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A Family Affair: Inside a High Value Relationship
34 Plays3 years ago
The Queens sit down with a very special family guest to discuss how to have a high value relationship, from courtship to marriage.
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Co-host Update
00:00:05
Speaker
What's up queens?
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female only podcast on the internet.
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm Ro.
00:00:12
Speaker
And I'm Savannah.
00:00:14
Speaker
And before we get to the episode today, I just wanted to let everybody know just a brief update on our Buttercup, aka Lilith.
00:00:21
Speaker
So obviously she was on the episode a few weeks ago, but she is making a phased return to the podcast.
00:00:27
Speaker
So we hope that she'll be back with us full time soon.
00:00:30
Speaker
She hasn't left the podcast yet.
00:00:31
Speaker
But she will be making appearances from time to time until she's ready to come back full time.
00:00:36
Speaker
So we still miss our buttercup, but she's also still with us as well.
00:00:40
Speaker
And she's still recovering.
00:00:42
Speaker
And we send her all our love and well wishes to Lilith.
Special Guest Introduction: Lara's Perspective on FDS
00:00:45
Speaker
In current events and current news, we have a very, very special guest.
00:00:50
Speaker
Today, we have a very, very special guest.
00:00:52
Speaker
Probably no tea, no shade to our previous esteemed guest.
00:00:56
Speaker
This might be my favorite guest to date.
00:00:59
Speaker
And it is my own sister.
00:01:03
Speaker
It's my sister, Lara.
00:01:04
Speaker
Say hello, Lara.
00:01:06
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:01:07
Speaker
I've always, always wanted to say that.
00:01:09
Speaker
So yeah, what's up, queens?
00:01:12
Speaker
I'm so excited to be here.
00:01:14
Speaker
So this isn't just like, just rank nepotism.
00:01:17
Speaker
I'm not just having her just for balance.
00:01:18
Speaker
This is the Nepo Baby podcast.
00:01:25
Speaker
She's got friends in high places.
00:01:26
Speaker
She's very connected.
00:01:28
Speaker
That's why she's here.
Lara's Early Dating Experiences and FDS Relevance
00:01:29
Speaker
So one of the things that we wanted to do here at FDS was to get the perspective of somebody who has been through the whole FDS journey, so to speak.
00:01:37
Speaker
So all the way from dating and courtship, all the way up to marriage and having a child, because, you know, whilst we understand not everybody who listens to FDS,
00:01:44
Speaker
FDS is after, you know, marriage and children.
00:01:47
Speaker
A lot of our listeners are.
00:01:48
Speaker
So this is why I brought my older sister, Lara, onto the show, because I've been fortunate enough to witness her entire, I guess, like your dating and relationship journey from when I was very, very young.
00:01:59
Speaker
And a lot of that, it was almost FDS before I knew
Learning Financial Stability in Relationships
00:02:02
Speaker
FDS was a thing.
00:02:02
Speaker
So I came to FDS in 2020 or so, and I was observing like my sister dating from the time I was about 13 or 14 when I was really, really young.
00:02:11
Speaker
So I thought it'd be really interesting to get her
00:02:14
Speaker
perspective on dating and marriage and hope that it helps some of you out there especially when it comes to conceptualizing what a high value relationship all the way up into marriage and like having children actually looks like as well no pressure
00:02:30
Speaker
to start with though tell us about your dating so how you navigated dating and where you sort of you know got your dating advice from because obviously we are from a Nigerian background a lot of the dating advice is pick me so to speak quite misogynistic quite useless I mean to women anyway so tell us a bit about that and your experiences around navigating dating okay so I would say that I started off
00:02:58
Speaker
Pretty much a pick me.
00:02:59
Speaker
Patriarchy means that I just feel like a lot of women are just born, young girls are just sort of born into this idea that, you know, he wasn't a pick me, let's be real.
Refining Relationship Expectations
00:03:09
Speaker
And I do give credit to myself in that I wasn't as far gone as some other people.
00:03:13
Speaker
But yeah, I did sort of have that sort of, you know, love conquers all, money doesn't matter.
00:03:20
Speaker
And very quickly found out that, yeah, love doesn't quite conquer all and, yeah, money does matter.
00:03:27
Speaker
But, yeah, like, so I've dated all kinds of different men, different ethnicities, different, I suppose, economic capabilities, different religions, even that was quite interesting.
00:03:37
Speaker
And I guess as I got older, I found...
00:03:40
Speaker
found what I was taught about relationships.
00:03:43
Speaker
There was a huge conflict there because as I was getting older and dating different men, I found myself dating like less of the kind of guy that I was expected to date or encouraged to date and found that actually some of the men that I was told perhaps aren't so great
00:03:58
Speaker
They had fine qualities about them.
00:04:00
Speaker
And actually it was kind of taking a bit from one guy and another bit from another guy and just building a profile that was ended up being almost the complete opposite of what I thought I knew was the right kind of guy.
00:04:12
Speaker
So almost like this anti-Disney, anti-Disney Prince that was a bit more grounded in reality and actually could
Criteria and Sub-criteria for a Partner
00:04:18
Speaker
deliver for me.
00:04:18
Speaker
And actually what I found was that I didn't realize how much,
00:04:23
Speaker
how little is expected of a guy like you go into a relationship when you're younger and you don't think about what a guy does for you in terms of what they the expectations you have of them and how damaging that is to being in relationships so yeah i suppose i very much refined what i wanted as i went along and started to build a criteria and even within that those criteria started to then build almost like sub criteria and that's kind of how i navigated that until i until i met my now husband
00:04:51
Speaker
So like a funnel, right?
00:04:52
Speaker
Like you start with your big needs and things that are deal breakers and then narrow it down to what more specific things.
Societal Pressures and Relationship Realizations
00:04:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:05:00
Speaker
Like an example was like, okay, let's talk about money.
00:05:02
Speaker
Like before, you know, the whole like, oh, money doesn't matter.
00:05:05
Speaker
Like, you know.
00:05:06
Speaker
And then you realise, no, it does.
00:05:09
Speaker
And then so I thought, so I need to date a guy who's got it.
00:05:12
Speaker
And then I realised, actually, it's not actually how much a guy has, because I dated guys who had loads of money and guys who had very little money.
00:05:19
Speaker
It was actually, for me personally, it was their relationship with money that was more important to me and how they spent it as opposed to how much they had or how little they had.
00:05:29
Speaker
So it's that constant refining that
00:05:31
Speaker
You know, when I was in relationships, I would always take, because I'm quite a reflective person, I'd always take time to unpick the discomfort that I felt sometimes that I didn't always understand.
00:05:40
Speaker
And then I studied the kind of degree that I studied at university and I picked and challenged absolutely everything.
00:05:46
Speaker
And that extended to my relationships as well.
00:05:48
Speaker
And then very quickly you realise actually this whole relationship game, even as far as marriage, a lot of it doesn't work to the benefit of women at all.
00:05:55
Speaker
They're actually very, apart from companionship and the hope of, you know, being in a loving and deep, a loving and meaningful relationship, there aren't that many other benefits to these things for women.
00:06:06
Speaker
So it's like, okay, right.
00:06:07
Speaker
So how can I go about making this work?
00:06:09
Speaker
Because it's something that I want, but in a way that actually serves me.
00:06:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:13
Speaker
And that's when dating got quite colorful for me.
00:06:15
Speaker
I think in terms of the finance point, I do think that's one of the good things about the rare good things about Nigerian culture and general dating advice is that if you're broke, you will get roasted.
00:06:26
Speaker
All throughout Nollywood, you know those storylines where the man had no money and he was treated like shit for the whole film until he got money at the end.
00:06:34
Speaker
Yeah!
00:06:36
Speaker
And it was like, no romance without finance.
00:06:39
Speaker
That was literally like
Critique of Traditional Relationship Expectations
00:06:41
Speaker
most, that was like most like Nollywood films.
00:06:44
Speaker
That was the plot line for so many.
00:06:46
Speaker
So on the finance thing, I do actually sort of, I sort of hear that, but in terms of, you know, dating becoming colorful, when you sort of begun to formulate that profile and have your boundaries and standards, how did that play out in, you know, when you actually came to date these men and you started setting those boundaries and standards?
00:07:03
Speaker
I would say, I almost went to the extreme.
00:07:05
Speaker
I just got to a point where I really enjoyed like firing guys.
00:07:11
Speaker
You just got to feel that in your gut, right?
00:07:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:14
Speaker
When you get to the point where you're generally FDS from like your mind, body and spirit, like it actually feels good to just be like, yeah, no, like you just feel truly powerful.
00:07:24
Speaker
Just get the scissors.
00:07:25
Speaker
Shing, shing, shing, shing.
00:07:28
Speaker
Literally.
00:07:29
Speaker
And then just sometimes like witnessing the shock, like of some of these guys who were like, you're actually going to end this over that.
00:07:34
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, because I warned you once and you did it again.
00:07:37
Speaker
So no.
00:07:39
Speaker
And actually realizing there's so much power in actually walking away and understanding.
00:07:43
Speaker
And even to this day, like I would say in terms of, I suppose we'll talk about the whole marriage stuff later, but I think for me and I think for women, like the best relationships are the ones that you know that you can leave.
00:07:54
Speaker
Like if you feel stuck or you're afraid to leave, chances are you're being treated like absolute, like cow pat.
00:08:01
Speaker
But actually, if you know that you can leave, then,
00:08:03
Speaker
then you're staying because you want to and you're getting what you need from the relationship as opposed to just staying because you're afraid to go.
00:08:10
Speaker
Like, does that make sense?
00:08:12
Speaker
Yeah, so much of our cultural pressure as women has been put upon us through fear, right?
00:08:18
Speaker
The idea that like, oh, you're going to die alone.
00:08:21
Speaker
And then I think a marked difference between Nigerian culture versus like American culture is there's a romanticization built around struggle love, hashtag struggle love, where you're supposed to suffer with men when they're broke, which I think is completely different from Nigerian culture.
