Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Ep. 205 – The Most Scandalous Brothers in all of Memphis w/ Drew & Grant of Twinnuendo
237 Plays3 days ago
This week we’re joined by Drew and Grant of Twinnuendo, a 50% gay podcast about two brothers reuniting after 20 years of living worlds apart! Drew is a drag queen living in LA with his husband and dog, while Grant is a former pastor raising 4 kids with his wife in Florida. The two of them reconnected after Grant’s turbulent exit from the church about a year and a half ago, and their show is all about sharing each of their perspectives on their childhood, as well as the fundamentally different worlds in which they currently live. These guys are sharp, witty, and very funny, and we had a great time talking to them. You can follow them on Instagram (@darbylynncartwright; @donttalktogrant; @twinnuendo), find Twinnuendo on the IMHO: The Show youtube channel (www.youtube.com/IMHOTheShow) or wherever you listen to podcasts!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Personal Reflections
00:00:00
Speaker
So, Sam, I'm gonna flip that that on its head. I'm gonna make you feel really good about this. I'm gonna go back to asking you questions after this question. No, this is real quick. And then I'm done. And I'm actually gonna leave after I ask this. okay Okay, so. Yeah, we can turn his camera off.
00:00:13
Speaker
You get, you get a tattoo and you're saying like, I know even my parents are asking me like, what does it mean? And and you seem a little like, oh, it's kind of, it's kind of annoying, but I'm going to flip it on its head. I'm going to say, and I'm going to say this to you. Your parents asked you, Hey, I see you son. I can see, I see you and I want to know what's meaningful to you. What does that mean? Because my parents,
00:00:41
Speaker
They don't even see me. Oh, I get it. This is the question to go all about you. like You don't even see me. You're like, oh, how do I, how do I make this? ah How do I ask a question about somebody, but make it about me? And you fucking killed it, Drew. ah That's 20 window, baby. Get out of my room, mom. I want you to look at that as more of ed a privileged moment.
00:01:02
Speaker
And do that as you are lucky enough that people look at you enough to ask you questions about yourself and that you don't have to wear wigs for money. What were you talking about?
Meet the Hosts: Drew and Grant
00:01:30
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Growing Up Christian. I'm Sam. I'm Casey. And today we are joined by Drew and Grant, hosts of the Twinuendo podcast. Drew and Grant, how are you guys? One at a time one a time. You guys are gonna do that thing where you just, ah yes, I wish we were gonna upload this video so people could have saw how good you were at silently cheering. Wait, we're not gonna have any video?
00:01:56
Speaker
We technically can. Let's take our shirts off. oh We always leave the thread open. So no one's seen anything? Let's put our shirts on. Oh, brother.
00:02:08
Speaker
brother Look, we try to establish a baseline of comfort with our guests, and I think the best way to do that is for everyone to see Jillian's nipples before we get started. and Perfect. Mine are on my neck, so it's easy to show. Yep. I see that. Which works straight for Hickey's too, because it's just easy access. It works out perfectly. So I guess, yeah were you trying to get us to introduce her ourselves and then we completely derailed the podcast? Great. My name is Grant and I am the straight twin of us. I'm a former pastor and I live in Florida with my wife and four kids.
00:02:47
Speaker
Nice, Florida, ankle deep water right now. ah Not where I am. Not where I am. No, I'm nowhere near all of that. I prayed it away. I prayed the hurricane away and I prayed the gay away. My brother's on the other side of the country, so. Yeah, I didn't even want to move to California. Nicked him in California. I just kept praying and he was like, whoa, it just kept pushing him for her in l a I'm in LA. Yeah. It was like inevitable for one of you and you just prayed harder, so Drew got it. Yeah.
00:03:17
Speaker
drew He prayed harder because he was straight, so God actually listened to his prayers. That's right. That's right. Anyway, I'm
Life as a Drag Queen and Podcast Origins
00:03:24
Speaker
the gay one. well You did choose to be straight ah gay, so that I don't know of God.
00:03:30
Speaker
Not only did I choose it, I mastered it. I could tell the second I met you. I literally have a wig within arm's reach. I bet you can't say that, can you, Strady? I have one about four feet above my head. I was going to say there's probably 50 of them about 30 feet that way. There's a gun on your wall, Casey. You shut your straight mouth.
00:03:56
Speaker
okay No, I live in LA I married a dude so it's not real nice of God. It's not our yes Okay, I don't have kids because of the whole biology thing so i keep trying though boy. Do they try check out his only hands Don't check out my only vans. That's not for your eyes I mean, it's for anyone who's willing to pay. Yeah. Well, I give that I give my dad a free membership. Oh, anyway. um but So I'm a drag queen and I have Internet show and Internet show do good and niche market. And then brother. you
00:04:34
Speaker
drag, drag queen, gay, drag queen. Wait, but you say, I was thinking there was maybe something more, when you said do good in niche marketing. Drag queen is pretty niche. Drag queen is pretty niche. Yeah, but they do something specific. Sorry. Plug it, brother. I don't know why you're being so- That's a niche. That's specifically niche. What do we do? What do we do? You focus on RuPaul's Drag Race.
00:04:59
Speaker
which is the most like normal mainstream thing drag could be a part of. So that's even less mainstream. I understand that, but what I'm saying is like you didn't, like it's not just, we we're gonna talk about drag. Twin fights are the worst. You review the drag race. I'm trying to, you watch Drew, I'm proud of you. And I want other people to hear about what you're doing. Stop making me angry as I try to support you.
00:05:22
Speaker
Anyway, and so then Grant
Family Dynamics and Conservative Upbringing
00:05:24
Speaker
leaves church. Shut up, Grant. Grant leaves church. And he's like, I can't feed my family anymore. Church left me. Grant. okay and I said, do you want to start a podcast? ah Because I have an audience that I have built on our our trauma that we had in childhood. And we should market that and make money off of it. And then like, it'll hurt our parents. And now we have a podcast.
00:05:50
Speaker
That's not exactly what happened. it snores that Are they hurting? Are they hurting? Have them listen to it? Do you have your parents listen to it? Kind of. so Sort of. My dad is 81. He can't listen to things anymore. um So he just reads the transcripts. He physically can, but they the he just can't process it anymore. His brain doesn't work.
00:06:17
Speaker
It's like, it's like, uh, Trump talking about Arnold Palmer's dick. Like it's, it's like, yeah like that's my dad's brain. Like he's just, you know, he's just always thinking about Arnold Palmer's dick. Always drinking and I'm the gay one. yes lemonade Well, you get it from? A concerned sort of way though. Right. Like he wants to know it's doing okay.
00:06:40
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. he Yeah, he's dead. So I don't know. It's probably how doing great. Yeah, it's probably not great. But my mom has seen definitely seen some reels. um I don't know if she's listened to a whole episode or not. So it's in her best interest if she doesn't. And I don't. I was like, please, mom, don't. Yeah, that's usually a good way to get someone to do something.
00:07:07
Speaker
Yeah, but I was like, I mean, my sales pitch was, please don't. On the first episode, Drew explains to me what an anal pap smear is. And she was like, Oh, okay. That's science. That's which we don't believe in. And we definitely write them in high school.
00:07:27
Speaker
Oh yeah, that's actually true. Yeah. Yeah. Probably offended her more than anything. But like my parents, my parents are the type of people who, I mean, they're you're still Southern Baptists. You're parents anymore. I forgot to tell you, you're out. a emancip they don't They're not a huge fan of mine. I blame them. I'm not easy. and a family me Not an
Growing Up Christian: Expectations and Experiences
00:07:51
Speaker
only fan.
00:07:52
Speaker
No, no, no, they are that. They are that. I mean, the content's great, guys. They love seeing my body. My body's beautiful. I mean, I wanted to hate it, but it's great content. God hates beauty and twins, you know? I remember hearing as a kid that... I remember hearing too.
00:08:07
Speaker
It was a, I would be told like, well, there are situations, like people say they're born gay, but there are situations where ah there are twins and one's gay and one's straight, but biologically they're the same, so therefore it's ah it's a choice.
00:08:24
Speaker
yeah i see a nice straight I think this is all a con. Like, remember, he said his podcast is very niche. And I think he couldn't be successful as a straight person. As I've demonstrated, you cannot be successful and be a straight twin. And so he went the other way. He's very talented as a pastor, which is the number one easiest job for a white man to have. I really couldn't. And so you're kind of living like the reverse life of a televangelist.
00:08:51
Speaker
Like you're going to build and build and build your career until ah suddenly you're outed as being a straight guy and it's going to ruin everything. Boo. Great. and yeah um I have a quick question before we get too deep into this. Am I barely being heard? um no i wouldn't I was here. You were very low in my, in my ears.
00:09:13
Speaker
Cause my little thingy, I have, I have barely the bars and I want her to say, I don't have a little thingy. That's Drew's thing. No problem with it. No shame. I we just i have of you sound average i hope yours is huge. Okay. I want that for you. You're the top. All God's blessings. Yep. Thanks. bro Yesterday, man. Is there a way that I can turn it up or no? Uh, it is coming through by headphones. Just fine. It sounds good.
00:09:43
Speaker
Okay, okay. Okay. I'm just I'm now I'm very self-conscious that my little thingy isn't big enough i would see Because Casey's isn't very big either if you look at his wavelength knowing Sam, but I can't hear a goddamn word. He says case i say dana ya can you see if you're just i may not at all trying to get pan into my ear peaks and gains again i got casey Oh wait, I can turn my gain up Oh, that just went up. That went up. What? It's loud. Shit. and Take a step back from your microphone, maybe. What the fuck? Well, turn it down a little bit. I did it. This guy just discovered games for the first time in his life, and he can't. Okay, wow. Whoa. Whoa, whoa, whoa, who whoaa whoa, whoa, whoa. Now that's the only level of mobility with your microphone, too. Like, you can kind of get back and dance a little ways.
00:10:36
Speaker
That's true. I could mine's still good guys. Mine's still real loud. Oh yeah. your yeah Is too loud. You have a very aesthetically pleasing backdrop too. He designed it for the podcast. The mirrors and stuff. I mean, i don't know yeah well our podcast, you're only seeing this.
00:10:57
Speaker
Yeah, don't, but shut up. Cause like the first one we did, you were talking about like, Oh, we're going to paint the room and we're going to move this in. And the first podcast you were talking about how you wanted it to be more aesthetically pleasing and then you painted it.
Mega-Church Culture and Its Impact
00:11:12
Speaker
I did. That's, you did it for the podcast. Well, before we, uh, looks like that, uh, Magnolia section at target, which That's the nicest thing is so nice. that is I think, I think all of it is target. I'm not kidding. I think everything here, these books are from Drew. You're a white man in Florida with four kids. I think it's all from Target. yeah sort shopping a target du as public yeah You do your grocery shopping Target
00:11:41
Speaker
Oh, I think Sam was actually asking, I'm sorry Grant, go ahead. Where do you do your grocery shopping? That's it's a question we ask every episode. We ask all of our guests. with Oh, we we grow our own stuff. We're super, we're really naturalists like that. Isn't that cute? We go to Aldi, we don't have a lot of money. We go to Aldi, sorry.
00:11:58
Speaker
All the rips, I went to an Aldi for the first time in my life. Well, I didn't go. My wife went because she's a woman and she obviously does a grocery shopping. What a story. right We don't go to Aldi all the time, but when we do our kids, like my wife just went to that field train. Well, no, no, no, they hate it. So my son came in and he opened up the pantry and he goes, everything's off brand.
00:12:20
Speaker
I was like, yeah, man. <unk> to haldi I don't know what to tell you. You think that happens in other countries? Like, does that ever happen in Belgium? They only have off brand in Belgium. Yeah. And everything's just chocolate, right? They just open up the chocolate fridge. You can only get off brand Cocoa Krispies, off brand Cocoa Puffs, off brand Cocoa Pebbles, off brand. What's the spooky one?
00:12:48
Speaker
Um, scary Oreos. Choose. Count Chocula. Count Chocula. Count Chocula. And that's what I said. I knew straight Grant would come here for me on Count Chocula. I got you.
