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194. Love, Grief, and the Courage to Speak on Suicide with Shana Belyeu
28 Plays2 days ago
Shana Belyeu, founder of Speak on Suicide (www.speakonsuicide.com), began her grief journey after the tragic loss of her 15-year-old son, Adam, to suicide. Shana is driven by a promise to Adam that his story wouldn’t end with his death. She has dedicated herself to sharing his life, the impact of his loss, and her own path toward healing. Through her advocacy, she fosters open and honest conversations about suicide and mental health, challenging the stigma that too often silences these topics. Through her grief, Shana has found gratitude – for the love that remains, the lives she touches, and the support of those who have walked beside her in this journey. By speaking out, Shana hopes to remind others that even in the darkest moments, hope and healing are possible.
Contact and social media:
Show Notes:
- Adam’s life, his unique challenges, and his incredible resilience.
- The stigma surrounding suicide and the importance of open conversations.
- The emotional complexity of grief—how joy and sorrow often coexist.
- Shana’s journey toward healing and how Adam’s legacy inspires her advocacy work. This episode highlights the intersection of love, grief, mental health, and the courageous act of sharing one’s story for the greater good.
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Transcript
Shauna's Dream and Introduction
00:00:01
Speaker
And then that night I dreamt about him for the first time and he was in the dream. And I remember saying in the dream, Adam, don't let this be a dream. You have to tell me that you're really here, that I'm not going to lose you again that I'm not dreaming.
00:00:19
Speaker
And he said, no, mom, you're not dreaming. I'm really here and I'll always be here.
Podcast Introduction and Host Introduction
00:00:24
Speaker
And that he was proud of me
00:00:32
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast. This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:00:55
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys.
00:01:07
Speaker
I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host.
Shauna's Journey with Loss
00:01:09
Speaker
Now, let's dive right into today's episode.
00:01:16
Speaker
Today on the podcast, I am talking with Shauna Bellew, soon to be Shauna Winter. will talk more about that. As you guys are listening to this, she'll be Shauna Winter, founder of Speak on Suicide. She began her grief journey after the tragic loss of her 15-year-old son, Adam, to suicide.
00:01:38
Speaker
And she is driven by a promise to Adam that his story wouldn't end with his death. And she has dedicated herself to sharing his life and the impact of his loss and her own path toward healing.
00:01:52
Speaker
And I am happy that we were connected by ah friend that we know in common, somebody else that's been on the podcast and that
Shauna's Personal Background
00:02:01
Speaker
you are here. So thank you, Shauna, for being here.
00:02:04
Speaker
Thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here with you today. I am happy you're here. And of course, just with the bio, then listeners can now decide if this is the right time for them to listen. A lot of times when they're sensitive topics, people sometimes...
00:02:20
Speaker
it need to kind of be warned. And suicide is one of those that a lot of times can bring a lot of emotions and a lot to the circuit, can bring up a lot of emotions for people when they are listening either by their own experiences. So just just ah just know that that's what we'll be talking about. But this one's really more, I think, a story about love and the commitment of yourself to your son and then this journey of paying it forward and really living his legacy through what you do now, right?
00:02:54
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. So welcome.
Happiness and Loss
00:02:56
Speaker
So Shauna, tell us about you, where you live and we'll go from there. um Okay. So my name is Shauna. I live in South Florida in a town called Davie near Fort Lauderdale.
00:03:10
Speaker
I lived down in Florida for about 30 years. i grew up outside of Philadelphia and I'm going up there later today to get married this weekend. it so I know as i as we started recording, you're like telling me I'm like, how do I pronounce your name?
00:03:26
Speaker
And then you're like this, but you won't have to know it very long. So as you guys are listening to this, she will be Shauna Winter, her new married name. Very exciting. Very exciting. And that's a big change in itself. that ah that'd be That's a whole other a whole other conversation because even getting married can bring up even emotions of grief as well.
00:03:49
Speaker
ah Because there's a lot of change that happens. Right. everything Everything brings up a lot of emotions. And what I tend to say is that my happiness is conditional. I have found happiness.
00:04:01
Speaker
um i am I am happy in my life. I am happy in my relationship. I find joy in things. I enjoy things. But it's all conditional because Adam's not here to celebrate it with me.
00:04:15
Speaker
So we incorporate him into every part of our lives and I incorporate him into every moment of mine, not just through Speak on Suicide, but just in my being. um But yeah, it's nice to have something good to celebrate and to bring people together.
00:04:31
Speaker
it's It's one of those things that with grief, like even just with the title of this podcast, Grief and Gratitude, it's something that a lot of times we don't realize is that emotions can coexist. And sometimes when we're in that midst of grief or sadness, we don't realize that there can be this
Speaking on Suicide
00:04:50
Speaker
other part. it doesn't have to be one or the other. It can be and.
00:04:54
Speaker
So right now you are in a moment of a lot of change and joy that's coming in your life amidst your grief journey because it's very recent since Adam's passing.
00:05:05
Speaker
So if you can share about him and a little of the circumstances of his death, it doesn't have to be too much in detail, but just the the type of things that help us also as parents, especially because he was 15 years at the time of death, it it's important for us to have these conversations openly and to take away the stigma of suicide because the reality is that it is, it's like that's the last drop of what it is, but it's really a mental health that leads to the cost that
Adam's Life and Struggles
00:05:42
Speaker
why they die. Is that correct? Would that be a right approach?
