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155. Embodying Gratitude: A Somatic Journey of Grieving with guest Tatiana Zamir
181 Plays1 year ago
TATIANA ZAMIR is an interdisciplinary performance artist and trauma-informed movement facilitator who has been walking a path of evolution, transformation, and deep personal inquiry her whole life. Zamir studied and performed as a dancer and choreographer in the World Arts & Cultures Department at UCLA and developed her natural skills in the healing arts at IPSB Life Energy Institute. From her base in Los Angeles, her work has taken her to Bulgaria, Argentina, Namibia, Zambia, Senegal, Mexico, Cuba, and Bali. As both a healer and an artist, Tatiana holds a uniquely compassionate space, which catalyzes transformation and aids people around the world to embody their joy and live unapologetic, creatively-fulfilled lives — whether in her Afro-Joy Dance classes, her performance art, or movement therapy-based healing arts workshops and retreats.
To connect with Tatiana:
Website: www.tatianazamir.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tatianazamir/
Instagram post of her grandmother sharing her last words: https://www.instagram.com/p/CpncxZiPR3w/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
Contact Kendra if you'd like to be a guest ont he podcast: griefgratitudepodcast@gmail.com
www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
Topics we talk about:
· Tatiana Zamir shares her close relationship with her grandmother: Tatiana Zamir talks about how her grandmother, Lisa Montel, was her best friend , who raised her with love and exposed her to the arts. She also shares how her grandmother was a Baha'i and an actress who quit her career to serve the community.
· Tatiana Zamir reflects on how her grandmother's passing has affected her: Tatiana Zamir says that she did not feel a lot of grief or sadness after her grandmother's passing yet, but rather gratitude and joy for their relationship. She says that she feels her grandmother's presence and support even more now, and that she honors her by wearing her clothes and jewelry, and continuing her work.
· Tatiana Zamir talks about her healing arts workshops and retreats: she explains how she uses movement therapy and a technique called vesseling to help people heal from trauma and access their intuition. She shares that she hosts healing arts workshops and retreats that are somatic-based and integrate different creative tools and themes, such as healing mother wounds.
· Tatiana Zamir shares how she healed from her divorce: she reveals that leaving her marriage of 12 years was the hardest thing she ever did in her adulthood, and that she went through a depression and a lot of fear and pain. She says that one of the things that helped her was embodying gratitude and affirming what she wanted to manifest in her life.
- Tatiana Zamir shares how her dynamics with her mom have changed since her grandmothers transition. She talks about how they've worked on their relationship for many years and how it's evolved.
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Transcript
Affirmation Transformation Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
came up with this, um, I created this, this technique called affirmation transformation, where it's kind of like, okay, what is coming up? What is coming up for me? And how do I transmit that first through an affirmation and then through the body? So for example, when I'm like, where am I going to live? How am I going to support myself this year? And then I will say, thank you. Thank you God. Thank you universe. Thank you. Most great spirit for.
00:00:30
Speaker
providing the most perfect transitional home for me to ground and build and heal. Thank you. Thank you. And I would be so grateful for it before it came because I knew that I had to raise my vibration into that gratitude to help support calling that in and experiencing that.
Podcast and Guest Introduction
00:01:00
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:23
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:46
Speaker
Yay, so excited to be back recording and excited to have the guest I have on today. Tatiana Zamir is an interdisciplinary performance artist and trauma informed movement facilitator who has been walking a path of evolution, transformation, and deep personal inquiry her entire life.
00:02:10
Speaker
And she and I have known each other for a long time, but we haven't seen each other in probably the same amount of time, no, longer, like probably 20 years since I've seen you, Tati. Too damn long, yes. Too long.
00:02:25
Speaker
And it's interesting because we've been wanting to have this conversation for a while, but it's like, you know how we always say it's like perfect timing, God's planning timing or life.
Reconnecting and Movement Therapy
00:02:36
Speaker
And it just worked out that this is exactly when it needed to happen. So I mean, when you had first reached out, I feel like it was towards the beginning of the pandemic, you know, or if
00:02:47
Speaker
Am I wrong? Or was it? No, you're right. And obviously, there was a lot going on for everybody. But honey, so much has happened since so we have so much more to talk about now. Like, we would have one thing on the agenda. Now we have so many directions we can go as far as grieving and loss and change. So am I. So I am just so happy that
00:03:07
Speaker
it's finally aligned. And, you know, even though we've been living across, you know, the country since we first met, it's just been nice to stay in touch and so sweet to have this conversation with you today, and we're looking forward to it. I'm so excited. So let's chat more about where you live, tell us about the work you do, and then we'll dive into talking about your most recent grief journey, and then we'll go from there. Yeah, sounds good. Yeah.
00:03:37
Speaker
I do a lot of things that involve movement and healing in a nutshell.
00:03:43
Speaker
movement therapist facilitator. I basically host healing arts workshops and retreats. And there have a very like somatic base element. So there's a lot of movement therapy involved, but also a lot of other things that I integrate into those spaces. So between that and then being a performance artist and interdisciplinary and multidisciplinary, because I have a lot of things that I
00:04:11
Speaker
Integrate into my personal work when I create like I'm a writer. I'm a dancer So I there's different ways that I put these different Creative aspects together and tools together, but then I also like to collaborate a lot with other artists So sometimes I'll produce a show and I collaborate with other other Artists and or sometimes I join other people's projects. So basically between my
00:04:33
Speaker
I'm a performance artist and a somatic healer and I've learned how to just keep it simple because I could do a million things and have done and lived a million lives but right now that's basically what's going on. And in a very young age you have lived a million lives in this very young time of your existence on this planet at
Trauma and Healing in Art
00:04:54
Speaker
least.
00:04:54
Speaker
Yeah, it's amazing how much also our life just molds who we become and the different aspects, how it translates into what it is we do, and in your case, in your arts and in your expression in that way of how much it's informed, how you do, because you focus a lot on trauma, correct, and the healing.
00:05:18
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I feel like that is a huge theme just in my own personal creative work that I develop. Like there's usually something, whether it's a very personal thing or kind of a larger theme, that's also maybe personal. Yeah, that's definitely a huge theme. It's, you know, whether I'm
00:05:38
Speaker
And some of these themes often overlap in between my creative, you know, interdisciplinary or artist performance artwork and my healing arts workshops. Like, for example, one theme that has come up in the past and I know will probably be a lifetime theme is
00:05:56
Speaker
healing from mother wounds. So I have poems and just in 2020, I created a dance film with a dear friend and it was around healing my birth story and around my mother. And so I wrote these poems and created this dance film around healing mother wounds, but I have workshops that are around healing mother wounds for other people who want to dive deeper into that work. So I find that a lot of times the themes overlap.
00:06:24
Speaker
It does make an impact, the fact that you've had your own life experiences as you're helping navigate someone else's. This aspect of empathy, of course, that comes into play. Just like intellectualizing how you're helping someone. You're not like, this is what I learned about it. I think it is nice when you have an experience you can share. It's also nice when you can
00:06:47
Speaker
know that you have an experience, but also know enough to hold for others, right? Because obviously everyone has such a unique experience, but sometimes you can find a lot of overlap there and resonance. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It's never like, I understand what you're going through. No, no, I can. I can't really truly understand what somebody else is going through. Like, as you said, everybody's experience is unique.
