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Under the Vinfluence - Episode 1 - The Pauly Principles
19 Plays1 year ago
Hello, wine world! Welcome to Under the Vinfluence.
Get to know your hosts, Scott and Pauly and learn all about Pauly's underlying principles for experiencing wine.
And we get into a few bottles from France....
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to 'Under the Vinfluence'
00:00:19
Speaker
I'm doing some sound effects right now, Paulie. It doesn't sound quite right, but oh well.
00:00:30
Speaker
But here we are. We're testing out our first episode of Under the Vinfluence. So I'm Scott. I'm here with Paulie. And we're going to try and create a little wine podcast. And we're in the middle of a, not really chaotic, but a public space.
Setting the Scene at Watermark Country Club
00:00:50
Speaker
What do they call it? The Regal Beagle? Is that what the guys were calling it? Yeah, it's something like that. It's a barred country club that's under construction. So it's a little wack. So you may hear crazy extra sounds. Hopefully we've dialed it in a little bit. So it's actually consumable. So I'm Scott. I'm going to play host in this little adventure experimental idea.
00:01:16
Speaker
I'm a wine drinker. I'm a wine drinker too that also buys wine.
Scott's Wine Journey and Podcast Vision
00:01:22
Speaker
We have a little bit of experience with wine. I have a little experience with wine. He has a lot of experience with wine. I drop more. It's not just about that. It's about more than just drinking wine. You've got a lot of knowledge rattling around in that head of yours.
00:01:38
Speaker
I love to learn about wine, and Pauli's been teaching me about wine, some of it I even retain for a few years now. But we're gonna try and create a podcast here that covers a bunch of aspects of wine. Fruit, varietals, the culture around wine, wine history, and also focuses on how we actually consume wine in different settings
Paulie's Wine Industry Insights
00:02:06
Speaker
and things like that.
00:02:07
Speaker
And as I said, we're also going to move around different places that we typically consume wine. So it could be in a bar, it could be at a fine dining restaurant, it could be in our homes. We're probably not going to go to the communion rail at a church. That's probably a bad idea.
00:02:27
Speaker
But so today we're at the under construction water. I wonder if it's a drink at the Vatican though. Ooh, that would be fun. I mean objectively. Again, once we get the Spotify deal done. There we go. That's what we'll do. So today we're at Watermark Country Club, Grand Rapids, Michigan. It is under construction. And we're right outside the kitchen.
00:02:50
Speaker
And the only active bar they have. And the portable bar, like the banquet bar. We also know a lot of people around here, so at various stages, we may be interrupted by friendly faces, which is
The Bond of Friendship and Wine
00:03:04
Speaker
fine. That's what mine's about. We're just here to hang out and have conversations, so it's all good. Yeah, so Paulie, how long have we known each other?
00:03:15
Speaker
10 years Probably at least yeah, because no yeah 2014 was Was that peak bourbon and scotch? Yeah. Yeah. Yep. So at least And then we've truly bonded around well just we've become better friends over over the years and and now we bond a lot around wine you know
00:03:41
Speaker
Well, back to what you had said earlier, why is it an experience? So everything incorporates the place, where you're at, who you're with, where it's from. It's just more than the great thing. Thank goodness it is, because some of it's really trash. And I brought some of that. OK, thanks.
00:04:02
Speaker
That was Savannah giving us our bill already. She's been here for a while. Yeah, so our first episode, that's a good segue into the topic of
Introducing 'Pauli's Principles'
00:04:18
Speaker
the first episode, which is Pauli's Principles, which are these ideas you've laid out around your philosophy about consuming wine or even learning about wine and experiencing wine in general. And so it's going to be interesting
00:04:32
Speaker
to walk through all of those and have a conversation around it. Give everybody a little bit of a sense of what your background is and how you got into this crazy thing and all the different ways you've been in the wine world. It's been a wonderful roller coaster. Over 25 years now, I'd say 25 years in the industry. Wow. Since you were 12. Yeah. Good job. Yeah. And I wish I would have gotten sooner. Yeah. It really is. I've done everything in the wine industry pretty much
00:05:02
Speaker
semester Street rep bottle shop owner importer supplier retailer every on-premise manager Consultant wine list creations, right? There's pretty much any part of wine distribution and education. I haven't dabbled it And it's phenomenal. I mean it's I wish I would have started sooner
00:05:29
Speaker
OK, you know, so so this is going to come to an inevitable question. We might as well get out of the way right away. Are you a song, Pauli? Technically, do I have the little letters behind? I pay ten thousand dollars. No, I think. Do we believe in that? I don't know. I mean, I've met a lot of good ones. There are some good ones. But no, no, no, I love songs.
Wine as a Cultural Connector
00:05:51
Speaker
I mean, no, no. Anyone is dedicated their entire life to that. God bless them and stuff like that.
00:05:58
Speaker
But to be passionate and all in on wine, you can be a wine owner and a winemaker and just almost say, what do you really call this thing when you get a doctorate? Like the guy who runs his oil, right? You just, oh gosh, that's a reference. I can't remember. Right, right. But when you just, when a layperson does so much work outside of the academic structures, I would say that I probably have like a weird,
00:06:22
Speaker
I don't know how many sums have done all the craziest things I've done in history. We were talking about this last week where my vision or my version of who you are is that you're beyond a sum because a sum is going to be able to do all the things to pass that test and there's a ton of knowledge. Respect to anybody who goes through that.
00:06:45
Speaker
You've got the business background, all of the practical aspects of wine consumption, like production, distribution, and consumption. If there was a Somme label for the wine industry, I would be a Somme. I would be a Master Somme in the wine industry. Not a Master Somme in wine. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's where I think that these kinds of conversations are going to become really interesting, because it's a different take.
00:07:14
Speaker
the wine world. It's a much more accessible take. It's much more interesting for people to be able to grab little things that are practical in the way that they want to consume.
00:07:26
Speaker
Which is what you've been doing both in your day job, but also in the business you're growing around tastings, which is a very different perspective on wine tastings than most people ever get. I guarantee it. Most people get a wine tasting and it's some rep trying to push, this is what I'm getting spiffed to sell.
