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What Fatherhood Reveals About Men | Pat Barber
113 Plays20 days ago
In this episode of The Men’s Collective Podcast, Travis Goodman sits down with Pat Barber to talk about fatherhood as a mirror, coaching as self-awareness, and what it means to become the kind of man your kids actually need. Pat shares how decades of coaching movement, developing coaches, and raising four boys have forced him to look honestly at himself, grow through discomfort, and rethink what real leadership looks like.
This conversation explores how fatherhood can bring out both your best and your worst, why good coaching and good parenting require flexibility, and why so many men struggle with not having it all figured out. Travis and Pat also talk about raising good adults instead of just obedient kids, creating emotional safety in the parent-child relationship, and the importance of helping men know they are unconditionally loved.
In this episode:
Pat Barber on fatherhood as a mirror
How coaching others exposed
Pat’s own blind spots
Why good coaches and good dads adapt to the individual
The difference between raising good kids and raising good adults
Why men struggle with shame, failure, and not knowing
The role of unconditional love in male growth and emotional health
If you are a father, coach, husband, or man trying to grow with more intention, this episode will challenge and encourage you.
🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube
🌐 Learn more at menscollective.co or travisgoodmanlmft.com
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Music by Scott Buckley – released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au
Recommended
Transcript
Exploring Fatherhood: Growth and Reflection
00:00:00
Speaker
and want more men to see like it as the opportunity that it really is, which is just this this mirror that gets shined back at you as in little you know blobs of humans that can that that are showing you your best and worst qualities constantly. And yeah um you get this you have more of a profound reason to be different than you've ever had in your life. you know like I love waking up and being a dad, and it doesn't come without its struggles, but...
00:00:29
Speaker
That's why I'm here. and That's what I do is is these days I sit around and and try to think of ways that I can get more men to approach fatherhood with a mindset like I have so they can walk away and go like, this is great. I love this. It's hard. I love this. So. yeah Fatherhood has a way of bringing out the best and worst in yourself, and that is at the center of my conversation with Pat
Meet Pat Barber: Coach and Father
00:00:53
Speaker
Barber.
00:00:53
Speaker
Pat has spent decades coaching movement and developing coaches, but some of the deepest, most profound changes he found came from raising his four boys. This episode is about fatherhood as a mirror, coaching a self-awareness, and growing and being the kind of man that your kids need you to be.
00:01:10
Speaker
The most important things to know about me, well, I'm a father, like a father of four kids, four boys. Apparently I can't make girls. That's all I do is make a whole bunch of boys. um I am the husband to an amazing woman who, you know, she's just absolutely incredible. And I absolutely lucked out in finding her. um And it was one of those things where when I met her and we got married, I had like accomplished an entire list of all my life goals within like four years of knowing her.
00:01:38
Speaker
Um, like, and I had to sit back and go like, oh, uh, I should probably, should probably write some new life goals. Um, so, so it's been definitely an amazing ride being married to the woman that I'm married to.
From Movement to Leadership: Pat's Coaching Journey
00:01:51
Speaker
I would say things to know about me and who I am. I, i I've been doing CrossFit for 20 years, 22 years. I've worked as a coach for most of that time. Um, and started just as like some punk kid and, and then really found connecting with people and coaching them through movement, very fascinating. And that eventually turns into, being so mundane and easy that you start coaching the person and you go, okay, well, the most effective way for me to get you to move is, is, is for me to get to know you and know who you are.
00:02:24
Speaker
So, uh, those, those types of things became deeply intriguing to me, uh, And I don't know how much you know about the CrossFit methodology, but the whole purpose of it is to be constantly examining what you're doing to see if it's giving you the outcome that you want. So I was raised within the methodology of looking at, you know, how does this stuff work? And I'm only doing it to achieve an outcome. So I'm not tied to any of the things that I'm doing. and So I can be infinitely curious. Um, I, I believe in what I'm doing because I've seen it work so many times, but I'm also not so tightly tied to it that I couldn't try something else and be like, maybe this works better. um
00:02:58
Speaker
So I've taken that application through all of my coaching and developing coaching and then developing leaders and coaching coaches. And for the last like 12 or 13 years, it's mainly leadership development. So teaching coaches how to coach, which when you're teaching people how to move, it's about commenting on their movement.
