Open Mic 37: Sting of the Ring feat. Rucker & Sir John Lee

Transcript

Speaker: Who the hell told you tonight was over?

Speaker: Welcome back everyone to a special episode. This is another special episode, not a regular one of open mic with the MVP Marco. I am of course your host, the MVP Marco, and we're going to get right into it. Um, obviously pod foundation, check us out the extra cool show turnbuckle tavern, which I'm also on, uh, the chick Foley show, which I'm also a part of and coming down the aisle with J bone.

Speaker: Definitely check out all those shows, check out all the social medias that are attached to all them. There's gonna be a very special episode. I got two guests with me, two returning guests. Very intellectually stimulating gentlemen in the wrestling area. You know them, you love them.

Speaker: I'm going to bring on Rucker first from boot to the face. What's going on? What's up? You can't be playing on my phone. I know. Oh man, but I'm going to bring on the other guest right away. No introduction. Sir John.

Speaker: What's going on? He was putting us over strong. I strategically said, you know what? That's why I reached out to you guys individually. I said, who? Let me let me find out who, you know, as a as a Sting fan, because the idea behind this episode is, you know, to pick the best Sting gimmick throughout his entire career. And he has he has had multiple gimmicks.

Speaker: And a lot of people don't think about it, but each Sting character had a different persona to it. And a lot of people don't think about that. They think about all just, you know, Crow Sting, and that's all they remember. But there's a couple of the ones that were, you know, obviously in the other organizations he was at. And he played up his Sting role differently in like, you know, WWE as he did in WCW, that type of thing. So we're going to go through that.

Speaker: Yeah, I just want to thank you guys for coming back on. This is a great panel. This is a good looking panel. I mean, that's all that matters, right? You get to get the eyes of the product somehow. Yeah. But so how you got how you both been? Oh, you want to go first on? You go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I've been chilling, man. I've been having fun.

Speaker: you know, watching wrestling, of course, working, you know, making music and stuff still. I'll tell you something interesting when we're finished with all this.

Speaker: Um, yeah, I've just been easy peasy living soft life. Nothing's going on. Now I see that any, um, any plans for, you know, WrestleMania week, I don't even say weekend anymore. It's like an entire week that they do now. So are you heading, are you going down there? Are you staying at home? No, no, no. I'm staying at home this year. Uh, depending on, uh,

Speaker: what they do. It looks like Minnesota's getting it. I might have to. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I was hoping for Vegas, but. Right. Yeah, there was really really back to that. I got I might have to go visit my cousin. In Minnesota, crash in his place and go to because I need to go. I've never been to a WrestleMania. Never been so I need to go. But

Speaker: Not this year. I bet, uh, man, I bet that three WrestleMania is all in a row 28, 29 and 30 capped off after that. I never went back after that kids, obviously family. That'll take you away.

Speaker: I've been to two. I went to that shit show in Atlanta here. Twenty seven. That was just trash, which, you know, since we're talking about Sting, rumor was it was supposed to be Sting and Undertaker. Yeah. WrestleMania. Yeah. And ended up being triple doofus. And so, yeah. And then I went to and then I went to the one in Dallas the last time with Beck. I went to Night One with Becky and Bianca Charlotte and

Speaker: Uh, Rhonda and then stone colds match with KO. Oh, that was a lot of fun. That was one of the best ones right there. Yeah. With, with WrestleMania been two nights now, if you don't go to both nights, it's like a crap shoot. And I got, I got lucky as hell that night. Cause I thought night two was trash. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, definitely night. What was the better of the nights? Yeah. The, uh, that, you know, the main event that second day with, you know, Brock and Roman was.

Speaker: About 10 minutes long. Wasn't good. What are your plans? What's going on with you, Raka? You stay at home? You traveling? Yeah, man. So I was thinking about mania, and then it was in Philly, and I'm like, I don't really want to go to Philly.

Speaker: And rumor was it was supposed to be Vegas next year. Now they're leaning towards Minnesota and I got tagged like four times a day that Vegas will be in 25. So I'm hoping that that's not correct and it'll be next year, but I'm not going to mania. I went to a revolution to see things last match and then.

Speaker: they were here in Atlanta two nights in a row and we got lucky as hell and ended up with front row tickets for collision. So like I'm in there with my bright ass stink pink sting t -shirt in the front row on TV the whole night, which is a lot of fun. I've never sat front row with like a TV tape. And so that was a lot of fun besides like NWA, but that doesn't count.

Speaker: You got to go to NWA shirt. Yeah. When they, uh, when they first relaunched on YouTube with Billy Corgan, we set front row, like the first six episodes or whatever. You can see us out there with Camille and Nick Aldis and all of them. I'm about to go back and watch that. Yeah. Literally just sitting there like causing trouble. Right. Like I got such, I got so many good videos of like shit that was happening on the outside of the ring. It was a lot of fun, but yeah, no, no mania this year.

Speaker: Yeah, the only time I've been front row, like really front row at a show like right at the guardrail was a PWS pro wrestling syndicate back in, I think it was 2013. And it was interesting. I have the DVD of it. It was New Jack's last match.

Speaker: uh and oh man yeah he proceeded to uh yeah it was it was uh he it was him and necro butcher that's who he that's who he uh had the match with uh deals say got crazy uh he almost threw necro butcher on my lap

Speaker: uh everyone like literally if you watch them if you want you can actually go on youtube and watch it i think it's pro wrestling syndicate super show 2013 i think that's the name of it um and it's night two and if you see you see him like yo they're fighting outside you see him throw necro butcher you'll see me just get up out of my chair because he's like almost like falls on me and you literally see just see the whole front row like in a wave just get up and just run

Speaker: run away because they're both obviously leaking blood. Oh, they're using the chairs that were that we that we were sitting on that we can't sit on anymore because they're, you know, beat each other with the chairs and slam each other on the chairs and shit.

Speaker: Yeah, it was fun. I got to see if they played natural one kill us throughout the whole match, which is on repeat. Didn't shut up for once. I've never seen anything like that. Yeah, that's it sounds fun. It was it was it was crazy. I guess I'll see if I can find it. I think I think it is on YouTube. I think it's 2013 night to because it was a two night thing. We went to the second night. I got to see how you should lager face Johnny.

Speaker: Nitro Johnny wrestling, whatever you want to call them because that was pretty sick. But since you, I mean, we kind of like, I wanted to segue cause you said you were at revolution. So, uh, since this is a sting centric show, I wanted to get, uh, get both of your thoughts. We'll start with you, Rucker. You were there in attendance at revolution stings last match fully face painted. I see as well with the

Speaker: I had to. That's the only reason I still got the goatee. I had to shave my beard off for it. My, my girlfriend's like, I kind of like it. And I'm like, well, you let me touch you. So I guess I gotta do what you want me to do. Whatever kind of facial hair you want me to keep. I guess I gotta do it. It was fun, man. It was a lot of fun. Um, I'd never been to Greensboro. Uh, when I was a kid growing up and I'd hear they were there, I always thought it was like some like hillbilly town, you know, but sounds like it. Yeah.

Speaker: It was actually fun. It's like a college town. Like we went out the, uh, the night before and it was some cool bars and stuff like that to go hopping around that, uh, good pregame. And then they had, you know, 16, 17 ,000 people there. It was a lot of fun. We were on the fourth row, uh, extremely pissed off. I didn't get front row had them in my cart.

Speaker: and went to check out and it was like, these are, these seats are no longer available. I'm like, what? And then I see, uh, the next day, I can't, he's a fan, but he wears a referee shirt. I, I'm losing his Twitter name right now. I went and talked to him. Actually the next day he got front row tickets and I'm like, well, shit, but we got fourth row. Uh, we got the souvenir chairs and, uh, we could see everything. There's some really good videos up on, uh,

Speaker: YouTube and our Instagram from that and I probably need to load more because I got some really good ones But it was a lot of fun man and watching the match back on TV It was just as good on TV as it was in person. But in person it was just like I know you're supposed to like lose your last match and all that but I'm just talking like we're not even recording my bad but uh

Speaker: But I was like, you know, it's Sting, like he's gotta win. And then it's like, I don't even like the young bucks. Like Sting got treated like shit in WWE and TNA and they don't like, Tony Khan was like finally getting it right. And I, I will say this anytime anybody asks me, you can say what you want about Tony Khan, but he treated Sting better than anybody I'd ever seen. And that being my favorite wrestler, like I appreciated the hell out of how he treated him. And it was a great, it was a great paper from top to bottom, a little long.

Speaker: Little long. Yeah, definitely. But yeah, it was and I listened to Chick Foley and and heard Seth and his son and everybody were there. So they were there. Their stuff was accurate, too. It was kind of like a lull through the middle of it because everybody was kind of saving it for the end. And it was just that from that entrance to Darby diving through the ropes to the very end, like it was standing room only.

Speaker: Are you, uh, as a, as a fan of sick, are you happy with this, with the, with this being his final match and, you know, him going out on his shield, as they say, happy him being his final match. Yes. And no, no, because I'm selfish and like, I want my favorite wrestler to keep wrestling forever. But like, we got like an extra.

