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Ep. 232 — Pastor Mitchell Summerfield's Guide to Artisan Tax Returns
254 Plays23 days ago
This week we're catching up after a two-week hiatus and discussing the cautionary tale of Mitchell Summerfield, pastor of Word of God Church in Raleigh, NC! Remember the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) and the Economic Injury Disaster Loans (EIDL) that kept businesses afloat and employees secure in their jobs during the pandemic? Pastor Mitch remembers them well, having collected over $400k from those programs. Hallelujah, right? Well, almost. As it turns out, Pastor Mitch got pretty creative with his applications for program funding, and the IRS devil has come to collect his fraudulent funds due. In the immortal words of Qui-Gon Jinn, "When you gamble, my friend, eventually you lose..."
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Transcript
Welcome Back: Life Updates
00:00:00
Speaker
That is the move, dude. that it's such a It's a tale as old as time. Richie the Barber, right? Failed clown. Oh, yeah. Piece of shit. He just... Oh, now i'm ah now I cast out demons. like These people are nuts.
00:00:18
Speaker
It's... every Every massive failure can just go like, I mean, we just watched it with Russell Brand. ah Like these people who just. Oh, my God. Like it's like you just have to get Ben Shapiro to roll over and show his eight swollen teats and you just have to latch on to one of them.
00:00:42
Speaker
Suck the yellow chunks out of it. I that. ah that's He's a swollen old salad. It's like when you get that, um that what's ah what do you get and what are these like the smoothies that people get with those little balls in it?
00:01:01
Speaker
Oh, like a boba tea? Yeah, but it's like when your straw is too small to get the boba ball out and you have to like suck real hard until until it finally comes out and hits the back of your throat. It's like, imagine if those boba balls were like little chunks of phlegm.
00:01:16
Speaker
Oh.
00:01:19
Speaker
Got it.
00:01:39
Speaker
Hey everybody, we are back after a one week lapse for another episode of Growing Up Christian. I'm Sam. I'm Casey. And man, we are ah just excited to be here. We got some updates. Casey was out in the jungle licking frog butts and I've got some some big life updates.
House Hunting Adventures
00:02:00
Speaker
I have not heard anything about your vacation, Casey. So I am excited to hear that. But because I'm a narcissist, we'll start with me.
00:02:07
Speaker
um Okay. i yeah I had some, oh, sorry. I'm in the middle of texting with my realtor because i um i put an offer on a house after all this searching.
00:02:22
Speaker
And It got accepted today, about an hour ago, actually. Dang, congrats, man. That's awesome. Yeah. I'm crazy excited. um A little stressed because, you know, this is, um you know, i I'm stretching my financial limits here.
00:02:39
Speaker
I felt like I was already a little bit stretched. And... and Now I have to do my afterschool program next year in order in order to pay for this. But it'll end. I mean, it's it really like looking at houses, if people haven't, it's so stressful and frustrating because the market, as I've talked about, sucks.
00:03:01
Speaker
And I'd go like two weeks without a house showing up that I'm like, oh, I want to look at that. And you'd see some pop up and I'm like, this is the one. Like, this looks perfect. It's beautiful.
00:03:11
Speaker
And then you go in and you go, yeah, the pictures always show nicer. yeah So we looked at a couple where I'm like, couple in the spot we really wanted to be, which was the west side of Worcester. And last week we looked at like two houses that seemed like strong contenders.
00:03:26
Speaker
And then one of them, the size and the setup was really good, but it was also really dated. There were some things that weren't going to work super great for us and were like, all right, we're already stretching our budget and we're now we're talking about things that we need to renovate and there there goes any sort of rental.
00:03:43
Speaker
So that one was a bust. And then we went to this other one that I thought looked really cool. um Very peculiar, um but in a charming sort of way where I thought this could...
00:03:55
Speaker
this could work and we would have like the odd kind of stuff felt uh it was a split level and as most people know split levels you walk in the front door you go upstairs that's the main living area this one was reversed um the main living area was all in the in the bottom floor and it had this like white and green like kind of 70s looking tile and it was like weird, but cool.
00:04:21
Speaker
ah But then you get there and you're like, it just looked kind of more like a dirty basement that someone finished. Like it didn't, it, it just didn't look, I was like, I can't, I know um this ah immediately going down there. I was like, there's no chance, but the setup was cool, but it was also weird.
00:04:38
Speaker
ah So that was super disappointing. And both of those were at the top of it. And we were like, all right, That's it, I guess, for a minute. um So then this house comes up. It's a perfect setup. I mean, it's everything we wanted.
00:04:50
Speaker
ah Like, main floor is just kitchen room kitchen, dining room, living room, family room. Upstairs, four bedrooms. Had a primary, like, bedroom with the with the bathroom, ah like the ensuite bathroom. It's tiny, but it it'll work.
00:05:06
Speaker
And it was a flip, so it was like this beautifully redone like house. I mean, as soon as we walked in, it was like, this is top-notch work. In this market, there's a lot of shit-ass fucking contractors who are like,
00:05:21
Speaker
trying to buy up cheap homes and do quick flips, whether you like, I think you spent 50 grand on this and you're trying to upsell it like 200. two hundred Like you're trying to make like 150 grand and they sit on the market for a while. I looked at one. I can't remember if I talked about on the podcast or not, but like- The basement. Did I talk about it? Where like the, there's like the wet paint on the stairs during the showing and stuff.
00:05:42
Speaker
Like it was like a disaster. Yeah. Yeah. Like it tracked paint through the house. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like we've seen some real shit flip jobs. Um, and those are just red flags everywhere. Cause like when you're flipping an old house in Worcester, it's like this house was built in like 1840, maybe 1920, but still like a flip is a good way to cover up shit. You don't want to deal with.
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah. Old Joanna Stain style. Yeah. So like bodies and the floorboards and shit. Um, so yeah, you just like, you never really know what you're getting and it's hard to trust. So, um, but when we walked into this house that we made an offer on, like the flip was gorgeous. Our realtor was like, this is honestly one of the best flips I've seen in my career.
00:06:28
Speaker
Um, It seems solid. Obviously, the home inspection will determine. But we were so confident in it. like we We made the home inspection for informational purposes only. we weren't even using We're not going to use the home inspection for negotiations or anything like that.
00:06:44
Speaker
um If there's a huge glaring issue, you know we talk. Or if it's not something we to address, we walk away. But if it's a big thing, it'll come up in another home inspection. They're kind of stuck dealing with it. wave But either way, we're like that it just feels like something you can really like rely on.
00:06:59
Speaker
um And the best part is they have this and immaculately redone outdoor patio.
New Home and Neighborhood
00:07:05
Speaker
There's a screened-in porch. And it's this gorgeous in-ground pool. and It's very nice.
00:07:11
Speaker
Never thought I'd want a pool. I used to be against the idea of having a pool for a long time, but now my kids are older and like at my in my in-laws have a pool, and that's obviously, like I said, where we're staying right now.
00:07:23
Speaker
My father-in-law opened the pool on Mother's Day. We have not had a great start of summer. It's been... Not warm. And it doesn't matter. Like the water was like 62 degrees. The air was 55 degrees and my kids were swimming like they fucking love swimming. And I'm like with Jill and I being teachers yeah working in schools, whatever. It's like we just have an entire summer to enjoy being in our house.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah. Excuse me. So I was just, you know, again, top end of our budget. I'm a little stressed about how it's going to all play out, but. You love stress. You know, I do. I do love it. And I'm early on in this, like in my career. So ah the beautiful thing about working in schools is you look at a contract for the district.
00:08:09
Speaker
And I know 20 years from now how much I'm going to be making. So like, yeah, it'll be tight for a couple of years. And then as I like move up those steps, whatever, I'll be fine. It'll be great. and ah with another kid on the way. And I'm like, this is just, this is the this is a perfect house. And so as soon as we were like, as soon as we saw it, we just knew we needed to make an offer.
00:08:31
Speaker
Got accepted today. We went over, did the whole over asking thing and kind of just, there was a lot, I guess there was a lot of offers on it and we hit it just right. So We hopefully will close around July 10th and well I won't be displaced. I can set up um I can set up a new place to record where I'm not ah look. It doesn't look like I'm into some weird white void.
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah. Fellowship hall. And I mean, the pool that I mean, the pool is great. But the best part is like I can hire a pool boy and fuck him while my wife goes out on like girls brunch, you know? Oh, yeah. Classic fall. We'll move.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah. You know. taken after Taken after the father of the alma mater. It would be funny to hire a pool boy and then like when he shows up to meet you for the first time, like present him with his uniform.
00:09:21
Speaker
And it's just like a Borat swimsuit with a name tag. A little singlet. Yeah. Slinkini.
00:09:30
Speaker
that's ah That's awesome, man. But there's nothing to actually put the pin on. You have to like stick it directly into his peck. Just stick Yeah, just a little trickle of blood. Draw a little blood. Ooh, let me get that. and you just like wipe it with your index finger and do so.
00:09:44
Speaker
Sucking off your finger there. Yeah, big suck noise. Yeah, that's like this You go, this will work. Yeah, that'll do.
00:09:53
Speaker
Oh man, I'm glad you found a place. And i didn't know that you got the offer done, that the offer got accepted, but you sent me the listing yesterday, I think, and it is a really cool house. Very nice.
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah. I have like, and I have a, it's on a decent amount of land at the back of the property. It it hits a, um i ah what do you call It's like an old access town access road, a little bit back into the woods. So no one's going to build back there.
00:10:20
Speaker
Looking at my house, no neighbors on the right. Guy on the left takes great care of his property. I met him when I showed up to see the house the first time. And I got there early. My realtor was running a little late. I talked to him for like 20 minutes.
00:10:33
Speaker
I don't like a lot of people when I meet them. I don't usually want to talk to people when I meet them, but he was seemed real nice. Like he's been there for 25 years.
00:10:44
Speaker
He yeah. I mean, i he it seems like a good spot. I think and my kids are, beyond and i don't have like a complete psycho assuming i'm guessing um i i don't have a complete psychopath for a neighbor anymore yeah hopefully that would be a nice change so yeah dude uh which is oh yeah let's so what what's up with this guy No, I was so is at my house that I i haven't quite sold yet.
Reflection on Past Neighbors
00:11:12
Speaker
I mean, it's I'm closing this week, but I'm doing my last minute shit over there. And the guy directly across the street from me, I was talking to because my neighbor who's off who's just lost his mind, um I don't remember what episode, how many episodes ago I talked about that. But, you know, I do care about him as much as he's lost it.
