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Listener Stories: Divorced and Child-Free By Choice
29 Plays2 years ago
First episode in our FDS listener slice-of-life series! We interview June about her journey from pick me to queen, her decision to become child-free-by-choice, and the lessons she learned about dating and female leadership along the way.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest's Journey
00:00:06
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm Ro.
00:00:12
Speaker
And I'm Savannah.
00:00:14
Speaker
So today is the first in our series of listener inspired slice of life FDS episodes where we get a chance to interview our FDS listeners and get some insight into their personal journey from pick me to queen or I don't know, maybe not pick me to queen because some people have been queen energy from day one, which I totally admire.
00:00:34
Speaker
I'm slightly jealous of as well.
00:00:37
Speaker
Slightly jealous, right?
00:00:40
Speaker
But today we are absolutely delighted to welcome June to our podcast.
00:00:45
Speaker
June is very active within our Discord community and we are really, really excited to interview her today.
00:00:52
Speaker
So welcome to the FDS podcast, June.
Discovering FDS and Self-Realization
00:00:55
Speaker
Thanks, ladies.
00:00:57
Speaker
Ro, I will say it is Pick Me to Queen.
00:01:00
Speaker
That is, I think, an accurate title for my journey, for sure.
00:01:05
Speaker
We've all been there.
00:01:05
Speaker
Maybe that could be the title of the FDS book, Pick Me to Queen.
00:01:09
Speaker
Pick Me to Queen.
00:01:11
Speaker
I love it.
00:01:13
Speaker
So, Jean, thank you so much for being willing to join us and to share your story, because it sounds like you've had such an interesting journey.
00:01:22
Speaker
And I think our listeners would really benefit from hearing a bit more.
00:01:26
Speaker
But, you know, first of all, can you tell us about, you know, your background specifically in dating?
00:01:31
Speaker
You know, so what was your dating philosophy before?
00:01:34
Speaker
How you came to find FDS?
00:01:36
Speaker
How you found FDS?
00:01:38
Speaker
initially because I remember when I like first came across FDS I was going through the midst of ending a relationship that should have really ended like within three months but I dragged out three years and I felt personally attacked first so it'll be interesting to see how you know not only you found FDS but your initial response to FDS as well
00:02:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of what you just said resonates with me.
00:02:05
Speaker
I started dating the person that I married very young, started dating at 18.
00:02:10
Speaker
And so I wouldn't say I had a fully fledged dating philosophy at that age.
00:02:15
Speaker
I just was kind of... I met somebody and we got along well.
00:02:19
Speaker
So let's just see where it goes was kind of the philosophy.
00:02:23
Speaker
Been a serial monogamist my whole life.
00:02:27
Speaker
And so that was always really important to me.
00:02:30
Speaker
I think my parents have been married for 36 years.
00:02:34
Speaker
And so having that role model for me was really important to find a partnership
Radical vs. Liberal Feminism
00:02:40
Speaker
that I thought was similar to what they had without really understanding what that meant at that age.
00:02:46
Speaker
And so, you know, after sort of
00:02:48
Speaker
going through this relationship and it ultimately ending in a divorce.
00:02:52
Speaker
That's actually right around the time that I found FDS.
00:02:55
Speaker
And so kind of Savannah, like you said, I felt personally attacked, like, wow, how was I missing all of these things?
00:03:02
Speaker
And I think, you know,
00:03:03
Speaker
I live in an area that's very liberal.
00:03:05
Speaker
So libfem ideology is very strong where I live.
00:03:10
Speaker
And so I was sort of like kind of under that too.
00:03:15
Speaker
And so this idea of all this kind of radical feminism was really new for me, although, you know, liberal feminism was a
00:03:23
Speaker
really a concept that I was very familiar with and kind of comfortable with.
00:03:27
Speaker
So when I sort of joined FDS, and I saw these radical feminism ideologies, they were kind of, in a lot of ways, at odds with how I knew feminism.
00:03:37
Speaker
And so there was a lot of kind of like self reconciliation I had to do with sort of my understanding and my viewpoint of the world as a woman.
00:03:44
Speaker
So it's like, it's definitely been a journey since then of sort of
00:03:48
Speaker
like stripping down a lot of that stuff and looking back at interactions and decisions and treatment that I accepted through my life, personally and professionally, it's taken some time of like self work and kind of like, consoling my past self, if that makes sense.
00:04:06
Speaker
Accepting who you were at the time, right?
00:04:08
Speaker
That's always the hard thing.
00:04:09
Speaker
Whenever you grow as a person like man, past me was so cringe.
00:04:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:15
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:15
Speaker
Like, girl, were you okay?
00:04:17
Speaker
Like, that was like the question I asked myself a lot through that
Divorce and Personal Growth
00:04:20
Speaker
journey.
00:04:20
Speaker
But being kind to myself and going, you know what, like, we all grow at different points in our life.
00:04:25
Speaker
And sometimes it takes really painful experiences to get there.
00:04:28
Speaker
And I really have to say that
00:04:30
Speaker
I think FDS really came into my life at a time that I needed it the absolute most.
00:04:34
Speaker
I'm going through this divorce and my whole life is changing in really significant ways.
00:04:41
Speaker
I was 30 when this happened.
00:04:44
Speaker
And so that's a transition into a new decade in your life too.
00:04:49
Speaker
And so...
00:04:50
Speaker
FDS coming into my life at that point was it was seriously a lifeline for me.
00:04:54
Speaker
I mean, honestly, because it was like, I'm getting stripped down and I have this opportunity to rebuild myself and my life in a way that is going to make me wiser and more resilient in the next phase.
00:05:06
Speaker
Makes perfect sense.
00:05:07
Speaker
I think with FDS as a philosophy, why it's so difficult for people to understand, like, well, I don't actually don't think it's difficult.
00:05:15
Speaker
Why some people claim it's difficult to understand or that they have trouble reconciling it with their feminist principles is because like, we're not
00:05:22
Speaker
feminists that are doing it based on the idea that there's like a simple philosophy to follow.
00:05:29
Speaker
It's more or less like what is a strategy to get the things that we want that's going to benefit us more.
00:05:34
Speaker
But I think it's like such a subtle shift in thinking.
00:05:36
Speaker
Maybe not subtle.
00:05:37
Speaker
I actually think it's a massive shift in thinking.
00:05:39
Speaker
Yeah, I would agree.
00:05:40
Speaker
Right.
00:05:41
Speaker
I really think about how women are conditioned through our lives.
00:05:44
Speaker
It's selflessness, right?
00:05:45
Speaker
Like that's the greatest thing that we can have as a woman is to give to everybody else around us and never ask for anything in return.
00:05:52
Speaker
And, you know, when I think about some of the missteps that I've taken in relationships in the past, it's really centered in that it is centered in a selflessness.
00:06:01
Speaker
in giving, giving, giving and accepting, frankly, crumbs in return from a partner.
00:06:07
Speaker
And so that you're right, that shift to, you know, what many people would assume or label as selfish of, I put me first, and I am making decisions that are beneficial to me and beneficial to women in general.
00:06:25
Speaker
it feels it goes against how we're socialized.
00:06:27
Speaker
Certainly, you know, I'm, I'm American.
00:06:29
Speaker
So how we're socialized here, I wouldn't imagine it's much better in most parts of the world, but, you know, definitely socialize to give, give, give to everybody else.
00:06:38
Speaker
So that is a tough shift.
00:06:40
Speaker
And it feels kind of, you have to like flex that muscle, right?
00:06:43
Speaker
You have to kind of work that muscle out that it's okay to put yourself first, you know, because no one else is going to.
00:06:50
Speaker
So let's talk about your divorce then in relation to that revelation.
00:06:54
Speaker
Yeah,
Recognizing Relationship Patterns and Red Flags
00:06:55
Speaker
I think, you know, kind of how I was talking about, you know, kind of being kind to my past self and showing her some grace.
00:07:03
Speaker
I think one of the really difficult things that came out of FDS for me was, you know, this realization that there was abuse in my relationship, in my marriage that I was not aware of in the moment.
00:07:17
Speaker
I think I was aware of it, but it really kind of honed it in for me, like some of these just kind of changing my perspective on relationships and like the treatment that I should expect, I guess.
00:07:31
Speaker
And that probably was the single hardest realization for me through my FDS journey was that
00:07:38
Speaker
okay, my marriage ended and that was difficult and marriages end for all kinds of reasons, but also realizing that, oh, the treatment that you received throughout the entire marriage was so much less than you deserve.
00:07:52
Speaker
I think that was probably the hardest thing to reconcile.
00:07:55
Speaker
And even now, years later, it is still something that I am dealing with and it's still something that I get...
00:08:03
Speaker
In my current relationship that I'm like acutely aware and really critical of a lot of the time, because there's such a creep on that, like on poor treatment in a relationship, I feel like it creeps up on you.
00:08:18
Speaker
You let one thing slide and then another thing slide.
00:08:20
Speaker
And it kind of is like this cascading effect of indicating to your partner that like, oh, I can treat you this way.
00:08:26
Speaker
And oh, this thing's okay now because you let it slide.
00:08:30
Speaker
And I think that's something that's been a really big learning experience for me through both FDS strategy and then being a part of the community and talking to other women who have gone through similar situations to me and sort of talking through some of those realizations with them.
00:08:48
Speaker
I think like just going back to what you said about poor treatment in relationships being a cascading effect, I think that's such a powerful thing to say.
00:08:57
Speaker
And it is really, really true as well.
