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Historical Epics!
13 Plays1 month ago
Time-travelling through the past with historical epics like '300', 'Braveheart', & 'The Last Samurai'. Today's episode features 'Kingdom of Heaven' - focusing on both versions - the theatrical release and director's cut.
Next Week: Gladiator!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Overview
00:00:03
Speaker
You're listening to the Sleepy Games Podcast.
00:00:32
Speaker
And we are back. Hello, hello for another episode of the Sippy Games Podcast. We are your hosts, Sippy John. Sippy John, are you there?
Hosts & Topics Introduction
00:00:41
Speaker
Yeah, buddy. There he is. And I'm here as always, James Games. We're here for another episode going into historical epics that we'll get to later on the show to prep for our viewing of Glennie or two.
00:00:57
Speaker
coming up later. Well, I guess it'll be in December. Yeah. Anyways. Um, historical
Historical Epics & Kendrick Lamar's Album
00:01:03
Speaker
epics. No, I want to go. So that, that, that, that, that, that, that I watched or like not watch something that, that, that caught my eye this weekend. So we, we talked about previous in the show with when this happens. I don't know if you remember, but we, we, we briefly brought up like the, uh, the great rap beef of 2024.
Rap Beef: Drake vs. Kendrick Lamar
00:01:24
Speaker
I do remember between it was ah ah Drake and Kendrick Lamar, wasn't it? Yes. And Kendrick Lamar came out with a surprise album on Friday. And and I've been listening to it nonstop. I love it. It's great. And then so, you know, and the beef's supposedly over, you know, Kendrick won, blah, blah, blah. But so Drake has now fallen on, well,
00:01:50
Speaker
He hasn't technically followed lawsuits. He's in the making of following a lawsuit against his label and Kendrick, against um yeah for defamation, and that his song has been getting fake streams, that or how you say, botted streams, like robot streams, yeah okay to to to grow the song's popularity.
00:02:17
Speaker
And I'm like, oh my God, this is such a bitch move on his part. But I'm like, it's also a very Drake move. But I bring this up because, you know, I feel bad for all the Drake fans out there because I'm like, man, he's just.
00:02:31
Speaker
I don't know how you can still be a fan of his, like after all this. Like he's just, he's just digging his own grave. Okay. I mean, what one of the things I've always said too is like, I try to separate, I guess, uh, the art from the artist, right? I mean, I don't like, because it's like you start hearing about controversies and yeah criminal offenses and everything like that. All of a sudden you're like, wow, there's like, I can't watch 95% of the movies and music out there. So yeah ging yeah so so so that there's that that avenue. i but I do agree with you, man.
Drake's Career Reflection
00:03:03
Speaker
Like they're rappers. I mean, like, yeah, if if you're, if you're rapping and you're beefing. Yeah. The boxing ring is, is in their verses, right? Exactly. don't You don't get the courts involved. but Like you think of all the great beefs in history. You think of, you know, like
00:03:19
Speaker
With the music, I mean, let's put Biggie and Tupac away from this. Or it really escalates, dude. Yes. But as far as beefs, we've got the most heated, where it just fizzled out. You had 50 Cent and Ja Rule. 50 Cent destroyed Ja Rule, completely hurt his career. And 50 Cent said some nasty stuff.
00:03:44
Speaker
Javelin didn't go to the courts. like He took it like a mate. He took it on the chin. He's like, yeah, I lost. And then he had Jay-Z and Nas. Nas killed Jay-Z. And I think Jay-Z, it turned out the better for him. He's like the biggest hip hop mogul in the world. And he he's like he's like one the he's a billionaire and everything. So I just think Drake has just taken this the wrong way. like what What he should have done is just like,
00:04:12
Speaker
gone silent for like a year and like you know go to like the yeah somewhere tropical and just lay low get away from social media and then just like come back with a vengeance you know like like come out with a killer album like have some killer features or or switch it up a bit and do all that but but But, you know, fallin law it's like, no, you don't do that in hip hop. It's like he's he's just this guy, man. ah Maybe his maybe his peak glory days are behind him. Maybe he just maybe doesn't have him in him and it doesn't have it in him any anymore. That's true. I mean, i mean he has been in the game for like ever. I mean, know over a decade now, I mean, probably 15 years, maybe over that. So.
00:04:55
Speaker
Yeah, and that's that's a long time. That's a long time. It is. And it's a long time to be like, I guess, I don't want to say like at the top, popular like definitely known.
Art vs. Artist Debate
00:05:06
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. After because you you make your breakout album, and then you might make one or two more. And then I find that a lot of a lot of artists dip dip in quality after that. so Yeah, usually a lot of artists like their first album, like what is like their best album. And like, they're never never able to replicate that again. Yeah. well It gets to your head. Yeah, the money gets to your head. We gotta explore that more in our next Magic of Music episode. Ooh, I like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ooh, to be continued, I like it. Hell yeah.
Super Bowl & Ravens Hopes
00:05:43
Speaker
All right, but yeah, I just wanna get it off my chest because I just been bumping that album and because I'm not the biggest Kendrick fan, it makes me more excited for the Super Bowl. And I think I told you this, if the Ravens make it to the Super Bowl, I'm going.
00:05:55
Speaker
because I'll be able to see the Ravens and Kendrick Lamar live. so like My favorite football team, my favorite ah artist together on one stage. That sounds pretty good. <unk>d be like oh there I'll never need to go to Super Bowl again. like i Nothing will be able to top it. Yeah, yeah I mean, I don't know. Super Bowl would be a pretty cool thing to to attend, man. And it's in New Orleans. New Orleans. That's pretty sweet, man. It's such a cool city. So I'm rooting for him. So hopefully it happens.