00:11:31
Speaker
And I went, I know his grass was like, his lawn was a foot tall. Like he... And he always keeps good care of his lawn. So I was like, that's weird. So I went over to check on him. He had given me the door code to his house. So I thought I was going to type it in because I was knocking and there was no answer.
00:11:48
Speaker
um But then I'm like, I hope I, opened the his front door and it just, yeah, it was open, which is super unlike him. Even when he's home, he keeps his doors locked. And he's pretty paranoid.
00:11:59
Speaker
Yes, he is very paranoid. And I went in, well, I didn't even go in at first because he's also, because of his paranoia and his jumpiness, like you don't like to sneak up on a motherfucker like that. So yeah, that seems like a real bad idea.
00:12:12
Speaker
I kind of just opened the door and said his name, nothing. But then I'm like, something's kind of fucking weird here. So I ended up going back and I went inside and just around the just went into his living room. Usually he's like passed out on the couch or something. He wasn't there. So I was like, right, I'm not going to.
00:12:28
Speaker
I'm not going upstairs. I'm not like looking for a thing. i So I left, but the guy across the street from me was out. I was like, Hey, what's, you know what's going on with ah this guy over here? He was like, Oh, well, do you have a few minutes? I can fill you in. I was like, yeah, I got some time.
00:12:42
Speaker
I guess ah he was raging out driving his $80,000. eighty thousand dollar It was probably not quite that much. I mean, he's probably got like a $60,000 Maserati all tricked out. He'd,
00:12:53
Speaker
likes to fly up and down the roads. And so I guess he was driving around. and This guy's never sober by day. And it's like a gamble. And he's hopped up on prescription pain meds too. So he pulls in and like the two guys at the end of the like down the street, we're working on a, like fixing a lawnmower and he gets out of his car and he's like, he always, he just kind of like,
00:13:14
Speaker
It's almost like he doesn't know what where he is or what he's doing. like i don't It's like ah he's in a hallucination or something, and he gets out of his car. He's like, you motherfuckers, going to fucking kill you you. Fucking fuck you guys up. like He loses it.
00:13:27
Speaker
And one of the guys is old, and then the other guy is probably like, you know, late thirties, early forties. So he goes and he's, yeah he's big. He's gotta be like, you know, six, three.
00:13:38
Speaker
Um, and he's a big dude too. So like I'd never fuck with him. And so he, that guy goes, Hey man, talking to the older guy. He's like, why don't you, you should go inside. I'm I'll fucking to deal with this shit. So he, he ends up walking down to my neighbor's house.
00:13:54
Speaker
And my neighbor comes out screaming at him. And he's like, dude, if you honestly, like, if you want to do this, let's just fucking do. that So my neighbor pulls a knife out and like, oh goes after him.
00:14:07
Speaker
But he's so, I mean, he's always so wasted and his leg doesn't really work. His arms aren't working great. Cause he's, because of his injury. So he can't really lift his arm up past his shoulder.
00:14:18
Speaker
And the guy just kind of fucking, it sounds like he just kind of like slapped him in the face. Just like, fuck you. Like, kind of just like, you're a bitch. So he slapped him. And He, uh, so my neighbor goes full idiot and calls the police. it was like, I'm being assaulted by, by the guy down the street.
00:14:35
Speaker
Well, the cops show up and they're like, my neighbor has a ring camera that records everything. So they're like, well, let's just check the ring camera. And all they see is this guy go nuts and like pull a knife on this guy and try to assault them. So they arrested him.
00:14:49
Speaker
Um, and so I guess he's locked up somewhere right now, but they, they revoked his license and ah Because he was driving around like an intoxicated bag. And um but yeah, so just talking with my neighbor about him, though, ah the guy who lives next door was like, dude, he's like he's literally in full blown hallucination mode. Like because I would know I would tell you how he would like walk around screaming on the phone all day long.
00:15:16
Speaker
And this guy was like, I went over to him and was like, who are you yelling at? And I took the phone out of his hand and there was nobody on the phone. Like he wasn't talking. Oh God.
00:15:27
Speaker
And he had like built this whole thing up in his mind that he's like this big time drug dealer. And he really like, yeah, I mean, I saw his stash once are a part of it. He made it sound like he had a lot, but he had like a ah to go like a trap, a 16 ounce travel mug with a bag full of Coke in it and was just like, yeah, like acting like he's moving weight.
00:15:48
Speaker
And the guy I was talking to was like, yeah, that was that's enough Coke for like that's like a rich guy's yacht yacht party week. Like it's nothing. It's a lot of Coke for people but to do.
00:15:59
Speaker
But like you're not a big time dealer. Sorry, I'm getting over a cold. ah So that's like, he's like, it's kind of small time, but he, in his mind, like he's like running this cartel.
00:16:10
Speaker
It's like, ah and so he's just been losing it for a while. Last time he was in the hospital, his livers and kidneys started shutting down. He got home. He started drinking again, right? I honestly won't be surprised if the detox kills them.
00:16:21
Speaker
um But i I know you sort of some way care about this guy. But to me, it's kind of like, oh, well, I know there's there's a point at which somebody I don't know what to do with them, but it's like they should just be like smashed and compressed into like, you know, pergo flooring or something like that.
00:16:39
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And it's tough because I've known this guy for eight years and for most, for almost all of it, he was, he was a wild dude, a little unhinged at times, but like he was, he's a good guy.
00:16:53
Speaker
um But now that he's drinking himself to the point where like he's hallucinating, like his body shutting down, like even if he gets sober, like he's never going to be the same guy. he was He's just, he's, he's just finished. Like he, he destroyed his brain.
00:17:08
Speaker
And there's most people like, there's a point to which you don't really come back. And the, the psychosis just hangs out. Even if you're sober, like it's almost like alcohol induced schizophrenia.
00:17:21
Speaker
And like, cause he would just spend the wildest yarns about like, How my other neighbors were actually big time drug dealers too. And they're trying to force them out of his home because they want to set up cameras in the whole neighborhood.
00:17:34
Speaker
And it's like, not obviously that's insane. We live in small town, whatever the fuck. And as soon as I listed my house, nobody in the neighborhood wanted to buy it because they're not trying to build a big drug peddling ring.
00:17:49
Speaker
on a quiet dead end dirt road Lake me. Like it's insane. So, uh, I do like the the only, like, I feel slightly relieved that the people who but are buying my house won't have to deal with him. I did feel a little guilty.
00:18:04
Speaker
Um, and yeah, just, I, I felt a little bad about them. Uh, buying and then being surprised by this complete nutcase you know especially because it had gotten worse since i left like i don't even remember i did mentioned him being out in the street naked and like just confront you about it and you'd be like look he'll be dead soon yeah it's time to be dead soon don't worry about it and part of just like be a champ and wait it out Yeah.
00:18:33
Speaker
And a part of me was like new people won't put like new people won't have a history with him. You know, like when it's someone you knew and were friends with and care about that's going through that. Like also he was so unhinged. I was like, I don't even know if I'm safe if he believes that I'm the one that called the cops on him.
00:18:50
Speaker
Like, I kind of was weighing my options where I'm like, I don't love having this next door, but I also don't know what he might do if he thinks, because you know how addicts are. Addicts are like, you ruined my life. It's like, no, dude, that was the drugs and alcohol for three straight years. That's what ruined it. But they don't see it that way.
00:19:09
Speaker
So... I just didn't know what like he might do, but I knew new people in the house would never put up with they in day one. They'd call the cops, you know, and it, it would have probably resolved itself somewhat quickly.
00:19:23
Speaker
We, when I was talking to my neighbor about him, was just like, yeah, we, we should have done something soon. We played this out way longer than on. There's just always that little glimmer of hope that like,
00:19:34
Speaker
that one of those times would be like a rock bottom. have to deal with it. Like, yeah. Or like have that come to Jesus moment. A lot of addicts hit that rock bottom and they're like, Oh shit, I fucked my entire life up.
00:19:47
Speaker
Now I need to take care of it. And he, he just never
Understanding Addiction
00:19:50
Speaker
got to that point. And I think, I think he's like his wet brain is so bad at this point where he, I don't even think he has the mental faculties to like break this cycle at this point, but not my problem anymore, baby. Yeah.
00:20:03
Speaker
Nope. It's kind of where the road leads. nope Well, good riddance. I guess, uh, either this is your come to Jesus movement or, you know, i guess just, I don't know, go ahead and croak. Stop plaguing everyone else with your existence.
00:20:18
Speaker
Yeah. I had those fantasies a lot when I was living there. Like he can't live much longer. Like the amount of times I was like, I just why are they contemplating household chemicals. You might like. Yeah.
00:20:32
Speaker
One day a friend came over to like pick something up and she was like, what the fuck? Like, cause she could hear him. And I was in such a bad mood. It was getting ready to like, act like show my house and stuff. And I was getting, I'm like, I didn't want to be outside cause he was going nuts. And I'm like, Oh my, I literally was like, I I'm fucking sick of this shit. I hope he fucking just dies. Like he just needs to die.
00:20:54
Speaker
And I don't think I really feel that way, but i I have at times. And it's just, it is sad. I don't want him. I would have loved for him to get help. I mean, his kids don't talk to him anymore. Like he, he burnt every bridge that he has.
00:21:07
Speaker
And now he's sitting in some fucking lockup, probably who seeing God knows what as his liver starts to shut down. it's ah It's a life lesson, kids.
00:21:19
Speaker
There's no such joy in the tavern as in the road there too. Exactly. That's the kind of story that like that evangelical pastors use. like i would be i could I feel like I could make some money off of being an evangelical pastor.
00:21:33
Speaker
I mean, that's like a four-week sermon series on why you shouldn't drink or do drugs, right? Yeah, which I think we're going to get to in a little bit. Yeah. Right.
Costa Rica Adventure
00:21:46
Speaker
Man. Yeah. So I just got back from Costa Rica. Yeah. Spent a good eight, nine days there, something like that. And getting sweaty in the jungle. Dude, it's it's one of the coolest places on Earth.
00:21:59
Speaker
yeah like i don't know i mean it's it's all in what you like to do like i could see a lot of people not really enjoying it in the same way that we do because i mean we just all we did was just like hike around and look for animals that's that's it every day of the trip we'd get up eat breakfast and then like take off in a direction looking for bugs and snakes and frogs and lizards and whatnot that was crazy to me i would be too afraid of getting like bit by something poisonous.