Speaker: three years that we didn't think we were gonna get out of Sting when he left WWE. And it's been like the most fun too, right? And then -

Speaker: I'm an adult now instead of a child so I can actually go travel. Like I saw him at Dublin, nothing in Jacksonville. I saw him at revolution in Orlando. Uh, he's been in Atlanta a couple of times. I went to, uh, which one is in Chicago all out. I went to all out and saw him. And then, you know, to see his last match here, like I've probably seen him live more times in the last three years than I have in my entire life. And yeah, it's just, it's just been fun. I'm glad.

Speaker: I'm glad he won. I'm glad it ended the way it did. It was perfect. You couldn't ask for a better ending to a career in wrestling. What about you, John? What are your thoughts on staying his last match?

Speaker: Uh, Rucker, it's like, selfishly, it was like, once the match was over for me, I was kind of, I was really sad. I'm not going to lie. I was watching it. That's why I wore face paint. Did you get, did you get any, uh, camera time? Did they give you the camera time? Like at least not that I've seen and nobody's told me about it, but, and I was in the fourth row. So.

Speaker: Okay. But yeah, I was really sad. Like first it was like, like when, when he was coming out and he had the entrance with his sons. Yeah. That whole thing. It was like, I didn't, I don't know for whatever reason, it didn't feel like, Oh, this is the end. This is his last match. It was like, okay, this is just, you know, he's about to do like a couple of more of these like, and he looks so good. He looks in good shape in a, like, I just liked the whole story element of, of it all. Like,

Speaker: I feel like they kind of, I don't know, this might sound crazy, but I feel like they kind of went through his whole career in that match. It feels like to me, I don't know. That might just be me being here. I could see that. For me, I didn't really

Speaker: I didn't really notice the young bucks like that match. And I know Garvey had his spot where he went through the glass, but I didn't really, the focus was on him and him alone. And, uh, and then when his sons hit the splash and all that, and I was like, wait a minute, like they were getting some air and all that. And it was just really cool. And then when it was done, it was done and it was like,

Speaker: no anymore anymore like but just for me like i pay attention to like weird stuff like i told you before but like it just felt like

Speaker: We were just seeing the whole thing like starting from the beginning and then we saw the ending and then that was it. And I really feel like he got a couple more matches, but he felt like it was his time. So yeah, you said we didn't think we were gonna get all this.

Speaker: you know, I didn't think we would ever even see him in WWE, let alone in this company that comes out of nowhere. I didn't expect that to come and then he's in, he's there too in AEW. So like, uh, yeah, it's just staying is the, uh, I think we talked about it before, but

Speaker: the very first, one of the very first matches I saw, it was either Sting versus Flair or Brett or the Heart Foundation versus somebody. And I can't remember which I saw first, but that was in the first batch. So, and he, I believe he had the blue and white in that match where he won

Speaker: Uh, yeah. Sting when he beat, uh, Rick flair for the first time. So like for me, that's probably why, cause I'm attaching it to things from my childhood. Like we, I pretty much got to, uh, witness his whole career. So like, it was, it was crazy. Like I, like we got,

Speaker: it was like a shock surprise. Like we got more out of him than we would ever expect. And that's really cool. Like you forget that he's in his sixties. Yeah. You forget all of that stuff. Like you forget the injury that he had. It was just like, what it was so real. Yeah. The, uh, I actually just like build it up. And what you said, it definitely did feel like the young bucks were kind of like, uh,

Speaker: like a backdrop to Sting. You definitely get that feeling watching it on TV. Like, I'm not sure if it was like that in person, but you definitely got that feeling. It was like, like you said, it was all about Sting. Like, I think you kind of think it's, you know, it was kind of like his whole story because you got the Ric Flair. Ric Flair was in the dance there. And then you got Ricky Steamboat.

Speaker: who's also in the, so it's almost like a, like you seem like the nod throughout his, you know, his kind of like his career within that, within that match. I think they kind of did that purposefully, but I wanted to ask you guys about the Darby spot because that seemed to get a lot of contention

Speaker: uh amongst wrestling fans you know obviously we gotta our wrestling fans are gonna argue about everything even if it's something that looks cool they're still gonna argue about it uh we'll start with you uh johns uh like what were your thoughts what are your thoughts on the the spot that you

Speaker: Did it affect you as much as everyone else or did you just think it was cool? I just thought it was cool. And then I got on Twitter and then I saw everybody. That was so unsafe. That was so unsafe. And then I saw the pictures of the aftermath and I was like, you know what, it might have been. But then when I watch it again, it just looks like one of the coolest things ever. I feel like they're professionals.

Speaker: And they know their limits. And sometimes, yeah, I feel like they do go over. They try to shock us. But that's what they want to do. That's their bodies. They're here to entertain us. And we like blood and glory. We want to see all that stuff.

Speaker: It are the people saying that it's unsafe. Are they right? Maybe. I don't know. How did Darby feel afterwards? I mean, if it was unsafe, you wouldn't have done it. That's the way I look at it anyway. I feel like he's the professional. So he knows like, you know, I mean, it wasn't staying doing it. So I mean, he wasn't going through the glass. I mean, so what about you, Raka? You were you were there in person.

Speaker: Well, Sting did go through the glass. Oh, that's right. No, he did go through the glass. Yeah. And to me, to me, if people were going to complain about something, it would have been that one because when he went through it, that glass shot out into the crowd. Yeah. On our Twitter account, like the day after we retweeted one of it was a lady. She's got a video in it and she's in the corner. Yeah. And when he hits it, you just see all this glass like coming at them, which I thought was crazy that they would do that.

Speaker: as far as Darby, like Darby's been doing this shit for years. Like, you know, you know, what's weird is Darby takes the most ridiculous risk in AEW and he's been injured probably the least out of everybody. That's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And so when, when they brought the glass out, I was like, Darby's going through that. Like, you know,

Speaker: could they have taken him out of the match in a different way? Probably, but you needed to eliminate him so you could have all the staying comebacks that happened in like the last five minutes. Like, yeah, because honestly, I thought he was going to lose. And every time he kicked out, like I became a little stinger, like more and more every time I'm extremely, I think I was beating on my chest at one point. Like, and so, I mean,

Speaker: I don't know, man. I don't know how I feel about it. Like I think it was dumb to use real glass and do something like that. But like you're you're grown man, you know, you make your own decisions freaking out. Yeah. I'll say it. I see a punk was right. Is that where I'll say it? I will never fucking say that. I would never say that right about something. So probably write about the young books is about it.

Speaker: This is funny. This is funny because I've never met a person who like doesn't like the young bucks and doesn't like see a point. I don't like either one of them. That contention for war like you, you got to like one of them. Yeah, that's yeah. It seems like that. You can't just be, you know, I hate both. I hate all three of them. You get to pick one side or the other. That's how it usually is with them guys. But so before we get into the tournament, we'll start with you, Rucker.

Speaker: overall thoughts on Sting's career? Just a lot of fun. I think I would love to tell you the year, but I can't remember that far back. But I think when I was on your show last time, I told you, like, I remember running in the house thinking WWF was on and my cousins were watching NWA. Yeah, I remember that.

Speaker: That was, he was the guy that I saw when I was about to quit. I was like, whatever, this is trash. And then like the rock and roll music started playing and he walked out and I was just like, ever since then been a fan. I feel like he's had the, he's had a weird career, right? Like he's been the guy, but like he always gets pushed to the side for the newer Cheyenneer toy. Like Flair's always there or Vader or then, you know, the immortal racist shows up.

Speaker: And then the NWO happens and then he goes to WWE and it's Triple H and Seth Rollins. And then he goes to, when he was in TNA, they were bringing in like Angle and Mick Foley and all these guys. And through all of that, like he was just the guy through the whole time, multiple time world champion. Honestly, he could have been bigger than what he was had. Hogan not did what he did at Starrcade and stuff like that.

Speaker: Oh, man. Yeah, he's just just a really good, like, and for him to be the one to outlast everybody when he didn't even want to be a wrestler and he was like a bodybuilder and they walked into the gym and told him he should wrestle. He outlast, you know, a warrior, obviously, passed away a couple of years ago, outlasted Hogan and Flair.

Speaker: all these guys that can barely walk now and this guy's jumping off a fucking ladder still in 2024 like stuff he wasn't even doing in the 90s like you never saw him jumping off of stuff he might jump over the top rope that was about it and all these years later he's still killing it while they're watching so yes

Speaker: think he always had that edge to to him though for some reason I always I always thought he had that like type of like he wanted to do that type of stuff like the Mick Foley you know landed on the pavement that and like he seemed like that type of like like character like the I mean like the stuff that he he seemed like he wanted to do that stuff but I don't think obviously you know you want the longevity you don't want to you know yes was probably his plan

Speaker: surface thing was kind of a pretty boy, but like yeah, he could mix the shit up when like him and Jake Roberts and him in cactus Jack and Vader like if you ever listen to Steve Austin interview Vader on his podcast if you can ever find it and he talks about staying and he's like my career wouldn't have been anything if sting wouldn't have

Speaker: did what Shawn Michaels wouldn't do, which was just pull me to the side and talk to me and be like, yo, that's not how we do it here. This is how we do it. And he gave Sting all the props in the world for, and I remember as a kid being like, oh my God, baby's got to kill Sting. Oh man. John, what are you, what are your thoughts on staying in his career? And yeah, I think,

Speaker: It's interesting because there are some things that we wanted as fans, obviously, from him. For me, we wanted Undertaker versus Sting. I wanted Sean versus Sting.

