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Monster Mash Redux
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We're revisiting Monster Romance (read about the first time we did so here)!
Buddy reads:
Ready for Her Yeti by Neva Post
Mail-Order Minotaur by Lilith Stone
Full show notes at smutreport.com/podcast
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Host Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
I... Crap, guys. I forgot to introduce us. I'm Erin. And I'm Holly. And I'm Ingrid. Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-smart report! Hello, and welcome to the latest edition of the Smart Report podcast.
Current State of Monster Romance
00:00:15
Speaker
This month, we're talking about the current state of monster romance in Romancelandia. In the world. In the world. Yeah.
00:00:26
Speaker
In life. So back 2021, we had really our first smash down, right? Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So it was a monster mash smash down where we read eight monster books paired them up and discussed week by week what we were talking about.
Book Selections for Discussion
00:00:44
Speaker
Eight books, guys.
00:00:45
Speaker
Yeah. And that was only the first time we did it. Yeah. And i love it. And should again. Just kidding. we We thought maybe we'd revisit those monsters. Not those monsters. Some new monsters and see what's going on with our monsters. We did not read eight books
Why 'Maneater' by Emily Antoinette?
00:01:00
Speaker
this time, though. This time we each chose one.
00:01:03
Speaker
So our books for the month were Maneater by Emily Antoinette. Mail Order Minotaur by Lilith Stone and Ready for Her Yeti by Neva Post. So Holly, why don't you tell us about Maneater and why you chose it?
00:01:17
Speaker
Okay, so I chose Maneater by Emily Antoinette. And I originally had chosen ah different book called The Ogre's Bride by Jeanette Clark.
00:01:29
Speaker
And i that one I picked because I went on Amazon and what looked up like monster books published today, basically. and it was one of them and it was like a dollar.
00:01:40
Speaker
So that's why i picked that But then i read about this other book, Man Eater, in a roundup on monster romance reviews. And I was like, oh, this one is actually recommended by somebody who really knows about monster romance.
00:01:53
Speaker
So let's try that instead. And I picked it also because the female main character is the monster and not the male
Erin's Choice: 'Mail Order Minotaur'
00:02:01
Speaker
main character. hu Yeah. and I liked that.
00:02:04
Speaker
You know that I love a dominant woman. you know Yes. do All right. Well, I chose Order Minotaur because I had it on my TBR and I'm not 100% sure why I had it on my TBR. It obviously popped up for me somewhere.
00:02:22
Speaker
And I feel like it was just like, oh, another Minotaur book. Add.
00:02:29
Speaker
Because last time we did the Monster Mash Smashdown, we did read Morning Glory Milking Farm. But we'll get into that. we do have to keep. We'll get into that. What happened before later. But so i it was I think it was just as basic as that. It was on my TBR and it was because I was like, I want to see what another minotaur is all about.
Why 'Ready for Her Yeti'?
00:02:48
Speaker
So that's why. Ingrid, how about you for ready for her Yeti? Well, I did a different thing, which was basically I thought, well, we haven't really done a Yeti. I didn't think. And also I was paying a little bit of homage to my sister Yeah.
00:03:04
Speaker
i was just thinking it might be fun to see more about the yeti business so i came up in a couple of different forums so i figured why not give it a shot but i didn't know anything about it or the author or anything so that's done yeah yeah so we just kind of basically picked whatever yeah yeah And I will say that I did post a recommendation request on Blue Sky and I got
Challenges and Trends in Monster Romance
00:03:27
Speaker
crickets.
00:03:27
Speaker
I got zero. And I think that's kind of indicative about like some of the trends what's going on with monster romance right now as opposed to a in 2021. Yeah.
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah. yeah So let's talk about 2021. Can one of you describe what we were doing in 2021? Yeah. so in twenty So 2021, all of a sudden, ah monster romance was everywhere.
00:03:52
Speaker
Right? It was just like the thing that everybody was just losing their mind about monsters and their crazy genitalia and these romances and that they were that were distinct from previous paranormal romances right that these weren't werewolves they weren't vampires like vampires are monstrous but they're not vampires are not monster romances that all of a sudden we were seeing yetis and ogres and minotaurs and like tentacle monsters yeah and it was like it was a moment and We're like, well, we should see what's going on with this moment and read a bunch of books.
Defining New Elements of Monster Romance
00:04:36
Speaker
So we did. So we did, basically. And it was like, I mean, the focus to define monster, as Holly said, it was we're not talking about vampires and shifters. The focus was on humanoid but non-human right creatures who don't shift. huge like i don't The idea was non-shifting. like They are in their monster form always. Spoiler alert, it was Ingrid's favorite character.
00:05:05
Speaker
Right but i you know I feel like some of it is like in Beauty and the Beast he shifts back into a human at the end and monster romances are for the people who are like but I kind of thought the beast was hotter.
00:05:19
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Like, that's what's going on here. And the humanoid component, it was largely because Amazon, which is the indie publishing powerhouse of moneymaker, you know, if the monster is like bipedal and has human or above human intelligence, they won't take it offline for like bestiality.
Diverse Elements and Authors in Monster Romance
00:05:41
Speaker
Basically. Or, you know, or put it in the erotica dungeon. In the erotica dungeon, yeah. Some of them got put in the erotica dungeon, but. Right, but, you know, I don't know about the dinosaur romances. Where do they fit in? I feel like dinosaur romance was kind of a later thing, but.
00:05:57
Speaker
You know, there's just there's there's the monster lit planet. And then there's there's the asteroids way out in the periphery of the solar system. And I feel like the dinosaur stuff and the four legged ones, they're way out in the asteroid belt. So, yeah, we're sticking on the planet monster.
00:06:19
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, Wet Hot Allosaurus Summer came out in 2020 Lola Faust. by lola faus but you know chuck tingle did it first and maybe better and that is why and that is why shout out chuck tingle got his own little moment when we did jingle jingle here's chuck tingle it's true that was that was another whole thing that was delightful know But Chuck Tingle has now hit the big leagues, guys. And like, good for him.
Popularity of Alien Romances
00:06:49
Speaker
Good for him, indeed. You know, literary horror. He is like... On it. On it. Well, Holly mentioned other stuff like vampires and shifters, but we've also got like the alien romance, which is not new. I mean, and I just looked up the the publication date for the first Ice Planet Barbarians book by Ruby Dixon, which is like, you know, if you're in that this space, everybody knows Ice Planet Barbarians. She's the queen, yeah. But like, i'm she's not even the first to be doing alien romance, right?
00:07:18
Speaker
And so that was published back in 2015. So there have long been books about... Not quite humans? Not quite humans with magnificent appendages that are vibrator inspired, I guess.
00:07:36
Speaker
That inspire vibrators? Maybe that's what it is. Both. Yeah, I'm safe. My how the turntables have turned. So yeah, this was, I mean, I think Holly was right. This is just really a moment where everybody, it wasn't just that it was being published. It was that there were a lot of books being published because people were hungry for them.
00:07:57
Speaker
yeah. And that, I see some stuff, but I don't really see the same, like... Right. Hey. Yeah. I mean, so there are definitely still people who are reading monster romance and writing monster romance, but I feel like now it's moved back into, and you know what? There were maybe people reading and writing monster romance in 2018.