00:07:10
Speaker
Now, let's talk about your relationship with your grandma because she is your most recent grief experience, her passing and had the honor of meeting your grandmother when I lived in Los Angeles of when I knew you and she's an exceptional woman.
Influence of Grandmother
00:07:31
Speaker
Tell us the dynamics says she raised you for part of your life, correct?
00:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, my grandmother played like a huge, huge role in raising me. She was my best friend. She was in many ways like my mother as well for the ways that my mother wasn't able to be present, whether that was physically or emotionally. My grandmother just really, really stepped up to the plate and loved me with her whole heart.
00:08:01
Speaker
One story that she would tell me is that when I was like three or something, I think I was very young and that she was working, my mom was working, and I was in some kind of like daycare facility, but it was like at someone's home.
00:08:22
Speaker
she came in early one day and she said that she just saw me kind of like wandering around and I just looked so sad and I was by myself and as soon as I saw her I just lit up and I just ran to her and I hugged her as I would we both would always get so excited just seeing each other
00:08:42
Speaker
And she checked my milk bottle and it was like sour. She was just like, oh, my baby is not being cared for here. And something about that experience made her be like, you know what? I need to and I want to show up for her more. So she quit. I think she had more of a full-time job. And she quit her job, got more part-time work so that she could be more present for me and help raise me.
00:09:11
Speaker
She was broke. She was really broke. I didn't really know how broke we were because I was filled with so much love. So much love. I remember she had this one car. It was so broke down. The passenger side door wouldn't even shut most of the time. I had to sometimes hold it.
00:09:33
Speaker
clothes. And I remember I think even as a kid, I was like, I don't know about this. Like, I don't know what this is. I felt safe. I mean, I was buckled in and everything. But like, all I'm saying is it was a little real. It was a little real. But also, like, I like I only remember that looking back a little bit, but I never felt deprived when I was with her. You know, I felt nothing but love. I mean, just, we spent so much time together. She would take me to
00:10:00
Speaker
museums and the ballet and put me into dance classes and go to the park every single day, especially if I wasn't in school or it was summertime or after. She just poured into me and I think when I was six or seven, I remember we were in the kitchen and she was cooking and I just looked at her and I was like,
00:10:19
Speaker
Will you marry me? And she just laughed, you know, they looked at me so sweetly. And you know, I don't remember her exact words. Of course, she was like, I love you, honey, like we'll always be together, you know, I don't know that we'll get married, but like we are, you know, like spiritually and energetically, like, it's you and me, baby, it's you and me.
00:10:39
Speaker
Oh, that is so sweet. Because I've heard of that like with kids, girls thinking they're gonna marry their dads or things like that, right? But I had never seen I had never heard that with their grandma. Yeah, whatever this thing is, where you just commit to forever. I want that with you.
Artistic Development and Baha'i Influence
00:11:00
Speaker
I was like, I want that.
00:11:01
Speaker
That is the sweetest relationship. Now, you mentioned she signed you up that she would take you to ballet classes and she exposed you then to a lot of the arts. So tell us about her backstory. Was she an artist herself that then she saw that need, let's say, to start exposing you to the arts? Because to some extent, who knows where you'd be today had you not started this journey of already
00:11:30
Speaker
starting dance classes and things like that at a nerdy 100%. Yeah, I mean, yeah, she got into acting very young. Her father had gotten a job in Peru when she was in her early 20s. And long story short, she got discovered there and someone like wanted her to be in some
00:11:49
Speaker
play and then she got into films immediately. She did her first film and Peru eventually moved to Los Angeles after her father passed who she was very close to and became a pretty like consistent actress. Like she got a lot of work. I honestly think she would have been, I think she definitely would have went way further had she not decided that it wasn't the path she wanted to stay on after she
00:12:15
Speaker
found the Baha'i Faith and wanted to just do more community service work. And she ended up working with Mayor Tom Bradley for decades and doing a lot of like arts programs for inner city youth and things like that. But to go back, she had a love for the arts. She was an actress. And I would say, I don't know if she ever claimed to be a model, but I mean, she was definitely a model. There, if you Google Lisa Montel, everyone, and trust me, you want to because this woman is
00:12:44
Speaker
stunning, like she's just gorgeous. Like, yeah, so she just, she always had an appreciation for the arts. And for sure, I mean, she put me into dance classes when I was young, she also
00:13:01
Speaker
And then my mother helped put me in the Baha'i workshop, you know, because she had a connection with that, which I know people may not know what that is. Yes, share what it was because it started, the dance workshop started in Los Angeles and the
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I might not do a full accurate beginning foundation, but I'll try real quickly. But basically, Oscar de Groot and his wife at the time, Freddie, they had started a space that was just a safe space for youth to come together so that they weren't out in the streets with nothing to do. Let's get together. Let's be creative. Let's
00:13:40
Speaker
have acting classes, let's dance, let's create. And then they would create dances and songs and raps and that were inspired by the principles of the Baha'i faith. And so that started in the 70s. My mother was a part of that when she was younger. It was still very much around and alive when I was younger. So she was like, yeah, I want to put my daughter in that. And that was life changing for me on so many levels. I didn't even really know that that was my
00:14:10
Speaker
My path at the time, even though my grandmother put me in dance classes and even being in the Baha'i workshop, I mean, I just love to create and I love to perform. And I also got to practice and producing skills with that because as I got older and I was in the adult version of that, the One World Dance Company, we would travel around to different countries every summer. For many years I did that and I was often voted to be one of the coordinators.
00:14:35
Speaker
and sometimes the artistic director. So I was in this role at a very young age, getting to practice and develop these skills with people that I love, with principles that I believe in.
00:14:51
Speaker
my grandmother played a huge role in that. And I just have to give a shout out to my mom because she's always like, don't forget my role in this. So I'm like, you right,
Grandmother's Health and Legacy
00:15:00
Speaker
momma, you right. And it's beautiful, the evolution, of course. That's one of the topics we were originally going to talk about when I first had reached out to you was this dynamic of you and your mom and the
00:15:14
Speaker
the evolution of you healing the mother wounds and the beautiful relationship you both have. So where you guys are now and how you both played a part also of being with the trio, the three amigos, you and your mom and your grandma were all together in the last few days, of course, of your grandmother and months. So if you can jump to that
00:15:41
Speaker
the circumstances of your grandmother's health and just her journey and how you all were in that journey together.
