Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Open Mic #39 - Scott Lesh (AEW Photographer)
65 Plays2 days ago
In this episode of "Open Mic with The MVP Marco, he interviews photographer for All Elite Wrestling, Scott Lesh. Scott discusses his journey from fan photographer to AEW staff, emphasizing perseverance and learning. He explains his unique photography techniques, challenges of event photography, and his interactions with AEW talent. Scott also shares his passion for music, the influence of wrestling history on his career, and the fateful day he met Cody Rhodes who helped him get his foot in the door at AEW. From his journey in the indie scene to capturing iconic moments in AEW, Scott shares some amazing insights into his craft and the wrestling world.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Who the hell told you tonight was over?
00:00:34
Speaker
Welcome, everyone, to another episode of Open Mic with the MVP Marco. I am, of course, your host, the MVP Marco. And I'm here again with a another fantastic guest for you this week. and So ah stay stay tuned.
00:00:51
Speaker
Hopefully you you you're listening past this intro and you didn't quit on me just yet.
Pod Foundation and Associated Creators
00:00:55
Speaker
But um before we get to the guest, I always remind you, check out the Pod Foundation. That's the um that's a group that I'm a part of. um It's basically a collection of podcasters, content creators. It starts with the Chick Foley show, which I'm a part of. um That's a flagship of the of the Pod Foundation. We also have coming down the aisle with J-Bone.
00:01:17
Speaker
who's also my tag team partner on a show we do called The Raw Down every Tuesday on Patreon on the Turnbuckle Tavern Patreon page, which brings me to the next group, the Turnbuckle Tavern. ah They're part of the Power Foundation. They're the workhorses. They pump out shows literally every single day of the week. So they have everything from you movie reviews, obviously wrestling, because that's you know that's what anchors us all together.
00:01:42
Speaker
and And all and host of other topics interviews and all that type of stuff. So definitely check them out. Last but not least, we have the extra cooler show um who who's also a part of the Foundation. ah Nick, extra cool. If you don't know him, definitely check him out. He's one of the premier artists out there right now, especially in the wrestling world.
00:02:02
Speaker
He's done a lot of, he's done a lot of gears and a lot of, uh, different commissions and things like that. Definitely check out his page.
Social Media and Chick Foley Show
00:02:08
Speaker
Uh, he's a great guy. So check out him and the, uh, and his friends, they do like a nostalgic type of wrestling show. They, they go back in history and they, you know, pick out matches or certain times in, uh, in wrestling history and kind of review that, um, in hindsight. So definitely check them out. Um, obviously always check fully.com is where you'll find everything.
00:02:28
Speaker
that has to do with Chick Foley, Chick Foley on IG. ah Follow that page, Chick Foley show on Twitter or X, whatever you want to call it. And um you can follow me at the MVP Marco everywhere, um except for TikTok. It's at the MVP Marco underscore because I don't know if someone took my name or I set it up and totally forgot what the login was. So it could be either one. It's 50 50, obviously. But, um,
00:02:55
Speaker
Let's get all all that stuff out of the way. Let's bring the guests on my next guest. um One of the ah for me, anyway, one of the premier talents out there when it comes to photography, um mainly in the AEW realm. Definitely check out his his IG. He has a lot of iconic photos,
Guest Introduction: Scott Lash, AEW Photographer
00:03:14
Speaker
actually, that that um that will definitely talk about that. You probably weren't aware that he did. um So leave let me just bring him on. Scott Lash, how are you doing? Good. How are you doing, man?
00:03:25
Speaker
I'm doing great. I try to give the best intro I can. I wouldn't do any better for myself. Like I said, you're probably one of the only photographers besides a couple that have followed that.
00:03:45
Speaker
that that I really were interested in in your style of photography. I'm not a connoisseur in that sense, but no definitely everyone has their own different style and approach to the way they you know they way they do things, um the way they you they capture and whatever they're capturing, whether it be wrestling.
00:04:03
Speaker
You know, you know, obviously there's a lot of people that do like, you know, wedding photos and all that type of stuff. But you have live to me, you have like a unique ah way of love of doing it for me. It's like in my own interpretation, it's almost like you're it's it's like you're I don't know what kind of camera you use it. I will get to that. We'll get a little nerdy and talk about that stuff. But it almost seems like you're like right there in the moment, like it's like crystal clear like I can like blow that it seems like I could blow that picture up to a to a raw image put it it like yeah you know at the Las Vegas fair it'll pretty much look like I'm right in that glo I mean for me and what I do that's basically my job is to to make it as true to life as possible because I'm mostly positioned at the heart cam yep oh yeah
00:04:52
Speaker
so that would be you know like that's the shot that you know a company wants to send out to the press and different things like that that would be your magazine covers and that's your your money shot at the end of the night somebody wins the title that's the shot that they go with you know like that's the big shot yeah so i try to you want You don't know. A lot of photographers get really creative with different work, but like for me, it has to be more true than creative yeah because that's the important part is displaying what's exactly in front of me. Yeah, definitely. and what ah What do you like?
00:05:30
Speaker
What's your, but i will well actually let's start with like the, I mean, if you want to give away the you secret sauce or anything like that. Let's see, you know, what kind of, is there is there a certain type of camera you like to use? You switch between cameras? I've known people to do that as well or photographers are to do that. For a general, for a generalized statement, I mean, most photographers will say like, it doesn't matter what camera you're using as long as you know what you're doing. Yeah.
Photography Style and Gear
00:05:57
Speaker
For me, I'm a Sony guy. so okay For the last, I would say, four years, I've been using the A92. It's very much a sports sports camera.
00:06:12
Speaker
yeah it's you know It does what I need. and there's a lot of now I don't do a whole lot of portraits and things like that. so I don't switch too much. um In terms of lenses, that's where you would switch more. I try to, um if I need to, like with Sting's last show, I wish i also had ah another camera with a wider lens hooked up so I could get wider shots. But in general, I use basically the same gear every show. I'm pretty boring when it comes to gear. Once I get something and I love it, I stick with it until it dead until it's dead.
00:06:51
Speaker
um but You know, that this stuff costs a lot of money too. So it's it's not that a I haven't been doing it long enough to have a big arsenal of, you know, I really haven't and compared it to others. I don't, you know, I have my, I have two cameras and I have basically two to three lenses and that's it.
00:07:12
Speaker
All right, no, that's ah that's yeah, because I think the the one of the photographers I interviewed before they I think they've idea they kind of
Role and Importance of Photography in AEW
00:07:19
Speaker
use it just the same um same camera. Yeah, you know, it depends on the angles too. So where are you usually positioned when you're doing when you're taking these shots? So for me, like I said, ah I'm always that far cam on pretty much right below the main camera. Okay.
00:07:36
Speaker
So there's usually nowadays, there's usually two hard cams. There's one that's lower and then there's one that's higher, below the lowest one, yeah like right below it. and I really, you know, I don't move much. It's it's sir pretty, like during the day when I'm backstage, I'm just pretty much, I joke all the time that I don't need a chair because I'll be sitting all night. So like I just stand, I ah stand all day and just, you know, I don't want to sit because, you know, let's say we have a pay-per-view, I'm sitting for like six hours straight. I can't block the camera above me. I can't do anything, you know, so. yeah
00:08:15
Speaker
It's, uh, it's, you know, you don't think of it as a physical job, but sitting for that long doing something, it can catch up with you. Yeah. yeah no no Definitely. Yeah. I mean, like you have, you have some that are, you know, obviously you see them on camera there around the ring, you know, taking like those clothes. We have, you know, we have, um, we have six guys in AWW, but, um, usually three on each show.
00:08:41
Speaker
Um, so you usually have a studio guy hard cam and then ringside yeah paper for pay per view. We usually, we can have usually four to five depending on the show, but, and then there'd be like one guy like roaming around different things like that. My specialty personally is hard cam. Everybody knows what I do best. So that's pretty much where I stay. yeah You know, roaming is something I've done on the Indies. I've never been a ringside guy besides as a fan.
00:09:10
Speaker
It's just, I don't think I'd move fast enough in terms of the talent. I don't want to hurt anybody or I like i don't want to get hurt. um So it's never been something I've done. So I've always done things that are more outside the box in terms of like wrestling photography. Everybody starts ringside where I started further away from everything.
00:09:34
Speaker
yeah totally. And I think that's also what kind of set me apart a little bit because no one was really doing what I was doing on the indie level or different things like that. And, you know, they everybody was going ringside, ringside, ringside where I was trying to do something different just because I knew my own limitations physically.
00:09:56
Speaker
um And I think it worked out in the end because now I'm known for a specific thing and I don't think that's a bad thing. It would be good to maybe try some other stuff, but there's nothing wrong with having being perfect at something. oh yeah no definitely being And knowing you can do that almost as good as anybody.
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah, i I totally agree. Actually, I want to say I kind of want to stay on the AEW stuff, but you kind of mentioned on the indie stuff. So what other companies have you worked for before, you know, or do you still do any indie stuff as well? It's in terms of indies, I can't keep up right
Transition from Fan to Professional
00:10:39
Speaker
now. It's just too hard. My schedule is crazy. I you know when I come home from a travel, I just want to collapse with my dog and just sleep a few days. yeah
00:10:51
Speaker
um before Before AW, I was, it' it's tough because there was not that many indies in New York after COVID really. yeah We have House of Glory, which I worked with a lot. yeah they they They bring in a lot of big talent. So like, they've always been good to me. And I always, you know,
00:11:16
Speaker
It was more so like just giving back to, you know, the scene and just, I never saw this becoming more than what it was for me. So like, I was doing it for fun. I didn't see it becoming a living of any kind. Even when I was doing the press stuff for, you know, shooting AEW, shooting WWE's press, um it was never something that I saw was gonna go beyond that.
00:11:43
Speaker
yeah So in terms of the indies, it was always just for fun. Whoever would work with me, you know, there was that, you know, there was points where I was doing it as a fan and I was buying tickets and shooting. And I was like, I think it was like 2021. I was like,
00:12:01
Speaker
You know, everybody's making money off of my stuff. I'm not making money off of it. yeah I don't want to buy tickets anymore. If you want to, you want me to shoot your shows, you're going to just give me the access. Let me in, let me shoot it. And then you'll get the same great photos, but I don't have to put myself out financially. Yeah. When you're the only one that's benefiting from it, you know? Yeah, yeah exactly.
00:12:25
Speaker
it you know, that's the wrestling business for you. and It's very, very use using people and you know, that's just something that some people get used to, but I was just over so hi did that perspective yeah so how did that So how did that come about?
Impact of Cody Rhodes on Career
00:12:43
Speaker
like what did like what was it What was the first time you were just buying tickets to get in the shows and taking pictures? When did you but did you get like that um that moment? And who was it? I mean, if you don't want to say that's fine. But what was that moment when you were like,
00:13:01
Speaker
you know what if you like how did how did you get discovered in that sense where they're like oh my god this guy has great you know photography how do we get him to do it and then you were just like i'll do it but i'm not paying to get in anymore if you're if you're getting nice purposes like how did that so in terms of that like on the indies like i never officially worked with anybody so like there were companies like um locally like battle club pro they yeah they they always took good care of me because like they They saw what I was doing and like they treated me like I was actually bringing something to the table instead of just using me. House of Glory, another one that just, you know they would let me in and and shoot. But again, none of these companies, I don't wanna say anything bad, but like none of these companies
00:13:55
Speaker
Indie wrestling is not where you make money. yeah I mean yeah so um i never had any and never really asked for money. i never said i just wanted i didn' I just didn't want to put myself out financially. I was doing it for myself. yeah I wasn't doing it for them. That's how I saw it. yeah and So then when I stopped buying the tickets, I was like, you're either going to give me the access or not give me the access. It was more so, again, about myself. It wasn't about delivering to them. It was more so I saw more worth in myself. And I knew that if I'm not going to make money at this, I'm not going to give you money either when I'm delivering you a product.