00:08:39
Speaker
Like you guys said that like there's an
00:08:41
Speaker
expectation of no romance without finance gwen goffrey yeah but that said the minute you get married then all of that stuff applies which i think i just find so dangerous and it makes me really angry there's this idea that you know once you're in a relationship with someone once you're engaged to them once you're committed to them once you imagine whatever that looks like for you then no matter what happens yeah you're in you're locked in now
00:09:07
Speaker
And it's not even the kind of, there's one thing to try and make a relationship work and do what is required to sort of get through these hard times.
Cultural Narratives and Women's Suffering
00:09:14
Speaker
But then it's just this expectation for you to just find a way of coping with the hell.
00:09:17
Speaker
Like, no, that's not what I signed up for.
00:09:20
Speaker
And this almost this gaslighting into women, into believing that marriage or long-term relationships have to be this like endless tale of suffering and woe.
00:09:29
Speaker
And like at the end of it, when he's old and like, and busted and broken and probably can't get it up anymore, he's now faithful to you.
00:09:39
Speaker
you know and he now cares about you and it's like well the actual fact is he's sick and as a result he can't get it up and he needs someone to look after him and no one wants him and I was so anti that and I used to I have these different memories of going to church and they really do a job on reinforcing this in the church and I just sat there just disagreeing because I used to go to you know the youth part when I was a teenager and
00:10:01
Speaker
And I just, I'd end up getting on the youth leaders nerves because I just kept picking like, hang on, but you know, why does virginity apply only to the woman?
00:10:11
Speaker
You know, why do I have to make sure that why is it my, solely my responsibility to make sure that the home is somewhere where he wants to come back to?
00:10:19
Speaker
Why is that on me?
00:10:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:21
Speaker
And they never have answers, right?
00:10:23
Speaker
Every time you'd ask the question that would be pushing towards a little bit more of equitable treatment, then they wouldn't really have an answer for you because they wouldn't.
00:10:30
Speaker
It's like, oh, it's not really in the Bible.
00:10:32
Speaker
It's like what I would hear repeatedly.
00:10:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:35
Speaker
And I found that, you know, the conversations around sex also, like, you know, I remember being, I was like 14, 14, 15 years.
00:10:42
Speaker
And they were like, masturbation is wrong.
00:10:43
Speaker
Okay.
00:10:44
Speaker
And I was just, you know, I wanted to understand why.
00:10:46
Speaker
Generally open to it.
00:10:47
Speaker
You know, I was young and impressionable and believed it.
00:10:50
Speaker
And they just couldn't tell me.
00:10:52
Speaker
And I was like, but why?
00:10:53
Speaker
Like, you can't say, it's biblical.
00:10:55
Speaker
I was like, okay, but tell me how, why?
00:10:59
Speaker
And then it was kind of, we need to move on.
00:11:00
Speaker
And then someone came and tapped me on the shoulder and was like, you're disrupting the class.
00:11:03
Speaker
It's like, okay.
00:11:05
Speaker
So you're just making it up then.
00:11:07
Speaker
You're just making it up.
00:11:10
Speaker
get a source trust me bro that's the source oh gosh but yeah the church really does a number on i remember when we went to that summer and at this church in london mega church in london where the pastor just went on this like misogynistic rant about women and he tried he like tried oh my gosh it was like he was basically saying how like oh if you're a woman and there's food don't like pile your plate it's not nice if you're eating in public and i'm just like what and i remember everyone apart from his wife is just not
00:11:40
Speaker
really following like what he was getting at or like the spiritual lesson that was coming
Impact of Church Teachings on Women's Expectations
00:11:45
Speaker
out of it.
00:11:45
Speaker
It was just a fully misogynistic rant.
00:11:47
Speaker
And it made us, but we were just pissing ourselves laughing because it was being recorded as well because it was so ridiculous.
00:11:53
Speaker
But actually, you know, this guy had so much influence over the church and you know, what he was saying was basically saying like women and you know, another thing you said was like, if I come to your house, I expect like, you know, the meat and the fish to be in separate dishes.
00:12:07
Speaker
I don't want my meat touching my fish.
00:12:09
Speaker
And I was thinking, what?
00:12:11
Speaker
And it was just purely directed towards women.
00:12:14
Speaker
And kept on picking.
00:12:16
Speaker
Yeah, kept on picking up women.
00:12:16
Speaker
And at one point he was like, oh, we need to clap for the mothers.
00:12:19
Speaker
Everyone, you know, round of applause for the mothers in this church.
00:12:22
Speaker
And there were probably at least a couple thousand people there.
00:12:25
Speaker
And I was like, why?
00:12:26
Speaker
And he said, oh, my child is two.
00:12:27
Speaker
This is the first time that I had to look after him for an afternoon.
00:12:32
Speaker
And it was hell.
00:12:33
Speaker
And it was really, really hard.
00:12:34
Speaker
So I just want to clap on behalf of, you know, my wife and all women, we need to clap for them.
00:12:38
Speaker
I just thought, wow, so you're like a leader of this church.
00:12:41
Speaker
And
00:12:41
Speaker
You've basically said that you haven't looked after your child on your own, who's two, ever, until this one afternoon.
00:12:48
Speaker
And it's only now that you realise the extent of what it takes to raise a kid, even though it's yours.
00:12:54
Speaker
Just giving this impression that it's a woman's responsibility and also not appreciating that responsibility until you did it yourself.
00:13:00
Speaker
Like, really?
00:13:03
Speaker
Are you just not ashamed of yourself?
00:13:06
Speaker
It was just wild.
00:13:07
Speaker
I completely hear you about the church and the sort of messaging that we get.
00:13:10
Speaker
And I've often said, you know, like Ro and I and Lilith, we've discussed this in other podcasts as well, but the church is part of the reason why the pendulum has basically gone from purity culture all the way to
00:13:22
Speaker
to the casual sex posi sleep with anyone there's no consequences it's all fun even though you're not getting any orgasms out of it you know sex culture that we have now it just it's a huge part of the reason and that's because the sex education in church is basically just don't do it
00:13:38
Speaker
And they can't even tell you a point to script as to why and how
Setting Personal Boundaries in Dating
00:13:41
Speaker
you just don't do it.
00:13:41
Speaker
They can't tell you.
00:13:42
Speaker
And also this like kind of like, you know, once you've done it, that's it, you're impure.
00:13:47
Speaker
Like, you're not redeemable.
00:13:49
Speaker
That's it.
00:13:49
Speaker
You're done.
00:13:50
Speaker
Finished.
00:13:51
Speaker
Like, it doesn't matter how much you cared about the person or how many people it was.
00:13:55
Speaker
It's like, you're just now, you're dirty and you're not worthy.
00:13:59
Speaker
And you may as well, you know, jump back in time to Sodom and Gomorrah and just die there.
00:14:03
Speaker
Like, you know?
00:14:04
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:14:05
Speaker
So shifting back to dating then, you know, what would you say were some of the like boundaries that you put in place that perhaps that there may not be like the most obvious ones, so to speak?
00:14:16
Speaker
So for example, most people wouldn't date a guy with a criminal record, I would hope.
00:14:22
Speaker
But like, you know, what were some of the boundaries and, you know, basically standards that you had that were perhaps...
00:14:27
Speaker
you know, really important to you.
00:14:29
Speaker
But on the outside, people will be like, you're just being too picky because a lot of our listeners, they hear that a lot from their friends or you're just being picky.
00:14:35
Speaker
Like it's not a big deal if he watches porn, for example, or you're overreacting or controlling or whatever.
00:14:40
Speaker
So what were some of the boundaries and standards that you put in place that mattered to you that perhaps the wider society were not seen as a big deal?
00:14:48
Speaker
First thing that comes, I guess, comes to mind is like relationships with people around him.
00:14:54
Speaker
Like I was always very curious to know who he spent most of his time with, like how he spent his time.
00:14:59
Speaker
So if he was one of those, like was always online, like MSN was a thing, like I just knew, okay, you're always online.
00:15:05
Speaker
You're probably talking to about a hundred different girls and you're probably bashing away all day to porn.
00:15:09
Speaker
Like, you know, those sorts of things.
00:15:11
Speaker
Or if, like, if I met someone,
00:15:13
Speaker
went on a date and all they could tell me about themselves, okay, what are you interested in?
00:15:17
Speaker
I like football in the pub and going to parties.
00:15:19
Speaker
Like, what?
00:15:20
Speaker
And that's it.
00:15:21
Speaker
Like, I can't get past, you know, all right, like, that's you and, like, another few million people in this country.
00:15:28
Speaker
Why are you?
00:15:28
Speaker
Like, and that to me would tell me that you don't really know yourself.
00:15:32
Speaker
And if you can't tell me that you have any interests or hobbies besides what a typical man might be interested in, you know, I just think you don't know yourself.
00:15:40
Speaker
And I just feel like everything that you do is going to be dictated by what people think you should do.
00:15:45
Speaker
So that for me was really important.
00:15:47
Speaker
I always also like to see a guy who was a bit...
00:15:50
Speaker
You just didn't do what his friends expected him to do.
00:15:53
Speaker
So it was not actually a guy that I dated, but I just found it super, super, I found it super, super attractive when a guy told me one time that he liked a Nissan Micra.
00:16:02
Speaker
And Ro, I don't know if you're familiar with these cars, but they're really, really small cars.
00:16:06
Speaker
Yeah, they're like little hatchbacks often associated with women because like older women because they're so small.
00:16:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:12
Speaker
Older women, like they're so small.
00:16:14
Speaker
And I was just like, and this guy was like a tall athlete, you know, just not the kind of guy that you'd expect, you know, typically when you meet a guy that, yeah, you know, it's typically the kind of guy that was, you know, you'd be like, I want a Range Rover or I want a, you know, Mercedes, Audi, BMW.
00:16:29
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:29
Speaker
Yeah, whatever.
00:16:29
Speaker
Cool.
00:16:30
Speaker
Like who doesn't want that?
