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A Slice of Life with Khristen
25 Plays1 year ago
The queens are joined by special guest and long-time FDS'er Khristen for another instalment of our Slice of Life series, followed by a complimentary visit to the FDS BBQ.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
What's up queens?
00:00:01
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:00:05
Speaker
I'm Ro.
00:00:06
Speaker
And I'm Savannah.
00:00:07
Speaker
And this week we have a very, very special guest who has kindly agreed to come on the show to be part of our very popular Slice of Life series where you hear from FDS queens from around the world and from many different backgrounds and situations imparting their wisdom to you.
Discovering FDS After Divorce
00:00:26
Speaker
And today we are very, very lucky to have Kristen
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello, Kristen.
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello, thank you so much for having me.
00:00:32
Speaker
So thank you so much, Kristen, for coming on the show.
00:00:36
Speaker
Would you like to tell our listeners a bit more about yourself and how you came to find FDS?
00:00:41
Speaker
Yes, I'm really glad that I stumbled upon FDS in the way that I did.
00:00:46
Speaker
So I actually found you guys a
00:00:50
Speaker
in the aftermath of a very ugly divorce.
Early Marriage and Lessons Learned
00:00:54
Speaker
And I wanted to add in the specificity surrounding that divorce because I actually think that my situation is more common than what people realize.
00:01:05
Speaker
I was really young, so I fall into the category of people got married young, but I was fortunate enough to get out young as well.
00:01:13
Speaker
I wanted to just share a little bit about that.
00:01:16
Speaker
And I'm just so glad that I found you guys during that time because I have been able to really use some great FDS strategies and that mindset to better my dating life going forward.
00:01:30
Speaker
So I found you guys in my mid 20s.
00:01:33
Speaker
And now that I'm 30, it has just really turned my life around in so many positive ways.
00:01:39
Speaker
Yeah, we're so glad to hear that, Kristen, especially since you found us in quite a difficult time for yourself
Cultural and Upbringing Influences
00:01:45
Speaker
as well.
00:01:45
Speaker
You know, we're really, really glad that I'm assuming also the subreddit, I want to say, could be a source of support to you as well.
00:01:52
Speaker
Yes.
00:01:53
Speaker
So we'll come to touch on your divorce a bit later in the episode, but because you mentioned that you found FDS...
00:02:01
Speaker
during your divorce, could you touch or tell us a bit about your life growing up?
00:02:06
Speaker
So the sort of, you know, cultural context that you're coming from, and how that informed your initial approach to men and dating?
00:02:15
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:02:16
Speaker
So I kind of have a double whammy going on, because I am mixed race.
00:02:21
Speaker
And I also live in the south, the southern part of the US.
00:02:25
Speaker
So I have that very conservative southern
00:02:30
Speaker
kind of upbringing and just surrounding in that culture.
00:02:33
Speaker
At the same time, I also have my half of my family.
00:02:38
Speaker
So my mother's side is completely Asian.
00:02:41
Speaker
So they are of that descent, just for anonymity purposes, I'd like to keep that specificity to myself.
00:02:48
Speaker
But I
00:02:49
Speaker
That really had a big impact on me as well because a lot of Asian cultures, women are expected to be a certain way.
00:02:57
Speaker
And typically that certain way is be submissive, be docile.
00:03:02
Speaker
You know, the good women are quiet.
00:03:04
Speaker
The good women just take care of the family.
00:03:07
Speaker
That's just how it is.
00:03:08
Speaker
And growing up that way, you don't really question it because that's what's all around you.
00:03:12
Speaker
Then when you pair that, you know, with that Southern culture of it is in your best interest to get married really early and have kids really early, like that is your purpose.
00:03:22
Speaker
I think I grew up just really not thinking there were a whole lot of other options for me.
00:03:27
Speaker
Like that's just what it was supposed to be like.
00:03:30
Speaker
So I fell into that pretty quickly, especially given some of the messaging at home.
00:03:35
Speaker
And it really is just so conflicting because I think other people from Asian cultures can identify with that pressure to, you have to be a high achiever, right?
00:03:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:46
Speaker
You need to be great academically.
00:03:48
Speaker
You need to get jobs and all of that.
00:03:51
Speaker
But then if you're a woman, though, just throw that out the window once you have a man.
00:03:55
Speaker
It's just so odd to me.
00:03:56
Speaker
I was that kind of kid that I liked school.
00:03:59
Speaker
I liked academics.
00:04:00
Speaker
I tended to do well in school.
00:04:01
Speaker
I enjoyed learning and all of that.
00:04:04
Speaker
So, you know, go to college and everyone around me is just getting their MRS degree is what they call it in the South.
00:04:11
Speaker
You know, I was just kind of confused.
00:04:13
Speaker
Like, wait, why am I working this hard?
00:04:15
Speaker
I'm confused.
00:04:15
Speaker
So I'm sure other women can relate to that feeling that had similar situations to me.
00:04:21
Speaker
Definitely the part about like everyone expecting to give up all of your hopes and dreams for a man.
00:04:27
Speaker
I was very much discouraged from pursuing education because they felt like the guy I was dating at the time, the relationship wouldn't work out.
00:04:34
Speaker
Like quite literally multiple people in my community were concerned about that, which is kind of absurd, right?
00:04:41
Speaker
To be like, well, I'm going to spend the next 40 years with this person and then forego my education on the off chance that our marriage works out.
00:04:47
Speaker
Like that's insane, but that's just truly how people think.
00:04:51
Speaker
It really is.
00:04:52
Speaker
And that messaging is just so strong.
00:04:53
Speaker
And you don't realize it's not even just in your family unit.
00:04:57
Speaker
It's people that I talk to at school.
00:04:59
Speaker
It's what I see in movies and TV.
00:05:02
Speaker
It's what's just around you.
00:05:03
Speaker
So there wasn't a whole lot of room for me, especially as a young girl, and even as a teenager to question it.
Cultural and Religious Pressures on Marriage
00:05:10
Speaker
And I find that so strange as well, partly because
00:05:13
Speaker
even though I'm not, you know, from an Asian background, but it's a similar thing in African cultures as well.
00:05:20
Speaker
And just like knowing how much they emphasize and, you know, invest in education, even for women to a certain extent, to then expect them to just, you know, give it all up and become a housewife the minute they meet a guy is just peak misogyny almost, you know?
00:05:35
Speaker
Right.
00:05:36
Speaker
And it almost makes you question it.
00:05:38
Speaker
You know, as I got older and started to really analyze that kind of thing, it just feels so much like, oh, I was supposed to be a high achiever and pursue all these things.
00:05:48
Speaker
So a man would like me, not necessarily to enrich my own life.
00:05:52
Speaker
And not for your own benefit.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:55
Speaker
Because you mentioned that you grew up in the South, this could just be a symptom of my just complete lack of knowledge about American culture.
00:06:02
Speaker
But was there a religious element to your upbringing as well?
00:06:07
Speaker
Sure.
00:06:07
Speaker
So most people around me were some sort of Christian faith, whether it was Catholic or Baptist.
00:06:15
Speaker
Those were the two most common near where I lived.
00:06:18
Speaker
So yeah, engaging in things like church activities and Bible studies and
00:06:24
Speaker
And things like that was just the norm around me.
00:06:27
Speaker
And then pair that religious element with just everything else that definitely had an impact.
00:06:32
Speaker
It's kind of crazy, though, to interject and to color this.
00:06:35
Speaker
Like, yes, religion has something to do with it.
00:06:38
Speaker
But a lot of it is just cultural misogyny.
00:06:40
Speaker
Because I know a lot of people who would have said the same thing about women need to be doing this.
00:06:43
Speaker
And they haven't been to church since, I don't know, the 80s, maybe.
00:06:47
Speaker
Like some of these people do like they're not churchgoers.
00:06:49
Speaker
Like they're not actually religious.
00:06:51
Speaker
They just enjoy the misogyny aspect of
00:06:54
Speaker
keeping women subservient.