00:14:44
Speaker
Like I'm delivering you content. You're using my stuff to advertise your shows. You're making money off of my stuff. Well, I'm not gonna buy tickets. That's ridiculous. yeah So, and I think a lot of people still nowadays get taken advantage of um when it comes to content and whether it be videos, photos or anything. And I think it's maybe even worse now because everybody has a camera. you know But like that was my,
00:15:15
Speaker
line in the sand kind of moment and there were some companies I just never went to again and I never shot again because you know like I messaged them and I was like not I was basically offering them free stuff if they give me free stuff basically yeah I just wanted I just wanted to get inside the door just to to do what I do yeah if you're if you weren't gonna let me do that if you weren't gonna respond to me then That's it, i'm not gonna I'm not shooting anymore, that's all. you know it wasn't it wasn't a ah you know It wasn't something for me where I was gonna be like, I'm gonna say this to somebody and then I'm just gonna go back in my word and then shoot still, because that just makes me look stupid. ye So in terms of that, that's what that was. But in terms of going ah going back further than that, in terms of who really
00:16:12
Speaker
lit a fire under me and made me feel like I could do something with this is, believe it or or not, Cody Rhodes. I told the story a few times, but like back in, I guess I was really just starting out in terms of fan photography and he was He just left WWE. I was shooting of all Evolve shows as a fan because they always ran New York and that was mainly like our home independent. And his first weekend on the Indies was in Evolve. So I met him the first weekend he was on the Indies and we know the one we had a long talk about just different things. Like we didn't know each other, but he just treated me like he knew me.
00:16:59
Speaker
And fast forward a little bit and he winds up in ROH and I'm still taking fan photos and I'm getting a little better. And he he just started sharing my stuff. He he he exchanged numbers with me. He texted me. He was like,
00:17:18
Speaker
just giving me a boost of confidence that I didn't have at the time, especially with this stuff, because I didn't think I was doing anything special. I thought I was just, you know, shooting some photos, whatever. I didn't think it was good.
00:17:33
Speaker
yeah But people like him and a few others, like they just kind of boosted my confidence to actually invest in myself, literally and figuratively, just to like buy buy better gear and learn more. And there's a lot there's a lot with me and Cody. yet i can't I can't tell you enough how much he's done for me. And I know he's done a lot for a lot of people in the business,
00:18:06
Speaker
but He, when you fast forward to like AEW becoming a thing, he got me my first press pass. I never thought that I would shoot an arena show like that. I never anything like that. And just the connections with him spiraled into me officially shooting stuff with AEW in 2019.
00:18:34
Speaker
ah guys I shot for AEW their first few shows, like officially. As a freelancer, I was shooting for it like, I wasn't on staff yet. Yeah. yes um And that was crazy to me. I was, I probably shouldn't have been given that opportunity done because I, I wasn't ready for it. Yeah.
00:18:56
Speaker
um But like I said, like, um yeah, I'm jumping around a lot, but like it in terms of like people that really got me going and said I could do something in this, it was Cody. Like he really, I can't state it enough. I've said it a lot publicly in a billion places. He's the man. Man, you're so big, you weren't. So you're around. You said in 2019, so you're like.
00:19:25
Speaker
You're pretty much like a pillar. You're one of the AEW originals almost. A lot of people do associate me with the company even before even before I worked with them. yeah it's It's a so crazy thing. you know like um
00:19:42
Speaker
i never it Again, these things that just happen and it's not something that was planned. you know i i have you know kind of had a, really have a relationship with Matt Jackson too, like he's he's helping out a bit. um And it's just different things that, you know, like you, you make a, that's what this is all about is, is making relationships early on. And you never know who's going to become something or lead to something. And it's always about um
00:20:15
Speaker
keeping those connections because like I so used to see the Young Bucks Russell in this little room in Brooklyn for Dragon Gate USA and now they're EVPs of yeah the second biggest wrestling company in the world. And so same with Cody is like when he left WWE the first time it was like, I knew he was gonna be special. I was always a fan of Cody but like,
00:20:43
Speaker
You can see just in that first weekend that he was on The Independence, it was, he was all about it and he was ready to do the work. No pun intended. that yeah yes That's one of his things, but like it's it's literally who he is. And what they built to be even a small part of that yeah and for before before all of what I'm doing now was like crazy to me. And now to,
00:21:13
Speaker
all those connections kind of lead me back to where I am now too. And it's just, it's an insane thing to me. It's a not something I take for granted.
Early AEW Shows and COVID Impact
00:21:21
Speaker
So what were the what were the first shows that you did for AEW as far as photography? In 2019? Yes. So the...
00:21:35
Speaker
second, the second, third and fourth dynamite I shot for them. It was, actually no, it was the second and third. It was Boston and Philly. And then they had a full then they had the first full gear pay-per-view in Baltimore. I shot that for them too. okay that would' a That was in 2019. It was more so like I was working the locals, my local type shows.
00:22:03
Speaker
So like anything that I was going to get to anyway, like yeah yeah in terms of just geography, you know, like i they weren't flying me out to shows yet. um But then you fast forward a few months and um basically COVID comes into play and there was just no There was no way I was traveling during COVID yeah cause cause at the time because at the time I was around my parents, I have i have some health issues that I wasn't sure what was going to happen with COVID in me. yeah it just you know So my whole life was on pause and AEW was still going, obviously. like
00:22:42
Speaker
yeah um So I basically just had to wait for them to come back on the road and just start all over again, basically, and and do press and, ah you know, working for PWI, which has been, was a big factor in like just getting my stuff out there more and in terms of like,
00:23:11
Speaker
Everything like that was 2021 when AEW went back on the road and that was, and it's 2024 now and it took three years to get back to where I was basically, in my mind at least. It's not, it was never really a goal though. I thought it was just, I thought it was in the past, I thought it was done. I thought this was just, I would just be doing media I never thought it would come back around, well honestly. It's just not it's not something that was in my mind. There's a lot of talented people that work in AEW already.
00:23:50
Speaker
I'm just very fortunate. How did how did they um how did that ah connection come back at that time? Like, Bosey, did you reach out to them? Did they reach back out to you?
00:24:02
Speaker
so um They were changing some stuff up over the prior year because they added collision into the schedule. oh They brought on they brought on three three other photographers on a permanent basis. um One of the photographers, Ryan Loco, um he does who's, he's the goat probably, he's the goat.
Aligning with AEW Full-time
00:24:30
Speaker
fact i Yeah, I think I follow him too, actually. Yeah, he's amazing. If he don't, he definitely should. um he um So basically he does a lot of and m MMA and different things like that. yeah He shoots this karate stuff and he needed Saturdays off more than they, you know, more often basically. So yeah so today we're gonna shift him over to Wednesday nights
00:24:57
Speaker
And he was going to just shoot dynamite hard cam. And basically I know around Thanksgiving time last year, they reached out to me and said, we need a guy for Saturdays. And, uh,
00:25:10
Speaker
paper views and whatnot, and pretty much the rest is history. Nice. That's ah that's it's kind of like a like the stars are aligning at that point. if it Really? Yeah. it's a Like I said, it's still phrase we're coming up on a year now of me starting with them full time, and it still doesn't seem real a lot of times. It's crazy. Yeah. it's It's not something I ever thought I could do.
00:25:39
Speaker
just physically, mentally, it's a lot. So yeah, yeah it's been a crazy year. Dude, fun fun fact, by ah my first and my first and only AW show, I've been trying to get back there at some point, was the Boston show. The second dynamite? Yeah, the second dynamite. That was my first ever time being in an AW, going to an AW show. a lot has changed A lot has happened since then.
00:26:09
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, exactly. it ah You know, obviously, like now, like, you know, I have kids and stuff like that. So it's kind of hard. My son's into wrestling and stuff like that, too. So it'll be easy to get him to go to a show. and somebody I will. I will tell you one thing with with AEW and and the kids. um The way the way our security and our staff handles kids at the shows is really something to see. It's not something the public really sees, but yeah they'll They'll find the kid in the audience that's like dressed up like Orange Cassidy or Darby Allen. And yeah no they'll they'll bring them out to the ring and take photos in the ring. They'll potentially bring them backstage. I mean, they do a lot for our kid fans. So it's really cool stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely have to get back there. They did the Blood and Guts in Boston. That's the one I wanted to go back to. but
00:27:04
Speaker
try to get, you know, it's on a Wednesday night, kids have seen the next day. It's tough, yeah. Not for sure. It's tough. Yeah, they're like playing it out in that sense, but definitely when they, could obviously they're going to be back in Boston at some point. Yeah, yeah. Definitely going to go, because I want to go back and just see the, you know, how how different it looks, you know? Oh, yeah. It's it's a, you know, take it from some, I've been there since the beginning in some way or shape or form, and For a fiveyear five year old company, it feels like we've been through decades of- Oh yeah, it seems like it. Just just the rest look just is the wrestling landscape and just how much has changed. And it's always weird for like, even when you look at like, when Cody first left WWE to now, and it's yeah really it's really not, it's less than a decade.
AEW's Growth and Challenges
00:27:53
Speaker
it's really yeah that It's really not that long ago. And look at all that's happened. It's really- crazy.
00:27:59
Speaker
whether it be the birth of AEW, ROH, changing ownership, yeah the VIN stuff. yeah yeah so you know ever everything about the Everything about the industry has completely changed. Yeah, the crazy thing too is that you but ah like with We're watching like, we're watching a, come so obviously we're, you know, you're accustomed to like w WWE. They've been around for almost 70 years. Right? So you get like, you've seen, I mean, if you're a wrestling fan since like, yo, the eighties or nineties, you've pretty much seen all the, you know, all the drama inside the ring and outside the ring and stuff like that. But with AWS start, like you get, you get to see everything from the beginning and you get to see like, it is a weird perspective. It's like history, history history family before you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you like
00:28:47
Speaker
we're trying to we like, if you're an older elder statesman, as far as a wrestling fan is, you're you're seeing this like brand new company go through a lot of the stuff that you know, every other company went through yeah every other company. And that's, that's the thing that a lot of people don't realize is Yeah.
00:29:05
Speaker
So much of what AEW goes through now or will go through or has gone through, WWE went through themselves. Yeah. it Everybody went through it. Yeah. all this thing The thing too is with like, you know, with Tony Khan and stuff like that too, like you're, you're expecting him to, um, you know, if something that does, you know, be it, we'll say more outside the ring. So like, obviously you read dirt sheets and all that crazy stuff. And like, I'm i'm not a big fan of dirt sheets. Yeah. You can't believe everything you read.
00:29:34
Speaker
but like you're expecting him to like you know when there's like backstage situations you're expecting him to handle those situations like uh a Vince McMahon who's who's had a tenured you know just just a little bit more experience yeah just a little bit more experience he's not in that position to right now anyway he's gonna grow to learn you know to be, I mean, hopefully he says his personality is he doesn't become like a hard nose. Like like it hope it's the same. It's the same thing with wrestlers. It's the same thing with wrestlers themselves. You know, like when old wrestlers talk about what young wrestlers do and it's just it's one of the silliest things because
00:30:12
Speaker
Everybody learns. Everybody evolves. Everybody changes. And it's different times, too. That's the other thing, too. you you Yeah, for sure. I mean, you can't even to compare 1989 to 1999 is a stretch to compar yeah nineteen ninety compare to 2009 is like it's just especially wrestling. It's like wrestling to me is like I was compared to technology. Y'all for sure. Technology changes literally every day. Like it's like in terms of.
