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How to GROW old TOGETHER with Rachel Elder
20 Plays2 years ago
In this episode Licensed Couples Therapist and Relationship Coach Rachel Elder drops some real nuggets of wisdom to help couples create a relationship and/ or marriage that is thriving, passionate, deeply intimate.
** Stop feeling restrictied in your relationship with expections. Here you'll learn how "Intimacy is more than sex. It is meant to devlop. It's communication and how we handle conflict'' - Rachel Elder
Show Note Links:
- Rachels has a SPECIAL Relationtship CHECK-IN GUIDE you can download here
- Follow Rachel @racheleldercoaching
- The COUPLES Retreat deets here
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Intimacy Expectations
00:00:00
Speaker
So I'm going to start with that word expectation because I think intimacy, if it has expectations behind it, you're already setting yourself up for some trouble.
Meet Heather Georgel
00:00:11
Speaker
Hey sister friend, it's Heather Georgel, your certified life and NLP practitioner. And here we make doing the inner work not suck by talking about all things motherhood, womenhood, sex, and everything in between. Are you ready? Let's talk. This is the Sex and Motherhood Podcast.
Introducing Rachel Elder
00:00:32
Speaker
I am so excited for today's episode and the reason why is because I have Rachel Elder here and she is a licensed therapist and relationship coach helping couples create the relationship and the marriage that they envision so that it can be thriving and passionate and deeply intimate so they can grow old together. I don't know about you, but I definitely want to grow old together.
00:00:55
Speaker
with my sweet heart. Rachel is a momma to a two-year-old, a wife and fellow entrepreneur, and she is a lover of iced mochas. We are so excited to have you on the Sex and Motherhood podcast today, Rachel.
Rachel's Background and Focus
00:01:10
Speaker
Would you please introduce yourself to our listeners?
00:01:14
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm Rachel Elder. I am a licensed mental health counselor. I am licensed in Washington State and Florida State. And then I also do relationship coaching, which I can do anywhere virtually. Therapy and coaching is different, so if you ever need a breakdown of it.
00:01:32
Speaker
ask me to be a DM and I can break it down. But basically my passion is helping couples and individuals who are in relationships really figure out how to have that, that marriage, that long-term relationship that they've envisioned and that they want. And that feels like it's thriving, it's healthy, it's deeply intimate. And the goal is that you will grow old and gray together.
00:01:57
Speaker
I love that. I love that. Because I think ultimately, that's what I know I desire, that type of outcome, you know, not to have things start to break down or, or things like that.
Communicating Desires in Relationships
00:02:09
Speaker
Um, one thing I'd really like to ask you, Rachel, since you talked about building the intimacy and creating, creating that is, you know, on my original story, being able to talk about intimacy or sex was
00:02:23
Speaker
not something that we did at home. And so after 14 years of marriage, it's taken a long time for me to feel comfortable in having that communication. So what would be like your tips or like your, how would you say to have those conversations before a relationship starts? Like what the expectation is for the intimacy and the sex before and during relationships?
00:02:53
Speaker
So I'm going to start with that word expectation because I think intimacy, if it has expectations behind it, you're already setting yourself up for some trouble. So I really like to think about intimacy is desire. Desire has hopes, dreams, goals behind it, but if you make it an expectation, then it doesn't allow for both parties to compromise, to have a voice in the process. So
00:03:20
Speaker
If you're coming in with expectations, I'm going to ask you to throw that out and go into your desire with it. So I think the best way is to start by saying, I desire this. This is what I'm thinking. This is what I'm envisioning. And like you're saying, like, have that conversation before marriage.
00:03:36
Speaker
have it sooner rather than later. Intimacy is meant to develop, so even if you're not sure what you're going to enjoy sexually, or I think of intimacy as more than just sex, it's our communication, it's how we handle conflict, it's the way we connect, but start with that dream. You know, when I think about being intimate with a life partner, this is what I'm envisioning, this is what I'm desiring, this is what I think I would enjoy or would feel good to me.
Intimacy as Desire vs. Expectation
00:04:05
Speaker
What about you?