00:06:56
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:06:57
Speaker
I think in this case, it just didn't help very much.
00:07:00
Speaker
And I think in my personal situation, I'm lucky that my parents didn't necessarily push too much of the religion on me.
00:07:07
Speaker
It was actually more just the area that I was in.
00:07:10
Speaker
All of the popular kids at school did youth group and all those kinds of things.
00:07:15
Speaker
So I felt like I needed to do that to be liked and to have friends.
00:07:20
Speaker
So I
00:07:21
Speaker
I fell into that really easily.
00:07:23
Speaker
And that's where I did get even more messaging about what the role of a woman and a wife should be.
00:07:28
Speaker
So I kind of took that with me into my early 20s.
00:07:31
Speaker
Given, I guess, the cultural context that you came from then, when you finally stepped into the world with men, armed with all this knowledge about how you need to settle down with a man slash screw at any cost, how did that work out
Young Engagement and Personal Trauma
00:07:45
Speaker
for you?
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, personally for me, I ended up clinging to a guy at 16.
00:07:51
Speaker
Everyone around me told me I was being smart by doing that.
00:07:56
Speaker
And it's just baffling to me looking back at it now.
00:07:59
Speaker
You know, what do you know at 16?
00:08:02
Speaker
You really don't.
00:08:04
Speaker
Yeah, gosh.
00:08:05
Speaker
Well, that's the point, right?
00:08:06
Speaker
They want you to not know anything because you don't know you're getting a bad deal at that point.
00:08:09
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
00:08:10
Speaker
You know, now I can say that it was by design.
00:08:14
Speaker
But at the time, I totally fell for it.
00:08:17
Speaker
And I felt like, wow, I really am lucky that I found this guy already.
00:08:20
Speaker
And we stayed together most of college and my senior year, we got engaged.
00:08:26
Speaker
So I was barely even 22.
00:08:28
Speaker
I don't think I had even reached my 22nd birthday yet at the time.
00:08:32
Speaker
It was just a whirlwind and I thought I was on the right track.
00:08:36
Speaker
I thought I was doing, you know, checking the boxes like a good girl does.
00:08:40
Speaker
And I was on my way to being that when really, now that I know what I know and I can reflect, he definitely just saw me as someone to mold.
00:08:49
Speaker
and to make how he wanted.
00:08:51
Speaker
Was he the same age as you?
00:08:53
Speaker
He was two years older than me.
00:08:55
Speaker
Okay.
00:08:55
Speaker
So close enough that there wasn't creepy age gap, but he knew better.
00:09:00
Speaker
I mean, I definitely think like, even though people say when you're that age that, oh, three years doesn't matter.
00:09:05
Speaker
Because I remember when I had my first boyfriend around the same age that you were, 16, I think he was about 18 or 19.
00:09:13
Speaker
I think when you're that young, especially as a woman, even though it's only two or three years, it does make a massive difference in terms of, and especially if you end up with a scrote, like it just, I do think that difference is amplified a lot because they just have a lot more years of experience, especially it comes to like wearing you down and, you know, being quite shitty towards you as well.
00:09:37
Speaker
I do think it makes a massive difference, but people tend to downplay it as like saying like, well,
00:09:43
Speaker
It's only two years, it's only three years.
00:09:44
Speaker
But that particular excuse almost just ignores the fact that, you know, women, especially young girls, they are heavily socialized into being, you know, compliant and agreeable.
00:09:58
Speaker
And that can be really, really dangerous around men, especially if the man is older, I think.
00:10:03
Speaker
Sure.
00:10:03
Speaker
And I think just to throw in kind of a side topic here to layer onto that, my
00:10:09
Speaker
professional pursuits and things that I was studying in school were related to education and child development and things like that which I can touch a little on that later but that's famously not known for being a highly paid career path so there was even more messaging within my university system that to survive you just had to find a man oh wow because of your career yes oh wow
00:10:36
Speaker
So there was even more pressure of, you know, well, society doesn't, you know, reward the work of women.
00:10:41
Speaker
So if I want my bills paid, I need to find a nice man to do that for.
00:10:45
Speaker
And I think he saw that and knew that that's what I was interested in and knew that's what I wanted to study and pursue.
00:10:51
Speaker
So it was just the perfect storm, really.
00:10:54
Speaker
Yeah, of course, especially when you talk about that almost being a pipeline of grooming, as we call it from, I guess, your childhood and then the people around you and then your university.
00:11:05
Speaker
It's almost like there's just this whole system that joins together in quite a symbiotic way.
00:11:11
Speaker
Yes, I had no room to question it.
00:11:13
Speaker
There was no space to step back and analyze it or think, what do I actually want for myself?
00:11:18
Speaker
It's like someone just rolled the scroll out for me and said, here's your path.
00:11:23
Speaker
And during those years, did you ever come across feminism?
00:11:28
Speaker
I would say yes, but it was very surface level, if so.
00:11:33
Speaker
So I think back to how I was in college.
00:11:36
Speaker
And if you asked me basic questions like, well, do you support women's rights?
00:11:41
Speaker
I'd be like, yeah, totally.
00:11:42
Speaker
But I don't think I really knew what that meant.
00:11:45
Speaker
And all of that, you know, doing life on your own as a woman, especially in the area that I was, was just not very common.
00:11:52
Speaker
So I think I had my own internalized misogyny that I had to work on and probably still do at times.
00:11:59
Speaker
So it's an unlearning process.
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah, I would say feminism was definitely brought to my attention, but I don't think I really understood it.
00:12:08
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:08
Speaker
So moving on then to, I guess, the actual dynamics of the marriage itself and, you know, being married so young to somebody that you've known since you were 16.
00:12:18
Speaker
Do you want to share a bit more about that experience?
00:12:22
Speaker
You know, what it was like?
00:12:23
Speaker
And I guess like looking back, you know, the red flag, so to speak.
00:12:27
Speaker
Totally.
00:12:28
Speaker
And to throw another big wrench into the mix there, we got engaged only a couple months after my dad had passed away suddenly.
00:12:37
Speaker
So I had huge trauma.
00:12:39
Speaker
My dad just passed away in an accident my senior year of college.
00:12:43
Speaker
So my whole world was just kind of shaken at that time.
Manipulation in Marriage
00:12:46
Speaker
And it was almost like he took advantage of that to get us to have that trauma bonding, almost.
00:12:53
Speaker
So I think he saw that opportunity and swooped in.
00:12:56
Speaker
But everyone around me thought, wow, like, what a hero.
00:12:59
Speaker
He's a great guy.
00:13:02
Speaker
He's a great guy who's going to take care of her and her family during this hard time.
00:13:05
Speaker
And he did all of the surface level things, you know, coming to the funeral and helping my mom out while she's on her own for the first time and, you know, helping me with things and all of that, which, you know, you should do, but it was definitely to make him look good.
00:13:20
Speaker
It wasn't out of genuine concern and love for me or my family.
00:13:24
Speaker
It was, look, I'm the good guy.
00:13:26
Speaker
You know, when you say it like that, do you also think in his mind there was this, I suppose there was this element of him thinking like, I'm the man now, you know, now that your dad's gone.
00:13:37
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:13:38
Speaker
And I think he took advantage of that fact.
00:13:40
Speaker
So he definitely was one of those guys that wanted power and control, but did it in those covert ways.
00:13:47
Speaker
Because anyone who met him or knew him, you know, interacted with us would say like, Oh, he's really nice.
00:13:54
Speaker
He's a nice guy, you know, but he was so smart and so calculated to do things under the table.
00:13:59
Speaker
And in really small ways, you know, some guys are just total dicks and assholes.
00:14:04
Speaker
Like,
00:14:05
Speaker
right out the gate and you can see him from across the room that they're like that and he just wasn't that kind of guy so oh he must be a nice guy yeah sometimes the asshole it almost like like has to tenderize a bit in the slow cooker before you can really taste it with some of these scrotes totally just like an obvious like turd in a slow cooker it's like slowly marinating and slowly soft cooking until it's fully formed and fully cooked yeah
00:14:34
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely that situation.
