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Ep 41 - Sheba and Rajaram Sankaran share a coffee
90 Plays3 years ago
Presenting a soul conversation over coffee with Rajaram Sankaran, Group CEO & Director on Board at Abacus Pharma (Africa). More about him is on his Linkedin.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:02
Speaker
I'm delighted to have you in the podcast where all stories are welcome and the masks come off. Hi, Raja. Hi, Shiva. Great to see you. It's good to see you too. It's a pleasure to have you on Coffee and Soul and welcome to Soul Brews with Shiva. I'm so delighted to be hosting you. Thank you. It's my pleasure and my honor. Thank you very much,
Cultural and Geographic Background
00:00:29
Speaker
Raja.
00:00:29
Speaker
You have your cup of whatever you'd like to drink with you. It's, you know, spice tea. Yeah. But outside home, you know, I usually take tea. So yeah, this is a nice local chain. So let's have a look at the local chain you're holding up. It's CJ's is it? Yeah.
00:00:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's called Jawa's used to be the name, then they've changed it to CJ's, you know, it's a very, very nice chains of chain of, you know, cafes in Kampala. Which is where you're based right now, right? That's right. I'm in Kampala, Uganda. Yeah. This is in East Africa.
00:01:08
Speaker
Normally people don't, I mean, only people of the earlier generation know East Africa, but it used to be a block. They used to play in World Cup cricket as a block, but now it is Uganda, part of the Eastern part of Africa. Wonderful. So we're just going to raise a chair and I'm going to pour myself a cup of coffee. You already have your iced tea.
00:01:34
Speaker
Great to have you here, Raja. Cheers to life and long associations. To you and to the association. Cheers. Yes. So Raja, if I was to just ask you to just relax and just kind of sit back and relax and in this beautiful green surroundings, et cetera, just sit back and just close your eyes for a second.
00:02:00
Speaker
share with us some of the images that come to your mind, if anything. Taste, smell, any feeling.
00:02:10
Speaker
I mean, there's always, you showed me coffee, so I get coffee for sure. In terms of the images, there's a lot of greenery around. And this is my home garden. It's all green and nice. I mean, for change today, there's a lot of nice breeze blowing in. I can see that. What does it do to you? What does this do for you? Greenery. I think coming from after about more than a decade and
00:02:40
Speaker
Mumbai, right, you know, come to surroundings like this, where you have greenery, we had a choice to go for an apartment or a place like this, and we said, no, we'll go for this because when you have that opportunity, you know, why didn't we go for it? And secondly, this also gives a lot of space for Ishaan to, you know, kind of cycle around, run around. Yeah, yeah.
00:03:04
Speaker
It's a good place to be in. And this is the typical old Kampala house kind of a thing. It's got its own charm. And this is the kind of house that I've grown up with. In my younger days, where we used to have these kind of trees and all which later vanished in the concrete jungle.
Early Life and Education
00:03:23
Speaker
So growing up for you was in Chennai? No, in fact, I grew up in Andhra. I was born in deep south Tamil Nadu. My dad worked most in, by the time at least I was born. He was in pharmaceutical sales as well. Rajan the family, Raja? In the DNA. Go ahead, go ahead. So I grew up in
00:03:47
Speaker
places like Vijayavada very early years but mostly I remember Guntur which is also in south coastline today.
00:03:55
Speaker
in a very famous for tobacco, cotton, chilies, and education. So it used to be central education. So yeah, grew up there, went to some very, very good school there. And a very famous college called Hindu College, which was part of the freedom struggle. Really? A lot of fighters came from there. Our college used to be a venue for meetings of freedom fighters. Can you imagine? Wow.
00:04:22
Speaker
I mean, those portals of the college and our history, again, great principal, who was very, very accomplished, a daw in of celebrate literature, and also a great spiritualist and bodybuilder. Oh, really? Yeah. Amazing. Dr. Kullipati is, in fact, renounced the world and is now heading a mutt. Seriously? Oh, that's so interesting. Whereabouts is he?
00:04:49
Speaker
He is in a place called Kutralam in Tamil Nadu. He is the head of a mutt called a Maunaswami mutt. I think he is one of the great people that I have had the opportunity to be with or see or know Congress or interact with very close quarters. He was accomplished physically. He was a person who used to do
00:05:14
Speaker
demonstration of breaking away from chains, how do you style, lift weights, tall, gigantic personality.
00:05:23
Speaker
He represented Telugu in the World Conference of Languages. He was an Ashtav Danyasan. He can impromptu, build a poem. If eight people throw things at him, he can do that. Amazing. I mean, great, great person. So would you say that this was a person who had a big influence in your life, Raja?
