Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Roastus Scrotus Deletus + How an Early Childhood Educator Motivates Boys to be HVM
37 Plays4 years ago
Roastus Scrotus Deletus. We speak with Zoe Eileen about how early childhood educators in New Zealand encourage preschool boys to be HVM and the significance of gender and gender roles in boys' development.
Atlantic Article on Gender Neutral Play in Sweden: https://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2012/12/you-can-give-a-boy-a-doll-but-you-cant-make-him-play-with-it/265977/
Follow us!
Patreon: www.patreon.com/TheFemaleDatingStrategy
Website: www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com
Twitter: @femdatstrat
Instagram: @_thefemaledatingstrategy
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/The-Female-Dating-Strategy-109118567480771
Recommended
Transcript
Katie's Pandemic Relationship and Red Flags
00:00:00
Speaker
All right, we're going to kick this segment off with a roast to scrote from our Patreon subscriber, Katie.
00:00:06
Speaker
Hi, Katie.
00:00:06
Speaker
Hey, Katie.
00:00:08
Speaker
So she says, I dated a guy for around a year and a half and into the pandemic, and he sucked.
00:00:14
Speaker
Well, I'm going to guess so because you're submitting this story.
00:00:16
Speaker
So just getting myself prepared for the suckage, I guess.
00:00:24
Speaker
I felt this the whole time, but went against my better instincts to follow a plan straight out of the pick me survival guide and ignore them.
00:00:32
Speaker
Never do that.
00:00:34
Speaker
Anyways, after about a year of low-value male nonsense, including, but not limited to, consistently directly defying my request for ways to act with my belongings, two, forgetting plans or things I told him and then telling me that me saying I told you this in a later conversation was condescending and made him feel bad, and three, not wanting to hang out on our anniversary.
00:00:57
Speaker
I was finally getting fed up enough with feeling bad about myself and being leeched off of and started coming to terms with ending things.
00:01:04
Speaker
Yeah, those are all legitimate red flags.
00:01:06
Speaker
I mean, I don't know what it is where men's like memories like a fishbowl when it's something that's important to you, but when it's something that's important to them, they can remember like when the new Nikes are going to be released or like when, like, you know, if it's a year and a half in the future, they can remember the date of like the new Xbox, but they can't remember your birthday that comes every single year.
00:01:27
Speaker
It feels, or your anniversary for that matter.
00:01:29
Speaker
It feels deliberate, right?
00:01:32
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:01:32
Speaker
There's like this famous argument my parents had where my dad like forgot their anniversary five years in a row or something like that.
00:01:39
Speaker
And so, and he, in general, he always forgets other, like he'll forget the birthday of his own mom and then get mad at my mom for not remembering it for him.
00:01:49
Speaker
So yeah, he'll remember, he'll like, it's, she's expected like they're divorced now, but she, like she was expected to, uh,
00:01:57
Speaker
you know, to remember all like to be his social planner.
00:01:59
Speaker
Right.
00:02:00
Speaker
And so there was one day cause like, and his excuse is like, Oh, I forgot.
00:02:03
Speaker
Oh, I forgot.
00:02:04
Speaker
Sorry.
00:02:04
Speaker
I just forgot.
00:02:05
Speaker
I'm just busy.
00:02:06
Speaker
You know, I'm stressed
Personal Anecdotes and Breakup Aftermath
00:02:07
Speaker
out.
00:02:07
Speaker
I have things going on in my life.
00:02:08
Speaker
I forgot.
00:02:09
Speaker
And so one day she just asked him, she asked him like about some hockey statistics randomly.
00:02:14
Speaker
And he managed to remember like, you know, the amount of like a really specific, like hockey detail, like the number of like goals that a certain player scored in a certain year, like 10 years ago.
00:02:26
Speaker
And so, and then she was like, I fucking knew it!
00:02:30
Speaker
I know you don't have a memory problem!
00:02:34
Speaker
And so she would bring that up every single time you'd forget anything ever be like, Oh, yeah, you forgot my birthday.
00:02:39
Speaker
You forgot my anniversary.
00:02:40
Speaker
We can remember fricking like this and this hockey players statistics from 10 years ago.
00:02:45
Speaker
Like, yeah.
00:02:46
Speaker
Anyways, he's ranked that as a higher importance than you.
00:02:49
Speaker
And that says a lot about his opinion of you.
00:02:53
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:02:55
Speaker
That speaks volumes about his priorities.
00:02:58
Speaker
So to continue on, after a very pathetic breakup that he initiated after ignoring me for two days straight and just three days before we were supposed to fly to meet my parents.
00:03:07
Speaker
I know, I know.
00:03:09
Speaker
During which he told me he didn't actually love me.
00:03:11
Speaker
Oof.
00:03:13
Speaker
Wow.
00:03:14
Speaker
Okay.
00:03:14
Speaker
I decided I would never, ever be waiting on another text of his again.
00:03:17
Speaker
I would never initiate contact with this obvious grout no matter what.
00:03:21
Speaker
I didn't know if I could do it, but I did with flying colors.
00:03:24
Speaker
After a couple of days morning, I instantly saw this grope for what he was.
00:03:28
Speaker
Useless, pointless, a complete hindrance to my life.
00:03:31
Speaker
I had no urge to stalk him on socials, blocked him immediately, and 90% of the time had no urge to contact him ever again.
00:03:37
Speaker
Yes, queen.
00:03:38
Speaker
What's the other 10%?
00:03:40
Speaker
I feel like where's the other is the other shoe gonna drop?
00:03:42
Speaker
What's there?
00:03:43
Speaker
What's the catch?
00:03:44
Speaker
There's a little bit more here.
00:03:47
Speaker
So we didn't speak until a month and a half later, when we saw each other again for the first time.
00:03:52
Speaker
And she puts us in quotes at work over a zoom meeting.
00:03:55
Speaker
after which he reached out about exchanging our things.
00:03:58
Speaker
I gave him all his shit the moment we broke up and I wasn't missing whatever he had.
00:04:02
Speaker
So I decided to just ignore him, realizing he did have something I needed.
00:04:07
Speaker
And I wasn't missing whatever he had.
00:04:08
Speaker
So I decided to just ignore him until realizing he actually did have something that I needed.
00:04:13
Speaker
When he was headed over, I told him to leave it on the porch and didn't contact him anymore.
00:04:18
Speaker
Fast forward another month and a half.
00:04:21
Speaker
So there's more.
00:04:22
Speaker
When I received a text from him that said, hey, if this is totally off base and uncalled for, I totally get it.
00:04:27
Speaker
But dot, dot, dot, hit phone?
00:04:30
Speaker
Question mark quotation.
00:04:33
Speaker
What?
00:04:34
Speaker
She says, he and I had a ton of inside jokes, and I remembered this is one of them, and I was shocked.
00:04:39
Speaker
He was reaching out to me.
00:04:40
Speaker
I won.
00:04:41
Speaker
He was trying to become friends again.
00:04:43
Speaker
Ha ha, fuck you.
00:04:45
Speaker
Yes.
00:04:46
Speaker
Then I remembered hit phone wasn't just any inside joke.
00:04:48
Speaker
That was our code word for hooking up.
00:04:51
Speaker
This grope was texting.
00:04:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:04:55
Speaker
Oh, shit.
00:04:55
Speaker
This grope was texting me after three months of no contact, other than telling me, other than me telling him to leave my shit on my porch, asking me if I wanted to hook up with him at 8 p.m.
00:05:08
Speaker
on a Saturday.
00:05:09
Speaker
All men have is the audacity.
00:05:12
Speaker
The secondhand embarrassment was overwhelming.
00:05:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:05:15
Speaker
See, it's never anything good.
Mass Text Tactics and Katie's Response
00:05:17
Speaker
I don't know how they're not just ashamed of themselves.
00:05:22
Speaker
Do they just not feel any shame whatsoever?
00:05:24
Speaker
No.
00:05:25
Speaker
Well, the funny thing is when guys do that, it means that he's out fishing and he ain't getting any bites, let's just say.
00:05:34
Speaker
There's no other nibbles going on.
