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Be the Dad Your Kids Call First | Discipline Without Yelling
87 Plays10 days ago
What if the goal of parenting is not to control your kids, but to become the parent they call when life gets messy?
In this episode of The Men’s Collective Podcast, I sit down with Wendy and Terry Snyder from Fresh Start Family to talk about connection-based discipline, strong fatherhood, nervous system awareness, and how dads can lead their homes with both firmness and warmth.
We talk about why so many fathers default to fixing, controlling, threatening, yelling, or shutting down when their kids have big emotions. Wendy and Terry share how “connection before correction” helps parents build trust, reduce power struggles, and raise strong, emotionally resilient kids without relying on fear-based parenting.
This conversation is especially for dads who want to stop repeating old parenting patterns, repair faster after conflict, and build a relationship where their kids feel safe, respected, and deeply loved.
In this episode, we cover:
Why dads often try to fix big emotions too quickly
What children actually need during stressful moments
Why discipline means teaching, not punishment
How to set firm boundaries without fear, shame, or control
Why repair matters more than getting parenting perfect
How to stop using threats and bribes as parenting tools
The difference between true strength and force
How nervous system awareness changes the way dads respond
Why strong kids need connection, not domination
How to become the parent your child calls when life gets hard
Learn more about Fresh Start Family: freshstartfamilyonline.com
🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube
🌐 Learn more at menscollective.co or travisgoodmanlmft.com
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Music by Scott Buckley – released under CC-BY 4.0. www.scottbuckley.com.au
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Transcript
Introduction to Parenting Goals
00:00:00
Speaker
My long-term goal is to be their emergency contact so that when life gets messy, they want to call me because they know I'm a safe place, not they fear me. To discipline is to teach, right?
00:00:13
Speaker
Discipline is not punishment. Discipline is teaching. And teaching is a slower process. Teaching is modeling. The deepest source and spaces for connection lie in the areas when your kid is having their worst moments and you offer unconditional love and grace. It's actually someone coming in and leading and leading is messy. Leading is...
00:00:36
Speaker
taking responsibility, repairing. Just take responsibility for my part in whatever happened with my kids or just like acknowledge that like I didn't do that the way I wanted to.
00:00:47
Speaker
I walk away with them truly respecting me more.
Fatherhood and Discipline Discussion
00:00:51
Speaker
Welcome back to the Men's Club to podcast. I'm your host. My name is Travis Goodman. i'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and a mind body coach and founder of the men's collective. And today, I'm joined by Wendy and Terry Snyder from fresh start family for conversation that every dad needs.
00:01:10
Speaker
We talk on this episode about discipline about repair, nervous system awareness, and how to become the kind of father your kids trust when life gets messy. So let's get into this episode.
00:01:21
Speaker
Well, Terry and Wendy, I'm so glad you guys are here again. It's been a minute since I think we've talked on a podcast episode. i believe I was on yours last, I'm thinking almost two years ago now. Yeah, it's been a few years, Travis. Time flies. Yeah, it does fly with small humans. um In your case, bigger humans.
00:01:38
Speaker
But, you know, I just got your book and it's it's I've already begun flipping through it and already I am intrigued and so stoked to begin to share this with all that my dad friends. And the first question I have around what you all your work, personal experience, and what you have in this book is that you both talk about connection before correction.
00:01:59
Speaker
um And so i'm wondering, what do most fathers misunderstand about discipline and what children actually need in a stressful moment or situation?
Engaged Fatherhood: 'Rad Dads'
00:02:08
Speaker
I love it. I do have to set the stage here and just say that I think this is my 40th interview or 38th maybe in this book press tour. And I will say that it really like one of the biggest honors to be here with you two, because I'm going to be We have about like 90% of our world is women and the moms lead the way, but you two really represent men and fathers who truly give a damn, who we would classify, we call them rad dads in our community, um who really are just willing to do the work to parent their kids in a way that...
00:02:46
Speaker
um for for many people is new. And it's just such an honor to be here with you both today. So I'm going to comment as much as I can about strategy and help and all the things, but I'm going to try to just like have you guys have the stage and just come in when you need me because this guy right here, my better half, Terry, I mean, he's been along this ride for You know, the whole which we we celebrate 25 years of marriage in a few weeks here and our daughter just turned 18.
Personal Parenting Experiences
00:03:13
Speaker
It's so fun to be able to to speak to these concepts that we write about in the book. I say we because, yes, I wrote the book, but Terry is equally a part of this.
00:03:22
Speaker
um But we get to see it from the mountaintop, so to speak now. Right. We've been practicing for 15 years. We started this work when Stella was three. I thought I was going to lose my mind. Terry was just like, what am I, so you know, what are we doing, babe? And I was like, I don't know.
00:03:36
Speaker
and now she's 18. She's headed off to college next year. She's reached her goal to become division one beach volleyball athlete playing at a school ranked number 10, you know, in the top 10 in the nation, being a division one beach volleyball player or an athlete in general is a feat that less than 1% of high school athletes attain, which I think is a testament to her strong will, which this work helped us build up instead of break. So it's just really fun to be at the season of life that we're in right now. And um now with all that said, just saying that like, literally, it is such an honor to be here with such strong, amazing, humble, rad men.
Emotional Safety and Discipline
00:04:17
Speaker
What's the question again, Travis? Tell me again. It was about discipline. It was about sure forces correction, right? Is that yeah it? Well, yeah. Well, first, like I received that compliment and encouragement as part of the Rad Dad Club with Terry. and And you're right. I think most of this is predominantly women in this space that are, which is...
00:04:39
Speaker
nothing wrong with this. Great. I'm glad that moms are involved. But yeah, we need more dads that are willing to learn and grow because without dads, everyone suffers. Right. And so when we have dads involved, everyone benefits. And so that's the whole point of this. And so the question really is, that you know, yeah connection before correction. But, you know i guess what where do sometimes men and fathers get stuck or misunderstand about discipline? And what do they actually what do kids actually need in these high stressful moments? I'll take that first, Travis. i i think um I think dads are predominantly wired to be fixers. I think we want to fix things.