Speaker: And when you really look at the career, you look back, he's just been solid. He's consistent. And like you said before, he's the guy who didn't really want to wrestle. And I've heard stories of people saying, he takes this as a job. This is his gig to get paid. So whatever you want to do, we're going to do that. I've never heard about him politicking or

Speaker: No, we got to do it this way. So he's one of my favorites. He's in my top five as... I have multiple top fives because you got to separate it because there's your guys as kids, but the guys who I was liked as kids remain at the top. Sting is one of those guys. The first time I saw him was against Flair on these tapes that my dad had.

Speaker: And then fast forward later, I don't know what, I was watching WWF at the time, like the new generation, but we finally got cable.

Speaker: and we turn it on and my dad's like, oh, go to TNT and Nitro's on and he's fighting Scott Steiner. I just posted about it. This is the first time I've ever seen a WCW match. And like, he's like, that's staying. And I'm like, what happened to the bleep? It's like he looked different before.

Speaker: And then, you know, time pass and then he's doing, you know, the, he's not down with WCW or NWO thing. And like, he's, he got the white face pain. We got, I got to see the evolution of that to where he's full on crow sting. And I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I liked that he didn't wrestle. I liked that he just sitting in the Raptors and he'll come down and beat up NWO. That was the highlight of my Monday night stone cold.

Speaker: beating up Vince and staying beaten up the NWO. The highlight of my life during that time and some of my favorite moments were Starrcade although you know

Speaker: it was weird. But as a kid, I didn't really like, I was like, Oh, he, they just, they just, that's Nick Patrick just being the Patrick, you know, save the day, save the day. And this isn't going to happen. There's no screw job. And I was like, yes, he finally beat the WWE, finally got the title. And then when he, when, you know, Wolfpack and

Speaker: Black and white were going at it. And when he finally joined the Wolfpack, big, big explosion for me blew my mind. And then when Warrior came back to WCW, I have a whole story about that night. But him tagging up with Sting and me not knowing that they were tag team partners before was really cool on mine. And I was like, oh, the face paint, that makes sense. And they're going against Hogan.

Speaker: Brett, and then fast forward some more because there's some, you know, life is weird and you forget stuff and then seeing him and ready to rumble and hearing about then hearing about him and TNA but not being able to see it then finally seeing it is like, Whoa, what is this? This is crazy. It's like,

Speaker: a whole different thing going on. And then like when those cryptic messages was popping up and WWE around. Oh my God. And I was like, wait, that sting, that sting coming. And then, you know, it didn't happen. And I was bummed.

Speaker: you know, when he finally did came as the vigilante, and they try to act like he wasn't really a part of the WWE, they wouldn't announce a right or anything. And like, even though he lost, he shouldn't have lost, he shouldn't have lost at WrestleMania.

Speaker: Well, my takeaway is that Undertaker and Stig were at that WrestleMania. It could have made that match happen. I didn't want to see it by that time. I didn't want to see it because once the streak was over, it was like.

Speaker: whatever, that's a lost situation. And Undertaker's performance against Brock was kind of weird to me. So I was like, I don't know if I want to see that at my point. But yeah, I'm just going through all the memorable moments. And then when he pops up at AEW and I was like, dude, they're about to destroy the WWE. WWE is about to be over. WWE was wack at that time. It was trash. They weren't having a good product. And I was like, they got stinging too?

Speaker: Come on. But yeah, a well -storied career. I don't know if there's any other athlete that we could compare Sting to. I have a comparison for different wrestlers with their impact, but I don't think anybody in any other sport has impacted their sport the way Sting did in the influence

Speaker: and the way he has that rapport with the kids and everything. I don't think anybody in any other genre of anything, music, sports, anything is like Sting. He's just so

Speaker: solid, dependable. Like if you want to see a good match, you can watch him. If you want to do the story stuff, you can watch him. If you want to, you know, like see just a decent squash, anything like that.

Speaker: but yeah, I'm done rambling. No, man, that's like, it's, you know, the great thing about like, I was just, as you both are talking to that, I was like, the great thing about Sting is that you got to grow with him. Like you said, like you guys are little when you see him and now you're older and you get to see him off and stuff like that. And it is hard. It is going to be hard to like compare him to like a lot of, you know, different athletes out there. Like the closest you could probably come to is maybe like Jericho.

Speaker: but even Jericho isn't as, you know, iconic, no pun intended as, as sting is like, I was going to say that status. I was going to say while you were saying it, it's going to sound crazy, but, but give me a chance to explain it. I was thinking LeBron. Cause LeBron's play for so many different teams and every year, every year there's a new,

Speaker: shinier toy that comes along where they want to replace LeBron and he's not the best and you never hear anything bad about him off the court. Everywhere he goes, he's still the man even though they still try to bring him down. He should have won more than he did, just like Sting.

Speaker: And yeah, and he's at the end of the day, when he finally does leave, save LeBron goes on his retirement tour next year. You'll probably see the same way you saw Sting where they'll just come out of the woodwork and realize like, Oh shit, like he's leaving. Like we, we haven't really gave him his flowers the way we should have all these years. And now it is leaving. You're like, Oh shit, like LeBron's leaving.

Speaker: That's a good one. I didn't think of that one. I didn't even think of that one. You can do the same thing. They, you know, they always compare LeBron to like Jordan and, you know, all the like magic and like all the, all the older, you know, era guys and say they would sing. They were comparing him to Ric Flair and comparing him to Hulk Hogan and comparing him like who he's good at. Hey man, that's actually, I never thought of that sting in LeBron James. LeBron James is the sting of the NBA, dude. That's pretty good.

Speaker: We just needed to get some face paint and just hang out with the Raptors and not play any games for the Lakers. Just sit out till his son gets there. And then he'll jump in and play with his son. But another thing I was actually thinking of when you forgot, as you were going through John, his accolades, he was also a spokesman for Sprite.

Speaker: Oh Yeah, I didn't know that that was Sprite it did say Sprite yeah

Speaker: So, yeah, I mean, Sprite, great spokesman kicking, kicking the shit out of kids that you probably couldn't do that nowadays, but had a couple of movies to it. A lot of people like there was a TNT movie where he was a cop. That's right. I had on VHS that I recorded. He had a movie on. You remember the little black boxes? Joe had the black box to watch paper. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker: He had a movie that came out on pay -per -view where he was like this big dumb fuck, him and his brother. And they wanted to open a business, a restaurant together. And he was just, and they were all like after the same girl. It was the dumbest movie in the world. But I was like, stings on TV. Like, I'm watching this. Like, even at movie shutter speed on TNT, like it wasn't the greatest movie in the world, but I watched it like 30 times.

Speaker: What was it? Was it like a comedy or a drama? The one where he was trying to get a restaurant, it was like a rom -com. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it was one chick. And it was Sting, his brother, and another guy. And they were all vying for the same woman. She was just playing them all.

Speaker: And then of course you had thunder and paradise that he was on like, yeah, that's right. Yep. He was the bad guy. And that was, you know, he outshined the mortal races. I thought would act.

Speaker: It's a great name Yeah, let's uh, let's get into the tournament. So they said it's eight eight gimmicks I'm gonna start it. I think I'm gonna start this off pretty pretty hard. It's called sting of the ring That's the name of the uh, the tournament playoff of king of the ring obviously And the first first matchup we have for sting is surfer sting obviously started in 1987 ended around 1995 we'll say and then versus

Speaker: Oh, why would you start? First matchup is going to be hard. So we got surfers thing. Which which crow thing? Because there's so many crows. Crows thing that he did from ninety seven. Ninety six. Ninety six to ninety seven. We'll see. Oh, man. Versus surfers thing from eighty seven to ninety five. So they give a few things. Longevity with the surfers saying, you know, establishment.

Speaker: Like I said, I've started off, started off hard just to see where, where your heads are at. I'm going to go off pure bias. I'm going to go with pure bias. It's Crow state for me. Okay. Uh, I love suffer sting, but I wasn't watching WCW regularly during that time. Cause it was what they have Saturday night, Saturday night. And, um,

Speaker: And they had the pay -per -views and the wrestling clash. And the only time I got to really see him was through tapes that my cousin, my god brother, or my dad was sharing, or my neighbors. And it would just be the matches. There was no stories. So I didn't know of any of the feuds or anything. I would just see a Matt Sherry with Vader, a Matt Sherry with Cactus Jack, that weird,

Speaker: electric chair mattress. Oh, the butcher. And I forgot who Jack was in that to show on that too. We'd check fully. We did a watch along. We did like a commentary on what the hell was it called? I forgot. It was a chamber. It wasn't chamber. I don't think it was. I think it was just electric called electric chair match.