00:16:31
Speaker
But just someone who just knows what he wants and isn't afraid to say what he wants.
00:16:35
Speaker
Because for me, I found that secure because it meant that you're going to stand up for me and that you're not just going to do stuff based on what society says that
Developing Dating Standards and Overcoming Low Expectations
00:16:42
Speaker
you should do.
00:16:42
Speaker
Because society doesn't encourage men or doesn't reward men to treat women well.
00:16:47
Speaker
They don't.
00:16:48
Speaker
The easy option is for them not to.
00:16:50
Speaker
So if you're someone who can just go against the grain, me personally, I felt like I had more hope.
00:16:56
Speaker
that you would treat me how I needed to be treated and not make it seem like, you know, that you're like, you know, the boyfriend from heaven, like you've been sent from, you know, you're just some like angel sent to me just because, you know, you remember my birthday or just because you give a shit about my interests, you know?
00:17:12
Speaker
That was probably quite, I'd like to say almost like ahead of your time, especially, you know, we're in the UK.
00:17:18
Speaker
UK is, you know, very much 50-50, quite pick-me culture, quite, you know, it's okay to have a date down at Spoons and he buys you a Diet Coke and you go halves on the bill.
00:17:29
Speaker
Like, it's very much that sort of, you know, culture as well in the UK.
00:17:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:34
Speaker
Yeah, it was.
00:17:34
Speaker
And I remember at the time feeling a bit isolated because I just knew that I felt, you know, at certain points that I was the only kind of, of all the women that I knew, I was the only person who dated how I dated.
00:17:45
Speaker
And so I think something like this, I think would have just, this is why I just think this podcast is just so amazing because I think it can really give people, women, the perspective that they need to have when they're dating and just open their minds because ultimately we're born into this whole Disney prince, princess world.
00:18:01
Speaker
sort of mindset.
00:18:02
Speaker
And it's just, it's just very problematic for us, isn't it?
00:18:05
Speaker
So this is kind of a side note.
00:18:06
Speaker
I was just watching the 30th anniversary of Beauty and the Beast.
00:18:09
Speaker
Did you see that?
00:18:10
Speaker
I don't know if they broadcast it over in the UK, but it's like they did a live action musical intercut with scenes from the movie.
00:18:17
Speaker
And I'm like, this is so much worse than even what I remember as far as like the amount of abuse that like Belle tolerates.
00:18:24
Speaker
And he's a literal beast!
00:18:26
Speaker
Animal!
00:18:27
Speaker
Can you imagine?
00:18:28
Speaker
Would they ever get someone like Henry Cavill in a film, you know, where the woman looks like a troll?
00:18:34
Speaker
Absolutely not.
00:18:35
Speaker
No.
00:18:36
Speaker
No.
00:18:37
Speaker
And I was trying to play something for my daughter and I put on Cinderella and I thought, okay, it's got some silly songs.
00:18:43
Speaker
And from what I remember about the plot, it's not too bad.
00:18:47
Speaker
And then I started watching it and I just felt like I felt sick.
00:18:52
Speaker
just like I cannot believe like this is what it's just they used to tell girls right because I know Beauty and the Beast the original story was written for women who were in arranged marriages to help them like cope with the fact that a lot of times the men they were married to was like a complete dick because he can be and I did not know that oh my god it makes sense and then they Disney fight it and there's so many places where Disney fight
00:19:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:20
Speaker
Like it just gives women a lot of false expectations about how to handle abusive men.
00:19:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:26
Speaker
And I think that's one of the biggest, I think, challenges for like women and like dating and that realization of it's not okay to date a guy who doesn't have his shit
Transitioning from Dating to Marriage
00:19:36
Speaker
together.
00:19:36
Speaker
It's not your responsibility to rescue or save or to just endure like whatever shit he doesn't have going for him.
00:19:43
Speaker
Like,
00:19:44
Speaker
I think if that alone could be addressed, I think that would change the whole dating game entirely.
00:19:50
Speaker
I mean, so then like moving on to, I guess, the beginning of your now marriage, like, you know, what was that like?
00:19:56
Speaker
Because if I think about your husband, I mean, I've probably known him now for over a decade now, but it's like, again, I think, you know, like I said at the top of the episode, it wasn't somebody you perhaps would have gone for in the years before you met.
00:20:10
Speaker
And he, at the time, I remember thinking when I first met him, like, he's very different.
00:20:15
Speaker
It wasn't in a good or a bad way, but it's just, he was very, he was very, very different and we'll come into why in a bit.
00:20:21
Speaker
But like, how did that get started?
00:20:24
Speaker
Okay, I've gone on to like bash like the whole Disney thing.
00:20:27
Speaker
But anytime I say how that started, it sounds like a Disney thing.
00:20:31
Speaker
Just in terms of how I met him, it was kind of, I met him at university and we just started to see each other and just stare intensely at each other.
00:20:38
Speaker
And it was really weird because I was really, I'm really good at eyeing up eye candy and looking away, but I just couldn't with this guy.
00:20:44
Speaker
And I just thought, okay, that was the first time it happened.
00:20:46
Speaker
I was like, okay, right.
00:20:47
Speaker
I'm just like, okay, that was a bit of a slip up.
00:20:48
Speaker
But yeah, I'll never see him again.
00:20:52
Speaker
I just thought I'd never see him again because it was just a guy at randomly at uni.
00:20:59
Speaker
But then I just kept seeing him everywhere and I just couldn't stop intensely staring.
00:21:04
Speaker
Anyway, and neither could he, my I had.
00:21:06
Speaker
Neither could he.
00:21:08
Speaker
Then we started speaking.
00:21:10
Speaker
I think he had a mutual friend of mine.
00:21:12
Speaker
And yeah, I suppose the thing about meeting someone at university is that you're kind of in a similar stage in your life.
00:21:18
Speaker
And you're wanting very similar things.
00:21:20
Speaker
So I guess at that point, a lot of your sort of future values can be very, very aligned.
00:21:26
Speaker
And the courses that we were doing, they didn't clash with each other.
00:21:31
Speaker
I did take an interest in what he studied and what he wanted to do with it, because there were a lot of people at my university who
00:21:36
Speaker
He was doing degrees that I thought, I just don't see a future with that by this time.
00:21:41
Speaker
Like, you know, money and the ability to be able to make money was important.
00:21:45
Speaker
And also how he thought.
00:21:47
Speaker
So, you know, you are right, Savannah, in that
Husband's Evolving Understanding of Gender Dynamics
00:21:50
Speaker
he was very different.
00:21:50
Speaker
And that's what I found so odd.
00:21:52
Speaker
He was very different.
00:21:53
Speaker
Like years before, I just wouldn't have looked at him.
00:21:55
Speaker
I wouldn't have, I don't think I would have dated him.
00:21:58
Speaker
He was perhaps maybe a bit too quiet for my liking.
00:22:01
Speaker
And he just wasn't what I thought.
00:22:03
Speaker
But when I got to know him, it was almost like an onion.
00:22:06
Speaker
Like I was just another layer and he was just, there was so much more underneath.
00:22:10
Speaker
And actually he takes a lot of, I guess, my criteria.
00:22:13
Speaker
So I guess that's how that started.
00:22:15
Speaker
There was work to do.
00:22:17
Speaker
There was work to do in, I suppose it's your values and your belief system.
00:22:21
Speaker
And it became very clear that he had one way of thinking, especially towards the plight of women.
00:22:25
Speaker
He didn't fully understand or it was quite clear that he didn't understand what it was to be a woman.
00:22:31
Speaker
That said, I always thought I could talk to him and tell him anything and he would listen.
00:22:35
Speaker
I might not agree, but he'd listen.
00:22:37
Speaker
And that's all I needed to know, that he would listen to me.
00:22:41
Speaker
And then I just, we went on a bit of a journey.
00:22:43
Speaker
I think being with me helped him realize, gosh, like the kinds of things that I experienced versus him.
00:22:47
Speaker
And I suppose I can talk about that actually a bit more when we talk about the whole, when we moved to sort of talking about marriage.
00:22:52
Speaker
He then witnessed what it's, you know, how differently society treats women to men.
00:22:58
Speaker
And I think over the last few years, it's really challenged him and made him think about what he can do as a man to be better and to create a better environment for women, which I'm just so passionate about.
00:23:08
Speaker
I think Dr. Gail Dines, when we had her on to talk about pornography, she mentioned something similar with her husband when they met in the 1970s.
00:23:17
Speaker
And she basically said that, you know, if you like a guy and he likes you and you decide to begin this journey together, you sort of need to decide upfront how much you're willing to invest in trying to open his eyes or, you know, get him to understand what you're going through.
00:23:33
Speaker
Because for some men, they'll just get it.
00:23:35
Speaker
But I think for a lot of men, it isn't that they don't want to understand it.
00:23:40
Speaker
It's just that they either haven't been exposed to it.
00:23:43
Speaker
And so they can't really fully comprehend it, you know, as well.
00:23:46
Speaker
So, but it also depends on the man's individual characteristics.
00:23:49
Speaker
If he is somebody that is open to learning, that's very, very different to just an outright misogynist, like Andrew Tate misogynist.
00:23:57
Speaker
who just refuses to be open to any sort of dialogue and is actively anti-woman, if that makes sense.
00:24:04
Speaker
Oh, yeah, absolutely.
00:24:06
Speaker
But yeah, so the courtship stage, because when I was saying that your husband is very different, I was referring to the fact he was quiet.
00:24:12
Speaker
And one of the things that we get a lot on Reddit, on the subreddit when it was up and just general questions is, oh, this guy is really quiet.
00:24:20
Speaker
So this is why he doesn't text me back or he doesn't take an initiative for dates because he's just shy.
00:24:25
Speaker
And I remember thinking, this is bollocks because obviously I knew your husband and I used to, I even used to like third wheel on the dates.
00:24:32
Speaker
I feel a bit bad looking back.
00:24:34
Speaker
You were just like third wheel on the dates.
00:24:35
Speaker
But he would plan dates.
