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200. Reflections on Grief: 200 Voices, 5 Years, and the Journey of Healing
54 Plays6 days ago
Welcome to a very special episode of Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between. Today, we celebrate a milestone—our 200th episode! Over the past five years, I’ve had the privilege of sitting down with nearly 200 incredible individuals, each sharing their unique experiences and perspectives on grief.
Grief is complex. It’s not just about loss—it’s about transitions, expectations, healing, and everything in between. In honor of this journey, we’re revisiting some of the most profound moments from past conversations—voices that have shaped this space, challenged misconceptions, and offered wisdom on navigating grief and finding light through the darkness.
Join me as we reflect, honor, and learn from the many voices that have guided us over the years. I’m so grateful for this community. If you feel you resonate with any of the insights shared by my guests, I invite you to look for the full interview I've done with them.
- Episode Timeline:
- Jana DeCristofaro – The layered emotions of grief, relief, and guilt.
- Kendra Rinaldi – Reframing grief as transition through Baha’i teachings.
- Carol Schneberg – How we grieve the way we live, shaped by hospice insights.
- Tawny Platis – Finding comfort in metaphysical views on time and connection.
- Sophie Mills – How loss led her to question lifelong atheist beliefs.
- Jenny Robinson – Surrendering to a loved one’s journey and finding peace.
- Daniel Rinaldi – Honoring his mother’s passing through music and reflection.
- Aijia Grammar – The isolation of grief when it’s unacknowledged.
- Colin Campbell – Confronting denial and choosing to live with purpose.
- Bevin Mugford – Learning from hardship and finding wisdom in pain.
- Rabbi Steve Leder – Rejecting grief “stages” and embracing waves of emotion.
- Edy Nathan – Grief as a dance—fluid, messy, and deeply personal.
- Nathan Peterson – Floating through grief when pushing forward feels impossible.
- Pixie Lighthorse – The power of permission to fully experience grief.
- Grant Garry – Letting grief express itself instead of suppressing it.
- Tatiana Zamir – Processing grief through unfinished business and peace.
- Stephanie Matos – Using grief as a catalyst for personal growth.
For more information about the different services I offer (Speking, Grief Education, Grief Coach) Or to be a guest on the Podcast reach out: griefgratitudepodcast@gmail.com or on my website. https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the 200th Episode and Retrospective
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. I am your host, Kendra Rinaldi, and today marks a truly special moment for me.
00:00:11
Speaker
It is our 200th episode. you know, for the past five years, I've had the privilege of interviewing nearly 200 incredible individuals, each person sharing their unique perspectives on grief.
00:00:27
Speaker
We've explored loss. We've explored transitions and the tools that help us navigate our journey. So in honor of this milestone, we are taking a look back, sharing some of these powerful snippets from past conversations that shed light on the grief process, the misconceptions surrounding it, and strategies for healing.
Understanding Grief's Impact on Relationships
00:00:54
Speaker
These are just a few of many voices that have shaped this space over the years. So let's dive in.
00:01:07
Speaker
We grieve for the relationship we never got to have with them. We grieve for the future that will never maybe perhaps be different if that person's life circumstances are able to shift in some way. So I think relief can be threaded through all of that. And then right after relief can also come a lot of guilt and then a lot of confusion and a lot of um mystery for people as to like, I didn't even really get along very well with this person. Why is my grief feeling so intense?
00:01:41
Speaker
Grief means intense sorrow.
Redefining Grief Beyond Loss
00:01:44
Speaker
You feel it if something terribly sad happens. Comes from the Latin word gravare, which means heavy.
00:01:53
Speaker
So this is from vocabulary.com that I got that definition. Now, I have to disagree with the part of this definition where it says that it's something terribly sad that happens.
00:02:05
Speaker
And why that is, is because I feel that there are people that can experience grief even in happy life-changing moments. I believe that grief occurs when there's a big change.
00:02:17
Speaker
Change in our life of when the idea of ah or the expectation of what we had does not meet the reality.
00:02:30
Speaker
Later, when I got involved with hospice, I realized that, you know, we talk about we died the way we live. We always say that in hospice. And but it's the truest thing. And families validate that all the time when they'll tell me about how their person died.
