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Don’t Fall For Hobosexual Sob Stories
33 Plays3 years ago
Twitter explodes into a discussion on just how bad women should feel for homeless men.
https://twitter.com/blackwomensday/status/1579536517516886016?s=20&t=16-TM9esdQEPJyTLTwILOg
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Transcript
Introduction and Episode Topic
00:00:06
Speaker
What's up, queens?
Twitter Incident and Societal Views
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:00:11
Speaker
I'm Ro.
00:00:12
Speaker
I'm Savannah.
00:00:13
Speaker
And I'm Lola.
00:00:14
Speaker
All right, so today's episode, we're going to talk about hobosexuals.
00:00:19
Speaker
And also, homosexuals in the context of the larger homelessness problem, because there was some discussion on our Twitter accounts in the past week, or at least, I don't know, a little do you actually explain what happened between a very prominent Twitter user who talked about her experience with homeless men, and then there became like a huge blow up on Twitter about just how sorry should we feel for transient homeless men.
Male Victimhood in Homelessness
00:00:43
Speaker
Yeah, so the context of this discussion or the events leading us to make this episode, basically.
00:00:50
Speaker
So last week on Twitter, one of my Twitter mutuals, Planet of Jaw, she tweeted, I hate homeless men.
00:00:57
Speaker
I don't give a fuck.
00:00:58
Speaker
I was just in Dunkin' Donuts.
00:00:59
Speaker
And when I went up to order, some homeless man came up asking me to buy him some food.
00:01:03
Speaker
And when he saw I wasn't going to do that, he got mad angry and literally put his hands in my face and pushed my head.
00:01:09
Speaker
bro, when I tell you I saw red.
00:01:10
Speaker
And then she has a whole thread basically explaining that she later gave money to a homeless woman and that that guy got really, really angry.
00:01:20
Speaker
And she got hugely dogpiled.
00:01:23
Speaker
At the time that I took a screenshot, it was almost 1,300 quote tweets.
00:01:28
Speaker
She had almost 4,000 likes though.
00:01:30
Speaker
So that's pretty good.
00:01:30
Speaker
Not a bad ratio, not a terrible ratio.
00:01:33
Speaker
But yeah, a lot of people on Twitter were hating her for it.
00:01:35
Speaker
And, you know, we're going into her history, trying to dox her, you know, posting pictures of her face, like adding her to lists like people I'm going to rob, you know, stuff like that.
00:01:45
Speaker
Really like, you know, Twitter harassment.
00:01:47
Speaker
Right.
00:01:48
Speaker
And I posted a tweet, you know, saying that she was based for posting this, basically.
00:01:52
Speaker
And she went on private, basically, to avoid getting harassed on Twitter.
00:01:56
Speaker
We wanted to talk about how she made a few good points, basically.
00:01:59
Speaker
Points were made.
00:02:00
Speaker
Points were made.
00:02:01
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:02:02
Speaker
She wasn't wrong.
00:02:03
Speaker
She didn't lie.
00:02:04
Speaker
I was actually quite surprised by the backlash to that tweet and just how many people, including people who haven't had much interaction with homeless men, were just blindly defending, like not just the homeless man, but homeless men in general.
00:02:19
Speaker
And I just think it's such a nuanced...
00:02:22
Speaker
and complex discussion that I wasn't really seeing on Twitter and anybody who, like myself, even suggested that actually there's an other side to it.
00:02:30
Speaker
They were just, you know, called a nasty person.
00:02:33
Speaker
You shouldn't be working with them.
00:02:34
Speaker
I was like, yeah, I know.
00:02:35
Speaker
That's why I quit.
Gender Differences and Safety Issues
00:02:36
Speaker
And I've been so much happier ever since I quit.
00:02:38
Speaker
But like, that's not like an L. Like I got out of it.
00:02:41
Speaker
So...
00:02:42
Speaker
The homelessness conversation is the last bastion of male victimhood, right?
00:02:46
Speaker
Like that's the place where they most often claim that they're the most victimized and use this evidence that men are discriminated against in society.
00:02:53
Speaker
And I think this episode, we're going to try to dismantle a lot of that false information about like why some men end up homeless.
00:03:00
Speaker
And then like the idea that they are the victims in this situation and therefore like above criticism on their behavior is
00:03:07
Speaker
Which I think what Planet of Jaw was trying to discuss is saying that, like, listen, a lot of them are violent.
00:03:12
Speaker
A lot of them are dangerous.
00:03:13
Speaker
And it's a completely different ballpark of pathologies when you're dealing with homeless men versus homeless women.
00:03:20
Speaker
Yeah, 100%.
00:03:22
Speaker
And I want to point out the very interesting linguistic sleight of hand that was being played here where she said she didn't like homeless men.
00:03:30
Speaker
And every single person who was hating on her was saying like, oh, you hate the homeless.
00:03:34
Speaker
You hate homeless people.
00:03:36
Speaker
And I want to say that
00:03:37
Speaker
I only give money to homeless women.
00:03:40
Speaker
I never use cash except I carry 20s in my wallet to give out to sad-looking homeless women because I just want her to have some money and that she doesn't have to prostitute herself for
Systemic Causes of Homelessness in the UK
00:03:52
Speaker
it.
00:03:52
Speaker
A lot of women living on the streets do have to, unfortunately, do really fucked-up, dangerous things to get money.
00:03:59
Speaker
A lot of men sexually exploit them, sadly.
00:04:02
Speaker
And this is a completely different ballpark.
00:04:05
Speaker
Homeless women are...
00:04:07
Speaker
nowhere near as much of a threat to women as homeless men.
00:04:10
Speaker
Homeless men are a danger to, you know, it's not a class-based thing.
00:04:13
Speaker
Like, even if you're wealthy, you could just be running down the street or something and some homeless man could attack you.
00:04:18
Speaker
And that's an area of, like, male privilege, not male victimhood, in my opinion.
00:04:24
Speaker
Right.
00:04:24
Speaker
A lot of crimes are committed by men who are usually described as transient.
00:04:29
Speaker
Right.
00:04:29
Speaker
Especially the smash and grab sex crimes are like the.
00:04:33
Speaker
And in fact, there was like just a huge case in the news recently, because I think one woman who was a daughter of someone who was extremely wealthy in the United States, like she was jogging.
00:04:43
Speaker
She was.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yeah, she was abducted and murdered by a homeless person.
00:04:46
Speaker
So there's just a lot of, there's just like a massive difference in why some of these men end up on the fringes of society.
00:04:53
Speaker
And it's not all because, you know, they're down to their luck.
00:04:55
Speaker
Like some of them are legit sociopaths and drug addicts and people that for whatever reason, we can't effectively integrate in society because they are too mentally and emotionally unwell or and or dangerous.
00:05:08
Speaker
Yeah, but there's definitely, I wanted to touch on the like systemic issues as well, because they are definitely present, you know, things, you know, such as being in care at a young age, you know, lack of opportunities, access, you know, to jobs, to education, these can all be systemic factors.
00:05:28
Speaker
And especially in the UK as well, our benefit system, or our welfare system, as you Americans say.
00:05:34
Speaker
I guess I'm trying to say for some people, it doesn't actually, they earn more money on benefits by not working than actually being in work.
00:05:41
Speaker
So for example, at the hostel I worked at, if they didn't have a job, they would get their food, everything, you know, paid for by the state.
00:05:49
Speaker
Whereas if they then got a job, they would then have to pay like 1500 pounds a month for a room in a shithole.
00:05:56
Speaker
So it's like, if I was in that situation, I just wouldn't work because if I can get a shithole for free, why would I pay for it?
00:06:02
Speaker
like £1,500 a month and that was like three times my rent when I was like living in the area as well so and I don't actually blame them for choosing not to work or for working you know cash in hand so they avoided the tax amount because it made more economic sense for them to just not work if they then had to pay £1,500 out of their wages which it wasn't like they were earning like loads and loads of money because oftentimes a lot of them were just in menial jobs or they weren't earning loads of money so I can see why they would do that then and just decide
US Systemic Issues and Homelessness
00:06:32
Speaker
not to
00:06:32
Speaker
work.
00:06:32
Speaker
And in a way, in that sense, the system then just sets them up to fail because if you then get comfortable not working, the longer you're out of work, it becomes more difficult to get back into work and then you become trapped in the poverty cycle because the benefit system, it will never pay enough for you to have a life.
00:06:49
Speaker
It will just pay for you to survive in a lot of cases.
00:06:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:52
Speaker
And this is a bit different than the United States, which is very state by state when it comes to quote unquote benefits and generally is focused on single mothers.
00:07:02
Speaker
There's not as many eligible benefits for single unattached men.