Influences and Inspirations
00:05:43
Speaker
I think in terms of influence in my life, Shiba, I think my first big influence
00:05:49
Speaker
is my dad, he's my hero. A second person obviously is, when I used to, very early in life I read, I mean, one of the one of dad's gifts was also the complete works of Swami Vivekananda, an addiction that I remember, which you know, one of his colleagues gave to me specifically. So now and that was a great influence. And of course, you know, Dr. Kulipathi great influence and another in professional life, I had the opportunity to work with another
00:06:17
Speaker
Doan called Dr. Tarun Gupta, who was a golden caller in the pharmaceutical industry. Incidentally, he had worked with my father as well. Amazing. I remember you telling me about the complete works of, in our conversations together, where you told me about the complete works of Iwekan and how much that influenced you. I think somebody who is supposedly a spiritual or religious leader
00:06:46
Speaker
soft talks you know so much of practical common sense and so inspiring and breaking myths and you know telling all the right things inspiring I think phenomenon I though I've never I mean we were we were apart in time it's almost like he's telling you so these were some great influences who really shaped my thinking and
00:07:13
Speaker
My development obviously, but also it surcharges you with a lot of passion and energy. Absolutely. So as you reflect on your life and what are some of your turning points? What are some of the things, some of your highs and lows? What's the journey been like?
00:07:30
Speaker
would love to hear more about it, Raja. I mean, I've known you for a bit, but even so, there's so much that has happened since then. And before that also, so that my listeners can also get a sense of
Passion for Reading and Quizzing
00:07:41
Speaker
who you are. I was a very shy kind of a child.
00:07:48
Speaker
know grew up drinking filter coffee and reading the Hindu every morning but right from you know the beginning I had a great love of I was very inquisitive so whether it is the sports page or you know the political affairs page you know I mean many of my classmates used to read the sports page religiously I just read that also used to turn the world around and see the
00:08:12
Speaker
the main page as well, you know, and go to the TVI's read and used to read. And somewhere I think, you know, growing in the kind of environment I was and also my own motivation, I started with, you know, what I still believe is a great body of literature called Amachitrakatha.
00:08:34
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean the amount of culture or no mythology and folklore that I learned or the amount I could discover about
00:08:44
Speaker
the greatness and the beauty of India and the wisdom, like the Panchtandrakathas and all that is phenomenal. I used to have my next door neighborhood that uncle used to run a lending library. So I used to literally go in summer holidays, sit there and read book after book after book, comic after comic and twinkle and all that. Then slowly graduated into reading books. So I think the reading language, I mean, I'm very inquisitive.
00:09:12
Speaker
If I come across a new word, in those days there was no Google, there was no mobile. You had to go, you know, flip the pages of a dictionary, go find it. And I miss that sometimes, you know, it's now so easy, but then I do, I used to, you know, kind of try to use that at times, you know, sounding quite funny, either in written or no. And so I didn't know that. And then slowly I started appreciating
00:09:38
Speaker
other languages. So I mean, I come from a multilingual family. So I think the appreciation of language for me kind of grew. I think I also learned that it's a great
00:09:49
Speaker
way of understanding culture and appreciating the differences and the unifying aspects of people. I also had to grow up with being seen as a Tamilian in Andhra, where I was studying, Telu in Tamil Nadu, where my books were in those days. It was fun. It used to be a little dichotomous.
00:10:13
Speaker
But I think that also spurred in me the thing to appreciate differences as well as find the unifying threads. And as I started growing, I think one other turning point for me was, again, back in school. For some reason, one of my teachers who used to teach us social studies in this language said, go, you should be the captain of the quiz team. And that was the first time I was ever quizzing. And it was the school quiz.
00:10:39
Speaker
And I still remember the first question. And for some reason, I answered that. Because the question was, who is the first education minister of India? And I said, and it passed. And then I was with the fifth team. And I answered it, Dr. Abul Kalamazath. So I think that really kind of gave me an view on that. Yes, yes.
00:11:00
Speaker
And slowly I started quizzing and representing the school in quizzes, you know, in essays, and you know, elocutions, debates, you know, all these literary activities. I was not a much of a sports guy. My sports was chess and Karim. I played badminton, but I was more a, this kind of a guy. So much more cerebral, much more cerebral is what you would say.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yes, somehow that stimulated me a lot. Yes, yes. I was doing, you know, representing the school more than attending classes, you know. I think my school was also a very, very big influence. You know, they gave me that space, you know, to pursue my. Where did you study? In a school called Sri Venkateswar Balapati. Yes, yes. Yes. So, and the founder of the school is also a very, very renowned educationist.