Themes Resonating with Millennials
00:08:16
Speaker
It just wasn't the zeitgeist of that time. right Right. And so now monster romance is still around, but it's more of a niche thing that people who are into monster romance are reading not everybody and their mom is reading, right? Like everybody and their mom read Morning Glory Milking Farm. Everybody.
00:08:33
Speaker
I mean, it's funny because I remember thinking that back then that Morning Glory Milking Farm was like really out there. And funnily enough, when I was looking for a book for this podcast,
00:08:45
Speaker
It came up again and people were like, you know, I thought it was crazy, but it's actually a really good story. And because it was kind of like a little thrill to read it back then. And now it's like, this is actually a pretty good example of monster romance.
00:08:58
Speaker
You know? Right. Well, and it's like, I remember when we read it, Aaron was like, this is the most relatable millennial experience I've ever read.
Anticipated Book Summaries
00:09:05
Speaker
i think it still is. About a woman whose job is jacking off minotaurs. Let's be clear. Right?
00:09:10
Speaker
Like... um but it is a lot like it is a very relatable story and like there's the weird minotaur stuff unemployed yeah she's bored trying to make it work yeah yeah and angry saying yeah it's a great example of monster romance but also now it's like uh like that was pretty gentle and tame right it wasn't really it was gentle so sweet yeah so horny but so sweet Yeah.
00:09:39
Speaker
So anyway, that was the lay of the land back then. and so we should talk about the lay of the land right now, but I think we should do our one sentence summaries first and then kind of and dig into these books a little more.
Summary: 'Maneater'
00:09:49
Speaker
Does that sound good?
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah, let's do it. Okay. I'll start with Maneater. Okay. All right, let's do it. So with confidence, Aaron and Maneater, Shane has just moved to a new town and is trying to get his business started and find a coven to hang out with because he's a witch.
00:10:11
Speaker
And the coven that he falls in with happens to be a secret sex coven who summons a succubus. and Right. Yes. Against her will.
00:10:23
Speaker
But he is a good guy, not a nice guy TM, like legit maximum cinnamon roll. Gets her out of that situation and they strike up a little friendship that they both want more of.
00:10:38
Speaker
And it's just cute. All right. Yeah. I don't think I have anything to add. It's just like this cute book about a virgin witch man yeah ah dating a succubus, which definition succubus is a sex demon.
00:10:54
Speaker
A succubus who is a sex worker professionally because that's a good way to get fed. Yeah. So they're just kind of like navigating that and falling in love and having cute feelings and being cute
Summary: 'Mail Order Minotaur'
00:11:06
Speaker
together. Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:07
Speaker
I mean, that is really what it is. i i don't I think I could rephrase it, but I don't know that I would add anything different. Yeah. I enjoyed this one. Shy man stutters a lot. Yeah.
00:11:19
Speaker
He did, but I thought that was done kind of well in terms of like his personality and being like, I don't want to go too far. I never want to go too far. So he kept on holding himself back little... Yeah, himself back.
00:11:30
Speaker
And I thought it was really funny because it's like... It felt like they were both kind of like holding back because they didn't want to scare the other one off. You know what I mean? So like she's trying not to scare him off because she knows he's a virgin and he doesn't know what he's doing. And also she's a succubus. And so she's trying to be like respectful and rein it in because she just wants to be she wants a relationship. She just wants to be loved. And then and he's like, oh, she's so beautiful. And I don't want her to think I only want her for her sex magic.
00:11:55
Speaker
and Yeah, or and I don't want her to think that she owes me because I got her out of this bad situation. right So like they're both overthinking a lot, but in a way that actually was not not terrible.
00:12:07
Speaker
I didn't hate it. It was cute. And i will say that I thought in my head I was picturing him as being like a very small man. And then it turns out that she's like little almost comes up to his height in heels like really tall heels and I was like wait a second because like personality wise he is like a tiny soft fluffy little hamster and she is like ah like a hawk you know what I mean yeah although I think she is bigger than him when she's in her succubus form yeah that makes sense yeah I will say this one does not quite fit the monster brief because she does change she does shift she can be in human form or succubus form mm-hmm
00:12:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's how, yeah. has control over it. All right, all right.
Summary: 'Ready for Her Yeti'
00:12:52
Speaker
One sentence summaries for male-ordered minotaur. So, okay, I'll go first. Ivy has moved to the big city where the monsters live.
00:13:02
Speaker
And she runs tours for humans who want to gawk at the monsters. And in the course of her work, she meets Bryn, who is a minotaur sex worker.
00:13:18
Speaker
And he agrees to teach her about how to be safe in the city, but also they're like obviously fated mates. And there's, it's a very hand, and like heavy handed racism metaphor.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yes.
Current Explicitness in Monster Romance
00:13:37
Speaker
That's my one sentence summary. All right. Make that pretty guys. Yeah. Man, come on, brain, wake up. I will say that I felt like in this one, it was a lot of like, let's pretend that we don't need deep and long term therapy for the many issues that are 100% going to crop up in our relationship. But we'll just we're ignoring that for the sake of the page count.
00:13:59
Speaker
kind of thing all right yeah yeah agreed so how i guess holly did the summary of yeah i the plot and ingrid did the summary of what's going on so the internal stuff which of course i erin with all of i think let's see if i can do together chemistry m Yeah, Bryn are fated mates.
00:14:22
Speaker
Bryn realizes it almost immediately. Ivy, being a human, doesn't really understand the concept of fated mates. And so they're both attracted to each other, but they spend a lot of time being dishonest about their reasons for wanting to be with each other.
00:14:42
Speaker
They use excuses and pretending. And that... continues into certain other relationships. Bryn's family, you know, being the monster family, being the non-snobby family is very welcoming to Ivy, but Ivy's parents being human with this notion, Holly was mentioning the racism,
00:15:02
Speaker
ah you know Ivy's parents have this notion that monsters are terrible dangerous horrible dishonest creatures and so Ivy has to come to terms with addressing her relationship so that's the trauma that Ingrid's talking about and
Character Dynamics in 'Maneater'
00:15:18
Speaker
you know in terms of the sex Ivy's really horny for minotaurs And she never she doesn't understand why. She's like, yeah like I've always been horny for minotaurs. That was one of the things that bothered me because I was like, oh, honey, you do too. No.
00:15:31
Speaker
vietnam I don't know why I'm so attracted to minotaurs. They have a be wild. It's because you read Morning Glory Milking Farm and you want the milk bottle of cum. Yeah. There's this weird kink thing going on. Okay. I mean, no shame. No shame. If that's your kink, I'm sorry.
00:15:47
Speaker
I shouldn't have said weird. uh that's right erin we're sex positive here but also in this book minotaurs they kind of have a sowing their wild oats phase from what do you say 18 to 25 ish oh and that's when they calm down and aren't so interested in that anymore and want to find their mate for life and of course minotaurs wait mate for life because that's what bulls do also he's not a vegetarian like what they don't have teeth that i thought that too and also i was like oh he'll be vegetarian and then and then i was like like wait but just ivy was a vegetarian yeah i was like was like oh that means they match that's an indicator that they match and they're like and then they had the roast and i was like what well right but in greek mythology the minotaur ate humans so that could be what it is yeah you were thinking cow erin or bull i mean well if that's the case there and you should have also been wondering about their flatulence
00:16:42
Speaker
ah
00:16:46
Speaker
Just saying. I wondered, because I was like, wait a second. So Minotaurs have this wild phase until 25, but there are women Minotaurs. And... Spoiler alert. If Ivy's got minotaur blood, that is a spoiler.