00:07:07
Speaker
For able-bodied men.
00:07:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:09
Speaker
Good.
00:07:10
Speaker
I'm glad they don't get any benefits.
00:07:12
Speaker
Well, okay.
00:07:12
Speaker
So this is why it becomes like somewhat controversial because of the fact that we don't have nearly as strong as a social safety net as parts of Europe, right?
00:07:22
Speaker
So when we talk about who all is in the homeless, there's poor, right?
00:07:26
Speaker
But then there's also a lot of people who are mentally ill that we don't have public services for them to attend.
00:07:34
Speaker
People who are drug addicts that they can't necessarily afford rehab because we don't necessarily add all those things as a public service either or
00:07:40
Speaker
So sometimes it's a little bit tough to have this conversation, especially with people who are like big homeless advocates, etc.
00:07:46
Speaker
Because we really don't have a lot of options, even for people who maybe in good faith don't want to be transient anymore.
00:07:54
Speaker
But that's not the but that's not the entire story.
00:07:56
Speaker
Because the people that are just more or less poor, especially single able bodied men who are just poor, and they don't have like some kind of mental or emotional issues such that like they scare people away and or like have alienated
Understanding 'Hobosexuals'
00:08:09
Speaker
people.
00:08:09
Speaker
the people around them, they tend not to be transient or homeless nearly as long as these other group of men who have like serious biological problems.
00:08:16
Speaker
But then you also have to be worried about them somewhat because like, I feel like that demographic of like the sane enough to talk to women, but not insane enough to be a permanent transient person.
00:08:26
Speaker
Like that's the hobosexual population.
00:08:28
Speaker
Those are the men that are trying to like talk to you and like sweet talk their way into your situation.
00:08:32
Speaker
Right.
00:08:32
Speaker
And you'll find a lot of guys who got out of jail who were in that population too.
00:08:35
Speaker
So you have a lot of men who went to jail for some crime.
00:08:39
Speaker
It's harder for men who come out of jail to get apartments, to get jobs, to get benefits, et cetera.
00:08:44
Speaker
So they then need to either live usually in their car or someplace where they have relatives, or if they don't have anything like that, they'll have to rely on women to support them.
00:08:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:55
Speaker
Quite literally, if you go on YouTube and listen to interviews with these ex-cons and stuff, and a lot of them just straight up say that, oh, they just start pen pal relationships with overweight women while they're in jail so that they have a place to go.
00:09:07
Speaker
Or older women, so they have a place to go when they come out of jail.
00:09:10
Speaker
So that population of homeless men, that's like the homosexual one.
00:09:15
Speaker
And once again, since they're ex-cons, and if it's anything other than like some of the unfair draconian drug laws in the United States, which again, which is why people feel bad for them because some people went to jail for 10 years for like small amounts of marijuana.
00:09:26
Speaker
So there's that population and they are kind of predatory on women because they can at least talk to women like a normal person.
00:09:33
Speaker
But then there's
Challenges in Managing Hostels
00:09:34
Speaker
the other ones that are just, they're too far gone to be integrated in society and any type of easy, feasible way.
00:09:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:41
Speaker
Even within like the homeless hostels, you always had like the men because there wasn't very many women.
00:09:47
Speaker
But I remember there was one lady.
00:09:48
Speaker
She was always she just always had money.
00:09:50
Speaker
Like she her rent was always paid on time.
00:09:52
Speaker
I know that's a low bar to set, but she was actually in credit on her rent account.
00:09:56
Speaker
She always had money.
00:09:57
Speaker
And there was this ex-con who was like 30 years younger than her and started a relationship with her and basically just to get her money, basically.
00:10:06
Speaker
So even in these hostel situations, the same dynamics happen as well.
00:10:10
Speaker
I hate stories about men being mooches on women because these men don't even treat these women very well.
00:10:16
Speaker
A lot of the time these men are like go after women that they consider like that society might deem like undesirable.
00:10:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:22
Speaker
Like, so, you know, maybe overweight, maybe she's like older than him or something like that.
00:10:26
Speaker
And you know, they'll get in this relationship and if she ever tries to assert a boundary or something, he'll be like, well, no other man would want you.
00:10:32
Speaker
Like I'm the only man who wants you, that kind of stuff.
00:10:34
Speaker
And like manipulating her abandonment issues, shit like that.
00:10:37
Speaker
Right.
00:10:37
Speaker
Like,
00:10:37
Speaker
I see that sort of thing play out all the time and it just makes me so angry.
00:10:41
Speaker
And it makes it really hard for me to feel compassion for these men because I know that if they had an opportunity to exploit a woman, it almost doesn't matter to me if this man is exploited.
00:10:50
Speaker
I know that if he had a chance, he would exploit a woman.
00:10:52
Speaker
And so I just need to cut off my ability to feel compassion for them because they manipulate that compassion.
00:10:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:58
Speaker
And like, what was doubly sad about this particular situation?
00:11:03
Speaker
And I guess it goes back to, you know, pick me-ism in the homeless population to some degree, is that the woman in this situation, she would actually risk her own tendency to help this guy out.
00:11:13
Speaker
So when he got evicted due to like not paying his rent and, you know, starting a fight that he lost, by the way, it was actually hilarious.
00:11:20
Speaker
He picked a fight with another man who was smaller than him and he basically
00:11:25
Speaker
got beat in the shit out of and i remember watching i remember watching the cctv battle with my colleagues we were all just pissing ourselves because he started the fight lost and got kicked out and it was just like multiple l's in the same day so after he got kicked out and it was always the smaller guys actually they could scrap like they were like the most vicious scrappers like the guys who are like five six like i mean they would be beating the shit out of guys who are like six four 220 pounds like really beating the shit out of them
00:11:54
Speaker
Yeah, because larger guys just think that they can go around being untrained and like they rely on their size.
00:12:00
Speaker
They like rely on their size like, oh yeah, I could win a fight.
00:12:03
Speaker
Like they've like watched so many karate movies or whatever.
00:12:05
Speaker
Yeah, I could just
Personal Choices and Homelessness
00:12:06
Speaker
like karate chop his head off, whatever.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah, their size.
00:12:09
Speaker
But honestly, it's the smaller guys who were the most vicious.
00:12:12
Speaker
Like they were... They gotta work on their skills.
00:12:15
Speaker
Yeah, on one occasion, there was a guy who was like six foot four.
00:12:19
Speaker
He got the shit kicked out of him by a guy who was like five foot five.
00:12:23
Speaker
And the guy kept saying, I'm going to kill him.
00:12:24
Speaker
I'm going to kill him.
00:12:25
Speaker
And I was so tempted to say, mate, he almost killed you.
00:12:27
Speaker
So you're not killing anybody because he nearly killed you.
00:12:30
Speaker
But yeah, so she would, that's this lady, she would risk her tenancy by sneaking him in.
00:12:35
Speaker
She would sneak him out food.
00:12:36
Speaker
And it's like, a guy would never do that for you.
00:12:38
Speaker
Like, if she had been evicted, that would be like, he'd just forget about her.
00:12:42
Speaker
And so you see that sort of, you know, pick me dynamic as well within homeless women where they would risk, you know, losing, you know, their shelter for a guy who would not do the same for them.
00:12:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:53
Speaker
Again, that's a very important reminder.
00:12:54
Speaker
Like, and I think all women need to be reminded of this.
00:12:56
Speaker
Like whenever you have that feeling of like,
00:12:59
Speaker
oh, this guy is struggling.
00:13:00
Speaker
I should do something nice for him.
00:13:01
Speaker
I should like save him from himself or whatever.
00:13:04
Speaker
He would not do the same for you.
00:13:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:07
Speaker
And again, men are actually in a lot of ways resentful of women who care take them because they know that it makes them less respectable in the eyes of others.
00:13:17
Speaker
Right.
00:13:17
Speaker
This is another barber the builder situation that if they had other options and as soon as they do have other options, they're likely to take it.
00:13:24
Speaker
So onto the actual tea about homeless men then, because one thing I noticed in the discourse on Twitter was that the people that were coming down on people like Lilith and Ja the Loudest, from what they were saying, I could tell they hadn't had much experience directly with homeless men.
00:13:41
Speaker
And as a result, they developed a sort of romanticised view of them so that, oh, they're traumatised, they can't help it, they just need understanding and support.
00:13:48
Speaker
You know, we should all be understanding of their trauma and
00:13:51
Speaker
Why don't you just vote to solve poverty first?
00:13:53
Speaker
You know, that's why they, you know, treat people like shit when the reality is it's not that straightforward.
00:13:59
Speaker
I worked with on the front line with homeless people for two years.