00:03:15
Speaker
When you're teaching people how to coach, it's about commenting on who they are. and And how they're perceived, which is ah is ah it's a very different back and forth. um yeah And within that comes you know a lot of trial and error of like trying to develop people's ability to communicate or ability to deliver
Fatherhood as Experimentation and Growth
00:03:38
Speaker
material. And on a base level, it's like, Hey, say these things. And you watch them say those things and you're like, Ooh, not like that. And then you have to go, then you have to go into why and all these different things. So I've found the whole process of, of developing coaches very, very,
00:03:55
Speaker
meaningful to the development of my own psyche because so much of what I saw in people were parts of myself and parts of, uh, the way I connected to the world. And I was like, Oh shucks, that's not as effective as I thought it was. Cause when I see you use it and i watch how it plays out, it just doesn't work. So it was this constant examination of like, how do I,
00:04:17
Speaker
How do I most effectively get you to be effective at what you do? And that's that's what I've done for a long time. And then I you know had kids and wanted to examine fatherhood through the same lens of like, what are we trying to do? Like, what is what is this whole thing? Like, um I'm not tied to any one thing. I've never done this before. So let's let's try stuff and see if it works. yeah um I'm also quite a contrarian by nature. Like I like to challenge things. That's what I've done since the very beginning, but not just for the sake of challenging them. Like I'll challenge it. Cause I'm like, that doesn't make sense to me. Let's, let's unpack it.
00:04:50
Speaker
um I feel like these days when you say you're against the grain or contrarian, you're like, you're into millions of conspiracy theories and, I'm like, hey, that's that's wild. Like, you also have to challenge your conspiracy theory. You have to go, why? why like you're you're taking You're saying, I'm goingnna challenge the narrative. And then you buy into this like half-baked ass theory. It's like, what? What is wrong with you? Like, like pay it yes, challenge the narrative, but also then challenge the the thing that you're now trying to adopt from an Instagram post that you saw. so Yeah.
Mindful Fatherhood: A Call to Men
00:05:23
Speaker
Um, I've, I've brought that thought process into raising kids and, and I've, I've struggled, but had a lot of success and I have four amazing sons and I have, uh, done a ton of personal development in the last, I'd say four or five years. And it's all led me to a place where like, I, I just want more men to feel the way I do about fatherhood.
00:05:47
Speaker
I want more men to see like it as the opportunity that it really is, which is just this, this mirror that gets shined back at you as in little, you know, blobs of humans that can, that, that are showing you your best and worst qualities constantly. And, um you get this, you have more of a profound reason to be different than you've ever had in your life. You know, like I love waking up and being a dad and it doesn't come without its struggles, but,
00:06:17
Speaker
That's why I'm here. And that's what I do is, is these days I sit around and and try to think of ways that I can get more men to approach fatherhood with a mindset like I have so they can walk away and go like, this is great. I love this. It's hard. I love this. So yeah, yeah I guess those are the things you should know about me. Yeah,
Coaching Evolution: From Movement to Mentorship
00:06:37
Speaker
no, that's great. That trajectory from teaching, ah you know, showing humans how to move well through coaching clients in CrossFit to then teaching coaches. You're right. It's different. It's ah it's a shift. and And I like what you said, what I saw in others. I saw parts of myself like,
00:06:55
Speaker
I saw myself in them and I didn't necessarily like what I was seeing and how it was playing out. So it was that mirrored and you even said with your kids, there are little blobs that mirror you and, you know, and something else that said i was more men, I want more men to feel like how I feel about fatherhood, you know, yeah as you were coaching men or other coaches, you started seeing a mirror to yourself um that you didn't like necessarily in yourself. Can you speak a little bit of like what that might've been and then sure what you've done to overcome that and change?
00:07:23
Speaker
Sure. um i think we're all coming. i think as we grow, well, how should i say this? I think we all have different ways that we move through the world. I know that we all have different ways that we move through the world. And so we're all gonna need different things in order to grow and change. um My journey is gonna be very different than a lot of other people's. My personal journey was learning how to care about what other people thought about me, right? A lot of people,
00:07:54
Speaker
didn't like they, they, they need to let go of other people caring. Like the mine was like, I was raised, I could do no wrong. Like I, my, my, my mom was like, yeah, you're the best. You're the best. You're the best. I had to come to the realization that I'm not the best. And that's really, really okay. And it's like, I'm just a side character and that's awesome. Great. This is so cool. You know? And so, but what I had, what that meant was my coaching journey was like, when I first started, i was like, I was going to give you what I was going to give you. And you're either going to like it or you're going to love it. Right.
