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110. Seeking Community When Grieving- with Elizabeth Hall
77 Plays3 years ago
Elizabeth Hall is originally from Western NY although her late husbands’s job took her up and down the east coast for many moves before finally settling in North Texas into their “forever home”. She has two amazing daughters from her marriage to Bryan and is now a bonus mom to a third charming little lady who also lost her mom at a young age. Together with her “chapter two” Dave and an adventurous puppy named Archie, this newly-blended family has ample amounts of grit and determination to surf the waves of grief and trauma together.
Elizabeth began dealing with grief years before her fit husband suddenly passed away from a heart attack in 2019…with the death of her mother in 2015. Her mom courageously battled multiple forms of cancer for many years while Elizabeth was in high school, college and beyond. Elizabeth was able to travel back and forth to help both of her parents through this difficult time. It took a few years for Elizabeth to begin to process the death of her mother and whence was finally ready… tragedy stuck again with the death of Bryan.
Now a frequent podcast guest and involved in many grief- groups, Elizabeth has found the best way for coping with her grief is through activism and advocacy of learning how to heal. She hopes her story is able to help others dig their way out of the dark times and understand there will be better days ahead.
Contact Elizabeth Hall: https://www.instagram.com/elizzyhall/
Other podcast interview with Elizabeth Hall and Dave Devine: https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/podcast/episode/c1b58986/50-navigating-new-love-after-loss-with-liz-hall-and-dave-devine
Contact Kendra Rinaldi: https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
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Transcript
The Journey of Vulnerability
00:00:01
Speaker
Becoming vulnerable has been a journey for me, but it definitely has been what has helped me. Even doing podcasts like this, like being able to tell my story and to say it out loud, knowing that I might be able to help somebody else definitely pushes me and keeps me going forward.
Facing Emotions Head-On
00:00:18
Speaker
Another thing is, like I said, just don't stuff it. It does not help. It's gonna come back at some point in time, so why not just deal with it now?
Finding Supportive Communities
00:00:27
Speaker
And I know it's hard to find those groups of people, but
00:00:31
Speaker
Sometimes you just have to put yourself out there to find them. Like, you know, they didn't just come to me. I had to go out there and find those groups.
Grief and Major Life Changes
00:00:49
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:05
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys.
Introduction of Kendra Rinaldi
00:01:16
Speaker
I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:27
Speaker
Thank you for joining us today on this episode of the podcast. I am excited because I got to chat with one of our former guests in the interview we did together. Oh my gosh, I think it's been over a year, I think. Right, I think it's been that.
Revisiting Grief Over Mother's Death
00:01:48
Speaker
That episode was called Navigating New Love After Loss, and it was with Elizabeth Hall and Dave Devine. And today I have Elizabeth. Hi, Liz. Good to have you. Thanks for having me back.
00:02:08
Speaker
I'm so glad you are back. And the reason we are recording another one is that time we talked about mainly the grief and process of you that you had after the death of Brian, your husband. And then that episode is about you and Dave then connecting after each of you had lost your spouses.
00:02:35
Speaker
But one of the things we didn't touch that much upon in that episode was your previous grief experience, which had been the death of your mom. And so today that will be part of the focus of the conversation. So just so that the listeners know, this is like a prequel, a prequel to that.
00:02:55
Speaker
A prequel to the, it's a prequel sequel, whatever, to the other interview. It's a sequel, but it's a prequel because it was something that happened before Brian died. So anyway, so let's chat about you. So Liz, tell us about you, your upbringing, where were you born, raised, and all that kind of stuff. And we'll go from there.
00:03:19
Speaker
Sure.
Picture-Perfect Adoption Story
00:03:20
Speaker
So I grew up in New York, near Buffalo, New York. So Western New York, and I had, you know, the picture perfect life, so to say with, you know, the perfect family, I was actually adopted when I was a day old or two days old. So and then my brother was adopted as well. And we had a great life with, you know, the perfect house and the perfect school and, and everything that you would want. My parents both worked really hard for
00:03:46
Speaker
everything that they were able to give us and you know we had to work hard to earn our own things and it was just a definitely a great life growing up. That's great. Now you live then in New York for how long?
00:04:00
Speaker
So I was in New York until I graduated from college. So, um, Oh yeah. So that is a long time. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're a New York. You're a New Yorker. I am now in Texas. Now, now she lives in Texas. Yes. So people know.
Discussing Adoption Dynamics
00:04:18
Speaker
Is it okay if I ask you, because I didn't know the part that you had been adopted, is that something that we can talk in this episode a little bit as well of that dynamic? Absolutely. Okay, so that's how you were then brought up. How far apart are you from your brother?
00:04:37
Speaker
So he's two years older than me, but they didn't adopt him until he was four. So I was two. So I was technically like an only child for two years and then he came along.
00:04:49
Speaker
Oh, okay. Okay. So then when, so he, even though he's older, you were first in your family. He was in foster care and stuff like that before they adopted him. Okay. So let's just, that I'm curious because I wonder if the memories are even there for you at two when your brother came and having an older brother.
00:05:12
Speaker
join your family. Do you remember anything about that? No, not really. No. I mean, through pictures. Yes. But, um, no, I don't remember any of it. And, um, I mean, as of now, we don't have a relationship at all. But back in the day, um, you know, it was just typical brother sister stuff until he turned, I think it was like high school. Then he started to get himself in trouble and all that fun stuff. But, um, fun, not fun. Not fun. Yeah.
00:05:40
Speaker
It's not fun for your parents or for you. And that's part of assuming the reason of it now being a little different between you guys. Okay. Absolutely. Okay. So did that all occur prior to your mom passing then? Okay.
00:05:59
Speaker
Yes, and you see, guests don't normally know what kind of questions I'm going to ask. So then in that process, too, if I ever do ask something that you're like, I pass, let's not talk about that. We don't have to talk about it because I normally like I'm curious, of course, and I end up asking more than sometimes people want to share. So feel free to sip to, you know, kind of just nip it in the butt by masking something that's too much.
00:06:28
Speaker
Let's talk then regarding then being brought up. When did you find out that your biological parents, do you remember the age you were?
