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World (Nation's) League Discussion
31 Plays7 years ago
We felt that this discussion on the recently announced and somewhat fumbled, Nations League, deserved it's own mini-episode, so here it is. Hear our thoughts on the pros the cons, all the holes that still exist with it and what World Rugby needs to do to make this better than it initially looked. This is actually one of our best debates to date so we hope you enjoy. Please send us your thoughts, feed back and questions to fantasyrugbypodcast@gmail.com. Kick back and enjoy this little episode.
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Music by Royalty Free Music provided by http://www.soundotcom.com
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Transcript
Introduction to the Issue
00:00:08
Speaker
Alright, let's get to the elephant in the room first. It's a goddamn fat one too. It is, that's a big fucking elephant. Well, I mean, the whole world. You get one bite at a time. Yeah, pretty much.
00:00:24
Speaker
I was trying to take my own bites, my own bites last week plus. Absolutely.
Criticism of Brett Gosper
00:00:29
Speaker
Jared's been, if you should follow my friend Jared on Twitter, you'll see that he's been all over Brett Gosper. Yes. For the past week, and rightly so.
World Rugby's New Plan Announcement
00:00:39
Speaker
And it was interesting today, we actually had, this is the first time we've had a text message conversation that I can remember where I said, I think this conversation is
00:00:46
Speaker
too long that's probably true like we can't we can't do this it's a very it's a very uh rare instance where that that is the case and this is it and i figured we'd have the uh the opportunity today especially and i'm i'm kind of glad that we had the opportunity where we got delayed from yesterday to today because the details actually it wasn't just delete here's what it might be here's what they're thinking it was actually
00:01:11
Speaker
world rugby saying this is what we want to do right and it was slightly different from what we'd heard in the leak with with uh significant differences certainly around uh the pacific island nations um but but overall yeah it's about the same um yeah and it's it's this is one of the few times where we have legitimately different opinions on on what's happening i don't think they're as different as you as you think i think there's a middle ground in here um
Critique of World Rugby's Response
00:01:42
Speaker
So I think the first and biggest problem I have with this, this thing at the moment is this, the video and the, and the, the, the posts or the statement or whatever is reactionary. It's not, it's not preventive. Not only is it reactionary, it's a week later reactionary. So that's probably like world rugby. Get off your ass. Where you been?
00:02:08
Speaker
You know, they finally made a statement. What monday? Oh, we need to have an emergency meeting. Oh really you think you're just coming to this conclusion Are you kidding me? And that's I think the the biggest problem around it is their Their reaction rather than their actual plan Yeah, because it's like people saw the the leak and and and what it really meant and it rightly pissed people off um, yeah and
00:02:35
Speaker
But the reality of it is much softer than what it was initially supposed to be for the leak. So I think people are more upset. It's like you had all this time to correct what it was. And I'm certain you think it, because I don't think it, too.
00:02:56
Speaker
That probably means that that the leak was what they were expecting to do and they realized oh fuck we really shut the bed on this one, so Fair play to them to get it back into you know forget back in and I'm guessing the leak at this point was tactical to say okay We'll float this to see what maybe it's a possibility Won't roll it out
Optimism for Rugby's Future
00:03:16
Speaker
But either way, I think it's time to take a step back, at least from, yeah, they fucked up a lot, mostly through just being silent. Ultimately, I think this is a really good idea that could be very good for the sport in the long term.
00:03:34
Speaker
it is it's not it's not a bad idea i'm not i've not said it's a bad idea what i'm saying is the the the question the the number of questions that are on unanswered with it the um the there's still some general plans that i'm like i don't know about this um apparently there's other initiatives that this is getting in the way of and there's still
00:03:58
Speaker
For me, it's two things that have come to the forefront. Pacific nations is hopefully solved. Bottom line, if there's no Pacific nations and there's no way of getting them in, one of them needs to start in this thing, first of all. We should not begin it after, especially after the last weekend.
Including Pacific Nations in Rugby Plans
00:04:13
Speaker
Different story for a different day. Different story for a different day.
00:04:17
Speaker
Yeah, US shouldn't be in it. It should definitely be Fiji for sure. Japan, probably after their World Cup performance is probably worth putting them in there. And have a pathway. And we know it's the Six Nations countries that are causing the problem because they don't have relegation promotion in their competition. Most of those leagues, pro 14 doesn't, Premiership's trying to get rid of it. Sounds like, well that's a different topic.