00:08:59
Speaker
And that's one of the reasons why FDS, we've always said, you know, watch out for the red flags.
00:09:05
Speaker
Oftentimes, you know, low value men, they start off small to almost test your boundaries.
00:09:10
Speaker
You know, when they see they can get away with, you know, something, they'll gradually escalate almost like the boiling frog analogy.
00:09:18
Speaker
as well.
00:09:18
Speaker
But I wanted to touch on as well, because you mentioned at the top of the episode, obviously your parents have been married for quite some time.
00:09:25
Speaker
And, you know, you yourself identify as a monogamous, somebody who believes in long relationships, you know, so what was, I guess, the process of
00:09:33
Speaker
you know, like when it came to actually ending your marriage, because I would imagine that was a huge decision.
00:09:38
Speaker
And especially as women, we almost feel under so much pressure to make it work with the person that we've picked or the person that we've married, even when it's clearly not working as well.
00:09:49
Speaker
So walking away, even though in our head, we know it's the right thing to do, but actually doing it can be very, very difficult.
00:09:57
Speaker
You know, one of the things that I struggled with in my marriage, and I think so many women struggle with, and I think it's a many women, it takes kind of getting older and more experience to pick this up, but really setting boundaries was is hard.
00:10:10
Speaker
And, you know, that cascading effect that the boiling frog analogy is so perfect for sort of what I experienced.
00:10:16
Speaker
And I think a lot of women experience in their relationships.
00:10:18
Speaker
And I just got to a point where it just kind of it boiled over, if you will, that there was kind of a final boundary that I had that was like, it was a non negotiable for me.
00:10:28
Speaker
And it was infidelity.
00:10:30
Speaker
And my ex husband was not faithful to me.
00:10:34
Speaker
And that was the thing that I just, there was no way to come back from that for me.
00:10:39
Speaker
And so when he came home after business trip and had said, I don't think I'm going to be married anymore.
00:10:46
Speaker
And I mean, this was just like a shock to me.
00:10:49
Speaker
I mean, a complete shock to me.
00:10:51
Speaker
And then realizing, oh, he had gone on a business trip with a coworker and now they're texting all the time.
00:10:59
Speaker
And so I think that for me was like, that was the nail in the coffin.
00:11:02
Speaker
I didn't see a path forward.
00:11:04
Speaker
And I just, I mean, talk about gray rock.
00:11:07
Speaker
Like I just gray rocked at that point.
00:11:09
Speaker
I was just
Choosing Self in Marriage and Religion
00:11:10
Speaker
so done.
00:11:10
Speaker
I had completely dead to me at that point.
00:11:13
Speaker
I mean, it was just like this switch flipped where I just was like, so done.
00:11:18
Speaker
And I'm actually really, you know, it was horrible and it's like incredibly painful, but it was the thing that I needed to be able to walk away.
00:11:27
Speaker
And so in that regard, I'm thankful for that because I think you're right.
00:11:30
Speaker
I probably would have, you know, I would have kept trying and figuring it out and
00:11:35
Speaker
I remember when I was going through, and I'm very close with my parents.
00:11:38
Speaker
I'm an only child.
00:11:39
Speaker
I'm incredibly close with my parents.
00:11:41
Speaker
And I'm so lucky to have such wonderful parents.
00:11:45
Speaker
And I remember I was at my parents' house when I was kind of like going through this process.
00:11:49
Speaker
And my dad asked me, you know, I was kind of like, well, what do I do?
00:11:53
Speaker
Do I stay?
00:11:53
Speaker
You know, do I stay?
00:11:55
Speaker
Do I walk away?
00:11:55
Speaker
What do I do?
00:11:56
Speaker
And my dad asked me this question that really stuck with me.
00:11:59
Speaker
He said, if you stay, what are you losing?
00:12:02
Speaker
What are you losing?
00:12:03
Speaker
And I thought about it and I'm like, I'm losing myself.
00:12:06
Speaker
I am indicating, I will be indicating in this relationship that you can do and say anything to me and I will stay.
00:12:14
Speaker
And that right there, I think in the next few days, I filled out the paperwork and I followed the paperwork and I was divorced 11 days later.
00:12:22
Speaker
I remember just like, it was such a poignant conversation with my dad.
00:12:25
Speaker
And, you know, my parents are very much like, you got to make the decision for you, but really good at asking the right questions to get me thinking.
00:12:34
Speaker
And that question just really, it stuck with me.
00:12:37
Speaker
It really like bored into me of like, I would be giving up myself if I stayed.
00:12:43
Speaker
It's so hard to accept and understand in that situation where you are in a marriage that you've been in a long time.
00:12:49
Speaker
And I would even say just marriage, like even like a job or something that you've really committed to and like accept and understand when you've reached a point of no return.
00:12:58
Speaker
And it's time to choose yourself because it's not always clear to be fair.
00:13:02
Speaker
Right.
00:13:02
Speaker
I think, like you said, infidelity can be the thing I think is a line that most people draw and people understand, okay, if this happens, then I am totally within my right.
00:13:12
Speaker
And it makes sense to end a marriage.
00:13:14
Speaker
It's actually even like in a lot of religious cultures, like the one exception to having to stay in a marriage for women, even it's like infidelity is
00:13:22
Speaker
Yeah, this is why I'm honestly, this is a bit of a tandem, why I'm baffed, why the church encourages people to stay together after infidelity when even Jesus said, like, nope the fuck out.
00:13:36
Speaker
I'm honestly baffled.
00:13:37
Speaker
Even Jesus said, wrap it up.
00:13:40
Speaker
He literally says.
00:13:41
Speaker
Even Jesus says, wrap it the fuck up.
00:13:43
Speaker
Like, it's over.
00:13:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:46
Speaker
That person cheats, just pack it up.
00:13:48
Speaker
But there's also a lot of... I mean, a person generally doesn't just start cheating out of nowhere.
00:13:53
Speaker
There's usually other tells that they are deprioritizing you in that relationship prior to them actually doing it.
00:14:00
Speaker
Well, that's the thing, right?
00:14:01
Speaker
So part of this journey for me has been, and it is painful to look back.
00:14:06
Speaker
So I was with this person for 11 years from the time I was just about to turn 19 until I was 30.
00:14:12
Speaker
And so we basically became adults together.
00:14:15
Speaker
We did all of the learning how to be an adult together.
00:14:19
Speaker
And so...
00:14:20
Speaker
you know, like all the big milestones that happen in your, you know, 20s and college and, you know, moving out and buying your first house and all of these things we kind of did together.
00:14:31
Speaker
And so I think, you know, I look back now, a lot of the work that I've been doing over the last few years is really looking back at that relationship and examining things that at the time, you know, they may be like,
00:14:42
Speaker
maybe there was like a little red flag or like I kind of noted it in my mind.
00:14:46
Speaker
And then you just kind of, right, you move on from it because it is that cascading effect where it's like, oh, it's not that big a deal.
00:14:53
Speaker
And, you know, I'm thinking about, I can't remember what episode it was.
00:14:56
Speaker
It was the last episode, I think, where you were talking about gaslighting and that people use the term gaslighting incorrectly.
00:15:03
Speaker
And, you know, I think this is actually a situation where there was absolutely gaslighting and, you know, where...
00:15:10
Speaker
humor was the thing that was used in my marriage.
00:15:13
Speaker
Humor was the thing that was used to sort of manipulate the situation or gaslight me.
00:15:18
Speaker
Like, oh, I was just joking.
00:15:20
Speaker
Or you're being too sensitive or, you know, like kind of dismissing my feelings about stuff through humor or making a joke at my expense around people to diminish me or make me small was like the common thing that happened in my relationship.
00:15:35
Speaker
And so, oh, it just, it digs into it because it's hard to pinpoint.
00:15:40
Speaker
you know, it's not anger, it's not like yelling, it's not physical abuse.
00:15:45
Speaker
It's this, oh, well, I was just joking, you know, and doing that publicly
Rebuilding Self-Trust and Dating Strategies
00:15:50
Speaker
around friends and family to sort of diminish your experience.
00:15:53
Speaker
And so I've spent the last few years really digging into these situations that I remember kind of having like a yuck feeling about in the moment, but then being diminished by, oh, I was just joking, you're overreacting, you're being too sensitive.
00:16:08
Speaker
And actually going, no, you weren't being too sensitive.
00:16:10
Speaker
You should have listened to your gut and you should have really paid attention to how these different comments and situations were making you feel.
00:16:18
Speaker
That's the work that I've been doing.
00:16:19
Speaker
And so finding like recalibrating myself, I guess, is a lot of what I've been doing to kind of get back to trusting my gut.
00:16:28
Speaker
Because over time, when someone chips away at you in that way, you question everything.
00:16:34
Speaker
You question your mindset.
00:16:36
Speaker
You question how sensitive you are.
00:16:38
Speaker
You question your understanding of situations.
00:16:41
Speaker
It is really hard to undo all of that damage.
00:16:45
Speaker
I mean, you were young too.
00:16:46
Speaker
I mean, that's the other thing.
00:16:47
Speaker
Like you started dating him when you were 19.
00:16:49
Speaker
And I think who we are at 19 is quite different than who we are by 30.
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:55
Speaker
I don't know.
00:16:55
Speaker
That's why I'm such a big fan of the rotational dating model, even when you're young, because I feel like when you're young, yeah, it's easy to always question yourself because you don't have any basis of alternative experience, right?
00:17:06
Speaker
So I find this to be true with jobs.