00:05:46
Speaker
I think in general, yes. um There was certainly something going on with him. But Adam, i think, was different in his suicide in that it seemed to be very impulsive.
00:06:01
Speaker
And although he did have struggles and did struggle with anxiety, um i don't know that... I don't have any belief that he was depressed, um that he was currently struggling the way he was.
00:06:18
Speaker
So Adam was I mean, every parent says this, but Adam was an incredible kid. um he He was the most deliberate thing I ever did.
00:06:32
Speaker
um You know, a lot of moms, they get pregnant. They have a child. They're a mom. I couldn't get pregnant. We tried the old fashioned way. I did three rounds of in vitro.
00:06:43
Speaker
Couldn't get pregnant. And so we decided to adopt and actually traveled around the world. Um, and he was adopted from Kazakhstan and came home three days before his first birthday.
00:06:55
Speaker
So I didn't just become a mom. And then, so Adam was, he also had cerebral palsy, um, which we did not know until we got him home and took him to doctors, but Adam thrived.
00:07:13
Speaker
Um, I wish I could show pictures, but Adam, I don't know how much you or or your listeners know about cerebral palsy, but um the way I describe it as a complete lay person is it's kind of on a spectrum, but not like autism and Asperger's is on a spectrum.
00:07:36
Speaker
um At its core, the way I understood it, um cerebral palsy is caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. So you can have a small lack of oxygen or a more severe lack of oxygen.
00:07:51
Speaker
um So it affects different people differently. Adam was not affected cognitively. um He was effective affected physically, mostly in his lower body.
00:08:02
Speaker
um When he was young, it was also his fine motor skills, but mostly it was in his walking and his gross motor skills. So he was in physical therapy. He had two surgeries, one before kindergarten, one before ninth grade.
00:08:14
Speaker
And through all of that, he was like any other kid. he was ah He got his brown belt in karate. um Six months after his second surgery, he ran a 5K with us.
00:08:28
Speaker
um He ended up working with a personal trainer um after six months after his surgery. So for about
00:08:38
Speaker
six to eight months. He was working with a personal trainer. um He played flag football. And so he was like any other kid. In sixth grade, when he started middle school, which coincided with COVID, but it started before COVID, he started struggling with anxiety. And that was more because of a shift into middle school.
00:08:58
Speaker
you know Lots of teachers telling him, you know not caring what other teachers had for assignments and saying, You need to figure things out for yourself. You're not in elementary school anymore. And Adam was a perfectionist and a people pleaser.
00:09:12
Speaker
And so he internalized that and conditioned himself to not ask for help and for not to not stand up for himself and not advocate for himself, not only in school, but at home.
Adam's Final Days
00:09:24
Speaker
So eventually, um after a few months, we were able to get him into counseling That coincided with the beginning of COVID. And he was in counseling online for 18 months and really did well with it and learned the skills to advocate for himself and stand up for himself.
00:09:40
Speaker
And by the time he went back to school in eighth grade, you know, after a couple months, we stopped the counseling because he was re um integrated back into school and doing very well.
00:09:55
Speaker
So he also, I said, excelled at things. He learned chess in second grade at school and obsessively played chess.
00:10:07
Speaker
That's so good too with the brain with the brain, you know, how it makes you so alert. I do not know how to play chess. My son has tried to teach me and every time I go play with him, he has to tell me the rules all over. yeah And it was great in him learning how to strategize and think five moves ahead. He watched...
00:10:25
Speaker
um YouTube videos of someone who, um
00:10:32
Speaker
what's the word? Narrated chess tournaments and chess games. And just, he was he was obsessive about it, but in a good way. I mean, when he had his phone in ninth grade or 10th grade and the teachers were like, you got to put your phones away.
00:10:46
Speaker
They'd go up to Adam and he's playing chess on his phone. like, well, Shauna, how do i how do I punish him for playing chess? I can't do that. He became a voracious reader once he was able read and read all Harry Potter books in one academic year. So that's the kid he So, you even high school, he struggled with the anxiety a bit, but he was he became a voracious reader once he was able to read um and read all seven harry potter books in one academic year so that's the kid he was um
00:11:18
Speaker
so you know even in high school he struggled with the anxiety a bit but You know, he he was not depressed. um He joined a new club at school the day before he took his life. so yeah that doesn't make Yeah, that doesn't add up, right? and And recently I actually spoke with his therapist from middle school and i was telling her what's going on and she said, Shauna, you didn't miss any signs. There were none.
00:11:50
Speaker
There were a couple incidences a month or and two months before he died that in hindsight, maybe we're jumping off points to something more serious going on.
00:12:03
Speaker
But honestly, I talked to him and he talked to me about them. And I said, you know, do you want to go back and see your counselor? And he said, no, I'm okay. I'm just letting you know about these things, but I'm not going to do anything. I'm i'm okay.
00:12:15
Speaker
And I thought we talked about everything, but you know, like so many people do, he suffered in silence. And that's the scary part, especially with teenagers.
00:12:27
Speaker
You can look at the warning signs and say, oh, a change in sleep pattern. Okay. Well he had trouble sleeping during the week. So he caught up on his sleep on the weekends and sometimes slept till 11 o'clock in the morning.
00:12:40
Speaker
Is that a, a, um, a sign that he's potentially suicidal or is that being a 15 year old boy? Yeah. Cause they stay up till like four in the morning playing. And in his case, probably playing chess till four in the morning.