00:11:49
Speaker
Yeah, I went and met her after, you know, I came to the profession and I was an abbot, you know, when I was a BU head, I went and worked in whichever I wanted to, met some of the old folks and went and paid my respects to her. So, so that was one. And during that course, one of the books that I read was also a great influence for me, Alex Ali's Roots, and you won't believe it, it's a nice thick book, but
00:12:12
Speaker
Because I think my nine standard holidays and I, for some reason that book really, you know, connected with me, moved me. I think it's, I don't know how many pages it is, but it's a thick, fat book for sure. I think it was to 500, 600, maybe. I finished it from, you know, from, from the time I, you know, coffee till dinner, I read, you know, so it was moving and so, so fascinating. Somebody connecting to their roots.
00:12:38
Speaker
This is where you are right now, right? The place where a lot of this book was. Yeah. So I think that was another one. And like I said, all these literary activities and other things. So I did reasonably well in studies. I was never the class topper, but I was in the top five or top 10, but it was okay for me because I allowed this part of it more. And probably that also helped me shape my personality.
00:13:03
Speaker
I went to college, I talked to you about my principal who's also a great, great, I think probably in the four years that I quizzed and debated and I also wasn't to, you know, theater and, you know, fine arts, mostly theater, where we did some very nice plays, you know, both English and Telugu, I debated one
00:13:26
Speaker
probably my team and I, we would have, we had about a bunch of four or five people in the college and various activities. And I think in four years, we won about 230, 240 quizzes, you know, competitions across ACR. That's amazing. Yeah. And I had a
00:13:42
Speaker
I never knew that the influence that somebody can have, even at that stage, when I first took up my first job and I was moving to Chennai after college, I finished my college and within,
Career Beginnings and Development
00:13:54
Speaker
I think, May 5th or something, I wrote my results, and May 21st, I started my first job. I went for a walking interview in Chennai, and I was 1 out of 112 selected. Which organization was this? Which one was this first one?
00:14:12
Speaker
So pharmaceuticals, did you always knew that you would go into that industry or was it just? I don't know. For me, growing up, like I said, my father is a big inspiration. I always loved him. He used to explain the nuances of, you know, he was a big fan of, you know, he used to take pride in the fact that sales is a great job. I've heard him speak to, you know, I address doctors conference and all in the medical college and all.
00:14:37
Speaker
So for me, growing up, I knew only one industry. I didn't even know that there's a world beyond that. For me, the government service or pharma industry. So I used to go to the bank and this thing other things used to do some work. In those days, you know, it was never online. I do it physically. My father's travels, I used to go to Wales. But somehow I think, you know, growing up, I only thought of pharmaceutical industry. When I was going for my first job.
00:15:02
Speaker
I don't believe that, you know, I had in what, what do you call in the trains RAC and there was this guy that you are from Hindu college. I said, yeah, you are Raja Ram. I said, yeah.
00:15:13
Speaker
So I don't know whether you know me, but I am from Loyola College, and I always wanted you to win the debate, the best speaker, because last year also, you spoke well. And we were rooting for you this time, and you spoke so well. And he ended up giving the birth to me. And despite my insistence, I was hardly 19 at the time. I know that if you can, and this is what my father used to say, that you can,
00:15:40
Speaker
you know, the way you speak and say things means a lot to people, you know. So that's when, you know, I kind of discovered that, you know, yeah, you gotta be very careful when you say or, you know, do something. You can't really inspire people for good or for bad. So then went and started as a med rep, you know, used to go, you know, from clinic to clinic and then moved up and became a regional manager.
00:16:07
Speaker
At age 21, I was a new manager. Then I was doing very well. In fact, what takes me many years, I was doing well. But then somewhere, I said, OK, no, I need to take a break. I also had to consider, because my dad was retiring at the time, I didn't know how to finish. Luckily, I got a scholarship out of all the B schools that I got an entry from. So I took IIFM because I was getting a merit scholarship, merit coming scholarship.
00:16:37
Speaker
And also it was a very high ratio of teacher students, a lot of international students. So again, a beautiful surrounding like this, a sectoral management course, not necessarily the typical MBA. So I think that was, IIFM again has been a great influence like school and college. I'm in touch with my batch mates, both in school and IIFM, even my college. And then the professional journey kind of took me
00:17:05
Speaker
from one place to another from you know my first job out of campus was in the I.T. and I realized that you know I don't connect to a professional healthcare adopter to come back to healthcare through a consulting firm called then came back and I was doing healthcare consulting. And where did you come back to? Sorry I lost you for a second.
00:17:27
Speaker
It is a company called Frost & Sellers, a firm called Frost & Sellers. It's a consulting firm headquartered in California, a global consulting firm. They are mostly focused on market and growth consulting.