00:07:48
Speaker
I need to go do a wine tasting on this specific wine maker because they need to move X number of cases in my market. And it's really just a sales job. And the way that you deliver wine tastings is...
00:08:06
Speaker
having a conversation with somebody and going, what do you want to experience? And then you custom create this. And it could be from a bunch of different places, a bunch of regions, a bunch of different grapes. And the experience is freaking fantastic.
00:08:20
Speaker
I appreciate it and that's what I really, that's what's kept me engaged with it. It was a bookworm about it, but it's, I love taking wine person 101 and just seeing their eyes light up. It's okay to like this wine. It's okay not to like wine. You know, just introduce them to the wine. If they take it further, they go on to be a master's psalm. I want to be, hey, I want to take that credit for pushing them into
00:08:42
Speaker
the water. So now that I've properly kissed your ass to set things up, I think it's a good time to lean into what are Pauli's principles, for one. You're telling your philosophy on these principles, and then we'll walk through
Diving into Pauli's Wine Principles
00:08:59
Speaker
them one by one. OK, so the Pauli's principles were really organic in how they came up. It wasn't a marketing angle. It wasn't brainstorming. It was just like,
00:09:10
Speaker
When I, it was basically, it was how I introduced myself in a wine tasting, and I was saying the same damn thing over and over and over again. So if I could just streamline this, you know, it's almost like my calling card, it's my elevator pitch, you know, tell me what you do in wine, you know.
00:09:28
Speaker
It was just my introduction. Yeah. And it flows real well. Yeah, it's great because it disarms everybody. It's like, oh, I don't need to know the whole flavor wheel. I'm not pitching myself. You guys, there's six Paulie's principles. Does it sound like a pitch for Paulie? No. It sounds like a resume. This is who I am. This is what can be expected from talking with me. Y'all like it? You don't? We're good. This is what we're doing.
00:09:57
Speaker
I can raise the pinky finger and that's not how I choose to play. Right. So let's start. First, Pauli's principle. You can reflect on this. Go ahead. You and you alone are the only true expert on what you taste, which you're starting off with. It's not quite a don't listen to the experts, but it's sort of a don't listen to the experts.
00:10:27
Speaker
So why did you come up with that? Because this happens every day, like an hour ago. While I signed the bill, by the way. 20-year-old asked me, Paulie, what's the best wine in here? Are you a sum? He said, are you a sum? What's the best wine in here? I go, no.
00:10:46
Speaker
I don't know what the best wine is. What do you like? That's so subjective. And no one can say what the best wine is. It's silly, especially these days, because everything gets all muddy. Well, I mean, is it a wine beverage? Is it a style wine, a regional wine? Whining in and of itself is really a moving target.
00:11:16
Speaker
So saying that, giving people the agency to be the expert in what they like is really smart because it flips the table, right? If you're ever engaged in a way where someone's trying to talk to you about a wine, you can pick up what they're telling you and you can absorb it, but then you're the authority. When you put it to your lips and you taste it,
00:11:40
Speaker
I don't get that. You get to have an opinion. So I love it. It's a democratizing kind of message. And I think it's a great foundation to start with.
00:11:52
Speaker
with your principles. Yeah, and I went on to it to explain it. Now, technically speaking from that, you know, you want a cab to taste like this from this region, but if you don't like it, you don't have to grow, you know, there are certain places in the world, you can only grow these grapes from this region to be called that. It's like, well, I want to plant this grape in the grocery because I like that one. Okay, cool, do it, do it.
00:12:16
Speaker
So there's this might not be able to call it certain things but but if that's what you enjoy drinking, right? Okay, and is it good to you shocking the mayor of watermark is here
00:12:27
Speaker
Hi Ken, you're the first guest under the influence. This looks really amazing what you guys have going on here. We don't have anything going on yet. We haven't even begun to talk about wine. Paulie hasn't even poured this pour one and start drinking it. Well, I was waiting. You don't have to wait. Just have something in your hand. Very nice. So you're recording? We're almost 13 minutes in, Ken. Let me keep you guys tuned.
00:12:56
Speaker
We'll have some, there's some French wine in it. Your wife maybe is... Yeah, he's got a whole lineup. No, no, no, no, no, no. Shut up. Don't be the freaking spoiler over there. Can they see the bottles? They can't see the bottles yet. Okay. We'll see you soon, Ken. All right.
00:13:21
Speaker
So on to Polly's principle number two. Number two, wine is more than merely a beverage. Wine is a snapshot of what was happening in a specific vineyard, in a specific place made by individuals who crafted it to be shared with others a world away. I think this opens up so many doors, like the idea that you can
00:13:42
Speaker
taste another place in a bottle. Well, see, that's the cool part. You know, in fact, we talked about wine itself is a moving cart, right? You know, and so, but if you want to get to the nitty-gritty, what is wine? That's how we would answer that question. That is what is wine to me and anyone who calls themselves a venophile. Right, right. And we've had some amazing conversations about history and some of these
00:14:07
Speaker
Vineyards that are it's like the incredible story. It's part of our DNA. I mean it is I Was just reading about the one of the wines I was gonna bring open they figured out that there have been vineyards there for 2,500 years The Romans that conquered that area this was there. This is where they grew wines to keep their troops lubricated And it goes back
00:14:35
Speaker
here, drink some more good stuff so you can kill. So yeah, it's amazing. The concept of what wine is. And I think we both nerd out the same way about the history of different things and things like, oh my gosh, if you can taste a wine from a piece of dirt that's been producing grapes for 2,500 years, do you not feel a little bit like,
00:15:04
Speaker
this is a special thing, even if it's not the same vines or anything like that. No, but it's like it's a connection. Let's talk about it. Let's talk about a newly planted vineyard in Spain. Some new plants and vines, picked them, crushed them, set them, bottled them and put his name on it and set it across the ocean. I mean, I mean, that's just, you know, with something brand new. Right. Let alone it's been in his family for 800 years. Right.
00:15:33
Speaker
And the great, great, great, great grandmothers to have a winemaker. Mind blown. Yeah. Now you're teasing a little bit of my bias, which is love those stories. They come from France and Italy and Spain. They don't come from Napa. I'm sorry. But anyway, that's just me. Not saying there's nothing good out of Napa, but I am. Well, you disagree. Which is fine. Anyway, we'll get into that down the road. All right.
