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EP165: Billou & Arpa - Why Men Get Stuck In The Seeking Success Stage
89 Plays2 months ago
Have you ever wondered why so many men remain stuck in their pursuit of success, constantly rebelling against their past or blaming others for their struggles?
At some point, many men find themselves grappling with unresolved issues surrounding their upbringing, especially the influence of their fathers or father figures. Whether it's idolizing, resenting, or competing with them, these feelings can shape a man's path to success—or derail it entirely. If you’ve ever found yourself stuck, feeling like you're spinning your wheels while blaming your past, you’re not alone.
While it’s common for young men to challenge authority and seek their own path, this phase is meant to evolve. When it doesn’t, men can find themselves trapped, pointing fingers at their fathers or external circumstances for their lack of success. The episode delves into how this lingering resentment and refusal to take full responsibility can hold men back. We discuss the shift from rebellion to ownership—what it takes to stop blaming the past, take control, and create a life defined by personal responsibility and true achievement.
You’re invited to come to a Sovereign Circle meeting to experience it for yourself. To learn more, go to https://www.sovereignman.ca/. While you’re there, check out the Battle Ready program and check out the store for Sovereign Man t-shirts, hats, and books.
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Transcript
Father as Hero: The Bonding Stage
00:00:00
Speaker
The stage is where the father can do no wrong, right? Basically, he's the boy's hero. We call it the hero stage up, that's right. What comes next, Art? Competition. And then his dad's an asshole who doesn't know anything and the boy wants to be in charge of everything. He doesn't want to take advice from his father, doesn't want to learn from his father. And a man can't achieve success without taking those life lessons, learning from his father and using that to his advantage. Because it's ah you know it's it's an ugly world out there.
00:00:33
Speaker
You're a man living in the modern world in a time when men and manhood are not what they once were. You live life on your own terms. You're self-sufficient. You think for yourself and you march to the beat of your own drum. When life knocks you down, you get back up because in your gut, you know that's what men do. You're a badass and a warrior. And on the days when you forget, we are here to remind you who you really are.
Introduction to Sovereign Man Podcast
00:01:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Sovereign Man podcast, where we aim to make men masculine again. I'm your man, Nicky Baloo, and I'm here with my man, Rob Arpa. What's up, Art? Not much, brother. This is like is like the evening edition, because normally we we record in the mornings, and now it's ah's quite late.
Father-Son Relationship Dynamics
00:01:29
Speaker
Yeah, it is. it is it is So we wanted to talk today about the stages of the father-son relationship and specifically about a particular stage in the father-son relationship called Fuck You Dad. So when a dad has a son, the first stage is where the father can do no wrong, right? Yeah. Basically, he's the boy's hero. We called the hero stage up, that's right.
00:01:58
Speaker
And this stage normally lasts anywhere from like eight to 12, 13 years, the first eight to 12, 15 years of a boy's life. And um it's a wonderful stage for a father. Gets to bond with his son, gets to teach him. It's pretty darn amazing. But it doesn't last forever. What comes next, Dart? Competition.
00:02:26
Speaker
Yeah, this this is the phase where we're boys start to compete with their father ah for for the attention of their mother. um And it's it's it could be anything. could Could start with simple things like, I don't know, board games. um And then it's a you know escalate sports or other games. And then it's ah's a whole like, look at me kind of thing, where they're trying to grab that you know their mom's attention away from their father.
00:02:55
Speaker
Yeah, it's understandable. Yeah, it's normal. And normal. And normally this is kind of like the teenage years of a boy, right?
Rebellious Stage of Sons
00:03:06
Speaker
And then after that comes the fuck you dad stage, right? and Yeah, i think I think there's another term for it, but yeah, that's what we call it. Well, let's call it the fuck you dad stage. I think it's ah it's a good name for it.
00:03:22
Speaker
um Yeah so the fuck you dad stage is when the boy is Gone beyond competing with his dad and his dad's an asshole who doesn't know anything and the boy wants to be in charge of everything his own life But a lot more than that doesn't want to take advice from his father doesn't want to learn from his father wants to fully break free from his father's influence and This too is a normal stage It is, it's actually found it's in nature all the time, right? Like the young line will will compete with the with the the headline for for control of the of the pride, right? You usually get into scraps and then one of them has to leave. And normally this is a situation that men deal with in their late teens and twenties.
