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Jezebel.com Goes Inside Us
24 Plays4 years ago
The Inevitable Clash Between Jezebel.com & FDS Finally Happened, courtesy of Tracy Clark-Flory, who wrote an entire book on begging dudes to pick her.
Article:
https://jezebel.com/inside-female-dating-strategy-the-subreddit-that-teach-1847558145
https://jezebel.com/do-the-patriarchy-to-me-1846089201
Referenced FDS Posts:
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Transcript
Introduction and Patreon Goals
00:00:00
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:00:01
Speaker
It's your host, Ro.
00:00:02
Speaker
Do you like female dating strategy?
00:00:04
Speaker
Would you like to see us expand on a lot of different platforms?
00:00:07
Speaker
Then please sign up for our Patreon.
00:00:08
Speaker
We are currently targeting a $10,000 per month goal, which would allow us to work full time on female dating strategy content in order to expand on different platforms and upgrade our media presence.
00:00:20
Speaker
As a special thank you to our current Patreon subscribers, we will be increasing our upload rate for our bonus content to be weekly on Fridays, as well as offering a special discount for paid annual memberships.
00:00:33
Speaker
So please check out our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:00:37
Speaker
That's patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:00:40
Speaker
Thank you.
00:00:41
Speaker
Let's start the show.
00:00:47
Speaker
What's up, queens?
Confrontation with Jezebel.com
00:00:48
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:00:53
Speaker
I'm your host, Ro.
00:00:54
Speaker
I'm Mrs. Savannah.
00:00:55
Speaker
And I'm Lola.
00:00:56
Speaker
And finally, drumroll, please.
00:00:59
Speaker
The much-awaited, pretty much completely anticipated showdown with Jezebel.com.
00:01:06
Speaker
Infamous libfemme pick-me
00:01:10
Speaker
Hive.
00:01:11
Speaker
The architect of everything wrong with sex posi-feminism.
00:01:14
Speaker
Created by and for libfem pick-me's.
00:01:17
Speaker
Yep.
00:01:18
Speaker
Just to say, this particular showdown, unbeknownst to us, has been in the making for the past 12 months.
00:01:26
Speaker
And the writer, Tracy Clark Florey,
00:01:30
Speaker
has had a, I'd say roasting from FDS a year ago.
Critique of Tracy Clark Flory's Work
00:01:35
Speaker
So basically in February of this year, Tracy Clark Flory, she's a senior editor, I believe, at Jezebel.
00:01:42
Speaker
Senior staff writer at Jezebel covering sex, gender, and feminism.
00:01:46
Speaker
Author of Want Me, a sex writer's journey into the heart of desire.
00:01:50
Speaker
I'm sorry, but the title Want Me, it's like pick me, choose me, want me.
00:01:55
Speaker
Even the title is pick me.
00:01:57
Speaker
Even the title is Pick Me.
00:01:58
Speaker
And she couldn't even resist.
00:01:59
Speaker
In February of this year, she wrote that book called Want Me.
00:02:02
Speaker
And she was basically doing a press tour for all of these different newspapers and magazines plugging her book.
00:02:08
Speaker
And she wrote an article on Jezebel.com describing her quote unquote sexual journey.
00:02:14
Speaker
Didn't she also write the article, Do the Patriarchy to Me?
00:02:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:17
Speaker
So one of the articles that she wrote was on Jezebel.com was literally titled Do the Patriarchy to Me.
00:02:23
Speaker
And it is the most pick me bullshit I feel like we've read in a long time, right?
00:02:27
Speaker
So our Twitter lit her ass up.
00:02:30
Speaker
Not like a regular roast.
00:02:32
Speaker
We didn't show any mercy.
00:02:34
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No mercy.
00:02:35
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Like, straight up.
00:02:36
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We cremated this bitch.
00:02:37
Speaker
We dropped this... We dropped... Kicked her ass into a kiln.
00:02:40
Speaker
Right?
00:02:42
Speaker
And she didn't respond until this week.
00:02:47
Speaker
She didn't respond until now.
00:02:51
Speaker
Until this week where she wrote this article.
00:02:53
Speaker
So, I want to talk about... Okay, so...
00:02:56
Speaker
I want to read you a couple excerpts from this article that people took issue with.
00:03:00
Speaker
So apparently Do the Patriarchy to me is an excerpt from her book Want Me.
00:03:04
Speaker
So first of all, first of all, what our readers took issue with and what our Twitter took issue with is that the photo to this article is actually really, really graphic.
00:03:12
Speaker
You're seeing a girl with her hair pulled back, obviously like giving fellatio to some dick off camera, but like her neck's really snapped back.
00:03:19
Speaker
So it's kind of an, it looks like an aggressively brutal picture.
00:03:23
Speaker
It looks like a face fucking.
00:03:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:24
Speaker
She's basically choking on a dick.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:26
Speaker
And that's the imagery there.
00:03:27
Speaker
And so first of all, a lot of our users were just like triggered by that off rip or like, why would you put this?
00:03:34
Speaker
For women who have been sexually assaulted, seeing that image was the
00:03:38
Speaker
phrase, do the patriarchy to me, even if you do genuinely have the desire to be degraded, it bothers me when women put these sorts of articles out there because one, men see that shit and they think, oh, women like to be abused.
00:03:50
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Women love the patriarchy.
00:03:52
Speaker
Women love to be oppressed.
00:03:53
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That's why I should treat them like shit.
00:03:55
Speaker
Secondly, like other girls look at that and there's an element of social contagion there.
00:03:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:00
Speaker
The whole thing is basically her feeling insecure because of like porn and then, you
00:04:05
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Having a lot of casual sex in which she basically uses to self-abuse.
00:04:10
Speaker
The opening paragraph of this article goes like this.
00:04:12
Speaker
It was an unforgettable, instantly recognizable sound.
00:04:16
Speaker
Glug, glug, glug.
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Gagging until tears.
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Mascara smearing like that of horror movie heroines.
00:04:21
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There was saliva.
00:04:22
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So much of it.
00:04:23
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Frothy and thick.
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Desperately spit out amid gasping breaths or else escaping from the sides of one's mouth.
00:04:28
Speaker
A face held between palms or hanging over the arm of a couch.
00:04:32
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Men saying take it or good girl or choke on it.
00:04:34
Speaker
Here I have to ask myself, am I writing a love poem or a feminist polemic?
00:04:38
Speaker
That was so disgustingly graphic.
00:04:41
Speaker
Like it is so graphic for no benefit as well.
00:04:45
Speaker
She's basically describing the average violent porn scene.
00:04:49
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:50
Speaker
Most porn has that clip in it where the woman has her head over the back of the couch or over the arm of the couch or whatever, or just like the violent face fucking, this like degrading shit.
00:05:01
Speaker
Yeah, so the rest of it's like her describing
Influence of Porn and Feminist Sexual Liberation
00:05:03
Speaker
her.
00:05:03
Speaker
It just feels very self-masturbatory, right?
00:05:05
Speaker
So it's like the rest of it is her describing like navigating all these videos and like masturbating herself.
00:05:11
Speaker
Gosh.
00:05:12
Speaker
I'm writing about deep throating clips, face fucking videos, scenarios involving women to various degrees, passive or active during a blowjob.
00:05:19
Speaker
And then she talks about how, you know, she watches.
00:05:22
Speaker
She's basically porn sick.
00:05:23
Speaker
This is a woman who's porn sick, essentially.
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah, deeply porn sick.
00:05:27
Speaker
We talk about men being porn sick, but women can be porn sick too.
00:05:30
Speaker
Yeah, so she's she's basically saying the rest of this is like she fakes orgasms with partners, basically admits to being a cool girl because she's like watching these videos, like trying to be the kind of sexual fantasy she thinks these men want.
00:05:46
Speaker
At the end, there's this dialogue where she says, he was the first man with whom I'd never faked an orgasm.
00:05:51
Speaker
Whoa, whoa.
00:05:52
Speaker
So, girl, you're saying you've faked an orgasm with every man you've ever had sex with?
00:05:56
Speaker
That's such a self-own.
00:05:58
Speaker
But it's not even just like laughing at her doing this.
00:06:00
Speaker
It's the fact that like the jizzies have long since been the type of people that...
00:06:05
Speaker
they consider their progressive sexual politics and the fact that they can take this kind of abuse.
00:06:10
Speaker
And like, here's like her in her now mid thirties actually stopping to analyze that.
00:06:15
Speaker
But I'm like, you've been writing for Jezebel for what, like a decade?
00:06:18
Speaker
And it's almost like she's getting this from, because I've read a lot of erotica in my time.
00:06:24
Speaker
Like it's almost like she's trying to be a good erotic writer.
00:06:28
Speaker
And like sometimes in these books as well, you would get a line.
00:06:33
Speaker
This was most,
00:06:34
Speaker
I guess, prominent when I read a book like Fifty Shades of Grey, where it was trying to be sexy and it wasn't where you could tell the author thought, yeah, this is going to make them really wear.
00:06:43
Speaker
And it literally dries you up faster than the pap smear.
00:06:47
Speaker
But this line, do the patriarchy.
00:06:48
Speaker
I was like, what?
00:06:51
Speaker
How is this?
00:06:51
Speaker
It's disturbing.
00:06:53
Speaker
It's actually disturbing.
00:06:54
Speaker
Like,
00:06:54
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It's like she can't dream of another narrative for her sexual experience, so she like has to.
00:06:59
Speaker
It's almost like she voluntarily and then happily frames all of her sexual experiences through the male gaze.
00:07:05
Speaker
And also, but trying to link it to feminism as well when it's clearly not, it's very disturbing.
00:07:10
Speaker
Yeah, I get the sense of a woman who's like really, really internalized a lot of the porn culture narratives.
00:07:16
Speaker
Doing like very specific porn-induced acts that probably weren't part of the national conversation until porn really blew up, right?
00:07:24
Speaker
Like, so you know that this is at least partially culturally influenced.
00:07:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:28
Speaker
And if you criticize it all, they'll be like, you're sex negative or you're not feminist.
00:07:32
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:07:33
Speaker
So they're reflexively antagonistic towards anybody that might say like, hey, sis, you might be a little bit porn sick.
00:07:38
Speaker
Yeah, you might want to examine like your problematic relationships.
00:07:41
Speaker
And she even describes a scenario where like, so she has one part of this article or another article of the review of her book where she says after her mother was diagnosed with cancer, she
00:07:51
Speaker
Clark Flory asked one man to choke her so aggressively he left bruises.
00:07:54
Speaker
She even slept with her favorite male porn star, recreating an act she'd seen him perform with women.
00:07:59
Speaker
The ultimate representation of men's desire, quote unquote, that made her vomit.
00:08:03
Speaker
So she literally is like vomiting.
00:08:04
Speaker
She's having such rough sex that she's self-abusing through sex.
00:08:07
Speaker
So some people can react differently to traumatic news like a parent having cancer or a parent passing away.
00:08:14
Speaker
But she's just not really doing that.
00:08:17
Speaker
Um...
00:08:18
Speaker
Yeah, she's not really connecting the dots.
00:08:20
Speaker
And I just think it's quite irresponsible to make it so graphic when it was clearly quite a traumatic experience for her because it's almost as if she's bragging about the experience while simultaneously saying that.
00:08:35
Speaker
I mean, not even simultaneously saying that it came from quite a dark place.
00:08:40
Speaker
as well.
00:08:40
Speaker
She's pornifying us, right?
00:08:42
Speaker
She's exposing us to more porn when she talks about this.
00:08:44
Speaker
So there's like a sensational, there's almost like a creepy grooming aspect to it, right?
00:08:50
Speaker
Rather than like describing what happened, doing the critical analysis that I think a lot of people would take a step further, especially radical feminists and saying like, okay, here's where these images came from.
00:08:59
Speaker
Here's the responsibility I have to myself or the responsibility I have to
00:09:04
Speaker
either womankind as a whole, but also like critical analysis of how this affects us as a sex class.
00:09:10
Speaker
None of that's here.
00:09:11
Speaker
She just basically settles on like, I want my husband to do the patriarchy to me.
00:09:14
Speaker
I'm sorry, but you can say that this behavior is possibly feminist, but you weren't thinking of Simone de Beauvoir or Andrea Dworkin when you were going out and shagging these men and, you know, getting them to choke you.
00:09:29
Speaker
Yeah, Andrea Dworkin would be turning over into her grave if she knew.
00:09:32
Speaker
This woman was saying this is feminist.
00:09:34
Speaker
They refuse to platform like radical feminist critical thought for that reason, because I feel like a lot of this stuff is called out and how a lot of the violence and sex is the result of pornographic infiltration of our culture.
00:09:47
Speaker
But like one, Jezebel seems to just completely reject that as like a general editorial voice.
00:09:53
Speaker
And then two, there's no resolution to this other than like she doesn't want to actually do any type of reflexive analysis of how this is affecting all of us really.
00:10:01
Speaker
It's just like, look at me, look at me, look at me.
00:10:03
Speaker
I'm so cool.
00:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, she doesn't think about how other women reading her articles or even men reading her articles.
00:10:10
Speaker
She doesn't think about the impact of that writing on women.
00:10:14
Speaker
I mean, she's team patriarchy.
00:10:16
Speaker
She's literally saying she's team patriarchy.
00:10:18
Speaker
Yeah, she's team patriarchy.
00:10:19
Speaker
But she's like just bombarding us with like her pornographic iterations.
00:10:23
Speaker
Like it just comes across very like self-masturbatory, the entire article, right?
00:10:27
Speaker
And I think people don't like being part of her public self-masturbation with an absolutely like...
00:10:33
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:10:34
Speaker
It feels like icky to read this shit.
00:10:35
Speaker
It feels like an exhibitionist fetish, right?
00:10:37
Speaker
You know, some people, like, they want to have sex in public or whatever because they get off on, like, people seeing them stuff.
00:10:42
Speaker
This feels like I'm being part of her sexual fantasy against my consent.
00:10:46
Speaker
Like, I'm reading this article about her talking about her fucked up sex life.
00:10:50
Speaker
And she's like... And it just feels like that's part of the fetish for her.
00:10:54
Speaker
But anyways.
00:10:55
Speaker
Even...
00:10:56
Speaker
The jessies are tearing her up in the comments for like the complete disregard for the graphicness of the imagery as well as the, um, the prose that she writes in here.
00:11:07
Speaker
Meaning like in the comments, they're like, we find this really triggering.
00:11:10
Speaker
Some of this is getting like giving her PTSD vibes and she's like, it's graphic, it's bad.
00:11:14
Speaker
And I've been unable to escape it on this site.
00:11:16
Speaker
Meaning like Jezebel has just decided to kind of aggressively groom their audience with graphic sexual, graphic sexual violence.
00:11:24
Speaker
So anyway, so that's the context in which we started dragging Tracy Clark Flory on Twitter.
00:11:30
Speaker
So fuck, I remember reading Jezebel when I was in my like late teens, early 20s.
00:11:35
Speaker
I remember when I used to agree with some of this shit.
00:11:36
Speaker
I'm like cringing, cringing at my past self.
00:11:40
Speaker
Jezebel used to be relevant for young women anyways.
00:11:42
Speaker
It's not anymore.
00:11:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's not anymore.
00:11:45
Speaker
And I feel like a big part of it is because of shit like this.
00:11:47
Speaker
I guess the clickbaity shock value sex, right?
00:11:51
Speaker
Rather than charting a path forward for enjoyable sex for women.
00:11:55
Speaker
It's like every single writer there was just talking about like their never ending trauma and journey to being a pick me while pretending to be a feminist, right?
00:12:04
Speaker
They never did.
00:12:05
Speaker
They like never did the step they needed to do to actually become empowered.
00:12:10
Speaker
So on to the hit piece that she wrote.
00:12:14
Speaker
Bearing in mind, right, I knew this was going to be a steaming pile of crap because I was surprised to see it on Twitter that she'd written an article about FDS.
00:12:24
Speaker
She hadn't approached us whatsoever.
00:12:26
Speaker
or any of the mod team as far as we're aware.
00:12:28
Speaker
So she was basically getting all her information from the subreddit alone.
00:12:33
Speaker
Not even from the subreddit.
00:12:35
Speaker
She quotes in like the second paragraph, people who hate us.
Misrepresentation of Female Dating Strategy (FDS)
00:12:39
Speaker
She quotes Dominique Sisley as though she's a fucking source.
00:12:42
Speaker
Dominique Sisley!
00:12:44
Speaker
Imagine being that bad as a journalist.
00:12:47
Speaker
You don't even contact the people you're writing about.
00:12:49
Speaker
You quote the people who hate them.
00:12:51
Speaker
If you guys have forgotten about Dominic Cicely, we gave her her own roasting several months back.
00:12:57
Speaker
The episode is Vice Media Comes to the Queens.
00:12:59
Speaker
To give her a slice of credit, she did approach FDS, but then she literally just, we may as well not have bothered, to be fair.
00:13:09
Speaker
Yeah, she already wrote the article she was going to write and then was just looking for some kind of quote to validate.
00:13:13
Speaker
She may as well not put it.
00:13:15
Speaker
Yeah, whatever she was going to say.
00:13:16
Speaker
But again, this is not a legitimate piece of journalism where they talk about both sides and try to give a balanced view of the issue.
00:13:25
Speaker
I mean, she says in the middle of the article, we'll talk about it later, where she's like, FDS has previously criticized me, blah, blah, blah.
00:13:31
Speaker
So she buries it in the middle of the article, but it's very clear that this is just getting back at us for dragging her.
00:13:37
Speaker
Pick me as her stupid book on Twitter, right?
00:13:39
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:13:40
Speaker
And to be clear about this, she even says point blank in one of the interviews she does to plug her book that like, as a young middle-class hetero cis woman, she was often plucked to wade into the culture wars, defending so-called hookup culture as empowering and enthralling.
00:13:55
Speaker
Clark Fleury plumbed her own experience as evidence, but as she writes, I swarmed with contradiction.
00:14:00
Speaker
I was a bona fide sex writer who sang the feminist gospel of sexual pleasure, but my personal life made me feel like an imposter.
00:14:06
Speaker
And like, and that's just ultimately, you know, she said she was sowing her wild oats, but rarely experiencing pleasure herself as she was more consumed with playing out what she thought men wanted from her.
00:14:15
Speaker
So like, yeah, pick me like the entire book is like, this is why I was a gigantic pick me for a decade, right?
00:14:20
Speaker
So she so
00:14:21
Speaker
So basically we dragged her for this because we're like, it was really, really irresponsible for you to have like one narrative that you were doing publicly and then a completely different narrative that was playing out behind the scenes.
00:14:31
Speaker
Not to mention just like this is god awful level pick me for anybody really, but it's especially pick me for a person who purports to be a feminist sex writer.
00:14:39
Speaker
I think the saddest part is that I just wonder how many young women and girls really took in what she was saying and decided, you know, yeah, I'm going to do the same thing and ended up having like a horrible time.
00:14:53
Speaker
I think part of the reason why women's sexuality is often a secondary thought is that we just don't have honest conversations.
00:15:01
Speaker
And the media is so, so powerful, especially like Lilith was saying, you know, Jezebel can be quite popular amongst, you know, young women and...
00:15:08
Speaker
It used to be relevant for young women.
00:15:10
Speaker
It used to be relevant.
00:15:11
Speaker
I read these sorts of articles at a time where I would be dating porn sick guys and they'd be showing me porn about stuff that they want to do.
00:15:18
Speaker
And I would be like, and I'm ashamed to admit it because at the time I had a similar, at the time I had a mentality that was not unlike porn.
00:15:27
Speaker
Tracy Clark Flory, where not thinking about what I want or what my pleasure is, but, oh, I get off on being sexually appealing to the man.
00:15:36
Speaker
Or I get, I enjoy the crumbs of affection that he gives me, but it's that crumbs of affection when I do something fucking depraved for him is part of the grooming process, right?
00:15:46
Speaker
So we need to be able to have critical discussions about why is it that women enjoy sacrificing their own pleasure for the man?
00:15:53
Speaker
Like, why?
00:15:53
Speaker
Exactly.
00:15:54
Speaker
Exactly.
00:15:54
Speaker
Why is it that so many women are not having orgasms, but are doing deep throating or thinking that deep throating is hot?
00:16:01
Speaker
Is it because we actually enjoy it?
00:16:02
Speaker
Or is it because that's what men demand of us?
00:16:04
Speaker
And we think, oh, if we want men to like us, this is what we have to do.
00:16:07
Speaker
Exactly.
00:16:08
Speaker
But do we have to do it?
00:16:09
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:16:10
Speaker
FDS is saying, no, you don't have to do it.
00:16:13
Speaker
You don't have to do it.
00:16:14
Speaker
But it just, it feels weird that like so many of the quote unquote feminist thought leaders or like the people who are given these large media platforms are just devastatingly bad pick me's, right?
00:16:24
Speaker
Yeah, I had fucking low self-esteem when I was doing that.
00:16:26
Speaker
People who do this have low self-esteem.
00:16:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:29
Speaker
Right?
00:16:29
Speaker
Because you don't have a sense of internalized worth.
00:16:32
Speaker
If your worth comes from the attention that men give you, then yeah, you're going to be jumping through hoops trying to do the things that you get praised for.
00:16:41
Speaker
What's important is to have a high sense of self-esteem and that way, if men get mad at you because you won't let them do anal, you won't give them a
00:16:48
Speaker
face fucking blowjob or whatever, if your self-esteem is high, you'll be like, okay, well, fuck you.
00:16:52
Speaker
Like, if you're mad at me because I won't do that for you, then you can go fuck yourself.
00:16:56
Speaker
Right.
00:16:56
Speaker
And you'll move on.
00:16:57
Speaker
And you won't feel like there's something wrong with you because you aren't interested in sexually degrading yourself.
00:17:02
Speaker
It's almost expected that women's sexuality is an extension of a man's sexuality.
00:17:08
Speaker
Like, men have that message, but, you know, women like Tracy Clark Flory, they also push that narrative as well.
00:17:16
Speaker
It's a trope at this point.
00:17:17
Speaker
There's so many of these books and it's almost predictable and cliche.
00:17:20
Speaker
There's so many of these books of women who are like, I was a sex positive feminist and I was a sex writer and I was a relationship writer and I was doing all this stuff publicly.
00:17:29
Speaker
And then it comes out like they're doing, they're splitting one image in their twenties and then they hit like 30 or so.
00:17:35
Speaker
And then they suddenly have this retrospective where they want to talk about how society made them do all that stuff.
00:17:40
Speaker
And then they have almost like this smug sense of like self-importance with this kind of thing.
00:17:44
Speaker
It's almost like this, I want to call it like white liberal porn
00:17:47
Speaker
Right.
00:17:47
Speaker
Like where you start, you start from like this sex posi attitude and then suddenly you want everyone to pay attention to you while you relearn the lessons of the same things that women or like other feminists have been saying for a long time that you ignored and didn't pay attention to.
00:18:03
Speaker
Yeah, that's the other thing is we feminists have been saying this kind of shit like radical feminists have been criticizing sex positive sex posi culture for decades.
00:18:11
Speaker
And what bothers me is even when she goes on her whole redemption tour, they'll say the things that radfems have been saying all this fucking time.
00:18:18
Speaker
Yeah, so I think we will at first want to just roast how bad like the actual writing is before we get into the content.
00:18:24
Speaker
Over to you, Lilith.
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah, over to you, Lilith.
00:18:26
Speaker
So my first thought reading this article was
00:18:29
Speaker
So just some background on me and my perspective on this article is that in university, I used to be a peer mentor.
00:18:35
Speaker
Our university had a program for freshmen who couldn't afford to hire a private tutor where you could go to the library.
00:18:43
Speaker
There's a student learning center.
00:18:44
Speaker
You can find volunteers who then help you improve your papers.
00:18:48
Speaker
So that's what I did.
00:18:49
Speaker
I volunteered coaching freshmen how to improve their college level writing.
00:18:53
Speaker
And one of the things that I see all the time in unsophisticated or high school level writing is what's called floating a quote.
00:19:02
Speaker
And so I always tell my mentees, never float a quote.
00:19:06
Speaker
If you have a quote, you can't just throw it in there randomly and expect the reader to understand why you put that quote in there.
00:19:13
Speaker
You have to engage with the quote.
00:19:15
Speaker
The purpose of having a quote should be to analyze it.
00:19:18
Speaker
not to have words that you want to write, but like you're just too lazy to come up with the words yourself.
00:19:24
Speaker
So you just put someone else's quote in there, right?
00:19:26
Speaker
I see this pattern in almost every single paragraph of this article dragging FDS, where she'll make an outrageous claim about us and then put a random quote next to it, but not actually explain the quote or the context.
00:19:39
Speaker
Like it's a cherry-picked quote that she's taken out of context and she just expects the outrageous claim to go unchallenged because she's put a quote next to it.
00:19:47
Speaker
even though the quote very often is completely unrelated to the outrageous claim that she's making, right?
00:19:52
Speaker
If I received this as a, you know, this is my paper, like, how can I improve this kind of thing?
00:19:58
Speaker
I'd be like, yeah, you're floating your quotes, you need to contextualize the quotes more, you need to actually engage with the quotes in an analytical way, there's just no critical analysis.
00:20:08
Speaker
It's just very, it reads a lot like, you know, a freshman level, you know, fresh out of high school, never written a college paper before.
00:20:15
Speaker
It's just bad writing.
00:20:16
Speaker
That's all I have to say about it.
00:20:17
Speaker
It's just bad writing.
00:20:17
Speaker
Yeah, there's a ton of, I decided a narrative, and then I cherry-picked quotes out of context to build said narrative.
00:20:25
Speaker
It's like a freshman, they decide on their thesis statement first before doing any research, and then they go out there and try to find information that proves their thesis, and then they go out there trying to find evidence.