00:16:02
Speaker
Pauli's principle number three, the more you know, the more you know, you don't know, which I think is brilliant. And I wish that more people who are into wine have that attitude because there's plenty of people that are really into wine that think they know everything. And it's, it's, did you miss the whole point of, of what wine is there? I mean, there's just, you can't read them. You can't,
00:16:26
Speaker
It's amazing. I feel stupid every day. I swear to God. 25 years in. 25 years in. I learned something every day. And it's like, I should know that, or I never thought about that, or I didn't even know that existed, that type of thing. I think that's interesting. These days, I feel like I definitely learn things every day, but some of them I know I've learned before, and then they fall out of my brain.
00:16:54
Speaker
to have an expert say, yet you're still continually learning. It's exciting. I go home and look stuff up. And it's like, I knew it. I didn't know that. It's cool. I get excited. I don't get intimidated by it. Because if you really have a humble approach for the magnitude of what this product is, it's chemistry. It's environmental science. It's culture. It's tradition.
00:17:19
Speaker
You don't understand all of that. You have to live the experience. This reminds me of that trip we took a couple weeks ago where I, for one, I think it was something that you were very familiar with, but I, for one, we went to a vineyard.
00:17:36
Speaker
I was blown away by how much science is involved in it and how whether it's soil or whether it's the treatment of the fruit or whether it's once it's smushed what you have to do with it. It's like it's kind of mind-blowing. These people have to be
00:17:55
Speaker
experts. People making this stuff have to be experts in a lot of different fields. Well sure I mean again it's that it's not a some wines are dialed out to it is a wine beverage more so they're not true handcrafted wine but Mother Nature is throwing you something different every year right and you've got to compensate so it's to a quality level of expectation that you've set for your winery and your clientele.
00:18:18
Speaker
And you're right, absolutely right. They've got to come up and shut off the top of their head like, OK, it was too hot in the beginning of the summer, but then how do you modify it to build the best? And it's different every year. It reminds me of that. I think we had conversations about this, but a couple of years back when there were all the fires in California and all the winemakers had to, some of them, the wine beverage makers didn't know what to do. They had to dump a bunch of stuff. They did. And the ones that knew
00:18:49
Speaker
I need to adapt every year. They were able to tweak it and not have all of their production ruined by it all being smoked out. So it's interesting. Again, the more you know, the more you know. I think you build an appreciation too for where it comes from. I've learned more about the agriculture and the environmental stewardship that's involved with anything like that. You just compound.
00:19:18
Speaker
It's fun. All right, so, Pauli's principle number four. There's no room for pretentiousness in wine. By the way, this is a breaking news update. There is
Importance of Shared Wine Experiences
00:19:29
Speaker
no room for pretentiousness in wine. It's just smushed grapes. If only the whole world would know that. You just mentioned in our last little conversation humility and how much there is to learn and how, so yeah.
00:19:49
Speaker
I'd be pretentious of you. I don't get it. I really don't get it. And I think that one of the things that I've appreciated about you about that lack of pretension is you know what I like. You know my palate now because we've done this tasting wine for a while now. And one of the things that you always are able to do is to put together, OK, I know what you like.
00:20:19
Speaker
Normally, you have to spend $30 to $50 a bottle on this.
00:20:26
Speaker
I found this and it tastes up here and it costs down here. And there are a lot of people, even consumers, who would never look at those bottom shelves at the store, right, where the cheaper bottles are. They don't look at grapes that they're not familiar with. So talk about that a little bit about how you communicate to people about, how do you do an end around on that potential or those expectations? Polycrystal number one.
00:20:56
Speaker
I mean, I don't, it wasn't developed to be a sales tool or a traffic tool, but you turn it back to, it's all about you enjoying it, the customer enjoying it. Whether they can pronounce it great, know where it's from, right? Who cares? You know, it's not about one up mid-show. Let's dial it. You're the expert in what you like. I have to define what those characteristics are.
00:21:20
Speaker
and then go through my bevy of other experiences and regions and flavor profiles from different areas and varietals that may be akin to that. You don't have to know what it is. You like it. So it turns it back to the consumer person asking the question. Again, it's not entrapment. No, no, no. You're trying to give them a great experience. Yeah, exactly. But I just always love it because you
00:21:49
Speaker
We've done blind tastings where he's brought multiple versions of the same varietal and then said, which is the most expensive wine? And we can get fooled regularly because frequently the lower priced wines are the higher quality wines these days.
00:22:15
Speaker
Well, and I might have just said something overly general, but that's why I'm not the expert. Well, yeah, well, just well, yes and no. Okay, I want to give you a little more credit than you're giving yourself. Come on. We've given you expensive wines that you know taste what expensive wines are, but are they quality wines? Right, right. So the pricing sometimes,
00:22:40
Speaker
But more often that doesn't really come into the equation. Right. I've given America made a recommendation for people. It's not enough. But dude, it kicks that, so that's a toy for price. And you're going to like it more. Right. And we've talked about this too, like sometimes those more like higher price points.
00:22:57
Speaker
Hey, I believe in capitalism. If that's what selling, that's what the market demands. But it's almost being manufactured to fit that labor profile to get that dollar figure. Yes, that's my complaint. When NapaCab and
00:23:16
Speaker
You can't tell the difference between a merlot, a cab, and a pinot noir. We've got to borrow 50 bucks. That's a whole lot more easily. All right. Well, so off the soapbox, I'm sure we'll get on multiple soapboxes. Absolutely. Well, better examples, for more examples. Yeah. All right. Pauli principle number five. Wine is always best shared with others.
00:23:43
Speaker
I mean, just generally speaking, if you're drinking alone, check yourself. But on that note, cheers. That's probably a better sound than that crappy thing at the beginning. From the beginning of time, wine was meant to be shared. It was always done around communal settings.
00:24:06
Speaker
Well, the Bible thing that celebratory, you know, the water to wine and a wedding with the whole town. I mean, well, they're partying for like a week. Yeah. Woo. Wow. I bet some of that wine started to turn a little bit by the end of those celebrations. Maybe that's why they stopped. Like the wedding feast is over when the wine goes. Or it's over when it runs out.