00:12:59
Speaker
Thank you so where' did you guys grow up because it sounds like you went to florida to because they were like pretty easy to swindle with ah pastor shit and then drew you went to l a because are california because that was the only good place to be gay probably when you came out so now give me the real story now You're gonna, Drew, Drew looks like he was agreeing with me in his body language. You're just mad that I called you out for swindling people. you'll never That's true. yeah No, we're swindling now. That's what this podcast is. You'll never guess <unk>ndling the the first city that Drew was out in.
00:13:43
Speaker
Like he lived as an out gaming. Shut up. You'll never guess. You'll never guess. Shut up. It's got to be like Saratoga. I don't know. What is he? I mean, he might as well be. Anyway, Drew, why don't you start? Bowling Green, Kentucky, okay, was when I came out of the closet. but I was ready to be gay around the horses. They're at Corvette Museum. I lived down the street from the Corvette Museum. There's nothing greater than that.
00:14:10
Speaker
Um, yeah, I came out. We, so we grew up in Memphis, Tennessee. Um, we killed Elvis. I don't know if you heard, sorry about that was not, was not our plan.
00:14:23
Speaker
And then Grant decided in high school that Jesus was like his thing, right? So he's like, I'm going to go to Mississippi College, a private Southern Baptist College outside of Jackson, Mississippi. And then I said, well, wait, hang on a second. That sounds good to me, because if I go there, then God will change me. and So I followed Grant down there to be changed. I ended up sleeping with everyone in my dorm and my English professor and I lived in his dorm. So that's another episode. yeah Go ahead Drew. like sorry and We're talking about the Old Testament. Christian dorms are gnarly places. We went to Liberty University.
00:15:14
Speaker
so I know. Did you really? Obviously, it's why I'm not gay anymore. they They're gay conversion therapy programs. Oh, I went to the wrong one. Yeah, it has worked so good. I didn't work on several others like our buddy, Luke Wilson, but you know he's not he's a little weaker than I am when it comes to his love for God.
00:15:36
Speaker
but I do love that that you said he's weaker than you and then you picked up your wine glass with your pinky out. Yeah, I'm a big pinky out, dude. I really I I don't really know how to drink with my pinky in. What was that? Let go of that toxic toxic masculinity. What is that? No, it was just strange.
00:15:56
Speaker
It was a strange flex is all I'm saying. Anyway. Or was it refined? You know what? I'm the real man here. Christian college dorms are full of straight people who are like about to try the gay shit you could possibly do. And then be like, it was a phase. And it probably was for me. Cause we didn't know anything. We didn't know anything. That's the thing yeah is you go to college, you're so horny and can't have sex with the women so you know pretend it's a joke to jerk off in the same room together
00:16:29
Speaker
And now, and you get it. And you, I thought you looked familiar. sam what are Sam's got stories. case is like she a lot i remember when we laugh no actually ah it's fun So that, ah that never actualized for me, unfortunately, but I never did. My roommates were, uh, my roommates were identical twins.
00:16:52
Speaker
And yeah, they, they dressed the same every day. Um, did you guys ever have a face where you dress the same at all? We're not identical. You know, are we you look, grasss you look very similar. Oh my God. Thank you. So we're, we're Mary Kate and Ashley Olson twins. So they're fraternal. Okay. And it's, it's, we look exactly alike, but we're technically not, at it like we don't have the same blood type.
00:17:20
Speaker
Okay. How am I finding that out? I love how Grant knows Drew's blood type. Cause I'm the, I have straight blood and you have gay blood. Oh, oh sure. It's so simple. Mine's full of rainbows. Yeah. You have pre HIV. I knew you were going to say Grant.
00:17:42
Speaker
I know that you feel comfortable because you are in a room full of straight men and there's a little gay clown in the corner. Listen. Can't say that. The the last podcast, someone, ah ah one of our fans gave me a pass to use the F slur and I refused. So that was my, um now that's pretty big of you actually. Yeah. yeah I didn't realize he used it enough in your childhood. So it's been used, Grant. You are getting your quota by age 10. Do you have any evidence? Do you have any evidence to that, Drew? Remember? Yeah, I'm a drag queen. If you had treated me kindly in our childhood, I'd be a doctor right now, you piece of shit. I wear wigs for money. I wear wigs for money. All I did growing up was I was like, Drew, I just feel like you're not being honest about who you are.
00:18:36
Speaker
Every night. Did I say that? No, it's all I've heard a lot. He said the f word a ton. And, um, yeah. And he, he trained an exchange student from France, uh, to call me that word trained because he train him you did grant. He didn't know what it was. So he trained him.
00:18:57
Speaker
to call me the F word. Wait, shut up. We train. This is my time to speak. This is my I reclaim my time. So we take we take Guillaume, this fucking stinky little boy down to Destin, Florida with us. He was very stinky. And Grant was very like Grant was very coy about it. Like he made sure that he wasn't directly tied to the slur when it would happen.
Family History and Church Influence
00:19:23
Speaker
And then, of course, he would call me the slur the French guy and then I would go to my parents and I'd be like, um, he called me this slur. And then my parents would be like, shut up. He doesn't know what it means. And then we go to dinner. Okay. We're at this restaurant in Destin, Florida. Oh my God, Casey, you would have loved it. Cause there was a big moose head on the wall and I don't know why. Oh yeah. You case would have loved it. Cause someone killed it and you could have been that somebody, you know? my you should its face Oh, for sure. You can't take that out of the eyes anyway. So there's a big moose head.
00:19:55
Speaker
And he does it again. And Grant, i I will say that I might be dramatizing this in my mind, but I am gay. And I think I remember you like nudging him or something. And then... That sounds... yeah He let him MK ultra just for the F word. Grant. Grant. Every time he snapped his fingers, every time he was like... Cough. You wish it sounded like it wasn't real, but it happened. Okay. This is how you you pass the gravy boat. And then he says, Grant, you are a straight white former pastor man. You are the king of gaslight. If I was gaslighting you, you would know it. Anyway. Okay, so he is. oh yeah I am. No, but he calls me the F slur at dinner and I had a giant
00:20:44
Speaker
That was his mistake. Just brought to me a giant Coke with ice and it was in a huge glass because it was in Florida and they love soda. And I threw it in his face. I like, like a housewife. I was like, ah I threw it in his face, ice everywhere. And as soon as I do it, French guy goes like this.
00:21:09
Speaker
Oh my God. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. He just puts his head down. He just goes, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah. And everyone explodes at me, of course. Like I'm a psycho. And Grant, do you want to step in here and say how you supported me in this moment?
00:21:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think I said, go back to France, you get out of here. No, no, no, no. We respect. He stayed next to Guillaume and kept his arm around him for the rest of dinner. So that's a that's a real pastor groomer kind of move there. Oh, bring it in here, buddy. It's OK. Yeah, I was 16. I don't know if you're story the right way.
00:21:57
Speaker
You're born a master just like you're born gay. It's the same. Yeah. No, you choose to be gay. You're born a pastor. Yeah, you're born a bastard. So anyway, i have like um did you guys get a lot of like, it's that like it sounds like Grant, you got serious about Jesus in high school, but did you guys have like a strong Christian upbringing or is this like some ah I forget, what's the group that would go to high schools and try to convert?
Grant's Journey Through Religious Crisis
00:22:27
Speaker
Students? Yeah, it's like a club.
00:22:30
Speaker
Young Life? Yeah, you again Young Life. i was thinking I was thinking Young Life. Because that Young Life, they were a little bit more dishonest um or calculated. Depends on who won. I was the kind of Christian that was just like, it's all out here. Up front, you know what my MO is. Young Life was like, you guys want to go like drive go-karts and dirt bikes and like have a lot of fun?
00:22:55
Speaker
And then they do it and then they trap you with like the message of Jesus, but they get subtle about a lot of young life events. Yeah. Like my parents didn't like young life because they thought that they were too like cryptic and they're messaging and they weren't as like, you know, it's like being, if you're not as overt with the gospel, it's because you're ashamed of it. Oh, real, uh, real, real Tolkien CS Lewis conundrum there, huh?
00:23:22
Speaker
Drew doesn't understand what I just said. I don't think in Awana because approved workmen are not ashamed and Awana? Oh yeah. Approved workmen are not ashamed, but young life seems to be. So I just always assumed they were not properly vetted by our father in heaven. Grant, so you want to yeah do you want to share our background in mega church and such as and therefore?
00:23:46
Speaker
Yeah, so we grew up in a giant megachurch in Memphis. We grew up at Bellevue Baptist Church. Adrian Rogers was our pastor. What was the name? Adrian Rogers. Well, he sounds familiar, but I don't know the name Adrian Rogers. So Adrian Rogers was. Yeah. that Well, he was. He actually was. He was. And now he's dead. And I have his funeral on EBD.
00:24:14
Speaker
And I have this funeral on DVD because that is something the church sold. they social it's ah It's a funny story, but Drew actually just kept filming and they were like, what are you doing? It was like a private family thing in his backyard. Was it on an episode of Coffin Flop? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, he fell out. Body after body, falling out of shit wood and hidden pavement.
00:24:41
Speaker
So we, we grew up in a giant, giant mega church. And our so our pastor was the president of the Southern Baptist convention for many, many years. Okay. yeah Um, so that tells you almost everything you need to know. So our, our parents, um, met under dubious circumstances. My, my father, it's his second marriage. And when they got married and his first marriage wasn't over when they met, we were, um,
00:25:10
Speaker
But we were like two, two years old or so, and they brought us to this mega church. Cause they were like, we gotta raise our kids in church. And my parents got baptized. Your bio parents, not your. Yeah. Okay.
00:25:24
Speaker
Yeah, or biological parents. Yeah. And they're still married. Unfortunately. Oh, OK. Sorry, I misunderstood. The person that your dad was married to previously is not your mom. Gotcha. She's correct. And that bitch died, too, o because she's lying all over the place. So she got divorced. um and thread She got divorced and she couldn't marry in the church. So she withered away. ah funnyies Fun fact, um when my parents got married, they got married in a Methodist church.
00:25:54
Speaker
Because the Baptist church wouldn't marry them because of how they met. Um, so there you go in propriety. All made up. This is all made up. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead. it's I mean, it's definitely not. So we grew up in this mega church. And so my parents were kind of like, that was in the eighties. That was like early mid eight or I guess mid eighties. It was happy Reagan time.
00:26:18
Speaker
ah It was the, it was the religious right. It was like the height of the religious right in America. I mean, they're doing pretty well now, but ah again yeah they're very sh they've done a I mean, but like, you know, obviously like denominations are on the decline right now, of course, at the time in the mid eighties as a complete opposite of what was happening. Um, and you had the satanic panic and you had all of that going on. And so.
00:26:45
Speaker
That's when our parents jumped into the evangelical church, like at the height of lunacy. Um, so we grew up, um, I mean, really we grew up in the nineties. Uh, we were in high school in the early, uh, for a couple of years in the early odds. And so we were nineties Christians in the evangelical mega church. And so purity culture, um,
00:27:09
Speaker
Uh, weren't very friendly to gays, um, conversion therapy, all of that was a big deal.
Departure and Shunning from the Church
00:27:16
Speaker
Uh, yeah, it was, it was pretty rough and it's, yeah it was such because we were at a mega church. I don't know if Drew's experience, if, if, if he would say this was different, but, um, it created its own ecosystem. So we were never outside of it. Every sport I played was there.
00:27:38
Speaker
Every major event was there. Fourth of July was there. Christmas was there. Like every, you know, we were there Sunday morning, Sunday night, Wednesday night, at least. That's the least amount of church we're going to do in a week. um So our whole, our whole lives were there. The musicals we were in and like all those things, it was all there. and yeah Well, yeah. but ah ah Public schools, which were probably had a lot of the people from your church in them anyway, but.
00:28:08
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, we grew up in the public schools that was truly, we talk about this all the time of, and I struggle to think of the name of someone who wasn't in church at our high school. Like, the biggest club was, what is it, FCA? Future Christian athletes? No, it was Click. Click. Christian. Great Adam Sandler film. What was it? I love the movie Click. It's like a movie. Oh, Christ's love in Christian kids. Ew. That's what it stood for. You're gay, Drew. I know. Christ's love in you, kids.