00:06:37
Speaker
And I do not. I remember my mom had a book in her nightstand that was said something. It was like, I'm why I'm adopted or you're adopted. I don't know, something like that. It was the title of it. And I remember seeing it and being like, what? What is this? And then I think my brother knew because obviously coming at four, he knew that my parents weren't his parents. And so I think at one point he might have told me or blabbed about it on the bus. But I always kept it quiet. And I don't think.
00:07:07
Speaker
there was ever like that formal sit down with my parents saying like this is what happened and so on and so forth. So it was kind of just one of those things that like they knew I knew, I knew they knew and we just. You just kind of like just lived on. So then did the question ever arise for you and your teens or early, you know, years about even your, you know, previous, you know, your birth parents and things like that. Did those questions come up? Yeah, so not with not with my parents.
Medical Insights from Adoption
00:07:36
Speaker
my adoptive parents uh but i would have them in my head really just more along the lines of for health reasons yeah i didn't have any interest in meeting my birth mother anything like that i did my the only thing my mom had was because it was a close adoption and
00:07:54
Speaker
Uh, back in the eighties. And so she just had some paperwork from the lawyer that just said very simple things like mother allergic to milk, allergic to chlorine, um, had a previous child who also was given up for adoption. So real basic.
00:08:09
Speaker
And then at one point, I did fill out something for New York State that basically if the birth mom wanted to fill it out, she could as well. And then if there was any sort of additional health information, they would mail it to you. So I did fill that out and I did receive something in the mail, but it wasn't.
00:08:27
Speaker
It was just more information that the state had that really the only thing it told me was that she got her gallbladder out when she was like 22. And ironically, I did the exact same thing. So I was like, that makes sense why I had to get my gallbladder out. So yeah, and I never I knew it would crush my mom to like, even want to explore that. And I had no interest whatsoever. There was always a part of me that was like, Oh, what they're famous or what, you know, like I wanted to know the story, but
00:08:56
Speaker
Yeah. And now that you said that you knew then that there was a previous child, even that curiosity of maybe not necessarily, okay, knowing who the birth parent is, but oh my gosh, I have another sibling out there. I hope I don't end up marrying my brother. Well, the story, the story gets better. Okay. Dig in, dig in. So like I said, I never cared.
00:09:19
Speaker
And then, it might have been before my mom passed away or after, I'm not quite sure, but I filled out the 23andMe, and I also did Ancestry.com.
Discovery of a Half-Sister
00:09:29
Speaker
And that, once again, was just for the health reasons, because 23andMe, you can do the breast cancer gene and a whole bunch of other things. And that's all I really wanted to know. And if you go to the doctor to get any of that done, they won't give it to you. Even if you say you're adopted, they say, well, we don't know your history. More the reason, give it to me. But anyways.
00:09:47
Speaker
they didn't so I filled that out and you know cousins and things like that would pop up and I never I was like okay cool like I might have Facebook stalked them a little bit but never did anything about it and then after Brian passed away so last summer I or probably before summer I received a message on 23andMe from a girl that said she was my half-sister
00:10:10
Speaker
And I was like, Whoa, what is going on? And so we explored that a little bit. And I started talking to her. And she's like, Well, we have to have the same dad because I know my birth mom. And she has said that I'm the only child she's ever had. And, you know, so on and so forth. And so
00:10:28
Speaker
she sent some pictures over and by looking at the pictures I was like uh no that has to be my birth mom because she looks identical to me um so we put it together and then my half sister reached out to uh the birth mom and said you need to spill your guts and she reluctantly still denied and then said oh yeah
00:10:47
Speaker
I had a baby, but I don't remember. And, um, so long story short, uh, without getting into too much detail on that sheet, I have no interest in meeting birth mom. Um, but last summer I actually went back home to Buffalo and I did meet up with my half sister for the first time and that was awesome. And she's, how was it? Yeah. How much difference are you guys in ages? How much different is I think about five years older than me. Um,
00:11:13
Speaker
And she, she's great, you know, she has her own family, and she has older kids than me. And it was just great being able to, you know, chat about our pasts. And, you know, we lived less than an hour away from each other. That is what's so crazy. Yeah, that's what's so crazy. When people like that, like you live like just a block from people that you're, you know, relating, you know, this is up, I've heard this a lot.
00:11:38
Speaker
about these kind of situations. And it's like, wow, we could have ran into each other at the grocery store, things like that before. Yeah, so it's good. So we maintain relationship connection. Yeah, texting and stuff like that. And it's just fun to have an actual sibling, especially where my brother and I don't have that relationship. So it's nice to have a sibling. And it's important too, because especially, you know, Brian,
00:12:06
Speaker
died of what they call a widow maker heart attack. But you never know like to like, you know, you've had already gallbladder removed, you never know a situation in the future of any organ that you know, or anything, blood, you know, things like that, that
00:12:24
Speaker
It's so good that at least you now have that connection, even if it's not emotional, at least you know how to reach your sister and vice versa for her to you. Yeah. And that's exactly why she ended up looking for her birth mom, because her adoptive dad had passed away of a health issue. And she was like, whoa, I need to know my health. And so thankfully, through her, I have an idea now of health and nothing major. So that's coming for the hypochondriac in me.
00:12:53
Speaker
Um, now I have a new, you know, a new relationship to explore. Yeah. And thank you for indulging me in going down this area, which I did not know. Of course, here I am discovering. No, no, no. No, it's nothing to be sorry about. It just shows how, uh,
00:13:08
Speaker
candidate impromptu our conversations are because I'm discovering just alongside the listeners as well. So thank you, Liz. OK, so you then went to college in New York. Tell us about your dynamics and your relationship with your mom. And then when when you got married and those kind of things and and so forth, because, yeah, let's go in there.
00:13:32
Speaker
Yeah, so I went to school in New York. I did go away from home three hours, so nothing too far. I don't have the exact dates of things, but my mom originally was diagnosed with breast cancer in, I want to say when I was in high school, my senior year or junior year, and then it did come back again when I was
00:13:54
Speaker
sophomore in college or a freshman, but both times it was just what they called stage zero, you know, not a big deal. Might've even been from hormone replacement therapy for, you know, menopause and all of that stuff. So they got rid of it. I don't know. I think she just had to have radiation and she worked through the whole thing and it was no big deal.
