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The Realities and Pitfalls of Being a Stay-At-Home Girlfriend
33 Plays1 year ago
Welcome back to our Podcast Host audition series!
This week, Savannah is joined by Maddy to unveil the glamourous illusion that is being a stay-at-home girlfriend.
Article on how embarking on a relationship with a man is one of the biggest financial risks to a woman: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/mar/19/divorce-women-risk-poverty-children-relationship
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Host Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
What's up queens?
00:00:02
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:00:08
Speaker
I'm your host Savannah and today I am joined by another one of our fabulous guest hosts.
00:00:14
Speaker
So just to park the bus briefly, we had a really, really good crowd of applicants for
00:00:20
Speaker
for the podcast host positions.
00:00:22
Speaker
And I just want to say that I'm super, super proud of all of them.
00:00:25
Speaker
Putting yourself out there on a podcast is not an easy thing to do, especially if it's not something that you're accustomed to.
00:00:32
Speaker
So I just wanted to break a bit away and just say I'm really, really proud of all the women who are coming on here.
00:00:38
Speaker
you know, to basically audition, I'll say audition in quotation marks, but also to share, you know, their ideas and their episodes with us, because it's not an easy thing to do.
00:00:47
Speaker
And I really appreciate being able to talk to each and every single one of them.
00:00:51
Speaker
That aside, we now have another one of our very, very, very, very special guests.
00:00:59
Speaker
We've got Maddie joining us today.
00:01:01
Speaker
Hello, Maddie.
00:01:02
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining us.
Discovery of Female Dating Strategy
00:01:04
Speaker
Hi, thank you.
00:01:07
Speaker
So just before we get into the main episode, which I'm a huge fan of this topic, I talk about, you know, what Maddie's going to talk about all the time on the Discord, if anyone's in there still.
00:01:17
Speaker
But just before we get into that, Maddie, I just wanted to ask you a bit about your FDS journey.
00:01:23
Speaker
So how did you come to find FDS and why you applied to be a host on the podcast?
00:01:29
Speaker
So I actually found FDS by accident.
00:01:33
Speaker
I was...
00:01:34
Speaker
at something on Reddit and like all these people were just kind of talking about it saying like just really negative things so I went and read it oh Scope propaganda yeah so I went and read it and I was like Scope propaganda love it yeah and I was thinking oh like I'm gonna see some good stuff here because like the things people were saying were just like so crazy and this was probably like late 2019 so it was a while back
00:02:03
Speaker
And I was just kind of scrolling through and I was just like, okay, so it's just women talking about standards, basically.
00:02:13
Speaker
And anyway, so nothing too crazy to me.
Podcast Evolution and Challenges
00:02:18
Speaker
And then I kind of forgot about it until we went into COVID lockdowns because with my job, I couldn't work for months.
00:02:26
Speaker
And I don't know.
00:02:27
Speaker
And then after lockdown and I was dating again, like all this stuff, it just kind of stayed in my mind.
00:02:34
Speaker
And I don't know, I felt like it worked really well.
00:02:38
Speaker
And
00:02:38
Speaker
When I applied for this hosting thing, I was just kind of like, oh, like nobody really talks about this kind of stuff and like relationship centered things because it's very much is men giving advice or it's women that are pick me's doing this.
00:02:57
Speaker
So I just kind of wanted to be a part of it.
00:03:01
Speaker
I think I have lots of good stories out there and all that.
00:03:06
Speaker
So I thought I would just give it a try.
Stay-at-Home Girlfriend Trend
00:03:08
Speaker
And yeah, that's about it.
00:03:09
Speaker
And now I'm here.
00:03:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:03:12
Speaker
And ultimately, that's, you know, what it's about.
00:03:15
Speaker
I mean, when I can only speak for myself, but I'm sure Ro and Lilith will perhaps have similar stories.
00:03:21
Speaker
But when we started the podcast, we had no clue what we were doing.
00:03:25
Speaker
We just got a bunch of microphones, set a recording time and just started speaking into the microphone.
00:03:30
Speaker
And
00:03:31
Speaker
I guess over time you sort of come into your own but yeah you know what you just said Maddie just took me back to 20 like November December 2020 when we conceptualized the podcast as well so yeah again it's not an easy thing to do but it definitely becomes easier over time so yeah I promise it becomes easier over time
00:03:53
Speaker
And sometimes, if you've ever listened to some of our episodes, I sometimes forget that Ro and I, or like the three of us were recording.
00:04:00
Speaker
I listened to it back and I think, did I really just say that in front of X amount of people?
00:04:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:05
Speaker
It just feels like having a conversation with a really awesome group of women.
00:04:10
Speaker
So, but yeah, thank you so much for sharing your story, Maddie.
00:04:13
Speaker
And yeah, so to intro your episode, I think this episode is super, super topical at the moment.
00:04:20
Speaker
So I'm really, really glad that you drafted an awesome episode outline for us to discuss today.
00:04:25
Speaker
Did you want to introduce your episode and, you know, why you wanted to discuss this particular topic?
00:04:31
Speaker
Because I think it's really, really interesting.
00:04:35
Speaker
Had a topic of being a stay at home girlfriend.
00:04:39
Speaker
I mean, sorry, so I'm not booing you.
00:04:41
Speaker
I'm booing the idea.
00:04:42
Speaker
Sorry.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:44
Speaker
So basically, it's just something that I see all the time now.
00:04:50
Speaker
Like, I don't know anybody in my everyday life that does any of this, but, like, I see it a lot.
00:04:57
Speaker
Like, TikTok was the main thing that I was, I kept seeing it, and I was like, okay, I think this is going to be my topic.
00:05:03
Speaker
Like, when I was thinking about what to write, because I had so much content for it, actually.
Financial Dynamics and Dependency
00:05:11
Speaker
A stay-at-home girlfriend is somewhat like a baby trad wife.