00:15:54
Speaker
Yeah so I would say I mean my grandmother she passed when she was 89 so she was up there but I would also say she took really good care of herself and ate really well and just always into holistic healing and just
00:16:14
Speaker
health and healing is something we always connected on. Like we were always talking about, have you heard about the such and such? And do you know if you take this, it does this for you. And like, you know, and like every time I saw her, she had like some new things. She was like, you know, do this. And even if it was like this little massage thing for your head, she's like, and do it like 95 times and then you'll heal this part of your body. Like she always had like all these and I was like, okay, we're, yeah, we're like twins. But so she was, and she could not stand medication. Like she just couldn't stand it. Like she,
00:16:44
Speaker
there were certain medications she needed for her, you know, blood, blah, blah, blah, all these things. And oftentimes, it was an ongoing like, grandma, like, you can't be just deciding when you're going to take this, like, you have to be consistent with this. Otherwise, it can cause other challenges. And she was just, she was very stubborn and very like, I'm going to do what I want to do. But but you know, and I'm bringing that up.
00:17:05
Speaker
I might jump around a little bit, but bringing that up to say that in her final hours over the last couple of days, the way that she begged and yearned for medication, it was like, oh, you're really in a lot of pain. So clearly, there's something going on because she's always doing her best to not take it. But basically, she would have a hip surgery here and a knee replacement there.
00:17:31
Speaker
Definitely had some things going on but things that like seemed to get taken care of for the most part and for the and for the most part she was fine and then She always had a bit of neuropathy over the years I was developing where she couldn't quite feel sometimes like her feet or like she would get some numbness But maybe two weeks before she passed I might not be extremely accurate with this but somewhere around there and
00:17:56
Speaker
she started to get like full numbness in her like left leg at times where she just like couldn't walk all of a sudden or couldn't feel and then it would go away and we'd take her to the hospital and like they would you know I don't know do x-rays and stuff but just never saw anything so we didn't really know what was going on but it got to the point where she was in a hospital like in care for
00:18:22
Speaker
full week at least, where they were just trying to figure out what was going on and just care for her. And then basically a doctor had come to check her at one point and realized her whole leg was blue and they rushed her to the hospital. And that morning
00:18:42
Speaker
Basically, the doctors were like, there's two major issues that we have found with her and there's a good chance that she's going to pass today. So it was like out of nowhere, like she was pretty much fine. And then out of nowhere, they were like, basically she had a
00:19:01
Speaker
blood clot near her like so adds air area that was cutting off the circulation, you know, into her leg. And so that was one problem was that like, they were going to maybe have to like amputate her leg or something like there was one surgery and then there was a whole another surgery.
00:19:21
Speaker
And forgive me, because it's honestly just been a lot. So I don't even always remember how to articulate the scientific thing about what happened. But I know that she has some kind of opening in her digestive tract that they needed to close that. Otherwise, it would have been like she would have been leaking over.
00:19:40
Speaker
being able to use the bathroom properly, it's like she would have been basically, I think it's called sepsis or something. Oh, sepsis? Yes, sepsis. Yes, I think it's sepsis. Although that's what they get in the blood. That's an infection. Well, because I think it would have leaked, and so then it would have caught a sepsis. So they were like, we need to do these intense
00:20:05
Speaker
two extreme major surgeries she would have needed and basically we asked her if she wanted to do it and she was very much on that day like at first she was you know she's a little drugged up she was like I'm fine whatever like whatever you guys want to do and I'm like grandma this is your life we're not making this decision for you you know let's let's tune in together like we wanted to break it down because they were basically like
00:20:29
Speaker
it's not likely, you know, some of the feedback we got was like, these are really intense surgeries. It's not necessarily likely that she'll make it through. And even if she does, the post care is gonna be so intense that like, it's just gonna, you know, the quality of life for a while could be really rough. And basically in the end, she was like, you know what, I'm good. Like, I've lived a wonderful life. Like if today is the day, so be it, you know? And she was just so happy that,
00:20:55
Speaker
We were all together on this day that she was going to be one of her last days on earth because we didn't know if she was going to pass that day or the next day. But it ended up being her last waking day and then she did pass like I think a day or two after that, like a day and a half after. But my mother definitely, she's been living with my mom for
00:21:18
Speaker
So long. My mom's been caring for her in general and so grateful for that and then was just really showing up as my grandmother was sick and ill and you know, just being such an advocate with her care when she was alive, which makes such a huge difference.
00:21:35
Speaker
It was definitely a bittersweet day because obviously it was like kind of out of nowhere, but I know I felt extremely grateful to have had that kind of closure, like to know that she was going to pass and to be able to spend those hours with her.
00:21:51
Speaker
I definitely highly recommend people watching the videos that I captured of her last day if anyone's interested because they're really, really special. Most people who see them are like, I've never seen anything like this, like when people are transitioning, the kind of joy
00:22:07
Speaker
the grace and the joy that she had. So I have those videos on my Instagram. Tatiana is a mirror and it's just a photo of me and my grandmother, if anyone wants to like check those out. But the way that she was so happy that day, the way that she was like laughing with the doctors and
00:22:27
Speaker
praying with them. And one of her favorite things on this planet was the Baha'i faith. It was just the thing that lit up her heart and lit up her life besides me and my mom. And so she was sharing prayers. And she was like, do you know what the Baha'i faith says? Baha'u'llah says, death is a messenger of joy. Why does thou grieve? We don't need to be sad about this. I'm about to go out the best time of my life. I'm about to get rid of this cage over here and just be free.
00:22:55
Speaker
And so it was just really inspiring and beautiful and just made me so happy to see her in such a beautiful space.
00:23:05
Speaker
knowing during her last days. And my grandma had a lot of ambition, just a lot. I remember when she had her hip surgery years ago, and I was like, Grandma, how are you doing? And she's like, I'm fine. I just want to get back home so I can get back to work. I've got to finish my book, and I'll have the CD that I'm collaborating with, the musician. And I would just be like, damn, if I had half of the ambition my grandma had, I'd probably be going real far in life. But she was just so amazing.
00:23:32
Speaker
And even up until her last days at 89, she was writing a new edition of her book, I think it's called, Behind a New Vision. And she just was like, I need to tell you how to finish the work that I'm doing. And so anytime we had a moment,
00:23:50
Speaker
if we didn't have to move her to another place or another room or things like that. I was just recording with her all day and she was just giving me instructions. I'm like, okay. And then you need to call the published company. And then when they contact you and then you need to call the NSA because I'm waiting for them to give me the edits back. So you need to let them know to send it to you. And so she was just all day giving me instructions about how I can carry through this very important big dream of hers. But then she was also going through the,
00:24:17
Speaker
Okay, and then in in the closet to the left thing and then you know, and then my higher rings myself Those are for you Tati. So there you open the second drawer, you know So she just like giving me instruction all day. I'm like how like just it was just amazing You know, she just was speaking and literally all day that anytime we had a moment to actually talk when we weren't like
00:24:40
Speaker
needing to change her or care for her in some way. She just, she just recorded all day and then it wasn't until, and then I think around 11pm or something, she had like finished
00:24:53
Speaker
telling me everything. And I just said, I love you. I love you so much, Grandma. I'm just so grateful for our relationship to have spent this day with you. You lived an amazing life. She said sweet things to me. And the moment she was done telling me her wishes and her final words, she closed her eyes and she never opened them.