00:22:26
Speaker
Um, like, i mean, you, you seem to know, I mean, you're a layman at it for sure. But like compared to like anybody, like you, you think about it, like you're, when you see new things, you're like, Oh, what is that? You want to figure it out? Like, I would just be like, I'm going to step in the wrong direction, get bit by a snake and die out.
00:22:46
Speaker
Like my idea of a vacation is an all-inclusive beach. you know that's my speed i uh the idea of hiking through the jungle for nine days just to like see a different colored frog is absolutely insane to me but i do love the exta instagram stories it is so fun it's so fun it's like i think if you were if think if you were there and along for it like it's so exciting to like stumble across you because you're like looking at every tree and trying to look every every leaf and look for like a silhouette or something like that and then all of a sudden like you spot like at one point because i i had a couple of things like on my list that i really wanted to find one of which is a red-eyed tree frog which is you know like
00:23:32
Speaker
It's like the frog, right? You literally sound like an autistic sixth grader right now.
00:23:41
Speaker
But i know I never seen one before. And ah like they're supposedly like very prevalent there, you know, but the last time we were there, I i mean, I looked everywhere. I could not find one. So we're walking around the jungle and stuff like that at the second place that we stayed and, you know, looking at the ground and looking at the trees and stuff. And all of a sudden, like I turned my flashlight and there's just like big red eyes, like balanced on this stick. And it was just like such an exciting moment of like finally,
00:24:11
Speaker
like pinpointing one there's definitely some dangerous stuff there like um we never did find a fertile ants which is like the super dangerous poisonous snake there venomous snake but uh they're like a pit viper it's a it's called a fertile ants and i think locally they call it a tercia pillow but i heard ants yeah i was thinking you were looking for ants i did have an experience with some ants would be crazy too i know ants can get pretty big out in different places um yeah so they they have uh bullet ants which like central and south america is full of them and it's supposedly it's the most painful insect sting on the planet it's i guess i've heard i i uh when i was a but a wee lad uh my brother had
00:24:59
Speaker
He was interested in like books on insects, and and that's one of the ones that stuck with me. The ones that stuck with me are the like the ones that were like – because you'd instantly like flip through the book. they would have You know how with a kid's book, it's like they just have like that scale on the side of like how whatever they're scaling. It's like the most – Terror threat level red.
00:25:18
Speaker
Yeah, like the most painful whatever, and they'd be like pain, deadly, whatever, and they would just have your different – how high up on that bar it was and bullet ant was up there for like pain. And then there was a fish, um, stonefish.
00:25:33
Speaker
is Maybe. um But the story stuck with me because it was like, if it stung you, I think it would sting you. Maybe it would bite. I don't think fish bite. I think they probably had like poisonous barbs or something on it.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yeah. they like the The story in this book was like, the pain was so excruciating and it would like shoot up the whole arm that the dude like wrapped his hand in a cloth and set it on fire to...
00:25:57
Speaker
to like oh Just dull the pain, to like destroy the nerve endings and dull the pain. and Focus on the family children's book. Yeah. yeah And and it then it proceeded into like a little vignette on the the fires of hell and why you want to avoid Yeah, stonefish are supposed to be really bad.
00:26:18
Speaker
Like, I don't know if they can kill you or not. I don't know if it's that sort of thing, but I know that that it's supposed to be excruciating. And you never see one. I mean, they they just sit on the ground like a rock and you step on it and it goes right through the bottom of your shoe into your foot.
00:26:35
Speaker
I mean, the ones that are like where ah I do that's so fascinating about like the evolution of these creatures, right? Where you're like they it creates a pain so intense that you just wish it was poisonous.
00:26:48
Speaker
But like but there's no long lasting issue. like It's literally just like the most excruciating pain you could experience. And then when it's done, it's it's like over.
00:26:59
Speaker
And that's such a wild concept to me, ah because when you think of like wild animals,
Birdwatching in Costa Rica
00:27:04
Speaker
like. Yeah, like, like survival of the fittest, right? Like, avoid the things that kill you. Sure. But like, it's surprising, like, that there are these creatures that are it's because animals don't, my understanding is don't experience pain the same way that like people do. Because when you when people experiencing it, they have all these thoughts running through their head where they go like, I'm gonna die. And then you start having panic attacks. Like, it it hits humans in like high cognition creatures at a different level than like,
00:27:33
Speaker
You'll see a dog that like nod its leg off because it got stuck between rocks and they just hobble a lot like a human. They don't like they're not like on that mission where they're just like, I have to keep going. Like you you just lay down and go, please, God, take my life. I wish I was.
00:27:49
Speaker
Yeah, like ah animals aren't planning for the future. And so they don't experience dread. o Yeah, I could see that. It's like they evolved weird specifically to fuck with humans is what it feels like. Well, you know, Eve had to eat that apple.
00:28:05
Speaker
Yeah. that Before Eve the apple, stonefish would just tickle your foot and then you'd get an erection. but That was back when T-Rex's giant teeth were for eating roots.
00:28:17
Speaker
Yeah, they were candy corns and you could suck on them. yeah Yeah, I did see some bullet ants and I, so we were walking along, we saw him a few different times and And it's like the whole time you're looking around and you're like, oh, is that a bullet ant?
00:28:34
Speaker
I don't know. It's pretty big. like does's it And then you see one and you go, oh, that's a bullet ant. Like they're yeah like an inch long. They're huge. And you would just see them like in certain spots.
00:28:46
Speaker
And the one time we were like out on the last night, we're walking around in front of the Airbnb, like looking for stuff like in the lawn too, you know? And ah April points out that there's like bullet ants on the sidewalk. And so we're sitting there looking at them. And all of a sudden I look down and there's one crawling up my pant leg.
00:29:02
Speaker
Oh my God. I like full on spazzed. I just like boom. Just like the, didn like tucked elbows, like slapping at him, trying to get him off me. No, I mean, I got him off, but, oh man, I didn't want to do that.
00:29:18
Speaker
Dude, I didn't think that is ah any moderate level of danger. i Like I was driving home from work last week and i was pretty close to my house thank god i was coming up on a gas station and from ah from my visor like a wasp flew out and just kind of like flew past my eyes and landed on my shoulder and i did i can't even express to you like i no one i mean there's no pageantry right nobody's around just in my i'm holding on to my string wheel i'm just like ah
00:29:50
Speaker
ah like screaming at the top of my lungs and it like it it just kind of leaves my shoulder and flies to the back of my car like i'm swerving all over the fucking road i pull into the gas station like as tense as i've ever been and i get out it's like that scene from fucking uh tommy boy right when they jump by the car like be that's what what was running through my mind after I got out. Cause I like, I pulled in and just jumped out of my car, opened all four car door and was like looking around. Like I did find it and I killed it.
00:30:25
Speaker
Uh, but it was, that was it. Like that was, I'm I, and I, I think the idea of being somewhere where like things that can sting you and hurt you are like way more commonplace. I do. I would not be able to handle that stress.
00:30:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's you just have to like watch where you're going, basically. I mean, that's that's what it comes down to. Like, I mean, and and I mean, and we didn't really have any like dangerous encounters, but like the first night we got there.
00:30:53
Speaker
And I was sick and not feeling very good. and But I just wanted to like look around outside a little bit, you know, since we just got into the place. So I like walk off the porch and I'm like shining a light around and stuff. I look down and there's like a little snake coiled up right next to the step.
00:31:09
Speaker
And it's it's like a it's a little hog nosed pit viper, like a juvenile one. I mean, probably eight, 10 inches long. Did you have to look it up? Or did you ID Like, did you ID that, like, just off the brain?
00:31:23
Speaker
I knew it was a pit viper because, I mean, it had the head shape and you could see, like, the pits on it on its face. But, yeah, I had to look up and see what what it was. It was, like, it was pretty small, too, so, like, you had to really look to see, like, the little growth on the end of its nose.
00:31:38
Speaker
But there was two of them. they're like Is there, like, an app where you can take a picture of these things and the AI tells you? Or do you have, do you have like, a little... Do you walk around a little a pocket book of like, it's like a pocket Bible for creatures?
00:31:51
Speaker
Yes, both. you You can take a picture and like scan it and Google or whatever will identify it for it. I think there's some apps that are better at it, but. ah We also have like books along that we took just to keep track of everything. Yeah. But it's dude, it's so crazy. Like how much is there?
00:32:11
Speaker
Because so the first place we went was like ah it's near the city of ah Oh, but I can't remember what it's, what the name of it is, but, uh, it's, it's called Rancho Naturalista and it's worth looking If you're thinking about doing anything like this, highly recommend It was so cool.
00:32:28
Speaker
And it's like a birdwatching lodge, like way out in the jungle, you know, kind of far from the major population centers. There's a little, little tricky to get there, but, um, it's, it's like all inclusive. Like they, they make meals and stuff for you, like breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And, um,
00:32:45
Speaker
It's like communal dining. You're eating with the other people from the thing. And April and I do not talk to people and our of our own free will ever. Like my parents will be like, yeah, we met some people at the resort. And i like I'm like, I don't know how you do that because I don't talk to anybody.
00:33:02
Speaker
But so I was like, well, I don't know. Like, let's do the breakfast thing the first morning. And if it's awkward, then we'll figure we'll we'll find a grocery store or something for the rest of the trip.
00:33:13
Speaker
And dude, like everybody we met at this place was super cool and like did something interesting in their like at home. I mean, there was like ah an artist couple that was there like painting murals in some of the rooms and they live on a, they live in ah a similar sort of lodge. That's like a half a day's boat trip up the Amazon river in Peru.
00:33:38
Speaker
There was really older couple there that like the guy was a retired, he'd done a few different things, but he was like an ex union leader in Seattle and his wife illustrated children's books.
00:33:50
Speaker
Super nice people kind of there on their, you know, doing a retirement trip sort of thing. There was a really cool couple from Texas that were like, you know, about our age and that they were kind of prepping themselves to make like a pretty big career move so that they can work more with like nature and stuff. We hung out with them quite
Travel Tips for Costa Rica
00:34:08
Speaker
a bit. They kind of invited us on like a guided birdwatching thing one day, which was really fun. Just stuff that I would never have done, you know, on my own.