Speaker: Yeah, I was like, it was staying cactus, Jack Abdul, the butcher, somebody else. It was a bunch of people. Or was it the stylist? I think it was an Lex. Yeah, they had the, I think the ref cam was on that too. They had with the, I liked, actually they should bring that back. The ref cam where they have like, Oh, the referees had the cameras on their heads and they were inside the right now. It was actually pretty sick, but

Speaker: But I'm going off of pure bias. I love the matches. I love the look. I love the pants, the paint, and everything. But I didn't know too much about the guy. But hosting, I'm sitting there every Monday night seeing him being sad and depressed because his friends at WCW didn't believe him and thought he betrayed them and then watched him prove himself.

Speaker: come out with the bat and just sitting in the Raptors and the whole little doo -doo -doo -doo with the children doing the voiceover. So it was like, I didn't see him wrestle until Hogan.

Speaker: I just thought that was the coolest thing ever. Because that was my second favorite storyline growing up. And my first was the Kane Undertaker. So I'm into that. I'm into that. I'm into the whole the mystery and the smoking mirrors and the coming down. I don't think anything beats that ever. He came from the Raptors. He's sitting up in the Raptors.

Speaker: the Phantom of the Opera. He comes down, saves a friend every now and then, nobody could beat him. He's OP. The whole NWO's, even the big guys like Nash Hall, Macho Man, Hogan, they're, you know, making him look good. You know, so story wise,

Speaker: And every, all the elements, I got to go with crow. Like it's, it's a bias though. I know. Like if somebody else explains surface thing, they'll probably be like, okay, okay. I get it. But for right now, it's just a bias. What's your choice? Crosting was a vibe. Like you would watch three hours and 12 minutes of nitro.

Speaker: Just for like just for that three minutes of scenes, but and you never knew when it wasn't like It wasn't just the end of the show like he might show up in the middle he might show up between like 9 and 9 15 you had to watch all of nitro to see it and It was just it was fun right but surface thing

Speaker: Like I put a list out of top, my favorite top 10 staying matches of all time. And I think like six, maybe even seven of them were surfacing. Like.

Speaker: matches with the great muda and flare and vader and rick root all storylines like sting squad versus the dangerous alliance like all the feuds and everything he had cactus jack and jake the snake roberts like The list just goes on and on all the the four horsemen all the world titles anyone One of my favorite tag matches of all time sting and luger versus the steiner's at super brawl too like you know just

Speaker: so good. So if I ever have to pick between Crow and surface, it's service thing hands down, but Crow's thing was, was vibe. Like, that's, that's the thing he's been playing since a variation of it since like 96. So for almost 30 years, but to me, like you don't,

Speaker: You don't get it. When he came limping back at Clash of the Champions to fight Rick Roode and they like met on the stage and started throwing hands, like, you don't get that crow sting. You know? Yeah, it sounds like the body of work was established with crow sting. Like, it sounds like that's where you get all the real sting from. Yeah. The full package with

Speaker: with the surfers thing. So like, for example, John, like you didn't see surfers thing in real time, right? No. So for a fan like you, you saw a crow sting and you saw like, he's kind of brooding and quiet and all that. I bet if you went back and like watch storylines with surfers thing, you'd be like, this ain't the same fucking guy. Like the fact that he played too,

Speaker: at least two different characters that were like polar opposites of each other and got both of them over is like very underrated in wrestling where people, I don't think people talk about it enough. Yeah, no, definitely not. Yeah. Like I said, I'm going to be the tiebreaker here and definitely go with, with surfacing. Sorry. Crow sting. I was going to walk off. If you pick crow sting, I was going to leave. You're going to do this. This is going to be two of y 'all. Yeah. Cause it's, it's, you know, obviously without surfacing, there is,

Speaker: You know, there's no crow. There's no crow because he has it transformed. There was a there was a period in between. I was going to put it on there as a part of the bracket, but I figured I shortened the bracket up because I knew we were going to be talking a little bit at the beginning. But there was a there's a period it's called like pre -crowsing. Yeah. So where he had like the he he he wasn't dying to say anymore. He's letting it grow out.

Speaker: long and he was still rocking the face paint he's so rocking the colors but there was kind of like that transition period where he was kind of like you know slowly getting into the the crow character but obviously we didn't know was was going on until the story is scott hall walked up to him and said hey right you see that movie the crow and then that's how it started but uh but like marco

Speaker: You would know this better than me. As far as I know, there's only one action figure staying in surface thing gear with dark hair, or are there more of them? Because I have the one. He's wearing black tights. Yep, the black tights with the green boots. Is it the big clunky? No, it's the Mattel. Mattel. I think it's a basic. Is it elite?

Speaker: No, so I have it. So basically I have the so what they did was they came up with a three. And this is why I picked surface think is that that's in particular, because I'm also a figure collector. So it was a three pack. It was the the team. It was it was it was a six man tag. It was it was macho man staying in Lex Luger versus who would be the outsiders minus their third member. So it was an elite three pack with all three of them. And that's what that one came with, the dark hair. He had the dark

Speaker: so then there's two of them because i have one where he's got orange boots okay yeah so there's two it's a basic that i i've got loose that he's got orange boots so there's two okay cool yes i have yeah i didn't even think of that one yeah they have a yeah it's an elite three pack they all have face paint it's you know contraband has distinct face paint luger has a distinct face paint because they're all you know going into war against you know the outsiders and they don't know who the the third man is obviously at the time and then

Speaker: We find out it was the as as record calls of the immortal racist. AEW AEW really missed the boat by not coming out with a three pack for Sting, Darby and Punk. Yeah, they should. And they really got to get on that because if they come out with a three pack with Edge Darby and Sting with the white jackets and like the whole nine, like because that was a dope look that they had. Yeah, I think they need to come out with something like that before

Speaker: before it's too late but oh yeah sorry i didn't mean i didn't mean to go down a figure thing but uh but yeah so uh no but yeah definitely surface thing like i said it's you know he's when i think of sting obviously you know i think i think i think it's surface thing i think of you know the bleach blonde hair the the bright colors it's it's like me with like you know ultimate warrior like obviously not the greatest guy you find out later on in life but back then the face paint

Speaker: the neon colors, the tassels, the energy running down. And Sting had that same energy. Him and Warrior are pretty much the same, but obviously Sting was more athletic than Warrior. He could pull off a drop kick and he could do other things that Warrior couldn't do. So I always appreciated Sting a little bit more, but they had the same look. They were almost like complementing each other.

Speaker: Like on different brands, like they're both rocking the same gimmick and they kind of like, it was kind of like to me, it was kind of like a nod to each other. Like I see you over there. You're doing your thing. I'm over here. I'm doing my thing, but we're going to, I'm going to keep the warrior face paint sort of, but like, I'm going to change it up a little bit. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. I was going to say, and they both, uh, unless I'm remembering wrong 1990.

Speaker: Warrior beat Hogan at Mania, Sting beat Flair at Great American Bash. They both became champions within a couple months of each other by beating the guys of the 80s then. Yeah, they're like the faces of those respective companies at the time. Yeah, that's crazy. Big what if that I play in my universe mode every time WWE game come out? What if Sting was in the Federation?

Speaker: stuff like that always stuff like that bothers me. I think about it too. Oh man, but I think we'll go with it. We're going to go with an easier one. I think this might be easier to, to, to decide. Uh, we're going to go with a more recent as they call him hooligans thing. Cause obviously his ties with, uh, with Darby Allen. So hooligans thing versus main event mafia sting.

Speaker: Oh, that is not easy. What are you talking about? Easier. I like the main event mafia sting. Are you serious? We got a heel sting. Finally. I loved every second. I'm so mad. I never got a main event mafia t -shirt.

Speaker: And now all these years later, I can never find one. And it's hard. Yeah. It's definitely get ahead of one of those, uh, bootleg. There's a bunch of those bootleg, like T -shirt guys. Maybe you can like reach out to one of them and say, Hey, can you make a bootleg version of, I thought main event mafia was the coolest shit in TNA. Like they had me tune in, especially the first iteration. The second time it was kind of like watered down. Cause they put Samoa Joe and Nick Aldis and everybody in there.

Speaker: But when it was Sting, Booker, Kevin Nash, obviously Kurt Angle and Scott Stein. And they were out there in suits and Sting was a bad guy. Yeah, they tried to make him a bad guy in WCW, but, you know, hogging through a temper tantrum and all the plans got washed again. Yeah. Seems like that happens a lot. Every time Sting's going to do something huge, Hogan throws a fucking fit.

Speaker: You think you would've thought Sting was black the way Hogan was hatin'. But, man. He was wearing black, so maybe that's why he's crosing at the time, so maybe that's why he...

