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The Great SlapGate Debate: Is Male Violence Ever The Answer?
17 Plays3 years ago
The Queens are weighing in on the fallout from "The Slap" at the Oscars! Lilith and Savannah Debate - "Is Male Violence Ever the Answer?"
Additionally, Reaux does a deep dive into the marriage of Will Smith & Jada Pinkett, Jada's entanglements with Tupac, and the History of Chris Rock vs. The Smiths.
3:24 – Tommy Davidson/ Jada Pinkett Will Smith fight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMfT7fKeRAY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=undSilfB3AQ
Chris Rock / Jada Pinkett interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6IMtivar7Q
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Announcements
00:00:04
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Can't get enough of your favorite Bravo shows?
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Then check out Hot of the Mess, a pop culture podcast from The Dip hosted by me, Samantha Bush, aka Bravo Historian.
00:00:13
Speaker
New episodes of Hot of the Mess come out twice a week.
00:00:15
Speaker
Tuesday's show is about general pop culture, the latest headlines, whatever else is going on in my life.
00:00:20
Speaker
Well, Friday's episode is more focused on all things in the Bravo cinematic universe.
00:00:25
Speaker
Each week, I'm joined by Bravo obsessed fans and of course, Bravo celebrities themselves, such as Dorinda Medley, Tamara Judge, Margaret Josephs to kind of break down what happened during the week.
00:00:35
Speaker
And it might get weird and might get snarky, but it's definitely going to get messy.
00:00:38
Speaker
So subscribe to Hot Off The Mess wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:00:44
Speaker
Hey, Queens, are you ready to level up?
00:00:47
Speaker
Then join our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy where you can find weekly bonus content and FDS commentary on all the latest pop culture relationship and dating news.
00:00:59
Speaker
If you just want to listen to the extra bonus content, we have the Lurker Mode tier on our Patreon.
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Speaker
If you want merchandise, access to the private FDS Patreon Discord, which also includes a monthly book club with FDS and feminist-themed books, as well as FDS merchandise, t-shirts, mugs, and the opportunity to discuss topics with the FDS Podcast Queens live, as well as submit stories for our Rose Disco Queen and Nasus discussions on the podcast itself.
00:01:27
Speaker
So if you'd like access to all this and more, visit our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
Will Smith Slap Incident Overview
00:01:41
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:01:41
Speaker
Welcome to the female dating strategy podcast, the meanest female only podcast on the internet.
00:01:46
Speaker
I'm Rope.
00:01:47
Speaker
And I'm Savannah.
00:01:48
Speaker
And I'm Lilith.
00:01:49
Speaker
All right, today we're going to cover that subject that everyone's been covering.
00:01:52
Speaker
Again.
00:01:53
Speaker
Again.
00:01:55
Speaker
I think everyone's bored of it at this point.
00:01:57
Speaker
By the time this episode gets released, it's going to be like two weeks after it happened.
00:02:01
Speaker
But the Will Smith slap.
00:02:02
Speaker
We're debating the Will Smith slap.
00:02:04
Speaker
I'm hoping there's still drama involved.
00:02:06
Speaker
Slapgate.
00:02:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:08
Speaker
Honestly, I feel like this is going to go down in Oscars history.
00:02:11
Speaker
And so I feel like it's sort of going to be a timeless classic.
00:02:14
Speaker
At least I hope so.
00:02:16
Speaker
Basically, I wanted to talk about this because I noticed that me and Savannah had very, very different opinions on this.
00:02:21
Speaker
So this is going to be the Will Smith slap.
00:02:23
Speaker
Smackdown.
00:02:23
Speaker
So Ro, did you want to cover the history?
00:02:26
Speaker
Because to be honest, I've never listened to Chris Rock or Will Smith or Jade.
00:02:31
Speaker
Everything I know about Jade and Will Smith, I've learned against my will.
00:02:34
Speaker
So I don't really follow any of them.
00:02:36
Speaker
Yeah, Ro is the resident Will Smith, Jade Pinkett Smith historian here.
00:02:41
Speaker
So please.
00:02:42
Speaker
Yes, because I like them.
00:02:44
Speaker
I like them too.
00:02:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:02:45
Speaker
So tell us the
Will Smith's Career and Oscar History
00:02:46
Speaker
history, Ro.
00:02:46
Speaker
Okay, so...
00:02:47
Speaker
Smiths and The Rocks have known each other for a very long time, right?
00:02:50
Speaker
They're two feuding families.
00:02:52
Speaker
Well, I don't know how long they've been feuding.
00:02:53
Speaker
That's what makes this whole thing weird.
00:02:55
Speaker
So Will Smith came onto the scene.
00:02:56
Speaker
At least the 90s, right?
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah, in the early 90s as a rapper, right?
00:03:00
Speaker
With such wholesome hits as Parents Just Don't Understand, etc.
00:03:06
Speaker
Eventually, he was cast as the role of the Fresh Prince on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, became massively popular, then got cast in some blockbuster movies like Independence Day, Men in Black, etc.
00:03:16
Speaker
Became a really, really bankable movie star, then started doing a lot of Oscar bait roles in the latter.
00:03:22
Speaker
I guess he's at the latter half of his career now.
00:03:24
Speaker
And somewhere around 2016, he was in a film that was released called Concussion, where he played a doctor who discovered the disease CTE, which is something that was affecting NFL players from getting their heads hit a bunch of times.
00:03:37
Speaker
So apparently, he was somewhat upset that he wasn't nominated for Concussion.
00:03:42
Speaker
an Oscar for that role because it was clearly an Oscar bait role.
00:03:45
Speaker
And he'd been doing a couple of Oscar bait roles at that point.
00:03:49
Speaker
And Jada made a statement about the fact that the Academy constantly overlooks African-American and other people of color when it comes to awarding, right?
00:03:59
Speaker
Both films, directing, actors.
00:04:02
Speaker
Is that Oscar so white?
00:04:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:03
Speaker
And then they started the hashtag Oscar so white campaign and encouraged a bunch of people to boycott.
00:04:08
Speaker
And I think a few people actually did.
00:04:10
Speaker
And they actually did pick up traction enough to the point where the Academy the next year tried to atone for that and started to be more conscious of platforming filmmakers of color.
00:04:19
Speaker
Right.
00:04:19
Speaker
So now 2016, Chris Rock also hosted the
Chris Rock and Jada Pinkett Smith Tensions
00:04:24
Speaker
Oscars.
00:04:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:24
Speaker
And during the hosting of the Oscars, he makes a joke that's basically somewhere on the lines of Jada Pinkett boycotting the Oscars is like me boycotting Rihanna's panties.
00:04:36
Speaker
I wasn't invited.
00:04:37
Speaker
Right.
00:04:37
Speaker
Basically digging at her acting skills.
00:04:39
Speaker
Right.
00:04:39
Speaker
So Chris Rock has been making comments about Jada for a long time.
00:04:42
Speaker
He had it coming.
00:04:43
Speaker
That's my stance anyway.
00:04:44
Speaker
It goes deeper than that event.
00:04:45
Speaker
So there's two things about that particular comment, which was one, it was kind of like, quote, breaking code because a lot of Black Hollywood agreed, even if they didn't necessarily agree that Will Smith in particular deserved the award.
00:04:58
Speaker
There was sort of a contentious discussion about it because there were some people that agreed that, yes, like the Academy is historically very much overlooked African-American artists.
00:05:06
Speaker
But at the same time, Will Smith just wasn't that great in that movie.
00:05:10
Speaker
And a lot of them felt like it was an ego trip.
00:05:12
Speaker
So Chris Rock was sort of, he just told the line, right?
00:05:15
Speaker
He was somewhere on the fence where he was kind of making fun of the Oscar So White campaign, which I think annoy a lot of black Hollywood.
00:05:21
Speaker
But at the same time, he was right.
00:05:23
Speaker
The general sentiment at the time was like, this feels like an ego trip from the Smiths, right?
00:05:27
Speaker
So that's
Jada, Tupac, and Will Smith's Relationship Dynamics
00:05:29
Speaker
that thing.
00:05:29
Speaker
So the other problem is, I don't know if people know this, but... Tell us about the Tupac.
00:05:34
Speaker
Love triangle.
00:05:35
Speaker
Okay.
00:05:35
Speaker
So there's a Tupac love triangle is actually tangentially related to this.
00:05:39
Speaker
So it happens to be that Jada Pinkett and Tupac were childhood friends and they were friends for a very long time up until his death.
00:05:47
Speaker
And he was murdered on the strip in Las Vegas after Mike Tyson fight sometime in the mid nineties, like very tragically.
00:05:52
Speaker
It was a huge thing in the hip hop world.
00:05:53
Speaker
And he's kind of become deified in the hip hop world because of his short but tragic life and impact on the hip hop community.
00:05:59
Speaker
But
00:05:59
Speaker
Pac was always like looked at as this alpha male type, right?
00:06:03
Speaker
He was very like hyper masculine, pop off whenever, whenever.
00:06:07
Speaker
And Will Smith is not right.
00:06:08
Speaker
Will Smith was like, he's a nice guy.
00:06:10
Speaker
He's a nice guy.
00:06:11
Speaker
Exactly.
00:06:12
Speaker
And even then he was constantly getting like slammed by other hip hop artists for being corny because he didn't say he didn't use like the N word and he didn't use like swear words in his raps.
00:06:22
Speaker
Yeah, he was quite unique for that.
00:06:24
Speaker
Like, he never, like, he didn't ever swear in his rap.
00:06:26
Speaker
And they were still really good songs.
00:06:27
Speaker
He was a good boy.
00:06:29
Speaker
And also, but he also kind of showed that you don't, like, need to be dropping F-bombs and N-bombs to make a good rap song as well.
00:06:36
Speaker
And I think maybe that unsettled people.
00:06:38
Speaker
He was like making bops and he was more of a party rapper, right?
00:06:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:42
Speaker
He wasn't a hard like alpha male gangster, but gangster rap had a chokehold on hip hop at the time, right?
00:06:47
Speaker
So he was such a juxtaposition.
00:06:49
Speaker
So I haven't read his book, but excerpts I've seen him talk about, he talks about that time in his life and just feeling like constantly like people were trying to emasculate him.
00:06:57
Speaker
him because of the fact that he wasn't a Tupac type.
00:07:00
Speaker
And then to rub, you know, to add insult to injury or to rub salt in the wound a little bit, he even admits that he really liked Jada Pinkett and pursued Jada Pinkett and that he felt intimidated by Tupac, right?
00:07:10
Speaker
Because Tupac and her were actually really, really good friends.
00:07:13
Speaker
Like they'd known each other since they were kids, right?
00:07:14
Speaker
Didn't he say in one of his interviews or in his autobiography that he was actually jealous of their relationship?
00:07:19
Speaker
I'm not surprised because like, I remember Willow, she released a letter when she was about 15 that she wrote when she was nine.
00:07:25
Speaker
And in the letter, it was like, you know, Tupac, I wish you'd come back so you can make me and mummy happy.
00:07:30
Speaker
Bearing in mind Willow was born like years after Tupac died.
00:07:35
Speaker
Like she's clearly still talking about him.
00:07:38
Speaker
And Jada actually like when Tupac was arrested for sexual assault, she paid like a hundred thousand dollars to bail him out of jail.
00:07:45
Speaker
Okay, that makes me like her a little bit less.
00:07:47
Speaker
Did she really?
00:07:48
Speaker
I didn't hear about that.
00:07:49
Speaker
So that's news to me.
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, she paid to bail him out of jail.
00:07:51
Speaker
Wait, let me Google this.
00:07:52
Speaker
What the heck?
00:07:54
Speaker
That's news to me.
00:07:54
Speaker
Okay, because up until now, I was standing Jada Pinkett Smith as a queen of- I did read it somewhere.
00:07:59
Speaker
I might be wrong.
00:08:00
Speaker
If it's wrong, I'll cut it out.
00:08:00
Speaker
But I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that she paid to bail him out of jail when he was arrested for sexual assault in the 90s.
00:08:05
Speaker
Or rape.
00:08:06
Speaker
Like, sexual assault or rape.
00:08:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:08:09
Speaker
$100,000.
00:08:09
Speaker
Bearing in mind, back in the 90s, that was big, big change.
00:08:12
Speaker
Like, massive change.
00:08:14
Speaker
I'd be surprised if she actually had that much amount of money.
00:08:17
Speaker
So that's why I'm sort of a bit skeptical.
00:08:20
Speaker
I don't know about her family.
00:08:21
Speaker
Were they well off?
00:08:22
Speaker
Oh, no.
00:08:22
Speaker
I know nothing about Jada Pinker Smith at all.
00:08:25
Speaker
I know nothing about her.