00:14:16
Speaker
So we had those two hiccups along the way and finished up college and I moved from college, I moved to, Brian had got a job in Connecticut, so he went to Connecticut. I moved back home to do my student teaching for school and then graduated that December.
00:14:37
Speaker
Cause you and Brian were high school. You guys had been together since high school. Yeah. So we started dating a senior year or junior year of high school. And just in case somebody listening, this has not heard your episodes. So then that way they can hear. Yeah. Yeah. We went to college, not together, but close to each other.
00:14:52
Speaker
And now as an adult and I'm able to you know, I've been through all of this grief and and everything like that in my life I'm able to look back at things and realize that when I was in college, I was 110 percent full of anxiety Which at the moment I had I didn't know I just you know felt like I had to be close to Brian and I had and now I look back at it I'm like wow those were like all little mini panic attacks and you've been experiencing anxiety for way longer than you You know you thought you were so
00:15:19
Speaker
Do you think that anxiety did that anxiety come from knowing that your mom like having known that your mom was sick and the anxiety as you're kind of in these developing years of finding out something that you could potentially be terminal but you know kind of living because how many years then does she live with a diagnosis in and out of having breast cancer?
00:15:43
Speaker
I mean, that was 1998 and she didn't pass away until 2015. So right. Oh, yeah. So that's a lot of years. So that uncertainty very well could have been, you know, to this day, I still have a hard time pinpointing exactly what.
00:15:59
Speaker
Caused anxiety. I think you know issues with my brother over the years. I don't think helped the situation and but my anxiety like full-fledged didn't start until when I moved back home to do my student teaching and Then basically when I graduated college and it was like okay Liz life is yours You know it awaits jump on in there and I had to I was supposed to drive to go see Brian in Boston at the time because he moved from Connecticut to Boston and
Longstanding Anxiety Realization
00:16:29
Speaker
getting in the car and driving was no big deal for me. I would drive eight hours at a time, just see you later. But for whatever reason, I just did not want to go. And then I finally ended up going and like two hours in had a massive panic attack on the highway. And the second I turned around to go back to my parents house, I was totally fine. And then I was like, okay, this is an actual issue. So it's ironically, yeah, when I had nothing to really worry about, besides life.
00:16:55
Speaker
is when the anxiety started. But I'm sure some of it probably manifested from my mom's illness for sure.
00:17:03
Speaker
Did you end up seeking, when you did know that that's what you were having, at the point that you did, like, wait a minute, I can't even drive now because I'm having this. Did you seek for help at that moment with your anxiety? Oh, yeah. Yeah. I went home and my mom was like, what is wrong with you? You've never acted like this before. And so she dragged me to some psychologist, psychiatrist. I don't even know. I did not like the man. It was horrible, but I ended up
00:17:30
Speaker
I think at that time I ended up going on a medication and it was able to help me settle my life back. And then ever since then, it's just been kind of ups and downs of anxiety waves, just like grief waves. They go together. But now that you know that that is what it is, just like how we know what grief is, we're like, okay, this is a grief wave and it's coming. And I know kind of how to name it, at least in what's happening.
00:17:58
Speaker
Does it make a difference then now for you when you're having an anxiety or episode or a panic attack? Does it help you knowing that that is what is happening in order to then learn how to kind of cope with it as it's occurring?
00:18:13
Speaker
Absolutely. 100%. I think, you know, over the years, I've, I've done a lot of work on myself really most recently is when I've done the most work and being able to know that, oh, this is just anxiety. And like, you know, I could wake up and be like,
00:18:30
Speaker
Okay, it's a little bit in my chest today. What can I do to get out of it? And then it just turns into the self talk and really just focusing on whether it's meditation or breathing or whatever the case might be just to you know, basically, I'm in control of myself, I have the power to control my day. And how can I get out of this?
00:18:49
Speaker
Okay. So you, you mentioned that this is something more that you've started kind of working on more recently on yourself. So, um, does that, and that's your puppy, your puppy. Yeah.
00:19:04
Speaker
We'll probably hear on both sides. No problem. I'm the same. The little one, the new one is sleeping right now, but the same. I'll have to be like, okay, he might need to go to the... If he wakes up, I'll have to open the door to take him to a poop party. So it's like the things of doing podcasts at home or that of like, oh my gosh, if somebody brings the doorbell, they're going to bark and then that's going to
00:19:27
Speaker
The microphone's going to pick that up. Okay, so then with the, okay, so you were talking about then the, you know, growth on yourself and like knowing then, okay, when you wake up kind of feeling a certain way, because I'm sure to the, well, maybe because you've had those for years, like you don't relate that to thinking that it's something going on with your heart. Do you at any point?
00:19:51
Speaker
I'm really good at that. No, I'm still a hypochondriac in other areas, but I definitely know like, OK, I'm not having a heart attack. I'm not, you know, yeah, I'm good at that part. OK, so then what kind of then work you were talking then about yourself, like kind of like getting yourself out of it. Walk us through that in the anxiety component and let and also share with that. Is that something you also use then in your grief waves as well?
00:20:18
Speaker
Yeah, so what I've learned after, and I know we'll talk about my mom's death still, but what I've learned after, so after my mom's death, I pretty much just stuffed it. It took me a long time to even process it. While it was very expected, which made it easier in some regards, it definitely was way easier for me just to kind
Caretaker Role Post Mother's Death
00:20:43
Speaker
of
00:20:43
Speaker
take on the caretaker mode and make sure my dad was okay and make sure I was still doing everything that my mom would do and want to be done and really just not processing the fact that she was no longer there. And I had a toddler at the time. And so I was a busy person. How old was how old was it? It was Eva, Eva that you had at that. So Eva was how old when your mom died? Let's see.