00:12:55
Speaker
Right. So you never, you don't know. And that's, you know, for parents out there, that's the scary part. um You know, so I, I don't know what was in his phone or on his computer because the night that he took his life,
00:13:14
Speaker
He scrubbed his phone. um He deleted all of his apps. He deleted all of his conversations. He deleted all of his search history. He deleted everything up until his last conversation with someone.
00:13:29
Speaker
um And, you know, the police tried to go through it forensically and see if they could recover anything to find out what was going on. And they could.
Hospital and Grief Experience
00:13:38
Speaker
Wow. He would have had a whole other career there as someone ah in the tech in industry. Like ah just how savvy to be able to know how to do all that. But so that's on that particular day, that night before or the day?
00:13:58
Speaker
So he shot himself a little after um nine o'clock at night. And he was in his father's house. So I only know what I've been told, but what i what I've been told is is consistent with- With what the police have told you and what you- Correct. So he was he went to school that day. um His father told me he did his homework that night. He was in a decent mood.
00:14:27
Speaker
um he His father went to sleep early, um probably went got into bed around eight and- around a little after nine o'clock, he heard a gunshot.
00:14:42
Speaker
um He got out of bed. He went looking for Adam around the house, didn't see him in the bedroom, didn't see him in the family room, didn't see him in his play area and um went and tried to get into a bathroom and the bathroom was locked.
00:15:05
Speaker
So he had to break the handle of the door and go in and he found him in there. um while Adam was alive. He was actually still breathing. he alive And the paramedics came between the 911 call And when the paramedics took Adam to the hospital was literally about 15 minutes.
00:15:35
Speaker
It was very fast. And you knew, when did you know, when did you get the call from his dad? 928. So right after the paramedics left, he called me and told me, um told me that he was still alive. And I drove to the hospital.
00:16:04
Speaker
Um, Adam, I waited, seemed like forever, but it was probably about 40 minutes, maybe an hour.
00:16:16
Speaker
And then, um I was told that, um, he was, that I would be talked to in a room. like ah patient advocate came and got me, um, my old next door neighbors met me at the hospital.
00:16:32
Speaker
And so they were with me. um A patient advocate took us into a room and told us that the doctor would be in to see us. And anyone knows that's not good.
00:16:45
Speaker
um But I was still willing him to be alive. And the neurosurgeon came in, i don't know how long after, maybe five, 10 minutes.
00:17:00
Speaker
And as soon as he walked in the room and sat next to me, I said, is he alive? Cause that's all I wanted. I just wanted him to be alive.
00:17:10
Speaker
And he said, yes, but that he was not going to survive his injuries. Um, so they asked if I wanted to see him and I said, absolutely. Yes.
00:17:26
Speaker
So they cleaned him up a bit. Um, and then took me back to see him. And he was alive and his heart was still beating when I got to be with him.
00:17:42
Speaker
And I got to sit with him and hold his hand and talk to him and kiss him. And probably about 20 minutes later, the doctor came around knelt down next to me and told me that a couple minutes ago, his heart had stopped beating.
00:18:04
Speaker
So it was while you were there and with him that his heart, but they didn't come and tell you like right away, they let you kind of have that moment before they told you that it had been a few minutes before that his heart stopped? Yes.
00:18:19
Speaker
Yes. And I didn't, I think they turned off the machines, the beeping of the machines. Um, I know that the ventilator was still breathing for him.
00:18:34
Speaker
And he said, you know, we're going to turn that off in a couple minutes. And I said, okay. Um, and that was really important for me to be there.
00:18:45
Speaker
Um, I wasn't there when he was born.
00:18:52
Speaker
And that was always kind of an empty spot for me. So to be able to be there when he, when his heart stopped beating was really important to me.
00:19:05
Speaker
And I'm not all family members, not all survivors of suicide loss get that moment.
00:19:14
Speaker
um Not all survivors get to even see their loved one depending on how they died or what happened. um And so you know To say in all of this that I'm lucky is the strangest word to use, but there are times in all of this that i am lucky.
00:19:39
Speaker
I'm lucky that I got to be there with him, that I got to hold his hand, that I got to talk to him. They say that hearing is the last thing to go.
Sharing Adam's Story
00:19:51
Speaker
And so you know I choose to believe that he heard me and he knew I was there.
00:19:58
Speaker
Um, yeah, so i I know the name of the podcast is, you know includes gratitude. And so I am very grateful that I had those, those moments, those minutes with him.
00:20:16
Speaker
Thank you, Shauna, for sharing those last moments with him. And I know it's hard to reshare it, but that talking about it a lot of times is part of the journey as well. And it has been for you, especially since you created a whole advocacy around this topic and and it's been part of your journey.
00:20:41
Speaker
So this was in 2023. Yeah. I think it's um it's important for me to say it, but I also talk about it because it's important for people to hear it. Because, you know, you mentioned the stigma of suicide and people dying by suicide.
00:20:55
Speaker
People don't talk about it. um and And by sharing, I'm hoping that other people will find a safe space to open up to someone or to even open up to themselves and share their stories, whether it's of suicide or any other grief or any other trauma or any other loss.
00:21:18
Speaker
um Because people don't want to hear it and people don't want to talk about it and people don't want to ask about it. Mm hmm. And, you know, for you to be in a position now to ask me questions about it, um I'm sure is not easy.
