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Manipulation in Relationships
224 Plays2 years ago
Ever wonder how to tell if someone is manipulating you or if you’re just reading too much into it? In this episode Julie explores what exactly manipulation is, how to recognize where it falls on a spectrum, and potential ways to work for healthier relationships when it’s hard to express needs.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Outside of Session' Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to Outside of Session. I'm your host, licensed clinical social worker and therapist BFF, Julie Hilton. We're gonna cover all the things here, whether it's mental health, entrepreneurship, relationships, trauma, or just life, nothing is off limits. Hopefully you'll laugh a little and learn a lot, but most importantly, feel encouraged on your journey to live empowered.
Episode Topic: Identifying Manipulation in Relationships
00:00:33
Speaker
Hey everyone and welcome back to another episode of Outside of Session. Today we're going to be talking about something that was requested through my Instagram and that is how to identify manipulation in relationships. So we are just going to jump right into this because I'm excited about this topic. So to start with I want to point out that most people I think when they initially hear manipulation they think about
00:00:57
Speaker
romantic relationships, but I want to keep in mind that it is not just with partners that we see a lot of manipulation, right? Like there are a lot of friendships that can be extremely manipulative with parents, with even with our children, our boss, our co-workers, our siblings, like manipulation and relationships happen across the board.
00:01:19
Speaker
I think people are just more aware or they're trying to work through potential manipulation and romantic relationships, but keep in mind like you can apply this to any relationship in your life.
Manipulation Across Different Contexts
00:01:31
Speaker
So let's start by thinking about actually what is manipulation and how the first point I wanna make is that we honestly all manipulate things around us every single day and that in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing. So thinking even about like there's a term called data manipulation, right? Like if you work in marketing or like there's lots of fields where it's called data manipulation,
00:02:00
Speaker
And that's part of the job, right? So I actually looked up the definition and it's just the process of organizing data to make it more understandable. So it's still manipulating the data because you're pulling certain pieces out that you want to show. So it is it is manipulating it, but it's because you are trying to prove a point or you're trying to organize it to make it more understandable. And I think that that's a really, really good definition for even in our personal lives, too, is that a lot of times it's just organizing things in a way that you want someone to see them.
00:02:30
Speaker
So even the fact that you know how they say that there are three sides to every story, there's mine, yours, and then the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Like that's even evidence of manipulation, right? So if you're thinking about like couples therapy, if there's a couple in front of a therapist and they're talking about like a fight or an issue that's come up or a situation that happened recently,
00:02:56
Speaker
Both, both parts of the couple are probably going to have their side of the story. And the thing is that they usually really, really believe that what they are saying is the full truth. And a lot of times we don't even recognize that we're manipulating pieces of it as we tell the story. But again, like the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.
00:03:19
Speaker
When they're telling that story, they're basically like organizing that information in a way that conveys their point and in a way that works in their favor, right? So again, it's not necessarily done with really bad intentions, but you're definitely picking up on your experience and sticking only
Understanding the Spectrum of Manipulation
00:03:38
Speaker
with that. Like it's not completely factual, right?
00:03:42
Speaker
So again, manipulation is not black and white. It's not always terrible either. And it's not like this blanket rule of no one should ever manipulate anything because that would be a very like robotic world where only ever the facts were important and really wouldn't allow for any opinion or emotion or experience in.
00:04:05
Speaker
So an example of this is, okay, so my sister, I have an older sister. She's like my best friend. She is a master storyteller. Like she is just one of those people that when she tells a story, it is over the top. It's hilarious. Like she's just a natural entertainer, you know? But when she's telling a story, she is manipulating because she's adding
00:04:31
Speaker
emotion and opinion and drama and suspense and like all these details. And it makes for really, really good entertainment, right? So she's not, she's not lying. She's not saying anything that didn't actually happen. Like she's not a con person. But when she's telling me stories, she is definitely painting a picture of an event. Um, she's literally creating what she wants you to see for the sake of entertainment, right?