00:04:06
Speaker
So start with it being really open-ended, very curiosity-driven, not this is how it's going to have to go, this is the expectation, this is the way, because that's just...
00:04:20
Speaker
timid sword that comes to mind, but it just, it feels very restrictive when you go into it that way. When we have desires, our desires are good, but that doesn't mean they're always going to be met. And that's where we can have some of that give and take conversation, that compromise, that flexibility with intimacy, which if you are married, you know, you have to have flexibility and adaptability when it comes to intimacy.
00:04:46
Speaker
I love that. I love how you totally just flipped. If you're coming at it with expectation, throw it out the window because intimacy is more than just sex. It is about that desire. And I love how you framed that. Like that was beautiful. That was beautiful. Like it is desire and you'll change it and be like, well, I desire this as you know, my life and with my life partner. And that was just,
00:05:13
Speaker
Wow, Rachel, that was really good. That was a nugget. Thank you. That was fantastic because expectation, it's definitely expectation if you flip it and you change it to that desire and even compromise and being flexible.
Flexibility and Compromise in Relationships
00:05:31
Speaker
Sometimes I think, and tell me if you've ever seen this in some of your clients where when you do have those expectations,
00:05:40
Speaker
being flexible or wanting to compromise seems to be really tough because you have like this expectation not only of yourself, but of like your partner or even those around you, including like extended family or friends. And have you ever seen having those conversations and you want to like win the argument? I'm guilty of that. I've had to really change that it's not about winning. It's about understanding each other.
00:06:10
Speaker
But how would you, I guess I'm not quite sure what the question is, but.
00:06:16
Speaker
manipulating into thinking that it's not an expectation that it's like the desire. Do you know what I'm trying to ask? Possibly. Sometimes I feel that there might be manipulation into thinking that it's something that the other desires and how you can kind of manipulate the situation because emotions can be like running high
00:06:42
Speaker
Um, maybe manipulation isn't a great word to say with intimacy, but like, it's also a good word because it does happen. It can happen. And what, like, what, what do you think about that? Well, and let me see if I'm tracking with you. So what I kind of hear is when your partner says, I desire this, there's kind of that undertone of like, do you have to meet that?
00:07:08
Speaker
I don't know if that's what you're hinting at. Yeah, like it's my expectation because I desire this. Whereas when you say flexibility and compromise, it's like, okay.
00:07:18
Speaker
But I guess there's, maybe I'm speaking about boundaries, would you say? It's okay for one to desire this, but it's okay to have a boundary and be like, that's not what I desire. But what if we compromise in this way, or this is kind of how I feel about this. Maybe it's more boundaries. Maybe manipulating was the wrong word. So the boundary of you need to have boundaries and a lot of things.
00:07:46
Speaker
when manipulation goes or goes with boundaries right because people it's hard to respect boundaries especially in a marriage right you say I do or even a long-term relationship you are committing to this person and so you have these desires you want them to be met like that's that's a fair desire to have
00:08:04
Speaker
And it's your desire. It may not be your partner's desire. That doesn't mean you're wrong for each other or you can't make it work, but it's respecting that you both have different desires and needs. And then it is having that conversation. I think the piece that comes to mind too is that you can say the desire right now, right? So you get married and you say, these are my desires when it comes intimacy. And your partner might be like, yeah, I'm not ready for all of that. That doesn't mean that those desires will never be met.
00:08:34
Speaker
It might take some time. They might not be instantly met, but desire can grow between partners and especially with intimacy. It's so vulnerable that we don't, if we can just jump into vulnerability, that doesn't typically go really well. Like we need to slowly open that up and build that. There's a trust that goes with it. So I think it's important for people to realize that intimacy grows, desire grows. So even if your partner says, I'm not interested in that, or I don't want that kind of
00:09:03
Speaker
intimacy with you. It doesn't mean forever. It might mean right now I'm not ready to develop that with you. So it is about respecting boundaries and even if you feel frustrated that there's a boundary that's that's your partner's work to process on. There's a
00:09:24
Speaker
kind of relationship term called differentiation that I've like really dived into recently because I finally understood what it meant thanks to a therapist supervisor who broke it down for me in a way that I could understand it. But
Understanding Differentiation in Relationships
00:09:39
Speaker
it's been really interesting to me because it's really about differentiation is focusing that when your partner brings something to you that it's about them. But what we do is we typically make it about us.
