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Ep. 237 – Plotting an Unwelcome Overhaul of the Christian Film Industry w/ Dan Koch
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This week we’re happy to welcome back musician and host of the You Have Permission podcast, Dan Koch! We discuss the challenges of discussing current events with half the population, brainstorm some ideas to fix the Christian movie industry, and we gauge and quantify Dan’s reactions to the past years’ key controversial cultural moments. It’s a lot of fun and you can hear part 2 of our conversation on Dan’s show, You Have Permission, where Dan interviews us about the ways in which hosting a “deconstruction” podcast has affected us over the past 4 years. Dan’s great, and You Have Permission is a must listen! Follow Dan on X (@dankoch) and Instagram (@dancoke), and check out www.dankochwords.comfor links to all of his work!
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Transcript
Opening with Humor and Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
that would be my dream like in the ben hur kind of area era that i think pretty well but i could be misremembering i feel like it would be fun to do a noah movie hype it throughout the whole thing as like the story of the arc but then when you actually get to the theater it's just the part where he gets drunk and his kids pointed his penis laughing you just want You just want to finance entire films as practical jokes?
00:00:28
Speaker
This is your plan? Yeah, that would make me happy. That's what he would do if he you had infinite money. He would spend it on shit like that. Old school, late career Marlon Brando would be a great drunken naked Noah. Oh my gosh, Brando as naked Noah? 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10.
00:00:49
Speaker
ten out of ten
00:01:09
Speaker
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Growing Up Christian. I'm Sam. I'm Casey. And today we are joined again. It's been a long time. We're super excited to have him back. We are Dan, but Dan joined by Dan. coke What's up, Dan?
00:01:25
Speaker
I have perfect recall of ah of our entire episode. So, you know, I won't repeat anything. Listeners, I promise this is I'm being very sarcastic. I haven't. I won't ask the same question. People don't usually use that kind of language on this show.
00:01:39
Speaker
ah That surprises me. i i ah it' like the I really don't remember a lot of what we talk about 24 hours after we record it. If I don't go back and listen, it's I really on. Yeah.
00:01:56
Speaker
yeah So it's easy to fall into those like ah telling the same stories over and over again. But people are still listening. So I guess it's fine. i God bless him. Will likely if I was, that's another reason before we hit record, we were talking about the the directions we're going in and I mentioned pivoting and that's because I probably wrote down a lot of the same questions that we asked you the first time. Like, yeah I wish we had like your old handwritten notes from four years ago and then we could put them side by side.
00:02:27
Speaker
If you, I mean, Hey, you could always throw that up on the gram if you find it. I
Creepy Church Stories and Pop Culture Reflections
00:02:32
Speaker
should have. Just to see like how close did you come up? Like how many of the same ones did you think of? That'd be funny. Just general podcasting questions. No, but I have an icebreaker question. Oh, okay.
00:02:43
Speaker
Here we go. Great. All right, Dan. Yeah. Your church growing up. ah what was the creepiest part of your church? Like what what part of the physical building was the most scary?
00:02:56
Speaker
The physically creepiest part of my church growing up. Okay, it was kind of a sprawling campus. So i'm going to talk my way through it to remind myself. It was actually cool. Like the the initial chapel, which was by the time I was there, like the secondary smaller sanctuary.
00:03:14
Speaker
That got built by one of California's most famous architects and certainly one of the most famous female architects in American history, Julie. Shoot, I'm blanking on her last name.
00:03:26
Speaker
ah Super well-regarded architect, like five little mainline churches were like, let's band together and hire her to design us a chapel. And that was in like the late- Yeah. So they combined congregations and funds.
00:03:40
Speaker
So it's called a federated church. So it's like an interdenominational Protestant church, pre non-denominational movement. But by the time I was growing up in it, it was functionally a non-denominational church with some some like liturgical, more classic elements.
00:03:55
Speaker
And so what I'm realizing is I think probably the bell tower was the physically creepiest section connected to the original chapel. This is like a hundred year old building as I'm growing up there.
00:04:07
Speaker
Of course, it was our favorite prank ah to ring the bell during a regular service and disrupt it. That was like biggest no-no. And I was not a rebellious kid. My friends were the rebellious friends. um I know we're going to talk a little bit about pop culture. I'll just get I'll just get half of the audience angry with me right now.
00:04:28
Speaker
I am a really big fan of the Shane Gillis, ah Steve Gerben show Tires on Netflix. Yes. yard Okay. I just, um okay. It's just guys here. We can admit it. No, kidding.
00:04:41
Speaker
I just think it's really, really well done. and yeah, you know, some of the humor is ah is like a little edgy or whatever, but I just think it's so well done. And the dynamic between Shane being the like trickster and always fucking with Will, like that is the dynamic of my friends and I growing up in church.
Media Influence and Political Discourse
00:05:00
Speaker
ah And I was Will and they were all Shane. i And I was the straight man like getting shit on and like and so I wasn't the one to do that, but I would certainly accompany them up the bell tower. I mean, it was awesome. and And like now I think like it's genuinely an awesome part of that building, like architecturally, it's cool.
00:05:22
Speaker
But at the time it was just, you know, we were being little shits. Not many people get to sit at a bell tower in their church. That is cool. That's usually where you like lock away the strange looking people to that. That would be the creepiest thing, right?
00:05:36
Speaker
um Yeah, I would. It's unfortunate. didn't have any like a lighting You know, there's like no light bulbs in there. So you only had like ambient light. Anyway, I honestly i am for the most part.
00:05:49
Speaker
Definitely my church experience growing up was a net positive thing. Hands down. My entire evangelical upbringing that the math gets tougher if I include school.
00:06:00
Speaker
But my church experience is quite good. My church experience was quite good. There was obviously some private purity culture. ah Yeah, it was. Yeah. Eventually sixth grade and on I went to evangelical school and that's where the crazy shit happened.
00:06:16
Speaker
Absolutely. OK. What curriculum did you use? Abeka, get the fuck out of here, Casey, of course. Abeka. I was an ACE kid. Oh, isn't that even more conservative?
00:06:28
Speaker
It's real dumb. If conservative is synonymous synonymous with intentionally racist, then definitely. Well, at the time, I think it was. Have you bought any of these books like on eBay? I've grabbed a few of my ah my textbooks from from junior high and high school, and you know they're not like – I've looked at a few of them. They're not like full of insanity, you know, the whole time, but I definitely did find like a theme in the chapter on indigenous peoples that went something like the ungodly. did they have it come
00:07:02
Speaker
Yeah. The ungodly tribes kind of had it come in and And didn't displease God. But then it would also highlight these peaceful tribes. It had like its own theology of how God dealt with indigenous peoples that it wasn't making explicit.
00:07:17
Speaker
Anyway, I'm rambling. But the interesting thing about that, though, is there's a through line in how all of the nation's ills are addressed where it's like, yeah, we'll focus on the people who responded to our violence kindly.
00:07:29
Speaker
um Martin Luther King j ah Indigenous peoples, you know, yeah who at least liked the warmth of the blankets provided, you know, they were. Oh, gosh. Oh, my gosh. Yeah.