00:21:34
Speaker
And but I'm, you know, that's why I'm here. i'm I'm here to talk and I'm here to share and I'm here to um hopefully create that safe space for people. it's It's interesting because with what what you said about the asking questions, a lot of times when someone posts, let's say on Facebook, that someone's died,
00:21:57
Speaker
And then they don't, then you're like, there's always this curiosity. Like our brains are always so curious, yet do you always want to also be respectful of a person's journey. And a lot of times the how in that particular moment when you are ah showing your, you know, a support and love to someone who's just lost someone in their life, who's somebody, you know, has died, um,
00:22:25
Speaker
the The how is not usually the most important reason at that moment, right? it's Because ultimately you're just ah you are accompanying the person and supporting the person of their grief.
00:22:37
Speaker
The how and the the details may come later on that you want to ask more in case... well, either to ease your own brain that sometimes like literally you're like, it's it's we try to piece things together. It's like watching a movie and not knowing and like you just see the ending, but you didn't see the beginning and you're like, how did that get to that point, right?
00:22:57
Speaker
Yeah. So it's just normal for us human beings to be curious. And it's oh it's okay to ask timing-wise, the connection that you have with the person.
00:23:09
Speaker
There's different ways of kind of approaching that. So for you, how was... I have a lot of questions, of course, but I'll ask you this. Like, how was it for you when people would reach out to you Did you at any point feel very uncomfortable towards in the beginning sharing
Dealing with Stigma
00:23:29
Speaker
the details of his death? And and did that comfort come from as you were kind of sharing more and later on?
00:23:38
Speaker
Or from the beginning, were you open to sharing that the cause of death had been by suicide? I was open from the beginning. um I have always been one gets through things by talking things out.
00:23:56
Speaker
um So I never hit it. I never didn't say it. I never, you know, I would talk to my friends or call my my boss or people would reach out to me. And I never,
00:24:12
Speaker
said anything other than um he took his life or he shot himself or, um and then i also kept relaying what actually happened.
00:24:25
Speaker
um And that was to people who were very close to me, my very good close friends um who knew all of the steps of Adopting him and his journey with cerebral palsy and his journey with anxiety and his journey with everything. I always talk about him.
00:24:44
Speaker
um And actually, i was trying to figure out if I would be able to give his eulogy. And I didn't know how I was going to be able to do that. But frankly, I didn't want anyone else to do it.
00:24:59
Speaker
So I was trying to figure out how I would be able to give his eulogy because I didn't want anyone else to do it. And I was talking to a friend and she said to me, Shauna, all you ever have done is talk about Adam.
00:25:14
Speaker
So just talk about him. So I wrote him a letter and I read the letter as his eulogy at at his um memorial service.
00:25:26
Speaker
And looking back, I never mentioned in the letter that it was a suicide, but I figured that people there knew. i was never hiding it. um But I also, in the 15 months, because when we're recording this, it's been about 15 and a half months.
Remembering Adam
00:25:46
Speaker
In the time since, one of the things I've learned on my grief journey is to, I believe it's to quote Dr. Seuss, don't be sad because it's over, be happy because it happened.
00:26:02
Speaker
So I try not to just remember how he died because that was one moment. um I try to remember how he lived, which was 15 and a half years.
00:26:16
Speaker
And when he was growing up, he was just this happy kid who had a thirst for knowledge about anything.
00:26:28
Speaker
And we even coined the phrase at one point, he didn't have an attitude, he had Adam-tude.
00:26:35
Speaker
And so I, you know, I, I try to remember him that way. And I try to, um you know, I, I guess I try to live that way, but that's not as easy to do. Yeah, you know, i i heard this, forget if it was in one of my, sometimes because I have so many conversations about about death that I don't remember if it was somebody I was interviewing or when I used to facilitate um in youth groups, in grief support groups, but that we all make decisions every single day of our lives.
00:27:11
Speaker
Yeah. And it with suicide, it just happens to be ah one decision that a person took that they can't take back on, right? Or they can't remake. And we we all have those choices. good but like Whether you ten you know choose to not stop at a stop sign a moment, that's a choice, right? That moment. And sometimes that could be the the decision that ends up causing your life, you know, as well. Or if you're speeding, that could end up being the decision that costs your life. In this case, you know, it was one, one act yet to be remembered by that last choice while you had so many other moments in, in life that, that were just, you know, beautiful and other choices that were made that were, what that were nice. It's, it it's not, it's not,
00:28:05
Speaker
it It doesn't sum up a person by remembering them. some time It doesn't define them. Yes, that's that's the right word. um Now, it's 2023. but so it's twenty twenty three What month? What what date was November 15th, 2023. I'm in awe, first of all, not only that you are at a point that you're talking about it, I'm in awe of the fact that you have ah a website and already are doing all these things of support because it it for for many people, yes, doing something active and already in honor of someone is part of their journey.
00:28:45
Speaker
So take us into that. At what point then you did you... in your, in your grief journey, did you say, I need to do more?
Advocacy and Speak on Suicide
00:28:55
Speaker
more Well, in his eulogy, um we, Adam and I shared as, as many people do Hamilton.
00:29:03
Speaker
ah He knew every word to every song. And for his 11th birthday on his 11th birthday, literally days before the country shut down, i took him to Hamilton. So was it there? Was it, did did it come to Florida or did you go to Broadway?