00:14:35
Speaker
So he saw the opportunity and swooped in and took it.
00:14:39
Speaker
And I fell for it.
00:14:40
Speaker
But so did everybody around me.
00:14:42
Speaker
Because you can't really complain then, can you?
00:14:44
Speaker
I think it was quite a calculating thing to do.
00:14:46
Speaker
Because even if you had reservations at that point, it would make you come across as unreasonable if you voiced them.
00:14:52
Speaker
Because it would be like, oh, you know, he's helping you out.
00:14:54
Speaker
He's doing his best.
00:14:55
Speaker
Almost like
00:14:56
Speaker
You know when women go to Reddit and, you know, say something ridiculous or just outright offensive that their partner's done and the way Reddit quickly jumps to the guy's defense.
00:15:07
Speaker
I feel like that sort of situation would have played out had you said something.
00:15:11
Speaker
Right.
00:15:11
Speaker
I think I would have been met with a lot of, well, what are you complaining about?
00:15:16
Speaker
You have everything.
00:15:17
Speaker
And that's a really, really tough spot to be in, more so that you essentially got married off the back of your dad's funeral.
00:15:24
Speaker
I just found that really quite shocking, really.
00:15:27
Speaker
That must be an awful thing, you know, to have to go through.
00:15:30
Speaker
I mean, but like, I guess at that time, did you have any reservations about him at all?
00:15:35
Speaker
I mean, if there were, it was so slight because I really believed, well, this is what my dad would have wanted for me.
00:15:42
Speaker
He would have wanted me to meet the nice guy and do the thing.
00:15:45
Speaker
But again, it's another example of how he probably took advantage of the trauma situation because had I been maybe in a more stabilized part of my life, maybe I wouldn't have done that.
00:15:58
Speaker
So moving forward.
00:15:59
Speaker
on then to, I guess, the actual marriage itself.
00:16:02
Speaker
So after the wedding day, now you're married, you've now done, you know, what everybody's asked you to do.
00:16:08
Speaker
But what was the day to day like?
00:16:10
Speaker
And I guess like, when did it start to sink in that the marriage wasn't all it's cracked up to be?
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah, so I will say, he did very well financially.
00:16:20
Speaker
He had a very high paying job, he made a great salary, he didn't have a whole lot of debt.
00:16:25
Speaker
So he took on the role of finances.
00:16:29
Speaker
Then after graduating, I was working as a special education teacher.
00:16:33
Speaker
So I worked with elementary students that had special needs and it just doesn't pay great.
00:16:40
Speaker
I did okay, but not rolling in the dough by any means.
00:16:44
Speaker
So that definitely played a power dynamic that I don't think I really saw until I got out, that he really was making all the big financial decisions.
00:16:53
Speaker
But I was so busy and wrapped up in my work.
00:16:55
Speaker
It's a very draining job.
00:16:57
Speaker
I think I just let it happen.
00:16:59
Speaker
And now looking back, I wish I didn't do any of that.
00:17:02
Speaker
I wish I had kept more of my money separate because he convinced me to do, you know, let's combine all of our money and let me take care of it.
00:17:08
Speaker
And when I'm going through trauma of losing my dad and I'm starting to work in a career that is
00:17:15
Speaker
very difficult.
00:17:16
Speaker
I was like, yeah, okay, sounds great.
00:17:19
Speaker
I didn't think twice about it.
00:17:20
Speaker
So then also from the outside, everyone's like, well, you have it really great.
00:17:24
Speaker
He's taking care of you financially.
00:17:25
Speaker
Isn't that what a high value man would do?
00:17:27
Speaker
But not when it's paired with financial control or even financial abuse.
00:17:31
Speaker
So for example, I was working in a lower socioeconomic area.
00:17:36
Speaker
My kids tended to not have a lot of basic needs met.
00:17:39
Speaker
So I
00:17:40
Speaker
Every year around the holidays, they would do those angel tree kind of things where families would write down things that they needed.
00:17:47
Speaker
And then you could anonymously gift them something for their kids.
00:17:52
Speaker
And one of my students who I loved dearly, he wore shorts all year long, even if it was cold outside because he didn't have jeans.
00:18:00
Speaker
So I was like, I'll go to Old Navy and get him like a $15 pair of kids jeans, right?
00:18:06
Speaker
Like that is not the end of the world.
00:18:09
Speaker
And he got so mad at me.
00:18:10
Speaker
for spending money on that.
00:18:13
Speaker
And that was my first kind of red flag, like, whoa, like, not only is this not a lot of money, but this is for something I deeply care about.
00:18:20
Speaker
And I feel like is a really good thing to do.
00:18:22
Speaker
And you're gonna act like I'm wasting our money.
00:18:25
Speaker
Oh, I can just imagine the Reddit post now, if we went to Amaya the arsehole, it would be like, oh, it's like financially cheating.
00:18:32
Speaker
You should have told him.
00:18:34
Speaker
He has every right to be upset.
00:18:36
Speaker
He doesn't want you to be taken advantage or he's looking out for you.
00:18:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:40
Speaker
You'd be the asshole.
00:18:42
Speaker
I would be.
00:18:42
Speaker
You'd be the asshole.
00:18:44
Speaker
But meanwhile, he could have a BMW in the garage and have the Xbox and have all the bells and whistles he wanted, right?
00:18:51
Speaker
But I couldn't buy this sweet fourth grade child a pair of pants.
00:18:56
Speaker
So he wouldn't be cold.
00:18:58
Speaker
Like literally they were $15 at Old Navy.
00:19:01
Speaker
So, yeah, that was my first kind of like, maybe this isn't.
00:19:05
Speaker
But again, when you're stuck in that, you're like, okay, that was just one bad instance.
00:19:09
Speaker
You don't think, let me run away.
00:19:12
Speaker
Yeah, you sort of write it off.
00:19:13
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
Pursuing Independence Through Education
00:19:15
Speaker
So as time goes on a little bit, I realized I actually really love my job and I really love what I do and I wanted to pursue a master's degree.
00:19:22
Speaker
So I found a really great program that would still allow me to work and I could do classes on nights, weekends, hybrid online type situation.
00:19:30
Speaker
It was perfect.
00:19:32
Speaker
And I was so excited.
00:19:33
Speaker
It was something I thought a lot about.
00:19:35
Speaker
And I just jumped the gun and I just did it.
00:19:37
Speaker
And we even talked a lot about it.
00:19:39
Speaker
And he convinced me it was good because, you know, it could lead to better things.
00:19:42
Speaker
He said all the right things.
00:19:44
Speaker
He really made it seem like he was so supportive.
00:19:47
Speaker
But then...
00:19:48
Speaker
Well, that means my time is going to be spent on things like doing Zoom classes, writing papers, going to campus sometimes on weekends.
00:19:57
Speaker
That's where my time had to be spent.
00:20:00
Speaker
And I started to see slowly over time, he started to get upset, jealous, etc.
00:20:05
Speaker
when I was not able to be 24-7 caretaker to him.
00:20:08
Speaker
So I would go to work during the day.
00:20:10
Speaker
Sometimes in the evenings, I'd have to maybe write a paper or whatever.
00:20:15
Speaker
So yeah, I didn't have time to make dinner or I didn't have time to put away that other load of laundry and whatever.
00:20:21
Speaker
So a lot of times I saved the cleaning for the weekends and I'd be like, hey, you know, let's do this and this and this on Saturday and Sunday.
00:20:27
Speaker
And it was met with the classic like, well, I don't want to spend my whole weekend's cleaning.
00:20:31
Speaker
Well, maybe if you just did a bit during the week.
00:20:35
Speaker
Yeah, if you can just pull your weight Monday through Friday, we wouldn't have to do everything on Saturday and Sunday when I'm more available.