00:07:42
Speaker
You guys do. I mean, really, you guys are the template for like the amount of humor you could you could possibly get away with talking about topics like this. You guys are near that limit. I'm i'm envious.
00:07:54
Speaker
ah I could learn a thing or two from you. ah Well, yeah, I mean, I actually think that I mean, I am of the. I am of the, if my tires take wasn't, wasn't gonna get me in hot water enough with the left, I'll go out and say it.
00:08:11
Speaker
I think Martin Luther King Jr. was in fact the most effective civil rights leader of the civil rights movement. I know it's a wild idea. Yeah, well. He's actually the one that got the most done for the cause, but I think that's true.
00:08:26
Speaker
And I think that people just, I think the average people who are thinking about news events that do not directly involve them, I think that they, I think that humans have a high psychological propensity to value safety and order if it's not something that has any direct connection to them. And so that's like why the average person does not want to be ah in a war.
00:08:50
Speaker
You know, the average person, like they don't want us to be in war. It's not like the weather underground boulevard in most cities. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, no. But, you know, there's a lot of Stokely Carmichael, you know, ah valorizing and and like we'll take Malcolm over.
00:09:08
Speaker
Martin and, you know, ah anyway, it's not my fight, but I just, I do think that, uh, he was effective because he understood the motivations of average people. And in order to get any of these things successfully through the gate, you have to appeal to in America, average Americans. So you just have to,
00:09:28
Speaker
Because you have to have something, you know, something akin to 60 or 70 percent of popular support to make a big change that will pass with 53 percent in the Senate or something. You know, it's like people have to be convinced.
00:09:41
Speaker
And like with gay marriage, they did become convinced like they did become convinced that it's like regular marriage. OK, we're cool with this. And then they and then it became the law of the land. until what was it two years ago? And, uh, someone tried to push a vote, uh, regarding gay marriage. And it was, uh, don't
Navigating Conversations and Humor in Politics
00:10:00
Speaker
know.
00:10:00
Speaker
There's a large percentage. It was that over 50% of Republicans still were like, maybe we'd go backwards on this. I thought, yeah, but it won't. Yeah, that is notable, but it's notable. And it seems real it's important.
00:10:12
Speaker
Uh, I have a lot of faith in people's like but ability to, to, to make the right choice in some of those scenarios, because like, You know, I live in Kansas and we had that big you know proposal to vote on abortion where they were going to write it into the state constitution that like abortion was illegal. And I don't remember all the details, but it lost and it lost.
00:10:37
Speaker
Hard. I mean, and all you saw all summer long was just bumper stickers, billboards, everything like, like propping up this proposal and like telling people to vote on it a certain way. You know, was like a pro-life advertising. They spent yeah millions and millions. I remember the news story about this. Yeah, it lost. Yeah.
00:10:56
Speaker
Yeah. But, but I think for gay marriage, it actually would be a Supreme court issue. Right. So it'd be the interpretation of the laws because Obergefell was an interpretation of law. So they'd have to overturn Obergefell, which means they'd have to have, so that would be the only way to do it. And I just don't, I don't see that happening.
00:11:13
Speaker
I know, I know that there are some caricatures of, of the Supreme court that it's like, you know, little, little conservative looking like little demons and suits and ties. Yeah. Yeah. ah But I don't, I think that's overblown. I think,
00:11:27
Speaker
There's been a bunch of unanimous decisions and you don't get unanimous decisions if half the court's evil and the right half is good or six, three or whatever the ratio you think it is like there. You know, they're not going to go Democrats way on french more fringe, more culture war issues. That's probably true.
00:11:43
Speaker
ah But anyway, I guess we're talking about the Supreme Court. I thought we were going to talk about media and fun stuff, which is why I wanted to go first and be, have you guys interview me first and then we'll switch it up.
00:11:55
Speaker
Oh, did we say that we're doing two episodes? yeah Should we maybe mention that? Yeah, we are. Yeah, I know. could' have done a little more intro. um Well, we mentioned in our last episode that we had this cooking. Okay, cool. So we are doing a little episode swap.
00:12:08
Speaker
um Maybe there'll be some overlap. Maybe there won't be. It's really up to us in the universe to decide. um um, really. it's Yeah. Unless one episode on you, one on your feet and then one over at you have permission.
00:12:22
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Which is very fun and very generous of you, Dan. I appreciate the invite. and don't understand that. It's just going to be fun. We should also credit Spencer Bland, a guest of both shows now.
00:12:33
Speaker
Yes. Comedian recently relocated to Los Angeles. a lovely man. He, uh, he, uh, You know, of course, we had done this before, but it had been a long time and it's not like we are in regular touch or anything. And he was like, oh, you should do something with them again. And so that's when I sort of thought about it again and was like, oh, let's do a little swap.
00:12:53
Speaker
Swaparoo. Yeah. So thanks, Spencer. Yeah, that Spencer. He's a real one. I appreciate that, man. He's out. ah He's out on the West Coast now. He made his Max Keebler made his big move. Everybody he is.
00:13:03
Speaker
He finally did it. Proud of him. All right. Look, so you do this thing. and There's a couple of things you do on your podcast that I like, and I'm going to play off that a little bit.
00:13:14
Speaker
You have your. A couple that you don't like. and i get this And the rest I hate. I think the rest is terrible. ah um You have a tendency to exhale really loud before you take a bite.
00:13:25
Speaker
Yeah. You do the you do generation culture gap or culture hour. ah Yeah. Generation gap culture hour with Tony and Josh.
00:13:37
Speaker
Yeah. Um, and I like that. Um, I've always enjoyed the conversations that you guys have. Uh, Tony, I was, I always appreciate his perspective. Um, same with Josh. So, um,
00:13:49
Speaker
ah with With that, there's also, you also did, I didn't listen to the whole thing, but it's okay you did. We watched The Chosen, so you don't have to. and We only did like two episodes of that. Oh, you only made it through the two. I did listen to the whole thing then. We didn't keep it going.
00:14:08
Speaker
ah There's not a big not a big appetite for like movie and TV content for my listeners. Yeah. I think that's crazy because I was ah looking forward to the next episode of that. I because I really like I've been told so much about The Chosen and I really didn't want to watch it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:29
Speaker
I appreciate that you liked that framing. I will admit I was kind of proud of that framing of we watch The Chosen so you don't have to because i did feel like so many people had told me to watch it.
00:14:40
Speaker
But mostly they're the people that when they tell me to watch something, I don't watch it yeah So I felt like this pressure to watch it, but I was not planning on it. And then and then a little and I felt like, oh, that's probably how a lot of people feel. But then later, a couple of people were like, no, like, it's pretty good, dude. Like, you might want to check it out.
00:14:58
Speaker
And i i I might go back and watch the rest of it. I don't know. I i was intrigued by a lot of it. And I wasn't like as triggered or whatever as I anticipated being.
00:15:09
Speaker
And I thought that it, know, there was some interesting stuff about it to talk about. But, you know, you got to listen to the listeners, man.