'Kingdom of Heaven' Discussion Begins
00:06:26
Speaker
But anyway, shall we get into this episode? ah We shall. ah Beforehand, I gotta to ask you something. This is ah the off the show and I'll edit this out. like i Can you hear this chiming noise on my end or is that just...
00:06:40
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, perfect. I've got this stupid pop-up that keeps popping up. If I'm the only one that can hear it, then I don't give a shit. I just wanted to make sure you couldn't hear it. Yeah, I can't hear it at all. You're all good. Perfect. that well I'll just ignore it then when it's coming up. Sounds good. yeah and then we'll So we'll dive into historical epics.
00:07:02
Speaker
So what we we want to dive into the film that we watched this week. It was a new film for the both of us, Kingdom of Heaven. and new New for us, not not new by any means. Yes, I said new for us. I said that. Did you? Yeah, I did. So so it's um it came out in 2005. So I watched the director's cut, and you, John, you watched the theatrical version of the film. I did, yes.
00:07:31
Speaker
So I think it'd be best if you tell me, if you go into the theatrical version first, okay and then then I'll go, and then I'll pick up with that with the directors. Well, for first, tell us what you thought of it and then go into what you thought of the film.
00:07:46
Speaker
All right, well, to start off with, I had no idea ah what this movie was about. I knew, obviously, it was a historical epic and that there was like some warfare going on and stuff like that. That was the gist of it. I had no idea ah what it was pertaining to. ah And I mean, obviously, you watched it too. I don't know if you had any idea what it was about. I do. I know it went to the Crusades and like christian Christianity versus in Islam and Jerusalem. Right. Yeah. Which, you know,
00:08:16
Speaker
So and I find it interesting that, you know, they, okay, like, I guess to start, I have no idea because I'm assuming this is based on somewhat historical events. I don't know the accuracy. I didn't look into the accuracy. I'm just, I'm just watching. I did. it's own merit okay well I'll go to it later. yeah Yeah. Sounds good. Sounds good. So I'm just going to give a review based on just the movie itself. Like I think that for the theatrical version,
00:08:44
Speaker
I guess in a like having gone into this knowing, I guess that the director's cut is better probably made the movie a bit better for me because what I can say is like there were definitely some times where there's like there were some weird pacing issues. it's like But he shows up and then he's like, hey, man, I'm your dad. And then and then and then he's just like, oh, cool. And then his townspeople with like no explanation are like, yeah, man, no one likes you here. Get the fuck out. And he's like, oh, OK. And then he goes and joins up with him and like that is literally the fucking scene of the a theatrical version. I was like, that that was a lot that just OK, there's not really a whole lot of explanation or context or or anything like, OK.
00:09:26
Speaker
wait way wait i gotta go to this right away we can okay because because this is best if if if i pick up with with the directors version in my well yeah yeah' not a bad idea sure because like i can want do that because because i want i want to put i want ah put the pieces in the puzzle for you okay um and the beginning of the film that is with Orlando Bloom.
Director's Cut vs. Theatrical Version
00:09:55
Speaker
Right. Well, I guess it's what two scenes that you see with him and then like he, we're getting the spoilers. He ends up stabbing him, right? Yes, he killed him. yeah so So that guy's actually his brother. And the director's cut, if it's told that that's his brother. There's scenes where there's like,
00:10:17
Speaker
There's like four or I think four scenes added in the director's cut where they established the relationship more. Right. And then he's kind of like in a light and ileda blooms very much like being a, I guess like a pacifist in a way, like ah he's kind of like tossing him and like, like, oh, come on, hit me. Like, I i really i like trying to get in his head and trying to make him feel something because, you know, I mean, he he did he did lose his wife and by a suicide. I assume they went into that in theatrical.
00:10:46
Speaker
that she died. Yes, they they quickly they they don't really go into it. They just allude to the fact that he did they show her? Do they show her in the theatrical? No, they they show nothing. So basically, you just hear that ah he lost his child and then his wife committed suicide. And that's that's pretty much all the exposition that they give for that. That's it. Yeah, just say it. Yeah. And then then then the brother like he's he's at the grave with Orlando bru Bloom. He's like still moaning and soaking, sulking over it.
00:11:16
Speaker
um And then it kind of it builds more and into the scene before he kills him. Right. Because then I'm like, oh man, I hate this guy. got Get him. it but Then I'm like, well, he's your brother. But he's acting like a way in him. But I think it's kind of like what gives Elena Bloom the push to like get out there and follow and get over um his wife ah dying and everything. and and do what he needs to do so that's that's interesting how it didn't even say like that was his brother no it didn't like it was just uh he said like nobody likes you and then yeah i like yeah i'm trying to remember i thought he made like some sort of fucking rude comment uh i think about his what is his dead wife and then and then yes yeah he did he did and and and and then i was just like i was like i get it but i was like that you went straight to my
00:12:08
Speaker
yeah murder like ah okay like i whatever man yeah yeah so he was worse to him in other scenes i think i think he just reached the boiling point that's what it was yeah i don't know i mean i like and that's the thing to you right so it's uh okay well good to know so yeah it's his brother yep uh that that was not at all uh made clear so and then i guess like you proceed Uh, two when he meets up with, uh, uh, why am I drawing a blank there? Liam Neeson? T-Taken. I'm gonna call him Taken. Liam Neeson, I had no idea he was in the movie. Yeah, so... I was a blunt surprise. I guess he's not in it for very long. Uh, but all the scenes that he was in, he owned. He owned every scene he was in. Of course he does, Liam Neeson. Like, his acting...
