up the phone with me asked Oma.
00:39:30
Speaker
Probably I can't get home, there's no taxis available, I can't get out. Okay, I'm coming. She can walk into a cab, I don't know how. Get over there, take me out. Amazing, amazing. I think she used to do, and then she had this eye for clothes also. Although she always wore this long sleeve shirt, it became short sleeves later on. Suddenly I'll find, she'll say, I saw a very beautiful sari.
00:39:59
Speaker
She said, I picked it up for you. And invariably it would be the most gorgeous thing I've ever worn. So she'd be sorry for me. And any time I got dressed, I said, okay, but this too. Ironing is not done properly. Then she said, make it off and iron it. Particularly about ironing. Amazing, amazing. And nowadays in the last four, five years,
00:40:28
Speaker
all her suits were sent for ironing and then the folds. I knew how particular she was. I was the dominant iron out all the folds from trousers and shorts and hanging it up in this doeroma. Oh, there's a little bit of crease over there and this is okay. I'm taking it out. That's also quite amazing. I was quite mean to her. I get on her case about losing weight.
00:40:53
Speaker
And now I realize how difficult it was to move, you know. A lot of people indulged her. They saw how many would say, no, no, Roma, don't get up. I'll get this for you. I would sit there. I said, no, I'm not getting up. You get up and go to the dining table and get it. It looks so sad. Focus, manualize, please, please. Finally, I'd give in and go. But I realized that that was quite mean.
00:41:22
Speaker
I think that was your attempt to try to get her to move normally. I said, only five minutes, babe. Get up five minutes. Yeah, I'll promise you. Promise you never said no to me. None from me. Then I'll get on the phone and say, have you put on no weight? No, I haven't. I said, get on the weight, weighing machine. No, no, I only do that on Monday morning. I said, OK, you do it tomorrow morning for me. I was so obsessed with her weight.
00:41:51
Speaker
That's what killed her. And last trip she made over here, we had to take her to the court for her plan. To get a proper wheelchair.
00:42:08
Speaker
You know, she needed a big little bit. And who was going to push her? And then when we came back, I told her, I said, Romi, next time you come, you have to get somebody with you. Earlier, I used to hire her. We didn't need that much. By lunchtime, we would release them because I'd be there home by five o'clock. And in any case, she would sleep.
00:42:35
Speaker
But those remarks really bothered me sometimes, telling her next time you finally bring somebody else. That was sad. But she loved that kitchen. And Laura and what's his name? Paul, right? Paul. They gave her a very hard time when she decided to take on the kitchen. Felt that her attention would go away.
00:43:02
Speaker
But she managed both beautifully for a long time. Can you imagine? How did she do that? That body working 14 hours a day is amazing. No, something else would carry her return. That was so obvious. Her spirit was just so amazing. I could go on talking with you about this, but we've really done a lot of on time.
00:43:31
Speaker
So let me bring it back to you a little bit as well, Rita. You worked for many years in the Birla schools, right? And director of their schools for a long time,
Commitment to Birla Schools
00:43:41
Speaker
am I correct? I was secretary general of the trust that ran the schools. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:49
Speaker
25 years, 25 years. That's a long time. And what do you think is your, I believe each person, each individual has something unique to offer the world. It's a gift we all have uniquely like Roma did. What do you think yours is and what do you think Roma's was? Well, Roma's was always trying to
00:44:12
Speaker
help people. Actually, she had a very interesting life before she went for punishment with the parents and her sister and all. I don't know if she ever told you that. She told me some.
00:44:25
Speaker
So that was tough and she loved her smoking, she loved her drinking, she loved her food. I remember raising many glasses of single malt with her, even when she wasn't well, at least a glass of little bit of, can we do that? Loved all the good things in life.
00:44:46
Speaker
and even whatever outfits were towards the end, the trousers and all had to be best quality, had to be best tailored to stitches. The embroidery donut thing has to be done just so. Food has to be made just so, you know, and then her father had an import license for wines and drinks. As a child, she used to take those little display bottles and drink, stuff in water, tea water.