00:17:40
Speaker
help them set up their India practice, then help them set up their emerging technologies practice for healthcare life sciences. Again, I've made some wonderful colleagues out there, still in touch with a lot of them. I think that was also a very good place that I've worked with, then came back to the industry proper from consulting with
00:17:59
Speaker
where I was in an R&D setup, helping to enter the US pharmaceutical market. They were late entrants. But again, working in an R&D center, I was a commercial guy working with the various scientists, understanding the US market sitting in Ahmedabad. It was fun. I think it was great in helping them. And today, I think they've done exceedingly well. When I look back at the numbers,
00:18:27
Speaker
Very nice. Then I had a very short stint with Ranbaxy again in Gugam. The office was there in Gugam, but I was too. So second time in Delhi and then came back to South, you know, I joined AstraZeneca. Oh, really? Today AstraZeneca is very much in the news. Great organization.
00:18:54
Speaker
I think their commitment to, you know, science processes through the five stars. And I also to go to London when, you know, senior colleague of mine, Rehan. I know. I remember Rehan. Yeah. He said, you know, would you like to come and join my leadership team? We are scaling up the business here. This was at Abbott, right?
00:19:18
Speaker
This was rapid, this was nutrition, which at that time, small, small business. I think the Rehan's leadership and, you know, you all scaled it up as a team.
00:19:29
Speaker
about six times in four years, you know, and I had two streams there, you know, my, I set up a function for the first time in Pacific Asia, Africa, and I had never that function, done that function before, or commercial excellence. People used to ask, what is, what is commercial excellence? And I had to tell them what it is.
00:19:48
Speaker
And it was a lot of things. So from there, I took my first P&L role. Again, it was baptism by fire. First year, we grew by 45%, but we didn't hit the numbers and we didn't get the target. That was the only year when I'm not delivered so far in my career. Next year, I think the team was supercharged. We said that we're doing all the right things. Let's stick to the plan.
00:20:14
Speaker
And I think next year was outstanding and we did about 63% growth, 105% of target. Amazing. In retrospect, we ended up, I think we were a team of 170 odd people. So we doubled. In fact, we grew the business 2.4 times in two years. Is that the time that you and I connected?
00:20:35
Speaker
I'm in my next role. In the next role after that, that's right. And I was at the Albert India Limited when I became a professional director. So I suddenly I was managing a business which was three times that size. You know, three business units, business unit heads, three P&L owners reporting into me. So a big role.
00:20:57
Speaker
Also, I was again entering that at the time of a crisis. So for some reason, I think the crisis seemed to be, I'm not saying that I want more crisis, but it seemed to be working well for me. And I say that for a reason, and I'll come to that.
00:21:15
Speaker
There again, we were having a huge price cut and very unprecedented way. The drug price cut of 2013 was the toughest. You had to actually, they said that you can't even keep stock of products on the shelf. You have to take it back and relabel. And again, that was a luxury allowed as a one-time thing. And we had key brands losing 29% price and 17% price. And despite that, we delivered and we delivered well.
00:21:43
Speaker
And in fact, the volume growth, you know, the teams drove was, for example, brand like TheraNom was 23, 24%. That's the brand that is very in my household, about three, four people. So, I mean, that's the brand I knew I would buy, you know, you were looking after that. Yeah, yeah, TheraNom, you know, when we met actually, TheraNom was on my top performing brand. I know what I remember, TheraNom. Lost for 16% on price and these are all very, very
00:22:14
Speaker
I mean, I don't probably, you know, sub one rupee, you know, or something, one rupee at that time. It was about one rupee, if it was about 29% price due to, I don't know, hardly any, very, very economical, but still we had to do that.
00:22:30
Speaker
I think we did a lot of activities, we did, you know, we put, there are some levers which are available to us, some levers which are not available. I think we're matched on distribution, we're matched on customer coverage, then how do you grow the brand? So we did, we put together a strategy brand specific. No, I think the teams executed it so well. I think they were passionate.
00:22:51
Speaker
And at the end of the day, I think we delivered and we delivered. Well, the next year again, it was not like a one time thing. And we were consistent, we delivered in the subsequent year as well. And I got promoted into a strategy and BD role for the entire region for Abbott. The established pharma. India was the biggest single affiliate and also reached by itself. 1.2 billion when I left Abbott.
00:23:20
Speaker
About 800 million business but in the five years it grew to 1.2 billion. That's really inspiring. I was driving, I was not in a P&L job but I was driving strategy, M&A, partnerships, license.
00:23:39
Speaker
I was also doing something called business effectiveness and driving new product introductions. But I mean, we launched about 200 plus SKUs in five years. SKUs in five years, I think, include the R&D productivity. But again, it is fun. I did some very good partnership, renewed some partnership. The last deal that I think I did was acquired a few assets for Abbott, divested. So it's a completely different role from a P&L role. More kind of corporate.