00:16:59
Speaker
So ignore that. If you just erase it. word work If you didn't want to know that. where Why the heck doesn't she have a wild face? no but The women don't have wild faces? Lady minotaurs aren't allowed to have wild faces. Come on.
00:17:10
Speaker
Yeah. So I think in some, this book kind of had some interesting nuances to it, but we'll talk about that later, maybe. So once in summaries for ready for her yeti. All right. I got it. We'll see if you can think of what we'll see, determine how I felt about this book.
00:17:25
Speaker
uh oh so do you say do you say say rab or do say rob by the way would say rab said rab okay i said rab too like rabton yes helen and rab are put into a forced proximity situation when they are both assuming that they are the winter caretakers for a lodge in alaska only rab is a yeti and helen spends 98% of her time in her own head.
00:17:57
Speaker
All right. ah But in a cute way. and Helen and Rab have to decide how hard they want to work. And what if they want to have a relationship with that. That's my one-sided summary.
00:18:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Okay, mine is a Helen and Rab. Okay, Rab is normally the caretaker for an Alaskan lodge, the winter caretaker. But when the human that he, who owns the lodge, didn't hear from him, he offers that post to Helen for a month.
00:18:26
Speaker
And having just had a terrible breakup and kind of a quarter-life crisis, even She is going to have the month of Helen, but the minute they see each other, they have a magical parts sparkles and ah
Challenges in 'Mail Order Minotaur'
00:18:41
Speaker
spend time doing cute interludes until they get irrationally jealous because they don't talk to each other and continue not to talk to each other.
00:18:50
Speaker
I'm ignoring the cute interludes. I'm glad you brought that up because there are some really tender and cute interludes. You're right. It's interesting that you said they were tender and cute. I was like, the substance of this book is just like, how many cute interludes can I put in here? There's like no plot whatsoever.
00:19:04
Speaker
Anyway, Ollie. Helen refers to her arousal as excitement in my girly bits.
00:19:15
Speaker
So... sentence. That's your one sentence.
00:19:22
Speaker
I appreciate that. Full stop. Love it. Consider it done. All right. So I guess maybe the first question we should discuss before we totally get sidetracked is, do you think that these are representative of current monster romance?
00:19:43
Speaker
So, I mean, i don't read a ton of other monster romance. I did go ahead and read The Ogre's Bride, which I think I told you, like, you guys dodged a bullet with that one. that I mean, that one was a wild ride.
00:19:56
Speaker
It claimed it was dark, but was like, not really. How disappointing. That is disappointing. But I feel like both Mail Order Minotaur and Ready for Her Yeti were not as sexy as I was expecting.
00:20:11
Speaker
I agree. Because, but and I think that is, I'm so glad that you brought that up because I think you're 100% with the whole purpose of doing this revisit was what's changing in the trend. And I do wonder, because they were, they were so sweet.
00:20:23
Speaker
Well, that's the thing is I feel like monster romance has always been pretty sweet. Like the, you know, there are these monsters that seem so scary, but they're actually so gentle. And like, that's kind of the dynamic that I felt like a lot of them were playing with.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah. And that was still here, but it used to be they were so gentle, but also we're going to pound town. Right. And in these books, they didn't really, there was more sex in Man Eater, but yeah.
00:20:49
Speaker
Not a ton more. There was more sex in Maneater, but it wasn't so much more. think the thing about Maneater was she did a really good job of towing the line between they're just hot for each other with no explanation whatsoever and describing how they're hot for each other in a way that makes you feel like it's hot, right?
00:21:12
Speaker
like Sometimes the author will write, like even Ready for Her Yeti For sure. I feel like Mail Order Minotaur, yes, but there was so much other, like, thinking about all these other things going on that it was less about how hot they are and more about, like, all the social nuances going on.
00:21:29
Speaker
Right. But in Ready for Her Yeti, it was like, ooh, sexy claws. Ooh, sexy fur. Like, okay. But in A-Eater... It was like, oh, boobs. I like boobs, but I can't look at the boobs.
00:21:41
Speaker
That's not okay. I was like, look at her face. Right. And there was that whole scene where he like has his fantasy, right? hu and And, but he doesn't want to tell her because it's embarrassing. He has his sex fantasy and she's like,
00:21:55
Speaker
Right. And she's like, if I can guess it, will you let me do it to you? And he's like, okay. um And then she does. Right. And it gets a little kinky and that's cool, but like not so weird. Yeah. No, but that's what it is. Right. Is he's just like,
00:22:12
Speaker
oh, oh, like, I see you and I'm attracted to you, but, like, like oh I can't, I can't, I can't actually act on that. That's, like, not, like, it's not appropriate. not appropriate ah And I did like that ah more than just, like, rawr,
Current Themes in Monster Romance
00:22:28
Speaker
I'm horny. I just don't, you know, like, that never does that anything for me in books. So it's, like, so for me, sometimes monsters stuff is, like, you know, whatever.
00:22:36
Speaker
But I was also surprised by they all had... Okay. Well, with the exception of Maneater, not to traumatize Ingrid, but they all had very human genitalia. You know, like the miniature is just they were huge. yeah Yeah. Very big. I think the Yeti was big too.
00:22:55
Speaker
And retractable-ish. Yes, there was cock pocket. That's what the term is. There's a term for that. Yeah. Erin.
00:23:06
Speaker
Erin. But I mean, it's got to go somewhere when he's in his fur. Oh, Lord. and Anyway, but like the shape of them, the function of them, there wasn't.
00:23:18
Speaker
Yeah. There wasn't like, a oh, it's ribbed. Oh, it vibrates. Oh, it has additional. I was waiting for when the Yeti one for the little buddy ears to pop down really was because i just felt like i just got the vibe that that was gonna be like oh i've been a lonely yeti in the mountains isolating myself so as not to terrify the small humans for whom i have perfectly designed genitalia yeah you know what i mean I just kind of got that vibe.
00:23:48
Speaker
So I guess the spoiler, because it happens at the end of Man Eater, is that in her human form, which is most of the time that they're copulating, Elle is perfectly human.
00:24:04
Speaker
But in her succubus form, she's like, okay, Shane, I'm gotta tell you something just a heads up and then he's like surprise me and then he's like it's not teeth is it it's okay if it's teeth he's like i don't know if i like pain but i'm willing to try it for you yeah i know this guy And I'm like, you are some little... It is not teeth.
00:24:27
Speaker
But she's got like an internal slit and tentacles come out and wrap around it so she can hold on to him until she's done with him. Which honestly, I think is great thinking on the part of this author. But I was, you know, that gif of the woman with like all the like so confused with the math symbols circling around her head. i was just like, I don't understand...