00:20:43
Speaker
Like you have two hands and you are more than capable of doing it.
00:20:46
Speaker
But he didn't understand that.
00:20:48
Speaker
He really thought that was my role, even though he never explicitly said that, right?
00:20:52
Speaker
But someone doesn't have to explicitly say that.
00:20:55
Speaker
But they don't have to, especially men, they don't have to say that, you know, like I'm an MRA, I'm a red pillar.
00:21:02
Speaker
They don't have to say it.
00:21:03
Speaker
They will tell you through their actions all the time.
00:21:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:07
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:21:08
Speaker
Yeah, gosh.
00:21:10
Speaker
You know, you're now in a situation where you're studying, but he's essentially trying to shift the social contract so you become basically a trad wife, essentially.
00:21:20
Speaker
Yes, so then enter the conversation about having children.
00:21:23
Speaker
And I think really he knew from very early on of knowing me that I enjoyed children and wanted to work with them professionally.
00:21:34
Speaker
It's a trap.
00:21:36
Speaker
Yeah, so I think he immediately thought like, oh, well, then she's going to be a good mom, like teacher to stay on pipeline type situation when I was like, that's not really what I'm looking for.
00:21:44
Speaker
I'm actually as a profession, but like, okay, no hate for those who stay home with their kids.
00:21:50
Speaker
But I was so young, I was just not ready for that.
00:21:52
Speaker
And I also knew I really wanted to pursue some higher education.
00:21:57
Speaker
And I just knew I can't work full time and get a degree and take care of a child.
00:22:02
Speaker
And have kids.
00:22:04
Speaker
Yeah, there's just no me.
00:22:05
Speaker
So he agreed to table the discussion until I graduated, and we did.
00:22:10
Speaker
Oh, how generous.
00:22:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:12
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:12
Speaker
So I graduate and enter conversation where he's like, you know, he's really wanting to do that and all this stuff.
00:22:20
Speaker
And I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I literally just graduated.
00:22:23
Speaker
I'm trying to figure out my next career moves.
00:22:25
Speaker
I don't necessarily want to stay here forever.
00:22:27
Speaker
Like, I'm trying to make decisions for myself.
00:22:29
Speaker
And he realized that the moldable girl he married was actually becoming more independent and trying to make decisions for herself.
00:22:37
Speaker
And I really think he didn't like it.
00:22:39
Speaker
It just sort of makes me cringe a bit when guys are like, you'd make a great mother.
00:22:43
Speaker
I mean, it's meant to be a compliment, but what I think it's become is that they're basically saying that you would make a great mummy bang made and, you know, you'll raise the kids and you won't ask me to do anything.
00:22:55
Speaker
I just find it really seedy now.
00:22:57
Speaker
I just think being on X is just like blackpilled the fuck out of me, actually.
00:23:01
Speaker
So maybe that's just me projecting.
00:23:03
Speaker
But yeah, when a guy says you'll be a great mum, I'm just a bit like...
00:23:07
Speaker
Oh, gosh, what makes you think that, especially when a lot of them don't seem to understand what it actually takes to be a mum because they undervalue the work of like women and mothers so much.
00:23:17
Speaker
So it's like, how will you know what it means to be a good mum if you don't even want to recognise the work it takes to be a mum?
00:23:24
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:23:25
Speaker
And I also think on top of that, too, he would also toss in there wanting to move.
00:23:32
Speaker
And it wasn't that I was against moving, but the places he was suggesting we move to were like halfway across the country.
00:23:38
Speaker
And I was like, look, my mom is a widow now.
00:23:41
Speaker
I'm not ready to just leave her like that at the moment.
00:23:44
Speaker
Also, if we did have kids, I would wander close by.
00:23:47
Speaker
Like, that's not working.
00:23:49
Speaker
Like, and where was this discussion before we got married?
00:23:51
Speaker
You're like throwing this out of left field.
00:23:52
Speaker
And then now I know that was another way to control, right?
00:23:56
Speaker
He wanted to isolate me away from my circle that he saw was actually empowering me.
00:24:01
Speaker
He wanted to remove me from that.
00:24:03
Speaker
And I think that's such a good point.
00:24:05
Speaker
And I'm really, really glad that you came to this rationalisation for yourself, like, Christine, because I think it's a mistake a lot of people, especially women, now make.
00:24:15
Speaker
I understand the economic pressures of, you know, buying a home and renting, and it's not always possible to do it.
00:24:21
Speaker
you know, where your family are.
00:24:22
Speaker
But I do think if you have a good relationship with your family and friends, the decision to move away from them should not be taken lightly, especially if you are a woman, because like you say, if you have children, it will be your family and friends that will come through for you.
00:24:36
Speaker
And realistically, if you decide to move halfway across the world, you know, it's unlikely that they're going to come out and, you know, be able to visit you as often as they would if you were closer to them.
00:24:48
Speaker
And so I do think that's a really, really good rationalization that you came to when you decided not to move, you know, with your ex-husband.
00:24:56
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:24:56
Speaker
I'm really glad I ended up making that decision.
00:24:59
Speaker
But at that point, I didn't know yet that he was having an affair.
Confronting Infidelity and Divorce Decision
00:25:04
Speaker
Ooh, yeah.
00:25:05
Speaker
If you're ready for that conversation.
00:25:08
Speaker
That was the last straw for me.
00:25:10
Speaker
But it was a roller coaster because it didn't happen in the way that I think TV and movies and the internet, whatever, portrays that it happens.
00:25:19
Speaker
I knew that things weren't really great, but I had zero evidence that there was an affair happening.
00:25:25
Speaker
You know, a lot of times these stories start with like, oh, well, I noticed his habits with his phone were different or he's coming and going late or at different times and he's really distant.
00:25:34
Speaker
Things seemed to be normal.
00:25:35
Speaker
They really did.
00:25:36
Speaker
So I actually had no speculation that there was someone else in the picture.
00:25:41
Speaker
He started traveling more for work.
00:25:43
Speaker
So that's also how he was able to hide it really well.
00:25:45
Speaker
He was able to come home and just turn it off and things were normal and fine.
00:25:49
Speaker
But he was actually sleeping with a co-worker during these conversations.
00:25:52
Speaker
that were out of town so that I would have no idea so he actually came clean to me but in that weird narcissist way it was to try to make him look better you know like look at me being honest kind of situation rather than like oh you still did something really shitty like he still wanted me to throw him a cookie for being honest gosh
00:26:14
Speaker
I mean, so you said that that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
00:26:18
Speaker
But I guess, you know, it's like one thing finding out that your husband who up until this point you had your niggling reservations about, but you weren't entirely sure that this was just his character.
00:26:30
Speaker
Or maybe you did.
00:26:31
Speaker
You just decided that actually, yeah, like that this was it.
00:26:34
Speaker
But basically my question is, you know, what was the process between you finding out about the affair and you just deciding to bounce and finding FDS?
00:26:43
Speaker
So it was definitely hard because, again, going back to the whole culture situation, you know, divorce was a dirty word.
00:26:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:26:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:26:55
Speaker
It wasn't even really in the forefront of my mind to do that.
00:26:59
Speaker
My first initial thought was actually more leaning toward, well, how do we work this out?
00:27:04
Speaker
How do we move on from this?
00:27:06
Speaker
It took me a little while to actually accept the D word in my life, which is just another thing.
00:27:12
Speaker
case of that cultural misogyny surrounding me.
00:27:16
Speaker
I really internalized a lot of things about myself at that time.
00:27:19
Speaker
I thought, what's wrong with me?
00:27:21
Speaker
Right?
00:27:21
Speaker
Like, why am I not enough?
00:27:23
Speaker
Why did he seek out someone else?
00:27:25
Speaker
What am I doing wrong?
00:27:26
Speaker
I had to do so much work to realize that it really was not about me.
00:27:31
Speaker
Obviously, when someone has an affair, it says way more about them than it is about you, right? 100%.