00:15:17
Speaker
i'm I'm genuinely surprised that ah that's not a lane that gets a ton of response. um I feel like you're yeah every time I've listened to your breakdowns of any sort of media film, when even if they don't have episodes around it, right? It comes up.
00:15:32
Speaker
um Latest Michael Tate album. Yeah. i I didn't have cultural thoughts on the late Michael Tate album. Has he been releasing solo records, by the way? Do we even know? Does he have a solo career? I thought he was in Newsboys until January.
00:15:50
Speaker
Well, he he did at one point have a solo career because I remember like a Tate record that came out at one point. And yeah I think it was back when I was still listening to DC Talk. So I bought it and it was just so boring.
00:16:04
Speaker
I didn't. really stick with it but i don't know if he's done anything recently no i think he was in newsboys until january of this year when the when he was outed as gay by that tiktoker uh that's i think precipitated his um leaving the band and then you know these newer allegations came out a couple of months after that three months after that whatever Yeah. So, yeah.
00:16:29
Speaker
Well, luckily in that world, the second allegations are ah the first one was a lot, you know, that's a lot harder for him. I can imagine he can in the right context and circumstance walk out from
Storytelling in Media and Biblical Adaptations
00:16:40
Speaker
underneath these second ones. Those get swept under the rug fairly easily.
00:16:43
Speaker
They're very forgiving in in that world at times. Wait a second. I'm not sure if I know which. The joke Sam's making is that ah face that this is a dark Being gay the bigger charge. Yeah, that that in amongst evangelicals, they're going to have be more angry that he's gay than that he potentially date-raped someone to facilitate marriage.
00:17:09
Speaker
He made a mistake 30 years ago, guys. I don't. Okay. So I don't i appreciate you guys sounding this out for me. Cause I was off in the weeds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
00:17:20
Speaker
So I could have landed that plane better, but it's okay. I got the joke. Obviously. Uh, here is a real take that I have though. Hold on. I lost it. You guys edit later.
00:17:33
Speaker
so We can. Okay. Well, please edit this. Okay. Um, or you can leave that in, I don't know. we Shoot, i lost I lost my train of thought.
00:17:44
Speaker
A real take I'm assuming has to do with evangelicals and the, I don't maybe how they've it understood. Oh yes, here we go. I got it.
00:17:56
Speaker
I got it. I got it. Here's my take for though. I really try not to consume sort of like resistance type media. i I really, I'm trying to avoid,
00:18:09
Speaker
feeling self congratulatory about being one of the correct ones. And I'm rather much more prioritizing, like an honest look at how I've thought about the rest of the country to consider what I have probably been getting wrong.
00:18:24
Speaker
And I actually have basically no time for any political commentator that is not also engaged in something similar. i just think with the time for self congratulation is over.
00:18:34
Speaker
ah we We fucking failed. So we got to think about it. Yeah, because it does matter the kind of causes that the left traditionally wants, they matter. And so we need to win fucking elections. OK, anyway, but but my take is this.
00:18:49
Speaker
The absolute best liberal shitpost is the idea that after Kamala was accused of being a DEI hire, people started saying that the members of Trump's cabinet were DUI hires.
00:19:07
Speaker
Chef's fucking kiss. at his real That's an incredible bit. And that one, I have time for DUI hires for the rest of my life. That's so funny and so clever and fucking accurate, too.
00:19:21
Speaker
So that's, yes. Anyway, that was what it was. love that. That was a fun... I'm fairly... well surrounded by people who don't agree with me about anything.
00:19:36
Speaker
Um, when it comes to like family, um, not friends, of course we pick our friends, yeah pick friends that align with our values. Do you mean geographically and stuff? Yeah, like um like i'm just I'm in regular community with people who don't think the same way I do.
00:19:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And now the way we handle that is usually never bringing up anything serious at all. And it's working out okay.
00:20:04
Speaker
um It's been a couple of tricky moments because I'm currently staying at my in-laws and there's just that challenging dynamic. And it comes up here there. We're all aware of that we don't align on anything.
00:20:16
Speaker
um And it is challenging though. Cause like you, you know, yeah we are, we're just in this like zero sum game right now. It feels like, I mean, even the past few weeks, Casey and I have talking about this a bunch. It's like, I don't know how you can look at what's going on like, there's just where where there's like five different realities at play that are all just kind of crashing into each other and like overlapping constantly. And ah A lot of it has to do with the media you consume and how they frame certain narratives and what's convenient to already previously held beliefs. um But yeah I don't know, man. It is, ah to me, it's it's wild there wild out there right now.
00:20:57
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I'm trying to follow that advice myself of like, just not, let's just not bring it up with those individuals because what are the chances that it is constructive and helpful and aids in my relationship with them?
00:21:13
Speaker
they're very low. So there might be a time or if they seem to like throw an olive branch out or something, you know, I'm open. But it's just like it seems like such a losing proposition right now. My energy is better spent elsewhere, frankly. Right.
00:21:27
Speaker
If they're not asking, I don't think they want to hear what I have to say. Yeah. um and And that's just like a rule of persuasion. Like if someone's not kind of in the market at all, yeah they're not going to be persuaded. So like you'll just end up kind of probably making it worse, you know, like ah by just increasing relational distance.
00:21:48
Speaker
Right. And then you have less persuasive power after that because they don't trust you as much. So. It's yeah, it's a it's like a unfortunately shitty losing proposition to try and like get any kind of catharsis from the people who voted for him.
00:22:05
Speaker
ah they're They're not going to be giving me the catharsis I want. But i also refuse to get it from social media. I really I'm really on a I'm really on a catharsis hunger strike is what I'm saying right now.
00:22:18
Speaker
Well, I get the ah the resistance media. Like weariness. Dude, I can't look at it. It's like either one of the polar points is just so hard to to deal with at this point, especially when everything changes every 15 minutes.
00:22:37
Speaker
don't know. It's just yeah so frustrating to to watch people gloat, especially over things like, you know, this like, you know, whether or not we destroyed all of Iran's nuclear programs.
00:22:50
Speaker
It's like, I think it's probably best if we just say we probably did and there's no reason for us to go back ever, you know, like. I know we all want to own Trump, but like I think it'd be best if we just let him have this one and you know not bomb him anymore.
00:23:08
Speaker
I hope that... you know I don't know if we have the official assessment back yet, and I hope that it was effective since it happened, but I don't... And if it's ineffective, then that seems to
Cultural Divides and Hypothetical Film Adaptations
00:23:20
Speaker
open up like more bad possibilities.
00:23:24
Speaker
But like the stuff that I really... can't handle is like, you know, somebody would somebody posts say reposts an image that's like countries Iran has bombed and it's like zero and then countries the United States has bombed and it lists all these countries.
00:23:41
Speaker
And it's like, OK, there's a there is a kernel of like, yeah, we have obviously engaged interventions that have been wrong, like for sure. I've read my Howard's in.
00:23:54
Speaker
OK, I agree. But to say that Iran has not bombed any countries is basically to say, like, I literally don't know anything about Iran other than this social media post that I've shared.