00:04:17
Speaker
Right? Late teens, 20s. This is the normal situation. But it should be done by the end of a man's 20s. Really. Should be done. But in this day and age, this stage, in the case of some men, can be extended by a decade or even more beyond that. And I'd like you to talk about that because we know some examples of this in our own.
00:04:46
Speaker
life, ARPA, you and I, some individuals we deal with. So talk about this, why you think it's happening. I mean, we're obviously not going to um name names or violate confidentiality. No, no, no. so I think it's important and salutary for men to understand why there are men who should be past this stage that are not.
Accountability and Success
00:05:09
Speaker
ah i think I think the the The reason men are getting stuck at this phase yeah is because like the the phase I believe is is really called the seeking success or their or gaining success phase. And if a man doesn't achieve success, now he's stuck. He's stuck in this, in this, in this, you know, fuck you, I'll show you phase, right? I've come across men who, you know, they've,
00:05:39
Speaker
they didn't get past this phase even after their fathers have passed, which is, which is, is sat on both accounts, man. But yeah, it's a seeking success phase. And there's, I don't know, man I don't know if it's just the the economical you know, ah landscape out there, or if it's just if it's just men, you know, addicted to boyish behaviors where they seem to stop seeking the success and as their primary you know factor, like the one thing you're you're supposed to do as a man in life is seek success. ah And until you achieve success, you can't can't really get out of this this phase.
00:06:19
Speaker
And I think, I think that's what it is because those men that we always encounter that are still in that phase, they lack success. Yeah. They lack success. And when a man lacks success.
00:06:35
Speaker
he He doesn't take responsibility, he assigns blame outside of himself. He doesn't take responsibility with any assigns blame without. And the blame that he assigns without is to his father or to father figures. So they don't actually have to be a father, they could be father figures. Would you explain that for the men?
00:06:58
Speaker
So I think, I think that's the other thing too, that, uh, you know, I noticed being, being in this work and, you know, just talking with so many men is that, uh, some men can project the image of their father onto another man just because the two men may be perceived in a similar fashion. Right. So me, me, you know, father's tend to be very, uh, firm and, and, uh,
00:07:28
Speaker
not so accommodating. And when a man reaches, and you know, is headed on with another man that may may be so in a similar fashion as his father, gets into that, you know, fuck you, I'll show you, you know, type head space. And it it sucks.
00:07:49
Speaker
It does. Yeah. And
00:07:57
Speaker
What happens is they put so much energy into the fuck you thoughts and emotions that it takes away from the energy they could be putting into attaining success. Yeah. The other the other challenge too is the is the the you know the fuck you mentality.
00:08:19
Speaker
ah takes takes you know a discussion away from being constructive to more of a destructive type mentality, right? That's where you start getting a little boy, and say I'll take my ball and go home and no one can play. And that's that's something that is a you know an often reoccurring theme with these men that are stuck in that phase. you know If they don't get their way,
00:08:43
Speaker
They'll take their ball and go home, you know, sad little boy, sad little boy. And interestingly enough, yeah we you and I, we've, we've witnessed this recently. Right. Um, and, uh, the issue of frequently, actually frequently, right. And the issue is these, these men chronologically are older. They're in their late thirties or even early forties.
00:09:11
Speaker
And you would think they are well out of this phase, but they are not. They lack success in their lives. they ah They are painfully aware that they lack success, but they are unwilling to look in the fucking mirror and take ownership for their lack of success. And instead, they are lashing out and blaming.
Avoiding Responsibility and Stagnation
00:09:34
Speaker
And it's painful to watch as an outsider, it's painful to watch.
00:09:42
Speaker
ah yeah it's It's not a very comfortable place to be, especially as, as you know having gone through it, you can you know we can see the the the answer as a man, but you know the old ladage, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force it to drink. And and you know that's that's kind of where where we get, right? I know it you know in my my respect, like I'm almost felt left with like ah like a helpless feeling, because like and I could give you answers, but you may not want to do that.
00:10:19
Speaker
and you know it's big you know One common theme is is you know men men placing blame, which again is is very boyish behavior. and Another one too is men holding on to this this like ah like a boyish daydream you know that they had. you know like ah like it's It's pretty healthy for a boy that's you know seven years old to want to be a fireman, but like if you're you you know in your 30s and you're still trying to become a fireman, it might be time to.
00:10:54
Speaker
realize maybe that's you know not not in the cards for yeah you. know so Something along your life, you've changed routes, pass the time to go back.