00:24:47
Speaker
the physics of this like well she's holding on physics don't apply to well erin that's what you were thinking but you want to know what i visualized you know in pirates of the caribbean when there's that scene where the pirate captain gets hit by the moonlight or whatever and it turns out his beard is squid tentacles
00:25:12
Speaker
That's what I pictured. It was just like, blah, blah, blah, blah. Like, it was not okay with me. And then also I'm just sitting there like, you're telling me, sir, that you're doing it with your lady and a tentacle hand reaches out of her lady bits and just grabs on your business and you're just going fine with that?
00:25:31
Speaker
Like, surprise, I have another hand my privates. Okay, but guys, it's just like reverse nodding. Yeah, yeah.
00:25:41
Speaker
I'm not a super huge fan of nodding. I know. Nodding really freaks me out. Because you know what i picture in nodding? You know what picture in nodding? Because like the thing with nodding is how long they sit. It just stays there, and then you just sit there awkwardly while you're like, well, that was fun. You want to get some food later? like the I always picture that where they're like, oh.
00:26:01
Speaker
And then he nodded and it was hours. And I'm sitting there like, if it was really hours, like you can't tell me that you're sustaining sexy time for that long. So there's these lulls, awkward conversation, like. Where you're just attached and you're like, man, I just really have to pee.
00:26:14
Speaker
I got one of UTI. Or like. hey you've got this giant thing nudging my insides around. I'm going to rip a tooth. Like you can't, you cannot tell me all. So like, and this is why, you know, we say that there's romance for everyone.
00:26:28
Speaker
And I think that weird privates are just not for me because I, I cannot stop myself from overthinking. I am going to ruin it for you. author Like you've worked so hard to craft this like fun, quirky, like sexy time. And I'm going be like, but bet bet the whole time, whole time.
00:26:47
Speaker
It's not for me Well, so, but he is. Okay, so accepting Man Eater then, Ingrid. Yeah. The other two. The pirates were fine. They were fine. Yeah, they were very, ah very vanilla. i Thankfully, because of Morning Glory Milking Farm, I was already ready for the Minotaur Deluge.
00:27:06
Speaker
I felt like... I felt like I was a little surprised that they didn't make it like, but it's not cum. It's chocolate milk. Or, but it's not cum. Ew. Ew. Banana flavored Laffy Taffy. Like, I was surprised that they didn't do that. worst flavor of Laffy Taffy.
00:27:22
Speaker
Right. Because, like, if you have that much, like, that's a lot. But they didn't. They just leaned right into it, which I felt like was a bold but appropriate choice for the for the book. I just, it was a surprise that they didn't do that.
00:27:34
Speaker
Usually I feel like they try to take it and they're like, okay, well, copious, like a ah shower of, of spend is not for everyone. So I'll tweak a little bit. So it's more appealing to more people, but that did not happen here. She just leaned right into it, which, you know, good for her.
00:27:51
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, but I feel like also because Morning Glory Milking Farm was such a thing yeah a huge part of it was and yeah the Minotaur Deluge, as you called it. yeah um that she knows that like Minotaur readers are kind of already primed for that right yeah they already know this is not a surprise yeah okay so I don't know though if all the monsters coming out now is this low heat right we just picked three at random right yeah so it could be that there's others that are still really going for it yeah but i do but it feel like like the gentleness was exactly what i was expecting yeah but also based on what on what we did like five years ago because i feel like last time we did it i was kind of shocked at how gentle they all were and a little bit bored
00:28:41
Speaker
And this time was like, okay, like, that's just what it is.
Future Trends in Monster Romance?
00:28:44
Speaker
Yeah, i like, I thought the racism subtext was like, very heavy handed and not greatly done. But it seemed like the author was at least aware that that's a subtext that is around in monster romance.
00:28:58
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I do feel like, and maybe I'm digging deep in the memory bank for this one, but I feel like, yeah, like the social issues were a lot more obvious in these.
00:29:09
Speaker
It was a much more integral part of the plot in these. So like, I think the reason we thought male um Morning Glory Milking Farm was like, oh my gosh, was because Aaron was like, oh my gosh, this so relatable from a millennial standpoint, right? Right.
00:29:21
Speaker
And and i I don't think I expected to see that. And it was subtle. It wasn't like in your face like it wasn't like I'm struggling with my millennial issues. You know, it was you could just kind of feel it.
00:29:32
Speaker
Whereas with these, it was very much like you're seeing, i mean, a barring ready for her Yeti. I feel like that one didn't really go into so much of that. But um in both Mail Order Minotaur and man Maneater.
00:29:44
Speaker
they were really, really overt, like it was examining something. So like, I felt like with Maneater, it was really, really, really examining power dynamics and consents. yes you may right and just human sexuality in general it just felt like there was it was really really really like right there in your face part of the plot and then with manny there was set in the eighty s yeah we should note also we yeah uh because uh it's oh it's because it's a prequel which her series which is about uh the first book is about their son but yeah i i think that that's one of the changes that i will say that i noticed was that i was like
00:30:19
Speaker
Oh, it feels like as a writing community, right? Like we've gotten over kind of the thrill of this like monster dog stuff. And now it feels like the opportunity for digging into things is kind of opening up.
00:30:34
Speaker
And i'm that's what I wonder if if that's what's happening is that people are really seeing the opportunity that comes from having, you know, like when you, cause part of the thrill here is, okay, these are two very different bodies. That was part of what we talked about before. Like,
00:30:48
Speaker
how does How does it work? the How are they going to be intimate? Usually it's one person entering into another person's society. So it's like, you know, that how are we going to make this work on all these different levels type of a thing, right? And so that kind of setting, that kind of environment is just so, it's just, there's so much opportunity for unpacking things in an interesting way and throw in some romance and some hanky panky and you got yourself a fun thing to
Maturity and Nuanced Dynamics
00:31:14
Speaker
read. So I think it's very interesting that that's two out of three, definitely.
00:31:18
Speaker
so that maybe the subgenre we could say it is maturing a little bit found its feet I mean but like think it's just going deeper it's going deeper but like just is obviously not every book is going deeper no well I think these are all still short right I think maybe it's found its footing in this like sweet othering because all these other books also had an othering factor right like Ingrid kind of said there's two different bodies what's going on There's been the question of me going to your space or you coming into mine or how are we going to make this work? Because frequently, not always, but frequently the monsters are ah hidden from society, which they weren't in Mail Order Minotaur. They were in Maneater and Ready for Her Yeti.
00:32:06
Speaker
But in Mail Order Minotaur, then you're dealing with the othering because of the racism issue. Societal white othering. Right. Yeah. But they're still pretty short.
00:32:18
Speaker
And like i can see why you guys are saying, okay, they're there maturing or they're focusing on other things. I mean... I don't know. I think with the... Okay, sorry. What was the one we read with the alien where the woman went to the planet? Oh, Married a Lizard Man. I Married a Lizard Man. And she's like, basically, it was just like, colonialism is awesome.
00:32:38
Speaker
You know, like, there's still stuff being explored and you know, before, in the before times. But i I feel like there's still a kind of a...