00:30:41
Speaker
In terms of just the styles alone. Oh, yeah. You get a computer. You you buy a computer today. It's pretty much old by tomorrow. I said a newer version of it out. Like that's how wrestling is. It's like it' it's it's like it's almost like a void where just like the time, like you said, the time flies. Like it almost seems like he's been around a decade. It hasn't been that long. No, it just seems like it's in there. And that's I think that's the problem is they they get put on this um they get held to the standard that they really, obviously, I don't want to say they shouldn't be held to a certain standard, because yeah obviously, the company is doing well, yeah in certain regards. um But it's more so like, they just
00:31:30
Speaker
people weren't doing this to like WWF or whatever it was. Like yeah like when Vincent McMahon senior was ah owner for, and it was only around for five years. Nobody was talking about attendance and yeah yeah yeah no TV ratings, but whatever it was like, yeah what are what are we doing here? Like yeah yeah give the the you know there's going to be growing pains.
00:31:54
Speaker
It's a business. yeah but every Every business is gonna have ups and downs. And the whole thing is historically with wrestling, especially post WWE being what they are.
AEW vs WWE: Competitive Landscape
00:32:08
Speaker
yeah When WWE is as successful as they are right now, the secondary company is not gonna do as well. It's just it's just tough.
00:32:19
Speaker
there's I don't know. And again, I'm sort of on the inside, but not really on the inside. Like I'm not privy to, I'm not privy to certain things, but like it's, you can't expect.
00:32:33
Speaker
a W to compete with what WWE is in this moment. Yeah, it's like guess it's it's just impossible. Yeah. And I guess it's a seven eight year old company. It's not about the talent. It's not even about the booking. Everybody could disagree with booking. It doesn't matter.
00:32:51
Speaker
um
00:32:53
Speaker
You're you're dealing with a juggernaut that is actually doing well right now. So when that juggernaut is doing well. Yeah. this, whoever's below them is going to just do worse and everything's going to be perceived as worse. yeah It doesn't matter. yeah It really doesn't, I feel like AEW could put on, I mean, we have, I mean, in terms of our pay-per-views, we have the, I still say the best pay-per-views in wrestling. yeah But I mean, probably, I mean, that's pretty. We could put on those pay-per-views and it doesn't matter to certain people.
00:33:31
Speaker
Yeah. So at that point, you're, you're trying to win over people that you'll never win over. And yeah I think at some point, you just got to do your own thing. And I, I hope we stay in that realm of trying to do our own thing. I would like to see, you know, a little more, um,
00:33:56
Speaker
differentiate ourselves a little more. yeah But um it's tough. It's still wrestling. you know like there's only There's only so many ways you could do wrestling. yeah And when everybody says, oh, like this is just like WWE or this is just like AEW. Well, again, wrestling is wrestling. You can only do certain things so many times. Everything's been done before.
00:34:19
Speaker
yep And, you know, how many nature boys are there in wrestling history? Like there's, there's like, you got nature board barrage, nature, boy, red flare. There'll always be something that's replicating something from the past. It's not copying. It's just, it's doing its own vision of that. Yeah.
00:34:42
Speaker
And it's it's really no different than music too. you know Music is the same way a lot lot of entertainment is. Look at it Hollywood now. How many movies are how many movies are original? None. Pretty much all either, you know, they're all remakes or or like superhero movies, pretty much, which is not which is not original content. No, it is like it's all based off something up, something somebody else did. So it's I think it's just there's a lack of innovation and across the board in terms of entertainment. Yeah.
00:35:20
Speaker
And I don't know if, coming from me, I can't come up with anything better, but it's just more so like, there's only so many ways to do things. And at some and that's what you're just gonna keep doing. You're gonna see it every five years is gonna be, oh, you're doing this again. Yeah, well, this is what it is. Wrestling, I've been watching wrestling since I was three years old. I'm 38 now, so.
00:35:48
Speaker
I've seen it all in just in that timeframe. Like I've seen the highs, the lows and everything in between and I still love it. You just gotta stop taking things so seriously. Yeah, definitely. and it's one of it's Actually, you well we'll like we'll get into it because you kind of brought it up already. yeah so and what did you what what What wrestling? who Did you get into wrestling yourself or was it like a family member that got you into wrestling? Yeah, so I have an older brother.
00:36:23
Speaker
Basically like, I don't remember, like I know he always watched, but like the first thing I remember as a wrestling or watching wrestling was being in my grandparents' house and my brother was watching Saturday and saturday night's main event.
00:36:39
Speaker
um My first actual memory and I don't remember anything else from this show. My first memory was the mega powers exploding. ah When Macho attacks Hogan backstage over the the Elizabeth situation. I remember like so vividly I remember sitting on the floor of my grandparents house watching their old tube TV and
00:37:06
Speaker
It's like it was yesterday. It's one of those things when something's so that's something becomes so important to you, it's something that's like just etched in my mind. Yeah, yeah that that moment.
00:37:22
Speaker
and then I never looked back really. I've been a wrestling fan my whole life since then. I've watched every incarnation of every horrible piece of wrestling there is. Every good part of wrestling. I've never given up on wrestling. It's just been my one thing. you know I'm not into real like actual sports.
00:37:47
Speaker
yeah Pro wrestling, that's, that's life for me. you Did you have a, uh, did you have a preference when it came to what, what, uh, organization you watch it? Like, you know, WWF WCU. So, um, I knew about a lot of things before I actually watched it. So, um, in terms of that part, like.
00:38:12
Speaker
In the 90s, my family, we didn't have cable, we didn't have know we didn't have access to a lot of things. like mike My brother's friends would record paper views for us on VHS tapes from the illegal feeds. And I'd watch it the next day with my brother, but um or I'd rent tapes.
00:38:30
Speaker
but like So in terms of access, I really had like five channels. um So WWF at the time was really the only thing I saw on TV because he had like superstars and stuff like that that was on the local
Early Wrestling Fandom
00:38:45
Speaker
channels. um But strangely enough, like even when I didn't have access to it, I was I was drawn to WCW through like toys, like I would ah had a bunch of like figures from WCW, even though I never watched any of their stuff. So I like I had brick flare, I had brick flare figures, I had sting figures. And then I would go to my local tape stores, even before I would go to blockbuster like the real local tape stores. Yeah. And and like,
00:39:17
Speaker
there was this tape store that was like a few blocks from me that would actually sell their wrestling tapes or sell certain tapes. So it wasn't just renting, you'd be able to buy them for a certain cost or whatever. So I was able to access like the, you know, get all these Coliseum home video stuff from WWF and all these WCW tapes that I would have never seen otherwise. So yeah I just, you know, anytime my mom would let me i would ah buy whatever I could. And like, I had like,
00:39:46
Speaker
the best of sting and best of flair and like 92 and like different things like that. And so I would say I was more WWF just because that's what I was brought up on and I could see. yeah But as I was getting older and able to access more, I was probably more WCW going into the Monday night war. yeah I was probably more WCW at that time.
00:40:16
Speaker
But yeah, I just loved pro wrestling. It didn't matter to me. I never i was not a sides guy. I'm still not a sides guy. you don't you don't and To me, it's not a team sport. You don't pick sides. It's one of the stupidest things to me that wrestling fans do. yeah we don't we don't have We can have it all. We don't have to pick a side.
00:40:37
Speaker
exactly um i'm as you know My memory is not 100% great with the you know, the 90s and throwing up with it. But I don't remember ever choosing sides. Yes, there were times where I liked one more than the other. ah Yes. But I didn't I didn't draw the line in the sand. I didn't say Oh, I'm a WCW guy. I'm a WCW guy. Yeah. I would watch Nitro with my stone cold shirt it on. It didn't matter. to I loved everything. yeah and i you know I've been to Nitros, I've been to RAWs, I've been to i' been to impacts, whatever it is. like I've been to every company that ever existed in this country. I've seen them live because I love wrestling. Every major company, like I've seen original ECW live, I've seen TNA, I've seen WCW, I've seen WWE. I love it all. you every Every company that's come around has their pros and their cons.
00:41:34
Speaker
And every company has had great moments and you can't like, in terms of the main companies, like there's a lot of bad out there too, but, yeah yeah awesome so but I just, the tribalism of wrestling, I'll never understand that part.
00:41:51
Speaker
Yeah, that's that's one of the things that's one of the yeah that I don't like about being a wrestling fan is the tribalism. It's it's it's weird. imagine Imagine being on the outside looking in like at wrestling fans. Oh, yeah. no There's this people that, if you are read comments and stuff like that, people are like, what the hell is going on? Why is it weird? Why do you guys like it? There's no reason. we're not good Nobody's competing anymore, first of all.
00:42:19
Speaker
like Yeah, exactly. We're not on the same nights most of the time. Yeah, we're not head to head. Maybe sometimes, if they get like... we are The only reason we're fighting for the same audience is because the audience, a lot of people only want to watch so much wrestling. And that's the problem. yeah i think that's I think that's the biggest problem now is yeah there's so much content.
00:42:43
Speaker
yeah And it's as a if I was a kid now, I don't know if I'd be able to keep up.
Wrestling Content Overload
00:42:49
Speaker
Even though we have better access to everything now, it's just yeah so hard. It's so much stuff. Like my neph my nephew was a wrestling fan for like three years and then just gave up.
00:42:58
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's' so it's just tough. It's just hard. You'd think nowadays would be easier because all the like the different clips you can watch and stuff like that. It depends on the type of fan you are because I feel like I feel like it can push people away, but it also can make bigger fans too. Yeah, yeah, like that's true. I didn't think of that side. yeah like It's overwhelming, I think, for a lot of fans, just how much there is. like yeah i I have friends that like that just can't keep up with it. you know like that know My generation, we have kids, people have kids now on yep family lives. and it's just
00:43:40
Speaker
I don't know how some people watch all the stuff that they do. like i wish i could I wish I could watch more. like I don't have the time. i just no Also, it's just you don't want to watch just wrestling. you know like Exactly. yeah yeah there's other that's I think that's probably my biggest problem.
00:43:58
Speaker
My biggest problem is like I have time to watch stuff, but I don't want it to all be wrestling.
Balancing Wrestling with Life
00:44:04
Speaker
ah especially Especially now, because like I live wrestling every every week now. like yes Hours and hours at a time. so yeah so It's pretty much a library now. When I come home, I don't really want to watch what's going on in WWE. It doesn't matter how good it is. It's just it's hard. it's it's It's a lot.
00:44:25
Speaker
you You tell me you don't really randomly do the Nana dance around your house. just off tea ahead I do have the most random, the most random theme songs that stay with me know like, like frickin Johnny TV, like random just random things that will just pop in my head all the time. Because especially, especially working Saturday shows, like we we tape a lot of ROH,
00:44:54
Speaker
So yeah there's a a lot of, we're just, lot of filming ah yeah a lot of It's a lot of stuff. and Just the most random songs. Yeah, it's one of those things where yeah you're a wrestling fan. You're always going to, you know, it's in a gulf of your life at some point. You're going to see something. You might be watching something else on TV, like not even has anything to do with wrestling and it's going to relate. You get it's going to come back. to Oh my God. That's like my wife. She watches. a She watches a lot of like the like those was like housewife shows. it
00:45:28
Speaker
And it's like, when I watch it, um I have wrestler brain. So like, when I'm watching, I'm like, Oh, that's the heel. It's a face. It's a real thing. because That's the action together that that's going on in this group of people. I say things to my girlfriend all the time about like, just different things like, so she works in fashion. So like, um What would be like a hairstyle? I'll be like, oh, that's like 2002 Chris Jericho. Yeah. she was She's like, what? and and i then And then I prove it to her. I'll pull up an image on Google search and I'll be like, you see what I'm talking about? And she sees it. Because it's true. Because every everything is pro wrestling. Everything relates to wrestling. Everything. I mean, when you're that ingrained in it,
00:46:13
Speaker
To me, it's it's all I see. and What's funny, like just to relate back to her, is, um so I think it was like 2018, 2019, she got, WWE reached out to her. Oh really? because So she's a wardrobe stylist. You know how WWE was often doing like different themed photo shoots on their website, like different yeah things like that?
00:46:41
Speaker
So there was an anniversary, and it was like Valentine's Day, and they wanted to do the Shawn Michaels shoot. I don't know if you've seen this shoot with Shinsuke Nakamura, the new guy. Yeah, everyone dresses Shawn Michaels, right? my girlfriend My girlfriend did all that wardrobe. Oh, that's awesome.