00:24:32
Speaker
All right, so that one, I feel like that one is a pretty obvious one, and I hope that anybody who chooses to listen to the, under the influence podcast would already have that expectation that wine is best shared with others. It's best, but it's part of, it kind of, wine is an experience, and it's sometimes good experience you can have here by itself. You can have a, it's best when, you know, it's meant to be shared, but sometimes you can have those personal
00:25:00
Speaker
where this wine may remind you of a time. It may remind me of my grandfather. It's a really personal experience. Yes, it's always great. It's so fun to try new wine, but sometimes you can be reflective and say, this reminds me of this. I'm enjoying this by myself. You treat wine as not a beverage in an experience in general. It opens up.
00:25:25
Speaker
A lot more. It is interesting. As we first met at a thing called the Bourbon and Scotch Society, it was a social setting around bourbon and scotches and it was a chance to experience different things back when scotch was a thing and bourbon was starting to come up and everybody wanted to have their dialogue. They want to understand what's good, what's not, what do they like.
00:25:52
Speaker
that's always been there for wine. It's interesting that we met that way and now our real experience back and forth is very much around wine and not spirits at all. At least we had the right instincts there, right? A shared note. All right, final Polly's principle, which I think we can always attest to, is the best glass of wine is the one in your hand.
00:26:21
Speaker
So give me a little bit of an explanation around that, because that's almost like, I don't want it to sound like, um, well, I've got a glass of wine. So therefore I have to like it. Yeah. And I don't know if we're talking about actually the wine, you know, um, you never try and compare and I tell us to people when we do multiple tastings, we taste six. You're not supposed to pick your favorite.
00:26:48
Speaker
You're supposed to be different. I like this better than this, but this one's better than that. That's not true. This one shows this case. This expresses itself this way. So the best class of wine, you're fortunate to have a glass of wine in your hand. Experience this way. Experience this way. That's a great explanation.
00:27:09
Speaker
It's, again, contrary to the way that a lot of people go to like wine tasting. Your wine tasting is, you know, rank it and here's your order form at the end or whatever.
00:27:19
Speaker
No, a wine tasting should be about seeing what you like and what you don't. It's not about rank order. Right. And everything in and out, right? So right now, oh, this conversation is great, Scott, but it's so much better if you would have bought a better glass of wine. What a shitty way to say it. It doesn't work like that. It's everything and all encompassing. But yeah, appreciate what you have and recognize for what it is and go with it. Yeah, so those are the Pauli principles.
00:27:49
Speaker
And if you want to learn more about that or see it again because we don't know what we're doing with the podcast, we don't know how to publish notes or anything like that, go to polyonwine.com and you'll see Pauli's principles.
Role of Importers in the Wine World
00:28:08
Speaker
And then you can also learn how Pauli does these different tasting kind of experiences.
00:28:18
Speaker
and learn about that portion of what Polly does for a living. So now, that's all kind of like preamble to our vision for what we will be doing on a regular basis, which is really just sitting around, shooting the shit and tasting wine. I'm talking about them. And so, you know, we'll tell you what we're drinking and then
00:28:44
Speaker
experience it and probably go off the rails multiple times. Yeah. It's going to be a non-linear conversation. It'll start somewhere. It'll start somewhere. We have no idea where. And sometimes it changes like on the way here. So usually I meet with these guys, a bottle of wine anywhere here and say, Hey, this is what I brought with you. And we just start talking about the wines and goes off. And then we talk about a bunch of other things. Right. Right. So that's kind of what we're going to be doing. There'll be wine stuff in there.
00:29:14
Speaker
There will be one stuff. And it will all reinforce the Pauli principles. When wine launches a conversation around something else and in the end, everybody hugs it out. Great. All right. So I'm just to, you know, transparency, I am wrapping up a glass of Kermit Lynch de Rone. It's my go to here at
00:29:44
Speaker
the Watermark Country Club. It's like they always have it. It's solid. Well, yeah, but it's fairly high production, right? I mean, it's everywhere. It's he doesn't over. He doesn't mess with his own contracts that can only exceed. So it gets so much anyway. So but this one's larger contract ones, but still good quality for the money. So I mean, actually, this is a good thing to talk about, like looking at a wine label. We've you've given me this tip.
00:30:13
Speaker
Kermit Lynch doesn't make wine, right? No. Kermit Lynch is an importer? Yes. Give us a description of what's the difference there. It's like some basics. Yeah, so an importer, the way our country works, they have the register coming into the country, and then it has to go through distributor to a retailer to the consumer. It starts with who's going to bring what into the country. Everybody's got to make money all along their way, three or four levels.
00:30:41
Speaker
And unfortunately, guys like him and me make the least of how we learned this evolution. But yeah, so this gentleman goes out and he's put together a portfolio, a collection of wines that
00:30:54
Speaker
He feels comfortable putting his name on year after year after year that does what he wants it to do. And he put together his book and set the sense of place and reach in that type of thing. So it's not, I need a wine that tastes like this to sell to my American friends, American market. These wines exude this and he finds channels soon. So he's curating what he wants to represent, put his name behind and then putting his name on the label to move it.
00:31:20
Speaker
And we've experienced a few of those, like Kermit is one. Mary Taylor. Mary Taylor is one that very much fits into my flavor palette and kind of like, and price point. Is Kermit Lynch typically like a lower reasonable price point as well? Or is it a variety? No, he can go crazy. Yeah, it's fun because he offers some great
00:31:48
Speaker
entry-level lines that really exude that type of quality, and then it goes up the chain. And then you ask questions just for the benefit of myself and hopefully others, hopefully people listen. Is there ever someone like that that's working with domestic producers in the US?
00:32:14
Speaker
They're called conglomerates nowadays here in the United States. There are a lot of wine portfolios are just conglomerates. I will buy up pieces of the players on the board and they don't care. And these European emperors will not knock down the 1300 century to build this whole commodity.
Subjective Nature of Wine Tasting
00:32:43
Speaker
Yeah, they're not all about factory efficiency. They're about creating a product. And, you know, not within the latest Nielsen rating is the set, you know, and that type of thing. They're just saying, hey, this respect for that region and that history and culture, so. Okay. And so not because I need something to drink here, so we'll just segue into that. Yeah, yeah. Before I got here today, I had a supplier pop in and Antoine was from a French importer.