00:28:48
Speaker
um So it we grew up just very, like Grant said, completely in this bubble that even now, as Grant and I, because Grant and I just reconnected when he left the church like a year and a half ago. And really, we've never deeply talked about our childhood before. And it's only been since we started this podcast a few months ago that we've started to really ah understand each other's growing up experiences. And by that, I mean him understanding mine. I got his, I get it. I got what you did. Okay. yeah I got your number buddy. So it's mostly just rehashing all the times you've made a
00:29:30
Speaker
a Slur reference to him or trained a french boy to say it. He can you can you turn that game down? can you you wouldn't mind turning or gain down to the little not shut down a little list your your max i got it okay No, so like it's only been recently that we've really been kind of unpacking what what the What we grew up in and even now at the ripe old age of 36 and 7 as we all are Mm-hmm I think we're still kind of coming to terms with the fact what happened to us. like i People will comment, oh my God, your childhood sounds insane. like We'll tell a story and they'll be like, oh, that that story, I can't even believe that. And I'm like, I can't believe you didn't have that experience. What do you mean that's crazy to you? yeah We were just so protected. And then even to go into college and go to a fucking Baptist college,
00:30:29
Speaker
It was truly not until our mid-20s that we were finally on our own two feet, not directly in the church. By we, I mean me. Grant was like super into the church. He got really into the church. I was like, I went straight from college to seminary to church. I mean, so I don't, I was always in the church.
00:30:48
Speaker
I connected a lot. I didn't do seminary, but I got ah my I did a Bible degree at Liberty and then was just very actively involved. Liberty, Liberty, Liberty, Liberty. Very actively involved in churches um and did that. It wasn't until like I don't even think I started like I shifted towards like a more progressive version of Christianity. I started to in my like late 20s, mid to late 20s. But even then, like It's still weird. Like, yeah, it's weird how when I think about how old I am and when I think about when I started. 36. Yeah, thank you. Raw 36. I love it. I love being with you. Casey's 40. It's hard to believe. Casey! Looks so good.
00:31:35
Speaker
Oh my God. It's hard to remember. Not only did you turn that gain up, you turned the age up a little higher. You turned that age up. What's under that hat, Casey? What's under that hat? Oh, a lot of gray. He's a silver fox now. Casey, look at us. Look, Casey, look at this. Oh, yours looks beautiful. Look at that. I'm going to be completely gray in another year. Take that hat off your hair. You have so much hair. Grant actually has a ton of hair because Years ago, Grant was like, I started taking this hair loss medicine. I was like, we don't need it. And then I saw him in person after not seeing him for a couple of years and I was like, oh, we did need it. We really should get a brand deal with them. You should. Right? It'd be cool. You could always be the before. Right. Yeah, exactly. It's like your show and Tony Hinchcliffe.
00:32:29
Speaker
the That was something fun. My favorite part is just that. I'm still laughing. My favorite part about anything that happens is that not only do you, you just have to hear it in the same form and fashion for like four weeks post the event. There's no getting away fifth from it. It just occupies all spaces in perpetuity until someone else says something really stupid. I mean, it's like the stupid thing was He's an insult comic. He just did what an insult comic does. Do you want him to come on and insult a giant voting base that are in swing states? Why? I would love to know whose decision it was. Like who thought it was a good idea. A secret liberal. There was some sort of little liberal in there. They said that he had a joke about Kamala where he called her the C word. And so one, but one of the Trump staffers was like, cut that out.
00:33:36
Speaker
And so that means they approved the rest of it. They had to have known because to say the rest of it. I have a little conspiracy theory about it. And that like, I don't, I mean, Hinchcliffe doesn't seem like a guy who really cares about anything. Apparently apparently he is.
00:33:54
Speaker
I don't really listen to his show ever, but I was talking to some people today and they're like, oh, he's a huge Trump guy. oh yeah well um yeah So my conspiracy theory is no good because I didn't do my, I didn't do my own research. but Uh, I was, there was a part of me that was like, would've been awesome if he was like, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna do this in a way that just kind of like a self-sabotage thing. Like let's just blow this thing up from the inside. And not because he's like a liberal or anything like that, but because he's Tony Hinchcliffe and the idea of just ruining the thing. Do we know him? I don't know. Is he a person?
00:34:31
Speaker
No before this yeah stretched over malice yes the dump is like one of the number one podcast Casey that was so scary. I'm looking right now at all little like lines and you've been quiet this whole time and then just out of nowhere you go.
00:34:48
Speaker
He's just skin stretched over malice. That was a good pull on Halloween. The day before Halloween. Casey, yeah. Is it Devil's Night? Is tonight Devil's Night? Is that still a thing? Yeah. If you want it to be. No, in Eastern. I think the- Devil's Triangle Night. Yeah, what is it called? In like the Northeast, they have like, is it called Devil's Night?
00:35:13
Speaker
I don't know. Satan is the prince of the air every night is his night, right? That's true. He rules the world, right? and i need should hate an air world So every night's his night. So stop resisting. Yeah, let's do it. Let's pray to Satan. Give in. I'll start.
00:35:33
Speaker
only prior sorry oh dont they I had this when I was a kid I watched a Christian movie about i people getting possessed and I had this like jingle all the way for so ver the long way yeah no ah the Santa Claus actually Turbo time. ah Speaking of Trump. But I had this fear, like I was like, ah if I asked Satan to enter my body, would I like instantly be possessed? And I remember kind of trying, but I could never get more than like one word into it because I was so scared it would work. I like to imagine that this Satan character exists and he is just in your bedroom just going, come on, say just say the words. You would stop and then be like, fuck.
00:36:22
Speaker
And then you get back to hell and they'll be like, how'd it go, master? And be like, he edged me again. Like, I can't get in that. kid What is the what? What is that lore? Because it's the same thing with vampires. You have to invite them to come. Who made up that? That's such a funny. Like you're creating the most evil person in the world, and they have so much power. They can do anything they want except cross the threshold.
00:36:52
Speaker
Like what the fuck is that? Satan, you're a bitch. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He's a gentleman. So we've got Satan along. Consent matters. Consent matters. You're safer with Satan than you are with Donald Trump is what we're trying to say. Like consent matters to Satan. He will wait. If that's true, then I need to rethink my vote.
00:37:13
Speaker
You haven't campaigning pretty hard. I appreciate you making time to be here. I think he's funny, Grant. I think he's funny. I know. You don't want to lose him. You don't want to lose him. I know you want to see his mental decline in the White House. Yeah. I want him to say crazy shit in front of the White House Christmas tree. Like, come on. The blood red Christmas tree that his wife is going to put up after she tells somebody who the fuck cares about Christmas.
00:37:43
Speaker
I love her. She's an icon. I really do. i I she is so funny. She feels like the Jim Halpert of the White House. Like she fucking hates that she's there, but she won't say anything. She just kind of like looks at the camera, and you know, like everyone's one person to fuck with. Exactly. She has signed on to this so hard, and I think we all ah Well, I can't say we all you know what it is I'm a narcissist because I think everything I think everyone else thinks Anyway, I got that from my dad. Thank you. I think like she finally admitted it I don't he immediate I think she like she signed on to this thinking. Okay, fine I can fuck this kind of gross guy for a little bit have his kid was pretty much how everyone and who ever I gonna say my wife made the same deal.
00:38:36
Speaker
and then she all right ah And then she became first lady, you know? And she's like, I did not sign up for this, but I am so deep. Like, I'm so fucked. So part of me feels bad for her, but then obviously part of me feels like she's obviously a huge part of the problem. Sorry to get so political. She seems very over it this time. Like she really didn't participate in anything. I love since like 2022. I love that he's like he's in federal court and she's like, I'm not coming. It must it must really hurt for him to not feel that support from someone he loves so deeply. oh Yeah, I bet. I bet that hurts. him deeply that Poor guy.
00:39:22
Speaker
good All right. You guys, you, okay. So you go to Christian college. I want to know if you're a Christian rock kids. Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. which So it slap, not flat, not. It was my favorite. Yeah. I mean, we, uh, secular music. Oh, look at his t-shirt. Look at his t-shirt. Thank you. There we go. Forgiving to the Lord. Hey.
00:39:50
Speaker
I am so glad you did. I got really high a couple weeks ago. And when I get high, I order things. Me too. And I bid on this Ray Bolts t-shirt on eBay. And then the next day I got an email that said, congratulations, you've won. And I was like, what? What did I win?
00:40:08
Speaker
I don't remember ordering this, but I'm so happy. You're like, I don't remember spending $1,000 on a Ray Bolts t-shirt. I don't know if you won, but you got a t-shirt. Yeah, I did. Thank God.
00:40:22
Speaker
Well, he's gay now, so we all want. He is. I actually was reached. I was just looking in ways to contact him a couple of weeks ago because um my but my wife and I, our friends were hanging out and something about Ray Bolts came up. So we just started playing a bunch of old Ray Bolts music. I didn't really know Ray Bolts that much. I don't think I know who Ray Bolts is. But I knew his father-in-law. Casey, turn that game down.
00:40:48
Speaker
Casey, why don't you go ahead and turn it all the way down. Turn the mic off. Turn the knob a little bit. Just know who Ray Bolts is and you are part of a Christian copy. I'm open to experimentation. Forgive me. To the Lord. Lord. I am a life. That was okay. I do know that song. There you go. Okay. Well, you were a gay, their vocal band family.
00:41:16
Speaker
Oh my God. Don't David Phelps me. I know david David Phelps fan in the entire world. I love David Phelps. Absolutely. I love the Gaither vocal band. I love Mark Lowry. I'm so sad he didn't get to fuck dudes in his lifetime because I know he wants to. I know you he made so we don't have Jesse. His mom would always bring up that Mark Lowry was like a second cousin of hers.
00:41:44
Speaker
She she would it broach the subject a lot when we were younger. And we had big dooms in the Jesus Christ world. Wow. ah That's Christian comedy at its peak. Mark, laer truly him. And who was that female comic that mom loved? And the ah funniest joke was that she would go around the neighborhood with her garage door opener and she'd open all the garage door so she could feel powerful.
00:42:12
Speaker
Shondra, um... Shondra. Uh-oh. Shondra. He's speaking in tongues. He's speaking in tongues now. very Sorry, sorry, sorry. Shondra, Shondra, Shondra, Shondra, Shondra. I don't know. She was like a real country. Shondra Pierce. Shondra. Shondra Pierce. Shondra. Oh, okay. I recognize her. I recognize that face. Despite all the blur. She looks like my Mary Kay rep.
00:42:41
Speaker
Yeah, well, okay, speaking of Mary Kay, speaking of Mary Kay, one of my favorite things that I realized as an adult, and by as an adult, I mean like in the last couple years, ah that our mega church pastor's daughter was the president of a pyramid scheme fake jewelry company.
00:43:04
Speaker
Oh, it was um all about selling fake jewelry and a pyramid scheme for God and for Jesus and got my mom roped into it. And I remember that being premier designs. I remember premier designs being a huge part of our childhood. It was. And I did not realize that it was a pyramid scheme until a couple of years ago when I was like, oh, my God, she was in a Jesus pyramid scheme. Did she have? She lost so much money. have No, she did. Um, she would have all these shows at home. And so, which sucked for us. Cause it was clean, clean, clean. And she stressed out and she'd set it up all over the dining room table. And the, she made us clean. There were many, women and there are many nefarious things about it. Uh, one is when I was in seminary or the seminary I went to was across the street from the mega church we grew up in. So it was kind of like.
00:44:02
Speaker
It wasn't their school, but it kind of was. Um, I was working at that megachurch interning and getting paid 300. My check every two weeks was $360. They didn't make very good clasps. Oh, this is legit. Why don't you just cross a piece out? ah that for me yeah Well, when our grandmother died, I like a couple of years ago, since I'm so far away, I didn't get to the house until a few days after she died.
00:44:32
Speaker
And so all of the good jewelry had been taken. yeah All the cousins, they took the real jewelry and all that was left was premier and I took it.
Systemic Church Issues
00:44:42
Speaker
I feel like for most of the premier Memphis client base, that was originally an anklet. Oh my God, Casey, you have a dark brain. Under all that thick gray hair is a dark brain. I love it.