00:45:16
Speaker
She had a taste for alcohol from childhood. And I didn't know what was a single malt. I would bring her a whiskey and she would say, you should have bought a single malt. I said, please explain to me what it is. You give me a glass of whiskey and I say, oh, it's bitter. I have no palate for it. Fines and drinks and food and pastries and cakes.
Values of Integrity and Honesty
00:45:43
Speaker
Yeah, the works, the works.
00:45:46
Speaker
We love the good life. When we watch movies on video, they first tell me, is this a poor man's movie? I don't want to watch it. I have not enough of being poor. I want to watch a movie of a rich, comfortable family.
00:46:08
Speaker
So amazing. And the thing is that she shared it. It gave her a lot of joy. Very generous. Incredibly generous. With her time, her attention, her... It was just amazing. And I was very rigid in the sense, if you said even a white lie, I would get on her case. And sometimes if she would borrow money,
00:46:37
Speaker
I would get on a case. I said, this is not right. I was very rigid. That was my upbringing on something apart from my upbringing. I think every individual person comes with a personality trait that I didn't want any kind of fraud or any kind of taking money, borrowing money. I detested. Yeah. There would be times when I'll find that she borrowed money from someone and we'd have a huge fight. Why do you borrow money?
00:47:05
Speaker
but I'm going to give it. It was just because I didn't have it. No, you're not to do it. This kind of little things. So, and I think somewhere she took it to heart because obviously she didn't borrow it for the thrill of it, obviously had the difficulty. But when she went to Auroville, if I told her it's okay, you can debit this to the company, you know, just
00:47:30
Speaker
as a Jew, she said, no, I'll never do that. She just turned a new leaf and her integrity was just too much. And her generosity, her generosity is legendary in Ottawa. It's the stuff of Oroville legends, I feel. Like I was talking to Arjun the other day,
00:48:01
Speaker
They used to tell me, is she making money? They were very curious. She said she's not making money. How can you run a restaurant and not make money? Which is true.
00:48:12
Speaker
I said, well, how can you run a restaurant and not take money? I said, show me your balance sheet. Show me your vaccine. Show me this. Show me that. And then I would make her suggestions like maybe you could raise the prices. Maybe you could reduce the portions. You know, all kinds of tips. She says, I'm not here to make money. I'm here to offer
00:48:38
Speaker
service. Anybody falls sick and horrible, she's sending them food, sending them soups, sending them bras, anybody. And if it was a child, then of course, talking about Roma's attachment to children and how soft she was. When they're coming from on the cherry, she on her motorcycle, she knocked the child down.
00:49:04
Speaker
You know, children on that road, they're all the time running up and down. So she did this, this, this finally, child got hit. Child fell down and started crying and Roma's crying also. And this whole spectacle, Roma's crying, the child is crying, and then she's giving money to the child's parents to take the child to the hospital then.
00:49:27
Speaker
for a month and a half, coming and going, she's meeting this child, giving them money, giving them medication, giving them food. I said, Roma, you're mad. No, it is over. It's not required anymore. They're just making use of it. But that's how she works. And so much did for so much before, so much, my God. Always, always. Sam was a little boy. Yeah.
00:49:58
Speaker
She put him to school over here. A friend of ours used to run a Montessori house. She put him over there. Then she had an afternoon school. So put him through school. Then he worked around over here. He also learned the passion for cooking. Then came and worked with her. Yes, of course. I mean, he was very good. He was a great cook. Very good. Very good.
00:50:26
Speaker
Trained by Roma. And what about Sriram? He had his accident. And she, Nick called her and said that, I'm sorry, I've busted your motorcycle, had an accident. She wasn't worried about her motorcycle. She rushed over there, got him in hospital every day, morning, noon, and night. He didn't let his life for her.