00:05:18
Speaker
um and And typically, the what fixing something looks like is the shortest distance between two points. It is quick.
00:05:29
Speaker
It is seamless. And then you combine that with ah big emotions are usually something to be avoided or or felt unsafe, or it feels like it's a part of an emergency instead of it just being a part of growth.
00:05:49
Speaker
and that you can remain connected even in times of um imperfection or big emotions or when things feel unsettled.
00:06:00
Speaker
So I think where dads sometimes miss this opportunity for connection over time and in the small moments too is
Unconditional Love and Connection
00:06:12
Speaker
they want to either you know snuff things out have a plan quickly and just say, OK, that's it. I think there's just this like um, skip over the opportunity to have that connection over time by just trying to fix things really quickly.
00:06:32
Speaker
And, you know, i I will say everybody in this world is wired differently. I try not to stereotype anybody, but guys in general seem to fit into that space. It seems like,
00:06:47
Speaker
yeah Yeah. I would add to that, like when you're talking about connection before correction, and then also you bring in the concept of discipline, which we do specifically teach the how to in section four of the book around grace based discipline is I think. Yeah.
00:07:04
Speaker
in In general, parents often, when you talk about connection, it's like you think about these moments of like, oh I'm going to spend special time with my kid. You know, I got three kids. I'm going to take each one for a date each week. i'm going to make sure i look them in their eyes. And we teach, ah you know, strategies to like really build those connections and like with gems. genuine encounter moments and like all these like great moments but actually in reality ah what I have found I think what we have found is that the deepest source and spaces for connection lie in the areas when your kid is having their worst moments and you offer unconditional love and grace and help them feel like they belong and that they are not aliens we often say like you a you're not in trouble. B, there's nothing wrong with you.
00:07:54
Speaker
Make sense why you're thinking this, doing this. And we bring in like anti-hypocrisy work, right? So like in this book, we really teach you how to like really become humble enough to say, okay, like I realize that sometimes I expect my kids to do something, but I'm not perfectly modeling yet. And so when you combine all of that and meet your kids in those like really tricky moments, right?
00:08:19
Speaker
that they're emotionally dysregulated, they've made a big mistake, they are not freaking keeping their hands to themselves after you told them 17 times to not smack their sister. Like, those are actually the moments that that create the most connection where the safety gets, like, established, where kids are like, no, I can really trust this person and I'm going to follow their lead, not because I'm scared of them, but because, like, I really...
00:08:48
Speaker
like legit trust and respect this person because of who they are and how they treat me, if that makes sense. That's what I think of when I think of connection and and discipline as of today.
00:09:00
Speaker
yeah well and the thing both of you said terry uh first and foremost is this dads want that you know what's the shortest distance to find a solution and a fix and i will say first and foremost and funny you know i'm currently in the middle of a cohort with a eight-week cohort taking guys you men and fathers through nervous system awareness and teaching skills often ask this question is like well you know ah how do i How do I stop having these directions like today, like right now? like They want that quick fix even for themselves now to have the solution um to solve it, to fix them themselves.
00:09:35
Speaker
And what i what I tend to tell them, which it's a slower process first, but I say, hey, you're not a problem to be fixed, and nor are your kids. you You are one to be witnessed and understood.
00:09:48
Speaker
And I think it's a shift for a lot of men and nothing wrong. Absolutely. Let's figure it out. Let's solve. But in those moments, this is not about fixing or a solution. It's about witness.
00:09:58
Speaker
It's about presence. And I think I see that a lot and in reading and, you know, this reading through your work. I think a lot of men get stuck in that because that's a lot of how we've been taught in the culture around us and what to do. And even some of just the the kind of the male coding of like, oh, I want to, we're problem solvers naturally, um which is a good thing when harnessed effectively.
Understanding Emotional Safety
00:10:17
Speaker
To your point, Wendy, is that this connection piece in these moments, right, when the kids are in the heightened moments of distress or meltdowns or doing the thing is, you're right, that's where they need to be witnessed and be present and have our presence with them, that kind of calm in the eye of the storm, which is really hard to do, especially, and this is my next question, especially when, if I'm the dad inside and if inside,
00:10:43
Speaker
My nervous system is shot. My nervous system's in a fight state, a flight state, a shut down, overwhelmed state. So I'm wondering from your guys' experience, what are some things you've tended to see or hear working with men and fathers around this when they're when their nervous system is kind of like heightened?
00:11:04
Speaker
Yeah. And I, and I'm going to tee this up and then I want to hear what you have to say about this, just with like some basic kind of nervous system stuff that the way we see it, right. I think as educators, therapists, coaches, whatever, we all kind of have our own angle on this. But to me, um the nervous system is something to just be honored and and loved on and thanked, right? Like it is, it's just, it's conditioned our first decade, two of life, definitely the most, the first decade,
00:11:32
Speaker
And it just ends up replicating as we get older what feels safe and what feels safe that literally like kept the body functioning, kept it alive, kept it protected from danger.
00:11:45
Speaker
um it just keeps doing that because it's safe, right? So it's like the idea of it the nervous system will always choose the um comfortable hell over the uncomfortable heaven. So when something is new, it's the nervous system is just going to resist it. It's going to reject it.