00:29:17
Speaker
It was in Miami. Oh, awesome. It was in Miami. um So the last song in Hamilton is Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Your Story. And that always hit me.
00:29:29
Speaker
And Adam and I talked about it sometimes in the car. And I would even say, you know, are you going to tell my story? And so as part of his eulogy, I promised him that his story wouldn't end.
00:29:46
Speaker
that he had too much going for him to let him end at 15. At that point, I had no belief that I'd literally be talking about him and telling his story because he would not be happy with me for it.
00:30:01
Speaker
um He tended to be, especially as a teenager, he tended to be private. um But so I knew I was going to do something, but I didn't know what.
00:30:13
Speaker
I was, again, lucky, i have gratitude for the fact that there is a group in in Broward County, Florida called the Loss Team, Local Outreach to Suicide Survivors.
00:30:26
Speaker
And these groups exist in different places, but I think it's one of two in Florida. And they are a group that um offers support groups and support to survivors of suicide loss.
00:30:43
Speaker
The detective, the night at the hospital, told me about them. So I was in touch with them very quickly. And I started going to support groups two weeks after Adam died.
00:30:56
Speaker
And so, again, i was around people who would listen and who knew what I was going through. And I never felt alone about anything that I was feeling or thinking or doing um because that's that's part of the stigma of of anything is that you feel alone.
00:31:18
Speaker
In a mental health struggle, you feel alone. um If you're a survivor of suicide loss, if you're struggling with suicide, you feel very alone. And so very quickly, i had a community of people who understood.
00:31:32
Speaker
And that has been pivotal and so important for me. um So i had that. So I've been talking about it. um I'm a lawyer by trade.
00:31:45
Speaker
So I'm also very used to talking and very comfortable talking in front of groups. So about five months, six months after Adam died, i had a friend at work who did a lunchtime talk about her experience with colon um colonoscopies and her first colonoscopy and being diagnosed with colon cancer.
00:32:13
Speaker
And she did a lunchtime talk through, you know, on video, on ah video at, through work and talked about it.
00:32:24
Speaker
And I sat there and I'm like, I want to do this about Adam. I want other parents to know that it can happen to them because I never thought it would happen to me.
00:32:37
Speaker
And i wanted I want people to know. and so um I started Speak on Suicide and at first I didn't know what I had no idea what it was going to be.
00:32:51
Speaker
um And the first thing I did was I brought i bought bracelets that said, it's okay to SOS, which can be Speak on Suicide or it can be just ask for help.
00:33:03
Speaker
And I put the suicide hotline on it on them, 988. And so at first that's what it was. And then... I started thinking about speaking and i went to a NAMI conference, the National Alliance for Mental Illness.
00:33:20
Speaker
I went to a NAMI conference in Miami and started talking to people to try and make connections. And I heard a man named Dennis Gillen speak. And for anyone who doesn't know him, go find him and look him up.
00:33:33
Speaker
He ah now has a podcast called Half a Sorrow and he's a nonprofit called Half a Sorrow. And I heard him speak and he lost two brothers to suicide 30 and 40 years ago. And he talks about his journey.
00:33:48
Speaker
And i I looked at him and I said, that's what I want to do. And so it just, it's evolved very naturally. um and now i I speak to anyone who will listen. I'm part of, i well, then I developed a website um and i speaking engagements.
00:34:08
Speaker
And so now i speak to anyone and everyone who will listen. um I'm and part of different suicide prevention coalitions and different groups.
00:34:19
Speaker
and I'm trying to speak it at different um ah workshops. And and i spoke at the I was part of a panel at the Broward Mental Health Summit last year and and was part of a panel in front of 700 people.
00:34:35
Speaker
So now I'm just doing whatever I can.
Incorporating Adam into Life Events
00:34:41
Speaker
But a beautiful way to live on his legacy too of just, you know, bringing this awareness. It's like we never really know like what someone's journey on this planet is and what our what our purpose is really a lot of times.
00:34:58
Speaker
And sometimes our lives are short. My sister died at 18 and sometimes people like, oh my gosh, but she didn't even go to college or she didn't get married.
00:35:09
Speaker
And and you we we think of those things as the things that define us, yet we don't. We touch so many people's lives in our day to day and we impact people on a day to day. So even Adam at the age of 15 had already had an impact on so many people's lives and and and touch so many people's lives, including your own of coming into your own life to be your child. Do you know at the age ah before one?
00:35:38
Speaker
So everyone's journey is different. But then with you continuing on now this legacy of speaking on this topic, I wouldn't have this podcast, by the way, if I had not experienced grief, right?
00:35:50
Speaker
I wouldn't have it. So, so right. So we all have certain things and it's not that you're like, Again, it's that the gratitude is I'm not grateful that this happened and hence, no, I'm just, I'm grateful, period. And I'm also grieving. I'm grateful I can have this effect and do this for others.
00:36:13
Speaker
It doesn't take away from the grief. So you are grateful that you're able to educate others about the topic and bring this to the you table for conversation and educate others about the topic of suicide.
00:36:28
Speaker
And at the same time, be grieving Adam. you You are getting married as we're talking about this. And I am curious about your home. Is your home right now where you're going to be living when you get married? And is this the home where Adam lived?
00:36:47
Speaker
And how... this part of him not being in your life right now physically, how you're still finding ways of incorporating him into your day-to-day? Because you mentioned something even with even with the wedding. I'm even curious how he's going to come and play.