00:17:08
Speaker
I found this to be true with relationships that sometimes like the old advice that women are often given to like commit to something early and be like slow and steady can actually really limit you because you start to, you basically fold it into a system that already exists or a man that already exists.
00:17:23
Speaker
And then you
00:17:23
Speaker
you don't necessarily have a full sense of yourself or what is okay and what's not okay and what options you have.
00:17:29
Speaker
So a lot of that makes perfect sense for the fact that you guys started dating when you were teenagers.
00:17:35
Speaker
Pros and cons to long-term relationships.
00:17:37
Speaker
Because I think a lot of times the push for women is always to prioritize the long-term relationship.
00:17:42
Speaker
And there's some disadvantages in that you may not know when you're not being treated well because you don't have any basis of comparison.
00:17:49
Speaker
I think I want to touch on that piece too, because you know where this relationship started too.
00:17:56
Speaker
I was not too far out of a another relationship that was abusive in a more traditional sense, if you will, before that.
00:18:04
Speaker
So my high school sweetheart, it was an abusive relationship as well.
00:18:08
Speaker
And I didn't take the time to heal between.
00:18:10
Speaker
And it set me up for, oh, this person's treating me marginally better and accepting that, right?
00:18:15
Speaker
Because, well, they're not doing these things.
00:18:18
Speaker
They're treating me better.
00:18:19
Speaker
And I think so much about all of the, you know, through the podcast, as well as other articles about these things, it's like the mask slipping, right?
00:18:29
Speaker
So yeah, great.
00:18:30
Speaker
The first six months, great.
00:18:31
Speaker
He was all of these things.
00:18:33
Speaker
And it felt so much better in comparison to the previous relationship I had.
00:18:37
Speaker
And so you kind of, again, you're accepting, you know, you're accepting that.
00:18:42
Speaker
Yeah, you've touched on a really good point.
00:18:45
Speaker
And this is, you know, why I encourage my friends and even myself and organizations do this as well.
00:18:51
Speaker
When they're looking at recruitment or companies that are truly looking for the best candidates is what they will do is that they will assess the
00:19:00
Speaker
each candidate to an objective standard.
00:19:02
Speaker
So I remember when I was applying for government roles, they said, you know, at the assessment centre, you are being assessed as an individual.
00:19:08
Speaker
So it could be that all of you pass today or none of you pass today.
00:19:12
Speaker
It's not a case of, you know, well, this person is slightly better than that person, you know, so they pass.
00:19:17
Speaker
Because the issue with that is, is that you stop looking at
00:19:21
Speaker
each candidate holistically and instead you start looking at, okay, well, they're slightly better in this area.
00:19:27
Speaker
So therefore they move forward.
00:19:29
Speaker
And I've seen, you know, myself and other women, we make this mistake where, you know, let's say our previous partner was, you know, verbally and physically abusive.
00:19:38
Speaker
The next partner might not be verbally or physically abusive, but they might be lazy or they might be emotionally abusive.
00:19:43
Speaker
But we say, oh, well, because he's not hitting me, he treats me better when actually we're not assessing the new guy to an objective standard or to an independent standard.
00:19:53
Speaker
And especially if you've been in a bad relationship before, it's a really, really terrible idea to compare future men to your ex because you are already starting from a baseline that is in the Mariana Trench.
00:20:05
Speaker
Like...
00:20:06
Speaker
The baseline is already low.
00:20:08
Speaker
And I see women make this mistake.
00:20:09
Speaker
Oh, they're better than my ex.
00:20:10
Speaker
My ex was this and this new guy's like that.
00:20:12
Speaker
And the new guy turns out to be just a shit, just in a different way.
00:20:16
Speaker
So this is why I'm really glad you brought that up because it's about having an independent standing when it comes to men.
00:20:22
Speaker
Because if we accept that a lot of men are trash, you know, that's why it's important to have that independent standards.
00:20:29
Speaker
And there are many, many ways that men can be trash as well.
00:20:33
Speaker
Well, and I think about, you know, that boundary that I talked about with my marriage, it was infidelity.
00:20:38
Speaker
I mean, that is talk about end of the road boundary, right?
00:20:42
Speaker
That is like, again, it's the only exception in the church, right?
00:20:47
Speaker
In some cases.
00:20:48
Speaker
And so that boundary is, it's kind of the last thing.
00:20:51
Speaker
It's the end of the road.
00:20:52
Speaker
That's why it's so important for women to develop those boundaries at a young age.
00:20:57
Speaker
And I'm, you know, I'm apparently a late bloomer in developing some of these boundaries.
00:21:01
Speaker
And, you know, it's better late than never is kind of how I've looked at it is having it shouldn't have had to get to that point.
00:21:08
Speaker
It should not have gotten to that point where it took infidelity to walk away.
00:21:12
Speaker
There were a hundred things before that, that should have been, that was a boundary and that's been squashed.
00:21:18
Speaker
So I walk away and it should have been, I think back to before we were married.
00:21:22
Speaker
It's not like, you know, it's not like all of a sudden, as soon as we signed that paperwork, all these red flags popped up or all this mistreatment popped up.
00:21:30
Speaker
It existed before that.
00:21:32
Speaker
And so not having those boundaries in place and doing those comparisons to a previous, even shittier relationship essentially set me up to accept, you know, something marginally better because I didn't have those boundaries in place.
00:21:46
Speaker
And it was like, that was the last, the last thing standing was the infidelity.
00:21:50
Speaker
It's like, that's a pretty flimsy thing between, you know, leaving or staying forever and being miserable.
00:21:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:56
Speaker
And so, you know, when I talk to my friends and, you know, talking to people in the discord and things, it's like having those boundaries, those non-negotiables that if this happens, I walk away and meaning it is so important for women.
00:22:10
Speaker
Facts on facts.
00:22:11
Speaker
I mean...
00:22:13
Speaker
Okay, so meeting slightly on from your divorce, and thank you so much for sharing that.
00:22:18
Speaker
I feel like it's very, it's really, really brave of women, especially to be open about the fact that they have been through a divorce simply because patriarchy somehow demonizes divorced women and single moms a lot more than their male counterparts.
00:22:33
Speaker
So thank you for sharing that with us.
00:22:35
Speaker
I know you've touched on this already, but it'll be interesting to hear about, you know, your dating after a divorce.
00:22:42
Speaker
You've touched on how, you know, you set those boundaries, but how did you actually, you know, put them into practice?
00:22:48
Speaker
Because it's easy having boundaries and standards in theory, but when you're actually out there interacting with men, it can become a bit more difficult.
00:22:56
Speaker
And also just wanted to clarify as well, did you find FDS at this point around the time when you started going out dating again?
00:23:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:05
Speaker
So I think I want to say I discovered FDS like right around like COVID lockdown time.
00:23:11
Speaker
So like March of 2020, I think is when I discovered FDS.
00:23:16
Speaker
And what was interesting, right, is we're all locked down.
00:23:19
Speaker
And
Dating Post-Divorce and Setting Boundaries
00:23:20
Speaker
so going out on physical dates, wasn't where I was, the lockdown was very, very strict.
00:23:26
Speaker
I mean, everything was closed.
00:23:27
Speaker
So going on dates wasn't really physical dates.
00:23:30
Speaker
Going out in person was not really an option at this time.
00:23:34
Speaker
And so that was actually kind of an interesting social experiment to kind of... I did a lot of virtual dates and phone calls and that kind of thing during this time.
00:23:44
Speaker
which I think was actually a good thing for me as I'm coming out of this divorce and having some distance to basically, you know, it's easy to get caught up.
00:23:52
Speaker
And I think that especially when you're hurting and you're recovering from a really traumatic experience, like a breakup or, you know, or fill in the blank kind of traumatic experience that we get caught up, right?
00:24:05
Speaker
We want to feel good and meeting someone new that's exciting and makes us feel good and, you know, is probably love bombing us.
00:24:13
Speaker
It feels good, right?
00:24:14
Speaker
And so having this distance during this time was actually really helpful.
00:24:18
Speaker
And so I used this period of time to enact boundaries with people who didn't mean a lot to me.
00:24:26
Speaker
It feels gross saying that, but it was.
00:24:28
Speaker
It was like... No, it doesn't.
00:24:30
Speaker
Say it with your chest.
00:24:31
Speaker
I mean...
00:24:32
Speaker
And also, I completely agree.
00:24:34
Speaker
Like having boundaries, I remember reading from a therapist, I can't remember the book, but having boundaries, especially as women, it's like a muscle, the more you use it and flex it, the stronger it gets.
00:24:44
Speaker
So absolutely 100% agree, like use these men as training armbands when you like first learn how to swim, so to speak, 100% agree with it.
00:24:53
Speaker
We were talking about using jobs you don't want for interview practice.
00:24:57
Speaker
So like just apply to a bunch of jobs and then try to schedule all the jobs you don't actually want for interviews ahead of the time.
00:25:02
Speaker
Honest to God.
00:25:06
Speaker
Dating is not unlike that.
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:08
Speaker
Practice on them.
00:25:10
Speaker
Exactly.
00:25:12
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, I don't know how cognizant of that, that I was doing that at that time.
00:25:16
Speaker
But looking back, it was like, oh, here's an opportunity, right?
00:25:19
Speaker
With some distance, because we're not meeting each other in person necessarily.
00:25:23
Speaker
Although I did with a few, you know, that I'm thinking through my boundaries, and I'm practicing my boundaries, like, okay, I'm
00:25:30
Speaker
I match with someone on a dating app and they immediately launch into making some gross sexual comment, right?
