Transcript
Speaker: Welcome to the Shit Talk Podcast.
Speaker: I'm your host, Liz Broder.
Speaker: Are you ready to shoot the shit?
Speaker: Welcome back to the Shit Talk Podcast.
Speaker: It's almost the end of January.
Speaker: I have to say I was super nerdy and actually looked up the sunrise and sunset times and it's a leap here.
Speaker: And I found a
Speaker: that on February 29th,
Speaker: It's the first day that the sun rises at 6.30 a.m.
Speaker: and it sets at 5.46.
Speaker: So I don't know if that's motivating for anyone.
Speaker: That was exciting to me because it's like, okay, we basically have one month left of this ridiculousness and then sun's going to be rising earlier.
Speaker: Well, it's rising earlier every day, but 6.30 a.m.
Speaker: is like a solid rise time and giving us daylight until 5.46.
Speaker: So keep that in mind if you are someone struggling with winter time changes or
Speaker: the darkness, anything like that.
Speaker: But today's episode is somewhat related to that.
Speaker: It's about diet and our guts and depression and perhaps what people call, quote, winter blues, end quote, which can oftentimes stem from a lack of sunlight leading to low vitamin D, which impacts mood.
Speaker: I'm not really talking about vitamin D, but that oftentimes is correlated with lower weight.
Speaker: sunlight and shorter days, unfortunately.
Speaker: So you'll hear doctors a lot of times if you have low mood in the winter, they'll say, oh, what are your vitamin D levels?
Speaker: Get vitamin D up.
Speaker: That's where that stems from.
Speaker: But anyway, getting right into it, I have some statistics.
Speaker: I always try to start with stats if I can, depending on the topic.
Speaker: Of course, depression, the CDC has loads and loads of stats.
Speaker: So the CDC estimates that about 50%, 5-0% of Americans will be diagnosed with a mental health condition sometime during their lives.
Speaker: And data collected in 2020 found 18.4% of US adults, that's nearly one in five, reported having been diagnosed with depression at some point in their lives.
Speaker: Now, that's a lot.
Speaker: I can tell you just from seeing people
Speaker: in one-on-one nutrition counseling, honestly, I never tallied it up, but I could tell you close to 90%, 95% of people I saw were either on an antidepressant or on an antidepressant and an anti-anxiety.
Speaker: So regardless of stats, whatever those CDC stats were, regardless of that, I can tell you just from meeting people in practice that it's very common.
Speaker: And even if people don't necessarily take them, like anti-anxiety, sometimes people have for like specific situations, but
Speaker: They are certainly prescribed and many people have them.
Speaker: So very common, whether it adds up with the stats or not, I don't know.
Speaker: But even the stats, like nearly one in five U.S. adults has been diagnosed with depression at some point in their life.
Speaker: That's that's pretty high.
Speaker: I would guarantee, I guess I'm not going to guarantee, but I would guess that that number looks very different for Europe and Asia and other parts of the world.
Speaker: I don't think people have depression at rates as high as the United States.
Speaker: That's just my opinion.
Speaker: Now, getting into diet and depression.
Speaker: Science has shown time and time again that dietary habits characterized by a high intake of fruits, veggies, whole grains, fish, olive oil, low-fat dairy, and antioxidants, and low intakes of animal foods are associated with a decreased risk of depression.
Speaker: Whereas dietary habits characterized by a high consumption of red and processed meats, refined grains, sweets, high-fat dairy products,
Speaker: butter and potatoes, and low intakes of fruits and vegetables is associated with an increased risk of depression.
Speaker: A study published in the British Journal of Psychiatry analyzed the dietary patterns and risk of depression in around 3,500 participants over a five-year period, so for a decent amount of time, and they found that individuals eating whole foods reported fewer symptoms of depression compared to those who ate
Speaker: mostly processed foods.
Speaker: Another study from nutrition journal found when comparing vegetarians versus omnivores.
Speaker: So people who eat meat versus people who don't eat meat, they found that the vegetarians reported more positive moods than the meat eaters.
Speaker: Very interesting.
Speaker: Now I dive a little bit more into the gut and depression.
Speaker: Science has also shown us that a diverse and healthy gut microbiome, how many times you're going to hear me say about that?
Speaker: It's all about the microbial diversity, but anyway,
Speaker: Science has shown a diverse and healthy gut microbiome, which we achieve through a diet rich in diverse sources of plants, which is diverse sources of fiber and fermented food.
Speaker: Science showed this to be associated with reduced symptoms of depression and anxiety.
Speaker: Many studies suggest that a diet high in fiber and fermented foods positively influences the gut-brain axis, which potentially alleviates depression symptoms.