00:08:28
Speaker
And and, but I thought that everyone loved it because I wasn't paying attention to the response. I was like, I know that I, people work with me and they're, they're good. So, and then as I grew, i and I started seeing coaches like that. I would watch the interactions that they would have with people and I'd watch some people walk away and not be okay. And I'm like, Oh, maybe people are doing that with
Learning from Feedback: Personal and Professional Growth
00:08:50
Speaker
me. You know, maybe people are walking away and they're not actually experiencing it. And I actually made this post years ago on my main, uh, my, my old channel. And I was like, Hey, if I've ever coached you, I want you to tell me about that experience. And I had like, you know,
00:09:03
Speaker
300 comments on it and each one, maybe it wasn't three, i maybe it was like 200 and something, but each one, you could kind of tell where I was at in my journey based off of what it was. And they were all like relatively positive, but one were like, you came up and you gave me so much shit. Oh, you were such a hard ass. And I was like, ooh. And then other ones would be like, you know, you really took care of me and you bla bla blah, blah, blah. And it was it was all like positive, but I could see all of the things about it that i was like oh, I've grown so much from where I started. and And that took me seeing other people, you know, fail in a way that i did stuff to be like, oh my gosh, that's that's me. and yeah And the same sort of deal, I actually, on the flip side of that, I watched people who weren't me succeed and they were very different than me. And I was like, oh,
00:09:50
Speaker
there's something there that I need to take on board. There's something to be learned from this. And that was like, the original journey was like learning that I wasn't right. And that was, again, this is, this is my journey is like everyone.
00:10:03
Speaker
i think most people, well, now let me throw this out there. Most people don't do the things that they're doing because they think that they're wrong. that They don't fight the fights that they're fighting. Cause they're like, I'm really wrong. I'm going to fight this fight. yeah They go, I think this is right. So I'm going fight it. And, but I think I think deeply insecure people will might not, or might go one way or another, and they might just be like, I'm shit all the time, and then not make those fights. But I think for me, it was realizing that I was wrong, like fundamentally, not wrong, but like there's other rights. had wait till I 34 years old to learn that, 32 years like,
00:10:38
Speaker
four years old to learn that you know thirty two years old be like oh dang, like there's other ways to do this. Um, but that that's, it's been great because as soon as I accepted being wrong and like, that was fine. And I'm a side character and all these other things. Like,
00:10:58
Speaker
life gets way better for me. So whereas, and and this is where i i i I think people are so different. like, if I say that, there's people who would take that advice and it would be the worst advice that they could go run with.
00:11:10
Speaker
You know, like if they were like, if they're already downtrodden, if they're already in this place and they already they're trying to build this confidence up, Where it's like, I was the guy who needed to be knocked down and recognize their own mortality and recognize they're there to support other people, not be this center stage turd bag.
00:11:31
Speaker
and that was And that was really good for me. So that was that experience. And that's that's kind of how it all went down.
Adaptive Parenting: Tailoring to Each Child
00:11:37
Speaker
Well, and and I think you're, I do agree with you. I think there's no one, like, I think there are some universal truths to a degree, but it how you apply it may look slightly different. I mean, having three kids of my own, I do believe in creating some sense of like acknowledging with my kids or safety connection, like presence.
00:11:58
Speaker
But how I go about that with all three is different because they're all different kids. And so if I just, for example, my eldest son, i found out early on that one way to help his when he was really struggling emotionally, having just having a hard time, tantrum, dysregulation, whatever word you want to use,
00:12:16
Speaker
hugs were a great way to help shift gears for him. And he actually like would start, Hey, I need a hug. You then start coming to us. I need this. man Great. That was the initial way to pivot to kind of throttle down, so to speak, the emotion and kind of ride the wave.
00:12:33
Speaker
Um, and so I'm like, great, cool. Hugs are great. Second kid comes around. was not a hugger. I mean, not that he didn't like hugs, but when he was in that state, didn't want to be touched. so I remember trying to apply that. I'm like, no, you need a hug.
00:12:47
Speaker
Like, I know you need hug. And he's like, no, like, don't touch me. hate you And I had to learn that. And then my daughter even more so, who's a little like fireball, who's either completely feral or completely like jeweled princess. Yeah.
00:13:04
Speaker
It's, it's, it's, it's this.