00:14:03
Speaker
I served and I recently came out of it.
00:14:05
Speaker
I would never go back.
00:14:07
Speaker
But it was also a really good experience and it really shifted my own views on homelessness because before I started the job, I thought the same.
00:14:14
Speaker
I just thought, yeah, these people just need shelter, understanding and support and they'll be fine.
00:14:20
Speaker
But the reality is it's a lot more complex.
00:14:22
Speaker
You have the interplay of the systemic issues.
00:14:25
Speaker
So things like them having a criminal record, things like them being homeless since the age of 10, things like many of them were subjected to horrific abuse in childhood and adulthood.
00:14:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:36
Speaker
I remember one resident, he couldn't work with men because he'd been abused by men.
00:14:41
Speaker
So he was literally scared of men, even though he was a man himself.
00:14:44
Speaker
It was really,
Experiences in Hostels
00:14:45
Speaker
really sad.
00:14:45
Speaker
So only women could deal with him because he'd been traumatized that much that he just wouldn't deal with men in any capacity.
00:14:52
Speaker
And when there was one of my colleagues was a man and tried to calm him down, he just freaked the fuck out.
00:14:58
Speaker
Like...
00:14:58
Speaker
He actually punched him in the face numerous times, I guess self-defense, because he was just like, you're a man.
00:15:04
Speaker
So that was really bad.
00:15:06
Speaker
And you also have their individual choices.
00:15:08
Speaker
Now, when I say that men have been made homeless due to their own personal choices, that's not the same as me saying they deserve to be homeless.
00:15:16
Speaker
But in the real world, actions have consequences.
00:15:19
Speaker
So if you are a dick to your family members and they throw you out of the house...
00:15:23
Speaker
then you'll be homeless.
00:15:24
Speaker
If you commit a crime and you go to prison and you come out, you're likely to be homeless.
00:15:29
Speaker
If you break the rules of the hostel, which they all knew about and they signed up to, you will be homeless.
00:15:35
Speaker
If you're depending on a woman to pay your rent and you abuse her and she kicks you out, then you'll be homeless.
00:15:41
Speaker
You'll be homeless.
00:15:42
Speaker
But yeah, so there's that complex interplay and this whole idea that, like Ro said at the top of the episode, that homeless men are just beyond criticism.
00:15:50
Speaker
Like there's a lot to criticize there.
00:15:52
Speaker
In terms of how they carry themselves, the choices that they make, because unfortunately they are not only destructive to themselves, but they can also be destructive to other people.
00:16:02
Speaker
And, you know, yes, you know, many of them have been subjected to horrific trauma, whether that was on the front line in a war or in abuse they were subjected to in childhood or adulthood.
00:16:12
Speaker
But that doesn't give them a pass to go ahead and abuse other people.
00:16:16
Speaker
I keep coming back to what Lindy Bancroft said about abusive men and people who resort to abusive tactics in the sense that, you know, they do it because they can get away with it.
00:16:25
Speaker
And that was my experience as well.
00:16:27
Speaker
So literally at the hostel, they didn't really mess with me that much.
00:16:31
Speaker
Because I wasn't out to be their friend and I made that quite clear.
00:16:34
Speaker
Like I would say no to them quite often and stick up for myself, but they would try to manipulate and push boundaries of other members of staff because they knew that they would get away with it sort of thing.
00:16:44
Speaker
Do you know what I mean?
00:16:45
Speaker
And so...
00:16:46
Speaker
you know, they know what they're doing.
00:16:47
Speaker
It's not down to trauma.
00:16:48
Speaker
It's not down to, you know, them not knowing any better.
00:16:51
Speaker
You know, some of them are really, really skilled manipulators and liars as well.
00:16:55
Speaker
Like they would, you know, you'd go into their room, it will be full of smoke and they would say, I wasn't smoking in my room.
00:17:00
Speaker
And it's like, you can literally like, the room is full of smoke and then they would just try and bullshit you.
00:17:05
Speaker
And it's just stuff like that.
00:17:07
Speaker
And the turnover rate in these hostels is ridiculously high because people go in with the best of intentions.
00:17:13
Speaker
Like nobody, you know, would sign up to work in someone like a hostel just to be a dickhead because the pay is not that great.
00:17:20
Speaker
The hours aren't great.
00:17:21
Speaker
So people genuinely want to help.
00:17:23
Speaker
But it got to a point where at the hostel I worked at, it was either people lasted, you know, for less than six months or they were there for 10 years because people would just, they would just churn people out so quickly.
00:17:34
Speaker
And it was a combination of the low pay, the long hours, but also the way they were treated by a lot of the residents.
00:17:39
Speaker
It was an abusive environment, basically.
00:17:41
Speaker
And me personally, I only realised how abusive it was when I came out of it and I moved into a different role where I'm working with men who've got money and who have jobs.
Trauma of Hostel Staff
00:17:52
Speaker
And the way I'm treated is totally different.
00:17:54
Speaker
Like I now realize like when, you know, guys on Twitter say, I'll stay with a man, build him, you know.
00:17:59
Speaker
Well, in my experience, obviously I'm not saying every guy who has money is a saint.
00:18:03
Speaker
That's not true.
00:18:03
Speaker
But in my experience anyway, the guys who have like money and who are well adjusted, have jobs, they've treated me way better on average than the guys who don't have that.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah, so they're really polite, really respectful.
00:18:16
Speaker
And even when they have a reason to fly off the handle, so let's say something in their apartment is broken or they have no hot water, they communicate in a very, very respectful way.
00:18:26
Speaker
Whereas at the hostel, you get some of the male residents calling you a cunt because they didn't like what was served for dinner and it was free.
00:18:33
Speaker
So it's just, but yeah, it was a very character building experience.
00:18:39
Speaker
That's a very diplomatic way to put it, a very character building experience.
00:18:43
Speaker
It was.
00:18:44
Speaker
And I just feel like all the people saying like, and here's the thing, a lot of people say like, you don't know why they're homeless, like they're harmless.
00:18:50
Speaker
I was like, well, I do know how dangerous they are because every resident who came in, they have a risk assessment, which is basically an outline of their background.
00:18:58
Speaker
So if they've gone to prison, if they have any mental health difficulties, relationships with family, like every resident had one.
00:19:04
Speaker
And it would normally be about 10 pages because you would see the usual.
00:19:07
Speaker
So they'd be diagnosed with depression, anxiety.
00:19:10
Speaker
They maybe did a couple of stints in prison.
00:19:12
Speaker
Some of them did like, I remember one did like 30 different stretches of time in prison.
00:19:17
Speaker
But he was actually one of the nicer residents.
00:19:18
Speaker
I actually quite liked him.
00:19:19
Speaker
I got on really well with him actually.
00:19:22
Speaker
But I remember one time, just before I left the hostel, there was a resident.
00:19:26
Speaker
His risk assessment was 75 pages long.
00:19:29
Speaker
He had committed every... I think he'd even done attempted murder, but short of actually someone ending up dead because of him, he'd committed every crime you could think of.
00:19:38
Speaker
If you think about the average thesis, that's longer than a thesis.
00:19:41
Speaker
That was how long his rap sheet was.
00:19:43
Speaker
And I was just reading it in disbelief that they could allow someone so dangerous...
00:19:48
Speaker
Wait, he was a staff member, not a resident?
00:19:50
Speaker
No, no, no, no.
00:19:51
Speaker
He was a resident.
00:19:52
Speaker
Okay, okay.
00:19:53
Speaker
So, but the thing is, like, we would have to manage that risk.
00:19:56
Speaker
And the thing is, we weren't trained in things like security or we don't have guns like they do in the US.
00:20:01
Speaker
So, I mean, so they literally had to hire an extra security guard just for him to literally follow him around because majority of his offenses were sexual offenses towards women.
00:20:12
Speaker
And just as I was leaving, I heard murmurs of him, like, sexually harassing the staff members as
00:20:18
Speaker
well.
00:20:18
Speaker
And there was a lot of sex offenders in there, like pedophiles.
00:20:22
Speaker
I'm talking like straight up pedophiles, like the Carl Anderson open pedophiles.
00:20:27
Speaker
Like that was a guy who was quite old.
00:20:29
Speaker
He was really sweet, really, really nice.
00:20:31
Speaker
In the States, that's actually a huge portion of the population of homeless people because depending on the state, they can't live within a certain amount of miles of where there are children.
00:20:41
Speaker
Of children.
00:20:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:20:42
Speaker
It's the same in the UK.
00:20:44
Speaker
Like they're restricted in terms of their movements, but there was one, he had like,
00:20:48
Speaker
was it 100,000 files of category A child porn, which is like the worst one you can imagine.