00:47:00
Speaker
Yeah, so when she's working on that and coming up with the different because she didn't get to use anything like that's all made from stuff she got like, oh, that none of that's the original Sean stuff. They couldn't use any of the archive stuff.
00:47:15
Speaker
know So like when she's working on this and like they're giving her like the errors the errors of Shawn that they wanted I'm like, well, I can actually help you with this Shawn Shawn Michaels is my favorite Russell of all time. Well, maybe Brian Danielson is overtaken a little bit but like yeah, all Michaels is my top guy but so if there was one thing I could do is break down the errors of the heartbreak it and I was able to like pinpoint all this different stuff for her. And I was like, basically correcting some WWE stuff, because they sent her like years that were wrong for the, like, so for her research was like, it said like, it was showing like the heartbreak hotel stuff. Yeah. And they wrote the year of like 1996 or whatever. And I knew that was like 95, 94. Oh, yeah, that was way earlier than that. Yeah. So like, just different things like that. So it's just funny how like, again,
00:48:16
Speaker
Everything's pro wrestling in it. and So can you get the one where they did like they they recreated everything. Right. Like they did like the barbershop window. Yeah. With the new day and stuff like that. that Yeah. still Yeah. I remember that. All right. It hurt. The Shinsuke photos kind of went viral and they still pop up every now and then. Because the body's a heartbreak kid, man. Yeah, did it was. a It's I think tim and trying to be unbiased, but to me it's my favorite thing that they've ever done in terms of those studio shoots. um ah just Oh yeah, I remember they did.
00:48:55
Speaker
okay Well, they've done a they've done taker. Yes, I've seen those ones. Yeah, they did. They did an ECW one. But like all those were so like basic in comparison, like the details that went into this Shawn Michaels thing. No, people don't even realize how how crazy it was. his his ah Oh, man. You know what? Because, you know, I kind of remember it. So like so just to like kind of bring it into today's like thing, like the new day they did the barbershop. Right. Yeah. yeah and
00:49:27
Speaker
and the And I remember it was like Big E was was Brutus that koy and and Xavier were yeah Sean and Marty, which is kind of what's happening today. it apparently Apparently it is. Which is crazy. I haven't been watching weekly, but I just saw that apparently there are teas on some stuff. Yeah, it's the anniversary is coming out back. I'm not sure if it's this month or in November, the new day, like the actual like when they came together as a new day. So they're that their anniversary is coming up. So I'm assuming something's going to happen on the anniversary. I'm assuming Biggie comes back. That's just my personal either that or I'm not in the I'm not really following. But yeah, I'm assuming because I don't ever see them breaking up.
00:50:16
Speaker
Well, yeah, so I'll give you like a quick synopsis. It's basically obviously, you know, yeah Biggie's not around anymore. He's been gone for almost like seems like two years. I think he's been. That's true. That neck injury. But um it's kind of like you know Xavier and Kofi kind of like not really seen eye to eye as far as, you know, where they're going, like what's the future of the new day, all that type of stuff. So but it's almost like like Xavier is kind of breaking out as like the not not the bad guy, but like he's kind of being like a, you know, like a dick to people around him, like being a dick to Kofi, being addicted. Which is probably something he's good at. So yeah, I mean, he's from what I mean, from what I've seen, like, even like it is like, not god not that he's a mean guy, but like he's a very nice guy. you Usually, you know, for sure. But you can see, like, you can see when he, uh,
00:51:07
Speaker
does like different bits with Kenny Omega and stuff like that, how he could be like that edgier guy.
Wrestlers' Personalities and Roles
00:51:12
Speaker
Like I always said, like, fingers, you know, like, you know, Brian Danderson was one of those dudes, like, you know, always, you know, he was, he was a heel on the indies and stuff like that. But like, he was in WWE. He, you know, he became a, you know, live with the yes, yes, yes, and all that stuff. Fan favorite, baby face, all that stuff. And then when you see him, like do interviews, you can tell he's like, you know, he's a nice guy. He's like, you know,
00:51:32
Speaker
He could yo he you could be yo sarcastic and stuff, but all of us could be like that. yeah He has his own way of joking things, but what he was doing is heal stuff. but he was the eco warrior? One of the best things ever. I like do i think like the nightsest guys, the ones that are nice in real life, make the best heels. I think it's just a something that comes out of them because they don't get to do that. Well, not that they don't get to do that, but they its i have what they have like this reserve in them where they can just
00:52:05
Speaker
use all this stuff that they never use, basically, because they're not bad people. And one of my favorite things ever, that you know, him with the Kofi Beatty, all that, like, that whole he was like, is that's like one of the one of the best, like, that's it. And I know, like, everybody loves Brian and universally mostly. But like, I think he's underappreciated in terms of character work.
00:52:32
Speaker
Um, yeah, I think he's, a great he's really, people don't talk about him when it comes to promos and character stuff, but he is one of those guys that like, when he starts going, oh yeah he he'll make he'll make you feel like you want to run through a brick wall. oh yeah Like like co Cody had that early on too. And yeah obviously he's developed it further. yeah Like Brian is more.
00:53:02
Speaker
natural in the sense that it seems like it's truly him and that it just amplifies it that much more. And it's, yeah, again, there's certain guys that don't really get their dude, their due for promo work and things like that. Yeah, he's, he's definitely one of them. Because there's people that say like this, you know, when you talk about the the greatest of all time and things like that, like,
00:53:27
Speaker
Oh, like, you can't be the greatest without being a good promo and all this other stuff. And well, yeah, you maybe that's part of it. But at the same time, you're not acknowledging that this guy literally is really one of the best of the last 20 years on the mic to like, and especially how he's well like, there's a reason the yes movement took off. It's not just because it was yes, yes, yes. It's because he made you feel that not just through in the in the ring and just through this, it was more, it was the promos that he was cutting at the time. yeah I lived it, um you lived it. yeah If you lived through that, you know exactly why he took off. It's because he was real and he was the best and he still is. Well, yeah he has like yeah, you have to connect, right? You have to connect with the audience. To me, way I mean, so like,
00:54:22
Speaker
I was at a lot of those shows uh during that era um when he uh was getting like slapped down basically like yeah well the rumble went right Mysterio coming out in Pittsburgh I was there so I was there for that um I was there for a lot of things leading up to that mania which I was also I was also at that mania and no yeah I was I was I went to that rape mania too it was one of my favorite moments ever um just that build alone, like people want to say, you know, WWE, you know, made it that way. But no, that was, that was the fans. That was CM Punk leaving. That was a lot of things happen happening at once. And Brian was the right guy in the right time with that. And it was just like the perfect storm of everything.
00:55:13
Speaker
Yeah, it was organic, definitely, that whole thing happened. It's a special moment. Yeah, yes he's felt like you said, character work, like all that stuff he did with the Wyatt family, would he yeah he had that feud with them, and he became part of the Wyatt family. then how how like that The moment that he broke away in that cage match, oh oh my god i that the the crowd is the but still, to me, one of the loudest things and one out of visually one of the coolest things I've ever seen in wrestling. Yeah. now you know you you It comes back in my life because I posted about it like on Facebook at the time. now yeah It comes up in my Facebook memories every time the anniversary comes around of it. I'm like, yeah this is still one of the coolest things ever. Him on top of the cage and he's concussed at that point.
00:55:57
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, he was totally out of it. He doesn't remember any of it. And it's just he had the crowd in the palm of his hand. Yeah. he Yeah. Yeah. You might have a great point at you know his being underrated as far as like, you know, obviously we know he's like one of the not the best wrestlers like in the the world. But like, as far as like his you know character work, yeah, you you might have a point like he's part of where they're not going to get at it till after he's gone. Yeah, it really it really gets undersold.
00:56:27
Speaker
Honestly, yeah, does definitely. um So again, I want to circle back to, you know,
Work Conditions and Photography Approach
00:56:33
Speaker
AW and stuff like that. And, you know, that like, so how is like, what are the what is your like, like working conditions, like not the sensor is it like, is it bad and stuff like that? But like, what do you like? How does it like, do you have any do you have any interaction with like production? Do they tell you like, do they give you direction? Do they let you do your own thing?
00:56:55
Speaker
and terms of what i In terms of what I actually have to do, I'm pretty much out of sight, out of mind. I get to do my own thing where I am. um There'll be rehearsals and stuff during the day that you know i I can see if there's going to be big spots or something. But most of the time, you for me, it's more so like because I've been watching this so long and I just have a good sense of what's going to happen.
00:57:24
Speaker
yeah
00:57:27
Speaker
I bring that into my photography and then I i just i can anticipate moments and shots that way. it's And in terms of production, the only thing I i get from production is a run sheet. Basically the order of the matches and stuff like that. and Nothing too crazy from the photographer standpoint when it comes to production. They have their own meetings. We're kind of separate from the main production. We kind of have our we kind of have our own thing.
00:57:57
Speaker
And, you know, like the ringside guys have to be more in the loop because they have to be added away for certain shots and different things like that. And yeah, it's very, very calm day for me most of the time. That's, you know, just hanging out and getting to be part of this crazy world.
00:58:20
Speaker
do you Yeah, like ah do you have to be actually just like brought up a really good point now I know why You're like your photography is like white stands out because he obviously you obviously said you're sitting at hard cam right position so it's almost like your pictures like reflect like like watching like an actual like like the show, essentially, like the way they are, the way they're shot, like that's like you could shoot them. You're not like you're you're seeing it from the exact point of view. So that's my main camera. And I think that's it's not it's not it's not always easy, depending on the shot. Yeah, because the video cameras are much higher position than I am. So um so if they're like, I'm out of frame here, but like high above here,
00:59:08
Speaker
and like I'm below that like right here. yeah So like depending on the the the venue, um like some of our women talent, like they might be on the shorter side. So then I'm kind of having the like in my seat kind of go under the rope.
00:59:27
Speaker
from a hundred feet back or whatever it is. So sometimes there's disadvantages, but I think, you know, it's, to me, I like that shot because everybody, everybody's posing that way. Everybody's facing the hard cam. If they know what they're doing, they're all facing my direction. Most moves should be oriented that way. Um,
00:59:51
Speaker
To me, for me personally, it's my favorite spot. like i Ringside is a cool spot to be that close, but it's also a lot of variables and you can't control those variables. And I don't like to be out of control when it comes to that stuff. you know like I wanna know that the shot is in my hands and not something that's gonna block me.
01:00:19
Speaker
yeah and different things like that. So it's some not everybody, you know, it seems easy, but not a lot of people are great at hard cam. I'm not saying I'm the best, but like, um it's not as easy it's as it seems because I've seen a lot of people try it. And yeah because most people are coming from a point of view of using smaller lenses,
01:00:45
Speaker
and being closer to the action, that being further away and with something much larger, yeah they're completely thrown off by that. yeah yeah where Where me, if i if I went ringside now and worked with small ones, I would be thrown off by that. Cause it's just, I've been doing this point of view so long now that it's just, this is what I know, this is my sweet spot.
01:01:12
Speaker
yep and ah Yeah, do you have like you have the you have the the the advantage of getting the full yeah full picture? actually And that's the thing, and the the way I shoot is different too. I mean, a lot of photographers don't like how I shoot because... so i use I use the LCD screen of the camera. I don't use the viewfinder. So there's a few reasons for that. For my for me, a my eyes are very sensitive. So like when I go, when I try to use the viewfinder, I get intense migraines. So yeah it's just, ge especially for like our paper views and stuff that's like five hours long, yeah I couldn't do it. I'll wind up dizzy or whatever.