00:20:35
Speaker
They can't find any evidence, so they just twist whatever narrative or they find bad sources.
00:20:39
Speaker
First of all, she doesn't cite any of this stuff, right?
00:20:42
Speaker
which is, I think, deliberate because if she actually linked to where these quotes came from.
00:20:46
Speaker
And all I did was honestly just try to Google or just type some of these quotes she took from FDS into Google to see if I could find the actual original post.
00:20:53
Speaker
So I found a few of them.
00:20:55
Speaker
And then when you read the entire post, it just doesn't say what she says it is or sometimes is like directly contradictory.
FDS vs. Red Pill Ideology
00:21:01
Speaker
And so it definitely seems like she didn't understand the community whatsoever.
00:21:06
Speaker
She doesn't understand FDS.
00:21:07
Speaker
It looks like she had a very cursory understanding of it, decided to frame it as like an ancillary to red pill because that's literally the laziest way to do it.
00:21:15
Speaker
That's how everybody kind of does.
00:21:17
Speaker
And we are very upset at the disrespect, to be honest.
00:21:20
Speaker
We are fucking anti-red pill.
00:21:22
Speaker
We are counter-red pill, okay?
00:21:25
Speaker
And also, I feel like disrespectful to our work and our thought, right?
00:21:28
Speaker
Why do we have to always be framed in the context of men?
00:21:31
Speaker
They won't do the work of understanding the community to get the nuance going.
00:21:35
Speaker
They just want the clickbaity headline.
00:21:36
Speaker
And because they know it's easier for people to hate on us if they just think we're a female red pill.
00:21:41
Speaker
But even with, like, the cursory, like, even if you just take a look at the front page and then you look at the red pill front page, if FDS was like the red pill, it would be, oh, I'm going to see my sixth dick this evening.
00:21:55
Speaker
Oh, like, how can I scam this guy into sleeping with me?
00:21:58
Speaker
Or how I tricked a guy into claiming paternity for a child that wasn't his.
00:22:03
Speaker
If FDS was like the red pill or the manosphere, that's the sort of shit we would be saying.
00:22:07
Speaker
But we don't say that because... We don't even want the same outcomes at all.
00:22:15
Speaker
We're not pickup artists.
00:22:17
Speaker
We're put-em-back artists.
00:22:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:19
Speaker
Put them down, artists.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:21
Speaker
Put their ass back.
00:22:23
Speaker
And breaking up with someone is not fucking manipulation.
00:22:25
Speaker
I got DMs all the time from like, scrotes and pick me saying that walking away at the first sign of disrespect and being willing to break up with someone is manipulating their abandonment issues.
00:22:36
Speaker
And I'm like, fuck off.
00:22:38
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:39
Speaker
I'm so sorry.
00:22:41
Speaker
You are allowed to break up with anyone for... Obviously, it's different if you're like, if you don't do this, then I'm going to break up with you.
00:22:46
Speaker
That's giving someone an ultimatum.
00:22:47
Speaker
Obviously, that's not okay.
00:22:48
Speaker
But if someone does something that you don't like and you just end the relationship with that person, that's just... That's just consequences.
00:22:55
Speaker
Free choice in America and Canada and UK.
00:22:59
Speaker
That's just free choice.
00:23:00
Speaker
Dems the breaks, guys.
00:23:02
Speaker
I thought these people were all about choosy choice feminism, but apparently choosing not to do what men want is not an option to them.
00:23:09
Speaker
We don't choose to do what men want.
00:23:11
Speaker
It's a problem for men, but also feminists, apparently.
00:23:14
Speaker
But anyway, she actually tries to frame this like we're being the pick me's here.
00:23:19
Speaker
So let's start with the first paragraph.
00:23:20
Speaker
So the title of the article is Inside Female Dating Strategy, the subreddit that teaches women to level up against scrotes and fuck boys.
00:23:28
Speaker
Found in the reaction to the red pill, it's an example of everything that can go wrong when, quote, keeping the enemy closer.
00:23:34
Speaker
Pick me story time.
00:23:35
Speaker
Female dating strategy wants to help women navigate the horrors of heterosexuality.
00:23:40
Speaker
The growing subreddit describes a dating landscape in which women are up against everything from sexual assault to reproductive control, the orgasm gap to the sexual double standard.
00:23:48
Speaker
Facts.
00:23:49
Speaker
Yeah, like these are all legitimate problems that women are facing.
00:23:52
Speaker
So, so far, so good.
00:23:53
Speaker
Correct.
00:23:54
Speaker
But for FDS, the prescription isn't political, but rather looks like something from a 1950s dating manual.
00:23:59
Speaker
Women should tailor their personalities and engineer their dating life in order to get what they want from men.
00:24:07
Speaker
So that's just, I mean... This is just slander now.
00:24:10
Speaker
This is literally slander.
00:24:11
Speaker
We literally say the opposite.
00:24:13
Speaker
A 1950s dating man would be like, make sure to get on your knees and take off your husband's boots the moment he walks through the door and cook him a meal and stuff.
00:24:19
Speaker
You won't see that shit in the FDS handbook.
00:24:21
Speaker
I honestly think she might have gone to red pill women and just got us confused.
00:24:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:25
Speaker
So, also the comment about women should engineer their personalities in their dating life in order to get what they want from men...
00:24:31
Speaker
I'm not exactly sure what she's referring to, but we're talking, what FDS says is we say, you should level up your self-esteem, be a high value woman, have high standards and high boundaries.
00:24:41
Speaker
I feel like saying, oh, you're engineering your personality to get a man.
00:24:46
Speaker
That's, again, peak Darvo.
00:24:48
Speaker
Like, like...
00:24:50
Speaker
This is what you were doing all these years, right?
00:24:52
Speaker
Yeah, like loving yourself and liking yourself.
00:24:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good strategy.
00:24:57
Speaker
Yeah, like she was the one talking about giving blowjobs to men and thinking it was hot to be sexually servicing men.
00:25:04
Speaker
She's the one who's been tailoring herself for men.
00:25:07
Speaker
So yeah, it's just the ultimate Darbo.
00:25:09
Speaker
And the thing about it is she says the prescription isn't political.
00:25:12
Speaker
And this is a theme in the rest of the article where she says that we have no political interest, which is just false.
00:25:17
Speaker
But I'm also just wondering, sis, how do you expect to govern men's sexuality, right?
00:25:25
Speaker
Like in a dating and sex sphere?
00:25:27
Speaker
It's like, are you supposed to confiscate Tinder from scrotes or...
00:25:32
Speaker
Ban scrotes from Hinge 2021.
00:25:34
Speaker
That's going to be I'm going to run for office and that's going to be my platform.
00:25:37
Speaker
So let's continue.
00:25:39
Speaker
She says in the parlance of the subreddit, women should avoid worthless scrotes and should always avoid slanging pussy to fuck boys.
00:25:45
Speaker
Fact.
00:25:45
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not I'm not feeling bad about any of this.
00:25:49
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not ashamed of that.
00:25:50
Speaker
Anyways, she says, So this is an example of floating a quote.
00:25:52
Speaker
She says,
00:26:07
Speaker
She's trying to imply that FDS is like lookist and that we tell women that you should look really hot for a man.
00:26:15
Speaker
That's what she's implying.
00:26:16
Speaker
That's the outrageous claim she's making.
00:26:18
Speaker
And then the quote she chooses is your beauty confidence and company.
00:26:22
Speaker
Like two of those three things are not look right.
00:26:24
Speaker
related.
00:26:25
Speaker
Beauty, confidence, and good company.
00:26:26
Speaker
The other thing is it takes the quote out of context.
00:26:29
Speaker
The context of this quote isn't saying you need to looks max.
00:26:33
Speaker
It's saying that you have worth as a woman.
00:26:35
Speaker
Men want you to be around you because of just the way that you are as a woman.
00:26:41
Speaker
And you need to understand your power and leverage that.
00:26:44
Speaker
So, you know, men will do anything to get attention from women.
00:26:48
Speaker
It's not so much like it has nothing to do with looks maxing.
00:26:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's just discussing the kinds of things that they value.
00:26:53
Speaker
This is the currency that men, yeah, tend to traffic in.
00:26:56
Speaker
And let's not be delusional.
00:26:57
Speaker
Men do care about looks.
00:26:58
Speaker
So we're not telling women to get breast implants and dye your hair blonde and like get fucking fillers and shit.
00:27:04
Speaker
Like you won't see it.
00:27:05
Speaker
But that's the thing.
00:27:06
Speaker
Like when she says women should maximize their looks, she's implying that that's the sort of advice that we would give.
00:27:11
Speaker
But the closest thing that she could get was your beauty confidence and good company.
00:27:15
Speaker
Two of those things are not look related.
00:27:18
Speaker
Anyways, founded in 2019, FDS has drawn comparisons to the broader Manosphere, the collection of online communities united in feminist backlash.
00:27:26
Speaker
Even the description of the subreddit has shades of the Manosphere.
00:27:29
Speaker
Quote, we focus on effective dating strategies for women who want to take control of their dating lives.
00:27:34
Speaker
End quote.
00:27:34
Speaker
It reads, compare that to the notoriously misogynistic, the red pill subreddit, quote, discussion of sexual strategy in a culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men.
00:27:45
Speaker
See, they're not even the same thing.
00:27:47
Speaker
Like, we're talking about dating and they're talking about sexual strategy.
00:27:52
Speaker
I mean, you know, sexual strategy is part of dating, but the red pill is, like, literally only referring to that.
00:27:58
Speaker
They're not talking about dating.
00:28:00
Speaker
They're talking about sex.
00:28:01
Speaker
They're not the same thing.
00:28:04
Speaker
I mean, she pulled those quotes because they both contain the word strategy, but she doesn't take into account what the end goal is and what the strategies actually are.
00:28:14
Speaker
So, FDS, the strategy is to avoid abuse or to avoid being exploited or experiencing bad treatment for men.
Empowerment and Patriarchy
00:28:24
Speaker
We talk about who want to take control of their dating lives because a lot of women feel like they have no control either.
00:28:29
Speaker
in their dating life because we live in a patriarchal world where women generally don't have as much power as men and so we're a strategy to help women feel more powerful in the dating world and the red pill is more about like this quote discussion of sexual strategy and culture increasingly lacking a positive identity for men that's just pr for like this is for men who want to just fuck a
00:28:49
Speaker
Their goal is to maintain the patriarchy.
00:28:51
Speaker
Our goal is to end the patriarchy.
00:28:54
Speaker
So literally the opposite goals.
00:28:56
Speaker
So should we continue?
00:28:57
Speaker
As Madeline Holden at Mel observed, both communities are gender essentialists and see heterosexual relationships as the ultimate prize requiring ruthless strategizing and gaming.
00:29:08
Speaker
At FDS, we don't think heterosexual relationships are the ultimate prize.
00:29:12
Speaker
A happy life for a woman with or without a man is the ultimate prize.
00:29:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:16
Speaker
We tell women all the time that you should be happy single so that when you do eventually date, the man has to be really awesome in order for him to add value to that.
00:29:26
Speaker
And so one of the more important things, lessons with FDS is de-centering men from your life.
00:29:32
Speaker
When you go into dating, being desperate and like wanting a man at all costs, that causes you to engage in pain.
00:29:38
Speaker
pick-me behavior.
00:29:39
Speaker
When you go into it thinking that, oh, I don't need a man, I don't need a relationship, it puts you in a much more powerful position.
00:29:45
Speaker
So you basically need to benchmark men against yourself as opposed to benchmarking them against each other, because then you'll probably make a much better decision as to which one you want to be with.
00:29:57
Speaker
Exactly.
00:29:58
Speaker
So yeah, ultimate prize at FDS is to be a high-value woman and have a great life, with or without a man.
00:30:04
Speaker
And she doesn't actually cite a source.
00:30:07
Speaker
Like, I was thinking when I was reading this, state your sources.
00:30:10
Speaker
Like, she's basically quoting somebody else who's got it wrong, and that's her source.
00:30:14
Speaker
Like, this would not fly in academia at all.
00:30:18
Speaker
Like...
00:30:20
Speaker
Again, instead of contacting, she didn't even contact anyone from FDS.
00:30:24
Speaker
She didn't put a source on the subreddit.
00:30:26
Speaker
Yeah, again, it would be like writing a history of the Vikings, but then only quoting like the English monks who got raided by the Vikings.
00:30:34
Speaker
So, you know, you're only choosing to platform the haters.
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:39
Speaker
Yeah, Mel Magazine is the magazine for Dollar Shave Club for men.
00:30:44
Speaker
So of course they hate us, right?
00:30:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:48
Speaker
They're a free magazine distributed by the Dollar Shave Club for Men.
00:30:52
Speaker
So why you would look at their writers and think they were going to accurately assess who we are seems pretty insane.