Coaching Techniques: Adapting and Learning
00:13:06
Speaker
this I don't know where it's come from. i didn't do nothing. This is just how she was born, dude. But same thing. Don't touch her. like you know but So i had I had to adapt. like I know so they needed safety because I know from my training, understanding how the nervous system works, it's looking for that. But how I go about it, I have to approach them uniquely.
00:13:26
Speaker
sure Just like your point. like We all have to go through this, I think, wake-up call of realization yeah um that we probably aren't doing everything effectively.
00:13:39
Speaker
Yeah. And we have areas of growth. Like I don't even like to, i don't even like to moralize things as right or wrong. I like to say, is it really effective and sustainable or not? Totally. I think, I think it's a much better way to look at it. So we all have to go through that myself included, and it might look a little different, like your journey. And I know you talked about the hero's journey and my journey.
00:13:58
Speaker
While we probably have some similarities with some differing questions we might ask or, ah or emotions that we face, the how it is definitely different.
00:14:08
Speaker
Totally. And what we might have needed, again, might be somewhat different. But it's still kind of similar. or It's similar in the sense that we're still asking these questions to reflect, to pay attention. But the how, and that's important. We have to treat each individual person in a way uniquely to say, I can't just say one size fits all, here you go, yeah because that's not the case.
00:14:30
Speaker
yeah and and to And to say that, again, back to your point, is that, well, everyone has to do this one thing and that's the answer. Well, then we get into a really sick situation because, again, what if someone is actually not in a place to receive that? And, in fact, because we're so forced forcing this one thing, that actually becomes and more of a turnoff and detrimental to their well-being.
00:14:51
Speaker
Yeah, and that's what that's the art of coaching. the art like That's what ah a truly good coach will do is they'll meet them where they're at and give them exactly what they need to hear it. And I think that that's what inexperienced coaches do poorly is they they've got one tool, right? They're limited in their toolbox. And like that's why you continue to explore new avenues of learning and new language and new application.
00:15:11
Speaker
And you're treating each situation very individually and being like, this is what's, I think this is what this person needs. And even then you'll apply it and you'll be like, well, that didn't work. You know, like like that's that's the that's the real nature of coaching. You just, as you become more experienced, you do that quicker and and you've developed such a more robust toolbox that you can be far more nuanced with it.
00:15:33
Speaker
And I think that that's what's fascinating about coaching. like ah performance, not performance, but like movement coaching, movement coaching is basic. It's like the basics of movement coaching are like, there's 20 cues. There's, it's go a little deeper, push your knees out, lift your chest up, drive your elbows up, brace your stomach, lift your chest up, you know, uh, sit back in your heels and, uh, you know, pull your, ah push your, pull your arms in your body. Like that's like the, that's 90% coaching. Yeah, I've heard all those things and they do help when if i'm not doing it if yeah if I'm not doing it. So yeah, I agree. Totally. But there's an infinite variation of how people respond to those. yeah and then there's and then And then you can take it further and further and further. And what i whats what's fascinating to me, and and maybe you see this in the in the therapeutic world, is that what'll happen to coaches is they'll they'll start and they'll have just that handful cues. They'll be really effective for a while because that's what most people respond to.
00:16:28
Speaker
Now, they they can't get themselves out of really sticky situations, but but most situations handle well with those. And then what happens they learn a little bit more, and they think they've figured it out. So what they do is they start trying to give everyone these really complex things, and you're like, what are you doing?
00:16:44
Speaker
Like, go back to the simple. Go back to just like, what? where are we at here? Like, are you, are you doing the basics? Because they're, they're so wrapped up in their new education that they don't, they, they kind of miss the forest for the trees, uh, sort of deal where they're, they're so detail oriented that they, they lose sight of it. And that's where I think a lot of like the Instagram fitness world is. They're like, or the Andrew Huberman's or the blah, blah, blah, where you're like, dude, you're so nuanced with what you're talking about that it doesn't matter. You're talking about like a 0.0001% percent change in a human being who's already at an elite level when most people just need to eat well and sleep better and do a little bit of movement. Like it's it's fascinating to me because, and then you see the really good coaches will circle back around and they'll be like, ooh, I'm gonna know everything.
00:17:35
Speaker
but I'm just gonna give you the little bloop, like the little, here's what you need right now and like push you down the road. So I don't know if you see that in the therapy world, but i I see it all the time in in the movement this world.