00:44:59
Speaker
So when I was in seminary, not making any money and she knew this, um, she came to my wife and was like, Hey, why don't you sell premiere? You know, it's an E it's a good way for you guys to make money and whatever. And there's like an upfront cost of multiple thousands of dollars. Right? Cause that's how they make the money. So she comes to me, her best friend's son who's in seminary working at her father's church, not making any money.
00:45:28
Speaker
And she was like, yeah, it's going to be so many thousand. I was like, we don't have credit. We don't have money. We can't get in. She's like, Oh, don't worry about it. Like I'll extend the credit to you. So instantly put us in $3,000 of debt, like immediately. And could my wife sell it? Fuck no. Nobody could sell it. Like it was just, it was costing jewelry and she took advantage of us. She absolutely took advantage of us.
00:45:58
Speaker
Uh, but she's quite offering you an opportunity to better yourself. Yeah. That's kind of a glass half empty sort of thing. Yeah. She was really trying to help Angela. I don't know.
00:46:09
Speaker
become a woman, an entrepreneur and you shout all over that. God forbid she give you the gift of ambition. You lived in an area where a woman's only option was to be a stay-at-home mom while their husband went to seminary.
Humor and Identity: Tattoos and Personality
00:46:25
Speaker
She was looking for an opportunity to just take care of this family. Be a province whatever wife. Yeah, province 31 woman. That's right. Casey, I'm so sorry. My wife also started to derail this. One second. Casey. Yeah?
00:46:39
Speaker
Can you turn the game down? What's your deal? What's your deal? You're so strange. You have you have the funniest one-liners. They're dark. theyre And you seen so like you seem like a toddler. You're just happy. Everything in your life makes you happy. And then you say the darkest shit, and you're smiling while you say it. Yeah, there's deep pain. What's going on? Who just feels like such a nice compliment?
00:47:08
Speaker
It is. I mean, you're very entertaining. We've been on for 45 minutes and you just really nailed Casey's a personality. He's like a toddler who loves everything. Then I'll say the darkest shit. I'm fucking dying right now. I'll say the darkest shit. I'm so interested in that, Casey. Where do y'all live? Sam and Casey, where do y'all live? I live in Wichita, Kansas.
00:47:35
Speaker
Oh. I mean Central Massachusetts. Ah, not much better. It's like <unk> out on the fruited plain here. It's better than Kansas. I'm sorry, Casey. What kind of Massachusetts? No one's ever said that that's not a great place to live.
00:47:52
Speaker
Everyone looks like there's ice with rodent genes. Casey, and there's the Casey Witt taking us back. always been like this? Did your mom drink when she was pregnant? Well, what happened? Why are you like this? Yeah, did you barely survive conversion camp? What happened? Yeah, what happened here? what you He got nicked by fetal alcohol syndrome and it worked out great. Yeah, maybe so. He didn't get ya, but it nicked ya. Just enough.
00:48:18
Speaker
I think it was like, it was like fetal or alcohol syndrome, except herbal, alcohol syndrome. Is that a herbal, like when you do your best oracle impressions? Yeah. Yeah. That herbal life was my mom's premiere. Oh, that's. so Well, I was going to say that sucks, but it doesn't suck. At least you had stuff like you can use drinking. You can drink it. Right. Yeah. life I remember she had this like little bottle like it was a little, you know how certain substances have to come in a brown glass bottle.
00:48:47
Speaker
Right, because you don't want it to oxidize. out Yeah, it turns like rancid or something. And it was like mystery goo that she would mix in water every morning. And it was like five hour energy before five hour energy. Yeah, it could be. It's just the chemical fingerprint on my cerebellum. I wake up every every morning to her pouring it up my nose as I was sleeping. Even the way you say cerebellum, I am so ah you are such a mystery to me.
00:49:16
Speaker
He was like i my cerebellum. I love it. I don't know what's happening. You sound like a guy who's got some cerebellums in your. too Yeah. You got a couple of cerebellums on there. I would watch a TV show about you, Casey. I would watch a TV show this one about you. Stop. See, but this is so fucking weird, man. I love how it's turned into you guys interviewing Casey. I think that's hilarious. He's so interesting. Yeah. i see ho a lot sam We need to hear more from Casey. I am wearing pants. Yes. Prove it. Cargo pants, right?
00:49:51
Speaker
Oh, oh, that's not what I was expecting. You see those? Did you see those? I'm a Janssen tail bed kind of guy. I thought you were going to be wearing yoga pants, if I'm honest. I thought it would be leggings. What? I'm open to it. Crocs. Okay. I would love some of those like Lululemon Joe Rogan jeans that really sip into your
00:50:31
Speaker
so now when did you get when did you get to to Pajama jeans.
00:50:41
Speaker
what is two two taoo Oh, tattoo. Oh, God, tattoo. I forgot. I forgot. Y'all are not on the West Coast. We're barely thinking to to. I'm hearing to to like, like poo poo, like, oh, you've been poo poo'd like to get out of here. Yeah, we get it. Yeah. Yeah. When do you see me? All in the actually all in the past year, for the most part. Oh, no. And you don't want to be buried. I bought my tattoo cherry very, very late.
00:51:15
Speaker
Were you like going to parties and stopping before finding you interesting? You were like, I know what I'm going to do. I know how to fix this. No, I think I just had early onset millennial style midlife crisis. I love it, dude. I would have tattoos like crazy. I'm afraid of needles. Same. Pass right out. Me too. I'd pass right out. When I turned 36 this year, like you did, I also looked into tattoos.
00:51:40
Speaker
I just can't decide um what to get. I do have to suffer because when you start getting them at this age, like people ask all the time, like my parents and shit were like, oh, what does that mean to you? I was like, it means nothing. and All my tattoos are from a video game called Bioshock that came out fucking 20 years ago. And I just I i just like I was like,
00:52:05
Speaker
What do I want to do? That. I thought it was cool. It's just I don't know. I like the idea. Here's the thing. This is my this is my feeling about tattoos is it's not always a good idea to get things that are meaningful unless it's like unless it's a regarding dead people or your children because the chance like dead people can't disappoint you and your children still can. You're just saying that the best diagram is a very sad tattoo. Yeah. Yeah. Where that overlaps.
00:52:35
Speaker
That is a sad tattoo. What a sad tattoo. It's a sick tattoo, just like the kids. yeah what But yeah, so i like to me, it's just, I was like, what can I do? that I think it's fun and cool and we'll sat ah will satiate my ah need to hold on to my youth. And and we're all feeling that at 36. We are all feeling that.
00:53:00
Speaker
ah For sure. Can you believe we're going to be 37 soon? Oh my god. I can't even imagine. Casey, that's going to be crazy when we turn 37. So, Sam, I'm going to flip that that on its head. I'm going to make you feel really good about this. I'm going to go back to asking you questions after this question. No, this is real quick. And then I'm done. And I'm actually going to leave after I ask this. okay Okay, so. Yeah, we can turn his camera off.
00:53:21
Speaker
You get, you get a tattoo and you're saying like, I know even my parents are asking me like, what does it mean? And and you seem a little like, oh, it's kind of, it's kind of annoying, but I'm going to flip it on its head. I'm going to say, and I'm going to say this to you. Your parents asked you, Hey, I see you son. I can see, I see you. And I want to know what's meaningful to you. What does that mean? Because my parents,
00:53:49
Speaker
They don't even see me. Oh, I get it. This is a question to go all about you. They don't even see me. They're like, oh, how do I, how do I make this, ah how do I ask a question about somebody but make it about me? And you fucking killed it, Drew. ah That's a 20 window baby. Get out of my room, mom. but I want you to look at that as more of ed a privileged moment.
00:54:10
Speaker
And do that because you are lucky enough that people look at you enough to ask you questions about yourself and that you don't have to wear wigs for money. What were you talking about? I don't have to wear them for money. True. That's your body, your choice. Has anybody complained to your parents about your podcast?
00:54:32
Speaker
that you know of? Funny enough that you say that it just happened. Um, yeah. So, so quick little context. Uh, I was, um, very publicly fired and my family was shunned from the church. I'm so sorry, Grant. I'm so sorry. It is my dog's dinner time and she is crying. So I'm going to go do that while you talk about yourself. But when you get to me, just everyone stopped talking and I'll, I'll fill in.
00:55:03
Speaker
Okay, great deal. Perfect. Great. I can finally get a word in. Hey, do can we like change rooms? So he can't find his way back to this.
The Church's Invasive Policies
00:55:16
Speaker
Um, ends up in the sunken place. So, so yeah. So when, when, when I was fired, we were shunned and when we fired.
00:55:28
Speaker
About a year and a half ago. Okay. So this is your, this was like the catalyst for your, like leaving, which you were in the church. Okay. You tell your story. I'm going to, I have some follow-ups after. Oh yeah. You're fine. You're fine. So, so, um, we were shunned, which was super fun. It's still super fun. Still happens. We still run into people and they literally turn their back to us in public. Are you comfortable talking about why they fired you?
00:55:54
Speaker
Yeah, to some extent for sure. Um, so yeah, we'll, we'll get to all that. But my point is we went through, it's, it's, we were just a scuttle, but around where we live for the last 18 months or so. Well, somebody in Memphis found our podcast and, um, the church world in Memphis, just like the church world in every city is a lot smaller than you think it is. So, um.
00:56:22
Speaker
everyone started calling everybody. And so my wife got very condescending, judgmental texts, offering their support to her because surely she can't agree with me. Um, I was getting texts from people I haven't heard from in forever and they're just like, Hey, Hey man, just checking in. How you doing? So bad, dude. I want that. but But they are obviously like trying to convert me. And I've had that here too. Don't get me wrong. Like there were people who were like, I just want to, I just want to hear your story. And I go sit down with them and I would tell my whole story. And then they'd be like, no, they'd be like, when are you getting back to church? And I was like, what the fuck? Like, what are you talking about? That's not, I don't want to go back to church. And they're like.
00:57:11
Speaker
That breaks my heart. And I was like, that breaks your heart. Like not my my family being abandoned, not like me wanting to die. Like, like that breaks your heart. What the fuck? So, um, yeah, so my former pastor in Memphis, like my last boss in Memphis called my mom last week to offer his, his support to her and, uh, you know,
00:57:37
Speaker
Then my mom called and she's like, what are you saying about me? I was like, no, I'm nothing. I'm actually not saying anything about you. Um, so anyway, it was, it's been cool. So now in Memphis, which we are nowhere near anymore. Um, apparently I'm the new, I'm the new talk of the town. I will say, if you guys, if anyone listening has never been shunned before, if you have a crippling desire to please people,
00:58:06
Speaker
get publicly humiliated and shunned because it like burns that out of you. It's horrifically painful and you might not make it, but if you make it to the other side, you don't give a fuck what people think about you. And that's where I am now. I feel like I connect with that a lot because i I think almost all of my life trajectory was because of how much I cared about the authorities and my life perception of me. So my youth pastor went to Liberty. He brought us down there for the college for a weekend. I'm like, I didn't excel at much, but I did connect to Christianity.
00:58:44
Speaker
in an academic way at a younger age and was like invested. and i I got those, wow, you if you know your stuff. I go, that's all I needed for this to change the course of my entire fucking life. yeah You made me feel good about myself.
00:59:00
Speaker
And I need that. I need the approval from the people I respect and the people in my life that are in authority. So I went so like so hard in that direction. Same here. And that's, that's what the church does to everybody is that the church is all about telling you what you should be. And and then when you fall in line, you're doing great. You're fantastic. And then, but like, they don't, um I know I'm, I'm brushed. There's a broad stroke, but like.
00:59:30
Speaker
with my experience, they didn't really care what was happening in my life, like inside me. They cared how I appeared to other people and they cared, you know, like the church is all about who's in and who's out. said They don't care what happened inside him, but they were very worried about what was happening inside of you, Drew. A ah hundred percent. They were very worried about it.
00:59:52
Speaker
i too The churches are all about who's in and who's out. That's super important. And when we argue about theology, that's what we're arguing about. Are you in? No, you're out. Yeah. 100%. When, when they determined that what I had done and disqualified me from being a pastor, I was out. There was no, I didn't want it. You posted an orgy on OnlyFans, didn't you? Well, I mean, I don't get, I didn't get paid very much. So, and it was all my family.