00:30:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:59
Speaker
It would be like writing a biography about Andrea Dworkin, but then only, instead of reading anything that Andrea Dworkin actually wrote, then only quoting the people who called her like a fat, ugly femme cell or whatever, right?
00:31:11
Speaker
So yeah, you're not going to get a complete narrative doing that.
00:31:15
Speaker
Anyways.
00:31:16
Speaker
dominique we continue dominique sicily advice pointed out that both rely on biological determinist determinism and cliquish jargon which again like cliquish jargon like every subreddit has in-group jargon right in-group shorthand right like that's just the nature of subreddit yeah like all kinds of groups have their own jargon to refer to whatever like industry or group it is it doesn't mean that it's wrong it doesn't
00:31:40
Speaker
You don't see people saying, oh, like you have your own in-group jargon, just like the red pill.
00:31:44
Speaker
Like the red pill, NFDS, we're not the only ones that have our own in-group jargon.
00:31:48
Speaker
Not by a long shot.
00:31:50
Speaker
Let's just do a recap.
00:31:51
Speaker
So up until now, what we have in common with the red pill is we have the word strategy in one of our taglines.
00:31:57
Speaker
And also we use subreddit shorthand.
00:31:59
Speaker
Let's make a list actually where you want to keep tabs like right, right down.
00:32:03
Speaker
Oh, I'm going to keep tabs.
00:32:04
Speaker
I'm keeping track.
00:32:05
Speaker
Things that FDS has in common with the red pill is one, using the word strategy.
00:32:09
Speaker
Two, talking about relationships.
00:32:12
Speaker
Three, having in-group language.
00:32:15
Speaker
On a subreddit, which is all of the subreddits.
00:32:17
Speaker
All of the subreddits have this.
00:32:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:19
Speaker
So, the Manosphere, for example, has average frustrated chimps or AFCs.
00:32:25
Speaker
AMCs.
00:32:25
Speaker
That's fucking funny, though.
00:32:27
Speaker
Anyways, meaning men who aren't good with women, and they're supposed to opposite the alpha male of the group, or AMOG.
00:32:37
Speaker
I never heard of that before this article, but that's hilarious.
00:32:40
Speaker
Why are these songs?
00:32:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:42
Speaker
Why are these songs?
00:32:43
Speaker
Incels are nothing if they're not funny, to be honest, sometimes.
00:32:46
Speaker
Like, sometimes the things that they go to, you gotta just chef's kiss for, like, the absolute cell phone, to be honest.
00:32:58
Speaker
So she continues.
00:32:59
Speaker
One of the primary aims of FDS is getting commitment from HVMs on their own terms.
00:33:05
Speaker
Parentheses.
00:33:05
Speaker
FDS's disregard for certain types doesn't end with men.
00:33:08
Speaker
It also has little respect for women they call pick-me-shows.
00:33:11
Speaker
A woman in thrall of pick-me culture who will do anything for a man to pick them.
00:33:14
Speaker
Like you, Tracy.
00:33:15
Speaker
I don't know.
00:33:16
Speaker
Do you have any commentary on that?
00:33:18
Speaker
Yeah, we want to date someone good.
00:33:20
Speaker
Yeah, we want a high quality partner.
00:33:22
Speaker
That's not like revolutionary.
00:33:23
Speaker
The thing about this is like, it's just shorthand for you want to date someone who has value to you of some kind.
00:33:28
Speaker
Whenever people criticize this language, they're never really like, they never really criticize the idea behind it so much as they're just mad that we made a shorthand for it, which seems weird to me.
00:33:38
Speaker
Yeah, again, it's the Hitler drank water too fallacy.
00:33:42
Speaker
Like, I always do that whenever people make these kinds of comparisons.
00:33:45
Speaker
It's like, oh, do you drink water?
00:33:47
Speaker
You know who else drank water?
00:33:48
Speaker
Hitler!
00:33:49
Speaker
Therefore, you're just like Hitler.
00:33:51
Speaker
Like, you know, you find whatever tangential connection between two things to say that they're the same.
00:33:58
Speaker
So, anyways.
00:33:59
Speaker
These parallels are by design.
00:34:00
Speaker
FDS was started in reaction to the notorious men's rights subreddit, the red pill.
00:34:04
Speaker
No, we fucking weren't.
00:34:06
Speaker
We were started in reaction to bad dating advice on Reddit for women.
00:34:11
Speaker
A bunch of women suffering in the dating world.
00:34:13
Speaker
Okay.
00:34:14
Speaker
It wasn't even like necessary for us to react to red pill because just the regular degular dating advice that was going on, on Reddit was really, really, really bad.
00:34:23
Speaker
It was influenced by the red pill.
00:34:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:25
Speaker
And yeah, to be fair,
00:34:26
Speaker
Some of that was influenced by the red pill, but some of that was just normal ass Reddit scrotes writing terrible advice and being like, oh, your man's uninterested in you sexually.
00:34:35
Speaker
Have you tried watching porn and jerking off while he plays video games?
00:34:40
Speaker
Oh, he broke your dog's legs and choked you out the last time he was mad at you.
00:34:44
Speaker
Have you tried communicating?
00:34:46
Speaker
You might want to get a couple's therapist for that.
00:34:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:48
Speaker
Rather than like fucking run, you know?
00:34:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:51
Speaker
Like insane things, dangerous things to women.
00:34:54
Speaker
That's, that's what...
00:34:55
Speaker
Feeble dating strategy was created in response to.
00:34:57
Speaker
But the deepest similarity between FDS and the broader manosphere is more than winking... Even she says that so far there's very tangential connections.
00:35:06
Speaker
She's like, it's more than winking acronymic references and romantic strategizing.
00:35:11
Speaker
Both perceive the world as unjust only from a drastically different perspective, either tilting in women or in men's favor.
00:35:18
Speaker
I mean, yeah, we're talking about patriarchy.
00:35:20
Speaker
Is she really doing the whole like both sides have it bad thing?
00:35:23
Speaker
Well, so like the paragraph, she basically says that everything is just surface level.
00:35:27
Speaker
Everything she mentioned before seems is basically surface level.
00:35:30
Speaker
And now she's trying to say like our general ethos is the same.
00:35:33
Speaker
But I'm like, what?
00:35:34
Speaker
But all you're describing is, is patriarchy, right?
00:35:38
Speaker
I mean, she's basically, let me finish this paragraph.
00:35:40
Speaker
So in both cases, that unfairness, the rigged game of it all is used to justify an unapologetically selfish approach that strategically controls and exploits other people.
00:35:49
Speaker
So a couple things to unpack there.
00:35:52
Speaker
One, we live in a patriarchy, you know, male supremacy is real.
00:35:57
Speaker
And so by saying that FDS and the Red Pill are the same, like she's basically forgetting that misogyny exists.
00:36:03
Speaker
It's again, this is supposed to be a feminist magazine.
00:36:05
Speaker
And this is where I kind of say, or like, I think they changed their tagline to a supposedly feminist website because people kept calling them on their bullshit so much.
00:36:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:15
Speaker
But this is kind of one of those things where in her quest to kind of say to basically both sides this argument or just say that we just have so many parallels to the red pill.
00:36:26
Speaker
I feel like she inadvertently.
00:36:28
Speaker
She ends up validating the red pill.
00:36:30
Speaker
Yeah, she's validating the red pill.
00:36:32
Speaker
I guess I would love to hear her explain what she believes patriarchy is then.
00:36:36
Speaker
The idea behind patriarchy is that men are at an advantage in society.
00:36:40
Speaker
And that doesn't exclude dating, sex, and relationships.
00:36:43
Speaker
In fact, arguably, that can be the biggest place where patriarchy ends up playing out.
00:36:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:50
Speaker
And then the second half, she says, "...the unfairness, the rigged game of it all, is used to justify an unapologetically selfish approach that strategically controls and exploits other people."
00:37:00
Speaker
Here's the thing.
00:37:00
Speaker
FDS, we tell women how to spot red flags and then break up with him if he does this stuff.
00:37:07
Speaker
And dip.
00:37:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:09
Speaker
Like, we're not interested in controlling low-value men.
00:37:13
Speaker
We just don't want to be around them.
00:37:15
Speaker
Not to mention, it's pretty impossible.
00:37:18
Speaker
I mean, unless... Unless you're like a next-level sociopath.
00:37:20
Speaker
It's just impossible.
00:37:21
Speaker
And it's a waste of your time.
00:37:23
Speaker
It's a waste of your time and energy to try to game men that way.
00:37:26
Speaker
I mean, who cares?
00:37:27
Speaker
Like, it's like getting blood out of a stone, trying to exploit a low value man.
00:37:30
Speaker
There's nothing to exploit.
00:37:31
Speaker
They have nothing to provide to you.
00:37:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:37
Speaker
The reason why the red pill tries to exploit women is because they want, they need things from us, which is validation, sex.
00:37:42
Speaker
And company.
00:37:43
Speaker
Mommy McBang May type shit.
00:37:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:45
Speaker
Like women actually provide things of value.
00:37:48
Speaker
All the things we describe that men value, they need those things from us more so than we necessarily get it from them until we've learned to live without it.
00:37:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:57
Speaker
But the most annoying thing about this quote is that she's talking about the tactics that the red pill uses, which are basically emotional abuse, like negging, dread game.
00:38:07
Speaker
There's a lot of red pill tactics that are basically just straight up manipulation and emotional abuse, or even just straight up abuse.
00:38:14
Speaker
What we do is we just break up with men when they're being shitty.
00:38:18
Speaker
So I really think it's actually very...
00:38:21
Speaker
fucked up to compare emotional abuse and to say that breaking up with your emotional abuser is just as bad as being emotional abusive, right?
00:38:29
Speaker
That's basically what she's saying.
00:38:30
Speaker
She's like saying breaking up with someone who's emotionally abusing you is equally as bad as emotionally abusing someone is pretty much the secret meaning behind that quote.
00:38:39
Speaker
Continuing on.
00:38:40
Speaker
These communities have a fundamental shared politics, even as they stand in supposed opposition to one another.
00:38:45
Speaker
It's a neoliberal ideology of self-interest, individualism, personal responsibility, and political apathy.
00:38:51
Speaker
Quote, you really have to know what game you're playing.
00:38:54
Speaker
The game men have created and control, writes one poster.
00:38:57
Speaker
Pretending to be naive, stupid, or giving riffraff a chance against your instinctive better judgment only cements your position as a loser in this game.
00:39:05
Speaker
What's wrong with that?
00:39:07
Speaker
Once again, not sure where this quote is from.
00:39:09
Speaker
Again, this is an example of floating a quote where she makes the outrageous claim and then follows that up with a quote that's not related to the outrageous claim.
00:39:16
Speaker
So she's not providing any evidence to actually back up what she's saying.
00:39:20
Speaker
It's so you think she has evidence to back up what she's saying, basically, but she doesn't.
00:39:24
Speaker
Yeah, and the whole thing about that is like, again, just, oh, this is, we've been called neoliberals now.
00:39:30
Speaker
So I just want to be clear.
00:39:32
Speaker
What's the tally of things we've been called neoliberals?
00:39:34
Speaker
We've been called fascists, we've been called leftists, we've been called conservatives, we've been called pretty much every single thing.
00:39:42
Speaker
What I find interesting is that she doesn't really present the alternative to what she would call neoliberal ideology of self-interest, individual, personal responsibility and political apathy.
00:39:53
Speaker
We're talking about sex and dating.
00:39:55
Speaker
But she takes our strategies of trying to survive it as tacit acceptance of it or that the idea that like we just are going to live in this patriarchy and that we think it's fine.
00:40:05
Speaker
No, it's just that you have to do a two-pronged strategy.
00:40:08
Speaker
Like you can't operate in a world in the future that doesn't exist.
00:40:13
Speaker
Of course, it'd be great if things were different, but it's going to take time to do that.
00:40:16
Speaker
And most of us are going to be dating and having relationships.
00:40:20
Speaker
So what are we going to do for women here and now while you have these lofty
00:40:23
Speaker
future, undetermined future goals.
00:40:26
Speaker
Everyone's talking about it, upending the patriarchy, upending the patriarchy.
00:40:29
Speaker
First of all, when you're talking about political action, that takes a very long time.
00:40:33
Speaker
But secondly, when it comes to like your personal relationships, like that is individual, like you have to set the standard.
00:40:39
Speaker
You have to create consequences within your dating and sexual space against not complying with the
00:40:46
Speaker
basic decency or the standards that we set in our relationship.
00:40:50
Speaker
And so you have to be aware of the factors contributing to that so you know how to respond accordingly.
00:40:56
Speaker
And that's what makes FDS FDS.
00:40:58
Speaker
So moving on.
00:40:59
Speaker
But in guarding against the red pill, FDS seems to have absorbed its basic values.
00:41:03
Speaker
So basically, she's making the case that even though FDS tries to be anti-red pill or guard themselves against red pill, by keeping your enemy close, you become like your enemy is basically the case that she's trying to make.
00:41:14
Speaker
So she continues on the red pill delusionally believes we live in a world that benefits women to the detriment of men.