00:17:47
Speaker
Yeah, and I would agree, because even fresh out of grad school, like, you know, you you get like a tool, um you know, like one thing. And so I knew early on I needed to grow, because, you know, it's funny, when i think of grad school, which is a lot of work to go through grad school, it's like, that was like just the doorway being opened.
00:18:06
Speaker
But that began my journey to learn so much more. I like learning. so And when I started seeing clients more frequently, like all the time, I'm like, oh, I saw where my natural giftings were and strengths, and then I saw my holes. Like, I'm not really equipped to deal with this effectively. I need to go learn something and train. And so, you know, this tool bag is like I begin to gather a bunch more tools and learning how to apply it, which is good coaching. I would say that's really good anything. It's good teacher, a good teacher.
00:18:35
Speaker
a good coach, a good therapist, a good parent is learning how and when to apply, when to listen, when, you know, and which is really wisdom, right? When do and discernment, like when do i implement this or share this?
00:18:48
Speaker
When do I step back and allow, when do I intervene? and it's not about perfection, right? There's no perfect, it's learning. And even actually through the, I tried something, it didn't work. That's actually an important part of the process too, whether you're a parent, a father, you know, coach, therapist is that, oo Okay, that didn't work. Why didn't it work?
00:19:04
Speaker
Now, I could take that as an ego hit and say, ooh it's because I'm broken, not enough, a POS, whatever it is, and take that personally, which a lot of people do, and they get stuck in that narrative. Or it's like, ooh, no, this is an opportunity to grow and to try something different, to try again.
00:19:21
Speaker
maybe... and maybe offer something else or maybe learn something else or i need to go and and get some help and some mentorship from someone that maybe has done this, right? Like I may not have it all figured out. And when I think of men in this space,
00:19:34
Speaker
you know, men specifically or fathers in this, like whether they're a coach or they're, you know, they're a therapist himself or they're a parent.
Vulnerability in Men: Accepting Failure
00:19:42
Speaker
I have seen for a lot of men, they could struggle with that initially with that acceptance of, i don't have it all figured out. And you know what? That's okay.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah. Versus, Oh, ah I'm that failure, shame, heavy shame. You know, I need to like prove, you know, prove and like, show you that I'm fine and, you know, use that kind of aggressiveness or like whatever to, you know, to make my way known versus, you know, it's okay.
00:20:07
Speaker
But it doesn't say that I'm less than, it just means I got to learn something. That's a good thing. That's super hard because it's often not modeled, right? And I think a lot of parenting and and our our frameworks and stuff are modeled by our parents. That's my personal belief structure, ah at least from what i've what I've read and what I've what i've experienced. there's There's so much modeling that goes on. And i I think a lot of men were raised simultaneously in a culture that didn't model that, but then didn't have individual men who modeled, you know, those kinds of things for them. The ability to be like, well, I'm wrong. I don't really know, you know, like, and that's totally fine. Doesn't really mean that much. And I'm going to try again, you know, like,
00:20:47
Speaker
um i was very fortunate and lucky to to have a father who was absolutely like that my my father's name is jerry and i thought the term jerry rig was after my father like i went to college and someone was like i jerry rigged it and i'm like how do you know my dad and he was like that's a term and i was like no because that is how he builds. Like he figures it out. yeah He makes mistakes. He screws stuff up and he's like super mellow. And he's like, it was never about that. So I got lucky. I had some really good models, you know? Does that mean I'm coming out of this perfect and unscathed? Absolutely not. I've got all my own demons. But I think that exactly what you're speaking to
00:21:23
Speaker
when it comes to being able to accept like, this is a trial and error thing, like that is life. Like, I i think that the sooner you can accept that life is a trial and error thing and most of the actual errors aren't like life or death. Most of the things that are, that are, that we're dealing with are like very minor consequences. Uh, I think that that's where a lot of people from my perspective need work is like, dude, it's,
00:21:49
Speaker
it
Parenting Fears: Impact on Development
00:21:50
Speaker
doesn't matter. Like the stuff like, hey, you missed that phone call. It's okay. Like you don't need to lie about it. You don't need, it you just, I missed the phone call. I'm so sorry. Like those, those like, I think that those are the the steps that a lot of, I see so many people who are not progressing struggle through is like that, that just like the inability to correctly frame the true dangers of what's happening. Like if we go back to the bagel stuff, it's like, like, I just don't think a lot of these dangers truly are as dangerous as, as, as they, they appear to you. I mean, they might feel very, very dangerous, but like,
00:22:31
Speaker
Even kids, i think I think that's where a lot of parents get stuck, where you're like, I'm really scared they're going to grow up to be a terrible person if they didn't remember to take the silverware and set it up for everyone. And I'm like, what?