00:12:59
Speaker
I miss that acting of Liam Neeson. He doesn't do that kind of acting anymore. You know? I guess he's just taking and everything that he does. but That's what he does. He's just taking. Good one. Good one. Anyways. Anyways.
00:13:15
Speaker
ah so goes that links up with them and then like I guess they they found out that you know you killed his way what I now know is his brother uh so the soldiers I guess ah come and look for him and then Liam Neeson's like no fuck you like he's my he's my he's my boy you're not taking my baby boy yeah it just makes you understand
Character Development & Plot Critiques
00:13:39
Speaker
so it's not because it's half it's half brother so Liam Neeson is in relation to the to the guy he killed oh Okay, well, just just it's just the same. name Yeah, regardless. I mean, yeah, he's like, you know, I can take my baby boy and then like fighting sues And then yeah, and then obviously he Liam Neeson gets wounded and then they go back to I guess Jerusalem there and then what what I found interesting was like his like Leah or not. So Orlando blooms like
00:14:11
Speaker
I'd say rise to power is is very quick. like oh oh not oh i a mother And then he's like, yeah awesome. And it was like, look, you're in charge of all this. And he's like, cool. You know what I mean? Well, it' ah so so it's it's that how like he's able to, well, I assume it went into the, did it share like him on a ship and then he was the only survivor on the ship?
00:14:36
Speaker
Yes, well, yeah, so he shipwrecks. Yeah, he does. And then... Yeah, he's almost... Okay, I skipped over, I guess, a part that is, I'm sure, crucial to the plot, and i am probably, obviously, still crucial in the directors. So, and then he encounters the guy that says that it's his horse, which turns out to eventually be, like, the the the enemy, I guess, right?
00:15:06
Speaker
well em Am I not making sense to you? No, no, I'm trying to to understand what scene you're talking about. So right after you right after he comes to on the ship, there's a horse yeah that also survived. And then he grabs this horse and then Buddy and his servant come up and they're just like, yo, like that's my man's horse. like Get off. And then he's like, hey, like I'll fight you for it. Ends up killing the guy. yeah And then the other one who ends up eventually becoming like the enemy like but but for the other other yeah yeah he ends up being the enemy but he's also like you know he he kind of he saves him later yeah like there's some you know that there's some uh yeah some some some there's or i don't think there's much difference between him him in the theatrical and then the director's cut
00:15:53
Speaker
yeah so anyway so there was there was that point and then yeah and then yes so but but when he gets so so yeah like that there there is the shipwreck there is that he showed and then he basically shows up in jerusalem he tells buddy it's like hey you can go like you know take the horse and stuff like that you know fuck off and he's like oh really like he's like yeah because i'm a cool guy and then Basically, and from there, and again, like I might be skipping over some scenes, but it just like basically he he he starts to take over and empower and prominence and stuff like that in in Jerusalem. Like, slowly but surely. actually but that's just it is like I wouldn't say it was slow, it seemed like
00:16:36
Speaker
Again, kind of like expedited, I guess. It was just like somebody saw him on the street and they're just like, yo, man, like you should kind of be like more in charge. And then they put him in charge of his land. And then he's like, this land is shit. I got to find the water. And then they say, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
00:16:57
Speaker
so you told me this blacksmith from completely different side of the world is going into Jerusalem and all of a sudden he's like the best when it comes to agriculture and knows exactly what to do to find water and everything that needs to be in this entirely different climate. Like what?
00:17:21
Speaker
i mean i Like I could always suspend my disbelief so much when like you tell me like okay, you have this bastard because it's blacksmith Okay so that like there because you all there for this explanation is what you're saying yeah there's the explanation that yeah he's got Education and management in agriculture somewhere yeah yeah other than being a blacksmithy you know it else if there was lighting on the side Yeah, I don't really know well, okay, I mean like I ah Who knows, right? I mean, like I get it. Like, yeah, that's kind of retarded. Well, no, so I bring this up because when we talk about historical accuracies, I'll bring it up later. OK, sounds good. OK, that makes sense. ah And then, yeah, so like, but I mean, honestly, like, like, but like the the I'm not I don't necessarily want to go like play by play, like get forward here. No, but but but but I do want to go into some of the
00:18:22
Speaker
Because I thought after Liam Neeson kicked the bucket, yeah, I thought the next person who stole the show was um King, um King Baldwin, the guy, the the leper with the mask. Right? Yeah, I thought he stole the show. Everything he was in. And you do you know what actor played him? I don't know who played him. That was Edward Norton. Interesting. Uh huh. Okay.
00:18:50
Speaker
And I wish there were more scenes of him. Because you talk about somebody who's commanding the screen with just a mask on. and Right. It's pretty impressive to do. I really like that character a lot.
00:19:04
Speaker
and and But but i mean a lot of characters, I mean, some some of the characters I was liking. Um, of course ah it was good to see Eva green. I've loved Eva green ever since Christina. Right.
00:19:17
Speaker
yeah been before it was right It was before. casino royalo Yeah. And it made me like, it made me like look her up too. So like, man, I haven't seen her anything in a while. Like where's she coming in or what's she coming out with? And it's all just coming down with the movie.
