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Ep 10 - Leashes, Sleep (or lack of), and Jam Jam
96 Plays4 months ago
From toddler leashes in airports to co-sleeping realities, we’re unpacking the parenting stuff people whisper about and actually living it out loud. We swap stories on safety vs. stigma (leashes, helmets, crowds), how we really slept those first months (chest-sleeping, co-sleeping, why couches are a no), and why “cry it out” short-circuited our nervous systems. Natalie introduces “Jam Jam,” the surprisingly effective monster for boundary-setting (thanks, Hunt, Gather, Parent), and we talk Montessori at home—tiny humans doing real jobs, everything in its place, and routines that build flexibility later. We also get into intuition (wild Reiki visions, pregnancy gut checks), the invisible postpartum cliff at 16–18 months, and giving yourself permission to choose the easy, connected thing when it serves everyone best. Zero shame, lots of laughs, maximum honesty.
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Transcript
Intro
00:00:51
Felicia Devine
Hello and welcome back to episode 10.
00:00:54
Natalie Richards
Hello.
00:00:55
Felicia Devine
Hi, Natalie.
00:00:55
Natalie Richards
be back.
00:00:57
Felicia Devine
Yes, we're back at it and Natalie's back at her office.
00:01:01
Natalie Richards
I know. I've just decided this is my my spot.
00:01:05
Felicia Devine
Your little podcasting zone.
00:01:06
Natalie Richards
Yep. I don't have to be – don't have to like go away on a weekend for a while.
00:01:07
Felicia Devine
love it.
00:01:11
Natalie Richards
So so i like I can be here and not have to take my stuff with me.
00:01:11
Felicia Devine
Oh, okay.
00:01:15
Natalie Richards
So.
00:01:16
Felicia Devine
I'm trying to think. It's September. we don't i don't think we have any away trips until... A while.
00:01:23
Natalie Richards
I have one in October now that I think about that, but that's okay.
00:01:25
Felicia Devine
Wait, when are we?
00:01:26
Natalie Richards
just yeah
00:01:26
Felicia Devine
No, we're November, right? We're getting together in November.
00:01:30
Natalie Richards
I can't wait until we get to do an in-person podcast. Maybe that's when I'll do your emotion code release when we're actually in person.
00:01:37
Felicia Devine
Oh, yeah. Okay, then you have... Wait, have you listened to an audible yet?
00:01:41
Natalie Richards
Yes, I did.
00:01:42
Felicia Devine
Oh, okay, good.
00:01:42
Natalie Richards
I did. i know. I listened to your advice.
00:01:43
Felicia Devine
Okay, good. So you're chugging away at your your little course.
00:01:45
Natalie Richards
Thank you so much.
00:01:48
Natalie Richards
So I actually got – I've gotten some good progress so far. So I like know how to do it now.
00:01:52
Felicia Devine
Oh, good.
00:01:54
Natalie Richards
I just have to like solidify my knowledge and practice.
00:01:57
Felicia Devine
Yeah, and practice. And you can practice all you want on me.
00:02:00
Natalie Richards
Exactly.
00:02:01
Felicia Devine
Yes.
00:02:03
Natalie Richards
ah So it says you can release like 10 trapped emotions per session. And then that's like kind of like most people's top.
00:02:10
Felicia Devine
What?
00:02:12
Natalie Richards
Most people's cap is like 10.
00:02:14
Felicia Devine
I feel like I could do one.
00:02:15
Natalie Richards
But there's like – that's like intense. But you don't have to actually remember the situation that goes with that emotion.
00:02:21
Felicia Devine
Right. Right.
00:02:22
Natalie Richards
So you don't have to like relive your – no.
00:02:23
Felicia Devine
Right. Relive 10 traumas.
00:02:25
Natalie Richards
No.
00:02:27
Felicia Devine
That's a lot of trauma.
00:02:27
Natalie Richards
which is, that's a lot though.
00:02:29
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:02:29
Natalie Richards
like I don't think when I'm doing it on myself, I don't think I want to do 10. I'm good with like five and I'll come back to it tomorrow.
00:02:36
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Now, what is the recovery time on that? Like, do you have to wait like a week between sessions?
00:02:39
Natalie Richards
says like you, you can notice like your body kind of processing things for like a day but then I think you can go right back.
00:02:46
Felicia Devine
Okay. Okay.
00:02:48
Natalie Richards
You can actually ask your body when it's going to be ready to do more.
00:02:52
Felicia Devine
My body says three years.
00:02:52
Natalie Richards
You can say, are you ready in two hours? are you ready in a day? Are you ready in a week? It's really, this they it's incredible, the depth.
00:02:58
Felicia Devine
Wow.
00:03:01
Felicia Devine
Are we like, are we like dabbling in like Ouija boards? It's like, are you ready?
00:03:04
Natalie Richards
Maybe. don't know. Like, it's really, it's really weird.
00:03:10
Felicia Devine
Have you ever done a Ouija board?
00:03:13
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:03:13
Felicia Devine
Have you? I've never.
00:03:15
Natalie Richards
We did it in my grandma's basement after her funeral.
00:03:19
Felicia Devine
oh Wait, I went to your grandma's house with your
00:03:23
Natalie Richards
You were there. ah wait. yeah you've were Yeah, you've been there playing the player piano in the creepy old basement.
00:03:26
Felicia Devine
But yes. Yes. Why were we there? She was already dead, wasn't she?
00:03:31
Natalie Richards
I think so. They were probably going through her stuff and we wanted to play the player piano one more time.
00:03:35
Felicia Devine
I think so. Yeah.
00:03:37
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:03:37
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:03:38
Natalie Richards
Yeah. So the night of my grandma's funeral, all my aunts and my mom, I mean, my mom is so Catholic. like The fact that she was sitting, actually she wasn't, you know what she was, oh my God, this is, she was on the player piano going through she was playing the Lord's Prayer.
00:03:50
Felicia Devine
Where was she?
00:03:57
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:03:59
Felicia Devine
That's the most Anita thing I've ever heard.
00:04:02
Natalie Richards
and She was playing the the Lord's Prayer on the player piano while everybody else was doing the Ouija board. I wasn't really doing it, but my aunts were.
00:04:09
Felicia Devine
Didn't you tell me something freaky happened with the piano during the Ouija board?
00:04:13
Natalie Richards
the somebody The lights went out.
00:04:15
Felicia Devine
Oh, no.
00:04:15
Natalie Richards
Like the lights in the basement all went out. I still to this day don't know if it was my aunt doing it to play a prank or if it was real.
00:04:22
Felicia Devine
Oh.
00:04:24
Natalie Richards
I have no idea.
00:04:24
Felicia Devine
Oh, spooky.
00:04:25
Natalie Richards
it was It was weird.
00:04:26
Felicia Devine
That's so spooky.
00:04:27
Natalie Richards
i don't I would never do that again.
00:04:27
Felicia Devine
I've never done...
00:04:29
Natalie Richards
It has like a weird – that stuff's weird. This emotion code is from God apparently.
00:04:33
Felicia Devine
Yes.
00:04:35
Natalie Richards
we'll just
00:04:36
Felicia Devine
Wait, you know, it's super, uh, creepy. I don't even know what the word would be for this. Have you ever had Reiki done?
00:04:45
Natalie Richards
I have never had it done on me.
00:04:47
Felicia Devine
Okay. I had it done one time on me by professional.
00:04:50
Natalie Richards
Is it like – yes. Yeah, tell me your experience.
00:04:53
Felicia Devine
Okay. So going into it, I was just like very open-minded because I didn't have anything I was trying to work on. So it wasn't like I had pain or I was like trying to move energy because I like Raynon syndrome and I have like cold hands.
00:05:08
Felicia Devine
Like it it was simply like a, I'm doing this.
00:05:09
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:05:12
Felicia Devine
I'm open-minded. Let's just see what happens. And I don't know if maybe that is where I went wrong.
00:05:17
Natalie Richards
I see.
00:05:17
Felicia Devine
I had no intention set because the intention that came through were dead people.
00:05:19
Natalie Richards
No.
00:05:23
Natalie Richards
no
00:05:24
Felicia Devine
I was being visited by Deb. It felt like I was on drugs. So I was seeing like, yeah, like, so your eyes.
00:05:29
Natalie Richards
You were seeing visions? What? People you knew?
00:05:34
Felicia Devine
Yeah. So my eyes were closed and it was as if I was in a psychedelic realm of like purple and kaleidoscopes. Like it was like happening to me.
00:05:43
Natalie Richards
yeah
00:05:45
Felicia Devine
And then like, My grandpa, as like a little boy, he's passed away, like came over and was like with me. And then a woman that was like, it's okay. I've got her. Like, is she safe? Like all these things.
00:06:02
Felicia Devine
And then I later realized it was my... mom's mom's best friend who like drove them or like picked them up from the hospital when my mom's dad passed away.
00:06:15
Felicia Devine
Like literally, Natalie, it was the craziest thing ever. I opened my eyes afterward and I go, and I was getting so nauseous.
00:06:18
Natalie Richards
What?
00:06:21
Felicia Devine
It was crazy. So then I opened my eyes and I'm like, oh wow, that was crazy. I saw so many dead people. And it was like a really like crazy trip. And she was like, oh, wow.
00:06:30
Natalie Richards
She's like,
00:06:32
Felicia Devine
She's like, that normally doesn't happen.
00:06:34
Natalie Richards
No, I don't think that ever happens with Ricky.
00:06:35
Felicia Devine
Typically people will like see colors, but like, no, I was being visited by dead people.
00:06:41
Natalie Richards
Dang. Oh, we've got some work to do.
00:06:44
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:06:45
Natalie Richards
I'm so excited.
00:06:45
Felicia Devine
So then let's just say I've never done Reiki again.
00:06:48
Natalie Richards
I don't blame you because you never want to have that experience ever again.
00:06:50
Felicia Devine
No, no.
00:06:52
Natalie Richards
oh my gosh.
00:06:52
Felicia Devine
No, but people, people have told me when I'm working on them, like as the chiropractor, like me working on them, that it feels like I've done Reiki on them.
00:06:53
Natalie Richards
Okay.
00:07:01
Felicia Devine
And I'm like, yeah, I could see that.
00:07:01
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:07:02
Felicia Devine
Like I do a lot of like energy kind of stuff.
00:07:02
Natalie Richards
Yeah. We like tap into that. Yeah.
00:07:05
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Or I'll like ask questions and they're like, wait, how did you know that?
00:07:07
Natalie Richards
There's how do you know that? Yeah. That happens all the time.
00:07:11
Felicia Devine
And I'm like, I don't know. I'm my system is listening.
00:07:14
Natalie Richards
Things will just like pop in my head and I'm like, or have you ever had when a patient comes in and you're like, you're pregnant, like you know, and then they tell you that they're pregnant?
00:07:15
Felicia Devine
Download. Yes. Yes. Yes.
00:07:24
Natalie Richards
Has that ever happened to you?
00:07:26
Felicia Devine
That hasn't happened to me. I've predicted people being pregnant, but not like on my table.
00:07:31
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:07:32
Felicia Devine
And then also I once had this vision, not vision. It was a dream. a patient of mine early on in practice was pregnant and i had a dream that she had her baby and she was going to have a home birth. Didn't know the, the like sex of the baby, anything like that.
00:07:48
Felicia Devine
I had a dream that the patient had this baby. I knew the name of the baby in my dream.