00:24:10
Speaker
You're basically saying you know as much about Iran as Ted Cruz. Right. Like they, well, much less than Ted Cruz, because Ted Cruz knows at least that Iran has set up proxy armies in multiple nations, including one that was recently in the news, Hezbollah.
00:24:27
Speaker
Like that's Iran. And so they, Iran is like literally constantly engaged in terror and guerrilla warfare against Israel and the United States and has been for 40 years straight.
00:24:42
Speaker
So Just like if you're the kind of person who posts that, then it tells me something that either you're in curious or lazy or something.
00:24:53
Speaker
Or it tells me that if you do know that, then like you're you then you're maybe bad or stupid like right they're like really don't understand things or are actually a bad person and you think that evil things are good and that seems like the least likely option i think mostly it's laziness and whatever and just it feels good to be confirmed to be simple they want it to be simple digestible they want to break everything out into goodbyes and bad guys like star wars you know and it's just things don't work that way and that's why people have such a hard time with like
00:25:26
Speaker
the Ukrainian conflict, you know, because there's, there's a lot of history. There's very complicated, you know, that doesn't mean that Russia's justified in anything that they've done, but like, you have to take into context. Yeah.
00:25:41
Speaker
yeah You know, they've been dealing with ah United States proxies for a long time, you know, and I don't know. It's just, yeah, I'm, I'm with you.
00:25:51
Speaker
It's complex. Yeah, it's there's ah anytime anything international happens, it's like, that' like ah well, this is just, this is what? This is social the the age of social media and soundbite.
00:26:05
Speaker
Yeah, I do think of it primarily through like a media culture, so like a media studies lens. Like I mostly think of this stuff in terms of the way that we now get our information and share it.
00:26:16
Speaker
You know, that's, that's like the biggest thing that's changed. It's not that people are much more evil or stupid now, you know, it's like, no, we're the same, but like we, the, the mechanism has really changed in the last 40, 50 years.
00:26:30
Speaker
Yeah. And it's, it's causing a bunch of downstream effects. Well, I'm going to shift us into something a little less serious. You mentioned tires. I'm glad you did. Um, it means that I, I know that,
00:26:43
Speaker
There's some overlap here when it comes to yeah general interest in media consumption. There will be. But I was thinking of, ah so when you do your culture gap conversations, we're looking at, ah I don't know, what's what's what's Tony? Is he a boomer? Is he Gen X?
00:27:01
Speaker
He's like, jenna did you just turn 52, 53, something like that. okay so you don't have boomers represented there which is there's no boomer and then i'm an elder millennial and josh is a very youngest millennial he's like 31 i think 30 32 something like that i feel like the biggest divide though that's noticeable to me when it comes to ah language understandings interests it's like boomers millennials gen z right like I mean, already, like, I feel like Gen X kind of gets skipped over. Just like everyone else. You just skip over Gen X. hu yeah and No regard for your brother's cooler, older friends. No, they have no like marketing. ah
00:27:45
Speaker
Like we boomers are always mad about your friend. For your uncle who loved grunge. No, you nothing. do you have a do you have a Gen X uncle? No, I think all my ah all of my uncles would be boobies. Older cousin?
00:28:03
Speaker
I'd have to look it up. I don't know what the age range is for Gen X, but I want to say I don't have a lot of Xers in my life. Gen right now would be something 45 63 or something is Gen X. Okay.
00:28:15
Speaker
I do have a friend who is ah who is about to turn 60. Yeah. I guess my parents are Gen X then. You little baby boy, Casey. Ooh, your parents.
00:28:27
Speaker
Yeah. like Trust me, they're boomers. yeah I know the tail end of boomers is is Gen X. I mean, of Gen X is very boomery. um But I feel like the way that boomers respond to cultural issues, millennials respond to cultural issues and ah Gen Z responds to that.
00:28:44
Speaker
ah All very different. I feel like Gen X kind of either goes boomer or goes millennial. And they were kind of being sandwiched between that. um Depending on how old they are, they may have adopted some uh experiences from whichever one they were closer to but um the rehearsal season two um ah how know ha's gotten yeah yeah i it all right it's like i want to i i want to go ahead i struggle
00:29:16
Speaker
No, you're fine. i'm I'm looking at some of the, I wanted just, this is kind of like a little popcorn round here. Okay. here throne As we call it in youth group. Perfect. perfect But I feel like the because of the way that everything's looked at, I was thinking of some of these ah cultural moments of the past year um or pop culture moments of the past year that are big talking points.
00:29:39
Speaker
um Maybe they were flash in the pan. ah Maybe they've lived on in meme history. but ah there's a few. And depending on how you respond to them, it'll tell me whether or not you're a boomer, a millennial, or okay we're doing a Gen Okay, we're doing a game segment. That's not like a real game. I mean, I'm going to be wrong about my assessments in all of these. Throw them out.
00:30:01
Speaker
But it is a sort of a, it's a segment, though. We're doing a segment. Yeah, a little segment. Love it. I'm trying to do more. i'm I'm interested in doing more segments, so I might hit you up about this. We used to try to do them a lot more when we started. And then yeah um as my ah ah time got more significantly occupied but and I was pulled in many other directions, I did a little bit less planning and trying to come up with fresh new games. But the games, i always we always loved it. Earlier on, it was a big hit for us.
00:30:32
Speaker
um Let's play this one. Let's play one. Yeah, thanks, Keith. Here we go. Katy Perry's Space Trip. Yeah, i I tried to ignore it. right i saw I saw a few, you know, I saw a little bit about it.
00:30:46
Speaker
Initial takes. I thought it was inspiration. Oh, you're asking for my take on them. thought you were asking if I knew them. Little blurbs on your thoughts and feelings about Okay, i this is all a kind of third hand.
00:30:58
Speaker
my My understanding of the criticism of what I read and heard of people criticizing her made me think there's no way I'm going to watch any of these videos that she's watching. put out like I this is not going to be my scene it's not going be my style ah you know i don't it's not speaking to me I'm not the demographic for it either let's be honest so turns out no one was the demographic for it because it ruined ruined things for for a moment I think and then she drifted into some terrible robot dance that got circulated almost as much as her kissing the ground after she pretended to go into orbit for a second
00:31:39
Speaker
It was a bad PR trifecta. Yeah. Well, trifecta. Was there a third that I'm unaware of? i don't know. ah The robot counts as two. Yeah. The Daniels, is it the ah David and Goliath series on ah Amazon Prime?
00:31:56
Speaker
Oh, I have. Yeah, I just seen the. I've just seen the little um thumbnail you know on the on the app, and I'm just like, i ah no, I'm not goingnna um not going down that road. It's not even worth it. It's pretty inspirational.
00:32:10
Speaker
Not even worth it for to make a pod. I took a little note out of your book. I took a note out of your book. with ah We watched the first episode, and yeah and the inspiration for that was your chosen little series there. Oh, look at that.
00:32:25
Speaker
Uh, so little ideas to keep up with it. Like you did not keep up with the chosen. Do as I say, not as I do, Sam. Okay. Yeah. I don't know, man. Those like, i would, I would only do it if it was like, there was yeah a lot of people asking to do it for the show. I would, I would consider, but I am doing shiny, happy people, uh, next month.