00:04:59
Speaker
And her intentions are not bad and neither are the results. So you have a story that's been manipulated, but again, that's not a bad thing because it didn't hurt anyone. Like it's adding for entertainment, right? So
00:05:14
Speaker
And I just am pointing that out because I think a lot of people don't realize that even on a certain level that is manipulation and that intentions aren't always bad. But typically when we're talking about manipulation, we're talking about something completely different, which is where the intentions are really, really like evil, right? They're really bad.
00:05:34
Speaker
Um, that's usually what we think of when we're talking about manipulation. So think of, um, like Harvey Weinstein, right? Like extremely horrible behaviors that are only about getting what they want and it's done in a very, very abusive way.
00:05:49
Speaker
But that's also why it can be so hard to identify manipulative tactics in a relationship because they might not be to that level. Like that is what, if that's what we think of as like the ultimate manipulation when it's really extremely abusive, most of us aren't dealing with that in like our personal relationships, hopefully. Um, but if that's what is labeled as manipulative, it can be really, really hard to gauge. Well, this person next to me is not doing something that bad. So is it manipulated manipulative or not?
00:06:20
Speaker
So I want you to think of it more of like a spectrum where on one end of the spectrum, you've got my sister who's completely innocent and doing it for like entertainment purposes, no harm, no foul. And on the other end of the spectrum is just straight up abuse, right?
00:06:35
Speaker
Most people are trying to identify where a person in their life kind of falls on the spectrum and how close it is to abuse so that they can name it is that so they can say okay something needs to change this is not okay.
Roots of Manipulative Behavior
00:06:47
Speaker
It's just not as easy as saying is this manipulation or is it not or is this person manipulating me or are they not because a lot of times they are and
00:06:57
Speaker
it's okay to label it manipulation, but work through it, not necessarily just run from it. So, and I say that because
00:07:06
Speaker
This is another really important point. It's for most of us, because again we all use manipulation at some point, most of us we do it because we don't know how to directly ask to get our needs met. So usually there is an underlying assumption that either your need won't be met if you just ask for it, or you've had a history of people that asking for your need met actually became really painful because they told you that your need was the problem.
00:07:34
Speaker
or that they didn't want to need it, they didn't want to meet your need, or you even got punished for having the need. And so when you've never just been able to ask for it to be met and it happened, you have to learn to manipulate the person so that they'll do it without just coming out and asking for it.
00:07:53
Speaker
So again, like as a kid, if you got that your need was too much, which is something that I see a lot with it with like abusive parents or neglectful parents, you get this message that your need is too much where you still have to get the need met, you just learn to ask for it in different ways than coming out and
00:08:10
Speaker
just straight up asking for it. So I saw this post a couple of days ago or a while ago. I don't know if you guys follow the angry therapist on Instagram, but I love him. He's got a lot of like really good therapy stuff, mental health stuff on there. And he made this post that said, when we grow up in a family that didn't tolerate direct, open and honest communication, we learn to manipulate things in order to get it done.
00:08:36
Speaker
This can look like passive aggressiveness, offering unsolicited advice, using shame and blame to control, influencing others through favors and attention, playing the victim. And when I read that I was just like, oh my gosh, that's so spot on because those are all really manipulative behaviors that honestly a lot of us do and a lot of us have experienced. So I want to just kind of go through some of those.
00:09:02
Speaker
So first of all, like using guilt to get someone to do something that you want, that is definitely manipulative. People do it all the time because it's using like shame or blame to get them to behave differently or change their course of action.
00:09:19
Speaker
I noticed that a lot of times moms do this. They'll say things like if you're an adult child and your mom says something like, oh, you never come to see me. You don't have time for me anymore. You didn't appreciate everything I did for you when you were a kid.
00:09:37
Speaker
Like that is manipulative because what she's feeling in that moment is, Hey, I really miss you and I wish you would come see me for her. But for whatever reason, she doesn't feel like she can be that direct with you and just say like, Hey, can we come up with a plan for us to spend more time together? Because that's, that's something I really need right now. She can't express that need. So she's using guilt, try to get you to come around more without just straight up coming up and asking for it. Right?