00:07:55
Natalie Richards
What?
00:07:55
Felicia Devine
And then literally that weekend she texted and was like, congratulations. Like we had baby X, Y, and Z. Like this is their name. And I literally knew.
00:08:03
Natalie Richards
oh
00:08:06
Natalie Richards
That's wild. Wild.
00:08:07
Felicia Devine
i i could never forget that.
00:08:09
Natalie Richards
wild
00:08:10
Felicia Devine
It was truly crazy. It was like tapped into me.
00:08:12
Natalie Richards
That's so crazy.
00:08:13
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:08:14
Natalie Richards
i have I've noticed that I can sometimes like feel... like if a patient doesn't know what they're having, like boy versus girl, can you sometimes feel the gender?
00:08:25
Felicia Devine
No, because I didn't feel my own.
00:08:27
Natalie Richards
shoot. That's right.
00:08:29
Felicia Devine
Well, I did, but I ignored it.
00:08:29
Natalie Richards
But i've like i've got a pretty good I've got a pretty good track record.
00:08:33
Felicia Devine
Oh, I've ignored So when I was pregnant with Sep, I was like, it's a girl, it's a girl, it's a girl. And then when we got the anatomy scan, i looked at his face and I go, that's giving boy.
00:08:44
Felicia Devine
And then I was like, no, it's a girl.
00:08:45
Natalie Richards
Oh my gosh.
00:08:46
Felicia Devine
Like I ignored my intuition when I saw him.
00:08:49
Natalie Richards
Mm-hmm. Isn't that funny?
00:08:51
Felicia Devine
Yeah. But then I birthed him. And before I saw him, I was said, it's a boy.
00:08:54
Natalie Richards
You knew. Yeah, you knew.
00:08:56
Felicia Devine
Yeah. So I knew i just like chose to ignore that.
00:08:57
Natalie Richards
So funny. Right.
00:09:00
Felicia Devine
But, you know, I've really.
00:09:01
Natalie Richards
I think there are – the human experience has so many ways to tap in. And if we like actually dive and listen, ah there's a lot of things that intuition can tell us.
00:09:06
Felicia Devine
Yes. Listen. Yes.
00:09:13
Felicia Devine
I have very good intuition. Like. ah very good intuition. Like I will literally be like, that person is giving me the creep. I'm going to like remove myself. And then like something bad happens.
00:09:24
Natalie Richards
Something bad happens.
00:09:24
Felicia Devine
And I'm like, I knew it.
00:09:25
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:09:26
Felicia Devine
Like same thing with cars.
00:09:26
Natalie Richards
Oof.
00:09:28
Felicia Devine
I can be like that car that's unsafe.
00:09:30
Natalie Richards
Really?
00:09:30
Felicia Devine
Like I can like predict, like I can look at a car and if it's like giving me some vibe, I'll be like, we need to like get away from this car. And then they'll like crash.
00:09:40
Natalie Richards
oh my gosh.
00:09:42
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:09:42
Natalie Richards
but's i mean, these things are very good to know.
00:09:44
Felicia Devine
Yeah. No, I am like very good intuition.
00:09:48
Natalie Richards
I love that. It's very cool.
00:09:49
Felicia Devine
Yeah. I can also look at someone and be like, we're not going friends.
00:09:50
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:09:54
Felicia Devine
Don't know why, but I don't think we're going to I don't think we're going to get along.
00:09:55
Natalie Richards
Immediate no.
00:09:58
Felicia Devine
And then I learn more about them and I'm like, yes.
00:10:00
Natalie Richards
That would be why. Okay.
00:10:01
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, we digress.
00:10:06
Natalie Richards
I love it.
00:10:06
Felicia Devine
Today's episode, today's episode is going to be Well, we got good feedback about the episode we did where we rated baby and mom items.
00:10:17
Natalie Richards
yes
00:10:18
Felicia Devine
And people have sent Natalie and i ah ah few things that they would like us to, I don't think necessarily rate, but they definitely wanted us to talk about on on the pod.
00:10:26
Natalie Richards
discuss. ah Yeah. ah Yeah. What are our opinions?
00:10:31
Felicia Devine
I just want what we have to say. um And I guess that's why you're listening.
00:10:34
Natalie Richards
Oh boy.
00:10:36
Felicia Devine
So we wrote down a few of the things that were sent to us. And we're just going kind of like
00:10:41
Natalie Richards
I'm going to start. I'm going to start with a funny one.
00:10:42
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Okay.
00:10:44
Natalie Richards
and Okay.
00:10:44
Felicia Devine
So let's hear the first one.
00:10:46
Natalie Richards
Okay. Toddler leashes. Okay.
00:10:52
Felicia Devine
I have a good story about a toddler leave.
00:10:54
Natalie Richards
I need to hear, I need to hear your story.
00:10:56
Felicia Devine
So this happened like two weeks ago. We were flying home from Arizona and we were in the airport and was very busy. And sure enough, the only child that was acting psycho
00:11:06
Natalie Richards
Uh huh.
00:11:12
Felicia Devine
was a child on a leash.
00:11:14
Natalie Richards
Mm.
00:11:15
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:11:15
Natalie Richards
I, and okay. Is that child acting psycho cause they are on a leash?
00:11:18
Felicia Devine
Yes. Yes.
00:11:19
Natalie Richards
Or are they just always psycho and the parent knows that that kid needs to be on a leash?
00:11:22
Felicia Devine
No. Wow. Let me, let me take the story further. Okay. So in this huge terminal, busy, busy international airport. Okay.
00:11:33
Felicia Devine
Huge terminal. Where do those people sit? wait, hold on. What flight are they on? Mine.
00:11:39
Natalie Richards
Of course.
00:11:40
Felicia Devine
Where do they sit? The row in front of me.
00:11:41
Natalie Richards
right
00:11:45
Felicia Devine
So, so Dan and I are sitting behind this family. It's a family of four. So it's mom, kid, kid. So mom is on the aisle, kid in the middle, leash kid in the middle.
00:11:54
Natalie Richards
Okay.
00:11:57
Natalie Richards
Dad's all alone living his best life in the other side of the plane.
00:11:59
Felicia Devine
Yes. Yeah. Dad's on the other side of the aisle, doesn't look over once during the whole situation. I mean, but when I say situation, I mean the whole five hour flight.
00:12:10
Natalie Richards
Oh, gosh.
00:12:11
Felicia Devine
This dad's popping M&M's, he's eating snacks, he's buying snacks off the tray, like, or off the cart.
00:12:16
Natalie Richards
Oh, having a drink.
00:12:18
Felicia Devine
He's watching all his videos. I'm like, what is happening? Literally, Natalie, when I say commotion, she would be screaming and hitting these children. Like the mom was hitting, screaming, slamming, seatbelting, whacking, like like absolute mayhem.
00:12:29
Natalie Richards
The mom.
00:12:35
Natalie Richards
Oh, my gosh.
00:12:38
Felicia Devine
The dad didn't look.
00:12:40
Felicia Devine
Didn't look over once.
00:12:40
Natalie Richards
And you wonder why the kids act this way.
00:12:43
Felicia Devine
Yeah, yeah. So the kids are acting out, they're screaming. They're like, it was absolute mayhem.
00:12:47
Natalie Richards
Oh my God.
00:12:49
Felicia Devine
And I'm like, I think it's a parenting problem.
00:12:51
Natalie Richards
yeah That's like your worst nightmare.
00:12:54
Felicia Devine
Literally, I was like, what is happening? It was, Dan and I were just sitting there like, Oh no. Like, do you say something? Like, what do you say?
00:13:01
Natalie Richards
was And Seppi was with you.
00:13:03
Felicia Devine
sub is sitting there with his snack tray, literally watching, like he's like eating his sweet potatoes,
00:13:06
Natalie Richards
Chilling.
00:13:09
Natalie Richards
Like this is the best show I could be watching.
00:13:12
Felicia Devine
watching it all unfold in front of us. And I was like, oh my goodness, the leash kid.
00:13:16
Natalie Richards
Oh my God.
00:13:18
Felicia Devine
So I feel bad for the leash kid because I really feel like I
00:13:24
Natalie Richards
He's been turned into a leash kid.
00:13:26
Felicia Devine
Yeah. And it like, I don't know. It just was so, it was literally so crazy.
00:13:31
Natalie Richards
Oh my gosh.
00:13:32
Felicia Devine
It was so crazy. But anyway, so leash kids. Now I see, i see two sides of it.
00:13:38
Natalie Richards
I know. Safety. Safety.
00:13:40
Felicia Devine
Safety. i was going say you're at Disneyland
00:13:41
Natalie Richards
I get. If you really know that your kid is a runner and there are 10 years.
00:13:46
Felicia Devine
and you're, and then you're slow or you're disabled because you're pregnant or you have a broken foot.
00:13:52
Natalie Richards
Sure.
00:13:54
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:13:55
Natalie Richards
I can see it could be helpful potentially.
00:13:55
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:14:00
Felicia Devine
Was Gene a runner?
00:14:02
Natalie Richards
Never. However, okay, I have a i have a story.
00:14:02
Felicia Devine
Really?
00:14:06
Felicia Devine
Could he have been leashed?
00:14:09
Natalie Richards
He was never a runner. like he But that's because i taught him every time he gets out of the car.
00:14:11
Felicia Devine
OK.
00:14:15
Felicia Devine
Mm-hmm.
00:14:15
Natalie Richards
you sit here, you stand by the car, you do not go out into the parking lot until you have my hand.
00:14:18
Felicia Devine
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:14:21
Natalie Richards
And there's just like certain things from when he was like a really, really little that he just doesn't do.
00:14:21
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:14:25
Felicia Devine
Mm-hmm.
00:14:26
Natalie Richards
Like he he learned to do not go off into the parking lot off the sidewalk.
00:14:30
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:14:31
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:14:31
Natalie Richards
Now, of course, there's been times that he's done it, but like, is yes, exactly.
00:14:33
Felicia Devine
Right. But that's where you like make the correction.
00:14:37
Natalie Richards
Okay.
00:14:37
Felicia Devine
hmm.
00:14:38
Natalie Richards
So recently,
00:14:40
Felicia Devine
Mm
00:14:40
Natalie Richards
There have been times that he is really comfortable in a place and he's maybe not with me, but he's with my mom
00:14:50
Felicia Devine
hmm.
00:14:51
Natalie Richards
and he has run away and I will tell you this story.
00:14:51
Felicia Devine
Anita.
00:14:55
Natalie Richards
So, e i mean, enough, enough.
00:14:57
Felicia Devine
He ran away.
00:15:01
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:15:02
Felicia Devine
far enough
00:15:03
Natalie Richards
Far enough. Her version of the story is that they went to Anderson in Japanese Gardens, which is like a it's a beautiful, like enclosed garden. Like he can't really get out.
00:15:14
Felicia Devine
like a botanical situation yeah mm-hmm
00:15:15
Natalie Richards
It's a botanical garden. Yeah. Yeah. so they have But they have a pond and they have you know all kinds of stuff. But he's there because they do a little kids activity thing on Thursday mornings. So my mom would bring him there. And they went every Thursday for the whole summer and he got really used to it.
00:15:31
Natalie Richards
And he's used to like going to his places. So he's used to going to the koi pond and feeding the koi and going over here and playing with the rocks and going over.