00:04:45
Speaker
France does, but there's only two divisions. And obviously there's concern for countries like Italy that think, oh man, we might get beat by some of these tier two teams, which is probably gonna happen. So deal with it. But that's right, deal with it. Suck it up. You're gonna have to deal with it. Well, not we, but people, rugby people have talked about, oh, should Italy, does Italy really still deserve to be in six nations? I guess we'll find out. And we'll find
Travel Demands Concerns
00:05:11
Speaker
out.
00:05:11
Speaker
So the two main issues are player welfare. And we're talking about every team in this competition is supposed to be 12 teams. And you're talking about a ton of travel here. There is no way you can take care of these guys with the amount of travel that you are proposing right now.
00:05:30
Speaker
I mean, yeah, they're they're traveling once every at least once every two months because I would assume that they would probably get a home match in a way match and probably work it that way. They're the one because they're talking about using the July windows and the November windows as the time to play. So I don't know how you're going to schedule it.
00:05:47
Speaker
That just sounds like such a nightmare. It's tougher. It's it's this is one of those um for for american sports It's it's east coast versus west coast kind of things where but in this case It's northern hemisphere versus southern hemisphere because the northern hemisphere teams They don't they have to travel what?
00:06:04
Speaker
a couple hundred miles really that at the the farthest uh to to play the six nations um You know, it's because obviously the us isn't involved in this Um, but the southern hemisphere teams they that's that's they're all spread out all over like all around the globe on the southern hemisphere Yeah, so that does make it insanely difficult very um and a lot of strain So I i'm not sure how they're going to solve that um
00:06:33
Speaker
But at the same time, if this sport's going to get better, it needs a higher profile competition like this more often, because we, you know, we might get to see a handful of Northern Hemisphere teams play Southern Hemisphere teams every, I mean, they do that cross play, but. Yep.
00:06:54
Speaker
You know, let's see it more often. Let's and let's get some of these tier two teams Involved show them what it what it what it means to play that top level I mean u.s. Has been fortunate lately. We can as far as who we get to play So we've gotten to play against the new zealands and the irelands and hey scotland didn't meet scotland. Yeah That was a good day but
00:07:18
Speaker
That's you know, that that's rare for a tier two country to play that many. It is the tier one nation. Right. And we just played and we played Ireland this past fall, too, as well. And gets nodded, but still. Yes. At least at least you get a chance at it. And so doesn't really lead into it too well. But the second issue I have is I don't understand how this doesn't diminish the World Cup.
Impact on World Cup Significance
00:07:44
Speaker
And they tried to answer that by saying, oh, we're going to expand the World Cup. OK, well, that screams money grab. Are you kidding me? You're telling me that a team like Spain or Belgium that could possibly get into the World Cup is going to be is going to be able to put on a good performance to the point where the fans go, why the freak did we just pay money to watch this and or to go to it? OK, so let's answer. I'm going to answer two of those separately. The first is.
00:08:12
Speaker
I Diminished the World Cup I'm I'm extremely ambivalent on that Because I don't think that's I think that's Kind of a knee-jerk reaction. I think it's a little harsh We should want to see high-level international competition as often as possible we want to see the best teams play and
00:08:39
Speaker
As often as possible. I don't think it would diminish the the World Cup any Any more than you know, like the Pan Am Games diminished the Olympics or something like that. Like there's Any granted it's a little bit more than more involved in that but each sport that's in the Olympics usually has their own world championships You know, you see professional skiing that doesn't diminish nobody nobody nobody pays attention to the world championships exactly, but Is somebody gonna pay attention to this?
00:09:07
Speaker
I feel rugby fans will because it's fucking rugby right the people who pay attention to the sport will love it Just as much But aren't we trying to get outside the just that those people isn't that part of the point?
00:09:20
Speaker
That's part of the point and the only way that's going to happen is to bring in these tier two countries and make give them a higher profile because so you said like a Nation like Spain are the fans going to be happy going to the World Cup and seeing their team? Probably I I would love it But if my team I would much rather go because right they get to go to the World Cup if Spain's not not gonna know are they gonna pay attention and
00:09:43
Speaker
Yeah, but how cool would it be for fans of Spain to be able to watch it and have a little bit of pride that, hey, yeah, my team's not ready to really compete in it, but we're there. And you don't get to compete in it until you're there. So you need to get that foot in the door. My problem with World Rugby in general is that there's tier one and tier two.