Compassionate Discipline
00:12:06
Speaker
Right. So I think ah just a lot of people, a lot of parents, men, women, both in my, in our community, they grew up in,
00:12:15
Speaker
homes and systems and I really have been using the word systems quite often now because what we teach is a powerful parenting system and it is the antidote and the it is really the opposite of an authoritarian or an autocratic system and in those type of systems it it is just conflict and if you make a mistake there is legit danger like there's legit danger right so like even in the most like more mild of autocratic or authoritarian homes, which is like how we were pretty much all raised. Again, there's there's a spectrum, but like pretty much everyone, if you grew up in the you know eighty s ninety s early 2000s, like if you were a teenager, you got caught sneaking out of duh, you got grounded like duh, like you're going to get punished and put in timeout. And you probably always had the parent that was like, I'm so disappointed in you. What's wrong with you? you know, in my family, it was shame on you. and You know, Terry had, you know, it was accidental, but he had a a shoe thrown at his head and might have gotten some stitches on his forehead. Like, you know, there was just autocratic elements. But point being, was that a steel toe boot shoe? I mean, it's definitely not a heel, right? That wasn't a Converse. No, it was a sneaky slipper that had a hard piece of plastic in the toe. yeah Sneaky slipper. want to get some sneaky slippers. Switchblade slipper. yeah yeah It's like Peaky Blinders and the in the sandal. Go ahead. Sorry. well We need to watch that. Might be our next series. um But point being is conflict was gnarly. If there was good if if there was conflict, if the mistakes were dangerous, it meant you were bad. It meant you were going to get lectured, punished, you know humiliated, intimidated, um or just even the more mild homes.
00:14:01
Speaker
There was going to be this level of disappointment. And so you just, I think so many people learn to avoid conflict and to hide mistakes. Yeah. And to feel shameful about mistakes when really the way we teach it is mistakes are simply opportunities to learn, just like a baby learning to walk or little neighbor, Leo, he's learning to walk. He's like a year, 14 months. He falls down all the time. His parents don't say to him, dude, what the at what is wrong with you?
00:14:25
Speaker
They say, it's OK. It's going to take you a while. Like, are you OK? Let me hold your hands. Let me show you. let me put some different shoes on your feet. And so I just feel like at this point in my career, it's never been more clear the damage that has been done of setting mistakes up as dangerous and then also conflict as dangerous. And the thing that's like at the forefront of my mind right now. um And it's just gnarly. Like I picked up, I pick up these random documentaries that I watched, but the other night I watched um or started to watch, we haven't finished it yet, but the high Ohio State documentary, um and don't know if you heard about that, like decades of the highest level division one athletes at Ohio State. Like that school was legit sports, like the most strongest men that you could imagine, like dominating in their sports, wrestling, hockey, gymnastics, swimming.
00:15:20
Speaker
They all were sexually abused by the school doctor. He was a Harvard doctor who was the team, like the all the team doctors for decades, Travis. And they all they might have joked a little bit with each other, like, what the heck? But like nobody, nobody addressed the conflict. And these are thousands of strong men who not when I watch that, I'm like, dang, I they were conditioned to avoid conflict, to think that somehow it's their fault.
00:15:49
Speaker
And just to hear the stories of those men was like really moving because I just think it's a cultural issue. And when you raise kids in a different type of setting where mistakes are just opportunities to learn and you have compassionate discipline present, the nervous systems get paved and it get trained in a much different way. And then all of a sudden conflict is no longer something that the knee jerk is to avoid, hide,
00:16:16
Speaker
um like, just don't like fix it fast as Terry saying. And we see that in our children, right? So 15 years of doing this work, we see that in our children, we see the results of showing them, look, conflict is inevitable.
00:16:31
Speaker
We teach siblings. It's not you're not trying to make your kids not fight. You're trying to teach them how to fight fairly. Right. So like we see them, they're addressing issues when in their top level athletics, like with their head coaches calling meetings to like present findings and data. They are addressing people who are texting their girlfriend with respect, saying, bro, with all due respect.
00:16:55
Speaker
Hey, she's my girl. You know, like just little bit. You see the pattern of like handling respect or conflict respectfully with a nervous system that's like, we can work through this. And when they make a mistake, they don't hide it.
00:17:09
Speaker
They are able to admit and be like, okay, I made a mistake. They often are very quick to make amends, apologize, ask for grace, whatever it may be. um And so that's that's kind of my interpretation of the nervous system spin. What would you say, Terry?
Parenting Challenges Across Genders
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think men and women probably have some similarities and then there's some like probably unique things that men and women carry around. I think men seem to have, um you know, I think everybody's just going through this life.
00:17:42
Speaker
you know, perfectly imperfect. But then there's the there's the facade that I think most people would love to hold up to the general public and those around them. um I think women have their set of things that might be top of their list um that might have a certain thing attached to their image or like how they keep their house or how their kids are behaving when they're at the grocery store or whatever. And I think men have this.
00:18:08
Speaker
they They don't want to feel out of control. And I think beneath the surface, we all are a little bit out of control. There are so many things that are out of our control in this world.
00:18:18
Speaker
Oh, for sure. um But yet men and dads, especially, i think, just want to have this feeling of control. and that's not wrong. I think everybody would love to feel like.
00:18:30
Speaker
i've got I've got it figured out. um I know what my day is going to look like. My kids are going to just kind of like fall into line and like all these things. But then, you know, the reality is, is like to to operate like that is um you're either going to like,
00:18:46
Speaker
have that nervous system like just kind of pushed down because the reality is not going to allow for that to happen. So you're either going to suppress it and it's just going to live beneath the surface or you can shift your paradigm to say, OK, what would it look like to be a role model um in this family dynamic where I do know a lot? I have a lot to bring to the table, but I'm also perfectly imperfect and I can be messy in front of my kids.
Vulnerability in Parenting
00:19:13
Speaker
And my long-term goal is to be their emergency contact so that when life gets messy, they want to call me because they know I'm a safe place, not they fear me because I've just constantly put up this facade that like I have everything under control. And then when they experience life getting out of control or a nervous system getting out of whack, they don't relate to me. They wouldn't relate to me because I never, ever showed any kind of my nervous system on the outside. So I think there's this, you know, and some of it is, I think some of that society, I think some of it's just generations of just, you know, and some of it, I mean, it makes sense. Like I said, of course you would want life to look that way, yeah but you're not serving those around you by, um, by pushing it down and, and just acting like somehow you're the first person on earth. It's got it all figured out.
00:20:11
Speaker
yeah And I will say that I love the data of like where we are right now, because again, you you you actually have attained it. Right. So he's got the 18 year old who he is the speed dial. Right. Like he i mean, it is very fast. Like she accidentally hit a car in like school parking lot, you know, eight months ago and we were it was speed dial. what Hey, you know, and it's just feels so good, man. Like because most of us didn't have that.