00:08:26
Speaker
Her mom, well, based on the Red Table talk, like her mom was actually an addict and... Oh, okay.
00:08:31
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:31
Speaker
But I mean, she was a working actress.
00:08:33
Speaker
Like she was pretty, she'd been cast in a decent amount of films.
00:08:36
Speaker
But again, maybe it's true.
00:08:37
Speaker
I'm surprised only because that's a lot of money.
00:08:39
Speaker
And I don't know that she was ever that popular of an actress that she would have been able to afford that.
00:08:44
Speaker
I'm going to find a source.
00:08:45
Speaker
Yeah, let's find a source for that before we say that.
00:08:48
Speaker
Because that's a pretty big statement.
00:08:50
Speaker
I don't want to get flamed.
00:08:51
Speaker
But if it's not true, hold on.
00:08:52
Speaker
Apparently...
00:08:53
Speaker
He served nine months in prison for first degree sexual abuse in 1995, but that's according to fucking Reddit.
00:08:59
Speaker
So I don't know if that's true.
00:09:01
Speaker
No, it's true.
00:09:02
Speaker
He went to jail because apparently there was a girl that he picked up, I think from a club or something like that.
00:09:08
Speaker
And apparently a bunch of his bodyguards, either he had sex with her and then a bunch of his bodyguards gang raped her.
00:09:16
Speaker
Do you want to say that again?
00:09:16
Speaker
Sorry.
00:09:17
Speaker
She says a bunch of his bodyguards gang raped her.
00:09:20
Speaker
Damn.
00:09:21
Speaker
So then he went to jail.
00:09:23
Speaker
It's true.
00:09:24
Speaker
I've got a source that was in the newspaper at the time.
00:09:27
Speaker
Let me drop the source just so that we can add it to the show notes because I didn't like know that.
00:09:32
Speaker
OK, yeah, no, I found it.
00:09:33
Speaker
It says 1995 Pinkett contributed $100,000.
00:09:36
Speaker
dollars towards Shakur's bail as he awaited an appeal on the sexual abuse conviction.
00:09:41
Speaker
And speaking about Pinkett, Shakur said, Jada is my heart.
00:09:44
Speaker
She will be my friend for my whole life.
00:09:46
Speaker
And Pinkett said he was one of my best friends.
00:09:49
Speaker
He was like a brother.
00:09:50
Speaker
It was beyond friendship for us.
00:09:51
Speaker
Type of relationship we had, you only get once in a lifetime.
00:09:54
Speaker
Saying that in the context of a guy being accused of sexual assault, I'm like, girl...
00:10:00
Speaker
They were extremely, extremely close.
00:10:02
Speaker
I'm not sure if it was ever romantic, but it seems like the relationship that she had with Tupac is a lot, I guess, stronger and closer than the one she has with Will.
00:10:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:11
Speaker
Because she's like writing poems, like Willow's talking about Tupac.
00:10:15
Speaker
Tupac was writing poems about her.
00:10:16
Speaker
She was like his muse and stuff.
00:10:18
Speaker
I'm like, damn, okay.
00:10:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:20
Speaker
Yeah, so it was a deep, deep, deep, deep relationship, even if that doesn't mean it was romantic.
00:10:25
Speaker
But yeah, it was definitely a deep thing for both of them, I guess.
00:10:28
Speaker
Here's an excerpt from Will Smith's memoir.
00:10:31
Speaker
So Will Smith admits to being tortured by their connection.
00:10:33
Speaker
So Will Smith opened up about the early stages of his relationship with Jada Pinkett Smith in his new memoir, Will, and how Tupac Shakur left him feeling very insecure.
00:10:41
Speaker
explaining that Jada and the late rapper were high school friends who both fought their way from under the weight of abuse and neglect to become the household names they are today.
00:10:50
Speaker
Smith revealed how their close bond left him feeling a certain kind of way when they started dating.
00:10:54
Speaker
Though they were never intimate, their love for each other is legendary.
00:10:56
Speaker
They define ride or die, he wrote.
00:10:58
Speaker
In the beginning of our relationship, my mind was tortured by their connection.
00:11:01
Speaker
He was Pac and I was me.
00:11:02
Speaker
Setting up the scene of
00:11:04
Speaker
Will Smith feeling like he wasn't because he wasn't this hyper masculine gangster rapper type guy that he felt inadequate during this time.
00:11:11
Speaker
So Smith said Shakur had a fearless passion that was intoxicating a militant morality and a willingness to fight and die for what he believed is right and reignited a feeling of inadequacy he first felt when he saw his younger brother Harry stand up to their abusive father.
00:11:24
Speaker
Pac was like Harry.
00:11:25
Speaker
He triggered the perception of myself as a coward, wrote Smith.
00:11:28
Speaker
I hated that I wasn't what he was in the world and I suffered a raging jealousy.
00:11:31
Speaker
I wanted Jada to look at me like that.
00:11:34
Speaker
As Will and Jada's relationship continued to progress, she became less available to spend with her longtime friends.
00:11:39
Speaker
Something Smith said felt like a twisted kind of victory for him.
00:11:42
Speaker
If she chose me over Tupac, there is no way I could
90s Rap Culture and Will's Image
00:11:45
Speaker
be a coward.
00:11:45
Speaker
He added, I have really felt more validated.
00:11:47
Speaker
I was in a room with Tupac on multiple occasions, but I never spoke to him the way Jada loved Pac.
00:11:52
Speaker
rendered me incapable of being friends with him.
00:11:54
Speaker
I was too immature.
00:11:55
Speaker
Jada and Tupac met at the Baltimore School of Arts when they were both students.
00:11:58
Speaker
She said in the past they did share a disgusting kiss and decided to keep their relationship platonic.
00:12:06
Speaker
Speaking with Howard Stern in 2017, Jada said she and Pac got into a hardcore fight before his death as she feared his life was going in a destructive direction.
00:12:13
Speaker
The two weren't speaking when he was killed in September 1996.
00:12:16
Speaker
Will and Jada married the following year.
00:12:18
Speaker
Damn.
00:12:20
Speaker
That's a really tragic backstory.
00:12:21
Speaker
But I mean, like he was kind of getting more and more unhinged because he had been like he had been first of all, he'd been to jail and he'd been shot at before when he wasn't killed, I think, in the first attempt on his life.
00:12:31
Speaker
So he was just getting probably increasingly parented and increasingly aggressive and stuff like that.
00:12:35
Speaker
And it's kind of sad because you can see how Will Smith feels inadequate.
00:12:39
Speaker
But it's also like, yeah, but a lot of those gangster rappers are dead now.
00:12:43
Speaker
And you're alive and you're on the top of your career.
00:12:45
Speaker
So yeah, the results speak for themselves.
00:12:49
Speaker
But do you see the seeds planted of his feeling inadequate and then him feeling like he has to defend his wife, right?
00:12:54
Speaker
Or like, you know, be the guy like putting his ego.
00:12:57
Speaker
Be the guy who like uses physical force to defend the women he cares about, I guess.
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:02
Speaker
But also just like protecting his ego from like all the other guys who think they can try him or his family.
00:13:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:08
Speaker
Okay.
00:13:09
Speaker
Now back to the rocks, by the way.
00:13:11
Speaker
So just some doing more digging.
00:13:12
Speaker
Tony Rock, which is Chris Rock's little brother, actually was on a show produced by Will Smith's production company called All of Us.
00:13:20
Speaker
And Chris Rock did a cameo on Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.
00:13:24
Speaker
And Chris Rock and Jada Pinkett were in the Madagascar movies together.
00:13:28
Speaker
So there's a bunch of videos of them out doing press tours for Madagascar.
00:13:32
Speaker
So it's an animated film.
00:13:34
Speaker
Think from DreamWorks.
00:13:35
Speaker
I fucking love that movie.
00:13:36
Speaker
Honestly, one of my favorite movies when I was a child.
00:13:40
Speaker
Which character was Jada Pinkett Smith?
00:13:42
Speaker
Jada Pinkett was Gloria the Hippo, I think.
Smiths and Rocks: A Complicated History
00:13:46
Speaker
Oh, right.
00:13:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:13:47
Speaker
Honestly, love that movie.
00:13:48
Speaker
So anyways, I just wanted to share my love of that movie.
00:13:51
Speaker
So the Smiths.
00:13:52
Speaker
The Smiths and the Rocks have known each other for quite some time, dating back to the 90s.
00:13:56
Speaker
And even in particular, Chris Rock and Jada Pinkett have worked directly together.
00:14:01
Speaker
So this is not like a casual acquaintance.
00:14:03
Speaker
They've known each other for now decades, right?
00:14:06
Speaker
So this is not like... This is beef going back a long time, yeah.
00:14:09
Speaker
Yeah, this is beef going back a long time.
00:14:11
Speaker
And the tea that was spilled that I'm seeing both on Twitter and... Oh, and the other thing too is Chris Rock used to have a show called The Chris Rock Show on HBO of which Jada Pinkett was a guest.
00:14:21
Speaker
So there's videos of him interviewing Jada Pinkett Smith.
00:14:25
Speaker
And again, this is in the 90s.
00:14:26
Speaker
So the Smiths and the Rocks have crossed paths very many times.
00:14:30
Speaker
Chris Rock and Jada Pinkett Smith know each other beyond just the cursory...
00:14:34
Speaker
And didn't Chris Rock used to be in love with Jada Pinkett Smith as well?
00:14:37
Speaker
That's the tea.
00:14:38
Speaker
That's the tea that I started to spill that was on Twitter, right?
00:14:41
Speaker
So the tea is that, you know, Jada Pinkett was hot shit back in the 90s, right?
00:14:45
Speaker
She's still hot, but anyways, yeah.
00:14:47
Speaker
Yeah, she's still hot, but like, she was...
00:14:50
Speaker
She was in a bunch of really iconic Black 90s movies like Set It Off and Jason's Lyric.
00:14:56
Speaker
She was in The Nutty Professor with Eddie Murphy.
00:14:59
Speaker
So she was a really sought-after Black actress and kind of like... She was like the Beyonce of the film industry at that point, right?
00:15:06
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
00:15:07
Speaker
It's not really clear, like, why and when her career sort of dropped off.
00:15:10
Speaker
I think maybe when she started having, like, children, perhaps.
00:15:13
Speaker
I don't know.
00:15:13
Speaker
Like, since... Yeah.
00:15:15
Speaker
Jaden and Willow were born.
00:15:16
Speaker
She's not really been in huge films since then.
00:15:19
Speaker
So I'm not sure if that was the reason behind it.
00:15:21
Speaker
She was in Magic Mike XXL in 2015.
00:15:23
Speaker
Oh.
00:15:26
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:15:26
Speaker
Bad Moms, 2016, Girls Trip, 2017.
00:15:29
Speaker
So she was in the Madagascar films, 2005, 2012.
00:15:31
Speaker
It looks like she did take a bit of a break in the mid-2000s.
00:15:34
Speaker
Probably, yeah, because she was raising kids and stuff.
00:15:36
Speaker
And she had a band for a while, too.
00:15:39
Speaker
So she had like a metal band.
00:15:41
Speaker
She had a metal band?
00:15:42
Speaker
Oh my gosh, she's so cool.
00:15:44
Speaker
She did, yeah.
00:15:45
Speaker
Oh my god.
00:15:46
Speaker
She's so cool.
00:15:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:15:48
Speaker
And she was kind of based.
00:15:50
Speaker
There's two reasons that I've heard on Twitter, the TFC and spilt on Twitter about why her career might have cooled off.
00:15:58
Speaker
One of them was because she started becoming like very pro black women's empowerment.
00:16:02
Speaker
So in the mid nineties, there was something called the million man March that was organized by, I think Louis Farrakhan, very, very controversial nation of Islam leader.
00:16:13
Speaker
Basically, the push was to put African-American issues on the forefront of the political agenda.
00:16:20
Speaker
So a lot of black leaders at that point felt that Washington was just wholly... It was like Black Lives Matter, but of the 90s.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yes, exactly.
00:16:28
Speaker
So there was something that was organized slightly after that called the, I think, Million Woman March.
00:16:34
Speaker
And it was, and Jada Pinkett was like a prominent speaker there.
00:16:37
Speaker
Some of the tea on Twitter was that she kind of broke code because she was like putting black women's issues against black ahead of black men.
00:16:45
Speaker
And then back in the 90s, especially.
00:16:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:47
Speaker
Based, first of all.
00:16:49
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:49
Speaker
But back in the 90s, like that was a no go.
00:16:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:16:52
Speaker
That was like pretty much the entire black community would have shown you if you like talked about black women's issues over black men because they were considered, I guess, the bigger victim.
00:17:00
Speaker
Chris Rock on the Chris Rock show.
00:17:02
Speaker
There's a video of him basically like teasing her about it.