00:32:50
Speaker
threading together a story for the sake of the sex whatever the sex looks like right like it was especially apparent to me and ready for her yeti where it was just like now let's cut your fingernails now let's hurt let's cut your claws this is the most intimate thing ever it's like okay was like now i'll wash your hair i was just like okay I mean, i think, ah yeah, it's cute.
00:33:17
Speaker
It's supposed to be cute, but it it wasn't really doing much. It was just like getting them to the part where they could get a bed together, you know, really because it's supposed to be building intimacy. and Yeah.
00:33:30
Speaker
But the reason for that is, is that what's the subplot in Ready for Her Yeti? What? Let's look at the obstacle that they're overcoming. What obstacle are they overcoming? They're overcoming she's planning on leaving and leaving Alaska.
00:33:42
Speaker
Which is a relationship issue. So like there really isn't anything else to pull them out. And I think that's one of the differences because like with Maneater and Maileriter Minotaur. yeah So even in Maneater, there's like a relationship thing, but it's not just that she's going to leave and he's going to be sad. It's like, how do we overcome, you know, like he is an inexperienced virgin.
00:34:02
Speaker
She is a succubus. Like, how do we overcome our differences to be together, right? So it is ah little bit bigger of a subplot. I feel like with Ready for Her Yeti, the reason it feels superficial is because plot-wise, it is kind of superficial. Right, and because they I feel like him being a yeti was only a problem for their relationship and that he could not come live in Portland with her because he can't live in a city.
00:34:26
Speaker
Right.
Relationship Dynamics in 'Maneater'
00:34:27
Speaker
It wasn't that, oh like, maybe I want to have kids and we wouldn't be able to procreate or like... may or Or like maybe i want to be able to live in human society and I can't because my partner's a Yeti.
00:34:43
Speaker
But like in that it was weird because, you know, Yetis are secret, but he does know other Yetis. not yet. and they're not some human yeah And some humans know and he has a human job.
00:34:55
Speaker
And he's just like, as long as he's wearing clothes that cover his fur and like a ski mask and stuff, he has like kind of bluish white skin. And he just is like, yeah, I just tell people that like I'm wearing really high zinc oxide sunscreen and it's fine. And so I can pass for human.
00:35:15
Speaker
Under certain circumstances. And like, you know, like the Minotaur is not going to pass for human under any sort of any circumstances. So in Ready for Her Yeti, also, I think I was a little disappointed that the author didn't lean into yetis are naturally solitary creatures.
00:35:35
Speaker
Right. Solitary nomadic creatures more It was more like this is a lifestyle preference thing. And I felt like- you're talking you like naturally solitary nomadic creatures. Yetis are not real. Holly, how dare you?
00:35:53
Speaker
Yetis can be anything you want them to be. But I thought it seemed like she was presenting him as he was naturally ah solitary roaming kind of animal, right? Like humans are communal animals, not to the extent of maybe ants or prairie dogs or whatever but like they're communal animals and not all animals are some animals do roam independently and then mate and then go back off and live their lives and if that were part of the yeti characterization which basically he was he spends all summer climbing around the mountain like there are specific seasons that he goes through right where he like is the lodge caretaker by himself for the winter so he can sleep in a real bed and like have
00:36:38
Speaker
And like condition his hair. yeah Yeah. And then in the spring or whatever the climbing season is, he's like doing leading climbing tours. And that's when he's wearing the ski masks and the clothes.
00:36:49
Speaker
And then for like part of his time, he's just like out in the wilderness eating weird animals and grubs and like growing his claws so he can scrabble around the Alaskan range. Right. Like he is clearly living a certain kind of life.
00:37:03
Speaker
And that's not the problem. Right. Like right he can just flip a switch yeah and live with her. He just has to figure out the context in which he can live with her and be hidden.
00:37:14
Speaker
Right. And they, ah you know, spoiler, spoiler at the end, they have a very remote house. Right. When it all comes together. So I guess there is a little bit of a marriage of... But like what her mom is supposed to be so excited that she's moving back to Alaska and it's never brought up like, what are your parents going to think about this?
00:37:31
Speaker
You know what Like, right. You're going to have, what are you to do? Is your mom so excited that you're moving back to Alaska, but is your mom so excited that you're dating a Yeti? Right. And like, not only that, but like, how about like your mom has a Christmas party?
00:37:47
Speaker
Yeah. He's not, he can't come. What about this wedding? Like you're going to have a wedding and then he's going to covered in zinc oxide. Like it. Right. It was not fully delved into because I don't think that was the point.
00:37:59
Speaker
Right. It's not the point. That's the superficiality that you were mentioning earlier. Right. right Yeah. So, I mean, Maneater was very chill. I liked it more. And I think that's even though it did have these moments where it was like the tension being very focused on.
Critiques of 'Mail Order Minotaur'
00:38:15
Speaker
I want this to work, but she's a succubus. Can I meet her needs? Like, yeah. And then she's dealing with the sort of like rejection trauma from her past relationships because her previous partners.
00:38:28
Speaker
had an idea of what a succubus was like and kind of shamed her for it or for her sex work you know like right and her so as a sex worker she's a stripper yes not that she doesn't hasn't also had sex in the course but like that's not the focus of her work or her work is she gets enough vibes from but on the audience yeah to to feed her succubus needs and then she can just have sex for fun when she feels like it But I thought that was cool also where he's like, if you need to be non-monogamous, that's fine.
00:38:58
Speaker
She gets mad at him. She's like, what, you think succubus can't be monogamous? He's like, I'm just... I thought it ah interesting too, though, with that one, that there is some...
00:39:11
Speaker
This isn't really monstery. I think this maybe falls in more to like the he's a cinnamon roll sub kind of a thing. But yeah, this sort of ah he is 100% focused on catering to her needs and wants.
00:39:26
Speaker
Yeah. Like, I'm not sure that there was ever a time that he was like, this is what I need and want. And can you give it to me? And like I said, I think this was a little bit not just like he's a total cinnamon roll. It's also that as a sub service to her is part of what he needs and wants. It just wasn't articulated quite like that.
00:39:46
Speaker
um But at at the beginning, I was kind of like, come on. Like, do we have to have these guys who are like, the only way we can show that a guy is a good guy is that he just like lays on the ground and is like, step on me.
00:40:00
Speaker
You know, I was like, but it did. I mean, it pulled together when it started getting more of the dumb sub and they were being more open with each other. guess. ah yeah Yeah. That's a dynamic. That's challenging.
00:40:12
Speaker
I think for me to read, it's just like, can he have something that he wants? Well, and i think I think that's where, you know, um this kind of like sub group of books these monster romance books are interesting because i think it naturally attracts people who are interested in watching certain like specific dynamics play out you know what i mean and so having and also I think it's gonna attract people who are interested in seeing specific dynamics get kind of pushed a little further than they would normally be pushed so it didn't really surprise me that we found in a like sub dom
00:40:48
Speaker
really tight And it wasn't, I don't think it was expressly stated. It was, it's more that it was just a natural connection between two people, one who prefers to be more dominant and one who prefers to be more submissive. Right. But I think that it's a, it doesn't shock me that we see a hero who just naturally is like, I want to be.