00:15:36
Felicia Devine
a
00:15:39
Natalie Richards
you know He has his like things that he does. So he got bored with whatever presentation was going on and he just went somewhere and she lost him for like five minutes.
00:15:50
Natalie Richards
Like she had no idea where he was.
00:15:52
Felicia Devine
Oh, no.
00:15:53
Natalie Richards
And he just like wandered away. So he started to wander a little bit and I'm like, okay, we got to nip this in the bud. So she she's like, Jean, you cannot – you know, she's like yelling at him like, you cannot run away from me.
00:16:01
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:16:05
Felicia Devine
Right.
00:16:06
Natalie Richards
And he's he laughs.
00:16:08
Felicia Devine
Right.
00:16:08
Natalie Richards
Like he thinks it's the most funny thing when she yells at him.
00:16:10
Felicia Devine
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:16:11
Natalie Richards
So it's like, okay, obviously that's not working. So let's... but So we were then at Anderson Gardens again because they do a nighttime music thing and I was picking him up there and he did it again.
00:16:16
Felicia Devine
That approach.
00:16:23
Felicia Devine
Mm-hmm.
00:16:26
Natalie Richards
And this time they're at the music thing, there's like hundreds of people. So he's like beelining himself away from us to go do what he's used to doing, but through like hundreds of people.
00:16:38
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:16:40
Felicia Devine
Oh no.
00:16:41
Natalie Richards
and I get up to him and I go, so, okay, I'll back up and for just a second. I read this book called Hunt, Gather, Parent. Have you ever heard of that book?
00:16:50
Felicia Devine
Oh, cute. Wait, I have heard of it.
00:16:52
Natalie Richards
you should You should read it or listen to it on Audible.
00:16:54
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:16:54
Natalie Richards
it's It's a really good book.
00:16:57
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:16:58
Natalie Richards
It's more so just like how do other cultures parent their kids
00:17:03
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:17:03
Natalie Richards
And how do they not turn into like brats who don't listen to you?
00:17:06
Felicia Devine
Right, right.
00:17:06
Natalie Richards
So for whatever reason, the one thing that stuck out to me about this book is is that you can threaten your kid with monsters.
00:17:16
Felicia Devine
Really?
00:17:20
Felicia Devine
They're like, it is allowed.
00:17:21
Natalie Richards
Not like scary monsters, but more so like Santa watching over you monster.
00:17:23
Felicia Devine
Oh.
00:17:25
Natalie Richards
like Like they're there's a being watching over you who's watching to make sure you're doing things that aren't naughty.
00:17:28
Felicia Devine
santa's a monster Santa is a monster, to be honest.
00:17:36
Natalie Richards
and
00:17:39
Felicia Devine
Where is this going?
00:17:39
Natalie Richards
since Gene was like 18 months old, like it has worked and he doesn't get scared of it He just like falls in line. Like he
00:17:47
Felicia Devine
He's like the bigger knowing.
00:17:48
Natalie Richards
like I'm like, okay, I'll listen to you now. Or like like when he was alligator rolling for his diaper changes, when he went through that stage, I go, Jam Jam's go jam jams watching you.
00:17:54
Felicia Devine
Yes. Yes.
00:17:58
Natalie Richards
And he still, he'll be like, I don't want to wear these pants. I go, well, Jam Jam says you have to. and
00:18:03
Felicia Devine
Who's Jam Jam?
00:18:04
Natalie Richards
That's his monster.
00:18:05
Felicia Devine
Did you name it?
00:18:08
Felicia Devine
That's his monster. He has a monster. This is Monsters, Inc.
00:18:12
Natalie Richards
Yes. so
00:18:14
Felicia Devine
Okay, so I need to get a monster.
00:18:15
Natalie Richards
So he doesn't really like – I didn't portray it in like a very scary way.
00:18:20
Felicia Devine
No.
00:18:20
Natalie Richards
So he's not like super scared of this monster, but it's enough that it makes him listen to somebody other than me.
00:18:22
Felicia Devine
No. It's an authority figure. Yeah.
00:18:27
Natalie Richards
So I get up to him after he ran away.
00:18:27
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:18:31
Natalie Richards
And I said, Jaden, if you run away from your family, a mean, scary monster is going to come get you. And he goes, no, a mean, scary monster is not going to come get me. I'll walk with you, mama.
00:18:45
Felicia Devine
um Oh, I walk with you.
00:18:47
Natalie Richards
And he goes, okay, okay. And then every time he starts to wander away, I say, you know what happens when you wander away from your family? And he goes, yep.
00:18:54
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:18:55
Natalie Richards
And he comes right back over.
00:18:57
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Cause you know what mean scary monsters there are Predators.
00:19:00
Natalie Richards
Right. And I said, you know, somebody is either going to come take you or a mean, scary monster is going to go to go to take you away.
00:19:04
Felicia Devine
Yes.
00:19:07
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:19:07
Natalie Richards
And he's like, okay, I get it. I'm not doing this anymore.
00:19:10
Felicia Devine
No, that's so scary. I'm scared of Jam Jam.
00:19:14
Natalie Richards
know.
00:19:16
Felicia Devine
Wait, how did you come up with a name Jam Jam?
00:19:18
Natalie Richards
It was from the book because they had – their monster was like the Jimmy Jammer monster or something for like kids who don't want to put their jammies on at night.
00:19:20
Felicia Devine
Oh.
00:19:24
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:19:27
Felicia Devine
Oh.
00:19:27
Natalie Richards
Yeah. so the Jimmy jammer or something. And I just like under the, under the pressure of trying to create a monster, I was like, okay, jam, jam, whatever.
00:19:31
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:19:37
Felicia Devine
So much pressure.
00:19:38
Natalie Richards
So much pressure in the moment I needed, I needed a monster.
00:19:42
Felicia Devine
so. so
00:19:42
Natalie Richards
So sometimes like I'll look when he's like being, being awful. I'll like, I'll like look out the window behind him and be like, Oh, Oh no.
00:19:53
Natalie Richards
And he's like, Oh no. And I don't even have to have to say it anymore.
00:19:56
Felicia Devine
oh He knows Jam Jam is watching. Oh my gosh, Natalie.
00:20:00
Natalie Richards
I don't know if I'm creating like a really bad thing for him or not, but it's, but it's not, he doesn't seem scared.
00:20:03
Felicia Devine
He's trauma. Trauma with a capital T.
00:20:09
Natalie Richards
Like he doesn't have nightmares about it, you know?
00:20:10
Felicia Devine
No, it's just, it's an authority figure.
00:20:13
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:20:13
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:20:13
Natalie Richards
It's like anybody else, like it it's as if I say, your dad's not going to like that, you know?
00:20:18
Felicia Devine
Right. Right.
00:20:18
Natalie Richards
It's like the same thing, I think.
00:20:19
Felicia Devine
Yeah. No, it is. But like at the end of the day, Jam Jam is bad cop.
00:20:24
Natalie Richards
Jam Jam is definitely the bad cop when I don't want to be the bad cop or when Kyle can't, yeah.
00:20:26
Felicia Devine
That way kyle Kyle and Natalie can be a good cop, jam jam bad cop.
00:20:30
Natalie Richards
Yes. Yes.
00:20:33
Felicia Devine
That's crazy. so
00:20:34
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:20:36
Felicia Devine
Let's see. i was going to say something about Jam Jam, but now I'm not remembering what I was going to say. Oh, I was.
00:20:42
Natalie Richards
you
00:20:43
Felicia Devine
So along the lines of Jam Jam, when I was a kid, I used to, did I already say this on the podcast?
00:20:49
Natalie Richards
I don't know.
00:20:50
Felicia Devine
I used to literally think that God knew. Well, of course God does, but I used to know that God knew I didn't brush my teeth. before I got in bed and I'd be like laying bed. I'm like, God knows, God knows I didn't brush my teeth.
00:21:05
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:21:05
Felicia Devine
I have to get up and I would brush my teeth. Like it literally was like, God knows.
00:21:08
Natalie Richards
Wow. It was enough. Yeah.
00:21:11
Felicia Devine
And I think that was my biggest sin.
00:21:12
Natalie Richards
He knows everything that you do or don't do.
00:21:15
Felicia Devine
Like I couldn't sleep because I didn't brush my teeth.
00:21:17
Natalie Richards
oh Oh, isn't that so funny?
00:21:19
Felicia Devine
And I was like, God knows. Yeah. And like, if that was my biggest sin that I'm doing pretty, pretty okay.
00:21:24
Natalie Richards
Yeah. See, that was like part of the – a small part of the book, but it was like you can – I mean, you can like pretend things with your kid.
00:21:28
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:21:32
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:21:33
Natalie Richards
Like it's okay.
00:21:36
Felicia Devine
Do you...
00:21:36
Natalie Richards
And if it helps them to do things – so like I'll tell Gene that bugs are going to grow on his teeth if he doesn't doesn't brush his teeth and goes, okay, I have to brush my teeth now, mom.
00:21:40
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:43
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:21:44
Felicia Devine
Well, and like, that's not even a fib. Like, the sugar bugs take over and they make cavities.
00:21:45
Natalie Richards
No. Exactly. Or like if you eat on if you eat on the couch and you spill and whatever, ants are going to come get it.
00:21:49
Felicia Devine
Mm-hmm.
00:21:53
Natalie Richards
Like if there's nothing wrong with saying that stuff.
00:21:54
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:21:55
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:21:55
Natalie Richards
It's like real.
00:21:56
Natalie Richards
It's just just enough to like put a little little bit of fear in their eyes.
00:21:57
Felicia Devine
Right.
00:21:59
Felicia Devine
Spice it up. Yeah. A little spice. Do you guys, you guys like do Santa in your house?
00:22:07
Natalie Richards
Yeah, we haven't really gotten to the point that like he knows what that means, but we did
00:22:11
Felicia Devine
Gets it. I mean, maybe he will.
00:22:14
Natalie Richards
Essentially, we did last year.
00:22:15
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:22:16
Natalie Richards
and
00:22:16
Felicia Devine
I'm like, I'm all for like Santa, but I just want him to sit on Santa's lap.
00:22:18
Natalie Richards
yeah, it's a weird – it's kind of a weird concept.
00:22:23
Felicia Devine
I don't know. I'm just like, icked out by it. I'm like, I don't know.
00:22:25
Natalie Richards
I know. You don't ever –
00:22:27
Felicia Devine
It's like a e stranger. Yeah.
00:22:29
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:22:29
Felicia Devine
And B, all kids cry and scream. Well, most kids. So it's like intuitively kids are way smarter than we are. they They vibe check people better than we do.
00:22:35
Natalie Richards
It's true. e It's true.
00:22:38
Felicia Devine
And if they're scared of Santa, there's probably a good reason.
00:22:41
Natalie Richards
And you don't ever, as the parent, you never have to take him to go see Santa.
00:22:45
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:45
Natalie Richards
It doesn't matter.
00:22:45
Felicia Devine
I'm like, we can talk about Santa, but you you won't be putting your little booty on Santa's lap.
00:22:47
Natalie Richards
You can talk about him. Yeah.
00:22:50
Natalie Richards
I think that is A-okay.
00:22:52
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Anyway.
00:22:52
Natalie Richards
Gene is so funny. Last year, he just like looks up at him. He goes, hey. And then Carson, they put Carson over there and Carson's screaming, like wriggling, trying to get away.
00:23:00
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:23:04
Natalie Richards
And Jean's like looking over at Carson, like, what's wrong with you?