00:25:21
Speaker
Amazing. When this is how many hours after the doctor said because he said she might Yeah, I think we found out like I want to say we found out around like
00:25:34
Speaker
It was somewhere in the middle of the day. Like, honestly, it's a little blurry right now. But was not a full 24 hours? No, no, it was the same day. So I think we came around 11 or 12. My mom was at the hospital first. She had found out. She called me crying, like, you need to get to the hospital immediately. And I already knew, like, you know. Tati.
00:25:57
Speaker
That was so fast. So fast. And what you just shared of everything that she said and even the videos you posted, you would think that it was in a matter of days of everything that you're sharing of these hours of how much you did and that she shared in those hours. Yeah. Yeah.
Spiritual Connection After Loss
00:26:20
Speaker
that wow. Yeah, I know. I mean, and even though it was fast, I just I know that for some people, they don't even have those moments. They don't even have hours, you know, people just can pass out of nowhere and or you're not there or they pass and you can't get there in time. And so it was fast. And at the same time, I'm so grateful that we had those those hours together because they were very, very special. And I feel like, yeah,
00:26:47
Speaker
And you all radiate in the videos that you shared on Instagram is like you all three of you just smile. You could see the love. You could see the joy amidst the sadness. And that's the thing with grief. It's like you can hold both these emotions in the same space. And it's and it's OK. It's they're not removed from each other. Joy and grief and joy and sadness can live amidst the same. Yes.
00:27:16
Speaker
space and we sometimes forget that. 100%. I mean, yes. I mean, to be honest, um, one of the, one of the things I was processing, um, or having a hard time being with was that I didn't feel like I had enough grief or sadness when my grandmother passed. Like given how close we were and given how much I love her, it was like,
00:27:45
Speaker
something about the way she transitioned and just focusing on the light and the love of our relationship was just really carrying me. And I don't know if this is true, but it does resonate with me. I had a friend who said, you know, I have noticed people have a harder time with loss when there was a lot of unfinished business and a lot of pain. It's almost like
00:28:09
Speaker
those wounds get erupted right when someone because then you're not just losing the person it's like all this other stuff comes up and I think because my grandmother and I were at so much peace with each other and there wasn't unfinished business or unsaid words so I think that's a part of it. I also know that I'm just
00:28:30
Speaker
as one of my intuitive healers said to me, because I did ask her about this. I was like, why am I okay? Why do I feel okay? And I know everyone has their own journey. Yeah. And she gave you permission, just the way she herself was so ready and how she exited this world and her acceptance of it. It brings you peace as well too, because you were with that. Okay. Yeah. What did your intuitive healers play? Well, I'll just say, I mean, so yeah, I mean, she said,
00:28:59
Speaker
She shared a story. She often responds sometimes with like sharing stories, which is helpful. But she just said, you know, when my mom passed, she was like, I was a wreck. I was a hot mess. She was very young. And she was like, you know, I was crying all the time, dealing with my loss. She said, my sister, on the other hand, just seemed fine and dandy. Like it was just another day. And it was just really interesting to see how she was kind of just moving through the world as if this huge loss didn't happen.
00:29:24
Speaker
And then she said five years later, her sister came and started sobbing to her and said, Julie, mom passed. And then she was in this deep grieving and it was five years later. And she said, my sister is a slow burn and so are you.
00:29:45
Speaker
And I know that about myself because I can hold in a lot and then it can take me years later to be like, oh, I have so much pain and sadness around this thing that I've been holding on to for so long. So I imagine that actually I think I am going to have a certain form of grief that's going to happen later for me. It's just not, I'm just not someone that always
00:30:08
Speaker
I'm like, I'm at Capricorn. Like we got business to handle. I'm like, we got to handle the logistics. We got to like pack this stuff. We got to redo this room. You know, I'm like, whatever. And it's not that I don't have my moments. It's not that I haven't had sadness and it's not that I haven't had moments of, but
00:30:25
Speaker
Honestly, it has been, it's been sweeter than I could have ever imagined Kendra, it's been sweeter than I could have ever imagined because as close as me and my grandmother was and as much as I loved her, I mean, literally probably the only nightmare I remember as a child was losing my grandmother. I remember waking up in the middle of the night sobbing at the thought of losing her. It always felt unbearable to think about that. And so when I lost her and I was like,
00:30:55
Speaker
but then it was like i could feel her so closely like literally i feel her i hear her we can talk to each other um and then my grandmother would just fly as hell and she like left me all of this amazing clothes and i don't know how they fit me because she was so many sizes
00:31:12
Speaker
And some of the things she had when she was younger, somehow- She kept all of that? Yeah. Oh, wait. She was a hoarder. I mean, listen, I love to be real. I mean, one of the reasons it took us so long to pack up all her shit because we had way too many things. That's another story. But I will just say.
00:31:27
Speaker
I, one of my friends was like a fashion person. So she came over. We like were trying on all these clothes and we were just in awe of how many of my grandmother's clothes fit me perfectly, like perfectly. And we had similar style and like, so I have this whole fly ass war jokes. And one of the ways that I've just been staying in contact with her is just
00:31:47
Speaker
Wearing her jewelry every day wearing her a piece of her clothes wearing her jet like and then like it's weird It's almost like actually after she passed in some ways I almost feel like we're even closer Because instead of like seeing her when I can whether it's once a month or sometimes twice Like I never saw her as much as I would have liked to these last few years even though I made more of an effort But when I was younger
00:32:11
Speaker
we saw each other so much more. But now it's like, I was like, oh, but she's literally with me every day, all day now. Like, I'm listening to her music. I'm, you know, like I said, wearing her things, I'm praying for her. And so like, in some ways, I just almost feel like we're closer than ever. And it's just been, it's been really beautiful.
00:32:36
Speaker
Thank you for sharing all of that as I'm like drying some of these ears. I have like my cheeks hurt, right? From the smile. Right. And then my ears are at the same time. Right. We're like, it is. And which is so what you were just talking about, holding the joy and the grief. Like this is for real. We're really holding that duality together. Yeah.
00:32:57
Speaker
Now, let's let's share regarding then you mentioned your grandmother quoting, I had made death of messenger messenger joy for the Why does that grieve and those words and your belief system, how have they played a part in your grief journey? And how have they held your
00:33:20
Speaker
You know that your space in that in that process as well. You mentioned prayers Yeah, I mean I think because my grandmother was a Baha'i and had these very unique belief systems around death and not just not just
Somatic Healing Techniques
00:33:40
Speaker
I don't know, because you can practice something and you can say you believe in something. I think it's another thing to embody something. I think my grandmother not only believed in these words and in these messages, but she really just embodied it. She felt it deep in her bones and really believed that there was a more joyful and liberating space to occupy that was so much better and sweeter and more heavenly than this earth.
00:34:07
Speaker
I think that, one, seeing the joy that she had in her transition gave me peace and joy, but also believing in the same faith and also having this guidance. It has been a beautiful framework to not be like, it's not to say, of course, I mean, I'm honored and so important to honor the full spectrum of emotions. I'm not saying I'm going to like stuff my sadness or something. That's not the point, but that I don't have to look at this as like,
00:34:36
Speaker
I don't have questions. I'm not like, what happened? Or like, where did she go? And is she okay? Or like, you know, I'm, I'm, I just think that that framework has been like the bones and the structure to hold so much of the joy that is still living, you know, within my spirit and my body as I'm processing her, her loss.
