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Ep. 82: What your transgender teen wants you to know
605 Plays1 year ago
Jay Simmons is a student and a transgender teenager. I met Jay at a TEDx talk, where she delivered a – quite frankly – incredible talk aiming to address those misunderstandings. She said, “if you love transgender people, listen to this talk. If you hate transgender people, also listen to this talk.”
Her motivation to do the TEDx talk and to speak with me on the podcast today, comes from a desire to help people understand and to give other transgender people a way to explain it to their families.
6:30: Feeling different as a child, but not knowing what that was about. Jay explains that puberty felt like an out of body experience. She eventually found a website that suggested that this is how some transgender people feel. That didn't resonate - Jay thought she would have known if she was transgender, so it took a while for her to realise. When her voice dropped, that was when she really realised she didn't feel like herself as a boy.
10:25: What is:
- Trans-feminine
- Dissociation
- Depersonalisation
Who is Jay Simmons?
Jay is a 6th form student studying media, drama and computer science. A few years ago, she realised she was transgender and with that, also realised that there are a lot of ways that transgender people are misunderstood.
Click the link to watch Jay's TEDx talk What does transgender mean anyway?
Helen Wills:
Helen wills is a teen mental health podcaster and blogger at Actually Mummy, a resource for midlife parents of teens.
Thank you for listening! Subscribe to the Teenage Kicks podcast to hear new episodes. If you have a suggestion for the podcast please get in touch.
There are already stories from fabulous guests about difficult things that happened to them as teenagers - including losing a parent, becoming a young carer, and being hospitalised with mental health problems - and how they overcame things to move on with their lives.
You can find more from Helen Wills on parenting teenagers on Instagram and Twitter @iamhelenwills.
For information on your data privacy please visit Zencastr's policy page
Please note that Helen Wills is not a medical expert, and nothing in the podcast should be taken as medical advice. If you're worried about yourself or a teenager, please seek support from a medical professional.
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Transcript
Jay's Coming Out Experience
00:00:00
Speaker
I don't know why I had this sort of idea in my mind that my parents would be like very enthusiastic and very supportive and very positive when I came out. Welcome to the Teenage Kicks podcast where we take the fear out of parenting or becoming a teenager.
00:00:26
Speaker
I'm Helen Wills and every week I talk to someone who had a difficult time in the teenage years but came out the other side in a good place and has insight to offer to parents and young people who might be going through the same.
Understanding Transgender Misconceptions
00:00:40
Speaker
This is the last episode in 2023's season 7 and I will be taking a break for Christmas. I'll be back in the new year in 2024, can't believe I'm saying that.
00:00:53
Speaker
This week's episode is a really special one. Jay is a sixth form student who's studying media, drama and computer science. A few years ago she realised she was transgender and with that also realised that there are a lot of ways that transgender people are misunderstood.
00:01:12
Speaker
I met Jay at a TEDx talk where she delivered a, quite frankly, incredible talk aiming to address those misunderstandings. She says, if you love transgender people, listen to this talk. If you hate transgender people, also listen to this talk. Her motivation to do the TEDx talk and to speak with me on the podcast today comes from a desire to help people understand and give other transgender people a way to explain it to their families.
00:01:41
Speaker
Do go and watch Jay's talk on YouTube. It's just out now. I'll put a link in the show notes. But right now, we're going to head into my conversation with Jay.
Overcoming Public Speaking Fears
00:01:50
Speaker
And I'm going to ask her not just for advice for teenagers, but for parents who might be wondering how best to support a teen who's questioning their gender. Jay, welcome to the podcast. Hello. It's so nice to have you here. And I'm sure people have said this to you, and it probably sounds really patronizing, in which case, tell me
00:02:11
Speaker
I think you're just massively brave, probably not just for doing this talk today, but for the talk that you did on that TEDx stage. I stood up there for a minute afterwards and did a little pitch for next year and I was terrified. How did you feel? I actually didn't feel too nervous because
00:02:31
Speaker
I, like you said, I studied drama. I'd actually performed on the same stage as part of a drama club, like if anything with a bigger audience. So it wasn't actually like a new experience for me. I mean, I suppose doing a public speaking as opposed to a drama performance was a new experience, but it wasn't that nerve wracking. Amazing.