00:32:48
Speaker
Okay. month When the season two comes out for that, which is also, I didn't, knew there was going to be season two. yeah's It's focused on ah acquire the fire and team mania. Oh man. I can't wait for that.
00:33:00
Speaker
know. I love acquire the fire. I didn't love it when I went, but I love remembering. Yeah. I, I, I, I never went, but I was very aware of it. And Sarah Lane, Richie, who's on my show a lot. She's going to join me. We're going to do some response episodes. So I really, i love doing response episodes.
00:33:19
Speaker
because i
Therapy Culture and Personal Growth
00:33:20
Speaker
I mean, just a little peek into the process, like I love that you can take a ah piece of culture. i think some news this works with as well, like the Michael Tate stuff I've enjoyed talking about because it gives you a chance to kind of come at it from multiple different angles.
00:33:35
Speaker
And podcasting is a good format for like, let's do 10 minutes on the spiritual abuse aspect. Let's do 10 minutes on the criminality differences. Let's do, you know, like it makes me think about celebrity and this overlap. Like you can sort of, it's a good format for, yeah like kind of breaking something down from four or five angles.
00:33:58
Speaker
And i I find that shows and movies are that way too. It's like you can, there's sort of like things that are going on they could like for shining happy people. It might be like, you know, the B story of the episode is focused on this and you know, that's really related to this thing or or whatever.
00:34:15
Speaker
So I like doing it. Uh, but I just have to find stuff that is like, that my audience is interested in. i think this certainly will meet that condition, but like, you know, doing Mike Flanagan's Midnight Mass and talking about the overlap of a Christian metaphysical world and vampires, like, which I think would be really interesting and fun.
00:34:37
Speaker
That doesn't seem to be the appetite for that. Pun intended. how How do you gauge that? Is it just... when when we did a fucking survey responses okay no we we we conducted a survey and asked uh we yeah we wanted like five or six kind of pieces of information from people as well as we gave a couple like long you know long form answers for for certain questions like what they'd want to hear about and stuff um but one of the things we wanted to ask about was like the what is it that you like in episodes and so we talked about and like what types of episodes like
00:35:11
Speaker
ones that are primarily with an expert that kind of got the highest rating. Like people like it when I talk to experts um and we put media TV movie stuff down and was like one of the least popular. It was like it was roundly rejected by the majority of respondents.
00:35:28
Speaker
Like I hate these episodes so much. I'm not going to buy Meow Mix and I'm going tell them it's because of your podcast. Yeah, it's going to hurt their sales. Yeah.
00:35:39
Speaker
so okay What actor would have, if we're talking about these like Bible shows, you know, that have been popping up, right? What actor's name or actress's name would you have to see in order for you to go, okay, well, i'm I'm going to check this out. Oh, that's a great question. Yeah. Like who would, who would get me to go, okay, I have to at least give this a look, even though it's obviously a Christian show or something.
00:36:05
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Casey always picks Billy Bob Thornton for everything. I was just going to say, actually, you made me think of Casey Affleck. Casey Affleck might get me to to check it out. If he signed on to something, that would be like, oh, shit, what?
00:36:20
Speaker
Okay, so somebody knows something about this maybe being good, is what I would think. if if He's a mysterious character. He's a great actor. I've only seen him in Gone Baby Gone is the only thing I recall seeing him in.
00:36:34
Speaker
Good Will Hunting? Oh, yeah, I saw that. Here's your fucking double burger. That's been Affleck's character, but you get it. I think about that every time I see a double burger on a menu anywhere.
00:36:47
Speaker
I'm going to put it on layaway. Okay. I watch movies once and never and rarely ever return to them, with the exception of like a comedy here or there. So you don't quote movies unless they are like silly comedies that are meant to be watched over and over again?
00:37:01
Speaker
don't. probably don't really quote movies because I don't. i don't I'm not a movie person. i so I never. I see a couple a year at best. And those are mostly ones that I see with my children.
00:37:13
Speaker
Like a show guy. You watch a lot of shows. I watch a lot of shows. I rarely ingest. Like what's the conclave is what people are talking about. And I've been recommended.
00:37:26
Speaker
It's been recommended to me a million times and I watched the trailer. I go, it looked really good. And then I go, I'm probably not going to sit down and watch this though. It's just something about an investment. I know what you mean.
00:37:37
Speaker
I got another one for you though. If Donald Glover was in a Christian TV show, I would definitely check it out. Hey, Donald Glover is not going to be bad. No, it's it's going to be worth my time no matter what. If Donald Glover is in it, Donald Glover is the anti Will Smith.
00:37:53
Speaker
um Like that that is a that is a dichotomy there. Yes. Like if if Donald Glover puts out a music video, you're like, OK, I'm going to watch this. If Will Smith put out the music video anymore.
00:38:06
Speaker
Oh God, it's going to be bad. It's a hundred percent going to be bad. but I honestly think most of my favorite actors, I would check out if they were in it. If Phoebe Waller-Bridge was in it, if, ah you know, if Maya Rudolph was in a show, I'd check it out. Like, you know, if somebody I really like, if Will Forte was in a biblical comedy, fuck yeah, I'm going to check that out, dude.
00:38:30
Speaker
So there's probably a hundred actors who could, who could get me to try it, you know? I think that's what a lot of this is, is when you, the it kind of just feels like there's a ceiling for Christian media um until they, because they're either, if they're going to,
00:38:50
Speaker
crossover into getting like a list talent, then they're going to, it's going to require that they check some boxes or uncheck some boxes that they don't want to fuck with.
00:39:02
Speaker
Um, because Christian media always has, i mean, all media has a, it, goal or intent, I guess. But we know what the goal or intent of Christian media is well it's also it's really like a These are B movies. These are B movies and B shows. These are yeah these are lower budget, significantly lower budget.
00:39:21
Speaker
They have to have a certain sort of sheen to them, which now digital cameras are affordable enough that you can get that sheen, you know, that sort of like base level production value, but like, you know, they're made much more cheaply and they can't pay as much to the stars. So you, you get the people that you can afford.
00:39:41
Speaker
You know, it's it's just like ah it's just like horror directors in the 90s or whatever. You know, it's just like or like the it's like those ah like army and soldier movies that are only at Redbox. You know, it's like that's basically that it's not the the budgets and stuff for a lot of these movies are not dissimilar.
00:39:59
Speaker
And then you and then they
Media Consumption and Pop Culture Identity
00:40:00
Speaker
occasionally have a big hit that'll make 50 or 100 million dollars. But that's really rare. They mostly make back five million dollars or or whatever. But when this movie is rated F for douche fap How about like a Maybe we just need like a curveball Sort of casting decision Like what about like a gender bent Story of Elijah Starring Gina Carano cheap I mean Disney's not going to make From men to women is such a funny bit For a Christian movie That's a funny bit
00:40:37
Speaker
It's like the literally the one thing they would never sign off on. Oh, God.
00:40:49
Speaker
It's... Because occasionally you get bigger productions, right? Like, i'm remember when Noah came out, Christians are always unhappy with the big productions. um they And they always really enjoy the B ones. um And obviously that's because the sacrifices that these... When you're bringing...