00:24:37
Speaker
He would go out of his way.
00:24:39
Speaker
He would like, sometimes he would pay for me if I was there.
00:24:43
Speaker
And this was a guy who people would say
Quiet Partners: Intentional and Dynamic
00:24:45
Speaker
is quiet.
00:24:45
Speaker
So it's not like,
00:24:47
Speaker
It's almost like an excuse that people tend to make for men when they're just like, oh, but he's quiet.
00:24:51
Speaker
That's why it doesn't make any effort.
00:24:53
Speaker
Like being quiet doesn't mean that you lack initiative.
00:24:56
Speaker
No, it doesn't mean that you lack character or that you like, or that means that you're not dynamic or you're not interesting.
00:25:02
Speaker
And I've had to go on a journey with understanding quiet people.
00:25:05
Speaker
And I'm so grateful that I learned that through him because it makes me understand other quiet people better.
00:25:11
Speaker
Being quiet doesn't mean that they're not intentional about you.
00:25:14
Speaker
In fact, I think they are, in actual fact, I think the quieter guys tend to be more demonstrative of their intentions because that's what they have.
00:25:22
Speaker
They might not talk very much.
00:25:24
Speaker
but they can do stuff.
00:25:26
Speaker
So yeah, I just don't think there's any excuse to hide behind when it comes to being intentional with a woman.
00:25:32
Speaker
And I think if a guy's not texting you back or planning dates, and I suppose there's a difference between not knowing what to do, but being willing to go along with suggested things and just to just have a completely like apathetic approach.
Green and Red Flags in Courtship
00:25:45
Speaker
I mean, so what were like the green flags that you noticed and perhaps some of the, I guess, like red flags potentially that you noticed during the courtship phase?
00:25:54
Speaker
Okay, I'll start with the green flags.
00:25:57
Speaker
Like I said, before he was, you know, he listened.
00:26:00
Speaker
I always find it quite difficult to find a guy who would listen to me.
00:26:04
Speaker
And he was very determined and driven to be successful.
00:26:09
Speaker
But for him, being successful was about being the best version of himself and being able to provide for a family, like actually.
00:26:17
Speaker
It wasn't just like a delusional version of success that some men have that want to be like the next Elon Musk when they just haven't got the resource capacity, skill level connections, whatever.
00:26:27
Speaker
Also, they have no planners to like, hey, you want to be Elon Musk?
00:26:31
Speaker
How are you going to get there?
00:26:32
Speaker
And also, when you get there, what are you going to be like?
00:26:34
Speaker
You know, you just want to be the next Wolf of Wall Street, basically.
00:26:37
Speaker
Like those kinds of men that glorify like, you know, the whole Jordan Belfort.
00:26:40
Speaker
I'm just like, nah, get in the bin, please.
00:26:42
Speaker
But yeah, he took an interest in what I was interested in.
00:26:46
Speaker
Like he, in spite of how, I guess, quiet he was and how introverted he is, he made an effort with my friends, which was really important to me.
00:26:54
Speaker
He didn't hide anything, any part of his life.
00:26:57
Speaker
He was, you know, Philly.
Challenges of Long-distance Relationships
00:26:59
Speaker
He was all in to the point where,
00:27:01
Speaker
At one point, he was probably more invested than I was.
00:27:04
Speaker
And I used to call things marriage exclusive.
00:27:06
Speaker
So things I would do that I would refuse to do for him because I wasn't married to him.
00:27:11
Speaker
Because I'm like, that's just not my responsibility.
00:27:12
Speaker
It's not, I'm not asking for the ring.
00:27:14
Speaker
I just don't believe that's my responsibility whilst I'm not married to you.
00:27:18
Speaker
And he used to get really upset because he's like, I'm giving him 100%.
00:27:20
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, that's really nice.
00:27:22
Speaker
But yeah, this is a boundary for me.
00:27:23
Speaker
But yeah, so, you know, he did respect my space.
00:27:26
Speaker
And he's just a pleasure to be around.
00:27:28
Speaker
Like, there's just not one person who's ever, yeah, who doesn't say those things.
00:27:33
Speaker
The red flags for me were, I suppose at the beginning, okay, you don't get what it's like to be a woman.
00:27:38
Speaker
You have no idea.
00:27:40
Speaker
I don't think anyone had really briefed him on like, okay, you get a girlfriend and this is how, this is what romance looks like.
00:27:47
Speaker
I think he tried, but it was very limited and quite stunted.
00:27:51
Speaker
And that at the beginning, in the early stages of a relationship, was really, really important to me.
00:27:55
Speaker
And sometimes that was, you know, that was lacking.
00:27:58
Speaker
And if we were to get into a disagreement, my gosh, he goes from being the quietest person to like the Tasmanian devil.
00:28:08
Speaker
And yeah, so that was like, I don't know if I can, yeah, if I could deal with this.
Positive Traits and Family Interactions
00:28:13
Speaker
And then, you know, this is a more logistical thing very, very quickly about a year and a half into our relationship, we became long distant.
00:28:19
Speaker
And yeah, that was extremely challenging.
00:28:23
Speaker
And we were long distance for about six years, almost six years.
00:28:26
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really, really long time.
00:28:28
Speaker
Yeah, and I think as well with your husband, when I came across him, was that he's a quiet person, but he's got such a good heart, and I know that there's nothing that he wouldn't do for you.
00:28:40
Speaker
Like, if you said you wanted a Range Rover tomorrow, he might be like, but why, why, why?
00:28:43
Speaker
But he would
00:28:44
Speaker
do what you can, you know, to get it as well.
00:28:46
Speaker
And he's always extended that generosity to other members of the family as well.
00:28:50
Speaker
And I think that's another underrated point about men is it isn't just about necessarily the way they treat you, but it's how they treat your family members.
00:28:59
Speaker
And it's not even to their faces behind their back.
00:29:01
Speaker
If they're willing to disparage, say, your sister or your brother or your mum in an unwarranted way, so to speak, if they're quite rude and dismissive towards them, that's a huge red flag, in my opinion.
00:29:13
Speaker
Because even if they've done something that they don't agree with, there's a way to go about that without going nuclear and being offensive, so to speak.
00:29:22
Speaker
That was just my observation.
00:29:24
Speaker
And I think he's always thought about, like, you know, sometimes I've asked him to do things, maybe like sometimes for me, but sometimes for the family or other people.
00:29:31
Speaker
He doesn't particularly think he should do what he doesn't want to do, but he recognises that it means a lot to me.
00:29:36
Speaker
And that's why he's doing it.
00:29:38
Speaker
And that's something that I've always appreciated.
00:29:40
Speaker
So it's that, I guess, that willingness to go the extra mile.
00:29:44
Speaker
And I think as well, like his like journey from being almost not really getting, you know, how women are mistreated to having a better understanding is like, he's very much, if we say like, for example, men are trash to all agree because he's seen it for himself or that, you know, I will like send him, I used to send him posts from the subreddit being like, ha ha ha.
00:30:05
Speaker
And he'd be like, yeah, the guy's like tapped or something like that.
00:30:10
Speaker
Can you ask Stephen if this scenario, if I should jump ship?
00:30:14
Speaker
And he'll just be like, yeah, jump ship.
00:30:16
Speaker
And they'll do it.
00:30:17
Speaker
Because they're just like, if Stephen says that, then... Yeah, they know that it's bad.
00:30:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:22
Speaker
Yeah, I'm gone.
00:30:23
Speaker
And he wouldn't just say that.
00:30:24
Speaker
Like, he doesn't like to... You know, he's a man and he still has solidarity with men.
00:30:28
Speaker
The kind of solidarity that I wish more women had with each other.
00:30:32
Speaker
But...
00:30:32
Speaker
He'll call bullshit out when he sees it.
00:30:35
Speaker
He'll call out male bullshit, yeah.
00:30:37
Speaker
So then, obviously, this is now the dating phase.
Financial Independence Before Marriage
00:30:41
Speaker
How do you then transition that from dating to marriage?
00:30:45
Speaker
What did that look like?
00:30:47
Speaker
Because I know it wasn't a case of you waiting to be proposed, waiting every time you saw him standing, please pick me.
00:30:54
Speaker
But how did that transition from dating to marriage?
00:30:58
Speaker
And obviously, because you were so...
00:31:01
Speaker
I don't think you ever lived together during, until again, you know, how did you manage that?
00:31:06
Speaker
Because again, in this society, especially in the UK where rents are increasing, it's almost seen as like, you have to live with somebody to know what they're really like.
00:31:14
Speaker
And that can get women into really, really sticky situations economically, because then if the relationship goes less,
00:31:20
Speaker
You're stuffed, basically.
00:31:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:22
Speaker
And that's a lot to do with why, you know, we're dating for a number of years before we got married.
00:31:27
Speaker
And when marriage started to look like a possibility or something that we both wanted and people were like, oh, why don't you get married now?
00:31:34
Speaker
It's been a while.
00:31:35
Speaker
And it was like, because I wasn't in a position financially where I could be independent.
00:31:39
Speaker
And that was really important to me.
00:31:41
Speaker
I did not want to enter a marriage with no job, no money, no means of being self-sufficient and to enter a marriage dependent on him because I knew that would, I would not feel comfortable.
00:31:53
Speaker
In fact, that would make me feel quite insecure.
00:31:55
Speaker
And if I'm insecure, I'm just, it's going to play out in the relationship.
00:31:59
Speaker
I don't think it would be good if him and overall for us, I just, it's just not a dynamic that I wanted, but how the whole, how marriage started was,
00:32:06
Speaker
It was just talk about our futures and what we wanted.
00:32:10
Speaker
And yeah, we wanted to live together.
00:32:11
Speaker
We wanted to explore having children because children, whenever, as I got older, children became less and less attractive.
00:32:18
Speaker
Like to me, well, not attractive, but it did.
00:32:21
Speaker
Like call a spade a spade, it just became less and less attractive as did marriage.
00:32:24
Speaker
Not because the marriage is anything wrong with the institution of marriage itself, but because of what I was seeing around me.