00:02:58
Speaker
Gosh, so how long have you been doing drama work? Have you done this like when my kids did it since they were able to walk and I could get them out of the house on a Saturday morning they went to drama classes? Have you been that kind of kid? Yeah, I've definitely been doing it before. I don't even know now. Maybe something like at least five years, maybe something like seven years.
00:03:22
Speaker
Okay. And it's something that you love clearly because you do it so well. Yeah. So, and I also guess that the team at TEDx, because this is a not-for-profit, isn't it? It's amazing what they do, but I guess that they put a lot of time and effort into you all as speakers. Did you have like a really rigorous kind of coaching schedule for it?
00:03:47
Speaker
So, weirdly enough, they're not actually required to give you any public speaking practice. Oh! But obviously the organizers at TEDx and Allmans were very good, and they scheduled us, like, sessions with... there was one with a professional voice coach, actually, which was really helpful, and they appeared before this
00:04:10
Speaker
event itself and made us do a vocal warm-up, which was quite nice. But then they also had like exercises where they focused on the content of our speech and the months we got the content down, how we were going to deliver it. And I felt like those workshops were just really useful in not only developing my public speaking skills, but also just developing confidence in general.
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I could see that some people up there were nervous, but they were doing a really good job. You didn't look nervous at all when you said you probably weren't nervous, which is amazing. But yours was quite dramatised and I loved it. You got probably the biggest laughs out of the whole crowd on the day. I'm glad I did because I don't think the others were trying to be funny. Were you trying to be funny? Yes.
00:05:00
Speaker
I hope so. Otherwise, I've totally just made my first mistake. It was very funny, very entertaining. And hopefully, you're going to tell us a little bit more.
Navigating Gender Identity
00:05:11
Speaker
You were trying to let us know what it's like to be transgender in your body. And that really came across brilliantly. And with so much humor, it's kind of a nice way to tackle it and sort of bring people into a glimpse of what your world is like.
00:05:31
Speaker
Jay, I'm gonna ask you, as I do with everyone on this podcast, whatever they're here to talk about, to tell me about your, well, teenage years, but I guess you're still in your teenage years, so that's pretty recent. So maybe tell us a little bit about growing up, what your childhood was like and moving into teenage years, and then when you started to wonder about your own gender and identity.
00:05:58
Speaker
Ooh, okay, so I guess, growing up... I don't know, there's a lot for me to cover. But yeah, I always, I guess... I really don't want to say I had this feeling like I was different to other kids because that just sounds like the most pretentious thing and I feel like everyone has that.
00:06:26
Speaker
But I suppose deep down, I sort of did feel like there was something like off or something different about me because I didn't quite feel like the other boys, but at the same time, I didn't quite feel like the other girls. But I suppose for most of my childhood, that didn't really affect me. I didn't really think about it, see it as an issue because
00:06:53
Speaker
When you're young, I suppose it makes less difference. It's only really when you go through puberty that you start to notice the changes in your body and you start to feel like something's wrong. And I remember when that started for me, it sort of felt like I was having an out of body experience. You know, like I looked down and I didn't really recognize my body as me. And that was a really weird experience.
00:07:23
Speaker
especially because when I tried to look it up online, I didn't find anything. So that was a bit scary. And then I suppose the thing that sort of got me to start questioning was eventually I did come across a site that said, this is what some transgender people experience. And I was sort of in this weird position where
00:07:49
Speaker
At that point, I had never considered the fact that I was transgender. I only knew that I had this strange feeling of disconnect from my body. And I thought, well, I don't think I am transgender, because I've never felt like that. And I feel like if I was trans, I would know and I would be way more feminine. But I thought I might as well, at the very least, look into it.
00:08:18
Speaker
consider it. And then I guess the more that I sort of considered it, the more that I realized that actually it sort of could be me. And I think one of the main things that sort of got me to start questioning was when my voice broke. That really didn't sound like me. I really didn't like the way that it sounded. And I felt uncomfortable talking
00:08:48
Speaker
with it for long periods of time. I even changed my voice, did accents to try and help me cope with it better. But once I learned that you could change your voice through sort of training it, I started looking into that. And I suppose I watched some videos online and I practiced sort of speaking in a more feminine voice and I realized, oh,
00:09:18
Speaker
that feels better to me and I suppose that was probably that moment was was where it first sort of clicked I had sort of been postponing the facts that I might be transgender for a while because I didn't really want to get into it but once I sort of actually started trying to use a more feminine voice then I was like oh and that's when I properly started to question and
00:09:46
Speaker
It's sort of very confusing when you do actually start to question your agenda because you sort of doubt everything you think you know about yourself. I've since learned a lot more about myself and it can take a while also to sort of figure out what label you want. A lot of trans people might go between different labels. That's not necessarily because they're changing their gender.