00:22:45
Speaker
like That was like one time. You could get like 7,000 other times to to have this conversation. like You don't need to lose it on them for the one time. And then did you model it? Did you do the thing? like Yeah, it's a <unk> fun world.
00:22:59
Speaker
Yeah, keep going back to the vagal thing too, the polyvagal theory is that um yeah when the guys are stuck there, they're stuck in their own threat state. yeah And it's perceived, right especially if you're saying, hey, it's okay, but they might perceive this you as actually a threat of like, no, I can't be honest or just own it because there's a fear of something bad, whatever the bad is. or you know there's always It's always fear-based. It's always fear-based. I will say that.
00:23:26
Speaker
there's And you might say it differently, but it's all about something bad happening in fear. Sure. That keeps a lot of guys stuck, even though you're like, hey, you're good. Like, let's just learn this. And that's where they have to make that leap of, oh, okay. And that's in the presence of you of like, maybe they learn that, okay, he won't, you know, Pat's not going to rip me a new one or tell me these things and I got to learn something different and I'm having a different experience with this guy, Pat. That's different. I'm not used to this and because I'm used to whatever, fill in the blank, the response from dad, mom, teacher, parent, you know whatever, coach, previous coach to say or do a certain thing. And so I'm already pre-anticipating what's to come. Hence, I'm already in this state of like,
00:24:05
Speaker
either kind of shut down and freeze or like a fight, you know, or like, let me just please Pat. And, you know, I'm anxiously trying to please and am I doing it right? Am I doing it right, Pat? Is this right? You know?
00:24:16
Speaker
And, and again, same with parenting that we could also get stuck in that space. and We could also see, and you mentioned this too, like we could see our kids and all our parents get stuck as our own fears being projected. And we see them in a way, our own selves being seen,
00:24:31
Speaker
And we could sometimes over course correct and our own anxieties, worries come out on them. Right. Hence like the silverware. Oh, they're not going to be capable. Right. This is which is a survival state too. It's threat.
00:24:42
Speaker
Sure. One second. i'm I'm getting yelled at by a man who broke the the line. Rick. A few moments later. Exciting day.
00:24:53
Speaker
Yes. Have fun editing this one. the ah The thing that I was thinking of when you were when you were talking through that, that kind of even earlier too, is like I also think that people sometimes don't look to outcomes. And kind of that go back to the very thing that i was... right that they're look They're so focused on the moment that they're not being like, well, what are we were really trying to do here? you know like What's the long-term play? like Especially in parenting, they're so focused on the moment that you're like, well, what's what if you step back and we're like...
00:25:23
Speaker
maybe this is about letting it play out because are my long-term outcome is I want them to be able to do this on their own. And if I step in right now, they're not going to learn to do it on their own. They might be a little safer if I step in right now, like safer, but what's the long-term danger?
Raising Capable Adults: Guidance over Control
00:25:42
Speaker
Like what's the long-term of like them not feeling capable because mom always did it for him or dad always did it for him. or So it's like, it's where you're putting your emphasis, like where, what, what is the outcome you're trying to have? And like, are you trying to have good kids or are you trying to have good adults? Like, like, is it cool that they talk back to you? Yeah. I'd love to have my kid talk back to me. Like, I'm not going to be have it disrespectful, but yeah. Talk back to me. Tell me why you think we shouldn't be doing this. Explain it to me. I, I, I'm happy to have that conversation with you. You know, I'm not going to shut that Well, actually, well, again, think about it all depends on how you define these things. But I think that a psychological, emotional safety and security in the relationship, they can talk back to you knowing that you're not going to rip a new one, but you'll hear them, listen to them and then guide them.