00:17:05
Speaker
Wow.
00:17:06
Speaker
Fuck this.
00:17:07
Speaker
I didn't like him before, but I hate him even more now.
00:17:10
Speaker
The other rumor is, is that, you know, to reiterate what Lilla said was that in the nineties, Chris Rock was one of Jada Pinkett's many, many suitors.
00:17:18
Speaker
Cause remember she was in like an Eddie Murphy movie.
00:17:20
Speaker
Eddie Murphy has been a huge, huge comedian for a very long time.
00:17:22
Speaker
So that's just puts you on like the top visibility for any type of comedian really.
00:17:28
Speaker
So some of the bad blood between them is because of thwarted romantic interest.
00:17:32
Speaker
Yeah, men act fucking stupid and bitter and will, like, make constant little needling remarks when you reject them.
00:17:39
Speaker
So, again, another point against Chris Rock in my mind.
00:17:42
Speaker
But anyways.
00:17:43
Speaker
There's some discussion from other actors at the time, and I think Tommy Davidson was another prominent comedian in the 90s.
00:17:51
Speaker
And he did a movie with Jada Pinkett Smith.
00:17:54
Speaker
And he just did an interview where he said that allegedly in the script...
00:17:59
Speaker
They had written in like a kiss or some kind of intimacy in the script unbeknownst to Jada Pinkett Smith and that the producer said Jada Pinkett was fine with it, but something happened.
00:18:11
Speaker
He didn't really elaborate and Will Smith got upset and actually confronted him and they almost fought like in his trailer.
00:18:17
Speaker
So apparently like Will Smith popping off because people got fresh with his wife has been a thing that's been going back a while.
00:18:24
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:27
Speaker
Is he trying to be Tupac Mark II?
00:18:29
Speaker
Because Tupac would do that shit.
00:18:32
Speaker
He would absolutely do that shit.
00:18:34
Speaker
Probably with a gun as well.
00:18:37
Speaker
It could be.
00:18:39
Speaker
You know, he's like, he's not a gangster, right?
00:18:41
Speaker
And him and his brother aren't gangsters.
00:18:42
Speaker
They're very, like, solidly working class black people, but he didn't grow up in, like, the abject, like, hood poverty where, not that he didn't know gangsters, but he just wasn't that dude, right?
00:18:53
Speaker
Like, he was, and people used to think he was corny.
00:18:55
Speaker
So, yeah, he probably felt like, even then, I gotta defend my lady against all these, like, hood dudes, right?
00:19:04
Speaker
Because even if you look at, like,
00:19:06
Speaker
Because I was thinking back to the Tupac and Biggie feud.
00:19:09
Speaker
And even looking back at Tupac's like lyrics, there was one song he did.
00:19:14
Speaker
I can't, the name escapes me.
00:19:16
Speaker
Well, it's basically a diss track against Biggie.
00:19:18
Speaker
And it's honestly the meanest song.
00:19:20
Speaker
Yeah, hit him up.
00:19:20
Speaker
Yeah, it's the meanest song about somebody I think of.
00:19:23
Speaker
Grab your Glocks when you see Tupac.
00:19:25
Speaker
Yeah, call the cops when you see Tupac.
00:19:27
Speaker
Come on, it's the classic.
00:19:30
Speaker
And he literally opens a song with, you know, that's why I fucked your bitch.
00:19:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:36
Speaker
and i remember listening to it and thinking like this is legit like the meanest diss track even eminem couldn't could have written me the diss track than that like this is the meanest song i've heard about anyone it's a great song though like the beat is popping but i'm just sitting there thinking wow this guy was savage this guy was absolutely savage if biggie wasn't biggie
00:19:59
Speaker
See, but I respect that.
00:20:01
Speaker
I mean, if Biggie wasn't who he was, I'm sure that diss track would have just ended his career.
00:20:05
Speaker
But obviously, Biggie could, he was also a master on the mic as well.
00:20:10
Speaker
Well, somebody put a hit on him and he thought it was Bad Boy Records.
00:20:15
Speaker
So he got shot.
00:20:16
Speaker
So that's part of the energy behind that track.
00:20:20
Speaker
He was literally recovering from attempted murder.
00:20:22
Speaker
Yeah, it's the meanest song I've heard though, like anyone about someone else.
00:20:26
Speaker
Wait, so the hit was or the attempted hit was before recording that track?
00:20:30
Speaker
I think so.
00:20:31
Speaker
He was shot at a few times and then the last time killed him.
00:20:34
Speaker
So it's completely understandable to me if someone has attempted to murder you multiple times.
00:20:39
Speaker
I think that's like the healthiest way to deal with attempted murder is through art.
00:20:43
Speaker
Honestly, great coping skills.
00:20:44
Speaker
So Bad Boy Records said that it wasn't them.
00:20:46
Speaker
So that was the thing.
00:20:47
Speaker
So then it created this feud between the two.
00:20:49
Speaker
Right, right, right.
00:20:51
Speaker
Okay.
00:20:52
Speaker
And to be fair, I partly think that the Biggie T-Pack feud, because it was East Coast, West Coast, wasn't it?
00:20:57
Speaker
that was partly played up as well in the media for like, you know, ratings and shit.
00:21:01
Speaker
But, you know, so I'm not really sure how much of it was like genuine bad blood between them.
00:21:05
Speaker
Because I think at one point they were friends, T-Pack and Biggie, but I don't know what happened there.
00:21:09
Speaker
But yeah, it sort of went back and forth for a while as well.
00:21:12
Speaker
So...
00:21:12
Speaker
Yeah, Hit Em Up is one of the great all-time diss records.
00:21:15
Speaker
But that's the energy that a lot of the 90s rappers had, right?
00:21:18
Speaker
Which culminated in both Tupac and Biggie being shot and killed.
00:21:22
Speaker
And a bunch of other countless rappers that were of lesser names.
00:21:26
Speaker
That's still sad.
00:21:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's sad.
00:21:29
Speaker
But that's the thing.
00:21:29
Speaker
So then you have all this going on and then you have corny-ass Will Smith, right?
00:21:33
Speaker
Will Smith bopping along.
00:21:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:36
Speaker
Getting jiggy with it.
00:21:40
Speaker
Exactly.
00:21:41
Speaker
I love that song, by the way.
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's not a bad song.
00:21:44
Speaker
I mean, but it's just like he was not, you know, he was wasn't really considered like part of their ilk.
00:21:49
Speaker
And he did he had a lot of buffs and he's been popular in the black community, but he just wasn't like he wasn't that dude.
00:21:55
Speaker
And at a time when gangster rap had a chokehold on like masculinity and what it meant to be black and masculine.
00:22:01
Speaker
He wasn't it.
00:22:02
Speaker
Yeah, I get that.
00:22:03
Speaker
I hear that.
00:22:04
Speaker
That's true.
00:22:04
Speaker
So is that enough background?
00:22:05
Speaker
I think that was all of the things I know.
00:22:07
Speaker
Now that you've gone into the whole background with Will Smith and Chris Rock, do you want to talk about the whole relationship dynamic between Jada Pinkett Smith and the fact that they have an open marriage?
00:22:17
Speaker
I feel like that also plays into this a bit.
00:22:18
Speaker
So Jada Pinkett created this...
00:22:21
Speaker
web show called The Red Table Talk.
00:22:23
Speaker
And on The Red Table Talk, they dissect difficult relationship issues, both with celebrities and also Jada Pinkett often has her mother, who they call Gammy, and their two kids, Jaden and Willow.
00:22:35
Speaker
And also, I think, Trey, which is Will Smith's son from his first marriage.
00:22:39
Speaker
So Will Smith, actually, that's another thing.
00:22:41
Speaker
Will Smith has a son named Trey, which is, I think, Willard Smith III, and they just call him Trey for that, who he had with his first wife, who he divorced and then eventually got married to Jada.
00:22:50
Speaker
So
00:22:50
Speaker
At some point, it didn't come out voluntarily.
00:22:52
Speaker
There was an R&B singer who was fairly popular called August Alsina.
Jada's 'Entanglement' with August Alsina
00:22:57
Speaker
And August Alsina was pretty much a BET staple for a while.
00:23:01
Speaker
He was a semi-popular R&B singer who went on some show and then talked about the fact that he had had an affair with Jada Pinkett.
00:23:09
Speaker
Now, it was always rumored, but it wasn't really confirmed until he did that interview.
00:23:14
Speaker
And then the Smiths were sort of back into a corner to finally answer questions about their marriage because of the fact that August Alsina actually publicly came out and said that he had an affair with, which Jada Pinkett called an entanglement.
00:23:29
Speaker
Right.
00:23:30
Speaker
So that's where the whole entanglement vocabulary came from because Jada Pinkett essentially had sex with him.
00:23:36
Speaker
Now the ethics around that are really, really fuzzy because the reason she knows August is because he was Jaden's friend, her oldest son's friend.
00:23:44
Speaker
Oh, okay.
00:23:44
Speaker
That's weird.
00:23:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:23:45
Speaker
I think he's a few years older than Jaden, but like obviously much younger than her.
00:23:49
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:49
Speaker
That's weird.
00:23:50
Speaker
He was of legal age and everything, but it still is like one really weird to be having sex with her son's friend.
00:23:55
Speaker
And then also she's much older.
00:23:57
Speaker
I
00:23:57
Speaker
I mean, at first I was like, okay, I had a tweet that was about this.
00:24:00
Speaker
Like, I think actually, even though I'm normally against polyamory or, you know, open marriages and stuff like on principle, I will say that women in Hollywood get cheated on all the time.
00:24:09
Speaker
And the women who are cheated on are just supposed to either like put up with it or it's seen as like normal for men to cheat on their wives in Hollywood.
00:24:16
Speaker
I want to point out sort of the double standard here that, you know, she has an affair and it's like,
00:24:21
Speaker
Oh, Will Smith is a cuck.
00:24:22
Speaker
Oh, he's emasculated, blah, blah, blah.
00:24:24
Speaker
She's a whore.
00:24:24
Speaker
Like, they get so much hate for that.
00:24:27
Speaker
And honestly, I think, low-key, she's kind of a queen for negotiating an open marriage for herself because, you know, rich and powerful men have been cheating on their wives since time immemorial.
00:24:38
Speaker
And like, you know, women used to get fucking executed for that, right?
00:24:40
Speaker
Like Anne Boleyn or was it Catherine Howard, I think.
00:24:43
Speaker
There was like, if you're even suspected of cheating on your, you know, rich and powerful husband.
00:24:47
Speaker
The fact that we live in a time women can cuck their husband and not be brutally punished for it.
00:24:51
Speaker
I think that's a win for feminism.
00:24:54
Speaker
And so I support women's rights, but also women's wrongs.
00:24:57
Speaker
So part of the frustration that I feel about the entire discussion is because she talked about the fact that they were actually separated, right?
00:25:04
Speaker
And Will Smith says that he said that I'm done making you happy.
00:25:07
Speaker
And essentially they were planning on separating and getting divorced.
00:25:11
Speaker
See, that makes me have even less of a problem with it.
00:25:13
Speaker
They were separated.
00:25:14
Speaker
Exactly.
00:25:15
Speaker
And quite frankly, Will Smith, you can see so many red carpet pictures of him really inappropriately flirting with his female co-stars, especially with like Eva Mendes and Charlize Theron.
00:25:27
Speaker
And it comes across.
00:25:28
Speaker
Didn't he like admit to cheating on her in the past, though?
00:25:31
Speaker
Oh, for sure.
00:25:32
Speaker
Like they said they didn't cheat.
00:25:33
Speaker
They said that they were separated when they were doing other people.
00:25:36
Speaker
This is why these open relationships are just more often than not a complete dumpster fire.
00:25:40
Speaker
Like, absolute dumpster fire.
00:25:42
Speaker
I refuse to believe that people who are genuinely happy in a marriage are going to be outside, like, seeking other people.
00:25:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:25:48
Speaker
So the consolation was that, okay, they were split up at the time.
00:25:52
Speaker
Now, anybody who Will Smith is messed with has not really come forward.
00:25:55
Speaker
The only reason this entire thing blew up is because August Alsina went on a show and talked about it.
00:26:00
Speaker
Really?
00:26:01
Speaker
And even said Will Smith was fine with it.
00:26:02
Speaker
Kind of a dick move.
00:26:03
Speaker
Don't kiss and tell, bro.
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:04
Speaker
Well, I mean, and that's the thing, like August was kind of, this is where he gets, again, side at Jada, because like August, I think was either, he'd been homeless, like for a lot of his life and then like also was recovering from drugs or something like that.
00:26:17
Speaker
So Jada kind of said that like she was mentoring him and then things kind of got like sexual somewhere in between there.