00:20:36
Speaker
You know, we we had a study done in La Jolla here in San Diego years ago. It was like 20 years ago now. But they asked like a thousand and kids from Torrey Pines High School. Hey, who would you love to come to if you have a big problem? And and almost all of them said, I'd love to go to my parents. And then they asked them, who do you actually go to when you have a big problem? Almost all of them said anybody but my parents. yeah Because they will either lecture, punish me, stay up all night worrying or just freak out. So like I don't tell them. much you know and so and i think this all goes back to your your question that is related to vulnerability and how that was modeled in the home um so i mean yeah yeah if i need to you know without i need to be able to reveal what it looks like to be a human being who's got either fight or flight tendencies or a nervous system that one day might
00:21:29
Speaker
feel a little bit more raw than another day and then also expose like what I'm what I'm doing to make myself feel better. I mean, just this morning I was feeling out of sorts and I just was like, OK, openly meditate and the family all sees that. And then I'm like, ah, there's got there's something else. I'm just like running shoes on. I'm up the hill. And um but I also need to be able to expose why I'm doing those things, too, so that like my kids see like oh well when you're feeling out of whack there are things that dad has shown that he does in his life and it's not all and then everybody doesn't have it all under control all the time yeah part of that too is the making amends right so like we have these things with the dysregulated nervous system sometimes that we do with our kids and then like the modern father mother like that is like so strong and humility and vulnerability like comes to their kid and they're like
00:22:26
Speaker
shoot, that didn't go as planned. Or like, I realized after you said that, yeah, I w I want to do that differently. Let me clean that up. Like you don't deserve to be talked to like that. Like that that's me, right? Like I can see how I was seeing that from a lens that's not accurate. Um, so let's work through this. Let's do part two of this conversation, right? Like that is part of healing the nervous system too. oh totally and showing the kids that like, again, conflict and mistakes, um,
00:22:53
Speaker
Not a problem. yeah Not a problem. You know, the whole nervous system piece is that we all you know, we all have this thing and how we're how we're wired and how different personalities are wiring and all
Strength in Connection
00:23:02
Speaker
that stuff. and You know, it's a different podcast. But um I think it's important that we pay attention to what's happening because it's your point. These college athletes like how we see what's strong, what's not strong and.
00:23:12
Speaker
that really i think strength surpasses physicality right that's one version of strength and there's ah different types of strength and and then tying this piece in about fear lot of i think there's a lot of fear here of and what i hear a lot of my work with groups and then seeing this on the interweb still is that there's a lot of fear around men specifically with parenting about being calm or emotionally connected they think it's passivity that the kids are going to be that they're going to grow up and not be tough, strong to face tough life, which i still hear that constantly.
00:23:45
Speaker
And I think it's really going to the control piece. I think a lot of men want to try to control to help their kids later. So i think there's like a good intention of like, well, i want them to be tough, you know, meaning.
00:23:57
Speaker
the world's hard and and dangerous and threatening. So I'm going I'm going to toughen you up now. And I see the, the intent behind it. I hear the need, the control of protection, but as we know, I think it doesn't really lead that way. And the data shows in research that actually flips that on its head. And so I'm wondering what's a real life example for you, Terry, that, you know, and when Wendy too, but what does strong and strong strength grounded leadership actually look like as a dad in these moments?
00:24:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think, um I mean, strength is is, I think it starts, um you know, and from a fathering standpoint with our own kids, it started by honoring who they were born to be.
00:24:36
Speaker
um you know, seeing my daughter as ah as a three-year-old with these very, like, these traits that I think a lot of people, if you wrote them down and you said, okay, that's describing an adult woman, you'd be like, wow.
00:24:53
Speaker
what a, what a person, what a, what a force. That's awesome. Then you're like, no, I'm describing a three-year-old and you'd be like, oh, wow, that feels very hard and inconvenient and all these things, you know? So I think, um, I, I think honoring their strengths, um, um,
00:25:12
Speaker
finding a way to, you know, nurture those while also teaching mutual respect through that. It's not my way or the highway. It's it's us together. It's us in partnership.
00:25:25
Speaker
um I think this said this idea of setting them out into the world, you know, the the world is a can be a really gnarly place. But I think having somebody that is resilient, knows and loves themselves really well and has the skills to say a range of things from, hey, I know when to put honey on things and like really be able to like network and have people love and respect me. But then I also know how to say no.
00:25:56
Speaker
oh and i know And I know when no means no. yeah I'd say both of our kids, we we we wanted them to have that whole spectrum, not just the middle, not just one side, not the other.
00:26:08
Speaker
So I think raising these kids to be strong, it's like, there are times when best just have...
00:26:17
Speaker
it's best just to have friends that surround you. And that comes with a lot of love. And then there are times when it's like, no, that's not happening.
00:26:29
Speaker
Yeah. um And or that's not okay. Let me show you the data. So and and having them to be able to to go out in the world and be able to say that now we we love this moment in time because, you know, you go back in a decade, decade and a half.
00:26:47
Speaker
While we believed in it, it all still was theory. How's this all going to work out? yeah Is it going to work? Is it going to work? And I could tell you with a 15 year old and 18 year old, I have two of the strongest, but also most vulnerable um kids that there that there are. I mean, they are physically strong, mentally strong, but also very vulnerable.
00:27:10
Speaker
you know, ah very emotionally literate, open, they make mistakes, they also have triumphs and all that's just part of like the, the human experience.
Critique of Authoritarian Parenting
00:27:22
Speaker
So I would say honoring that strength in them from the beginning and understanding that, that strength isn't one dimensional, it's multi-dimensional and fostering all of that. because they're going to need all those tools.