00:10:04
Speaker
And that's not just moms. That's like an example of how people use guilt. People use that all the time, right? Um, another one is passive aggressiveness. Usually what's going on with that person is they're either angry or they're hurt or they actually need to set some kind of boundary for themselves. But again,
00:10:22
Speaker
They don't have the ability to do that. So they use passive aggressiveness to try to get your attention or get you to do the thing that they wish they, that they have been hurt by, right? Passive aggressiveness is very unproductive. Very rarely does it actually change the other person's behavior. Like it just adds a lot of tension and frustration and resentment and relationships.
00:10:44
Speaker
But really and truly passive aggressiveness is saying like, I have been hurt and I don't feel like I can come out and tell you that because it might be dangerous, it might, you know, trying to avoid a conflict. And so they're passive aggressive with it.
00:10:59
Speaker
Another one is playing the victim. Probably what they're needing in that moment is some kind of comfort for their pain or for their pain to be validated or maybe they even need help and they don't know how to ask for it. So by playing the victim, they're getting some kind of need met, right? Like they're getting either the attention or the support because they don't know how to just come out and ask for it.
00:11:23
Speaker
Um, to add to the list that he had posted there, I'm also going to add, um, one thing that I see with a lot of the women that I work with is we develop this like hyper independence and sometimes that can be used in a manipulative way. So if, if someone lets us down and I say us because this is, I've
00:11:45
Speaker
definitely gone through phases of this in my life too. So if someone lets us down and disappoints us or drops the ball, instead of going to them and saying like, I was really depending on you and it hurts that you didn't do what you said you were going to do or something like that.
00:12:00
Speaker
Instead, I say, fine, I'll just do it myself from now on. And that is manipulative because instead of again, like addressing the actual issue there, you're saying I won't depend on you anymore, which is kind of like withholding love from them.
00:12:16
Speaker
Another one is if you're trying to use any kind of like reverse psychology on someone because essentially you're trying to act like you're asking for one thing to get them to do another really like that's really manipulative. Gaslighting just in general is manipulative right like everything about it you're telling someone
00:12:36
Speaker
else their experience is wrong or that their feelings are inappropriate like a wrong reaction that 100% is manipulative. Even things like giving the silent treatment to someone or withholding love, affection or sex. Not talking about them when sex doesn't feel safe with someone but when you don't want to address the real issue so you withhold a need of theirs to punish them for not meeting a need of like an emotional need of yours.
00:13:06
Speaker
Even using I've even seen people use like therapy in a manipulative way like telling someone you need therapy That can be very manipulative because what you're essentially saying is you are the problem You need to go get help and it's not said in a loving way like it said in a very manipulative way. I
00:13:25
Speaker
but also people use their therapy in a manipulative way. They'll say things like, well, my therapist said you're totally wrong in like an argument or something. I talked to my therapist about this and they said that you're completely out of line for doing this. And that very rarely actually happens. Like a therapist doesn't usually say to a client, you're 100% wrong and your partner is, or you're 100% right and your partner is 100% wrong because we know we're only getting one side of the story, right?
00:13:56
Speaker
So those are just a lot of examples of how manipulation shows up in relationship.
Impact of Trauma and Identifying Patterns
00:14:02
Speaker
Um, someone else asked,
00:14:06
Speaker
when I said on Instagram that I was going to be doing this podcast, someone asked, how can you tell if you're being manipulated or if your trauma is just coming up, making it hard to be really vulnerable in relationships at all? And I feel like trauma can either make you completely unaware of manipulation because you've lived with it for so long and never had the skill of being able to separate yourself from hurtful people.
00:14:31
Speaker
And so you kind of stay in that cycle people with really for a really long time of being manipulated and you can't even tell or your trauma will make you hyper aware of other people's manipulative behaviors. And it makes it really hard to tell where they are on that end of the spectrum because sometimes people with a lot of love for you do these manipulative things because of their own issues coming up, right? And you need to be able to work through it with them rather than just respond or go into fight or flight mode.