01:00:23
Speaker
Um, so the the i boys sort of from we're from, we're from Tennessee. But when they, when they, I didn't want to leave my wife and I didn't want to leave. We were, we were, you know, honestly begging for them to help. We believed all the shit they said about us and we were like, Oh, we're so sorry to help us. But we were out. They had already determined, you know, no, no, you're out. And there was no path in.
01:00:50
Speaker
Back in and so which is great. Thank Oprah that they didn't because I can't imagine it on the back door You should have got you should build the back the back way Yeah, I was trying to do a good Casey. I'm really I'm still learning You have obsessed with you obsessed Casey I'm enjoying it for you Great. I think what's interesting it too is like
01:01:18
Speaker
Because of the way things played out, you're going to have to suffer people thinking that you're only out because you were burned by the church and that it's not like authentic it's like that you weren't able to do like the the processing on your own to be like, Oh, that actually like pulled the wool from my eyes and is able to examine my thoughts and my beliefs outside of that bubble. They're going to go, no, you're just angry at it. And once you can let go of that bitterness and the anger,
01:01:50
Speaker
they'll be, they'll be waiting for you. And it's like, it's the, if, you if you left under a bad pretense is you're going to forever live in the shadow, like that shadow of like, well, that's just, oh, it's like a kids who'd say, I hate you mom. When they grant, when you're grounded because he did something wrong, like that's how they look at it.
01:02:10
Speaker
And that's that's absolutely been said to me before. and ah really mom The truth the truth of of the matter is ah COVID changed everything um for our church and it changed everything about the values of our church. So so we weren't able to meet, I was a campus pastor um at a pretty sizable church in our area.
01:02:36
Speaker
and When we weren't able to meet the primary campus, they started shooting everything on site. um Well, shooting people, if you were a master, so what happened was they started doing this online thing and the senior pastor really liked it and he really liked being the guy because we didn't do satellite stuff. Like we all preached at our campuses. Um, and so at that point.
01:03:12
Speaker
they determined, they started putting in multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars into building a live ah production studio. um And they hired two Emmy award-winning videographers who are still on staff. Yeah. I bet they're not even Christians. No, they definitely are. They definitely are. That's a bummer.
01:03:39
Speaker
But, um, but they, they changed all of that. Anybody these days. Right. And then the, uh, and then the, uh, the, the language changed and they started talking about our senior pastor as a brand. And it was no longer about our church. It was about the brand of our church and the brand of this pastor and everything changed.
01:04:03
Speaker
And so we so so not going into too many details about what changed, that's boring. But the point is, as everything began to change, I was insanely unhappy. It wasn't what I signed up for. um They had completely taken any autonomy and authority away from me. And at the same time, I started wrestling with different things in my own beliefs. The way I approached the scriptures, I didn't believe in inerrancy anymore.
01:04:33
Speaker
And I didn't believe in infallibility anymore. And I didn't believe in univocality anymore, but I couldn't talk to them about it. I tried to, but no, we've got a brand to protect. So literally I'd have conversations with a senior leader and they'd be like, Oh, that's really interesting. I don't think we're going to deal with that right now. And I was like, well, I need to deal with it. Um, I remember after Drew's wedding, his big gay wedding.
01:04:59
Speaker
Uh, having a conversation where I came back and I told one of my bosses, Hey, listen, I don't get it. Every, everything in the scripture, like when Jesus and and everything, honestly, almost everything in the new Testament, that's like, don't do this. I completely get it. Like don't be greedy. 100%. You can't love your neighbor. If you're greedy, don't be consumed with lust. 100%. You can't love your neighbor. If you're objectifying them, I get all of that. Don't be gay. Why?
01:05:27
Speaker
You love your neighbor and be gay. Like everything I saw at that wedding was good, except for Drew's jacket. It was ridiculous. everything It was velvet. And we had fried black eyed peas. Everything I saw and the black eyed peas were there. You fried the black eyed peas at your wedding. They have fallen. We did. Yeah. But I said, this is all good. Does that include Fergie? Cause she was never official.
01:05:54
Speaker
ah She just showed up. It's not official. She, but she's always there. yeah She showed up and pissed her pants and left. So, so we forgot about that. But, but I came back and I was like, I was like, everything that was there was good. I don't understand why this isn't okay. Help me. Help me here. And again, it was one of those like, wow, I don't worry about it.
01:06:16
Speaker
So I'm dealing with some like real faith issues here. I'm like, I don't know what's going on. And then i'm I, I fucking hate what the church has turned into. And, um, and it was just, uh, it was a mess. And so really I just melted down. Honestly, I burned out, I melted down. Um, and you know, they, they really.
01:06:45
Speaker
There was something happened in our area. A ton of churches fell apart over scandals, tons in the last like two years, like sex scandals, ah money laundering, stuff like that. And, and so my senior pastor, the brand kept saying every meeting we would have, he would say to everybody, don't fuck this up. Like we're, we're the hope for our city. That's what he kept saying. Our church is it. We're getting it right. Everyone else is getting it wrong.
01:07:15
Speaker
Don't fuck it up. So, so somebody said something they shouldn't have about me. And they immediately thought there's a scandal happening and there wasn't, but immediately they're like, there's a scandal.
01:07:30
Speaker
And that's how they treated me. Like I had already done these without even asking me a question. There was all in their head. They immediately were like, in fact, when they called me in to confront me about this, this rumor that someone said, which wasn't true and never was substantiated. Um, they, the first thing out of his mouth was you're messing up everything I've built.
01:07:53
Speaker
It wasn't, god hey, what's going on with you? Where's the, you know what I mean? Like, how are you? Like, is this true? There's none of that. It was you're messing up everything I've built.
01:08:06
Speaker
Um, and so anyway, ultimately the the primary reason I was fired was I was critical of my, uh, bosses. And, um, in this investigation that they did, um, they, I, I, I gave them my computer to like look through basically to look through this, this one conversation. And in this conversation, I was very critical of them. Again, nothing I didn't say to their face.
01:08:35
Speaker
Um, and that further set them off. And so when we came in, my wife and I came in to get fired. Um, ohoh did your wife work there too? Or were they just like, you have to witness the, you got your fire. They hired her just to fire her out of spite. Now here's, here's the really, this is one of the most fucked up parts. So I gave them my computer and I was like, Hey, look, the things you're saying that happened didn't happen. Um, and so here, here's the, here's my computer.
01:09:05
Speaker
Look at the text messages between me and this person and you'll see like there's nothing there. So here, and when I gave it to him, I said, Hey, I have private conversations with me and my wife on there. You're not going to look at those, right? And they were like, no, we definitely won't. They did. Um, and so they called her in to berate her about our private sex life because we talked about our sex life because we're married and we can do that.
01:09:33
Speaker
Um, it was like, but hey honey, where does it go again? And she's like, yeah, there's multiple holes. I'll help. Exactly. Uh, I always put it in the wrong way. I don't know which one. I'm sorry. So they didn't approve of, of our private sex life. They didn't approve of how we argued via text, which is fucking crazy. It's none of your business. That's so crazy. It wasn't very funny, Grant. It wasn't funny.
01:10:02
Speaker
It was your arguments. You didn't use any serious. Yeah. Nothing was in French. So it was, it was, it was nuts. And they, um, I can't even say the things they said to us on the podcast. It was horrific, the things they said. Um, and so, yeah, so we were, I was like, I, and I was so broken down.
01:10:26
Speaker
that I was just like, okay, I guess I ain't, like they were like, you guys are wolves in sheep's clothing. I was like, I guess we are. It's a real spank me harder daddy situation. and And so I was like, I guess we are like whatever you guys need. I'm so sorry. I repent. I'll change. And like, we're both crying because they just beat the shit out of us. Yeah. And like it psychological warfare. And so we're like, I'm so sorry. ah And so they're like, you know, we have to have a meeting in front of the church and tell them all this. I was like, well, first off, but we don't have to tell them anything.
01:10:54
Speaker
No, no, no, no, no. I said, you don't have to tell them anything about my wife. You can tell them
Shunning and Its Effects on Family
01:11:01
Speaker
about me. You can tell them why you're firing me. She doesn't work for you. Um, and so I was like, look, let me come to the meeting. I'll take full responsibility. Cause again, I'm just broken down. Like I'm like, whatever you want. And, um, they wouldn't let me, they wouldn't let me come to the meeting. And so at the meeting, they tell people, I wasn't sorry. I'm not repentant. And.
01:11:23
Speaker
And then they tell this banana story, um, to people and a lot of people walked out and called us and we're like, what the fuck just happened? and I was like, yeah, I don't know. And they had three more meetings about us, uh, for three weeks, they met on Wednesday night and just talk shit about us. They told people that we need to suffer.
01:11:45
Speaker
And to shun us and have nothing to do with us. Um, you know, that's in the Bible, right? Second opinions, chapter three. It's so crazy. Like, yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, they no, they just, they just, they really fucked us up. And, uh, you know, the the whole point of the shunning, what they said was we will suffer. And then that suffer will lead us to repent. Yeah. sanctify you If you believe that.
01:12:15
Speaker
guys, it's been 18 months. No one's talked to us. You're not going to check and see if it worked. Like no one wants to check and see like, did you repent? You have to come groveling back. They just threw us away. They didn't, they wanted you out and they sold it as hard as they had to, to justify it to the flock. Well, let me tell you why they wanted us out. Uh, and the, why they had to crush me in the process. They were in the middle of a multimillion dollar financial campaign.
01:12:42
Speaker
And the first thing that they asked the people closest to us, like our best friends are still in the church, when they called to check on me after a week, the first thing out of their mouth was, do you know what his plans are? Seeing a plan to church? Like they were afraid I was going to fuck up their money that I was going to start a church. Can you do me a huge favor and start all these people? Just do it.
01:13:09
Speaker
I have thought about making a fake website for a church, you know what I mean? And like sending it to them and being like, hey, if you guys could help us, that'd be great. Have y'all ever seen that porn? There's a whole porn website about Mormons. Probably. I probably have. No, but they wear more. They wear all the Mormon underwear and then they bang in it. So it's not. It's. It's called Mormon. It's gray area porn. It's gray area. Boys is with a Z. Boys is with a Z. And all the elders come in.
01:13:39
Speaker
Why Mormon underwear, they don't have sleeves anymore. They just made a determination that they can be sleeveless. Anyway,
01:13:48
Speaker
anyway so yeah, so that, that horrific experience, um, brought us together and it, and it sped up like, uh, so, so my wife and I, again, we were already dealing with a lot of these things and then getting.
01:14:05
Speaker
just absolutely wrecked by the church. Because every church I've been a part of had fucked our family over in some way. And I was just like, you know what, we're going to find a better one. There's a good one out there. We just got to find it. um And then I was like, Oh, there isn't one.
01:14:22
Speaker
This happens everywhere. Everyone I know in ministry is hurt by the church, everyone. And I don't mean like, Oh, they hurt my feelings. I mean, like they devastated you. Um, and so it really just made us go, this isn't good for us. This isn't healthy. And yeah, the deconstruction continued from there. And, um, how old are your kids?
01:14:45
Speaker
Drew, how old are my kids? That was such an extreme change of subject. How old are your kids? Well, he talked about how devastating it was, and I'm thinking about how- It's okay. i'm I know how old they are. I'm an uncle, and I know how old they are. yeah so i'll so Go ahead, Drew. How old are they? ah and Thank you so much for letting for that question. Are you on your phone?
01:15:08
Speaker
The, no, I'm playing with my premier designs, getting it ready. He has their, he has their ages and birthdays written down. He's just, let me pull him but he's pulling up. Okay. Max is the oldest. and Well, we don't name the names of children on this podcast. Okay. I'm sorry. and Um, I'll change it around cams.
01:15:29
Speaker
scam is the oldest and he is He'd on September 1st. In fact, he just turned. Oh only 10 days away from September 11th 13 14 14 14 what I said he was originally due on September 11th I was so excited because I had planned it when we conceived him. Yeah i was like he was Now now now, yeah, but A birthday you'd never forget. All right, so 14, you got that right. What about? See, did you hear that, Grant? Casey said a birthday you'd never forget. I'm so intrigued. Casey, what the fuck? Casey, can you just crank that gain up for me? Is your wife okay? do you I want to know your family life. Okay. How many lives do you have, Casey? Yeah, tell us. In Kansas, you can have three, right?