00:09:51
Speaker
or we bring our problem in. And so I think about this is such a good therapy, relational term to use when it comes to desire and intimacy. Because if you can sit and say, my partner is telling me what their desires are, they're telling me what they would like, what they need, can I just explore that and be curious about it?
00:10:11
Speaker
I can have my own feelings, I can have my own thoughts about it, but right now can I just attend and be curious about what this means to them, why it's important to them, why they're bringing this to me without making it about myself instantly.
00:10:25
Speaker
And then you can bring your own thoughts and perspectives, but if you can give them space to be understood first, then you're having a dialogue versus a conflict or a disagreement because you're bringing your part that you feel like pushes against theirs. And then you kind of start rubbing together and friction happens.
00:10:46
Speaker
That's really good, having that, I like how you say that, the dialogue, conversation, because it's true. I think that it's a normal human thing to do, that when someone comes or approaches you with something and you kind of already have a wall set up, especially if it's like, hey, can we talk about something? And you're like, whoa, okay, I gotta be ready. I don't know what's coming, but like you automatically put up that wall, whereas the way that you're describing it,
00:11:14
Speaker
is creating a space to be curious. Kind of like with a kid, right? Where you're like, Hey, I made this dinner. And they look at it and they're like, yeah, no, I'm not eating that. I don't like that. But did you try it? Did you taste it? Like, have like, there's things in it that you do like. That's kind of what it reminds me of. Like, we just kind of, we set that. I already don't like that. But if you haven't been curious and oh, well, I don't know, like,
00:11:39
Speaker
Maybe I could. I think that that's really important. So with that, you also said intimacy is about trust and developing and how those desires change. What would you say if there's been a betrayal within a relationship? And how about trust?
Rebuilding Trust After Betrayal
00:11:59
Speaker
Usually when there's a betrayal, trust feels like it's out the window. It's never going to be back again. And then
00:12:06
Speaker
especially as women, I feel, just because I am one, we like to control what's going to happen after that. So how would you suggest moving about and navigating betrayal?
00:12:20
Speaker
to rebuild trust, if that's something that you and your partner do want. I'm sure that you're going to have a slew of things to say, so I'm so excited. This is like my favorite work to do a couple, so like take it away because I know that that is something that so many struggle with wanting to take control and
00:12:41
Speaker
It's going to be different and then there's a little bit of maybe enabling that happens there. And does that really rebuild trust? Is trust totally gone? Like how, how can we navigate that? Yeah. Well, I love this quote that trust is lost in buckets and it's gained in drops.
00:12:59
Speaker
So when betrayal happens, there's a reason why it takes time. And that's the piece people push against. I don't want to be in this feeling state. I don't want to feel this way. I don't want to be in this moment. And so they try to work so quickly or the forgive and forget mentality, which I don't think works really in any relationship in life.
00:13:21
Speaker
Um, so when I work with couples, whether it's a fair recovery or there's been a betrayal that breaks that trust it's not necessarily infidelity or anything like that. I always let them know like this is a really slow process. It doesn't have to be super slow but sometimes it is really slow.
00:13:38
Speaker
And people really don't like that. They push against it because they're like, I don't want to feel this way anymore. But we have to feel those feelings to move through them to understand what you need, healing, repair, what really will build that trust back up. So that's that first piece is if you have been betrayed, your trust has been broken, you need to just tell yourself like, I've got to move slowly.
00:14:03
Speaker
I have to attend to the emotions that are coming up for me. I've got to be curious about what I need and that that's the work that you have to do and then you have to invite your partner into healing with you if they're open to it. So that is the first part, right? Both of you need to be willing to heal and grow.
00:14:21
Speaker
And I always like to throw out like you can change your mind at any point in the process, because sometimes you get into it and you recognize like, I'm not going to be able to build that trust and that's okay. But you both at least have to be willing to step into the healing process and see where it goes and still have that autonomy to change your mind.