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:16
Speaker
She's probably never be a wife, but... Oh, yeah.
00:05:20
Speaker
She probably hopes.
00:05:21
Speaker
But yeah, basically, that's what it is.
00:05:24
Speaker
She just, you know, stays at home, looks after her boyfriend.
00:05:29
Speaker
But I kind of wanted to discuss if it can be a good idea or there's smart ways to do it.
00:05:36
Speaker
So it seems to be mostly young women that moving in with their boyfriends and what they do is they take care of him, they mother him, you know, they clean up after him, they cook for him.
00:05:49
Speaker
I don't know why they do it, but that's what they do.
00:05:54
Speaker
And are they working when they're having this arrangement?
00:05:57
Speaker
It doesn't seem to be.
00:05:59
Speaker
Like, I think lots of them, they're quite young.
00:06:02
Speaker
So maybe they just finished university or maybe they worked for a little bit.
00:06:07
Speaker
But their job is basically to take care of their boyfriends.
00:06:12
Speaker
Mm-mm, okay.
00:06:14
Speaker
Yeah, it's not good.
00:06:17
Speaker
And I don't think it's a super new trend because we've always taken care of men.
00:06:24
Speaker
And I think you see it a lot when men are widowed.
00:06:28
Speaker
They always seem to find somebody else so fast.
00:06:33
Speaker
Or if they can't, they'll usually have daughters or other women in the family come and take care of them.
00:06:40
Speaker
Actually, in my family...
00:06:41
Speaker
We had this one family member.
00:06:44
Speaker
He was married to his wife for...
00:06:46
Speaker
A long time, like decades, like decades and decades.
00:06:50
Speaker
And when his wife passed away, he got like a girlfriend.
00:06:56
Speaker
I swear, like months later, it was like really fast.
00:06:59
Speaker
And everybody kind of just we talk about it secretly.
00:07:02
Speaker
But because we all think it's so weird, like you're married to somebody for 40 years and then you just kind of, you know, you just find somebody new.
00:07:12
Speaker
You just find a new replacement.
00:07:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah, and that's basically how I kind of look at their relationship.
00:07:19
Speaker
Like, they're also kind of a weird match, but he probably doesn't care, right?
00:07:23
Speaker
So that's what he's doing.
00:07:26
Speaker
Or sometimes the daughter comes to take care of him too.
00:07:29
Speaker
So it's, they always need somebody, it seems.
00:07:34
Speaker
They tend to lean on women in their life as well, not necessarily their sons or their brothers or their, you know, other male relatives too.
00:07:43
Speaker
They know that.
00:07:44
Speaker
Their sons aren't going to do any of that.
00:07:47
Speaker
So like, why?
00:07:48
Speaker
Why try?
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah, that's a rant for another day.
00:07:53
Speaker
Yeah, I think so.
00:07:55
Speaker
So I have seen some of these girlfriends that do become fiancés.
00:08:01
Speaker
I don't know if they'll ever get married, but they do become fiancés.
00:08:05
Speaker
So we'll see what happens with them.
00:08:08
Speaker
But the main thing that they seem to do is they wake up early.
00:08:11
Speaker
They'll make their boyfriend a coffee, make him breakfast.
00:08:16
Speaker
Then she'll clean up.
00:08:18
Speaker
They always seem to have like an hour long skincare routine.
00:08:21
Speaker
And then she always goes to Pilates.
00:08:23
Speaker
And then she comes home, takes care of her boyfriend for the rest of the evening.
00:08:28
Speaker
Sometimes I see that they go on vacations together.
00:08:31
Speaker
And if she's really lucky, he will give her a girlfriend allowance and she can spend that on whatever she wants.
00:08:39
Speaker
What's a girlfriend allowance?
00:08:41
Speaker
What is that?
00:08:42
Speaker
I think like he sends her money or like a certain amount for the week and she can go buy whatever she wants with it.
00:08:51
Speaker
Or maybe he gives her cash or a credit card in her name, something like that.
00:08:56
Speaker
I think you have to find one that's like kind of wealthy for that.
00:09:01
Speaker
I don't think most are getting this, but.
00:09:04
Speaker
Yeah, I was thinking, I don't think most of them are probably getting even a fraction of this financial support, to be honest.
00:09:12
Speaker
Yeah, I think most men that do this are really lazy.
00:09:16
Speaker
And they probably, I don't know, just work some job like making, you know, 20k a year, 30k a year, 40k a year, like he's not going to be giving her lots of money to spend, because he'll probably want to control everything as well.
00:09:34
Speaker
So the ones that seem to be with these men that are
00:09:38
Speaker
I don't know, like seem to have like a bit more like these nicer homes.
00:09:43
Speaker
They do talk about getting an allowance, but they don't really explain like how much they get or how they get it.
00:09:49
Speaker
So I assume it's
Risks of Traditional Roles and Financial Independence
00:09:50
Speaker
like a credit card or he sends her money on like, well, here we have e-transfers, but I don't think they have that everywhere or Venmo, something like that.
00:10:00
Speaker
Mm hmm.
00:10:01
Speaker
So it's basically, I don't mean this to sound offensive, but it's basically almost like the hired help, basically.
00:10:09
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:11
Speaker
And, you know, these women are basically doing, I wouldn't even call them wife privileges, because I think to some extent, especially given the gap between men and women that come to doing housework, I don't even think that should be like a husband privilege.
00:10:27
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:27
Speaker
personally, in light of that.
00:10:29
Speaker
I think that we, you know, women as a collective, or just society as a collective, we need to be pressuring slash shaming slash whatever else thing, you know, men into doing their fair share around the house anyway.
00:10:41
Speaker
And I feel like these sorts of situations
00:10:43
Speaker
stay at home, like girlfriend, you know, trad life, etc.