00:25:36
Speaker
Like boundary done.
00:25:38
Speaker
Like we're not talking anymore.
00:25:39
Speaker
We're done.
00:25:40
Speaker
So like just kind of practicing, like you said, Savannah, you know, flexing that muscle of...
00:25:46
Speaker
it's okay to say, I don't like that.
00:25:48
Speaker
No, thank you.
00:25:49
Speaker
I'm moving next, basically.
00:25:51
Speaker
And so that's what I spent this time doing was doing that.
00:25:54
Speaker
And then there was one individual who I got more involved with.
00:25:59
Speaker
And it was, again, a bad situation.
00:26:02
Speaker
And your girl almost made the same mistake again of comparing to the last relationship and accepting marginally better treatment in certain arenas.
00:26:11
Speaker
And then I remember I found this...
00:26:14
Speaker
It was like an infographic and I think it was on FDS.
00:26:17
Speaker
It was like an infographic and it was about gaslighting and it was the different markers of gaslighting and the different ways that people do that.
00:26:25
Speaker
And it's like a light bulb went off in my head and I just I ended that relationship immediately after seeing that.
00:26:31
Speaker
It was like having this like objective description of what I was experiencing.
00:26:37
Speaker
I just ended it right there.
00:26:38
Speaker
And I just, I went back to the drawing board and kind of went, okay, you almost just fell into the same exact pattern because, you know, at that point, almost 30 years, well, let's say 15 years of kind of updating and accepting crumbs from people to unlearn.
00:26:55
Speaker
And you're not going to do that in six months.
00:26:57
Speaker
So there was definitely trial and error during that point.
00:27:01
Speaker
And I learned a lot of like, one, my boundaries and how like, I'm not being a jerk or being an asshole by saying, I don't accept that treatment.
00:27:10
Speaker
Like there's nothing wrong with that.
00:27:11
Speaker
And it's nothing personal to the other person.
00:27:14
Speaker
It's just you're not meeting the standard or the expectations that I have and go find someone else who you do.
00:27:19
Speaker
And that's okay.
00:27:20
Speaker
So there was a lot of sort of, again, like this self reconciliation that, you know, I think I talked a little bit earlier about like women are conditioned to accept
Child-Free Lifestyle Choices
00:27:30
Speaker
nothing and give everything.
00:27:31
Speaker
And so having to change your mindset on that, it's a hard journey because it feels like you're being, you know, an ice queen or you're being callous.
00:27:40
Speaker
We have all these words in our society to describe women who have boundaries or stand up for themselves.
00:27:45
Speaker
And so you're fighting against sort of that rhetoric that you're going
00:27:48
Speaker
cruel, or you're going to be a spinster.
00:27:50
Speaker
Or, you know, for me, it was you've hit the wall because you're 30.
00:27:53
Speaker
And so, you know, I'm fighting against these things in this process, while also dealing with a lot of trauma, rebuilding my life.
00:28:01
Speaker
And so I really I use it as a time to do exactly that to strip it all down and go, what do you want?
00:28:07
Speaker
And what do you expect of the people around you?
00:28:08
Speaker
And that met friends, family, and a romantic relationship.
00:28:13
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely think COVID was almost like the great reset for a lot of women in terms of relationships and what they expected.
00:28:20
Speaker
I remember the subreddit just had this exponential boom in traffic and membership during that COVID period, because I think a lot of women, almost like you described, they were forced to take stock of their relationships and what they wanted from it.
00:28:36
Speaker
And I guess being isolated for the most part made that a lot easier, I think, as well.
00:28:43
Speaker
or being stuck in their house with their partner 24 seven and going, what am I doing?
00:28:48
Speaker
Yeah, that's true.
00:28:50
Speaker
So moving on slightly as well, during our initial discovery call, you mentioned that you were child free, a lifestyle that I'm very much in favor of personally.
00:29:00
Speaker
Anyway.
00:29:01
Speaker
So in terms of being child free, how did you navigate that whilst dating as well?
00:29:05
Speaker
Cause I know from experience I've had mixed experiences and
00:29:10
Speaker
with men when I mentioned that I have no interest in having their cells populate my womb.
00:29:17
Speaker
So it'll be interesting just to hear your thoughts on the child food lifestyle and how you managed to navigate dating because you're also in a committed relationship as well.
00:29:28
Speaker
So it'll be good to hear your perspective on that.
00:29:30
Speaker
I mean, when I was married, I kind of, I think again, you know, I'm in this relationship.
00:29:36
Speaker
I got into this relationship at a very young age where I wasn't sure what I wanted out of my life.
00:29:41
Speaker
And so as we were growing up together, if you will, and figuring out adulthood and, you know, and then we got married, I think we were 24, 25 when we got married and
00:29:50
Speaker
He really wanted children.
00:29:52
Speaker
That was very important to him.
00:29:53
Speaker
And I think that I sort of accepted that.
00:29:56
Speaker
I kind of said, well, okay, I'd be fine with one child.
00:30:01
Speaker
And then as we sort of got... I had all these benchmarks, right?
00:30:06
Speaker
Once we buy a house, then I'll be ready.
00:30:08
Speaker
And then once I get this kind of job, or once I make this amount of money, I'll be ready for that.
00:30:13
Speaker
And so it was like, I had all these things that I felt like I wanted to do or needed to do.
00:30:17
Speaker
And then I would be ready.
00:30:18
Speaker
And I never really got to that place where I was like, Oh, yeah, not I want a child really bad.
00:30:24
Speaker
And, and I'm ready, because I have all the things in place to do it.
00:30:26
Speaker
I never got there.
00:30:28
Speaker
And so, you know, after my divorce, that was one of the things I spent a lot of time thinking about.
00:30:32
Speaker
It's like, did I actually want children and it was the wrong person, which is, I think something, you know,
00:30:38
Speaker
that women face where they're like, I do want a child.
00:30:40
Speaker
And then they realize like, oh, it's just not with this person.
00:30:45
Speaker
And then, you know, on the other hand, it's I don't want children.
00:30:48
Speaker
And that was also the wrong person.
00:30:50
Speaker
So I feel very thankful that I did not have children with my ex husband, I was able to have a really clean break.
00:30:56
Speaker
And so I'm very thankful for that.
00:30:58
Speaker
Because you know, I have friends who have children with their ex, and they have to see them, you know, multiple times a week, and I got to just step up
00:31:05
Speaker
Oh, but I can't go on there.
00:31:06
Speaker
I cannot go on that subreddit.
00:31:08
Speaker
It really is.
00:31:09
Speaker
And I did.
00:31:09
Speaker
I honestly, I spent some time on that subreddit reading through people's stories.
00:31:13
Speaker
And I think, you know, just really kind of thinking through that.
00:31:17
Speaker
Breaking mom, free contraception.
00:31:22
Speaker
How did you come to that conclusion?
00:31:23
Speaker
Like what put you over the hump as far as like definitively deciding that you don't want children?
00:31:30
Speaker
I really just thought about my life and like, what do I enjoy most about my current life?
00:31:34
Speaker
And what do I want in five years?
00:31:36
Speaker
And, you know, I'm a really career driven person.
00:31:39
Speaker
And that's not to say you can't be a mother and be those things, you know, be career driven and do all these other things too.
00:31:45
Speaker
I live alone.
00:31:46
Speaker
I like my peace a lot.
00:31:48
Speaker
I like to be able to come and go as I please.
00:31:51
Speaker
And so, you know, I just thought about the lifestyle that I want.
00:31:54
Speaker
again, like I know I've mentioned it multiple times now is conditioning, right?
00:31:58
Speaker
Like I thought about how many people in general, but I think particularly women do things because, well, that's the next thing you're supposed to do, right?
00:32:07
Speaker
Well, okay, well, we dated.
00:32:08
Speaker
So now we need to get married because that's the next thing you do.
00:32:11
Speaker
And then, uh, well, we're married.
00:32:13
Speaker
And so the next thing we should do is have children and,
00:32:15
Speaker
And the greatest thing you can be is a wife and a mother.
00:32:18
Speaker
So I thought a lot about the conditioning that I had and have had, and that's all around us.
00:32:24
Speaker
And I really thought about what is it that I want?
00:32:27
Speaker
And a lot of my female friends are child-free by choice as well.
00:32:31
Speaker
And so I spent a lot of time talking with them.
00:32:34
Speaker
One of my dearest friends is six or seven years older than me.
00:32:38
Speaker
And so she's been sure of this for a long time.
00:32:41
Speaker
And so I
00:32:42
Speaker
I just spent time talking with the women that I trust and care about.
00:32:45
Speaker
And, you know, and I just, I just didn't see a lifestyle that would make me happy that would be conducive to having children.
00:32:54
Speaker
Yeah, I completely relate to that.
00:32:56
Speaker
I just spent a lot of time thinking about that as an individual, right?
00:33:00
Speaker
Not as in a relationship.
00:33:02
Speaker
It's like I needed to understand what I need as an individual.
00:33:05
Speaker
And then at a point, right?
00:33:07
Speaker
Find a partner who fits into that as well, who has those same ideologies that I do and has the same vision for their life.
00:33:14
Speaker
And, you know, Ro, like you said earlier, getting into that relationship that ended in a marriage and ultimately a divorce at such a young age, you don't know who you are.
00:33:22
Speaker
And you have so much growing to do and understanding what you want and those boundaries that you have.
00:33:27
Speaker
I'm at a point now, I'm in my mid-30s now, and I've had time as an individual and I know what I want now.