00:23:05
Felicia Devine
Oh my gosh.
00:23:08
Felicia Devine
June's like, this boy's about to bring me some presents.
00:23:10
Natalie Richards
Do you know who this is?
00:23:14
Felicia Devine
I love it. Okay. So back to leashes.
00:23:19
Natalie Richards
Okay.
00:23:19
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:23:19
Natalie Richards
Running away, leashes. I get it for safety.
00:23:21
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:23:22
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:23:22
Natalie Richards
Fine.
00:23:22
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:23:22
Felicia Devine
Safety. However, I don't know. I'm not at that age or that stage yet.
00:23:28
Natalie Richards
I know.
00:23:28
Felicia Devine
Like I see.
00:23:29
Natalie Richards
You don't know what you're going to do with parenting until you are presented with that.
00:23:33
Felicia Devine
Right, right now.
00:23:34
Natalie Richards
Like until your kid runs away from you in a crowded place.
00:23:37
Felicia Devine
It's interesting. I am I'm intrigued by the fact that not more kids are on leashes. It's almost like it's like an anomaly. Like you see someone and you're like ah ah taken aback like that kid's on a leash.
00:23:45
Natalie Richards
I know.
00:23:47
Natalie Richards
i know.
00:23:48
Felicia Devine
Was it more common a while ago?
00:23:50
Natalie Richards
i think it was. i think like 10 years ago.
00:23:52
Felicia Devine
Why did it lose commonality?
00:23:53
Natalie Richards
Because people look at you and and go, what are you doing?
00:23:58
Felicia Devine
Yeah, but then how are more kids not running away or are they?
00:23:59
Natalie Richards
I don't know.
00:24:02
Natalie Richards
I think maybe they are or people don't do things with their kids anymore that would require.
00:24:02
Felicia Devine
I don't know.
00:24:06
Felicia Devine
I don't know.
00:24:09
Felicia Devine
Yeah, that would require them running.
00:24:10
Natalie Richards
I don't know.
00:24:11
Felicia Devine
I don't even know.
00:24:12
Natalie Richards
Some people just don't go and do anything with their kids.
00:24:14
Felicia Devine
Yeah, yeah.
00:24:17
Natalie Richards
Or you just have to teach them.
00:24:17
Felicia Devine
We went to the playground. Yeah, we went to the playground for the first time ever last week and it was so cutesy, so fun.
00:24:25
Natalie Richards
so cute. It's so fun.
00:24:27
Felicia Devine
I'm like loving this age, but yeah, I know.
00:24:28
Natalie Richards
When he gets more capable at a playground too, it's just like, oh, you've moved on You've moved on to the big slide.
00:24:35
Felicia Devine
Oh, the big, yeah.
00:24:35
Natalie Richards
like it's so cute.
00:24:37
Felicia Devine
We, we took his bike. So he was like riding his bike. And then, I was like, well, I think like we could, let's go on the playground. Cause like, we're, we're old enough, Sep, like, let's do it.
00:24:47
Felicia Devine
But I kept his helmet on.
00:24:47
Natalie Richards
Yes. It's probably a good idea.
00:24:50
Felicia Devine
It was so cute.
00:24:51
Natalie Richards
It's
00:24:51
Felicia Devine
He also like loves his helmet. So like let's be real. He would have worn it anyway.
00:24:54
Natalie Richards
so cute.
00:24:55
Felicia Devine
But it was so funny because I was like, the last thing I need is this kid just like wrecking himself on like a beam or like falling off a step that he's never been on.
00:25:02
Natalie Richards
Seriously. Yep.
00:25:05
Felicia Devine
So he wore his helmet. It was so sweet.
00:25:09
Natalie Richards
That's so cute.
00:25:09
Felicia Devine
Precious. Yeah.
00:25:10
Natalie Richards
and See, then it's like, okay, your kid's wearing a helmet on the playground.
00:25:11
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:25:14
Natalie Richards
Is that different than a leash?
00:25:14
Felicia Devine
Right.
00:25:15
Natalie Richards
I don't know
00:25:17
Felicia Devine
I make my kid wear a helmet everywhere.
00:25:18
Natalie Richards
When we're talking about safety.
00:25:22
Natalie Richards
So who are we to say?
00:25:23
Felicia Devine
What are we to say? At the end of the day, if you need to leash your kid, do your own thing.
00:25:26
Natalie Richards
what you want. Do whatever the heck you want.
00:25:30
Felicia Devine
But honestly, that's the point of what we're trying to always say on this podcast too. It's like, our opinions don't matter. If you don't agree, it doesn't matter.
00:25:36
Natalie Richards
They really don't.
00:25:38
Felicia Devine
What I say doesn't really matter. If your family thinks a different way, ride it out. My thing is, this is my my mom taught me this when we were learning how to drive.
00:25:44
Natalie Richards
Go for it.
00:25:49
Felicia Devine
She said, don't hesitate, commit.
00:25:51
Natalie Richards
Commit.
00:25:51
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:25:52
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:25:52
Felicia Devine
Like if you hesitate, you're good as dead.
00:25:52
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:25:55
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:25:56
Natalie Richards
Exactly.
00:25:56
Felicia Devine
Parenting, commit.
00:25:57
Natalie Richards
Respond.
00:25:58
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:25:58
Natalie Richards
Make a decision.
00:25:59
Felicia Devine
If you're going use a leash, use it.
00:26:00
Natalie Richards
Go with it. Yep.
00:26:02
Felicia Devine
If you're going to not use a leash, commit. Okay. That's my bit. That's my bit on it.
00:26:07
Natalie Richards
I love it.
00:26:08
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:26:09
Natalie Richards
Done.
00:26:09
Felicia Devine
Okay. All right. Next. Let's see what's what's on this list, Natalie. Okay. Let's talk about co-sleeping.
00:26:19
Natalie Richards
Okay.
00:26:20
Felicia Devine
Somebody had sent in co-sleeping.
00:26:20
Natalie Richards
This is,
00:26:24
Natalie Richards
this is deep.
00:26:24
Felicia Devine
So I'm assuming they just want to hear you know the the ins and outs.
00:26:27
Natalie Richards
It could be deep. Let's let's like – Okay.
00:26:28
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:26:30
Natalie Richards
oh um um I'll just tell first i co-slept from the age of one day old to six months and then had a brief period of time that I couldn't be touched anymore and needed to have him somewhere else.
00:26:46
Felicia Devine
Mm-hmm.
00:26:49
Natalie Richards
And then at the age of 18 months, I think – I brought him back into bed with us because it was just easier that way.
00:26:56
Felicia Devine
yeah
00:26:56
Natalie Richards
My general feeling about it is that it was just easier, so I did it.
00:27:02
Felicia Devine
yeah
00:27:02
Natalie Richards
Like, that's truly the main the main reason. I guess there are many ways to do it improperly,
00:27:12
Felicia Devine
Oh my gosh.
00:27:13
Natalie Richards
but there are so many ways to do it totally fine.
00:27:14
Felicia Devine
There.
00:27:18
Natalie Richards
And it is not the safety concern that we are that we are meant to believe or brought to believe.
00:27:19
Felicia Devine
Yes.
00:27:22
Felicia Devine
No.
00:27:24
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:27:27
Natalie Richards
Gosh, I don't even know. Do you have any like quick tidbits before I get into details?
00:27:30
Felicia Devine
Yes.
00:27:31
Natalie Richards
so Yeah.
00:27:31
Felicia Devine
Yeah. So I always tell people to study safe co-sleeping habits in advance. Even if you think you're not going to co-sleep, even if you are like, my baby sleeps in a crib every single night, I don't care.
00:27:38
Natalie Richards
Yeah. Yep.
00:27:45
Felicia Devine
If you have one night where you pick that baby up and you accidentally fall asleep with them and you don't know safety of co-sleeping,
00:27:50
Natalie Richards
yep
00:27:54
Natalie Richards
Right.
00:27:54
Felicia Devine
That's so scary.
00:27:55
Natalie Richards
Or God forbid you go and lay in a recliner with them because you are so tired and exhausted that because you refuse to lay down in bed with them.
00:27:58
Felicia Devine
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:28:04
Felicia Devine
and That's even scarier.
00:28:04
Natalie Richards
So you decide, oh, I'll just, that's way worse to go do it on a couch or on a recliner where you're like not really trying to fall asleep.
00:28:12
Felicia Devine
So much worse. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. so there's an account I love on Instagram.
00:28:12
Natalie Richards
And you do that's way way, way, way, way more unsafe.
00:28:18
Natalie Richards
Mm-hmm.
00:28:20
Felicia Devine
It's called happy co-sleeper and it's a co-sleeping like safety account. So she just like preaches on how to do it safely.
00:28:27
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:28:29
Felicia Devine
Even if you're not planning to co-sleep again, it doesn't matter if you want to, it's when you fall asleep with your baby on your chest, you need to make sure that you're in a safe space for that baby.
00:28:32
Natalie Richards
Just, yeah.
00:28:38
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:28:39
Felicia Devine
Right.
00:28:39
Natalie Richards
Or how about we understand the risks of both and make a decision when once you really understand both sides.
00:28:42
Felicia Devine
Right. right Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:46
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Yeah. I'll say I slept with SEP. I co-slept with SEP or there's a little variation. So there's chest sleeping and then there's co-sleeping.
00:28:55
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:28:57
Felicia Devine
So I chest slept with SEPI from day two to three weeks. So for three weeks, he slept on my chest. And then Yeah,
00:29:04
Natalie Richards
I really think that's kind of the only way things happen in those first couple.
00:29:08
Felicia Devine
yeah but like people aren't people aren't admitting that. No, I'll tell you what.
00:29:12
Natalie Richards
it's like, okay, you can lay your baby in a bassinet for an hour maybe, but they're not going to want to be there.
00:29:16
Felicia Devine
Yes. Yeah. No.
00:29:19
Natalie Richards
So you either get up 10 times a night or you get like maybe like a three or four hour stretch with them on your chest.
00:29:19
Felicia Devine
No. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:29:26
Felicia Devine
Right. Yeah.
00:29:27
Natalie Richards
like You choose.
00:29:28
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:29:28
Natalie Richards
Okay. Yes.
00:29:29
Felicia Devine
Yeah. So Seth slept in his bassinet, like bedside cot, whatever you want to call it, for like three hours the first night because I got home at 5 a.m. m And then that was like the worst three hours of my life because I was separated.
00:29:42
Natalie Richards
And yes, I know it doesn't feel right at all.
00:29:43
Felicia Devine
i literally was like, how do people do this? So then, no, no. So we chest slept.
00:29:49
Natalie Richards
And you're awake. You're watching them. Like, it's just, I don't know.
00:29:53
Felicia Devine
i I just couldn't be separated.
00:29:53
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:29:54
Felicia Devine
And he obviously couldn't either. He like needed to be with me.
00:29:56
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:29:58
Felicia Devine
So I love chest sleeping. But again, if you just like read on the the information about like how to do it safely, then it can be done in ah and and a proper manner.
00:30:07
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:30:10
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:30:11
Natalie Richards
In general, those things are not having duvet on your bed, having too many pillows, sleeping in that like side curled
00:30:12
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:30:20
Natalie Richards
type of position, cuddle curl on the side of the bed that the edge is so that the baby's in the middle of the bed, doesn't have an ability or doesn't have a chance to roll away.
00:30:20
Felicia Devine
Cuddle girl. Yeah.