00:10:48
Speaker
It just completely sets us back in making it more equitable, especially seeing as a lot of the men that this is aimed at, you know, like you said, Maddie, they're probably not
00:11:00
Speaker
like the wealthy sort of men because a wealthy man you know they would recognize that they can outsource a lot of this labor so they don't necessarily need like a mommy mcbang maid around because they can hire cleaners they can hire chefs you know they can hire housekeepers and pas and stuff like that and so you know the type of man that would find this sort of arrangement appealing is probably not going to be you know deemed to be conventionally successful in that regard as well
00:11:27
Speaker
Yeah, like it definitely is a cost thing.
00:11:29
Speaker
It's probably much cheaper to just have your girlfriend live at your home.
00:11:35
Speaker
And she can do all that stuff.
00:11:37
Speaker
So you don't have to hire, you know, like a personal chef or a maid.
00:11:42
Speaker
It's just, it's like what cheap guys do.
00:11:45
Speaker
100%.
00:11:46
Speaker
And like men, you know, they know the score.
00:11:48
Speaker
They know the value of having a woman or being in a relationship or a marriage.
00:11:53
Speaker
They understand that value very, very well.
00:11:55
Speaker
They pretend that they don't, but that's just them being deliberately ignorant because they don't want to admit how much they benefit from just having a woman around.
00:12:04
Speaker
Yeah, and actually I do kind of sometimes, like in my job, I meet lots of different people and the single men that I meet, they always are, oh, they talk about, oh, I love being single.
00:12:17
Speaker
Why would I want a girlfriend?
00:12:19
Speaker
If I have a girlfriend, I have to spend money on her and I have to take her places.
00:12:23
Speaker
And, you know, she's never going to like spend money on me.
00:12:27
Speaker
She's never going to take me out.
00:12:29
Speaker
And it's just, it's very much like a cope.
00:12:32
Speaker
It's like, well, I don't think,
00:12:35
Speaker
You have a line of women waiting to be your girlfriend.
00:12:40
Speaker
So you might as well just get used to the idea of, oh, at least I can save money now.
00:12:50
Speaker
Exactly.
00:12:51
Speaker
Exactly.
00:12:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:53
Speaker
Makes them feel good, I think.
00:12:55
Speaker
But the thing about their relationships too is it's not really healthy because there's no way she can leave him if she has no money.
00:13:05
Speaker
Like, yeah, if he dumps you, you'll be homeless.
00:13:09
Speaker
because you have no money.
00:13:12
Speaker
You either didn't start a career or you've been out of the game for a long time.
00:13:18
Speaker
So basically, you're starting at the bottom.
00:13:21
Speaker
If you can find somewhere that would hire you without like having no experience at mid 20s, early 30s.
00:13:29
Speaker
And you basically just gave up so much for a boyfriend like you gave up
00:13:35
Speaker
like your earning potential for him and maybe like your education, you kind of just threw away like any, any start on getting an independent life.
00:13:47
Speaker
Like, like you're just behind now and you just did it for a boyfriend who didn't want to commit and he can just leave.
00:13:57
Speaker
and you'll get nothing.
00:13:59
Speaker
Right.
00:14:00
Speaker
It's also, you know, geography as well.
00:14:03
Speaker
Sometimes, and I've seen it within my friendship circle where women have moved in with men, but the man or, you know, the place that they're living in is in an area where there isn't, you know, the job prospects aren't as good or the houses are so expensive that they can never buy one.
00:14:19
Speaker
So that can also set women back as well.
00:14:22
Speaker
You know, if you happen to cohabit with a man who lives in an area where
00:14:26
Speaker
It's just not geographically very favourable for trying to, you know, for trying to build yourself.
00:14:32
Speaker
And as you rightfully said, it's even riskier being a stay-at-home girlfriend than a stay-at-home wife, because at least if the relationship was to end, you are entitled or possibly entitled to things like alimony, or you can even go after his pension, for example.
00:14:47
Speaker
But when you're just a girlfriend, you don't have all those legal protections, which is why I feel like women who move in with a man and start building assets together and having kids together when they're not married,
Setting Boundaries and Achieving Equity
00:15:00
Speaker
this is a risky, risky thing.
00:15:02
Speaker
really really risky move I mean even getting married to a man in the UK it's deemed to be one of the biggest risk factors to women's success I'll drop the article in the show notes but basically several you know women who've been divorced have said you know getting into a relationship with a man is the biggest risk facing any women so basically choose wisely um and being a stay-at-home girlfriend yeah I can imagine yeah hmm
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah, I'd imagine it's very similar here.
00:15:30
Speaker
So yeah, I actually do have a friend that has been living with a boyfriend for, oh my god, it must be like 10 years they've lived together.
00:15:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:15:44
Speaker
And they're not married.
00:15:46
Speaker
I believe everything is 50-50 for finances.
00:15:50
Speaker
But he makes more money, of course.
00:15:52
Speaker
So, you know, so she's also kind of losing out on that.
00:15:56
Speaker
And I just feel like if I bring it up, it's, oh, but 50-50 is the fairest way to do everything.
00:16:02
Speaker
Or, you know,
00:16:03
Speaker
oh, well, actually, I know I was talking about getting married for the last five years, but I'm okay if we never do it.
00:16:10
Speaker
You know, it's just, oh, I just don't, I don't get it.
00:16:14
Speaker
It just sounds like it's cope.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:17
Speaker
You know, and no, like 50-50 isn't the fairest way to do things if you have a huge income disparity.
00:16:23
Speaker
And in actual fact, it advantages the man to go 50-50 because he's actually paying less money.
00:16:30
Speaker
So it isn't really and, you know, this is part of the reason why the equality argument has fallen flat on its face, because, you know, what women really should have been asking for from the jump was equity, not equality.