00:14:41
Speaker
So that is that first step. And the reason you have to go slow is because what happens is you have post-traumatic stress disorder, essentially, when you've been betrayed. The thoughts, the feelings, they can come over you so quickly, and those thoughts can be so controlling, right? It's hard to turn them off.
00:15:00
Speaker
So just like Warvets, when PTSD is activated, you have to slow down, you have to self soothe, you got to focus on something that actually regulates your emotions, kind of brings you back down into your body where you can actually feel and be more wise in your reactions. And so that's why the process is so slow, because
00:15:23
Speaker
If you're talking about what broke the trust and what led to this, those feelings get activated so quickly, but the goal is to keep you talking and processing with your partner. And so we have to take lots of breaks. We have to do one question at a time and also focus on like what questions you really need to ask to heal, because there are a lot of questions that can come to your mind, but some of them actually cause you more pain and don't actually allow for that healing.
00:15:52
Speaker
So there's that slowing down process too of like, let's get really clear what questions you need to ask to allow you to heal that you need an answer to. And let's remove the questions that you think might be helpful, but really when you think it through, it's just going to make you feel more pain and doesn't actually allow you to heal. So then let's remove those questions as tempting as they might be to ask. They're really not conducive to healing and repairing for yourself and potentially your marriage or your relationship.
00:16:22
Speaker
That's that first step. I feel like I started to answer your question and got off course. No, I think that was definitely right on course. I love that. I do think that when we do have those questions that come up or those thoughts, I like to call them the unhelpful thoughts and the unhelpful emotions, right? Sometimes when trauma or betrayal happens, because of the work that I also do and working with the unconscious mind,
00:16:51
Speaker
If it's still coming up for you and it's being triggered and then you're bringing up everything from the past, then that's not your partner. That's, that's you. Like there's a work that you need to do. And like, tell me if you're not working on you because you're 100% responsible for you.
00:17:11
Speaker
right? You cannot control what the other person or anyone else around you is going to do. And if you're being triggered by all of the different things, and when you start an argument, or you're trying to heal, and all of the past is coming up, then that's a time to be like, okay, no, I need to stop, and I need to like reflect and take some space.
00:17:31
Speaker
because I obviously have something way before this ever happened that's coming up for me and it has nothing to do with you but yet you're projecting it onto this new situation. Have you ever found that that's the case? Like I found that with my clients that we'll be doing something and then
00:17:49
Speaker
all of a sudden like they're triggered and you're like, whoa, whoa, like let's pause and let's like take a break. Like let's have this space. Cause I say all the time, we need time, space and a little grace. Like it's okay to take time is the time that you need. You can take space. You can remove yourself from the environment and it's, it's really about giving yourself and the other person grace that it's going to
00:18:17
Speaker
It's going to work out the way that it needs to work out by you doing the work, but working together. And I like how you said, inviting them to work with you because it's not one-sided. You could be putting forth so much effort into saving something, but if the other person is not wanting to be a part of it, do you think you should keep investing your time and your energy into something? Or is that where you really need to reevaluate?
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah, and I think about sometimes, you know, a lot of my work is that one partner is, you know, steps ahead than the other person. And so if you're investing that time, it just needs, it needs to be clear, like you are, that's your choice. You are saying, even though this person is not on the same page as me or wanting to do this, I'm still willing to do it, whether they join me or not. I think that's the key part is that
00:19:13
Speaker
We can go into that rescue mentality, but it really has to come down to you saying like this is for me. I want my partner to benefit too, but no matter what I'm going to make this decision for me with the hopes that they might join me at some point. I think about this like I try to get my husband to work out with me all the time.