00:41:21
Speaker
She's finally addressing the white, the whole guy, no, crazy is shit kind of thing.
00:41:24
Speaker
So to the detriment of men, particularly when it comes to sex and relationships, this perceived injustice is rooted in evolutionary psychology, specifically the idea that women are biologically designed to sleep with alphas in the interest of securing good genes for their offspring while relying on sad beta providers.
00:41:40
Speaker
Additionally, says the red pill,
00:41:43
Speaker
Feminism has emerged as a sexual strategy, allowing women to reach the best position they can find to select mates to determine when they want to switch mates to locate the best DNA possible and to garner the most resources they can individually achieve.
00:41:55
Speaker
The red pill is a corrective designed to allow men to get what they want, despite supposed evo-psych setbacks and the rise of feminism.
00:42:03
Speaker
So imagine building an entire strategy and philosophy around the idea that you just found out yesterday that women want to fuck attractive men.
00:42:11
Speaker
That's like, that's basically the red pill in a nutshell is like someone told them in their life that a woman was going to love them for them.
00:42:18
Speaker
And then they saw all the like attractive, tall, sexy men,
00:42:22
Speaker
get fucked a lot and they're like, I was lied to.
00:42:26
Speaker
Someone told them that they were going to get a wife by basically doing nothing, right?
00:42:29
Speaker
Just like their dads did.
00:42:30
Speaker
Because before with patriarchy, we've talked about this patriarchy is affirmative action for men, where it helps them to get a wife because women are economically dependent on them versus if women had the choice, we choose to have sex with more physically attractive men, right?
00:42:47
Speaker
Duh.
00:42:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:49
Speaker
It's weird.
00:42:50
Speaker
Who doesn't want to have sex with an attractive person, right?
00:42:53
Speaker
Or a person they find attractive, yeah.
00:42:55
Speaker
They're upset about this, though.
00:42:57
Speaker
The other implication of this article is, she says, the red pill delusionally believes.
00:43:01
Speaker
So she's admitting that, like, the red pill is wrong, but that she's building this case that FDS and the red pill are the same.
00:43:06
Speaker
So is she implying that misogyny or patriarchy is also delusional?
00:43:10
Speaker
Does she think that women are delusional for thinking that patriarchy exists?
00:43:14
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know.
00:43:15
Speaker
Like I said, it's not well written.
00:43:17
Speaker
So there's so many times where you can't really... It's not clear.
00:43:21
Speaker
Yeah, you can't... It's not clear.
00:43:22
Speaker
I feel like it's purposely ambiguous and then she doesn't really, you know, explain her points.
00:43:26
Speaker
So anyway, she continues, similarly, FDS is deeply enthralled by evolutionary psychology around mating and reproduction, but specifically focuses on men competing for sexual access to women.
00:43:36
Speaker
A post on FDS website announces, alongside a comparison to chimpanzees, all males are hardwired to mate guard.
00:43:43
Speaker
From this belief in primate-like courtship inclinations, women are encouraged to, quote, at all times, trigger that alleged guarding instinct and strictly serve sexual access for men who have demonstrated good character and significant investment.
00:43:56
Speaker
So what's wrong with only having sex with men who have demonstrated good character and significant investment?
00:44:02
Speaker
I think she's trying to tie the Evo Psych parallels here.
00:44:06
Speaker
But again, it's like she doesn't do an analysis of which ones she thinks are correct and which ones she thinks are incorrect.
00:44:11
Speaker
But she just points out the idea that they have Evo Psych here, so it must be some kind of wrong or insidious idea.
00:44:18
Speaker
But I'm also like there's sort of there's a bunch of Evo Psych out there and there's a bunch of competing narratives.
00:44:23
Speaker
Jezebel has their own narrative that they take from Evo Psych.
00:44:27
Speaker
The question is, is like, why are we being lambasted for using EvoPsych to do an aggressively pro-female narrative?
00:44:33
Speaker
It looks like Red Pill is using EvoPsych to do an aggressively pro-male narrative.
00:44:37
Speaker
Jezebel has EvoPsych that they use to do certain types of narratives that they feel like benefits their bottom line.
00:44:43
Speaker
Right?
00:44:43
Speaker
Like, I guess I'm saying she hasn't explained why using EvoPsych is incorrect, especially when it's something that's very, very pervasive in media.
00:44:51
Speaker
Yeah, EvoPsych is like really in right now.
00:44:55
Speaker
A lot of people talk about EvoPsych, not just Red Pillars and FDS.
00:44:57
Speaker
Again, this is not unique to FDS.
00:44:59
Speaker
It's the Hitler drank water too fallacy.
00:45:01
Speaker
We just take aggressively pro-female narratives for EvoPsych, right?
00:45:06
Speaker
We don't try to pretend that we're trying to be fair, right?
00:45:11
Speaker
So I think these other places, but the insidiousness of these other types of media that pretend that their evil psych is fair and balanced and without bias is that it's often bullshit.
00:45:19
Speaker
It's written by scrotes who live in academia who want to prove that women really like dad bods.
00:45:25
Speaker
So they make these bullshit studies and then say evolutionary psychology shows that women prefer men with big pot bellies because it shows that they're, um,
00:45:34
Speaker
good providers and they could secure food resources.
00:45:37
Speaker
And therefore, dad bods are sexually superior to women than those guys with washboard abs, right?
00:45:42
Speaker
And we've seen studies like this be published by publications like Jezebel, right?
00:45:47
Speaker
So when they say evo-psych, when she references our references to evo-psych, she doesn't really say that anything that we're referencing is necessarily wrong.
00:45:58
Speaker
Like, she's writing it as though it's self-evident that using EvoPsych is bad, but she's not explained why it's bad.
00:46:03
Speaker
Because it's literally everywhere, including their website.
00:46:06
Speaker
So, continuing on, women who do not withhold sex are seen as betraying the sisterhood.
00:46:10
Speaker
As a post on the FDS website puts it, slanging pussy to fuck boys creates male entitlement and reinforces their sexist worldview.
00:46:18
Speaker
I mean, it does.
00:46:19
Speaker
So we've made the comparison that women who have sex with men who have bad character and low investment are lowering the bar for men.
FDS's Relationship Standards
00:46:29
Speaker
And it's true.
00:46:30
Speaker
They are.
00:46:30
Speaker
It does.
00:46:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:31
Speaker
You got to fight the patriarchy at both the political and personal level.
00:46:35
Speaker
Again, she doesn't offer an alternative to FDS ever.
00:46:38
Speaker
But...
00:46:39
Speaker
Yes.
00:46:40
Speaker
Part of forcing men to respect you is withholding things they value until they respect you, right?
00:46:46
Speaker
You don't just like give them things.
00:46:49
Speaker
And then be like, respect me, respect me.
00:46:51
Speaker
You need to respect me.
00:46:52
Speaker
Exactly.
00:46:53
Speaker
Bad negotiating tactic, first of all.
00:46:55
Speaker
But then secondly, if you keep rewarding people who don't respect you with your company and sex, then they're going to keep thinking that's okay to do.
00:47:04
Speaker
That's not even like a groundbreaking FDS strategy.
00:47:07
Speaker
I feel like every therapist worth their salt will tell you that.
00:47:10
Speaker
This is basically like behavioral science.
00:47:12
Speaker
This is where the whole concept of disciplining a child comes in, right?
00:47:18
Speaker
Spare the odds for the child.
00:47:19
Speaker
I'm not saying you should hit your kids.
00:47:20
Speaker
But...
00:47:21
Speaker
Children need consequence, and so do men.
00:47:23
Speaker
And it seems like consequence is the only language, in my experience, that men actually understand.
00:47:29
Speaker
If you're standing in front of them, you know, paragraphing, giving sermons as to why they treat you like shit, it doesn't work.
00:47:37
Speaker
It literally doesn't work.
00:47:39
Speaker
Everyone will say people respect people who respect themselves.
00:47:42
Speaker
You're not showing respect for yourself when you have sex with people who don't respect you.
00:47:45
Speaker
You're showing that it's okay for them to treat you that way, and you believe you deserve that treatment.
00:47:50
Speaker
And again, I feel bad because this woman's clearly been through it.
00:47:54
Speaker
She's been through it, right?
00:47:56
Speaker
She's got a lot of internalized misogyny.
00:47:58
Speaker
And again, she uses that term withholding sex.
00:48:01
Speaker
I absolutely hate this term because, you know, you withhold something that somebody is entitled to, like food or their wages or something.
00:48:10
Speaker
But men are not entitled to sex.
00:48:11
Speaker
It isn't a punishment if we don't want to have sex with a man for him.
00:48:16
Speaker
It isn't something that he's entitled to from us.
00:48:19
Speaker
Having sex is a privilege.
00:48:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:21
Speaker
Okay, not a right.
00:48:23
Speaker
We've compared pick me's to people who like cross a picket line and go back to work when there's some kind of a union strike.
00:48:29
Speaker
Only having sex with men who respect you and who have shown investment, that's like the workers who don't go to work unless they're being paid a fair wage and are operating under safe conditions.
00:48:39
Speaker
Pick me's who fuck guys on the first date after being disrespected.
00:48:42
Speaker
I do see it as a betrayal of the sisterhood because when you...
00:48:45
Speaker
Fuck guys who treat you like shit.
00:48:47
Speaker
You're teaching them that treating women like shit is what will get you sex.
00:48:52
Speaker
And then guess what?
00:48:53
Speaker
After that, they go on and they treat other women like shit.
00:48:55
Speaker
They feel validated in that worldview.
00:48:57
Speaker
So it's not it's not to blame.
00:48:59
Speaker
And again, it is not to blame women for men's behavior.
00:49:02
Speaker
I want to make sure that we say that it is to say, like, listen, it's.
00:49:06
Speaker
You know, we don't live in a vacuum.
00:49:08
Speaker
We live in a community, right?
00:49:09
Speaker
And cultural change doesn't happen except for when collective action happens for people to believe this is the standard we're going to set for our society.
00:49:18
Speaker
And that's how all of it changes, not just us.
00:49:21
Speaker
And then here in this paragraph, she says, parentheses, full disclosure, earlier this year, the FDS Twitter account called me, quote, an architect of everything wrong with sex posi feminism, end quote, in response to coverage of my book.
00:49:32
Speaker
And then she continues on, like, that was such a weird parentheses, because it's in the middle of a paragraph talking about something else entirely.
00:49:39
Speaker
But she, I like how she put that in the middle of the paragraph in the middle of the article to bury it, to be like, this is totally not like, I don't have a vendetta against them.
00:49:48
Speaker
She's not an objective source, basically.
00:49:50
Speaker
Yeah, she's not a reliable narrator, let's just say.
00:49:54
Speaker
So she continues, withholding sex and generating mate competition is a key way for women to get what they want from men, whether it's money or marriage, says FDS.
00:50:03
Speaker
Sex work, however, is hatefully treated as abhorrent and shameful.
00:50:08
Speaker
Quote, your hoo-ha runs the world.
00:50:10
Speaker
Men run on your time and will do anything to get between your legs, end quote, says one woman.
00:50:14
Speaker
post.
00:50:14
Speaker
So again, ridiculous claim.
00:50:17
Speaker
Sex work is treated as abhorrent and shameful.
00:50:19
Speaker
And then she talks about your hoo-ha runs the world, like pussy is power kind of stuff.
00:50:24
Speaker
I don't see how those two related.
00:50:25
Speaker
Like the pussy is power thing is not evidence that we think that sex work is abhorrent and shameful.
00:50:31
Speaker
Like if you wanted to make that claim, you could pull a quote or something of someone criticizing sex work or something, but she didn't even do that.
00:50:39
Speaker
Like it's just lazy writing.
00:50:40
Speaker
It's
00:50:40
Speaker
She makes it seem like we're manipulating them rather than weeding out men that are not compatible with the things that we need in our relationships.
00:50:47
Speaker
Right.
00:50:48
Speaker
And the reason why it's different from sex work is because sex work is inherently coerced sex to get for economic benefit, meaning like these women who are doing sex work, they're economically dependent on men.
00:50:59
Speaker
So then they are performing a service to sexually please men.
00:51:02
Speaker
We're not performing shit for men.
00:51:04
Speaker
I mean, she's just reinforcing that, like, Manosphere quote that all women are prostitutes, even wives.
00:51:10
Speaker
Wives are just prostitutes on a longer-term contract.
00:51:13
Speaker
So she says for women to get what they want for men, whether it's money or marriage, and then compares wanting money or marriage for men.
00:51:20
Speaker
And she doesn't include respect, sexual compatibility.
00:51:24
Speaker
Orgasms.
00:51:25
Speaker
Orgasms.
00:51:26
Speaker
All the things that she wrote in the beginning that we're up against, she doesn't seem to connect the fact that we are delaying sex until we can evaluate a man's ability to, first of all, make sure they're not a rapist.
00:51:39
Speaker
Or an abuser.
00:51:41
Speaker
Making sure that they're not going to do any type of a coercive reproductive control.