00:05:35
Speaker
So guys will go through their phone contacts and will just message 10 women that they used to fuck or whatever and hope that one of them messages them back.
00:05:44
Speaker
so yeah don't even message these people back like don't even give them the satisfaction it's a hail mary you know when they're not yeah when they're not getting bites like you said sometimes they just throw one in the air and just see they just they just cast their net just they just go out and cast a wide net see what they can what they can get but uh yeah don't don't be that gullible fish coming up to the surface um
00:06:05
Speaker
So anyway, I didn't respond for a while and cycled through some different ideas.
00:06:09
Speaker
Wrote up a couple of paragraphs about how much he sucked.
00:06:12
Speaker
Then I decided to keep it simple.
00:06:14
Speaker
If I wasted my breath telling him how much he fucked me over, he would just insist to himself that I misinterpreted the situation.
00:06:20
Speaker
So I decided on my response.
00:06:22
Speaker
So here she writes, insert princess gif of Queen Tiffany New York Pollard on her bed, righteously scoffing along with a message that says, LOL, fuck off, dude.
00:06:33
Speaker
I absolutely love New York.
00:06:35
Speaker
She's just, yeah, she just queen shit vibes.
00:06:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:38
Speaker
So yeah, that's what she sent him.
00:06:40
Speaker
So she, so he replies within a minute and says, all right, I'm sorry.
00:06:43
Speaker
And then she says she deleted his text and went to bed.
00:06:46
Speaker
And then the next morning she gets another text from him that says, I really am sorry.
00:06:50
Speaker
Honestly, the last few months have been pretty difficult with the breakup and quarantine.
00:06:54
Speaker
And I got a loop too tipsy and thought that would go over differently.
00:06:57
Speaker
Not a very nice thing to do.
00:06:59
Speaker
It won't happen again.
00:07:00
Speaker
Hope you're doing okay.
00:07:01
Speaker
I just dot dot dot dot.
00:07:03
Speaker
Shall we translate the scrotinies, ladies?
00:07:06
Speaker
So, yeah.
00:07:08
Speaker
I really am sorry.
00:07:11
Speaker
Lie, she says.
00:07:12
Speaker
Honestly, the last few months have been pretty difficult with the breakup and quarantine.
00:07:16
Speaker
And she's like, she's going on like making fun of this guy.
00:07:18
Speaker
Like, oh, I'm sorry.
00:07:19
Speaker
You've been having a tough time since you dumped me after being a piece of shit boyfriend for a year and a half.
00:07:24
Speaker
because you're lonely during a pandemic.
00:07:26
Speaker
First of all, jot me down as who gives a shit.
00:07:30
Speaker
Second of all, you told me you didn't love me, dude.
00:07:33
Speaker
The fact that you are reaching out for my sympathy over your sadness, that you didn't love me enough to keep me is not my fucking problem.
00:07:39
Speaker
And you need to keep that smelly BO away from me.
00:07:43
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:07:46
Speaker
So, so she, it continues from here.
00:07:49
Speaker
And then she says the last part, uh, I thought it would go responding to him saying, and I thought that would go over differently.
00:07:55
Speaker
She says, this is my favorite part.
00:07:56
Speaker
The last time he really saw or spoke to me was during our breakup.
00:07:59
Speaker
He told me he didn't love me.
00:08:01
Speaker
I did not say the same.
00:08:02
Speaker
I cried.
00:08:02
Speaker
So as far as he knows, I am still sad and lonely and in love with him.
00:08:05
Speaker
So the different way that this was going to go over in his mind was that I would be so broken down and lonely due to
00:08:11
Speaker
due to the pandemic and missing his pathetic ass that I would actually act against my own best interest and allow myself to hook up with him, leading to an inevitable situationship wherein I have even less of a right to my feelings than I did when he was supposed to act like he loved me.
00:08:24
Speaker
No fucking thanks, dude.
00:08:26
Speaker
You're replaceable.
00:08:27
Speaker
so okay i like that i like that her take at the end that uh because it's true that he probably thought that she would be all sad like she would he probably thought that she wouldn't move on and that she'd still be sad like the last time that he saw her and so he was thinking oh this is going to be an easy lay like she'll she'll just like be crying you know running back into my arms the slightest bit of attention so i'm glad she didn't give him that at least
00:08:52
Speaker
Yeah, she says, so anyways, I sent him a link to a fleshlight, no commentary attached.
00:08:59
Speaker
I figured he'd get the message perfectly fine.
00:09:01
Speaker
I mean, if he was down that bad, 8 p.m.
00:09:03
Speaker
drunk booty call to your ex who's way out of your league bad, then there are options for scrotes like him.
00:09:08
Speaker
If he wants to fuck a hole so badly that he needed to hit up my phone, he can just buy one.
00:09:12
Speaker
Scroote colon roasted.
00:09:14
Speaker
I'm like, he almost did the work for us.
00:09:18
Speaker
Damn.
00:09:21
Speaker
she did she did the roasting forest that's savage actually i love it it's exo exo scrotus deletus oh maybe this is what the name she wanted to use at the beginning let's take out her real name and say this is from our patreon uh subscriber called scrotus deletus
00:09:48
Speaker
And she says, P.S.
00:09:49
Speaker
At the time of our breakup, he was 28 years old and had not paid taxes in two years.
00:09:53
Speaker
And
Katie's Post-Breakup Growth and Listener Engagement
00:09:54
Speaker
P.P.S.
00:09:54
Speaker
In the months since our breakup, I have gotten a new job at my dream company and a dream boss for a 30% pay raise, have taken three cross-country road trips by myself, and am now in the midst of an even more professional and personal health success.
00:10:07
Speaker
I don't know much of what he's doing, but I do know he posted on Reddit about balding treatments making his scalp bleed.
00:10:18
Speaker
see god doesn't like ugly that's why god snatched all his hair follicles off in the back of his head every time a skirt has the audacity god puts his hairline one inch back i'm dead
00:10:37
Speaker
Oh my god.
00:10:38
Speaker
Alright, so we salute you, Queen, for this epic roast.
00:10:41
Speaker
It's delicious, yeah.
00:10:43
Speaker
And you're level up.
00:10:46
Speaker
I hope he breaks his thumbs trying to text you next time.
00:10:48
Speaker
And I hope that the balding treatment fails and he just remains bald.
00:10:52
Speaker
She's Rogaine.
00:10:54
Speaker
I hope Rogaine makes his testicles shrivel up.
00:10:58
Speaker
Yeah, isn't that a thing where like if you put Rogaine, some guys will put like Rogaine on their genitals and it burns.
00:11:04
Speaker
Like that's a thing apparently.
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah, I read about that.
00:11:07
Speaker
I thought it was supposed to be like DHT blockers, but it also like blocks your testosterone production or something like that.
00:11:14
Speaker
So allegedly can make your your testicles drivel.
00:11:16
Speaker
I don't know.
00:11:20
Speaker
Yeah, I have no idea.
00:11:22
Speaker
I have no no need for Rogaine.
00:11:25
Speaker
I hope sometimes next time he's on a Zoom meeting, the camera gets tilted and people can see that he's not wearing any pants.
00:11:32
Speaker
Bam.
00:11:32
Speaker
Yes.
00:11:34
Speaker
Like that Folgers commercial.
00:11:36
Speaker
I hope the next time he tries to hook up with a woman, she says yes.
00:11:40
Speaker
He goes there or she sends him to somewhere that's two hours away from where she actually lives and blocks him.
00:11:46
Speaker
I actually did that once, yeah.
00:11:48
Speaker
I've done that before, actually.
00:11:50
Speaker
I've done that before.
00:11:51
Speaker
Like a guy who stood me up and then ghosted me texted me months later, so I told him to meet me at a place that was two hours away and then didn't show up and then blocked him.
00:11:59
Speaker
And then just block him.
00:12:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:02
Speaker
Text me when you're outside, block him.
00:12:06
Speaker
so fucking desperate and thirsty as fuck like they'll do anything for sex right so you can send him six hours away and he'd probably still do it he'd probably go there it's it's it's gonna be waste his time 21 it's gonna be waste his time 2021 i hope he gets that fleshlight trips over it breaks his fucking hip bone yes
00:12:29
Speaker
Thank you for this roast to scrote submission, scrotus deletis.