00:19:31
Speaker
with the same director who did Cassini Royale, and she's the star. coming down next Coming out next month, next month, John. okay We gotta watch it. But it's called Dirty Angels. Dirty Angels, let's go. That then that sounds intriguing. Yeah, it does. But anyway, I digress. ah ah But getting back into where Elena Bloom's character is, because you he sees the star, so we eventually know Once he's had his time fixing up his land and everything's all, he ends up getting with them ah Eva Green, who is the princess, ah but she's also married. So she's having an affair with Orlando Bloom, but we don't like the guy because the guy's an asshole. He's, he's, he's on, he's on the Christianity side, but and and like, ah like they're like Christianity side of, um,
00:20:30
Speaker
I guess their knights were quite brutal, like like assholes. like why That's just it. I mean, like they and but like both sides, realistically, are are are kind of just being assholes. It's like, yeah you got the Christians on one side being like, oh, I'm going to kill you in the name of God. And then the Muslims are just like, oh, I'm also going to kill you in the name of God.
00:20:53
Speaker
I know. So like, you know, yeah, I don't think either side was was trying to be portrayed as as as quote, being the good guys. i think That's true. That's very true. Yeah. And like, you know, and and not not I'm not going to say that I know a detailed history of that area of the world, but i and you know I'm sure it's very common knowledge that that those areas have been points of contention for what are what is coming up on Millenia now.
Main Character's Role & Exposition
00:21:23
Speaker
i
00:21:25
Speaker
um but but But I guess I want to talk about some conveniences with the Light of Blooms character. It's like, okay, yeah, so he goes on Jerusalem. But everyone that he meets, he's like, oh, I know your father. I loved him. That means I love you. Oh, I love your father. I love you too. Even Eva Green is like, I loved your father and I love you too. I'm like, wow. You said Eva Green said, I love you and you just met her.
00:21:47
Speaker
No wonder you guys hooked up so fast. Like, oh my god. Jesus. I mean, that's Orlando Bloom, man. Like, he especially, especially at that time. Like, come on, man. I mean, yeah, but what he's played a whole bunch of orcs. He's played some pirates. He did it all before then. He was the Christian Slater of the mid 2000s there. Like, it's, you know, like early mid 2000s. I just don't like a character who like isn't developed a lot. He was just like,
00:22:17
Speaker
Everything's so convenient for me. It's like, I can do everything. Everybody loves me. Like, I don't really need much development at all because I already know everything and have everything handed to me. Okay. So, so what you're saying though, is the director's cut, his his character's not really expanded upon very much though. Yeah. So his character, his character is the least expanded upon. That's like, it's the other characters that expanded upon more. That's like,
00:22:43
Speaker
I don't really okay. I just haven't watched the theatrical like I'm not sure that that's. Well, okay, I wouldn't mind as some expansion of some characters. Yes, but it's like I definitely wanted to learn more about like Orlando Bloom and is like and why I guess like his I can tell I'll tell you why the they wanted to make his character more interesting by giving him a background of being a bastard in a blacksmith.
00:23:11
Speaker
But really that is not historically accurate at all. yeah but that that doesn't like does anyone care about that like no no no he's he's little his his mission or His role in the film is to be that fish out of the water.
00:23:28
Speaker
So he can be explained everything that's happening from the story. Lazy exposition, I got you. Yes. exactly There it is. Lazy exposition. It's kind of like making the main the main character really stupid because then everyone has to explain everything to him. Yes. But in this case, that they make his character know everything. I mean, not know everything, but like have everything handed to him and just explain to him and then like, oh, I got it. Good. Oh, you you make me the leader, like the leader for this battle. Great.
00:23:55
Speaker
If you give me the role, then I'll i'll just know what what to do. because you know be Because it's written for me. It's written that I knew all this. I mean, I actually got blacksmith in the Pirates movies. I mean, he made it. He made a good captain. that's tu He was a blacksmith in Pirates too. For what I assume, like realistically based on what they tell you in the movie, that he has never left land. But now all of a sudden, there he is sailing boats. Yep. and Being a pirate.
00:24:28
Speaker
er ah Okay, so... Wait, okay, so I want to go into the big... ah ah No, actually, so for the theatrical, go back to Eva Green's character.
Eva Green's Character Analysis
00:24:44
Speaker
Yes. So I know in the theatrical that you watch, she makes a choice to... um I think that the husband just becomes king. but if She says something about him becoming king and then like, so she can save some people, I think.
00:25:01
Speaker
Do you remember? Yeah, like I'm trying to remember yes. Cause like if he became King, yeah, I think that that's, I forget why, but yeah, like there was, but like, but basically it's like, yeah, it would make things like it's easier in some respects, but I don't, I don't really remember the gist of it. Yeah. So in, in the director's cut,
00:25:30
Speaker
ah well It seemed like in Theatrical, I guess she had a choice, but it just even came out of nowhere. It's like, all right, put this scene here. It's like, oh, okay. I guess like there's no other option than he's the king. I mean, okay. I'll be honest, like in in in the theatrical run, like Evergreen's character is like, it's almost like she doesn't need to be there.
00:25:52
Speaker
yeah and And that's like, I think it's a shame, especially with an actress of her talents. a But yeah, it's like the the characters, she's there, but it's like, there's not really ever a reason needing for, is is it different in the direction? So so her character's needed once her brother dies. King Baldwin. Okay. ah
00:26:17
Speaker
ah Edward Norton's character. So once she dies, she becomes a much cru crucial role because her son, yes, she has a son in the director's cut that becomes the king. Wow.
00:26:40
Speaker
oh Yeah, I could see why. Okay, like i like what okay i guess okay I got a question to ask. I was watching the movie, like my my overall review of the movie is like, it's not what I was expecting. Yeah, actually, it's not very battle heavy. It's not battle heavy. No, and and I get what they were trying to go for. Like, you know, they're really trying to go for like, there's not really a good guy. There's not really a bad guy, right? Just ah it's just a bunch of people that are ah have their hands forced, essentially by tradition, right? Like, yeah, it's different than ah they're fighting. for that height Yeah, they're fighting for for their religion.