00:21:10
Speaker
She was four. Yeah. So she was four. Yes. I mean, I was busy and I just, it was, and we kept moving with Brian's job and it was just busy, busy, busy. So I, I accepted it and just moved forward. I guess that, you know, my mom had passed on and, um, it wasn't until
00:21:30
Speaker
probably like October of 2018. So my mom died in 2015 that I, we had moved to Texas and I was, you know, finally we were settled. And I think I was finally starting to digest the fact that she had passed away and things were happening like in my daily life, like I was struggling with work because, and I couldn't explain any of it. Like I was getting behind on emails and just stuff that was not typically like me.
00:21:57
Speaker
The foggy brain, the grief brain.
00:22:04
Speaker
But the problem was I wasn't putting a name to what was happening. And somebody could look at it and be like, oh, well, you just moved to a new city and you're probably sad. And it wasn't any of that. It was really the fact that I never digested anything with my mom. So I remember in October-ish, I bought a couple of books like The Dead Mom's Club and started to really think about going back to therapy and processing all of the death of my mom, essentially.
00:22:34
Speaker
Fast forward then a couple of months later when my husband passes away, which was totally shocking and not expected at all.
Confronting Grief After Husband's Death
00:22:44
Speaker
I learned that I needed to deal with it right away. I couldn't just stuff it. And now I was on my own too. When my mom died, Brian was my rock and he was there for me and comforted me and all of that. And now my rock is gone. So now I have to be my own rock. So I've learned through...
00:23:05
Speaker
this experience that I can't stuff it, you know, I really, and it goes with both grief and with anxiety, I just need to be open and honest with myself and with others around me, and let them know what's going on, let myself know what's going on, being open and honest with a therapist, you know, things like that, in order to process this and be able to move forward. And that's definitely what I've been doing. And it's been eye opening and very helpful, obviously.
00:23:34
Speaker
Wow, no, that is so true. Yeah, I always make the analogy of kind of like a pressure cooker. It's like when you just kind of leave it there. Have you cooked in a pressure cooker before? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you have to let the steam out slowly first before you open it.
00:23:54
Speaker
Uh, and that's, I think what it is with grief, like allowing it to just come out, you know, steam out, you know, instead of just suddenly just popping it, you know, open, uh, like that, right? Cause it is definitely more, and I'm, I'm assuming with anxiety, then it would be the same scenario. Like if you let, let it kind of come in as steam rather than just stuffing it, you won't get like this huge. Yeah.
00:24:19
Speaker
episode per se. Yeah, I agree with that for myself as well. That's kind of what's helped. So you were saying first that your first therapist when you were dealing with anxiety was somebody you did not like so necessarily. Do you did find a therapist that worked for you in that process? No, honestly, no.
00:24:44
Speaker
I can't blame the therapist. I really need to blame myself, too, that I just I wasn't being honest and I wasn't being vulnerable. And I only know this now because I finally found a therapist that I am able to open up to and that I have been putting the work in. And even when Brian first died, the therapist that I was seeing, I thoroughly enjoyed going. However, I realized it was just like chatting with my friend for an hour. I wasn't doing anything to help myself get better.
00:25:12
Speaker
So over the years I've seen plenty of different therapists I'm really good at reading my body and I don't know how to teach others to do that per se But I can really tell when okay. It's time to go talk to somebody or okay. It's time to take medication Oh, you're good. You can get off of it now so over the years I've just kind of dealt with it and you know and had my ups and my downs and when I met someone I needed to and off of it when I didn't need to and
00:25:40
Speaker
So yeah, I didn't, I didn't ever really found the perfect therapist until now.
00:25:44
Speaker
Until now. And the one now, then, aside from the anxiety, then, of course, has helped you more, like, with coping with your grief journey as well. Exactly. Yeah. OK. OK. So now let's fast. Like, my conversations are not linear, as in I say this in other episodes. Like, it's just like grief. It's not linear. My conversations aren't either. My interviews aren't either. So let's go back then to 2015, when your mom passed away.
00:26:13
Speaker
you had already moved to Texas or no, no, you moved to Texas in 2018. So where did you guys live in 2015? Your parents were still in New York. Were you guys in New York? We were in New York, actually, we had lived in Boston, and then we moved to Maryland for a year, which my mom loved that. And there was
00:26:36
Speaker
there was gossip about Toyota moving to Texas. And my mom used to say, if you moved to Texas, I'm going to be so mad at you, like to Brian and whatnot. However, she would have loved it here. But anyways, we were only in Maryland for a year and then we moved up to New York, but we were on the other side of the state. So we were still a good six hours away from my parents. So my mom was able to see that house. They came up in February of that year. So she was able to see it. And then she,
00:27:06
Speaker
Passed away in July of that year. So what had happened is she had the breast cancer twice and then in It was like
00:27:17
Speaker
2012, I think around then, um, she won one day or over time or whatnot, just turned yellow. Um, her skin was yellow. Yep. John does eyeballs, everything. Um, the doctor said she looked like a pumpkin. Um, and it was like, and she's really Italian, you know, rich skin. So it was a unique color, so to say. Um,
00:27:39
Speaker
She was yellow, itchy, and all of that. They were actually at my house when it had happened. She went home, went to the doctor. Long story short, they determined that she had bile duct cancer, which is incredibly rare. They don't think that it came from the breast cancer. It just happened to be a
00:28:01
Speaker
bad luck, but who knows? I mean, it was not a second. It was not the breast cancer spreading. No, they didn't. Yeah. They said that it was not. So I don't know how they can determine that. I would think that it was, but who knows? Um, so in February of 2014, uh, or no. So when she first was diagnosed, they ended up doing this major surgery. It was like 12 hours long, uh, where they essentially went in and
00:28:29
Speaker
it's called the Whipple. I don't know the exact details, but yeah, they went in and rearranged everything and put some stents in and stuff like that. And she was doing fine for a while. And then in, she did chemo, radiation, all that good stuff. And then in 2014,
00:28:45
Speaker
It came back or they found another Basically the stents keep getting blocked kept getting blocked so they found another tumor and then I think it went into the pancreas a little bit and So she fought it so incredibly hard from basically 2012 she did have a couple of good years or you know months in there I should say but then when it came back in 2014 she fought it for a good year and it was a
00:29:16
Speaker
one of the things that she had completed as she was, you know, throughout her journey was somebody gave her a journal. And so she, every day in this journal wrote stuff down and I never read it. And honestly, I still had never read it until this morning. Cause I was like, you know what, I'm going on this podcast. I should probably, you know, check in to see. Are you serious? This podcast was, this podcast interview was the catalyst for you reading her journal entries. Yes. And it's not like part of me wanted it to be very, you know, like,
00:29:40
Speaker
definitely a miserable year.