00:10:13
Speaker
It's just because they're figuring it out, I guess. Um, so I remember I actually went through the label. I went with the label of trans feminine, which is sort of like feminine, but not necessarily female because I found that easier to accept.
00:10:35
Speaker
And then eventually I did settle for the label female, except even now that still feels very weird for me to say, because obviously there's this whole idea of what male and females should look like. And it's kind of hard for me to accept even after doing a talk about being transgender. So I suppose that's sort of how it felt questioning and realizing.
00:11:05
Speaker
Oh, I've got so many questions. Oh gosh, where to start? What were you Googling? As you were saying that you were Googling things because you weren't feeling quite right about your body going through puberty, what actually were you asking for answers on?
00:11:24
Speaker
Um, well, people can experience being transgender in different ways, but the way that I experienced it was a disconnect from my body. And I looked up what that was and it's called dissociation and you can get into it. And what I experienced is the personalization where you feel like your body isn't yours, but you can also experience the realization, which is where you feel like the world isn't real.
00:11:50
Speaker
Um, I looked it up and basically most of the stuff that came up said that you, you have a personality disorder or something. And I was more willing to accept that than the fact that I was trans. Um, and I suppose, yeah, I suppose that was probably what I looked up. I.
00:12:15
Speaker
Remember I also spent a lot of time on online trans communities because they made me feel better about myself, I guess. Do you think it felt like they knew you, they could see you? Yeah, but especially in a period of questioning and feeling very confused, it felt like something that I just knew felt like me.
00:12:43
Speaker
Okay. Which is kind of important in that confusing time. Yeah. The way you describe dissociating from your body, that sounds really scary. Were you scared? Um, so as a child, I
00:12:58
Speaker
I suppose if you think about it, it's based on the difference in what my brain thinks my body is versus what my body physically is in real life. And I suppose when you're younger, there's less of a difference. But when you go through puberty and your body starts growing, then obviously the difference gets bigger. So when there was less difference, I couldn't really tell. It probably wasn't really a thing. But as I've grown older, I sort of
00:13:24
Speaker
have experienced this for years and it's been noticeable for years and it is kind of weird to me but at the same time I don't sort of freak out about it or anything because I know there's nothing I can do. I know that there was a while where I sort of didn't know why it happened but I knew that there was nothing that I could do and it's just sort of
00:13:51
Speaker
feels normal I guess I don't genuinely don't really know what the feeling is like of looking down and seeing your own body or looking in the mirror and recognizing that person that you have and it does feel like there is part of the essential experience of living that I'm
00:14:16
Speaker
missing out on because I don't experience this, but I try not to think about it because there's nothing that I can really do. Wow. I can't imagine how that feels. I can't get my head around it, which I suppose is to be expected because I don't understand what it's like to be transgender. All I can do is ask questions and believe what transgender people tell me. So that's, you know, thank you again.
00:14:44
Speaker
for for agreeing to talk to me about it today it sounds well i don't want to keep saying it sounds scary to me it sounds scary but knowing this about yourself and once you've found the the group of people that you could talk to who who get it i guess there's some there's definitely something about being around other people who who are dealing with similar stuff who really get it
Parental Reactions and Support
00:15:13
Speaker
that that
00:15:15
Speaker
I mean, I know this for a different reason, but for me, being with those people who get it feels like coming home. Do you get any sense of belonging from people who understand it the way you do? Absolutely, yeah. And what I find is also kind of weird is how even within the trans community, everyone is different.
00:15:40
Speaker
And everyone experiences being transgender in different ways. So I'm talking about dissociating, detaching myself in my body. And that's something that some people experience, but a lot of people experience it in other ways. And I suppose it's kind of nice to feel like even though other people may experience it in different ways, essentially we're still experiencing the same thing. And that feels quite nice.
00:16:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I mean it must otherwise feel quite isolating. Did you feel lonely when you first started to realise what was happening for you? When I first started to realise that I was transgender? Yes. I suppose I wasn't lonely because I suppose you can still find communities online and I did. But maybe if I didn't do that then I would have felt lonely.