00:32:30
Speaker
And, you know, as you get older people, you become a bit more privy to people's relationships and people tell you things.
00:32:35
Speaker
And, you know, even if it was just a case of like mum and dad just going back and be like, oh, what happened to this couple?
00:32:40
Speaker
And they tell you because you're older and you're like, oh, like, is this what it's about?
00:32:44
Speaker
But yeah, so those last like probably about two or three years before we got married, it was very much thinking about our future and me constantly telling him the kind of relationship I wanted with him.
00:32:57
Speaker
And like, if we were to have children, this is the kind of father I would want you to be.
00:33:00
Speaker
And this is the only way it can work.
00:33:01
Speaker
And if it's not going to work, then Houston, we've got a problem.
00:33:04
Speaker
So it was a good two, three years of like carving out the kinds of life that we wanted.
00:33:10
Speaker
And for me, it's just stay in my case.
00:33:13
Speaker
And this is what I, this is what I need from you.
00:33:15
Speaker
Yeah, so how did you, I suppose, go into the marriage, obviously not having lived together full time until you were married, how did you go into it almost basically, you know, knowing what you were getting yourself into, in terms of the person you're marrying, considering, you know, bearing in mind that you hadn't lived with each other during any point of a relationship?
00:33:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, this idea that you have to live with someone to get to know them fully, I disagree with that, because I didn't live with him at all.
00:33:43
Speaker
And I knew exactly
Adjusting to Married Life
00:33:45
Speaker
what he was like.
00:33:45
Speaker
And we've been together now for over half a decade, married, we've been together for a lot longer than that.
00:33:51
Speaker
But we've been together now, we've been married now for many years, and there is nothing new that I've discovered.
00:33:56
Speaker
So I knew exactly the kind of guy that I married.
00:33:59
Speaker
I think it's about doing life together.
00:34:01
Speaker
I think it's about being honest and frank with each other and trusting each other, asking the right questions, getting to a point where, you know, you can ask, you know, that relationship that you have with this family member or this relationship, or what were you doing during this period of your life?
00:34:15
Speaker
Tell me more about that.
00:34:16
Speaker
knowing everything and not just taking it in as what they're telling you, but connecting the dots as to what that means in terms of his personality and his decision-making and his thought processes and how he manages and keeps and makes and ends relationships.
00:34:30
Speaker
So it's constantly not just taking, he says, at a surface level, but connecting, but digging deeper and trying to understand how that relates to his personality and his character and
00:34:40
Speaker
in a way that you think might translate for you if you were to marry that person.
00:34:44
Speaker
That's what I did a good few years before.
00:34:48
Speaker
And being married together and suddenly living together, yeah, that was those first few months.
00:34:53
Speaker
They were intense in that it wasn't the character stuff.
00:34:56
Speaker
It was just the living stuff.
00:34:57
Speaker
Like, you know, he had a thing of, you know, you cook in a saucepan or whatever.
00:35:01
Speaker
Rather than put it in Tupperware, he'd put it in the fridge, the whole pot in the fridge.
00:35:04
Speaker
And I'm like, what are you doing?
00:35:06
Speaker
Like, and he'd be like, I've done this for the past 10 years because he lived on his own for pretty much 10 years by this point.
00:35:13
Speaker
And it's like, no, you can't do that.
00:35:14
Speaker
Like, you know, we do shopping and I open the fridge and it's full of pots.
00:35:16
Speaker
I can't put the shopping in.
00:35:18
Speaker
I'm looking for pots when I'm cooking.
00:35:19
Speaker
Like, I don't think it's very hygienic to do that.
00:35:21
Speaker
That was getting used to each other.
00:35:23
Speaker
That was difficult.
00:35:24
Speaker
But then you just have to be patient with each other.
00:35:26
Speaker
And given the length of time that we've been together and the amount of life that we'd lived together, we'd lived through together.
00:35:32
Speaker
So we'd gone through lots of ups and downs, both personally, individually, as a couple.
00:35:40
Speaker
You kind of learn.
00:35:41
Speaker
You learn to be patient with each other.
00:35:44
Speaker
You know, certainly the biggest change, I suppose, was, you know, being married.
00:35:49
Speaker
You think it was more about what that meant for me, like being married and living with someone kind of for me was like having like a HD OLED mirror just being put on all my floors.
00:36:02
Speaker
and all the things that I'm not good at and equally all the things I am good at and the things that I am strong in.
00:36:06
Speaker
But that's like a self-development thing that I felt that was the biggest transition was for how it affected me personally.
00:36:13
Speaker
But yeah, I'd felt like I'd done my homework before I got married to him and I wouldn't have got married to him had I not.
Marriage and Independence
00:36:18
Speaker
Yeah, done your due diligence.
00:36:20
Speaker
And so what is, I guess, the marriage landscape, you know, like?
00:36:23
Speaker
Because for many of our listeners, that's something that they would like to aspire to.
00:36:28
Speaker
But then I guess, you know, when you see the state of so many marriages, where it's clearly a one-sided affair, or where the wife is basically a single parent, it can be difficult to conceptualise what a
00:36:41
Speaker
functioning healthy marriage actually looks like so can you give us some insight into that like you know what's it like basically being you know not married to a scrope i think it's always going to be a work in progress but you have to be willing to go against the grain
00:36:59
Speaker
that I've been told so many times, like questioned about the way we do our relationship, how we practice things.
00:37:05
Speaker
Like one of the first things that I found really irritating when I got married was this expectation that, and it was something that we both didn't want and we're both not like that, is this expectation that we suddenly become conjoined at the hip.
00:37:15
Speaker
So I remember a friend invited us out, I think for a games night and I was sick.
00:37:20
Speaker
So I was like, I'm not coming.
00:37:21
Speaker
So I messaged us, I'm not coming.
00:37:23
Speaker
I'm really sorry.
00:37:24
Speaker
And so Stephen went and then Stephen turns up and, you know, my friend's like, and you know, this is a, she's friends with both of us.
00:37:30
Speaker
And he's in fact known her longer than I had.
00:37:33
Speaker
And she's like, I don't think you were coming because Lara was sick.
00:37:37
Speaker
And he was like, why would I not come?
00:37:39
Speaker
Like we're not conjoined.
00:37:40
Speaker
Like this expectation that we have to do absolutely everything together or that we have to spend every spare moment of our lives together.
00:37:46
Speaker
Like during lockdown, I mean, you know, people were, my friends and people around me became, you know, very, I guess, kindly.
00:37:53
Speaker
It's not really the word, but the closest word I can think of right now.
00:37:56
Speaker
You know, kindly asking, you know, how are things with you guys?
00:37:59
Speaker
Because a lot of people were having arguments because they were in each other's space all the time.
00:38:02
Speaker
you know, just sort of being, is it really tough for you guys?
00:38:05
Speaker
Like, is there anything I can do?
00:38:06
Speaker
I was like, no, because we give each other space.
00:38:08
Speaker
Most of the time we spent in different rooms, like working because we were both working during that time.
00:38:13
Speaker
And then, you know, we have our own shit going on, basically.
00:38:16
Speaker
And we have our own lives.
00:38:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:18
Speaker
I'm not trying to be up in his face 24-7 and he's not trying to be up in mine 24-7.
00:38:22
Speaker
That's not how we've ever been.
00:38:24
Speaker
And that's not how I think, you know, I don't see that happening anytime soon.
00:38:28
Speaker
I imagine when you get to like your 70s, 80s, that's all you want for.
00:38:31
Speaker
You want that.
00:38:32
Speaker
But yeah, it's not how we work.
00:38:34
Speaker
So you have to be willing to go against the grain and decide what you want.
00:38:38
Speaker
And I feel like people just take the fun out of marriage and like long-term relationships because they feel like you
Handling Family Expectations Post-wedding
00:38:45
Speaker
have to do this.
00:38:45
Speaker
So, you know, you must buy a house together.
00:38:47
Speaker
You must have a minimum of X amount of children.
00:38:49
Speaker
The minute you walk down the aisle, you've got to start planning.
00:38:51
Speaker
And it's like, you don't have to do it that way.
00:38:53
Speaker
Like do what works for you.
00:38:54
Speaker
Like,
00:38:55
Speaker
you know, what is truly important to you?
00:38:56
Speaker
If it's really important for you to travel the world, go and bloody travel.
00:39:00
Speaker
Like, you know, having kids before you're ready is not going to make your life better.
00:39:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:06
Speaker
I remember like your wedding was barely over before like family members were asking when the kid is coming.
00:39:12
Speaker
No, at the wedding, people were saying, like, right, so, you know, nine months' time, we want to come back and we want to do the christening.
00:39:17
Speaker
And it's like, are you kidding me?
00:39:19
Speaker
And, like, you know what?
00:39:20
Speaker
And actually being married, thinking of the wedding, it was, like, another anecdote that I could... Oh, my God, that wedding.
Unequal Societal Expectations in Marriage
00:39:26
Speaker
I think everyone was finished, but probably you and Stephen were the most finished after those two.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah, we like, seriously, like at the wedding, people would come up to me and be like, make sure you look after him.
00:39:38
Speaker
Make sure you make his meals.
00:39:39
Speaker
Make sure you make a happy home.
00:39:41
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, cool.
00:39:42
Speaker
And they were saying it to be nice.
00:39:43
Speaker
And it was quite lighthearted.
00:39:46
Speaker
But at the end of the wedding, a couple of days later, I told Stephen, I was like, did you notice how no one said anything to you?
00:39:52
Speaker
No one said, make sure you look after her.
00:39:55
Speaker
Did she pay her bills?
00:39:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:58
Speaker
Make sure you pay the bills.
00:39:59
Speaker
Make sure you bring money in.
00:40:01
Speaker
You know, make sure you buy all the food that she's going to cook for you.
00:40:04
Speaker
Like, don't put that on her.
00:40:06
Speaker
Like, you know, nobody said anything to him.
00:40:08
Speaker
And he was just like, yeah, no one did.