00:12:33
Speaker
And if you'd like to submit, and for any of our listeners, if you would like to submit your own roast to scrote, please sign up for our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:12:41
Speaker
And you can submit your very own roast to scrote, queen shit or nasus for us to read aloud on air.
00:12:49
Speaker
Sound good.
Introduction to Zoe Eileen and Gender Roles Discussion
00:12:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:12:56
Speaker
What's up queens?
00:12:57
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy, the meanest female-only place on the internet.
00:13:01
Speaker
I'm your host Ro.
00:13:03
Speaker
And this is Lilla.
00:13:05
Speaker
And today we're going to talk to an early childhood educator, Zoe Eileen.
00:13:10
Speaker
She's going to talk to us a little bit about how gender roles affect male and female children.
00:13:15
Speaker
Yes, that's correct.
00:13:17
Speaker
So I live in Wellington, New Zealand.
00:13:20
Speaker
I studied
00:13:22
Speaker
child care development for two years and then I started working in I think you call them kindergartens we have child care facilities for the ages zero to five that's awesome
00:13:35
Speaker
So we get this question a lot from parents.
00:13:38
Speaker
A lot of parents, I guess, stumble across our subreddit and are horrified to learn sort of the reality of what the dating world is, what it's like for young people out there.
00:13:47
Speaker
A lot of parents asking, like, how do I protect my daughter?
00:13:49
Speaker
How do I raise my son to be a high value man?
00:13:53
Speaker
How do I how do I raise my son to be a good person, basically, given that we live in such a patriarchal
00:13:58
Speaker
culture, right?
00:14:00
Speaker
And so we wanted to, it's a big question, I know.
00:14:02
Speaker
And so I wanted to get your professional opinion on that, Zoe.
00:14:07
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really great question because, you know, in this world, we just have so many external forces working against us.
00:14:14
Speaker
And it's the society we're living in is really raising our sons for us to have really quite negative male traits.
00:14:22
Speaker
And I think when you're raising your sons, you
00:14:27
Speaker
It's such a hard question because there's so many small actions every single day that build up.
00:14:34
Speaker
And I've got a few of them.
00:14:36
Speaker
But firstly, I think the most important thing that we have to remember is that they are only little boys and they are only little girls.
00:14:44
Speaker
They're just little wee baby children.
00:14:46
Speaker
And I think especially for boys, the concept of education around bodies and body autonomy is
00:14:56
Speaker
And masculinity is really important.
00:14:58
Speaker
Little boys need to be able to be little boys and express their aggression and express their testosterone and their masculinity.
00:15:08
Speaker
That can be quite damaging and go inside and they'll not know how to behave masculine and they won't know how to express their aggression and their testosterone healthy and that can lead to really unhealthy expressions of testosterone as we see in all of our men in society.
00:15:26
Speaker
So I think one really important concept is this concept of never shame, only explain.
00:15:33
Speaker
And it's really important because when we shame young boys and children, they shut down and they go inside of themselves to a very dark place where they feel like I'm not accepted, other people don't accept me, and so they'll
00:15:52
Speaker
line up with this internal narrative and continue to do actually more negative things.
00:15:57
Speaker
So it's really important to always come from a place of empathy and gentleness.
00:16:03
Speaker
And most of the time when little boys do something naughty or wrong, we don't use those words in the industry, whenever they do something labeled as naughty, the best thing we can do is just to slow down, come down to their level, and just
00:16:22
Speaker
simply explain why they can't do what they're doing and why it's wrong.
00:16:28
Speaker
and also the consequences.
00:16:30
Speaker
And I think because you're dealing with small children, they seem to be, I would assume anyways, that they would be a lot more receptive to correction versus if you were teaching older children where the shame might be, they won't feel shame, they'll just start to kind of act out or they'll start to roast the teacher or they'll start to do something to reject that correction.
00:16:52
Speaker
When you're working with small boys especially, are they a lot more receptive at that age?
00:16:56
Speaker
Oh, yes, yes.
00:16:57
Speaker
They are so receptive.
00:16:58
Speaker
It's amazing.
00:16:59
Speaker
At that age, you know, it's really wonderful because just a few simple corrections can totally change their behavior.
00:17:07
Speaker
Granted, it doesn't happen all the time because each child is different and they have different parents.
00:17:14
Speaker
And sometimes their parents do some work that's really hard to undo.
00:17:17
Speaker
But I'm often shocked at how quickly they adapt and how responsive they are.
00:17:25
Speaker
And just how eager to please they are.
00:17:28
Speaker
This is one thing that really amazes me, particularly about little boys, is that actually even more than girls, they have such a strong craving to please other people around them.
00:17:39
Speaker
And it's amazing how strong that drive is.
00:17:42
Speaker
And so when you give them clear guidelines to make adults happy, and they're really obvious and they know what to do, they...
00:17:52
Speaker
will try their best to adhere to those guidelines because children crave approval more than anything else.
00:17:59
Speaker
So I find that just explaining the rules and gently correcting it and reminding them, I think that's why it's really important to be gentle because you remind them that you love them, you remind them that's not what we do here.
00:18:15
Speaker
We're really gentle with our hands and they can feel the love, they can feel the understanding and then they know
00:18:23
Speaker
when I want positive attention, I can just go and do this good thing, which it works really, really, really well.
00:18:30
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:31
Speaker
I think a lot of people, our audience might hear the phrase, don't shame, you know, only explain.
00:18:38
Speaker
And they might, they might not be on board with that because they're thinking about the way that they talk to adult men.
00:18:45
Speaker
And so I do just want to be clear to our audience, like the whole don't shame, only explain, you know,
00:18:50
Speaker
like Zoe do you think that it's for zero to five that's for ages zero to five right it's not for man children oh absolutely not shame is such an important concept in society because it stops you from doing bad things that your peers frown upon so shame is a really important concept in our society but when you're so young I mean think about a time when you were two three four five and an adult made you to feel embarrassed and ashamed of yourself that
00:19:20
Speaker
hurts and it impacts us for a very long time.
00:19:24
Speaker
And so I think we need to really approach from, instead of a place of anger when we're correcting behavior or any kind of negative emotion, it's really important to just ground ourselves, think about why we're reacting this way to the child, calm ourselves, think about an easy way to, or a simplified way of explaining the situation and then just explain.
00:19:49
Speaker
Because when you correct a child zero to five with shaming them, they really, it's so much harder to correct them in the future because they don't feel like they can trust you
Healthy Masculinity and Children's Play
00:20:00
Speaker
anymore.
00:20:00
Speaker
Can you give me some examples of times where, you know, maybe a little boy has been, has done something like, you know, quote unquote naughty and, you know, how did, what did he do and how did you respond to that?
00:20:10
Speaker
Yeah, sure thing.
00:20:11
Speaker
So, so there, I'll start off with the one that comes most intensely to my mind and that is a little child with,
00:20:19
Speaker
I won't name his name for just professionalism.
00:20:23
Speaker
And he was the child of a gangster.
00:20:27
Speaker
We have gangs in New Zealand.
00:20:29
Speaker
And his father was about 6'5", gigantic man, dressed in gang memorabilia and had a swash sticker tattooed on the left side of his cheek.
00:20:43
Speaker
So you could tell that his parenting –
00:20:46
Speaker
was not ideal just by assumption.
00:20:49
Speaker
And this child was so violent, so aggressive and constantly would be hitting boys, girls, everybody.
00:20:59
Speaker
And so it was particularly hard because he was already being shown at home the standard of behaving and the behavior at the center didn't match.
00:21:09
Speaker
So it was hard for him to adapt, but often I would see him attacking people
00:21:17
Speaker
boys who would attack girls.
00:21:20
Speaker
And so we had this rule where if a child hits another child, that's them learning consequences and learning that they can't go and do anything they like and there's going to be zero repercussions.
00:21:35
Speaker
And so this one time we had this little boy who just loved harassing girls.