00:16:36
Speaker
So I want to just ask you, once you knew this, once you knew you were transgender, once you were starting to get your head around it yourself, and I appreciate that that may not even be a good way to say this because I don't even know if you have got your head around it. Do you ever, actually I'm going to change my question. Have you got your head around being transgender? Do you think you ever do?
00:17:03
Speaker
It's really weird because I suppose I always thought that I would accept it at some point, and I thought that it may take a month or it may take a year, but I would accept the fact that I'm transgender and the fact that the label female no longer felt weird to me.
00:17:26
Speaker
But it's still, even about three years after realizing it still feels weird, it still feels a little wrong, and I still don't really feel like a girl, and don't really feel fully like myself. And I think I'll only properly accept it when I look like myself, when I start to actually transition.
00:17:55
Speaker
So it's a hard place to be. I mean, it's weird because sometimes I also, occasionally I do feel very accepting of myself and very like myself, but it's sort of a strange journey, but I don't think maybe I'll ever fully accept it. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah. I'm...
00:18:23
Speaker
Yeah, thank you, because you're being really honest. Yeah, I had another question in my head and it's gone, but it will come back to me. When did, I mean, so obviously your family knows that you're transgender and are supportive. When did you, when and how did you decide you were able to talk to your family about this?
00:18:50
Speaker
I was questioning for about three months at that time before I started to tell them. And even then I hadn't quite settled on the label female. I was still using different label at that point. So I came out to them as like trans feminine, I guess, not as like a trans girl. And
00:19:16
Speaker
I guess the reason that I came out was because I just was, as much as I said I found communities online and I did, I was still kind of going through this thing alone. I hadn't really told anyone about it. And I thought that just by saying it to someone, especially my family, would help.
00:19:43
Speaker
and would help me understand myself and help it be less confusing for me. And did it help or was it difficult? It was kind of unexpected the way that it happened. I suppose I sort of had this idea in my mind that when I came out it would be this big thing because sometimes it's presented as a big thing, especially like when teenagers come out to each other.
00:20:11
Speaker
they're all sort of very supportive and they're all sort of very like, oh my God, I'm so happy that you told me. Be yourself. I'm so happy that you, you know, found out who you are and we support you every step of the way. And my family was kind of shocked and confused when I came out to them. And I suppose I wasn't hoping for that reaction, but maybe
00:20:40
Speaker
It was kind of unrealistic to expect them to be super supportive because it would shock and confuse them. So I suppose in the immediate effect of coming out, I was a little disappointed. But I guess it has been helpful because, you know, they have since been gendering me correctly and trying to find ways to support me.
00:21:09
Speaker
Well, they love you, so they're going to do whatever it takes to support you, I guess. But I think it's a good point to stop and just bear in mind parents, because this is a podcast that is mostly listened to by parents, although I do sometimes get feedback from young people who've come across an episode. And I think that might be the case with this one. What would you say to any parent who might be listening
00:21:39
Speaker
for whose child this might be happening to, even if their child... Actually, there's two questions here. What would you say to parents when their child comes to them and says that they're transgender? What advice would you give those parents? I would say, be supportive.
00:22:07
Speaker
because I don't know why I had this sort of idea in my mind that my parents would be like very enthusiastic and very supportive and very positive when I came out, because maybe that's sort of what friends have been like, or maybe that's because it's presented like that in the media sometimes. But I think actually, especially when it's expected, that can be very helpful. And
00:22:33
Speaker
very needed if someone is to come out to you. So sort of the parents, I guess, it's totally reasonable for you to feel confused and shocked when your child does come out to you as transgender. But at the very least, you know, immediately just try and be as positive as you can. And
00:22:58
Speaker
appreciate the fact that actually them choosing to come out to you is a big deal for them. It would have taken them, you know, weeks to find the right time to say it. And they've probably been thinking about what words they're going to use and how they're going to say it. And it's a really big deal. And I think it should really be that moment. You know, you shouldn't
00:23:25
Speaker
definitely don't, if someone comes out to you, definitely don't try and make this about you or think about what this means for you. Just think about them in that moment. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Have you got anything reassuring you can say to parents? Because I think most parents would try to make it about their child and not about them, but I think when they make it about them, there's probably fear.