00:27:36
Speaker
Like, you know, us as parents, we need multiple tools in our tool belt. Kids for the world, they need, there's a different tool for for a lot of different things. Yeah. And I would add, Travis, that um and the reason why I talk about, the reason why I refer to my body work now as powerful parenting is because I believe that when you master these kind of these type of strategies, you become, you harness true power as a human to influence others with dignity and respect. And that what that is how a democratic, firm and kind system works. There is power in the voices. People work together. There is different viewpoints and empathy and and compassion that is prioritized, which is very different than the way authoritarian or autocratic systems exist. But the way you get power in those systems is you are bigger, you have more money, you have more muscles, and you can F with the person and under you easier because you you are a power over structure. Right? So it's just, it is in it is, to me, very air quotes easy
00:28:40
Speaker
to dominate a child into submission under that. Like you don't need much skills. Like that's what I inherited. i was like, dude, three-year-old, she's like 20 pounds. I can lock her in her room. I can spank her. I can like, this is what everybody and their uncle told us to do when she was three years old. And we were like, what is happening? Everyone, what should we do? What should we do? What should we do from the neighbor? That was like the, this,
00:29:04
Speaker
so air quotes Christian neighbor who told us, go here, here's the link for the Amazon book you just order. It's a Christian book that'll teach you how to get a go in your backyard and get a switch or you can get a plastic rod. And every time she misbehaves, you just whack her just a little bit enough where it stinks. And you do that over and over and over again for years.
00:29:23
Speaker
And I'll never forget watching his two girls. They would come over, they would hang out, they'd go in the hot tub. One time she, when the little 12 year old, she had a sense sunburn on her nose And I was like, oh, what happened to your mom? I was like, it's peeling. And she I remembered that you could she looked down. She couldn't look me in the eyes. And the shame this child had over the sunscreen that I was like, holy smokes. And that was like right about the time when we were like, what what ah what are we going to accept here as far as opinions? And then it was like very soon after that, I got invited to this free class. It's Taylor's Preschool that I write about in the beginning of the book. But point being is...
00:29:58
Speaker
True power as a human being, you learn how to influence others and get things accomplished in the world and have a thriving functioning team, so to speak, whether that's in your family or your your work or whatever. But when you learn how to do that with true power versus force, I mean, there to me, there's no like there's no better strength. And anybody can learn that. And then then you can go build up your kids physically, right? Like, yeah, yeah i so I mean, i think every child should have ah martial arts to some degree. I think athletics is so awesome for kids and some kids are gonna be competitive. Some kids are just gonna be like,
00:30:39
Speaker
They just like to do more creative outlets and be in nature. But building up physical strength is amazing. um But man, when it comes to forcing kids, forcing human beings into submission, and you see that on all different levels and in authoritarian or autocratic systems, to me, it's weak.
00:30:56
Speaker
Violence is weak. Aggression is weak. Like true power is just badass, in my opinion. Yeah. ah I think of the man, you know, I think of the the recent documentary, The Manosphere that came out by Louis Thoreau, if you haven't seen it. I haven't seen it yet.
00:31:14
Speaker
You know, it's it's all fear, right? Because all all that, all authoritarian, all that, it's just, it's fear inducing. And so you're gonna, kids will respond, people, humans respond, right? They do, they, you know, fear-based and some kids push back, some kids submit, some kids...
00:31:29
Speaker
fill in the blank pay on personality. But the long-term data and study shows higher levels of aggression, anger, substance abuse, sexual abuse, the list goes on. um yeah And so, yeah, that fear is is not, you know you know, to love others well is, you know, how do I will the good of the other? Meaning, how do I teach a skill? And to your point earlier, is it is easy to use fear.
00:31:53
Speaker
um yes there's no so There's no skill teaching involved. There's no, um I always love Tina Bryson and Dan Siegel's quote, like to discipline is to teach, right? Discipline is not punishment. Discipline teaching and teaching is a slower process. Teaching is modeling to to Terry's point, hey, that even this morning,
00:32:10
Speaker
I tried meditating and breath work in the house and, then yeah okay, I need a different skill. And maybe I told my kids, hey, I'm feeling something. So I'm also explaining what I'm doing, not just disappearing. And now I'm going for a run. I'm moving. So even showing the modeling is, hey, it's it's all of that encompass, which is vulnerable, which is also a sign of strength. I feel strong enough in my identity to say, i don't have it figured out. I'm having a hard time.
00:32:32
Speaker
Great, I'm gonna go take care of myself. That's huge. And probably why your you know your kids have you on speed dial, I would say. um And I even think of my, my you know the most powerful moments I've had with my dad is when he's, I think of a lot of pair work we've done over the years. We have a great relationship um now, amazing. And a lot of it stemmed from his risking and strength and courage in being vulnerable and naming and taking responsibility for his behavior.
00:33:00
Speaker
Beautiful Travis. I mean, which is huge. I mean, and that's really what we, are you know, and i've I've sat with thousands of people at time at this point in my and and lost count.
Desire for Change in Parenting Approaches
00:33:11
Speaker
They all kind of want that. If a mom or a dad would just say, just sit them down and just do, i mean, that is what people are looking for. is And that's all connection. That's relationship. That's safety. That's strength. That's all those things.
00:33:26
Speaker
um And I think deep down, that's what men want and fathers want, but often they don't know. They don't know what's the wrong because of, hey, this was my experience. This was my experience.
00:33:37
Speaker
blueprint I call it, this is my blueprint. And so part of me knows it wasn't great, but i don't know what to So I'm just going to do it, especially if I'm stressed out, tired, all these things, I'm going to revert to things that I just, that are automatic for me. Yeah.
00:33:51
Speaker
And the world Travis will add in that that is smart. Totally.
00:34:12
Speaker
Most of the world is still practicing autocratic parenting. So that's the messages you're going to get from your neighbors, your friends. So it becomes like reinforcing. Right. And so it just takes so much courage to break that mold and be the generational cycle breaker in your family lineage. And it's so beautiful.