00:30:31
Natalie Richards
Not that they would when they're two weeks old, but eventually they can shimmy.
00:30:33
Felicia Devine
yeah they can they can shimmy yeah yeah know
00:30:39
Natalie Richards
They can certainly, they can certainly move. But typically if they hear you, smell you, feel you breathing, they're going be right with you.
00:30:46
Felicia Devine
yeah
00:30:46
Natalie Richards
Jean slept attached to my side. Like he was on his side.
00:30:50
Felicia Devine
yeah
00:30:52
Natalie Richards
He had to sleep like touching me for months.
00:30:54
Felicia Devine
yeah The other thing is it really is indicated if you're breastfeeding and if you're not breastfeeding, it is actually inherently more dangerous because you don't have those like hormonal signals.
00:31:02
Natalie Richards
Definitely.
00:31:07
Natalie Richards
Yes. This is true. Those hormones.
00:31:10
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:31:10
Natalie Richards
Yeah. Yeah.
00:31:11
Felicia Devine
So we will say that.
00:31:12
Natalie Richards
This is true.
00:31:12
Felicia Devine
But the other thing is like making sure like there's been no alcohol or drugs and like any reason that you wouldn't be alert and awake if, if
00:31:13
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:31:17
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:31:21
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:31:21
Felicia Devine
It need you needed to be I don't know like your partner has to be very aware like there's so many things that go into it.
00:31:26
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:31:27
Felicia Devine
But if you just read on how to do it safely, even if you're not planning to do it, if there was an emergency where you had to go sleep, like your baby's sick as a dog and you need to be with them, then like you at least don't have to research in the moment.
00:31:34
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:31:37
Natalie Richards
Yep. There's no kidding. Yep.
00:31:42
Felicia Devine
I thought co-sleeping was lovely when he was like a little shrimp.
00:31:42
Natalie Richards
I agree. Mm-hmm.
00:31:47
Felicia Devine
But then now that he's like a little toddler, all he wants to do is play.
00:31:52
Natalie Richards
<unk>
00:31:52
Felicia Devine
If I lay down with him, he's like, well, let's wrestle.
00:31:56
Natalie Richards
the Yeah.
00:31:56
Felicia Devine
let's Like we cannot co-sleep at this very point time because he just thinks it's so funny.
00:31:57
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:32:01
Felicia Devine
like Nothing is funny about you just whipping your little lovey around the bed, bonking me in the head and like poking my eyes and sitting on me.
00:32:05
Natalie Richards
to Oh my God.
00:32:09
Natalie Richards
Yep. Yep.
00:32:11
Felicia Devine
It's so funny because it is such like a cutesy stage.
00:32:14
Natalie Richards
It is so cute.
00:32:15
Felicia Devine
But I'm like, how do people closely get this age?
00:32:16
Natalie Richards
That's never going to end. That will never end. For whatever reason, Gene just would like – when I did it when he was older, and was at the point where he would not sleep in his crib.
00:32:19
Felicia Devine
No.
00:32:24
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:32:27
Natalie Richards
Like I just – I couldn't – and he was so big.
00:32:27
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:32:29
Natalie Richards
I couldn't like bounce him anymore. i couldn't rock him.
00:32:32
Felicia Devine
Right. Right.
00:32:33
Natalie Richards
There was just – he wouldn't fall asleep to a bottle anymore. I was like, what do we do here? Like I can't physically do this anymore.
00:32:37
Felicia Devine
I know. Mm-hmm.
00:32:41
Natalie Richards
so was like, okay, I'm tired. You're tired.
00:32:43
Felicia Devine
Mm-hmm.
00:32:44
Natalie Richards
We're just going to go lay in bed together and we'll see what happens.
00:32:47
Felicia Devine
What happened?
00:32:47
Natalie Richards
He just fell asleep.
00:32:49
Felicia Devine
Really?
00:32:49
Natalie Richards
eventually. Yeah. He just would like, as long as I was there next to him, he would just fall asleep or he'd have a bottle or something, whatever.
00:32:55
Felicia Devine
Wow. Yeah.
00:32:56
Natalie Richards
And he just like knew, but it was also, we got in the habit of kind of just going to sleep at the same time. So like we go through our life and we just like, he naps maybe during the day.
00:33:04
Felicia Devine
I have heard of that, yeah.
00:33:09
Natalie Richards
he wakes up at maybe like 8, 8.30 in the morning.
00:33:13
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:33:13
Natalie Richards
He goes to bed with me at 9.30, 10. And that's just how we live. and don't have to like go through a whole bedtime routine, get him to sleep, and then maybe have like an hour.
00:33:19
Felicia Devine
That's crazy.
00:33:25
Natalie Richards
i just like do my life stuff while he's awake still.
00:33:28
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:33:30
Natalie Richards
And then we just all go to sleep together. Yeah.
00:33:32
Felicia Devine
That's crazy.
00:33:33
Natalie Richards
I don't know. It just like worked better.
00:33:34
Felicia Devine
I'm just not there yet.
00:33:35
Natalie Richards
You know, like it just for me, it worked better.
00:33:35
Felicia Devine
Yeah. I'm just not there yet.
00:33:38
Natalie Richards
If it didn't work, I would have figured out something else.
00:33:38
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:33:40
Natalie Richards
But that was just like what worked.
00:33:41
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:33:43
Felicia Devine
I'm still nursing Sep to sleep.
00:33:45
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:33:46
Felicia Devine
And on nights that he like, we finished nursing and he's like, he'll literally look at me and like we're nose to nose.
00:33:46
Natalie Richards
Which.
00:33:51
Natalie Richards
It's
00:33:54
Felicia Devine
And he goes, hi.
00:33:54
Natalie Richards
it' like you think I'm going to sleep.
00:33:56
Felicia Devine
Hi. And he's like poking my nose and giggling. And I'm like, oh, I've used up all my tricks.
00:34:00
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:34:02
Felicia Devine
I have one trick.
00:34:02
Natalie Richards
Is there, i that's literally the only trick.
00:34:03
Felicia Devine
It's nurse to sleep. And when you, when you beat the trick, what are the other two?
00:34:08
Natalie Richards
That's when I started losing my mind.
00:34:09
Felicia Devine
I don't know what to do.
00:34:10
Natalie Richards
I was like, ah ah how do I get this child to sleep?
00:34:10
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:34:12
Natalie Richards
I don't, I don't know how to do this.
00:34:13
Felicia Devine
Oh, yeah.
00:34:15
Natalie Richards
I don't know how to rock him or bounce him. That's not my job. And
00:34:18
Felicia Devine
I'm literally like, what's the trick? What's step two?
00:34:21
Natalie Richards
what do we do now?
00:34:22
Felicia Devine
Cause I'm not about to do, well, the next one on the list we have is cry it out.
00:34:22
Natalie Richards
I know.
00:34:27
Natalie Richards
Right. And just like place him there and see what happens. yeah right. There's no – I know.
00:34:32
Felicia Devine
My nervous system is already frazzled. Cry it out would send me into cardiac arrest.
00:34:39
Natalie Richards
I tried it a couple times and i was like, no. Like he was not okay for like two days after.
00:34:42
Felicia Devine
No.
00:34:44
Natalie Richards
And I was like, this is not happening.
00:34:44
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:34:46
Natalie Richards
Nervous system dysregulation, like no, nope, nope, nope, nope.
00:34:46
Felicia Devine
We read. Yeah. No.
00:34:50
Natalie Richards
no
00:34:51
Felicia Devine
We read the book. Happy, happy sleep, happy sleeper. I think that was what it was called.
00:34:56
Natalie Richards
Yeah, that sounds right.
00:34:57
Felicia Devine
And it talks about like, Like developmentally appropriate things like as zero to three months, this is like developmentally appropriate and like they need to be like soothed and like, yeah, like you need to be doing it for them.
00:35:04
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:35:07
Natalie Richards
On you. huh Yes.
00:35:11
Felicia Devine
And then like sinking sleep cycles and like all this stuff. And I can't remember a lot of it because I was reading it in the depths of like despair.
00:35:19
Natalie Richards
know.
00:35:21
Felicia Devine
Again, one of those things like you don't want to have to research it when you're in the depths of it.
00:35:24
Natalie Richards
i know
00:35:26
Felicia Devine
But like at the age we were researching it, I think he was like eight-ish or nine months. And like... It was a gap of like, he wasn't nursing to sleep.
00:35:35
Felicia Devine
It was really weird.
00:35:36
Natalie Richards
yep yep mm-hmm
00:35:37
Felicia Devine
Like I couldn't get him to sleep and we were rocking, we were bouncing and we were switching and we were doing this. And then it was like drowsy bit awake. Like it was all these things. And like a lot of it was saying like, don't nurse to sleep anymore.
00:35:47
Felicia Devine
Don't associate sleep with nursing.
00:35:48
Natalie Richards
I know when
00:35:49
Felicia Devine
I don't know. Anyway, we tried it for a hot minute and he would cry.
00:35:52
Natalie Richards
you like pat their little back and you hold their hand like I can't I know I know I know and then they wake up still during the night and then what then what do you do
00:35:54
Felicia Devine
Yeah. He was devastated. He would cry and we would do like, let him cry for five minutes and go in. It was like horrifying. And yes.
00:36:05
Felicia Devine
And then, yeah. So I don't know. I mean, i have no, didn't, we, we have not figured it out.
00:36:07
Natalie Richards
come I'm no expert, that's for sure.
00:36:12
Felicia Devine
Okay. That's, that's all to say.
00:36:12
Natalie Richards
i have always only done what I'm capable of, and that's not much.
00:36:17
Felicia Devine
Soothing. Yes. i know.
00:36:24
Natalie Richards
And I will take the easy way every single time.
00:36:27
Felicia Devine
I just don't understand. Like, I don't know. Sleep has always been the hardest thing, but I think it's because we want to do what's best for their nervous system.
00:36:39
Natalie Richards
Yes, and that's not always what's best for ours.
00:36:40
Felicia Devine
And that is not. Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:45
Natalie Richards
And I do think part of part part of it, i have come to this conclusion, is we in some way do have to sacrifice ourselves in so many ways beyond just the sleep in order to like teach them how to do life.
00:36:49
Felicia Devine
Tell me.
00:36:57
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:37:02
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:37:03
Natalie Richards
And sleep is one of those things. And he will get it at some point.
00:37:05
Felicia Devine
I know.
00:37:06
Natalie Richards
And like they really do.
00:37:08
Felicia Devine
I know.
00:37:08
Natalie Richards
But I think it always comes back to connection.
00:37:13
Felicia Devine
Right.
00:37:13
Natalie Richards
always, at least for our situation.
00:37:14
Felicia Devine
Well, yeah. The second I walk in that room, he's like, I'm done crying.
00:37:16
Natalie Richards
So it's like, right.
00:37:19
Felicia Devine
I want to hold your hand.
00:37:20
Natalie Richards
And it's like, yeah, like, okay, so they just need more.
00:37:20
Felicia Devine
i want to nurse. So like it works. Yeah.
00:37:23
Natalie Richards
Like they just need more.
00:37:25
Felicia Devine
Yeah. And I know I'm like, even every day, I, every time I nurse him, I'm like, I just love this. And I never want this to end.
00:37:32
Natalie Richards
I know.
00:37:32
Felicia Devine
I mean, obviously it'll well, I'm not going be nursing my 10 year old, but I just like, I love it so much.