00:27:37
Speaker
I'm glad that I've been able to talk to other women about that.
00:27:40
Speaker
Like, hey, you know, you could be literally the wife from Satan and that still doesn't give him the right to go stick his dick in someone else.
00:27:48
Speaker
So he can man up and come to you about the problems instead of chasing it down with someone else.
00:27:55
Speaker
But it took me a little while to get there.
00:27:56
Speaker
I'll admit I had to do some of that unlearning, that deprogramming, you know, to get there.
00:28:02
Speaker
But once I did get there, I just took a day off work and drove around to different places.
00:28:07
Speaker
attorneys in the area and I filed.
00:28:10
Speaker
Slam that paper down.
00:28:12
Speaker
I mean, honestly, I think at that point, there's just no... Did she do the Nicole dance of victory when she left the courthouse after divorcing Tom Cruise?
00:28:20
Speaker
Honestly.
00:28:20
Speaker
Yeah, I realized there wasn't anything left to work on.
00:28:26
Speaker
He was just adamant that, you know,
00:28:29
Speaker
she's who he wanted to be with.
00:28:31
Speaker
I'm like, all right.
00:28:32
Speaker
Sometimes the finality of something like a divorce is so freeing because it's better sometimes to just, I don't know, go ahead and shoot that horse rather than trying to keep it alive with like duct tape and whatever have you, you know, smelling salts.
00:28:46
Speaker
It's just sometimes it's just better to go.
00:28:48
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:28:49
Speaker
And I hadn't gone to church in a while.
00:28:51
Speaker
And I thought maybe I should try to go back to church.
00:28:54
Speaker
And I went and everyone around me was
00:28:56
Speaker
like, well, let me pray for your husband to come back.
00:28:58
Speaker
And I'm like, I don't want your husband to come back.
00:29:04
Speaker
How did I know that was going to happen?
00:29:05
Speaker
I was like, the last place you want to go when you get divorced is.
00:29:09
Speaker
That's just like praying for the illness to come back.
00:29:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:14
Speaker
You prank me to be sick again.
00:29:15
Speaker
What is wrong with you?
00:29:17
Speaker
Trying to ruin my life.
00:29:18
Speaker
Oh,
00:29:19
Speaker
But to be honest, even though it's disappointing that that was the church's response, but there are so many marriages in churches that are literally like hanging by one of Jesus's beard heads, like, and they just can't bring themselves to separate.
00:29:33
Speaker
And you can tell because they get up every Sunday, like, if we're not for the grace of God, I wouldn't be here today.
00:29:38
Speaker
And at some point you want to be like, maybe you should just wrap this relationship up.
00:29:42
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:29:44
Speaker
Literally, it's actually really, really sad.
00:29:47
Speaker
Just like how many, you know, marriages that are abusive or should have ended years ago in the church that are just still struggling on.
00:29:53
Speaker
And I think a big part of it is that stigma in the church that you shouldn't be getting divorced, like divorce.
00:29:58
Speaker
You could just pray the problem away.
00:30:00
Speaker
The church will excuse literally anything.
00:30:03
Speaker
They always want to, quote, reunite marriages, even if that guy's a rat bastard and does horrible things to you.
00:30:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:09
Speaker
But here's the thing, though.
00:30:11
Speaker
If we're going to take the Bible at face value, right?
00:30:13
Speaker
You know, let's just say, you know, we're at a Christian gathering, right?
00:30:16
Speaker
Even Jesus found cheating so deplorable that he gave that as a legitimate reason for divorce.
00:30:21
Speaker
So it's like, if even Jesus said that, basically bin the partner who's cheating, then why are you telling me not to?
00:30:29
Speaker
It's just, I've never understood the church's tolerance for cheating because of that.
00:30:34
Speaker
Like, even Jesus thought it was so whack that you might as well just call it a day.
00:30:38
Speaker
But then you get people in the church saying, yeah, we'll just praise you to get back together.
00:30:42
Speaker
Stupid!
00:30:43
Speaker
Yeah, it really is.
00:30:44
Speaker
I was like, what about me?
00:30:47
Speaker
Like, what about the person here in front of you trying to move on with her life?
00:30:52
Speaker
Are you telling me there's nothing else for me besides this
00:30:56
Speaker
scrote like you don't understand so that really actually helped me I'm glad I did that because it almost gave me the ick you know what I'm saying so I think I have that moment that really helped me heal when I realized oh okay like I'm not the crazy one here
00:31:13
Speaker
You're in church one day and you're like, oh, wait, these people are crazy.
00:31:16
Speaker
Then you sort of back out slowly.
00:31:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's definitely how I felt.
00:31:21
Speaker
For sure.
00:31:22
Speaker
For sure.
00:31:23
Speaker
You know, even where my workplace at the time, I still felt like I couldn't say a whole lot about my personal life.
00:31:30
Speaker
It's just I didn't know anyone like me.
00:31:33
Speaker
I didn't know anyone that was 25, 26, already getting a divorce when a lot of people around me hadn't even been married yet.
00:31:40
Speaker
So it felt isolating at times.
00:31:43
Speaker
kind of felt like I had that scarlet letter on me at times.
00:31:47
Speaker
There were definitely moments where I would cry thinking, well, who's going to want to date me?
00:31:53
Speaker
Like, am I just this used up trash?
00:31:55
Speaker
Again, that internalized misogyny that like a woman's worth is her, you know, her purity and all that kind of crap.
00:32:02
Speaker
That was really hard to work through.
00:32:03
Speaker
And I'm not going to say it was quick.
00:32:05
Speaker
It took a while to unlearn some of those thoughts.
00:32:08
Speaker
It's hard.
00:32:09
Speaker
I mean, even for myself, like I can identify with you on that level.
00:32:12
Speaker
It's like because you get so many messages about everything you can do and be wrong as a woman in the time you're very small.
00:32:20
Speaker
It's all in relation to like what men want.
00:32:23
Speaker
They never really give you space to even figure out what you want.
00:32:25
Speaker
So then your mind is always clouded with all the things that are wrong with you.
00:32:28
Speaker
It's actually a really huge problem in the way women are socialized, but especially in like religious communities.
00:32:34
Speaker
Definitely.
00:32:35
Speaker
I think there's people who meant well at the time when they were saying things like this to me, but I don't think they realized how it came across when they would try to encourage me like, oh, well, you're so young, like you'll find someone else really easily.
00:32:48
Speaker
And I'm like, again, but why is it about finding someone else?
00:32:51
Speaker
Like, why not?
00:32:52
Speaker
Like, look at all these other things you can do in life.
00:32:55
Speaker
Why is it about having to find someone?
00:32:58
Speaker
Yeah, definitely.
00:32:59
Speaker
And especially when, you know, you were definitely the victim in that situation.
00:33:03
Speaker
But even if you weren't, like, again, there's this also perception that women just, you know, no part of marriage is willy nilly, even though statistically, they are the ones to
00:33:13
Speaker
you know, to actually file for divorce.
00:33:15
Speaker
But if you look at the actual reasons behind divorce, like, you know, nobody, you know, marries, you know, to get divorced from somebody.
00:33:22
Speaker
So if that does happen, you know, something's seriously gone wrong somewhere in the pipeline.
00:33:27
Speaker
And especially given the messaging that women receive and that we should be constantly forgiving, or that if we get divorced, like you said, that we're seen as, you know, washed up, used up goods.
00:33:36
Speaker
It just doesn't make any sense that a woman would jump in and skip into the courthouse to file the papers.
00:33:43
Speaker
even if that would be warranted.
00:33:45
Speaker
At least that might not be their reaction initially to divorce.
00:33:49
Speaker
Right, because it goes back to that idea that successful relationships are the longest lasting ones that stay together forever kind of thing.
00:33:57
Speaker
That's not really true.
00:33:58
Speaker
There's people that have been together for 50 years as miserable as I'll get out.
00:34:02
Speaker
This is kind of a side note, but totally related.