00:41:07
Speaker
you're like i want to be completely subordinate to you but you know not but not overt just like his it's not just what he is in the bedroom it's who he is as a person right yeah i didn't surprise me that that was examined more and pushed a little further in a monster book i think oh then it would be yeah like with then in contemporary anything well yeah no what in what oh no like like i was thinking in that that other femdom book we read um Oh, with the chess piece on the cover. Heather Gare. Yes. Heather Gare.
00:41:40
Speaker
Yes. Right. Where, you know, and that is a much more. Oh, my God. What is the name of that book? I'm so mad. Preferential Treatment. Preferential Treatment. Dang, Erin. Right. Where that is very explicitly from the beginning is she is the dom to him.
00:41:54
Speaker
Right. And so they're not moving to it. Yeah. But you don't. I don't know. Well, it's, I think part of the reason I was thinking about that is that I actually, i was reading another book with a more kind of submissive, gentle hero recently. And it was funny because I read, you know, manager first and then I read, I've been reading this one. I'm not done with it yet, but it occurred to me when I was reading that it's interesting that I feel like even though in real life guys who are gentle and more submissive, this is not like unusual, but it is almost more unusual in romance where we tend to see more heroes who are like, they might be gentle, but
00:42:27
Speaker
And they might be really, i i will do anything for you, very accommodating, very like worshipful, but they're not bashful. They're not insecure. They're not the traits that would normally go with being a little bit more submissive. We don't see that because it's just not as popular.
00:42:45
Speaker
So I think it is a little bit subversive for this character to be, to just lean fully into being a big squishy marshmallow. Mm-hmm.
00:42:56
Speaker
And I so i I thought that was really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Moving on to Mailerder Minotaur. Can I just say. Oh, my gosh. We have we've only gone to through one book. No, we've gone through. I mean, we've been jumping around, but yeah I feel like we haven't talked about Mailerder Minotaur as much much. Yeah.
Speculative Fiction and Omegaverse Themes
00:43:12
Speaker
I was kind of surprised that Ivy would say stuff specifically about Bryn's sex work.
00:43:19
Speaker
I guess mostly it was like, I should pay you for your time. Even after the first time they were intimate, she's like, what do I owe you? And he just like, mean, that time he was like, wait, what? And it was like crushing.
00:43:30
Speaker
But she was like, I'm joking. But even with the joking, I would have been like, that's not okay. We are clearly not on the same page. Yeah. Like I was surprised that every time that came up, it wasn't like more upsetting to I guess maybe he's just so comfortable with She talks that she's okay with it, but if she's joking about it, it's not. But it's clearly not.
00:43:51
Speaker
It's clearly not. And she'll tell her parents that he's her boyfriend, but not that he's a sex worker.
00:44:02
Speaker
ah Well, yeah. They're not dumb. They know how to use the internet. They like figure it out pretty fast. But yeah, it's. Yeah, I will say I personally felt that the heroine in Mail Order Minotaur was kind of, she wasn't my favorite. Let's just say that.
00:44:20
Speaker
Because if you think about it, like, you know, you want to see characters like really stretch and grow. But like you said, she does say, so to be full transparency, when I was reading, I was expecting their black moment.
00:44:31
Speaker
to be her having to face her own prejudices. prejudices Because I was seeing them. starts off the book with prejudice. Like, ryan they are very clear. It's not quiet. All the way.
00:44:44
Speaker
And then even when he meets her parents, right? And she fails him. She puts him in a terrible position and I would have been crushed. And she knows that. but And he is crushed. He is crushed. He's devastated. And it made me really sad that when they finally like clear it up or whatever she's still like the excuse is i'm sorry i just i just paw i just freaked out but when you're reading it she doesn't just go blank she sits there and she's thinking the whole time like it reads as if she's made a conscious decision and then it's played off like she didn't do you know what mean and i was just like oh i've lost some respect for you as a character now
00:45:22
Speaker
because And it's not cleared up. It's not like she's like, you know, i really, I need to think i think about this. Like, this is really, you know, it and what well it immediately shifts into the parents are the problem, not that she's the problem. Well, no, and and I think the author thinks that it actually has been cleared up because after he leaves, before she goes to apologize or offer her explanation, she does tell her parents that actually, no, that wasn't the plumber, that was my boyfriend. Yeah, immediately after he leaves, think.
00:45:49
Speaker
they're Because they're immediately like, you should check your house and make sure he didn't steal stuff. but Yeah. And she's nice dishonest. Like you shouldn't. We would have sent you our handyman. Right. And so then that, you know, spurs her to but like defend him. But and it didn't even make sense. it This is what it felt like. It felt like and this is me being a little bit snooty here, I'll be honest. But like this could have used a much more blunt, like developmental editor here because.
00:46:15
Speaker
There are some plot holes because so so the dad's known all this time that he has minotaur blood, but his gut instinct is that like, oh, there's a minotaur here.
00:46:26
Speaker
you're not safe make sure he didn't steal your stuff like yeah i just have a hard time thinking that he would go that far i feel like it would make more sense for him to just have a reaction and have it not make sense do you know what mean like don't know like you that was bad and then she's like what is your problem like he's got like he's got an internalized bias because he's living as a human and his parents are human but he knows about this so he also has some internalized shame about it Right but it doesn't come off that way at all It's just like oh well her parents are look like terrible people And she's going to look like a terrible person If I don't make this better so I'll just make them all part Minotaur Right and then also Therefore if she's part Minotaur Even though she's like 1 32nd See this is where like The weird racial subtext Is like really coming in like what are you doing Like maybe you should have had A black person better read this book I don't know
00:47:18
Speaker
yeah it just there were some gaps anyway but because she's 132nd minotaur it means that even though she's a cute twee tiny human um she'll still be able to birth giant minotaur babies because her magical minotaur blood will protect her and that's what's important so they can have 12 kids yeah who yeah right they're like really into we're gonna have a lot of babies doesn't it Doesn't she go into heat or something? Am I getting little confused? At her parents' house, yeah. yeah parents so Like, also, humans going into heat in monster books seems to be a thing. That also happened in the ogre book I read, where, like, the human heroine went into heat, and I was just like...
00:47:58
Speaker
That's one of my favorite things. How does your entire reproductive system just go love that about Omegaverse books. It's like, I'm on an alien planet and all of a sudden my entire reproductive system is completely changed because of the air vapors.
00:48:12
Speaker
Like, what? Doesn't make sense, okay? No, and this is just like, you're because of like ogre pheromones and you're the ogre queen, so even though you're a human. Yeah.
00:48:25
Speaker
Too bad. It's hilarious. Yeah. It's like, okay, we're on this ride, I guess. That's the one of the nonsense things about, and it's not just monster books. Like I said, it's Omegaverse. It's like a whole subset of spec fic where it's like, you know, we're going to go speculative fiction. So we're just like, things don't apply. Things don't apply here.
00:48:44
Speaker
Yeah. Logic.
Monsters as Abstractions of Human Fears
00:48:46
Speaker
I don't know her.
00:48:50
Speaker
Oh, man. But I mean, that's half the fun. i mean, let's be real. it It is kind of fun when you can tell an author. It's just like, fuck it. I'm going to whatever I want.