00:37:34
Natalie Richards
And then you hate it at the same time. Right.
00:37:38
Felicia Devine
And it is the number one most soothing thing to him.
00:37:43
Natalie Richards
yep
00:37:44
Felicia Devine
It literally, quite literally at this point in his life fixes every single problem.
00:37:48
Natalie Richards
Mm-hmm.
00:37:49
Felicia Devine
There's not a problem that nursing has not fixed for him.
00:37:51
Natalie Richards
Exactly.
00:37:52
Felicia Devine
So like, I'm not going to give it up anytime soon.
00:37:54
Natalie Richards
No. Because then what do you do?
00:37:55
Felicia Devine
And if he's crying, yeah, if he's crying in well the night, I'm going to nurse him.
00:37:57
Natalie Richards
That was the hardest part.
00:37:59
Felicia Devine
And I like know there's so many like parenting philosophies out there that are like, stop sleeping or stop nursing to sleep or like don't nurse him in the night when he wakes up.
00:38:00
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:38:07
Felicia Devine
It's like, A, that's the quickest way to make him stop crying.
00:38:07
Natalie Richards
Right.
00:38:12
Natalie Richards
Definitely. Mm-hmm.
00:38:12
Felicia Devine
And B, he'll still nurse to sleep at this point. Like he went back to nursing to sleep and I was like, I'm going to ride this out.
00:38:18
Natalie Richards
Thank God. Yeah.
00:38:20
Felicia Devine
I'm ride this out until until it doesn't work again.
00:38:20
Natalie Richards
Thank God. I know. And you really do.
00:38:22
Felicia Devine
And then I'm i'm like trapped.
00:38:22
Natalie Richards
You have to just do, you have to do what's the easiest truthfully.
00:38:24
Felicia Devine
But
00:38:26
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:38:27
Natalie Richards
And it really is okay.
00:38:27
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Yeah. I quite literally will nurse him to sleep until it doesn't work.
00:38:31
Natalie Richards
It's really, really okay.
00:38:35
Natalie Richards
There were so many times where I was just like cursing the end of my nursing journey when he – like after a year old, i was like, this is horrendous.
00:38:40
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:45
Natalie Richards
Like i i cannot spend this much time trying to get this kid to sleep.
00:38:50
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:38:50
Natalie Richards
And it's just like, oh my gosh. So I just like – I did realize I had to sacrifice a lot of my own like being okay
00:38:53
Felicia Devine
yeah
00:39:02
Natalie Richards
so he could be okay. And that's, that's, I guess what parenting is all about.
00:39:04
Felicia Devine
Right. And I think that is what parenting is all about. Cause I'm like, I could roll through a lot of things I've sacrificed.
00:39:11
Natalie Richards
and the I'm finally, I told you I'm fine.
00:39:13
Felicia Devine
My Pilates membership, gone. Bikinis,
00:39:19
Felicia Devine
gone.
00:39:19
Natalie Richards
finally have just gotten back to that three years later.
00:39:22
Natalie Richards
It's like, Oh my God, it's so sad but it's also okay.
00:39:22
Felicia Devine
I know. i know. I know. But it is like, I, I'm making this conscious choice because you could totally still go to Pilates as a mom. Like people do it.
00:39:33
Natalie Richards
You could if you'd like to burn yourself out. Yeah.
00:39:36
Felicia Devine
Yeah. But I'm like, okay, do I want to get a babysitter?
00:39:37
Natalie Richards
You have to sacrifice something.
00:39:41
Felicia Devine
Do I want to spend an hour commuting back and forth and then an hour doing Pilates?
00:39:41
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:39:44
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:39:45
Felicia Devine
It's like, no, I don't.
00:39:47
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:39:48
Felicia Devine
I don't. I am sorry.
00:39:48
Natalie Richards
What is this word? So like, could you? Yes.
00:39:51
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:39:51
Natalie Richards
And there are people who do, and that's wonderful for them, but there's 100% a sacrifice in some other area of their life.
00:39:55
Felicia Devine
Yes.
00:39:58
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Right.
00:39:59
Natalie Richards
Let's just be real about that. Like they're right.
00:40:00
Felicia Devine
Well, they have to pay. Yeah.
00:40:02
Natalie Richards
Like something else is giving.
00:40:04
Felicia Devine
yeah
00:40:04
Natalie Richards
They're not breastfeeding. They're not like, there's something else that has, that has fallen by the ways you decide, you decide on your priorities.
00:40:06
Felicia Devine
Right. Yeah. Yeah. And every, my sister and i yeah. Yeah. am i So my sister-in-law and I were talking last night about how like everybody struggles with
00:40:20
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:40:21
Felicia Devine
Everyone's struggling.
00:40:22
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:40:22
Felicia Devine
Don't get it twisted. We're all struggling, but everyone has different struggles.
00:40:25
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:40:27
Felicia Devine
And like how we could have like the same maybe monetary circumstances or like like we have roofs over our heads and running water, but like our situations internally are so different and everyone has their own struggles.
00:40:37
Natalie Richards
Mm-hmm.
00:40:41
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:40:43
Felicia Devine
And like, if you're choosing to like nurse to sleep because it's the easier option or you're choosing not to go to Pilates because you have no energy left to spare, like the struggle the struggle.
00:40:43
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:40:53
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:40:53
Natalie Richards
Yep. And it's easy to like see the few things that people have together on the outside and you're like, oh, I wish I had that.
00:40:54
Felicia Devine
know
00:41:02
Natalie Richards
Except for the fact that they are lacking maybe all the things that you are doing well, you know?
00:41:06
Felicia Devine
Right. Right.
00:41:07
Natalie Richards
So.
00:41:08
Felicia Devine
The amount of times i have threatened to sell my practice to Dan since becoming mom.
00:41:11
Natalie Richards
Oh my God.
00:41:14
Felicia Devine
I'm like, I'm selling my practice. And Dan's like, are we going to talk about this? And I was like, yeah, when I'm not in my luteal phase, me three or four more days.
00:41:20
Natalie Richards
Right. Let's see. Don't let me make a decision in one day. Let's just give me a whole menstrual cycle to figure it
00:41:27
Felicia Devine
If I say something, you need to give me at least seven days, plus or minus, to make a logical decision.
00:41:33
Natalie Richards
out.
00:41:34
Felicia Devine
Because and the amount of times I'm just like, oh, I'm throwing in the towel.
00:41:34
Natalie Richards
For real.
00:41:39
Felicia Devine
I'm throwing it in.
00:41:39
Natalie Richards
Yep. It's so easy to say that because it's just like, I don't want to do this.
00:41:41
Felicia Devine
you know.
00:41:45
Felicia Devine
Mm-hmm.
00:41:45
Natalie Richards
There's something that has to give, but I always come back.
00:41:46
Felicia Devine
And then... But we always come back around.
00:41:51
Natalie Richards
And it does really get – like each day gets a little bit easier and a little bit easier.
00:41:55
Felicia Devine
Does it?
00:41:56
Natalie Richards
It it really does.
00:41:57
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:41:57
Natalie Richards
I promise. It does.
00:41:58
Felicia Devine
All right.
00:41:59
Natalie Richards
youll Right now, you're not at that moment.
00:42:01
Felicia Devine
Oof. No.
00:42:02
Natalie Richards
you are You are in the thick of it. Like – that was my worst time.
00:42:05
Felicia Devine
Yes.
00:42:08
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:42:08
Natalie Richards
like where you're at right now was my absolute worst time.
00:42:11
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:42:12
Natalie Richards
Cause it just also like the allure and the, like the allure of having a baby wears off a little bit you and for other people, because you no longer have like a tiny little baby anymore.
00:42:22
Felicia Devine
Right?
00:42:26
Natalie Richards
everybody assumes that everything's just fine.
00:42:29
Felicia Devine
No, you're so right.
00:42:29
Natalie Richards
And then you're like, no, wait, I am not okay. Still like, where is my postpartum help now?
00:42:33
Felicia Devine
Yes. No, literally, grieve. I grieve the saying, i just had a baby.
00:42:42
Natalie Richards
ah that it's For real.
00:42:44
Felicia Devine
Grieve it. It literally haunts me because I'm like, I want to verbally tell people I just had a baby.
00:42:46
Natalie Richards
I can't that anymore. And
00:42:51
Felicia Devine
I'm i'm still postpartum.
00:42:52
Natalie Richards
and they're like, how old is your baby?
00:42:52
Felicia Devine
I just had a baby. And I'm like, he's 16 months old. I just had him. At the bar the other night, or I i say the bar, at the restaurant we were out to dinner with some family.
00:43:05
Felicia Devine
And somebody goes, oh, how old is he? I'm like, a year. No, he was a year, half a year ago.
00:43:10
Natalie Richards
Right.
00:43:13
Felicia Devine
But in my head, I'm like, no, he's a baby.
00:43:15
Natalie Richards
Oh, he is.
00:43:15
Felicia Devine
He's a baby. He's an infant. He's he's a fetus, okay?
00:43:17
Natalie Richards
And you know what? He is still.
00:43:20
Felicia Devine
He's...
00:43:20
Natalie Richards
He is. He's still inside me. Okay.
00:43:23
Felicia Devine
Yes. Yes. So I will forever grieve not being freshly postpartum to have that verbal excuse because you're right.
00:43:26
Natalie Richards
a I know. Yes. But
00:43:32
Felicia Devine
that It's so hard now. And I'm like, wait, nobody made me, nobody made me a home cooked meal and drafted off on my porch.
00:43:40
Natalie Richards
I know. Wait, I have to cook?
00:43:44
Felicia Devine
I need that now.
00:43:46
Natalie Richards
For real. Like I feel that so deeply.
00:43:49
Felicia Devine
It's crazy.
00:43:49
Natalie Richards
And you also like have used up every ounce of extra cortisol that you had in your body and you no longer can actually like survive off of yours off of your stores anymore.
00:43:49
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:43:56
Felicia Devine
Yes.
00:44:03
Natalie Richards
and you're like, wait, I i don't know. i don't know if I can actually do this.
00:44:05
Felicia Devine
No, it's crazy.
00:44:08
Natalie Richards
Mm-hmm.
00:44:09
Felicia Devine
It's crazy. So let's bring, let's bring like a movement forward and let's say moms need postpartum support starting in and around 16 to 18 months.
00:44:20
Natalie Richards
Yes. It would be way more helpful.
00:44:21
Felicia Devine
We need a resurgence.
00:44:23
Natalie Richards
We need a meal train that goes out a year and a half.
00:44:26
Felicia Devine
Or let's predate when we have the baby for 16 months to launch.
00:44:32
Natalie Richards
Seriously.
00:44:33
Felicia Devine
Is this why people have second babies? So they can just have like a resurgence of help?
00:44:38
Natalie Richards
I'm not going to say it's not why.
00:44:40
Felicia Devine
Because at this point, people are having second babies that I had babies with.
00:44:44
Natalie Richards
and isn't that like, I can't even...
00:44:45
Felicia Devine
Is that it? Is that the mindset? They need help.
00:44:48
Natalie Richards
I don't know. And it's like, okay, let me just like live in this despair a little bit longer and just go through all of this again.
00:44:49
Felicia Devine
So they're like, let's just have another one.
00:44:55
Felicia Devine
So that you can you can hold on to the, I just had a baby.
00:44:59
Natalie Richards
Maybe.