00:34:17
Speaker
yeah And like the last day that we're there at this place, like this, this lady and her son are are at the table when we get down for dinner and somebody we hadn't met yet. So we're chatting. Her son's really funny kid.
00:34:30
Speaker
And he says something about NASA. Like while we're sitting there, I just thought he was goofing around or whatever. And he's like, no, she works for NASA. Oh, really? Like you actually do. And he goes, she got a presidential medal of freedom.
00:34:45
Speaker
I'm like, what? She's like, that's that's enough, that's enough. So we get to talk to this lady, and she's like the lead scientist on the James Webb Space Telescope.
00:34:56
Speaker
Dude, that's fucking crazy. Yeah. Just like just a lady we met at the table and she was really cool. And she answered a whole bunch of questions from people about, you know, science and discovery and, you know, the funding cuts that they're going through and all this stuff. It was just fascinating.
00:35:14
Speaker
It's like, I don't know. It was such a good experience. And it was like, kind it might have been kind of a paradigm shift in ah in a few ways where, you know, we were like, man, i we need to find more places like this. Like, this is where we need to go on trips, you know?
00:35:28
Speaker
Yeah. Dude, that's really cool. So to give you an example, though, of like how diverse everything is, I mean, it's one of the most biologically diverse places on earth, but, you know, we've been looking into birdwatching and stuff more since then because we had so much fun down there. And um so in Kansas...
00:35:45
Speaker
which is not a bad spot for birdwatching because there's a lot of migrations and stuff that come through. they've i think they had identified like, it was like 470 species of birds have been identified in Kansas in one portion or another. One of the one of the national parks that we went to and in Costa Rica has over 500 identified species in one park.
00:36:08
Speaker
It's crazy. like They had these big gardens and stuff around one of the lodges where we were hiking and everything. And it's just... Dude, the hummingbirds are like horseflies. They're just everywhere, flying all over the place.
00:36:20
Speaker
Dude, hummingbirds are so cool. I love, ever like around here, anyone who sees a hummingbird is, oh my, oh my God, did you see that? That was a hummingbird. It's like a fairy. yeah It's like spotting a fairy in the wild.
00:36:32
Speaker
Yeah, it's awesome. You're noticing like how different some of them look from each other. And then sure enough, there's like a sign posted in the garden that's like, you know, hummingbird species of the Arenal Observatory or whatever.
00:36:44
Speaker
There's 36 species of hummingbirds listed just for their observatory. I didn't even know there were that. I thought a hummingbird was hummingbird. So yeah, it's I mean, it just I don't know. I could go on and on. But like, yeah, it's just got it so much fun. I feel like.
00:37:01
Speaker
I don't know. I think I feel like we're at a point in our lives where like we've put such a like a a targeted bead on like what we enjoy doing for fun that I don't know. That's what's great about going down there is it's just like every moment that you're there.
00:37:18
Speaker
you're doing that exact thing. And it's, it's a blast. That's so sick, dude. When you like, so you stayed at like the, um like, like a bed and breakfast in the jungle essentially for a little bit, but yeah. ah But an Airbnb too, like what, um I guess the Airbnb that you were at, was that just like, like you just found it or is it like through, is it like a something that people connect with to see and experience like the area?
00:37:46
Speaker
Yeah. I just looked at a whole bunch of them on there because we knew the area that we wanted to go to. so I just looked at a whole bunch of listings and i I really wanted one that was like private out on its own that had access to like woods and trails and stuff because we really wanted to go look around at night and look for stuff. And some places are really touchy about that. You know, they don't want you like wandering into the woods in the evening.
00:38:10
Speaker
But this this place was like up on the side of this mountain. like kind of It was small. i mean it was maybe like, you know, eight, nine hundred square feet, just basically two rooms in this place. But it was comfortable, fully appointed.
00:38:23
Speaker
And um it's I mean, it it sat on probably like four acres of land up on this mountain full of, you know, everything there is just flowers and trees and plants. and And then you could walk right out the back door onto the trails and go down to the river and stuff. And we found a bunch of really cool stuff there.
00:38:40
Speaker
But it's just like, it's like such a, I was, i had a lot of anxiety about going out of the country, like last year when we went for the first time, just because I haven't done it a lot. You know, you feel a little intimidated by it because it's so unfamiliar, but um yeah it's like such an very easy place to go.
00:38:57
Speaker
Really? It's like, yeah. I mean, like driving the roads are all, are all good. Like ah everywhere you go, they take, you know, tap on your card. So like, you don't even have to exchange currency or anything like that.
00:39:10
Speaker
Pretty much everywhere you go, somebody speaks at least enough English to get you by. So like, I don't know. It's just a really easy place to go do that sort of thing. i love how like, not you specifically, but when Americans are talking about like going somewhere on vacation, like, yeah, it's great. Like people, yeah, you can go there because a lot of people know enough English. But like, then you come here and people are like, why the fuck would we learn a second language? stupid?
00:39:36
Speaker
Like, yeah. Talk Americans. It's so dumb. Like there's so much value in knowing like more than one language, just enough. You don't have to speak it fluently, but to be like, get by. Like, i don't i think that's so funny. Cause that is something that you'll hear a lot of people say.
00:39:52
Speaker
And then when it comes to this place, it's like, It's like a personal insult if you are talking if they're talking to somebody who yeah that they can't communicate with.
Sustainable Energy Discussion
00:40:02
Speaker
if If anyone does anything to accommodate a person who doesn't speak English as their first language, it's like a betrayal of your American principles. It's so stupid, dude.
00:40:12
Speaker
I did see you betray some American principles in one of your stories. You did you took a real hard shot at the U.S. when you talked about how well they preserved their land. Wow, dude.
00:40:24
Speaker
I do feel guilty about it. yeah the I was just... but Oh, man. I've had so many i've had so many like frustrating thoughts about like boomers lately.
00:40:37
Speaker
It's just... Yeah. like I got... Ah, dude, I, I really like this person. But it's just like, it's just like such a quintessential example of like, what happens all the time is like, um like a person sent me a couple of messages.
00:40:53
Speaker
And in it, there were two news stories that they were sharing with me. And it's all kind of related to my work automotive stuff and whatnot. And both of them, I was like, that's crazy. Like, I can't believe that that's the case. That's crazy.
00:41:07
Speaker
And i I Google searched both of them and both of them were untrue. mean, i mean i why, why send this without at least looking first? Like, that's a crazy announcement. Like there would be articles about this, you know?
00:41:23
Speaker
Right. But I've done that too. I mean, I shared a video a while back of, ah I forget what conflict was happening at the time, but I sent somebody video game footage. It was like, yeah, I was like, dude, look at this anti-aircraft gun. This is crazy. And it's like some airplane game. Yeah.
00:41:46
Speaker
No, it's so funny. I was thinking about um how poorly we take care of this, this world when, um so one of the things I'm concerned about with the house I'm buying is it's all electric heat, which could be,
00:41:58
Speaker
really expensive and fucking cold ass Massachusetts, but it has like 28 solar panels. Uh, yeah, it's a newer roof. So you don't have to worry about like redoing the roof before the solar panels. are Solar panels are good for like, they're pretty much guaranteed for about 20 years, but after a while they will lose like their generative power.
00:42:19
Speaker
um In like 30 years, it's just time to get rid of them. And we made like this such a big push and they're becoming so common. And then I'm like, in 30 years, we're going to have to create brand new landfills just to put solar panel. Like we don't even have a way to recycle these fucking things.
00:42:37
Speaker
Well, it's not really saving the planet. It's just like buying us 30 years before we ruin it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, dude, it's that's such a rabbit hole to go down to. Like you can do that with so many things. And it's like I at some point you have to just kind of throw up your hands and go, I don't know. I'm doing my best.
00:42:56
Speaker
I don't know what the answer is here. Yeah, that's for sure. Let's go back to coal. Right. Because even when you talk about electric cars, it's like, Yeah, we're having like eight year olds, like just dig in the dirt for elements until their fingertips are nubs, just bloody nubs.
00:43:12
Speaker
And we're like, look at how great we're doing. we're making the We're making the world a better place by going to solar, which uses electricity, which is powered by coal. and like it's just all it's all fucking racket.
00:43:23
Speaker
Like I I love the idea of renewable energy, but like when you mix it with capitalism, it's just going to like rape the planet and kill children. Yeah, it is true.
00:43:34
Speaker
I don't know what the answer is. I'm just very i'm I'm I am certain that we're not going to be the ones to come up with it. No, and it's not. a And that's what's crazy is like when you when you think of like, yeah, you can move the needle right with some grassroots movements. But at the end of the day, it's like I just I'm trying to pay my fucking bills and you you're giving me a better way to do that.
00:43:55
Speaker
I don't know. it I don't know what. Yeah, I don't know what the answer is. I just know that like my salary and where I'm at in our social hierarchy is has absolutely nothing to do with it and i don't know we're all just like you said doing the best we can with what we have the answer is just choose whatever's the most convenient thing and believe in that Yeah, which is a great segue because speaking of choosing the most convenient thing and doing the best of what we have, we've got a fun guy to talk about before we ah before we round this
Fraud in Ministry: A Case Study
00:44:27
Speaker
out.
00:44:27
Speaker
We can't go a whole episode. Yeah, it's it's nice to catch up, but we like to bring a little something to the table, too you know? and Yeah, and this this story was... very interesting so sam found this story and i kind of went down a rabbit hole trying to find out some more information about who this guy is and where some of the paths cross with other people and it's just it's so hard to make sense out of where people turned to the dark side you know right yeah because it is a turning point when people like climb a certain a certain ladder right where it's like
00:45:03
Speaker
but is like we've We've had this conversation in various capacities ah over the years where it's like, is it a personality type that doesn't really care about certain aspects of what it means to be a human and to...
00:45:18
Speaker
take care of others. like are you Can you climb to a certain point without... like You have to be a narcissist at some level. You have to be out for yourself at some level. People need to hear from me. and We've seen people do that for good. i don't get there There are people who can channel that ah personality type for good.
00:45:37
Speaker
um i'm I'm forgetting his name right now, but I see a lot of his videos and I always like to share them. Lindsey Graham? but that lindsey graham Yeah, exactly. The, um, the Texas representative who's like a progressive Christian.
00:45:51
Speaker
And I'm like everything, the way that he like fights in, uh, like fights other representatives, um, on like the most asinine bills ever.