00:33:10
Speaker
And same thing, they started out just with a couple vineyards, representing a couple vineyards, then they went on to buy vineyards, and they've got this whole portfolio now from all over France. And these were some of the things he featured with us. And as you can see, it's a white wine. It's always a palate cleanser. But no, in the, yeah, it's, so this is a white Bordeaux.
00:33:36
Speaker
which should be in Samyeon Blanc. Predominantly soft in Samyeon Blanc, sometimes it's heavy, and this is 100% Samyeon. So, is that Kim Crawford? It's peachy, it's stone fruit. Grass clippings. Oh, grass clippings.
00:34:01
Speaker
Also, when you're sniffing wine and tasting wine, make shit up. Make it all up. There is nothing wrong. We'll go into that example. Whatever gets your old factory memory sparked. It is my job to figure out, I see what you're talking about. It's obscure. I mean, if I say it smells like a grandmother's feet.
00:34:21
Speaker
That's not going to be helpful for you. Well, no. Did she have diabetes? No. All right, real quick. I was screaming behind the ears. This guy, I was calling on this super large chain of West Michigan. I had been in the industry 12 months. And he wanted to sit down and talk with me. And he was the wine buyer of West Michigan. And we sit down. And I knew I wasn't qualified just to be in this presence. And he says, well, tell me what you think. Just say the first thing that comes to mind. No, really.
00:34:52
Speaker
No, you're just gonna think I'm crazy. You're gonna think I'm crazy. No, just say it. Reminds me of when I was riding bikes with my kid behind Miami Elementary in fifth grade. I'm fired. I know. I'm just gonna quit my job. Yeah, I'm done. Yeah. And he just got this smile on his face. And it's like, no, don't do that. Can you continue? So tell me about, you said, behind this, it's woods behind Miami University. It's well described. You know, it's always a pain in the ass. You already had bald tires.
00:35:20
Speaker
and you were going through, it was a dry, hot day in the summer, but you'd always have to worry about slipping on the leaves and wiping out, even though it was a summery day. And he just gets a bigger smile. He goes, you just described everything in this line. The wet leaves and the mold and stuff like that. And it was a French line. And he goes, you just nailed it. My brother and I, riding our bikes,
00:35:48
Speaker
He knew enough about with his experiences to tie that into what I was talking about. Right? So no, no description is obscure. Yeah, you know, and it's Pauli principle number one. You are the expert. When you're drinking it, smelling it, whatever it is. That's what you do. That is your experience of it.
00:36:10
Speaker
It might flares up memories. Maybe you don't have the official Psalm way of describing it, but you do have that olfactory memory that suddenly goes, ooh, this reminds me of, ooh, right. And again, back to the, I drink a lot. And then there's people say, you know, how do you, how do you know so much about what? I drink a lot.
00:36:31
Speaker
Go to as many wine tastings as you can. Try as many a secure wines on a wine list as you can. Go to those ones where you go and they have all these tables open, side by side, that type of thing.
Wine Characteristics and Occasions
00:36:43
Speaker
I really never had a bad time in a wine tasting. What do you get on this one? You got the fresh glass country. It's fresh, it's vibrant.
00:36:58
Speaker
I said stone fruit. Yes, absolutely. And I say that mostly because my memory of that is I don't like stone fruit. I don't like apricots. I don't like any of that kind of stuff. And so frequently, when I'm particularly in white wines, I'll smell it. I'll be like, I'm not going to like it. And then, of course, I taste it and I go, oh, that's really lovely. Nectarine. Nectarine, is that what it is?
00:37:34
Speaker
Not overly acidic, like you see a lot of racy acidity out of a lot of Let's show the camera what it is that we're drinking right now So it was an was on or dough white or dough see if Hopefully hopefully that works. I don't know it's gonna work. I
00:37:55
Speaker
We're trying new things. So, I mean, so White Bordeaux, I mean, White Bordeaux, for what it is, yes, so let's be objective, but it is a lighter body, a little light in the mid-palette. Yep. It's on the finish. It's almost mouth watering. Doesn't leave you a, like, tart tang on the side, so not a lot of ham. Perfect. Pound by the bottle, by the poolside. That's what, this is what we would call a boat point, because of that light mid-palette. You're just kind of drinking that pain and tension. So,
00:38:25
Speaker
And we would normally have this little more chilled than it is, right? Yeah. So this is showing a little bit more fruit. Right. I was going to say, if it was a little chilled, it would even be a little bit more of that crisp refreshing. Yes, it would be more. So it wouldn't be as light or flabby as it might be right now. But it still has something a little bit of a city. It's not flabby. I think it's a little light in the mid palette. Right. That would be more in tune. It was a little cool. But it's a tropical region.
00:38:59
Speaker
The boat wine or patio pounder or whatever you call them. Well, patio pounder might be a little bit different. This is more the boat. This is the boat. It reminds me of summer. And we hope for summer.
00:39:21
Speaker
It's the beginning of Michigan, the beginning of March in Michigan. And yesterday it was 70 degrees and today it's in the 40s and raining. Would have been great yesterday. Yeah. Yeah. So fun. Yeah. I do. Yeah. It's nice. So what I'll do is we'll do the same. Yeah. So I won't bring it, you know, I'm not bringing to impression. Hey, this is what I got from the rep.
00:39:46
Speaker
or decide what I have to try. So we're going to try a couple others. Yeah. And this would be a fun experiment today. So I always come with a theme that we're, you know, it's like, well, today your theme is. Well, at the last minute with a French guy. So he, in his portfolio has an entry level, you know, 1299 Redboard Joe. And then I think this wasn't much, like a $25.
00:40:16
Speaker
retail Bordeaux and a $30 retail Bordeaux, 35. Okay. But once it's 2016, so we're gonna... Okay. There'll be a lot to talk about. Ooh, yeah. Yeah, there'll be a lot to talk about. These are current finish, so we just had a, what, a 2022. This is a 2022, and then we're gonna go to a 2016, and then a 2019. Okay, I probably switched. But before we do that, we're gonna take a break. Yes. Because I have to pee.