00:15:02
Speaker
So what I would say is if you're trying to decide in some relationships where the manipulation falls on this like spectrum of innocent versus like really abusive, the first thing to do is to look for patterns of behavior. So asking yourself questions like was this a one time thing or is this is a constant way that they approach problems?
00:15:24
Speaker
Do you notice that they do this with other people as well? Like is this a pattern in their life that they have just built up? So I would say definitely look at like, is this a normal thing that is happening in your relationship quite frequently so that you can assess, okay, like this is a problem because it happens quite often. They make me feel this way pretty often.
00:15:43
Speaker
Number two is I would say right where you would put this on the scale if there were this spectrum by asking yourself questions like what was the consequence for you or how hurtful or devastating was it and that's something where you have to really really go internally to say again like is my trauma being triggered right now or is this more abuse happening in front of me right?
00:16:07
Speaker
And the third and probably most important thing is to gauge if someone is willing to talk about what behavior you're concerned about or what you're questioning and see if they have the capacity to explore why they didn't feel safe in that moment to come to you directly and ask for that need to be met.
00:16:24
Speaker
Because for a lot of people it is their trauma coming up or their background And maybe you can actually help them through that and teach a new pattern of having like a safe safe place in a relationship So that can look like you know gauging this person to say I really feel like some of your behaviors are really passive aggressive towards me and I'm Wondering if that's because you feel like if you just come out and ask me directly for something that I'll be upset with you or that I won't I
00:16:52
Speaker
want to talk about it won't want to make your needs met and Actually talk to them about
00:17:01
Speaker
If there is a lot of love in that relationship that you do want to meet that need, you don't want them to have to be passive aggressive for you and see if you can have healthy communication on how they can come to you and tell you when their feelings have been hurt or when you disappointed them and that's causing them to be passive aggressive and see if you guys can learn how to face the problem like head on.
Addressing Manipulative Behaviors
00:17:24
Speaker
And if they're willing to have some of those hard conversations, even if they're having some manipulative behaviors right now, there is potential that you can work with them on it so that they can release some of those fears that they have and you guys can have a more healthy way of talking about things. But another thing to remember is even if it comes from a place of it's like their stuff showing up, making them be manipulative or passive aggressive or giving you the silent treatment, whatever it is, you also have to remember that
00:17:55
Speaker
Even though they are having a hard time asking for their needs to be met, which means that you can have a lot of compassion for them about that, you can still only do so much of the work for them. So even if you know that it comes from a place of their own pain and you have compassion for them, if they are willing to change the behavior and it's toxic for you to experience, even if you know that their intentions aren't necessarily evil, like they're not trying to abuse you, they're just having a hard time getting their needs met,
00:18:20
Speaker
you if they're not willing to do some of that hard work and work on that communication, you may still have to set a really uncomfortable boundary with them.
00:18:32
Speaker
And finally what I'll say is that it is always a good idea not to try to figure this out alone but that is a great reason to have a therapist and have like an unbiased party on the outside be able to sort through some of that so that you can tell for yourself like is this my trauma coming up that's causing me to have a really hard time being vulnerable with this person?
00:18:51
Speaker
Or is this really something that I need to pay attention to and we either need to have some hard conversations and work on fixing this or set a boundary and that could look like potentially leaving a relationship or cutting people out of your life depending on again where it falls on that spectrum.
00:19:07
Speaker
So those are my thoughts when it comes to manipulation in relationships. If you have any questions or thoughts that you want to add to this, make sure that you leave a comment below. Do me a favor and like this podcast, share it with your friends so that it can reach more people and we'll talk to you next time.
Conclusion and Resources
00:19:26
Speaker
Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Outside of Session. Remember, while I am a licensed therapist, this podcast is not a substitute for individual therapy. The contents of this episode are for educational and entertainment purposes only. If you are having a mental health emergency, please dial 911 for immediate assistance or dial 988 for the suicide and crisis lifeline.