00:46:03
Speaker
ah Like it's just phenomenal. I love this guy. I'm going to, I'll find it. saw the one that you're talking about. it the free, the furries act thing? There's the fur, he, it's a furries act one, but then there's the one cause Texas just passed the bill to like put the, that requires you to put the 10 commandments up on the wall in public school.
00:46:23
Speaker
And he's just like, yeah, And he's like, ah he's going through some of the 10 commandments. He goes, do you know, is it the fourth commandment? Whatever the one is about honoring the Sabbath or whatever. And he's like, just giving the lady shit um in such like a direct composed way. Cause he's like, ask what the, whatever commandment it was. And they're, they're meeting on Saturday and then they're voting again on this bill on Sunday. He goes, are you aware of what the Jewish Sabbath day is? She's like,
00:46:50
Speaker
Yeah, but it's ironic, isn't it? And he's like, so, I mean, really what I'm seeing is like, we're working on the Jewish Sabbath and we're voting again on this bill on the Christian Sabbath.
00:47:00
Speaker
And you don't see the irony in that, that we're telling people what they should do while not living to... and the the Ten Commandments in general. He's like, do you know any legislators who have ah taken the taking God's name in vain?
00:47:15
Speaker
Do you know any legislators who have been unfaithful to their spouses? Do you know? He's just like handing her ass to her. um And it's great. And I go, what like I don't have that in me to, to be, to climb the political ranks and be confrontational with people, but also have like a strong set of values that you live into is, uh, we need that.
00:47:36
Speaker
Um, but and you know, he's great at that, who I think is excellent at that exact thing is, uh, Ryan Grimm from counterpoints. Yeah. He is phenomenal at that.
00:47:48
Speaker
He's like non-combative. He has tough questions, but it's always in like a, such a reasonable manner. Like, They have a hard time stonewalling him because he's such a like well-intentioned good dude, you know?
00:48:01
Speaker
Yeah. It's James Tallarico. Is that? Yes. it That you're talking about? Yeah. Yeah. He seems like a pretty interesting guy. I'm convinced that if like, it seems like we're going to get AOC. Yeah.
00:48:13
Speaker
the running in this next election. She might go for a Senate seat or something like that. But like if she picks someone like James Tallarico as a running mate, too they'd they'd probably have it in the bag.
00:48:25
Speaker
Yeah, maybe so. We'll see what sort of state this place is in by that point. I know. We might not even have an election. That's going determine everything. Back to our friend here.
00:48:36
Speaker
Yeah, so do you want to do you want to give kind of a ah rundown on it? Or I've got some articles pulled up here if you want. i I don't have it in front of me. I would need to ah jump back to it.
00:48:48
Speaker
So I'll just give you kind of the rundown here. So a rally pastor is ah Raleigh pastor is facing decades behind bars after pleading guilty to receiving more than $400,000 of fraudulent government-funded COVID-19 loans.
00:49:02
Speaker
According to the U.S. s Department of Justice, 45-year-old Mitchell Summerfield was found guilty of conspiracy to commit bank fraud and wire fraud, in connection with the scheme to fraudulently obtain COVID-19 loan funds.
00:49:14
Speaker
According to court documents, Summerfield was the pastor of the Word of God Fellowship Church in Raleigh and owned various other businesses, including Winning Ways, KHS Investments, and Vision and Destiny.
00:49:25
Speaker
dude That's the real kicker right there. As soon as your're own as soon as you're like an owner in multiple quote-unquote Christian businesses, like I don't even know what these things do. ah but it's well okay so There's ah a thing worth putting a pin in. is like i so my My thought was, okay I'm going to look these companies up. or organizations or whatever and see what they actually are.
00:49:51
Speaker
this is This is garbage. there's There's like nothing to most of these. And like the media didn't really report on that very much other than like it says here, and at one of those companies, Winning Ways, which Summerfield claimed is a home for teen mothers, investigators said it never operated, but he still received a nearly $150,000 loan.
00:50:12
Speaker
Oh my God. So he just made fake businesses to receive these loans. It sure seems like it. Like, i don't know if these were, if all of these were completely fake or if they were just like, you know, a little iffy or whatever. But, you know, it's funny, like I was looking at the, at a word of God fellowship churches website.
00:50:34
Speaker
And ah ah let me just give you kind of the background on this guy from the church website. Pastor Mitch Summerfield serves as a pastor alongside his mother, Pastor Jonel Summerfield of Word of God Fellowship Church, founded by Bishop Frank Summerfield in 1988 in Raleigh, North Carolina.
00:50:50
Speaker
He is described as a gifted communicator, strategic thinker, innovator, and considered one of the generation next generation's leaders. ah Pastor Mitch has a Bachelor of Arts in Mass Communication from Shaw University and currently pursuing his Master in Divinity University.
00:51:04
Speaker
He's very active with the Alumni Association and the community at large. Pastor Mitch is also the chief operating officer for Word of God Fellowship Church Academy and Daycare. He is a member of the board of directors for Winning Ways Community Development Corporation, which is the one that we just said never operated.
00:51:21
Speaker
This is on the church's website. That's amazing. It's in his bio. and Word of God Christian Academy, which I did look up, and that is like a legitimate school. Looks like probably a pretty big one.
00:51:33
Speaker
um ah Pastor Mitch successfully merged—this is like at the heart of like why this is so nuts. Pastor Mitch successfully merged his business acumen and his ministry insight into closing real estate deals of over $1 million. Okay.
00:51:50
Speaker
Which is a wild thing to put on a church. web like that's That should be quite irrelevant towards ah his ah qualifications for being head pastor. um Yeah.
00:52:02
Speaker
eight And in using the using like using his business acumen and blah, blah, blah. It's like, yeah, you'd think that like the next the next thing stated would be something that actually blended the two.
00:52:14
Speaker
But it didn't like the use it. It just is just. Yeah, cool. He does business. um ah Dude. And there's nothing worse than people who try to like mix their business practices with their like it's it never. It's got it.
00:52:31
Speaker
It's like, it smells like the stink of prosperity gospel, like immediately. Yeah. And we may be talking to somebody who's involved in that type of industry very soon, I guess. Fingers crossed. But um yeah, it's ah when I was growing up, the church that I went to, eight one of the one of the bragging points that was often cited by parishioners, I don't know if it was on the church's bio or and like on the pastor bio, but it's The pastor of the church was like a retired CEO from some company in Canada.
00:53:07
Speaker
and And people all the time, they're like, yeah, he was you know he was such a great guy. like He was a retired CEO and he felt the call of the Lord. and for the Until the church really grew into something, he didn't even take a salad. and it's like And they talked to a lot about how he used like his experience in the business world to like grow a church. And i'm like...
00:53:26
Speaker
If you, don't know, there's something, it didn't, it was fine at the time. You thought, when I was a kid, I thought that was cool. I can't even understand why people think those principles translate. But the further I'm out of all of that shit, you're just, if you have to use like your business credentials and your experience to like grow something, it just, it feels like it's the opposite of like,
00:53:49
Speaker
but You're talking out of both sides of your mouth when you're saying that, but then also being like, our church grew because, you know, we just preach the word and God's blessing us. It's like, is God blessing you or are you manufacturing some sort of fucking like sphere of pull or some sort of like, i don't know. It's like ah you're.
00:54:09
Speaker
You're manufacturing something that makes people, like even just using your experience as like a selling point to be like, I want to go to the church with a guy who used to be good at business. It's just weird to me.
00:54:20
Speaker
I think people just want to be around people who are successful. like somebody Somebody that was successful in another segment or sector or whatever, like you're more inclined to believe that they could.
00:54:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. you You're more inclined to believe that they have good insights in other ways. Like, i don't fully, like, I'm not totally against the idea of, like, business leaders or something like that, you know, putting that aside and and doing something in ministry or whatever. But I think, like, you, if you're a person who...
00:54:52
Speaker
had like the drive and the the determination to like climb some corporate ladder or build some enormous company and stuff like you you really need like a check on that influence with what you do at the church.
00:55:07
Speaker
And like there is a I think where so many of these like big churches start to really like take a turn for the worse is when growth becomes the mark of success and everything revolves around like how do we get more people into the roster?
00:55:22
Speaker
And and that is i don't know like success to you're I mean, but I've never been to a church where they didn't cite their growth as as success.
00:55:33
Speaker
It's evangelism. I mean, it makes sense. ah But it it doesn't when you like the numbers don't check out. like the numbers like the way it The way it works is ah over 90% of church growth, the I'm making up of the number.
00:55:48
Speaker
um But ah there is a number, and I'm sure it's fluctuated over the years, in the majority of church growth. is ah is just people switching churches to like, oh, that's a fast growing church. I want to be part of that. Like the amount of evangelism they're doing is null.
00:56:05
Speaker
They're not- Conquest customers. Yeah, you're just pulling from, that's like when you have, yeah. So like there's a new church and it's growing and people hear that it's growing. They go, I want to be part of that.
00:56:16
Speaker
And then they can be like, yeah, I was i was part of this church when there's a hundred people, which is what I heard all the time as a kid. The church started in a community center basement and Then they were able to get the the funds to build their building. And everyone who was part of it from the start, everyone was like, yeah, I remember back when we were in the community center. like it's like It's a badge of honor for people to to say they were a part of it before it was cool. it's And we see that in, look, we see that in all aspects of everything. name
00:56:46
Speaker
Name someone who won't brag about liking a band before they were banned. Right. Like that's, that's normal because that's what people want. But I think using what people want to quote unquote, grow your church when you, from the outside looking in, it just feels like a it's just bragging about that band you liked before there. It's nothing.
00:57:08
Speaker
It's like the, the mark of your success should be the good works that you're doing. Yeah. Like that should be how you measure success. Not like how many people you've gotten into the pews. Right.
00:57:20
Speaker
and donating or whatever and they'll think theyll try to say things right uh they'll say like yeah this is what we've done yeah well when i was in a church in virginia they were like they they talked about like uh they were raising funds to build a new playground on the church grounds and they were like imagine this is going to be for the community people will come and they will use it and like That was like, they would use that as like a mark for their success of like, of like what they're doing for the community. And then it's like, there was never anybody who used that.
00:57:53
Speaker
yeah No one's going to just see a church playground be like, I think I can play on that. They'd be like, I don't know if I'm supposed to go there. It's like how people would view it. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. So like, but there's always those bragging points. So the church I grew up in, it was like, this is what we do. Yeah, cool. The youth group went to like an old folks home and just like sat and listened to World War II stories for 45 minutes. Like, it's not like, and then that's it. And then you're, it's a, and then you peace. And then you just talk about how much it impacted you on a Sunday morning. Like there's most churches.