Speaker: I'm not going to say potentially, I'm going to say
Speaker: Yes, that would help alleviate depression symptoms because we know that these types of foods are the best support for the gut and a happy gut is a happy brain.
Speaker: Now, major depressive disorder or MDD, that's the clinical diagnosis.
Speaker: So major depressive disorder is associated with microbial dysbiosis, which is an alteration in microbial diversity due to the disrupted balance of microbiota in the gut, aka it creates an imbalance in the gut microbiome.
Speaker: Now, there are specific strains that they see more and less of in people with and without depression.
Speaker: I'm not pronouncing them.
Speaker: It's so many names.
Speaker: I was reading the study.
Speaker: I'm like, I can't do that to anyone.
Speaker: But the point is they are able to see higher and lower specific strains of bacteria in those with depression versus those not depressed.
Speaker: And we, of course, see more pro-inflammatory bacteria in those with a depletion
Speaker: of anti-inflammatory bacteria in those with depression, AKA gut inflammation.
Speaker: So we see that those who are depressed have more of the inflammatory bacteria and less of the anti-inflammatory bacteria.
Speaker: We don't want that, obviously.
Speaker: Studies have found that some evidence that there is actually an increased risk of severe mental disorders, things like depression, anxiety, and psychosis, following antibiotic use, even five to 10 years after use.
Speaker: That is crazy to me,
Speaker: I did touch a little bit on antibiotic use in the gut reset episode, but that's kind of scary.
Speaker: A recent systematic review actually indicated that the association between antibiotic use and a subsequent development of depression.
Speaker: So that's kind of scary too.
Speaker: You know, same thing.
Speaker: And we know that antibiotics reduce the diversity of the gut microbiome.
Speaker: I did mention in my gut reset episode, Florastore is a yeast based probiotic.
Speaker: It works for people typically very well.
Speaker: Those with IBS is oftentimes what it's recommended for.
Speaker: But my point is if you're on antibiotics, which kills all your bacteria and you still want to spread your gut, you can take Florastore.
Speaker: It will not get killed off by antibiotics because it's yeast.
Speaker: It's not bacteria.
Speaker: It's a yeast based probiotic, not a bacterial based probiotic.
Speaker: So that's just something to consider now.
Speaker: going more into inflammation.
Speaker: Science has showed us that diets high in anti-inflammatory foods have a decreased risk of depression, while diets with all the highly inflammatory foods, processed foods, show increased risks of depression.
Speaker: When inflammation reaches the brain, subsequent feelings of anxiety, stress, hopelessness, and depression oftentimes arise.
Speaker: So frankly, this all, it all checks out.
Speaker: More inflammation, higher risk of depression, anxiety, and so on.
Speaker: That is
Speaker: has never made more sense to me.
Speaker: I'm sorry.
Speaker: And for anyone who's been listening long time or has listened to multiple episodes, you would know I would say that because I always say it all comes down to inflammation.
Speaker: This actually brings me to, I read a book back in the day on antidepressants and depression called A Mind of Your Own by Kelly Brogan.
Speaker: It was published in 2016.
Speaker: So it was before I started my nutrition education and nutrition endeavors.
Speaker: But when I read it, it was news to me that inflammation was associated with depression or really anything at that point in my life because I thought of depression as emotion-based and brain chemistry, as they called it.
Speaker: So that, I remember reading it being like, oh my God, wow, this is shocking.
Speaker: But it absolutely stood out in my mind.
Speaker: And I remember being like, okay, so keeping inflammation down, mood will stay up.
Speaker: It's just good to know.
Speaker: And now viewing that and the – I should go back and read it, but given what I learned as a dietician and remembering that book, I should, one, go back and read it, but I know that it's all about inflammation and inflammatory versus anti-inflammatory foods and that the gut-brain connection, which shows the more inflammation in the body, often from the diet, then the higher the likelihood of mental illness or things like depression, anxiety,
Speaker: OCD, even bipolar disorder, things like that.
Speaker: So this really does make sense to me.
Speaker: And like for me, my point is when I read that in 2016, I was like revolutionary.
Speaker: I had no idea inflammation would have had anything to do with mental health or depression or your mood.
Speaker: And then as a dietician, if you had to ask me, what do you think one thing that you could control that would help with mood?
Speaker: I would probably say inflammation because inflammation truly does lead back to everything.
Speaker: But
Speaker: It's kind of fun.
Speaker: It gets boring because you're like, people want an exciting new answer, so maybe they try something different.
Speaker: There's really no exciting new answer.
Speaker: My answer is always the same.
Speaker: Focus on whole foods.
Speaker: Focus on fiber because these are the foods that are anti-inflammatory, high in antioxidants and vitamins and nutrients.
Speaker: They keep disease down.