00:20:54
Speaker
And he was banned from the internet.
00:20:56
Speaker
Wait, he got banned from the internet?
00:20:58
Speaker
How does one person get banned from using the internet?
00:21:01
Speaker
Because he had like 100,000 files of the worst kind of child porn you can imagine.
00:21:06
Speaker
Like, how did they enforce that?
00:21:08
Speaker
Can he just like buy a phone, get a SIM card?
00:21:11
Speaker
Like, no, I think they have a way to track it.
00:21:14
Speaker
You can actually, it's an actual like punishment in the UK.
00:21:17
Speaker
It's quite rare, but I guess his, he deserved it.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:21
Speaker
Child porn habit like warranted it.
00:21:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:23
Speaker
So he couldn't use the internet basically.
00:21:25
Speaker
And a lot of them were rapists.
00:21:27
Speaker
A lot of them like sexually assaulted, you know, men and women.
Systemic Support Reluctance
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:32
Speaker
It was just, I rarely met a resident who hadn't done a stint in prison for some form of violent crime in my time there.
00:21:40
Speaker
And I came across thousands of these men and a lot of it was domestic violence, rape, sexual assault.
00:21:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:49
Speaker
So it wasn't like they were just down on that because...
00:21:54
Speaker
I did find that the ones who were just down on their luck, they tended to get themselves out of the hole.
00:21:59
Speaker
Like they would find a job and they would eventually move out and not come back.
00:22:02
Speaker
But that hostel in particular, there was a high return rate.
00:22:06
Speaker
So they'd get evicted for not paying rent.
00:22:08
Speaker
Two months later, you'd see them back in there again.
00:22:10
Speaker
And the cycle continued.
00:22:12
Speaker
And it was only this year where they realised that some of them are just never going to get out of like the homeless cycle.
00:22:17
Speaker
they actually need to build a long-term facility for some of these men.
00:22:21
Speaker
Because even with all the help in the world, bearing in mind, I worked at a facility where it was supported living.
00:22:26
Speaker
So they had a dedicated support worker.
00:22:29
Speaker
They had two meals a day included.
00:22:31
Speaker
They had...
00:22:32
Speaker
activities included like at christmas they would get more presents and better food than me like so they had like a really really good setup and even then some of them just couldn't do it like you know we would even go as far as and it was a practice i disagreed with but we would book their doctor's appointments for them and i was always like if they can like ring up their mates to go and buy weed why can't they call the doctors for themselves like
00:22:56
Speaker
So I just refused to do it.
00:22:57
Speaker
And I'm not booking a grown man's doctor's appointments.
00:23:00
Speaker
Like that's ridiculous.
00:23:02
Speaker
Unless, of course, they didn't have a phone or they, you know, like had some sort of condition, which meant they couldn't communicate very well.
00:23:08
Speaker
But at least in the UK, you know, quite a few of the hostels are actually supported living environments.
00:23:13
Speaker
So when people say, oh, homeless people just don't have the support,
00:23:16
Speaker
I'm not saying it's not the case for everybody, and I'm sure there are plenty of homeless people out there who are without support, but there are also supported living facilities for homeless people.
Societal Expectations and Emotional Labor
00:23:27
Speaker
And within those facilities, there are many men, so to speak, who just don't respond or don't engage with the support as well as they should.
00:23:36
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I am biased against these sorts of men because, you know, there are men in my own family that, you know, I've talked about this on the podcast before, like how, you know, my great grandfather were like really shitty people that like domestically abused their wives and traumatized their kids.
00:23:52
Speaker
And so there's like generations of trauma there with not only me and my sister, but my cousins as well and my second cousins, you know, honestly, probably going to be few generations before we stop being fucked up.
00:24:02
Speaker
But, you know, then the climate apocalypse is going to happen.
00:24:04
Speaker
So that'll sort itself out.
00:24:06
Speaker
But yes, I have like cousins who, you know, have an in and out of homeless shelters.
00:24:11
Speaker
They, some are addicts.
00:24:12
Speaker
Like I had one cousin in particular who spent some time in foster care, but as like an older teen.
00:24:19
Speaker
And when you're like an older teen in foster care, and a lot of times they'll be in like a sort of group home kind of situation.
00:24:26
Speaker
And he was like,
00:24:27
Speaker
molesting the other girls there and sometimes boys too and got kicked out of his group home and what the story that we heard first that he was telling everybody that was that he claimed that he was sexually abused in foster care or in this group home but actually he was the actual sexual abuser like he was going around telling people like oh you know help me like i was like
00:24:50
Speaker
You know, I was in foster care.
00:24:52
Speaker
I was like molested in my group home.
00:24:54
Speaker
Like, you know, I have so much trauma, like help me kind of thing.
00:24:57
Speaker
And we found out later that was not actually true that he'd like molested a ton of girls.
00:25:01
Speaker
And so that was something that really shook me when I was younger.
00:25:04
Speaker
Me and him are about the same age.
00:25:06
Speaker
So I was in my late teens and early 20s when I found this out.
00:25:09
Speaker
And that was one of those.
00:25:10
Speaker
And my family, like my parents, he actually came knocking on my parents' door at one point, asking for their help.
00:25:15
Speaker
And he stayed the night at our house a few times.
00:25:18
Speaker
Like we didn't get molested, but like, you know, that was the thing that could have happened.
00:25:21
Speaker
Right.
00:25:22
Speaker
And, you know, and he robbed us as well.
00:25:24
Speaker
So there's like a whole, like, he stole shit from us as well.
00:25:27
Speaker
So like my parents stopped, like letting him come over.
00:25:31
Speaker
But this is the story of a lot of these guys, like we're laughing, but like,
00:25:36
Speaker
It was really shitty for us at the time to wake up in the morning and there's no TVs in your house.
00:25:40
Speaker
Like, oh, we gave him a place to stay in like a dinner the night before.
00:25:43
Speaker
Right.
00:25:43
Speaker
You know, we're so sorry what you went through, Todd.
00:25:46
Speaker
Like, we're going to get you through this kind of thing.
00:25:48
Speaker
And like, yeah, they just like, I mean, I'm glad that he robbed us instead
Complexities of Homelessness
00:25:52
Speaker
of molested us.
00:25:52
Speaker
Like between the two things, honestly, I think losing our TVs was less traumatic probably than getting like literally raped.
00:25:57
Speaker
So I'm,
00:25:58
Speaker
I'm actually glad, like given the two options that he could have done, he went with that one.
00:26:02
Speaker
You know, still like these sorts of men are dangerous and they're not just a danger to themselves, but they're a danger to the people who help them a lot of the times.
00:26:11
Speaker
Right.
00:26:11
Speaker
That's why I'm kind of biased against these men and why I'd always advise women to exercise caution with these sorts of men, with these sorts of sob stories, because a lot of times they'll say, oh, I'm a victim.
00:26:21
Speaker
I've done this and this, but they're not the victim.
00:26:23
Speaker
They were the perpetrator.
00:26:24
Speaker
And the reason why they're homeless is because they got caught.
00:26:27
Speaker
They finally got faced consequences for their actions.
00:26:30
Speaker
And living on the streets, I think, is a fair consequence for men who are like child molesters.
00:26:35
Speaker
I think men like that deserve to suffer, honestly.
00:26:38
Speaker
Social isolation.
00:26:40
Speaker
They're supposed to be socially isolated from people who would be victimized by them.
00:26:45
Speaker
And that's like an uncomfortable conversation because I think a lot of the do-gooder types, they think about this problem in terms of numbers and in the abstract and
00:26:53
Speaker
This is what happens a lot of times with academia or like women who take up these pet causes because they be like, I'm going to go fly to some remote village in Africa and save the people there.
00:27:04
Speaker
Like they have the savior complex and they just don't understand the politics on the ground level is way, way, way, way more complex than they've been led to believe.
00:27:15
Speaker
Like,
00:27:15
Speaker
I would love to say that like the homelessness problem is as simple as just like building more homes.
00:27:20
Speaker
But the truth of the matter is it's not.
00:27:22
Speaker
And this is a big problem in the States right now.
00:27:24
Speaker
There's like a huge conversation about some of these States that have much larger populations of homeless.
00:27:29
Speaker
I think California being the largest one, if I'm not mistaken, of like unsheltered homeless people, meaning homeless people that just quite literally live on the street in tent cities.
00:27:36
Speaker
And there's other States that have homeless people, but they have a better infrastructure of like hostels and different places for them to stay.
00:27:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:43
Speaker
But a lot of other states, because they don't have any infrastructure for homeless people, especially red states, would just quite literally bust their homeless to California.