Speaker: I'm going to reluctantly pick hooligan sting just because I saw him so many times live and like just nostalgia of seeing sting live so many times over the last couple of years. Um, but main event mafia sting was, was my guy though. I'm gonna have to agree with you hooligan, hooligan sting.

Speaker: because we weren't supposed to get this. So it's special. It's even more special than, you know, and main event mafia was awesome though. Like we came in, but I feel like for me, I was probably more distracted by like Booker T and both in Napa when I'm Scott Steiner and all the shenanigans going on. But yeah, hooligan, hooligan sting for sure.

Speaker: do the great one of the funniest things that you'll probably see this clip. I'll have to try to find it. Maybe we could share it. But one of the greatest clips is Booker T. I think it was made. I think you saw it made a bit mafia. Oh, yeah. I already know what you're about to say. Yeah, he was doing commentary while he's in the ring.

Speaker: I was glad there wasn't a tiebreaker because

Speaker: I may have what would be an event mafia singer. You guys are the one anyway, because made it a mafia thing, like you said, was we actually got a heel, a heel version of Sting. And we did kind of later on a little bit. I mean, not really a version, but in TNA, if you want to call it that, more of a more of a like a chaotic sting. He did kind of turn heel before main event mafia. I forgot about that when he like.

Speaker: beat up Eric Bischoff with a bet and attack RVD and all that. Yeah. I did. Okay. I forgot about all that, but main event mafia's thing was cooler than that one. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Um, so we're going to move on, uh, to the, to the next bracket. We have, don't kill me. Wolfpack sting versus insane icon Joker sting.

Speaker: So if you don't know who Insane Icon Joker Singh is, that is when he just completely went batshit crazy. And he pretty much became the Joker in TNA, which I personally love, because he showed his range right there. He went from being this high energetic, Dion, pants, all this stuff in the 90s, to a brooding, not speaking much character, and then obviously made of him mafia.

Speaker: He just, you know, the Joker Sting, the Icon Joker Sting, just a crazy, just like, just like the, he was literally the Joker. It wasn't even like Sting. He like played into it so well. And it's usually like the nicest guys play into those like heel characters the best. And they play him the best. And he, I thought he was amazing at that. So, but I'll let you guys decide Wolfpack Sting versus Icon Joker Sting.

Speaker: This one's hard. Both of them. I think they both lasted around the scene. Actually, no joke. Insane Joker saying it was a lot longer. Okay. So Wolfpack Sting probably had one of my favorite crows thing looks when he had the NWO and the red Scorpion. And then one night at Halloween Havoc, he had a goatee and he didn't paint over it. And I thought that was the coolest fucking look. And then,

Speaker: when Bret Hart turned on him and he and the Wolfpack showed up at Monday Nitro and just were wrecking shit the whole night and him and Bret Hart had like a street fight all the way through. Like that was one of the coolest things too. Um, but

Speaker: I wasn't really a fan of tomato face thing. He still joined the NWO. I was kind of like, yeah, they were the cool kids. It was cool to see him kind of get a little surface thing back. But at the end of the day, it was still like, you're NWO, though, dog. What are you doing? You're supposed to be a WCW guy.

Speaker: And so it didn't last that long. And Joker's thing was just a character. Like I talked about, I would tune in to Nitro just to see the three minutes. I tuned in to TNA to see Joker's thing was like so much fun. And he was beating hell out of Hulk Hogan, so. Yeah. He's like torture. Got my vote. He can't argue with that. Oh, man. I don't know. This was a little hard.

Speaker: To me, because I want to say Wolfpack Sting, but it didn't really last that long. And there wasn't much going on, I would say. Not too much. Because I feel like that's during the time when it was kind of falling off. And then when the finger poke of doom happened,

Speaker: Yeah. It felt like he was gone even before then. Yeah, he got hurt. He got hurt. Yeah. So, uh, but Joker Sting, I didn't get to watch that, but I did get to like watch clips and I binged a bunch of clips over the years on YouTube and stuff or stuff that my friends would send. And I just thought like, Oh, he's acting.

Speaker: Yeah. Cinema. He's in his bag. So I hate to do this. It's a little fact state because I loved it when he turned and everything. That was a big part of my childhood, 1998. Yeah. Joker Sting. Joker Sting.

Speaker: I will say Wolfpack Sting was the first guy that you thought Goldberg was going to lose against on a random, a random fucking nitro match where he was just, he was whooping Goldberg's ass. That was the first time somebody had like got the upper hand on Goldberg and I was like, whoa, like Sting might win. And then of course he didn't because interference and all that, but

Speaker: And I felt like they never followed up with that either. They just had a random match on nitro sting. Whoop Goldberg's ass and lost cause of interference. And then they just moved right on. Yeah, I think it was it. Yeah, I've given him enough shout outs. I was just saying interference, you know? Yeah.

Speaker: People don't think I don't like that guy for some reason if it was What do you know what do you do I don't know Oh My god, all right. All right last last bracket before we get to the final four is um, I

Speaker: Icon sting so basically, you know TNA impact icon sync so him coming in from around 2003 I think like 2008 and then obviously from 2008 was main event mafia and then so on so forth was Joker so this is beginning so this is icon sting coming into TNA and versus Vigilante sting

Speaker: from WWE 2014 to 2015, which is kind of funny. He was there for a year, which is that's kind of insane to me. Well, a little bit of over a little bit of a year, but but yeah, we'll go with those. So we'll go with those two. So icon sting versus vigilante singing. I think this might be a pretty easy thing. It's that hard at all, but I could be wrong. Oh, maybe I am wrong. Those would be easier.

Speaker: because a WWE state was hard because once again, it's one of those things where it's a, it's more of a special attraction because he's never, ever been in WWE, never, ever thought he was going to come and he's finally here. And he's at WrestleMania and he's mixing up at, uh, with, uh, the younger guys and Seth Rollins. But I think

Speaker: I think the potential outweighs the actual, you know, delivery of it though, because of how it ended. But I don't, you know what? It's hard. I thought it was going to be easy, but I guess we're going to be WWE bias. I'm going to go with, I'm going to go with WWE sting. Oh, okay. Vigilante sing. Vigilante sting. So he had, um,

Speaker: There was good moments in WWE. You just look at the fact that he lost to Triple H at Mania and - Yeah. When he lost to Seth Rollins, Seth had literally wrestled John Cena and lost seconds before that and Sting comes out and Seth beats him. But you look at the moments like Survivor Series when he debuted was really good. He came out and saved Randy Orton one night out of nowhere.

Speaker: And then you thought he was gone, and they were presenting Seth Rollins with that statue. I don't remember that. And when the statue came up and it was Sting, that's probably one of the biggest - Yeah, that's probably one of the biggest pops you heard in WWE in years. So like - Especially during that time. Yeah, he had really good moments, but I can't go with WWE Sting, besides the elites that were created when he signed on.

Speaker: you know, the video, when he, when he was revealed in the video game and people thought he was actually there, they were so fucking mad. Y 'all remember that night on raw? Yeah. I didn't know that that was the, uh, how they was feeling that raw, but I saw the trailer at home and I was like, yo, I was freaking out.

Speaker: I remember that being a thing that like people thought he was there at raw. And when it was revealed to be a video game, they started booing like, what the hell is this? Like we thought Sting was here. And they were like, no, dawg, it's just WW2K. But icon Sting and TNA wins for me. I got to see him and Kurt Angle at Bound for Glory in Atlanta in 07, I think it was.

Speaker: And that alone does it. So damn icons thing. I didn't want this to be a tiebreaker at all. I was hoping you guys would both agree. You said it was going to be easy, Marco. You know what it's hard to say because you can be bringing up the good points about, you know, vigilante staying with, you know, debuted at Survivor Series, you know, you know, Dolph Ziggler being that like last, the very last survivor. Yep.

Speaker: That match was long. Stare now at Triple H at that moment too. Like, holy shit, he's actually in the ring. And then have given us the death drop, dude. Sick. And then obviously the moments after that.

Speaker: a bunch of figures like you said they literally just made every single sting figure you could figure you could think of uh his you know the defining moments with the you know him winning the title with the red white and blue the i have the white well my son destroyed it but i had the white pants saying with the uh green boots the blonde hair

Speaker: the green jacket i had to cut the green jacket off of them and i'm so mad that i did that yeah because i yeah uh my kid my my son uh broke that but uh i do have my uh i do have my my the the sink with the brown hair that's the one i i kept in good condition so that's that's still with me and i have the aw figures as well but

Speaker: and

Speaker: Yeah, everyone thought he was going to show up at WWE at some point in the mid 2000s. Because, you know, obviously Vince McMahon buys WCW. Everyone's kind of jumping ship over there. Eventually you see Hogan, Scott Hall, and, oh, I forgot to say, I mean, the Evoto racist, Scott Hall. Who's this Hogan guy you're talking about? Who's that?