Speaker: They support your gut, which talks to your brain.
Speaker: So if they're supporting everything, most importantly, your gut is
Speaker: which in turn, like I said, impacts everything.
Speaker: But right now what we're talking about is the brain and mental health.
Speaker: So when in doubt, increase your whole foods and your anti-inflammatory foods and your fiber.
Speaker: And this brings me back to the diet because naturally who has a diet high in plants and fiber and omega-3s, which are healthy fats and low in processed foods and sugar and red meats.
Speaker: I'll give you a hint.
Speaker: They were a part of my episode a few weeks ago in the blue zones.
Speaker: The Mediterranean region, of course, two of the blue zones are there, Ikaria, Greece, and Sardinia, Italy.
Speaker: But the Mediterranean diet is characterized by high consumptions of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and olive oil, which has omega-3s, healthy fats, and moderate intakes of fish, poultry, and wine, and very low intakes of sugar, processed foods, processed meats.
Speaker: And it has shown significant protective effects against depression.
Speaker: Studies have actually reported reductions in depression risk as high as 73% with adherence to the Mediterranean diet.
Speaker: And a 12-week randomized controlled trial, that's the gold standard in clinical... Anytime you're doing any sort of clinical test, an RCT or randomized controlled trial is what we consider the gold standard, like the best thing you do going to get you the most accurate results.
Speaker: So a 12-week RCT found that the Mediterranean diet significantly relieved depressive symptoms and
Speaker: and increased quality of life in young males that had been diagnosed with clinical depression.
Speaker: The Mediterranean diet is also associated with a higher gut microbial diversity and lower levels of gastrointestinal inflammation and the integrity of the intestinal barrier.
Speaker: So it not only helps just support overall wellness, better mood, it helps support a healthier gut and keep inflammation down.
Speaker: Now, I just want to do
Speaker: a small section on plants a little more closely, because I talked a lot about plants and plant foods.
Speaker: How does that impact health and your mental health in particular?
Speaker: So plant foods are high in antioxidants and phytochemicals.
Speaker: Phytochemicals are just like, chemical has a negative connotation, but here phyto plant, it's just like, I just say plant nutrients.
Speaker: So plant foods are high in antioxidants, phytochemicals, which generally help repair oxidative damage and decrease inflammation in brain cells.
Speaker: Plant foods can also help restore balance to neurotransmitters, which are a big part of depression.
Speaker: Think SSRIs.
Speaker: So this is a large class of drugs used to treat depression, Lexapro, Prozac.
Speaker: And SSRI stands for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors.
Speaker: Serotonin is a neurotransmitter.
Speaker: And these drugs help serotonin accumulate in the brain.
Speaker: And so people feel better, feel happier.
Speaker: So I'm mentioning that because
Speaker: talking about how plant foods can help restore the balance of your neurotransmitters, something that SSRIs manipulate in order to help people with their moods.
Speaker: Another thing to mention is we also see that many people suffering from depression have higher levels of something we call monoamine oxidase, MAO.
Speaker: This is an enzyme that breaks down these neurotransmitters, specifically serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine.
Speaker: Those three neurotransmitters help regulate mood.
Speaker: So since MAO helps break them down,
Speaker: Higher levels of them, or excuse me, higher levels of MAO is associated with depression because it leads to lower levels of those specific neurotransmitters.
Speaker: Now, there is a phytochemical called quercetin.
Speaker: It's found only in plant foods and it acts as an MAO inhibitor.
Speaker: So this helps increase the amount of serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine in the brain, which can then help with mood.
Speaker: Foods that are high in quercetin include apples, kale, berries, grapes, onion, and green tea.
Speaker: So basically my point here is just that serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine, these are what we call feel-good hormones, they're neurotransmitters.
Speaker: They are often things that we see out of balance, some of the things that are referred to when you hear the chemical imbalance.
Speaker: Those are some things that get out of whack that we see with depression.
Speaker: which is why the drug class SSRIs, like I said, helps serotonin accumulate in the brain, helps people's mood increase.
Speaker: For most, they are very successful antidepressants.
Speaker: For some, they are not.
Speaker: But the point is, neurotransmitters are impacted by your food, monoamine oxidase in particular, and the plant chemical quercetin can help
Speaker: inhibit MAO if there are too high levels of it and it's screwing with your neurotransmitter balance.
Speaker: Okay.
Speaker: Summing it up.
Speaker: What's the takeaways?
Speaker: Takeaway is like every episode, number one, support your gut.
Speaker: Supporting your gut helps keep inflammation down and communicate happily to the brain.
Speaker: Inflammation in the gut impacts inflammation in the brain and brain cells and therefore your mental health.