00:16:43
Speaker
Understanding that, you know, if a woman earns less or statistically we're likely to earn less for many factors, but, you know, one of them being the fact that we're women and we're female,
00:16:53
Speaker
and for men or society to act accordingly and not just split things down the middle that I feel like we would have gone a lot further than we have because you know we were sold and I guess society and suppose like men were sold oh you're after equality and it's like well no equity is really what people should be after yeah we can't make up like
00:17:16
Speaker
all the things that have happened from like the beginning of time to now.
00:17:21
Speaker
Exactly.
00:17:22
Speaker
Exactly.
00:17:23
Speaker
Yeah.
00:17:24
Speaker
It's just, it's even now, you know,
00:17:27
Speaker
I think we're still very much behind like in society compared to men too.
00:17:33
Speaker
So like there's really no point in asking for equality if maybe the next 2000 years men are kind of treated like how we have been.
00:17:42
Speaker
Well, then maybe things can kind of equal out, but that's never going to happen.
00:17:47
Speaker
Exactly.
00:17:48
Speaker
Exactly.
00:17:49
Speaker
And equity is really the only way to get us there.
00:17:52
Speaker
You know, so in terms of the, you know, let's say, for instance, because I recognise that not everyone, the people who listen to this podcast are at different stages of their journey, FDS journey.
00:18:05
Speaker
So we have, you know, some women who can recite the handbook back to front.
00:18:10
Speaker
And we also have some women who might be curious, right?
00:18:12
Speaker
So
00:18:13
Speaker
what sort of advice or tips, I guess, would you give to a woman who is considering?
00:18:19
Speaker
It may not even be the full, I guess, like semi-trad wife arrangement, but even just moving in with a boyfriend, you know, what would be your advice?
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah, I think if you're gonna live with a boyfriend, like, even apart from this stay-at-home girlfriend and not having a job, I think you just have to keep your money separate.
00:18:41
Speaker
I think you shouldn't make
00:18:43
Speaker
big decisions with him.
00:18:46
Speaker
I think he should also have to pay for most things.
00:18:49
Speaker
And I think you need to put your money into a savings or something, because if he finds somebody new and just dumps you immediately, well, now you need a damaged deposit on an apartment or, you know, or you got rid of all your furniture or
00:19:08
Speaker
So now you have no furniture or you're going to have to buy like all this stuff.
00:19:14
Speaker
Like it's going to cost you probably a few thousand dollars to like do all this.
00:19:18
Speaker
And then it's worse for these stay at home girlfriends because if they get kicked out, it's like, oh, OK, well, I have nothing.
00:19:25
Speaker
So I really think.
00:19:27
Speaker
If these stay-at-home girlfriends are smart, they would take, if they get a girlfriend allowance, they need to take it and they need to invest it in something or use that money to make money for themselves or whatever.
00:19:42
Speaker
you know, or get these boyfriends to like to do something.
00:19:46
Speaker
So if something happened, she can have some kind of income after because I think it will take some time for somebody like that to get back on their feet versus if you're living with a man and you have a job, you know, I think the most stressful part of that is just moving out.
00:20:05
Speaker
which costs money, but hopefully you've been saving, saving all your dollars.
00:20:09
Speaker
It just in case of something like that happens.
00:20:12
Speaker
So I was also just going to say too, when these women live with men, whether or not they have jobs is they're probably going to do a lot more in the home too.
00:20:25
Speaker
So you kind of need to have some kind of fairness there.
00:20:28
Speaker
So it's like, if I go and work
00:20:31
Speaker
you know, 40 hours a week, and he also works 40 hours a week, when he gets home, that's the end of his day, like he's not, for the most part, like he's not gonna go, oh, I'm gonna go clean up, I'm gonna go, oh, buy the groceries, I'm gonna make supper for us, like he's just not really gonna do that, like, we come home, and then we have to do everything else for the rest of the night, too.
00:20:55
Speaker
But you know, it's something that they don't
00:20:57
Speaker
either want to admit or they know and then they act stupid about it and kind of say, oh, but I washed one dish today, so you need to be grateful or something.
00:21:09
Speaker
But I think it just goes to they just don't see that stuff as important.
00:21:14
Speaker
They just see it as it's something that gets done, right?
00:21:18
Speaker
Yeah, like they come home and it's, oh, dinner's ready or it's almost ready, but they don't know about it.
00:21:24
Speaker
Or they come home and there's always...
00:21:27
Speaker
like a fridge full of groceries or
Personal Experiences and Lessons Learned
00:21:29
Speaker
something.
00:21:29
Speaker
They didn't shop for that, I'm sure.
00:21:31
Speaker
But just to them, it's like, oh, well, the fridge is always full.
00:21:35
Speaker
So that's just how it is.
00:21:37
Speaker
Oh, there's always clean dishes.
00:21:38
Speaker
That's just how it is.
00:21:40
Speaker
Like, they don't think we're doing all these things because we don't really talk about it.
00:21:45
Speaker
Like, we kind of just do them silently.
00:21:47
Speaker
And then when a man...
00:21:49
Speaker
you know, cleans the bathroom, he's always so excited about it, you know?
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:54
Speaker
Telling us, oh, but look what I did for you.
00:21:57
Speaker
But we clean the bathroom every day and then he'll do it one time in his life.
00:22:01
Speaker
And it's this big deal for him.
00:22:04
Speaker
So I actually used to live with a boyfriend when I was younger, like early 20s, I used to live with one.
00:22:12
Speaker
And honestly, at that time, it wasn't most of my friends were living with boyfriends and girlfriends.
00:22:18
Speaker
So it just was one of those things where it's just like, oh, that's what you do.
00:22:23
Speaker
So I did it.
00:22:25
Speaker
It was not very good.
00:22:26
Speaker
So now I never want to do that again.
00:22:30
Speaker
When I lived with him, he went back to school.