00:10:07
Speaker
that the whole thing shouldn't exist, theoretically. So the only way to get rid of it is to do things like this.
Positive Direction for Rugby
00:10:16
Speaker
So I think in the long run, rugby's moving in the right direction. And let's, again, we have to take the long view as professional rugby is really only a couple decades old.
00:10:29
Speaker
Yes, so all this stuff and yeah, there's there's been a lot of some of these competitions for for a long time but it's really only gaining high profile outside of hardcore rugby fans and really in the minds of Americans for you know, first and foremost It's it's only starting to get profile right and it's not gonna maintain You're not gonna make you're not gonna grow your profile while you do the same things you've been doing
00:10:53
Speaker
That's in that that you're not wrong about that There's a lot of things that there's certain changes that need to come in order to see positive results sometimes and in a lot of ways and this stuff that's going on besides this elsewhere that we need to talk about um plus have you seen the uh The salary caps in the nfl as compared to Yeah, the premiership. Yeah, I understand. Oh, I understand if they can get the us involved You hope we hope but if we can get the us uh
00:11:23
Speaker
Actually like competitive and then get corporate sponsorship and TV rights. Yeah real TV rights That's gonna that's gonna make the game so much better you have that much more money coming in and And that's gonna make a difference and and that's really the one missing component, right? Because if we can spread that money around you make it a little bit like the NFL where everybody gets a piece not just yeah the Eagles and
00:11:49
Speaker
Right that's gonna help those those Pacific island nations It's gonna help the other tier two nations to get an influx of casually and yeah Well that that was the big thing like these guys need the help that they can get so that's why When they initially announced that it would be no promotional relegation for 10 years and and the specific nations weren't gonna be interested That was or involved. I like that's a little that was the one big thing we were talking about like no rotate it the most like yeah, I
00:12:12
Speaker
the very least say okay us is in it for these this year or two and then canada gets a shot and then somebody else somebody else needs in there and then you sort out who who deserves it and who needs to earn earn their way back in right and you know and just with this final thought i
Mismatched Games Concerns
00:12:30
Speaker
I'm gonna have a hard time driving, getting myself up for watching a Spain and England game where England rents Spain 80 to nothing. And it's unfortunate, I think that's a product that's unfortunate to have to pay for.
00:12:49
Speaker
So and and they already have it now. So I just don't see why we would want it more and that's my I guess That's my one problem with the world cup expansion. Yeah. Well at the same time, you know, I remember one one I don't know when it was a couple years ago getting on a plane long plane ride for work and landing and checking, you know as soon as I turn my phone on have a text message from you saying
00:13:11
Speaker
Japan beat with South Africa and being like wait a minute that should have been an 80 to nothing game So right, you know what what you know, what could be an 80 to nothing game? Maybe and maybe it will be in the next World Cup or whatever they started
00:13:26
Speaker
Japan have had their own league i've actually been surprised that they i'm actually surprised it took them this long That long to 2015 to have some sort of significant win Yeah somewhere on in the on the world stage. So i'm it was really cool. That was at the world cup and even look at the super rugby where you have now, uh The the haguares and the sunwolves. Yep, and That's good for those two nations because it used
Argentina's Rugby Development
00:13:52
Speaker
to be argent. Argentina us was
00:13:54
Speaker
Not that no that disparate and now you know Argentina's second sides crush in the US. Yep a little bit of that exposure To really understand what it takes to compete at that level, right? Yeah, so I'm not that it's it's a good thing A lot of things need to be hammered out. I wish world rugby had reacted better to it I still think Brett Cross was a liar until I see that frickin research. He's a
00:14:20
Speaker
It sounds like he's an embattled CEO for a long time anyway, so this is just kind of like the tip of the iceberg. Different story for a different day. I will look forward to it if they get the issues hammered out. That's all I say. I'm choosing to look at this with optimistic glasses on and thinking that they'll figure something out that that's right.
00:14:43
Speaker
Right, yeah. It's not USA Rugby running it, so I think they might actually make a good decision. God, yeah, I mean, not a long way to go from it.