00:45:00
Felicia Devine
Okay, so maybe I just need to have a baby so I can say it again.
00:45:01
Natalie Richards
No.
00:45:04
Felicia Devine
No, I was...
00:45:04
Natalie Richards
Only if it's right for you.
00:45:07
Felicia Devine
Disclaimer, only if it's right for you. yeah
00:45:09
Natalie Richards
but If you feel like you need to do that, you can do that.
00:45:11
Felicia Devine
Oh my gosh. Wait, that's a cute little disclaimer. Only if it's right for you.
00:45:15
Natalie Richards
Only if it's right for you.
00:45:17
Felicia Devine
But how do you know what's right for me?
00:45:21
Felicia Devine
Because I don't know what's right for me.
00:45:22
Natalie Richards
Are you feeling the itch?
00:45:24
Felicia Devine
Kind of.
00:45:25
Natalie Richards
Oh, God.
00:45:26
Felicia Devine
No, I'll tell you what my itch is. I want another baby.
00:45:30
Natalie Richards
Support. Love and support.
00:45:32
Felicia Devine
love and
00:45:32
Natalie Richards
Your itch.
00:45:34
Felicia Devine
want another baby. I don't want to be pregnant again. It's the pregnancy.
00:45:38
Natalie Richards
Oh.
00:45:38
Felicia Devine
And it's only the first 20 weeks. I don't want to do weeks 5 through 18.
00:45:41
Natalie Richards
No, that you don't want to do again. yeah o Yeah, it was like so bad.
00:45:43
Felicia Devine
I don't want to do it. I had anxiety, depression, sickness. I was exhibiting the worst side of myself.
00:45:50
Natalie Richards
Oh, no.
00:45:51
Felicia Devine
So I want the baby. i don't want the pregnancy.
00:45:54
Natalie Richards
I've always said I would adopt.
00:45:56
Felicia Devine
Would you?
00:45:56
Natalie Richards
I don't want the postpartum, but I would adopt a four-year-old.
00:45:58
Felicia Devine
come
00:46:00
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:46:02
Felicia Devine
Very specifically, four-year-old that's going to be anywhere between 6'5 and six eleven
00:46:09
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:46:11
Natalie Richards
But i wouldn't i will never I will never do the process again. ah don't think.
00:46:15
Felicia Devine
Never say never, Natalie.
00:46:16
Natalie Richards
Only because of what we've just talked about right now.
00:46:16
Felicia Devine
Only if it's right for you. I know.
00:46:18
Natalie Richards
Like I just can't do that whole thing again.
00:46:19
Felicia Devine
I know.
00:46:22
Natalie Richards
and Not in the way that I did it before, I guess I should say.
00:46:24
Felicia Devine
No, I'll do it again. i will 100% do it again.
00:46:27
Natalie Richards
Yeah. I think you have to heal.
00:46:28
Felicia Devine
i just don't know when.
00:46:29
Natalie Richards
You have to heal in a lot of different ways first.
00:46:32
Felicia Devine
I gotta heal this noodle.
00:46:33
Natalie Richards
You've got to heal. There's a lot of things that need to get healed.
00:46:37
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Yeah. But I'll chest sleep again for sure.
00:46:41
Natalie Richards
For sure. and and not like second guess anything because you're like, yeah, absolutely.
00:46:42
Felicia Devine
Let's take it back to that co-sleeping. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:48
Natalie Richards
I'm going to co-sleep from day one. I remember trying so hard in those first couple weeks to try to get his butt to sleep in the bassinet.
00:46:57
Felicia Devine
I remember you texting me. You're like, what is the point?
00:46:59
Natalie Richards
And I'm just like, what the heck is this? This is dumb.
00:47:01
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Cause neither of you were sleeping.
00:47:02
Natalie Richards
i can just i could just lay down and both of us sleep. It's great.
00:47:06
Felicia Devine
i know. I remember you would send me like your aura ring and you're like, this is my aura ring data without co-sleeping. And this is with co-sleeping.
00:47:14
Natalie Richards
Great. Yes.
00:47:15
Felicia Devine
It was like as if you were a normal person, if you would co-sleep.
00:47:17
Natalie Richards
Yes. ah ah Same, better deep sleep, actually.
00:47:18
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:47:20
Natalie Richards
And like more, like better RSV.
00:47:22
Felicia Devine
More restfulness.
00:47:25
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:47:25
Natalie Richards
RSV. What am I trying to say?
00:47:28
Felicia Devine
ah ah je
00:47:29
Natalie Richards
HRV. I couldn't, it wasn't there. HRV.
00:47:34
Felicia Devine
RSV. That's a sickness.
00:47:37
Natalie Richards
h r z
00:47:39
Felicia Devine
Also not known as HIV.
00:47:40
Natalie Richards
Everything, everything was better while co-sleeping.
00:47:42
Felicia Devine
HRV. Yeah.
00:47:43
Natalie Richards
It was crazy. Versus if I had to be up for an hour in the middle of the night trying to get him back to sleep, then my sleep tanked.
00:47:49
Felicia Devine
Right. I know. i know. i know. Okay.
00:47:55
Natalie Richards
So, okay, because, wow.
00:47:55
Felicia Devine
Let's talk about one more topic because I think we've only touched on like two.
00:47:59
Natalie Richards
two Let me see if I have anything good.
00:48:01
Felicia Devine
Okay. Oh, I did want to talk about Montessori parenting.
00:48:07
Natalie Richards
Oh, yeah. Yeah, let's do it.
00:48:08
Felicia Devine
and That's on my list. I added that to my list. Okay. So I really like Montessori.
00:48:16
Natalie Richards
I think it's amazing.
00:48:18
Felicia Devine
It's like, here, let's teach our kids how to be capable humans in society.
00:48:23
Natalie Richards
Yes. it's Yeah, it is. it's cheat It's fostering independence in things that are appropriate at that moment.
00:48:27
Felicia Devine
Yes. Age appropriate.
00:48:31
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:48:31
Felicia Devine
Right.
00:48:31
Natalie Richards
I think it's amazing.
00:48:33
Felicia Devine
I love it. And it's honestly like principles I've brought into my own like existence of like a clean home is a clean brain.
00:48:38
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:48:40
Natalie Richards
Simplicity.
00:48:42
Felicia Devine
Like it's just like simple.
00:48:43
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:48:45
Felicia Devine
thing I posted about this on Instagram this week, there's this phrase that they use in, I can't remember if it's the baby. Cause I've read the baby book and the toddler book.
00:48:54
Natalie Richards
Okay.
00:48:55
Felicia Devine
And they have like other books too, but I've read in one of the books, or maybe it's in both actually, the phrase, a place or yeah a place for everything, everything in its place.
00:48:56
Natalie Richards
Sorry.
00:49:06
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:49:07
Felicia Devine
And it's like, well, yeah, that makes sense. Then you you know, a where to predict things come from and where things go.
00:49:09
Natalie Richards
Duh.
00:49:14
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:49:14
Felicia Devine
And also you're not staring at clutter all day long.
00:49:17
Natalie Richards
Right. You don't have to think about where is this going now.
00:49:20
Felicia Devine
Yes, it has a place.
00:49:20
Natalie Richards
It just has a place. I know I've been working on that.
00:49:23
Felicia Devine
I love it.
00:49:24
Natalie Richards
Yep. It's amazing.
00:49:25
Felicia Devine
A place for everything, everything in its place.
00:49:26
Natalie Richards
I think it's so great. I wish that the Montessori schools around here weren't like, well, first of all,
00:49:38
Natalie Richards
they're very expensive. Second, which is not the worst part of it.
00:49:40
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:49:43
Natalie Richards
I get that they need to be.
00:49:44
Felicia Devine
Ours isn't that expensive.
00:49:46
Natalie Richards
That's amazing.
00:49:47
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Well, maybe I'm wrong.
00:49:48
Natalie Richards
Ours, you can only, and all they have for even kindergarten, like preschool and kindergarten is all day, five days a week.
00:49:53
Felicia Devine
Mm-hmm.
00:49:57
Natalie Richards
I'm like, I don't want that.
00:49:58
Felicia Devine
That's their philosophy. I know. i know.
00:50:00
Natalie Richards
I think that's ridiculous.
00:50:02
Felicia Devine
i know, but I get where they're coming from because they're teaching routine and they're creating consistency and expectation.
00:50:03
Natalie Richards
Oh,
00:50:07
Natalie Richards
I know. Yeah, I know.
00:50:11
Felicia Devine
And that's like the thing with toddlers is, and part of their premise is that toddlers and children who don't have critical thinking skills yet, they can say like, A leads to B, B leads to C.
00:50:25
Felicia Devine
Like they can't say like, okay, well, there's also like C with a, like a blue hinge or a blue tinge and then C with an orange tinge. Like it really is like, that's why the five days a week, full days, it's because Monday we go to school, Tuesday, like, I don't know.
00:50:38
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:50:42
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:50:42
Felicia Devine
I get it.
00:50:42
Natalie Richards
It creates a schedule.
00:50:43
Felicia Devine
Yeah, it creates a schedule and it's like understanding that a meltdown because of like lack of routine is normal for a toddler.
00:50:44
Natalie Richards
I know.
00:50:52
Natalie Richards
Right.
00:50:54
Felicia Devine
Like you're going to see outbursts and meltdowns if you don't have expectation of like this leads to this.
00:50:55
Natalie Richards
Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:01
Natalie Richards
What's coming next?
00:51:03
Felicia Devine
And it kind of sounds like you're inflexible maybe. Yeah. But I feel like the inflexibility is what helps create flexibility down the road, if that makes sense.
00:51:08
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:51:14
Natalie Richards
Later. Yeah. No, I get that.
00:51:16
Felicia Devine
It's like dependence leads to codependence leads to independence.
00:51:18
Natalie Richards
who I get that. I get that.
00:51:20
Felicia Devine
Like, so I don't know. I i like their philosophies. I don't i know. so Do you think Montessori is cultish?
00:51:28
Natalie Richards
Ugh. Very interesting take.
00:51:31
Felicia Devine
I don't know if I'm far enough into it because I'm still in like the baby stage. I don't know. Like as you get a little, don't think so though.
00:51:36
Natalie Richards
I think it, I don't know. I think it could have its hit its tendency only because some people say like this is, that's the only way. And like if you don't follow this to a T, then you're not doing it properly.
00:51:44
Felicia Devine
That's the only way. Right.
00:51:48
Felicia Devine
Right.
00:51:48
Natalie Richards
Or, you know, like if you're not, if you're not integrating all of the principles, so then something's not going to work right.
00:51:49
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:51:53
Felicia Devine
Right.
00:51:56
Felicia Devine
Like ah fundamentalist Montessori person.
00:51:58
Natalie Richards
Yes. Yes.
00:52:00
Felicia Devine
Yeah. And I don't know. I just, I really like the way that it presents like opportunity for your kid to be involved. Kind of like what you're saying of like, we go about our routine and like Gene integrates into that.
00:52:13
Felicia Devine
And we've taught him how to exist inside of a normal structured life and not like, okay, you're a baby.
00:52:13
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:52:17
Natalie Richards
yeah
00:52:20
Felicia Devine
You have to do baby things.
00:52:21
Natalie Richards
Here's your things. Yeah.
00:52:22
Felicia Devine
Like, and like, yeah, there are age appropriate things, but I just, I don't know.
00:52:23
Natalie Richards
yeah
00:52:26
Felicia Devine
i really vibe with it.