00:11:08
Speaker
And again, how many men do we know that are holding on to these childhood dreams? It's like, Sometimes you need to let that shit go. You missed your mark. yeah You know sat on the couch instead of doing the work when you should have, and now you're trying to make up for it. and You can't can't go back. Time goes forwards, not backwards. You can't go back. Time does go forwards. It does not ever go backwards. you know Opportunities that you chose not to take for whatever reason.
00:11:41
Speaker
um They may not come around again, but other opportunities do come
Living in the Present for Success
00:11:46
Speaker
around. A man has an opportunity to create success at any phase of his life. I mean, look, Colonel Harlan Sanders, man, was in his late 60s when he started um Kentucky Fried Chicken, right? He got in his car with his recipe and he drove from restaurant to restaurant and he offered it to a thousand places before someone said, okay, yeah, I'll take it. ah and He had other careers. And if he had tried to go back to make any of those career failures be something else, a success, he would have failed again. It could have never worked. But he came up with a new opportunity. And these men that are stuck in the seeking success, fuck you, dad phase. That's their problem, is they're living in the past. And you can't live in the past. You can only live in the present. And the present needs to be informed by a future that you're looking to create.
00:12:42
Speaker
And if you have failed so far to create success, to attain success, really the thing you need to do is to sit down and come up with a new plan. Yeah. You know, that that's all you can do. That's all you can fucking do. And if you do that, you're golden. And if you don't do that, you're fucked. Simple as that.
00:13:08
Speaker
Like, I don't know what, what you know, Sanders' position was back when he was trying to sell that recipe. I'm assuming at the age of 60. He was broke. is he probably sixty s He was in his late 60s, not even 60. Oh, wow. And he was broke. But you have only he had a dream and he went forward. Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:36
Speaker
But you know, a man that's like, if you're, if, if the man's in his mid to late twenties, it's like, like I understand having a dream, whatever that may be, but you know, that dream could be a side hustle, not a full-time venture. Like a man should be able to pay his bills or or suffer the
Defining True Masculinity
00:13:56
Speaker
consequences of it. Right. Okay. Most important thing a man can do is to pay his bills. Yeah. He's got to be able to pay his bills.
00:14:06
Speaker
pay his bills and have a little extra at the end of the month. yeah if If you're not doing that, you're you're dependent, you're you're a child. You are. It's sad. It's the sad truth. It is. It truly is. There is no other way to succeed in the world other than to to sit down and understand that you must pay your bills. You must take care of yourself. And you if you're going to have a family, you got to take care of your family. That's a man's job. That's a man's job. That's a man's fucking job.
00:14:54
Speaker
ah he If he can't do that, he's not a man. And these men that are stuck in the seeking success phase, when they're in their 30s and 40s, start taking responsibility for your life, apologize to your father, and go create some success for yourself. I don't even think a man needs to apologize to his father. The one thing a man, you know, ah the one thing a father would always want for his son is is that he he hes um He becomes a man who can stand on his own two feet and take care of himself and his family. you know so if if you know Anyone that listens to this podcast, if you you want to make your father happy, go out there and and and seek and achieve success.
00:15:34
Speaker
And that's, that's the, that's like the the best thing you can do for your father. Cause you know, the phase after that is, is the whole immense phase that's coming back and you know thanking your father for all the life lessons and all that stuff. Right. And a man can't, can't achieve success without taking those life lessons, learning from his father and and using that to his advantage. Cause it's a, you know, it's it's an ugly world out there. My father passed away and I'm very sad about that. And there's a lot I regret about the last years of his life and my inability to be with him ah because God, every time I went to see him in that home, it just fucking crushed me and broke me. But what I am really, really happy about is that I sat with him and I thanked him for making me the man I am today. And he he was very
Financial Independence and Responsibility
00:16:28
Speaker
moved by that. He got emotional, he cried.
00:16:32
Speaker
And for these men that are stuck in the seeking success fuck you dad phase, I got a message. Look in the mirror, stop blaming your dad, take ownership for your bullshit, and make a decision that you're gonna fix your life. You're gonna make money, you're gonna pay your bills, you're not gonna go out there seeking money from other people,
00:17:00
Speaker
You know, from your dad, you're gonna pay your own fucking bills. That's your job. That's it. That's it. Go out there and do what you need to do. Whatever it takes. Get out there. Make sure your ass is covered. We as men need to get away from this. Feminazi inspired.
00:17:28
Speaker
lack of responsibility that seems to have overtaken far too many men since yeah the early to mid 1960s. It's nuts. And and you know kids are at such a disadvantage when when parents break off in these single parent no homes. They're they're at ah such a disadvantage. um And it's it's it sucks. It's ah not great.