00:02:47
Speaker
And i learned, too, that we grieve the way we live.
Personal Stories of Grief and Healing
00:02:51
Speaker
Of course, we are only who we are.
00:03:00
Speaker
So definitely I can say my relationship with her, with her passing was very different. And so the reason can that i didn't share it with you directly or with with our other sister, Catherine, or with my dad was just because it can be easily misinterpreted.
00:03:16
Speaker
And we each had a different process. And I remember she asked me one day we went to to Stone Mountain Park in Atlanta and we just sat by this lake and we were praying and meditating and talking. And most of the time we just spent in silence, just like looking at nature, which is one of her favorite things to do and one of my favorite things. so and she asked me, Benny, like, how are you feeling about this?
00:03:40
Speaker
And I shared with her, like, can I, can I be honest with you? And she was like, yeah, please. And I shared that with her. I shared these feelings and she was so happy well to hear that.
00:03:54
Speaker
And she was like, and, and she was like, Danny, I feel exactly the same way. oh That, that day I got probably one of the most precious gifts I've ever received.
00:04:07
Speaker
Um, she She said, Dani, after your sister's passing 19 years ago 18 years ago, she i composed a song about life after death in in the rhythm of Cumbia, the Colombian rhythm of Cumbia, which is a very danceable and very lively rhythm, ah which is ironic in a sense, talking about life after death. But she said she composed it with the hopes of being of it being used as a tool to
00:04:40
Speaker
for people to grieve and for people to not be so sad and to be able to feel more joy for the sake of the soul and the the journey they're about to embark on, the spiritual journey.
00:04:54
Speaker
In the sense, this song was my way to grieve. And again, it was just a different process
Exploring Spiritual Dimensions of Grief
00:05:01
Speaker
for me. I feel, and I'm thankful for this song that she gave me because it it gave me permission to accept her her journey of death with joy.
00:05:17
Speaker
That's what she wanted as well. Even though it it sort of came naturally, it also, it gave me just even more like permission, if that makes any sense. And it it allowed me to to connect with her and at a much deeper level than than ever before.
00:05:32
Speaker
And it still has that effect every time I interact with but the song.
00:05:41
Speaker
So as an atheist, like a hard line atheist too, um I find a lot of comfort in like metaphysics theories, if that makes sense. That's where as somebody who's very sciencey, that's where I find a lot of comfort. And to the best of my understanding,
00:06:00
Speaker
time is not linear, you know? So what has happened, what's happening, what will happen is all happening simultaneously. So George and i have always been together and we will always be together and we're together right now.
00:06:16
Speaker
It's just my perception. It's all messed up. And there is this line from this cartoon song, Adventure Time. The song's called Time Adventure. And the line goes, if I could hang all these moments like up on a wall so I could see them all, I would see that what happened...
00:06:37
Speaker
is happening, will happen, happens again and again, and you and I will always be best friends. And that song is happening like kind of during like the end of the world. It's like the apocalypse in this world. And that song just that will always break me down and just like make me just a weep because it's so encouraging. Like I'm like, you know, it's it's not it it always is. And it's a very hippy dippy way to kind of look at it.
00:07:01
Speaker
But that that brings me a lot of comfort. That and the Adams thing, too, you know, like Adams are all recycled and you know, throughout time. Maybe George and my atoms were, that's how we explained our soulmate thing.
Transformative Experiences Through Grief
00:07:14
Speaker
It's like maybe our atoms have been the ones that keep colliding and like, you know, running into each other and our atoms are recognizing each other and that's where that magnetism comes from. And those same atoms are in other people. So that's how i can still connect with other people.
00:07:31
Speaker
you know, it's all one in the same, like, like it's a very, again, hippie way to look at it. Like I am he and you are me and we are all one and together. so Again, George and I have always been together and always will be.
00:07:46
Speaker
My story, guess it starts, ah you know, in childhood as they all speak. But I was, you know, I was raised in and atheist household where we sort of held, I guess, one particular belief that is highly relevant to my story.