Speaker: So they eventually signed a WWE, but then still no sing sing What what would have what would have sting been doing in that like was that post attitude error when everything happened? Cuz I know like

Speaker: It was kind of like over, it was kind of over. It was like 2001, right? He bought WCW 2002. So I was on a game show, uh, right before revolution where it was staying trivia and it was like named the first 10 titles that he won. And one of them I got right.

Speaker: was the WWE World Championship right after WCW was bought by WWE. Staying in a couple other guys just collected their money and they went elsewhere instead of WWE. And he and Luger wrestled for a company, I wanna think it was in England.

Speaker: and they just went overseas and you could buy it on pay -per -view. So he was still wrestling. It just wasn't anywhere in America. He's just going around the world wrestling, collecting checks. Yeah, he was. Yeah. Some reason he didn't sign when they bought WCW. He said it was that Booker T thing. What Booker T? Oh, him not being treated right. You mean when he came in and was like, Oh my God. I mean, he was right. He fucking came in and had a job to Triple H.

Speaker: Yeah, that's true. For no reason. What a triple edge. Get out of beat and sting at mania. Nothing. What did, what did that a WCW versus WWE thing? Like we bought, we bought. Yeah. I mean, that's what they're trying to sell us. They're trying to sell us on that. Like WWE versus WCW. Yeah. But I mean, the thing that annoyed me though, a little bit was NWO had his back. Like, right.

Speaker: I mean, I know they're probably the only thing that made sense. Yeah. No, you could have had Goldberg come out. You could have had.

Speaker: I don't know. I get the Steiners. Maybe you could have did anything. Yeah. Or you could have just had Sting win. And without all that other bullshit, like, because his head Sting pin him. I don't know. I don't make sense to me. And then Triple H shows up like an hour later with a fucking suit on like he wasn't even in a match with an icon. Yeah. Way better wrestler. Go to hell, Triple H. Yeah. If you hear the commentary to like.

Speaker: It was just yeah, it was just they're just kind of like burying of like, oh, this is the biggest crowd stings ever seen and also right, you know, it seemed like when I was watching it, I wasn't thinking of that. I was like, yeah, this is the biggest crowd. I mean, it'd be the biggest crowd any wrestler's ever seen, though. So like to just single out staying and be like, you know, because he was in bingo halls and shit like that. Yeah. The rest of the flea markets. This is the thing we're talking about. We're talking about

Speaker: Was I ever said I like you wouldn't come on like he wasn't in Atlanta the dome freakin just like yeah Yeah, I was there for that matches. I come on Goldberg one big -ass crowd using Japan He seemed big crowds there too It's like I don't want to get off on a tangent cuz it's yeah, it just brings it back to one of those things where With uh before we get to the final four. It's one of those things where you know, you know, we talked about Tony Khan a little bit

Speaker: And how he took care of Sting. But then you have the big three, as we call it, the big three signing with Mercedes, Ocada, and Will Ospreay. And you hear supposedly rumors, the deals that WWE gave them was like, we're not gonna give you as much money, but you'll be able to be at WrestleMania, one of the biggest shows.

Speaker: That's what they can show up at WrestleMania. You can bury them and say this is the biggest crowd that they have ever seen. Like, come on. Not that that'll happen, but like obviously, Vintick Mann isn't there anymore. He's feeding everybody lines at that time. But at the same time, it's like, come on, they've seen big crowds before. Not to get all into it, but I really do want to see Mercedes go out of WrestleMania again, no.

Speaker: She said she'll be back at some point. She did say like before she signed to AW that she'll she knows that she'll probably be back at WWE So I know it's been a small sample size But I'm a way bigger fan of Sasha Banks and I was then I am Mercedes. Yeah, I still I still like She's one of my it's Mickey James Becky Lynch and then her like she's in my top three. Okay, but I

Speaker: I don't know. It's just something's not hitting right with the, I don't know if it's cause she got hurt or this weird as music she's got now. It's here's what it is. It's the WWE presentation that I'm afraid it's gonna, what's going to happen to her is what happened to Cody cause Cody had that same presentation in AW and they started booing the shit out of him.

Speaker: That theme she had in WWE was good. The little boss dance she did was good. When she got the blue hair, all of a sudden, I was looking for Tiana Trump videos with blue hair. It was weird. They're like doppelgangers or two. But no, I like Sasha Banks a lot better than Mercedes. So far, now, AEW's got a chance to make this. And again, I don't want to go down a different road. But they have really good women in their company now.

Speaker: And if they make her the star of it and and just use the women like

Speaker: I think they could do well with this and I think she could be my favorite iteration of her. I don't know, who knows? 20 years from now, we could all be fucking 50, 60 years old and doing a Mercedes Monet. What's the best thing for her? Sasha Banks or New Japan or AEW or wow, women are wrestling.

Speaker: Yeah. I mean, Tony did say she was he said she was the face of AW or she's going to be the face of AW. So that's saying a lot. I don't I don't know, man. I don't know. I did like her New Japan stuff, but yeah, but I but I like to know a lot. I like I like the way the women are presented there like they're

Speaker: scary tough yeah yeah definitely cheap plug definitely if you don't have it already they you know the new japan pro wrestling they revamped their like streaming service so it's like all in one app before it was like you had to like stream it to like a tv or a screen it's actually like kind of like a you know a peacock where you can just go in and watch all the matches and stuff like that yeah i definitely definitely recommend it if uh

Speaker: if you're a new Japan fan and you want to see like all the old all the old stuff. They have they have some AEW stuff on there, too, because obviously they are three cross paths. But let's final four. This might be hard. So we got Surfer Sting who moved on from the first from the first round versus Joker Singh. How the.

Speaker: I mean, Surferstein, come on. I was paying attention to the brackets, how they get together in the semi -finals. They're on the same side. That's kind of unfair. That's a lie, also. Like, I've been drinking tequila. I haven't paid attention to the fucking brackets. Did you pick Surferstein, John? I picked Surferstein. I don't know. I agree with you. I agree with you.

Speaker: Joker's thing was awesome, but surface things just. That's the beginning. That's. That's this nostalgic part of it, right? Like yeah, like when you first started liking Sting, that's what you remember. So yeah, I'll go. I'll go surfers thing.

Speaker: Yeah, the only surfacing, like not to spoil it, but surfacing is probably winning this because the only one for me at least that competes with that was Crow. And Crow's going, he beat Crow. Yeah, he whooped his ass in the first round. We'll see. I don't know. We'll see. The last two going against each other is Hooligan Sting versus

Speaker: T and A impact icon sting. You know what, Marco, you're right. It won't be just a walk in the park for. So one of these two might be depending on who gets there. So I'm going to I know it's only a three year sample size, but I honestly think AEW sting was probably one of my favorites. He's undefeated. Yep.

Speaker: Um, he wrestled with people that you would never thought it like from guys like, I don't think he was ever in a match with Cody, but guys like, uh, one Darby FTR fucking even see him punk who I don't like the young bucks who I don't like, uh, Scorpio sky and even page and.

Speaker: uh, edge he wrestled with like, he just, yeah, Ricky Starks. That cinematic match, by the way, that's probably the best cinema cinematic match I saw besides the Bray white and John Cena one for different reasons too. Yeah, that was a really good match. And so, uh, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with, I'm gonna go with a hooligans thing.

Speaker: Damn. All right. I have an analogy for you. Oh boy. Here we go. Let's do it. To me, Hooligan Sting, I don't know. All right. I'm from LA, right? So Kobe means everything to us. When he did his farewell tour, that was like the only thing that trumps that would probably be his like three peak

Speaker: Cause that's even better than his like second three peak weight or his second row where he got two more rings. Yeah. Yeah. But, um,

Speaker: Like I look at Hooligan Sting that way. Like he's Kobe scoring 81 on his last game. He's old, he's tired. Like icon. He's hurt, works with a bunch of fucking children. Yeah. And then TNA Sting was great, but that was Kobe going back to back on his second run.

Speaker: OK, like a comparison for me, like they're both equally great. But that hooligan, he's Kobe scoring 81. Like on his last game, like you can't go wrong with that. Those hooligans. Oh, man. All right. So be all right. So before we get to the last match up. Oh, shit. Right. I want to do I want to do this. I want to get a I want to get some thoughts on

Speaker: his legacy on wrestling, like what his impact in legacy was on, or was on wrestling we'll say, cause he's obviously he's not wrestling anymore. So, so we'll start with Rucker. We'll start with you. What do you think Stings impact of legacy will be in professional wrestling going, going forward?

Speaker: I think for fans, it won't be as high up as it should be. But listening to, you know, I listened to a lot of podcasts, I listened to busted open and stuff like that, where they have actual wrestlers on there. I think inside wrestling, he's probably ranked a lot higher because you never hear anybody say anything bad about him.