00:34:04
Speaker
Yeah, we have to come up with different metrics for successful relationships, right?
00:34:08
Speaker
Because there's just a lot of relationships that are chugging along that maybe should have ended a long time ago.
00:34:13
Speaker
And when you look at other types of relationships,
00:34:15
Speaker
like acquisitions, mergers, or anything where you see two people come together for a common united goal.
00:34:21
Speaker
Like it's sometimes the length of time doesn't matter so much as like the outcome of it, right?
00:34:26
Speaker
But I feel like we have no like objective markers of what a good marriage looks like, because if we actually start talking about that, then people would realize a lot of people are in bad marriages.
00:34:37
Speaker
And so I feel like that conversation has been really stifled, especially in the religious community.
00:34:41
Speaker
Like what does it actually look like
00:34:43
Speaker
when it's successful.
00:34:43
Speaker
Sometimes they kind of skirt over it and say things like, oh, you'll know it by the fruit of the tree.
00:34:48
Speaker
Or man, it's been so long.
00:34:49
Speaker
I can't remember all the quotes, but it's something like that, about how that will look like.
00:34:53
Speaker
But so often, they just focus on pushing marriages together against all common sense that and then just like, you know, spackling over all the problems with like shiny platitudes, right about like what marriage is like, oh, marriage is hard or marriage is difficult.
00:35:06
Speaker
And I think we just have to
00:35:07
Speaker
We'll have to do the work of unpacking that and then finding actual real measures like, hey, is this a good relationship?
00:35:13
Speaker
What does that look like?
00:35:14
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:35:15
Speaker
And sometimes even relationships that end, you know, you can still call them successful if you walked away gaining something from it.
00:35:23
Speaker
So I would say even in my case, it blew up in the way that it did.
00:35:27
Speaker
But I felt success in that because I would not be able to do the things I'm doing now had I not
00:35:35
Speaker
been in that relationship you know as much as I wish I could turn back time and change things I had to go through that to know what I know now it's one of those kind of situations and something I forgot to mention too part of what made me want to file so quickly was because he actually got the other woman pregnant and the church folk tried to get you back together with him after that wow that just put a whole other layer of bullshit oh man fuck every single one of those people yeah Jesus is rolling in his tomb like legit
00:36:04
Speaker
People actually tried to tell me, but children are a blessing and they're a gift from God.
00:36:09
Speaker
And I was like, no, oh, no, no, no.
00:36:12
Speaker
They can be a gift to them.
00:36:14
Speaker
Not to me.
00:36:14
Speaker
It's not a gift to me.
00:36:16
Speaker
Like, no.
00:36:17
Speaker
A gift has to be wanted.
00:36:20
Speaker
Not that I'm trying to get you to accept your husband's side babies.
00:36:23
Speaker
Like, are you serious?
00:36:25
Speaker
The thing is, I 100% believe you, having grown up in the church.
00:36:28
Speaker
Like, none of this surprises me, but it's still shocking, but it's not shocking, but it is shocking, but it's not shocking, you know?
00:36:37
Speaker
Yeah, not that I'm saying it's hurtful, but nothing gives you the ick quicker than seeing your husband's baby registry with another woman like that just really blew my mind.
00:36:48
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sorry for that.
00:36:50
Speaker
That's such trash.
00:36:52
Speaker
Yeah, so that helped me move on, though, because I think that really gave some finality to it.
00:36:57
Speaker
Like you said, you know, there was just no way in hell I was going to accept this baby into my life like ever.
00:37:03
Speaker
So okay, bye.
00:37:05
Speaker
And you can't tell me that's an accident, right?
00:37:07
Speaker
You can't say Oh, I made a mistake.
00:37:08
Speaker
Like, that's not a mistake.
00:37:10
Speaker
A whole human being.
00:37:11
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:13
Speaker
That's a choice you made.
00:37:14
Speaker
You didn't accidentally stick your dick in her and ejaculate in her.
00:37:18
Speaker
Like, that wasn't a mistake.
00:37:20
Speaker
That was a choice.
00:37:21
Speaker
So I hope that also gives any women out there listening, and if there's any women that are either already divorced or contemplating one in the middle of one, you feel like you want to do it but you're not sure, I just want to give that encouragement because there's just so much stigma out
Empowerment Through FDS
00:37:39
Speaker
there.
00:37:39
Speaker
You know, the world really doesn't want to see you succeed.
00:37:42
Speaker
And I know it's so hard, but I promise you the opportunities on the other side are so much better than anything you can imagine staying with a Scrody man.
00:37:51
Speaker
Amen.
00:37:54
Speaker
That was quite the rollercoaster ending to that married Kristen.
00:37:58
Speaker
So as a newly divorced woman who stumbled across FDS in the wild, what was that process like for you?
00:38:05
Speaker
Almost having, I guess, like a straight talking, you know, female only space, basically...
00:38:12
Speaker
exposing men and relationships and I guess to some extent feminism and how it affects dating and, you know, marriage and all our interactions with men.
00:38:22
Speaker
Like, what was that process like?
00:38:23
Speaker
Because at least for me, it wasn't just a case of, yeah, I agree with, you know, what these women were saying.
00:38:29
Speaker
It was actually a process to be like, yeah, these women are right.
00:38:32
Speaker
Yeah, I would say I was searching for the wrong thing at the time because I was mentally wearing the label of divorcee, you know, and any advice that you find online for divorce typically is for older women with children type thing.
00:38:49
Speaker
And I'm not saying that's not great advice and needed, but there wasn't a whole lot out there for 20 somethings.
00:38:54
Speaker
And it was great to find a space that had all ages of women that were really all helping each other, regardless of where they were in their timeline of their life.
00:39:04
Speaker
So I really applaud you guys for that.
00:39:07
Speaker
I realized, too, so much of us had the same questions.
00:39:10
Speaker
So much of us had the same struggle.
00:39:12
Speaker
When it came to dating, we were running into men that were displaying the same behaviors.
00:39:18
Speaker
And it's so nice to have that space to just be candid and open about it.
00:39:22
Speaker
That's the power of those female-only spaces.
00:39:24
Speaker
the thing that, you know, they don't want us to have.
00:39:27
Speaker
It really was great.
00:39:28
Speaker
It helped me realize I didn't have to wear
Navigating Dating with a New Perspective
00:39:30
Speaker
that badge.
00:39:30
Speaker
I didn't have to have so much shame.
00:39:32
Speaker
You know, men really are looking for the low value, security type dudes are looking for something.
00:39:38
Speaker
I didn't understand how to separate that from what an actual high value man looked like.
00:39:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's totally by design because I feel like I'm continuously rephrasing this, but it's like it's so important.
00:39:52
Speaker
And I feel like it's really like the nugget of FDS.
00:39:54
Speaker
It's like all of this conditioning we have is to make us exploitable and not be able to hold men accountable for anything.
00:40:01
Speaker
And so it's like, of course, it's so hard to then like to completely change how you feel about yourself and your environment.
00:40:08
Speaker
And it's either like you internalize it when you find it out and feel like, why didn't I know?
00:40:12
Speaker
And why would I like this?
00:40:13
Speaker
Or you just get like explosively angry at the world.
00:40:16
Speaker
I chose the latter, by the way, if anybody could tell.
00:40:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:21
Speaker
You're just like, fuck all y'all.
00:40:24
Speaker
But it's a totally natural thing.
00:40:27
Speaker
I'll let you guys know, but it's like on the other side of that anger at some point when I get there.
00:40:30
Speaker
But it's such a process.
00:40:35
Speaker
And so it's like finding the compassion for yourself and understanding like it's not your fault.
00:40:39
Speaker
Like that's just the way that society structures for a long time.
00:40:42
Speaker
And now that you have the knowledge, you can now empower yourself to make different decisions.
00:40:46
Speaker
Not doesn't mean it's easy.
00:40:47
Speaker
But it does mean that like, hey, at least you aren't in your 50s with a couple of kids, you know, also raising your husband's outside baby now Googling about what to do after divorce.