00:40:47
Speaker
Okay, we're back. It feels so much better. I feel like I got room for more wine now, Polly. We have this plus three points I reached. Oh, nice. You've got the unending man purse of wine. Yeah, thanks to ARP. Ah, that's an example of the lovely environmental noise we get here. Hey, this is life. This is real world. This is it.
00:41:13
Speaker
All right, so what are we working on here? All right, so real quick, I want to preface this one. Yeah. So Paulie, how would you evaluate this one? You know, that last one, you know, I got a little critical, but, you know, I mean, I was getting a little geeky as far as everything has a place. Sure. Right. Okay. You know, for that price point, for that experience, basically, that's how people ask, well, how do you pick the lines? You know,
00:41:42
Speaker
does it, can I sell them? Yeah, there you go. Whether or not I like that. That's the business. Whether or not I would take it home, it's different, but it doesn't have a place in the shopping experience, the opportunities I have to provide for all of my customers. Do you see people on a regular basis that would
00:42:00
Speaker
vibe with that wine is basically your valuation. But I necessarily have to meet all of you, not something you would take home. No, I wouldn't drink that, but if you love it, and if you tell me back to your experiences, I have a wine that smells like your mom's sheet. I know exactly the wine. And so that's one where I might buy it.
00:42:23
Speaker
Once or twice a year for specific things if I'm gonna bring it to a pool party or something like that Or if I don't really go out on other people's boats But I don't like paying other people's gas so Yeah, no, it's not really that it's just I don't like boats But yeah, no it to your point it has a place right and you don't know That until you taste it and you go. Okay file that away and
00:43:06
Speaker
good, but different. I'm not saying you would like one better than the other. Again, what are you doing with it? It was always a question I asked. When people ask me, oh, what do you want? I'll get up in the grill. It's like, so what are you going to do with it? Give it away? Are you eating it? What kind of food are you eating with? I'm not trying to invite myself out to dinner with them. But no, it sets an expectation of
00:43:09
Speaker
I don't know.
00:43:26
Speaker
who might like this based on how they're going to use it. So we're going to power through these next three wines and we're going to do a little bit of a speedier other than normal conversation just for the sake of showing you the experience. The experience, you know, and something like this is once a week
00:43:43
Speaker
Paulie and I do this even if we're not recording a podcast. Maybe it'll just turn into once a week we're going to record a podcast. I'd like to do it once a week. We do it anyway. Right.
Exploring Bordeaux Wines
00:43:54
Speaker
We do it anyway. And there's always a new topic. And sometimes it has nothing to do with wine a little bit.
00:44:01
Speaker
It always evolves. It evolves and grows to other places. And there's always other people around. Yeah. And we have great conversations. Yeah. But yeah, so we start with here until we get off the topic. So while we're on this topic, the same guy brought into me an entry-level boarder. Entry-level boarder. So the term entry-level more sounds
00:44:26
Speaker
lower priced. Yeah but does that mean naturally like by by definition lower quality? It's, I wouldn't say lower quality. Um, rougher around the edges. Okay. Maybe. Yeah. Okay so I mean we're gonna have a Margaux but this is not twelve hundred dollars a bottle Margaux. This is a forty dollar Margaux. Okay. Yeah yeah yeah. Right so hold on I'm drinking Margaux. Margaux it's like new. It's an entry level. It's from the general region.
00:44:55
Speaker
Okay, so this would be the, if Margo was Grand Rapids, this would be from Lowell. It still falls in that Kent County, but right on the edge of my own. Interesting. Okay, so entry level. I'm not sure I like that way of describing it. Now I'm, am I allowed to like things from Lowell? Yes, remember, what do you like? What do you like?
00:45:26
Speaker
Keep convincing me, Paulie. This one is that entry-level Bordeaux, same producer as the white Bordeaux. Right on the nose. I'm very excited by the nose. You are? Yeah, I think it's very vibrant, stinky. You can even put this on your nose and you know it's from France. I smell dirt. It's camera low from France.
00:45:57
Speaker
So you try. It's well structured. It's well structured, has continuity. I think it's got. I think it finishes like a big boy. It does. It's got a lot of tannin, a lot of acid. The fruits.
00:46:22
Speaker
a little dark. A lot of times I just guess on things. With that really rich kind of fruit
00:46:36
Speaker
characteristic. Does that mean if you if you just sat on this for a couple years, it would mellow out a little bit? It would mellow, but I don't think that troops going to pop. I don't think it's closed fruit. I think it's dark, dark, and those better vineyards produce more flavorful fruit, and that's why you pay more, right? It's okay. You know, the better fruit gives you the better tasting. I think so structurally, I think this is great, right? It's got great acid, great tannin. The fruit component is okay.
00:47:06
Speaker
will just, how will it change? If I were to open that in a year, I think you would be disappointed. Because the assets will fall off, the tans will fall off. Just be as flat as the one dimensional. It'll be more one dimensional.
00:47:25
Speaker
Could I knock off a bottle of this watch in a Netflix? You know, that same thing? No. No, it's too dry. It's too dry. It's too waster. It's too all linear. You will need a crack. You're right. You can drink a whole bottle. Yeah, no. Without anything. I like it. But now that you say that, yeah, that's true. Right. And that's what I kind of would like to do. I mean... A little bit of sand in the mouth at the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, if you're pouring this,
00:47:53
Speaker
with an appetizer, if you're using it with food. I don't like to use my best line for food. I think sometimes the food can actually make that mid-pop. You're distracted by, if you put fat with this, and a dark grilled meat, it would accentuate where this is high blood. We should do, coming up with these different ideas.
00:48:18
Speaker
should try to come up with an entire episode on what should be the underpinnings of food pairings. How do you think about food pairings? Right. We can do that. Oh, yeah. That's a whole thing. It would be fun. And then we could go through some of the samples and just you could talk through. This is why I would pick this kind of food pairing for this and connect the dots.
Comparing and Contrasting Wines
00:48:43
Speaker
Do you get a little piece of charred toast on this on the finish? I think of a burnt toast. I mean, really black.