00:29:46
Speaker
Oh, I love my family and this and that. It wasn't. It was like, I went to the doctor today and my blood pressure was this and I'm tired. It was like a record, her medical record. It really was because she used to joke that, you know, with chemo brain, she couldn't remember anything. So she would come home and write it all down. But there was some good stuff in there like, um, talking about Eva and how much light she brings to her world and how helpful I was. And she was
00:30:09
Speaker
complaining about my dad being a pain in the butt. And so how is it reading it? How was it then reading it this morning? Like so many years later? Yeah, I mean, definitely therapeutic. I'm at a good place right now where it was probably good that I waited so long. I also I have a voicemail on my phone that
00:30:32
Speaker
I've never fully listened to and it was the day before she passed away she had called me to bring her she was in like a rehab type center and she had called me to bring her pajamas or something and it was just it's like three minutes long and i still haven't listened to the whole thing but it's on my phone if i ever want it so
00:30:52
Speaker
Well, you might want to upload it and save it just in case anything. I did. It's not a computer, and I just got a new computer, so I should put it on there too, but yeah. Good, good. Yeah, that's good. You know, the timing with things like that, I feel like when you're ready, like it's going to be exactly the time that you needed it. I've realized that, like I had a book my mom gave me, which was a poems, like poems for my daughter, something like that. She gave it to me years and years and years ago.
00:31:21
Speaker
And after she passed away, like I had forgotten about that book. And I honestly, I don't think I'd read all the poems in there either, you know? And then when she had, like a year after she had died, I like, I went and got, opened the book and read her the, you know, the, you know, when you, how do you, yeah, little message.
00:31:44
Speaker
And it said, you know, read the one on page so that that's the one that and when I read that in that moment on that day, it felt like she like it was exactly what I needed her to tell me that day. Yeah, it was like the it was even though she had written it way before she was even, you know, sick before I even had kids, you know, like a lot. And it was just so perfect. So when you read when you're ready to listen to the whole message, it'll be.
00:32:12
Speaker
the time it needed to be. Thank you for sharing those things because I think that that's important for people to know because sometimes we feel you know people ask like when did you get rid of the clothes of your mom or when did you you know do this or that and honestly everybody's timing is unique to them as to when they choose to do those different milestones. Yeah and that's actually that's one thing I learned
00:32:39
Speaker
It's so silly saying I learned it from this death versus this death. But one thing I learned like when my mom passed away, like I said before, you know, I stepped into caretaker mode, I made sure that like,
00:32:51
Speaker
The funeral was perfect, and everybody, like my brother, you know, his kids had the right clothes, and my mom was always the one who, like, whenever anybody died, you know how everybody brings food to people's houses? My mom always brought cups, paper plates, napkins, spoons, forks, knives, coffee. So, like, I made sure we had all of that, and I still find myself doing that to this day, like, oh, somebody died? Ooh, I'll bring paper plates.
00:33:15
Speaker
They don't have to worry about washing. That's a great tip right there.
Importance of Practical Support in Grief
00:33:19
Speaker
Everybody write that one down. We always think of what casserole should I make? But that's a great idea. Bring the paper goods so that they don't even have to wash for a few days because they may not feel like even putting any dishes in the dishwasher. That's wonderful. Okay, go ahead. Continue. One thing that I did do though is
00:33:38
Speaker
I was only home with my dad for a certain amount of time. I can't remember. I think I was working from home at the time, so I was able to stay. One of my favorite memories of the entire night was, and I'm like not being linear right now either. So when my mom was actually, you know, we had just visited her and then we drove back because Brian had to go back to work.
00:34:03
Speaker
And then I think our plans were to go back the following weekend because we knew it wasn't good. So we're like, we'll just come back every weekend. And my dad had called and said, you know, this isn't looking good. You should come home. And I said, OK, fine. So we jumped in the car and we were maybe three hours from home when my dad called to tell me that she actually passed away. And so then the rest of the car ride was just like, you know, silence. And we didn't get home until probably like
00:34:31
Speaker
at seven or eight or at night. And when we pulled into my driveway, my dad wasn't home yet, but my parents have like this gorgeous deck on the back of the house. And the entire deck was filled with all of my dad's friends, like all of his beer drinking buddies and whatnot. They were all sitting there waiting for him to come home from the hospital. So then when he actually got out of the car and came home, it was just, it was so nice. Like I have goosebumps right now. It was just, it was so nice that everybody cared about him so much and that they all showed up and, um,
00:35:00
Speaker
It made me like feel like okay, you know, I don't have to worry So I don't remember how long I stayed home with him but one of the things that I definitely wanted to help him with was to go through my mom's stuff because she had so much stuff she had a shopping problem just like me and I was like, you know, let me let me help you with this and I Went through all of her stuff and we brought probably like 13 big black garbage bags to Goodwill and all of that and I
00:35:28
Speaker
fast forward to, you know, grief experience. Number two, I was like, I'm not getting rid of any of Brian's stuff yet because I might want to do something with it. And my aunt made awesome bears out of his shirts and things like that for the girls. And I look back and I'm like, I got rid of all of my mom's stuff. Like I saved nothing. I mean, I saved jewelry and stuff like that, but like to have like a bear made out of her shirt, I would love right now. So, you know, word of advice is, well, it feels good to just help and clear it out and feel like you're getting something accomplished.