00:24:09
Speaker
also helped a lot to build a very different perspective. What was the perspective? What did you see changing in you? I think the first thing is about timelines, right? When you are in a penal role every month, every quarter, every year, no matter when you are in a
00:24:27
Speaker
when you are in a strategy role, suddenly the time horizon that you're operating is very different. It's not that, you know, the short term priorities are any less important, but you're all, but somebody needs to think about the long term. And I think, you know, that probably grooms you for, you know, more the C-suite kind of rules very well, because you're not thinking month and quarter, but you're also thinking
00:24:52
Speaker
or here. Nobody was thinking, okay, this is the environment. This is where we play in. These are the things that may shape the environment. What can I do as a leader or what can I do as a follow on? What do I want to, what is my overall goal and what do I want to accomplish? What are the resources that I have and what are the resources that I need to add or acquire? I think those are some of the things. So the time or other changes, the way you look at, you know, suddenly you're looking at the larger picture than just to know,
00:25:22
Speaker
what is the immediate goal? Yeah, and you got the organization hat on, right? You're thinking of the organization, you're thinking of much bigger. Yeah, yeah. So this on the other one, you know, you suddenly realize when you do all these, you know, partnerships with your own industry colleagues is again, a very, very interesting perspective in a role as a commercial director, you are
00:25:46
Speaker
you're literally competing against them, you know, it's a scope kind of a thing that say, you know, suddenly here you're looking at
00:25:55
Speaker
Now, how can I actually, you know, look at, you know, you have these trends, and I have these trends, and you know, I have these gaps, and you have these gaps, you know, if we come together, and you know, have a collaboration, all this, that one plus one becomes 11 for both of us, or how was there a win-win, of course, within the realm of, you know, all the competition laws, you know, being on run, thankfully, Parma is such a fragmented industry, you know, so
00:26:21
Speaker
always in India has such a fabulous infrastructure in terms of reach penetration. You know, when somebody even another MNC wants to know has a good asset and you know, good product, drive access, it might be very, very difficult for them to do it by themselves. No, so sure, we come together.
00:26:42
Speaker
And we help you with the access that we have. And when you have those, and you may not have that asset, they have an asset. So suddenly you're thinking in collaboration with somebody, you might compete for something else in the market. That in a case,
00:27:06
Speaker
can you kind of work together on something and thereby bring a very important product which will benefit a lot of patients or even preventative health care choices to people who need it fully. Suddenly you're thinking kind of differently that way as well.
00:27:26
Speaker
So your strategy where you're looking at your, how do you want to know kind of chart your course and how you will want to shape the market at the same time, understand how the environment. So there is that angle and from a strategy, from a business development perspective, you are looking at win-win collaborations. And then I also had another one called business vectorness. The director of business vectorness was also reporting to me.
00:27:55
Speaker
that had about six different disciplines within each headed by resource. They were taking care of various aspects of the business again as support from outside. So somebody was kind of helping people become more effective in the clinic.
00:28:12
Speaker
somebody was, you know, helping them with all the commercial IT, you know, respectiveness, CRM kind of support. You know, so a lot of other, somebody was, you know, one big team was helping them with, you know, business intelligence and all that. So we, and we were supporting a very large field force, about 12,000 field force, you know. So it is,
00:28:35
Speaker
this is very very just to a different scale and then move from diagnostic to predictive analytics how and helping the teams even you know
00:28:46
Speaker
Priorities, their resources. And in pharma, it's one of the things that people struggle with is, which lever has given you what kind of return? Correct. Or the lever is more effective in your marketing mix. But helping them analyze, helping them develop tools, and helping them prioritize their resources and support for such so many marketing teams and about, I don't know how many. Fabulous. Fabulous.
00:29:13
Speaker
was a different angle to that role. So, sure. Yeah. And I think that must have really, really grown you as a person as well, isn't it? Especially when you're moving into spaces of collaboration versus competition, what you're just talking about, without losing your competitive edge. Exactly. Without losing your competitive edge and, you know, collaborating and sometimes you're even competing with them in some other segment, because you're collaborating in some other segment. So, very interesting. And I think that helped me shape and
00:29:43
Speaker
prepared me well for my current role. So I think more. And your current role coming to your current role. What is it that you are currently doing, Rajesh? In compiler? I am the group CEO of an East Africa based health care company called Abacus. We are one of the leading companies in East Africa. Right. And this is a Carlyle portfolio company. Carlyle is a large product. So this is a portfolio company of Carlyle. We are a 25 year old company and
00:30:12
Speaker
one of the pioneers in this region in terms of some students. We have two businesses, we have two business streams. One is the distribution business.