00:33:36
Speaker
And so looking for a partner that meets those things and the lifestyle that I want and the things that I believe in that are important to me is easier now because I'm sure of those things.
00:33:47
Speaker
That's so interesting.
00:33:48
Speaker
So do you think there's a difference in the way you have to date if you don't want to have children versus if you are a person that wants to have children?
00:33:54
Speaker
Like, how is it interacting with men?
00:33:56
Speaker
Yes.
00:33:56
Speaker
100 percent.
00:33:59
Speaker
100 percent, I would say.
00:34:00
Speaker
I mean, sorry to jump in there, June, but yeah, 100 percent.
00:34:04
Speaker
It has to be.
00:34:05
Speaker
And it's almost like, I'm not sure if we found this as well, June, but I found that
Career Series: Leadership and Work Culture
00:34:10
Speaker
even when I wasn't interested in a man, let's say he was an acquaintance or the partner of like one of my girlfriends, if I said, I'm not having kids, I'm child free, they would start trying to talk me into it.
00:34:20
Speaker
And I'm like, mate, I'm not even going to have kids with you.
00:34:23
Speaker
Why do you care?
00:34:24
Speaker
And they'd be like, oh, you know, you've got good genes, you know, you should have kids.
00:34:27
Speaker
I'm like, fuck.
00:34:28
Speaker
fuck off.
00:34:29
Speaker
Like, honestly, men, when it comes to women having bodily autonomy, even if, you know, they may not be interested in having kids with you, they get very, very funny about it.
00:34:38
Speaker
And I think it's that conditioning that even, you know, men get that every woman aspires to be a mother at some point.
00:34:45
Speaker
And I've just never felt that.
00:34:47
Speaker
Agreed.
00:34:48
Speaker
I think what was so interesting is that, you know, even in dating men that claim to be child free, or they maybe didn't claim to be child free, but they were leaning towards not having children.
00:35:00
Speaker
It's like you talk to them, and then they kind of, they're changing, right?
00:35:04
Speaker
They're changing their viewpoint.
00:35:05
Speaker
Well, I mean, I wouldn't mind having one.
00:35:07
Speaker
What do you think about having one?
00:35:09
Speaker
And I would say in sort of those early days of being on dating apps and stuff, I was still working through some of that.
00:35:15
Speaker
And so, you know, maybe I was not as like clear on that as I am now, but it was so interesting.
00:35:22
Speaker
Savannah is totally right.
00:35:24
Speaker
And in my personal life too, like who's going to take care of you when you're old is something that I hear a lot as a child-free person.
00:35:31
Speaker
And it's like,
00:35:31
Speaker
Having children to take care of you when you're old is a really messed up reason to have kids in the first place.
00:35:39
Speaker
I hate that.
00:35:40
Speaker
Children are not a retirement plan.
00:35:42
Speaker
Like there's so many things that could just blow that plan.
00:35:46
Speaker
And not to mention it's it's just so, so selfish.
00:35:49
Speaker
Like you don't have kids to start breeding your future carers.
00:35:54
Speaker
That's not a reason to have a child.
00:35:56
Speaker
Yeah, that particular question or, you know, sort of rhetoric, like just has disgusted me through this journey, because it's a question I hear regularly, you're going to be alone when you die.
00:36:09
Speaker
Well, everybody is so and also like, you know,
00:36:13
Speaker
Like you said, there's a million reasons why your kids wouldn't be there at the end.
00:36:17
Speaker
There's a million reasons for that.
00:36:19
Speaker
So I never understood kind of that thought process.
00:36:22
Speaker
But in dating, it was so interesting because I would get sort of that response from men too, who even said they weren't interested in having kids.
00:36:31
Speaker
Well, like, what's your purpose then kind of that thought and I'm like, what do you mean?
00:36:35
Speaker
What's my purpose?
00:36:36
Speaker
You know, I have friends and family and hobbies and a job that I love and all these other things.
00:36:43
Speaker
Having a child's not the only reason, the only purpose for women like it just it really highlighted sort of the deep seated misogyny that is in our culture and particularly around
00:36:55
Speaker
women's usefulness, that was really eye opening for me.
00:36:59
Speaker
And so I doubled down last summer.
00:37:02
Speaker
And I actually had my tubes removed last summer.
00:37:05
Speaker
And the amount of like, how much less stress I feel now, like just that that is a decision I've made.
00:37:14
Speaker
It's a for sure thing.
00:37:15
Speaker
And it's a permanent thing was like, I was able to take just like a sigh of relief, if you will, to be able to make that decision.
00:37:23
Speaker
And
00:37:23
Speaker
And I was also like so shocked with my doctor was so great.
00:37:27
Speaker
I was expecting to have a fight, right?
00:37:29
Speaker
Like there's so many horror stories of women who are sure and you got to fight for it.
00:37:33
Speaker
Like I've known since I was 10 years old that I didn't want to have kids and I'm 30 now.
00:37:37
Speaker
And well, what if you meet the right man?
00:37:40
Speaker
then he's not the right man if he wants kids.
00:37:42
Speaker
Like, that's just like saying, I don't know, like, if you met the right guy, but he wants to live in Australia, like, well, he's not the right one, because I don't want to live in Australia.
00:37:50
Speaker
It's about compatibility.
00:37:52
Speaker
And I don't know if you got it as well, because you said you knew from, like, when you were 10.
00:37:56
Speaker
But I always grew up without a maternal instinct in my body.
00:38:00
Speaker
Like, babies, I find them cute, but I've never thought I want one of my own.
00:38:04
Speaker
Like,
00:38:04
Speaker
ever and I often got oh you'll change your mind when you're older but it's like as I've gotten older and become more into myself become more successful in my career it's only made me want kids less I think if it was 10 years ago I might be like maybe one day but the older I get and the more successful I become as an individual the less I want kids
00:38:27
Speaker
I agree 100%.
00:38:30
Speaker
You know, I kept waiting for that clock, that internal clock to start ticking.
00:38:34
Speaker
And I'm like, where is she?
00:38:35
Speaker
Why is she not ticking, you know?
00:38:37
Speaker
And it just that never came for me.
00:38:39
Speaker
And so I thought there was something wrong with me.
00:38:42
Speaker
I don't know if you kind of went through this to Savannah that like,
00:38:45
Speaker
I kind of thought, oh, maybe there's something wrong with me.
00:38:47
Speaker
Why don't I have that maternal instinct?
00:38:49
Speaker
Why don't I have this longing to have children?
00:38:52
Speaker
And then I just realized, there's nothing wrong with you.
00:38:55
Speaker
You can take a different path.
00:38:57
Speaker
And it's maybe one that's kind of less traveled, but that's okay.
00:39:00
Speaker
And I think that...
00:39:02
Speaker
you know, having a child's kind of the one thing you can't undo, right?
00:39:05
Speaker
You take a job you don't like, you can get a different job.
00:39:08
Speaker
You buy a house you don't like, you can sell it and buy a different house, you know, but having a child is a forever commitment.
00:39:14
Speaker
It is a lifetime commitment.
00:39:15
Speaker
And if it's not a hell yeah,
00:39:17
Speaker
it should be a no.
00:39:18
Speaker
And that's kind of how I sort of ended up even starting to explore that is like, it wasn't something that ever felt exciting to me or something.
00:39:27
Speaker
It felt like a compromise in my marriage and a child should not be a compromise.
00:39:31
Speaker
And so that for me was really kind of the thing that went, maybe that isn't for you.
00:39:36
Speaker
Amen sis I mean so obviously you are in a relationship now how did you vet your partner to ensure that he's actually child free like I know that the future is uncertain people can change their mind but you've been together for quite some time how did you have that conversation how were you you know sure that he was actually child free as well
00:39:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:58
Speaker
So I mean, I just laid it out.
00:39:59
Speaker
I'm kind of a blunt person, pretty direct about stuff.
00:40:02
Speaker
And so I just I laid that out.
00:40:05
Speaker
And we still like I that's something we talk about regularly to like sort of checking in with each other.
00:40:10
Speaker
And I would say he's probably even more like aggressively child free than I am.
00:40:15
Speaker
Like he's known since a very young age, and he's not wavered in that at all.
00:40:20
Speaker
And so he has nieces and nephews and he's kind of like what you said, like, oh, they're cute, but no, thank you.
00:40:27
Speaker
That's just not who he is.
00:40:29
Speaker
And he's very much, we're both very introverted.
00:40:32
Speaker
We both very much like our space and our peace and our alone time.
00:40:37
Speaker
And so again, it's just not conducive to either of our lifestyles, I guess.
00:40:42
Speaker
And so it was pretty clear from the jump.
00:40:47
Speaker
And it's been consistent through our entire relationship that that's not something that either of us are interested in even slightly.
00:40:54
Speaker
And so, you know, he was completely supportive of my decision to get my, you know, get my tubal removal surgery.
00:41:01
Speaker
You know, he took care of me through all of that and was,
00:41:05
Speaker
100% supportive of that.
00:41:06
Speaker
And it wasn't even like, oh, great, you're doing that for us.
00:41:08
Speaker
It was like, that's what you want.
00:41:10
Speaker
I absolutely support you in doing that as an individual, right?
00:41:14
Speaker
That is your decision.
00:41:15
Speaker
And it is beneficial to you because that is a choice that you are making about the lifestyle that you want.
00:41:22
Speaker
So even taking it a step further than just like, hey, this is good for both of us.