00:35:58
Speaker
in the same sense, like, don't necessarily do it so fast. So, you know, with Brian's stuff, I did get rid of some stuff, but I moved pretty much all of his stuff from our master closet to a spare closet. And now it's still haunting me, like, just not too long ago. And like you said, you know, when it's time, not too long ago, you know, I said to Dave, I'm like, I need to clean out that closet. Like, it's just
00:36:21
Speaker
weighing on me. And knowing me, I'll probably just put them in bins and put it upstairs in the attic. But then at least, you know, the closet will be clear. So yeah, you know, I got rid of my mom's stuff too soon, so to say, and my dad probably, yeah, my dad probably wouldn't agree because he still calls me and he's like, there's stuff everywhere. And what do I do with this? So what do I do with that? So
00:36:41
Speaker
Yeah, and too soon and before your yeah for what you would have wanted to do as now as you're experiencing and you know the whole thing with the shirts of the bears those are so that's so cute I heard that in one of the episodes of somebody that's what they did with her brother's shirts for her kids like she made those bears and I had never heard of those little memory bears or something like that that's so thoughtful
00:37:03
Speaker
Does Dave still have a closet of his, of his first wives? Sharon, right? Is that right? Sherry's clothes too. So he actually, you know, when I had first met him, obviously, his closet, his house was still untouched.
00:37:21
Speaker
And it wasn't until we started living together that, you know, he ended up renting his house out, but I actually went over and helped him one day because I didn't want him to have to do it himself, but I didn't know what was important and what wasn't important. And, you know, being a typical dude, he's like, whatever, you know, it's, it's, but we did find some stuff. So I went through it and actually
00:37:43
Speaker
picked out stuff that I thought was fun and that his daughter would appreciate one day down the road. So we have a good size bin of, you know, her clothes and my aunt took some of it and made a bear for his daughter too. And so that is so beautiful. And it's so true because then you as a woman and as a mom of two other girls and having you yourself lost your mom, you can relate to what, you know, Dave's daughter is going through as
00:38:10
Speaker
well that you know what will be significant maybe for her as she gets older and so little too so thank you for sharing that okay so when your mom then passed away you went into this mode then of being the one taking care of the things doing the funeral doing this and so forth and the emotions of grief kind of went in the back burner yeah
00:38:35
Speaker
OK, then three years later, when you moved here now, when you moved then to Texas was when Pandora's box kind of flew open. And I know you mentioned that some people say, oh, it's probably because you're sad because you moved. But I'm wondering just when you were saying that, I'm wondering if even the grief of a move opened opened up this other wound of the grief of your mom, you know, because it was like a different space and time.
00:39:05
Speaker
So share with us more than about that. You were feeling kind of foggy brain, things weren't coping. So take us into that and how it is you started to then do your healing process, right? You know, then it was just a year, not even a year, right? A few months late. Six months. Yeah, late. You moved here when in 2018?
00:39:27
Speaker
We moved here in actually December of 2017. We closed it like the end of the year. Oh, 2017. And then Brian died in 2019. Yes. So March. So yes, you're probably right that the move brings grief. However, I was definitely excited about this Texas move because this is where Toyota opened their headquarters. And so it was going to be no more moving. And Eva was at the age she was in.
00:39:56
Speaker
kindergarten or first grade when we moved so she was at the age that we just couldn't keep bouncing around the country. Brian didn't want to do that to the girls. So there was probably something to it that this was like our final destination, at least for you know, long term, that probably brought about some sort of emotion as well that this is where we we are and we're not leaving and
00:40:19
Speaker
We are far away from home. Every other state we've lived in, it's been a quick or quick ish car ride to get home where this was an airplane ride and I hate flying. So that probably played into it too. So I think there was a lot of that going on. I mean, my dad definitely
00:40:38
Speaker
would still come visit and things like that. But I think there was just a lot of that that probably rolled into, okay, yes, we're settled now. Okay, now it's time to think about how you lost your mom and you can't call your mom to tell her about this problem or that problem. And, you know, you're so far away from your dad and you have no friends or family in the area. So yeah, you're probably right. A lot of that piled into it. And I just, I started to
00:41:05
Speaker
I don't know if shutdown is the right word, but usually when seasonal changes come to my emotions get all out of whack. And so it was going into that winter.
00:41:16
Speaker
you know, grab dolls, even though it's still not fair. And it's a real, it's a real thing, like those aspects of quote, unquote, depression, sadness, whatever you want to call it, based on the seasons, a lot of people go through that. So yeah, so then that started to occur.
00:41:35
Speaker
and then i had that going on and i know i remember at work i got in trouble for something and it was just very everything was very unlike me because i'm a keeper people pleaser by nature and you know brian and i had some discussions about it but he was always super busy with his own job and well he you know devoted time to me it was never
00:41:57
Speaker
open communication, so to say. But so a lot of it I dealt with on my own and just really what it probably transformed into was more like different health things like,
Unresolved Emotions in Texas
00:42:10
Speaker
oh, now I think I have this wrong with me, I need to go to this doctor, I should go to this doctor and really rather than just sitting down and admitting, you know, this is what's going on, let's deal with it, I would kind of make excuses up along the way.
00:42:24
Speaker
So when did you actually begin to have that honest look at those emotions? So I feel like it was, like I said, like in that October timeframe, before Brian died, where I was starting to think about it. But then the holidays and all of that rolled around. And, you know, life was stressful with Brian's job and whatnot. So it's almost like I was just starting to touch it. And then life got crazy. And then Brian died.
00:42:51
Speaker
And then it just talked about opening a box like everything that was all of it my whole world fell apart in two hours so
00:42:59
Speaker
Yeah, Liz and I met actually at the CrossFit gym. We only saw each other a couple times. Yeah, it was a couple of times. The day I saw you was they had just done a workout, I think, in honor of Brian. And then you're like, oh, yeah, no, yeah, he's my husband. I was like, oh, my gosh, I didn't even know. We were sitting there, and they were going to do a workout. And I didn't even know that I was talking to his widow when that happened.
00:43:29
Speaker
Um, so when, when then he died, then your, all of these emotions start opening up his death, your mom's death. You have your mom of two young girls in that moment. What were some of the tools then that you used at that moment to help you navigate your grief?
00:43:50
Speaker
Yeah, so I think the biggest thing was just letting people help. I'm definitely a terrible delegator. I like to do everything myself. I was laughing this morning because when I was reading my mom's journal, she actually, I flagged the page, she actually said,
00:44:09
Speaker
Something of, let's see. Well, my dad and I redid her laundry room while she was at home recovering and it was filled with like all of her Tupperware and all of that. And I'm known to just throw things and she keeps everything. And so she said that she was working on her laundry room and I moved all of her stuff around and she tried to help me, but she couldn't and she got so angry.