00:37:05
Speaker
If you can share about that. So I um separated and divorced, got separated and divorced from from Adam's dad when he was three years old. um So I moved into the the home where I'm living back then.
00:37:19
Speaker
um And so this is where i raised Adam since he was three. So there's memories everywhere. His room is still as it was.
00:37:30
Speaker
um Pretty much the only thing I changed was there was a basket of clean laundry on his bed. And so I've put it away, but that's kind of it. um I have pictures of him all around the house.
00:37:43
Speaker
I have two blown up pictures from the funeral that I still have in the house. um So he's everywhere.
00:37:56
Speaker
um When this happened, I was with my now fiance, his name is Ed. um I was with him. He was living about two hours away because of his job.
00:38:10
Speaker
So he drove to the hospital that night, um got there after Adam died, but he got there for me. And then he started staying here full time and commuting back to work and eventually started living here officially um and then got a job closer to here.
00:38:32
Speaker
so Now he's a four hour drive. Yeah. A four hour drive total in a day. That's a big one. So we will live together here.
00:38:44
Speaker
um He is wonderful. He was wonderful with Adam, loved him so much. And he and Adam had their own special relationship and certain things that they did having their guy time.
00:38:56
Speaker
And Ed is wonderful about my grief. He's very understanding. He's had to learn a lot, but he's been willing to learn. um when Soon after Adam died, i you know clearly I was crying a lot.
00:39:11
Speaker
And one night Ed said to me, um yeah i hate to see you like this. I hate to see you crying every day. i hate to see you hurting so much. So am I allowed to curse?
00:39:23
Speaker
Yes, yes, yes. So I looked at him and I said, tough shit. I said, I lost my son. i will be sad forever. I will cry at times forever.
00:39:34
Speaker
You need to learn to be okay with that and just hold me and let me cry. And he did. um So we will we will live here together. And at some point we will move out of this house and I will deal with it then, but I'm not ready to now.
00:39:51
Speaker
um So we incorporate Adam into everything and I literally incorporate him into um me. i This necklace that I have is actually Adam's fingerprint and his birthstone.
00:40:09
Speaker
um The funeral home told me that they could take fingerprints and that there are companies that do jewelry and other things. So I've, I ordered this immediately and I've had, I've worn it.
00:40:20
Speaker
since about I got it about a week and a half after he died. So he's he's everywhere. um In terms of the wedding, ed and I are both Jewish.
00:40:33
Speaker
So we have a ketubah, which is kind of like the Jewish wedding license. It's it's the contract that we sign, um committing to each other.
00:40:44
Speaker
And we incorporated Adam into that. it essentially, there's a part that to me has vows of what we promise to be for each other. And we added promisess promises about honoring Adam and and keeping him in our lives.
00:41:02
Speaker
So we he's literally into our marriage contract. um So he will be there. um That's beautiful. Thank you. His school, after he died, the um Kids in in his grade, in the 10th grade, got together for a couple lunch periods and painted rocks for me.
00:41:26
Speaker
So I have those rocks and I take one with me everywhere. And so we're going to have rocks at a couple of them. I'm traveling, so I can't take all of them. but um' You don't want to just pay extra luggage and just big hit take a whole but but For 53 rocks.
00:41:43
Speaker
um But we are, we are incorporating him in, into everything, into everything. um And people can think of this, what they want, but this is what I do. And this is how I do things.
00:41:57
Speaker
I have jewelry that I've had made with his ashes. um you know yeah I interviewed someone that that's actually exactly what she, she's in Colombia, but she does that as well as with, um she can actually incorporate not only jewelry, at ashes in the jewelry, but also ah breast milk. She lost a child, a newborn. And so she, they like droplets of even breast milk within the jewelry piece so that that mother, daughter you know, mother mother child bond continues to. So there's,
00:42:28
Speaker
This company started doing that. Yeah. And I think they can do hair also. um But our wedding bands, because I wanted Ed to have some and something. So our wedding bands will have, his have we have them already. Our wedding bands have his ashes in them.
00:42:45
Speaker
So he's incorporated into everything. Yeah. And everybody, and that's a thing. It's that you said that people can think whatever, that's the thing. People can think whatever they want. Cause again, it is not their journey. It's yours and whatever brings solace and comfort to the person that is grieving.
00:43:01
Speaker
That's, that's, I think what's the most important and what brings that connection and what feels, yeah makes you feel connected to your son is what is most most important And the same goes with even
Grief Processes and Rituals
00:43:16
Speaker
the bedroom. Some people, there's people that sometimes, I know of someone that lost their child right at, like as it was a stillbirth. And when they got home, the parent had already, the parent of the, child of the it's a grown ah it was a grown person. They come home and the nursery is already gone. Right.
00:43:33
Speaker
So they never even had a chance to even, grieve that, grieve their child, because it was already like disappeared. And other people keep things longer and there's no time for things. It's whatever, like you said, it will be the right time when it is the right time. it's like There's not a number, a specific number.
00:43:54
Speaker
um Right. there's There's no right or wrong way to grieve. at all. In all of that. In all of that. Yes. Everything is just, you know, how how it is and that is what it's ah appropriate for for each individual. Now, when somebody else is choosing, in this other case, it was the other, it was up it was the lady's mom that that did that. So she didn't have a say in her grief. It was her, you know, that was someone else controlling how...