00:26:23
Speaker
And I'm like, yeah, that's really, really questionable ethics there.
00:26:28
Speaker
So that's why partially why people are giving Jada the side eye.
00:26:31
Speaker
One, it being her son's friend, the age gap, and then the circumstances in which he was when they started hooking up.
00:26:36
Speaker
So she picked a guy who was a little bit like emotionally... Quite vulnerable.
00:26:40
Speaker
Yeah, quite vulnerable.
00:26:41
Speaker
And I think part of the reason he talked about it is because he felt like he was discarded by her.
00:26:45
Speaker
That basically the Smiths went on with their marriage and then like his career didn't go anywhere.
00:26:50
Speaker
His career started to flop.
00:26:51
Speaker
And so he was like, man, all this happened.
00:26:53
Speaker
And especially after the entanglement came out, even more so his career...
00:26:57
Speaker
kind of went down in the tank because I don't know if they blackballed him or anything, but he just sort of, his moment was over in the music industry.
00:27:03
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:03
Speaker
It's weird because everyone says like, you know, Will's a mess of cock for putting up with this, et cetera.
00:27:08
Speaker
But it's not like, first of all, that like it was only Jada that had somebody.
00:27:12
Speaker
So when people are antagonizing Jada just for having an affair, then it feels definitely- Men cheat on their wives all the fucking time.
00:27:19
Speaker
It feels really sexist, right?
00:27:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:21
Speaker
I think the circumstances of that affair are messy and I feel like you can judge her for that, but that's not even what they're judging her for.
00:27:27
Speaker
They're just like trying to dig at will because of like her having sex with someone outside of their marriage at all.
00:27:32
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:33
Speaker
Supposedly agreed to.
00:27:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:34
Speaker
He supposedly agreed to because he said he was done with the marriage.
00:27:37
Speaker
They were essentially separated at the time.
00:27:38
Speaker
So, you know, even there's a video where he's talking about his book and Oprah directly asked him like, well, did you guys, she didn't actually have affairs.
00:27:44
Speaker
He's like, no, like we were separated.
00:27:46
Speaker
It's not like clear to me that they had an open marriage so much as that like they were trying to get divorced or at least like live separately and started dating other people before they were divorced and then at some point reconciled.
00:27:58
Speaker
I want to say, first of all, my initial knee-jerk reaction to the slap was...
00:28:02
Speaker
was to put myself in Jada Pinkett's shoes and think, if my man defended my honor like that by slapping other men, I'd be so fucking wet.
00:28:10
Speaker
I'd be like, that is so hot.
00:28:12
Speaker
But again, that's just me.
00:28:14
Speaker
I'm like, I am a proponent of Polycule Fight Club.
00:28:19
Speaker
Polycule Fight Club.
00:28:21
Speaker
Have we talked about Polycule Fight Club before?
00:28:23
Speaker
Okay, so this idea was first brought about by one of the OG mods of the FDS subreddit.
00:28:29
Speaker
I think we did talk about this before.
00:28:31
Speaker
I know, but I want to do a recap for maybe those who didn't listen to the episode.
00:28:34
Speaker
Polycule Fight Club.
00:28:35
Speaker
So what happened is all of the poly people were like hating on FDS for the fact that we're not pro-polyamorous relationships.
Humorous Takes on Relationships
00:28:43
Speaker
And so we decided FDS
00:28:46
Speaker
mods were like, let's like troll them a little bit and had this post like, okay, I support polyamory under the following conditions.
00:28:54
Speaker
No, what was it?
00:28:54
Speaker
It was like, it was also that like, there's no porn out there that appeals to female fantasies.
00:28:59
Speaker
So OG Jammies was like sort of trolling the poly and the porn people being like, there's no porn of like female fantasies.
00:29:04
Speaker
You know what my fantasy is, is I want to have a harem of men who fight each other every night and then I fuck the winner.
00:29:10
Speaker
And I remember seeing that as like, I don't think I was quite a mod yet at that time.
00:29:13
Speaker
I was like,
00:29:14
Speaker
I was like an FDS disciple.
00:29:16
Speaker
I remember seeing that and thinking like, queen, like that is, I fully agree 1000%.
00:29:21
Speaker
That's my fantasy too.
00:29:25
Speaker
If it sounds pretty sexy.
00:29:27
Speaker
It sounds sexy, right?
00:29:28
Speaker
Like I honestly...
00:29:30
Speaker
I ironically love MMA just because I think it's hot as fuck when men fight each other.
00:29:34
Speaker
I just think it's hot when men beat the shit out of her.
00:29:35
Speaker
And it's not, I think it's hot when men beat the shit out of each other.
00:29:39
Speaker
And that's not even that weird because lots of animals in nature do this, right?
00:29:42
Speaker
Basically all ruminants, for example, the male deer, you know, fight each other.
00:29:46
Speaker
And then the female deer, like the does, they fuck the winner.
00:29:49
Speaker
Goats are like this.
00:29:50
Speaker
Sheep are like this.
00:29:50
Speaker
Rams are like this.
00:29:51
Speaker
So that's not even unprecedented.
00:29:53
Speaker
And I'm not a psychopath for thinking it's hot when men fight each other.
00:29:56
Speaker
Okay.
00:29:56
Speaker
I mean, I watched WWE for like 15 years, so I can't really disagree.
00:30:02
Speaker
I think it's hot when men fight each other so yeah I was like as soon as I saw the Will Smith slap I was like man if that was my man I would be super into that I'd fuck him so hard after that because I think that's what men are for is for fighting other men on behalf of the queen like I think that I unironically see women in relationships as a queen and her man is like her soldier and she commands him to do things and then go he goes out and does her bidding I think that is like the ideal relationship dynamic so I was like nice good for her
00:30:28
Speaker
And then all these other people started chiming in being like, oh, violence at the Oscars is unacceptable.
00:30:34
Speaker
And I'm just like, you know what?
00:30:35
Speaker
I need to come up with a whole moral justification to justify my initial reaction of supporting the Will
Public vs. Private Confrontations
00:30:42
Speaker
Smith slap.
00:30:42
Speaker
And here we are today.
00:30:44
Speaker
He should have just did it backstage.
00:30:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:46
Speaker
I think it was just the shock of it being during the live broadcast.
00:30:49
Speaker
He should have just met him backstage.
00:30:51
Speaker
Yeah, do it without any cameras, okay?
00:30:52
Speaker
No witnesses, right?
00:30:53
Speaker
I mean, for me, I came at it from a totally different angle.
00:30:57
Speaker
So I actually found out about the slap from a group of police officers.
00:31:02
Speaker
They were saying, oh my gosh, have you seen this?
00:31:04
Speaker
Because I was just hanging out with them for the day, as you do.
00:31:06
Speaker
And they actually said that if that happened in the UK, like Will Smith would have been arrested.
00:31:13
Speaker
So when people were saying, I guess, you know, non-celebrities were saying, yeah, that's so great.
00:31:17
Speaker
It's just like, well, he would have actually been given a criminal record for that because in the UK, at least, I don't know how it is in the US, but they can and they have successfully prosecuted people without the victim's consent or cooperation if they have, you know, like evidence.
00:31:31
Speaker
So if it's on video that you've assaulted somebody, yeah, they would have arrested him.
00:31:34
Speaker
And I was just thinking like,
00:31:35
Speaker
I don't want to date a felon.
00:31:37
Speaker
Like, I'm not going to date... And if you want to find out why, just watch our 10 reasons to not date a prisoner.
00:31:41
Speaker
But I don't want to date a felon over something that didn't need to happen.
00:31:45
Speaker
Like, if you want to be pissed off at him, that's fine.
00:31:47
Speaker
But I will be sitting there thinking, you didn't... Like, you know, why have you created all this trouble for yourself and for me, being potentially shipped off to prison because of a slap that didn't need to happen?
00:31:57
Speaker
I'm more for like if it was in like if like Chris Rock physically attacked Jada, then that's justified.
00:32:03
Speaker
But that wasn't the case.
00:32:04
Speaker
And for me, it opened up a wider discussion around comedy itself.
00:32:08
Speaker
So I saw a lot of people saying you shouldn't joke about people's appearances or their disabilities, which I absolutely agree with.
00:32:14
Speaker
But let's be real, Chris Rock is not the only person to do that.
00:32:17
Speaker
And he wasn't the only one who laughed as well.
00:32:19
Speaker
Like, if we want to have a discussion about, you know, the boundaries of comedy, then that's absolutely fine.
00:32:25
Speaker
But all the people saying that, I'm sure they've all laughed at somebody's appearance or disability before, because that's what comedy is.
00:32:32
Speaker
Comedy has essentially mutated into something that's got absolutely no boundaries.
Boundaries of Comedy and Will's Reaction
00:32:36
Speaker
I mean, Ricky Gervais would have been even more brutal.
00:32:38
Speaker
If you saw him at the Golden Globes, he went in, absolutely went in and probably crossed so many lines.
00:32:43
Speaker
But, you know, nobody was calling for him to be slapped.
00:32:46
Speaker
I think Ricky Gervais should be slapped.
00:32:47
Speaker
I hate him too.
00:32:48
Speaker
So, I mean, to be fair.
00:32:51
Speaker
But that's like a wide discussion on comedy.
00:32:53
Speaker
I think if Chris Rock had said it, like backstage or unprovoked, but, you know, comedians at these shows, they always tell unfunny jokes trying to rip the piss out of celebrities.
00:33:02
Speaker
Like he was doing his job at the end of the day.
00:33:05
Speaker
And whilst Jada doesn't have to laugh, she's, you know, well done a right to be offended.
00:33:10
Speaker
But yeah, Will Smith's initial reaction was very weird to me because it looked like, I might be wrong, that he was initially laughing and then saw her reaction and then probably went into two backwards.
00:33:20
Speaker
remember T-Pack T-Pack would fuck him up and then decided to go do that no but actually I think that's actually maybe an area where we agree I think that he laughed at first and then he saw his wife's reaction and then saw her give the death the glare and I think actually that's a very good thing for a man to be that reactive to a woman's death glare I think that's an incredible amount of power that I really admire in a woman if your death glare is enough to make a man go slap another man I'm like queen
00:33:47
Speaker
Everyone keeps saying that, like, that death glare thing, but there's video that's come out and it looks like Jada was just chilling.
00:33:53
Speaker
That's why I'm feeling like people are just blaming her just to blame her.
00:33:56
Speaker
I'm not blaming her.
00:33:57
Speaker
I'm saying Queen.
00:33:58
Speaker
I'm kind of, like, anti it's Jada's fault that Will snapped in that moment theory because, once again, I feel like they're just blaming her because there's other video that came out of someone that was filming behind them and it doesn't look like... It looks like Jada laughed and then, like, kind of rolled her eyes.
00:34:11
Speaker
I think, like, the laugh was sort of a fake laugh, like a fake Kanye laugh, and that...
00:34:16
Speaker
The psycho laugh.
00:34:18
Speaker
And the rumor has been that Will Smith has talked to Chris Rock about coming after his wife, especially after the Oscar So White campaign and the jokes there.
00:34:25
Speaker
And he's in more or less as a man, knowing how he moved with some of the other people in the industry, he was like, listen, leave my wife out of it.
00:34:32
Speaker
It's okay if you come after me.
00:34:34
Speaker
And then also given the fact that the Smiths and the Rocks have known each other for a very long time, that it's possible that the conversation was had at
00:34:41
Speaker
before that and then in that moment when Chris didn't respect that boundary Will Smith snapped that's what it looked like more so to me okay it's definitely not Jada's fault and I agree with like bro I'm seeing all these takes that oh she made him do it you know she manipulated him and like she's allowed to pull facial expression that doesn't make her responsible for Will's actions personally I don't think that Jada would have like wanted him to slap Chris Rock like that because no no
00:35:07
Speaker
If we're talking about, you know, raising awareness for alopecia, which, by the way, like, is, you know, we could do a whole topic on the politics around black women's hair.
00:35:15
Speaker
As a woman, and especially as a black woman, that would be absolutely devastating.
00:35:19
Speaker
But ultimately, the conversation wasn't about alopecia or people suffering from it.
00:35:23
Speaker
It was about, oh my gosh, you know, you know, Chris Rock got rocked by Will.
00:35:27
Speaker
That was a conversation.
00:35:28
Speaker
And then, you know, Jada, you know, nobody asked if she was okay.
00:35:31
Speaker
Like, nobody gave a shit about her.
00:35:32
Speaker
But somehow, over time, especially now Will has resigned from the Academy and issued an apology, people are now switching to blaming Jada for Will's actions.
00:35:41
Speaker
I'm not blaming Jada for Will's actions.
00:35:43
Speaker
I'm saying that, in his mind...
00:35:45
Speaker
No, no, I'm not saying you're doing it.