00:27:17
Speaker
Yeah, they're well, they're continuing they're continuing the tradition or the or the historical, you know, the the the cycle of hatred, gives so to speak, like it's, you know, and and then you have these people that are caught in the middle. I actually thought it's a pretty interesting story. i i Because especially we're talking about historical epics and like the the other ones that we were going to briefly
Themes & Execution of 'Kingdom of Heaven'
00:27:40
Speaker
go over. I mean, these are just like hoorah, like let's just fucking kill these guys. There's a clear good guy, a clear bad guy.
00:27:46
Speaker
you know this one obviously you know it's offering i think something a bit more you know it has a bit more depth in that regard so i actually thought it might not be out too bad of a movie you know i guess if it was done just a little bit differently and that's what i was hoping that the director's cut would be so like i guess in a word or two like did you enjoy the movie and on the director's cut or is it just kind of still too mishmashy weird i it's like I just thought it was good. It's not the masterpiece that was happening to me. It's still just... It's just a bit uneven. alright to look like like Some parts I was liking and some parts were just dragging. And then I was just like, all right, can we get to everybody? Sometimes I was like, man, I feel like even as the director, it's kind of like some scenes could have been shortened.
00:28:41
Speaker
um right but like like but But some of the scenes, like the ones I'm telling, I felt were crucial to the story. Where other others, I feel like, were we're kind of just padded, you know just for padding. And I can't, you were saying about like how you know there's no, like you everyone, isn' no like bad there' there's there's no black and white characters, but I feel like the the Christians, like there's they they made them a little more like cartoony, one-note bad guys, which I didn't really like.
00:29:13
Speaker
uh yeah i mean like i i like based on what i yeah what i watched i mean i i definitely think that the muslims were were coming up and looking a little bit better which yes they were i guess it realistically i mean they probably are owed one in hollywood yeah yeah in real like uh because yeah like i remember the one scene where he basically at the end of the movie near at the very end of the movie and they're they're negotiating and then uh well i know bloom's there with that sahla dean or whatever and then he's just like he's like he's like yeah like you're actually gonna let my people walk out of here he's like because when the christians came in like they they killed and they they
00:29:56
Speaker
they killed absolutely everyone inside and then basically his, you know, Saladin's response was like, well, like that's, that's not, that's not me. That's all yeah I'm all about. Yep. I like that too. again like You know, that they're making it, you know, I guess a little bit. And again, like, ah I didn't really get the impression that they're the good guys either. I mean, realistically, like,
00:30:19
Speaker
Yeah, they're just they're starting a bunch of shit too, right? Like, you know, it's that there really isn't a good guy, no bad guy. Yeah, some people might look worse this time around, but then it's like, well, look at the last war, look at the war coming. Like, yeah everyone is eventually going to be the asshole for sure. So.
00:30:39
Speaker
yeah but it was interesting like in in that regard and i mean again like i didn't know what the movie was about i was like i guess it to me it's it's a shame because i feel like it's a really good story i just don't think it was executed well yeah i i agree 100 like because there is a good story there yeah i say like certain Aspects should have been fleshed out more and others should have been just put by the way said because cuz my review was gonna be remember how I was saying I think it was two episodes ago about how ah Rocky Rocky for like yeah he single-handedly ended the Cold War this ah Kingdom of heaven if executed correctly is
00:31:21
Speaker
possibly could have resolved all tensions in that area of the world. But it it fell short and Orlando Bloom. And still at work. I hope you lose a bit of sleep over that. I guess Ridley Scott too. Yeah, you guys you guys dropped the ball. Well, I think I think I think Orlando Bloom had some duds that year. And I think I think his career like kind of went downhill since then.
00:31:52
Speaker
Like he never had like like starring roles or like big starring roles. I think after that. Well, yeah, but his this is a thing too is like and I and I realized I mean, there's also Lord of the Rings. But I think one of the problems is that he's not the main character of Lord of the Rings. The movie that he is the main character in Pirates of the Caribbean. He's whoa, whoa, whoa, what?
00:32:18
Speaker
He's the main character in that? He's the main character in Pirates of the Caribbean. Yeah, he is. What? Either him or Elizabeth. It's up to you. It's either him or Elizabeth Turner. It's not Jack Sparrow.
00:32:33
Speaker
We'll debate that. In the original Pirates! Jack Sparrow's not the main character in that movie. You can have... You actually don't agree?
00:32:48
Speaker
I mean, I guess he is considered a supporting role, but I think because like, I think because he just steals every scene. That's why I think he's the main guy. He steals every scene, but I'm saying that the story is told by Will Turner, by Orlando Bloom. Like it's his perspective. It's his story is is is what I'm saying. Like kind of no different than. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah I see ah Orlando and Elizabeth or Will and Elizabeth being co-leads.
00:33:15
Speaker
Yeah, so it's kind of like it's kind of similar to Luke Skywalker in Star Wars. And again, like youre you you never want your lead, ah I guess, if you're the actor to be forgettable because like he doesn't have any lines. Everyone thinks jack it's Jack Sparrow's movie. like Jack Sparrow has some cool lines. Barbarossa has some cool lines. so the yes yeah the next line And the next two, Jack is the lead.