00:21:40
Speaker
I don't know why, he would always go, peel their hair, take their toys, steal their blocks.
00:21:45
Speaker
and just annoy them for no reason.
00:21:48
Speaker
And so the naughtiest kid in the class, I look over to him, he's fighting with another boy and I tell him, Hey, come over here.
00:21:56
Speaker
He's bothering Jessica and you need to stop him.
00:21:58
Speaker
So he comes over and he just pushes that boy.
00:22:02
Speaker
And, um, I look around at my other coworkers and they, uh, surprisingly, uh,
00:22:10
Speaker
totally fine with it and I'm like okay that's not exactly what I wanted but I sit down and I say to the boy who's bothering the girl do you see that it's really not nice to come have someone come and annoy you and he goes yeah I just want so and so's blocks and I was like you know you can't come and take this from her you can't you just can't come and take this from her because you know what it's like for other people to come and do things you don't like can you understand that
00:22:40
Speaker
They're like, yeah, I didn't like so-and-so coming over and pushing me.
00:22:44
Speaker
And I said, yeah, so why do you do it to her?
00:22:47
Speaker
And he goes, oh, I just want someone to play with.
00:22:50
Speaker
And I was like, well, you can play rough games with this boy.
00:22:54
Speaker
Why don't you guys go play?
00:22:55
Speaker
And they kind of looked at each other and then they just ran off and started roughhousing with the boys.
00:23:03
Speaker
And then...
00:23:04
Speaker
Whenever that boy would come and annoy a girl, I would just call over the roughest boy in the class and he would come over and he would kind of intimidate the other boy to leave the girl alone and then they would run off and play.
00:23:18
Speaker
And so it was quite amazing because this one extremely troubled boy got a place where he could actually use his intimidation and his aggression in a somewhat beneficial way.
00:23:31
Speaker
He could protect a girl and
00:23:33
Speaker
He could express it healthily with another boy.
00:23:35
Speaker
And this other boy was explained using really easy to understand empathy because he just got bullied.
00:23:43
Speaker
Don't bully other people.
00:23:44
Speaker
And instead you can just turn around and go play nicely and go wrestle with the boys.
00:23:49
Speaker
And so there was,
00:23:51
Speaker
really good for all three children involved.
00:23:54
Speaker
So that's interesting because that, it sort of reinforces the idea that the way that boys need to socialize with each other is not the same way that boys socialize with girls.
00:24:06
Speaker
And the reason I bring that up is because
00:24:10
Speaker
There's been a lot of like Manosphere talk about how preschool children are being or preschool boys are being thwarted from their educational career because they're not allowed to rough house or there's not allowed they're not allowed to play rough with other boys.
00:24:24
Speaker
They have to be, quote unquote, agreeable like girls.
00:24:26
Speaker
I don't necessarily buy into that.
00:24:28
Speaker
But do you think as a childhood educator, there is some truth to the idea that the physical aspect of boys play is
00:24:39
Speaker
is important for their learning and socialization?
00:24:41
Speaker
Oh, absolutely.
00:24:42
Speaker
I mean, they genuinely, genuinely need multiple outlets to express this testosterone.
00:24:49
Speaker
Some boys more than others, some boys less than others, but all boys and girls for that matter need an outlet for their aggression.
00:24:57
Speaker
You know, I have heard from the manosphere that, oh, men are being socialized to be like girls, but I don't believe that's true at all.
00:25:05
Speaker
I think that is just propaganda because at least from
00:25:08
Speaker
my society and my work and here in New Zealand, I can tell that we're very pro-boy behavior and very pro-masculine expression.
00:25:18
Speaker
And so that idea, I think it's just simply propaganda because I think everybody in childcare knows that boys will be boys and that they have a need to stretch their muscles and go get out their testosterone and go
00:25:37
Speaker
do some physical exercise.
00:25:39
Speaker
Everyone in the industry knows how important it is.
00:25:42
Speaker
That's been my experience as well as someone who has a lot of friends who are teachers is that they are aware that boys have to socialize themselves is quite different from girls.
00:25:53
Speaker
So yeah, I agree with you in that I don't agree with the manuscript talking point that somehow the boys are just being like
00:26:00
Speaker
you know unfairly total bullshit yeah unfairly punished for being male they'll say like oh we live in a gynocracy where women are oppressing men by suppressing their like natural desire to like be a man and and so on right and so the my understanding what you said is that you know
00:26:18
Speaker
boys are different than girls and that's okay but that they should express that violence or that not violence but they should express that aggression with one another and not towards women they should be taught that essentially and that and that teachers are actually aware of that and actually guiding that with with male children it's not something that there's no truth to the idea that boys aren't being allowed to play or express themselves physically and that's why they're failing in school no truth to that whatsoever no truth
00:26:47
Speaker
I think when you get into older children that there's more strict regimen to follow, just like going to different classes and so on and so forth.
00:26:56
Speaker
And that somehow they've conflated that into the idea that, I don't know, that somehow their masculinity is being repressed.
00:27:04
Speaker
And maybe it is, but that is an issue with the schooling system and capitalism and not with our feminine society raising our boys to be less masculine because that's just an outright lie.
00:27:17
Speaker
I mean-
00:27:18
Speaker
Some of the like, quote unquote, parenting, feminist parenting advice, not from any experts, but I hear I see, you know, comments on other parts of the Internet.
00:27:27
Speaker
They'll talk about like, oh, I want to teach my sons that hitting isn't OK or that like violence is never OK.
00:27:35
Speaker
And so I see some parenting advice on forums that is that is actually very much like aimed at trying to suppress all, you know, aggression.
00:27:46
Speaker
Right.
00:27:46
Speaker
And so I wanted to ask you, like,
00:27:49
Speaker
Can you explain why that's a bad idea or what would be a better alternative?
00:27:53
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:27:54
Speaker
And I'm so glad you asked because I think that... Okay, so I think some people... It's kind of hard for me to word this.
00:28:04
Speaker
I think some feminists have this idea that masculinity is toxic and so we need to end masculinity.
00:28:12
Speaker
And I believe we just need to gently redirect it.
00:28:16
Speaker
I am, there's one policy that I'm super firm on and it is that the boys do not rough hours with the girls at all, period.
00:28:25
Speaker
Because what you're teaching them is that it's okay to lay a hand on a woman in anger.
00:28:30
Speaker
It's okay to hit her if she gets mad.
00:28:33
Speaker
It's okay to rough her around and be careless with her body.
00:28:37
Speaker
And that's not okay.
00:28:38
Speaker
And so every time, even if she's, you know, wrestling with him and she's enjoying it, it's contentious.
00:28:44
Speaker
I redirect the boy because it's not fair.
00:28:47
Speaker
It's a losing battle.
00:28:48
Speaker
She is smaller, he's stronger.
00:28:51
Speaker
Like it's just not a fair fight.
00:28:53
Speaker
And so often if I see a boy, you know, roughhousing with a girl, I'll just go and they'll say, Hey, why don't you go play with someone your own strength?
00:29:03
Speaker
Some people in society will find the idea that boys shouldn't roughhouse with girls offensive in some way.
00:29:10
Speaker
And they say, you know, girls can fight too.
00:29:13
Speaker
and yada, yada, yada, but she shouldn't have to.
00:29:16
Speaker
And we shouldn't teach our young boys from early infancy and toddlerhood that it's okay to fight girls.
00:29:24
Speaker
It's okay to hit girls.
00:29:26
Speaker
It's not okay to be rough with women.
00:29:29
Speaker
This is the idea that we should be sending.
00:29:32
Speaker
And so whenever we say that, you know, whenever we see two young people
00:29:39
Speaker
of mixed genders and their rough housing and engaging in this aggressive play.
00:29:44
Speaker
What we're really teaching them is that it's okay to fight with the opposite sex.
00:29:49
Speaker
It's okay to be rough.
00:29:51
Speaker
It's okay to manhandle.
00:29:53
Speaker
And then, you know, they grow up into adults and they think, you know, well, I've been doing this my whole life.
00:29:59
Speaker
I've been wrestling with girls.
00:30:00
Speaker
I've been hitting girls.