00:35:46
Speaker
I'm just saying that's the general narrative now.
00:35:48
Speaker
It's shifted.
00:35:49
Speaker
True.
00:35:49
Speaker
But what I'm saying, though, is that, like, Will Smith did it for himself.
00:35:53
Speaker
OK, so he saw her reaction and he's probably like, oh, shit, she's going to like... Men do this all the time.
00:35:59
Speaker
Like, my own boyfriend is like this sometimes.
00:36:01
Speaker
He'll laugh at something that I don't find funny.
00:36:03
Speaker
And then he sees that I didn't laugh.
00:36:05
Speaker
And then he face immediately drops and he's like, oh, never mind.
00:36:07
Speaker
I didn't think it was funny kind of thing.
00:36:08
Speaker
Right.
00:36:09
Speaker
That's just what men be like.
00:36:10
Speaker
You know, they kind of like are very sensitive to women's facial expressions.
00:36:14
Speaker
I think that's a good thing.
00:36:15
Speaker
And so he did that basically to like feel like a man is what I think was going on in his mind.
00:36:19
Speaker
And then we can have a conversation around like, oh, you know, he did this to feel like a man.
00:36:23
Speaker
Like, should we define masculinity as being violent and so on?
00:36:26
Speaker
And like, I think not necessarily.
00:36:28
Speaker
But that being said, I do think that I don't know.
00:36:30
Speaker
I think I do very much subscribe to the talk shit, get hit moral philosophy, which is that like...
00:36:36
Speaker
I don't know.
00:36:36
Speaker
I find like men, especially men like Chris Rock, where they make a lot of jokes against women.
00:36:41
Speaker
The only thing like misogynistic men don't give a shit about women's feelings or, you know, if people are saying, oh, she should have stood up for herself or something, you know, that wouldn't have gone down for her very well either.
00:36:50
Speaker
Right.
00:36:51
Speaker
So for a lot of misogynistic men, the only thing keeping them in check is fear of consequences from other men.
00:36:56
Speaker
And that's why I'm not totally against the slap.
00:36:58
Speaker
And to go back to Savannah's earlier point about like why wasn't Will
Legal Perspectives on the Slap
00:37:02
Speaker
Smith arrested.
00:37:02
Speaker
So the United States is one of the most carceral countries in the world.
00:37:06
Speaker
But generally you have to press charges.
00:37:09
Speaker
Well, no, you can't.
00:37:10
Speaker
The state can go ahead and press charges without the victim.
00:37:14
Speaker
But especially in California, because the jails are so full that a lot of shit slides unless people actually want to pursue a case.
00:37:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:20
Speaker
So a part of that is because like it's so over policed and the jails are so clogged.
00:37:25
Speaker
So a lot of people always talk about like lax laws in California or lax things on celebrities.
00:37:29
Speaker
And it's not that that's not true, but also California's laws in some respects have started to be really lax because of the fact that they were so carceral at one point that they basically overflowed the prisons and they don't have the bandwidth and capacity to police as heavily as they used to.
00:37:45
Speaker
Sorry, our prisons are full of people with minor drug charges.
00:37:47
Speaker
We can't imprison people for actual assault.
00:37:50
Speaker
It was minor drug charges and they used to have like the three strikes law, which is that if you committed three felonies, you went into jail for life.
00:37:56
Speaker
Like it used to be really, really carceral in California.
00:37:58
Speaker
So like they kind of reversed a lot of that stuff back, but because he's a celebrity, he definitely obviously gets privileges over other ones.
00:38:03
Speaker
But in general...
00:38:04
Speaker
That's just my cultural reference point between the UK and the United States is that, yes, in most cases they can proceed without a victim's compliance, but it's just a matter of do they want to do the paperwork?
00:38:14
Speaker
Is it worth it?
00:38:15
Speaker
And then also, are they likely to get a conviction?
00:38:17
Speaker
Same thing with cops.
00:38:18
Speaker
They're always like, our legal system is great.
00:38:21
Speaker
Our justicism is great.
00:38:22
Speaker
So the cops are always sort of weighing the options when it comes to minor incidents like that.
00:38:27
Speaker
Which it is minor, right?
00:38:28
Speaker
He didn't hurt the guy.
00:38:29
Speaker
He's still standing.
00:38:31
Speaker
There's no like permanent damage.
00:38:32
Speaker
He slapped him.
00:38:33
Speaker
It's humiliating, but it wasn't like he hurt him any type of significant way.
00:38:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:37
Speaker
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00:38:40
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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00:39:36
Speaker
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00:39:39
Speaker
The other point that I really did not like around this narrative was comparing Will Smith to a domestic abuser.
00:39:45
Speaker
Like, a few, you know, feminists that I do actually really respect on Twitter were saying stuff like, oh, you know, if this is how he's like in public, imagine what he's like in private kind of thing.
00:39:53
Speaker
Like, inviting people to assume that he's probably, that he potentially, like, abuses Jada behind closed doors.
00:39:58
Speaker
And I really did not like that.
00:40:00
Speaker
I think that...
00:40:01
Speaker
Domestic abuse and abuse is a pattern of degrading and coercive behaviors that's intended to like intimidate the victim into compliance.
00:40:10
Speaker
I did not get the impression that Will Smith was doing this to control or intimidate Jada.
00:40:16
Speaker
I saw this as just like a, you know, I feel emasculated.
00:40:18
Speaker
I want to go out there and feel like a man kind of thing.
00:40:20
Speaker
Right.
00:40:20
Speaker
But I don't get the impression that it was like, not all violence is abusive and not all violence.
00:40:25
Speaker
Abuse is even violent.
00:40:27
Speaker
Like a lot of abusers are, you know, rely on emotional abuse or financial abuse, financial control and so on.
00:40:33
Speaker
Right.
00:40:33
Speaker
So I don't think that's like a fair comparison.
00:40:36
Speaker
I don't know what you thought about that, Savannah.
00:40:38
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with you on that a little because I still think it's a personal beef between Chris and
Celebrity Reactions and Hypocrisy
00:40:44
Speaker
Will.
00:40:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:44
Speaker
Like, in fact, I'm convinced of that.
00:40:46
Speaker
I think obviously the other things that have been going on in the media with Will Smith, people making fun of the entanglement and people asking them pretty inappropriate questions about their marriage and stuff.
00:40:55
Speaker
Like there's a pretty, there was a viral video of Laverne Cox making an entanglement joke to them at a previous engagement on the red carpet.
00:41:04
Speaker
Did they get slapped?
00:41:09
Speaker
No, I don't think so.
00:41:10
Speaker
But Will Smith has been holding it in for years, right?
00:41:13
Speaker
He's like,
00:41:15
Speaker
don't know if it's been holding it so it could be a culmination of him drawing a boundary because of a lot of people trying and testing the entire situation after they talked about it but i also think it was a personal beef between will smith and chris rock so i feel like everyone else who tried to jump in and create a narrative to somehow include themselves in it like we're like yeah go on your whole rant we recorded this already for fps but please go on the whole rant about how everyone was making it about themselves because i love that rant i
00:41:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:44
Speaker
So it was frustrating because I was listening into a bunch of spaces and just like looking at what was happening on Twitter.
00:41:50
Speaker
And I feel like two things simultaneously happened where there was a bunch of people who, because they like to look like they're quote unquote right on Twitter, started condemning will like Rhea Shriver came out and said, violence is never the answer.
00:42:04
Speaker
I'm like, like what do you have to do with any of this shit?
00:42:06
Speaker
Like Maria Shriver and then a Judd Apatow who wasn't at the Academy Awards, like he could have
00:42:12
Speaker
Killed him.
00:42:13
Speaker
Goes on Twitter and is like, he could have killed Chris Rock and starts talking about like this.
00:42:17
Speaker
He has a history of violence and then saying that he was like unhinged and murderous.
00:42:21
Speaker
And then like Bette Midler comes in and starts dragging Will Smith.
00:42:25
Speaker
So there's like this entire, first of all, it's just like the Hollywood like gold guard coming in and trying to really, really antagonize the entire situation and like publicly condemn and virtue signal Will Smith.
00:42:36
Speaker
It also just seems low key kind of racist, but I don't know.
00:42:38
Speaker
That's not my place to decide.
00:42:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:40
Speaker
So, okay.
00:42:41
Speaker
That was going to be my second point.
00:42:42
Speaker
Now what happened because of that is because not that they shouldn't have been upset that he slapped someone, but it was like the language surrounding it started to feel very, uh, like on that line of feeling very, very racist to black Twitter.
00:42:56
Speaker
So black Twitter goes the fuck off.
00:42:58
Speaker
Right.
00:42:59
Speaker
And starts like talking.
00:43:00
Speaker
I love that.
00:43:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:02
Speaker
I loved every minute of that.
00:43:04
Speaker
My favorite one was Jim Carrey condemning Will Smith.
00:43:07
Speaker
Like, this was the worst moment at an awards show ever kind of thing.
00:43:10
Speaker
And then someone quote retweeted that with a video of him forcibly kissing Alicia Silverstone at another awards show and being like, you sexually, with the caption, you sexually assaulted Alicia Silverstone on stage.
00:43:20
Speaker
Yeah, so all the people that were criticizing Will Smith had all of their skeletons dragged out of the closet.
00:43:25
Speaker
Like Zoe Kravitz, for example, made some passive-aggressive comments about it, too.
00:43:29
Speaker
And people were calling her a predator because she was apparently hitting on Jaden Smith when he was, like, 14.
00:43:34
Speaker
Which, again, gross, weird.
00:43:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:37
Speaker
Okay.
00:43:37
Speaker
You're like 10 years older than him.
00:43:38
Speaker
You're a grown woman.
00:43:39
Speaker
He's a 14 year old boy.
00:43:40
Speaker
And he wasn't even that hot when he was 14.
00:43:42
Speaker
So that's just fucking weird of you to be hitting on him when he's that young.
00:43:45
Speaker
I don't know.
00:43:46
Speaker
And then Judd Apatow also very famously kept hiring James Franco.
00:43:52
Speaker
Is like a mass rapist or like serial rapist.
00:43:54
Speaker
Not even just that, but apparently he assaulted Busy Phillips on set, like actually fought her.
00:43:59
Speaker
And she's talked about this in interviews on a set of one of his movies.
00:44:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:03
Speaker
So me reading like the white Twitter celebrities talking about this, it's like violence is never the answer when a black person uses it.
00:44:10
Speaker
Like that's kind of the like vibe that I kind of got.
00:44:14
Speaker
So, but again, I'm like pro-violence.
00:44:15
Speaker
So maybe that's just why.
00:44:18
Speaker
Like it went from just like, I think it would have been fine if they just sort of condemn it, but it went from like, they're being like hysterical about it.
00:44:24
Speaker
okay, this is not a good idea.
00:44:25
Speaker
It's like Will Smith's a violent, unhinged maniac, right?
00:44:29
Speaker
And I'm like, no, he's not, right?
00:44:32
Speaker
He's just a guy who had a moment and it feels like they didn't want to extend the grace to Will Smith that they would have for a white celebrity and also if his wife had been white.
00:44:41
Speaker
And that's when like black Twitter starts to come in and gets really, really pissed off and offended and starts talking about like
00:44:47
Speaker
Why is everybody offended when someone defends black women?
00:44:50
Speaker
And then also, why are people trying to like come for Will Smith?
00:44:54
Speaker
Like they don't have all their own skeletons in their closet.
00:44:56
Speaker
Like this is very, very disproportional to what actually happened.
00:45:00
Speaker
So black Twitter starts to get defensive because they're like, we're not going to let you cancel Will Smith.
00:45:03
Speaker
He's been like fucking perfect for probably his entire career.
00:45:07
Speaker
Almost his entire career, except for this one moment.
00:45:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:10
Speaker
Right, right.
00:45:10
Speaker
When he got an Oscar, right?
00:45:11
Speaker
20 minutes before he won the greatest achievement in film.
00:45:16
Speaker
He just has a really like, you know, a low point in his career.
00:45:19
Speaker
And once again, you know, it could be a culmination.
00:45:22
Speaker
Everything has happened over the past year or so because of the entanglement thing could be just personal beef with Chris Rock.
00:45:27
Speaker
But so anyway, it's like black Twitter reacts against that.
00:45:30
Speaker
And then the other thing too, that started to come out was all the other people started making it about themselves such that it started to antagonize black Twitter even more.
00:45:39
Speaker
So people were coming out like right wing Twitter was coming out and saying, well, what if Will Smith had been a white man and he slapped Chris Rock, then they'd be
00:45:47
Speaker
calling this a hate crime and like making their two cents
Alopecia Awareness and Cultural Implications
00:45:50
Speaker
on it.
00:45:50
Speaker
Then you had like the trans community being like, this is why words are violence.