00:34:29
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I agree. And did and I think you're hearing more and more of of the different, you know, kind of what you guys are doing and, you know, what Tina Bryson and Dan Siwa came up with, like Whole Brain Child, No Drama Discipline, all these other really good books that are really trying to shift the system. But that takes, and I love that you said system because we work in different differing systems and systems takes time, long time at times to make, to change, to to course correct. And I think,
00:34:57
Speaker
you know sitting with a lot of men anecdotally I do hear a lot of men saying hey I do want to do things different I don't want to do what what was done to me or how I was raised there is kind of like this deep longing okay I want I want something different and yet there's sometimes this okay now what the struggle and so I'm wondering with that is you know and Even your own experience, Terry and Wendy, is like, okay, there's this longing to shift from an old pattern, a authoritarian, autocrat, like this kind of fear-based, punishment-based, you know, tough love, be tough to be ready for the world.
00:35:36
Speaker
But what do you think really helps fathers break that old pattern without like over course correcting? Because then if it goes, I think, to permissiveness, I've seen that way too. It's like, okay, don't do it. Don't stand and, you know, don't do anything.
00:35:49
Speaker
I've seen it go that way. They over course correct to the opposite end. Yeah, it happens lot. Like, the pendulum swings and it's just part of, for a lot of people's journeys because you're just like frozen. You're like, yeah. Like, I don't want to do this. i don't want to hit. I don't want to yell. I don't want to.
00:36:03
Speaker
So I, you know, I mean, to me, it's um it's setting ah an intention that you're going to stand behind day in and day out over the course of years and years and years. And that intention can be as simple as just saying, ah I want to remain connected to my kids and my family ah and everything um surrounding that. There's going things that, you know, feel straightforward to live in, live that out. And then they're going to be things that are more complicated. But I think, you know,
00:36:39
Speaker
valuing the relationship over time and knowing it's not a, it's not all going to be resolved in one hour or anything. And then also not fearing down the road, trusting that if you remain connected and you value that relationship above everything else, above your convenience, above your ego, above your, the way people perceive you as a dad or um a parent, um, then you kind of, you've got your priorities kind of in a place where I don't think you can, you're not as set up to go, go wrong there because, um,
00:37:23
Speaker
you're You're just going to trust the process that that that's what you you and that's love. I mean, i think about it. I mean, that and that's I think that's what we all want from our friends, too. It's like imagine you and i um if you just came at me and I came at you very surface level.
00:37:41
Speaker
very transactional, very like, OK, Travis, you're going to get your needs met out of our our talk and I'm going to get my and we never, ever explored anything about vulnerability or about the messes of life. I mean, you check in on me um and I know you're not looking for the like, yep,
00:38:01
Speaker
I'm good. Everything's under control. Where's that? Where's that podcast link at? You know, it's like, I think you just got to let go and realize that everybody around you, your friends, your, your, your spouse, your kids, they just want the real you. They just want the real, real.
00:38:18
Speaker
You just, you just have to lean into saying like, that's what true relationships look like. And that's the relationship you should crave with your kids is something very deep. that also is' going to be messy at times and um and might not look like the relationship you had with your parents. And don't worry about defending the way your parents raised you or anything. It is what it is. You have a new chance.
00:38:43
Speaker
You're here. If you value, you want a deep relationship with your kid, just set that intention and live it out for yeah the whole time. Yeah, I love that. And I will add some tactical things there too is um I think it's so important to do the shame reduction work. And that's like I can imagine in your circles, you're helping men do that. Like we we really... do a lot of work here Fresh Your Family and our deeper healing weekend courses around healing through feeling. And the shame i find is what keeps people stuck in the patterns. And so my my answer to that was going to be like stack the successes. Once you start to try something new,
00:39:24
Speaker
And you're like, oh, dang, that actually worked. I like didn't punish them. And instead, like I chose to do what we teach you in section four of the book. And man, they received that really well. And like, oh, wow. I mean, we just have so many stories in this book to give you actual examples of like, dang, that worked. Life skill attained. Right. But like yeah you start to stack those success stories. But here's the catch. Yeah.
00:39:49
Speaker
You're going to F it up so many times. It's going to be so
Continuous Improvement and Community Support
00:39:53
Speaker
messy. Like you are going to swear that you're not going to yell if you happen to have that in your lineage. And then but it's going to be 8 a.m. like the second week of summer and you're going to lose your mind and you're going to scream so loud you make your kids cry. you cannot beat yourself up.
00:40:07
Speaker
Like you have to learn to show yourself compassion. You have to be doing the work of eliminating the inner critic, tampering it at least. And just knowing that this is what it looks like to be a cycle breaker, right? Or like, you know, everyone has different stuff, knee jerk reactions. Some people are going to be more like they avoid conflict, right? So maybe it's not the puff up. But for a lot of the men in our in our community, it is the puff up. It is the intimidation. It the yelling. It is the fixing fast. um And you just got to have the like, stupid Britney Spears song in your mind, like, whoops, I did it again. and it's not to discount or defend it. It's just to be like, this makes sense. This is how nervous systems work. yeah They're just but so, okay, what did I learn from this mistake? How am I going to do it differently tomorrow? How am I going to take
00:40:59
Speaker
um responsibility for this with my kid How am I going to make amends? And so that over time, like we, for our students who really implement what we teach in this book, they have way more failures, right? In the first year, two, three years, five years, honestly. And then once you start to realize, oh, there is just as much learning and your kids are actually learning just as much through the times you don't get it right.
00:41:26
Speaker
I would maybe even argue more than when you are like perfectly nailing it as a parent, because no one that didn't have this stuff growing up is going to walk in, read this book and be like, dude, I'm killing it and applying this. Like you're going to need support. You're going to need to be in groups like Travis's or mine and just be with a community. That's like, oh, you you had a tough day too.
00:41:48
Speaker
Cool. What do we learn from it? are we going to try differently tomorrow? Every day is a fresh start. Yeah. Yeah. And i' layering one more thing onto that is like every time that I've gotten it wrong and I've decided to go and either just take responsibility for my part in whatever happened with my kids or just like acknowledge that like I didn't do that the way I wanted to. I walk away with them truly respecting me more um than they did the day before.