01:01:58
Speaker
yeah um But also, and this is just from how I started, I feel like when looking through the LCD screen, almost shooting it like video, that I'm watching the match unfold and I have eyes on the sides also, that wouldn't be in the viewfinder necessarily. So if somebody is coming in from this side,
01:02:27
Speaker
I could see it out of the corner of my eye a lot easier than I would through the viewfinder added while looking at the while looking at the LCD screen. So basically like to me, I just have a broad ah broader scope of the action when I'm shooting like that. And I mean, it's worked it's worked for me. A lot of people you know lot of people don't like that, but you know,
01:02:53
Speaker
I think it all depends on how you do it and and what your reasoning is too. Like for me, like when um shooting a cage shooting a cage match is the hardest thing to shoot from where I am, it's almost impossible to shoot a cage match from where I am. yeah But you have to, the main difference is you have to shoot it with a manual focus. So with that, I have to use the viewfinder because there's no way I can see the focus perfectly as as closely as I have to see it on the screen. It's just impossible. It's like the the Hangman Swerve match. yeah It was just...
01:03:39
Speaker
it's so difficult. And even the ringside guys have problems with cage matches, but like to be as far back as I am. Oh yeah. imagine It's not easy, especially those. So our cages are like, you know, the, looks like the hell in a cell type cages, but like we have these big metal beams in the middle and like I'm dead center with these beams. So it's like,
01:04:08
Speaker
if if I could get something in focus, I still wind up with the beam in the way. So it's just like, for those, it's it's my least favorite thing to do. um Everybody knows that. um But i you know I still get like no anywhere from 10 to 15 good shots or whatever. But but that's why like we have a team of us. So like for the pay-per-view, like I know if I'm not getting those shots, somebody else is. And that's the nice thing about working with a team is the the stress is not all on you to do that. And you know that in most cases, if you're not getting it, somebody is.
01:04:54
Speaker
Got it. That's the old man. That's something like deep inside that I never even thought about like the cage match. Oh, it's hilarious. What do got to do? the video i I have no problem missing cage matches if i I'm not scheduled on the show. No, it's it's good. i'm I don't need it.
01:05:15
Speaker
I mean, would you definitely put it that way? Like how... It's frustrating because like the Sword of Hangman match is such a big match and so many cool different things. And it's like, you want to get these shots and it's just, it's almost impossible. Like you could get like a handful, but like it's just so many obstructions and just making sure you nail focus. And it's just, it's not...
01:05:46
Speaker
It's not for an amateur to do. yeah not And even the professionals can struggle at that. And and it's one thing that I haven't nearly nearly mastered yet. I think I've gotten better, but there's only so good I think I can get with that because it's just to me almost impossible. Got it. and a So as far as like,
01:06:11
Speaker
Do you do you do any like backstage like BTS stuff or is it mainly just on screen? Not yet. It's kind of something I want to do, but yeah it's hard because so like I'm just an awkward anti social type of person. Yeah. um So like I try to watch like I see like Ryan Loco shoots all this stuff and Brain Buster and all these guys and they have these relationship with talent already, a lot of them, but also they're just more outgoing. yeah yeah um yeah So I think that's really what holds me back a lot of times with that type of stuff is like there's certain talent that I'm friends with, but I'm still not really in that mix, know like casual casual talking type stuff. And I think it's just awkward for me and it's not something I'm,
01:07:07
Speaker
exactly experienced in. I think I could do some good stuff um or at least try. um And I would like to do it at some point. It's just we, when I'm working in the same company as like Ryan and Brainbuster and they're like probably the two best BTS guys in
Backstage Photography and Dynamics
01:07:27
Speaker
the business. Yeah. It's tough to be held to that standard. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, I could see that. It's like, I mean,
01:07:37
Speaker
And like I said, like we all have our specialties. So I would like to broaden mine a little bit so I can be used in different ways. yeah But it's also tough to basically,
01:07:55
Speaker
and it's also hard for me in terms of finding the time to do it because um a lot of stuff, like I'm backstage all day, but like, whatever Like if talent if talents don't wanna, like it if we're talking about like um BTS stuff where they're in their gear and stuff, like yeah most of these people aren't in gear until I'm already out in the venue. got it So like like a lot of stuff that Ryan does will be more like,
01:08:29
Speaker
throughout the day, like in their casual wear, yeah different stuff like that, unless unless he's assigned to backstage. So like, it's different. it's It all depends on timing, but like, we have, it's just, it's definitely something I want to do. It's just something I struggle with the anxiety of of actually executing.
01:08:55
Speaker
Yeah, what about would you kids consider doing any or have you done any like promotional stuff like you mean the studio stuff? Yeah, like the studio or like maybe not the studio, but like, you know, if they're, you know, you see a lot of like the some of the photos they do, it's like not really BTS, but they're not looking at the camera, but like, you know, ah It'll have like, I don't like Chris that when she does that sometimes I show up some like, yeah, so that's more like a photo shoot. It's not like, it's not a candid job. That's what I mean. That's like, Ron, Ryan really does that stuff. And yeah, I think Michael Brainbuster does that. Again, I'm open to doing it. It's just a matter of figuring out how to go about it. And my own mind, just
01:09:48
Speaker
who so Sometimes sometimes it's hard it's hard enough for me to sometimes be backstage because I'm just a very, you know, i I have a lot of anxiety going into this whole thing. Like I never thought that I could do this. So now that I'm there, it's like this whole thing still. It's still very much an overwhelming sensation.
01:10:13
Speaker
um I think in time, things will start to happen again. like I'm approaching a year into this now, so we'll see what happens, but you know.
01:10:26
Speaker
we say is there who's who are you ah and We'll Who are you cool with there as far as i is talent is concerned? I don't know if I'm cool with anything. I don't really hang out with anybody. or joe maybe look Who are you cordial with? i mean like I don't hang out with people. like in terms of like A lot of people I've just known for years, like yeah well like Willow.
01:10:51
Speaker
um yeah I've, I used to, when I was first started shooting, I shot her in Brooklyn, Brooklyn gyms to an independent wrestler. I mean, so we've known each other for years. And like, she's just a happy person to be around. And like, what you see is what you get. She is, she's just a ah great person. And one of the people that I actually do really talk to and engage with just because we're both from New York and yeah we're we would usually wind up on the same flights home and yeah it's just one of those funny things where I always joke around because like you know the backstage is a big area but like one of the people I always wind up running into is Willow like she'll always see me she'll always find me so yeah a lot of the women because
01:11:45
Speaker
Like all a lot of the women I used to shoot shimmer shows a lot. Yeah. In Chicago. So like, I've known a lot of these women for a long time, like Deanna is also local. So I've known her for a while Lady Frost. Just a lot of those people um in terms of the guys. Lee Moriarty is a cool guy.
01:12:10
Speaker
I'm trying to think. It's just It's not a whole lot that I really, like I'll have casual conversations with people, but I wouldn't call them you know like acquaintances. I think that's more that's more on me. And like I said, I kind of like become a turtle in a shell backstage a little bit. And maybe over time that will change. I think I've gotten better with that, but um it really all depends on the vibes and stuff. Like I try to,
01:12:42
Speaker
if there's a conversation going on around me that, you know, I'll engage and I'll talk, but it's just tough sometimes when you're, especially when you come from how I, so I've always struggled with um being the fan that I was yeah and coming coming into this side because a lot of people know me as the fan photographer still.
01:13:06
Speaker
So it's a very weird thing for me. There's not many people that crossed over the same way I did, yeah where it was very much very much a fan, and then all of a sudden full-time AEW staff photographer. like it's um It's this thing where I think certain people still kind of just see me that way. And maybe over time they won't, and they'll, you know, maybe not not necessarily respect more, but like just, yeah It's weird. I can understand from some people's point of view that, you know, that I'm just that wrestling fan that was front row and at the indie shows. But um it's a little weird for me, too, in my mind sometimes where sometimes it
01:13:57
Speaker
I put myself in that mind where I'm saying to myself that Oh, he still sees me as that fan. You know, it's just you get inside your own mom, you get you put your mind plays tricks on you. And yeah, you start thinking, should I really be here? yeah Like, that's yeah, more, and not not from a talent, but not from a talent point of view, but like more so like just and being backstage is just weird for me still. It's just very weird. Like just walking, but walking by and like Brian Daniels is walking by it's like, that's my favorite wrestler. Yeah. So it's, it's kind of, it's been hard. It's, it's kind of hard sometimes to to because I'm such a fan still. But at the same time, I'm not I'm not I'm not i' I'm not a mark or whatever you want to call it like I'm not gonna
01:14:53
Speaker
go over to these guys. And I never i never did that even when I was a fan. Like I wouldn't harass people at airports and shit like that. oh But it's more so like, it is weird because I used to pay for meet and greets and stuff like that. and And now I'm just hanging out like talking to these guys or yeah working in the same company with them or eating lunch with them or whatever it is. yeah it's it's For my mind, it's something that's still processes so processing.
01:15:29
Speaker
Kind of surreal, probably, like walking back there and walking around to seeing everybody but so that one of the to me, one of the craziest shows, and probably my proudest moment so far, was just being able to be a part of Sting's last show.
Photographing Sting's Last Match
01:15:45
Speaker
Yeah. I can't tell you.
01:15:48
Speaker
um that meant so much to me and I i posted about it. i so much you know like so pet like I was him for Halloween two years in a row when I was a kid. like he He was everything to me and the fact that like I got to be part of that and like It was like weird, weird, crazy moments during the day, like surreal moments. Like I'm walking backstage and I'm going, I'm just walking to the bathroom or whatever. And I see like Rick flair and sting and brace. And it's like right in front of me. I'm like, is this real? Like, is this real life? Like this is life? Like what what what's going on here? Like it's those moments that are like crazy to me. It's not like,
01:16:33
Speaker
Like someone like Willow is someone I've come up with. Yeah, like we've both been through the same things kind of and it's kind of we've traveled the same roads. But when I'm around guys like Sting or even Danielson, that's where it's like, oh, shit, this is crazy.
01:16:55
Speaker
Like that, like the whole Sting last show thing was just insane to me, like, to even be a part of that in any way was, like I was gonna be there either way. Like I was literally, I was, but the fact that I was hired that that November and that show was in February, the timing on that was just like, holy shit, this couldn't have worked out more perfectly for me. Like it like it was just insane to me that I could have been hired at any point in this company's history.
01:17:28
Speaker
or not hired at all. yeah and And I got to be hired and to be a part of that. And that's just to me like probably the greatest moment for me in terms of just this whole thing so far. It's just crazy. Yeah, I can imagine. You you had definitely some great shots of that. Yeah.
01:17:52
Speaker
during the batch, obviously after with the companion. And another thing, like just with that match, and it's kind of a full circle thing too, is like dar Darby is someone that I used to shoot at Evolve. and he does he's not He doesn't like to talk about Evolve, because a lot of shit that went down with that. yeah For me,
01:18:18
Speaker
Like, that's where I first saw Darby. That's where Darby really made an imprint, at least in my area. And but just the crazy thing that this guy that I saw used to kill himself in nightclubs, from wrestling in nightclubs, um is now teeming with Sting in his last match ever. And for me especially, like,
01:18:47
Speaker
It was just a crazy moment, because it was somebody that I stopped like that i started. what it was You had Sting, who was a pivotal part of my childhood in terms of watching wrestling. yeah And then you had Darby, who was a big part of me doing photography.
Passion for Music as Therapy
01:19:04
Speaker
And it was like these two things coming together. And then the Young Bucks in it too, which I probably wouldn't even be here without you know Matt Jackson and Nick Jackson. But like it's one of those moments that you you just can't ever think would happen or just, it's just a crazy thing.
01:19:25
Speaker
like a What are you so so to pivot a little bit? What are some? i Obviously photographer. Wrestling fans, stuff like that. What are your what are you? What are your other? Do you have any other hobbies or anything you like to do besides? I'm a pretty I'm a pretty plain person. um I love I love I love. Probably more, maybe just as much, if not more in some ways, music.
01:19:56
Speaker
um I love going to concerts and like to me music is a release. um I love love editing photos because i I get to listen to music doing it. For me it's like therapy.