00:08:08
Speaker
And that is essentially that when we die, it. that's it you know, we're dead in the ground and we sort of cease to exist. And, and also that this is our one and only life.
00:08:20
Speaker
That was sort of a ah what I learned from my childhood. And, you know, this notion that, that this is it, this is our one and only life. It sort of caused me really a great deal of suffering, even before my actual grief story, ah guess, kicked in, you know, in that, like,
00:08:38
Speaker
Everything mattered. head You know, this was my one and only life and I really need to make it perfect. I need to have no regrets. And so I held really a lot of anxiety.
00:08:49
Speaker
And for me, that manifested in a real need to kind of control everything in a really sort of severe perfectionism way. And, um, and then of course, you know, in my early twenties, I had my quadriplegic father die unexpectedly at 24 when I had this belief system still in place that, you know, when we die, that's it.
00:09:12
Speaker
We're dead in the ground. There's, we cease to exist and this is our one and only life, you know. I kind of at the bedside that moment when i was sitting and watching him die, just he and I, and he finally went, I knew almost instantaneously that that couldn't be true.
00:09:32
Speaker
My story, I guess, is really about how death was like a portal for me into a spiritual awakening.
00:09:47
Speaker
So the moment I decided and I chose to honor her, to respect her, to surrender to what she wanted, not what I wanted. This is her journey. This is her path. she is going to choose for herself where what she wants to do.
00:10:05
Speaker
I can't. I can't do it. And it was killing me inside knowing that I i couldn't. But the moment that i stepped back and I said, thank you, God. i know that this is her path. This is her journey. I need to let go. I let go and let God.
00:10:20
Speaker
And was a moment our relationship turned its pages. I was there for her. I was like not judging her. i was not forcing her, attacking her to try something new. I just was there with her, holding her hand, talking to her, being with her.
00:10:36
Speaker
And it was the most beautiful thing that I could have ever done because like I said, I i have no regrets. So the moment I surrendered and just was there for her, Yeah, present and it was in what was happening. And i just remember like the last week of her life, I would go home and I would just s lay in bed and I would breathe love and exhale fear and say that to myself. And because I'm sure like no one can sleep during that time, but i like I had to choose something to get me through it and that helped so much. i was i was at peace finally by the end. you know i was at peace with what was happening and we were all there with her and it was the most beautiful thing. um
00:11:20
Speaker
you know She passed away in my in their home. and My little sister was holding her hand and she yelled to everyone because we were arranging things like out in the living room. And we all ran back to the bedroom and she took her last breath and smiled.
00:11:35
Speaker
And i cried my eyes out, but I was saying, thank you, God. Thank you, God. And just like raising my hands and like I could feel her soul lifting.
Navigating Grief's Emotional Landscape
00:11:44
Speaker
And it was beautiful.
00:11:53
Speaker
And then that's when you. Yeah. Like she took her last breath.
00:11:59
Speaker
And i remember people like looking at each other, like, like, is that it? Like, you know, like basically kind of confirming or like looking at the nurse. And my instinct was just to put the flute to my mouth and start playing.
00:12:16
Speaker
and And I just, I wanted to serenade her on, on her, on her journey, you know, to, to me that night.
00:12:29
Speaker
felt identical to seeing the birth of my two children in terms of if there's a lot of joy, but yet pain, you know, and and it's like, and you're tired, like physically tired and emotionally too. There's just so much going on. It's so intense.
00:12:47
Speaker
It felt exactly the same. Yeah. I remember for me, it felt because i was also like smiling and laughing. And I remember my kids were a little confused a little about that. yeah And I've had conversations with them since. But it was that I was just so happy that it happened how she wanted. It was like, and this is what I've told them before. I'm like, it's not that I'm happy that my mom died. I'm happy that it happened exactly like she wanted. Like how who Who would have thought that we would all be able to be in the same space at the moment of her death? Who would have thought that it could have happened?