00:27:51
Speaker
So California has an influx of people that are living on the street and bringing back these throwback viruses and throwback sicknesses like leprosy.
00:27:59
Speaker
like hantavirus and stuff like that, because there's so many of them on the street, it became like a huge public health crisis.
00:28:04
Speaker
So what California is like now trying to do is figure out like, what do you do with this population?
00:28:09
Speaker
Like there's a certain percentage for which if we just build affordable housing, or at least like some kind of more of a shelter system that they can stay, then they won't be on the street and then possibly could get their life together enough to be more integrated into society.
00:28:22
Speaker
But then there's just like these complete psychopaths that are dangerous.
00:28:26
Speaker
And
00:28:27
Speaker
like my cousin.
00:28:28
Speaker
And yes, he did experience trauma with from his parents, like my aunt and uncle did kind of fuck him up, right?
00:28:33
Speaker
But it's like, what do you do with men like that, where they've been through some fucked up shit, and they're like a hurricane causing destruction in the lives of everyone they interact with?
00:28:41
Speaker
How do you deal with men like that?
00:28:43
Speaker
But here's the thing as well is that I find it quite interesting how people tend to use trauma as an excuse for why homeless men are shitty, but they don't extend that same empathy or sympathy to women, not just homeless women, but women as a class.
Societal Biases and Burdens on Women
00:28:57
Speaker
Like if you look at the statistics on sexual abuse, like,
00:29:00
Speaker
most women have been subjected to sexual abuse but when you know we have things like FDS or anything that tells women that you don't have to downplay your hurt or whatever we're just seen as bitter and angry and we need to get over it or not all men but when it's men who experience trauma it's like the worst thing in the world and that justifies them treating other people badly even people who are trying to help them
00:29:23
Speaker
And the other thing is, is that when you look at sexual abuse statistics, it is overwhelmingly male and female and overwhelming the offenders are male.
00:29:31
Speaker
And so there's not a direct correlation between being abused and then becoming a sex offender yourself, right?
00:29:37
Speaker
Because if that were the case, there would be a lot more female sex offenders.
00:29:40
Speaker
Because there'd be a lot more female pedophiles than there are right now, right?
00:29:43
Speaker
Because women and girls face so much sexual abuse and
00:29:46
Speaker
you know, if it was true that like trauma caused people to become abusive or toxic or violent and so on, you'd see a lot more women who are serial killers, rapists and so on, right?
00:29:55
Speaker
Because women also face this trauma.
00:29:57
Speaker
And like, if anything, like women's trauma gets like weaponized against women.
00:30:01
Speaker
Like, you know, I've seen people insult women like, oh, she looks like she was molested as a kid.
00:30:05
Speaker
That was an actual insult.
00:30:06
Speaker
I heard a guy.
00:30:08
Speaker
Or she's got daddy issues or whatever, you know?
00:30:10
Speaker
Yeah, like it's weaponized against women.
00:30:13
Speaker
But when men are, you know, quote unquote, traumatized, it's used as like, oh, we should feel compassion for him when he's doing terrible things.
00:30:20
Speaker
Oh, it's not his fault.
00:30:21
Speaker
Like, you can't help it.
00:30:22
Speaker
And I literally challenged somebody on that when they tried to throw the argument at me.
00:30:26
Speaker
I was like, but what about all the staff who are trying to help these men?
00:30:30
Speaker
Aren't they being traumatized by being verbally abused or being, you know, gripped against the wall or being entrapped in the office because they're going on a rampage, threatening to kill themselves?
00:30:39
Speaker
It's just like women and, you know, these people who work in these homeless hostels, men love to say, you know, women don't care about our problems, but it's overwhelmingly women.
00:30:48
Speaker
If you go into any homeless hostel, even if it's full of men, you'll find that it's overwhelmingly women who are staffing it, who are supporting these men, who give these men, you know, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, tenth, a hundredth chances.
00:31:00
Speaker
It's not really men doing the legwork, it's women still.
00:31:03
Speaker
And they just feel so entitled to,
00:31:06
Speaker
Yeah, if it wasn't for women, the entire caretaking industry would collapse.
00:31:11
Speaker
It would collapse.
00:31:11
Speaker
And it just feeds into that.
00:31:13
Speaker
And, you know, going back to what we say at FDS, the way men and society in general, even other women, I guess down to internalized misogyny, they feel so entitled to women's emotional labor, especially when it comes to essentially shitty men.
00:31:26
Speaker
They just feel so entitled to it.
00:31:28
Speaker
And there's no consideration for their feelings.
00:31:30
Speaker
It should just always be about the man and his feelings.
00:31:33
Speaker
Even if he's treating them really badly, they should just understand it and just get on with their job.
00:31:37
Speaker
And then if they can't hack it, they're a bad person.
00:31:39
Speaker
If they can't take the abuse anymore, then they're a terrible person.
00:31:43
Speaker
It's really an abusive... It's abusive dynamic.
00:31:46
Speaker
It's a dynamic that exists, like that's society wide, but it also exists on like the individual level where society is revolved around the feelings and the needs of men.
Male Privilege and Compassion Manipulation
00:31:55
Speaker
And in an abusive relationship, the relationship is centered on the feelings and the needs of the abuser and the female partner, like her needs and her wants are seen as irrelevant or as
00:32:05
Speaker
inconvenient or as an obstacle to the man's happiness, right?
00:32:09
Speaker
So this whole discussion on like, we need to feel bad for homeless men, even though a lot of them do terrible things to women, like exactly the sort of discussion that we see on, you know, men who are abusers in relationships, they often play the victim as well, or they often make themselves seem out to be a victim as well.
00:32:25
Speaker
Or they say, oh, I abused because like my mom was abusive to me and like, you know,
00:32:29
Speaker
Or they'll just straight up Darbo and just say, you know, she's the abuser.
00:32:32
Speaker
And that's actually what happened in the hostel is that they would say that we're the worst people in the world.
00:32:37
Speaker
We're selfish.
00:32:38
Speaker
We don't care about them, you know, whilst extracting our labor, like from us and basically depending on us as well.
00:32:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:45
Speaker
And you see that in abusive relationships all the time.
00:32:47
Speaker
Right.
00:32:48
Speaker
And so, again, like I tell women who are in abusive relationships all the time to like stop buying his Darvos.
00:32:54
Speaker
Stop believing the lies that he tells you about yourself.
00:32:58
Speaker
Stop believing that the lies that he tells you about him.
00:33:00
Speaker
Right.
00:33:01
Speaker
Feel less compassion for it.
00:33:02
Speaker
When men know that you feel compassion for them, they'll emotionally manipulate you.
00:33:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's game over.
00:33:08
Speaker
And I saw this a lot at the hostel as well.
00:33:10
Speaker
And this is why I say, even if they're not like physically abusive or physically intimidating, don't underestimate the level of manipulation that these men will go to.
00:33:21
Speaker
Like in the UK, many of the people who are begging on the streets, for example, they're not actually homeless.
00:33:27
Speaker
They have somewhere to go as well.
00:33:29
Speaker
I was honestly shocked when I first heard that.
00:33:32
Speaker
And that was actually when I joined the hostel in my training.
00:33:35
Speaker
They said most or many of the people who were like begging on the street, they're not actually homeless.
00:33:40
Speaker
They have somewhere to go as well.
00:33:42
Speaker
That was the craziest thing when I was in Europe too.
00:33:45
Speaker
Like the homeless people in Europe are so much more like put together than the homeless people in like Canada.
00:33:51
Speaker
I don't know if Canada and the US have similar homeless people, but like the homeless people in Europe seemed like reasonably young and able-bodied.
00:33:58
Speaker
A lot of them like were dressed sort of like, I guess, kind of nicer.
00:34:02
Speaker
And like, yeah, a lot of them are like, why are they on the streets begging when they're on benefits?
00:34:06
Speaker
I don't understand that.
00:34:07
Speaker
Like, why do they do that?
00:34:09
Speaker
Because it's more money.
00:34:10
Speaker
It's more money.
00:34:11
Speaker
And I guess like it's like more money to spend on what they want to spend on.
00:34:16
Speaker
Because again, I think when I was at the hostel as well, they had to pay like a nominal rent out of their benefits.
00:34:22
Speaker
And a lot of them just hated paying for it, even though it was something ridiculous, like maybe 30 pounds a week or something like that.
00:34:28
Speaker
which if you're getting room, board, two meals included, that's like nothing, especially given how expensive rent is in the UK.
00:34:35
Speaker
And they just wouldn't want to pay for it.
00:34:36
Speaker
They would just, you know, want to spend it all on themselves.