00:44:22
Speaker
she was to grieve so that's a little it's like allow people to grieve their own their own way like in in your case with all all the different things it's it's so beautiful to see how you're incorporating him into all these different aspects of your life bringing his name into every conversation and keeping connected in that way. Now, what are ways in which you feel that you get these little taps on the shoulder?
00:44:55
Speaker
Are there any particular moments that you feel these little taps on the shoulder that you're like, okay, i know you're I know you're here in some shape or form? Sometimes.
00:45:08
Speaker
um Not literally a tap on the shoulder. yeah now you You know what I'm saying. it and that's yeah that Those moments of like that full on connection, whether it's talking about him, whether it's, yeah, like how how we continue these connections.
00:45:22
Speaker
Well, for me, the connection is is talking about him all the time. But when I feel him and when I talk to him um is a lot when I'm outside. um And, and,
00:45:34
Speaker
For me, I tend to go to things that we connected on. So when I would drive him to school in the morning and the moon was still up and visible, we always thought that was really cool.
00:45:47
Speaker
So I talked to him when I see the moon and I feel him in the moon and the stars. i love that. And the clouds. Yeah. um Birds. um They say the cardinal, I have yet to see a cardinal.
00:46:02
Speaker
but I feel him with any bird flying and maybe that's because he had trouble walking, but I feel like, you know, I, talk to him with birds and and in the wind.
00:46:14
Speaker
So I feel like that's when he's talking to me. Nature is so powerful. Nature is like, it's not only like this connector to something more, but it's also just so healing to be in it, in nature, right? Do you feel that? Yeah.
00:46:29
Speaker
Yes. Yes. Even though as a teenager, um you know, we took some nature walks, but if I wanted him to go back to a place and go again, he's like, mom, I've seen it. I don't need to do that again.
00:46:41
Speaker
So that sounds like me seeing the Grand Canyon at the age of 15 and me being like, we drive all the way there. ah um I lived in Colombia and we get to the Grand Canyon and I literally look down I'm like, okay, can we go now? My dad's like, what? you know how many years it took for that to be? So he makes fun of me now as an adult that I'm like, oh, look at that sunset and look at nature and look at this. and and that the And he's like, is this coming from the same person that looked at the Grand Canyon for like, you know, two minutes and wanted to leave? So I get it. I was i was just like Adam. I was that teenager that was like, okay, seen it. Let's go. i don't have to come back.
00:47:17
Speaker
ah Right, right.
00:47:21
Speaker
But he... um
00:47:26
Speaker
I don't even remember what we were talking about. sorry, I'd love to make you lose it. You were saying that he was, when you go on walks, I interrupted. When you go on walks and do nature, that he would sometimes not go to the same place again, because he'd already been there.
00:47:42
Speaker
I have been almost desperate to dream about him because people say they dream about their loved one and, and, things like that. And I i haven't. um But I did the other night, ah a couple weeks ago.
00:47:56
Speaker
um Ed and I were out for dinner and there was a ah glass of water on the table. And you know how when there's condensation on the table, certain times the glass will just move on its own?
00:48:09
Speaker
Well, it happened that night. And that was something that always fascinated Adam. He was amazed at how that happened and why it didn't always happen. And The table was flat, but it would still occur.
00:48:22
Speaker
So it happened that night. And then that night I dreamt about him for the first time and he was in the dream. And i remember saying in the dream, Adam, don't let this be a dream. You have to tell me that you're really here, that I'm not going to lose you again and that I'm not dreaming.
00:48:42
Speaker
And he said, no, mom, you're not dreaming. I'm really here. And I'll always be here. And that he was proud of me. And I knew he was always proud of me in life.
00:48:54
Speaker
But like I said before, I also know that he wouldn't like me talking about him. So that was kind of like him giving me his approval about talking about him and sharing him and his life and his story.
00:49:08
Speaker
So that was really, to say the least, really special for me. but and And then i the whole next day, I really felt this extra warmth around me and that I really felt his presence.
Encouraging Open Discussions on Mental Health
00:49:25
Speaker
Wow. Yeah, I do feel him. And I think a lot of it is just being open to it. o And it's it's really like, I remember the dreams I had to have a friend that say would dream with my sister. And I'm like, how come she's dreamed with my sister and I haven't? Or somebody would dream with my mom and I hadn't. Or, you know, you kind of get a little jealous when others are. But sometimes that just, maybe you do sometimes dream more than you just happen to remember when you wake up. We just have to have that in mind too. It just doesn't mean we don't dream. It just doesn't mean we don't remember when we wake up.
00:49:58
Speaker
But ah what I was going to say is when you're saying about him not liking to talk, you talking about him, which by the way, it's a case of almost every single teenager because like yeah yeah I respect that from my teenagers, myself, that they're like, why are you talking about that?
00:50:13
Speaker
But, you know, I think that when... we die. Like our ego is associated with our physical being. It has a nothing to do with like, I believe in aspect of soul. You know, our soul, our essence doesn't have an ego. So I feel that when we die, us talking about another person, the ego is no longer there. So therefore, they probably don't care anymore at that point there's no ah you know There's no no ego associated anymore to the individual. So he's in the fact that, again, it's his legacy living on, I'm sure he, and like he said, he you he is proud of you. he is He's there with you. And i I love that you're sharing him and these memories and the the nuances and of not only
00:51:02
Speaker
like but his personality, but even just now cut how he he still comes through with that same personality in your in your life. Shana, as we wrap up, I always like to ask this, is there anything I have not asked you that you want to make sure our listeners take from this call, from this call, from this conversation?