00:17:58
Speaker
ah You know, it's interesting. think these These men that you and I have encountered recently, both of them, ah it's it's more than two of them, but ah two of them at least come from single parent families. That makes sense. That kind of yeah shows us why they're in this space. But even if you come from a single parent family and you're a man, you should put yourself in a place where you can learn from other men.
Support Systems for Men
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:30
Speaker
That's when you're going to crush it, man. That's when you're going to fucking crush it. Yeah. Yeah. ah And, you know, men need to understand there's a bit of a, to there's a distinction between being with your men and being with your boys. And boys are your friends that the guys are going to go drinking with. They're the ones that you know they they will They will help you justify every addiction you may have. They're never going to tell it to you straight. You want men that are going to turn you and tell you what the truth is, whether whether you like it or not. that's that's the That's the type of support you need. You need those type of men, because that's when you can make
00:19:12
Speaker
real decisions uh in change in changing your life otherwise your boys will just keep you in the same whole shithole for as long as they can because they're in the same place as you are and it does nobody any good the sad thing with you know with this old overly feminized uh you know shit that's been happening since the 60s is like you know the the having men go out and seek that success has been watered down you know the the The gender roles of before were pretty fucking simple, man. It's like man goes out, go to work, whatever that would work looked like. Whether it's attending the farm, building a barn, going in a factory, whatever it needed, whatever the man needed to do to make sure that house was taken care of.
00:19:59
Speaker
then ask come on Yeah, but now it's that's gone.
Overcoming Challenges as Taught by Fathers
00:20:03
Speaker
So what are what are men doing? <unk>re They're choosing to play video games, you know, stay in their parents' space and smoke pot all day long and and do everything opposite other than finding success because it might be a little too fucking hard out there. Fucking life is hard. and Life is fucking hard. Your mother's going to shelter you. Your father's supposed to teach you that it's hard.
00:20:28
Speaker
And it is it's it's not easy. It's hard You know again watch any any anything in nature You know going on the hunt is hard you know a cheetah needs a lot of fucking skill and a lot of speed for it to eat and You know sometimes it gets a kill and something else comes in and bullies its ass away And it's you know a hungry cheetah's got to go and hunt again life is hard But it's not impossible It's very possible. It just needs a lot of hard work and dedication. Well said. Your mother's supposed to shelter you. Your father's supposed to show you reality. yeah That's the facts. And in my opinion, far too many men right now don't understand this. And that's why they're stuck in this seeking success, fuck you, dad face.
00:21:27
Speaker
ye And i I pity those men, I really do. I pity those men. and And to wrap this up, such men are stuck in a boyish face. They engage in boyish behavior. They refuse to accept responsibility within themselves for the life they've created. And instead they assign blame without, outside themselves, and typically either to their father or to a father figure.
00:21:56
Speaker
And if you're going, well, wait a minute, you know not everything in my life is in my control. What about the government? What about the shit that they do and the conditions they create? And all that's true. there There are shitty circumstances created by others outside of your control. But here's the truth.
Taking Responsibility in Difficult Times
00:22:13
Speaker
That doesn't matter. What makes a man a man is even when all the circumstances are against him, he finds a way to win. Even men in communist countries like the fucking Stalinist Soviet Union Russia and Mao's China found a way to fucking win, found a way to survive because they understood that the responsibility for that was theirs.
00:22:38
Speaker
And the folks who fucking abdicated that responsibility and said, oh, well, there's nothing I can do. Well, their life was shitty. yeah And those men, they just weren't able to create a great life for themselves. And they would stay stuck forever in this seeking success. Fuck you, dad face.
00:23:04
Speaker
and it's your job as a man, should you choose to accept it, to move through this stage quickly. Don't fucking constantly be seeking success, attain some success. Does this mean you can't elevate your success and become more successful? Of course not. But you know what it does mean? What it does mean is that you, my friend, you must quickly, accept responsibility for your life, and go out there and be successful. And be grateful that your father gave you the lessons that you needed to start being a man. make it Make it sound so simple. Simple it is. Easy it ain't. Simple it is. Easy it ain't. That's a good one. That's a good way to that's a good way to end the show. And my friend, that's a wrap.
00:24:06
Speaker
Thank you for listening to The Sovereign Man podcast. If you're ready to take charge of your life and become the man you've always wanted to be, we invite you to join the movement at sovereignman.ca.