00:30:22
Speaker
And the other is we manufacture and export, as well as, you know, sell locally, large volume parenterals and small volume parenterals. Large volume parenterals is pharma jargon for IV fluids, the infusion in the hospitals, you know, like the saline.
00:30:45
Speaker
Small volume parameters include water for injection, eye drops, ear drops and all. We are one of the largest in this part of the world, in fact. One of the three, one of the earliest. And Abacus has his operations across five countries. We are headquartered in Kampala, Uganda. Uganda is a big base for us. Then we do a lot of business in Tanzania, Kenya.
00:31:12
Speaker
We're also now expanding our exports to Zambia and Malawi. And down the line, we have plans to expand to other parts of Africa, including French, West Africa, and Ethiopia. So we are more like East African countries.
00:31:30
Speaker
I think that's phenomenal. And that's what makes it so interesting is this choice you made to move to something like this. And that speaks to me about your ability to take, you know, it's a risk no matter what. Some people even said, where are you going to Africa? Where is Uganda? I mean, see, I was cruising well enough, but I had a good cache. And I think I
00:31:53
Speaker
I knew Abbott, and Abbott is such a great organization. Yeah, it's a great organization, I agree. Some of my colleagues invited me to give a talk to their teams, and you know, very virtual like this. And I was telling that, you know, you can take me out of Abbott, but you can't take Abbott out of me.
00:32:11
Speaker
When you're there in an organization for decades, it literally is part of you. There's so much that I've learned from as a wonderful organization. It's still so many friends and colleagues across various countries. And that was the other part in the last poll that I did with Abbott, as part of some global teams. And that also gave me a larger perspective of how things and from outside India is very, very different than how it is. But that said, to come into the risk part,
00:32:40
Speaker
You know, I'm, you know, when somebody's in their mid 40s, you know, you have a choice and you want to stick and, you know, play safe. I say, OK, let me take a punt. I mean, I bet on the fact that it's a Carlyle portfolio company and, you know, I'm getting a CEO role outside India. Also a good experience of family to move out. Yes. Yes.
00:33:03
Speaker
And this place is more like what India was about two decades ago. So there's no fear of unknown, really. You know how things will shape up. But of course, culture is different. People are different. Very friendly people. Uganda is a pretty, very safe country. Very good, long order. Very stable government and things like that. So we came, actually told Carlisle,
00:33:28
Speaker
that, you know, okay, I mean, you like me, I like the role and also give me an experience of managing manufacturing. Great, great, great opportunity for me to also learn, though I have worked with my manufacturing colleagues a lot, but actually being responsible for
00:33:49
Speaker
a part of business which is driven by manufacturing of your own is a great experience. And then multi-country experience, a lot of learnings. While India is a huge market, 1.2 billion, some of the learnings like I have here in this role of how the currency fluctuates or how we do the treasury management, how we do the forex hedging and things like that. I mean, I'm not directly doing it, but also responsible for that.
00:34:17
Speaker
or the inter-country nuances, both socio-political economy. Huge learning, geopolitical awareness is huge, I guess, right? Yeah, huge. I mean, I saw that at play when you were trying to bring some vaccines here, how geopolitics plays out, immense learning. Being a leader in this part of the world, you also operate, we work closely with the government,
00:34:44
Speaker
Now, government affairs is, again, a big learning. So yeah, I mean, it was a risk. I would still say, I mean, moving from 1.2 billion dollar upward MNC, India to $120 million business, which is in a completely different continent and with different countries and things like that, but very, very enriching. When I went out here in the market, with the teams, with customers, and even
00:35:12
Speaker
eventually met the president of this country, the health ministers, you know, our senior government officials is of a different order. So for me, I think, you know, it was worth
Pandemic Success Story
00:35:22
Speaker
the bet. And you won't believe it, Shiba, though it was a first year was, you know, completely driven by the first wave of pandemic. And it was my first year, but we ended the year delivering top line, delivering the GP margins, delivering everything.
00:35:39
Speaker
In fact, we exceeded their beta last year, despite the pandemic and a lot of challenges we faced. Despite all the challenges, you know, we delivered 25% more than the target. Wow. Wow.
00:35:51
Speaker
We grew the EBITDA in a historic high, 28% growth. Even the profile improved. I think it's been a great learning. And again, thanks to the team coming together, executing individual crisis. Some of us came in the middle of the year and still transitioning. I also had to build a team because
00:36:18
Speaker
I made the team a little more diverse. My leadership team is the Kenyan gentleman. My CHRO is a local Ugandan gentleman who is an LSE alum, has worked in PwC, Unilever, that kind of pedigree in Kenya, Rwanda, Uganda.