01:20:15
Speaker
it's just I always say like, you know, wrestling, I love so much, but even that you need a break from sometimes. Yeah, exactly. Where music, ah I couldn't live without probably, like, if I ever lost my hearing, then I don't i don't know what I would do. But anything, and you anything in particular that you listened to while you're doing? I was so i mean, these days, mostly um rock and metal different.
01:20:46
Speaker
um errors of different things. But like, anywhere from, you know, early 90s grunge, like Allison chains and Pearl Jam to metal these days. I mean, there's a lot of bands that most people wouldn't even know. Yeah. Band called seven dust. More people should know. Oh, yeah, definitely. Um,
01:21:12
Speaker
some hardcore bands like Eat Town Concrete. um just so I listen to every, like my mom, just the way I grew up is very eclectic musically. um So like i like ah my mom was a big Beatles fan and Motown fan. So like I have a little bit of that in me. And then yeah my dad was classic rock and stuff. So like, I just like everything like in terms of like In terms of hip-hop and stuff, like I still listen to a lot of 90s rap and shit, but that's hard for me to get into more of the modern stuff. yeah like So like my favorite rapper of all time is Tupac. and
01:21:52
Speaker
and you know it's just I think rap is very different now, so it's hard to get into it when you don't feel like it's the same. like For me, like to like i have I had a borderline obsession with Tupac.
01:22:10
Speaker
yeah um like i'll I'll watch all his movies, I'll watch documentaries, on like just a fascinating human being. But um lyrically, what he used to do is just on
01:22:27
Speaker
the stories and the realism there. It's just, it's I think it's a lost art in terms of modern hip hop. I mean, there's still guys out there that do it. They're just not the popular guys. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
01:22:39
Speaker
But I find it hard to just be in that mood to listen to it these days, just because, you know, it's just too much out there. Yeah. it I mean, Tupac was one of those you artists that like had a song for every every mood. yeah You need to be there because he was obviously. you live there And that's that's why I think I love him just because he was so all over the place. Yeah, he was a human. was And it was so um
01:23:09
Speaker
just relatable in that way that you could be in this mood, you could be in that mood and like any mood you're in, there's a song for it basically. yeah And that's kind of how I like certain rock music too is like, I don't like, like that's why I switch it up on like, i'll one one night I'll just wanna be like listening to guys screaming their heads off, but.
01:23:37
Speaker
yeah overnight, then I just want like melodic sing, you know, like, yeah think even like Lincoln Park, like, whatever, like, that's not even like, to me, that's not even metal anymore. But like, it's that voice and the the words in the music. And yeah,
01:23:55
Speaker
it gets you It gets you through so much shit. Yeah, my wife's a huge ah Lincoln Park fan. Yeah, we just so we just went to the the yeah return show at a Barclays Center in Brooklyn. How are you feeling about them replacing?
01:24:14
Speaker
I mean, there's no way to replace, but yeah, I will. Well, continuing, I should say, because i yeah I think they have every every right to continue. And Mike, Mike wrote most of the music and most of the lyrics. um To me, I think it's easier for me to digest because Alison Chains is my favorite band and they went through it, too. Yeah. oh I think it is what it is. I think the new stuff sounds pretty good.
01:24:44
Speaker
And I think the old stuff sounds all right. I think it depends on the the night that you hear it. But and know in in Brooklyn, I thought thought it sounded great.
01:24:57
Speaker
um Yeah, I'm just happy that know they're making music. it's ah i don't think people I think people take just like wrestling, I think people take things way too seriously. Yeah. yeah he I was going to a circle back to
Meeting Chester Bennington and Impact of Music
01:25:11
Speaker
that. i mean he I think people just like to be miserable.
01:25:16
Speaker
and ah you can't replace him but you can't read it's like Trust me, look, what? I can't. When I ignore that when i was years old, I was in the Lincoln Park Fan Club. I met the band. I was obsessed. Oh, really? You met you've had Chester. Yeah, I met Chester. Yeah. I mean, it was like two. It was right before Meteora came out 2000. But like.
01:25:42
Speaker
I love that, I love him specifically. yeah i but I listen to everything that Chester's ever put out, his old band, Grey Days, all this stuff. I listened, because he's more my style. ah yeah And his voice was like no other. So like like, I always joke when I talk about this is like, if you go on my Instagram explore feed,
01:26:09
Speaker
It's all Chester stuff. It's crazy. that's how much like i'll i like just That's how much I click into the stuff, or I listen to it, or I talk. like That was like one of the hardest celebrity more celebrity deaths, whatever you want to call it, for me personally, is just because like I kind of, it's not to get too deep, but like when they were putting out some of their newer stuff, I was kind of like not a fan of it.
01:26:37
Speaker
And I feel I wish I could go back, you know, and because now as an older person, I'm older now and I appreciate the music that they put out more now than I did then. Just because I i think when you get older, different sounds do different things to you. Like, yeah, when I was 17, 18, I wasn't liking the direction they were going in. But now I'm 38, and I listen to it, and I'm like, oh, this isn't really bad. This is pretty good. So like, I just wish I could have saw them more in those years that I didn't. Because before that, i sove I've seen them live five times. And they were one of my favorite bands. And I just, it's one of those things you regret now, like,
01:27:25
Speaker
that you can't go back on, but he was a powerful voice. He's one of the best. yeah no No replacing him. It's just, it's different. And if you look at it as different and more of a, not tribute, but just a continuation of something different then there should be no problem. Like, oh, yeah, definitely people just people just like to comp complain. Yeah, right. Yeah, you, you and my wife would be like, best friends because she was, she was a huge Cheser fan. And like she, ah she even has on her arm, she has on her forearm, she has lift me up, let me go. nice So like if you read it this way, it's it's like, look me up. And if you read it the opposite of how they did, which is pretty cool. So that's how I've she was met a lot of people recently with LP related tattoos. It's pretty cool. Yeah. yeah But ah it's just one of those like for me, like going to that Brooklyn show like that they just did was like, it's cathartic, like to be able to sing those songs live again. And it's just, I don't know. I think it's cool.
01:28:34
Speaker
Yeah, no, definitely she uh, I think she's like she's like crying that when she uh, when uh He passed away and stuff. Oh, yeah I got no I got no shame in saying I was in tears for days I was I was a mess and I still I still am kind like it's it really I don't know it hit It hit me like harder than a lot of things. I don't know why um, I think just because it The moment, the timing of when Linkin Park came out and where I was in my life, I was 15, 16 years old. yeah doubt was That was my music. like that was my That was my voice.
01:29:09
Speaker
oh Yeah, it was a horrible day. Yeah. yeah ah yeah You can have you can kind of imagine like like how it was when, obviously, when Tupac died. and with Biggie Pass and Oracle Gain and what goes on? I love all those guys. Like I said, like Allison chains is my favorite band ever. but And I was and in 2002 or 2002 or 2001 when Lane Lane died. Like I was a fan, but so it still didn't hit me as hard because of I didn't grow up necessarily with that. Yes. Chester Chester, I grew up with. Yes.
01:29:51
Speaker
That's the voice to me. That was my voice. And yeah I think it's very different when you like, even though Allison chains is my favorite band, it's Chester's that identifies that moment in time for me, yes whether it be what I was going through in life or whatever it is, it's just, it's tough
Emotional Impact of Celebrity Deaths
01:30:11
Speaker
on things like that. But it's kind of like we're wrestling when like, you know, like when someone like, um,
01:30:19
Speaker
Eddie Guerrero or, uh, even like Brody Lee when, you know, like these guys struggling from, from, from our own generation, yeah from our own generations, when like your people that you actually grew up watching, yeah like they're not my, they're not necessarily my favorite wrestlers. Like, like macho man is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time. That was awesome that was hard for me it got me, but it was almost.
01:30:50
Speaker
I don't want to say it's harder, but like the Brody stuff was just... I was gut punching that up. Yeah, it's just so tough. it I think it all depends where you are in life and yeah where where your connection to them is in life and yeah all those things that mess with your mind. Yeah, it's your childhood yeah it's like especially like it messes with your your your your childhood and your nostalgia. Like for me, watching Monday Night Raw where, you know,
01:31:22
Speaker
Ultimate Warriors out there and his last promo ever in ring. And then the next day I was there. Yeah, we were that you were there for that. then too yeah i know I didn't go to that. I didn't go to that wrong. I was there for that role. Yeah. So like it's like like for me, you know, growing up, you know, going over the 80s and, you know, Ultimate Warriors, like one of my favorite wrestlers at the time. And, you know, he's a superhero. The next day, just like he was just on with the.
01:31:50
Speaker
that was it that was That was brutal. The crazy thing about the Macho Man Def for me was so he he had gotten to that car wreck in in Clearwater, Tampa, yeah and I was literally five miles from there at that point. wow I was there with my family on vacation because my brother lived there at the time. that's So I was literally maybe five miles, 10 miles away from the accident, give or take. And like when I heard about it, like
01:32:27
Speaker
Obviously I was crushed, but then like to be like, cause like literally everywhere we went, people were talking about it. And like that wouldn't have happened if I was in New York, like people would be mentioning it, but like there it was a thing because we were literally in the place that it happened. And it was just crazy. One of those things like for me, especially cause like I was always a macho man guy. I was never, I was never Hulkamania. I was never anything like that. Like yeah yeah macho was my guy. yeah I have,
01:32:55
Speaker
I have a macho man residence statue. I have a macho man painting above my fireplace. I am very much you every I have a display of Macho Man figures, like everyone that's ever come out. He's one of a kind. and so yeah his his He'll live on forever. I mean, especially with like, you know, what am i one of my good buddies of Macho verse. yeah they are know i said know I've seen him at House of Glory shows. yeah
01:33:26
Speaker
Yeah, he's uh, he's keep he's keeping the uh, he's keeping that alive I mean a lot of people are you can't I mean macho man's one of those it's one of those He's just gonna because of the because of the the visuals that he's created and yeah the voice and It's one of those guys that will just forever be embedded in everybody's mind. that Oh, yeah, you can't everyone does about your main impression for everyone. Yeah, that's why everyone says oh yeah would you hear that you think about thats it automatically that's why it's a little upsetting that like, you know, what's going on with like the WWE content now in terms of everything getting fragmented, like, yeah, a lot, a lot of people like if they don't wind up truly being on another a platform, like if Netflix doesn't eventually take it all on, yeah, then like,
01:34:13
Speaker
A lot of this stuff's not going to necessarily be lost because there's always YouTube, but like it's just not as easy for new fans to find stuff. Yeah.
Generational Shift in Wrestling Fandom
01:34:21
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. I just, you know, it's just, you don't want history to disappear. No, definitely, definitely not. Yeah. was one of those things That's the thing I worry about with the new generation of wrestling fans, because you can hear the way they talk and it's very much WWE pilled in terms of like,
01:34:40
Speaker
um like the way they do everything and it's kind of weird because like it's a I mentioned this to somebody else recently where like I feel like there's a dramatic shift happening and that's why WWE is doing so good now is that this generation of fans that have art that are like maybe 15 to 18 now all they know is WWE and it's Like, so they see whatever's happening now versus like, say, 2010. And ten yeah, this is the best ever. Like, where, in my opinion, there's some good stuff now, but it's not necessarily. To me, they the the brand shouldn't be as successful as it is, in theory, in my mind, because I don't think it's as good as it's being painted out to be. Yeah.
01:35:33
Speaker
So it's just this weird like shift in fandom, I think, like where the generations are just changing over and you're seeing more of our generation leaving completely and not being wrestling fans.
Evolution of Wrestling Styles
01:35:50
Speaker
And yeah and this newer generation kind of overtook our generation as being the majority. And I think it's changing the way wrestling is done, not done, but like just the the image and the aura of wrestling and what's considered good or normal or whatever. Again, everybody's inside of their opinions. I don't care. Yeah, but it's more so like it's a weird thing to see when you've lived through the eighties, nineties and now into this and this you can see the difference that these aren't the same. These aren't the yes movement fans.