00:48:59
Speaker
Like, I think that's great. I'm like, you do you. Go for it. Yeah, whatever do it. like Do the thing. but no But check for plot holes. but Maybe just chuck still have some critical reading happening. Well, and like, I don't care if it's overt where it's just like, oh, I had no idea this could happen. I'm like, yeah, okay.
00:49:13
Speaker
but but i But I roll with it. we we just We just avert your eyes and keep walking through the plot. But when it's like this, where it's like, okay, you're it feels like this is getting to the point where it's a little bit lazy. Like you set up this whole big stereotype problem in the plot and then you solve it in this really like kind of underhanded way and it's fine as long as I don't lose respect for the characters or completely don't care about the plot anymore do what you want man like I don't care this is writing you know there's no rules you can do whatever you want but if I don't like your character anymore then I don't want to read it so you know he and especially if you're go to be doing it in a situation where it's clearly like racial stereotyping and stuff maybe take the time to make sure that you resolve it in a way that's
00:49:54
Speaker
That is a thing that I haven't read. I mean, i honestly haven't read a ton of monster romance, all things considered. And I was kind of ah sucked in in 2021. And i spoke probably most of my monster books were then. And my tag is even, for my own reading, it's like monsters and ghosts.
00:50:14
Speaker
So it's not even monster exclusive. And... It's just if there's no tension, it's just about think kinky fuckery, as we might say, that's one thing where you're like, all right, let's go.
00:50:32
Speaker
And then fine. What plot? But, you know, if it's kind of supposed to have a plot, like it's supposed to be a story, like put in the tension, have some substance and pay attention to these racial colonialists, like all these other overtones that like get shoved in there because it's a lot of workbooks.
00:50:54
Speaker
have racist it's the same as with like vampire books having anti-semitic stuff right like there are these these creatures came from somewhere that was not wholesome i guess i don't know what word i want to use but like it was they're not fine Yeah, well, I mean, I feel like monsters, speaking more generally, not just monster smut, but like monsters are a way for humans to project their fears onto something else, right?
00:51:23
Speaker
And to think about their fears in a more abstract way. know that outside of reading this is period. Period. Yeah, just in general, monsters. In general. The existence monsters, yeah. Right?
00:51:33
Speaker
And in an abstract way to, like, then kind of process these other fears, right? So, of course, it makes sense that then monsters might be based on stereotypes of kinds of people or people that someone might be afraid of for good or not good.
00:51:52
Speaker
yeah whatever reason for whatever reasons right or you know or like zombies ah i feel like i have i'm not seeing any zombie smut that's because it's not attractive to have like skin dripping well that's what read a zombie romance but the zombies were the bad guys not the romantic partners i'm not sure that i've ever seen and zombie romance please share with no authors please don't take this gone Don't get no sparks of creativity here, friends. would least read the reviews if I found one such book.
00:52:22
Speaker
No, Erin, you would jump headfirst into that thing and eat it up and you know it.
Critiques on Physical Descriptions
00:52:27
Speaker
The weird and the better Erin. There have zombie romance movies, though. ah yeah. Right? all right. Anyway, sorry, Holly, I kind of derailed you. really anyway Right, right, right. Zombies. Zombies are about human anxiety, about consumerism, or like losing a sense of identity, or like all of these things, right? And so like that's the kind of monster that comes up.
00:52:45
Speaker
Well, and also monsters have been a tool throughout history because like, i I'm just thinking about this because one of my children at one point was so frustrated because they were aging in a way where all the shows and movies that they were interested in were still a little too scary for them. And so they were like, well, i want to watch this movie. And I was like, well, you know, just ah FYI, if you didn't like this movie that you just watched because you thought it was terrifying, you're probably going to think this one was terrifying. And they were like,
00:53:10
Speaker
How come all these movies and books have scary stuff in it? And I said, because honestly, throughout history, we've used scary stuff to teach kids not to do stuff.
00:53:22
Speaker
So like, it's been used as kind of like a foil. So, you know, instead of kids having to learn stuff the hard way or having to constantly be like, don't touch that, don't go there, don't do that. You can be like, well, did you hear the story about the witch in the dark forest?
00:53:34
Speaker
And then they can be like, oh, no. And then you, you know, it's like a way to kind of modify behavior through play and whimsy, basically, and terror and fear. But the idea is.
00:53:46
Speaker
But, you know, like it's this is not something that's just this is throughout cultures, throughout time. This has been a teaching method for children. So in literature, like, you know, we look at these monster books and stuff and it makes a lot of sense that like like you're going to be examining fears and preconceived ideas and stuff. Right. Right, but I feel like in monster romance, they're kind of cutting out all the fears that we're examining, and they're just porting in these monsters from other places and saying, boop, I'm taking the Minotaur out of his context as a divine punishment who then eats people.
00:54:21
Speaker
Right. Right? Yeah. Like the Minotaur came about because some god got mad at some king and made the king's wife fall in love with a sacred cow and then had a cow human baby beat people.
00:54:33
Speaker
Like, that's horrifying. like Minotaurs and Smut are just like, all right. It's just cum. Cum and muscles. That's it. Yeah. Like, you're you're just like big humans.
00:54:45
Speaker
And soft fur. and With cow faces. Yeah. so Ingrid didn't get squicked out by the the cow mouth. No, I was.
00:54:55
Speaker
You just pretended it didn't describe kissing him. She didn't. She did. she yeah So it was less of a thing. Yeah, I just I actually made a concerted effort this time not to look at any covers as well.
00:55:07
Speaker
i just flew right past it. I was like, abs, pecs, don't look up and just move past it because I knew that I was going to like, oh God. And I was hoping there wouldn't be descriptions. And luckily this, I do think they, they really glossed over the animal parts a lot more this time than, than they did. And I feel like another thing is, is that they, they don't just have it be matter of fact, like, oh yeah, i have a tail. The tail becomes a like a very sensitive, pleasurable part. This is what, this is how they make it work. Right. Cause it's like,
00:55:34
Speaker
erogenous zone yeah they make it they flip it so they make it steamy instead right like my claws aren't scary my claws are like an intimate part of part of me exactly and we build intimacy through my scary monster bits right exactly okay this is also irrelevant but when in the yeti book she's like oh soft fur his fur is soft as silk was i was like but raw silk is like not that soft first of all and then second of all i was kind of like If you're just like grinding a ball on that, that's like how often does he have to do full body shampoo? And like, does he brush his whole body? Yeah, like this. There was a tuft of fur left in the hot tub. I mean, when he was in the hot tub at the beginning, I was like, oh, well, that doesn't seem good for the filter.
00:56:21
Speaker
yeah and then there's a section can you imagine the couch and stuff like i'm sitting there like i have two cats and that would be like one up to one knee on a yelp right so like can you imagine like you would be like swiffering all the freaking time it's just i mean i was thinking more physically like having a mouthful of yeah how is she how exactly she peppering kisses When she's having to be like, bleh, bleh. mean, it's doable. It's just not as ah sexy as no as other things. i like But again, Erin, don't pull an Ingrid. You're not supposed to think about not supposed to think about it. about it His fur is silky like satin silk.