00:51:44
Speaker
Make sure they're not a loser.
00:51:45
Speaker
Make sure they're able to sexually
00:51:47
Speaker
satisfy us and also that they're not like sexist and gonna hold us to some weird double standard those are all things you're supposed to assess about a person before you fuck them i would think so she said okay so she finally gets to the part where she acknowledges patriarchy exists she says fds is right about one thing a patriarchal landscape that oppresses women it takes issue with physical and emotional violence against women particularly within the context of heterosexual relationships fds
00:52:12
Speaker
accurately notes structural inequalities for straight women in sex and dating while the manosphere reacts to women's greater independence as a crime against men.
00:52:20
Speaker
But the respective rightness and wrongness of these two communities perceptions of injustice is overshadowed by their shared belief in individuals aiming themselves to ruthlessly excel with a rigged contest.
00:52:32
Speaker
So let's unpack that.
00:52:34
Speaker
So she says that FDS is right.
00:52:36
Speaker
The patriarchy exists.
00:52:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:39
Speaker
Red Pill is wrong because they think patriarchy does not exist.
00:52:42
Speaker
She acknowledges we do address the structural inequalities of straight women.
00:52:46
Speaker
But then she says she basically the next part, she's saying that because we're focusing on an individualist model within a rig contest.
00:52:54
Speaker
And she says in both realms, political action is spurred in favor of self-help.
00:52:58
Speaker
So, again, what political action is she talking about?
00:53:01
Speaker
Like, how can we force men to treat individual people?
00:53:06
Speaker
Like, how do you, on a political scale, do what is essentially a cultural problem?
00:53:11
Speaker
Are we going to make it illegal for a man to have sex with a woman and not make her cum, right?
00:53:15
Speaker
Right, exactly.
00:53:16
Speaker
From a practical standpoint, how would we make this legally binding, right?
00:53:19
Speaker
How would we make this a political action much more than, like, just being an awareness of, like, how to vet for the kind of men who are actually going to be beneficial to you, right?
00:53:29
Speaker
And it also assumes that, like...
00:53:32
Speaker
even if we were to try to do some kind of political action, men wouldn't figure out how to game that, right?
00:53:36
Speaker
Like, say we did something... It's not like... This is not like a thing that just stops.
00:53:39
Speaker
This is a cat and mouse game that's been going on for eternity.
00:53:42
Speaker
And anytime we create some kind of new progress as women, men figure out how to exploit it to their sexual benefit.
00:53:49
Speaker
So when they say these kind of political action things, I'm like...
00:53:51
Speaker
First of all, we're not saying you can't do any type of political action.
00:53:54
Speaker
She doesn't offer any political action.
00:53:56
Speaker
But for these individual relationship type problems, it does rely on women being able to uphold and have the courage and understanding of what they're up against so that they can properly uphold their boundaries where necessary.
00:54:07
Speaker
Continuing on, she says,
00:54:24
Speaker
Similarly, a popular FDS post explains why playing patriarchy is favorable to fighting it.
00:54:28
Speaker
False.
00:54:29
Speaker
False.
00:54:30
Speaker
This is actually a place where I get really upset because the quote that she pulls this from actually... Let me just read the quote first.
00:54:36
Speaker
So, quote, Sure, we all want to get rid of patriarchy, but instead of letting it get us down and hopeless, some women have turned to shrugging, admitting it is what it is, and using it to live their ideal life.
00:54:47
Speaker
End quote.
00:54:47
Speaker
Writes one user in explaining the FDS approach.
00:54:50
Speaker
Quote, it's going to be a long time before patriarchy is dismantled.
00:54:54
Speaker
So why not make life enjoyable for you?
00:54:56
Speaker
End quote.
00:54:56
Speaker
So Ro, please explain why this quote is taken out of context.
00:54:59
Speaker
The actual, the full post that she pulled this from, and again, I had to Google it because she didn't link shit.
00:55:04
Speaker
And I think she doesn't link stuff on purpose.
00:55:06
Speaker
So this is the overall title of the quote is about how like the awakening women hold more power than they think and can use it to get everything they deserve.
00:55:14
Speaker
There's a quote right above the quote that she takes that says, for my ladies who have given up, love, good men, being moral and doing things the right way.
00:55:22
Speaker
There are ones who will peep game and use patriarchy to their advantage.
00:55:25
Speaker
And there's ones who will peep game and want to destroy the patriarchy.
00:55:28
Speaker
Neither is wrong.
00:55:30
Speaker
So basically this paragraph, she's saying that like, yes, like there are, it's not that it's preferable.
00:55:35
Speaker
It's that these are two different tactics, meaning like these are two different strategies to do it.
00:55:39
Speaker
So she says, those that want to destroy patriarchy are basically FDS's audience.
00:55:44
Speaker
There we go.
00:55:45
Speaker
It says right here, the women who want to destroy patriarchy are basically FDS's audience.
00:55:51
Speaker
This includes getting everything on your own, no depending on men, and absolutely no pondering to men, not looking for good men, etc.
00:55:57
Speaker
Safe route, nothing wrong with it.
00:55:59
Speaker
Sure, we all want to get rid of patriarchy, but instead of letting it get us down and hopeless, some women have turned to shrugging, admitting it is what it is, and using it to live their ideal life.
00:56:07
Speaker
It's going to be a long time for patriarchy is dismantled.
00:56:10
Speaker
Why not make life enjoyable for you?
00:56:12
Speaker
I don't date men that can't elevate or improve my life in any way.
00:56:15
Speaker
So she's saying that like, this is, this is a two prong strategy, meaning both you need to, both FDSs are the ones who want to destroy patriarchy, but also learn tools to work within it while we're still in it.
00:56:28
Speaker
Period.
00:56:29
Speaker
So she pulls the second part of the quote and then ignores the entire first part of it and then says we don't want to do that, which is just false.
00:56:36
Speaker
It's false on the actual post that she pulled it from.
00:56:39
Speaker
Extremely intellectually dishonest.
00:56:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:56:42
Speaker
And the other thing, like the quote that she's talking about, we have a good point.
00:56:45
Speaker
Like I saw an article that was like, oh, at the rate we're going, it's going to take like 200 years before women achieve wage equality with men.
00:56:53
Speaker
Oh, my God.
00:56:54
Speaker
A lot of the goals that...
00:56:56
Speaker
we have as feminists is going to take a long time and several generations to achieve, and we're not there yet.
00:57:04
Speaker
We're working towards a goal, but at the same time, you have to learn to work within what you've got.
00:57:12
Speaker
Yes, we want to dismantle patriarchy, but at the same time, patriarchy is still here, so we have to be smart about the power dynamics inherent in patriarchy, how to live our best possible life in spite of it.
00:57:23
Speaker
My problem with sex posi feminism is that they've essentially acted like, oh, we've already dismantled the patriarchy.
00:57:28
Speaker
Women can fuck whoever we want, free love.
00:57:31
Speaker
Pretending like we've already vanquished the patriarchy is very naive.
00:57:35
Speaker
And secondly, I think it's one of the ways that patriarchy has inadvertently perpetuated itself is by tricking us into thinking it no longer exists.
00:57:43
Speaker
And so, yeah, women have a ton of casual sex and a lot of women are not enjoying it or have experienced rape or abuse or just, you know, bad sex, right?
00:57:52
Speaker
So you can act like patriarchy has ended, but when patriarchy, when you're acting that way in a world where patriarchy still exists, you're just going to fuck yourself over.
00:58:02
Speaker
The attitude of shrug, it is what it is, is a perfect reflection of the red pill's longstanding apathy.
00:58:07
Speaker
It wasn't until blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:58:09
Speaker
I don't know.
00:58:09
Speaker
I'm getting bored with this.
00:58:10
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know where she's going with this red pill thing.
00:58:12
Speaker
She's just trying to juxtapose us to them, even though it doesn't really, it doesn't align.
00:58:16
Speaker
It doesn't align at all.
00:58:18
Speaker
Yeah, and she says in both communities, the personal gain requires personal improvement.
00:58:22
Speaker
Red pill, she's giving a fucking ad to the red pill.
00:58:25
Speaker
She's
00:58:26
Speaker
the red pill emphasizes mental and physical fitness and the journey from beta to alpha.
00:58:30
Speaker
Similarly, FDS users advise women to work towards traits of the very most desirable women who exist at the very highest end of the bell curve, the ones who can barely avoid tons of men wanting to commit to them forever.
00:58:42
Speaker
I feel like this quote is taken out of context as well.
00:58:45
Speaker
Yeah, this is
00:58:45
Speaker
This is in our handbook.
00:58:46
Speaker
It's just traits of the most.
00:58:48
Speaker
It's just like basically one of the high how to be a high value woman post.
00:58:51
Speaker
Personal gain requires personal improvement, meaning like you got to be more attractive to fuck more attractive people.
00:58:58
Speaker
I don't think that's controversial.
00:59:00
Speaker
And I feel like she sprinkles a bunch of stuff in here.
00:59:03
Speaker
That's not true.
00:59:03
Speaker
Like necessarily FDS holds men's commitment as an ultimate goal.
00:59:07
Speaker
No, we talked about our ultimate goal, which is for women to live like have happily fulfilled lives.
00:59:14
Speaker
Commitment is worthless for most men.
00:59:16
Speaker
If the man is low value, the commitment is worth nothing.
00:59:18
Speaker
Yeah, the commitment is only worth as much as the man has actual value to you.
00:59:22
Speaker
And so the idea is to actually secure a relationship or a series of relationships with men who provide value to you.
00:59:30
Speaker
That is FDS's goal.
00:59:32
Speaker
Commitment as it stands is basically worthless.
00:59:35
Speaker
You know, just to get it.
00:59:36
Speaker
Because otherwise, again, you just be the regular old dating advice.
00:59:38
Speaker
Like how to lock down a man for marriage.
00:59:40
Speaker
And that's not us.
00:59:41
Speaker
So she goes on to like talk about the rules and why men love bitches and some other books that, you know, we've mentioned in our reading list.
00:59:49
Speaker
And then she finally gets, this is the, this is the most egregious part.
00:59:52
Speaker
Actually, this is the biggest lie in the whole article.
00:59:54
Speaker
She says, FDS women are encouraged to own their desires and make demands, but specifically in the interest of attracting high value men so that they can get what they want from those men.
01:00:02
Speaker
Quote, when a man has found his dream girl, he was, he will ditch his old ways and become the man that she expects to have, says one post.
01:00:09
Speaker
the woman who becomes a man's dream girl is a woman that has standards.
01:00:13
Speaker
End quote.
01:00:14
Speaker
Having standards frequently manifests on FDS as adhering to old fashioned courtship ideals, like a man taking a woman on a nice dinner date, opening the door for her and speaking on her behalf to the waiter.
01:00:25
Speaker
FDS teaches women to instrumentalize themselves and other people in the interest of getting ahead.
01:00:29
Speaker
So first of all, we have a post saying specifically, um,
01:00:35
Speaker
that a man will not change for his dream girl.
01:00:37
Speaker
She's saying that we said that men will change for their dream girl.
01:00:40
Speaker
Like basically she's spreading that LibFem idea that like if you do everything right and act exactly the way he wants, then he will be the man that you want him to be.
01:00:49
Speaker
False.
01:00:49
Speaker
We've said over and over in FDS, he needs to come right from the beginning, right?
01:00:53
Speaker
Like it's not realistic to expect a man to change for you.
01:00:56
Speaker
I think, so she pulls this from one of the posts, a post called Know What Your Standards Are and Stick To Them.
01:01:02
Speaker
And again, out of context, basically the entire post is just describing the kind of behavior that a man who respects and likes you does, right?
01:01:12
Speaker
It's not saying that like, if he is the type of guy to disrespect women, that he's going to change specifically for you.
01:01:20
Speaker
And I think she just misreads that.
01:01:23
Speaker
The funniest part to me was like her saying that, you know, standards are old fashioned courtship ideals like a man taking a woman out on a nice dinner date, opening the door for her and speaking on her behalf.
01:01:33
Speaker
Why is that seen as a bad thing?
01:01:35
Speaker
Why do libfems act like it's regressive and shitty to want to be treated well and unfeminist for a man to take you on a nice dinner date and open the door for you?
01:01:43
Speaker
Right?
01:01:43
Speaker
Like, it's so funny coming from the jizzies because they're like, you know what I love is a man who grabs me by the hair and makes me cry when I give a blowjob and like chokes me out and leaves bruises and like... Yeah, it's ironic coming from her.
01:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, so why is she acting like we're so unreasonable for wanting or liking men who treat us well?
01:02:02
Speaker
This is the false dichotomy of this like specific strain of liberal feminist thought where they're in a competition to show how much abuse they can take for men to see, to say, to own their desires.
01:02:13
Speaker
But if women like are in a competition of how well we can be treated by men, it's wrong.
01:02:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:20
Speaker
Right.
01:02:20
Speaker
That it's like it's unfeminist.
01:02:22
Speaker
Why is it seen as a bad thing for a man?