00:58:22
Speaker
oh Most, the vast fucking majority are literally doing nothing. They're not, they don't have a food pantry. They're not helping the homeless.
00:58:32
Speaker
But what they will do is they'll they'll sign up once a week to do soup at a soup kitchen pour soup at a soup kitchen. Yeah, like it's cool because that's needed. And I'm glad soup kitchens can use those people to actually maintain their ability to feed the homeless.
00:58:49
Speaker
But the fucking soup kitchen is good. And they're just using people's desire to be able to brag about or feel good about donating their time, which they should.
00:59:00
Speaker
You should do that. um I know it sounds like I'm talking in circles, but the problem church is all good. the churches aren't doing the things. They're just like grafting onto it and taking credit and they're not furthering the quote unquote mission that they claim to be furthering.
00:59:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's true. I mean, at the end of the day, I think like it's if if people are being fed, then I guess it doesn't matter like what who gets credit for it to some extent.
00:59:28
Speaker
But it does like i think that the vast majority of what churches do is It's in group things. I mean, it's you're you're a member here and you have access to our benefits, whatever, however meager those might be.
00:59:43
Speaker
This this guy So having said all that about like his business background and stuff, I think do what makes you really scratch your head, because I don't know that this guy has been doing bad things his entire career. I mean, I i suspect that he has.
00:59:57
Speaker
I think he's probably a pretty run of the mill, like pastor that's growing a big church and that this that whatever.
Systemic Issues in Leadership
01:00:04
Speaker
Yeah, look, probably. i I don't need it think we need to pretend like people are victims because they go to a church and and give money to a guy who's, you know, buys Louis Vuitton bags and stuff like that.
01:00:14
Speaker
Like they obviously like what they're paying for. Let them have it. That's fine. You know, but. What really like makes you scratch your head about all this is like, he has this resume. He's done all these things. He's pitched himself, you know, not just as like a ministry guy, but also as like a business leader, like an entrepreneur.
01:00:33
Speaker
And yet the thing that he got in trouble for is it's so blatantly stupid that like you you have to question like his entire resume, you know, like i dude it Okay, so between July 2020 and July 2021, documents said Summerfield conspired with others to submit false and fraudulent applications for Paycheck Protection Program, PPP, loans, and Economic Injury Disaster Loans, EIDL, for his businesses.
01:01:03
Speaker
Documents show that Summerfield submitted multiple EIDL and or PPP applications on behalf of Winning Ways, KHS Investments, and Vision and Destiny. and made various false statements in the applications in order to get lending agencies to approve and send out the requested loan amounts.
01:01:21
Speaker
Investigators found that Summerfield also provided fabricated IRS tax form, including false income tax returns. As a result of the fraudulent applications, he received more than 400,000 in PPP and EIDL funds and used the proceeds for unauthorized and unlawful purposes, including paying for personal expenses.
01:01:40
Speaker
According to documents, Summerfield used the money for everything from flights to shopping, designer clothes, and family planning. Family planning. How in the world can you be... That's what that is.
01:01:54
Speaker
That's fucking hilarious. He's a spritz for his limp dong. He is, ah yeah, it could be like, yeah, it it could be the blue pill. It could be condom.
01:02:08
Speaker
He could be having having a ah good time with ah a lot of his parishioners. That's a good good possibility that that's happening. I don't know if he's a married man, but that doesn't stop pastors anymore. the fatigue obviously How can you be this kind of a guy?
01:02:25
Speaker
If family planning shows up as something that they're reporting on, like that's not like $100. That dude spent like $4,000 on condoms in Cialis.
01:02:36
Speaker
it's It's one of four things they cited. yeah maybe it's Maybe it's like in vitro treatments or something like that. you know I could see that being the case.
01:02:46
Speaker
It could be. You're generous. i appreciate your I appreciate you leveling me out a bit. How can you be this guy with this stuff in your background and like this reputation that you're trying to uphold, like this scam that you're selling people about who you are?
01:03:01
Speaker
How can you be that guy and think that you're going to get away with submitting fake income tax returns? it's You know who gets away with that? Nobody. Nobody gets away with that. Nobody that collects a paycheck, you know. if you do get away with it, you you make under $70,000 a year. Or you have an island in the Caribbean where people like to take vacations.
01:03:23
Speaker
That too. By the way, he did kill himself. No way. For sure now, because Cash Patel and Dan Bongino saw the documents.
01:03:35
Speaker
I thought, dude, at first I thought you meant this pastor killed himself. I was like, that happened fast. No, no. There was ah that was an an announcement this week good about the Epstein thing. oh my God.
01:03:46
Speaker
Cash Patel and Dan Bongino came out and were like, oh. Yeah, he he did commit suicide. It's like, okay, you two jerk offs can go back to whatever hole you were in six months ago.
01:03:58
Speaker
ah Cash Patel writing children's books about, you know, the grand wizard Donald Trump or whatever. Like, what an idiot. yeah Some basement writers trolling people constantly.
01:04:11
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know, man. And so I... I was trying to find some more information out about this guy and see, like, you know, if he has a history of this kind of thing, like what's his background and stuff. And it kind of led me down a rabbit hole.
01:04:23
Speaker
um If you look him up on YouTube, ah there's there's a there's a bunch of, you know, sermons and stuff that he's done. But then there's also like, you know, people commenting on the scandal and stuff.
01:04:35
Speaker
There is a there's a YouTube channel I found that I actually I've only watched the one video, but I really like the guy. It's called Pocket Watchers. And it's this dude who's like a financial planner, business guy. And he's just like reading these dudes, the riot act. But part of what he draws attention to in this is that about a year ago,
01:04:56
Speaker
uh, Summerfield allowed this guy, Jay Morrison to come speak at his church. And he gave a sermon over live stream to the entire congregation and stuff like that called God is my bank.
01:05:10
Speaker
Okay. And I'd never heard of Jay Morrison, but um this guy is a real piece of work. um He's somebody that's been like grifting off of, ah you know, he's he's been doing the same thing for a long time. Like he did it in the financial segment by making himself out to be like this really successful, like real estate investor and stuff like that.
01:05:33
Speaker
But then ah he he got entangled in this like, oh God, what was it called? What is it called? This is like a good lesson about lying on your resume, right?
01:05:45
Speaker
Like you can just, you can just say whatever you want. ah du It's literally the Seinfeld episode where George pretends to, he, instead of Christmas presents, he tells everybody he gave a donation to the human fund, which is like he made it up.
01:06:00
Speaker
Yeah. This Jay Morrison guy, he got he he started this thing called the Tulsa Real Estate Fund, which was it was supposed to be like, ah you know he was a guy who was like supposedly like this really successful real estate investor.
01:06:17
Speaker
And his whole pitch was like, I'm giving back to the black community and stuff like that by helping people get into real estate investment. And just because you don't have the funds to do it on your own,
01:06:28
Speaker
That doesn't matter because I'm going to pool the funds in this Tulsa real estate fund and we're going to buy real estate and trade on stuff on it together. And I mean, as you might expect, this is a total f fraud.
01:06:40
Speaker
And this guy's like all over the place on podcasts and stuff like that, like, you know, talking himself up and about how, you know, what a genius investor he's been and how successful and stuff. And he has no track record of like real estate success.
01:06:54
Speaker
I mean, this is all just built off of like his nonsense that he was pitching. And he managed to raise a ton of money from the from the black community. Like basically he I think at its peak, it was almost twelve million dollars in this fund.
01:07:09
Speaker
and Jesus Christ. Think about the real estate market over the past like 10 year. Right. It's like the most bullish market of all time. Everyone with a couple bucks to spend on a pulse made money off a real estate.
01:07:24
Speaker
over the past 10 years. yeah Even you and i which were we're morons, right? not lost 75%. lost 75% of the $12 million in funds that raised and came under And he was getting roasted left he lost seventy five percent of the twelve million dollars in funds that he raised
01:07:41
Speaker
The guy had no idea what he's doing. And in the midst of like his you know downward spiral and stuff like that, like he comes out of the ashes as a as a a man of God, you know a vessel that Jesus is going to use to help people find financial success.
01:07:58
Speaker
That is the move, dude. That and it's such a, it's a tale is old as Richie, the barber, right? Failed clown. He just, Oh, now I'm a, now I cast out demons. Uh, like these people are nuts.
01:08:15
Speaker
It's every, every massive failure can just go. Like, I mean, we just watched it with Russell brand. Uh, like these people who just, Oh my God. Like,
01:08:26
Speaker
it's like You just have to get Ben Shapiro to roll over and show his eight swollen teats, and you just have to latch onto one of them. Suck the yellow chunks out of it.
01:08:39
Speaker
I hate that. ah <unk>s He's a swollen old salad. It's like when you get that, um that what's ah what do you get and what are these like the smoothies that people get with those little balls in it?
01:08:55
Speaker
Oh, like a boba tea? Yeah, but it's like when your straw is too small to get the boba ball out and you have to like suck real hard until until it finally comes out and hits the back of your throat. It's like, imagine if those boba balls were like little chunks of phlegm.
01:09:10
Speaker
Oh.
01:09:13
Speaker
Got it. yeah But yeah, so this Jay Morrison guy, after completely like scamming his own community and losing $8 million dollars or whatever, like he decides to come for come out as like, ah you know I'm called to the ministry and I'm here to preach and to tell people about the Lord and this and that and the other. And like it's like the first place he preached was at...
01:09:39
Speaker
mitch summerfield's church nice and there was a guy that you buy into i love the i love the absolute like lack of vetting processes for churches bringing in guest speakers like that yeah dude and i don't know that's what i couldn't figure out too is like what is the connection between these two guys like is is jay morrison somehow involved in all of this fraudulent stuff i don't know that he is but for some reason devil's triangle yeah Yeah, it was like they were part of like poor, poor skull and bones or something.
01:10:14
Speaker
They hazed some noob a little too hard. And they're like, we might go down for sexual assault. You owe this dude or I will put us both in prison. That's what all great friendships are based on, you know? Yeah.
01:10:25
Speaker
All of George W. Bush's best friends like jerked off in a casket at one point. Epstein and Trump. Okay.