00:13:33
Speaker
The denial of someone's grief is almost a worse than the thing itself because when you aren't reflected back what you're experiencing and when you're denied what you're experiencing by people around you that you love and that are supposed to be supportive, you feel, oh am I crazy? am i and then And then you're alone in your
00:14:02
Speaker
And so when my therapist said that it was a form of denial, it was it was kind of an eye opener because if I'm just thinking about the what ifs the moment before the crash, then I'm stuck in that past where they're still alive.
00:14:17
Speaker
And in a way, part of my brain wants to be there because they're still alive, right? If I'm in that car before the crash, I'm with my living children. And there's a even though it's horribly painful, there is a certain and just certain desire be there.
00:14:34
Speaker
temptation to be there but But being there is in denial because I did make that turn and we were hit and they're gone now.
00:14:44
Speaker
And that was helpful to me to realize, right, denial is not my friend because denial means I'm living in the past and and here I am in the present. I'd rather be in the present where I can mourn my children and live and live in a way that honors them and makes them proud rather than being you know trapped in ah in a fantasy past.
00:15:16
Speaker
It taught me how to get quiet, to look in internally, to ask myself in moments, but this was a moment of hardship, but what's the learning?
00:15:31
Speaker
What can i learn here?
00:15:35
Speaker
and and And as I was training myself on how to do that holistic role, who knew what a gift that would be in helping me to navigate ah trauma of losing my child?
00:15:57
Speaker
However, I don't agree with the concept of stages of grief because stages of grief implies first you feel A, then you feel B, then you feel C, then you feel D, and then you're done.
00:16:12
Speaker
And that's just not true. It is not linear. yeah And it implies there's a wrong way to grief, you know?
00:16:24
Speaker
and And that's also false. There's no wrong way to grief. So this whole idea of stages to me is just nonsense. I think it's much more like waves. Grief is much more like waves.
00:16:35
Speaker
There are these massive waves very close together. And with time, they grow further apart. And sometimes you get beautiful, calm seas.
00:16:47
Speaker
And sometimes after weeks, months, years, decades even, your back is turned. and a massive rogue wave comes at you and just takes you.
00:17:00
Speaker
That's grief. and ah Now let's extend that wave metaphor a little further because what are our options, right? The old Steve Leder, before my father died, whenever any kind of wave was coming at me, any kind of loss, any kind of challenge, my default setting was I'm going to stand up I'm gonna face that wave coming at me, bare chested, face first, and I'm gonna stand here and take it because I am stronger than that wave.
00:17:35
Speaker
Now, when it comes to grief, we all know what happens when you adopt that posture. You end up turned upside down, thrashed, thrown against the rocks, gasping for air.
00:17:53
Speaker
The other choice when that wave is coming in is to lie down, let it wash over you and float with it until you can stand up.
00:18:09
Speaker
That's what I learned. That's that one degree difference that makes all the difference for me when it comes to how to journey through
00:18:25
Speaker
This is all part of the grief dance. And I just want to explain for a moment about the use of dance because it's about dancing, i think, is about partnership and how you're going to partner people whoever, or or even the music.
00:18:45
Speaker
and And sometimes that partnership feels really smooth and easy, and sometimes it's staccato, and sometimes it's
Authenticity and Growth in Grieving
00:18:52
Speaker
jagged. and But not being afraid to be in that partnership is part of what makes the grief process and your evolution in your own healing possible.
00:19:15
Speaker
There was a quality found during some of those days that felt impossible of floating. And I think that that is an option anytime for any person to take on an, an effort, almost effortless floating through a day.
00:19:40
Speaker
Probably that can be like a very wonderful way to live a day. During that time, it became the only way to survive was there were lots of days. I just remember saying to myself at the beginning of the day, you're going to have to float through this day.
00:19:59
Speaker
You can't, cannot push through the day. You'll push yourself straight into the ground. And so there was a permission, I think that was really important to give to myself to not have to accomplish anything or exert effort, but to just be.
00:20:23
Speaker
And that was a, it was a beautiful lesson for me because I was doing that for Olivia every day.
00:20:40
Speaker
It was just permission, just permission to be where I was at. it was I was provided verbally and spatially with you know the the space to process, to talk about it, to be stuck in it even.