00:34:39
Speaker
And the way they spent money on drugs and alcohol was like nothing I could ever see.
00:34:43
Speaker
Like what was really funny as well was that they would all know when each other was getting their benefit.
00:34:48
Speaker
So you knew when somebody had just been paid because they would have like a swarm of the homeless people just like following them around because
00:34:56
Speaker
They would get things like drugs and alcohol.
00:34:58
Speaker
And I remember there was one gentleman who mistakenly received like five grand in benefits payments.
00:35:04
Speaker
It was a mistake and he knew it was a mistake.
00:35:07
Speaker
And the staff were telling him, look, send it back to DWP, Department of Work and Pensions, send it back.
00:35:12
Speaker
And he was like, yeah, no, I'll spend it all because then I'll only have to pay back like five pounds a week.
00:35:17
Speaker
which is true.
00:35:18
Speaker
Like if you have no money, DWP will take like maybe five pounds a week until you pay it back.
00:35:23
Speaker
But obviously if it's five grand, you'll never pay it back.
00:35:26
Speaker
But he spent the whole lot in three days on drugs and alcohol, just five grand.
00:35:30
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of these like Hunter Biden types.
00:35:34
Speaker
I don't know who Hunter Biden is.
00:35:36
Speaker
I don't know who he is.
00:35:37
Speaker
Okay, Hunter Biden is Joe Biden's son, who is a hardcore drug addict and has had a bunch.
00:35:44
Speaker
He's, oh, this is actually a long story, but like he's a hardcore drug addict.
00:35:48
Speaker
Did he get a prostitute pregnant?
00:35:49
Speaker
Was that him?
00:35:50
Speaker
I think a stripper.
00:35:51
Speaker
But like, yeah, no, he's like frequents prostitutes all
Dangers for Homeless Women
00:35:54
Speaker
the time.
00:35:54
Speaker
And a bunch of videos leaked of him frequenting prostitutes, him being high, him smoking crack, all these types of things.
00:36:00
Speaker
So it's the guy who comes from privilege, who otherwise would be homeless if his father was not quite literally, highly connected.
00:36:07
Speaker
Literally the president?
00:36:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:36:09
Speaker
Well, before he was president, he was still a senator, but there's actually a high percentage.
00:36:13
Speaker
I don't know the percentage of this, but there's a decent percentage of men who are homeless who are basically Hunter Biden types.
00:36:19
Speaker
They have a drug problem.
00:36:20
Speaker
They're pathologically abusive to everyone around them.
00:36:23
Speaker
And they want to spend all their money on gambling drugs and prostitution.
00:36:27
Speaker
And they alienate their family so much that they have no other place to go but the street because they're too dangerous and
00:36:34
Speaker
and too much of a liability for their family to take on, right?
00:36:36
Speaker
If you have them in their house and like Lilith said, they rob you or they're bringing drugs and prostitutes into the house.
00:36:41
Speaker
Like if you are a law abiding citizen, you can't be around that, right?
00:36:44
Speaker
And without risk of the police getting involved.
00:36:47
Speaker
And I actually had a classmate that was like that where came from a lot of wealth, mind you.
00:36:53
Speaker
A couple of my classmates, like shortly after graduation, we saw him like downtown high out of his mind, like ripping pages out of a book just on the street.
00:37:01
Speaker
But like, this is a person who came from wealth, but he was essentially just so gone out of his mind, addicted to drugs and addicted to whatever else that he couldn't function in society.
00:37:11
Speaker
And I think he actually dropped out of our school.
00:37:14
Speaker
He didn't graduate with us.
00:37:14
Speaker
So
00:37:15
Speaker
There's things like that where, you know, when we talk about homelessness, like first of all, stratified by sex and say the homelessness problem among women is vastly different than the homelessness problem among men.
00:37:26
Speaker
There's some overlap, but like to act as if the specifically homeless male problem isn't a significant portion of it is not of their own design would be a little bit disingenuous.
00:37:37
Speaker
Yeah, and also actually the number of homeless women is actually thought to be very underreported purely because there are women who are effectively homeless but are being sexually exploited.
00:37:47
Speaker
So things like sex for rent, sofa surfing, sleeping on the floor.
00:37:51
Speaker
These women are technically homeless but they're not counted in the stats because they are housed in quotation marks but their housing isn't secure.
00:37:58
Speaker
So in a sex for rent arrangement if she decides to stop sleeping with the landlord then she's homeless.
00:38:04
Speaker
basically.
00:38:04
Speaker
So even in that sort of situation, she's effectively homeless because she has to do something that she probably doesn't want to do in order to secure housing.
00:38:14
Speaker
Right.
00:38:14
Speaker
Cause it's too dangerous for women to sleep on the street.
00:38:16
Speaker
So when people are trying to do homeless surveys, quite literally, like, and I know some of my friends that were working in research on like urban development, urban populations, like they would have to go do surveys and like
00:38:28
Speaker
quite literally count homeless sometimes.
00:38:30
Speaker
And yeah, you won't see as many women on the street because it's dangerous for them to be on the street, especially after dark.
00:38:36
Speaker
So yeah, there's a thought that females, women in general are criminally underreported, but also women tend to voluntarily seek help a lot more often.
00:38:45
Speaker
So the other problem is that the male homeless population, they don't want to help themselves nearly as much.
00:38:50
Speaker
So like whatever, call it machismo, maybe like there's not as much of a sense of immediacy as it is for women because of the fact that it's so dangerous for women.
00:38:58
Speaker
But the female population is much more likely to seek help and therefore find it as well as them not being so dangerous that they can't use the services that are publicly
Identifying 'Hobosexuals' on Dating Apps
00:39:08
Speaker
available.
00:39:08
Speaker
Because what disqualifies a lot of the men from publicly available services are like that long history and that long rap sheet that Savannah was talking about.
00:39:16
Speaker
It's like they're too dangerous for the public service professionals to try to help them.
00:39:21
Speaker
I want to point out that like when you're talking to incels online, you know, misogynists online, they'll always be like, well, if you go on the streets, 99% of the homeless people are men.
00:39:30
Speaker
Like that's a sign that men are oppressed by society.
00:39:33
Speaker
No, I would say that the fact that most homeless people are men is a sign of male privilege because homeless men are generally more safe on the streets than homeless women, right?
00:39:43
Speaker
The fact that women can't even be homeless without being attacked or raped or killed is itself like male privilege, right?
00:39:49
Speaker
They don't face the same dangers that homeless women face.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:53
Speaker
Like I said, it's a choice for some of them, right?
00:39:56
Speaker
And a lot of women in abusive relationships, for example, there's a lot of women who would be homeless, but they choose to stay with their abuser because they see being with one man who beats them every night or, you know, or even just like emotional abuses them, treats them like shit or whatever.
00:40:10
Speaker
That's seen as a better option to them than being on the streets and possibly getting serial killed, right?
00:40:15
Speaker
And that's actually a barrier to women reporting domestic abuse anyway, because if she's dependent on the guy to pay the rent or the mortgage, she's not going to, you know, shop him to the police because then she'll lose her housing.
00:40:28
Speaker
And when I was training police officers in this, a lot of them were like, oh shit, yeah, I didn't think of that.
00:40:32
Speaker
Because it was like, are you going to give her a house?
00:40:33
Speaker
Are you going to pay her rent?
00:40:35
Speaker
Are you going to pay her mortgage?
00:40:36
Speaker
If she reports and this guy goes to prison, of course she won't.
00:40:38
Speaker
So, you know, when you're saying women need to report more, it's like, are you thinking about her housing situation?
00:40:44
Speaker
If she reports and then he goes to prison and she ends up homeless, how are you going to help her?
00:40:49
Speaker
You can't help her.
00:40:50
Speaker
Exactly.
00:40:50
Speaker
And a lot of, again, like the fact that women don't report domestic abuse for these economic reasons is seen as like, oh, you know, I guess women just like to be in abusive relationships.
00:41:00
Speaker
But she's effectively homeless.
00:41:02
Speaker
Yeah, like they make it like, oh, women choose to be in abusive relationships.
00:41:05
Speaker
They don't take into account that the other option for her is usually worse.
00:41:10
Speaker
So with that in mind, though, should we talk about like how to spot a homosexual?
00:41:14
Speaker
Like, let's say you're on Tinder and you're swiping.
00:41:18
Speaker
I mean, I haven't used Tinder in a long time, but like, let's say you're on Tinder and you're swiping.
00:41:22
Speaker
What was the website that women were using to find prison pen pals?
00:41:27
Speaker
Oh, go back and watch our 10, go listen to our 10 tips on dating a prisoner episode for that ride of hilarity.