00:34:59
Speaker
Sorry, I'm hearing bliss. I'm hearing bliss. Shake herself. Oh, she was shaking in the background. Yeah, should I say that again? Yes, we've got dogs in the background. Yeah. Over here. I've been having to mute. Yeah, over mine over here on my end.
00:35:16
Speaker
The word you used, a framework. I love that because it's so true. It's a framework when our belief systems create a framework for us to build upon. Now, it doesn't mean that because sometimes we believe in certain things of whatever everybody believes, of whatever happens after we die,
00:35:35
Speaker
that then that means automatically that we're gonna be okay then when somebody dies and that we're just gonna be what would if I believe this like why am I not then acting in this joyful way if it's right right or whatever if that's what you believe no it's a framework and we're still human and we kind of build up on that and then
00:35:53
Speaker
It just helps us and can aid us whatever the beliefs are that each of us may carry, can aid us in that process. And so that's what it's done for you. Now help us then understand other tools that you've used. You've mentioned you're wearing her jewelry, wearing her clothing, being able to talk to her and now carry her with you even on your trips to Bali as you do your retreats. You can carry her with you all the time now.
00:36:21
Speaker
What other tools and how has it influenced also your dancing now as well?
Community's Role in Healing
00:36:29
Speaker
I mean, prayer and meditation is just always a huge tool for me. So I think feeling like one of the ways I've been feeling connection with her is by praying for her, you know, and literally like,
00:36:45
Speaker
And in that meditative state and sometimes I don't have to be meditation I can easily talk to her like we just have a very I can literally feel her spirit and I see her like and but I I Will say I think because of what I mentioned earlier that like I haven't had so much heavy grieving Around my grandmother yet. It may happen when at one point
00:37:13
Speaker
But I will just say in my experience with other forms of loss that I've been navigating, that dancing, not just the act of dancing has always also been a healing tool for me. And that liberates me whether I'm taking a dance class or teaching, but also this like,
00:37:32
Speaker
This beautiful project I've been a part of called Bodies Across Roads with one of my dear best friends is the head spirit of this project, Marina Magallones. And she has really taken me deeper into an artistic practice, a creative practice called vesseling. It's something I've been doing and it's why she invited me into the project because she saw something I did and she was like, oh, you're already doing this thing that I'm interested in going deeper in. And I had no idea
00:38:01
Speaker
how like that it was like a space that needed to be filled in my life. So we've been in creative process the last couple of years and it's really this.
00:38:10
Speaker
There's a lot I could say about it, but the short definition is I just see it as like a way of really being a channel of really letting spirit move through you through and then letting your body Respond to how spirit is moving through you versus like it is a form of improvisation But improvisation feels very different to me improvisation feels like I'm kind of like, oh, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do? Maybe let's go this way you must go that way But that's something is like, you know, I'm going into this deep
00:38:34
Speaker
spiritual sacred place where I get to really almost go into another realm into a portal and so that is one way that I've been healing different forms of loss and grief that I've been experiencing is really doing that combined with a movement therapy method that I created which I'm currently calling release renew technique I don't know if I'm gonna rename that one day but but it's really a way of how do I heal and transmute
00:39:02
Speaker
this pain or this anger and this sadness that's in my spirit body and liberate myself. So between the vesseling technique and then my own movement therapy technique, that's been a huge tool that has been helping me shift in process because
00:39:21
Speaker
You know, as I'm glad that somatic healing has become more of a well known like thing and tool that's been rising over the last few years, but it's something I've been doing forever and just it's been super helpful.
00:39:37
Speaker
And with somatic healing, history wise, it was that very much common in a lot of native cultures in the process of grief was in movement and somatic healing part of- I mean, as far as I know, yes. I think movement in general and dance, yes, it's been a part of like,
00:39:58
Speaker
So many, so many cultures, right? And then I just think that these things I'm mentioning are just kind of very more nuanced ways of that and being in the body, you know. But yeah, for sure. Like we're just kind of discovering different ways or labeling them a little bit different than maybe what it was before. Yeah, totally. Yeah. But I think a lot of it, I think a lot of people are like, yeah, let's go back to the roots. What were our ancestors doing? How were they doing stuff?
00:40:28
Speaker
So there's definitely that element. And then I, I kind of, how I'm seeing some of my movement practices, specifically around like this wrestling and movement therapy technique is, is, is somewhere where that's what's part of what the body of the crossroads ideology is. It's like,
00:40:47
Speaker
It's ancestral. It's like bringing ancestral memory. It's like tapping into that. But it's also tapping into the present and what is new and what is contemporary, what is the new medicine through movement and through processing. So it's like bringing those two together. Yeah, one of the other major themes is holding joint grief together. So that's really beautiful that we've talked about that as some of the work we're doing right now is really all about that.
00:41:15
Speaker
So that's been really just healing for me to be in a process where I'm literally processing around joy and grief in my body in a creative way. That's been that's been extremely helpful and obviously just the basic things like
00:41:29
Speaker
friendship, community, you know, like, I definitely had my community show up for me in a way I don't know that I've ever had show up for me. And that's saying a lot because I'm very blessed. Yeah, like a lot of people are really amazing in my life. But the way that folks were like,
00:41:48
Speaker
Not just the basic things of like sending flowers and sending whatever, but yeah, I felt really held in prayer. What was interesting though is I actually couldn't receive a lot during that time because I was so overwhelmed with all the logistics.
00:42:03
Speaker
Did you leave too during that time? Weren't you going after work? Oh my God, it worked out. I literally, I was on an artist residency. We had a show in Claremont, which is only like, I don't know, 45 minutes outside of LA or something. But nonetheless, it was like a whole container I was in. And literally, I think the next week I came home, my grandmother passed. So I was here for when she was getting sick and then
00:42:29
Speaker
I think it was two weeks later she'd actually passed, but that week before she was in the hospital and whatnot. So no, I was luckily, oh my God, so grateful that I was here and in town. So you weren't able, you said you weren't able, sorry, I interrupted too. You weren't able to receive things at the beginning because you were so busy. Oh yeah, just so busy like handling the logistics of like what you have to do when someone passes, right? And it's just a whole thing. It's just a whole, takes up a lot of time and energy. And I think because,
00:42:57
Speaker
As we've talked as friends, I'm an ambivert, so it's like I also need a lot of time alone. I love being social and I love connecting with people, but I need a lot of time alone, so especially if I'm overwhelmed and I'm caring a lot, then I need connection and I need to be with my people, but I just usually need sometimes more alone time than anything, and I really needed that at that time. But I can still feel the love around me of my people being like, I'm here for you, I got you, let me know.