00:20:54
Speaker
There was no judgment about, gosh, you have been talking about this loss or this pain for so long. When are you going to get over that? And this is the kind of way that it was growing up in my family. Move you know, just stop loitering in it.
00:21:10
Speaker
And so for the first time ever, I had permission to just be how I actually was without having to, you know, as women also, we're very surveilling of ourselves, always checking ourselves and watching ourselves. So we're not disrupting anyone's peace in any way.
00:21:27
Speaker
And so this was a permission. Grief is messy. it's It's disruptive. You go ahead. You be in that space. We'll hold it around you.
00:21:46
Speaker
having a grief experience is
00:21:51
Speaker
whatever you feel is right in that moment that you're feeling it is honestly, it's right for you. You know, who am I to say that you can't punch a hole in the wall?
00:22:02
Speaker
You know, I mean, i mean Break an old photo, you know, shatter something, smoke a cigarette. Might not be good to do that, some of these things long term, but if you need to do that right then, grieve how you have to.
00:22:19
Speaker
Otherwise, it's going to find you. You know, it doesn't go away. So when those grief moments like come up, really just allow space for it.
00:22:30
Speaker
Now, With that said, I know how challenging it can be to be at like work and in a public place. And if you need to just get up and walk away, go to the bathroom and like let it out somehow, do it.
00:22:45
Speaker
you know Just fine find those ways to allow the space for it because it's going to happen. It's going to come up. And if we try and push it away, that's that's only going to make it worse.
00:22:56
Speaker
and And it can manifest in more negative ways down the line. So as as hard as it is, it it really is helpful to allow it to come out because it's going to be there.
00:23:15
Speaker
I mean, to be honest, one of the One of the things I was processing having a hard time being with was that I didn't feel like I had enough grief or sadness when my grandmother passed. Like given how close we were and given how much I love her, it was like something about the way she transitioned and just focusing on the light and the love of our relationship was just really carrying me.
00:23:45
Speaker
And I don't know if this is true, but it does resonate with with me. I had a friend who said, you know, i have noticed people have a harder earn time with loss when there was a lot unfinished business and a lot of pain.
00:23:59
Speaker
It's almost like... those wounds get erupted, right? When someone, because then you're not just losing the person, it's like all the other stuff comes up. And I think because my grandmother and I were at so much peace with each other and there wasn't unfinished business or unsaid words. So I think that's a part of it.
00:24:25
Speaker
I grew up believing that death was not the end of life, but rather a transition. This coming from the Baha'i writings, which is the core of my beliefs. So here's a quote ah from Abdu'l-Baha, and this is from the Baha'i writings.
00:24:41
Speaker
To consider that after the death of the body the spirit perishes is like imagining that a bird in a cage will be destroyed if the cage is broken, though the bird has nothing to fear from the destruction of the cage.
00:24:59
Speaker
Our body is like the cage, and the spirit is like the bird. If the cage becomes broken, the bird will continue and exist. Its feelings will be even more powerful, its perceptions greater, and its happiness increased.
00:25:23
Speaker
When my dad passed away, what I did was I took myself away from the world, but I went into ah dark hole. And when I did this with my mom, I took myself out of the world, but it was to rediscover who I was and what I was meant to do on this earth.
00:25:38
Speaker
So it was a very, very therapeutic, very cathartic, um amazing thing. i was able to utilize her death as the catalyst for me to become who I am today, to be able to help the women that I helped, to be able to become successful and have success in my business, in my life, be a happy person.
00:25:58
Speaker
And so rather than letting her death again, kind of suck me down this tragic victim hood, you know, place, I chose to become a victor.
00:26:08
Speaker
So I wanted to be the victor of my life rather than the victim. And so that's, you know, and I really wanted to share this story with the listeners because when we lose someone who is very, very important to us in our lives,
00:26:21
Speaker
we have a choice whether it breaks us or whether it catapults us into another level of success for ourselves, into another level of happiness, um into tapping into what they would want for us and the happiness that they would want to see us having. And I really believe she's right here with me right now.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:26:47
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
00:27:00
Speaker
If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:27:16
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
00:27:29
Speaker
And thanks once again for tuning in to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.