01:02:24
Speaker
Why is it seen as bad and unfeminist for a man to treat you well?
01:02:27
Speaker
Right.
01:02:28
Speaker
But why is it feminist for a man to choke you out during a blowjob?
01:02:31
Speaker
I know she said she like specifically struggles with it, but it also just seems like why is that?
01:02:36
Speaker
Why is it an OK choice or a feminist choice or like a choice that we should be supported or like a choice with agency when it's around degradation and sexual disrespect?
01:02:46
Speaker
But if we choose something else, right?
01:02:48
Speaker
that's old fashioned and we're like, we're setting them back.
01:02:50
Speaker
Cause I'm like, it seems like, it seems like a recreation of a gender role.
01:02:54
Speaker
If you're asking men to do pornified sex to you.
01:02:57
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:58
Speaker
That's just a different gender role, but it's a worse one.
01:03:00
Speaker
It's just a different gender role versus like being treated well by them.
01:03:05
Speaker
So I would fucking rather be treated like a princess than be treated like a whore.
01:03:10
Speaker
I'm sorry to say that, but that's like, I mean, true.
01:03:13
Speaker
I know it's going to sound really mean, but
01:03:14
Speaker
That's true.
01:03:15
Speaker
So she says FDS teaches women to instrumentize themselves and other people in the interest of getting ahead.
01:03:20
Speaker
I'm like, first of all, getting ahead where?
01:03:22
Speaker
Where are we going?
01:03:23
Speaker
Having a dinner date?
01:03:24
Speaker
Yeah, having a dinner date, I guess.
01:03:26
Speaker
She's acting like it's so nefarious to want a guy to take you on dates and like open the door for you.
01:03:32
Speaker
I'm looking for a guy who will ask me about my day and like who, you know, makes me come and treats me well and blah, blah, blah.
01:03:37
Speaker
Oh, so you're willing to do anything to get ahead.
01:03:40
Speaker
Get ahead.
01:03:40
Speaker
I'm like, ahead of where?
01:03:41
Speaker
Where?
01:03:43
Speaker
As if it's like a bad thing.
01:03:44
Speaker
I don't understand where she thinks we're going.
01:03:46
Speaker
That's kind of the confusing part of this whole thing.
01:03:49
Speaker
But she's like encouraged to own your desires and make demands.
01:03:51
Speaker
But she said specifically in the interest of attracting high-volume males.
01:03:54
Speaker
And we're saying that's just flat out false.
01:03:56
Speaker
It's own your desires and make demands.
01:03:59
Speaker
High value men will be attracted to your desires and demands.
01:04:03
Speaker
They'll want to actually make you happy, right?
01:04:05
Speaker
They'll bring the value that you expect to you.
01:04:07
Speaker
You're not tailoring your personality to attract them.
01:04:11
Speaker
You're expecting them to bring value to you.
01:04:14
Speaker
The next paragraph is one that I...
01:04:17
Speaker
I saw as a personal attack.
01:04:18
Speaker
No, I'm kidding.
01:04:19
Speaker
This next paragraph really bothered me a lot.
01:04:22
Speaker
She says, the FDS personal improvement mentality necessarily places responsibility on individual women for avoiding victimhood and exploitation, which is, of course, inherently victim blaming.
01:04:33
Speaker
Quote, you have to be repulsive to predators.
01:04:36
Speaker
Be the opposite of what predators look for, writes one poster.
01:04:39
Speaker
Predators look for someone naive or people with unresolved traumas.
01:04:44
Speaker
If you are naive, either completely avoid men or learn not to be naive.
01:04:47
Speaker
If you have any traumas, work on them.
01:04:50
Speaker
End quote.
01:04:50
Speaker
She sets up a false binary here.
01:04:52
Speaker
She sets up a false binary that because we advocate for personal responsibility in the sense that like we're giving women strategies to avoid victimhood and exploitation.
01:05:01
Speaker
We must be blaming them for that.
01:05:04
Speaker
That's has, that's, that's not, that doesn't follow.
01:05:06
Speaker
Like she made an entire editorial choice here that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
01:05:11
Speaker
We're not blaming women for being exploited.
01:05:13
Speaker
We're just like saying, here's the tools to avoid it because most people, if they knew, would choose it.
01:05:20
Speaker
And then she continues, quote, young women need to be aware of the behaviors of men, how to recognize them and avoid being destroyed by said men.
01:05:26
Speaker
You need to plan and strategize so that you don't fall victim.
01:05:29
Speaker
Victimhood will not fly here.
01:05:31
Speaker
End quote.
01:05:32
Speaker
I've got a strong sense that this quote has been cut in half.
01:05:35
Speaker
It has.
01:05:36
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:36
Speaker
And there's, you can even see the ellipses.
01:05:39
Speaker
Like that's not the entire like comment.
01:05:42
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:43
Speaker
It's just so dishonest.
01:05:44
Speaker
Okay.
01:05:45
Speaker
Oh, here it is actually says, it says, you know, plan and strategize.
01:05:47
Speaker
So you don't fall victim.
01:05:48
Speaker
Victimhood will not fly here.
01:05:49
Speaker
You will have to, you have the power to take charge of your life.
01:05:52
Speaker
You can't sit in your house waiting for Prince Charming.
01:05:55
Speaker
So you need to stop selling yourself short and open your eyes to your truth.
01:05:58
Speaker
Women have more power than they know.
01:05:59
Speaker
And your hoo-ha runs the world.
01:06:01
Speaker
So again,
01:06:01
Speaker
She takes this quote when we're talking about not feeling sorry for yourself and then equates that to sexual assault, which is not the case.
01:06:10
Speaker
Again, decontextualized here.
01:06:12
Speaker
Yeah, we're saying don't sit around and feel sorry for yourself and expect good things to happen to you.
01:06:17
Speaker
And she's saying, oh, that's victim blaming.
01:06:19
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:20
Speaker
And we're also saying that a man isn't going to save you as well.
01:06:24
Speaker
And that's also victim blaming, allegedly.
01:06:26
Speaker
So this, what she discusses here, and just to wrap up this thread, she says, Personal savvy eclipses the systemic threats to women's safety.
01:06:36
Speaker
It is a compelling fantasy of the individual triumphing over injustice.
01:06:41
Speaker
So this concept is something that I actually have struggled with a lot with FDS.
01:06:46
Speaker
I read Jess Taylor's book,
01:06:48
Speaker
why women are blamed for everything.
01:06:50
Speaker
And she talks about how self-defense classes and other ways that women might prevent themselves from getting assaulted sort of implicitly place the onus on women to avoid male violence, right?
01:07:02
Speaker
And there are two, like Jess Taylor does a really good way of explaining this.
01:07:08
Speaker
My problem with this narrative though, even though it's true, my problem with this narrative is that
01:07:14
Speaker
it kind of makes you impotent.
01:07:16
Speaker
It's like, what do you, because men want the exploitation of women to continue.
01:07:22
Speaker
Women don't want it to continue.
01:07:24
Speaker
So if we want things to change, it's a complex conversation because on the one hand, people blame themselves often because they want to feel like they're in control.
01:07:33
Speaker
Unfortunately, we live in an unjust world where shitty things happen to good people and we have no control over that.
01:07:39
Speaker
And so we want to
01:07:40
Speaker
As humans, we want to make sense of the world.
01:07:42
Speaker
We want to think of things in terms of cause and effect.
01:07:44
Speaker
When something bad happens to someone, we want to think, oh, they must have had it coming, or it was their fault for not preventing it, or something like that.
01:07:51
Speaker
So that's just kind of the worldview that we're operating within.
01:07:54
Speaker
That being said...
01:07:57
Speaker
I don't think it is beneficial to women.
01:08:01
Speaker
Ultimately, if we want to end male violence, women have to do something about it, right?
01:08:05
Speaker
Because men aren't going to stop it.
01:08:06
Speaker
Men benefit from male violence.
01:08:07
Speaker
They benefit from exploiting women.
01:08:09
Speaker
And we don't want to be exploited.
01:08:11
Speaker
So that means we have to do something about it, right?
01:08:14
Speaker
And we need to do something about it, both on the individual and on the structural level.
01:08:19
Speaker
which we talk about all the time, but she conveniently ignores it.
01:08:22
Speaker
In terms of like, you know, you have to be repulsive to predators, be the opposite of what predators look for.
01:08:27
Speaker
It doesn't mean if you fall victim to a predator, that person shouldn't be prosecuted and it's your fault.
01:08:32
Speaker
I think they're making it seem like she's setting up a false binary where either...
01:08:37
Speaker
Where we're saying that like, if you don't take responsibility and something happens to it's your fault is difference between assuming fault and then taking responsibility taking responsibility is not assigning fault.
01:08:48
Speaker
It's just a matter of like, trying to do your best to navigate a system that may or may not be in your favor.
01:08:54
Speaker
but still working towards the idea that, but still like, you know, supporting women when they do fall victims, but helping them to get up and still make something of their lives.
01:09:03
Speaker
I think she just sets up these false binaries all the time because, and this is something they do because they can't imagine a narrative outside of these like, you know, left wing, right wing type of libfem narratives where it's not one thing, it must be the other.
01:09:16
Speaker
They have this idea that like, if we say, um,
01:09:20
Speaker
not being a victim is beneficial to you or like not wallowing in your victim is beneficial.
01:09:24
Speaker
That denies the fact that they're being victims.
01:09:26
Speaker
No, we're just saying that like, this is an effective way to help you either avoid trauma altogether, which is preferable, but also heal from trauma, move past trauma.
Addressing Male Violence and Societal Change
01:09:35
Speaker
Right.
01:09:35
Speaker
It's not like, we're not, we're trying to make sure that you're, that people aren't just like sitting here wallowing.
01:09:40
Speaker
Like there's nothing I can do.
01:09:41
Speaker
I've been a victim or I'm going to be a victim.
01:09:43
Speaker
And they're just kind of treading water.
01:09:45
Speaker
being confused about how to drive forward or drive the car in their own life.
01:09:50
Speaker
Ultimately, what's the alternative, right?
01:09:54
Speaker
So we're saying that women need to be aware of the behaviors that men do, their tactics, how to recognize them, how to avoid them.
01:10:00
Speaker
That's labeled victim blaming.
01:10:01
Speaker
My problem with the victim blaming narrative is that it's basically encouraging women to just be in danger and hope nothing bad happens to them.
01:10:08
Speaker
And it's also encouraging us to just hope that men just mutate and become better.
01:10:14
Speaker
And again, I think there is a fine line between saying women can protect themselves and self-preservation and also expecting men to step up.
01:10:24
Speaker
For me, it gets tricky because it's obvious we can't rely on men as a class to all of a sudden want to be better human beings.
01:10:31
Speaker
If we do that, we're never getting out of the patriarchy, let's be real.
01:10:35
Speaker
It's just not going to happen.
01:10:36
Speaker
I would love to eradicate male violence.
01:10:38
Speaker
I'd love to live in a world where women could just walk the street at night and feel completely safe and not be at risk of male violence and so on, or just enter into relationships and be trusting and naive and just be lucky and not have anything bad happen to them.
01:10:54
Speaker
I would love for us to live in that kind of world where women didn't have to engage in all of these strategies to protect themselves.
01:11:00
Speaker
But unfortunately, the
01:11:00
Speaker
That's not the world we live in.
01:11:02
Speaker
And it's probably going to be another hundred years, if that, before we eradicate male violence and exploitation of women.
01:11:08
Speaker
And what oppressed group of people have ever been freed from their oppression by just hoping that their oppressor will be nicer to them?
01:11:19
Speaker
Even if you look at, you know, civil rights, that was, you know, civil disobedience, it was protests, it was stuff like that.
01:11:27
Speaker
LGBT rights as well.
01:11:28
Speaker
Like, it wasn't just a case of, oh, we'll just, you know, carry on and just hope that they'll be nice to us.
01:11:34
Speaker
Like, there needs to be action or there's always action, you know, from the oppressed group.
01:11:38
Speaker
That's just the way the social order is.
01:11:41
Speaker
Yeah, if someone's attacking you, you have to do something to protect yourself.
01:11:45
Speaker
You know, I'm not saying it's your fault if you get attacked.
01:11:47
Speaker
No, not at all.
01:11:49
Speaker
Not at all.
01:11:53
Speaker
This is the word salad.
01:11:54
Speaker
Let me preface
Misrepresentation in Mainstream Media
01:11:56
Speaker
this.
01:11:56
Speaker
This next paragraph is the word salad they do in every single mainstream media publication when they don't want to actually address our views on BDSM and porn.
01:12:04
Speaker
They hide it in a paragraph because we've been very explicit about between the podcast and the numerous articles about why we have issues with porn and BDSM.
01:12:13
Speaker
And none of these feminist magazines, none of these mainstream media magazines will fairly represent our points.
01:12:18
Speaker
And they do that because our points are actually completely reasonable, but they don't have a response to it.
01:12:24
Speaker
So this next paragraph, she says like, FDS is no stranger to hate.