00:45:54
Speaker
And you guys don't take Dave Chappelle seriously enough.
00:45:57
Speaker
And you know, this is why people consider words to be violent, et cetera.
00:46:01
Speaker
Then you had the people that were talking about alopecia and then like talking about how alopecia doesn't get like, it's not a funny condition and people shouldn't make fun of it.
00:46:09
Speaker
Then you had people that were kind of on Lilith's side and that was an interesting coalition.
00:46:14
Speaker
An interesting coalition.
00:46:15
Speaker
Who were like men, because it was like men and women who were like, it's, you should, if you're a man and you're a man of honor, you should defend your family and you shouldn't like tolerate anybody disrespecting your wife.
00:46:25
Speaker
I want to talk about the concept of honor-based violence.
00:46:28
Speaker
Well, let's get back to it.
00:46:28
Speaker
You should defend your wife, et cetera.
00:46:30
Speaker
And so you had all these different factions kind of coming into these like individual circles.
00:46:35
Speaker
And then you had the like, this is indicative that he's a domestic violence abuser.
00:46:39
Speaker
And a lot of that was coming from like white feminists.
00:46:41
Speaker
And that's why like white feminists started to get dragged, right?
00:46:44
Speaker
Like why are white women making this about themselves?
00:46:46
Speaker
Right?
00:46:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:47
Speaker
where it was like, this is a beef between two guys, right?
00:46:50
Speaker
And so it's been sort of interesting because I'm just not sure exactly why everyone feels the need to make a specific beef between these two guys about themselves.
00:47:00
Speaker
Like, I kind of understand what happened with Black Twitter where they got a little bit reactionary between all of the, like,
00:47:06
Speaker
stuff that was coming out of other parts of Twitter, especially the things that seemed like it was overly harsh.
00:47:10
Speaker
And then top of it, like them sort of ignoring their own skeletons in their closet.
00:47:15
Speaker
But I just don't get like why people aren't looking at this as like its own little thing rather than a larger cultural problem.
00:47:22
Speaker
And the only reason I can think of the reason people are doing it is because they're specifically black.
00:47:26
Speaker
Because I'm like, if it'd been like Ricky Gervais and I don't know, Robert Downey Jr. or something, people would still be really, really shocked.
00:47:33
Speaker
But would they be making like
00:47:34
Speaker
Would they just be like, Robert Downey Jr. had a messed up moment?
00:47:37
Speaker
And I hope he does well.
00:47:39
Speaker
They'd probably be like, oh, he was probably on drugs.
00:47:41
Speaker
Oh, his mental illness, blah, blah, blah, kind of thing.
00:47:44
Speaker
But they also, it seems like they would have more sympathy.
00:47:47
Speaker
But also, I think, I mean, let's be real.
00:47:49
Speaker
It happened because...
00:47:50
Speaker
like the reason why people, I guess, make it about themselves and extrapolating and coming to, is because it happened at the Oscars.
00:47:56
Speaker
If it happened backstage, like nobody would really care.
00:47:59
Speaker
It would have just been like perhaps a footnote in a gossip magazine, but it happened on stage in, you know, the Oscars and, you know, context matters.
00:48:07
Speaker
It's huge.
00:48:08
Speaker
Like, and you don't see stuff like that.
00:48:10
Speaker
People slapping comedians for making jokes.
00:48:13
Speaker
You just don't.
00:48:13
Speaker
So that's partly why.
00:48:14
Speaker
I know.
00:48:15
Speaker
I think it's definitely because it was at the Oscars that it became a thing.
00:48:17
Speaker
But it's like, like Lil said, some of that seems like it was the perception of Jada.
00:48:21
Speaker
Like if it had been a person who they felt was like more worthy of respect or defending, would they have understood it more?
00:48:29
Speaker
If it was someone making fun of like Angelina Jolie getting like breast cancer or having like a double mastectomy or something and like say
00:48:35
Speaker
for example, alternate universe, a white comedian makes fun, like say Ricky Gervais makes fun of Angelina Jolie for getting like a double mastectomy and Brad Pitt goes up and slaps him.
00:48:47
Speaker
Like, how would that reaction have gone down?
00:48:49
Speaker
I feel like people would have been defending Brad Pitt in that situation or more likely to defend him in that situation.
00:48:55
Speaker
Brad Pitt has gotten, like, up in people's face and slapped people.
00:48:58
Speaker
If I'm not mistaken, he actually did fight Harvey Weinstein, like, actually physically got in his face, if not slapped him, over Gwyneth Paltrow.
00:49:05
Speaker
Nice.
00:49:06
Speaker
King.
00:49:07
Speaker
No, I'm kidding.
00:49:07
Speaker
But that wasn't on camera, right?
00:49:09
Speaker
Oh, true.
00:49:10
Speaker
I wish there was a video of that.
00:49:12
Speaker
Brad Pitt's known to get gully from time to time, too, right?
00:49:15
Speaker
Like,
00:49:16
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:49:17
Speaker
But then again, I guess that situation was, I think Gwyneth Paltrow said that Harvey Weinstein had sexually assaulted her or harassed her.
00:49:24
Speaker
That was like an actual physical threat as well.
00:49:27
Speaker
And it was off camera.
00:49:28
Speaker
I mean, if you believe the story that Chris Rock's been an incel pining after Jada Pinkett for probably two decades, then you could also see that being the case.
00:49:36
Speaker
Like, bruh, like, just stop talking about my wife, you creepy ass clown.
00:49:39
Speaker
Because he's always like talking about it, right?
00:49:41
Speaker
And I agree with that stance as well.
00:49:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's also my stance.
00:49:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:45
Speaker
And the other thing, too, that was interesting is, like, a lot of people noted that, like, people went to check on Will first.
Chris Rock's Emotional Response
00:49:51
Speaker
True.
00:49:52
Speaker
More so than Chris Rock.
00:49:54
Speaker
The people did say that Chris Rock, like, people checked on him as well.
00:49:58
Speaker
And he looked really, really upset.
00:50:00
Speaker
Like, my sister went to a show.
00:50:02
Speaker
one of his like shows recently.
00:50:04
Speaker
Actually not recently, but he did a show recently and like when he came out, they gave him like a standing ovation for like 10 minutes and he looked like visibly like really emotional.
00:50:13
Speaker
Because the other side to this thing is like Chris Rock has been very, very open about his experiences of being beaten up, attacked, like sexually assaulted by bullies in school.
00:50:23
Speaker
And even when he became a really big celebrity, he was still getting jumped and beaten up as well.
00:50:28
Speaker
So...
00:50:29
Speaker
Yeah, there's just a lot of layers.
00:50:30
Speaker
And ultimately, like, you know, I guess I'm coming at this from an angle that the reason why, like, I guess, okay to defend this is because Will Smith is a celebrity.
00:50:39
Speaker
If he was an average Joe, then he would probably be looking at, like, a criminal charge in a criminal case and would become a felon.
00:50:46
Speaker
Because ultimately, Jada wasn't under any threats.
00:50:48
Speaker
Like, she wasn't under any physical threat.
00:50:50
Speaker
And you can go around slapping people for saying words, but that will land you in prison eventually.
00:50:56
Speaker
So I guess that's the angle I was coming at it from is that, I mean, celebrity double standards exist for a reason.
Celebrity Privilege and the Academy's Response
00:51:02
Speaker
But like when the average person was saying, yeah, I'd love it if my partner did that.
00:51:06
Speaker
I was like, I really wouldn't because I'm not dating a prisoner.
00:51:09
Speaker
So if you did that and went to prison, you were on your own.
00:51:13
Speaker
Period.
00:51:13
Speaker
That's the thing.
00:51:14
Speaker
I would want a man to defend my honor.
00:51:16
Speaker
I don't think he should have handled it that way.
00:51:19
Speaker
Because yes, I agree with Savannah.
00:51:20
Speaker
We're like, he should have handled it some other way that wouldn't have made him a felon in any other circumstance.
00:51:25
Speaker
But ultimately what I'm saying though, is that the reason why he can do that is because he's Will Smith.
00:51:29
Speaker
Like it doesn't apply to the rest, like to most people.
00:51:33
Speaker
Like it's not like if you got up on stage and slap somebody, it's not that you'll be able to sit back down and then the Academy gave in a weak ass bullshit, you know, things saying, we asked him to leave and he refused.
00:51:43
Speaker
Do you not have security?
00:51:44
Speaker
Like if that was anyone else, it's bullshit.
00:51:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:47
Speaker
Even that's debatable because the rumor was like they said that to cover their ass because people are like, why did you kick him out?
00:51:53
Speaker
It's bullshit because and also they've got security.
00:51:56
Speaker
Like if, say, a random person jumped the stage, they would get security to throw them out.
00:52:00
Speaker
Like, you know, you've got the biggest Hollywood stars in the world in one room and you and you can't forcibly remove somebody like who's been violent.
00:52:07
Speaker
Yeah, but imagine calling security on Will Smith and how bad those optics would be.
00:52:11
Speaker
Right before he was going to win an Oscar.
00:52:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:14
Speaker
I mean, but it's just like, but like, why say it then if it was going to be bad optics?
00:52:19
Speaker
They said, we asked him to leave and he didn't.
00:52:21
Speaker
They didn't ask him to leave.
00:52:22
Speaker
Like, they're just saying that.
00:52:23
Speaker
Yeah, they were just, that's what I'm saying.
00:52:25
Speaker
And it seemed like the institution came down on Will Smith so hard and everyone's like, he's a maniac.
00:52:29
Speaker
He should have been arrested right away.
00:52:31
Speaker
And I'm sure that in the confusion of the moment, because remember, people thought it was a joke, even in the live broadcast, the gravity of it probably didn't hit people for a while, right?
00:52:39
Speaker
Yeah, that's actually the other thing is when I saw the video at first, I thought it was staged.
00:52:42
Speaker
I thought this was like, oh, the Oscars, they have low ratings for the past few years.
00:52:46
Speaker
So, oh, let's have some slapstick comedy, you know, have Will Smith go up and slap Chris Rock kind of thing.
00:52:51
Speaker
Right.
00:52:51
Speaker
And then I was like, OK, but if this actually happened for real, that would be hot as fuck.
00:52:54
Speaker
I would love it if my man did that for me.
00:52:56
Speaker
Savannah, I want to respond to your sort of the class based analysis, actually, because I agree with that.
00:53:00
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:00
Speaker
Two multimillionaires slapping each other on stage or one slapping the other on stage.
00:53:05
Speaker
You know, if you're extremely wealthy and even if he was charged,
00:53:08
Speaker
He has the money to afford like the best lawyers probably would get off even if there were charges pressed.
00:53:13
Speaker
And honestly, it depends though.
00:53:15
Speaker
And he can afford to sell as well.
00:53:16
Speaker
Like he can just give Chris Rock if he wanted you $20 million and go away.
00:53:20
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:20
Speaker
And so a poor person would not be able to get away with that.
00:53:23
Speaker
But also I'm saying like, honestly, in most jurisdictions, they're not arresting a guy over a slap.
00:53:28
Speaker
Yeah, true.
00:53:28
Speaker
It's probably technically illegal.
00:53:30
Speaker
But if like, honestly, if cops wasted their time on that, the prisons would be clogged.
00:53:34
Speaker
So like, while I'm saying that he shouldn't have done that, and if a cop was a particularly hard ass, he definitely could have pressed charges.
00:53:41
Speaker
Right.
00:53:41
Speaker
But I'm just saying, I doubt in most places, it would have risen to the level of that person during prison time, unless the cop had a vendetta or the person had a vendetta and they really wanted charges pressed.
00:53:53
Speaker
But also, I don't think you have to actually... I mean, it can be a suspended sentence, but then that's still a criminal record as well.
00:54:00
Speaker
Man, the cops in Canada, especially in rural areas, are so bad when it comes to this.
00:54:05
Speaker
I know some people where they'd call the cops because someone was on their property trying to rob them and stuff, and then the cops came, and then they were like, ma'am, have you been drinking?
00:54:14
Speaker
And then threatening to arrest her for drinking on her own fucking property.
00:54:18
Speaker
Like...
00:54:19
Speaker
Like, right?
00:54:21
Speaker
Like that kind of stuff.
00:54:22
Speaker
Right.
00:54:22
Speaker
So the cops and cat are so fucking shit about that.
00:54:25
Speaker
They have the most stupid priorities on earth.
00:54:28
Speaker
Like, you know, a woman can be literally raped and they're like lazy.
00:54:31
Speaker
It's just straight up.
00:54:31
Speaker
They don't want to do the paperwork and shit.
00:54:33
Speaker
There's a person who actually had their car broken into and had like much worse crimes happen to them and had the police basically shrug.