00:40:10
Speaker
No one told me to do anything.
00:40:12
Speaker
Everyone came to you.
00:40:13
Speaker
And it's just that.
00:40:15
Speaker
And very, very quickly, I realized that.
00:40:17
Speaker
So when I was talking earlier about marriage benefiting people,
00:40:20
Speaker
having lots and lots of benefits for men and not so many for women, like those first few months, that became very apparent because it's like, gosh, like, you know, if we had an argument or disagreement or he was doing something that I didn't like or I was finding difficult and I confided in trusted people, the vast majority of these people, some of them being married themselves, they just gift wrap different ways of telling me, find a way of coping.
00:40:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:46
Speaker
you know, just try harder.
00:40:48
Speaker
Like, you just have to put up with it.
00:40:49
Speaker
And this kind of put up and shut up attitude that is given to women.
00:40:53
Speaker
But if he had an issue with something that I did and someone found out, it was like, Lara, he's your husband.
00:40:58
Speaker
Stop it immediately.
00:40:59
Speaker
Now, no excuse.
00:41:00
Speaker
You need to stop it.
00:41:02
Speaker
And it's like, oh, right.
00:41:03
Speaker
So I have to suddenly snap out of poor behavior, but I have to find a way of coping with it, you know, coping with his.
00:41:11
Speaker
And you have to be aware of that so that you can advocate for yourself.
00:41:15
Speaker
And I always present those.
00:41:16
Speaker
Anytime that comes up, I always tell him, oh, Stephen, look at that.
00:41:20
Speaker
Like, did you notice that?
00:41:21
Speaker
And it helps him remember that actually he has, he has advantages.
00:41:25
Speaker
He has advantages in a marriage relationship that I don't have.
00:41:28
Speaker
And it's literally just because of gender.
00:41:30
Speaker
So for him, it's like, you know, you have these advantages.
00:41:34
Speaker
So it's on you to like, to use them in a way that supports me and supports us and not to use them selfishly for yourself.
00:41:42
Speaker
But also for me personally, it's to be aware of those things that he has and make sure that those boundaries.
Balancing Parenting Responsibilities
00:41:49
Speaker
And I think for that reason, I think like women just as a woman, I just don't get to
00:41:53
Speaker
play with my boundaries the way men can like I think that they can push back on their boundaries in ways that I don't think I can afford to do you see what I mean and so I guess like to finish off the episode you now have a really cute little daughter who makes me laugh how has that changed the you know relationship you know dynamic in that way and obviously you know with the existing idea
00:42:17
Speaker
Even within marriages where both people are deemed progressive, you still have the workload falling disproportionately on the women as well.
00:42:26
Speaker
So what was that like, you know, trying to navigate basically being parents in a way that was equitable?
00:42:32
Speaker
Yeah, I guess I'm a few months in.
00:42:34
Speaker
So, you know, in a few months time, things I might feel differently.
00:42:38
Speaker
But my gosh, having children, I've never felt so vulnerable because you can just see no matter how.
00:42:45
Speaker
And, you know, I have a husband who is all in.
00:42:47
Speaker
There is nothing that he won't do.
00:42:49
Speaker
He's taken my, I've seen him take the baby like in meetings, like when he's working, he'll just have the baby.
00:42:55
Speaker
Whoever.
00:42:56
Speaker
And he's never said, no, I can't do that.
00:42:59
Speaker
He's never, ever said that.
00:43:00
Speaker
Or he's never complained about being a father and what that means.
00:43:05
Speaker
Like he's never made a thing out of it.
00:43:07
Speaker
So, and I can depend on him.
00:43:08
Speaker
And that sounds bare minimum, but there's just too many stories and too many relationships where it's like, oh, I'm babysitting tonight.
00:43:17
Speaker
You can't babysit your own child.
00:43:18
Speaker
Like you're looking after your offspring.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah, well, I've got work tomorrow.
00:43:22
Speaker
I need a full night's sleep.
00:43:23
Speaker
So I'm going to, you know, sleep in the other room or, you know, I'm not going to wake up at night.
00:43:27
Speaker
And it's like when I'm completely broken, if I'm at that point where I need a full night's sleep and he's got work tomorrow because, you know, I'm on maternity leave at the moment, he's not.
00:43:37
Speaker
He'll do it.
00:43:38
Speaker
That's part of it.
00:43:38
Speaker
Like if you have a kid, like you can't expect, yeah, sometimes you're going to have to go to, you know, he's had to go to work or start working a bit tired.
00:43:45
Speaker
I mean, he's not doing a job.
00:43:47
Speaker
I suppose if you're, I don't know, a train driver or something like that, where you can't really afford to be tired.
00:43:52
Speaker
Exactly.
00:43:53
Speaker
But that, like, his job is still quite involved, though.
00:43:55
Speaker
You have to be alert.
00:43:56
Speaker
It's still involved.
00:43:57
Speaker
He has to be alert.
00:43:58
Speaker
Like, you know, he deals with, you know, billions
Societal Pressures on Mothers
00:44:01
Speaker
of pounds.
00:44:01
Speaker
So it's his attention to detail has to be astute.
00:44:04
Speaker
But ultimately, this is something that we both went in together.
00:44:07
Speaker
And I felt vulnerable at times because I can see, like, it's so easy to be this, to fall into this, like, main caregiver.
00:44:15
Speaker
role, not because you want to, but because people like, and the things that people say to you sometimes, they either make the assumption that he's useless.
00:44:23
Speaker
They're like, oh, you know, they just don't get it.
00:44:25
Speaker
And it's like, no, what I don't think sometimes he's understood is the pressure.
00:44:30
Speaker
And he can't understand it.
00:44:31
Speaker
The pressure that is on women and mothers to be this, like, I call it Mary Poppins mum.
00:44:36
Speaker
And I'm never going to be that.
00:44:37
Speaker
I knew that I was never going to be a Mary Poppins mum and I'm, yeah, I'm not a Mary Poppins mum.
00:44:42
Speaker
And I don't care that I'm not because I'm the best mother to my daughter that I can be and all her needs are met.
00:44:48
Speaker
And she's just a beautiful, growing, clever, like exciting, dynamic girl.
00:44:53
Speaker
But there is this pressure to have like, you know, these Insta mums, they can all fucking get in the bin.
00:44:58
Speaker
Like all of them, they're all lying, every single one of them.
00:45:02
Speaker
But that's what I found hard for him to understand because he's just not a woman.
00:45:07
Speaker
But what I've done where we've had disagreements where I don't feel he's really understood me or like I'm at my limit and you don't get it.
00:45:14
Speaker
You just don't get it.
00:45:15
Speaker
I've sat there and written something and just read it out to him.
00:45:17
Speaker
And thankfully, like he's always responded.
00:45:21
Speaker
So like, you know, I'm doing this right now and he's now, he's gone out for the whole evening.
00:45:25
Speaker
He's like, oh, so that you can do your thing and so you can have the house to yourself because I rarely get the house to myself.
00:45:30
Speaker
And it is those things that I miss.
00:45:32
Speaker
I miss being able to have an hour to myself or watch something or just have the place, you know, especially after pregnancy where like you're so hormonal.
00:45:39
Speaker
At one point, I told him yesterday, finally, after like almost a year, but like your senses
Parenthood Impact on Relationship Dynamics
00:45:44
Speaker
are all heightened.
00:45:44
Speaker
And one time he was sitting next to me and I was in my second trimester at the time and he was breathing and it was just winding me up.
00:45:51
Speaker
It took every fiber of my being to not turn around to him and say, can you stop fucking breathing?
00:45:56
Speaker
And his breath was annoying.
00:46:01
Speaker
And he's not like he's, he doesn't breathe like Darth Vader.
00:46:04
Speaker
I think he's not like a mouth breather.
00:46:11
Speaker
I know.
00:46:11
Speaker
We did a whole episode on mouth breathers.
00:46:14
Speaker
A man can be annoying as fuck in the way that he breathes.
00:46:18
Speaker
About creepy men, I cried during that episode with laughter.
00:46:21
Speaker
It was so funny.
00:46:23
Speaker
And so right.
00:46:24
Speaker
Like, it's just everything.
00:46:27
Speaker
All the creeps that I avoided, it was like you captured all of them.
00:46:34
Speaker
And the other thing is I was shopping in the supermarket.
00:46:36
Speaker
So I was just there laughing my head off and people were giving me the craziest looks.
00:46:40
Speaker
But it was just, yeah, it was hilarious.
00:46:42
Speaker
But yeah, like he was just watching TV, but I could just hear his breath.
00:46:47
Speaker
And I just didn't like it.
00:46:49
Speaker
That's what pregnancy does.
00:46:50
Speaker
And I think pregnancy, and again, I knew this, I mean, I've got, you know, quite good friends who, you know, who'd gone through it before me.
00:46:56
Speaker
So they were able to like, be honest about how it really was.
00:46:59
Speaker
But, you know, I think having a child is the one thing that will make your relationship so much worse.
00:47:05
Speaker
People who think that having children and getting married will make your relationship better, like, you just don't know.
00:47:10
Speaker
It won't.
00:47:11
Speaker
Or if you're thinking about bringing a child into a relationship that is struggling, it will finish it.
00:47:17
Speaker
You're literally just accelerating the process.
00:47:19
Speaker
And that's not to say, mum,
00:47:20
Speaker
relationship is bad because i can see how strong my relationship has our relationship has been like throughout all this stuff but it puts so much pressure and it sucks all the fun it can really suck all the fun out of it like before we were just able to date each other and like go to just do whatever and it was so much more easier to just visited all the restaurants in the uk at some point yeah
00:47:41
Speaker
Yeah, literally become restaurant connoisseur.
00:47:44
Speaker
Like we traveled twice a year.
00:47:47
Speaker
And now it's like the thought of going to a restaurant.
00:47:48
Speaker
I was like, oh God, I like get my daughter ready.
00:47:50
Speaker
And like, she's going to do like, you know, it's just becomes not, you really have to so much harder to just, you know, to do the whole romance thing and to have fun.