00:41:25
Speaker
And you're taking on the burden of doing that.
00:41:27
Speaker
So I don't have to.
00:41:28
Speaker
It was regardless of whether I'm in the picture or not, this is the lifestyle that you want.
00:41:33
Speaker
What can I do to help you?
00:41:35
Speaker
Nice.
00:41:36
Speaker
And again, I guess, because I see this on some of the child free subreddits
Exes and Emotional Closure
00:41:40
Speaker
as well, where they have a partner who then just has a 180 and all of a sudden wants kids, which isn't a bad thing.
00:41:47
Speaker
But I think especially if you are committed to the child free lifestyle, again, it goes back to maintaining that boundary and not giving in.
00:41:55
Speaker
I know.
00:41:55
Speaker
Yeah, men are like, my legacy, all of a sudden at 35.
00:42:00
Speaker
Oh, my legacy.
00:42:02
Speaker
If you've got $1 million in assets or pounds in assets.
00:42:05
Speaker
My legacy.
00:42:06
Speaker
Then we can start talking about your legacy and your titles passing down.
00:42:10
Speaker
Yeah, right.
00:42:13
Speaker
I'm like, I feel like nobody wants your collection of Hot Wheels and Star Wars action figures.
00:42:19
Speaker
And your student loan debt.
00:42:20
Speaker
And your Cheeto dust.
00:42:22
Speaker
Your Cheeto dust.
00:42:25
Speaker
None of this is worth anything.
00:42:28
Speaker
I mean, so pivoting slightly actually from the child-free stuff.
00:42:32
Speaker
So, you know, obviously Ro and I are running a career series in tandem on the bonus content where it's mainly Ro ranting about corporate.
00:42:40
Speaker
But there's some gems in there as well.
00:42:42
Speaker
I did realise a can of worms are open when I suggested the career series because Ro was like, well, okay.
00:42:47
Speaker
And then every week she just gets angrier and angrier.
00:42:52
Speaker
I can't stop ranting.
00:42:54
Speaker
There's just so much to be mad about.
00:42:56
Speaker
It's kind of bad.
00:42:59
Speaker
Sorry, y'all.
00:42:59
Speaker
But I mean, I'm in America, so we have no workers rights.
00:43:03
Speaker
So I feel like comparatively and just the amount of hyper competitiveness and the lack of any type of worker protections of any kind.
00:43:13
Speaker
That's what America is like right now.
00:43:15
Speaker
So I don't think I'm not the only person who's like that.
00:43:17
Speaker
She's off again.
00:43:18
Speaker
She's off again.
00:43:19
Speaker
She is off again.
00:43:22
Speaker
Accepting crumbs in our relationships and in our jobs.
00:43:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's really bare minimum crumbs out here.
00:43:29
Speaker
It really is.
00:43:30
Speaker
And now Ro is going on mute.
00:43:32
Speaker
And it's the mind games on top of it.
00:43:35
Speaker
Okay, so listen to the career series on Patreon.
00:43:38
Speaker
Check out our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash female dating strategy if you want to hear me rant about corporate America.
00:43:44
Speaker
So obviously you are also quite senior in your career as well.
00:43:47
Speaker
And it'll be interesting to get a bit of an idea about your career path and how you've navigated ascending the corporate ranks, so to speak, in the corporate hellscape that is the US of A.
00:44:00
Speaker
this is probably my favorite topic to talk about when we talk about feminism and radical feminism is like how to utilize kind of your femininity in your professional life.
00:44:10
Speaker
So I'm in a leadership role.
00:44:12
Speaker
I work in government.
00:44:14
Speaker
And so slightly less of a hellscape than corporate America, I will say, you know, but much better benefits and things in government.
00:44:23
Speaker
But when I'm thinking sort of like parallel of
00:44:25
Speaker
my relationship and my career, you know, where I was really sort of silenced and made to feel small in my relationship, I think, back to that point in my career, and that was showing up professionally for me to where I was sort of, I was in spaces professionally where I was told I was too much, I was too loud, I was too passionate, I was too assertive, I was to fill in the blank things.
00:44:54
Speaker
Preach.
00:44:56
Speaker
It was such a hard point in my career because I am this passionate,
Reflection and Gratitude
00:45:01
Speaker
strong-willed, assertive woman.
00:45:03
Speaker
And it's the things that make me who I am and that I love most about myself.
00:45:07
Speaker
And I'm being told those things are wrong, both at home.
00:45:11
Speaker
They don't want women like that in corporate America.
00:45:14
Speaker
Because women like that peep the manipulation, the mind games, etc.
00:45:18
Speaker
Yep.
00:45:18
Speaker
So I was getting that at home.
00:45:20
Speaker
And I'm getting that at work, too.
00:45:22
Speaker
So you know, I remember kind of like, going like, who am I, you know, having sort of an existential crisis at this point of like, who am I, because I had been like, when I think of like, all through school and into college and stuff, I was just like this force kind of
00:45:37
Speaker
you know, in my academic career, and then I'm stepping into this professional world, and I'm coming in at, you know, entry level.
00:45:43
Speaker
So, you know, seen and not be heard.
00:45:46
Speaker
And then, you know, I'm trying to sort of climb up the rungs professionally, and I'm still being told, like, know your place, basically.
00:45:54
Speaker
And so and it was from other women.
00:45:56
Speaker
And that was the hardest thing was it was from other women that were much older than me that were sort of like squashing me,
00:46:03
Speaker
And, you know, like, I remember I had this boss that was just, she was much older than me.
00:46:09
Speaker
She was probably in her late 60s, early 70s.
00:46:11
Speaker
And I'm like 25 at this point.
00:46:13
Speaker
And I came in and I'm like, I have all these things that I can offer.
00:46:16
Speaker
I can, you know, make things more efficient.
00:46:18
Speaker
I can build new systems.
00:46:19
Speaker
And I, you know, and I saw all these things that...
00:46:22
Speaker
we could make better.
00:46:23
Speaker
And I had all these ideas and I was, you know, I was hungry.
00:46:25
Speaker
And the biggest squasher of sort of my drive was other women.
00:46:31
Speaker
And I think that was really hard for me to, it's like, we're supposed to be on the same team here.
00:46:35
Speaker
We're supposed to be supporting each other.
00:46:37
Speaker
That's unfortunately been my experience as well.
00:46:40
Speaker
It's been my experience as well.
00:46:42
Speaker
Like all the aggro in my career has been caused by other women.
00:46:48
Speaker
Well, I think to be blunt, and I don't know, it's not to create like a necessary division with women, but like, there's two things in my opinion that might be going on.
00:46:57
Speaker
And one of it is that the women that ascend through the ranks in any type of way tend to be the type of women who are willing to be that kind of person to squash, exploit, and bully other women.
00:47:08
Speaker
Because remember, they're operating within the bounds of that patriarchy.
00:47:11
Speaker
That is generally headed by men.
00:47:12
Speaker
And then on the other hand, I think what happens is some of them just Peter principle out and they're very threatened with their own job security by newer workers.
00:47:20
Speaker
So then like their incentive is then just to like subtly sabotage anybody who thinks they might have promise.
00:47:26
Speaker
And I think both are at play here.
00:47:28
Speaker
Like I've seen both sort of coexist in the same person, right?
00:47:32
Speaker
Well, like I paid my dues, I paid my dues.
00:47:34
Speaker
And so you need to too, and I'm going to make it as hard for you as it was for me.
00:47:39
Speaker
And so, you know, I think that's more devastating than facing, like I faced that from men in my, you know, throughout my career too, but it was women, certain women that did it much more.
00:47:49
Speaker
And that's devastating for me as a young professional.
00:47:52
Speaker
And just starting out my career was like,
00:47:54
Speaker
I saw women in leadership and I was like, oh my gosh, I want to aspire to be them.
00:47:58
Speaker
And I want to hook myself to them to learn from them so that I can be in their position one day.
00:48:05
Speaker
And not their exact position.
00:48:08
Speaker
I'm not gunning for your job, but so I can ascend to that level eventually.
00:48:13
Speaker
And again, it was met as a threat.
00:48:15
Speaker
And it was like, I want to learn from you.
00:48:18
Speaker
Mentor me.
00:48:19
Speaker
Teach me what you know.
00:48:22
Speaker
I've been in a leadership position a little over a year now and in senior positions for a couple of years now.
00:48:29
Speaker
And it's so interesting.
00:48:30
Speaker
You know, I really my sort of leadership philosophy or perspective is I really think about my
00:48:37
Speaker
my experiences through my career and how different things that people that I respected or that I reported to or managed me, the things that they said or did and how that made me feel.
00:48:48
Speaker
And I really, I really try to be cognizant of that when I'm working with my staff or, you know, I'm
00:48:55
Speaker
I lead from a place of, I'm kind of an emotional leader, I would say.
00:48:58
Speaker
And I think that's where I've leaned into my femininity is not trying to be the sort of quote unquote, man in leadership, having to act like a man to be successful in leadership.
00:49:10
Speaker
I really reject that.
00:49:12
Speaker
And I lead from a strong place of empathy with my staff.
00:49:16
Speaker
I lead from vulnerability.
00:49:18
Speaker
I'm really open and honest with my staff.
00:49:20
Speaker
And sometimes maybe to a fault,
00:49:23
Speaker
But I do show vulnerability to my staff like, hey, I'm having a hard day and this is why and this is the support that I need from you guys.
00:49:29
Speaker
And so trying to create a more collaborative environment where all voices are valuable to the work and recognizing... I think, Ro, this will probably resonate with you.