00:26:24
Speaker
Yeah. Because I see parenting as guiding. yeah It's like, I'm to like kind a coach, right? I'm here to guide you. And discipline is about teaching. and borrow I'm borrowing from Tina Bryson's work and Dan Siegel's work. If you've read her their work, the whole brainchild, bunch of other stuff, drama, discipline, stuff like that. But It's like, no, it's about teaching. It's about instruction, not about fear and punishment because it actually is, while they might learn to your point, they might be a good kid or listening kid, but by the time they're an adult, everything's, they're like F the system, right? Versus non-training for that long-term of like, good humans, whatever we want to find as a father, as a family of like, what is a good human in our book? What do we mean? And, you know, going back to our earlier part of this conversation is like, you know, you know how you said like unhealth, um, fitness, on fitness, yeah yeah sickgnu wall is in fitness,
00:27:16
Speaker
it's it's holistic fitness because if you're again, going to the gym, but you're not going to your kids' plays or things, well, then you're so you're actually more towards sickness, even though your physique is great.
Holistic Fitness: Beyond Physical Health
00:27:27
Speaker
Yes. But you have no connection with your kids or your spouse or your friends. And so it's really, I'm guessing you have domains of this, many domains. And I look at kind of five myself. It's like, you know, physically, psychologically, socially, spiritually, you know, relationally is like, how do we, are we? That's so funny, the ones you just listed. Is it? But that's, that's Ben Alsharir's spire method. Yeah. It's based on his method and the biopsychosocial method and psychology. Yeah. yeah it's I loved it. So like, what was funny is like, I do so much sitting and writing, like you're a a clinical therapist. Like you, you understand this stuff way better than I do. I get that. Like, but i am i believe not i I love consuming information and I love applying it to what I understand of the world. And I like, And, but then also trying to like figure out frameworks for myself, like using what I know, like using, like, how can I make this actually work? Because yeah thinking about it matters some, but what really matters is like, will it work? Like, i don't want, I don't want to know theory. Like I want to know practice. Like I want to know actions. I want to know. And, and so I sit and I write and I go, okay, like, how could this work?
00:28:37
Speaker
Um, hang on.
00:28:41
Speaker
ah There's a roll of it in the... I don't really know, honey. It's it's right it's right in there. Yeah. It's ah yellow. It's tape.
00:28:52
Speaker
ah they need they Yeah, we need tape the gas line. um No, it's it's snow they needed string to do a straight line so they could throw. That'd be funny. I was like, it'll work. I'm like, yeah, okay. I'll let you handle that. No, no, no. So so what what I was saying though is like, i want to know what like actually
Structured Fatherhood: Effort and Priorities
00:29:11
Speaker
works. And so I sit down and I go like, I constantly journaling and writing me like, okay, these are the systems. This is how it works. And like, I get a lot of inspiration in the mornings. If you couldn't tell, my brain is very much like a ah grab lots of attention things. sure Um, but, but, uh,
00:29:27
Speaker
one of like I sat down and pretty much wrote out exactly like where I would put effort in my life. And I kind of used ah Maslow's hierarchy sort of deal, but wrote it for like achieving a well-rounded father. And so I like did a pyramid and I was like, okay, where would I effort? you know, effort first. And I wrote all these different things. I'm like, it's not really a pyramid. They all support each other. So you go into like real Maslow stuff. It's like a sailboat and the blah, blah, blah. And like, so I was, I do all these things for myself. Right. Yeah. And, and then I, I watched this Ben Alsharir video and, and it talked about the Spire method and it was literally like word for word, like everything that I had just written. But, and I was like, no way this is cool. Like, and he's done research on it and he's gone. yeah and Yeah. And then he brought in anti-fragility and I was like, my whole theory and stuff is like, I want to create anti-fragile parenting. Like that's what I'm writing up right now is like that whole belief around stress plus recovery equals growth. Like we need to see which side of the equation we're on. Are we not stressing enough? Are we not recovering enough? Like there, and, and so how do we balance those two things? Cause that relationship will be different for everyone. Um, but, but to, to, to have you bring up some of that was rad. Like I like, I, I, I, that let's literally actually, so for the hero's journey that I created yeah is I took the Spire method and I was like, okay, let's take all the different areas, spiritual, physical, intellectual, emotional, and relational. And then we'll, we'll figure out ways we can challenge ourselves in each one of these areas.