00:19:30
Speaker
I've learned like it's not going to work if I act like coach or drill sergeant, like he's going to have to come to his own decision of when he wants to work out. I know the benefits, I think it's great for health, but when I'm trying to pull him, I end up presenting him or being so angry. And I think about that the same way in relationships sometimes, you know, whether it's trust building or
00:19:54
Speaker
you've fallen into the personal development world, fallen in, that sounds bad, but you've like dived into that world, right? Like it's encompassed your life and your partner is not really on board for that. It's okay for you to pursue that and to desire that for them, but they've got to come into that desire themselves, right? You might model, you might keep inviting, they might start to watch how it's impacting you and be curious about it, but you cannot force that upon them. Just like if you are the betrayed partner,
00:20:24
Speaker
They may want to heal. They may not be so apologetic for what they did, but you still have that choice to say, okay, I'll heal with you. We can do this rebuilding together. And you also have the choice to say, I can't recover from this. Some people can and some can't. Neither is right or wrong. It just, it really matters that you come to that decision yourself of, am I willing to step into this work? That is painful. It's really hard. It can create something really beautiful.
00:20:53
Speaker
but it's a tough process to get there. I love that, I love that. And that is like perfect. I mean, Rachel, I could talk to you forever. You're definitely gonna have to be a reoccurring guest, but this is beautiful. Like these are the things that I feel are one, I've seen on your Instagram, even that like it's your bread and butter. Like the nuggets that you drop are just like,
00:21:21
Speaker
Just drop the mic, man. And it's perfect because I also saw on your Instagram that you're having a retreat for couples, which would be perfect for rekindling and doing the things
Rachel's Couples Retreat in Cancun
00:21:33
Speaker
that we've been talking about. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yes. So, so much my work is, I like the little phrase, I want to create realistic and sustainable change.
00:21:44
Speaker
There's so much information out there. And when we are in distress or overwhelm, we are like, let's do a fire hose on whatever the problem is, but that's not sustainable long term. So everything I try to do, I like try to break it down into smaller steps of let's just try this and let's break it down into a smaller step. So the retreat is kind of one of those things.
00:22:06
Speaker
Um, I do couples therapy. I do relationship coaching, but sometimes people aren't ready for that long-term commitment, um, that can come with those processes. And so the retreat is kind of like a stepping stone. Um, so it's meant to get away to learn some relationship skills. It's only six hours max for the long weekend. So three hours each day. And then the rest is really focused on intimacy, playfulness and relaxation. So.
00:22:34
Speaker
It's happening May 4th through the 7th, 2023, so we still have like seven months? Feels like it's getting less. But it's gonna be in Cancun. It's at an all-inclusive resort. It's actually two resorts, so the side we're staying on, we actually get access to both, which I think is pretty fun. But it's 15 rooms, so 15 couples can sign up.
00:22:58
Speaker
And we will spend the mornings for a few hours learning some relationship skills that you can repeat for a lifetime because that's a lot of my goal is how do we get you to grow old and gray together. And then the afternoon. Each partner is going to plan a date before they go.
00:23:14
Speaker
And so my hope with this is that they will plan a date that they want to take their partner on, not the date they think their partner wants to go on. Because I believe from my own experience it's really easy to say no to our partners. It's a lot harder to say yes for some reason when we've been together for a while. So I'm trying to bring that theme of we gotta try new things, we gotta say yes sometimes even when deep inside you're like, oh I really don't want to do that.
00:23:40
Speaker
But sometimes we try new things and we're like, oh, that actually wasn't as bad as I was making it out to be. Yeah. And then the evenings can be whatever people want. You can go to your room, get away. You can enjoy the resort activities, events, dinners.
00:23:56
Speaker
everything's there so you don't even have to leave the resort unless you wanted to and it's a long weekend so it's not too long but it's not too short either. So it's gonna be a lot of fun. I'm really excited. I'm anxious a little bit because I have to kind of facilitate but my husband and I are going to go in November to just give a sense of what it's like to be there and help people see what they're kind of signing up for and then we'll be all together in May.
00:24:24
Speaker
that's going to be nerve excited, right? Where you're like, excited. Yeah. It's like, Oh my gosh, this is going to be amazing. Okay. Who's going to sign up? Like, I've been talking to my husband about doing some type of couples retreat. I'm like, but I swear it's not going to be like that movie. Yeah. No, let's do something amazing. That's really going to rekindle. That's really going to like bring us back to being adventurous and just finding that intimacy.