00:43:26
Speaker
Yeah. What are some of the ways in which people showed up or ways in which they helped you in your grief journey that you felt were either unique or that you remember? Not only, of course, maybe food or in this or a phone call or a text, but were there other ways in which people showed up that either surprised you or
00:43:55
Speaker
or that were just very meaningful for you? Yeah, I think two things come to mind. One, speaking of vesseling, even though it's like this movement practice, but I really actually see it as a lifetime practice. I'm trying to go deeper into my listening in all things, in all areas of my life, and really making choices from a place that feels like it's
00:44:23
Speaker
It's honoring my knowing. It's honoring my yes. It's honoring my no, right? So sometimes I make choices that don't always intellectually make sense, but I trust spirit more than I trust the intellect. I'm not saying I don't trust intellect, but that's just where I'm at. So even on the morning of my grandmother's burial, my mom and I, we just decided to keep it extremely intimate. I was like, I really don't want people there. I just want it to be us.
00:44:53
Speaker
And what I did see was like a handful of my friends who were Baha'is. Somehow they didn't have to be Baha'is, but I wanted a lot of Baha'i prayers to be sung. So I meditated and I was like, who are the people that are supposed to be there? And I invited five women.
00:45:12
Speaker
And three of those women aren't women that I like even hang out with one-on-one, like ever, like when we see each other, like they weren't my closest friends, but I listened to my spirit and I was like, oh, they're supposed to be there. And my mom had a couple of friends there. And when I tell you, we sang the most heavenly prayers that morning, the most heavenly prayers.
00:45:36
Speaker
like the two of my mom's friends that were there were like, are you guys in a chorus together? Like y'all sounding like some literally angels over here. And even we, I think we're a little like, whoa, we do, like, I don't know. It just felt like such a spiritual experience. And that was a form of support, like even just
00:45:56
Speaker
support from the creator. I'm glad that I opened up to listen. Thank you, creator, for showing me who needed to be there. Thank you, Tati, for listening to the creator so that you could pick the right people that were supposed to be there.
00:46:12
Speaker
that support and them just being like, I'm there, I got you. And that was beautiful. And then my mom and I realized we needed it a couple of months before we had our grandmother's celebration of life, because there was just so much we had to manage in our personal lives and around my grandmother.
Familial and Spiritual Dynamics
00:46:29
Speaker
So we decided to have her celebration of life around her 90th birthday, which we were planning on having a big celebration anyways. We just turned that into that.
00:46:38
Speaker
But it was also kind of during the summertime where everyone's like out of town and busy and doing things. So most of my really close friends couldn't be there. And I had a little bit of sadness around that or a little bit of like, oh, you know, that's too bad. But one, I did have a couple of good friends that were able to come and one in particular just really like,
00:46:57
Speaker
came through, did the flowers, got so many of the things, was such an energetic support, said the most beautiful words. And also I felt my grandmother orchestrating some things. It was really interesting because my grandmother, we have so much in common and one of the things we have in common, well, I think my grandmother was even more particular with people than I can be, but there was just a couple of folks, a few people in her life that she was like, I love you, I see you, I want to build with you.
00:47:27
Speaker
And if you're not them, I'm so happy being by myself and living my life. But anyway, most of her friends have passed, but they're grandchildren I'm friends with. And they spoke at the memorial. And then we even got a recording of one of her friends, a couple of her friends. And
00:47:51
Speaker
I don't know. I'm trying to articulate what happened because it was so magical, but it was like people were like, I've never seen this before. This was bigger than just your grandmother. It was almost like this honoring of grandchildren and grandmothers because all of these grandchildren, we were all talking about our grandmothers and their journeys together in these amazing powerhouses who were beautiful and spiritual
00:48:15
Speaker
and add advocates and like did amazing work. And we were so we were all sharing how they've impacted our lives. Like it kind of became bigger than my grandmother, but about like these three
00:48:27
Speaker
women, matriarchs who are just so powerful. And I felt so supported by, if my grandmother's friends weren't alive or couldn't fully be there, it felt like the spirit of them were so there. And I don't know, just magical things like that, beautiful things like that just made it really, really special.
00:48:51
Speaker
Now your grandmother has supported you in other aspects of your own grief journeys of other grief journeys through your life. So how has her transitioning impacted your ways of
00:49:12
Speaker
having that support, you know, that, you know, grounding that she was for you. And I know that you mentioned she continues to be with you, but has it made an impact in like, I usually would call grandma to me, you know, to check in and see how is that played a part in your own life now? You know, um. I think.
00:49:43
Speaker
just because of where I'm at in my life and because I do have a lot of support and a lot of tools. As much as I got so much from talking with my grandmother, I think I had come to a place even when she passed that she wasn't necessarily one of the people that I was like, how am I going to do this without her?
00:49:59
Speaker
I do think how would I have done life without her. I know I wouldn't be where I am today without her, but I really at the moment don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. If anything, I feel so much more supported. I feel like she's
00:50:15
Speaker
in this heavenly realm where she has access to so much more superpowers. And I know she's doing her work on me. I know that when I'm struggling or I'm having a day and I can just feel her and I'm like, grandma, you got this, right? And I can just hear her like smiling like, you know, I got you, you know, like, like, you know, I'm working on this, you know, I'm, you know, I'm like, so I, yeah, I mean, I just, I
00:50:39
Speaker
That's just where I'm at with that. I just feel her so close and I just feel her support even in a bigger way. I think more than even when she was here.
00:50:51
Speaker
It's so true. I can relate to what you're saying with that so much because, yeah, even though there are times in which I sometimes wonder, oh, man, I wish I could call my mom, or things like that, at the same time, it's that knowing that she's there, she's got my back, you know, anyway, you know, that helps me as well.
00:51:14
Speaker
Okay, now Tati, what other grief parts of your journey would you like to tap into shortly? And which we will leave it as maybe part B of part two, part three, the intro until what's coming. Yeah, I don't even know. Honestly, I don't I mean, doing I don't even know because I'm like,
00:51:38
Speaker
You know, ain't nothing short about any of the other stories. So if you have a specific question, let me know. No, no, no. No, yeah. No, you're right. Okay. Let me ask you this. Okay. Let's go into the part of your healing of your mother wound because you mentioned that anyway at the beginning. So as your grandmother now, since it was the trio, now it's you and your mom, how has your dynamic of the two of you shifted now that grandma is not here physically?
00:52:07
Speaker
You know, I'm I'm still kind of like processing that to find words to articulate it but I It is interesting there is there was such a trio energy there like I feel like even when I would go visit my grandmother or it's like they live together so any I it was always like even if you know, I don't know we were just
00:52:31
Speaker
We were together a lot or in the same space. And because my mother and I, I mean, I don't have time to get into that whole story, but I will just say we had a very, very rough, tumultuous relationship and is.
00:52:45
Speaker
We've done so much healing and we're so, so much better. Nonetheless, we've still had our things. And so my grandmother definitely served at this kind of like medium sometimes of like, you know, and holding this space for both of us. And so
00:53:03
Speaker
Again, I think she still does that, and I think actually she can do that even better now. Even that, she can do better now. I think even on this earthly plane, she didn't understand a lot of it. She was always a little confused by it, and I'd have to re-explain myself and be like, I'm going to remember this, remember that, and she'd be like, oh, right, you're right. Okay, right, right, right. I see where you're coming from.