Strong Foundation Before Parenthood
00:47:59
Speaker
It's harder to have fun.
00:48:00
Speaker
So if you're thinking that a baby is going to come in and make it better, it won't.
00:48:05
Speaker
I mean, a small part, not the biggest part, but it was a small part of the reason why I wasn't sure if I wanted to.
00:48:09
Speaker
I wanted to have kids because, you know, we're in a good place.
00:48:12
Speaker
But, you know, it's also been so rewarding to just see him become a dad and see the bond that they have together and just to be a family and stuff.
00:48:19
Speaker
So, yeah, I mean, I can't imagine doing this with someone who just wasn't what I needed.
00:48:25
Speaker
I just couldn't.
00:48:26
Speaker
And hopefully as well, I think this was something that mum and dad really got, you know, right us in terms of us growing up was they were very open and frank about their marriage and the struggles and, you know, what they would have to do
Parental Influence on Relationship Values
00:48:42
Speaker
together.
00:48:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:43
Speaker
i've asked them both if like knowing what you know now would you get married and they've said no but i laugh because the thing is so like they say no but they're also like each other's best friend as well and it's really you know the idea that you don't always have to be up in your partner's face all the time like you can do your own thing like dad watches you know politics and mom says the tv's his office yeah
00:49:09
Speaker
Mom stays in the room reading Daily Mail, reading articles about Meghan Markle.
00:49:15
Speaker
Reading articles about Meghan Markle saying how she's terrible for how she's treating her dad or whatever.
00:49:19
Speaker
And like on Facebook, like all the time.
00:49:21
Speaker
And they're quite, on paper, they're quite different people.
00:49:25
Speaker
But together, they just, you know, have such.
00:49:27
Speaker
And I think that is, you know, similar to what you and Stephen have been through.
00:49:31
Speaker
But the ups and downs, they're still just that enduring friendship at the basis of it as well.
00:49:36
Speaker
And I think the value system, what are your values?
00:49:38
Speaker
Yeah, they align.
00:49:40
Speaker
I think they just have to align.
00:49:43
Speaker
And even, like, they would say the same thing.
00:49:46
Speaker
They've been, you know, married almost 40 years and, you know, mum and dad will both say there's absolutely nothing about the other that I'm surprised about.
00:49:54
Speaker
And this is one thing that we get a lot of the time as well, is that this idea that this high value man can just mutate and become like Lucifer overnight.
00:50:03
Speaker
I don't think it's a thing.
00:50:04
Speaker
If you do your due diligence, I just don't think it's a thing.
00:50:06
Speaker
Like, you know, mom always said that character is like a smoke.
00:50:09
Speaker
You can only contain it for so long before it will come out.
00:50:13
Speaker
And I think that puts women, it almost makes them unnecessarily afraid that the man that they're seeing is just going to become this demon overnight.
00:50:21
Speaker
And it's like, if you trust in your standards and boundaries, if you trust your instincts, it's really unlikely that will happen, if not impossible, because you'll get a sense of who they are, especially if you're observing them and vetting them consistently over a long period of time.
Advice for Women in Dating
00:50:37
Speaker
Well, yeah.
00:50:37
Speaker
And also like, you know, not taking what they say at surface level.
00:50:42
Speaker
Like, so if they tell you something about themselves, okay, what does that tell you about their thought process of decision-making, their character, their morals?
00:50:48
Speaker
Like you have to go down to the granular sometimes.
00:50:51
Speaker
And even if you feel like you're doing it to like, and how does that play out for me?
00:50:55
Speaker
Like, what do I get out of this?
00:50:56
Speaker
And a lot of the time I left...
00:50:58
Speaker
when I was dating and I left relationships, it was because I just wasn't getting anything out.
00:51:02
Speaker
Like I just, what I was getting out of it was just wasn't worth what I had to go through to get it, you know?
00:51:08
Speaker
So to finish off the episode then, what would you say your top three pieces of advice to women dating would be right now?
00:51:15
Speaker
Without sounding like an Instagram motto, get to know yourself.
00:51:20
Speaker
It's really important to get to know yourself and purely so that you know what your strengths and weaknesses are and your vulnerabilities.
00:51:28
Speaker
So for example, for me, I'm very open book.
00:51:31
Speaker
So if I meet a guy for the first time and I like him, it's very obvious that I like him.
00:51:35
Speaker
I will be intentional.
00:51:36
Speaker
I will commit to things.
00:51:38
Speaker
I don't do all the whole, like, I'm not going, I'm going to ignore your phone call until later.
00:51:42
Speaker
Like I don't do any.
00:51:43
Speaker
I ain't playing games.
00:51:45
Speaker
I ain't playing games.
00:51:49
Speaker
I don't do it.
00:51:50
Speaker
I can't do it.
00:51:52
Speaker
So it does mean that, like, that makes me vulnerable to being played.
00:51:56
Speaker
And I learned that dating.
00:51:57
Speaker
And I always say, though, like, as a woman, if you feel like you have to start playing games in a relationship, you've already lost.
00:52:03
Speaker
Game over.
00:52:05
Speaker
It's game over.
00:52:06
Speaker
Like bail.
00:52:07
Speaker
And if someone started playing, like no matter how good a player you are, the person who started has got the advantage.
00:52:12
Speaker
You know, it's like, so just abort mission.
00:52:15
Speaker
So for me, I snuff it out.
00:52:16
Speaker
So when I was, if I'm seeing someone or when I was dating people, including my now husband, I look for gameplay.
00:52:24
Speaker
And if I get wind of it, depending on how much I like the guy, I might tell him, look, I'm suspecting that you're playing games because of X, Y, Z. Right now, I'm not going to ask you to account for it.
00:52:35
Speaker
I just want you to stop because if it doesn't stop, then that's it.
00:52:39
Speaker
And that's that.
00:52:40
Speaker
And I walk away.
00:52:40
Speaker
I just warn you.
00:52:41
Speaker
I might warn you once.
00:52:43
Speaker
And then I'll just block.
00:52:44
Speaker
And it's OK to have weak spots, but you need to know them because that's what can be used against you.
00:52:49
Speaker
And that way you don't have to change who you are, because I'm always going to be open book.
00:52:52
Speaker
If I like someone, I'm going to make it clear that I like them, you know, and that's just on one thing.
00:52:57
Speaker
Second, you just need to get more ruthless.
00:52:59
Speaker
You need to be more selective.
00:53:01
Speaker
Like you need to have your what's your firing criteria.
00:53:04
Speaker
And for me, like at one point it was like, if you said we're going to meet up at eight o'clock and you came to me with a cock and bull story, quarter to nine, at quarter to nine, like, bye.
00:53:13
Speaker
Like that was it.
00:53:14
Speaker
Cause dad would say summary dismissal.
00:53:16
Speaker
That's it.
00:53:17
Speaker
Like I wasn't interested in your excuses.
00:53:19
Speaker
Like I just wasn't, you know, if you turned up one day I went on, I think we went to somewhere like, it's not quite, it's not as probably as tacky as KFC, but I shouldn't, oh my gosh, I shouldn't say KFC is tacky, but do you know what I mean?
00:53:32
Speaker
It wasn't like a KFC.
00:53:33
Speaker
But it was like a step up, but not quite a restaurant.
00:53:37
Speaker
You know, there's like basically a fast food place.
00:53:39
Speaker
And we didn't spend too much.
00:53:41
Speaker
It was probably, I don't know, like worked out to be like 17 quid each.
00:53:45
Speaker
And the guy, when the bill came, he brought out his money and he brought out like, you know, the notes, then the pound coins and then the 50 Ps and then the one P like to the penny.
00:53:58
Speaker
And he did it really aggressively, like almost as if to say,
00:54:02
Speaker
I'm not, I'm paying off.
00:54:03
Speaker
And he kind of expected me, I guess, not to have the money.
00:54:06
Speaker
Clearly he'd been burnt in that.
00:54:07
Speaker
I don't know what it went on in the past, what went on in the past, but he was trying to make a statement.
00:54:11
Speaker
And so I remember just putting 20 pound note down for my half and he just looked a bit stunned.
00:54:17
Speaker
I didn't even question it, but I just, in my mind, I'm thinking with that kind of attitude, never again, I'm not seeing you again.
00:54:23
Speaker
But anyway, then the waiter comes and collects it and leaves the change.
00:54:27
Speaker
And he's like, you left your money there.
00:54:29
Speaker
Like there's some change there.
00:54:30
Speaker
And I was like, the tip?
00:54:31
Speaker
And he looked like such a clown.
00:54:34
Speaker
Like he was so busy trying to like do the half, like that he forgot to leave a tip.
00:54:39
Speaker
And the fact that I didn't make a fuss about paying half and I left, it was just so dumb, but I never saw him
Fun and Boundaries in Dating
00:54:44
Speaker
again.
00:54:44
Speaker
And he tried and tried like, and eventually after like nagging me on MSN, he was like, I'm really sorry about what happened.
00:54:50
Speaker
I was like, I don't.
00:54:51
Speaker
oh yeah that's really nice that you've apologized but I just don't care now like bye like I'm not gonna if you can't communicate how you what you want you can't communicate effectively and you're going to be aggressive like that no thanks you know so long story short just be more selective be more ruthless like and sometimes you know be the one that the one that got away like I feel sometimes that women just like like this whole ride or die thing where you just ride to the wheels fall off and
00:55:16
Speaker
And it's like, no, you can't just leave and leave him wondering.
00:55:19
Speaker
You know, there have been guys I look back and I think, yeah, we could have worked, but that thing, I don't want to deal with that.
00:55:23
Speaker
Or he could have changed, and I hope that he has, but I'm not.
00:55:28
Speaker
I'm going to be a lesson to him.
00:55:29
Speaker
I'm not going to ride to the wheels fall off.
00:55:31
Speaker
No.
00:55:32
Speaker
So that's like my second bit of advice.