00:36:41
Speaker
Again, my legal and compliance head, she's also the company's secretary, she's half the one he's half a grand in. I had a new commercial head for the manufacturing business. Somebody who's done decades of work here in Africa, Indian by origin, but also retain some of the top performers of
00:36:59
Speaker
I know the and who have grown the organization, the distribution business head is somebody was already there in the business promoted him. So I think, you know, this this kind of building a diverse team, you know, and all of them coming together in the face of a pandemic. And my plan is a South African, again, somebody who joined in in early 2020.
00:37:22
Speaker
Lovely. It looks like you really put together a great team, a diverse team, and they delivered, right? So now looking at your journey through your work life, when the chips are down, is there a metaphor for life that you fall back on? Is there an adage you live by? Is there something that you go back to?
00:37:40
Speaker
I don't go back to another huge inspiration for me. And what should I say? Somebody who, like you keep saying, somebody who shows the mirror and somebody who gives me very good insights from a very different angle. A wife and life partner and my best friend.
00:37:59
Speaker
love is. And whether it is at work or outside, I mean, you know, she, she comes with a completely different perspective. She's very, I'm the big picture guy, she's the more grounded, you know, keeps on going, Raja, I suppose. And I think, you know, she, she's a completely, and she is very, very clear in her thinking, you know, she'll, and, and if, even if I'm not kind of trying to build a Taj Mahal, she said, you know,
00:38:29
Speaker
hold on. So I think she has been a great, great support and also an inspiration. I mean, she can do a lot of things, you know, in a very, very good manner, which I lack. I think that is one thing, you know. The other metaphor or something, if I were to look at it, I'm a person and you know me well, Shiva.
00:38:49
Speaker
I'm very, very passionate, right? And I can be a possessed person if I'm driven by a certain cause or a purpose, right? And I can get completely lost in that. So of course, over the period of time, as you mature, you also temper yourself and you have your checks and balances. And 10 years ago versus now, of course, it's a different purpose. Of course.
00:39:16
Speaker
But I think that, you know, your basic nature doesn't go away. One of the metaphors is, you know, I always say, okay, five years from now, when you look at this, will you laugh at it? Or will you regret it? Or what do you do? So, this used to be what I used to say, even in this school, when I used to tell my friends, hey, don't fight over these things, you know, when you're leaving the institute, and when you're now looking back at it after five, ten years.
00:39:40
Speaker
this will sound really silly or funny, you know, why do you take it so seriously? I think that's one of the things that I use to kind of go ahead and you kind of look back and say, how important is this going to be? Am I correct in that understanding? Yeah. So, so I think, you know, that's the linguist test of time for me, you know. Yes. What you're doing now. Yes. It's going to be as relevant and, you know, it's going to be as important and, you know, is it going to be as
00:40:09
Speaker
should I say is going to be as serious as it is now, you know, when you look back at it, you know, say five years from now. So one way of looking at it. Absolutely. And I think that is very powerful. Is there anything that you would like to, people who are just starting out or a younger Raja or somebody who's on the same, same trajectory as you think you are, maybe in Albert, maybe wherever and is there something you'd like to tell them?
Life Philosophy and Advice to Young Professionals
00:40:35
Speaker
If, if I had, you know, kind of, you know, go back and do some of those things that I did, would I have done any differently? You know, I would say that, you know, probably some of the small, it might have changed, but you know, I would have definitely prefer to have the same trajectory. Right. So I would say, I always say this, that follow your heart. Unless you like or love doing something, don't do it.
00:41:00
Speaker
So I think you know you know your strengths and you know your weaknesses that self-awareness thing that you always talk about, be self-aware, understand what are the things you know that really, but more importantly is there a purpose or there a calling for you which you need to follow and if that is there then everything will fall in place like
00:41:21
Speaker
One of the most powerful words I've come across is in Apollo, if you desire something from the depth of your heart, the whole universe will conspire to make it happen. I think that's so true. You may face obstacles, you may face hindrances, you may face challenges, but at the end of the day, if you really want to do something and that is the right thing to do and you're accomplishing something for a larger good,
00:41:44
Speaker
And that really inspires you. Please do it. And please follow. That might not be the most conventionally right choice. It cannot tick all the boxes for somebody. But are you that somebody or are you yourself? And if you have to take risks, please do take risks. Because if anybody says that they have not failed,
00:42:06
Speaker
I think either they are God or they are lying. Okay. So you're right. Absolutely. It's okay. It's, it's okay. As long as you don't fail the second time for the same thing, it is okay to, to, to, to take that risk, right? Of course, you're not going to take cowboy kind of, you know, brazen, but, but, you know, an aunt is a calculated, you know, or a well thought out where, you know, the, the chances are that you might, the chances are that might
00:42:35
Speaker
It might click and it may not click, but still want to do it because it's the right thing to do. Please do it. Absolutely. Raja, each one of us has something very unique to offer humankind, something that only you can do because you are unique, each fingerprint, et cetera. So what is your unique gift?