00:33:40
Speaker
Exactly because like and that's what that was the problem with Orlando Bloom is like when he was chosen to be the lead He wasn't a lead and then I think that his career suffered initially because of that and then concurrently I guess with the I guess well with movies like this and and I don't think that he did I think he did a good job in Troy because I think there's another one we're gonna be talking about but I don't think that it really helped him if he was trying to go pursuing a bit more of an actiony career because like He really acts like a little bitch Yeah And it's like and it's fine like I think you did a good job good job as an actor I get it but it's like if you're trying to pursue those types of roles afterwards it's like man like you you hobbled between buddies legs on camera like it It's not gonna it's not gonna help you out any
00:34:33
Speaker
i We're just playing. Yeah, I'm been trying to like see if there's like anything else that he was like a big star and there's nothing. Yeah, well, the the other thing, too, is possible. Some people just don't really want to be A-list or celebrities, which I get it. Yeah, I get it. It's not something I would want. And if ever it's like, holy shit, and they like, nope, I'm ah taking a reprieve for a while. Like, I did not want it to get that big. But yeah, anyways, I mean, like, so it could be it could 100 percent have been by choice. I don't
Final Review & Rating
00:35:05
Speaker
know. And I mean, I guess I don't really I don't really care on the way or the other. hand Sure.
00:35:10
Speaker
So I guess I just came back to it if you want to give our review. You got to talk about the historical stuff. Oh, oh, yeah, yeah. OK, so historical inaccuracies. So a lot of Bloom's character. Wait, I want to do the review first and then do that. OK, sure. Yeah, let's do the review and then we'll do that. Sure, let's do it. Yeah, I'll probably give it a three. So if it comes around on TV, I'd probably watch it again.
00:35:40
Speaker
Uh, yeah, you you gave a ah ah a review one time where you're just like, I would kind of like fall asleep, do it. Like if I was, it was on TV, I'd be like, yeah, and then I'd probably fall asleep halfway through it. You know, cause there's some scenes I really, really like.
00:35:58
Speaker
And then there's others I'm just like, Oh my God, can we get to it already? ah When, when, when Jerusalem's being taken and there's that siege, like that, that scene, I thought that there was some pretty neat scenes in that one. Yeah. Like, like battle sequences. That was pretty neat. So yeah, like again, like it's not, it's not a movie that. Do somehow the the the best battle technician like ever.
00:36:23
Speaker
It just, yeah. Yeah. Again, like from a blacksmith. is this its ah yeah He's a blacksmith. Yeah. So anyways, yeah, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want a blacksmith bastard. Uh, yeah. So I guess we got two or three, I guess the average, average them out. We get, we get a 2.5, which I might groggily watch it, I guess. i And I guess going into it, I was expecting, I had higher expectations, I guess, because of what I've heard.
00:36:53
Speaker
right so that maybe i overhyped it a little bit too much but it did not meet expectations it might also be one of those things where like people because of the story and and because of what is trying to i guess get across people want it to be better you know what i mean and it's like it and it's it's too bad like i think they did a disservice by not You know, by, I guess, I don't know, because if both versions aren't really, yeah I don't know, maybe if they blended both and made something, I don't know. There's something there, but I don't think that they really flushed it
Historical Inaccuracies
00:37:27
Speaker
out. All right. So there's only one big historical inaccuracy I want to go into is that. Sounds good. Yeah. I landed lose character. Yep. He was actually born in Jerusalem and he was there the whole time.
00:37:42
Speaker
So all that him being away a blacksmith and being shipped over. That's all false. Right. like Okay. Like that's. so so So what's even like I get it for the like ah for the lazy exposition but like damn man like he's like all all that was like yeah that that was my first complaint.
00:38:17
Speaker
That almost makes the story a bit more compelling too, because like obviously he's trying to defend his home, like I- Yes, yes. People would do it, it makes more sense in his motivations. It's as muchation but much better connection to it. Right, and yeah you know, also having to choose to leave at the end too, like that's also rough, like that is your home, right? Yes, that's all he knows.
00:38:36
Speaker
Right, yeah, that that makes the story... Yeah, remember I was saying that how the original story is sometimes far more interesting than what Hollywood is doing with it, which I think is a shame. Yeah, so it's a shame. But... Fascinating. Maybe the story can be told, you know, years years from now when historical epics are in again.
Discussion on 'Troy'
00:38:59
Speaker
maybe gladiator too we'll bring it back it could could yeah i mean we got you got high hopes high hopes all right well uh did you still want to dive into a couple of other uh you know well you seem like you want to talk about Troy it's one of your favorites huh uh i don't know if i'd say that i i like Troy i thought it's good uh i think Like, it it definitely has some good scenes in it, like, and I liked it. Like, it it's a pretty solid movie. I think my only thing was, it was like... I... Like, the Trojan Horse, like, it comes from from the Trojan War, like, it comes from, like, this this the story. yeah And, like, they don't... It just, like... I guess just like a Trojan Horse, it just pops out of nowhere. And you're just like...
00:39:51
Speaker
Who's they deal with this? like you know i is There's no more to it than that? And it was like, here's the horse. Here's how this is gonna end. And you're like, okay, well, like I mean, I thought there was gonna be... like I know the story, but is like I thought there was some buildup or something. like ah Show me how you built the damn thing. like I don't know. No, otherwise, like i i liked I liked Troy. I thought it was...
00:40:17
Speaker
I thought it was pretty good. And granted, I haven't seen it since it came out, though. um I, you know, and a sometimes you watch something again, you're like, oh I remember that being and I actually saw that in theaters, too. So it was like, it's definitely and I think that that's a movie that ah benefits from being being in theaters. Yeah, that and Alexander came out the same year. I Yeah, we talked quickly about Alexander. Yeah, I don't think we need to watch that. I heard nothing about bad things.