00:30:54
Speaker
And then we'll choose different challenges across these areas. And we we'll go for a month, just like pushing ourselves in that with a group of men. And then we'll sit back and we'll say, what did that do? And then we'll say, okay, try
Launching a New Program: Personal Challenges
00:31:05
Speaker
it again. And then you try his new challenges. So like, that's literally what I just launched was like, that's so cool. Figuring that whole thing out. So, um, this is, this is fun for me. Like, yeah, don't know. I, no, I think it's totally fun. Like we're, you know, this is, this is going be fun episode. I'll just say this right now because it's, it's, uh, it is kind of like grab, you know, my brain does work this way too at times and having someone else with a similar brain is like, you just start squirreling everywhere. yeah um
00:31:32
Speaker
So everyone, please enjoy this episode. I'm sure you will. And, you know, it is what it is. But, um you know, I guess to close out, somem conscious of the time, is that if you, you know, if you could leave, you know, wave a wand or something and
Unconditional Love: Foundation for Resilience
00:31:47
Speaker
help men, fathers in a way, you know, and to be more in alignment or if more fit in that sense, what's that one thing you could do today to change? if I could wave a wand and every man all of a sudden has this one thing yeah shifted, um I would want every man to feel unconditionally loved.
00:32:06
Speaker
Oh man. So I would want every single man in the world to just, to just know that they're unconditionally loved because I think that that is the foundation of what makes it possible to do anything. so If we leave parenthood with with knowing, like the one thing that we could do to succeed for our kids is they need to know that they're unconditionally loved. That means being able to express it and show it in every single way possible. There should be no question in their mind whether or not they're loved. Because if they have that as a platform,
00:32:37
Speaker
they can face all of life challenges because life's going to happen. Shit's going to go down. Like it's going to be bad. But, but if you have a ah core belief, like undying belief that you're unconditionally loved, you can forever keep coming back and taking other steps. And I think that that's where I'm, I, I, my heart breaks. And it's like, to me, the biggest argument for true undenying belief and faith. Um, because if you didn't have a mortal,
00:33:05
Speaker
unconditional love, like you need to seek the spiritual. And i'm not I'm not religious, but I really do think that that is where faith stands above you know, current psychology in a lot of ways is like, if you can believe at a core level that you are unconditionally loved, you have that as a platform to do everything else off of.
00:33:23
Speaker
So if I could wave a wand and have every man on this planet, all of a sudden just be like, oh no, I'm loved. I am absolutely loved and I'm worth it. And like all these other things, I, that's, that's the one I'd wave. Cause we could, we could do all the other work aside. Yeah.
00:33:37
Speaker
No, I, I, as soon as you said that, as soon as you said that, I was like, yep, a hundred percent hit me in my gut. and I was like, yep, I would do the same thing. Um, because that's something that I hear as probably one of the major sticking points where all the shame comes back to, because a lot of men feel like that they have to prove that they have love that to prove their
Self-Acceptance: Internal vs External Validation
00:33:56
Speaker
worth. Or if I just, if I have this physique or if I get this paycheck or if I have this job or this title, this degree, but that goal going back to earlier, you know,
00:34:06
Speaker
There's always more to do. It's an endless, vicious, infinite cycle. Like that goalpost will endlessly move because you're trying to fill this void that can't really be filled with this stuff externally. um Hence the faith, hence the belief in self. And I would, it saddens me too to know when people would truly believe that, but that's like a unit, something I see in everyone I've worked with is that deep down, there's this deep fear that I'm not, I'm worthless. I'm not really lovable. If people really knew me, if they really knew Travis, I'm not,
00:34:35
Speaker
Or if really, you know, if you came to and if people people really knew me as Pat, then they wouldn't want to be with me because they would know that I'm less than. And I'm with you, dude. I would i would
Connect with Pat Barber: Online Presence
00:34:44
Speaker
love to change that. But if people want to find you, your hero's journey work, your fitness stuff, whatever, where can they go to The father's guild.com or you can go the father's guild on social media. It's all over the place. um I only post on Instagram, but my team posts, I have a VA team that posts on all the other platforms for me, but I only spend my actual time on Instagram because I can't like, I, I do not like social media, but I'm on there.
00:35:10
Speaker
Hey, Yeah, there you are on there. No, yeah good for you, man. That's how I found you. So, you know, there is that. um Well, ah honestly, Pat, thank you so much for today. And um everyone listening and we're watching if you're on YouTube or the other platforms will be clickable for the father skill to check his stuff out. Go follow him, check him out, share his content. I'm all about generosity and working together. It's not like I have the program and Pat doesn't or vice versa. No, we're all doing something to help men and fathers. I think that's the beauty is saying that it needs a community of men and women.
00:35:41
Speaker
doing this work. So yeah thanks, Pat. Thank you, man. i appreciate it.