01:36:27
Speaker
No, definitely not. It's very it's very different. And yeah i don't I don't even know, at least from my personal life and from the last 20 years, I don't even know that many people still watching in general. So yeah you can tell that it's like this overtaking of a generational shift and just hope that you know the history continues on with it. Oh, yeah, definitely. Because I because i know me. like When I was watching like the 90s, I was watching all the tapes from the 80s. Like i wanted I wanted to know the history and I wanted to watch everything. yeah I don't know if this generation has the attention span for it. To do that, yeah that's yeah. It's just, there's so much out there now and you have phones and computers and all this stuff that takes up your time. And it's just a totally different way of consuming the stuff.
01:37:24
Speaker
Yeah and you you kind of hit me with like kind of like an epiphany because I think it's kind of like up to us as the that like like you say kind of like that as generation before to like do stuff like with me on like on my Instagram I'll post a lot of like I'll try to find like you know obviously current wrestling if it's current it's like you know behind the scenes stuff but like I try to find like a lot of old old wrestling clips and I don't like this uh you know like wild bars and hooks he does that like I that's what i like belong like Justin's page the wrestling classic like Yeah, yep, I can't collaborate with him on a lot of things. Like all his stuff is cool because like he'll do his throwbacks and he'll show the old stuff and like, yeah, being that new people, new people see some of that stuff like macho man, like he always post macho man stuff.
01:38:12
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. Like, like I'll find, and like i I find with him, like, I'll know, like, if, ah like, if I'm looking for a clip, I can kind of almost gauge which one he's got to, because I'll add him as a collaborator on some of the clips that I do.
01:38:27
Speaker
and i kind of I can kind of almost see which one he's going to like accept as a collaboration because it's something that's like that's that's like new and refreshing. It's not going to be the same thing. A lot of Bret Hart stuff, definitely. I was going to bring him on next too. him on too because Bret, to me, is like that classic divide, I think. like I don't know if newer fans would get Bret Hart.
01:38:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, yeah, weird it's a weird thing because he was pretty plain. Yeah. But he was also great. He was the best. And, you know, he wasn't Shawn Michaels in terms of like the theatrical. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was like you. But that's what I mean. Like everybody loves Shawn Michaels still. I mean, Brett obviously faded into the background because of his health and different things, whatever. Yeah. so but I don't know if this new generation would even get, understand Bret Hart in terms of that character or like, is it's like Cody in a way, the character, um in a sense of being the ultimate baby face, but the wrestling style is very different.
01:39:48
Speaker
Oh yeah. And I don't know if the fans would see that as entertaining necessarily because the same, the majority of fans don't really like the technical wrestling anymore as much as they like the high spots and all that stuff. Yeah. See, I was always one of those guys that thought you can take Bret Hart and take Shawn Michaels and kind of put him in any i thank you i think you I think you could because both of them would adapt to whatever's new. yeah but i but But I don't know if if Brett was still Brett in today's wrestling landscape. with have Would the fans accept him? and And by that, I mean in the WWE world, mostly. Because I think outside of that, I think there's more open-mindedness about styles.
01:40:42
Speaker
But you just see the way like, like you hear it all the time about like the people talking about like guys like Osprey and Ricochet yeah and talking about the pr ah choreography and all that stuff. yeah Well, did they not watch Ray Mysterio?
01:40:59
Speaker
Yeah, no, they did. They definitely did. So it's just this weird thing, you know, like Ray Mysterio was a lucha guy and like we had hologram. We had a hologram match on last night on dynamite and.
01:41:13
Speaker
That's a lucha guy and there's no real difference between the styles. yeah It's just different, obviously a little different, but Rey Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero, the matches that they had, everybody everybody talks about still to this day yeah are not not that different than a Ricochet and Osprey match. Exactly, yeah. just It's just a different change in styles. But yeah in terms of the story, the story's there on both of them.
01:41:42
Speaker
But these people just want to keep isolating just because Osprey and Ricochet, what they do looks so much cleaner. Yeah. I think it's it's just less of that scruff to it. You know what I mean? Like it's nice. It's more polished. Yeah, it's more polished.
01:42:07
Speaker
where, where Raymond's theory of the girl, obviously they were the best at what they do, but yeah it just felt more raw. Yeah. intent No pun intended. And that's how, yeah, that's how, yeah that's how I like, you know, Brett Hart was obviously the use called the excellence of execution. Cause like you said, if you watch his matches, he was, he was the same way. He was very, he was very polished, but at the same time it looked rough.
01:42:32
Speaker
But you couldn't tell the difference because he was a master at his craft. He didn't know if he was really hurting someone, which he probably could have been. But you wouldn't know because he was so perfect at that, like his style to the point where it was like, is it real or not? Pretty much, you know, not just in the ring, even cutting promos and stuff. No, it that's the thing. And I was like, when you had him and Shawn Michaels, like two different, totally different styles. Yeah.
01:43:01
Speaker
Not a whole lot of people talk about Shawn Michaels the way like they talk about Will Osprey today. Like in terms of like, I'm saying like the total like um disconnect, like of saying Osprey is this spot monkey or whatever you want to call it. Like, do we not see what Shawn Michaels used to do? He was doing that stuff too, hip yeah. It was just that, it was just that generation of it. Like obviously he wasn't doing what Osprey, like Osprey is doing crazy shit, but like yeah it's it's more so,
01:43:32
Speaker
It's, it's more so the fact that in the time, in that time and place, they're kind of equal and yeah. Yep. And people see it as completely different when it's really not. And I think that's one of the biggest, biggest problems in the industry is people that just overanalyze things that they don't even understand or yeah. Or.
01:43:56
Speaker
I don't know, it's just weird. like when you When you look back and you see, like I think the lucha stuff is one of the best examples of it because we have a lot of lucha guys in AEW and there's lucha guys in NXT and WWE too.
Influence of Lucha Libre
01:44:11
Speaker
But like if you look at what was happening in WCW,
01:44:15
Speaker
and everybody loves the Cruiserweight division at WCW, how is that any different than what you're trashing today? you know exactly No, it's just pretty much the same thing. like you and That's that's one of the weird it's one of the weirdest things to me. It's like, what are we like what are we doing here? like How can this be so good, but yet this is so bad? It makes no sense. It's that weird. then at all So we're done. Yeah, I don't get that, especially like like you said with the tech technical wrestling, because you have like, you know, ZSJ, obviously you have, you know, Brian Daniels sends a great even Daniel sends a great example, too, because there's a lot of people that talk, talk stuff about, you know, don't like what bre what Brian does. Yeah, that's what right har was just an elevate. He's just an elevated version of what Brett was doing.
01:45:05
Speaker
He's pretty much, a he's like a, to me, he's like a mashup of Sean and Brett. Cause he does like high flying stuff as well, but he still has that like hard edge. Well, to me, like he's just the ultimate hybrid of a lot of guys. He's just, he's just.
01:45:22
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I can do the reverse with him. I can. I feel like you put Brian Danielson in any era. Yeah, he's in a he's in a he's in a portion in the 80s. Maybe maybe he's maybe him even more so than Brett in ways just because he's kind of like that evolution of just because of his thought the rough style that he has where Brett has more. Brett was more about protecting his opponents and himself. Yeah, we're we're Brian is a little more strong style, so like.
01:45:51
Speaker
he'd fit in more with that older 60s like wrestling like yeah yeah they like you know the grappling and if he needed to he can he can high fly if he needed to if he wanted to speed it up and brawl he could do that as well and uh it's one of those like weird things or it's like You can, like I said, you kind of like reverse engineer a lot of not, not every single wrestler can, you can, you know, pick them up from this time and put them into like, there are, there's I mean, there's a, like I said, it's pretty much a handful of like, but that right danielson that's what I.
01:46:24
Speaker
But that's why I say it's such a weird thing that people will isolate the modern guys, but protect the older guys. Yeah, yeahs that's a weird dynamic. I don't think they completely crap on everything like they could obviously 80s 80s stuff. that Right. Obviously, they're not thinking of this stuff. But like, if they sat down and and looked at it or thought about it a little bit, and yeahp like watched an Osprey match and then watched a Mysterio match from 97 or 96. Yeah, you'd be like, say or an ECW match for that matter. I was just going to say, I was just going to say like Mysterio, Mysterio stuff in ECW before he even got signed to them. so Psychosis, Ultimo Dragon. um like like dave And they all can do, they all did what Osprey is doing now, which is just elevated action stories. Yeah.
01:47:14
Speaker
It's not necessarily like a storyline, but there's a story in the match and if and and you just gotta follow it. they're they're like Every match, every big match Osprey's had this year, there's a story in it. Yeah, people will say there's no story at all. yeah yeah It's the weirdest thing.
01:47:30
Speaker
It makes sense. Well, there was another the other guy who to Guerrero. All of them, although the guys in terms of the of it, if you place them now, if they just debut now, everybody would say they're they're spot monkeys. And yeah, yeah, it's all choreography and different things like it. What are we doing? Yeah. Dude, Kidman to Billy Kidman was really great. One of the one of the best. He's trying. He know that's why he became an agent in WWE because he's so good. Yeah.
01:48:00
Speaker
Yeah, it's crazy.
Career Journey and Perseverance
01:48:01
Speaker
That is a that's a very, uh, that was a very good conversation. Actually, I never thought of, uh, I never, you it was like one of those things that's out there. Like it's like, as it when obviously like us, we watch wrestling for a long time. And so it's like, we have that idea of like, why is, why are people like complaining about this when they were doing this back then? But that's never really the discussion. It's like, it's one of the weirdest things to me. Like, and a lot of these people are people that were watching that stuff.
01:48:28
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. i So it's not, we're not talking about, I'm not even talking about the new generation of fans. I'm talking about people that were alive watching WW in the 90s and people that are watching AW now and thinking that Will Ospreay is ruining the business.
01:48:43
Speaker
Yeah, have you watched any other? Have you watched a Riva cereal match? It makes no sense. No, it's hard dis still coming. It all comes back. It all comes back to the tribalism and just like people wanting to tear stuff down and there's no reason to. Yeah, we tried out to what I do is, you know, I try not to preach any type of. ah Any type of, you know, tribalism or favoritism among like different, you know, reasons to show wrestlers like when someone leaves one company and goes to another one and you're a fan of that person, you should be happy that that person is still on TV to see that person. so and And if you like them enough, then you'll watch them anywhere. Exactly. Ricochet.
01:49:23
Speaker
love love the familiesies at a ew Love the fact Love the fact that you're going to get to see banger matches. In in the 90s, I love Rob Van Dam. And i didn't I didn't always have access to see Rob Van Dam matches. But I would find a way to get to see Rob Van Dam. Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. because yeah And now it's easier than ever. Even if you don't want to watch the full shows, you can watch so much on on demand, on YouTube, whatever it is.
01:49:51
Speaker
There's no reason. People, like I said, people just like to complain. Oh, yeah, definitely. um I think that's I think that's it. Actually, I have one more question for you. So before you before I let you go. So as far as like your your brand is concerned, what you're doing now, what do you what do you see yourself in the future as far as, you know, young how we do you see yourself like you know five years from now, we'll say like.
01:50:16
Speaker
i I don't necessarily see myself as a brand, obviously. But like it's more so I try. I want to keep doing what I'm doing, obviously. But obviously, I want to take be able to expand, like we were talking about, like doing more BTS, doing portraits, doing different things that I'm not used to. It's more about pushing myself to those goals.