01:12:27
Speaker
The community takes a moralizing stance against porn and BDSM and exhibits transphobia, whorephobia and fatphobia.
01:12:33
Speaker
I really dislike the comparison.
01:12:35
Speaker
So the moralizing stance against porn and BDSM is that it's harmful to women.
01:12:40
Speaker
oh, like, we're so horrible giving a shit about women's and their exploitation.
01:12:44
Speaker
Secondly, I don't like how they're comparing transphobia, whorephobia, fatphobia to legitimate critique of the porn industry and the power dynamics of BDSM.
01:12:56
Speaker
Basically comparing, like, hate speech to critique of an industry that abuses women.
01:13:02
Speaker
And she doesn't provide any receipts.
01:13:04
Speaker
There's no receipts.
01:13:06
Speaker
Yeah, she doesn't give any examples.
01:13:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:13:07
Speaker
And she doesn't really justify how we're whorephobic, transphobic, or fatphobic.
01:13:11
Speaker
Of course, opportunism and desperation tend to play out somewhat differently for women thanks to the systemic inequality that FDS is uninvested in collectively tackling.
01:13:20
Speaker
False.
01:13:22
Speaker
False.
01:13:23
Speaker
Again, I don't know where she got this from.
01:13:26
Speaker
Sis, I don't know how you're addressing systemic inequality by begging men to do the patriarchy to you, okay?
01:13:33
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
01:13:34
Speaker
I don't see how throwing up on a guy's dick is challenging systemic inequality, okay?
01:13:39
Speaker
Fucking speak for yourself.
01:13:40
Speaker
Anyways, continues, FDS gives women advice on using men to their personal benefit, much as the red pill does for men, but unlike in the manosphere, this runs alongside strategizing on legitimate, proportional, reality-based concerns around everything from sexual assault to reproductive control.
01:13:55
Speaker
So she says we're just as bad as the red pill.
01:13:58
Speaker
Difference is that the red pill's beliefs are based on nothing, and FDS is based on the very real concerns.
01:14:04
Speaker
So basically she hasn't got an article then.
01:14:07
Speaker
Yeah.
01:14:08
Speaker
She's like, FDS and the red pill are just as bad, except that the red pill is based on falsehoods and FDS is based on reality.
01:14:14
Speaker
So we're not like the red pill then, right?
01:14:17
Speaker
Like...
01:14:18
Speaker
She's got no article.
01:14:19
Speaker
She's literally dismantled her article.
01:14:21
Speaker
She's literally dismantled her own argument.
01:14:25
Speaker
In that sentence?
01:14:26
Speaker
At the very end.
01:14:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's like the comparisons to us and Red Bull are superficial at best.
01:14:32
Speaker
And again, it's like, what was that tally?
01:14:34
Speaker
I didn't keep the whole tally.
01:14:36
Speaker
It was like we have in-group jargon, using the word strategy, talking about dating.
Self-Worth and Relationship Standards
01:14:41
Speaker
Evo psych, vague references to Evo psych.
01:14:43
Speaker
We're both human beings.
01:14:45
Speaker
We breathe air.
01:14:46
Speaker
We drink water.
01:14:47
Speaker
On Earth, we're mammals.
01:14:48
Speaker
We breathe air.
01:14:53
Speaker
End paragraph.
01:15:14
Speaker
I don't date men that can't elevate or improve my life in any way.
01:15:17
Speaker
Right.
01:15:18
Speaker
Swan FDS poster.
01:15:19
Speaker
I think more women should do this and protect themselves as you won't fall victim to bums that hold you back for years on end.
01:15:24
Speaker
With my ex, I was able to get trips overseas, gifts, protection, devotion, and admiration.
01:15:30
Speaker
That's the, that's the final quote.
01:15:32
Speaker
That's the fucking final quote she puts in there.
01:15:36
Speaker
What's with these lip films who are so used to getting treated like shit that they think like they think that you're a bad person if you want to be treated well?
01:15:44
Speaker
I don't see a problem.
01:15:45
Speaker
Yeah.
01:15:46
Speaker
Where's the problem?
01:15:47
Speaker
Again, I don't understand this.
01:15:49
Speaker
I'm not seeing the exploitation.
01:15:51
Speaker
I'm not seeing the abuse.
01:15:52
Speaker
I'm not seeing you know what I'm saying?
01:15:54
Speaker
Like there's nothing here that suggests that whatever was given to her wasn't deserved.
01:15:58
Speaker
Right.
01:15:59
Speaker
Like you can make the argument like did she browbeat him into it?
01:16:02
Speaker
Did she choke him out?
01:16:03
Speaker
Did she scream at him every day until he bought her gifts?
01:16:06
Speaker
Like, no.
01:16:06
Speaker
They went on a vacation together.
01:16:08
Speaker
Oh my God, she's exploiting him.
01:16:10
Speaker
Yeah.
01:16:10
Speaker
The thing about it, she doesn't explain like why this is bad, why it's exploitation, why it's like, we can explain very clearly why the red pill is abusive and exploitative to women, right?
01:16:19
Speaker
Their whole premise is things like negative, like negging, like dread game, all that kind of stuff is trying to exhibit emotional abuse.
01:16:26
Speaker
This is just her like,
01:16:28
Speaker
insisting on being treated a certain way or walking away from guys or like finding men who'll treat her a certain way right or just finding those guys like not threats not trying to like control them not manipulating them like the sentence i don't date men that can't elevate or improve my life in any way why would you want to date a guy who doesn't like why is that a bad thing why would you want to date a guy who harms your life
01:16:54
Speaker
Right?
01:16:54
Speaker
Is that equality?
01:16:56
Speaker
And the thing about this is she's saying none of these communities are interested in equality, mutuality, vulnerability, or interdependence.
01:17:01
Speaker
Like, false.
01:17:01
Speaker
Again, if you find a good guy, then it's fine.
01:17:05
Speaker
The problem is finding the right guy.
01:17:06
Speaker
She thinks that a maximizing female benefit is against equality.
01:17:11
Speaker
Like, I've seen that argument before that FDS is against equality because they're female supremacists and they want they advocate for women.
01:17:18
Speaker
And again, I don't see why that's a bad thing.
01:17:20
Speaker
We live in a patriarchy where women are oppressed.
01:17:22
Speaker
You have to be able to ruthlessly advocate for yourself.
01:17:26
Speaker
You need a defense and an offense.
01:17:28
Speaker
These people are just focused on defense all the time.
01:17:31
Speaker
Not even that.
01:17:31
Speaker
They're just focused on undermining their own shit.
01:17:33
Speaker
I don't understand libfemmes who think that you're a bad person if you want a man to add value to your life.
01:17:40
Speaker
Maybe just because they are used to dating men who subtract value from their life, and so they think that that's the norm.
01:17:47
Speaker
Oh, sorry, there's one more line at the end.
01:17:48
Speaker
I didn't read it because it was, I didn't see it at first because it was after they're subscribed to our newsletter.
01:17:52
Speaker
But the last, last sentence is, she adds, they recognize, quote, they recognize women that know they're the prize, end quote.
01:18:00
Speaker
So what's wrong with women seeing themselves as the prize?
01:18:04
Speaker
What's wrong with women valuing themselves?
01:18:06
Speaker
With having self-esteem.
01:18:08
Speaker
We're supposed to chase after men and beg them to like us like she does.
01:18:13
Speaker
We're supposed to beg them, want me, pick me.
01:18:16
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
01:18:17
Speaker
This is bookending the beginning of this podcast.
01:18:19
Speaker
We're supposed to chase after men and say, want
Strategies for Women in a Patriarchal System
01:18:22
Speaker
me.
01:18:22
Speaker
And we're not doing that.
01:18:24
Speaker
So it's a problem for Tracy Clark Florey.
01:18:26
Speaker
Again, she has the same mentality as these sorts of women who, you know, we've talked about this on the Discord in the past, how insecure women can often be the most toxic friends because if they see you doing too well, then they're going to try to tear you down and like destroy you.
01:18:42
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, the thing is, she's watching men take an offensive.
01:18:45
Speaker
She's seeing the red pill.
01:18:46
Speaker
She's seeing the manos for mobilize, create these armies against us.
01:18:49
Speaker
She knows patriarchy is real.
01:18:51
Speaker
They have mounted a strong offense.
01:18:54
Speaker
They're trying to run the ball all the way down to our goal, right?
01:18:57
Speaker
And it's like she expects us to sit there and pretend like they don't exist instead of like launching an ability to score the other way, right?
01:19:04
Speaker
And I know I hate it.
01:19:04
Speaker
And if we try to score the other way, that's victim blaming or manipulation or exploitative or whatever.
01:19:09
Speaker
Right.
01:19:10
Speaker
Or like all it is, is like balancing the score, right?
01:19:13
Speaker
Or it's like trying to create some kind of balance because if we don't, then men continue to do what they always do, which is prioritize themselves, privilege themselves, try to subjugate women.
01:19:22
Speaker
And then lo and behold, we end up in another patriarchal exploitive system.
01:19:25
Speaker
And then lib films are all scratching their heads.
01:19:27
Speaker
Like, I don't know how we got here.
01:19:29
Speaker
Why are men like this?
01:19:30
Speaker
And like acting confused and shit.
01:19:32
Speaker
And we're like, because you didn't launch an offensive.
01:19:35
Speaker
Like FDS, like I said, since we say we're explicitly pro-female,
01:19:39
Speaker
self, like trying to look for strategies that benefit women, it's because we are trying to create a counterbalance towards patriarchal forces.
01:19:47
Speaker
You can't just sit there and expect men to magically become the kind of men you have.
01:19:53
Speaker
You have to create systems by which they experience consequences for not doing the kinds of behavior that you want.
01:19:59
Speaker
And that includes not slinging pussy to fuck boys because you reinforce their disrespect.
01:20:05
Speaker
You reinforce that you're not worthy of the treatment and the respect that
01:20:08
Speaker
feminists so desperately want in their relationships, right?
01:20:11
Speaker
And in their sex lives.
01:20:13
Speaker
She's a perfect example of a person who never demanded respect, mutuality, reciprocity in any of her relationships.
01:20:19
Speaker
And that's why she never had orgasms in any of them until like the very last one, because you didn't do any of this work.
01:20:26
Speaker
You can't sit there and just keep expecting to find these guys.
01:20:30
Speaker
And you haven't actually done anything to start to weed off and launch an offensive.
01:20:35
Speaker
And it's not your fault that men are like that, but men
01:20:37
Speaker
are like that.
01:20:38
Speaker
So what are you going to do?
01:20:39
Speaker
What's the solution?
01:20:41
Speaker
All this criticism, and this is my rant about everybody that Chris is FDS.
01:20:45
Speaker
Come up with your own shit.
01:20:48
Speaker
What's your prescription?
01:20:49
Speaker
Tell me the alternative.
01:20:51
Speaker
Tell us the alternative.
01:20:52
Speaker
I will
01:20:52
Speaker
We'll look forward to your book or your article, Tracy Clark Flory, where you describe or your podcast where you describe like how to counteract all these forces that are coming from men, not just the manosphere, but porn.
01:21:05
Speaker
Everything else that we talk about are that women are up against by sitting around twiddling your thumbs, writing article after article about how men should be better and how we should educate them.
01:21:14
Speaker
and expect them to care and expect things to change.
01:21:17
Speaker
And they never do.
01:21:18
Speaker
And you sit there and be confused year after year.
01:21:20
Speaker
And we'll be over here creating strategies, running the ball into the end zone and thumbing our noses at you and being like, get your shit together, sis.
01:21:27
Speaker
We'll be waiting here for you.
01:21:29
Speaker
I'm out.
01:21:29
Speaker
Woo!
01:21:29
Speaker
Mic drop.
01:21:30
Speaker
As much as we roast Tracy Clark Flory, I do hope she figures her shit out.
01:21:34
Speaker
And when she does figure her shit out, you know, we'll embrace her with open arms.
01:21:37
Speaker
But as of yet, you know, she's still got to level up, sis.
01:21:40
Speaker
Bam.
01:21:42
Speaker
All right, that's our
Conclusion and Promotions
01:21:43
Speaker
show.
01:21:43
Speaker
Please check out our Patreon for weekly bonus content, as well as our newly launched Discord if you want to chit chat with us at the Level Up or Queen tiers.
01:21:53
Speaker
And also submit your roasted groats or queen chits if you want us to read a lot on the podcast.
01:21:58
Speaker
Also visit our website, thefemaledatingstrategy.com.
01:22:01
Speaker
You can check out our forum.
01:22:03
Speaker
And also message us on Twitter at femdatstrat.
01:22:06
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens.
01:22:07
Speaker
And for all you jessies out there, we're going to say die mad, but that's reserved for men.
01:22:11
Speaker
So this is like our very nice contrite.
01:22:13
Speaker
Just do better.
01:22:14
Speaker
Level up, sis.
01:22:15
Speaker
See you next week.
01:22:15
Speaker
Bye.