00:42:22
Speaker
So, you know, think about that in your own life, you like remove the like parent child aspect to it. Like, do you respect people more in your world that take responsibility for things and and are upfront with it or people that just bulldoze their way through life and just seem like oblivious to it and defend just and defend just justify and just kind of like do it under the guise of strength and and perfection and i would say
00:42:52
Speaker
an evolved human being will make the right choice there. That was a great, that was a great frame. An evolved human being would say. I'm not saying let's take a nationwide vote right now. No, but evolved human. Yes. Yeah.
00:43:07
Speaker
But, so good but, great but yes, I think, I think um when you're looking to teach respect and get respect and give respect, it's It's humility. Don't doze your way through life, especially not with the ones you love. No. They want them to come visit you when they're growing up. Well, again, and that's the and that's the long-term goal. It's like, okay, what do I help my children think or feel about me as a dad or you as a parent years later yeah when they're in their 20s and 30s and forty s Because that's what you're building is that relationship. It's not now. It's then. It's it's later.
00:43:40
Speaker
And I hear this so much with men in my um and women too. i you know my My therapeutic practice is both, but I have a passion to focus on men and fathers. But um over the years of doing this, I've seen i've seen all.
00:43:51
Speaker
um But I hear that over and over and over and over and over again. It's not bulldozing. It's not... demanding, it's it's actually someone coming in and leading. And leading is messy. Leading is taking responsibility, repairing. and You talk a lot about that in your book too, is which I think is so important, is the repair work is far more important than the actual mishap or the rupture.
00:44:15
Speaker
um yeah Now, we need to take responsibility for the rupture and work at actively growing. That's important. right That's the whole piece. It's not just saying, hey, sorry, you know but not actually actively changing, but it's messy.
00:44:27
Speaker
And that messiness shows the humanity that where no one's perfect, then that's okay. You're still loved. You still have value and enough and worth, not a failure, not not enough, because a lot of men think they're, I'm a failure. I'm not enough. They get stuck in that trap.
00:44:40
Speaker
which fuels the shame. You mentioned shame. And so shifting out of that is through modeling to our kids the very thing that we need often that we maybe didn't receive from our parents. And I'm curious, what's one thing right now, a dad who's feeling maybe stressed or reactive or exhausted, overwhelmed, wait what's one place that they can start this
Balancing Firmness and Vulnerability in Parenting
00:45:00
Speaker
week? Like practically speaking, like start here. What, you know, I know that probably the book, but I mean, outside the book. Yeah, the book for sure. I'm just going to say something super silly and easy. Just start using the word and because here's what I want fathers to take away right now. You get to be all this like cool, vulnerable, humility, ahcute humble stuff and you get to be firm AF. with your kids. Like sure we are very firm in our boundaries. Some of my yeah children, especially Stella, my strong-willed kid, some of her favorite coaches and teachers in life have been the firmest with boundaries. Some of my favorite bosses, my favorite boss who I worked under for eight years when I was in corporate was so warm and loving and caring and all the things we're talking about. And he was so high. but He had such high expectations. He was intense. Sure. Sure. So and so you get to be both of these things with your kids. So don't worry. You don't have to let go of the strong boundaries, please. For the love of God, please make sure your kids still wear a helmet when they skateboard and you don't need to be soft and gushy about that. Right. Like and make sure you keep healthy tech boundaries going like all the things and take responsibility and be humble. So we like to use the word and in our language as parents. Mm hmm.
00:46:16
Speaker
when we're communicating with kids, which we talk about in section two of the book, because and versus but yeah yeah is like a really great switch, which just will have your kids come closer to you a little bit when you're like, I love you and like the answer is no, we're not, you know, we're not whatever. um But use it for yourself, too.
00:46:34
Speaker
Like yeah I get to I don't have to let go of being like really firm with boundaries. i believe kids, you know, a lot of men listening, all men listening probably are like, I believe kids need firm limits. Yes, they do. Nobody is negating that. So the word and as part of your like daily language is what I would say.
Intrinsic Motivation Over Threats
00:46:51
Speaker
Yeah, I, you know, I'll add on to that to some language things um that we learned early on that sometimes feels a little like you have to catch yourself on is like he's like if then statements, um if you do this or if you don't do this, then I'm going to. And basically what that is a window into is acknowledging how much.
00:47:16
Speaker
you're using threats and bribes to to parent. And i think that was an exhausting like road and andm I'm glad that we got off that road.
00:47:29
Speaker
um i think it's never too late to get off that road, but I i would really encourage um dads to look at like, how much are you using threats and bribes to um motivate your kids instead of saying, wouldn't I love just to teach them to motivate themselves or wouldn't I love to just get messy and teach them the actual related life skill to this instead of just them fearing the outcome or fearing me?
00:47:55
Speaker
And that's the reason why they do or don't do this thing. um So I would just say to clean that up a little bit or just to acknowledge like where that's showing up in your life. And that, that takes a while. I mean, it's, it's, it's an abstract concept at first. I mean, especially if you have grade school kids, cause they're coming home with like, I got another sticker on the sticker chart or my teacher, like teachers and relatives feed into this whole thing. So you're going to feel, you're going to feel like there's, it's not just you flipping the switch. Like you have to like,
00:48:28
Speaker
It's happening all around them. But I would just say, like, just look at that, because the moment you're able to walk away from um threats and and bribes, yeah um you're going to favor you're going to be in a much different relationship space. And we do teach you the alter the antidote to threats. It's called sequencing. And we do teach that in the book, like the how to of the simple replacement. And it's really it's really not that hard. You just have to catch yourself in the languaging and then start doing sequencing instead.
00:48:58
Speaker
And it doesn't mean you can't still go celebrate something when your kids do some, you know, that some milestone like, oh, my gosh, you know, end of the semester. had a great time. Let's go celebrate. But yeah the celebration shouldn't be the the bribe in order for them to get the grade the grade or like whatever it is. it's It's just a reframing about some of its language. Some of it's just the way you look at it. And they'll look at it differently, too. They'll be a lot more intrinsically motivated than externally motivated.