Speaker: Yeah. Uh, he never politicked, which he probably should have, especially star K 97, especially WrestleMania. He definitely should have politicked. Um, but he's a guy that,

Speaker: did it the right way. And so his legacy, honestly, I think without hooligans thing, his legacy would have been a lot lower in a lot of people's minds because they would have remembered WWE Sting and they would have, you know, we're wrestling fans. We got dumb ass attention spans, right? Nobody gives a shit about what happened in 1997 anymore. Like, what have you done for me lately? And the last thing we saw from him before he came to WWE,

Speaker: was losing to Triple H and losing to Seth Rollins. So, yeah, that's right. AEW Sting probably put him back in the upper echelon where he needed to be. And to see so many of his peers give him his flowers the way fans probably should have, I think puts him in the top. I'd say, unbiasedly, you have to put him in the top 10. I'm not going to say he's a Mount Rushmore guy because, yeah,

Speaker: It's hard to get him in the top four, but I could say top six all the time. Oh, yeah. Maybe even top five need myself. I could get him in the top four easily because, you know, you take the more risk, get his ass out of here. Yeah. And honestly, like.

Speaker: stone coating the rocker in there, but I don't think this is gonna start a whole nother podcast, but like, I don't think takers is high up as everybody puts them. I think, I think Sting is legacy wise. Like when you really sit down and look at it, you can't, they like to say in the NFL, you can't make the hall of fame if we can't tell the story of the NFL without you. You can't tell the story of pro wrestling without Sting.

Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. No, you're right. That's some good shit. I like to think like with Sting, his attitude, right? So you got to look at his contemporaries, you look at Shawn Michaels, look at Hulk Hogan, you look at, you know, all the clique pretty much, you look at even Undertaker, you know, his comments about all the

Speaker: They're playing video games in the locker room, and it's not toxic enough. I think that we need some toxicity in the locker room, pretty much. You look at that, and you look at Sting. You put Sting, Sting.

Speaker: in any locker room and he survives, you put him in that toxic environment, he's gonna stay the peaceful. Like you said, nobody's ever talked negatively about him or anything like that, but he fits more into the locker room with the guys now. If that makes any sense, he's not really politicking and all that stuff. He takes it as a job. And I think a lot of, some guys probably,

Speaker: get up in arms about things. But thing has always been like, well, this is my job. They pay me. They want me to do this. I'm going to do it the best of my abilities. So I think for that reason alone, when you look in at examples of like just a cool, chill person. And I think that a lot of the younger guys will look at that as their example of

Speaker: how they will behave in the future or even now. Cause like you hear stuff now and like they're pretty chill now. Like they're not. So I think, I think Sting is, was ahead of his time being honest. Yeah, I definitely agree with that. It's, it's one of those things where you go, he, he's kind of, he kind of set the bar, the example as how to navigate through the world of wrestling without,

Speaker: You know, he pretty much got out of unscathed. There's no one still won championships still. Yeah. 40 years. Yeah. Yeah. No, like no scandals. No, you know, bad press like kept to himself. Like if you didn't know if his sons didn't come out.

Speaker: During that last match, you wouldn't even know he had kids. Yeah, I didn't know private. If you didn't see his grown ass kids come out dressed as him, you would be like, holy shit, stay as kids. I didn't even know that. Like that's how like, you know, private and how like.

Speaker: you know, low key kept himself, but at the same time, so be this big like star essentially wrestling, which is kind of like I'm pressing. I mean, you can say the same thing with Undertaker. He was kind of like the same. Yeah. He kept the low key profile. Like, you know,

Speaker: Didn't, you know, stayed with the gimmick. Didn't, you know, didn't do interviews, none of that stuff. So, but obviously you kind of knew about his marital stuff. Like his wife was on TV before and then something happens and then you see his tattoos gone. And then now he says, Michelle, like, so you kind of like seeing his like personal life unfold on, you know, on TV where sting, you didn't see any of that. You just seen his wrestling career. You didn't see any, anything else.

Speaker: uh uh ultimate like we talked about uh you know sting being that like you know this is a job whatever however you want to do let's do it let's make it work i think to bring in his counterpart warrior i think he had the same idea this is a business this is a job this is what i'm here to do i'm not here to make friends i'm here to make money but he went a little bit more like extreme with it like basically he wasn't going to be a pushover

Speaker: Like not that thing was being a pushover, but like warriors like you're not going to fuck with me like you do with everyone else. Like I'm here to make money and that's it. I'm not I'm not going to job to you. If that if it doesn't make money, I'm not doing it. And that's that's where I think I think they kind of like, you know, he would have been in that same boat if he had that same mentality or be stuck with Sting. I mean, they were friends at one point. I mean, I'm not sure how long they stayed friends, but they knew each other.

Speaker: and stuff like that. He did say he kind of blew him off at a signing when WCW and WWF was in the same place and they were signing autographs. Warrior blew him off. And Sting went to go talk to him. Oh yeah, that's sick. I believe that shit, dude. Definitely. He definitely did that. He definitely did that.

Speaker: The Revolution Press Conference, he actually said, like, we needed to be separated. Like, we would have killed each other. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's like, we're both roided up young dudes. And he talked about how he stopped doing steroids in like the early 90s. And the warrior kept doing them, which, you know, who knows if that has anything to do with his early demise or not. But yeah, I agreed. Like, I think this thing is the example of you can do it the right way.

Speaker: without stepping on other people. Yeah. Like if you have it, it will come out regardless of if people are fucking you over or not. And for whatever reason, Sting had it, even though he wasn't, you know, supposed to be a wrestler. That was his calling to do it and glad he did. He did it great. All right. So let's let's look last last matchup of the night.

Speaker: We have the beginning versus the end. So this is kind of poetic in a sense. I didn't map it out this way. It kind of ended this way. So we have the beginning of his career versus the end of his career with surfer Singh versus this is kind of, I like this kind of poetic, which, which thing is going to be the sting of the ring, the main, the main character.

Speaker: out of all the stings. Who wants to go first? I don't, that's not about going to shoot it to anyone. Whoever wants to speak up. I'll go first. If you don't mind, John, I'll go ahead. Please don't make me the deciding factor. I don't want to do it. So this was hard because I told you like I've seen hooligans staying wrestle more times than

Speaker: any other version of a, but the first time I met him was surfacing in camperina in Kansas city. When I was a little kid, we were going, going to the bathroom. Oh yeah. You told that story. Yeah. We made a wrong turn and we ended up in the locker room some kind of way. And the Stein brothers weren't being very nice to a couple of kids. My, my age and staying stepped in. I was just like, Oh my God.

Speaker: And so, you know, and the shitty thing is like, it was like the early nineties, late eighties, like there was no camera phones or anything like that. So me and my cousin go back and we're trying to tell her, but they're like, whatever motherfucker, you ain't see. And I just remember wanting to be, you know, a white dude with a flat top haircut, which is impossible, obviously. Right. But

Speaker: Surface thing wins, man, like who against things that guy, like that's, that's who we, we look at now. Like I said, what have you done for me lately? Uh, that's how we're going to remember them. But when you look at staying overall through all 40 years, like the highest moments of his career, that 45 minute match with flair, like that all happened as surface thing. And without, without surfacing, doing what he did, you don't get

Speaker: Joker, Main Event Mafia, WWE, The Icon, or Hooligan. You don't get any of that, because he probably doesn't make it. So just off nostalgia, I'm going surface thing. Man, that's a good -ass reason to go with surface thing. I can't argue against that. For me, I'm really into stories and always

Speaker: The worst part of the story is, you know, like eventually it's going to end, even if it's like just a section of the story and you know they're going to make a sequel or something like this.

Speaker: For me, the best stories are when there is a definitive ending where like, that's it. And all you have is the memories where you go back and you look back and you get to see like, oh, I remember where he started and we get to go through it all over again and go back to the end. And like, I think that this ending was so perfect. It really was.

Speaker: that it's just like, cause you, you, it's 40 years, right? And he hadn't missed that whole 40 years. And like you, you see like not to shit on anybody. You see Ric Flair ending, coming out of retirement again, and then retiring. You can shit on Ric Flair, we don't care. It's like, this is the most confusing story ever. You like fucked up the perfect finish.

Speaker: Right. We've done it a couple of times. He did it with John Michaels. And like, like I hate that Cody is saying, finish the story. Cause like you finished the story. It's over. It's the end. Yeah. Winning the title. Isn't finishing the story. That's another chapter. You turn it into a chapter, but sting really finished his whole story. And like now we get to look back. We have all this footage of all these matches. We have all the tapes, the DVDs,

Speaker: the paper views, the appearances, the autographs, the toys, you know, the video games. We have all of that to look back on because he started somewhere. He started as, you know, he started the tag scene, but in the singles run, he started as the bleach blonde hair with the face paint that just

Speaker: consumed us, that made us love him. And then he ended it and not, there was not one moment in that 40 years that we did not love him where we did, where we looked and it's like, Oh, he need to retire. Like we did with Undertaker. It was like, I remember once on, he was like, Oh, he need to stop. He need to stop. It was not one moment like that with Sting. So I have to give it to the who again, because he ended it.

Speaker: at a high performance too. Like this high level of performance, which is crazy. 40 years in, like that's insane. Like for me, uh, in, in my brain, like works on stories. I have to go with the finish, the ending cause it's beautiful chef's kiss. But I give it to you though, because you can't have an ending without a beginning. And these things are in a lot.