00:30:02
Speaker
I've been doing this my entire life and no one's ever stopped me.
00:30:05
Speaker
So it must be okay.
00:30:07
Speaker
And so that's why I'm very firm on the idea that we need to redirect male aggression towards women to male aggression directed at other males, because they're not going to stop being aggressive, but we can teach them to be aggressive with other men.
00:30:24
Speaker
You know what it reminds me of?
00:30:26
Speaker
It reminds me, and if you've ever had a puppy.
00:30:29
Speaker
Yeah, I was about to say that.
00:30:30
Speaker
If you've ever had a puppy, one thing they teach you is to help puppies learn something called bite resistance by letting them roughhouse and play with other dogs, a lot of times older dogs or bigger dogs.
00:30:44
Speaker
And what that does is puppies, when they're born, they don't know what
00:30:49
Speaker
They don't know that they're not supposed to bite very hard.
00:30:52
Speaker
The way that they explore their world is they bite things.
00:30:54
Speaker
They put things in their mouth.
00:30:55
Speaker
And so if you don't teach them not to just chomp down on everything they see, they'll use the full force of their jaw to bite things.
00:31:04
Speaker
And so how they learn to control the force of their bite is by playing with other puppies.
00:31:11
Speaker
or playing with other dogs in general, and they'll bite another dog and the other dog will tell them, they'll snap back right away and be like, hey, that's too hard.
00:31:18
Speaker
Or also, if they get bit, they'll learn through experience that biting things hurts, being bit hurts, and to not bite things is hard.
00:31:28
Speaker
So when you're describing the way that boys learn, it's not unlike how a lot of other
00:31:35
Speaker
species especially uh species that are very very active like puppies are learn about their environment they have to learn by literally testing the limits of their physical force against other dogs that they know how to regulate and they'll learn they'll learn how to interact with humans that way too if there's an older dog the older dog knows how to interact with humans knows how to interact with even smaller puppies so he'll teach the dog
00:31:59
Speaker
hey don't bite you know don't use your full force in the back of a smaller dog and also you can't bite humans the same way because humans have skin and not fur so that's kind of interesting and kind of goes along with how a lot of other species socialize yeah the same thing with cats and cats and dogs do the same thing like the mom cat or the mom dog will like correct the children when they're being too annoying or when they're you know biting too hard and that sort of thing so yeah
00:32:27
Speaker
Yeah, it really boils down to the premise that you just shouldn't hit a girl, period.
00:32:32
Speaker
I see this all the time where boys and girls will be roughhousing and a lot of my other fellow educators won't correct it.
00:32:40
Speaker
And I find that really uncomfortable because we're really just teaching the young boys that it's okay to hit girls if you're happy or if you're sad.
00:32:48
Speaker
That's your right to go hit them.
00:32:51
Speaker
And so every time I see any roughhousing situation,
00:32:54
Speaker
You know, the girl shouldn't have to put up with it.
00:32:56
Speaker
It's a losing battle and she shouldn't have to deal with that.
00:32:59
Speaker
So, you know, I just go in gently and I say, I say, hey, did you know boys are much bigger and stronger than girls?
00:33:07
Speaker
And I say, yeah.
00:33:09
Speaker
And so I say, well, why don't you go play with someone your own strength?
00:33:15
Speaker
Or if they're being really aggressive.
00:33:18
Speaker
Hey, I don't think, say, I don't think Jessica really likes how rough you're being.
00:33:22
Speaker
do you think you could go play rough with the boys?
00:33:25
Speaker
Because in childcare, it's protocol.
00:33:27
Speaker
You can't just tell them, no, stop that because it's just, it doesn't give them any alternative.
00:33:32
Speaker
So we say, how about you go do this?
00:33:35
Speaker
Or do you want to go do this instead?
00:33:37
Speaker
And it's not about burying their masculinity.
00:33:40
Speaker
It's not about telling their masculinity is wrong.
00:33:43
Speaker
It's just showing them that boys and girls are very different.
00:33:47
Speaker
And boys are bigger and stronger and that's okay.
00:33:50
Speaker
And so you, if you want to play rough games, if you want to play wrestling games, go play with the other boys who really like those kinds of things.
00:34:01
Speaker
Awesome.
00:34:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:34:02
Speaker
And when we were, I think this is a good opportunity maybe to explain, you were telling me earlier about the cops and robbers and princesses.
00:34:10
Speaker
Yes.
00:34:12
Speaker
And I thought that was so such an adorable story.
00:34:15
Speaker
So I was wondering if you could maybe share that here on the podcast.
00:34:17
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:34:18
Speaker
So we had one center of boys and girls and there was a lot of aggressive play between the girls and boys.
00:34:29
Speaker
And so we made this game.
00:34:31
Speaker
It was called Cops, Robbers and Princesses.
00:34:34
Speaker
It's a really lovely game.
00:34:37
Speaker
Anybody can be a princess.
00:34:38
Speaker
Anybody can be a cop or a robber.
00:34:40
Speaker
But the main premise is that we've got robbers and they'll just go along and steal things from other children.
00:34:46
Speaker
And then we have the cops come along and just try and get it back.
00:34:50
Speaker
And so this is really, really great practice because if there's a child who wants to explore a more adventurous, more
00:34:59
Speaker
maybe slightly negative connotations like the bad guy, so to speak.
00:35:05
Speaker
They're wanting to explore that role and how it makes them feel.
00:35:08
Speaker
They'll play the part of the robber and they'll just go take something and run away, be giggling.
00:35:13
Speaker
And then the second role is that of the police officer and they're learning about their role as a hero, someone who saves the day and they're learning about how that role play makes them feel.
00:35:24
Speaker
And so that's really good because it,
00:35:26
Speaker
gives an internal monologue of I will go save the day I have the power to take action I have the power to go help people I have the power to stop the bad guy and then when it gets interesting is when we throw in the princesses because they don't really have a role they kind of just run around with the cops and robbers and they have their beautiful little outfits and they have their magic ones and they'll cast magic spells and say things like this and sometimes they'll
00:35:56
Speaker
boss around the cops and robbers and they'll say to the robber, I want this dinosaur, go get it for me.
00:36:01
Speaker
And, or they'll say to a police officer that I got my wand stolen.
00:36:06
Speaker
And immediately the boy, he's your wand got stolen?
00:36:11
Speaker
Where?
00:36:11
Speaker
Where?
00:36:11
Speaker
And he, you can just see the determination on his face.
00:36:14
Speaker
He's so ready to go help.
00:36:16
Speaker
He's just wants to save the day.
00:36:18
Speaker
He's so excited to be the hero.
00:36:19
Speaker
He's so excited to be useful.
00:36:21
Speaker
And so he takes this opportunity and he, there's that wand, go get it.
00:36:25
Speaker
And then he runs and he's running, he's chasing the cop and the princess is coming behind, get that wand.
00:36:31
Speaker
And they're all running together playing.
00:36:34
Speaker
And then the police officer, he goes and he tackles the other boy and he takes the wand back and he proudly presents it back to the girl.
00:36:43
Speaker
And he's his chest out.
00:36:45
Speaker
He's just beaming with radiance because he's so proud that he's done such a good job of saving the day.
00:36:51
Speaker
And these girls are so happy because they get to run around and play and they have a power position where they are the princess, you know, they are the royalty, they're the, the, um, political decision maker.
00:37:03
Speaker
They, and they're beautiful.
00:37:05
Speaker
They're having a great time.
00:37:07
Speaker
They're not getting picked on.
00:37:08
Speaker
They're not getting harassed.
00:37:09
Speaker
If anyone tries to pick on them, bully them, harass them, they've got this swarm of good little boys playing police to come and save the day.
00:37:19
Speaker
And I love this because these boys, when they get to express the side of being the bad guy, and they get to express the side of being the hero, and the girls, they get to find out that boys are wanting to protect them.
00:37:37
Speaker
And so this game, I love this game because especially the look on the boys' face, when they do a good job, they are like,
00:37:46
Speaker
This little puppy fawning at you, looking up with you with these big beautiful eyes, just so craving approval and praise.