00:40:57
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:40:58
Speaker
Because that is some women's lives as well.
00:41:00
Speaker
And like, I mean, no joke, that was, you know, my great grandmother's life, quite frankly, but she didn't have a lot of options back then.
00:41:06
Speaker
No, I think I really like that point you made.
00:41:08
Speaker
And I just hope there's some encouragement here for any younger women that might be listening.
00:41:14
Speaker
Listen to the older women, like get out sooner.
00:41:17
Speaker
It doesn't typically get better when they show you their true colors like that.
00:41:21
Speaker
Take it for what it is the first time and save yourself and move on.
00:41:26
Speaker
Yes, yes, indeedy.
00:41:28
Speaker
Oh, so again, just to the final section of the episode, I would like to know more about your dating experience once you had FDS and you got over the gaslighting from the church and the gaslighting from wider society that tells women if we divorce that we're failures and what it was actually like when you decided to get back out there again.
00:41:50
Speaker
Yeah, it took a little while to build up the courage.
00:41:53
Speaker
I realized I didn't really know how to date.
00:41:56
Speaker
So it was a skill I had to practice.
00:41:59
Speaker
I had to go on several bad first dates.
00:42:02
Speaker
I had to learn how to not get too attached too quickly.
00:42:06
Speaker
You know, I think there was still a layer of that internalized misogyny that I had to make it work with somebody.
00:42:13
Speaker
So the sooner the better.
00:42:15
Speaker
I didn't want to have to race with time.
00:42:18
Speaker
I realized, oh, I am in the driver's seat here, right?
00:42:22
Speaker
The world doesn't want to make you believe that.
00:42:25
Speaker
So once I really got into that mindset of like, oh, okay, I am in the driver's seat with this, you know, gosh, these men out here are just so thirsty.
00:42:34
Speaker
Like, it's crazy to me.
00:42:38
Speaker
So when I realized how much power I really had in this dating process, it really changed the game for me.
00:42:45
Speaker
And that must have felt like such a shift from when you first started dating and during your first marriage as well.
00:42:51
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:42:53
Speaker
It really was.
00:42:54
Speaker
I realized, okay, now I know what kind of characteristics a high value man has.
00:43:00
Speaker
And if you don't even have those initial basic things, I'm not giving you my time.
00:43:05
Speaker
My time is valuable.
00:43:07
Speaker
You know, access to me is so valuable.
00:43:10
Speaker
So you really have to be
00:43:13
Speaker
above par to get that and you know they keep saying the bar is in hell all the time and it's like well I have to raise it for myself like sorry dude you know you want me to go 50 50 on this sorry like there's another guy who's not gonna make me do that yeah yeah and so I mean did you ever disclose your past relationship to the men that you were dating
00:43:41
Speaker
Not initially.
00:43:42
Speaker
No, I didn't want to be judged by that.
00:43:46
Speaker
I really wanted them to get to know me for me first.
00:43:49
Speaker
And then I would disclose it.
00:43:50
Speaker
But I also had to remind myself like, well, if that's the reason they don't want to be with me, then they weren't for me anyway.
00:43:56
Speaker
So I let them get to know me a little bit first.
00:43:58
Speaker
I mean, not for like forever, but let me vet you out initially first a little bit.
00:44:03
Speaker
So yeah, any guy that would judge you for getting divorced after your ex husband completely had another family on you is a piece of crap.
00:44:13
Speaker
Like, I feel like that's unequivocal.
00:44:15
Speaker
Well, see, I'm glad you said that, Ro, because that's what you would think.
00:44:20
Speaker
But you know what these men, some have said, it's like, oh, well, I'm a bad picker, or what'd you do to make them step out on you?
00:44:27
Speaker
It still turned back on me like it's my fault.
00:44:29
Speaker
So that was actually a good screener, you know, a good vetting strategy for me.
00:44:34
Speaker
It's like, oh, if you think that way, then we're not a match.
00:44:38
Speaker
That's pretty insane.
00:44:40
Speaker
Oh, I wish I could say it didn't happen, but it happened quite a bit.
00:44:44
Speaker
The thing is, nothing that they do surprises me.
00:44:46
Speaker
I just like, I'm always, yeah, I'm surprised, but not surprised, but surprised.
00:44:54
Speaker
Like, yeah, one of the guys is like, oh, what did you do to make him go like have an entire other child?
00:44:58
Speaker
Like, I don't know.
00:45:00
Speaker
Like, you know, I obviously didn't condone or know they was doing any of that stuff.
00:45:04
Speaker
So that's crazy.
00:45:05
Speaker
That's just crazy.
00:45:07
Speaker
It really is.
00:45:08
Speaker
You know, I will say the freedom of not...
00:45:12
Speaker
Having him in my life has just improved the overall quality of my life, not even just with dating again, but even personally and professionally, I've been able to level up in many ways.
00:45:24
Speaker
And that's helped me in dating, right?
00:45:27
Speaker
You know, I had to be that high value woman myself.
00:45:31
Speaker
I had to do a lot of work to get there.
00:45:33
Speaker
So I'm really glad I was given that opportunity to do so, so I can be where I'm at now.
00:45:40
Speaker
And that's really, really amazing to hear that, Kristen, and we're glad that FDS could be part of your Level Up journey.
00:45:46
Speaker
And so I just want to touch on something finally before we light the FDS barbecue for your ex-husband.
00:45:53
Speaker
in that you mentioned at towards the top of the episode about child development and that's the field that you work in so we have several FDS members who have children in your professional opinion what would you say is I guess the best way to I guess I'm more directing this towards the members who are perhaps raising sons and also you can give advice to
00:46:17
Speaker
for the women who are also raising daughters as
Parenting for Relationship Equity
00:46:19
Speaker
well.
00:46:19
Speaker
But basically, what is the best way to raise children from a child development point of view so that, you know, relationships between men and women are more equitable in the future?
00:46:30
Speaker
I think that's a great question.
00:46:31
Speaker
And my biggest piece of advice for parents to remember is, you know, even if they are going to school and they have teachers, that the parents are the first teachers.
00:46:39
Speaker
And whatever you see in the home is
00:46:41
Speaker
is actually going to stick with that child much longer than whatever they're exposed to at school, right?
00:46:47
Speaker
Home is their, you know, education that's going to stick with them, the things that happen in the home.
00:46:53
Speaker
So if you are not modeling those types of behaviors and expectations in your home, they're likely not just going to magically learn it by the time they're 18, right?
00:47:03
Speaker
So if you have those kinds of expectations and wants and desires for your child, you have to model it at home.
00:47:09
Speaker
Thank you so much for that insight, Kristen.
00:47:11
Speaker
That's really, really good advice.
00:47:12
Speaker
And I do feel sometimes that there is a lot of pressure on teachers to almost be everything to students, I guess, partly because parents are so stretched out in today's economy and society.
00:47:24
Speaker
But ultimately, yeah, and we also, that sort of ties into a bit into our episode on
00:47:30
Speaker
the pop psychology behind attachment theory.
00:47:33
Speaker
Not so much attachment theory itself, but more the fact that the environment that children grow up in is just so important for their general development in life.
00:47:43
Speaker
It really is.
00:47:44
Speaker
And I'll just throw this in there.
00:47:46
Speaker
So post getting my graduate degree, I started working as a diagnostician.
00:47:52
Speaker
So my specialty now is actually diagnosing different disabilities in children.
00:47:57
Speaker
Oh, wow.
00:47:58
Speaker
Wow.
00:47:59
Speaker
So I work mostly with things like autism disorder or dyslexia, other learning disabilities and emotional disturbances and things like that.
00:48:07
Speaker
I will say I see so often with parents, the dynamic between mom and dad is just so different.
00:48:14
Speaker
And I just not to scare anyone, but, you know, having a child with a disability is just always on the table, right?