00:54:39
Speaker
They're not going to give a fuck about a slap.
00:54:41
Speaker
Like for the most of the time.
00:54:43
Speaker
I mean, but the difference is, I mean, I guess,
00:54:45
Speaker
It's a false record in a way because the slap was recorded.
00:54:48
Speaker
But, you know, let's just say that the situation, you know, it was a party and it was recorded.
00:54:53
Speaker
Then, yes.
00:54:54
Speaker
I mean, but if it wasn't, it would just be he said, she said.
00:54:56
Speaker
But if they have evidence to prosecute, they can and they will.
00:55:00
Speaker
Even if it was recorded, I'm telling, I don't know.
00:55:02
Speaker
I don't know how it is in the UK.
00:55:02
Speaker
I feel like everyone has much more belief in their police and their ability and desire to prosecute crimes.
00:55:12
Speaker
Even if it was recorded and you have evidence, they're going to be like, they're basically going to try to mediate the situation and be like, all right, go home and then like, leave it alone.
00:55:20
Speaker
Like they're not going to arrest somebody over it.
00:55:22
Speaker
Like if there's no damage, they'll ask you, do you want to go to the hospital?
00:55:25
Speaker
They'll ask you like, oh, is there any damage?
00:55:28
Speaker
And if there's nothing like that, they're going to be like, okay.
00:55:30
Speaker
And then leave.
00:55:31
Speaker
Like, yeah.
00:55:32
Speaker
I mean, the thing is, I was told this by police officers and the reason why they do this in the UK is because recently the police has come under a lot of scrutiny.
00:55:41
Speaker
So, you know, let's say this happened between two normal people and the situation escalated.
00:55:47
Speaker
The first thing people will say is, why didn't the police do anything after the first slap?
00:55:50
Speaker
So that's the reason why they said they would, you know, look to arrest, because if the situation then gets worse, people then look at them and say, why didn't you do anything?
00:55:59
Speaker
Okay, I have a funny story for you.
00:56:00
Speaker
I want to that's related to what you just said.
00:56:02
Speaker
So I don't want to dox myself.
00:56:03
Speaker
So I'm going to try to not say too many details of this story.
00:56:06
Speaker
But basically, my family has been feuding with another family in this small farming town going back like generations.
00:56:13
Speaker
Like this feud goes back to my grandparents time.
00:56:16
Speaker
Okay, so you're like the Hatfields and McCoys.
00:56:19
Speaker
uh like not really but kind of but basically it goes back like decades and every time they call the police or tried to and the reason why people have to use their own like sort of like vigilante justice and maybe this explains why my morals are the way that they are is because of how fucking useless the police are like in a recent incident that the neighbors so these are two farming families they have like
00:56:43
Speaker
They share a border.
00:56:45
Speaker
So they're like right next to each other.
00:56:46
Speaker
And so the neighbors of my relatives, there's security footage of them going onto the farm and stealing a bunch of their shit, like literally showing up with a forklift, lifting a shed off of the ground and then leaving with it.
00:57:00
Speaker
The shed was on their property.
00:57:02
Speaker
And then my relatives called the police.
00:57:04
Speaker
They had the security footage of them stealing a whole fucking shed with all the equipment in it and everything.
00:57:09
Speaker
And the shed was still curfew.
00:57:11
Speaker
currently on their land.
00:57:12
Speaker
They have the receipts for the fact that they own the equipment in there and the police still didn't do anything.
00:57:17
Speaker
They were like, this is a civil matter.
00:57:19
Speaker
You can sue each other.
00:57:20
Speaker
And they were like, but this is literal theft.
00:57:22
Speaker
We have a video of this happening.
00:57:23
Speaker
They came onto our property.
00:57:24
Speaker
They stole a bunch of our shit.
00:57:26
Speaker
The police were like, this is a civil matter.
00:57:27
Speaker
You know, you can sue them in court kind of thing.
00:57:29
Speaker
And so that's kind of like where it is.
00:57:31
Speaker
Right.
00:57:31
Speaker
And so legally incorrect, but yeah.
00:57:35
Speaker
Less work for them though.
00:57:36
Speaker
So always just remember that like they're going to take the path of least resistance.
00:57:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:57:41
Speaker
Not even least resistance, just the least work, right?
00:57:44
Speaker
The police are, understand the police are fundamentally fucking lazy, okay?
00:57:47
Speaker
And they'll be like, oh, this is for you to sort out with each other.
00:57:50
Speaker
But the thing is, the courts are also, in that area, the courts are also sort of, like, biased a little bit against my family.
00:57:56
Speaker
Because, again, there's, like, one judge.
00:57:57
Speaker
And, like, they all fucking know each other, right?
00:58:00
Speaker
So, I won't say what happened, but let's just say my family had to take matters into their own hands.
00:58:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:06
Speaker
Another case, here's actually what started the whole feud.
00:58:09
Speaker
Well, and to be fair, a lot of people in the comments were talking about, because it's very similar in the South, right?
00:58:14
Speaker
Like in the United States, in places that are more rural, that having to, one, that's why they have such a large gun culture, but also like not necessarily being able to rely on the justice system or the police when it comes to petty crimes because they just don't have the bandwidth or desire.
00:58:27
Speaker
My relatives made a whole folder with like, you know, and they brought like an SD card with like the security footage, everything.
00:58:34
Speaker
They had like receipts,
00:58:36
Speaker
everything to prove that this would be a slam dunk case if they decided to prosecute, and they just fucking didn't.
00:58:42
Speaker
They just didn't want to, right?
00:58:44
Speaker
And so, again, maybe this is why my morality is, why I'm pro-vigilante justice, is because as much as we say, oh, you know, private citizens shouldn't take matters in their own hands, we live in a country with the rule of law, let the
00:58:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:59:15
Speaker
I mean, it's a good story.
00:59:16
Speaker
I mean, it's essentially kind of what I'm saying is that people overblowing that slap as if it's like, first of all, akin to murder or like that it's indicative that Will is some violent maniac or that Will should be prosecuted and put in jail for it are kind of delusional to me.
00:59:34
Speaker
I feel like that was way, way, way overblown for one, what happened.
00:59:38
Speaker
Yes, granted, people had to see it, but everyone acting like they were personally... Like you have to be a white person...
00:59:44
Speaker
living in a city to think that that deserves prosecution.
00:59:47
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:47
Speaker
Like that.
00:59:48
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:59:49
Speaker
That's what it feels like.
00:59:50
Speaker
It feels like it's really out of touch, really out of touch, privileged, uh, carceral type Hollywood white people like coming down on Will Smith as if this is the most insane, violent
Hollywood's Double Standards
01:00:03
Speaker
thing they've ever seen.
01:00:03
Speaker
And maybe it is for them.
01:00:05
Speaker
Maybe that is the worst thing that's happened for them.
01:00:07
Speaker
Like... Yeah.
01:00:08
Speaker
But it's not.
01:00:09
Speaker
There have been, like, there have been more horrific people like Roman Polanski at the Oscars.
01:00:14
Speaker
Oh my god, that's the other thing, is like...
01:00:17
Speaker
The hypocrisy of that is deafening.
01:00:19
Speaker
Little fucking rapists and pedophiles in the ranks of the Academy that are celebrated, and they're choosing to come down on Will Smith for a, in my opinion, very justified slap?
01:00:29
Speaker
Come on.
01:00:30
Speaker
I mean, I still don't agree with what Will Smith said, but to be honest, like I said at the beginning of the episode, everything I've heard about Will Smith and Jada's relationship has been against my will.
01:00:39
Speaker
And quite frankly, I think it sounds like an awful relationship to be in.
01:00:43
Speaker
I don't rate them at all.
01:00:45
Speaker
And I'd just rather not just hear about it all the
Future Discussions on Black Women's Hair Politics
01:00:48
Speaker
time.
01:00:48
Speaker
Even her alopecia, I didn't actually know she had it.
01:00:50
Speaker
And she rocks the bold look really, really well.
01:00:52
Speaker
And that's definitely perhaps a future episode about around the politics of black women's hair, because I can definitely see why, especially black women felt the slap was justified.
01:01:02
Speaker
But that's a whole other episode.
01:01:03
Speaker
But yeah, Will Smith and Jade as a couple, I just can't bring myself to care about them personally.
01:01:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's true.
01:01:09
Speaker
I think their relationship is kind of weird, but it's not really my place to judge.
01:01:12
Speaker
But it seems very, very dysfunctional.
01:01:15
Speaker
Ultimately, I think I'm just not here for that.
01:01:17
Speaker
So I think it was fine.
01:01:19
Speaker
And then she started talking about their difficulties.
01:01:22
Speaker
And then, you know, how sometimes in like just Twitter or people get a hold of a narrative, they start to create like a toxic environment.
01:01:29
Speaker
It's obviously, I think, the open relationship and them almost getting divorced.
01:01:32
Speaker
was part of it.
01:01:33
Speaker
But at the same time, it seems like when they were talking about these things, they were talking about them in the past tense that they had somehow like worked out an agreement and they seem more or less cool with each other.
01:01:42
Speaker
Right.
01:01:44
Speaker
And clearly he still loves his wife enough to be slapping people over it.
01:01:47
Speaker
Right.
01:01:47
Speaker
And I think that's cute.
01:01:48
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:49
Speaker
To me, I feel like the narrative has just gotten out of control and the narrative got out of hand.
01:01:54
Speaker
And part of it is because of people, part of it I think is because of sexism and people just not liking Jada and not liking the fact that she exercised her right to be with someone else in a relationship that was essentially over.
01:02:07
Speaker
Them trying to make her into this succubus, et cetera, trying to cuck Will repeatedly because of him not being someone like Tupac.
01:02:14
Speaker
So a lot of this has to do with
01:02:16
Speaker
I think sexist politics, why their relationship and the dynamics of it have like become so contentious with everybody.
01:02:22
Speaker
Because again, I feel like, yeah, like you said in the beginning of the episode, they'll let like men cheat all the time.
01:02:28
Speaker
People seem to be ignoring the fact that Will Smith also had girlfriends and also was like really publicly slobbering all over some of his co-stars on the red carpet to the point where I do remember tabloid media even asking like Jada if she was cool with it.
01:02:41
Speaker
And she was just like, yeah, they're just friends or something like that.
01:02:43
Speaker
But like, you know,
01:02:44
Speaker
There's sexism revolving
Public Slap and Societal Divides
01:02:46
Speaker
around that.
01:02:46
Speaker
And then you put in something as public as that slap in a public venue at a really uptight, you know, formal ceremony.
01:02:52
Speaker
Posh.
01:02:53
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:54
Speaker
And then you add racial politics into it.
01:02:57
Speaker
And then you add like the weird Hollywood posturing to be on the morally correct side and
01:03:02
Speaker
And now you have this big ass mess where everyone's trying to pull their own take from it, make themselves into the victim, overblow everything that happened.
01:03:10
Speaker
And you can see the divide both racially, but now also class, like you said, Lilith, because of the fact that I feel like people who live in places where that probably wouldn't even, like they wouldn't even call the cops over that.
01:03:20
Speaker
So when people are like, he should have been snatched off the stage and immediately put in prison.
01:03:25
Speaker
Yeah, no.
01:03:26
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:26
Speaker
Way worse shit happens in rural areas.
01:03:28
Speaker
And then other people being sensitive to the optics of putting a black man in handcuffs at the Oscars, right?
01:03:33
Speaker
Like that's also the optics of that.
01:03:35
Speaker
Like there's so many places of that.
01:03:37
Speaker
So you're seeing like a class divide, a race divide, and then a gender divide, right?
01:03:41
Speaker
The people that are like, Will Smith's a cuck and his, I couldn't let my wife sleep with somebody else and be with them.
01:03:46
Speaker
And that's also like red pill Twitter, you know, whatever, twisting the knife and trying to make this situation worse.
01:03:53
Speaker
So I don't know.
01:03:54
Speaker
I guess I can kind of see how,
01:03:56
Speaker
the splits have come down because it's hit all of the like cultural touch points between race, class and sex.
01:04:03
Speaker
But the question is then like, isn't just like these people, right?
01:04:07
Speaker
Relationship.
01:04:08
Speaker
And like, why is everyone making it once again about themselves?
01:04:11
Speaker
So I
Debates on Male Violence and Morality
01:04:12
Speaker
don't know.
01:04:12
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:13
Speaker
Just to wrap up, can I just have a couple of minutes to talk about honor-based violence?
01:04:17
Speaker
Sure.
01:04:17
Speaker
Sure.
01:04:18
Speaker
Because I've been dying to talk about that.
01:04:20
Speaker
Okay.
01:04:21
Speaker
So, okay.
01:04:22
Speaker
One of the responses criticizing me on Twitter was like, I said, like, oh, I think it would be so hot if my man defended my honor like that.