00:55:33
Speaker
And then probably finally, like, I guess it's like two things, a mixture of just have fun with it.
00:55:39
Speaker
Like have fun with like dating and like have fun with like firing dudes, like be okay with that.
00:55:44
Speaker
But yeah, probably, I mean, maybe that's a side note, but for me definitely is like boundaries, like boundaries are so, so important.
00:55:50
Speaker
especially as a woman, especially if you're dating.
00:55:52
Speaker
Like, I feel like men will respect you more if you have boundaries, even if that means that they decide not to date you.
00:55:58
Speaker
Because sometimes, you know, initially when I started to get stronger and stronger with my boundaries, it meant that some guys just didn't date me or just wouldn't take it further.
00:56:05
Speaker
And I used to take that quite personally at the beginning.
00:56:08
Speaker
But now I know that actually they're respecting the fact that they can't give me what I want.
00:56:12
Speaker
So they've said, look, I don't, we can't do this and that's okay.
00:56:15
Speaker
But it does mean when a guy does sign up to being with me, I can feel secure in that.
00:56:20
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
00:56:21
Speaker
Like I'm not forever wondering because I'm not having to reinvent myself to be with him.
00:56:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:28
Speaker
And you're not selling yourself short as well.
00:56:30
Speaker
Like you can fully participate in the relationship knowing that you've made it clear what you will and won't tolerate.
00:56:36
Speaker
And it's up to the guy if he's going to meet that or not.
00:56:39
Speaker
And if he doesn't, it's cool.
00:56:40
Speaker
If he does, great.
00:56:41
Speaker
You'll have a good time.
Disastrous Date Story
00:56:43
Speaker
So yeah.
00:56:45
Speaker
Thank you so much for that insight.
00:56:46
Speaker
I hope that's been useful to our listeners.
00:56:50
Speaker
Thank you.
00:56:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:51
Speaker
I hope that's been, that can help someone or do something for someone or at least be entertaining.
00:56:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:57
Speaker
Actually, no, no, to cap off because we'd... I think we should do like a mini roaster scrope, Ray.
00:57:01
Speaker
What do you think?
00:57:02
Speaker
So, who was the biggest waste man you dated?
00:57:04
Speaker
Describe the date and we'll roast him.
00:57:06
Speaker
Oh, gosh, that's interesting.
00:57:08
Speaker
Oh, it had to be... Oh, gosh, I feel really... I'm like, what if... I'm like... I'm like... I'm like...
00:57:17
Speaker
I mean, it wasn't like the worst guy.
00:57:19
Speaker
It was a disaster of a day.
00:57:21
Speaker
So we agreed to go somewhere in central London and I had been in London in the morning.
00:57:28
Speaker
So I was already in London.
00:57:30
Speaker
I didn't, and at this time I didn't live in London.
00:57:31
Speaker
Actually, that's completely relevant, but he lived in London and he was making his way.
00:57:36
Speaker
And I,
00:57:36
Speaker
And I noticed it was a bit odd that he was talking to me, like pretty much for the entire journey.
00:57:41
Speaker
Like his travelling journey was about an hour and a half.
00:57:43
Speaker
And he only didn't talk to me for maybe like, I don't know, maybe about 15 minutes or that.
00:57:46
Speaker
But I didn't think anything of it.
00:57:47
Speaker
We were going to some IMAX cinema.
00:57:50
Speaker
And we got there and this guy starts ordering up the cinema, the bar, like he's Diddy.
00:57:58
Speaker
I think it's cinema food is so expensive in the UK.
00:58:01
Speaker
So expensive.
00:58:02
Speaker
So expensive.
00:58:04
Speaker
Like, and I'm like, oh gosh.
00:58:09
Speaker
And so then I just think, wow, like it's a bit, you know, a bit much, but then it's time to pay.
00:58:14
Speaker
And he steps back.
00:58:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:20
Speaker
And I'm like, we're about to go in.
00:58:22
Speaker
And they've brought all the popcorn, the hot dogs, the drinks.
00:58:26
Speaker
And there's like a long queue behind me.
00:58:30
Speaker
And so I'm like, are you being serious?
00:58:31
Speaker
I take one look at him and he's there looking almost like for a split second, I thought he was going to cry.
00:58:38
Speaker
But then, okay, so I paid for this.
00:58:39
Speaker
So I paid for it.
00:58:41
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:58:42
Speaker
Watch the film.
00:58:44
Speaker
Like, you know, and every time he took a crunch or a bite, like, I just heard pound coins.
00:58:49
Speaker
Like...
00:58:53
Speaker
Like, I was just like, okay.
00:58:55
Speaker
And then we sort of walked around after the film for a while.
00:58:59
Speaker
And it actually kind of got me a bit, you know, kind of charmed me a bit.
00:59:02
Speaker
So I was like, okay, I'm sort of, I haven't quite forgotten, but I'm like, okay, maybe I won't just cut you off.
00:59:07
Speaker
I'll just tell you that what you did wasn't cool, you know, when you get in later.
00:59:11
Speaker
And so we walked towards the train station because we're now going.
00:59:13
Speaker
And I'm not sure how familiar you are with these robe, but they were called Oyster Cards.
00:59:19
Speaker
Oh my God, I don't know where this is going.
00:59:21
Speaker
It's like the Metro, but it's like a tap thing.
00:59:24
Speaker
To top it up, you tap it on this machine.
00:59:26
Speaker
So I'm there topping up mine.
00:59:28
Speaker
And then he's like hanging around, giving me the same kind of like sheepish boy look.
00:59:35
Speaker
bearing in mind I'm going outside London so whatever his journey is going to cost at the time the journey was probably about a pound 30 like it wasn't a lot compared to my like 11 12 pounds because I lived out of London and so he then puts his taps his oyster and said could you mind putting do you mind putting some money on there
00:59:55
Speaker
what he wants you to pay for his transport home yeah and i'm like excuse me and he was like yeah i don't have any money and i was like what well i kind of figured that given that you ordered up the whole bar and then step back but like so he's like but how did you get here if you've got no money and then i clocked he walked he walked all the way from like he must have walked about three and a half miles wow like
01:00:25
Speaker
to this day, because that was why he could speak to me on the phone, because if he was traveling by public transport, he wouldn't have had any signal.
01:00:34
Speaker
It was all, and it all made sense, because the cinema tickets, he had a, like a coupon, a voucher, so they were free.
01:00:42
Speaker
Oh my God.
01:00:43
Speaker
So it was just like, so you walked here, and he was like, yeah, and I was like, we're going to have to walk back.
01:00:54
Speaker
Because you ate all your transport money.
01:00:59
Speaker
Even mine.
01:01:00
Speaker
Like,
01:01:05
Speaker
He looks at me at this time.
01:01:06
Speaker
It was like 12, but midnight and London isn't the safest of places and blah, blah, blah.
01:01:12
Speaker
And so he, then he just sort of, you know, gets a bit annoyed and just walks and walks off.
01:01:17
Speaker
I get home and then I didn't even call him.
01:01:20
Speaker
Like when I just woke up the next day, probably in the evening, he calls me and he's like, you didn't even check up on me.
01:01:27
Speaker
Like to see if I was still alive.
01:01:28
Speaker
And I was like, bro, like at what point did I become responsible for your welfare?
01:01:33
Speaker
I'm sorry.
01:01:34
Speaker
I'm not responsible for your wellbeing.
01:01:40
Speaker
And he was just like, I can't believe you made a big deal out of £1.20.
01:01:44
Speaker
I was like, I made a big deal out of £1.20.
01:01:47
Speaker
Me?
01:01:48
Speaker
Like, according to my bank records, you owe me about 35 quid.
01:01:55
Speaker
honestly so yeah that was like that was the most disastrous day like the guy he wasn't he was apart from that all that he was a really nice like really clever really talented like you know really really interesting guy but yeah that was yeah and it was like no oh but oh my gosh like you don't if you have no money that's fine but you then don't go and order like 35 quid worth of cinema food and just step back like oh my god
01:02:22
Speaker
And then expect me to pay for your travel home and then hold me responsible for the fact that you're walking home in anxiety.
01:02:30
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
01:02:31
Speaker
He didn't even ask... It's not like he asked me how my journey was.
01:02:34
Speaker
And you had further to go as well.
01:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, I had further to go.
01:02:37
Speaker
So yeah, that was a disaster of a day.
01:02:39
Speaker
And...
01:02:40
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:40
Speaker
And every so often I hear like, you know, whether it's on Reddit or whether it's a friend that goes on a date, I just hear variations of that story.
01:02:49
Speaker
But just like this whole, I'm just like, I can't believe this still
Episode Wrap-up and Closing Remarks
01:02:52
Speaker
goes on.
01:02:52
Speaker
It's almost like they read from the same like low value scrote handbook when the minute they turn like 15.
01:02:57
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
01:03:00
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:01
Speaker
So yeah, that was my most disastrous date.
01:03:05
Speaker
Well, hopefully he wouldn't try that again if he had to walk back three miles in Central Island at midnight.
01:03:15
Speaker
Oh, that was funny.
01:03:17
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me.
01:03:21
Speaker
Thank you for coming on our podcast because that was very helpful.
01:03:25
Speaker
And I'm, my sighs are hurting from laughing so hard.
01:03:34
Speaker
Thank you so much.
01:03:36
Speaker
Yes, of course.
01:03:36
Speaker
That's our show.
01:03:37
Speaker
Please check us out on Patreon for our weekly bonus content, patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
01:03:43
Speaker
And you can also discuss this episode on our website, the female dating strategy.com.
01:03:49
Speaker
Also check us out on Twitter.
01:03:50
Speaker
at femdatstrat, and Instagram, at underscore the female dating strategy.
01:03:55
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens, and for all you scrotes out there.
01:03:59
Speaker
And we hope you walk home alone in the cold at midnight with no money.
01:04:05
Speaker
Die mad!
01:04:06
Speaker
And die mad.
01:04:08
Speaker
See you all next week.
01:04:10
Speaker
Bye.