00:51:24
Speaker
I want people to have conversations. um I think it's important to talk to anyone, to reach out, There are places to reach out um for people if they need to talk.
00:51:37
Speaker
You know, the suicide hotline isn't just for people who are struggling with suicide. It can be for someone who is supporting someone who's struggling with suicide and they can reach out also. um There are different groups that have different resources.
00:51:52
Speaker
um AFSP, the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. NAMI, the National Alliance of mental for Mental Illness. um There are different state and local groups.
00:52:05
Speaker
And you know thankfully we have the internet and and people can look for those, but you know finding people who have that shared experience, whatever that shared experience is, is so important and finding people to talk to And then listening to other people without judgment, sometimes just being there to listen um You mentioned earlier that you know you want to ask what happened when someone died, but that may not be the time.
00:52:39
Speaker
Something someone can say is, when you're ready, if you want to talk about it, I'm here to listen. So it's not that salacious, oh, what happened?
00:52:50
Speaker
But it's offering support, but on their time, when they're ready. So I think just being able to talk and being able to listen is is what I want people to take from this, whether it's about suicide, mental health, or anything.
Support in Grief and Conclusion
00:53:08
Speaker
um i think that's so important. Thank you so much, Shauna. Yes, that is important. it it It is the fact of just showing up for someone else, holding space, being there, that in itself is enough.
00:53:23
Speaker
ah Somebody I had Rabbi Steve Leder, who I had on my podcast actually a couple times, one of the things he said that I that i really liked is that when you show up to support someone else, show up as you.
00:53:36
Speaker
Like be you. Don't be sad all of a sudden. Like if I'm usually... ah mine shows up a lot of times in humor that just because that's just who I am. And it might come like weird, but if I were to come to your house and be like, and yes, I, of course I'm supportive stuff, but if I were to come in and say things, I just don't like kind of like cookie cutter type of phrases, you'd be like,
00:53:57
Speaker
who took possession? Like my, right my, not only am I grieving, but now my friends are possessed by this. I don't know what being that's saying these kinds of things. Like they're not even being themselves. So just be you as you're supporting other people in their, in their grief and support them. And, yeah and, in and also like know that they are them too. Like you're still, you like, if you you, if you're like have this wittiness sense of humor that might show up in your grief,
00:54:24
Speaker
as well right yeah it does um sometimes there's dark humor ah that shows up can you still hear me my mic is kind of doing funny things okay um yeah so being being being knowing that that those things still show up in our grief and and not judging those ways in which it shows up either it shows up and something else I want to add you know
00:54:48
Speaker
i'm I started Speak on Suicide and I'm talking about Adam and I'm talking about me and g grief and healing. Other people start um nonprofits and and raise money to do different things.
00:55:03
Speaker
You know, it doesn't have to be something that monumental. At our support groups, um which by the way, I still go to four to six times a month. um at At our support groups, you know I'll point out that showing up and being there for other people and listening to them and offering your experiences back.
00:55:24
Speaker
So just going to that active of listening as a friend, that's doing something. That is providing people with help and and being there.
00:55:35
Speaker
And so it doesn't have to be some big grand thing for you to find a purpose. and And actually for me, it's not necessarily find a purpose, but it's finding my identity.
00:55:48
Speaker
Because I lost who I was. Yeah, because that's that's huge because it he's your only child. And and so that is a whole other aspect of the grief. And that would be a secondary loss to talk about is that aspect aspect of identity that if you as a mother now have lost your only child, then how do you then...
00:56:12
Speaker
represent yourself. You're still Adam's mother, regardless of whether he's, he you know, you're still a mother, right? it Regardless of whether he's here or not, but still that aspect of identity is also shifted. So yes, that you're right. Like there's so many things that change. So finding your identity within the grief.
00:56:29
Speaker
and And I tell this to people too, anytime I have authors or like you're like has, you know, advocacy or myself with a podcast, this, this, not everybody has to,
00:56:40
Speaker
carry on the legacy in the same way. Like you said, it it could just be doing random acts of kindness in honor of every person. Nobody even has to know that you're doing it in honor of someone else. Nobody even, you know, it's just who we are and how we carry ourselves in our everyday that we carry on the legacy of those that have died.
00:56:59
Speaker
we We have the we have that that power of being able to do that. every day. So thank you so much, Shauna. Thank you. Again, this was Shauna Winter. I'm going to say Shauna Winter.
00:57:11
Speaker
It sounds like a soap opera type of name or an not author. I'm waiting for the book now. I'm sure probably there's a book coming in there, Shauna Winter. And again, for her website is speakonsuicide.com.
00:57:23
Speaker
The show links will be at the bottom and you can also find her on Instagram or any other social media information will again be linked below. Shauna Thank you again for sharing your own journey and sharing about Adam with us too.
00:57:39
Speaker
And now anytime I see a chess board, a chessboard I'll be thinking of Adam. that that's goingnna be Anytime I see my son, that's that's what that's who's going to come to mind will be anytime I see chess. So just know that I'll be thinking of him.
00:57:54
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you for being here.
00:58:03
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief.
00:58:16
Speaker
If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way, to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:58:31
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me.
00:58:44
Speaker
And thanks once again for tuning in Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray In Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.