00:23:53
Speaker
kicking in because they don't know what to expect for their child in the long term and in the future and they know that it's not going to be the easiest of rides shall we say. Is there anything you can say to reassure them? I appreciate you're 18 so you're only a few years into this journey so it's not like you've got the benefit of the last 40 years of hindsight to say it's all going to be fine and your child's going to be happy and
00:24:23
Speaker
don't worry, but what would you say to help them process? I'd say that your child is always going to be happier being themselves. And I, as he said, I'm really young. I have not got any experience in the rest of the journey and what it's like actually transitioning and in the wider world, how accepting people are, but I know that it will be worth it to be myself. And
00:24:53
Speaker
to live like myself and look like myself. And even if it means going out of my way to do it in ways that other people may not, I still feel like it brings you an amount of happiness that is essential and that you cannot replace.
Living Authentically Beyond Labels
00:25:09
Speaker
And that, you know, if anything else we should just be able to be ourselves. Yeah.
00:25:19
Speaker
I mean, we talk about that quite a bit on the podcast. Being authentic and showing up in life as who you actually are is in the long run going to make you happiest rather than trying to conform to any kind of labels. And actually, before I ask my second question, I've remembered my old question, which was,
00:25:41
Speaker
I'm just wondering if you not wanting to label yourself female for a period of time, is that something to do with labels in general? Because I know my kids talk to me about different genders and they get quite cross.
00:25:57
Speaker
about anyone who doesn't understand non-binary, but they also say that people who are non-binary are getting quite cross that that's becoming yet another gender label. And so I think it's to do with pronouns. I was querying why they thought somebody had chosen some pronouns that I'd never heard before.
00:26:21
Speaker
And I was I was quite used to they and them, but this person had chosen something completely different. And I was just curious. And I said to my kids, what do you think is what I should have done is ask that person why they chose those pronouns. And that person would have been able to say none of your business or explain it to me, whatever, whatever they preferred. But my kids will say there's too many labels and people are beginning to feel that
00:26:50
Speaker
labels are unnecessary? How do you feel about labels? It's a really good question. And I think the reason that I initially didn't come out as female and didn't accept the label of female is because
00:27:06
Speaker
it just felt too restrictive. And especially when it's a big label like female, there's a lot of stereotypes about that and a lot of ideas of what that should look like. So it feels naturally hard to fit into that label and accept that, especially when you're questioning, you sort of question every single part of your identity. And if you try and say, this is who I am, this label is who I am,
00:27:36
Speaker
you're never gonna actually feel like that's who you are, because no one's whole identity can be described in any label. But I think, yeah, the reason why it's initially scary is because of the label, because of all of the associations with it, and not necessarily because I didn't feel female enough, but I guess even now I'm saying that I don't like the label female, I think that's just because it is a label.
00:28:05
Speaker
No matter what label we use, no matter if it's the right or wrong label, it's never going to feel like you because you define the label. The label does not define you. People cannot be put into like little, I hate how this is such an overused phrase, but people cannot be put into like little boxes. Um, or even their gender. I still feel like just because my gender is female.
00:28:33
Speaker
it's going to be different to your gender, which is also female. And we're both going to express that in different ways. And we're both going to interpret it to ourselves in different ways. And I suppose if you really think about that, then, you know, there is no real way of explaining it to anyone else or labeling it. And I do definitely think that actually we shouldn't try and focus on finding the right label. We should just sort of try and focus on
00:29:03
Speaker
being ourselves. Yeah, I mean this is a completely different thing but as I'm listening to you speak I'm thinking about introverts versus extroverts and if you decide that actually you identify more as an introvert
00:29:19
Speaker
that does that mean that you can't have extroverted behavior at certain events and in certain situations? So labels, labels in general, are not particularly useful, are they? And they are all designed to compartmentalize sections of the population. Yeah, no, I agree. Because like I say, I sort of identify with a label female. But that doesn't necessarily mean that every single part of my identity or every part of my
00:29:48
Speaker
gender is feminine. You know, I'm masculine in some ways as well. And I suppose I need to accept that and girls can also be masculine and men can be feminine and yeah, anything like that. So it doesn't necessarily mean anything. Yeah, no, I really like that. And actually, the more we can individually not put ourselves in a box irrespective of what society does to us and cultural expectation does to us, the happier we'll all be.