00:44:30
Speaker
And she's like, I could hardly stand it. And I don't like not being in control. And I was like, Oh, that's me. So I definitely like being in control. But I did learn that when Brian died, that I just had to let others help me. So my, my door became just an open door.
00:44:48
Speaker
My next door neighbor just took over with a clipboard and she started, this is what we need to do.
Learning to Accept Help
00:44:54
Speaker
Other neighbors were bringing food in, they were cleaning my house, and I just sat there and let them help. So that was definitely hard for me to do, but I really had no, no choice.
00:45:05
Speaker
um and then you know really and then asking for help too so my dad he ended up he was in on vacation in florida when it happened and he ended up flying here and he didn't so this happened in march and he didn't leave until july um which i never in a million years i mean my dad and i are close my mom and i were closer i guess just you know that mom daughter bond but i never expected him to stop his life like that and you know come stay with me for that long and um
00:45:34
Speaker
But, you know, I had asked and it happened. So it's just really about being honest. And if anyone could relate to what you were going through was your dad, you know, because he had lost his partner. Yeah. And we've become closer in that regard because he's at times experienced some panic and anxiety now. And, you know, back when I first was having panic, he didn't get it. He was like, just what's wrong with you? Snap out of it. And now that he's had it, he'll be like, oh, I totally understand. I get it.
00:46:04
Speaker
I get it. And so it's it's nice to have that relationship where I can talk and he'll understand. And then same with Dave, you know, Dave's been through stuff too. And so I can talk to Dave and he just he gets it. And it's nice to have those people in your world. And I know it's not always easy to find those people. But I mean, with with all of the growing that I've done throughout this journey, when I surround myself by other widows, it definitely is helpful for me.
00:46:33
Speaker
So the sense of community. So one, if somebody doesn't have within their immediate circle, people like yourself, that you have your dad, that relates to what you're going through, because he also lost his wife. Your partner, Dave, who also can relate to what you've gone through, because he also is a widower.
00:46:58
Speaker
If someone doesn't have that, then the next thing, which you also have, is a group of other widows who relate to what you're going through. So two huge things you said. One is the aspect of allowing others to help you and the other one seeking community.
00:47:18
Speaker
as well for that support. Would there be any other tools? And you mentioned, you know, finding the right therapist, but being honest with your therapist, being honest with your emotions in order for that therapy to actually work.
00:47:35
Speaker
Yes. Most definitely there. I think, you know, becoming vulnerable has been a journey for me, but it's, it's definitely has been what has helped me. Um, even doing podcasts like this, like being able to tell my story and to say it out loud, knowing that I might be able to help somebody else definitely pushes me and keeps me going forward. Um, another thing is, you know, like I said, just don't stuff it. It does not help. It's it's going to come back at some point in time. So why not just deal with it now? Um,
00:48:03
Speaker
And I know, you know, it's hard to find those groups of people but sometimes you just have to put yourself out there to find them like, you know, they didn't just come to me I had to go out there and find those groups and you know like journey of hope that we didn't
00:48:18
Speaker
kind of still sometimes do, um, in, in Texas, you know, it's, it's really just, it's going out and finding your people. And even if you don't have grief people, so to say, I have found a group of friends that just, I'm open and honest with them. And I tell them, you know, this is a crappy day or I had this dream last night and it's just not hiding anything. And that's what I've learned that, you know, life is short. It's not worth it to hide stuff and to, you know, be secretive. And it's just, it's way more
00:48:47
Speaker
way easier like you know like Dave and I we just put it on the table there's an issue let's talk about it you know and I'm upset about something because I'm sad about something like let me tell you why I'm upset and it just it makes life so much easier I love it that way I you know what you're saying right now I just got chills because you mentioned right before like how even though with Brian you know when your mom died like you he was there but not you guys wouldn't necessarily talk about emotions the fact that now
00:49:15
Speaker
the woman that you are now, having been through these two experiences, how different you are, like, you know, that growth of like, now what you're saying, now you just share everything, all this growth that has occurred, because of these experiences and how different it makes it feel in your, in your body, do you find that you are less anxious?
00:49:40
Speaker
Now in general, do you feel that the anxiety is different as you now maybe share more about your emotions? So I mean, it's definitely not a walk in the park. I still have to constantly remind myself and Dave will remind me too and my friends will remind me that I have grown and this is how far I've grown and I'm doing a
Acknowledging Growth and Ongoing Grief
00:50:00
Speaker
great job. Because there are still plenty days and moments where I'm like, like, I, you know, I'm
00:50:07
Speaker
not at rock bottom, but I'm falling, you know, and I'm not, though, I'm definitely moving forward. You know, in terms of anxiety, that definitely comes and goes. I would say this fall, I definitely fell, again, in terms of the just the really probably more with the depression and, and the anxiety revolved around
00:50:33
Speaker
uh, losing Brian and my mom, I'm sure as well. And it just, it morphs into me not wanting to have to drive anywhere. And the second I know that that happens, like I don't want to get in the car and drive that I'm like, okay, time to switch gears and attack this before it becomes a bigger problem. So I've been working on that and really, you know, outside of medication, things that I have
00:50:58
Speaker
found helpful that I once used to stick my nose up at is meditation and yoga, although I haven't been doing yoga, but meditation and moving your body. You do. Yeah, you do. Yeah, exercise. Yeah, exercising, meditation, really just finding time to put time into me versus
00:51:18
Speaker
being that person who takes care of everybody else. It's just like they say, you have to put your oxygen mask on first when you're on the plane. Same thing. If I don't fix me first, then everybody else who I'm trying to grow or work with aren't
00:51:33
Speaker
going to grow. So I've been doing the meditation, I have also been working on just really setting up a routine and habits. So I'd like to do every morning, I'll wake up and I have a book that I'm reading, and I'll work through one chapter of the book, and I rotate, whether it's like a self help book, or, you know, whatever kind of book. So you know, the kids go off to school, I make my tea,
00:51:56
Speaker
I meditate, I read a chapter of my book, and then that really just sets my mind frame up for the day. I'm still working on the working out portion. I got to get better with that, but it'll get there. It's awesome. No, these are great tips. I'm writing them down because, you know, even again, like even if I may have some tools that have helped me, it doesn't necessarily mean that those same tools might work for someone else. So it's always good to learn
00:52:25
Speaker
from others would work for them in case someone else I know is going through something, you know, sharing, well, this works for my friend Liz, you know, it might work for you as well, or, you know, things like that. So thank you for sharing that. Now, in this journey of grief, going through the death of your mom, and then that of the death of Brian, how was it for you
00:52:54
Speaker
helping your daughters in their grief journey of the loss of their parent since you had lost a parent. So, I mean, honestly, I feel like I'm failing at it on a daily basis. First off, by the way, thank you, you know, Liz, for being so honest, because we always all feel like parents. We always feel like we're failing. Yeah, I have my good days and bad days, but I feel like a lot of times
00:53:22
Speaker
There's more I could be doing. Because it's one of those things where they were young. Eva was seven. Emmy was a baby. She has no recollection besides pictures. And Eva, I always just, she's my little rock. She's tough. We give her a hard time. She's not the hugging type. She's kind of a little rough around the edges. But then I say to myself,
00:53:46
Speaker
I'm like, well, wait, well, is she not that way because she's put up her shield and she really wants to be hugged and she really wants to be able to talk about things. So, you know, I go back and forth with it. Um, Dave is great with being able to help me, you know, figure out what she's thinking and where she is. Um, we did have some, I did have therapy for her initially, um, after Brian died and she graduated out of it.