00:50:53
Speaker
Because that's the kind of loyalty she would bring out in people, because she was so genuine in the way that she reached out to them. As you say, we could talk forever. We could talk forever. I know. So tell me, Rita, what about you? What is it that you bring? I mean, you talk so much about Roma, and it's such an integral part of your life. But you as an individual, what do you think you
00:51:23
Speaker
you basically integrity, discipline, passion for the job at hand, everything. I mean, if something has to be done, it has to be done right with full energy. So in my entire career, that is the main thing that all through my life, I understand to tell lies, everything has to be, you know, above board, above board.
00:51:54
Speaker
I can't deny the workers their rights. That's why they still miss me. When they don't get what they want, they ring me up. Then I feel a sense of regret. Why did I be? I should have seen this through. I should have seen that this fellow got confirmed. Then I tell myself, there's no end to that. Everybody's hired by me. Everybody's looked after by me.
00:52:21
Speaker
Some of them are being thrown out for some reason. They're all competent and never hired anybody to edit the job. Certain things, because of the pandemic, they're not giving them their rights. So they come to me, if it was you, if this would have never happened. I said, but when I left, I told you all that change is the only constant.
00:52:46
Speaker
So expect the change, embrace the change. You have my sympathies. If there's anything I can do, I will do. But you have to learn to work and live without me. So would that be a message that you would give out to youngsters who like starting out now, Rita, or in the middle of their careers and life and looking at the beautiful checkered, incredible life you've lived, you and Roma, what would you tell them? What would you say?
00:53:16
Speaker
advise and if you don't like the word advise, what's your input to?
Life Philosophy and Reflections
00:53:20
Speaker
Well, I think they should be very conscious of their actions. Like I've been saying that to my nieces and nephews, that every action has a reaction, has consequences. You must take responsibility for your actions.
00:53:44
Speaker
And if you learn to behave in a responsible manner, then you can choose to deal with the consequences. Otherwise, just doing a job for the sake of the money that it brings you really is not much joy. Absolutely.
00:54:07
Speaker
Absolutely. Is there anything else you'd like to say before we close out this conversation? What can I say? I mean, I don't feel that I've done much in my life. You think my life is incredible. But I think I've just, my mother used to say, why do you give up jobs just when you have established yourself? I once mentioned this to a group then of my father.
00:54:34
Speaker
This is hard. I said, you know, my mother says that I give up. She said, that's because in your life you have come here to build. I like to build something and then move away without sitting and resting on my laurel. Wow. I think that's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And that has played out for you. You see that that happens. Always. Every job they require to build something.
00:55:04
Speaker
you know, built it, then I moved on, built it, moved on. And without any regrets, you know, a lot of people feel that, oh, I have built this and I deserve to be here and I should be here and reap the fruits of my labor. To me, no. I think that way, even though I've not read the Gita or any of these scriptures, I believe that you should not look for the fruits.
00:55:33
Speaker
Do your karma, maintain your dharma. And it sounds very pompous, but that's how it worked out for me. It doesn't sound pompous at all, because I hardly ever hear you allude to any of this. It's just the present moment, living it, and that's what you embody. And I think that is so beautiful.
00:55:55
Speaker
Thank you. And so free, because you've lived your life like a free spirit.
Closing Reflections
00:56:00
Speaker
You've decided your course. And I think that is so beautiful. Thank you so much, Rita, for spending this time with me and for us to sit and talk about, and for me to listen to more about Roma, because like you, I really miss her. So yeah.
00:56:18
Speaker
you you have to come yes absolutely yes as i said we definitely that's very much on my mind that's a trip i have to make to come and spend some time with you in kolkata again kolkata or pondicherry wherever yeah the design takes us yes yeah absolutely she was so fond of you and i over yeah yeah so happy to see your face chiba makes me feel
00:56:48
Speaker
Like I'm looking at Roma at the background. Roma sitting somewhere. She is, no? She is right through this, right through this. Absolutely. Yeah. Thank you so much, Rita. It's been a pleasure. Pleasure, mine. Pleasure is mine. Thank you and take care. Thank you for your time and attention and for being a part of Soul Brews with Shiva. Until next week,
00:57:17
Speaker
Keep the coffee swirling.