00:48:50
Speaker
Please hold while I take the records. Well, yeah, yeah, like a little bit of like char bitterness. Yeah. And and just how dry it finishes. Yes. So you go with that with with with like a nice piece of clay meat with that creamy, you know, nice moist center with that
00:49:19
Speaker
edge, that burnt edge will get crisp. So the meat will pick up the mid-palette, yet the burnt parts will pick up the predominant point of this. Oh yeah, and it matches on the nose too. Yes. Don't give away the farm. No, but you got to be excited about that. So when people say, would you recommend this wine? And then that's where I get it. What are you doing? Yeah, maybe. For what? Maybe, right?
00:49:50
Speaker
All right. All right. So we'll call that entry-level cab. By the way, I don't, not cab, entry-level Bordeaux. Same producer. The same producer. I don't know whether this works, but we're just going to show it to the camera just to make sure. Château la fortune from Margaux. So this is our baby Margaux. Yes. From Lowell. From Lowell. So nothing but the best-level from Lowell, by the way. I'm not slamming Lowell. No.
00:50:21
Speaker
You used to be deeply invested in Lowell. So first tell me this is something, and I'm only asking the question because I honestly don't know the answer. Give me an explanation of what a margot is. Margot is a place, inference, with a very long lineage of famous properties that really created the market, established
00:50:50
Speaker
the industry. This is our paradigm of what we think.
00:50:54
Speaker
or what we call good ranch wine. There's some science behind it because, again, hundreds upon hundreds of years of figuring out which vineyard's facing, what direction, what soil and acidity levels and subsoils and blah, blah, blah. So is Margo a region? Yes. Like Bordeaux? Yeah. Margo is in Bordeaux. OK. So that's what I wanted to know. Yes. So Cote d'Rone is a region. Right.
00:51:24
Speaker
Uh, is that south? Yeah, south. Okay. East of it is like a Margaux, if you will. Okay. It's a very high end region within Cote d'Or, within Cote d'Or. Okay. Exactly. So same, you burgundy, same way, you know. Okay. Same, same concept there.
00:51:43
Speaker
So, and each region has their little specialty or their flair to it, or you know, it's merlot dominant, they do great merlot, they do great cab, this merlot exudes this kind of fruit, this, you know, that type of thing. And they've got it down to a science. And then it becomes, you know, which first growth do you like? You know, it's based on what, basically what flavor profile you just lean to, not that one's better than the other. Okay. So.
00:52:13
Speaker
Give us a quick rundown on the Bordeaux region, what grapes do we get?
00:52:33
Speaker
Is there, so like with Margo, is there a, is this a blend? Is it some specific? No, no. I mean, they are allowed to use that. Right. And over history, it changes. It changes. They, the Sebastian change, you know, this or that, uh, certain houses have a reputation for only doing this and that type of thing. And that, again, that lineage history, uh, will give you just their character. That's what you come to love. So baby Margo.
00:53:01
Speaker
Just because it's cheap, we don't know what to think of. Right, it's generally from, you know, this is a general style from the region. Again, and I don't, this is where I don't, this is where I don't put some, because, oh my god, I mean, first group, second group, third group.
00:53:15
Speaker
That's too much. The level I play at? Yeah. Do you like this? Do you like it? Do you not? If you like this, here's some other things you can research. Yeah, and if you like this, maybe you like this style, so you need to start climbing up the ladder at more and more expensive wines and experience even better. Or maybe other regions if you're really new, that type of thing.
00:53:36
Speaker
So yeah, but if you like this style of wine, I would say, for example, if you like this style of wine, there's a region in Italy that makes Bordeaux style wines. That means it speaks to this, so yeah, France has a certain history and character that you refer to, a Bordeaux style Italian wine. So it exudes qualities that are signature profile notes from this region.
00:54:01
Speaker
Okay, but then you can you can get really nerd out with all the levels of gross. Yeah, I don't want to know I don't do I mean, I don't want to just want to drink. Yeah All right, so and they just right on the nose would you know, it is it is pretty I mean, you can definitely tell you drink portal. Yeah. Oh, yeah No, it's it's it's smells delicious. Yeah so it's it's
00:54:24
Speaker
very different than the last one that we had. It's bigger, richer on the nose. We can smell an oak regimen in it. To me, it smells like there's less funk and more of that. More oak. I don't know. It's 2019, softer canons.
00:54:55
Speaker
You can pick out more fruit components. They get better quality fruit. You can get more out of the fruit. You're getting more out of the fruit now, aren't you? Yeah. I am also getting the... I'm getting more of it. Like, we talked... beginning, middle, and end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Three parts to the story. The middle is there. I feel like...
00:55:23
Speaker
it's threatening to die already to me disagree on that one the last one was dying this one believe it well that's what french wine is it's not in your face it's not it's more restrained and really tight
Reflecting on Personal Wine Preferences
00:55:41
Speaker
in you know it's that's true and i and i i agree with that like my experience of it is that that but
00:55:51
Speaker
this delivers so much right up front and it's beautiful, but it kind of, I don't know, kind of goes thin on me. I don't know. I get what you're saying. Yeah, but that could be just, that's what it's supposed to be. That's what it's supposed to be. Yeah. Okay. You know, having known you and your pal, it's like myself included.
00:56:21
Speaker
for Italian Spanish wines. This paradigm that you've set out, just because you don't, oh, you don't like the most famous wines in the world? No, I don't. But the good news is there are thousands of other options. It's a big planet. I'm not a big fan of French wine. I know that I would never get a five-star restaurant accommodation for this. But our friend Ken and his wife, they would love this.
00:56:52
Speaker
I think. That's tied to an experience they had in France. Well, yeah, but they also, you know, it's, they know what they like. But then again, I, everything, they rely on it. I mean, I've given them just as many Italian reds. Right. No, I know. So that's true, too. Well, you're, you're slowly expanding their, their experience. But yeah, I would say that, yes, this, this is a good French wine. It's a good Bordeaux. If you like that style,
00:57:17
Speaker
quit spending more money and expensive more doughs because you're never going to be more impressed. Well, this is good for the money. But if I spend $100, will I like it more? Probably not. This is because it represents. So what is this price point? About $50. OK. Yeah. $50, $50. And if you spend $100, are you talking first growth, maybe $2,000 a bottle now? Yeah.