00:37:53
Speaker
It's just so beautiful to see how they are just so, they get so much joy out of being the hero and they get so much joy out of protecting and serving and it really validates them.
00:38:07
Speaker
I love this game.
00:38:08
Speaker
It's so adorable to watch them all get along so easily.
00:38:12
Speaker
I really love it.
00:38:13
Speaker
So how do you balance, because this is obviously controversial because you're talking about an explicitly gendered game in a time where most of the push in childhood education has been to eliminate gendered play.
00:38:29
Speaker
Or like eliminate the concept of gender roles.
00:38:31
Speaker
Yeah, eliminate the concept of gender roles.
00:38:34
Speaker
And with that, how do you balance...
00:38:36
Speaker
You don't want to have a situation where the girls feel too passive, right?
00:38:40
Speaker
Because it's really great to empower the boys to feel and be useful.
00:38:44
Speaker
But how do you also make sure that girls aren't feeling like they're powerless in that situation?
00:38:49
Speaker
Is it that they, I think you mentioned that they were wielding political power.
00:38:54
Speaker
Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
00:38:57
Speaker
Yes, they are.
00:38:59
Speaker
They're the princesses and they know it and they don't feel powerless at all because they have
00:39:04
Speaker
this group of stronger, bigger boys to do their bidding.
00:39:08
Speaker
Boss around.
00:39:08
Speaker
Boss around.
00:39:09
Speaker
Yeah, they do.
00:39:10
Speaker
And everyone's happy.
00:39:11
Speaker
It's because I think we look at it as in boys and, sorry, and girls in order to receive respect need to be like boys.
00:39:19
Speaker
They need to fight the boys.
00:39:20
Speaker
They can do it themselves.
00:39:21
Speaker
They can do everything themselves and yada, yada, yada.
00:39:24
Speaker
And that's, I think that's really sexist because we're expecting the girl to behave like a boy in order to prove her worth and
00:39:33
Speaker
earn her respect.
00:39:33
Speaker
And I think that's really unfair because girls and boys have different power from different places.
00:39:39
Speaker
And for this game, I really like it because the girls, they shouldn't have to go and save their, they shouldn't have to go and fight boys to prove themselves.
00:39:50
Speaker
Instead, they can say, you know, he got my wand, yada, yada.
00:39:55
Speaker
And then they can basically order around these boys to do the
00:40:00
Speaker
boy jobs for them, do the boy work for them, and they understand that their voice has power and their words have power and that they can influence the situation with their words and with their will and with their desire.
00:40:15
Speaker
They can put an input, they can tell the group what to do, and then they can have results that way, which I think is much more important because you're teaching the girls when you speak, people listen.
00:40:27
Speaker
I love that.
00:40:28
Speaker
I absolutely love that so much.
00:40:30
Speaker
Yeah, because I'm very frustrated with so much of the parenting discourse.
00:40:34
Speaker
I hear a lot of, you know, feminists, I guess, liberal, usually liberal feminists saying like, oh, when I have a kid, I'm going to raise my children without gender, like Grimes, for example, saying I'm going
00:40:44
Speaker
to raise my son without gender which is first of all ridiculous because one a lot of them haven't been to like therapy to unpack their own internalized biases so a lot of them end up passing on like you said like it's kind of sexist to act like to in order for a girl to prove her worth she has to act like a boy because you're saying that the standard for goodness is masculinity which you know it's okay to acknowledge that men and women are different they're both just as valuable right um
00:41:13
Speaker
And that women can be valuable just by being like the way that they naturally want to be.
00:41:17
Speaker
Right.
00:41:18
Speaker
And that's something that they're discovering even in I was reading a study that they were trying to do gender neutral toys and gender neutral play in places like Sweden.
00:41:26
Speaker
And it's not really working out well, because for whatever reason, there are certain things that boy children and girl children tend to gravitate towards.
00:41:34
Speaker
It's not always happening.
00:41:36
Speaker
You know, it's not always exact.
00:41:37
Speaker
Obviously, we have people that are gender outliers, but like for the most part, when they would see certain types of play, I can't remember.
00:41:45
Speaker
I wish I had pulled up this article, but certain types of play and more action play was more typical of.
00:41:51
Speaker
boys and then with girls it was more like relational play right like they you take your barbies and they have conversations they have like tea versus like boys were more action or you know what i'm saying boys just want to go punch each other yeah yeah it's more action-oriented play and they just play
00:42:08
Speaker
Boys and girls typically play differently.
00:42:10
Speaker
And so as much as they've tried to push gender neutral parenting, it hasn't been or and gender neutral toys and gender neutral play, it hasn't necessarily been successful because.
00:42:23
Speaker
it seems that to me, or it seems to them that at least some of the way that boys and girls play is innate.
00:42:28
Speaker
It's something that an innate sense of gender that we're born with that can't just be easily fixed by giving, you know, a boy, a Barbie doll and a girl, a truck.
00:42:38
Speaker
Yes, absolutely.
00:42:39
Speaker
And it's because women and girls, they are born with a larger left side of their brain.
00:42:45
Speaker
And so they're, they have this advantage because they're naturally,
00:42:51
Speaker
more capable of language, writing, recognizing emotion, reciprocating an emotional response.
00:43:00
Speaker
They're so much better at empathy, language, relations, just because they're born with a larger left side of their brain.
00:43:09
Speaker
Personally, I think this gender neutral or no gender way of raising children is actually quite unfair because
00:43:17
Speaker
you're basically assuming your child is agender and you don't know what your gender is.
00:43:22
Speaker
And I think that we should really just, I think, you know, when it comes to gender roles, I think that some gender roles are actually good.
00:43:31
Speaker
I think gender roles are so crucial in society because whether we like it or not, we are a gendered society and there's always, always going to be gender roles put upon us because we're born male or female or intersex.
00:43:44
Speaker
And so there's always going to be a role that puts people
00:43:47
Speaker
that is placed on us by our society.
00:43:50
Speaker
And I think with the dissolving of gender roles, now we're seeing that men can say, well, because we're rejecting gender roles, men don't have to provide, men don't have to protect, men don't really have to do anything.
00:44:04
Speaker
And they're not contributing anything to society because of the lack of gender role.
00:44:08
Speaker
Some gender roles are actually good.
00:44:11
Speaker
So I'm going to push back on that a little bit because there are, in fact, people that are born atypical of their gender.
00:44:17
Speaker
And I think a lot of the abolishing of the gender roles, but there's there is multiple reasons why people wanted to abolish gender roles.
00:44:23
Speaker
And ironically, it's kind of interesting because on the feminist side between like liberal feminists and a lot of radical feminists, you're seeing a split and they both believe in abolishing the gender binary, but for different reasons.
Recalibrating Gender Roles for Positivity
00:44:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:35
Speaker
Where like the radical feminists say there's no such thing as gender.
00:44:40
Speaker
Gender is a completely made up social construct.
00:44:42
Speaker
It has nothing to do with who you are and has nothing to do with your biology.
00:44:46
Speaker
And then on the liberal feminist side, they're saying gender is an innate sense of being.
00:44:50
Speaker
It has nothing to do with your biology.
00:44:51
Speaker
So you can be whatever gender you want to be.
00:44:53
Speaker
Right.
00:44:53
Speaker
So there's there's sort of a rift there.
00:44:57
Speaker
And but I also but I think that.
00:45:00
Speaker
The way I would think about it, at least in terms of FDS, how we've reconciled the idea of gender, is more or less gender is a peace treaty between men and women to a certain extent, right?
00:45:12
Speaker
And I think what you were saying before where a lot of the men's rights activists and their complaints and the
00:45:22
Speaker
general trend towards boys feeling useless and being useless is because we completely tore up the old gender, gender treaty between men and women.
00:45:31
Speaker
And I would, I would almost say this applies more so to heterosexual men and women, um, of which that is the majority of the population, but we didn't give, um,
00:45:41
Speaker
in the absence of the old gender treaty, a new way for boys to be.
00:45:45
Speaker
So then boys just became useless because they didn't know how to be.
00:45:48
Speaker
And in that uselessness, they became depressed.