Future Aspirations in Knowledge Sharing
00:42:56
Speaker
That's a great thing. I want to be a net giver for sure, but I don't know if I am.
00:43:02
Speaker
there. I think for me, I have always been a knowledge person. I've been very, like I said, a very inquisitive person. And if there is anything that I can offer, one of the things I would love to do is share experiences, share thoughts, you know, and maybe at some point in time, I definitely want to write a book.
00:43:22
Speaker
At that point in time, I would definitely want to teach. And not for anything else, but just to share those experiences, or even help people by not exactly coaching the way you do it. But if somebody wants to bounce off a thought, or if somebody wants to build an idea or something, and I would love to want to help them with whatever I have learned, be that bouncing board for them.
00:43:51
Speaker
So these are three things that I think I can contribute, but yeah, I would love to get there honestly. I do do this in bits and pieces, but I think I've not done it in a very concerted, focused and structured manner. So at some point in time, I would love to do that. I don't know when. It'll happen Raja. As you said, if you want something with your heart, the whole universe will conspire to make it happen.
00:44:16
Speaker
And I'm sure it already is. I'm sure a lot of your people still benefit a lot from your mentoring. Oh, yeah. I would love to. And mentoring tasks, such a, what should I say? At least I have had three guys in my team, young folks. Two of them got to both Harvard Business School and Kellogg. One of them is now with Medtronic in California, the global product manager.
00:44:44
Speaker
Another guy is with BCG in Boston, you know, people whom you not only work with, but mentored them, you know, guided them for their HPS. Third guy is, therefore is, you know, entry into Kellogg. And even now I have two chiefs of staff who are aspiring to get into HPS or, you know, Wharton or whatever. And, you know, working with them is a completely different pleasure, you know.
00:45:05
Speaker
Like I say, one of these guys actually said in the farewell, I don't know how I can pay you back. I said, no, please, please don't even think on those lines. Don't pay back, pay forward. Somebody took a bet on me, and I am where I am. And somebody helped me, so I am where I am. So the best way to help is to pay forward, not pay back. So you can help somebody.
00:45:31
Speaker
go to their you know scale new heights then then I think you know what what I have done has come to fruition right so absolutely I think that is again that is really it's really beautiful and that's the way the world actually moves on right and develops and evolves absolutely yeah is a is a great thing the mentoring part that you talked about is so wonderful as an experience while you are giving
00:45:57
Speaker
The pleasure is and the joy is of very different order. It is very different. You're absolutely right. So what value does this kind of a conversation have for you, Raja, like you and I are having? What does it do? I think for me one
00:46:11
Speaker
You know, I think we've been having those message exchanges, but it's been a long time since we connected and had a chat like this, like we used to do in Chennai or Delhi. Of course, I remember. My God, how could I forget? I don't know if you still go to Pondicherry, but I do. I do. Auroville is another one. I do.
00:46:30
Speaker
such a very soothing and beautiful place, right? It's almost surreal at times. So reconnecting with somebody like you is always a pleasure. You get, I think, to reflect and reminisce a lot, which also is very, very good. I know otherwise in the usual flow of things, but for such conversations like design, and you know, when you look forward to it, like whether no
00:46:58
Speaker
One of these weekends, I had, we had set up in my B-School, we all came together on Zoom, one of my batch mates. Yes, there is no agenda, you know, pulling legs, talking of those stuff, which looks silly now, what you did, what I did. And then suddenly a topic comes up and you talk about, you know,
00:47:22
Speaker
the environment and what have you. And somebody talks about business and it is a totally as in a, or that kind of conversation or a conversation like this, you know, these help you reminisce, reflect, and you know, think. And, you know, it also makes you think as a person rather than, you know, the kind of role that you're doing, which is what we end up doing most of the times, right? You know, the roles that we do are the roles that we do. You know, there is, like you said, who's the real you?
00:47:50
Speaker
many times we reflect and discover in such conversations. So it's always a pleasure. Lovely to talk to an old friend or an old colleague is always fun. So lovely to have spoken with you Raja and thank you so much for making the time. It's been an absolute pleasure and I wish you every success as your journey on and more power to you to all the things that you want to do and you're already doing. Thank you so much for making the time.
00:48:19
Speaker
Thank you and thanks for having me over in Soul Brew. Wonderful talking to you as always Shiba and all the very best and please do take care and stay safe. I will and you too. Bye-bye. Thank you for your time and attention and for being a part of Soul Brews with Shiba. Until next week, keep the coffee swirling