00:49:40
Speaker
Burnout is so significant in US work culture.
00:49:43
Speaker
Burnout is no joke here.
00:49:46
Speaker
people are exhausted and the last three years, like sort of through and now quote unquote, post COVID has been like exhausting for people.
00:49:55
Speaker
And like, I see that in my colleagues and I see that in my staff and we talk about that and we,
00:50:01
Speaker
address that.
00:50:02
Speaker
And we try to remedy that how we can like, all right, you're seeming burnout, what can we take off your plate this week to give you some breathing room?
00:50:09
Speaker
Like, I'm checking in with my staff.
00:50:11
Speaker
Hey, you haven't taken a day off in a while.
00:50:13
Speaker
Like, you know, you need to put a vacation day and like, let's make it happen.
00:50:16
Speaker
Hey, why don't you
00:50:16
Speaker
you flex some time today.
00:50:17
Speaker
And so, you know, really just it's empathy all the time.
00:50:20
Speaker
Like I really talked to my staff a lot about like, we've got lives outside of work and that is more important than work.
00:50:27
Speaker
And so like, if things are going on at home, that's making it hard for you to show up today.
00:50:31
Speaker
Like, let's just let me know.
00:50:32
Speaker
And we'll figure out a way to give you the space to deal with that because people will work harder for you and they'll do better work when they're not burned out and they're not torn in a million different ways, worrying about at home things.
00:50:43
Speaker
And so, you know, I really, I
00:50:45
Speaker
I just try to lead in a different way than I've been led.
00:50:48
Speaker
And I think it's been successful.
00:50:51
Speaker
And it's also, I will say, for some of the older male employees that I've managed has looked like weakness to them.
00:50:58
Speaker
And there's been situations where that has been... They've attempted to exploit that.
00:51:03
Speaker
Like, oh, because you're empathetic and caring, that must mean that you're weak and that I can walk all over you.
00:51:08
Speaker
And, you know, they're sorely mistaken by that thought because as soon as they sort of step out of line, I'll be as empathetic and kind to you as you choose me, as you choose.
00:51:17
Speaker
When you step out of line, you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing.
00:51:19
Speaker
You're going to get a different kind of manager.
00:51:21
Speaker
So that's kind of... Tell them.
00:51:23
Speaker
It is.
00:51:24
Speaker
It's kind of like a, you know, it's...
00:51:26
Speaker
It's a reward based system, right?
00:51:28
Speaker
Like I will be as caring and flexible and empathetic as you deserve.
00:51:32
Speaker
And so in its work, well, I'd say 90% of the time it works well.
00:51:35
Speaker
There's 10% of the time where, you know, I've had to have a conversation and say like, Hey, you know, don't get it twisted that I'm weak or that you can walk all over me.
00:51:45
Speaker
That's empathy and caring is not seen as weakness and it shouldn't be.
00:51:50
Speaker
It's strength to me.
00:51:51
Speaker
So that's kind of been my, I mean, my kind of professional journey is leaning into those characteristics that may be historically in the workplace and particularly in leadership have been seen as weak because, well, that's just being an emotional woman, right?
00:52:05
Speaker
Caring about your staff or...
00:52:07
Speaker
talking about, you know, the tough things or showing people grace when they're having a hard day or, you know, showing emotion.
00:52:13
Speaker
Like I've certainly cried in front of my staff.
00:52:15
Speaker
We do really emotional, like taxing work and it's hard work and there's nothing wrong with showing the human side of work.
00:52:23
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:52:24
Speaker
I mean, this is all really, really great perspective.
00:52:27
Speaker
I mean, it's so interesting to hear.
00:52:30
Speaker
And I'm looking for it as we interview more women on this podcast, like sometimes how your like personal and professional journeys can line up and then how women are navigating workplace politics, like with a situation, especially in America where like work has become so maybe it's always been this way, but it's so exploitative and it doesn't even like hide the naked exploitation aspect of it.
00:52:48
Speaker
Like, how do you as a female leader navigate that?
00:52:51
Speaker
And I think you really articulated your philosophy and your style really well.
00:52:56
Speaker
So good insight for aspiring female leaders.
00:52:59
Speaker
I think I've, you know, I've attracted some really great talent too by like, I talk about that in the interview process.
00:53:07
Speaker
You know, I talk about, hey, you know, you've got to make sure this is the right choice for you too.
00:53:12
Speaker
I mean, I talk a lot about that with candidates.
00:53:15
Speaker
Like, this is my leadership style.
00:53:17
Speaker
And
00:53:17
Speaker
You know, I'm working with our HR team to try to create a system to be able to allow candidates to do reference checks on me too.
00:53:27
Speaker
So for them to be able to talk to my staff, to ask them questions about what it's like working for me, because I want to be completely transparent to make sure that it's the right fit for them.
00:53:37
Speaker
Because maybe they don't want to deal with... Maybe they're like, I don't want the touchy-feely vulnerability stuff.
00:53:43
Speaker
That's not the right thing for them.
00:53:45
Speaker
Then they need to make that choice for themselves.
00:53:47
Speaker
But so trying to find as much transparency in the process as possible, because that's what's going to make a strong team.
00:53:54
Speaker
That's what's going to put out a better work product.
00:53:56
Speaker
That's what's going to make people stay.
00:53:58
Speaker
People leave jobs because of bad management and or...
00:54:02
Speaker
bad colleagues that management is not taking care of, right?
00:54:06
Speaker
Removing people that are a drain on the team.
00:54:08
Speaker
They're not correcting bad behavior.
00:54:10
Speaker
That's why people leave.
00:54:11
Speaker
People don't leave because the work's hard.
00:54:14
Speaker
They leave because the people around them, they don't want to deal with it.
00:54:17
Speaker
That's why I've left every job is I didn't have a good manager.
00:54:21
Speaker
I didn't have good support from management.
00:54:23
Speaker
I didn't have good colleagues.
00:54:25
Speaker
So yeah, I try to be as transparent as possible about those things.
00:54:29
Speaker
I mean, and to reiterate that, that's also been my experience as well is that when you're, again, young in my career, I was a first gen, like white collar worker.
00:54:37
Speaker
So I did not know whatsoever, like what to expect.
00:54:40
Speaker
And so I didn't know how to vet companies for the type of fit that would be beneficial for myself.
00:54:45
Speaker
And so then you end up in these toxic situations.
00:54:47
Speaker
Sometimes the more enthusiastic they are about you and you think upfront like, oh, okay, they seem really excited to bring me on.
00:54:53
Speaker
And it's all because you're going to be the scapegoat or you're going to be the person that they expect to magically fix all these toxic problems internally that management doesn't want to deal with.
00:55:02
Speaker
So I had to learn that I'm interviewing a company just as much as they're interviewing me.
00:55:06
Speaker
And it's about a place where I'll be happy and not just a place where they can exploit or blame me for things that are...
00:55:13
Speaker
really above my pay grade that people don't want to deal with, right?
00:55:17
Speaker
So there's just like, there's a dual process of learning oneself enough to know what type of work environment that you thrive in and also acquiring the skills that would make you attractive to that environment.
00:55:27
Speaker
I mean, my philosophy now has been, we've got a finite amount of time on this earth.
00:55:32
Speaker
And, you know, work is a huge portion of your week.
00:55:35
Speaker
I mean, say 40 hours, if you're lucky, right?
00:55:37
Speaker
Many people are working 50 plus hours a week.
00:55:40
Speaker
That's a big chunk of time each week.
00:55:42
Speaker
And I know it's a luxury to get to enjoy the work that I do.
00:55:45
Speaker
And that's not a luxury that everybody has.
00:55:47
Speaker
And so making sure that those hours are as enjoyable as you can is so important.
00:55:54
Speaker
And I think there's really been, you know, the last few years, it's really people have gone back to the drawing board on what they want out of a job.
00:56:03
Speaker
and what they expect and what kind of treatment they expect and what work-life balance means.
00:56:09
Speaker
My whole team and I are all remote 100% of the time.
00:56:12
Speaker
And that alone is attractive for people as a lot of companies are starting to force workers to go back in person for frankly, no reason.
00:56:23
Speaker
That's allowed me to attract better candidates and better talent to my team, which is going to make ultimately the work we do so much better.
00:56:30
Speaker
And it gives me the flexibility with my team to say like, hey, it's cool if you take a long lunch break and go take your dog for a walk, if that's what you need to like be successful the rest of the day.
00:56:40
Speaker
So I just think we're in a place in, I think there's kind of a revolution in
00:56:45
Speaker
coming as far as, you know, working workers' rights and expectations of jobs in the U.S. at least.
00:56:52
Speaker
And I'm sure that this will resonate with people in other places as well.
00:56:55
Speaker
But that's what I've seen a lot.
00:56:56
Speaker
And so I'm trying to lean into that as a leader that I can...
00:57:00
Speaker
affect that change.
00:57:01
Speaker
And I can solidify that change, if you will, that like, I can say no, for my team, this is what they'll get.
00:57:07
Speaker
And making sure that that is protected, and I protect that and I am their voice in those conversations where that is starting to get chipped away at again.
00:57:15
Speaker
So that's really one of the privileges that I have being in the position I am is the ability to advocate for what my team needs, and kind of hold the line on that stuff.
00:57:25
Speaker
I'm of the opinion that anybody that doesn't adapt to younger workers, workers who need more accommodations and just basic worker perks like work from home flexibility, we need to starve all those companies of talent, like Ruthless
00:57:40
Speaker
strategy time.