00:48:19
Speaker
It's not something that
00:48:20
Speaker
you can control.
00:48:21
Speaker
And so it is so important to really vet out these men to make sure you have a good partner because you don't know what kind of needs your child may have.
00:48:29
Speaker
And it is so, you know, single mom, single dad or not, it's challenging.
00:48:34
Speaker
And so you have to have that support system.
00:48:37
Speaker
And so often I just see it fall so much on mom and dad can be the macho type that doesn't want to admit that something's wrong with their kid.
00:48:45
Speaker
So
00:48:46
Speaker
Please, ladies, like vet out these guys if you want to have children and make sure they're actually going to be a dad that's supportive of no matter what the needs of that child are.
00:48:54
Speaker
I think that's so, so important.
00:48:56
Speaker
And yeah, you're right.
00:48:57
Speaker
I think that when people think about having children, it's assumed that everything will be okay.
00:49:04
Speaker
And when statistically, as my surgeon once said, like, you know, someone has to draw the short straw in life when it comes to things like disabilities, and it could be you as well.
00:49:15
Speaker
So I think that's a really, really important conversation to have early on.
00:49:18
Speaker
And also to observe what the guy says as well, because a lot of guys will say, yeah, I'll be there.
00:49:23
Speaker
I'll be a great dad.
00:49:25
Speaker
in reality that just doesn't happen you know but there are ways to vet for I think that could possibly be a future episode but there are better ways to vet for whether a guy could or would be a suitable parent yes so right I think if that's everything we are now on to the barbecue
00:49:45
Speaker
Okay.
00:49:48
Speaker
That's like lighting.
00:49:49
Speaker
The Kristen's ex on the FDS barbecue.
00:49:51
Speaker
So did they have the baby, by the way?
00:49:54
Speaker
They did.
00:49:55
Speaker
And she had two other kids from another baby daddy that she wasn't married to.
00:49:59
Speaker
So he went from zero to three very quickly.
00:50:04
Speaker
Oh, that's going to stretch the budget.
00:50:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:08
Speaker
Besides that, though, can you think of any other scrotey story to share?
00:50:15
Speaker
I'm sure I have plenty.
00:50:16
Speaker
Just one comment to throw out there if you guys want to get a mental picture of the ick.
00:50:19
Speaker
He liked to wear cargo shorts with flip-flops.
00:50:27
Speaker
I'm just throwing that out there, ladies.
00:50:28
Speaker
Like, just run.
00:50:32
Speaker
Run.
00:50:33
Speaker
Run.
00:50:34
Speaker
That's such an American image I have.
00:50:37
Speaker
And it's just not a good one.
00:50:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:40
Speaker
We had two dogs at the time.
00:50:42
Speaker
And he actually tried to take the dogs from the divorce and the divorce papers.
00:50:47
Speaker
But not both of them.
00:50:48
Speaker
Only one of them.
00:50:49
Speaker
He wanted to take the boy dog and leave me the girl dog.
00:50:52
Speaker
So I was like, on what?
00:50:54
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:50:56
Speaker
He really didn't make any sense.
00:50:58
Speaker
It's baffling to me.
00:50:59
Speaker
What an absolute loser.
00:51:02
Speaker
I know.
00:51:05
Speaker
I know.
00:51:06
Speaker
Just, yeah, I think the cargo shorts and flip flops, I don't know about you, Roy, but that just said it all for me.
00:51:12
Speaker
And the mental image I have of him right now was not a good one.
00:51:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:51:15
Speaker
I just find that when the men I've seen, when they wear cargo shorts, they don't fit properly.
00:51:22
Speaker
And like men's bodies are not the most.
00:51:25
Speaker
I'm trying to be diplomatic in how I say it.
00:51:27
Speaker
I don't really know why, because men are never diplomatic when they're tearing them to shreds.
00:51:31
Speaker
But it's just like it basically exposes too much of their backside because it just doesn't fit properly.
00:51:38
Speaker
Right?
00:51:38
Speaker
He criticized my appearance, though.
00:51:40
Speaker
Like, he would try to get me to look or dress a certain way.
00:51:43
Speaker
And I'm like, look at you, dude.
00:51:44
Speaker
Like, what are you doing?
00:51:46
Speaker
Yeah, that was why I was trying to be diplomatic, because it's just not a nice mental image.
00:51:51
Speaker
And their crusty feet hanging out as well, and flip-flopped.
00:51:54
Speaker
I do think we need to normalise just calling men out on their looks and poor sense of fashion.
00:52:00
Speaker
Because I don't know where half of them get the brass neck from.
00:52:03
Speaker
But unless they dress like they have tailored outfits and there's no plumber's crack and they actually look like something out of the 365 DNI, even though the movie was shit, but the men dressed well.
00:52:18
Speaker
they can shut the fuck up about appearances.
00:52:20
Speaker
And even if they do dress like that, they can still shut the fuck up because they shouldn't be commenting on women's appearance in a negative way.
00:52:26
Speaker
But at least I'll give them a bit more leeway to speak if they come correct themselves, if that makes sense.
00:52:32
Speaker
Especially the way men talk about women's looks.
00:52:35
Speaker
It's like nobody's ever pulled a mirror out on you and just read you for filth.
00:52:40
Speaker
That's the reason why you have this misplaced confidence.
00:52:43
Speaker
Agreed.
00:52:44
Speaker
Also, one last little roast, if you'd like, before we wrap up.
00:52:47
Speaker
While I first started going back to grad school, he almost got this tinge of jealousy that I was going to be more educated than him.
00:52:56
Speaker
So then all of a sudden, he needed to enroll in grad school also.
00:53:00
Speaker
And yeah, but then get this, he didn't finish.
00:53:03
Speaker
And now I am a professor at the university that he didn't finish from.
00:53:10
Speaker
Oh, congratulations.
00:53:12
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:53:14
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:53:15
Speaker
What a loser.
00:53:16
Speaker
Gosh, what a loser.
00:53:17
Speaker
You are well read.
00:53:19
Speaker
And I imagine school's expensive in the US, so he literally enrolled in school just to be able to stick it to you.
00:53:28
Speaker
He couldn't even do that.
00:53:29
Speaker
Yeah, no, he couldn't handle that.
00:53:31
Speaker
So God forbid his wife is educated and has career prospects.
00:53:35
Speaker
Yeah, I'll say a silent prayer for her because, boy, that doesn't sound like a good person to be shacked up with.
00:53:44
Speaker
You know, she probably thinks that she found a good one.
00:53:47
Speaker
So.
00:53:50
Speaker
But thank you so much, Kristen, for sharing your story with us today.
00:53:54
Speaker
It's been really, really insightful and funny.
00:53:57
Speaker
Thank you for having me.
00:54:00
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show.
00:54:02
Speaker
Yes, I really appreciate everything that you guys do for women all over.
00:54:07
Speaker
It's so wonderful having this female space.
00:54:10
Speaker
And I owe you guys a lot for the growth and things I've been able to do.
00:54:14
Speaker
So thank you so much.
00:54:17
Speaker
Oh, thank you.
00:54:18
Speaker
Thanks so much.
00:54:19
Speaker
That's our show.
00:54:20
Speaker
Check us out on thefemaledatingstrategy.com if you want to discuss this episode.
00:54:25
Speaker
Also check us out on Patreon, patreon.com forward slash female dating strategy on X, which I think only Savannah is still on there right now because I've just abandoned that dumpster fire.
00:54:34
Speaker
Oh gosh, that app is blackpilling me by the second.
00:54:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:40
Speaker
Or on Instagram at underscore the female dating strategy.
00:54:44
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens.
00:54:46
Speaker
You'll find a man that doesn't wear cargo shorts and flip-flops.
00:54:49
Speaker
Ladies.
00:54:50
Speaker
Bye, guys.
00:54:52
Speaker
Bangity bang.
00:54:53
Speaker
Yes.
00:54:55
Speaker
Die mad.
00:54:56
Speaker
See y'all next week.