00:41:09
Speaker
They don't have the same agenda. That's what it comes down to. But I always am like, I think there's so many Bible stories that would make some of the dopest movies if they didn't get evangelicalized.
00:41:22
Speaker
what If you could if any any Bible story, what do you think would just make a total banger of a film? Massive budget. ah Informed, right? We're trying to honor like the story, but we're not trying to make it evangelical.
00:41:37
Speaker
It's a great question because so my first thought was Jonah, but that's just because um my first thought is my favorite book in the Bible. And, you know, it's got action, you know, though though the fish and everything would be that could be cool.
00:41:54
Speaker
uh, like it, like, but like a really well done version of that story. um but, but then I'm just thinking, wow, it's just cause that's my favorite one. Now I'm trying to think like, okay, what's the biblical version of like a bank heist movie?
00:42:07
Speaker
Like my favorite kinds of movies to watch are like crime or, you know, so it's like, oh, is there, is there a biblical gritty crime drama, you know, waiting to happen?
00:42:19
Speaker
Who's the king that gets assassinated through the asshole? Uh, There's got to be something Kings and Judges. and I mean, right. There's got to be some crime plots in there. Brutal Game of Thrones style series. Palace intrigue.
00:42:34
Speaker
Going through the gutter, like going through that, like that's crawling through the sewer system. So that way you can stab a King right up the ass. Oh, through the, uh, the book of Mormon and do like a Nephi killing the King and wearing his skin or whatever.
00:42:50
Speaker
I mean, honestly, I mean, not not present in the text or subtext of your question, Sam, but true is that there are a lot of really good biblical movies that have been made.
00:43:03
Speaker
There's not like yeah by by Hollywood. Right. Like um some of these biblical epics are awesome. Like I really I really like Darren Aronofsky's Noah, for instance. Yeah, I thought that was pretty good.
00:43:17
Speaker
it It did. And it really incorporated a lot of elements of like it, it, it included a lot of academic criticism um and explored a lot of extra biblical resources tie into like lore. I love that. i got tell Like a, like a Talmudic retelling of the story, basically yeah something like it was like the main text or like, I mean, i really love last temptation of Christ that gets, it gets extra biblical in a way, but it's actually pretty,
00:43:47
Speaker
it's pretty true to the, to the events, you know, as described. And it was very controversial, but yeah. i won hosky Yeah. Making Jonah and the whale, but the whale is Brendan Frazier. yeah And soon as he said the whale, I knew that was coming.
00:44:06
Speaker
um
00:44:12
Speaker
He's like, the essay's actually bad. law ah he ah But an Aronofsky Jonah would rule. like Whatever his take on Jonah would be, I would watch that.
00:44:25
Speaker
I would buy the Blu-ray before it came out. just to so I would support the Kickstarter, is what I'm saying. I want to see Samson just real gritty. and ah I think Samson's a great candidate. Yeah. And I want to see, this one just came to me today.
00:44:41
Speaker
ah Well, during this conversation, a, no like a dark horror style version of Job, um where, you know, that that a spiritual horror thriller of just Job, just getting fucking tortured.
00:45:01
Speaker
Dude, that's a... Okay, we want Robert Eggers for that one ah after, you know, The Witch and The Northman. and Yeah. we want We want him at the helm, Nosferatu, if we could get him.
00:45:14
Speaker
if I love that idea. If I had a rich family member to help me start a production company, that's the direction I would go in. That would be my dream direction. think there was a series movie in the Ben-Hur kind of era that I think did pretty well, but I could be misremembering.
00:45:31
Speaker
I feel like it would be fun to do a Noah movie, hype it throughout the whole thing as like the story of the arc. But then when you actually get to the theater, it's just the part where he gets drunk and his kids pointed his penis.
00:45:45
Speaker
and You just want to you just want to finance entire films as practical jokes. This is your plan. That would make me happy. That's what he would do if he you had infinite money. He would spend it on shit like that.
00:46:00
Speaker
Nothing would be old school like late career Marlon Brando would be a great drunken naked. No. Oh my gosh. Brando as naked Noah. ta Ten out of ten.
00:46:12
Speaker
Ten out of ten.
00:46:15
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like the other things I had to ask are just not fun compared to this conversation that we just had. It feels it's going to go downhill from here, but I'm going to do it anyway. um That's okay. I'll so i'll try and dazzle.
00:46:27
Speaker
It's all right. My last one, you already touched on it because apparently you are at a premonition of some sort, but um and I'll close with that one. Um, Uh, I, the Olympics last
Podcasting Creativity and Future Plans
00:46:40
Speaker
summer, uh, provided us with a lot of great content. It was the craziest Olympics that I can remember go from the pole vaulter who almost got hung to death by his dick, uh, to my personal favorite, um, ray gun and break dancing.
00:46:56
Speaker
Uh, when you saw the break dancing had entered the fray at the Olympics. Yeah. What was your, uh, were you like, Oh, finally some culture or, uh, No, you know, the sad thing is i was starting up my internship and I just had no, I had no margin. So I was not that locked in. Like I was aware it was going on. We watched, we watched a few things, you know, I will say my, my real hot take is that's the best user interface of any like large scale event on my television that I've experienced. Like Peacock handled it.
00:47:31
Speaker
And no one has ever done that good of a job with anything like the NBA playoffs or Super Bowl weekend or March Madness or like anything big like that. They handled it.
00:47:44
Speaker
That was like, OK, if the streamers can provide me this level of technological whatever access to the programming, I'll pay for some streamers.
00:47:54
Speaker
This is great. That's my take. I didn't dazzle. No. right. I like the trans last. I choked up there. That was an emotional. trans like Oh, I did. I did. ah I do remember stuff about that.
00:48:08
Speaker
Yeah, that was my take about that was there was a bunch of bad faith stuff on the left that was like being very legalistic and being like, well, technically it's a Bacchus and here are some paintings that that hair hanging in the Louvre that he's actually referencing. It's like, you're fucking kidding me.
00:48:29
Speaker
If that dude was not thinking it's the last supper, like it's also Bacchus. I know the vine, i get it. But like, it was very obviously intended to be the last supper.
00:48:43
Speaker
And that is like, that is frankly gaslighting. That is telling people that they are crazy for assuming that one of the, I don't know, five to 10 most iconic visual images in Western history.
00:49:00
Speaker
He wasn't talking. He wasn't doing that. It was Bacchus. Fuck you. If you've convinced yourself of that, you've got your own problems, but do not gaslight me.
00:49:11
Speaker
Obviously it's the last supper. And then like, whatever, he could do that if he wants. I didn't really care about that. I just cared about being gaslit. Yeah. It's interesting because, um,
00:49:22
Speaker
It's just art, whatever. I didn't get no response to the actual art. But for the for the people who are saying that it's not um saying, I guess, whatever they want about it, the people who are going to bat for what it represents are also people who don't genuinely care if it represents the other thing.