00:57:42
Speaker
Again, you'll hear my rants on the Patreon about this.
00:57:44
Speaker
I am 100% about starving companies who refuse to adapt to workers of talent.
00:57:50
Speaker
Even if they're a big company like Apple or Amazon, go there, do a couple years to get your 401k vested, take all their trade secrets, take all their training and take it to another company.
00:58:01
Speaker
Point blank period.
00:58:02
Speaker
Make it cost them.
00:58:04
Speaker
Sorry, I hate American work culture.
00:58:07
Speaker
Did you know?
00:58:08
Speaker
Did you guys know?
00:58:08
Speaker
Sorry if I haven't made that clear from my multiple rents.
00:58:11
Speaker
So, all right.
00:58:12
Speaker
Probably racist great time now, isn't it?
00:58:15
Speaker
Yeah, Rose's Grow time.
00:58:17
Speaker
Thank you so much, June, for sharing your story with us, both personally and professionally.
00:58:22
Speaker
You've brought so much insight to the podcast and it was really, really great to hear from you.
00:58:26
Speaker
And thank you for being part of FDS as well.
00:58:30
Speaker
I've seen your comments in the Discord and I know that our members there really, really appreciate your insight.
00:58:37
Speaker
So thank you.
00:58:38
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for having me.
00:58:40
Speaker
Thank you.
00:58:40
Speaker
And obviously, finishing capping off
00:58:43
Speaker
An FDS episode won't be an FDS episode without some form of roast somewhere.
00:58:47
Speaker
So June, the floor is yours.
00:58:50
Speaker
Do you have any scrote past or present in your life that you want to put on the FDS barbecue because it's summertime and the FDS barbecue has been put in storage for some time, but we're going to whip it out today again to roast June's scrote.
00:59:07
Speaker
I had to get into the archives here because there's so many to choose from.
00:59:12
Speaker
But the one that kind of sticks out to me is somebody... I mentioned this sort of... Let's call it a situationship.
00:59:19
Speaker
Let's call it what it really was.
00:59:21
Speaker
Situationship.
00:59:22
Speaker
Earlier, when I talked about the gaslighting infographic that I saw and I ended this situationship is this particular situation.
00:59:31
Speaker
So this relationship was...
00:59:33
Speaker
horrible.
00:59:34
Speaker
It was, you know, I was crying all the time.
00:59:37
Speaker
And he was just like gaslighter, manipulator, like was didn't take care of his mental health, whatever, all of these things.
00:59:44
Speaker
And so I ended it and I said, basically, like, lose my number, blocked and deleted, whatever.
00:59:50
Speaker
So this was three years ago, about a month ago, I get a text out of the blue.
00:59:55
Speaker
And I
00:59:56
Speaker
It's like, hey, I had a dream about you.
00:59:59
Speaker
And I'm like, you know, who is this?
01:00:01
Speaker
And of course, this person is like, so offended that I didn't know who they were.
01:00:06
Speaker
So offended.
01:00:07
Speaker
And so, you know, he tells me who it is.
01:00:09
Speaker
And I'm like, like new phone, who is exactly the audacity for him to think that he would still matter, or that you would even recognize him years after the fact is just complete screw audacity.
01:00:22
Speaker
three years after.
01:00:23
Speaker
And it's not like we ended on good terms, like, Oh, this just isn't working out.
01:00:27
Speaker
It was like, don't ever talk to me, lose my phone number, like it ended like spectacularly bad.
01:00:34
Speaker
And so it was kind of like, I'm curious, right?
01:00:36
Speaker
I'm curious.
01:00:37
Speaker
I'm like, Okay, you know, what is this about?
01:00:40
Speaker
And, you know, he's like, I had a dream about you.
01:00:43
Speaker
And, you know, it just got me thinking.
01:00:45
Speaker
And,
01:00:46
Speaker
And so I kind of, you know, I poked the bear a little bit because I couldn't not poke the bear on this situation, which I don't recommend.
01:00:53
Speaker
I do not recommend doing that.
01:00:54
Speaker
But in this situation, I kind of was like, I'm curious because it was so out of the blue.
01:00:58
Speaker
And so I'm kind of like, Oh, what's this about?
01:01:01
Speaker
Oh, you know, you're the one that got away.
01:01:03
Speaker
And I've been thinking about you a lot lately.
01:01:05
Speaker
And I think it's really important to note that when he and I were involved, he lived a few hours away.
01:01:10
Speaker
And he was also, we were not exclusive or anything.
01:01:13
Speaker
And he was seeing another woman that lived locally.
01:01:16
Speaker
And he was like back and forth between the two of us all the time.
01:01:19
Speaker
And I knew I was the emotional fluffer, if you will, she couldn't give him the emotional side.
01:01:25
Speaker
So he kind of used me to get that the kind of like that kind of connection.
01:01:30
Speaker
And she was the physical connection for him.
01:01:32
Speaker
It was a
01:01:33
Speaker
super gross situation.
01:01:35
Speaker
And so he's like, you know, I've missed talking to you.
01:01:38
Speaker
No one's connected with me like you did.
01:01:41
Speaker
You just really understood me.
01:01:43
Speaker
I mean, spewing complete bullshit.
01:01:46
Speaker
And I'm like somebody who's this kind of like depraved is doing this with other people too.
01:01:51
Speaker
Like, absolutely.
01:01:52
Speaker
And it's just kind of reaching into the vault to see what women he can text to try to get, I don't know, some attention from.
01:01:59
Speaker
So I'm like, okay, now I'm really curious.
01:02:01
Speaker
So I do some sleuthing.
01:02:03
Speaker
I'm like, I find this dude's Facebook.
01:02:05
Speaker
He is married.
01:02:07
Speaker
He was not married.
01:02:09
Speaker
When we were involved three years ago, he is married to the other woman that he was involved with at the same time as me.
01:02:16
Speaker
He's married to her now.
01:02:18
Speaker
Isn't that always the way though?
01:02:19
Speaker
Because I feel like a lot of my exes or acquaintances who have popped up out of the blue, it's because they were, they have made some huge commitment that they're probably freaking out about or they are planning to and therefore trying to like, I don't know, have someone else save.
01:02:37
Speaker
Backpedal?
01:02:38
Speaker
Yeah, backpedal, have someone else save them from themselves or like pretend like they actually had other options when they don't.
01:02:44
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's absolutely.
01:02:45
Speaker
So it gets worse because then I'm looking through these pictures and I realized that she is massively pregnant in a picture that was about a month old.
01:02:57
Speaker
So I asked him about this.
01:02:59
Speaker
And literally the day he texted me was the day after she gave birth to their child.
01:03:05
Speaker
And I just shit.
01:03:08
Speaker
Wow.
01:03:09
Speaker
The like physical reaction I had to this was just like, immediately nauseous from this stuff like that is like why it's so hard to like men as people because I just feel like that's such a unique
01:03:19
Speaker
weekly mail thing to do, like wait till your partner has just like probably made the biggest physical, mental, emotional sacrifice that they could possibly ever make for a person and just find that opportunity to completely disrespect them and go behind their back.
01:03:33
Speaker
Like why right then?
01:03:34
Speaker
What is with guys like that?
01:03:36
Speaker
Well, I think what kind of I thought through it, right?
01:03:39
Speaker
And I was thinking about, okay, so when we were involved, there was kind of this like, quote, unquote, love triangle going on a couple years ago, she was the physical person, I was the emotional person.
01:03:50
Speaker
So he was getting everything he needed from the two of us.
01:03:52
Speaker
Well, I guarantee you for the last
01:03:54
Speaker
you know, however long, like in your third trimester, I don't think you're like getting down all the time with your partner.
01:04:00
Speaker
So my guess is he wasn't getting the physical thing from her.
01:04:04
Speaker
And so, you know, and then you can't have sex for six weeks after you give birth that he's now reaching out because he's like starved for attention.
01:04:13
Speaker
It just like, I'm not going to lie.
01:04:15
Speaker
That's part of the reason why a small part of the reason why I decided to become child free, because most men just don't deserve to
01:04:22
Speaker
have their genes passed down they just become so scroty and shitty after their wife gives birth like it's ridiculous
01:04:31
Speaker
I know I felt so sad for his wife, like for his wife in that moment.
01:04:36
Speaker
And it just, it was so transparent to me, I guess what, you know, what was going on here.
01:04:41
Speaker
So of course, you know, ultimately I told him to kick rocks and a shout out to my partner for helping me craft all these text messages.
01:04:50
Speaker
He was right there alongside me pulling strings with me.
01:04:53
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:56
Speaker
A man that can roast other men with you.
01:04:58
Speaker
Oh, goals.
01:04:59
Speaker
Those who roast together, stay together is what they say.
01:05:04
Speaker
So on that note, that's our show.
01:05:06
Speaker
Check us out on Twitter at fem.strat and on our Patreon for weekly bonus content, as well as the Discord, as well as merchandise, as well as submitting your roast to scrotes or queen shits if you want us to read it on the podcast.
01:05:20
Speaker
You can discuss this episode on the website on thefemaledatingstrategy.com as well as our Instagram page at underscore thefemaledatingstrategy.
01:05:30
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens.
01:05:31
Speaker
And for all you boomerang scrotes out there, we still don't want you.
01:05:35
Speaker
Die mad.
01:05:36
Speaker
And die alone.
01:05:37
Speaker
See y'all next week.
01:05:38
Speaker
See you next week.
01:05:40
Speaker
Bye.