00:30:18
Speaker
My other question around parents was what you would say to a parent who is wondering if their child might be questioning either their sexuality or their gender but hasn't been able to talk to them about it or express it to anyone else or maybe doesn't even know it's just something that the parents of
00:30:45
Speaker
kind of got an inkling of and are wondering about, would you have any advice for them? I would say, wait for your child to tell you, because if they are questioning their gender or their sexuality, they would want to tell you themselves, and they would want to do it in the way and at the time that they feel is right for them, and
00:31:14
Speaker
that's important to them and i feel like you can't really take that away um and if someone does come out to you as gay or transgender or something like that and you've already had a suspicion don't tell them that i mean you can i mean you can but it still should be a big thing for them if when they do decide to come out
00:31:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. So someone, someone goes to their parent and says, I'm transgender. And the parent says, Oh, I did wonder. That sort of takes the wind out of your sails, I guess, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, that would kind of take away from it being a big deal. Because the person coming out is, is meant to be a big deal. But then
00:32:09
Speaker
Okay, I'm going to interrupt you because I'm interested in that. So I think a lot of parents would think I need to normalize this for my child. I need to not make them feel like it's a big deal. I need to let them know that I'm cool with this. This is okay. I don't want to freak them out with my reaction. So I can imagine a lot of parents trying to not make light of it, but just take it in their stride and not
00:32:36
Speaker
react in a big way but what you're saying seems to be it is a big deal and we should allow it to be a big deal as parents. Well that is an interesting one and I suppose that's kind of how my parents felt as well they sort of felt oh okay it's it's not a big deal we sort of understand it well they didn't really understand but they sort of accepted it um but I suppose it's about the fact that
00:33:07
Speaker
the automatic assumption is that you're straight and you're not transgender or anything so it's it's really about making sure other people know who you are and i think that even if they're accepting of it and even if
00:33:28
Speaker
You know, it's, it's no big deal and they're not going to see you in any different way or treat you in any different way. It's still sort of important that you actually say it to them. Um, which is kind of odd because I guess with me, I also, you know, feel the need to come out to my parents about my sexuality as well. Um, even though.
00:33:54
Speaker
I actually haven't done this yet, but even though I'm sure they already know what it is, and I don't necessarily probably don't even need to say it, I still feel like I should say it and I should explicitly say what it is just to make sure that they know and they don't
00:34:15
Speaker
assume anything else about me and that they actually understand who I am. And I realise that's all kind of stupid because it shouldn't have to be a thing if it's normalised and if they're accepting, but I think it is definitely something that matters to people, especially when it feels like a weight that you have, pretending that you're someone you're not because people assume you are.
00:34:45
Speaker
Hmm. Well, I guess it's part and parcel of showing up as who you really are authentically in the world is that people have to know about it. Hmm. Yeah. Okay. All right. So you mentioned
School Experience and Community Support
00:35:02
Speaker
telling your friends, coming out to your friends, and that they've been really supportive. I've not been in school for a long while. I've only soaked up what's going on in school via the little bits that my kids choose to tell me and the letters that come home. But my perception is that schools are much more supportive and smart at being inclusive and
00:35:31
Speaker
supporting and helping people who want to live authentically, who want to come out as transgender or gay or non-binary, well, non-binary is transgender, isn't it? I'm getting it all wrong. I did say at the beginning, if I get it wrong, Jay, you correct me, because that's how people learn, because I
00:35:54
Speaker
don't know. But my understanding is that schools are much, much better than they used to be and that kids as a consequence are much less likely to stigmatise being transgender. Is that true?
00:36:13
Speaker
I mean, I can't speak for every school, but certainly in my experience, yes, it is true. I did decide to come out as transgender in school. And that meant wearing a skirt to school. So I suppose it was sort of a thing that everybody could notice. And no one really said anything. I didn't get any comments or anything. So that was really nice as the teachers
00:36:41
Speaker
all didn't didn't even question it didn't even doubt they were just told okay use this name for this person and these pronouns and then they just did it they didn't even go like hmm are they transgender that doesn't make sense they just said that i feel is is really important and it just sort of happened so
00:37:06
Speaker
quickly and without anyone saying anything, which I was kind of surprised by. I was just thinking, were you disappointed that no one said anything? A little, yeah. We were all in a bit of fuss. So were you really nervous about that day going into school in a skirt? Were you building up to that and nervous about it and scared to go in?