Speaker: Reminder, how do we support the gut?
Speaker: Fiber, plants,
Speaker: Fruits, veggies, whole grains, nuts, seeds, lentil seeds, chia seeds, keeping sugar down, keeping alcohol down, keeping processed foods down, those damage the gut.
Speaker: Fermented foods are also good for the gut.
Speaker: Sauerkraut, kimchi, fermented yogurts, fermented pickles.
Speaker: So supporting your gut, this helps keep inflation down and keep happy messages going to the brain.
Speaker: Takeaway two, diets higher in plants are associated with lower rates of depression.
Speaker: They're higher in antioxidants and nutrients that help fight inflammation.
Speaker: They also feed your gut microbes because they have fiber.
Speaker: So they're supporting your gut health, which is supporting your brain health.
Speaker: The other thing I just mentioned, plants also contain something called quercetin, which helps keep that monoamine oxidase enzyme in check.
Speaker: It inhibits it.
Speaker: So this in turn allows neurotransmitters to function more efficiently and maintain
Speaker: healthy levels, all of which impacts the brain and mental health.
Speaker: Point three, control inflammation.
Speaker: This is probably a very consistent common theme in almost every episode.
Speaker: I definitely talk the most shit about inflammation.
Speaker: I don't feel one iota badly about it.
Speaker: Avoid sugar, avoid alcohol, avoid processed foods, avoid junk.
Speaker: For some people, dairy is actually highly inflammatory.
Speaker: Depends who you are.
Speaker: I'm not going to say cut out all dairy.
Speaker: I'm just saying these are foods that are associated with inflammation.
Speaker: We want to keep inflammation down and focusing on plant-based foods and fiber and whole foods.
Speaker: One, it's going to help you cut back on junk because you're focusing on these healthier foods.
Speaker: You're going to run out of room.
Speaker: And two, those are where they're going to help keep inflammation down and therefore a healthier gut and ideally a healthier mood.
Speaker: Now, if you are someone looking to try a specific diet, I would say start with the Mediterranean diet.
Speaker: Like I mentioned,
Speaker: high in all the anti-inflammatory foods that are associated with lower risk of risks of depression, fruits and veggies, whole grains, olive oil.
Speaker: They do have animal sources of protein, moderate intakes of fish, poultry, low intake of processed meats, processed foods, sugar.
Speaker: So something to consider if you are someone who is perhaps struggling with the winter blues or finds your mood dips a little
Speaker: different times of year.
Speaker: I also just think the numbers, like the studies reported reductions in depression risk as high as 73% with those who adhere to the Mediterranean diet.
Speaker: I mean, a 73% reduction in risk, that's huge.
Speaker: So why not give it a try?
Speaker: The food's delicious.
Speaker: You can literally Google Mediterranean diet recipes.
Speaker: There are so many on the internet.
Speaker: And another reason why I'm buying it because the Blue Zones.
Speaker: They all, well, excuse me, they don't all, the two, two of the five, Ikaria and Sardinia, adhere to the Mediterranean diet.
Speaker: They're on the Mediterranean.
Speaker: That's what they eat.
Speaker: That's, it's, they don't think of it as a Mediterranean diet.
Speaker: It's just their diet.
Speaker: And that's two of the five places where people live the longest and the healthiest.
Speaker: And I think the exact statistic was 10 times the rate of centenarians than America.
Speaker: So they have 10 times more people living to a hundred and healthy at a hundred and above.
Speaker: So
Speaker: That's my, that's the spiel on deprive, deprive it.
Speaker: That's diet plus depression, deprive it.
Speaker: That's the spiel on diet, depression, and your gut.
Speaker: And as always, inflammation and the gut, it always leads back to those two things.
Speaker: And if you don't know where to start, if you're totally lost, start eating more fruits and vegetables.
Speaker: That's the simplest advice I can give you.
Speaker: The other thing I do want to note too, because I'm speaking about depression and I have mentioned antidepressants,
Speaker: There are definitely people that are on mental health drugs and need to take them.
Speaker: This is not encouraging you or telling you to get off those drugs and just do it through diet.
Speaker: This is if you are interested or if you're someone who does take antidepressants and wants to come at this from another angle, start focusing on your diet, but it's definitely something to discuss with your doctor.
Speaker: If you do want to get off of any sort of drugs,
Speaker: You need to taper down.
Speaker: You need to do it with medical supervision.
Speaker: You don't just stop taking them.
Speaker: And there are people that no matter what their diet is, will need to take them for whatever reason.
Speaker: So I don't want this being misinterpreted or taken in the wrong way.
Speaker: And always discuss any changes with prescription meds with your doctor.
Speaker: Absolutely.
Speaker: And that's it.