01:50:42
Speaker
And in terms of where I wanna, you know, it'd be great to still be in AEW, obviously, or making money in wrestling in general. yeah um But, you know, and for me, what I'm doing now, I'm just like, I can't believe it still. So it's like, I'm happy. And like, I i say ah say this to people, like, the fact that I get to go to these shows,
01:51:08
Speaker
yeah like these paper views and like they i would have flew I would have flew myself out there yeah and i I would have shot it or attended it as a fan and now I'm getting paid to do it. And my travel is taken care of and all this stuff and and I'm like, this is just a crazy world. so um and if you know down the road obviously I still want to be doing this I want to just keep you know one of my big things that I've always said like when I'm asked advice and things is to never stop learning never stop trying to learn um because if you're if you're doing something like photography and you stop learning or stop evolving yeah then you're then you're not really a photographer you're not you're not doing anything then you're you're
01:51:57
Speaker
I and literally, in the last two weeks, changed the way like certain aspects of my editing. Because I'm learning as I go still. Because I'm changing and I'm evolving and I want i want to get better. and when And when you're working with the people that you like I work with, I'm comparing myself to them. So I want to be as good as them or better.
01:52:23
Speaker
um And I try to give advice to people as much as I can. And that's it's all I really want to do. And like in the next few years is just keep doing what I'm doing and hopefully help a few more people out because a lot of people help me get to
Importance of Learning and Sharing
01:52:44
Speaker
where I am. And like I always say to people like It's why like, you know, anybody DMS me and ask questions about photography or anything, even about like just getting press credentials and things like that. I try to give as much advice as I can. Yeah. Because it was given to me and I was helped a lot along the way. And I think that I don't think anything should be gate kept, you know, like there shouldn't be gatekeepers for anything like it should be.
01:53:17
Speaker
If you have the knowledge, you should spread the knowledge. um And it's just important to me to try to be you know paid forward and and give back as much as was given to me. ah Agreed. I just want to stay try to stay positive, which is not always easy for me, but that's what I want to do the next few years is try to stay positive. yeah It's not always easy. you know some you know When you're in a creative field, um yeah maybe for you too, you know they they call it ah imposter syndrome. yeah it It hits you sometimes and like you doubt yourself. and ye Me, all the other guys at AEW, we all go through it and it's normal and I just got to keep telling myself it's normal.
01:54:11
Speaker
And then we all have good weeks and bad weeks and just got to keep pushing forward. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, I could definitely relate to any all that stuff. You definitely hit those points. I was like, ah, what the heck? why why Why am I doing this? There's so many other people out there doing this type of thing. You know what? You just get out. But one last thing, one last thing. But before before I got them, the four AW contacted me.
01:54:39
Speaker
I literally had drafts in my Twitter account about quitting. Oh, wow. I was this close to being done. I didn't want to do it anymore. It wasn't worth it. I was putting so much money into it. I was having fun at the shows, but it was just, it was not getting me anywhere. It was costing me a lot of money. I just didn't keep i couldn't keep up with it.
01:55:03
Speaker
And again, it was that close. sort I swear, I'm not even lying. I had drafts and ah then I get the message and then everything changes. So when you're, it's perfectly normal to have those doubts and it's perfectly normal to even quit. It's about the reasons.
01:55:26
Speaker
of why you're doing what you're doing. So if you feel you've gotten to that point, then yeah, you should, because nothing is worth sacrificing your mental health for. Yeah, definitely. and Or your financial well-being, whatever it is. like For me, that's where I was at. I was just over it completely, because i sort people getting I saw people getting chances, and I wasn't getting chances. And I was like, it's never going to come back around. So why am I bothering?
01:55:55
Speaker
but then, you know, stuck it out for a little longer and boom. So that's my message to the world. It's just never like as cliche as it sounds. It's like, it's, it's, for me, it's like a, it's a crazy storybook thing, how, how my journey went really yeah with Cody kind of lighting the flame under me. And then a bunch of things that happened like,
01:56:23
Speaker
there was there's a point where I almost stopped doing AEW shows completely because of certain politics and certain things that was happening. yeah And I just, and I kept fighting for it and I kept doing it. And that's, you know, I try to tell that to other people because there's a lot of people now that, because everybody can get a camera, everybody could shoot pictures.
01:56:47
Speaker
Everybody wants the instant success. yep And it's ah and even even me, I started like seven years ago. That's a short timeframe. The people I work with been doing this for 15 and 20 years. wow just because you're Just because you're doing it or you think you're doing it good,
01:57:13
Speaker
doesn't mean that you should just skip the lines, so to speak. yo yeah yeah definitely you need You need to still work and build those connections. And there's a lot of people now that want ins instant gratification just because they see what others are doing. And I think that's the biggest problem with social media is yeah so many people look like they're successful, but they're not really successful. And those type of things put thoughts into other people's heads.
Balancing Creativity and Collaboration
01:57:46
Speaker
And then they try to basically not skip the line because there is no line, but it's more so like have patience, learn what you're doing. And if it's going to happen, it's going to happen. You don't, you can't just force your way through it. It's, yeah you gotta, um, you gotta just have patience.
01:58:06
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. i mean you shouldn't like Like I said, you shouldn't sacrifice your well-being, but you also need to have patience because there's so many people that I see, like, I'm not going to name names, obviously, but there's so many people that just like, oh, i you know, um I'm going to shoot a WrestleMania next year or whatever, like,
01:58:31
Speaker
No, you're not. or or Or you shouldn't because you're just not ready. Like don't don like like I said earlier, like I wasn't ready in 2019 to work with AEW then. yeah i yeah Now I am. yep So like there's a huge difference. And if you can't see that, then yeah probably you're probably going to lose at some point. Yep. No, I totally agree. that's a I mean, that's a great message.
01:58:59
Speaker
Um, to end off the show, definitely. I mean, you gotta, you gotta to keep pushing forward. Nothing, nothing's, you know, people see the, uh, the end result. They never see the, you know, the journey to get to that. that of thejo Yeah. So did you, do you want to take those experiences along the way? And that's, that's what's going to make you or break you depending on which way you go. If you don't have those experiences, you're never, you're you're not going to have anything to apply to your craft because.
01:59:28
Speaker
What are you basing everything off of? like yeah you just There's no experience there. yep Then you're just going to either fail or you're going to be taken advantage of. or there's so many It's just a bad situation for you and the people that are working with you. Yeah, man.
01:59:47
Speaker
That's that's awesome, man. Thank you for now you for know that that. That was actually a great way to to end the show. Just said that type of message. I felt like you were like talking to me directly. I'm like, did I give up? I mean, to like not like I said, that's the thing with like, that's the thing with what any of us do is it's all creative stuff. It's all. Yeah, it's all we're doing it for ourselves a lot. And there's often not a lot of money in it. And yeah.
02:00:14
Speaker
There's two sides to the coin. It's either you're gonna do it and be patient and make it work, or it's gonna break you down and then you're gonna wanna quit. yeah But then there's the middle ground of trying to make all that balance out and trying to get somewhere. It's all bo it's all balancing act. Everybody's different. Yeah, but's it's one of those things where you can't be,
02:00:42
Speaker
You can't think too much about it. You just get a. Especially nowadays with content, you just get to do it and put it out, because if you like it, think about it too much. You're not going to. It's like you're not going to do anything. You're just going to. You're going to have a bunch of drafts with a bunch of so stuff that you did that you're never going to release too much. There's too much to compare yourself to. Just throw it. Just do it. yeah Put it out there. Everybody's always comparing. Yeah, you know, it's I'm guilty of it too, but like.
02:01:10
Speaker
Oh, yeah, we all I mean, we all compare like, oh, man, I wish I did that. Oh, that's a good idea. I told someone on the show that I wish I did, you know, started off like the way they did their social media because I was like, I was like, damn. And they were like, why not? Just just do it. There's plenty of room for everybody to do it. I was like, you know what? That's that's the thing. It's like it's all a matter of.
02:01:33
Speaker
who you're talking to and who you're working with. But at the end of the day, we should all be you know working together with this stuff. because Oh yeah, definitely. There's too much too much negativity and gatekeeping with this stuff. Yeah, I would definitely i would definitely say, yeah definitely garner, you know create those relationships as much as you can. like it yeah Become friends with people, chat. I obviously do on this show and you know interview and and things like think you like I think I'm almost at like 40 episodes, which is even crazier to think because I didn't even think I'd make it past like two or three. But have just like, you know, you'll get those relationships and interview with these you know different people and learn about their processes and taking like, you know, not just interviewing them for like, you know, just to put it out so people can hear it, but like, even
02:02:21
Speaker
taking like I'm going to take stuff from what you said um you in this conversation. and yeah That's what I have to like what I'm doing and stuff like that. So it's like what you know like I always like took advice from so many people. Like there's people that I work with now that gave me advice seven years ago. Yeah. That type of stuff comes full circle. And then you you ah you apply all that to different things in your life. It's not just what you're doing. You can apply it to a billion things, but like these, you know,
02:02:50
Speaker
You shouldn't be going about things thinking that you know everything or you or you're ready for everything because yeah then you're just going to fall flat on your face. Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah, trust me. I was one of those people that but this you put this show off like when it first when I first wanted to do something like this where yeah I want to interview like content creators and things like that. I put it off so many like i mean almost like a year because i was just like nah i was like i was like what the hell am i gonna do am i gonna get enough people to interview am i gonna like just like doubt and doubt and doubt and just going like i'm not gonna do it and then finally i was like you know what let me just
02:03:28
Speaker
grab somebody like I think I interviewed my wife first she was like the the pilot so I had her like I did that and then like the very very first episode I did it without chick Foley she knows my you know you know close friend and uh and podcast partner so it's like a full circle moment when it hit her right how did we get here talk to her and stuff like that that's how you do stuff like that is you work with the people that you know first and yeah and you and you build from there So some of the beginning people were like people I knew and I liked it because obviously we're all connected by wrestling. But with this show, I get to learn about other aspects of my real life. How'd you start? What brought you into this? What made you want to do content creation?
02:04:13
Speaker
what What caused you to go like, you know, what I'm just gonna put my life out there and you know express my ideas and things like that so like that's what that's what really got me to do the show because I follow a lot of people and I'm like I Interact them. I like their posts or I comment and I'm like but I want to know more. I want to know like why yeah why they got into this space. what what you know where the Where were they at that moment where they're like, you know what? I'm just going to do this. so like And just like interviewing and following so many people, I was just like, I'm just going to reach out and say, like hey,
02:04:44
Speaker
do you want to interview? Because I really want to, you know, really want to talk to you. And that's basically, and that's basically what I did. Like when I said I took that line in the sand to 2021, when I said I reached out to companies and it was like, I'll shoot you show, but I want to access. I'm not buying tickets. You know, it's the same kind of thing where you're just saying like,
02:05:06
Speaker
I want to expand upon what I'm doing or can do. Yeah. It's all about taking those next steps. And yeah, sometimes, sometimes things don't change. Sometimes they change drastically. Yep. But you don't know unless you do it. So no, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, that's how it should go. But Yeah, that that's that that's it, man. I mean, that was this is a great great interview. You're a great guest. I thank you its good stuff wholeheartedly for actually doing this. i don't get It was almost basically a year of building. It's longer here longer and longer than most mania builds and stuff. I know, right? that There's like a storied interview that actually happened. so But yeah, I mean, like I said, it's
02:05:51
Speaker
um but thankful that you you you hopped on. I'm always thankful for anyone that yeah wants to sit down and and just like you know talk and stuff like that. But where can everyone find you? Give everyone the air your plans. Scottless724 on any platform that there is, I mean, pretty much you know just follow me, like, share,
02:06:13
Speaker
And I hope you enjoy the photos. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely check them out. Like guess I said, great photography. I mean, that's why, you know, that's why, I mean, that's why this took a year to get going. Cause he's a very busy, busy man. also very tired I'm also very tired, man. Yeah. yeah so Obviously there's a lot of, you know, a lot of stuff happening right now in the wrestling world. and You know, he's out there bringing it to life for you. Um, in photo form anyway, but, uh, yeah, definitely same here. I mean, check out, check out the MVP Marco everywhere. Uh, obviously check fully.com. Like I said at the beginning and, uh, that's it. We'll, uh, we'll talk to everyone soon. and Later.