00:45:50
Speaker
And in that uselessness, they got angry and they started being like, feminists are the problem with everything.
00:45:54
Speaker
Everything that's wrong in society is because of female, you know, because they don't have anything to focus on and anything to...
00:46:03
Speaker
Aspire to right.
00:46:04
Speaker
That's so right.
00:46:05
Speaker
And I think as well that we're teaching our young girls that femininity is inherently bad And I think this is something that liberal feminists are doing by accident because they want they see ironically they subconsciously see male male leaning activities and hobbies and Careerism is like the absolute way to prove your worth and they're accidentally disregarding the innate
00:46:32
Speaker
awesomeness of femininity and as well for the boys, because we're lacking these gender roles, these men's rights activists are constantly screaming and kicking about, they don't have a place, they're not allowed to be masculine, yada, yada, yada.
00:46:46
Speaker
And so I think we need to, I think we actually need to reinstall a new gender code.
00:46:52
Speaker
And I think for boys that role includes their inherent masculinity and it includes two things, being the protector, most importantly,
00:47:01
Speaker
defending women against other boys, and that's what I'm teaching them in the school, and providing.
00:47:08
Speaker
And I think that's really important because we're going to be raising boys who are in line with their natural, healthy masculinity.
00:47:17
Speaker
They're going to know how to express their natural, healthy masculinity.
00:47:20
Speaker
They're not going to look down on femininity, and they're going to be proud
00:47:24
Speaker
to serve and protect.
00:47:26
Speaker
And they're going to make great husbands, great fathers, great peacemakers in society because they're going along with the internal narrative that their job is to be the hero.
00:47:37
Speaker
It's to do great things.
00:47:39
Speaker
It's to do great things for your community and your society and protect people and love people and nurture people.
00:47:45
Speaker
And that's the gender role for boys that I'm trying to instill.
00:47:49
Speaker
I love that.
00:47:51
Speaker
I think, so on the one hand, I don't really blame feminists, liberal feminists or radical feminists who are suspicious of gender roles, because historically speaking, gender, it's true, I do want to acknowledge that gender roles historically have been used to suppress women.
00:48:07
Speaker
Inslave women.
00:48:08
Speaker
You know,
00:48:09
Speaker
enslaved women, gender roles, for example, like, oh, women are like mentally inferior, like only good for like washing, you know, your fucking skid marks out of your underwear and that sort of thing.
00:48:18
Speaker
And historically, gender roles have been very much like men are superior, women are inferior and relegating women to domestic labor and not being able to maximize their own potential.
00:48:30
Speaker
Right.
00:48:30
Speaker
And so in this push to abolish gender roles, which are seen as oppressive,
00:48:36
Speaker
They I don't know, there's been these sort of unintended unintended like side effects.
00:48:40
Speaker
Right.
00:48:42
Speaker
And also cruel to LGBTQ people, because there are people that are, you know, there's their gender nonconforming.
00:48:49
Speaker
Right.
00:48:49
Speaker
They don't necessarily for whatever reason, they didn't get the programming that the rest of us got that makes us.
00:48:55
Speaker
You know, have, I guess, typical behaviors for our sex.
00:48:59
Speaker
So I think with the old gender role system, there were men that felt that that fell outside of that.
00:49:04
Speaker
They were demonized and bullied for expressing anything feminine, right?
00:49:08
Speaker
Exactly, because femininity was seen as inferior.
00:49:10
Speaker
So if a man like wore a dress.
00:49:12
Speaker
He would be seen as like a woman and that is worthy of shame.
00:49:15
Speaker
You're like a woman.
00:49:16
Speaker
Women are bad.
00:49:17
Speaker
Therefore you're bad.
00:49:18
Speaker
That kind of thing.
00:49:19
Speaker
Right.
00:49:19
Speaker
And so, like you said, I think we need to, you know, and the other thing that's worth remembering is like gender roles have not been the exact same for all of human history.
00:49:27
Speaker
Right.
00:49:28
Speaker
And even different cultures, different,
00:49:30
Speaker
different cultures have different gender roles right and so gender roles are fluid like we can we as a society we can recalibrate gender roles such that they are not like oppressive to like I don't think gender non-conforming people should be punished like they should be free to you know definitely not they I think all people should be free to choose their gender and I think in the school you know like little boys sometimes they love wearing dresses and we always always support that because there's nothing wrong about wearing a dress
00:50:00
Speaker
And I think if someone is gender non-conforming, that is really special and that should be on it.
00:50:06
Speaker
And we have to just, you know, we just have to tweak the roles a little bit.
00:50:10
Speaker
I don't think gender roles are something we need to be afraid of because whether we agree with them or not, they will exist always.
00:50:17
Speaker
And so we are wasting all this time constantly trying to abolish them when we could make them into an actually a beautiful, harmonious thing that
00:50:27
Speaker
help us learn our differences and use that to work together in harmony.
00:50:31
Speaker
So that's my take on gender role.
00:50:35
Speaker
Definitely.
00:50:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:35
Speaker
So basically like, it's not that gender roles are bad.
00:50:39
Speaker
It's the patriarchal gender roles that are bad.
00:50:41
Speaker
And so we can- Yes, that specifically.
00:50:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:44
Speaker
And so we can recalibrate gender roles such that they can be like feminist gender roles.
00:50:49
Speaker
It's possible for gender roles to be feminist, right?
00:50:51
Speaker
Like you said, where the girls are the princesses, they're like the royalty, they're in charge, you know, they exert.
00:50:57
Speaker
Their words are their powers, they have decisions, their groups follow them, they can influence people, that is the main thing, they have the power to influence their society.
00:51:07
Speaker
And that's what we're teaching them.
00:51:10
Speaker
And I think, yeah, that's amazing.
00:51:12
Speaker
I'm so happy.
00:51:12
Speaker
I'm like beaming right now.
00:51:13
Speaker
I think that's amazing.
00:51:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:15
Speaker
And I think it's really beautiful because it's just the polar opposite to all this aggression we're getting within our society and every part of our life is polarized where even something like parenting and gender roles, it's like such a hot topic because there's so much controversy and aggression.
00:51:35
Speaker
But I think when we approach it with this mind frame,
00:51:37
Speaker
We can be a lot softer and a lot gentler and really honor the child.
00:51:41
Speaker
And we can say, you know, we're creating new gender roles for boys and girls that celebrates them, who lets them be elevated to the best behavior and lets them really be empowered to be themselves and be who they are and take action and know that they are able to influence their society in a really magnificent way.
00:52:01
Speaker
Amazing.
00:52:03
Speaker
How do we actually implement this?
00:52:05
Speaker
Because we've talked about how this would work theoretically, but can you give us maybe examples on how parents could maybe implement this in sort of day-to-day interactions?
00:52:14
Speaker
Yeah, sure.
00:52:14
Speaker
So I really like... I would take the case we've been talking about where a boy's been bullying a girl and we can just tell another boy to say, save her, save her crown, save her wand, save her toy, go, go, go, fight for her, protect her.
00:52:33
Speaker
And we don't have to be afraid or ashamed of saying these words.
00:52:36
Speaker
We can shout at the top of our lungs, fight for her, protect her.
00:52:40
Speaker
And then they go and they roughhouse together and we say, good job.
00:52:44
Speaker
You're so amazing for doing that.
00:52:46
Speaker
I love that about you.
00:52:47
Speaker
And you're giving them all this praise about, um, correct behavior.
00:52:51
Speaker
And then they feel really validated.
00:52:53
Speaker
They feel excited.
00:52:54
Speaker
They feel elated.
00:52:55
Speaker
They feel pleased.
00:52:56
Speaker
They're excited to do more protecting than,
00:53:00
Speaker
You can do other things like enforce body autonomy.
Teaching Children Autonomy and Online Safety
00:53:03
Speaker
And if you see someone bothering someone else, you can say, I don't think this person likes that.
00:53:10
Speaker
Do you think you could stop and maybe go play with someone else?
00:53:14
Speaker
Or you could say to a young person who is getting a lot of harassment and they need to learn to say those words for themselves, you can just get down to their level and look at them and you can just say, you can tell them to stop.