00:49:29
Speaker
Yeah, what I'm hearing too, i mean, it's it's subtle it's subtle things that are simple in concept, but that's that that's the difficult work of shifting thinking and saying and, or you talk in your book, encouragement versus praise, right? Or relation, you know, rules without relationship, right? Versus rules with relationship. Again, firm boundaries, but with connection equal, right? So I guess we're all the book, but this is important that subtle changes, but that are powerful, especially compounded over time, because we're talking about here, not one in not one event, one interaction, but thousands.
00:50:04
Speaker
And you're right to your point, Tere. I think a big thing too is you're also at times competing with some of the culture of promoting that good boy, good girl, bad boy, bad girl. mentality even if it's still fear-based and shame-based it's usually more subtle sometimes with the you know the sticker things and not that that's inherently evil but we want to what happens is that we learn up this is how i'm good and praise versus if i'm bad and punished yeah and then i think that if anything that increases shame-based identity is i'm only good if i'm only the only of value if
00:50:38
Speaker
Right. And I'm looking at people say, well, I'm lovable if or i have value if I'm enough if versus I'm starting from a place of having value worth being enough, which is not fear based.
00:50:50
Speaker
It's really love centered, right? Love central, love centric and value centric. And then I'm able to go in that. But that that is that's constant daily interactions that we have. And when we do shift over, maybe accidentally use the wrong verbiage, I'll we shift back. so Oh, let me try again.
00:51:05
Speaker
Yeah. and The beautiful thing I know with kids, kids are. they will adapt. They do adapt. 100%. They're quite adaptable and resilient. And it's ah our job to model that.
Real-Life Parenting Success Stories
00:51:17
Speaker
um And so final question, like if people want to get the book, where do you want to get the book? By the way, this all the book. Where do they want to get it? If they want to find your book. Yes.
00:51:28
Speaker
Oh, come find the book. It is officially our most accessible way to learn with us. And I will tell you that all these concepts and strategies that we're talking about today are in there, but there's so many stories, so many stories. And in my community, I've i've just developed into the teacher that loves to tell through stories. And it is all of our personal stories that And it really will show you like, oh, okay, this is what it looks like in real life to get it really not the way I teach. And this is what it looks like to really nail it. And these are the the personal example of the long-term success of like, here was the mistake the kid made. Here was the discipline. Here's, you know, all the stuff. The stories I think are just really helpful. um Anywhere books are sold, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, bookshop.org. If you want to so support your local store, that's an organization that will purchase through your local bookstore. And then once you do purchase, come over to freshshirtfamilyonline.com forward slash book. And we want to you just report your order number to us and and where you got it. And we'd love to give you some bonuses that will... just get you a little bit deeper into implementation mode and and give you some more support elements. And then i will say also, Travis, come find me on Fresh Start Wendy is my Instagram. And then if anyone wants to really just dive right into our interactive classroom, I do have a really great class on strong-willed kids that I teach quite often. And they can find that at freshstartfamilyonline.com forward slash secrets. It's three secrets to thriving with strong-willed kids.
00:52:57
Speaker
and Love that. Fresh Start Your Family. that This book has been such a such a gift and such a a milestone because it is so many hours and so many years and so much research and so many things that Wendy has put all into one place so that um you know it can land in the the homes of of listeners and dads out there. So yeah, search up Fresh Start Your Family anywhere books are sold.
00:53:26
Speaker
We'd be really, really happy to see um how everybody loves And Terry is Terry Snyder Creative on Instagram. Come say hi, dads. If you're like, bro yeah you're rad. Like, come tell Terry because he's fun. agree. No, I agree he's rad. And one sneaky final question, real short. But if, you know, what do you hope, you know, when your kids are 40s, what do you hope, how they want them to think or feel about you as a parent, as a dad, a mom? Totally.
00:53:53
Speaker
You're going to make me cry. Oh, my gosh. I just, I think I'd say I just, you have to go because I can't talk. Unconditional. I don't know. i think see it's... I was going to say that. We've become one, Terry. 25 years. Unconditional love. Yeah. I mean, just, yeah. Unconditional love.
00:54:13
Speaker
um You know, I think... I think that's what people are looking for in this life from day one to to year 100 plus is, um you know, those relationships where you had true unconditional love in friendships and family and partnerships.
00:54:30
Speaker
And, you know, that's where you're going to laugh the hardest. um You're going to cry with somebody you feel comfortable crying around. yeah um You're going to have memories that are imprinted in in your brain forever. And I think that's what I would love for.
00:54:45
Speaker
my kids to to say yeah and i agree it's like just to to know and feel like man my mom and dad really just straight up unconditionally love me and my kid our kids are so different we got the super strong willed competitive she's out the door like you know she'll be cranking on a career stacking cash probably and then we got another kid who's like so chill and easygoing and like just wants to be in nature and have fun in life and um You know, it's just so different. And I just want each of them to feel like they were always perfect just the way they were. There was like nothing else they needed to be. And they felt that like just full blown accepted just as they are. And they were mentored, but they were never.
00:55:29
Speaker
expected to change who they were. And to me, that is like unconditional love. And in their most imperfect moments, they were just embraced with like, oh, dude, this is so normal. There's nothing wrong with you. And like, let's clean it up. Let's learn from this.
00:55:44
Speaker
ah Oh, man, i love that so much. And I too hope I would say my kids know that they were they were loved for who they are not what they did yeah just for being them and they're all their uniqueness because they're all three different i would say so i relate so um blessings to your work terry and wendy uh and that you know obviously your blood sweat and tears went into this and your your years of experience is evident and you get to really see that now that oh wow this does work if you you stick to it it's not it's not a sprint this is this is a long game
00:56:21
Speaker
yeah um But with that, you're seeing it and that's amazing. So blessings to you. Everyone looking for their book and resources, there's links in the description. But you guys have just a rad day. Thank you so much, Travis. This is great. We love you and we're just so grateful for your your work and voice in the world. Thanks, guys.