00:22:33
Speaker
After high school, he didn't go into college or university for a few years.
00:22:38
Speaker
So he went to school, and then I work.
00:22:42
Speaker
And I basically had to make all of the money.
00:22:47
Speaker
And yeah, he worked a little bit, but I was pulling in like 90% of our like household income basically.
00:22:57
Speaker
And, you know, and at that time I was kind of like, oh, don't worry about this.
00:23:02
Speaker
I'll do it.
00:23:02
Speaker
Like everything at home, like, oh, it's okay.
00:23:05
Speaker
I'll do the laundry or, oh, okay.
00:23:07
Speaker
Don't worry about this.
00:23:08
Speaker
Like you need to focus on that.
00:23:10
Speaker
And I did it.
00:23:11
Speaker
No, no.
00:23:12
Speaker
the whole time he was there and he ended up dropping out.
00:23:17
Speaker
So actually it was, didn't matter that I did all this stuff for him anyway.
00:23:21
Speaker
Cause he just kind of gave up and was like, okay, I'm done.
00:23:25
Speaker
And, but this one day, like I just kind of had a day where I thought,
00:23:31
Speaker
oh, I don't want to do any of that today.
00:23:33
Speaker
Like, I just want to lay in bed all day.
00:23:35
Speaker
This is my day off.
00:23:36
Speaker
I am not doing anything.
00:23:38
Speaker
But when he kind of noticed, you know, these certain things weren't done, he was like, oh, why?
00:23:44
Speaker
Why didn't you go grocery shopping?
00:23:45
Speaker
Why didn't you do this?
00:23:46
Speaker
Why is this like that?
00:23:48
Speaker
Because like he never thought about me doing anything.
00:23:52
Speaker
It was just, you know, it's just magically it's done all the time for him.
00:23:56
Speaker
And then when I decided that I wanted to go to school, I kind of talked to him like, hey, you know, I helped you out a lot.
00:24:06
Speaker
Do you think when I go back in a few months, can you kind of contribute more?
00:24:13
Speaker
Like I was working part time, but it's not enough here, you know?
00:24:17
Speaker
So I kind of told him like, yeah, can you do this?
00:24:20
Speaker
And he said, yes, he'll do it.
00:24:23
Speaker
And then about midway through my first year back, he just decided he didn't want a job, like period.
00:24:31
Speaker
Like he just wanted to stay home and do nothing.
00:24:35
Speaker
And then I had to start working more and I never had money because I spent time in school and then I had to work and then I had to do eventually, like I had to get like a second part-time job.
00:24:46
Speaker
So I was just doing all this stuff for him.
00:24:49
Speaker
Like, so he could just sit around and,
00:24:52
Speaker
And do nothing.
00:24:54
Speaker
And I remember this one day I just decided, well, this is some bullshit.
00:24:59
Speaker
So I looked for an apartment and I got the keys to an apartment.
00:25:03
Speaker
And then I broke up with him.
00:25:06
Speaker
And then he didn't have a job.
00:25:08
Speaker
So actually, I don't really know what happened because he just didn't have a job.
00:25:12
Speaker
And I was like moving out in a week.
00:25:14
Speaker
Oh, my gosh.
00:25:16
Speaker
So I told him, well, you can deal with that.
00:25:18
Speaker
I have a new place to live now.
00:25:21
Speaker
And then the rumor I heard is he married his next girlfriend like quickly, like within months.
00:25:28
Speaker
Like he proposed and then they just like quickly got married.
00:25:32
Speaker
So I assume she's now supports him.
00:25:35
Speaker
But I don't really know.
00:25:36
Speaker
That was just the rumor I heard after.
00:25:39
Speaker
So they don't change.
00:25:42
Speaker
So never again.
00:25:45
Speaker
Actually, after that, like later on when I found FDS of all these
00:25:49
Speaker
I saw all these things about, oh, don't live with a boyfriend, like get engaged first.
00:25:54
Speaker
I was kind of like, oh, it's so obvious now, now that I did it the wrong way, it makes sense now.
00:26:03
Speaker
So it's very much true.
00:26:05
Speaker
I mean, I've always even been of the opinion, like I wouldn't even live with a husband if I ever get married.
00:26:11
Speaker
It would be like separate houses, ideally.
00:26:14
Speaker
But yeah, that's just me though.
00:26:17
Speaker
Sometimes I think about like I want to live in a duplex or something and then I live on one side and then he lives on the other side.
00:26:26
Speaker
Like sometimes I think about that if I was to get married.
00:26:30
Speaker
So I get it.
00:26:31
Speaker
Some people think it's weird because they're like, oh, you wouldn't want to live with your husband.
00:26:35
Speaker
And it's just kind of, well, no, I have a life, so I don't need to be around him all the time.
00:26:41
Speaker
And then you can decorate how you want.
00:26:43
Speaker
And you just, I don't know, sometimes it's just nice to have your own space.
00:26:47
Speaker
I know for me, I'm very quite introverted.
00:26:50
Speaker
So sometimes it's I get home and I'm just happy that nobody else lives with me.
00:26:55
Speaker
And it's just I can be quiet and be in a quiet place.
00:27:00
Speaker
Well, yeah.
00:27:00
Speaker
And, you know, from a practical standpoint as well, it means if you have an argument or you split up, then you're not all of a sudden scrambling for accommodation or somewhere to live.
00:27:10
Speaker
Or, I mean, I get the idea of separate houses is, you know, radical and I understand my essential privilege because not everybody is able to afford accommodation.
00:27:19
Speaker
two separate homes, especially seeing as the cost of living crisis.
00:27:23
Speaker
I think it's, you know, further pushing women into these situations where they have to be dependent on men for housing.
00:27:29
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of the other thing.
00:27:32
Speaker
Actually, when I had written this, I just, you know, I actually didn't really think about that.