00:40:47
Speaker
the I think one of the coolest things in Troy though is the opening scene where there's the two RMEs and there's like, hey you get your best, I'll get my best and we'll settle it that way. And then they get like this big big massive dude and then there's Brad Pitt on the other side. And then, do you remember the scene I'm talking about?
00:41:07
Speaker
Dude, I've probably been in it as long as, I haven't seen it since I was a heist. Okay, so I'm gonna lay this out for you because Brad Pitt's playing Achilles, right? Yes. And then I don't remember, and I actually think that the character on the other side might have been based on somebody, it doesn't really matter, but he's this big massive dude, right? Like twice the size of Achilles, essentially. Yeah, because Brad Pitt's not that really bigger guy.
00:41:28
Speaker
And then he comes up and he's got he's got his, his ah I think he's got, they they both got spears and and shields and and swords I guess. And then Buddy launches the first spear and then I think the first one he blocks it with his shield, his shield shatters. The second one Brad pitt like ducks out of the way of the spear and then he basically just jumps up and stabs the guy at the top of the neck.
00:41:54
Speaker
Yeah, and then his one one hit and then like as the guys falling down, he's like, is there no one else? Yeah, like I was like, damn, i that's the way to start a movie. Is is is this very, yeah are you not entertain moment?
00:42:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And ah yeah, it was it was pretty good. And then so yeah, like, I mean, just in general, like it was, I thought it was a pretty good movie, like, ah but again, it's been a long time since I've seen it. How about how about you? You got you got one you want to talk about?
Appreciation for 'The Last Samurai'
00:42:22
Speaker
The one I want to talk about quickly. I really love the The Last Samurai.
00:42:27
Speaker
You know what? um i I love that movie, actually. Yeah. Like, i it is, and I know that for some reason Tom Cruise needs to be a very divisive actor, but like, it is a terrific movie, even if you don't really care much for Tom Cruise. Yeah, his roles outside his wheelhouse, I feel like, are slept on, and like, and this one doesn't get talked talked about him enough, but I never talked it back, this whole, this movie just had me, in um I don't know if it's because I love, I'm fascinated by by the,
00:42:57
Speaker
you know, the the culture of the the Japanese world at that time. Yeah. um But it definitely spoke to me and I thought Tom Cruise, he fit the role perfectly. He did a really good job. ah Ken Watanabe. He was the highlight of the film. I would say that it's actually one of his movies with Tom Cruise also starring in it. yeah and and Yes. Ken was the highlight for sure. He was the highlight of the movie. Yes.
00:43:24
Speaker
And time complements his name very well. Yeah, yeah. So it's like, and it's it's, it's a really good movie. And actually, like, it's funny, because at the very end of the movie, ah they, they were, they reference they reference ah the Battle of of Thermopylae, the 300, right? the Yes. Yeah. And, and it's funny how, like, that movie is talking, because obviously 300 wasn't out yet, like the the movie and stuff like that.
00:43:52
Speaker
uh but yeah like the the the last scene is is an homage to i guess uh what happened and thermapoli i guess if if you're a historian or something like that but uh yeah it it that's a that's a really it actually of of the historical epics honestly i'd say that that that i guess well 300 is hard not to like just because it's 300 but It's amazing how like all these came around like within like a few years of each other.
2000s Historical Epics Popularity
00:44:21
Speaker
Yeah. the I feel like 2000 to 2010, we were just like bombarded with historical epics.
00:44:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. But, uh... I think I love people who just want to capitalize on the success of Gladiator. Well, I guess, way before you could say Braveheart, but I feel like Gladiator was like the one that like, oh, this feels like the most mainstream that we can capitalize on. I think Braveheart kind of started the whole thing. And I mean, at the time it had like, yeah, it was crazy budgets for these fight scenes and stuff like that. And it was kind of unheard of like some of the scenes that they were shooting. I remember that being kind of news at the time.
00:44:59
Speaker
And then yeah, so you went from and Braveheart and again like the length of Braveheart was like crazy for his like it's I mean It's pretty pretty standard these days, but I think I was telling you before I was like it like if you bought the or rented Braveheart on on VHS you needed two tapes for it Which was very rare that you get a movie that takes two fucking tapes Yeah, because Braveheart was how long?
00:45:26
Speaker
I want to say it was over three, just over three hours, but I, yeah, it says, it says two versions. It says one, two hours, 48 minutes. And another one, I guess the director's version three hours, 45 minutes. Okay. Oh yeah. So it's three hours in a bit then for sure. So, so it seemed like with, with gladiator, cause gladiator was like two and a half and we just under.
00:45:48
Speaker
So I feel like Hollywood kind of want to capitalize on like, all right, let's find like, that's like a sweet
Excitement for 'Gladiator 2'
00:45:53
Speaker
spot. We like, right if we can do around two and a half hours after think the perfect, we can do, we can make the most money yeah and still like tell a really captivating story. Yeah. Well. And then... it makes exciting Talk about this, it makes me more excited for Gladiator too.
00:46:10
Speaker
yeah Honestly, like it is because like a lot of these movies, like I enjoy it a fair bit. like i i definitely I like Braveheart, I think it's a good movie. I like Gladiator, I like Troy, I like Last Samurai, I like both 300 movies. I thought we were really well done. Actually, funnily enough, second 300 also has Ava Green in it. Oh yeah, Ava Green.
00:46:34
Speaker
and uh she does under any a good job in that one actually and is she not okay what is she not good i know but in that one they capitalize on her talents she has a role and she there's a need for her character to be there and the movie benefits for it o because like that That is, that is like, because i I don't like, as I've talked about, ah I think unnecessary sex scenes and in movies before, right? And it was like, and I really do feel like it should be a table of plot and what it is, how awesome it is. And like that movie has a sex scene. And and I love that one where she's basically trying, she's trying to make him come around and then he's just like, pun intended. And then he's just like, no.