00:53:28
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah, I don't really know how to articulate it yet. It's just, she's just not physically there. And it's just me and my mom. And so I feel like I actually kind of in some ways feel like it's allowing my mom and I to go deeper further. I think even my mom like there when we did have a couple of moments, even in the very beginning after my grandmother passed dealing with some stressful things that brought up some hard feelings for us. She was like, listen, like I don't want to
00:53:55
Speaker
I don't want to have these moments with you. It's just us now. It's just us. We're all we have. I don't want to simmer in that. So I think that there's a way that my grandmother's passing has even propelled us to go even deeper and quicker into our healing.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, because I was gonna say I don't know how much of it, but as I'm tapping into energy, I actually do think that that has a lot to do with it because my mother and I have actually had a couple of really painful, hard moments in the last couple of months. And I think between the deeper work we've done, before my grandmother passed, but then something about my grandmother passing, propelling us to go deeper,
00:54:41
Speaker
And, and what I mean by that is like, even our trauma responses, right? Like we had worked with this coach a couple of years ago when we were, my mom and I were really going through it. And I think we both learn these different ways that we respond, right? In some ways, my mother is very much like.
00:54:56
Speaker
all over me. If we go through something, she wants to talk about it immediately. She wants to, and I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I need all this space. I need you to be miles away. I will let you know when I come to you and maybe a few months a year from now, the way I'm feeling. But then if you come for me, I'm going to go further away. But then I also
00:55:16
Speaker
Like have a you know an avoidance tendency be so then I would what I've learned about myself is like oh okay yes you do need your space you do need someone to honor that space or it's helpful when they can. Ultimately you have to honor that for yourself but.
00:55:32
Speaker
But one of the things I've been working on is not waiting so long, being like, you can get to this sooner. You don't have to protect this forever. You don't have to be so afraid because while trauma is showing up, that's part of how you get triggered. But I have to remember, that was from the past. My mom is better. So can I come to her sooner?
00:55:57
Speaker
We're diffusing things quicker is what I'm trying to say is like she's given me more space and I'm coming to her sooner to be like, I'm ready to talk, you know?
Navigating Grief with Grace
00:56:07
Speaker
And I feel like there was just some spiritual support around that for my grandmother's
00:56:14
Speaker
from the spiritual realm, but also just from her being gone. There's something about like, we can't use her as a crutch anymore. That's exactly the word I have been like, that's exactly what I was thinking. We don't get to just tell her what we're feeling. We actually need to talk to each other, you know? And we did, but it's just different. We're doing it in a more mature way. And so...
00:56:39
Speaker
Well, yeah, that's the word that I was like, let me see if that comes up, because that's the word I had. I'm like, I'm wondering if that how that dynamic changed when, yes, you were a trio, but if she was that middleman, you know, like, then how do you then now? So yeah, you don't, you know, I don't think I realized how much she was until now, actually, like, literally even this moment, when a couple of people had like, brought that up, like, how was it with your grandma gone? I was like,
00:57:07
Speaker
I don't know. But now, actually, just in this conversation, this moment, I realized actually how much we were using her as this. That crutch, yeah. Yeah, the middle point. Yeah, because you had somebody there to diffuse a little bit to what you guys were feeling, or even a reason to have to maybe see each other sooner than maybe you wanted. Yes.
00:57:30
Speaker
You'd have to go see your grandma, let's say, but maybe you didn't want to see mom, but then you did go, but then, you know, so all these dynamics. So this is great that you guys are, you know, consistently working on your dynamics. Now share with the audience, like what would be some of these takeaways for you then in dynamics, in your life's journey, as well as your grief journey, what would be some
00:58:00
Speaker
words of encouragement, either from the work you do or from the experiences you've lived for others that may be going through either traumatic events or going through grief. What are some shares you'd like to express? I think, I mean, I know this isn't like a new thing to say, but sometimes we can't hear the same thing enough, you know, when we're actually trying to put something into practice, but
00:58:30
Speaker
But the first thing that came to me is to just have grace with yourself. It is so important to call on grace, the energy of grace, the spirit of grace, to really call that in and be with it.
00:58:49
Speaker
let it be with you, let it carry you, breathe it in, meditate on it, ask for it.
Affirmation Transformation Technique
00:58:55
Speaker
So beyond just the word of being like hearing it, how can you really try to actively infuse it into your life, into your grief process?
00:59:07
Speaker
because no matter what it is, even for me, I was having feelings that I wasn't having feelings, right? And I had to give myself grace for being feeling guilty that I wasn't feeling as sad as I thought I would so quickly, right? And sometimes from what I hear, and I've had a little bit of this experience with other things, but yeah, I can really just take you out. And you're like, whoa, I can't do anything right now because I have to be with these feelings.
00:59:38
Speaker
then that can just bring up so many other feelings. So I just think grace is so needed. It's so necessary. It's so necessary. Grace and...
00:59:51
Speaker
probably my two other answers, which were probably my answer to almost any question. So anyone who follows my journey, as I may start doing more podcasts and stuff, you might get tired of me hearing this shit, but I'm gonna say it. Trusting yourself and then the listening. I just think those two ingredients are everything. They're everything. Trusting yourself, trusting your journey, trusting that everything's gonna be okay, that when your worries come up because of whatever's happening in your life,
01:00:21
Speaker
specifically whatever's coming up around your loss and what you may be like worried about, whatever that is, you know, like my mom being like, Oh God, now my grandma is gone and now I don't have this money coming in and how am I going to pay for my rent? And it's like, it's all going to work out. It's always going to work out, but it's going to work out smoother and in a more profound way, the more that you trust your journey and trust that you know what you need to do. And granted, I know that that's
01:00:48
Speaker
not an easy task I think especially for the feminine and it's why I have a whole whole workshops on trusting and intuition and how do we access that and do that but I think even when you if you've never taken that course or never take anything like that to just hold holding the intention that I trust myself I trust myself I trust my journey I trust that the universe supports me I trust that I'm gonna get exactly what I need you know I think
01:01:17
Speaker
I think trusting and then I know I mentioned the listening, which I'm not going to go too much in at the second, but what another thing that's coming in for me right now, what got me through my grief around, which I know we haven't talked about this time and maybe another time, but
01:01:37
Speaker
My husband, my ex-husband and I were together for 12 years and separated two and a half years ago. And leaving that marriage was the hardest thing I have ever done in my adulthood. And the pain that came up for me that was so much bigger than had nothing to do with me and him, because that's usually how life works. If you're tapped in, you can realize half the time what you're feeling and even about the person, right? Or like the quote unquote present time situation.
01:02:05
Speaker
The amount of fear and pain and deep, I went into a depression and I really didn't know how I was gonna move forward out of that marriage even though once I had clarity that I had to do that. And one of the things that got me through was embodying gratitude.