00:49:42
Speaker
They just want to have a problem with the reaction of the people who... Yeah. Thought that it reminded them enough of some, even if it, let's say it's not, and it reminded them enough. Like you said, it's one of the most recognizable, like that's that, that Last Supper is recognizable in that set. The other thing, even
Closing Remarks and Next Episode Preview
00:50:00
Speaker
if it's drawing on multiple sources of imagery, not as well known. Yeah. No, I mean, that's what people are going to say. One last supper to like, what's the painting?
00:50:12
Speaker
Let's go Bill Simmons here. What's the other painting between Mona Lisa and the Last Supper? I don't think the Venus de Milo is more famous than the Last Supper. No, the Michelangelo is a statue, not a painting.
00:50:26
Speaker
So what are we fucking talking about? Yeah, it's just I mean, if you put a circle behind the middle guy's head, it's the Last Supper. Yeah. No. It's ah I'd like to manufacture critiques of Christianity. Like there's an Oliver Tree music video where he's crucified on a giant razor scooter.
00:50:48
Speaker
And I thought that was pretty powerful.
00:50:54
Speaker
That is legitimately a thing. I was going to ask if that's real. Is it legitimate that you thought it was powerful? Yeah, it moved me. It brought me back to the days of him trying to grind a ah ah a sidewalk. Grind a grinder rail Yeah.
00:51:13
Speaker
Find a sidewalk or rail whatever you were grinding when you were in eighth grade. It probably was soft and plushy, but ah mattress.
00:51:26
Speaker
I have a question that detours a little bit here, but take it away. therapist. I'm a therapist. How much therapy is too much? For what kind of client?
00:51:38
Speaker
The kind that likes to talk about therapy. Dude, response actually was perfect. I'm walking into mind field here. No, you're not. That was a perfect response because... It matters. The answer depends.
00:51:51
Speaker
I know. You instantly went to... ah Because he hasn't asked serious You instantly went to like, how do I need a a therapist mode and responded. And doesn't talk blocked Casey. He didn't know what to do after that.
00:52:05
Speaker
I wasn't trying to talk like that. No, it's great. He needs that. I want to be your wingman, Casey. yeah i Appreciate it. Appreciate it. So I was just supposed to laugh at your joke, not take it as a question.
00:52:16
Speaker
That was what I was supposed to say. Well, yeah, I guess. It is a good question. level of self-reflection that is like, it's like, okay, it's too much. You need to think about somebody other than you for a minute.
00:52:27
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, well, I think there's I don't think this is controversial at all that probably most therapists would agree that, you know, that ideally ah sort of flourishing and well attuned life would have a mixture of self-reflection and inner life, ah you know, some awareness of what's going on internally such that we don't like fly off the handle. and We don't understand why we're reacting something so, you know, that we can like interact with people the way we want to interact with them.
00:52:56
Speaker
But then also like an others focused and outward focused element as well. Like you, you can become myopic a person who, you know, and it might feel like not that safe to be thinking about others, you know, so there could be a lot that could be because of anxiety.
00:53:13
Speaker
Maybe you just like, You can't imagine having all your own stuff in a row. And, and, you know, if you, if you use effort on someone else, like maybe you won't have that effort. Like, you know, yeah there's like ways you could imagine that somebody might get to that point.
00:53:27
Speaker
um And then what I would do is just, you know, don't know, I guess there's, it's complicated. It depends on factors, but you know, what I will often do with clients who I think are doing well is just sort of be like, okay, so are we, you ready to be done?
00:53:43
Speaker
You know, like, be done for a while. And I'll kick that to them and see what they say. Because either, and sometimes it's like, well, there's this other thing I haven't brought up. And you're like, okay, well, let's work on that.
00:53:56
Speaker
Or, and then other times it's like, yeah, yeah, I guess you're right. Like I can just use what I've learned for a while and then check back in if I'm having trouble. Like, so yeah you know, therapists in my view ought to do that.
00:54:09
Speaker
Like regularly, we ought to be I don't know, monthly or so checking in, and in our own minds about each client clients that, that may be done, you know? ah So, yeah, I think, I don't know which personal relationship I've just entered the fray of in your life. Casey, I hereby take no responsibility.
00:54:32
Speaker
Officially there are witnesses, Sam and the listeners. I love it. There is a, um that was a, a, Another one on the list. Maybe we'll get to it. ah Maybe it'll come up in our conversation the next one. But ah the therapy culture that we live in.
00:54:48
Speaker
ah right now where it's like, well, my therapist, I told my therapist all this stuff about everybody that makes me feel sad and uncomfortable. And they really, they worked really hard with me about putting up all these boundaries. So I just caught all these people out of my life.
00:55:02
Speaker
And it's like, I see that around in general. I see it online. I've seen it in my personal life. And it's just, there's a lot of um therapists out there who, if I knew their names, I would try to get them fired, I think, based on just what I hear people are going through in their therapy. I'm like, it sounds like so many people are going to therapy and having all of their worst inclinations validated in their saying they feel seen.
00:55:31
Speaker
And it's just someone yes anding them for 45 minutes so they can go out and be a shittier person into the real world. world Yeah, I do think ah there can be unreflective therapists who are not really aware of their own biases.
00:55:47
Speaker
And maybe some of those biases are like toward just like rampant affirmation. where, you know, where they maybe they you know, maybe they are uncomfortable with conflict, ah but maybe or maybe they have some other reason that they think like this particular type of person, you know, I just should only support them kind of a thing. But I I think that good therapists balance validation and challenge and like finding the growth edge.
00:56:21
Speaker
And I think most therapists do ultimately do that. They do both. ah But also another thing, though, that you don't really realize until you're a therapist, and this is not to let...
00:56:33
Speaker
therapists off the hook, but you can't control the way that your client interprets you and then re-narrates it.
00:56:44
Speaker
So I've had clients, for instance, come in and be like, like, you know how you said this? And then i was like, I didn't, I didn't say that. You know, like, never say that.
00:56:54
Speaker
i I thought that and then depending, you know i wouldn't necessarily just say that just depends on the situation. But like, i you know, that's happened before. where It's like, I don't think that's true even, you know, like so.
00:57:06
Speaker
And then I just think, oh, well, now i when I hear people talk about what their therapist said, I'm like, well, this happens pretty often that people like we create meaning out of our experiences right, which have multiple inputs. And so if I'm creating meaning out of a moment of insight in therapy, I might misremember who said what, which way.
00:57:27
Speaker
and i'm you and like And that might still be good for me. like You could get it wrong and have it still be genuinely insightful. And maybe like you you actually were able to kind of twist it a little bit to make it fit because you you really were ready for something like that. you know like It's not necessarily bad.
00:57:43
Speaker
It's just it's variable. like we just There's a lot of variables in how we encode growth related memories of what happened. Like we don't it's not we don't just run the tape back. So ah so recognizing that, you know, just you you also just learn to kind of hold that stuff a little more lightly.