00:57:45
Speaker
That's dumb. It's not going to teach me. I mean, profile wise, this is the Margo. Delicios. But now this one, I think you'll like more. You think so? Yeah. Okay. Because... It's got a lot more fruit going on for it. Okay.
00:58:05
Speaker
Weird. I mean, we have so much to talk about. You call me fruity, Paul? Yes. No, you don't like fruity. You like more fruit than that, but you don't like fruity. This would be the NAPA version of Bordeaux. You know how you slam a NAPA membrane to fruit forward and blah, blah, blah. This is the NAPA version of Bordeaux, but I tend to like it because it's still got the oral work here with just more fruit. Yeah, but it's also 2016.
00:58:27
Speaker
Oh, that's gonna round up those edges. Burying the lead here. Yeah, yeah. Okay. But the fruit's gonna pop through more. Not because it's oily. Really? No, it's not because it's oily. No, no. This isn't gonna, we'll get more fruit because it's oily. This is just a different house and a different spot. Okay. Lovely. And this is our final wine. We're not here to get drunk. No, we're just gonna, this is what we do, and I'll make it later, but. Have a good evening.
00:58:57
Speaker
See you later, Tom. All right. I didn't reach her. She's wanted to, you know, usually when I do these, when I do come, I come well prepared. But literally I told the nice little French man, it looked like that bastard to that I was leaving. Um, so well, also like this is how we always do it. You don't bring us tech sheet every time. No, but I usually, but I'm usually a no, the backstory of some of these wines a little better than, well, it's fresh for you. You just met the guy. Yeah. So yeah, this, this is pretty consistent with how we do this.
00:59:27
Speaker
See, now this has got that little bit of Italian funk now, more so than the other one. Oh, yeah, you see? Yeah, it's gonna have a little more fruit, like a little spice. Yep, yep. Mm-hmm. Hi, guys. What's going on? No, we're good. I'm sure Chris wants to be a guest.
00:59:58
Speaker
Yeah,
Concluding Thoughts and Future Plans
00:59:59
Speaker
okay, so this one, I like that you said it's more Italian. I mean, they've been doing it longer than the French. There's a 2016. But again, again,
01:00:28
Speaker
Oh, wow. This has got 10 more years to go. Yeah, I was going to say, this is a baby. But it's not going to get any more vibrant on it. No. So if you like that flavor and taste, it's rustic. It is. I mean, it is rustic. So tell me what this actually is. Camera look. It's a camera look. Camera look, 50-50. OK. From the Omidak.
01:00:56
Speaker
region, another sub-region within Bordeaux. Oh, Medoc. Which the district manager called during inventory today, hot medic. Why can't they just speak American? Beautiful notes.
01:01:23
Speaker
Italia is more robust. I mean, I'm not saying I'm in the French, but this is what French point is to me. And I think... No, and what I was going to say is, on the nose, I'm expecting something different. Right. More of the northern... You get that nose and I'm going... But I do like it. Piedmont is it? Right. Okay.
01:01:49
Speaker
Not that we're supposed to rank anything, but. It's like, what do you want to go home with? Yeah. Is probably the best question. Right. Right. And I think I would go, my preference for these would probably be the Margaux. Really? This should be second. You like the Margaux? Just because I would buy this. Right. And then I would let it sit for a little bit and see if I liked it again. I would do the earth thing where I just like pop a bottle every six months.
01:02:18
Speaker
and taste it. I would say try this tomorrow. Oh, okay. Take the bottle. We always do. Yeah. If you like it now, if you want to see if it ages, sit down on the counter and see if you like it tomorrow morning. Speaking of that, I'm going to do a throwback to last week where you said that. Oh, the kapana, the montasino. We did that.
01:02:46
Speaker
My daughter opened one, I went out, my daughter opened one bottle and then we went on a drive and we brought one closed bottle and so we had the side by side on Friday night and I did it blind and there were four of us that tasted it.
01:03:09
Speaker
And I know, based on what we tasted last week, I knew what the right answer was. Right, right, right. But I did it too. Again. Again. And the freshly opened bottle was better. It was like, it blew my mind. Like, it was totally opposite of what happened. Right. Like the one that was open for a day, half the bottle left.
01:03:39
Speaker
It was dead. Interesting. It was totally dead. And it was not at all what we tasted last week. Yet we did the same experiment. I can't explain it. It was so good. It was like fucking amazing. And Maloney did me the same thing. Right. And he tried it the next morning. He did the next afternoon. So he called me and said, fucking right. We all looked at each other. And I was like, I would say it if I didn't agree.
01:04:03
Speaker
Everybody's right. Like the freshly opened one was better. This one, like it died. So it also went on a six and a half hour car ride. So maybe it got bounced around too much. I mean, sometimes you say it wasn't gentle. I mean, yeah, I mean, that could be, well, it does get bottle shocked. Things happen with bottle shock. That's real thing.
01:04:25
Speaker
I'm just saying it was interesting. But we're two for two on people trying it the next day and saying, oh my god. No, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For sure. So the only thing different was the bouncy, bouncy. But I actually had to tell them these are all younger people. Yeah. Interesting. You're right. It's not. It wasn't as good. Yeah. And that's fine to say. That's fair to say.
01:04:50
Speaker
So this is what we do. We just hang out, talk about wine, random people show up. We're going to do this as often as we want to. It's really for fun. And if anybody ever wants to listen to it, that's cool too.
01:05:11
Speaker
Yeah, so under the influence episode one. I'm gonna be finished. We're gonna move on Hopefully next week. We'll get together and do another one. Yeah, and if you want to learn more about this guy and what he can teach you or present to you Paulie on wine calm and
01:05:34
Speaker
Is the best best way to learn it is it is it's fun. I have fun. It's I have fun doing it and they you know and people They keep calling me back. Yeah, right exactly. Yeah, exactly. Well, yeah, this is fun. All right. Yeah, we're Somehow an hour and six minutes goes like that. We'll just just Proofing the pudding. We got a couple other ones, but we're not gonna we're not gonna open them But I do have an Italian
01:06:04
Speaker
Based on, you're such a tease. Based on Bordeaux varietals. So this is a cab dominant Italian one. Okay. Okay. Okay. Maybe next week? Maybe next week. Always got to leave them wanting more. Signing off for this first episode. See y'all later.