01:02:28
Speaker
And so while, again, gratitude is very like, yes, we hear about it a lot, but I think for me, that's why the somatic piece is so important. It's the embodiment piece though. It's like, but how are you integrating that part? Because you can say I'm grateful all day long and yes, you need to find a way to like make it as authentic for you as you can. But like, for example, when I was like, where am I gonna go? How am I gonna,
01:02:56
Speaker
Where am I going to live? Instead of staying in the depths of my fear of whatever they were, and there were many, then I would, I came up with this, I created this technique called affirmation transformation, where it's kind of like, okay, what is coming up? What is coming up for me? And how do I transmit that?
01:03:18
Speaker
first through an affirmation, and then through the body. So for example, when I'm like, where am I going to live? How am I going to support myself this year? And then I will say, thank you. Thank you, God. Thank you, universe. Thank you, Most Great Spirit, for providing the most perfect transitional home for me to ground and build and heal. Thank you. Thank you.
01:03:48
Speaker
Be so grateful for it before it came because I knew that I had to raise my vibration into that gratitude to help support calling that in and experiencing that. And that was my daily multiple times a day. I had to do that to get through some of the biggest loss and some of the deepest, saddest feelings that I had felt in my adulthood was embodying gratitude.
01:04:17
Speaker
and calling in and praying for. And even if you're not someone that believes in quote unquote prayer, but I mean, it's like they say worrying is praying for what you don't want. Energy is energy. So whether you don't have to call it prayer, whatever, you just want to call it emotions or energy, whatever works for you. But we are growing more of whatever we're feeling. Those are our seeds that we're planting.
01:04:44
Speaker
So whatever you're feeling, you're going to create more of that. That's just how the brain works. That's how wiring works. That's how the world works. That's just how the law of attraction works. You know, so you're digging like a trench, like a trench, a deeper trench in that direction. And that's yeah, that's it. There's nothing, there's nothing woo woo about most of the spiritual practices. It's all scientific.
01:05:08
Speaker
Right. Right. Luckily. Yeah, exactly. We're like, listen, for all of you scientific folks who think all this shit is, we'll go look at the research. We got that too. So yeah. Wow. No, that is just amazing. And now take us into, you know, what the work you do and how people are able then to work alongside you in your journeys and what you offer. Because just even what you just mentioned, I had never
01:05:44
Speaker
I've never heard it worded that way. Yeah, you said it. I said it right, but it sounded weird, right? Wait, that does not sound grammatically correct.
01:05:59
Speaker
I had never heard it worded that way in terms of embodying gratitude. I know, of course, this podcast is called Grief Gratitude, and the grade between gratitude is in it, but the embodiment of it is more than just the
01:06:14
Speaker
words it really just means the feeling of it even if before it even occurs just kind of living in that space of it of that gratitude, so So
Healing Arts and Gratitude
01:06:24
Speaker
thank you for that and I'm sure in your workshops and things like that more of these Amazing nuggets as we call them come up and people can take so many more so share how people are able to work with you in any of the format formats that you have and
01:06:43
Speaker
Yeah. You know, I don't have a whole lot of consistency right now. Like I'm not like, I have this class every Monday at this time or every whatever. I'm very much because I'm in this listening practice and I am in this transition of kind of remolding and recreating in some ways.
01:07:06
Speaker
Um, you know, I, I'm holding the intention to at least do one healing arts retreat a year. Um, I'm holding the intention. I mean, I'm definitely in process of creating projects and you know, performances and shows. And I think that those are just.
01:07:23
Speaker
as powerful as healing experiences, at least in my experience. I mean, I've had, honestly, probably more people send me even letters and stuff from when I did my produce my first show. That changed my life, right? And like, I that healed me healing, hearing your story healed me. So I think through through the performances and, and the workshops and retreats,
01:07:47
Speaker
are like the main ways I'm working with people right now. I sometimes do one-on-ones. I don't really promote that as much. I do just like people reach out and I'm like, if I can work with them one-on-one at the time he works out, I do. But the best way to stay in touch is one, I think Instagram, I'm not on there a whole lot, but like it can be like a way to just stay connected. But the best way
01:08:09
Speaker
It's definitely going to be my newsletter just because when I actually have an offering, you'll see it. I try to share on Instagram, but you know, social media is so weird. It's like the algorithms and all that. You may not see everything. You don't see everything. So if you want to make sure that you know what's happening and you know what offerings are happening, yeah, just through my name. I mean, my Instagram handle and my website is my name, Tatiana Zamira, C-A-T-I-A-M-A.
01:08:33
Speaker
Z-A-M-I-R. So yeah. We got to hear a little bit of the singing. Oh my God. No, that's just me being silly. I just like to sing myself sometimes. Yeah. But yeah, I would say those are some good ways to just stay in touch so that you kind of know what's going on and you can see if something resonates or works out for me to join. Thank you. Tati, is there anything I did not ask you that you want to make sure you still share?
01:09:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I feel like sometimes later on, like when you when you when I know anyone who gives talks or like it's sometimes you later like, Oh, I forgot to blah, blah, blah, but nothing's coming to me right now. And so no, I love this conversation. I'm so, so glad we had it. And it was just as sweet for me, you know, got some gems for me to just have space held. So thank you for asking those questions and allowing me to process and be with you with all of this and
01:09:31
Speaker
I'm so grateful of you being my first guest after this three-month hiatus or two-month hiatus of recording. I'm just so grateful to have you on the podcast for you sharing this story. I was so moved by your journey. I've been in awe of you since I've known you as a young, you were a young teenage girl when I met you.
01:09:58
Speaker
and the woman that you are and how much I learned from your own journey. And again, even though we don't see each other, we know of each other's energy and all that of each other. And I felt the same way. I mean, you've just always been such a light and you're
01:10:17
Speaker
Stunning. I mean, like inside and out. Just like, you know, just so beautiful. No, I remember every, all the dudes being like, but did you see that? Okay. Let me stop recording now.
01:10:33
Speaker
Sorry, get a little, okay, off script, okay, all that being, you know. But no, just, while I'm saying this, you are a beautiful light, and I'm just, I'm so happy that you've stayed in touch all these years, and to have this conversation today was really special for me. It was, it was, thank you again, and for sharing, and sharing your,
01:10:50
Speaker
your beautiful energy, all the beautiful energy that you bring of your grandmother as well, then of your mom, these three generations of women in you. So thank you, dear, and thank you to Bliss as well for sitting, waiting for mama to finish recording. Yeah, she did pretty good. You guys might hear her snoring in the background or something like that, but at least she...
01:11:14
Speaker
Yeah. And mine stayed quiet for them. Mine as well right now, so I'm grateful they did good. I love you, Tati. Thank you so much. I love you. And to everybody, make sure to check the bio in the show notes, and you'll see Tatiana's website there. And I received the newsletter, and I was able to participate on the virtual dancing that you did during the pandemic that you offered the class virtually, so I was able to participate a couple of times there.
01:11:43
Speaker
But for those that live in the LA area, you can see some of her shows there. I might be doing some more of her show things. Yeah, and I also tour things. Sometimes I have shows in other states or other countries. Was it San Antonio or Houston? Yeah, we had a little tour in Houston. Houston, right, here in Texas. I would have some stuff in the Bay area soon. Yeah, so you never know. Never know.
01:12:13
Speaker
Thank you.
01:12:20
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
01:12:48
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.