00:47:24
Speaker
and like I remember like, we were in the movie theaters. I think everyone else was shocked and I was the only one laughing my ass. I was like, damn dude. Oh, that was good.
'300' Series Discussion
00:47:41
Speaker
But yeah, it's kind of, actually that would be, those are two movies where it's like, I couldn't even tell you which one I prefer more, which is pretty rare. I thought they were both really well done.
00:47:53
Speaker
I probably heard that I did not see the second one in theaters. I saw the first one in theaters. I saw both in theaters. I think the thing is too, I went in expecting very little of the second one and it surprised me because I was just like, well, okay, everyone's dead. What story are they? I was like, oh, okay. This actually makes sense. I was like, oh, these are actually pretty cool characters. I was like, oh, this is pretty cool.
00:48:16
Speaker
And I thought actually some of the ah the fight sequences were a little bit more interesting I think in the and in the second 300. Even though I'm pretty sure for the Spartans and that they were nowhere near captivating how they actually fought which was actually, from my understanding, very boring to watch. oh Well, because, wait, and again, I'm not a historian, and someone to correct me if I am wrong or whatever, but they basically, they he talks about in the first movie, they fight in a phalanx, which is basically everyone's swords, sorry, everyone's shields are all lined up in a row.
00:48:51
Speaker
uh and then they would basically just advance and it was is very very boring to watch because like that's just it it would be like this massive monster coming at you very slowly and uh and that's how they fought they don't don't have the phalanx in the initial stages of the battle and then they would all just break rank and then just basically go for free for all because it makes for more engaging uh uh I guess visuals and storytelling but apparently that's not how they fought you know I can't imagine that's how it actually was and I even knew as far as like the actual sort of accuracies that that was in 300 too like weren't
00:49:36
Speaker
Well, it's funny because somebody wrote a review because somebody else was commenting on historical accuracies, which I mean, I don't think that that that story was trying to be historically accurate or anything like that. Anyways, I mean, it took a bit of an exaggeration, but they said that you have to understand the story.
00:49:55
Speaker
Based on the way that the story is being told. It's being told by another Spartan. So of course he's gonna exaggerate. He's going to make things look more compelling than they are, right? yeah He's gonna make the other guys look that much worse, you know, because again, he's the one telling the story and I was like, ah that's actually a pretty good way to put it because he is legitimately the one telling the story in in the movie, right? sure though it would be over glorified and everything like that and i was like oh that that actually makes the movie kind of better when you think of it in the that and you know from that root from that perspective i guess so yeah not that i usually care much to read reviews or anything like that but apparently i read that one
00:50:34
Speaker
I know, I was stuck with it, damn. It did, because some reviewers make good points and you're like, huh, that's pretty good. But, yeah. I don't know, do you have any other thoughts, I guess, on the historical epics? I think that's all I got. I'm just very excited for Gladiator 2. I am too. We won't be having a show next week, but we'll have it after that with our review of Gladiator 2.
00:51:01
Speaker
So we can enjoy a bit of the ah Thanksgiving week, the American Thanksgiving weekend. Yeah, yeah. And I will i'll actually I'll try to but i'm goingnna try to rewatch the first gladiator because I'm I don't actually remember the last time I saw that. Yeah. Oh, oh definitely. definitely did i I watched it last year when I got back from ah Italy. to First, thanks I was in Rome. Okay. Maybe we'll check it out. So yeah.
00:51:26
Speaker
So it's it's pretty it's pretty fresh in my mind now. It'll probably be really weird for me to be watching this because like I've seen Russell Crowe more recently and I feel like I'll be like, who's this actor? a
00:51:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's crazy to believe that came out 24 years
Denzel Washington in 'Gladiator 2'
00:51:42
Speaker
ago. reg Pretty wild. I wish I would have saw that in theaters. That was too young. Yeah, it was a good movie to see in theaters, James. Let me tell you. but I'm seeing this one, so I'm excited about it. And i I'm most excited to see see how Denzel is because a lot of people are raving about him. Good. Yeah, I mean, I don't remember seeing anything that he's ever in that wasn't good, so. I mean, he's usually good in whatever he's in. When what has he not been good?
00:52:12
Speaker
I mean, he might be a stinker of a movie, but he's pretty good. That's what I mean. Yeah, that's what I mean. It's not his fault. It's the movie's fault. Yeah. Yeah. Never his fault. He will never bring the movie down. He will only elevate a bad movie. He's like, he's like, he's like Nicolas Cage. Yeah. Yeah. Like he shows up. He'll work. Even if it's dog shit. He'll be Denzel, but he'll be the best Denzel. You know, he's always, he leaves it all in the film. All unless Sully Lloyd. He does indeed.
Thanksgiving Break & Future Plans
00:52:40
Speaker
but That's it for today's show. Excited to watch Glitter 2. You enjoy your ah your American holiday, as I will. Just just think of me. enjoy Enjoy your Black Friday as well. Oh, yeah. People get crazy up here for Black Friday now, even though there is no Thanksgiving. this it's Last month is Thanksgiving. so Well, well at least another fun fact for you at least have some turkey for me. i Have some more turkey. I guess. i don't I don't think that even worked, man. It doesn't work, okay. Well, you know what? I can try. I'll try. i'll have I'll have an extra leg. I'll think of you while I'm eating that turkey leg. How about that? That's perfect, buddy. All right. All right. That does it for us. All right. Cheers. Cheers, buddy.