01:16:18
Speaker
I think that's, you can't own a home without less than three, right? That's guns. ah Yeah. Yeah. It's easy to mix up, but yeah. that sure You can also marry your guns in Kansas. So it does get confusing. So I just have to find one that, that really speaks to me on that level yet. Our oldest, a gun, our oldest is 14 and the twins, which are 12.
01:16:44
Speaker
Correct. Right. Well, and then my youngest is obviously Drew would be 10. Well done. drew You named really after Drew is named one of them. Yeah. My twin boy is named after Drew. His middle name is the same as Drew's. It's not a good one. It's not a good one. And then I do feel really bad.
01:17:07
Speaker
and i feel like you did that so that i would pay his way through college or something because i feel so bad that just one know gets their way paid through though Well, the other one's a girl. Why is she going to college? You know, exactly. That's true. She's my most talented one. You feel bad about that. Poor guy. Little Hampton. Were your kids like, well they especially the oldest teenager, most of his life has been involved in church. Was he like, this is weird? Or was he like, yeah, fuck that. i Fuck what they did to you, dad. So the so the investigation was two weeks long?
01:17:43
Speaker
Um, so I long time for people who ah don't have their private investigators license. Well, and they didn't hire a third party. Like this was just them trying to figure it out. Um, and it was, it was pretty rough, but that during that time I didn't eat. I slept 18 to 20 hours a day. Um, I just wasn't functioning but because it was just like my whole life's falling apart here and I'm completely out of control. Um,
01:18:12
Speaker
And so, you know, my kids were like, what is going on? And we're like, we're just taking some time off. Uh, dad's not feeling good. Um, my wife, I don't know what drug she was on, but she held it together during those two weeks. Um, it was insanity. And so i when I was probably, probably probably had a little bit to do with that.
01:18:37
Speaker
But my, my mom happened to be here when I got fired, um, which was amazing because my wife and I both at that point just, you know, I was already broken in a million pieces than she was. And so my mom took care of the kids for like a week while we just, again, didn't eat and just slept all day. yeah And so my kids were like, what is going on? And so I had to tell them like, I was, I, you know, they're gonna,
01:19:07
Speaker
figure it out or all their friends are from church. So like someone's going to say something. Um, so we just told them, I just said that, um, there were some things that dad was supposed to do that he didn't do. And there were some things that dad wasn't supposed to do that he did. And, um,
01:19:29
Speaker
And that goes for dad's bosses too. And we can't agree on what those things are. And because we can't agree on what those things are, dad can't work there anymore. Um, and the, that wasn't a huge shift for them. They were like, so we don't have to go to church all day Sunday. Dope. Like they, they had no problem with that at all. Um, they quickly adjusted. So you didn't raise them. Right. Oh, that's all I heard.
01:19:58
Speaker
Well, the issue was the shunning extended to my children. Um, the, and my kids had been signed up to go to church camp and they took them off the list. Um, cause we were going to send them. They were excited. They were going with their friends. Um, and they didn't tell us by the way, someone had to, we had to send someone to find out if they had, if they were still okay to go and they were not. Um, collective punishment.
01:20:27
Speaker
Yeah, and and and then like, you know, my daughter had a birthday party with one of her closest friends and the parents didn't want us there. They didn't want us to drop her off because they didn't want us around the house. Yeah, that big that's like cult like at that point. It's just too close to the cult like. Yeah. And and so, you know, and then my kids have seen us be shunned.
01:20:52
Speaker
and um And they've noticed people who were in our lives, like we've been at Disney World with our kids and people have literally turned their backs off. Brag, okay. yeah About the shunning for Disney. One of us on this podcast can afford Disney World. Yeah. I live right down the street. I don't pay, I just, do you sneak in. Okay, just well that's not a brag. Saying you live that close to Disney World, that sucks, I'm sorry. um So the ah so they they've experienced it. And so the way we've explained it to people, because there's people in our lives that aren't in our lives,
01:21:22
Speaker
who are around all the time. So the way we've explained it to our kids is we call them churchy people. What we mean by that is we said there are people that were in our lives that love their beliefs more than they love people. And when their beliefs don't agree with what a person is doing, they will always choose what they believe over that person.
01:21:47
Speaker
So they'll walk away from a person so they can, they can feel like they're right. Like they're doing the right thing. Yeah. And so, so now my kids use that language. Like again, we were, uh, we were at at Epcot, sorry, Bragg, uh, like a couple of weeks ago and we ran into someone. He lives there. He goes, he goes multiple times a week. He goes to Disney world for lunch. now yeah do Ever since he got fired, you don't even have a job. at about log flis I have, I have, um, but, but just a couple of weeks ago, there was somebody we haven't seen in a year and a half. And, uh, someone we used to see all the time and they turn their backs and my kids were like, what's up? And then they turned to me and they're like, they're a churchy person, aren't they? I was like, that's exactly right. But what, what really pisses me off is like, they will say they, they internalize it. Like I've said a million times is not about you. This is about dad.
01:22:46
Speaker
And honestly, it's not about dad. It's about that person. It's about, um, it is, but it's not about you. And they still say, they'll say things like they'll think of somebody and they'll go, I haven't seen so-and-so in so long. Do they hate us? And I have to say, no one hates you. No one hates you. Only God hates you. They can't exactly, they can't help but internalize it. Um, and so yeah, I don't. I don't know why we would ever go back to a place like that shouting is a funny thing because it's like it's also don' I know it's not everybody's
Church Changes During COVID
01:23:20
Speaker
experience but like um the church that I grew up in was very much like ah
01:23:26
Speaker
Hey, we meet on Sunday. We all shake hands. We say, how are you, brother? You doing well? Great to hear. But nobody was really involved with anybody outside of the church. Like it was like a very protected space. And like, you know, you weren't going over to somebody's house for dinner afterwards because we did the church thing. Now we're, you know, we're onto our normal lives. And I feel like shunning is one of those things that like it gives people permission.
01:23:55
Speaker
and validation to like not get involved. It's like, it that looks messy and I don't want to do it. as I try, i'm I'm doing my thing. I'm, uh, you know, getting a second line of credit on my house. So, um, you know, I'm just gonna. Yeah. way and And it's hard to, to it's, it's hard to like, uh, you know, I wouldn't want to talk to me either. Like if I were in their shoes and I had heard the things that were said, like, I don't want to touch that.
01:24:23
Speaker
I don't want to get involved. Like, like that's awkward. I don't want to get involved. Um, so it's hard to tell, like, are they shunning me? Like, like there's certain people where I'm like, is this shunning me or is this you just doing what a normal person would do? Which is like, Oh shit, I'm gonna go to the other aisle. It's weird now. It's weird now. I don't want to do so the same way that like, if I'm in the grocery store with my wife and she sees someone from high school, she's like, I need to get the fuck out of here immediately.
01:24:49
Speaker
like that's exactly right yeah that's exactly right now there are certain people you're like okay i get it got a message thank you it's funny to like thinking about ah like hearing your story you When you started talking about like covid time period and stuff and how like the church changed, you know, like I mean I feel like everybody's mind goes straight to like Oh, they started doing the faith over fear thing and they buckled down on like this weird American Christian conservatism, you know, that's yeah that political above religious but like it's this it may be it may be grosser
01:25:28
Speaker
like yeah Yeah, do this branding. i i could I know how to deal with that. That wasn't this. I mean, we were super pro mask. We were super don't go back to church. Um, that, that was absolutely our, our church, but.
01:25:42
Speaker
It became something even more insidious and, um, something that ultimately, I mean, you know what they say about money, right? Like money doesn't change you. It just reveals more of who you are. I want to be revealed so bad. No way. I'd be a monster. I would be in jail. fact That's what happened to our, the leaders of that church.
01:26:06
Speaker
Is, is they became very wealthy and I mean, you know, the, the financial campaign was insane and it just revealed what they really wanted. They want to be a brand. They want to be this thing and like their stuff's on point. Their branding is amazing. The videos are amazing. The music is fantastic. Uh, but what makes me feel good is that our stupid little podcast that drew shoots in his drag room and I shoot in the corner of my bedroom.
01:26:35
Speaker
Uh, get way more views, um, than, than any of the stuff they put out. And the petty side of me is like, fuck you guys. We did it. yeah Um, so that's all good. I can, adapt so that I I was like, it's almost like I started a church and did it better. It's pretty sick. That's how it feels.
01:26:57
Speaker
But, I mean, Drew really did it. I'm just tag, I'm just on his coattails. I'm on his gay coattails. And you know what, Grant, you're welcome. Now, listen, and Sam and Casey, if you don't mind, I'm going to take this next question for Grant. If you don't, thank you so much for, for allowing me this opportunity. Casey, go ahead and hit that gain now for me. If you don't mind. If you don't mind Casey, just hitting that real quick. Can't really hear you. Grant.
01:27:22
Speaker
I appreciate you being so vulnerable on this podcast with us, the hosts of this podcast. And I want to say, I want to ask you this. I know there's so much hurt involved in this story, but tell me about the good things. What came out of it for the better? Start with your brother.
01:27:42
Speaker
um
01:27:46
Speaker
That's not where I'd like to start. That might be the most authentic question that's been asked tonight. So thank you, Drew. for just hard hitting journalism. I love that. Thank you so much. I don't know if you're being funny or not, but, um, truly there's it's so new grant incredible things that, well, there's so many incredible things that came out of it. Truly. I mean, um, doing, doing twin you window with my brother has been Like a life-changing experience. And drew Drew has been working hard at ah his craft for many, many, many years. And he grinded it out at Bar Redacted in Chicago. And because of a lot of crazy things in COVID, he starts this YouTube channel and has grown it to a juggernaut. um We went to ah RuPaul's, ah the DragCon.
01:28:39
Speaker
Um, in l LA comic con, but no one has a relationship with their dad. That's basically. tracked on Yeah. That's like half
Finding Support Outside the Church
01:28:48
Speaker
a comic con probably too. Um, but, but when we were, when we were there, um, I mean, Drew and Alexis, the IMH O booth, I could not believe one, the constant line they had of people wanting to meet them.
01:29:05
Speaker
But all the big drag queens, like all, all of them were still stopping by just to say hi to him. So drew built this absolute juggernaut. And then I lost absolutely everything. And then, you know, he was like, do you want to do this thing? And it's, and it's been incredible. Thank you, Grant. That made me very uncomfortable. So the, yeah, so thank you so much.
01:29:33
Speaker
It we got our start because I had already built like an online audience and so most of it still is is that but it definitely Is helping get us out to like a larger audience by already having a little bit of an audience also, I want to say that one of the things that I talk even when I'm reviewing RuPaul's track race on a fucking YouTube show while wearing a wig like I love talking about my trauma. Okay. And so the audience was already aware of like my childhood and, and you know, even though I've only had this show for four or five years, like there's been a lot of back and forth with my family. And so I think people were just queer people, especially we're just so excited and are so excited to have a straight man who was so
01:30:25
Speaker
deeply involved in this religion for their entire life to Come away like to the was it the falls from the eyes was about scales scales scales for the scales to fall from his eyes and for him to be like We were wrong the whole time and you were right you you're valid. You're a valid person We're all so desperate to fucking hear that so I think as much as ah Grant hurts the Christian community with everything he says. And it really just spits in God's face. He's also just showing up is so healing to the queer community and it is so meaningful. And I'm speaking in generalities, I think, because I'm uncomfortable. But for me as well, like this is just this last year. I can't remember when I found out. Oh, I found out in January.
01:31:25
Speaker
So this last almost year of everything has just completely changed my life um because i I never had anyone on my side before. I never had anyone in my family completely love me. Like, love every part about me. There was always that caveat of, but, you know, yeah you will be in hell.
01:31:53
Speaker
And we had a cat who really liked you and she ran away. So what was her name? Her name was Judy Garland. She got her head bit off by our dog. And so then we got a second cat and I named her Judy Garland. I didn't, I didn't come out yet. By the way, I was a teenage boy naming cats, Judy Garland. She died of cancer. She did dive cancer. That was sad. Anyway. Um, I don't know. I.