00:52:27
Natalie Richards
No, I think it's great. i Overall, I think it's awesome.
00:52:31
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:52:32
Natalie Richards
I just like couldn't get behind the, I don't know. I can't get behind the all day.
00:52:36
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Because you know what would happen, Natalie?
00:52:37
Natalie Richards
Mainly because truly, I just don't want to bring him every day.
00:52:38
Felicia Devine
You would have to pack a lunch.
00:52:40
Natalie Richards
i know. I just don't want to bring him every day. But let's just be real. Okay. Yeah, I can.
00:52:43
Felicia Devine
You're like, are creating Montessori in the home. No, but that's what I do, you know, and that's fine.
00:52:48
Natalie Richards
Exactly.
00:52:50
Felicia Devine
I don't want to have to take him Montessori school right now. So I'm just bringing Montessori into the home. And I think it's honestly, it's working for us because like I've been giving him tasks.
00:52:54
Natalie Richards
Exactly.
00:52:57
Natalie Richards
I think that's great.
00:53:00
Felicia Devine
He can't speak yet. Like he...
00:53:01
Natalie Richards
Right.
00:53:03
Felicia Devine
Homie doesn't want to say mom yet. Okay. He babbles, but he's like, he's holding out on me. But like, I can literally say a directive to him that he's never had to do before. Like I can literally say, Giuseppe, can you please go in the pantry and get one pouch and bring it back to mommy?
00:53:21
Natalie Richards
Mm-hmm.
00:53:22
Felicia Devine
I've never told him how to do that. I've never taught him how to do that.
00:53:24
Natalie Richards
but he's seen you do it.
00:53:25
Felicia Devine
But he's seen what he's heard me do.
00:53:26
Natalie Richards
He knows where they exist.
00:53:27
Felicia Devine
He knows where they exist. He knows what I'm talking about.
00:53:30
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:53:31
Felicia Devine
And then he goes and performs. And I am just like, are you a baby genius?
00:53:34
Natalie Richards
Yep.
00:53:35
Felicia Devine
Like, what's his IQ? Probably high. Because he literally will go into the pantry pick one pouch, come back.
00:53:42
Natalie Richards
Here's the thing about kids.
00:53:44
Felicia Devine
He's 16 months old.
00:53:45
Natalie Richards
I know. I think if we give them the opportunity to do these things, they we realize they are very capable.
00:53:48
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Yeah.
00:53:51
Natalie Richards
Yeah.
00:53:51
Felicia Devine
Yeah. And it's not a task that I'm asking him to climb up three chairs and like injure yourself.
00:53:55
Natalie Richards
so It's very appropriate.
00:53:56
Felicia Devine
It's an appropriate task.
00:53:57
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:53:57
Felicia Devine
They're at his level. He can go grab one and bring it back.
00:53:59
Natalie Richards
yes Yes.
00:54:00
Felicia Devine
I give him things to throw away in the trash can. He goes, he throws them away. It's just like, I just, yeah, I'm just floored by his comprehension.
00:54:03
Natalie Richards
Yes. It's normal human stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I think you would love Hunt Gather Parent book. I think you should read it.
00:54:14
Felicia Devine
Now have to develop a monster name, Natalie.
00:54:16
Natalie Richards
No, no, no, no. there's There's so many other parts to this book beyond the monsters.
00:54:19
Felicia Devine
No, I will. I'll look into that because I have heard of it. I have heard of it.
00:54:21
Natalie Richards
It's really good. at Minus the first part.
00:54:22
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:54:24
Natalie Richards
I think she wrote the book during COVID. So I always give this this disclaimer because she talks about like how important it is to get the COVID vaccine and all this stuff.
00:54:27
Felicia Devine
oh
00:54:33
Felicia Devine
Oh.
00:54:34
Natalie Richards
So it's just like, we're going to forget about this.
00:54:36
Felicia Devine
We're going to rip pages one through 20 out.
00:54:37
Natalie Richards
Don't read the foreword and just like move right along.
00:54:39
Felicia Devine
Oh, weird. Why she doing that?
00:54:42
Natalie Richards
I don't know.
00:54:42
Felicia Devine
She limited her audience.
00:54:44
Natalie Richards
Yes.
00:54:44
Felicia Devine
That's rude.
00:54:45
Natalie Richards
Yes. i That's what I remember about it. I'm like, I so i have to give the disclaimer.
00:54:49
Felicia Devine
so I've been disclaiming something recently. i forget what it was. I don't know, but I love giving people real life disclaimers.
00:54:57
Natalie Richards
I know.
00:54:57
Felicia Devine
Like I'm like, I'm like, who do I think I am giving people disclaimers?
00:55:02
Natalie Richards
i know that people can People can come up with their own conclusions.
00:55:05
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:55:05
Natalie Richards
I know.
00:55:05
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:55:06
Natalie Richards
like what i say Why do I feel the need to do that?
00:55:09
Felicia Devine
I don't know.
00:55:09
Natalie Richards
Or to make sure like people don't think that I think that way. Yeah.
00:55:14
Felicia Devine
I'm like, I'm going to go ahead and recommend you go to this place.
00:55:15
Natalie Richards
Let me just be clear.
00:55:18
Felicia Devine
But disclaimer,
00:55:20
Natalie Richards
Don't look at that sign on the wall. but Like everything else about it is really good.
00:55:23
Felicia Devine
Oh my God. But if you get the chicken cordon bleu, I did not recommend it.
00:55:28
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:55:31
Natalie Richards
Exactly.
00:55:33
Felicia Devine
Oh man.
00:55:34
Natalie Richards
i think this was great.
00:55:35
Felicia Devine
This is great.
00:55:36
Natalie Richards
It was great.
00:55:36
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, that's all for episode 10.
00:55:40
Natalie Richards
Wow. This was a big one.
00:55:41
Felicia Devine
Thanks for joining us. It was.
00:55:43
Natalie Richards
feel like we need to reward ourselves with something.
00:55:43
Felicia Devine
and it, I know, I know we should, what should we go? We should go buy a fancy treat.
00:55:47
Natalie Richards
yourself with it. Yes. Get yourself a little treat.
00:55:50
Felicia Devine
A little treat.
00:55:51
Natalie Richards
Oh, I know what I'm going to get. Oh my gosh.
00:55:52
Felicia Devine
Ooh, what are you gonna
00:55:53
Natalie Richards
There's this place. There's this like, I think it's Yem... I don't know, some sort of Middle Eastern coffee place that just opened.
00:56:01
Felicia Devine
Oh.
00:56:01
Natalie Richards
And they make like a pistachio latte, but it's like the real pistachio cream that you'd get on, you know, those that like Dubai chocolate that everybody's losing their mind over.
00:56:11
Felicia Devine
Yeah, very popular.
00:56:13
Natalie Richards
It's basically that filling on the on the inside of this latte. And it's so good.
00:56:18
Felicia Devine
That's so up your alley.
00:56:20
Natalie Richards
so good.
00:56:21
Felicia Devine
Oh, that's very you.
00:56:22
Natalie Richards
So I'm going to go get that.
00:56:23
Felicia Devine
Okay.
00:56:24
Natalie Richards
We deserve it.
00:56:24
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:56:25
Natalie Richards
Treat yourself.
00:56:25
Felicia Devine
I'm making buffalo wings for the Eagles game today.
00:56:27
Natalie Richards
o Oh, the Eagles game.
00:56:30
Felicia Devine
Go birds.
00:56:31
Natalie Richards
birds.
00:56:32
Felicia Devine
Go birds.
00:56:33
Natalie Richards
I don't really care, but go birds.
00:56:33
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:56:35
Felicia Devine
Now there's like, and disclaimer, go birds.
00:56:35
Natalie Richards
situation
00:56:39
Natalie Richards
When does hockey start again?
00:56:40
Felicia Devine
o Oh yeah. You're a hockey girl. I couldn't care less about hockey.
00:56:44
Felicia Devine
Even though Dan played hockey growing up.
00:56:44
Natalie Richards
i know.
00:56:46
Natalie Richards
I know. and wonder if Dan's going to want Seth to play hockey.
00:56:49
Felicia Devine
It's just so stinky.
00:56:50
Natalie Richards
Well, they all are.
00:56:51
Felicia Devine
and And it's indoor. I don't like indoor things.
00:56:54
Natalie Richards
Yeah, you're going to be chilly.
00:56:55
Felicia Devine
Don't make me sit inside a ring or what's it called?
00:56:55
Natalie Richards
I can't wait. i can't
00:56:57
Felicia Devine
Rink.
00:56:58
Natalie Richards
rin but I can't wait to go sit inside of a cold rink in a t-shirt.
00:57:02
Natalie Richards
I can't wait.
00:57:04
Felicia Devine
That's not for me. No, my my options for Giuseppe will be cross country and that's it.
00:57:11
Natalie Richards
Okay. Cool, cool.
00:57:14
Felicia Devine
Everyone runs at the same time that you can only run for so long. It's over within a matter of minutes.
00:57:20
Natalie Richards
It's over.
00:57:21
Felicia Devine
Not minutes, but swimming.
00:57:23
Natalie Richards
I like that. Sad amount of time.
00:57:26
Felicia Devine
Swimming gives me this scare. o
00:57:29
Natalie Richards
I know.
00:57:29
Felicia Devine
And all the chlorine.
00:57:30
Natalie Richards
think Gene would be a great swimmer, but it does make me – I know.
00:57:31
Felicia Devine
I know, but his poor teeth.
00:57:33
Natalie Richards
It makes me nervous.
00:57:36
Felicia Devine
I don't know.
00:57:37
Natalie Richards
We'll have to figure – I'll have to put him in a swim team in a saltwater pool.
00:57:39
Felicia Devine
I can't wait.
00:57:40
Natalie Richards
i don't know.
00:57:41
Felicia Devine
i can't wait to listen back to these episodes when the kids are like 16.
00:57:44
Natalie Richards
yeah and they're like playing football, which is like my hard no.
00:57:49
Felicia Devine
Wait, Natalie, you know, when, like I've seen the the Hills, like the participants. So I don't know whoever's on the Hills. Is it Chris and Cavallari? Maybe she'll do like a podcast where they like rewatch the episodes and
00:57:57
Natalie Richards
Yeah, Kristen Cavallari. Yeah.
00:58:01
Natalie Richards
Oh, I love it.
00:58:03
Felicia Devine
in like 15 years, we should do a re-relisten of our episodes when we' we're like talking about our kids this young.
00:58:06
Natalie Richards
Yes. Oh, we have to.
00:58:10
Felicia Devine
And then like, and then, I'm dead.
00:58:11
Natalie Richards
On their graduation date.
00:58:16
Felicia Devine
We'll have to do it.
00:58:16
Natalie Richards
So sad. Okay.
00:58:17
Felicia Devine
And then we can be like, cannot believe we had those thoughts.
00:58:19
Natalie Richards
Wow.
00:58:21
Felicia Devine
Little did we know.
00:58:21
Natalie Richards
We were.
00:58:22
Felicia Devine
Yeah.
00:58:22
Natalie Richards
Yeah. The world is going to be so different again in 15, 20 years.
00:58:26
Felicia Devine
Yeah. Yeah. yeah Well, until next week, thanks for joining us.
00:58:30
Natalie Richards
Okay.
00:58:32
Natalie Richards
Bye.
00:58:33
Felicia Devine
Bye.