Speaker: They send a loop and we get to watch it all back over and over again as many times as we want. But I go, I'm going with Hooligan. Before you go, Marco, I want to agree with John. Like if you think about.

Speaker: Everybody's last match, the last match you saw with Flair, the last match you saw with Steve Austin, although Steve Austin's last two matches were pretty decent with the Rock and Kevin Owens, right? The last time you saw the Undertaker wrestle, the last time, like name whoever you want. Who had a better match than what Sting had at Revolution?

Speaker: who had a better run than what Sting had going up to it. So, picking Julian Sting, I'm a service thing guy, but I can't argue with you. I'm not gonna be like, what are you talking about? No, I can't even do that. This run was so good, and for it to end the way it did, it really was perfection. So, good luck, Marco.

Speaker: Yeah, so what I'm going to do is we're going to leave it at a cliffhanger. There's not going to be an answer. Oh, get the fuck out of here. Damn. That's the end of the show. Thank you guys for that. I'm joking. Yeah, this is tough. I heard both of your. This is it's one of those things where, like you said, you can't have one without the other. They both kind of interlocked with each other.

Speaker: For me, it's not so much like the nostalgia piece of it. It's more or less the body of work that Sting has. And I think for Hooligan Sting, the body of work loses out to the body of work of Surfer Sting, the amount of matches he had, the things that he had to overcome, the championships he's won,

Speaker: as surfacing the Broadway matches as Rucker brought up, 45 minute matches and things like that with surfacing.

Speaker: And, uh, we'll go more recently bias, obviously with, with, with hooligans thing, you know, a lot, a lot of tag team matches. So not so many singles matches. All tag team. Yeah. Pretty much all tag team matches. Not that obviously he's an older man. So he's not, I'm not expecting him to jump in the ring and fucking do it. They said a 45 minute match, um, with all these young guys and stuff like that and run circles around him. So that's not a, that's not a thing, but.

Speaker: I'm gonna go... I'm gonna go with Surfer Sting, I think. I think Surfer Sting is the definitive sting for all of us because, like Rocker said, he's the beginning. He's the alpha. He's the reason why we got a wolf pack, a crow, a main event, a hooligan, a vigilante.

Speaker: it had to start somewhere. And I think, I think there's no wrong answer really. But if I had to pick, I'm going with surfacing because, like I said, the championships he's won, the wars he's fought, and just, you know, just like you said, fighting through, not that, you know, with hooligans thing, didn't really have to fight through many, you know, other stars at that time. So like with surfacing, he's fighting against, like you said, Rick Flair, Hulk Hogan,

Speaker: You know, uh, freaking Kevin S Scott Hall. Yeah. Uh, Rick Rude, stunning Steve. I like it. It was like, it was, it was a roster of dudes. Yeah. And that state was, you know, competing against for, for like, I'm not, not saying he wasn't going to get TV time, but

Speaker: He had to, he had to overcome a lot before, you know, they, they seen him as a real, like, you know, a real, like, like, I don't want to say icon, but a real like main event star and WCW. And that's, you know, we get, that's the man called Sting.

Speaker: I mean, that's what we get that theme from. So, but like I said, no wrong answer, really. Yeah. But like I said, just as far as like the battles, you know, the wars that had to be fought, surfacing had to fight through a lot more than cool against things. So.

Speaker: god the passage of time is crazy no recency bias for me that's that's it like i almost went with it but i was like i was like you know there's so many good like if there's one thing that you learn from this episode is go back and watch wcw watch stings matches watch watch him in his heyday just fucking sing a splash of the corner just fucking going crazy winning championships left and right just

Speaker: put on, you know, fight and fight all styles of fights. I got like Marcus said, like, you know, having technical matches of Ric Flair and then having the hardcore matches of fucking Oh my God. Him in the great moon. Oh, having technical matches, a great Buddha. Yeah. For the TV title back in the eight late eighties. That was so good.

Speaker: having fistfights with Vader like he had to he had to switch it style up and fucking go brawl our Vader because Vader's not a not a technical guy. He's a fucking bruiser. He's going to beat the shit out of you and you got to adjust. He kind of I know they kind of have like that thing to him and Bret Hart, you know, with the sharpshooter versus Scorpion Deathlock thing.

Speaker: But he always staying always like reminded me of a Bret Hart. Like if I had to pick a counterpart for the WWE or WWF at the time it was Bret Hart because Bret Hart did the same thing like he had to he adjusted to every style of match he had.

Speaker: just like Sting did. If it was a brawl, like he fought mankind, he had to adjust to mankind's match. It was like a match. I think it was like shock on Saturday night, like one of the first episodes. But he had a match with Mick Foley, and he had to brawl and stuff. He had to fight Rick, sorry, Roddy Piper at WrestleMania. Roddy Piper's not a technical wrestler, so he had to do the dirty style of fighting. So -called Steve Austin. He had to adjust the style with So -called Steve Austin.

Speaker: Diesel beat a bigger guy. He had to adjust his style to fight a bigger guy. That's how I always look at Stink as the same way. Stink, every opponent he had, he always adjusted his style to that person. He fought in the ring. That's my thing, but go ahead, Weber. Those are the first two wrestlers I saw on Stink, Bret Hart.

Speaker: I know Brett's my guy, Brett over Shawn all day. He's a hater of the air, dude. I love Brett. I mean, but for reasons. Yeah, I mean, he hates Goldberg. Like the guy gave him a seizure and concussions and shit from being unsafe. Like I hate him too.

Speaker: Yeah, see, I always like compare them to like, obviously, you know, stinks on a like angry, curmudgeon guy.

Speaker: I, you know, I have to admit, I'm I'm a I'm a hypocrite because I picked service thing over hooligans thing. But when I got a tattoo of a wrestler, I got fucking hooligans thing tattooed on me. Oh, let's see. Oh, wow. OK. Yeah, like. Oh, you did. Yeah. Oh, man. That's the hooligans thing. Scorpion or whatever. I didn't get it. I got it down your back.

Speaker: Like a big, big scorpion. It would cost a lot more. I was kind of hot roulette hen in Vegas and I was just like, let's go get a tattoo. What should I get? And that was what I got. That's awesome.

Speaker: Woke up sober the next day, like, why is my arm hurting? God damn scorpion on my arm? Like, what is that? It was like, what do you call it, like, hangover? What do you want a scorpion on my forehead or something? Oh, the scorpion, like, rapping around like your eyebrow onto your cheek, dude. That would have been tragic. That would have been awful.

Speaker: Oh man, but... Man, anything else? Anything else you guys wanna add to it, or...?

Speaker: Should we, should we end it, end it there? I think that was, let's end it perfectly like Sting's, Sting's career there. But before we go, we'll obviously, we gotta get the plugs out. We'll start with John, but yeah, I mean, I know your plugs, but definitely tell everyone what they can find, Jeff. Yeah. Yeah. So if you, if you dig wrestling and you like wrestling and other cool stuff, you could give me a follow at gold bars and hooks.

Speaker: That's on Instagram. Uh, and then if you, if you're like, I don't know if you, if you're into music and you, you like finding new stuff, like stuff you've never heard before. I'm like a guy from Compton. It's kind of unknown. You can follow me at Sir John Lee. That's S I R J O N L E E. Awesome. On everything. Rocco, where can we find you?

Speaker: Um, for wrestling stuff, you can find me at boot to the face on Twitter X or whatever. Uh, on Instagram, it's boot to the face underscore. It's with number two. Um, we got all kind of, we get hundreds of episodes on there. We got interviews and stuff like that. Uh, if you're a football fan, predominantly the Cowboys, I do a Cowboys podcast called full press Cowboys, which you can find on

Speaker: all of your major podcasts and outlets. But for the most part, I do social media stuff for pro wrestling. We've been doing boots of the face for like five, six years now. I don't even know. So it's fun. It's a couple of fans, myself and my boy, EJ Reed. Find us on there again, like I said, at boots of the face with the number two, and that's it.

Speaker: awesome you guys everyone knows where to find me and vp marco find me on uh on the turnbuckle tavern feed obviously with the raw down every tuesday nine o 'clock p .m we uh we talked that wwe talk myself and uh j bone uh from coming down the aisle we uh we just give our musings

Speaker: We almost, we were gonna do some Vince McMahon stuff, but some jokes, but we cut that out. We did it after we ended the recording, then we got our Vince McMahon jokes out afterwards, so you won't hear any of that. But no, definitely check us out. Check out, obviously, the Pod Foundation, everyone on there, Turnbuckle Tavern, extra cooler.

Speaker: I already said extra cooler. Yeah, extra cooler coming down the aisle. Chick Foley show. Chick Foley show on Twitter. That's what I run. Chick Foley on IG. Sheena runs that and MVP Marco on all platforms. That's pretty much it. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you, gentlemen, for joining me. This is amazing. Nice to meet you. You too. Yeah, well, we'll talk soon.

Speaker: Peace.