00:27:38
Speaker
But I feel like in the months since I've written this, it's just like, I feel like things have gotten much worse now.
00:27:44
Speaker
So I do think it kind of puts us in a bad position where it's like, oh, do we move back in with our parents now?
00:27:53
Speaker
Do we just, you know, live with this guy because it makes things easier?
00:27:58
Speaker
Or, you know, do we tough it out or something?
00:28:02
Speaker
Like, it's kind of like I don't blame anybody, but it's very hard to decide sometimes, like, what's the right thing to do?
00:28:09
Speaker
What would be the FDS approach to this situation, in your opinion, Maddie?
00:28:15
Speaker
So if we had, say, a woman who isn't FDS and she comes across a guy, he's like, let's move in together.
00:28:22
Speaker
He can even say, put your job on, you know, just, I mean, they never really implicit, they hardly ever explicitly say, you know, a woman needs to move in and do, end up doing X, Y, Z for me.
00:28:33
Speaker
They never say it.
00:28:35
Speaker
Yeah, they're never going to say it up front.
00:28:37
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:39
Speaker
I honestly think because it's more of the expectation.
00:28:41
Speaker
It's also just how it is.
00:28:44
Speaker
It's like you're just kind of expected to do all that stuff while he's just not expected to.
00:28:49
Speaker
I think the expectation for men mostly is, oh, but I get to bring in the money and then you can do everything else.
00:28:56
Speaker
But, you know, like in my situation, it was like, oh, you can do everything and have a job and I don't need a job.
00:29:05
Speaker
Oh.
00:29:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:09
Speaker
Yeah, what would be the FDS approach to this sort of arrangement or the offer of this arrangement, I should say?
00:29:15
Speaker
Well, I would say the first thing is...
00:29:18
Speaker
just don't do it.
00:29:19
Speaker
But if you do... Basically, don't do it.
00:29:22
Speaker
It's a scam.
00:29:23
Speaker
It's a trap.
00:29:24
Speaker
Don't do it.
00:29:24
Speaker
Don't do it.
00:29:25
Speaker
It is.
00:29:26
Speaker
You'll be trapped into doing everything.
00:29:28
Speaker
So just don't do it.
00:29:29
Speaker
I think you just have to find a way to split things that benefit you.
00:29:36
Speaker
So none of this 50-50 stuff.
00:29:40
Speaker
You just need to find a way if you think...
00:29:43
Speaker
okay, I can benefit from living with him.
00:29:46
Speaker
Okay, hopefully it works out and you really do benefit.
00:29:52
Speaker
But yeah, I would say like he just kind of has to provide almost everything.
00:29:58
Speaker
Like you don't want to go in and having to do everything for him.
Relationship Standards and Autonomy
00:30:02
Speaker
But I think you'll find pretty early on with living together what he needs
00:30:08
Speaker
If he's trying to like trap you into doing things.
00:30:11
Speaker
So you also want to have some money to leave real quick.
00:30:13
Speaker
Because that's basically what I had to do is like, I had some money and I was like, okay, I can put a damage deposit on an apartment so I can leave.
00:30:22
Speaker
But sometimes, yeah, it's not like that.
00:30:25
Speaker
But yeah, I would say like the very first sign of like, basically making you do everything is
00:30:33
Speaker
You need to leave.
00:30:34
Speaker
Just, you'll find something, you know, you'll find something, you'll find somebody better.
00:30:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:41
Speaker
And, you know, just to add to that as well, I think all women, whether you're FDS or not, you need to find out, you know, where your line is and, you know, what you're willing to do or not do, you know, at various stages of a relationship.
00:30:53
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:30:54
Speaker
You know, there might be, I don't know, just dating privileges and then boyfriend privileges and then husband privileges if you want to get married.
00:31:02
Speaker
But I feel like a lot of women get into trouble when they blur those lines and they start almost, you know, breaking their own boundaries or...
00:31:11
Speaker
accelerating a guy to the husband stage when they're at the dating stage or the boyfriend stage and you know I believe that these different stages take on different meanings for a reason so you know like being in a marriage for example that is a legally binding agreement and that comes with
00:31:29
Speaker
a different set of privileges, even from the state.
00:31:32
Speaker
So it's like, you know, if you're acting like a wife, you know, for a boyfriend, when the state doesn't even legally recognise you as his wife, like nobody else recognises you as his wife, that's recipe for disaster.
00:31:45
Speaker
You know, especially if you, especially if you end up resorting to breaking your own boundaries and standards in the hopes that,
00:31:55
Speaker
you know, if you like build a life together in quotation marks, then he's more likely to stick around because, you know, men don't always see it that way, you know?
00:32:04
Speaker
Yeah, actually, the very first time I ever came across this concept of, okay, like, I will do this for a boyfriend, I will do this for a fiance, I'll do this for a husband, like, I had never heard about this until I found FDS.
00:32:20
Speaker
And it just, it made so much more sense.
00:32:23
Speaker
So I do think that's the right way to do it.
00:32:25
Speaker
Like, you kind of have to think about
00:32:27
Speaker
what you're okay with doing on at each stage of a relationship.
00:32:32
Speaker
And I know sometimes it's kind of hard sometimes to be kind of like hard with those boundaries, because I know I always had such a issue with boundaries.
00:32:42
Speaker
I've changed a lot now, like now I'm fine with it.
00:32:44
Speaker
But oh, when I was younger, it was just so hard.
00:32:49
Speaker
I think it's something that you kind of have to have that mindset of like when you're younger to like see, really see like these benefits of like what it's like to have strong boundaries.