01:04:29
Speaker
And then a bunch of comments were saying like, oh, so you think that honor-based violence is okay?
01:04:34
Speaker
Like, this is the same logic as, you know, men who throw acid in women's faces because she dishonored him or whatever.
01:04:40
Speaker
And I'm like, first of all, no, it's not the same.
01:04:42
Speaker
The problem with honor-based violence under patriarchy, in my opinion, is the fact that men will do violence against women because women do something that he sees as an affront on his honor, right?
01:04:55
Speaker
And so I think that a man fighting another man because the other man dishonored his woman is
01:05:02
Speaker
is less is not as bad.
01:05:03
Speaker
It's a totally different moral thing to me.
01:05:05
Speaker
I think that like, I only really have a problem with male violence against women, like male on male violence.
01:05:10
Speaker
I'm kind of like, unless it's like a child or a disabled person or something like that.
01:05:14
Speaker
Obviously that's not okay.
01:05:16
Speaker
That's abuse.
01:05:16
Speaker
But like,
01:05:17
Speaker
This sort of like schism on Radfem Twitter where like normal Radfems think we must eradicate male violence.
01:05:23
Speaker
And then there's the black pillars who think that male violence is like biological, impossible to overcome, and that male violence can never be eradicated, and that the only solution is for women to separate from men.
01:05:33
Speaker
I sort of agree with both stances in a weird way, where I think that, I do think that men are biologically more violent than women.
01:05:40
Speaker
That's just true in like all species.
01:05:42
Speaker
The females are capable of violence as well, but because of testosterone and so on, like males are more violent than females in basically every species on earth.
01:05:50
Speaker
So I think it's a little bit unrealistic to eradicate male violence in humans.
01:05:55
Speaker
And they're more likely to be aggressors, right?
01:05:57
Speaker
They're more likely to be aggressors, exactly.
01:05:59
Speaker
Female animals will use violence to defend their offspring, especially like I saw a chicken kill and eat a snake because it was attacking her chicks.
01:06:07
Speaker
I've seen female horses, for example, stomp on coyotes because they were affecting their... Or the coyote or whatever was threatening her babies.
01:06:14
Speaker
So yeah, male animals are much more likely to be aggressors towards both females and males of their own species and other species.
01:06:21
Speaker
And so that's why I think that...
01:06:22
Speaker
a little bit unrealistic to totally eradicate male violence i think we need to redirect male violence in a more pro-female way so i think that for example rapists pedophiles abusers and by the way we're not talking about chris rock anymore that's like that topic of conversation is long gone i'm just saying that like the solution to male violence is more male violence but we need to direct the male violence towards violent men or men who are violent towards women right i
01:06:47
Speaker
I see this all the time, like men being like, oh, men can't be men anymore.
01:06:51
Speaker
Oh, we have to like suppress our like natural violent tendencies.
01:06:54
Speaker
And like, we need to be able to kill other men for our mental health, kind of thing.
01:06:58
Speaker
And I'm like, okay, here's my solution to this is that pedophiles, rapists, men who kill women, men who kill children, all of those like really shitty guys who are destructive to society.
01:07:08
Speaker
Those are morally justifiable targets of male violence, in my opinion.
01:07:13
Speaker
You even see this like when, for example, a man like kills a pedophile that like molested his kid or whatever, right?
01:07:18
Speaker
You know, he's celebrated as like a hero.
01:07:20
Speaker
Oh, free him.
01:07:21
Speaker
He doesn't deserve to go to jail, that kind of stuff.
01:07:23
Speaker
Whereas when a woman kills a man who raped her, it's seen as like, oh, she's horrible.
01:07:27
Speaker
Like she just, you know, she's lying.
01:07:29
Speaker
Like she's seen as this like evil, like succubus type person, right?
01:07:32
Speaker
Although that's really unfair and that's based in misogyny.
01:07:35
Speaker
I still think that like men are valuable, like expendable soldiers in the fight against people.
01:07:40
Speaker
male violence, basically.
01:07:42
Speaker
I think that like, if we let men kill pedophiles and say like, oh, you can be a hero if you kill pedophiles, if you kill rapists and stuff, I think men would go for that.
01:07:50
Speaker
Yeah, it's like redirecting male violence.
01:07:52
Speaker
And then a lot of women feel like men protecting them is a privilege.
01:07:57
Speaker
And that's kind of the conversation that was happening on Black Twitter too, that like,
01:08:01
Speaker
Black women haven't historically been able to enjoy chivalry, right?
01:08:05
Speaker
Or the idea of chivalry that a man would stand up for them against other aggressors because of the legacy of slavery.
01:08:11
Speaker
So there's some people that would agree with you.
01:08:13
Speaker
I mean, I think it's tough because like the question is like, if you start to allow male violence, how do you keep women in control of that situation and keep them listening to us?
01:08:21
Speaker
I think by social praise and social condemnation is very powerful.
01:08:25
Speaker
There's even literal abusers, for example, like men actually physically beat their wives.
01:08:30
Speaker
They do that behind closed doors because they know that it's not socially acceptable.
01:08:35
Speaker
And they'll try to hide it.
01:08:36
Speaker
You know, if a woman shows up to work with a black eye, she'll be like, oh, I fell down the stairs or something like that.
01:08:40
Speaker
Right.
01:08:40
Speaker
So we already live in a cultural context where men hitting women isn't socially acceptable.
01:08:45
Speaker
But then, you know, there's like, I mean, that's in the West.
01:08:48
Speaker
In other cultures, like African cultures, that's definitely absolutely not the case.
01:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, I was just about to say, like, there are certain cultures where, oh, if a woman is, like, disobedient to her man, that's, again, relating it back to, like, honor-based killing.
01:08:59
Speaker
This is where I feel like I get the, like, now you've explained it more, because I initially disagreed on Twitter.
01:09:03
Speaker
I get where you're coming from, but this could actually make things a whole lot worse for women in societies where it's acceptable to abuse your wife.
01:09:12
Speaker
And there are many, many of them.
01:09:13
Speaker
Openly abuse your wife.
01:09:15
Speaker
So that's going to be much more difficult because, again, the social context is different.
01:09:18
Speaker
So that's a much more uphill battle.
01:09:21
Speaker
Whereas I think like in the West, for example, where male violence against women is more or less socially condemned, there's a lot of like violent like rape myths like, oh, you know, if she deserved it, then she deserves violence.
01:09:30
Speaker
That kind of stuff.
01:09:31
Speaker
Even in the West, there is that the case.
01:09:33
Speaker
But there are certain male violence perpetrators.
01:09:36
Speaker
where it is pretty black and white, like full-on rapists, pedophiles, men who kill women, that kind of stuff.
01:09:42
Speaker
But even in other cultures, like if a woman is raped in some part of the world, she gets stoned to death.
01:09:48
Speaker
It's going to be more difficult to shift in these cultures, but I think that that's what needs to happen, is we need to change the social norms around male violence.
01:09:54
Speaker
Instead of trying to eradicate or suppress male violence, we need to change the social norms around when it is acceptable to use.
01:10:00
Speaker
And I think that we need to pull an Una reverse card on rapists, basically.
01:10:04
Speaker
That's my stance.
01:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, perhaps this could be like a topic for a different episode because I think it's a really interesting proposal.
01:10:11
Speaker
But it's just how can we make it so that it doesn't end up worse for women?
01:10:14
Speaker
Because my argument was, is that the law of male violence or like my law of male violence, so that it tends to go to the weakest person.
01:10:22
Speaker
And if a man can't take out his aggression on other men for whatever reason, you know, women will end up being collateral damage.
01:10:29
Speaker
And we see this in things like the slave, you know, when the black slave, when the black male slaves were abused, sexually abused and physically abused by the slave masters, you know, those slaves and went and abused black women.
01:10:39
Speaker
So black women actually getting it on two fronts, both from the white slave masters and the black slaves as well, because black men didn't have an outlet to let out their aggression or
01:10:48
Speaker
I don't know.
01:10:49
Speaker
Perhaps it could work in like the West.
01:10:51
Speaker
I'd be interested to see how that works.
01:10:52
Speaker
But in other countries around the world, I don't know.
01:10:55
Speaker
I'm not sure.
01:10:56
Speaker
I mean, that's tough because it's in the context of slavery, right?
01:10:59
Speaker
Whereas like, again, that's what I mean about we need to change the social norms around when violence is acceptable.
01:11:04
Speaker
Because like when Haiti had their whole independence movement, didn't they go out and like kill a bunch of slave masters?
01:11:09
Speaker
That's an acceptable form of male violence to me.
01:11:11
Speaker
Okay.
01:11:12
Speaker
Basically, I think we need to change the social norms such that a man using violence against a man who is a shitty person who deserves it or using violence against your oppressors, because I also subscribe to the liberation comes from the barrel of a gun moral philosophy.
01:11:25
Speaker
We need to change the norms such that punching down is seen as repugnant and the only acceptable forms of violence is punching up.
01:11:33
Speaker
You know what I mean?
01:11:34
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:34
Speaker
Yeah.
01:11:34
Speaker
It's just how we do that without women becoming collateral damage.
01:11:38
Speaker
That's the question that I have, because I'm not convinced that even if we do do that, that women still won't be caught up, you know, in it somehow.
01:11:45
Speaker
Because women just don't have, you know, as of yet, the social power or capital to enforce consequences for men who continue to punch down.
01:11:53
Speaker
Because a lot of men will continue to punch down.
01:11:55
Speaker
And I think they deserve harsh social punishment.
01:11:58
Speaker
Like men who punch down like that, I basically want to get to a point where men like Brock Turner, for example, or men who are violent to women, I want them to be begging for a longer jail sentence because they know that what's waiting for them when they get out is much more terrifying than what's in actual prison.
01:12:12
Speaker
I'm not kidding.
01:12:12
Speaker
It's more about the psychological impact on the male population.
01:12:16
Speaker
You know how like there used to be all these fairy tales about like Baba Yaga or even like my namesake Lilith is like a demon who would go out and like kill men who had boners at night or some shit.
01:12:26
Speaker
Right.
01:12:26
Speaker
Like so we used to have all these myths around, you know, people doing shitty moral things and then getting eaten by a demon or something like that.
01:12:34
Speaker
I think we need to perpetuate almost like a sort of mythology around, like, if you as a man go out and hit a woman or kill a woman or do shitty things to women, you deserve to get snatched up by a demon or a vigilante group of female assassins.
01:12:46
Speaker
But yeah, it's more about, like, a deterrent.
01:12:48
Speaker
Like, I want...
01:12:49
Speaker
men who are violent to women to fear consequences.
01:12:51
Speaker
And women, you know, we're a lot less violent than men.
01:12:53
Speaker
I don't think women are incapable of violence.
01:12:55
Speaker
It's just that the consequences for us are much higher.
01:12:58
Speaker
And that's why I think men should be the ones to take the fall.
01:13:00
Speaker
Because men who kill rapists, men who kill pedophiles, and so on, they're celebrated as heroes.
01:13:04
Speaker
Women who do the same thing are harshly punished.
01:13:06
Speaker
And I think that women shouldn't have to face those kinds of consequences.
01:13:09
Speaker
I would much rather men either face those consequences or take that kind of risk.
01:13:13
Speaker
But
01:13:13
Speaker
Again, like reputational damage.
01:13:15
Speaker
Women have much more power to enforce social consequences, particularly in the West by like, you know, social exclusion, reputational damage, joining forces other women to, you know, get men fired, that kind of stuff.
01:13:25
Speaker
Right.
01:13:25
Speaker
So I think that actually we're the social and political and like the current cultural conditions, I feel are very favorable to this sort of social and moral shift.
01:13:35
Speaker
But we'll have to wait and see.
01:13:36
Speaker
Sorry, this is a long, long tangent.
01:13:38
Speaker
But yeah.
01:13:40
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, this is a good discussion.
01:13:41
Speaker
So I don't know.
01:13:42
Speaker
Let us know what you guys think on this episode about the two positions that Savannah and Lilith have presented about when and where to use male violence to defend women and like the merits of that.
01:13:53
Speaker
And if you have any comments on any other splits in this particular topic along the lines of sex, race, and class, because I also think that's what's influencing everyone's perception and why this has probably become really weirdly contentious between a bunch of groups that maybe it shouldn't be.
01:14:10
Speaker
So
Closing and Social Media Links
01:14:11
Speaker
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01:14:12
Speaker
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01:14:18
Speaker
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01:14:20
Speaker
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01:14:22
Speaker
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01:14:31
Speaker
Thanks for listening, Queens.
01:14:32
Speaker
And for all you scrotes out there, watch your back.
01:14:35
Speaker
talk shit get hit yeah wash your fucking back die mad see you next week