00:41:35
Speaker
But yeah, basically, if you're prison pen pal, but also I would say if a guy comes out of the bat, and this doesn't,
00:41:42
Speaker
just apply to homelessness but generally anyway I think it's a red flag if he starts with the sob stories right away so saying like oh I'm a victim I was just out of prison it wasn't my fault if he just gives any sort of aura of always being the victim I would just turn around and walk away even if he's not homeless but it means that he's trying to get your sympathy because generally speaking like men don't share especially with women emotionally unless they're doing it
00:42:10
Speaker
for ulterior motives, especially a man you've just met.
00:42:13
Speaker
So I think it's a big red flag if a guy begins, if he leads with the sob stories.
00:42:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:18
Speaker
So if he leads with the sob stories, red flag.
00:42:20
Speaker
If he's a prison pen pal, red flag.
00:42:23
Speaker
What's another red flag?
00:42:24
Speaker
I don't know.
00:42:25
Speaker
If he wants to like come over to your house immediately and when he goes to your place, like, you know, John Meehan, like what was that story?
00:42:32
Speaker
The Dirty John, that story, right?
00:42:34
Speaker
He was a homosexual, right?
00:42:35
Speaker
And apparently one of the first things that he did is he wanted to go to her house and he was looking around and like, wow, it's so nice.
00:42:40
Speaker
And one of the first things that he did was lie in her bed and was like, wow, what a nice mattress kind of thing.
00:42:45
Speaker
You know, if he shows up at your house looking sort of underdressed and, you know, is really impressed by how nice your house is, he's like, he's house shopping.
00:42:53
Speaker
Like, he's not interested in you.
00:42:55
Speaker
He wants just a place to sleep.
00:42:57
Speaker
And if like each time you see him, it's always either at your place or somewhere public.
00:43:03
Speaker
Like you should verify that he has his own lodging somehow, even through a video call or just going to see it if possible.
00:43:11
Speaker
But yeah, if they're always too available, that's a sign that they don't have a job and or they don't have anywhere to live as well.
00:43:18
Speaker
Because like working people, there'll be times when they're just not available or do you know what I mean?
00:43:23
Speaker
Like they won't always be available.
00:43:24
Speaker
Exactly.
00:43:25
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:25
Speaker
You know, women like a guy who replies to their text messages, you know, in less than 24 hours, right?
00:43:30
Speaker
We want a guy to text us back.
Roommate Dynamics as Red Flags
00:43:32
Speaker
We don't like when a guy texts us and then puts his phone down for like five hours and doesn't respond.
00:43:36
Speaker
But if he's at work, that's a good thing.
00:43:38
Speaker
If he responds to every single one of your text messages immediately, that means he's probably homeless.
00:43:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:43
Speaker
And if he always wants to hang out, but you know, when you hang out, I see them in public or at your place.
00:43:48
Speaker
Something's not quite right there.
00:43:51
Speaker
If he doesn't mention having a relationship with any friends or family.
00:43:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's another big one.
00:43:57
Speaker
You know, he's just kind of out here.
00:44:00
Speaker
Or if his friend is named Toothless Joe, maybe that's that might be a red flag.
00:44:07
Speaker
That's the other thing is I would seriously question any man who doesn't have any kind of support network.
00:44:14
Speaker
Like, cause men always want to be like, Oh, it's cause you know, of like, they always want to make it seem like it's not their fault or, you know, that it's other people who aren't supporting them, but it's like,
00:44:26
Speaker
As a man, like, why do you have nobody?
00:44:28
Speaker
Like, even if your parents were terrible and they kicked you out and stuff, why not, like, go make an effort to, like, make friends, you know, build your own support network?
00:44:35
Speaker
Like, even if a man did go through something terrible, his, like, inability to build a support network is itself a red flag.
00:44:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:43
Speaker
I mean, that's part of the journey of being a man and being able to contribute to your community.
00:44:49
Speaker
Like you do have to have some value to people, right?
00:44:52
Speaker
It doesn't mean that you have to like contribute monetarily, like if you don't have the money, but for people to not want you around at all, it's giving incel, right?
00:44:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:00
Speaker
Right.
00:45:01
Speaker
As a side note, a lot of these guys that are incels are, they would be the homeless demographic if their parents didn't house them, right?
00:45:07
Speaker
They don't have any friends except for online.
00:45:09
Speaker
They hate women.
00:45:10
Speaker
They're pathologically unable to form relationships with other people.
00:45:13
Speaker
And so like when you look at those types, you know, you have to make sure that when you're dealing with a man and he seems to not have any ties anywhere, it's very much a red flag.
00:45:23
Speaker
And he might be a transient person in general.
00:45:26
Speaker
Or if you just got generally poor social skills, because, yeah, again, what I witnessed in the homeless population when I was there is that they generally have quite poor social skills.
00:45:35
Speaker
And like, okay, we discussed this in another episode about the biggest barrier for poor men succeeding, especially with women, is there are a lot of women who take in these fix it, fixer upper type guys, right?
00:45:47
Speaker
Or who will take in the men who makes less than them.
00:45:49
Speaker
The biggest barrier is like a lot of times their antagonism and misogyny when it comes to dealing with women.
00:45:55
Speaker
Because if you are poor and you see a lot of families that are poor, generally like the male and the female will work together, right?
00:46:02
Speaker
If they can't work together with a woman,
00:46:04
Speaker
such that she would even want to have him as like a project, then you're dealing with a person who's got a pathological problem such that they shouldn't be around people.
00:46:13
Speaker
And there's even women that do take in these sociopaths.
00:46:16
Speaker
And that's where you get in to a lot of times where you'll see like children being abused or being murdered on the news.
00:46:22
Speaker
And nine times out of 10, it's like mom's boyfriend she met two weeks ago and then moved in.
00:46:26
Speaker
And it's just some transient asshole.
00:46:28
Speaker
So I saw this like TikTok.
00:46:30
Speaker
It was on Twitter, but it was like a recording of a TikTok that was on Twitter.
00:46:33
Speaker
It was like, it had this uplifting background music, like you're supposed to see this as a success story.
00:46:38
Speaker
But it started out with like, I found this guy on the side of the road, took him home, cleaned him up, you know, got him some clothes, fed him, found him a job, all that kind of stuff, blah, blah, blah.
00:46:48
Speaker
And then he cheated on me.
00:46:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:50
Speaker
And I'm just like, girl, why would you go through so much effort?
00:46:54
Speaker
Why would you just find a random guy on the side of the road, build him up?
00:46:57
Speaker
And then like, for what?
00:46:58
Speaker
Right?
00:46:59
Speaker
Like, I don't understand that.
00:47:00
Speaker
Why would you do?
00:47:02
Speaker
I don't get it, right?
00:47:04
Speaker
And only for him to harm you?
00:47:05
Speaker
Like... Yeah.
00:47:06
Speaker
Why can't he be roommates with a man?
00:47:08
Speaker
Right?
00:47:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:10
Speaker
And like, I heard another story, like a completely separate story where like a woman, you know, offered a man a place to stay and he slit her throat.
00:47:16
Speaker
Right?
00:47:17
Speaker
I see these kinds of stories and I'm like, you're taking on so much danger and giving so much to this guy.
00:47:22
Speaker
And what is he giving you in return?
00:47:24
Speaker
Nothing other than like the sense of satisfaction that you helped someone.
00:47:28
Speaker
The other thing too, if men weren't dangerous, then they could become roommates with each other, right?
00:47:33
Speaker
Why can't they live with other men?
00:47:34
Speaker
Why?
00:47:34
Speaker
Because they know other men are shitty.
00:47:37
Speaker
So they're always going to live with women because they can like enact their shittiness onto you.
00:47:43
Speaker
Because women aren't a threat to them and there's benefits of being with women.
00:47:47
Speaker
Right.
00:47:48
Speaker
Exactly.
00:47:48
Speaker
But like my other thing too is a red flag is like, even if he has a bunch of like random people that live together in a nondescript place and he doesn't really know these people, then probably an evidence that he's a homosexual because he's
00:48:01
Speaker
He might be like a functioning homosexual, meaning not a threat to everybody because, you know, having roommates is somewhat normal, especially for younger people.
00:48:09
Speaker
But you start to realize like, okay, is he trying to upgrade his situation and get out of living with a bunch of men by trying to move in with me?
Women's Right to Withhold Empathy
00:48:17
Speaker
That's another thing to watch out for.
00:48:18
Speaker
Like if you're dating a guy and he has roommates, it's important that his roommates should be like, yeah, longtime friends.
00:48:25
Speaker
Like, oh, he's my, you know, his brother, his cousin, his like buddies known from high school, that kind of thing.