01:10:35
Speaker
Oh man. But so, yeah. So there's the guy that, so this, this pocket watchers guy does a great video talking about the two of them and the fact that like this, this pastor Mitch, uh,
01:10:50
Speaker
they made like aggressive efforts to contact him when if when they found out that this guy was going to be speaking at at his church they made like very aggressive attempts to get in touch with him and say hey you need to like look at who this guy is you should not let him speak at your church like you need to be aware of this guy's history he is a scammer to the 10th degree and like he would not even speak to these guys And ah there's video, I mean, you can watch the video from the sermon that he gave. And like I said, it was about a year ago that he, that it streamed, but um it is the most asinine, ridiculous, like feature film level backstory that this guy gives for himself.
01:11:31
Speaker
It starts out with, you know, ah when my mother was such and such, she, you know, she got pregnant and, you know, somebody forced her to have an abortion and,
01:11:42
Speaker
you know the The doctors were coming in and out in and out and stuff like that, and they were telling her that he's hanging on and stuff. And and my mother, she she heard a voice that said, Sweetheart, this boy is going to move nations.
01:11:56
Speaker
And so my first experience in life, my first time coming into this world was surviving attempted murder. Oh, my God. Dude, it sucks so bad. Bitch, you did nothing.
01:12:08
Speaker
You just showed up. Survived attempted murder. God. An abortion. No one's having, nobody's having nine month abortion. No. Despite what the GOP says.
01:12:19
Speaker
yeah Constantly. Constantly. i even to like show up in front of people and start that like to the ego that you have to have to use a story like that push your agenda is pretty incredible Like I can't imagine, I can't imagine my story starting before i was born. Like for a guy who's trying to like build his grift off of like his bullshit credentials to try to use like out of like out of every single kid that's been born, right?
Manipulation in Ministry
01:12:52
Speaker
Like that's what people will do. They'll use like these, these bullshit concepts, like proclamations, like the amount of proclamations that have been absolutely like, not obviously this one was nonsense too.
01:13:03
Speaker
He's just making shit up. Guaranteed that didn't happen. But like, to that's that's not an uncommon route to go for like the charismatic preacher.
01:13:13
Speaker
When I was growing up, I was a nobody. I was a nobody. I had two big buck teeth and everybody made fun of me. And it's like, okay, like that has nothing to do. That is... nothing deep There are kids who killed themselves because they got made fun of, too. dude Like, this is not... but This isn't the trial Olympics.
01:13:31
Speaker
This isn't what you think. It doesn't come off as interesting or cool. But what he obviously what he did is use the concept of abortion, right? And that's like the... yeah That's horrific.
01:13:42
Speaker
That's the move. Like if he was like, i would make crime if he was teased a lot in fourth grade and it was like, one day you'll be somebody great and and you'll be metaphorically stuffing everybody else in lockers. Like that just doesn't carry the same weight of like, oh, let's let's just use trigger words like abortion.
01:14:01
Speaker
You know, people want to tell you that you don't have to touch a hot stove to teach a kid that that they need to be careful where they put their hands. And my mother, I remember my mother told me time and time again, do not swim until 30 minutes after you've eaten. Don't do it.
01:14:17
Speaker
You shouldn't do it. Don't do it. But I was so anxious to get in that water. I was so hot and sweaty. I just wanted the cool relief for that pond.
01:14:28
Speaker
And so I ignored my mother's warning. I went into the water. And at first, everything was fine. And you know, church, you will find that sometimes you find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time under circumstances you know ain't right.
01:14:41
Speaker
And you will know within the first five minutes that, hey, everything seems fine. Maybe it's okay. Well, it's not okay. And about that time, I started to get a cramp deep in my stomach.
01:14:53
Speaker
And at first, I tried to ignore it, but it gnawed at me. And it gnawed at me. And soon enough, I was thrashing. And I was i was begging for breath. I thought this was the end. you I set myself sinking deeper and deeper into the water. And things were going dark.
01:15:08
Speaker
I could see spots. And I thought, this is the end. Five years old, and this is the end. My whole short life flashed behind my eyes. And then I heard a voice. I heard a voice that said, son, it's not your time.
01:15:21
Speaker
Get up out of this water. Dude, I'm hard. Go move mountains. i And my fat uncle pulled me out. yeah Dude, how was that? That's incredible. Off the dome. That's pretty good. I love that.
01:15:36
Speaker
Dude, I like the part where you got the quiver in your voice when you got low, you got quiet, and then you came back strong with that quiver. It felt practiced. i feel like even I feel like that's how your sales meeting go. And you might be more successful if you leaned into that Southern Baptist preacher a little bit harder.
01:15:53
Speaker
Oh, I think so. I think i think when you assign like dramatic, catastrophic importance to your like menial nonsense advice, like there's just a portion of the audience that's going to buy in.
01:16:06
Speaker
Yeah. Like if you seem convicted enough, they'll they'll buy it. I knew it was bullshit and i was about to i was buying in and I knew it was wrong. I knew you were lying and I was here for it.
01:16:16
Speaker
I was sucked in. I think maybe take a – you know take a play out of like the, like Nathan for you rehearsal book. And we start a church.
01:16:27
Speaker
All right. And we document the whole thing, but then we have our conversations about it behind closed doors. And then, and then we release it and everybody, that's when everybody who's part of it realizes they were, yeah, they'll hate us.
01:16:41
Speaker
It will hate us real hard. um and then but like the in the way you get people in it is like you know churches love um they love like statements of faith like sign this church contract kind of shit um yeah and you get them to sign the statement of faith so that way they can be members because they're not reading it they're not going to read the small print on the back that says we can use your face we don't have to blur shit out we can use your name we can tell ah we we can put your address out there what we like kind of Borat style, right? It's like Borat would kind of get people, uh, Sasha Baron Cohen would get people in, would just be like, sign this and you can, whatever. And people would sign it. Like, you don't have to be honest because it's their fault for not reading the fine print.
01:17:23
Speaker
And I think we have, a great hbo series uh if we could pull that together oh absolutely i love that idea yeah i it is fascinating to watch a con artist work yeah it's incredible it's worth i kind of want to go back and watch that full like god is my bank message because it's it's really interesting and i don't even know that this guy is like very effective at it i mean obviously he squeezed a lot of money out of people but like It's very interesting to see what strings somebody pulls when they're trying to like squeeze money out of a crowd.
01:17:59
Speaker
Because the parts that I was watching, you know that that Pocket Watchers guy, again, highly recommend if someone you know if you're interested in that sort of thing. but uh he was playing clips from this sermon and he really like goes off on the audience at one point about how like you know uh i don't remember what the prop the i think it's in proverbs but it was like it was their spank me daddy more spank me daddy movement moment yeah like and it was like uh that you need a little chastising here and there yeah it was like that section in proverbs or whatever where he's like you know uh uh
01:18:35
Speaker
prudent man or a wise man or a faithful servant or whatever leaves an inheritance for his children's children. o And so he made this whole point about like, you know, don't just, you know, you managing your money is not just responsibility.
01:18:51
Speaker
It's not for you. Like you have a duty to grow your financial like assets and Not for not even for your kids, but for God, because God says, this is how you show me you believe.
01:19:04
Speaker
This is how you show me you're a good and faithful servant as you are a good steward of what I've given you and you grow it and you make more out of it. And then goes on a rant about like checking accounts only and paying whatever interest and stuff and like.
01:19:17
Speaker
No way. Dude, he just like blasts the audience. Like, you know that there's just like people sitting there feeling guilty that like they're not in a better financial situation, which God, like, I mean, who is?
01:19:29
Speaker
yeah and like That's also not like the idea of like using that. That's because that that's not an uncommon plat. Like that's not an uncommon communication tool for Like, oh, be ah you need to be a good steward. Like, you can you can just arbitrarily apply that to anything, being a good steward of money.
01:19:52
Speaker
But they don't really get into the details, right? They're not getting into the real fine nitty gritty details of, like, you know, what that would mean according to Jesus. But they just are like... If you're a good steward, because they they phrase it in a way that's just like the more you have, the bigger your 10% is. And the bigger your 10% is, the more God can do with it because God needs more money to do more things. like and The irony is like you have to work really hard to grow your portfolio in order to give God what he needs.
01:20:23
Speaker
But they have no problem telling you that if you have no money and you give God a dollar, he can return it tenfold it's like why can't you know my fucking tithe then how about i give you one percent and god can fucking turn that into ten percent yeah and it's yeah dude it's wild it's just wild to see somebody do that sort of thing like the audacity yeah especially when you're person that's been so you've been so unsuccessful in every venture you've ever done like the only thing you've ever successfully done
01:20:57
Speaker
is sold people the false notion that you are successful. That's all you're good at. But then there's so many people like that. There's such a sadness to the idea that like when they've failed at selling everybody, failed at selling people things in every other realm that they have to go to religious people.
01:21:16
Speaker
Like the it's sad that they can be that easily like manipulated in that atmosphere. it It sucks. It's predatory and it's gross, but like,
01:21:26
Speaker
That is the bottom rung for these. They've tried everything else and they go, I'm going to go here because these people already walked into this space with this this cultural understanding that they need to give 10%. Yeah, and it's like it's also like the the notion of you know like your past failures are are not a black mark on your record. like They're a courageous part of your testimony that you're sharing.
01:21:51
Speaker
Absolutely. The ways that you destroyed your life are are just further like evidence that you have climbed to a peak that you've, you know, they are not capable of.
01:22:03
Speaker
And on top of that, like you're believing a guy who's turned his life around. You you know, you're you're having faith in this man and and giving him another chance. But like, there's so many factors to why it works so well in that community.
01:22:18
Speaker
hmm. i don't I don't know. I don't know that that is something you can fix. I think that's kind of just pre-built into the model. Yeah. Yeah, it is. but and But I guess, like, despite, like, the obvious frustrations I can have um with the... like And we we touch on this from time to time, but it's like, i'm my intent isn't to denigrate parishioners as a whole.
01:22:44
Speaker
ah It's like the institutional failure to protect them. That is a problem. And we see that again. everywhere else. We see that in government. We see that in corporations. ah you know Corporations do the whole, like you're a team lead.