01:32:21
Speaker
It's so important, and let me talk to you straight people. It's so important that as you are deconstructing and as you are speaking to one another about your experiences and supporting one another, you just showing up in queer spaces, you just showing up for the queer community and saying like, God, I'm so sorry you went through that. like i i'm And I'm so sorry for my part in it. That is so fucking healing. like the That is...
01:32:53
Speaker
Yeah, it's something a lot of us queer people are missing in our own families, in our own, you know, I don't talk to anyone else in my family. It's just Grant. And I mean, I would talk to Amanda, but she's kind of boring. What would she say, you know? um And having my brother there along the way as I try and figure out, you know, what my relationship with my mom is like and how can we fix this and what, you know, what needs to be done Just having someone else be there to say like, you know, you're valid. What happened to you was real. Even at 40, sorry, age reveal, even at 40. We finally hit it. I know. You guys. It's so. Are you just editing this? No, no absolutely not. Straight through all the way through. It's panning now, baby. Yeah, it's so.
01:33:50
Speaker
hey I just sound like a broken record. It's so healing this entire year. you know the I always thought, and I said this for you years, and I'm sure if there was some and psychotic fan that went back and watched all of our IMHO videos, I'm sure I've said it multiple times on the show, I always thought Grant would grow out of it. And not to say that the belief is like a grow out thing, but I knew he would make it happen. I knew it. I knew it was happening. I i didn't know how long it would take. you know i Unfortunately, it took 20 years, but I knew he would grow out of it. He is so smart and so kind, and that kindness, that genuine concern for other people was not something anyone in the church had ever shown me.
01:34:39
Speaker
And i I knew that he had that. How can he be in that world but have that kindness? He's going to get out of it eventually. I'm sorry that it was so painful and it took that for him to get out of it. Like I hate that he had to go through that. But I wasn't exactly surprised when I got a text from his wife um My father-in-law died a couple days before Christmas last year um and Fred Armisen killed him. I don't know if that's something that we need to say. but Murder or a manslaughter thing? Well, we were at a Fred Armisen comedy show and then we come home and he's on the floor dead. Explain that, Fred Armisen. Explain that. Exactly. Murder is hard to prove. But we did get an extra week in the Airbnb. It was beautiful. Anyway, so...
01:35:35
Speaker
So i had i I had been in touch with her only like, hey, just, you know, we're going through this right now, whatever, and and she's being so supportive. And I will say,
01:35:47
Speaker
Growing up, being adult, the only person that truly showed me like unconditional love all the time was Angela, was Grant's wife, which is another reason why I thought they're not gonna be in this forever. She is the kindest, most empathetic. She will bend over backwards. She will cut her arms off so you can have them. like She is just so kind. and Like when anything in the world was happening that was like anti-gay, like the Chick-fil-A, get in line and buy chicken so faggots can't have chicken or whatever the fuck that was. That's literally what the banner said, like a word for word. It was like, was they're trying to eat the chicken, we need the strays to eat all the chicken. We were a little wordy for a catchphrase.
01:36:36
Speaker
Well, please, they're not known for their marketing. Actually, they are. I do love their billboards. Anyway, so the, you know, that day my dad's posting a picture of himself in line on Facebook and he's like, fuck them faggots or whatever. And then he didn't even eat it. He bought it and threw it away. He wiped his ass with it. He didn't even throw it away. He threw it at a gay person. That's fucked up. We call that throwing it away when you're in Tennessee. Oh, because we're operating the garbage. You're throwing it away. Because you're throwing it towards more garbage. ok Right, right, right, right, right, right, right. first angel was the one Angela the one that texts me, even while being ah a youth pastor's wife, which is not great, and she'll text me, and just, are you okay? I hope you're doing okay today. I love you.
01:37:25
Speaker
you know
Family Reconnection and Healing
01:37:26
Speaker
like So I knew eventually they'd make it out. And so when she texts me about my father-in-law, she's like, Grant, we' we're actually we've had a really hard year. We've gone through a lot. It's not my story to tell.
01:37:40
Speaker
um I'll you know, your brother needs to tell you and My first thought was like they're out. I know it They're out and I'm talking to like my husband about it. I'm i talk Christian version of out Yeah, yeah truly came out of the closet. But like I don't know. What is ah a church prayer closet came out of the price? lot Thank you so much and Alone I hope because sometimes that gets weird in church, too.
01:38:07
Speaker
Prayer closets? Whoa, Sam. Whoa. Sam. Let's handle zetdie one trauma at a time. What does it even mean? Hey, Casey, you're a groomer, right? Knob for me real quick if you don't mind. Yeah, Casey's got mine. Just turn that up just a little bit. Thank you so much. Okay, go ahead. i And I was telling my therapist about it, and everyone's telling me, don't get too excited. Don't get too excited. He could have cancer. I was like, ah, fuck.
01:38:34
Speaker
ah You're right and then when he told the story it was a horrible story as you heard and That felt awful, but I was so Relieved that it finally happened and I God this sounds so dramatic I just I Didn't have a family. I but i wasn't yeah in touch with my family and I Yeah, Grant. So anyway, so we started talking and Grant and Angela, I was like, y'all just need to get out of Florida. So I flew them out to l LA just to spend like a long weekend with us. And it was the first time I'd ever been around a family member and just fully was able to be myself. There was no caveat. There was no worry that I was going to say something to offend you know and lose their their support or their love.
01:39:28
Speaker
Um close it was just an open. Yeah, it's very kind It's a dry heat. It's a dry heat. It's a dry heat guys. It's really um So listen what i'm saying is if you're in church get out. It's so much more fun It's so fun. Imagine grant leaves the church reconnects Gets to drag con and goes. Oh, this is worse than I thought yeah he because hes right back in He goes home and starts saying i have I have said to Grant a couple times, like, you're not going to go back, right? Like, this isn't going to make you change your mind. you That would devastate me. There was a moment ah where ah something happened with my wife where, again, someone from our past was awful. And I was i was trying to tell Drew about it or something, like something to have with Angel. I don't exactly remember how it worded it. And that's the first thing Drew said. He goes, oh, is she regretting it? Does she want to go back to church?
01:40:28
Speaker
I was like, what? I'm so terrified. No, we're not going back. Yeah. We're in the boats. Okay, Kamala, we're not going back. We're not going back. We're not going back. Don't come. Say don't come. Do your Kamala say don't come. Don't come. Okay, hang on. Well, I got to get into it.
01:40:52
Speaker
i Don't come. No, that that was George W. Bush. I'm sorry. I'll work on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's pretty good, though. Drew, I feel like we haven't gotten any of your story, which feels homophobic. You know, I feel like... Yeah. Sorry. My story's boring. You did. You went to Christian College. I don't want to keep you guys all night. I went to Christian College. Yeah, I'll give you cliff notes. I'll give you cliff notes. I went to Christian College
01:41:25
Speaker
hoping it would change me instead. You changed them. Hallmark movie, done. Yeah, they're still there. They're still killing. Yeah, they're definitely still there. They're definitely still there. um No, I, I was, it was actually in that Christian college that helped kind of develop my um deep sex addiction that I, um because we come from a family where you don't do emotions, you don't talk about emotions. Don't do that. Ignore that. Just fuck.
01:41:52
Speaker
You just fuck. That's exactly right. um So I was like an active sex addict for like 12, 15 years. Horrible, horrible way to live. um And that was kind of my that was how my trauma presented itself. And so I wasn't even really able to like, I i go to school, i I get sick, and I have to like, not with sex addiction, you don't get sick from sex addiction, you get sick, you know? know i am with the sickness sick I got strep, in fact, I had to leave school, and I ended up transferring to Western Kentucky just to like, get out of the Christian of it all.
01:42:32
Speaker
And that's when I came out by the Corvette museum. I said, I'm proud and I'm gay. And these cars are low to the ground. Kentucky is just the most progressive. just Well, granted is I moved to Louisville. I became a special ed teacher. I moved to Louisville for a couple of years and did that. And then I moved to Chicago and lived there for 13 years. Um, and I was a special ed teacher for like six years there and then started doing drag and.
01:43:01
Speaker
The pandemic killed a lot of people really made my life so much better. i If we could have another one. ah you're you're That's your full-time thing and you don't teach anymore? That's crazy. No. That's awesome. I love teaching like a million years ago. I love teaching like in 2017,
01:43:20
Speaker
I think. Oh, before it got awful with COVID. I'm just getting into it actually. Why? I mean, but what a beautiful choice. it was It's just really hard. it was real I worked with kids with severe disabilities, so I got beat up a lot. i got People would bite me. I i wiped a lot of butts. I don't wipe butts. I'm an adjustment counselor, which is like a school social worker. he teach Oh, yeah. Then you go to hate. I get it. I got called a bitch-ass N-word about 17 times today by a five-year-old. so
01:43:53
Speaker
Do you deserve it? Honestly, after an hour and 42 minutes with you, I get it. I see his point. Yeah. I see his point. We can't say that, but we want to. Yeah, we want to. My brother's trying to say. Nobody can issue a pass. i Yeah, exactly. And then a couple of years ago. This is my sanctification process now. This is the moment. A couple of years ago, ah I got gay married and Grant ah i Okay, I got to be honest with you. Yeah, it's not real marriage, obviously, because God doesn't like it. But ah I got we were thinking about moving to L.A. And so we were like, well, let's go ahead and get married. I've been with my husband for like a million years. So it was like, let's just go ahead and do it. And Grant, I invited my family except for my dad. I did not invite him. um Just didn't listen. I didn't want any but pirate or fudge packer jokes to ruin the ceremony. So you know I allowed them to call in.
01:44:51
Speaker
I don't know if I've ever said this to you because I think you not inviting dad obviously was good for you and everyone involved. But I also think it was good for him like he wasn't gonna come. Like he was gonna make it about him in some way. Yeah. And there was like a kindness on your part towards him that I'm sure he doesn't even realize where you're like I'm saying no for you. And I didn't mean it kindly.
01:45:19
Speaker
I did not mean it kindly. and feel like That's the equivalent of like when ah you get fired and you're like, I didn't get fired. I quit. Like you gave him that. Okay. My first job. Yeah.
01:45:31
Speaker
Grant and I worked at a place called Marble Slap, which is Cold Stone. It's just Cold Stone, but this franchise didn't take off. Shut up, Grant. Just shut up. But it's like Cold Stone. It's a big marble. But we're very, very thin, very skinny. And so the ice cream is hard. Thank you. And I hated doing it. And so I went to my boss, who was a monster. And I think he's dead, I'm hoping, in my mind. Anyway,
01:45:58
Speaker
He was the worst. He died in an ice cream accident. He was a really bad guy. My parents said that I could quit because I had show choir, okay? And show choir's not gonna show choir itself. So I went to this grown adult man as like a 15-year-old, and I was like, hi, Mr. Ice Cream. I'm gonna put in my two weeks notice, because I have to focus on show choir. And he goes, well, you can't quit, because you're fired. And I was like, oh, okay.
01:46:27
Speaker
ah Do you want me to finish? Should I finish? I just got here. Should I do my shift? And he was like, no, you're fired. Get out of here. I was thrilled. It was a dream come true. I was thrilled. I was trying to be respectful with this. Right. Hey, I'm going to go walk on Sunshine. Whoa. Whoa. You're such a monster. I'm glad it's business shit. Yeah, he sucks. Anyway, but Grant, I invited the family and.
01:46:57
Speaker
I don't, I have my moments where I think, not Grant, but obviously like with my mom and just how weird it's been, I go back and forth on whether or not I regret inviting her, to be quite honest. Not that she was like rude or anything, just her, her quiet- She held her Bible the whole time, which is weird.
01:47:20
Speaker
She clutched her pearls. Her mexico, devotional Bible. Yeah. Yeah, I was not in your head thinking about it because she's like that presence is unsettling. Yes. Yes. It's like a fucking poltergeist in the corner. Yeah, it's something I'm constantly considering. Like, do I need to to like not touch like polter Christ? And I would. I'd do a lot more to polter Christ than that. Remember, I was a sex addict in my 20s. OK. Am I right, fellas?
01:47:50
Speaker
Um, no, but then at the wedding we, so what we decided to do, because we'd been together at like for like 13 years at this point. So this wedding was more of a tax write off. Okay. And so we were at this table and we got married during dinner. So marriage that you guys fought so hard for. We did it. Um,
01:48:13
Speaker
But the person who married us, she's kooky. She would get up and she'd like, we would do the first part of the ceremony or the service, what do you call it? The marriage. Ceremonies. Yeah, that's what most people call it. And then we'd have appetizers, then we'd pass apps.