00:48:30
Speaker
That is an indication that he's capable of like building and maintaining long-term relationships.
00:48:34
Speaker
platonic relationships, I would consider that okay.
00:48:37
Speaker
If he has roommates that are just like a bunch of random people, it's like, oh, this is just a house with like five rooms and just five dudes living in it.
00:48:44
Speaker
It's a pigsty.
00:48:45
Speaker
And he doesn't really know or interact with these people.
00:48:47
Speaker
Yeah, he's the kind of guy he's going to be, he's shopping for a girlfriend that he can move in with.
00:48:52
Speaker
You know, that's the kind of guy he's going to go on online dating and find a woman who will let him move in with her.
00:48:57
Speaker
He'll say things like, I'm a homebody.
00:49:01
Speaker
I love a woman who can make a home-cooked meal.
00:49:03
Speaker
Like...
00:49:05
Speaker
And also make sure as well that he's paying rent or contributing wherever he's staying as well.
00:49:10
Speaker
Like homeless men generally don't like to part with their money.
00:49:14
Speaker
So just make sure that they're contributing in a meaningful way, preferably financially as well if they're living with roommates.
00:49:21
Speaker
And make sure he's the kind of guy who does his dishes.
00:49:24
Speaker
Like, is he the kind of roommate that just, like, eats his food and leaves his dishes in the sink waiting for someone else to clean that up?
00:49:29
Speaker
Yeah, that was so common at the hostel as well.
00:49:32
Speaker
If you move that guy in with you, you're going to be doing dishes and cooking for him for the rest of your life.
00:49:37
Speaker
And just general appearance as well.
00:49:40
Speaker
Like, I hate to fit the stereotype, but it's not like...
00:49:43
Speaker
homeless people go around smelling of cologne and in you know well-cut suits as well so what's their grooming like do they wear the same telltale sign actually do they wear the same clothes every day because at the hostel some of them even though they could get clothes for free but they would literally wear the same clothes for weeks and months and not wash them i shit you not and so are they wearing the same clothes every day because if they are homeless definitely
00:50:08
Speaker
I don't know, so many episodes will say a bunch of stuff and then at the end it's like, so yeah, okay, end of episode, boom.
00:50:13
Speaker
Like I want to have a conclusion, you know?
00:50:14
Speaker
End conclusion.
00:50:17
Speaker
So that's sort of the, and so in conclusion, I think the homeless men question, since we're focusing on men in this one, is a lot more complex than people think.
00:50:24
Speaker
Yes, there are systemic issues that contribute to homelessness and not all of it is down to the individual, but there are so many individual differences.
00:50:33
Speaker
There can't be a blanket response.
00:50:35
Speaker
You know, like Rose said earlier on in the episode, even if you built everybody a house and paid their rent, you would still have people who are homeless because it's...
00:50:43
Speaker
Also, there is an element of agency and choices that we make and the consequences of the choices that we make as well.
00:50:51
Speaker
And that needs to be spoken about more.
00:50:53
Speaker
It's not enough to just say, just give everybody a house or just be really patient with them.
00:50:57
Speaker
Because ultimately, people who are homeless, they can have maladaptive behaviors.
00:51:03
Speaker
They learn what works for them.
00:51:05
Speaker
And sometimes their behavior can be extremely destructive to the people around them and to the people who are trying to help them as well.
00:51:13
Speaker
There'll be like that homeless prophet that we talked about in that Roses Grote episode a few episodes back where he was trying to get some women to be part of his sister wife, Haram, but he didn't have a place to stay.
00:51:24
Speaker
But like, that's also a flavor of homeless man where the reason why he's homeless is because he doesn't want to, quote, play by the rules of society.
00:51:30
Speaker
And it's usually some like insane bullshit.
00:51:32
Speaker
Like, and those are just like seething narcissists.
00:51:36
Speaker
So who are like trying to start a cult?
00:51:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:40
Speaker
Extremely uncooperative.
00:51:42
Speaker
I guess our larger point in this episode was that homelessness, like Savannah said, is a very complex problem.
00:51:49
Speaker
Don't let your empathy be weaponized against you, especially not in the dating market.
00:51:54
Speaker
But you know, because a lot of these guys are exactly where they need to be at this point in their life.
00:51:59
Speaker
They were the deserve to be.
00:52:00
Speaker
They're where they deserve to be.
00:52:01
Speaker
They've brought themselves there.
00:52:03
Speaker
Right.
00:52:04
Speaker
So people are going to pressure you to feel like you should extend yourself to help them directly or give these types of guys a chance.
00:52:11
Speaker
And the truth of the matter is for women, like it's only downside.
00:52:15
Speaker
Only downside, and as a woman as well, I really hope that women internalise the message that you don't owe, I wrote this on my Twitter account, but I'll repeat it here, is that you don't owe anybody your compassion, empathy or sympathy.
00:52:27
Speaker
You give those out of your own volition.
00:52:29
Speaker
Like, don't feel like you have to feel sorry for homeless men just because society says you're a bad person if you don't, like.
00:52:35
Speaker
You know, you get to decide, you know, who to give those feelings to.
00:52:39
Speaker
Don't be pressured into giving them the benefit of the doubt or making excuses for them just because society tells you that you should.
00:52:45
Speaker
It's perfectly okay.
00:52:46
Speaker
Because like I said, once again, on the ground, a lot of the women, the working class women that do give these guys a chance, those are the ones that you see on the news, you know, a month later with their baby shaken to death.
00:52:56
Speaker
Because again, these men are dangerous.
00:52:58
Speaker
So telling them like, oh, you should have compassion for this situation is actually the wrong thing to tell women.
00:53:04
Speaker
And honestly, I think this whole idea that working in the homeless sectors, it's rewarding to some degree, yes, but there's also a lot of trauma that goes with that reward to the point where it's effectively cancelled
Summary and Manipulation of Support
00:53:15
Speaker
out.
00:53:15
Speaker
And again, I referenced the high turnover is that these people come into it genuinely wanting to help, but they just don't get the respect.
00:53:24
Speaker
or the regard that they deserve for trying to help these people.
00:53:28
Speaker
So I honestly think, from my experience anyway, that just like saying it's rewarding on its own is a bit of propaganda to get especially women to invest in these men who don't give anything back to them, even basic decency and respect.
00:53:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:44
Speaker
To follow up on what you said, Sven, women don't owe compassion and empathy.
00:53:49
Speaker
And if someone is demanding or is acting entitled to your compassion and your empathy, you need to run.
00:53:55
Speaker
That is a huge red flag.
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:53:58
Speaker
Because the only people I know who are abusive people, that's an abusive mentality to feel entitled to your emotional labor, to feel entitled to your compassion.
00:54:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:06
Speaker
Just to end on a fun, you know, as well, it was really wild in the homeless host as well.
00:54:12
Speaker
These guys would be straight up homeless, have nothing.
00:54:14
Speaker
You would know they have nothing.
00:54:15
Speaker
But then they'd hit on the female staff.
00:54:17
Speaker
Yeah, audacity.
00:54:19
Speaker
Yeah, they're trying their options.
00:54:21
Speaker
They're seeing what they can get.
00:54:22
Speaker
As in like one a day.
00:54:23
Speaker
And I'm just like, but you're homeless.
00:54:25
Speaker
And I know you're homeless.
00:54:26
Speaker
I've seen your shithole room.
00:54:28
Speaker
Like, why do you think I would want to get with you?
00:54:30
Speaker
Why?
00:54:31
Speaker
They don't have shame.
00:54:32
Speaker
They're hustlers.
Closing Remarks and Engagement
00:54:33
Speaker
You know, a lot of them are pimps too.
00:54:35
Speaker
Actual literal pimps, sex traffickers.
00:54:37
Speaker
So they don't have any respect or regard for women.
00:54:40
Speaker
It's all about exploitation at that point.
00:54:41
Speaker
Because at that ground level, when you're trying to meet your basic needs, like for a lot of men, their morality about that goes out the window.
00:54:49
Speaker
Yep.
00:54:50
Speaker
So that's the episode.
00:54:52
Speaker
Let us know what you think on the female dating strategy.com forward slash the forum.
00:54:57
Speaker
Check out our Patreon for bonus content on patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy and submit your roast to scroats for our Thanksgiving roast.
00:55:05
Speaker
Check us out on Twitter at femdatstrat and on our Instagram at underscore the female dating strategy.
00:55:12
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens, and for all you hobo sexuals out there.
00:55:15
Speaker
You're one bad breakup away from being on the street, so earn your keep.
00:55:19
Speaker
Die mad.