00:24:48
Speaker
between each other and I think it's so beautiful. It makes me so excited. So we're definitely gonna drop the link for that so that people can check it out and sign up and go to Cancun who doesn't love Mexico. I mean, I've never been, but this is a great opportunity to go. Wow, Rachel, just so many amazing things. Where can people find you?
00:25:12
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm pretty active on Instagram it's Rachel elder coaching. So if you're looking for more nuggets, more tips, I try to think about like, what are people needing help with sometimes it's what I've needed help with sometimes it's what I watched in the work I do but I try to make it really digestible.
Where to Find More from Rachel Elder
00:25:30
Speaker
So that's the best place.
00:25:32
Speaker
couples retreat, Rachel at our coaching.com applications. You can film out now. We're going to do like a fun kind of workshop launch on October 1st, then do a free masterclass on unlocking more connection in your marriage and then kind of open the doors to the couples retreat. So if you're looking for like another action step for your relationship, you can sign up for that. You can send me a DM saying ignite and I'll send you all that information, but that's the best way to connect with me. I'm active on there. I'm on Facebook too, but
00:26:02
Speaker
Instagram is, I don't know, it's a little fun and playful and real as frustrating as it can be sometimes. It is fun. And I like seriously, if you're looking for more answers, and if you really want to ignite your relationship and figure out your boundaries and create open communication while still allowing space for yourself and for your partner,
00:26:26
Speaker
You definitely wanna follow Rachel. You're definitely gonna wanna check out her retreat that's coming up because you're not gonna regret it, sister friend. Like seriously, I love Rachel. And we just found each other not that long ago. And she just has amazing tips. So if you were to leave everyone with one last nugget that you really want them to walk away with today, what would it be?
00:26:56
Speaker
only one? Well, you know, I mean, when I say one, it's like 10 books. Yeah. Um, you know, when we were talking before I wrote that nugget that I thought was really great down, we talked a little bit before recording. And so honestly, with that one, so it was something along the lines of
00:27:16
Speaker
If you're with your partner and you're wanting to change, you're wanting to grow, you're wanting to build your relationship, but maybe they don't feel like things need to change or they're not quite ready for that. That reminder that it's okay for you both to be running a different pace on the same race of life or the race of your marriage. It doesn't mean that your partner won't catch up with you or that sometimes they might run ahead of you and you have to catch up.
00:27:39
Speaker
I think people sometimes think we have to be on the same page constantly for this to be a good marriage. And if that was true, most of us would not be married because we all grow and change and develop at our own processes, our own paces. So don't give up hope. Keep inviting. Keep telling your partner why it's important for you guys to grow and change in this way. If your partner is really putting their foot down,
00:28:07
Speaker
that's a little bit different that might be assigned to get some outside help to process that. But sometimes a no is not always a no. So keep inviting, keep modeling. I talk about that a lot in the individuals I work with. Often you can model what you want with your partner and they'll start to get curious because they'll see you're happier, there's a lightness to you, that they'll be like, okay, I want to know what that's about. So don't give up.
00:28:36
Speaker
Marriages are hard. They take work. They take effort. You both grow and change constantly. So keep inviting, keep talking, keep explaining why these desires are important to you, why you want this. And give your partner sometimes that grace that you talked about to join you and potentially step into it when they're ready. I love that. I love that. Yes.
00:29:00
Speaker
That's, see another nugget, round of applause. Round of applause, that was so good. Okay, well, Rachel, I so appreciate you coming and being here with me today. And I'm gonna drop all of the links for everything in the show notes so everyone has an opportunity to see them and to click on them. And there might even be like a little something else in there, you never know.
00:29:23
Speaker
But I really, really appreciate you here today. So thanks for coming on to the podcast of Sex and Motherhood. Thanks Heather. You just finished another episode of the Sex and Motherhood podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Feeling inspired? Go ahead, rate and subscribe so you never miss an episode. Make sure to head over to the show notes for all the links and info on our amazing guests this week.
00:29:49
Speaker
I want to hear your biggest takeaway sister friend, so I invite you to skip on over to Instagram and leave a comment sharing your favorite part at At Sex and Motherhood. And be sure to share with your sister friends too. Meet you here next week!