00:33:01
Speaker
Because I know for me, I struggled for like a long time and even, well, not so much lately, but even like a few years ago, like sometimes I would
00:33:11
Speaker
like kind of drop those boundaries a little bit and it never would work out well but you know now I know I think it's but yeah like you say Maddie it's about coming back to that compartmentalization because I feel like men are better at compartmentalizing than women are like you wouldn't see or it's quite rare for you to see for example a man who you know with a friend who'd benefit to the woman and
00:33:37
Speaker
It's actually quite rare in my experience for them to fully treat them as a girlfriend.
00:33:43
Speaker
They might be doing all the lovey-dovey stuff, but they'll always make it clear that they're not their girlfriend and they will draw a line as to the things that they're willing to do within the context of that friends of benefits relationship.
00:33:58
Speaker
But I feel like sometimes for women, the lines can be more easily blurred, especially seeing as, you know, we have a lot of noise in the background about, you know, what makes a good wife, what makes a good home and stuff like that.
00:34:12
Speaker
And it's almost like...
00:34:14
Speaker
on some fronts, we feel like we still need to audition, you know, for the right to be in a man's life.
00:34:20
Speaker
And that's just not the case at all.
00:34:23
Speaker
And again, the man won't see it as an audition.
00:34:25
Speaker
He just sees it as, you know, I've got a, I've basically got a bang made and, you know, I may or may not decide to marry her.
00:34:32
Speaker
But if I don't decide to marry her, it's on to the next one.
00:34:36
Speaker
I feel like dating is very much kind of turned into this, like,
00:34:42
Speaker
Oh, well, what can she do for me?
00:34:44
Speaker
And sometimes it does really feel like you're trying to audition to be a wife.
00:34:48
Speaker
But, you know, you're a girlfriend.
00:34:52
Speaker
So, you know, why should I do wife things?
00:34:57
Speaker
But it does kind of, I do see it a lot with dating.
00:35:00
Speaker
It's almost like there's this expectation of you to, like, perform really well until you get that ring, I guess.
00:35:10
Speaker
I guess you could say, yeah.
00:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, until you get the shackles of the ring.
00:35:16
Speaker
No, I'm joking.
00:35:17
Speaker
But yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:35:19
Speaker
Yes, yeah.
00:35:21
Speaker
And then you'll kind of wonder why you wanted it so bad.
00:35:25
Speaker
I know, right?
00:35:26
Speaker
Yeah, oh gosh.
00:35:29
Speaker
But then again, there's also the argument that if you're doing, I mean, if, you know, getting, you know, married and important to a woman, then
00:35:36
Speaker
then I think it's like doubly important that she sticks to her progressive boundary, so to say, because there are many, many women who have unfortunately, they've ended up sleepwalking into a situation where they are either a forever girlfriend or a baby mama, and there's not a ring on
Critique of Traditional Roles and Economic Implications
00:35:53
Speaker
the horizon.
00:35:53
Speaker
And that's partly links back to the topic of this episode, where basically playing house with a man, um,
00:36:02
Speaker
even if he, I mean, I still think that these men know what they're doing by withholding, you know, the security of, you know, marriage and a stable relationship.
00:36:12
Speaker
They absolutely know what they're doing.
00:36:13
Speaker
But then it just goes back to that old saying, like, you know, what's the point if you're,
00:36:19
Speaker
it's actually a lot more financially beneficial for a man to have a woman who is his girlfriend, who is having his kids, who he shares a house with, you know, than a wife.
00:36:29
Speaker
And they know this as well, especially in terms of the legal liabilities.
00:36:33
Speaker
A girlfriend isn't entitled to alimony, for example, or spousal support.
00:36:38
Speaker
Yeah, and I know sometimes it's different depending where you are, but you definitely get the best outcome in a breakup if you're married.
00:36:47
Speaker
But, you know, some of these guys, too, it's when they've been with their girlfriend for a while, it's, oh, well, I don't really want to get married until X, Y, Z happens.
00:36:59
Speaker
And then sometimes like these girlfriends, they'll jump through hoops just trying to make X, Y, Z happen and be like, oh, can we get married now?
00:37:07
Speaker
Because I did I did all this stuff that you wanted me to do.
00:37:10
Speaker
But the thing is, well, now he knows that you'll just do whatever he says.
00:37:14
Speaker
100%.
00:37:15
Speaker
That eventually, like, the marriage won't happen because, like, he'll just get everything he wanted.
00:37:21
Speaker
He'll get everything from a marriage without actually having to legally do anything.
00:37:28
Speaker
To legally commit.
00:37:29
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:37:30
Speaker
Exactly.
00:37:31
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:32
Speaker
But, like, some of these, like, TikTokers and these types of content creators, too, I see a lot of them talking about
00:37:40
Speaker
I think it comes from more like, like trad wife stuff where they sort of talk about, Oh, like femme, like this is the feminine thing to do.
00:37:50
Speaker
You look after your man and, and stuff like this.
00:37:53
Speaker
And they think, I don't know.
00:37:55
Speaker
It's almost like religious in a way.
00:37:57
Speaker
Cause they'll talk about, Oh, it's, it's your aura and Oh, all women have this like nurturing ability.
00:38:06
Speaker
And this is what we need to do all the time.
00:38:10
Speaker
So it's almost like it's very traditional, but they're still with men that don't want to marry them.
00:38:17
Speaker
You know, it's very, it's strange.
00:38:21
Speaker
It's so strange.
00:38:23
Speaker
But I did, but sometimes you do kind of see, I think there's more women now calling out this sort of stuff, which is nice.
00:38:32
Speaker
Like, yeah, because I feel like even a few years ago, I never saw like,
00:38:38
Speaker
stuff being called out.
00:38:39
Speaker
But now I think there's more younger women like, you know, speaking out and like, why would you do that?
00:38:44
Speaker
Like, why would you do that for a boyfriend?
00:38:48
Speaker
You know?
00:38:49
Speaker
And sometimes these more traditional women too, they'll just say, oh, but like, what's wrong with taking care of your man?