01:22:58
Speaker
and they They try to use this family language. and It's like, we all know this is bullshit. and you're but You're trying to cultivate a sense of belonging and church does that better. um than a lot of other institutions ah for various reasons that would you know we don't have to get into, but we're aware of the social implications in the status and not status as like a hierarchy sense, but like the social capital you have in your church and the community that you feel and like the group think of like, well, I don't want to be the one to not buy into this. So if I'm smelling something fishy, like I don't want to be the one to like,
01:23:37
Speaker
pointed out and everyone's kind of just like waiting to point out who farted but nobody wants to accuse anybody else but like it's just it was jay morrison by the way it's sad so i do feel like i get i know it my frustration sounds pointed at the people that are victims but i do see a lot of these people as joining a thing for fine legitimate reasons ah and then being preyed upon because of the way that the institution is set up. And it is not designed to protect people. It is it is designed to take their money.
01:24:12
Speaker
And you may not even be, a but like, you could just be a regular-ass pastor, but we know what this we know it we know what that requires. they We know that they are effective communicators and that they know how to fluctuate their voice and they know how to you know build ah build towards something big and then like these these pastors are able to in some way manipulate people um and they They're regular communication tactics. I guess.
01:24:43
Speaker
Everybody's selling something, you know? Yeah, but I think that that think that's what pisses me off is like, I expect that from the dude that knocks on my door with a good solar pitch. Like, there's this idea that you should feel, be safe from being sold something in and that you're there for something different. So when you are being sold something, it's shitty.
01:25:02
Speaker
And it's not fair. And it's taking advantage of I think that's ultimately like, you know, aside from, you know, this whole like PPP loan situation and stuff, like in relation to Jay Morrison, like the failure of Mitch Summerfield is that he allowed this man that was so obviously a Conard that had already stolen money from like a huge number of people in his community. Like you allowed this man to get up and, and, and,
01:25:30
Speaker
hose your parishioners. Why would you do that? Because he had a percentage. He probably had a cut of the of the love offering. and Maybe so. I mean, I have to think that there's some sort of like business ties or something between him and this guy. and you know Maybe he's another dude that just got sold a big pitch and you know was unaware until it was too late. but i think like Which could be. He's clearly not as smart as he leave makes himself out to be.
01:25:55
Speaker
He probably got bamboozled by a bamboozler. Yeah, I think that's what is like such a head scratcher about like the PPP loan situation is like this was a he had to know that this was a tremendous risk.
01:26:08
Speaker
And like, I can't imagine that he took that risk just to like buy some flights and bags and maybe some condoms or whatever. Right. Like, I think we're going to find out that there was something else in his life that was a mess that this was supposed to fix.
01:26:25
Speaker
Like he overpaid for something. There's a reason that he risked so much to get that 400,000 in loans, you know, and maybe it's gambling debt or maybe it's some sort of, you know, business venture that was underwater.
01:26:39
Speaker
Maybe he'd been taking money from the church and like he needed to make up the difference or something like that. I don't know
Financial Fraud and Consequences
01:26:45
Speaker
what it is, but there's just nothing that makes sense about a guy with his background, like fraudulently putting together like IRS forms and stuff and thinking that that's going to suffice.
01:26:55
Speaker
Right. But people do get a weird false sense of confidence in certain situations where they're like, where they are elevated. um i mean, this guy had yet to experience legal repercussions or failure for some of the bullshit he had already done.
01:27:13
Speaker
And I think that does, you know, I wouldn't be shocked if there are people in his in his circle that were like, that get away with shit like that because they do it better. Like, it sounds like he's just a noob at being a ah a grifter off the government.
01:27:27
Speaker
um And i yeah, I think there's a, ah A level which these people go, yeah, I mean, I have these four businesses that are making me a lot of money. Yeah, he probably is involved in some spending issues that make him feel like he needs that $400,000 when he's probably making a good bit of money aside from that.
01:27:47
Speaker
But like there's a good chance he knows people that, because we know a lot of people... politicians businesses we know a lot of people got ppp loans that they don't have to pay back and then they're not in legal trouble for so i wouldn't be surprised if he was getting guidance or it was aware of peers uh that were getting away with it and he was like i could do that too probably and then he just did it dumb he did the dumb version of yeah
01:28:18
Speaker
Dude, I remember during all of that, like we we had a friend that was like they they really like tried to pitch us on this idea, like this genius idea that because April was like an LLC, they're like, well, you're technically self-employed. And and I don't even know what the rules are on that. But like so you can file for unemployment under this program and like get, ah you know, a monthly check or whatever.
01:28:44
Speaker
And they kept bringing it up and bringing it up. And I just kept thinking like that juice is not worth the squeeze. Like I'm not playing around with that. And then having to pay fines and stuff on top of like giving it up. Like it just seems...
01:28:57
Speaker
And maybe I'm just uneducated about that sort of thing. Maybe it's totally reasonable to do, but it just the whole logic around it and the way that they kept talking about it, it was like, dude, we found a great scam. You can do this and like hose the government for unemployment.
01:29:12
Speaker
Like, and no, thank you. And the risk of like a lot of people probably got away with with. Oh my God. Another, a rabbit hole I won't go down, but like just that whole idea of, we don't need to do it.
01:29:25
Speaker
We don't need to do it. It's just so like taking that mind flody restraint sorry taking that money from the government and then like blaming other people for, you know, getting disability checks or unemployment checks. Super frustrating.
01:29:37
Speaker
It doesn't matter. Very frustrating. um But like when it comes to like that situation where it's like, Like where like people have ah people have a hard enough time doing their taxes on their own, right?
01:29:49
Speaker
Like there's a complication to this and there's a fear of fucking it up. And, you know, but even on my taxes, I'm like, I think we can claim that. and i And I have this idea in my head at times and we just would go through with it. Like i Because at my level, right, at the end of the day, if you claim something wrong and you get audited, they go, yeah, you just owe us that money.
01:30:09
Speaker
Like, that was a fuck up. like that Right. When you're dealing with low numbers, nobody goes, that's criminal activity. They go, you're just an idiot that did use TurboTax and thought you could claim pencils because you're an educator.
01:30:21
Speaker
Yeah. They don't, it's not a big deal. um But like, we know that as things go up on that list, when it comes to the money you get back, that the stakes are higher and the higher there is like based on previous tax returns. If now there's this, this shift, right? They go, that's something to look at.
01:30:41
Speaker
And the the more it shifts. So if you like previously, you know, didn't, but weren't going nuts trying to like get everything you could like you're just you know doing it like a normal person and then now you're like oh well i need all this and you try to get these ppp look like that my assumption is that like audits are for people who do like have a a big shift from one year to the um when my in-laws bought solar and were doing it like they bought their solar panels they were getting the you they got that tax credit they were doing
01:31:13
Speaker
their Their tax return got held up for like seven or eight months because audits are slow. And eventually everything was fine. Funds were released, but it was a big shift from one year to the next.
01:31:25
Speaker
And I think that that's something that gets looked out for. But like for normal people like us, who we're not we're trying to get everything we can back, but nothing nefarious. We're just... I just don't want the government to have more of my money than they need. So I'm going to try to get as much of it back as I possibly can.
01:31:42
Speaker
And if I overshoot, then you go, all right, we crossed that bridge when get there. But for people who are actually like, but we know there's a threshold and we know that once you get into like that, that, well, didn't.
01:31:55
Speaker
might be fine or or it's probably not going to be a big deal because I don't make enough money. Then that's when I get real nervous. That's when most people just kind of shut the valve off because I'm not, nobody wants to engage. Most people don't want to engage in, in that sort of thing because it's like the repercussions are so fucking rough.
01:32:15
Speaker
Like for what you get, if I, if I swindle an extra $4,000 in my tax returns and I got audited and they realized I fucking faked stuff. Now I'm out like 10 grand in probation at best, but maybe a year in prison. Like I'm not, no, who you have to be out of your mind to try to fuck with the government. Like, yeah.
01:32:35
Speaker
Yeah. Wesley Snipes style. ah Yeah. exactly so i don't know yeah that's i don't know what's gonna happen with this guy but he's facing he's facing up to 30 years in prison which he's not gonna get you know you he won't write that penalties of up to a million dollars and then like he's gonna end up paying some sort some form of restitution you know that i'm sure they'll determine soon you know when he gets if he gets sentenced and stuff but He he had a fast indictment too, I feel like. I feel like they like hit him with it and then he was like already ready to go into court pretty quick.
01:33:10
Speaker
that The wheels of justice turn very slowly and until you financially fuck the government. Then they're like, we'll do this real fast. Yeah, they they're coming to see you. yeah yeah Yeah, so anyways, it's an interesting story. Maybe we'll keep an eye on it and see if ah anything turns up.
01:33:28
Speaker
I have like recently snooped around to see if I could find any more updates on the CryptoPastor. Oh, yeah? Oh, Mr. ah Eli, or I can't remember his last name. But yeah, it didn't look like there was any new news on that front, but that's always one that I'm interested to see because that guy is...
01:33:49
Speaker
Oh, he's scum, dude. Yeah. I forget a lot of that one, which is so funny because we talked about a pretty good length. I'm looking forward to ah you finally finding an update so we can rehash it.
01:34:01
Speaker
Yeah. Like a picture of his cellmate. Yeah. Bubba. Well... Yeah, I suppose. ah Thanks, everybody, for listening. um We've got we have some we have some interesting interviews ah in the works.
01:34:17
Speaker
and We just have to hope and pray that they they follow through on them.
Closing Remarks
01:34:21
Speaker
Yeah, that they don't listen to any of our episodes before they realize that we are not the right fit for what they're promoting.
01:34:28
Speaker
I just I want it so bad. I just want so badly. Don't worry. I'll go through. It's not alt-right white rappers who lift for Christ. It's not, ah you can't accuse us of enabling fascism.
01:34:41
Speaker
ah You could just, it's just run of the mill. ah What we talked about tonight, Christians, quote unquote, Christians, people using Christianity to, you know, rebrand their, their, the ways that they try to grow a financial platform of science.
01:34:59
Speaker
It's good. It's just classic. It's good. We're interested. Yeah. run of the mill grift. Yeah. Typical. I did happen to, uh, uh, uh, two for Christ popped up in my Instagram feed the other day and say, let's see what they're up to. It's about the same.
01:35:15
Speaker
think they've got another kid or two. Yeah. They were a back to back. It's like some Irish twin situation probably. Yeah. I don't know if Haley's going to make any music videos about like,
01:35:26
Speaker
you know, burn the immigrants or whatever, but I'm sure they're, I'm sure they got something in the works. That's distasteful. Something about deportation. Yeah. wow Well, yeah.
01:35:37
Speaker
Thanks everybody for listening and we see you next time.