01:48:32
Speaker
And then we'd do something else and then we'd eat dinner and then we'd sit up, do something else and we'd have dessert. So it was just like a kind of, everyone's just kind of chatting. We would have people sporadically stand up to speak and it was just like a really fun kind of casual thing. And Grant stood up and I was like, I don't know. I object. Yeah. I flipped the table. Like we already did it.
01:48:59
Speaker
no dead yeah too lucky I signed the paper. No, you know, when we were younger, we had I tried to broach the subject and I had sent him a documentary that was explaining why all the homosexuality stuff is wrong and and it's it's made up and they the church has used it and whatever. And the conversations never went my way. And so it had been a long time since Grant and I had had any sort of conversation about how we felt about gay people. The last thing I remember talking to him about was he had a lesbian couple who wanted to join the church and he loved them, but they just can't. And I was,
Questioning Faith and Beliefs
01:49:41
Speaker
it, so that's what I'm thinking. That's what's in my head is that that exists. And then Grant stands up and gave like the nicest, sweetest speech. He cried like a
01:49:54
Speaker
faggot. I was going to say it. I can say it. I can say it. I was really mad. He was so mad. I was getting married that he cried. Fucking hate this. But that's why I was like, yeah, something's happening. Something has shifted. Like I felt it. Like I knew something was shifting. The Lord is moving ah out of his life. I think God opened the door. He moved away. Getting a plane ticket.
01:50:24
Speaker
Anyway, but yeah. He went to go get milk. I have not seen him since. He did not come back. Bless his heart. But yeah, like that was the, and Grant, correct me if I'm wrong, but you've said like my wedding was and was kind of a big push. Yeah, it was a huge catalyst where like one of the things, we so we had a we had a live stream earlier today and one of the things we talked about was like in my church,
01:50:51
Speaker
We, we were like cool with Halloween, which I said, that's a trick evangelicals do where they pick an issue that doesn't fucking matter yeah to appear like, like, Oh, we're cool. But then when it comes to the gay people, they just don't talk about it. Like they can table that because we're still cool though. We believe in Halloween. And so my, that's how my church, my last church always was, was they were like, yeah, I don't know. There's a lot of stuff going on.
01:51:21
Speaker
you know, theology around gays, but yeah that's complicated and they just wouldn't deal with it. And after Drew's wedding, I was like, I can't just not deal with it anymore. who Um, and, and it was, uh, yeah, it was a big, it was a big, big moment because it wasn't just that moment. It wasn't just like what I believed about had, um, Mario kart 64.
01:51:46
Speaker
Grant, what the fuck? What is happening right now? What is happening? I win! I win the podcast! Fuck you guys! I win the podcast! I win the podcast! I don't know what that was. I've never said that. Casey, do you know what that was? It was his iPhone. His iPhone does things when his hands do stuff. I don't know what I did. Do the thumbs up. You could do the thumbs up. Yeah, I did the thumbs up earlier.
01:52:15
Speaker
I don't know. no Anyway, for the people who are listening, it's. ah Oh, sorry. We saw where we're not fireworks all over Grant's screen and faded to dark. You could see his silhouette. It it was a good looking silhouette. It was dramatic. It was just fireworks everywhere. Yeah. But but that that moment wasn't just like about theology around gay people. That moment extended into um Am I right about what is good? You know what I mean? Like, and it led to my youngest, um, never got baptized. He always wanted to fuck. He's going to hell, dude. That sucks for you. Yeah. Well, no, no, no, no, no. I got it. When he's in bed. But, but one of the reasons why he never did was I was really dragging. Scared of water.
01:53:09
Speaker
Well, no, i I was starting to be like, this isn't a fear of water I'm going to have my little boy. I'm going to look him in the eye and be like, you deserve to go to hell because God loves you so much. But if you say, why isn't he if you say these words, I'll put you in water.
01:53:27
Speaker
You're everything's fine. Um, and I was just like, this isn't good. Like what, what we're teaching our kids isn't good. Like it made, as a child, I was terrified all the time. And I thought I was a piece of shit that deserved hell all the time. Um, and so a lot of bad stuff to be fair. i did Yeah. I recall one story.
01:53:48
Speaker
Yeah, thank you, Casey. Hey, hit that gain for me, Casey, if you don't mind. Just hit that gain. I just couldn't. ah so So it really, it wasn't just about like what I believe about gay people. It was really like, is is any of this good? And for certain, some of it is. ah But ah the underlying theology of you have a God who loves you so much that he'll fucking torture you forever.
01:54:17
Speaker
If you don't say the right words, I was like, really, I've said this on our podcast multiple times. There was a moment where I remember thinking, am I a better dad than God is? Like thinking about like, I would never abandon my children because they don't want to, they don't like me today. You know, like I would never, they're, they're still my kids. Like I would never.
01:54:41
Speaker
turn my back on them because they didn't return my calls. You know what I mean? Like I just, and I was like, man, am I a, am I a better dad than God? And that was like, okay, maybe I don't understand how this works. What, what is good here? Um, and then once his people kick the living shit out of you, you go, oh, not, not much. And, and there was a thing after you got jumped out.
01:55:06
Speaker
Well, let me say one more thing. I know we need to go, but like, when I, when the people I've talked to after getting, you know, just absolutely rocketed out of the church, um, I'll say like, different ways. Can you say that? ah So that's pretty good it come up with a lot. Yeah. After getting just absolutely hurled out of the church, I was, and I was, I was telling people like, you know, I, I mean, either, either God isn't good, uh, or he's not there because his people are kicking the shit out of me. He's letting it happen. and They're like, no, no, no, no. God didn't do this to you.
01:55:48
Speaker
his people did. And I was like, you mean the people who have his spirit inside of them, enabling them to do everything that they do? Like, like if I send my kid to school and he bites a kid, the teacher calls me and he's like, Hey, your kid bit somebody. I'm like, I deal with it. Don't worry. I'm so sorry. I'll deal with it.
01:56:06
Speaker
And then I send him back and he keeps biting And then I send him back and he keeps biting and he keeps biting at a certain point that's on me You know, and so like I just don't buy the shit that like well, you can't blame God They're just people and people are flawed bro. These are his people All right, like these are the ones he put his spirit inside of and he's letting them kick the shit out of people He's letting them oppress people. So like that's on him at a certain point. He's driving the car
Strengthening Family Bonds
01:56:39
Speaker
So pull it over because everyone in the back seats throwing batteries out of the windows like either on him to a degree or he's not real and it's on them or Exactly. like Yeah, exactly. Yeah wait so
01:56:53
Speaker
None of this has been real. and Don't tell Drew. Hang on. I haven't had a conversation with him yet. What? I don't know. It was ah it's crazy that you haven't had that conversation with Drew, but your kid went to school with all gums the next day. And I find that. Yeah. Well, hes bit he knows what's important to disconnect. That's interesting. But you are a better dad than God still because you didn't set him on fire.
01:57:17
Speaker
So that's good. yes You did it, Grant. You're better than God. Is that what you wanted to hear? It took us two hours to get there, but we did it. That's where I wanted to lay in. We call that the weave. We call that the weave. I talked about all these other things. It's the catalyst for you to start your own church. He's in it now. that He's back, baby. He's back. He started the church, God of his own people.
01:57:42
Speaker
It is interesting how we've talked to like so many people about like their shift away from Christian. And i I would say probably like half of the people we talked to are completely out. Half of them still practice in some sort of way kind of on their own terms. But I feel like One of the things to me that makes me feel like that that like my quote unquote faith was so like vapid and empty is like once the rules disintegrated for me, there really wasn't anything left to shift to. like Sam found you know progressive stages that moved you know where he concentrated on the things that were meaningful to him and dumped the stuff that wasn't. and and For me, it was just like once the rules were gone, I was like, I guess I don't
01:58:28
Speaker
care about any of this stuff. You know what I mean? Yeah, and yeah, 100%. It's funny how that how that's different for people. It's funny how it it it took such and it I think for Grant and I in very different ways. But if I had not been forced out, if I had not been told that who I am is disgusting,
01:58:54
Speaker
i probably Because that has nothing to do with you being gay. It's just you're just no I don't wash my hands. I haven't washed my hands in weeks Yeah, that's not the color. They're supposed to be nature flavor um No, like if I hadn't been forced at out I would have stayed for sure and Grant if he hadn't been forced out who knows where you'd be right now and So, I'm happy that at least for some people it's not so dramatic, but I do want to say as a queer person who came out of the church and survived it,
01:59:31
Speaker
hearing you straight guys talk about your experience and how the church has hurt you so much. It's so nice. It's so nice to hear. Oh, what's the church mean to you, Casey? Sam, did the church say bad things about you? Oh, I've heard this joke. It's very funny. Funny every time. It's a great joke.
01:59:55
Speaker
It's very funny every time. Let's be real. I don't want to brag, but I feel like when it comes to church, yeah, I can say some shit, but I'm mostly trauma free, baby. I left on my own terms. No one made me feel bad about myself. Yeah, fuck you. Never say that. Yeah, Sam, I think I heard Drew and Casey. Sorry, I know it seems like an ally for a second, Drew.
02:00:17
Speaker
Christ. Fucking ally fist down. That was so fucked. Get a face tattoo. Fuck you, Sam. Yeah, I'm just kidding. Thank you for having us, guys. I did get my wife on board with the throat tattoo. I think we've had that conversation a couple of times. Oh, she's going to leave?
02:00:37
Speaker
All right. Thanks. Thanks for having us, guys. This was great. Yeah, this was awesome. It would be good to meet you guys. Thank you for your time. You guys were a lot of fun. Appreciate your sense of humor. You know what? I love the sense.
02:00:49
Speaker
The people who've gone through some shit. I love the sense of humor around traumatic experiences. It makes me laugh. I love laughing at and all the horrible things you went through. Thank you for making me feel better. Uh, that's why I went through it was for you. You laughed at me. Oh, for Stacy hit that game for me one more time. I'm trying to, if you wouldn't mind, just hit it's really hard to hear you yeah me say goodbye just be quick craking up and col close us out. Casey, they need this. That's the only way to come now.
02:01:18
Speaker
all right full gain full gain thanks everybody for listening and we will see you next time wait we full game but don't edit and they haven't said what What's your YouTube channel, Drew? What's your YouTube channel? Oh, hi. but um Sorry, Casey cranked that game and he just went. it You can't have Casey at that game. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a commanding spirit. You're like, I guess we're done now. Him and him and him. Wow, it was incredible. ah No, our podcast ah is called Twin You Window. You can also watch it because we like to see ourselves on YouTube. It's on the IMHO The Show channel.
02:01:56
Speaker
Uh, so you can watch twin you into there, but you could also watch me as a lady going, Hey, I watched TV. Let me tell you about it. It's really fun. It's really fun. I, I am H O I am H O in my homosexual opinion. Okay. Yeah. Although my co-host is a trans woman, so she's not gay. So really all the opinions that matter are mine. The cis man. Yeah, of course.
02:02:23
Speaker
Uh, his co-host Alexis is one of the funniest human beings I've ever- Shut up, Grant! She is... She is. But I have to comedy go- She's a crazy person I love her with all my heart.
02:02:35
Speaker
She's funnier than everyone. She's funnier than all of us. But she doesn't know it because her life is on fire. Her life is actively on fire. Alexis is on fire. I've heard of that.
Conclusion and Community Appreciation
02:02:45
Speaker
So you know how Casey is like a toddler, like walking around, he just loves everything. And like Alexis is like a toddler where she's knocking everything over and we're all laughing, but she doesn't realize it. You know what I mean? Like she's just kind of like. She house sat for me like a few months ago and she broke one of the blades of our ceiling fan off. And so and that was not a surprise.
02:03:09
Speaker
And that's full sober. let say That's just sober Alexis wandering around the house. oop She's i broke truly wonderful. She's so fucking funny. She's amazing. You need an Alexis or a toddler, either will do. Yeah, she's great. All right.
02:03:26
Speaker
ah Thank you you guys so much. great Thanks everybody for listening