00:38:57
Speaker
Why does everybody hate men these days?
00:38:59
Speaker
Is what I saw somebody say, like, oh, why does everyone hate men these days?
00:39:05
Speaker
Well, well, why wouldn't we?
00:39:07
Speaker
not that I hate men, but it's like, yeah, exactly.
00:39:10
Speaker
They don't really do themselves much of a favor here, you know?
00:39:17
Speaker
It's like, you know, there's just, the value is very different, I think.
00:39:23
Speaker
Cause you know, if I think, Oh, I'm going to go live with my boyfriend.
00:39:27
Speaker
Well, he gets much more from me being there than I get from being
Cohabitation and Personal Fulfillment
00:39:31
Speaker
with him.
00:39:31
Speaker
It's like the evaluations are very different between us, right?
00:39:38
Speaker
100%.
00:39:38
Speaker
So I guess the key takeaways from this episode are basically don't be a stay-at-home girlfriend, but if you must approach with caution, but don't be a stay-at-home girlfriend.
00:39:49
Speaker
Yes, but also don't do it.
00:39:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:53
Speaker
They said they don't do it.
00:39:56
Speaker
It's not, and it's not even about, is it FDS aligned or not?
00:40:00
Speaker
But I feel like in the vast majority of cases, it's just not in a woman's best interest to move in prematurely with a man without, or to even begin to share something like a home or other assets or even a dog without just having that sort of legal protection.
00:40:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:18
Speaker
So it's really, really important to ensure you get your ducks in a row financially, just to make sure that you're not completely done over.
00:40:25
Speaker
Because the last thing you want is your entire being and your way of life and your accommodation to be tied to your relationship status, which is essentially what you're doing.
00:40:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:40:37
Speaker
And, you know, sometimes I think one of the best things you can like really get out of a relationship from a man anyway is more companionship.
00:40:47
Speaker
But
00:40:49
Speaker
They don't really even want to do that.
00:40:51
Speaker
They don't want to be your best friend or your partner in life, going through life being your number one support, your partner, your best friend.
00:41:01
Speaker
They don't want to do that anyway.
00:41:04
Speaker
When I think about, oh, what kind of man would I want to marry?
00:41:08
Speaker
Or what's in it for me if I get married?
00:41:10
Speaker
And a big thing for me is, well, the companionship, right?
00:41:14
Speaker
I want to be with my best friend kind of thing.
00:41:17
Speaker
But, you know, it just seems they don't even know how to be that.
00:41:22
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:41:24
Speaker
Exactly.
00:41:24
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:41:27
Speaker
I...
00:41:29
Speaker
Yeah, I completely agree.
00:41:30
Speaker
And I feel like, again, I think you raise a really good point, Maddie, about also appraising what you want out of the relationship as well.
00:41:38
Speaker
Besides things like I want to be a wife or, you know, I just want a companion, which is all well and good.
00:41:45
Speaker
But you also need to think about, OK, what quality of life do you want?
00:41:48
Speaker
What sort of qualities do you want in the relationship?
00:41:51
Speaker
How do you want to feel in the relationship as well?
00:41:54
Speaker
I think being explicit about that and knowing that as well can also really, really help you when it comes to dating and trying to navigate these situations.
00:42:04
Speaker
Because it's, again, it's easy to sleepwalk into situations that are just not favourable or not in your best interest.
00:42:11
Speaker
And I feel like a lot of women who end up trapped in these situations don't do it
00:42:19
Speaker
delivery is the wrong word but they don't do it thinking that it's gonna turn up bad for them I think genuinely believe a lot of them go into it with good intentions but unfortunately partly due to ignorance and partly due to the failed state that is met and it ends up being a deeply inequitable arrangement for them that they find themselves in yeah it is very much like that and I think
00:42:48
Speaker
If you're a woman who's looking to date men, I think you really have to sit down and really think about why do you want to get married?
00:42:58
Speaker
Why do you want to date?
00:43:00
Speaker
Why do you want a boyfriend?
00:43:01
Speaker
Why do you want to get married one day?
00:43:03
Speaker
It's just because I do think there's lots of women out there and it's just, oh, well, that's what you do.
00:43:09
Speaker
Or, oh, I want kids by the time I'm 30 or something.
00:43:13
Speaker
And they just kind of have these ideas of what they're supposed to do at certain points in their life.
00:43:20
Speaker
And they don't really think about, you know, they don't sit and think, well, I need to do, you need so much more from your husband than him just, you know, being there.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:43:35
Speaker
Because I don't, you know, they just maybe, maybe sometimes they'll fix things around the house, but you kind of need a bit more than that.
00:43:43
Speaker
Exactly.
00:43:44
Speaker
Any final thoughts, Maddie, before we wrap up?
00:43:47
Speaker
No, I think I said everything I wanted to say.
00:43:51
Speaker
Cool.
00:43:52
Speaker
Thank you so much for bringing this topic to the podcast, Maddy.
00:43:56
Speaker
I thought it was really interesting.
00:43:58
Speaker
And yeah, let us know what you think about the stay-at-home girlfriend phenomena.
00:44:01
Speaker
Is it something that we'd consider doing?
00:44:03
Speaker
Probably not.
00:44:04
Speaker
Do you know anyone who's done it?
00:44:05
Speaker
Let us know your thoughts in the comments.
00:44:07
Speaker
It'll be interesting to read them.
00:44:10
Speaker
But that is our show for this week.
00:44:13
Speaker
You can check us out on Twitter at fem.strat.
00:44:18
Speaker
We are in the process of recording new episodes for the Patreon.
00:44:22
Speaker
So hopefully that will be back up and running soon with more exclusive content.
00:44:28
Speaker
www.patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:44:32
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens.
00:44:34
Speaker
And for all you lazy scrotes out there, die mad.
00:44:38
Speaker
See you next week.