00:54:13
Speaker
However, just recently I've noticed with preteen stresses and going into middle school and all of that stuff. Her and I actually just had a conversation the other day of, do you think you might want to go back and chat with somebody? It doesn't have to be about that. It could just be about life and friendships and things like that. She was like, yeah, I'd go back. I'm in the process of getting her started back up with that. When I say I fail, I think it's just because
00:54:38
Speaker
Sometimes, like I said, they were so young and life just seemed so easy. And Dave and I finding each other, the way that we did is just miraculous and it's so good. And they love him and he loves them. And it's just like this perfect little family that we've put together. And so sometimes it's hard to want to approach the situation and be like, let's talk about that.
00:55:03
Speaker
because it just seems so good. You don't want to like, you know, pop the bubble and yes, yes, you don't want things to go downhill. But I worry that if I don't talk about it, that then I'm just helping her stuff it just like I did. So it's definitely a balance of trying to figure out exactly what to do, what not to do. So, you know, as of so far, like I said, she's been to therapy, both girls have pictures in the rooms of him and there's pictures throughout the house and
00:55:29
Speaker
whenever there's an anniversary, whether it's of his death or his birthday, we're always celebrating. So we keep it light and fun. And, you know, I'm here if they ever want to talk, you know, more in depth about things, but. And I love that because I've, you know, friends with you on Facebook and seeing when it's their birthdays, any of the girls birthday, you always tag Brian still account to like. So it's like, you know, acknowledging that this is
00:55:58
Speaker
you know, the, the dwell, you know, the two of you is, you know, like, still, like, I just I think it's so beautiful that in, in the midst of your joy of this family that you, you and Dave have now, you know, created, you guys can still honor each other where you're at, and then honor the girls where they're at with their grief as well. And I think that's just so important. So, so thank you.
00:56:23
Speaker
Liz, is there anything I have not asked you or anything that you want to share with the listeners of anything else, whether it has to do with the grieving of a parent or of a spouse, whichever one you want to share or any tools or any words of advice? Yeah, I mean, I think we've gone over a lot. You know, nobody wants to lose anybody in life. However, it's just, it's bound to happen. And you know, when I lost my mom, I definitely
Reflections on Grief Clubs and Challenges
00:56:53
Speaker
I was relieved in the sense that she suffered for so long that I felt like finally she could be at peace and not have to, you know.
00:57:01
Speaker
Especially reading her journal today. It's just like, you know every day not feeling well, like I can't imagine so I was relieved for her obviously sad but relieved really for my dad because he was able to You know, luckily they both retired when they were 55. So she had 10 fun years, you know of retirement, but I was relieved for him that he was able to almost have a second go at life as well and not have to you know be
00:57:27
Speaker
held down by illness um and then you know i was thrown into the dead mom's club so to say and it's a club that nobody wants to be a part of and i thought you know how much worse could this get i have my dad it'll be okay um never dreaming that you know i would lose my husband and then i became a member of the dead husband's club um which is worse uh if that's possible but um you know i think the biggest thing is just
00:57:55
Speaker
It's so easy to fall into a rut and really...
00:58:00
Speaker
not feel like you're going to be able to dig yourself out and you just have to open up and ask for help and, and be honest with those that love you because they want to help you. You know, there's always people out there that say, what can I do? What can I do? And you know, you don't necessarily want flowers or a fruit basket. You want babysitting for a night or you want, you know, to go to the spa and get a massage or just to have 10 minutes to yourself or just to talk to somebody and have them not say back. Oh, I know how you feel because they don't know how you feel.
00:58:27
Speaker
I think that really just being able to open up and talk to people and let them know what you need is how you're going to be able to grow out of it and move forward.
00:58:37
Speaker
Thank you so so much for sharing those those tips because those are things that as someone's listening to this if you yourself have not experienced something but know of someone that has and has gone through anything similar to what Liz has gone through she's giving us some tips as to what it is she she you know that you'd like so
00:59:00
Speaker
Thank you. Yeah, the aspect of just even just 10 minutes to yourself as a single mommy, as a widow is huge. So that in itself is a gift better than some flowers. So offer to babysit, even if it's like for her for someone to go to the spa for an hour, do something for themselves. That in itself is a huge, huge gift.
00:59:24
Speaker
Thank you so much, Liz. And again, this was Elizabeth Hall that we had on the podcast today, and we'll be sharing more information below in the show notes if you ever need to reach out in any way. If you yourself can relate to any aspect of her story, you can reach out to her. Thank you again, Liz. Thank you for having me. Thank you.
00:59:56
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
01:00:25
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.