00:58:03
Speaker
Um, and then, you know, some people can figure out how to be like a good client and say what they can tell their therapist needs wants to hear. ah and often that's not conscious, you know, that's just like you, maybe that's a role you played in your family or somewhere else that's comfortable for you. And you, you find yourself doing that for a year and before you know it, you haven't really made any progress, but you were a very good client and your clinician for whatever reason didn't catch it, you know? So,
00:58:31
Speaker
Yeah, we look for that kind of stuff, but it's, you know, if a client's not aware of it, it's sometimes hard to tell. So those can be mitigating factors that I think are related. does that make sense? Yeah, definitely. yeah those that Those are the things that I feel like I have had to become aware of is like, I'm going to walk through most situations with people in a setting like that, because this is what I did in church.
00:58:54
Speaker
um It's just like, oh, um' i'm goingnna I'm going to do everything in my power to make this person think that I'm fucking handling it right now. And it's like they obviously the opposite of that's the opposite of the intention of getting into a therapy. But yeah, you have to actually might let it show. Yeah. yeah Help in therapy, I think. So it's kind of a yeah two edged double edged sword.
00:59:17
Speaker
Yeah. If someone's doing well enough, then, you know, it should generally encourage a question. You know, you get you get curious about that. Yeah. Yeah. And then follow it. Would you do ad reads for better help?
00:59:30
Speaker
It's a good question. I've thought about that. I don't in principle have a problem with BetterHelp or, you know, as far as I know, any of these other kind of like trying to be this sort of middle offering ah because there is a real demand and and in some cases there's not enough supply, especially at lower price points.
00:59:53
Speaker
So it's kind of like I wouldn't I don't think of BetterHelp as exactly the same as finding a licensed therapist in your town that you could go see and go physically if possible. And, you know, not that telehealth does work. it It totally works. It's been shown.
01:00:12
Speaker
It works ah for me as a client, works for me as a clinician. But, you know, just to contrast it with like the most kind of full experience, like I don't think BetterHelp is equivalent.
01:00:24
Speaker
So I would be open. would probably do a little more research on it if I were approached, but I don't, I don't really do ad reads. So, um, i'm pretty i will i hope i will stick with this i believe that i will i will only ever do ad reads for like products i genuinely like just think yep i would just tell my friends this yeah yeah because i really believe in it uh and like cigarettes yeah like marlboro red cigarettes i actually do a little moonlighting for better help and that's how i treat anxiety you know
01:00:58
Speaker
is with super You know what helps me with anxiety? Smoking. you move You moonlight as a licensed therapist? Yeah, it's like Uber.
01:01:09
Speaker
like I got a down night. I'm going to take a couple sessions. Oh my gosh. and Most of the time I just recommend buying cigarettes. Yeah. Well, hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You got to move in the zins, man. It's kind the duct tape of the mental health world.
01:01:24
Speaker
Zins are where it's at for people now. You can just stuff those. You can squirrel those away in your cheeks everywhere you are all the time. Yeah. I've been really curious about trying like the lowest number of Zin. I'm not a smoker. I i don't have a a nicotine ah habit at all.
01:01:44
Speaker
But like I do like like would you I'm not recommending this, of course. i I have known that for years and years I could have the occasional cigarette and I never developed a nicotine addiction. I know that yeah many people do.
01:01:55
Speaker
um And it's much stronger and it's nothing to joke about. ah But since I know I don't, I'm like, do they make ones, you know, or twos? Like, well, would that just feel like I had a cigarette? Like, I'm just like my brain's moving. I'm just like, oh, I'm getting these ideas like Jack Black and Orange County.
01:02:12
Speaker
Like, would it give me that like energetic focus and stuff? And like, if it wasn't addictive for me, like, I don't know if that's not that different than just having a big soda or espresso shot.
01:02:25
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like this just all validates my medical treatment plan. Yeah, you are obviously on the right path. You really are. and There needs to be more studies on how it increases productivity. And that offsets a lot of the I mean, we're going to get cancer anyway. like There's microplastics in our balls like where we're we're cooked, guys. We might not even make it the next 20 years.
01:02:49
Speaker
Without nuclear warfare. So I don't know why anyone's still talking about cigarettes and drinking. Really? Wow. That sounds like a little bit of catastrophizing there, Sam. If I could put on my cognitive therapist hat.
01:03:02
Speaker
Okay. Little bit of catastrophizing. um Yeah. Well, should we, should we switch over and do the other one? Let's do it. Yeah. Okay. Thanks for joining us, Dan. We sure appreciate it It's fun. I get to turn the chair around and interview you guys. It'll be good. Yeah.
01:03:18
Speaker
I'm excited. ah Is it just you have permission right now? I feel like you're always doing a lot, but I might. Yeah, right now. for mom I well, we I thought that this might come up, but it didn't. But I'm working on a I'm currently playing around with a revamped music podcast.
01:03:37
Speaker
ah So the feed is still there. Pretty good vibrations. This is more yeah media. You know, it's it's like rock music mostly. um And so I'm going to start putting up some episodes there kind of sporadically as I workshop this thing, because even if it doesn't work out, it'll be fun to try.
01:03:54
Speaker
So, ah um yeah. So if you if you subscribe to Pretty Good Vibrations, then you'll get those as they come out. And then, yeah, your permission is is going strong. i'm i'm I'm like pretty fully back in the saddle now. I'm just finishing up a really intense year-long internship, ah kind of like a residency for psychologists.
01:04:16
Speaker
And that's wrapping up. And so I'm like really pumped to be potting a lot more and ah just able to follow creative ideas like segments and, you know, get into it. so Yeah, i'm i'm I'm back, man. i'm The boys are back in town.
01:04:34
Speaker
Hell yeah, man. Well, I appreciate... ah Yeah, I appreciate you. I don't need to blow smoke up your ass. I'll do that on yours. um That way everyone will realize how awesome everyone thinks you are. Oh my gosh. i I'll edit it out.
01:04:47
Speaker
No. ah Everyone should check out... ah You have permission. I've been... if I've been following your work since your political podcast that almost ruined your brain. Apparently it's a lot.
01:05:01
Speaker
We, we, it's a, yeah. And it's only gotten worse. So good thing you stepped away from that. But um no, man, you've been, you've been killing it for i what? 10 years in the podcast game.
01:05:12
Speaker
So nine now. Yeah. 2016. Yeah. So wild. My plan is to double down. Like I've just recently, like I'm thinking, I'll write a book and, you know I might do those things, but like, I'm, I think I want to become the best podcaster I can be.
01:05:28
Speaker
Yeah. Or like host, you know, like that kind of facilitator, interviewer, host, podcaster, facilitator, like that role, the kind of bringing it to a forum for ah ah general population.
01:05:41
Speaker
I like it. And I like talking more than writing. So I'm but i'm i'm all in. We're going to see where this thing goes. I'm going to take rigorous notes and I'm going to tell you exactly how great you did. I would literally would put you when very, very slightly on the payroll if you were willing to do that, Sam.
01:05:57
Speaker
yeah Maybe that's your gig economy. Maybe. Just ah being endlessly critical. Positive reinforcement. Oh, yeah, that one. Well, you'd have give both positive and negative for it to be worth it you know okay yeah All right. Well, we've got to switch over that we have enough time. let's switch over. All right. Thanks, everybody, for listening. We will see you next time.