00:57:01
Speaker
Yep. Not like raw silk. Yep. And he shampoos and conditions regularly. So it's nice and soft. Not like my stinky dog who gets a bath once a year, whether he needs it or not.
00:57:15
Speaker
Ugh.
00:57:17
Speaker
He's old. He doesn't get into the mud or anything anymore. It's fine.
Evolution and Future of Monster Romance
00:57:22
Speaker
He's a good boy. Well, so I feel like we kind of went into this was like, oh, this will be fun.
00:57:28
Speaker
it was fun last time. Ingrid was traumatized last time, but it was generally fun last time. But I feel like overall, we weren't super excited about these. I did like Maneater the best.
00:57:41
Speaker
You're welcome. i eat you with us i liked it a lot too. i thought and But she shifted, you know, it was also like a more like just an, Oh, it's like a regular demon book. So then I was like, yeah, I mean, it was fun.
00:57:54
Speaker
So I felt it read, it read more like fantasy to me because fantasy does have monsters. Mm-hmm. and the other thing. And so... Yeah, well, right. And, like, you know, and she is a demon. and Like, I feel like demons are kind of their own thing and that are kind of different from monsters.
00:58:08
Speaker
Yeah. And maybe depending on how they present themselves. Yeah. Like, you could have a demon who can't shift to human and he's just, like, a... Alice has like curly horns and or whatever. You know, it's just like a a lava guy all the time.
00:58:22
Speaker
Yeah. So my question is, since we did this, we've talked about where it was when we read it five years ago or four years ago, or whatever. And we've, you know, obviously we didn't do eight books this time, but one, where do you think monster books are going to go with it? And two, if monster books are kind of mellowing out, like where, where do you see,
00:58:42
Speaker
potential to examine these like boundary pushing dynamics so i think that monster romance in general probably has kind of just like settled into its niche or niche depending on where you live and what we might continue to see is just like a broadening of options within that so more female monsters or more sapphic monster romance or more actually lost monster romance well like holly i think did you get i read or i started i ended up dnfing because i was like it wasn't holding my attention but how to get a girlfriend when you're a terrifying monster oh yeah it was one of those books that i got because of the title and i was like this is weird right and like a blob monster okay yeah
00:59:32
Speaker
And it's an interesting premise. it just didn't like continue holding my attention. So if you read it, tell me what you think. So there are some options, but I think that we'll see more of that, more delving into not necessarily like changing the issues, but having different compositions of the relationships to further examine the issues. Right.
00:59:55
Speaker
Right. Yeah. sounds sense to me And maybe, fingers crossed, we might start seeing some monsters from other mythologies. Oh, yeah. I like i don't know.
01:00:07
Speaker
like Maybe K-pop Demon Hunters is going to spawn a million and monster smuts. i feel like monster smut is going to keep examining social issues. I feel like it's going to keep getting deeper.
01:00:21
Speaker
And I feel like when it comes to finding kind of the next place to kind of push the thing. So I have this weird feeling and don't ask me where I got it from. I'm feeling like Greek mythology type stuff.
01:00:33
Speaker
I feel like Greek mythology has been big for a couple of years, though. Like Katie Robert has like her whole head, her whole Dark Olympus thing. But gods and goddesses. And I'm talking about the underbelly of it. So you're saying, okay, we're having, or maybe we're even tapering, this Greek mythology moment, especially with all the Hades and Persephone retellings that were a few years ago. yeah And the counterpoint to that in monster romance would be the monsters of mythology. Exactly. I see.
01:01:01
Speaker
yeah Like some more Medusas. Yeah, Medusas. Get some Medusas. Maybe be some... so A lot of heroines who are best friends with Cerberus type thing. You know what i mean? So...
01:01:13
Speaker
I don't know. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe. and be smart I think Holly's right. I would i would expect. I've read a few korea books and it's fantasy it's fun to have like korean ghosts and monsters be the characters in that book i like it a lot so i would love to see that but i bet we'd see it more from korean or korean american or korean canadian authors yeah because unless you really are excited about that mythology a lot of people don't know it yeah right
01:01:45
Speaker
It's just that feel like, I mean, i would actually be interested, but I feel like what what makes me feel curious about that is that if you've watched a lot of like K-dramas and stuff, and and even if you like, even came up obviously K-pop D-Hunters was a kid's thing, but like, they're very PG.
01:02:02
Speaker
Like, yeah. They tend not to be very like bodice ripping, boundary pushing, you know? So I'm curious what would happen if that did happen.
Closing Thoughts and Humor
01:02:11
Speaker
You know what i mean? Like, well, no, I'm just saying, you know, K-pop demon hunters is a huge thing right now.
01:02:16
Speaker
Oh yeah. And how many people milk show and he's a smoke show. And like, I understand that K-pop demon hunters is like very chaste. Well, it's for children. And it's for children. at Is it?
01:02:27
Speaker
i don't know. Whatever. It's very chaste. But how many adults watched it and were like, oh, yeah. Oh, I have a big old crush on that guy. Like, if I went to AO3, how much really raunchy fanfic is there already about K-pop Demon Hunters? I don't even know.
01:02:48
Speaker
i don't know right and so and i mean i guess we'll see in six months if we're gonna see yeah you know a bunch of like just not like it but inspired by yeah by some of the the things that okay i'm picking up what you're putting down because i'm sitting here and i'm like i felt because what i was reading was well an integral part of some of this is the like proper it's the hand it's the darcy hand flex you get what i'm saying right So if you make it raunchy, how's that going to work? Because the allure is that it's the Darcy hand flex. It's the i I want to touch you, but I can't because I'm so well behaved type of a thing.
01:03:22
Speaker
So but now that I'm sitting here and I'm kind of like examining it with you and I'm like, well, but he is so dreamy and K-pop demon hunters. So imagine if he was a little bit naughty.
01:03:32
Speaker
And I feel like I would be still there for that. Let's do it. Yeah, let's see exactly. All right, authors. Ignore the part that Erin said about the how to make that dirtier, and but listen to the part about the K-pop demon hunters. Definitely be inspired by that.
01:03:47
Speaker
okay No zombies? No zombies. No zombies. I don't want any dripping skin, please. but you want but demons. hot demons. So help me. If I have to read a book next year for Halloween where a zombie takes his hand off and uses it to pleasure someone, I will i will quit.
01:04:01
Speaker
I'm done. Oh. Okay, guys. ah But that would be amazing. No, I'm sorry. No, it would. It would. i did start Lilyman's Goliaths of Wrestling series, and I think it's the third book.
01:04:15
Speaker
So it's between a ghoul and a dolihan, and the dolihan can remove his head, and he's like... let's get creative about this and i'm kind of like really looking forward to reading it and knowing what is gonna how creative are we gonna get actually i think the blurb on the back is like he puts on a show for like their neighbors the ghoul and the dullahan are neighbors and the ghoul like watches him doing stuff self pleasure Oh my god. You know, if you can remove your own head, then like self-pleasure can get really fun, I guess. I'm like, I think I'm going to read that one. course you are. I think let's close that door and say that show notes can be found at smotereport.com slash podcast.
01:05:09
Speaker
gosh. And until then, keep it smutty, folks. Na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-na-smut report!