00:37:35
Speaker
Or were you just like, did you use your drama confidence and skills and just get in there and go, this is me. And that's how it's going to be. Um, I suppose it was a lot more underwhelming than that because I sort of worked it out to be the sort of big deal. I thought it was going to be a big deal. I thought people were going to make comments about it. And I thought people were going to ask questions and maybe they would have asked questions if they, you know, but they were too embarrassed or felt like they couldn't ask them.
00:38:06
Speaker
But genuinely, I turned up in a skirt. I didn't even really say anything. And people acted as if nothing had happened. No one said anything. It was kind of real. Maybe that's because they probably had a suspicion beforehand.
00:38:32
Speaker
It was sort of, and maybe this is the way that it's going to be. It was just very normal. It was just nothing had actually changed. Yeah. Like a non-event. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. I don't know whether I would want it to be an event and I'd want there to be some
00:38:54
Speaker
noticeable change and ceremony around it or whether I just, I guess if it's you showing up as your authentic self, you just want to show up as your authentic self and have life carry on, right? Yeah, although like I said, it was a little bit disappointing. I maybe would have wanted some people to have a more positive reaction, because maybe that's what I was expecting. I was maybe expecting, you know, some people to go
00:39:19
Speaker
Oh my God, I didn't know that you were transgender. Well, I'm so happy that you feel the confidence to be yourself. But maybe that was just me expecting something unrealistic because, you know, why, why would someone say that if it's something that's kind of normal? Hmm. And you want to be accepted and people are accepting. Yeah. It makes sense.
00:39:43
Speaker
Jay, have you got any other things that you think the world should know about transgender people before we round up the conversation today? That's a good point.
00:39:58
Speaker
I suppose, and this is especially a message to parents, and I know I've already kind of said this, but this is one thing that was going to be my talk, but I cut it for time. But the trans community can probably seem like a really confident community. I used to think, well, I'm not trans because
00:40:17
Speaker
all the trans people seem really competent in the fact that they're trans and they seem to you know know maybe they're born with the knowledge that they're trans. Maybe this is such a strong feeling for them but it is confusing and hard to accept and parents find it confusing and hard to accept
00:40:38
Speaker
but so do the people experiencing it for themselves. And if anything, they find it even more confusing and even more hard to accept. And I suppose in a way, we're kind of on the same page because it's...
00:41:00
Speaker
Maybe there's an assumption that, you know, just because someone's going through something, they're fully understanding of it and fully accepting of it themselves. That's not the case. In fact, that's never the case. Every single trans person or just LGBT plus person does go through questioning and denial and
00:41:24
Speaker
trouble accepting it even for me, which doesn't make sense because I've grown up in a pretty supportive environment. But I suppose it's totally okay. It's totally, totally okay if you have that same feeling of finding it weird and confusing and hard to accept because so do we. And I suppose another point is that actually
00:41:49
Speaker
I don't really care if someone misgenders me correctly. I know there's a lot of people feeling like it's the most important thing that you use the correct name and pronouns all of the time, but I genuinely don't care if someone misgenders me. All I do care about is that you just try and correct yourself, I guess.
00:42:12
Speaker
Yeah. And you said that so beautifully in your talk, which I'm going to reference again now.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:42:17
Speaker
And when you've finished listening to this podcast, those of you that are listening or watching, go click that link and watch Jay's talk. Jay, thank you so much again for sharing all of this with me. It's been a huge privilege to talk with you. Well, thank you for having me on this show podcast. I don't know what you call it.
00:42:34
Speaker
Yeah, you can call it a show. Let's call it a show. I'm happy with that. Thank you so much for listening. I really do appreciate it. Thank you too to everyone who's already rated and reviewed the podcast. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Amazon, it would mean the world to me if you could leave a review. It really helps get the word out, as well as making me very happy to read what you have to say.
00:42:57
Speaker
If this episode strikes a chord for you, please share it with anyone else you know who might be in the same boat and hit subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. If you have a story or suggestion for something you'd like to see covered on the podcast, you can email me at Teenage Kicks Podcast at gmail.com or message me on Instagram. I am Helen Woods. I love hearing from all my listeners. It really makes a difference to me on this journey.
00:43:27
Speaker
See you next week when I'll be chatting to another brilliant guest about the highs and lows of parenting teams. Bye for now.