00:53:29
Speaker
And then they can be like, wow, I can't tell them to stop.
00:53:32
Speaker
And you may even be a little more firm.
00:53:33
Speaker
You can say, tell them to stop.
00:53:36
Speaker
And then they understand that that's a request that you're asking them to tell the other person to stop.
00:53:44
Speaker
And you're teaching them how to enforce their boundaries without doing it for them.
00:53:48
Speaker
You want to teach the children to do it for themselves.
00:53:50
Speaker
So you can say, tell this person, I don't like that.
00:53:55
Speaker
Stop right now.
00:53:57
Speaker
Or, could you please stop that?
00:53:58
Speaker
I don't really like that.
00:53:59
Speaker
Or, you're being too rough.
00:54:02
Speaker
You're being too aggressive.
00:54:04
Speaker
You're hurting me.
00:54:05
Speaker
You're scaring me.
00:54:06
Speaker
You're being too aggressive.
00:54:07
Speaker
Can you please go play with another boy or girl or someone else?
00:54:12
Speaker
So what are your thoughts?
00:54:14
Speaker
As they grow older, the motivations become less about trying to please people and more about like sexual success, as we've noticed.
00:54:24
Speaker
And that when they don't have sexual success, that gives rise to things like the red pill or the incel movement where they
00:54:32
Speaker
they feel like they were quote unquote white knighting is what white knighting is the term for what you basically described, which is like being a hero.
00:54:41
Speaker
Or simping.
00:54:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:43
Speaker
And girls didn't respond by throwing them pussy.
00:54:46
Speaker
So how do you at that age then change the reward system in their mind?
00:54:53
Speaker
Because the reward system is no longer about pleasing people.
00:54:56
Speaker
It's about, you know,
00:54:58
Speaker
getting sex.
00:55:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's really important.
00:55:01
Speaker
And I think it's important to note that, um, in childhood development, it shifts from being a parent or guardian based, um, based approval.
00:55:12
Speaker
And then they move to seek the approval of their peers a lot more.
00:55:15
Speaker
So they go from, you know, the, the world is at your feet and you're basically like their deity to they couldn't give a shit about you.
00:55:24
Speaker
And instead all of their focus is on getting their peers,
00:55:28
Speaker
to give them approval.
00:55:30
Speaker
And I think this is really important to acknowledge how damaging the internet is and how damaging pornography is.
00:55:39
Speaker
For my children, there's going to be a zero internet in the private rooms policy.
00:55:45
Speaker
The internet use is only for public spaces in the lounge where I can see at all times with my own eyes exactly what content they're looking at
00:55:55
Speaker
because we all know how the internet radicalizes millions and millions of boys every day from the age of 11, sometimes even younger.
00:56:05
Speaker
So we have a zero internet policy unless it is for educational purposes.
00:56:10
Speaker
And if it's for social entertainment purposes, it's done within full view of an adult and only between certain hours of the day.
00:56:19
Speaker
So they're not getting oversaturated with
00:56:22
Speaker
Do you think would only occur if they had the internet?
00:56:24
Speaker
And the only reason I'm pushing back on this is because, you know, pre-internet there was still, I don't know if they were as defined as a group called the incels.
00:56:33
Speaker
They might've just been called losers, like cool or cool or nerds or something like that.
00:56:38
Speaker
But they've always kind of been around guys who weren't sexually successful.
00:56:42
Speaker
who then go on to try to reshape the world in a way that makes them more sexually successful.
00:56:49
Speaker
So you see a lot of these guys make like those Hollywood movies where the schlumpy nerdy guy gets the girl.
00:56:55
Speaker
Oh yeah, too many of those movies.
00:56:57
Speaker
Like every Adam Sandler movie, every Seth Rogen movie.
00:57:00
Speaker
Yeah, and honestly, like that's a trope that legit pisses a lot of FDS people off because these guys have no redeeming qualities, but for some reason...
00:57:10
Speaker
the way they're often written is that they're, they're the underdog and that they deserve a woman just because they learn basic life skills or they're not as, as big as a jerk as the opponent.
00:57:23
Speaker
Right.
00:57:26
Speaker
So I don't know.
00:57:28
Speaker
I think having the standard from such a young age where we're teaching body autonomy, autonomy, they're not going to feel entitled to a woman's body because they've been taught from such a young age that they're not allowed to,
00:57:41
Speaker
hit a girl or even touch a girl when she doesn't want and teaching things like, oh, you didn't ask for that hug.
00:57:48
Speaker
Do you just want to make sure they're okay?
00:57:50
Speaker
And things like, do you want to high five, a fist bump or a hug and teaching that you need permission to touch other people's bodies and teaching them that girls are something to be
00:58:02
Speaker
protected, they're not a prize, they're not something to win or obtain, they're something to be... You need to earn their approval.
00:58:09
Speaker
Yes, you need to.
00:58:10
Speaker
Earn their respect.
00:58:11
Speaker
You need to earn their respect and you need to earn the right to touch them in a platonic or romantic way.
00:58:16
Speaker
So I think that's really important.
00:58:17
Speaker
And then secondly, I think the thing that parents have to be most afraid of is the internet.
00:58:24
Speaker
I think you can raise your children however you want, but the internet is what's going to ruin your young boys for certain.
00:58:31
Speaker
So just
00:58:32
Speaker
ensuring that all of their content, and I mean all of their content and media, you know exactly what is feeding their psyche when you're not around, when you're around.
00:58:42
Speaker
You want to know exactly what kind of internet media is making its way into your child's world and influencing them because I think that the internet for young boys is the most pervasive and aggressive way of programming men to be
00:59:00
Speaker
incels and have this aggression towards women.
00:59:04
Speaker
So I think if we just take that out, it would get a lot better.
00:59:08
Speaker
It explains their sexual failure in a way that the rest of society
Addressing Men's Frustrations with Societal Norms
00:59:12
Speaker
is not.
00:59:12
Speaker
The rest of society is doing the virtue signaling thing, which we at FDS hate because we feel like it accomplishes nothing.
00:59:20
Speaker
One, it makes women unhappy because we have all these men who are not living up to our real expectations of them.
00:59:27
Speaker
They think, like, if I'm just a nice guy, I should be able to get a woman.
00:59:30
Speaker
And then it makes men upset because they feel like, well, I'm doing all the right things.
00:59:33
Speaker
Why aren't these girls like having sex with me?
00:59:35
Speaker
And then they get pissed off and then they become two or they become incels or they become red pillars because the red pillars gives them a script in the absence of anything else, anything else real.
00:59:46
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good point because a lot of the reason why incels and red pillars are drawn to those communities anyways, it's because they feel that they're not, you know, included or included.
00:59:56
Speaker
They're not, they feel, uh, their masculinity is bad.
00:59:59
Speaker
They need a place.
01:00:00
Speaker
They want a place.
01:00:02
Speaker
Yeah, they've been told that masculinity is bad or they feel that, yeah, they haven't received like the validation or they've been shamed or they've been, you know, as it's tough because it's hard for me to feel like compassion for incels, honestly.
01:00:18
Speaker
Because there's only so much.
01:00:20
Speaker
Because like by the time that they're adults, it's like, okay, you know, you're an adult, like you have to.
01:00:25
Speaker
You have to realize that A plus B doesn't always equal C. Like you have to realize that the world is nuanced.
01:00:30
Speaker
Then they want everything to be a game.
01:00:33
Speaker
Yeah, and I also want to draw the line.
01:00:34
Speaker
There's a difference between interacting with adult men and male children.
01:00:38
Speaker
Because male children, they're young, they're innocent, they're pure, they haven't transgressed.
01:00:44
Speaker
They're like a four or five years old boy, right?
01:00:47
Speaker
He's not born with sin, right?
01:00:49
Speaker
And so by the time a guy is an adult, he's like... And even if the reason why he's done bad things is because of socialization and so on, you're still responsible for...
01:01:00
Speaker
the bad things that you do right so um it's i for women listening to this who are thinking that this is like um i don't know like male pandering or something like that where i do want to point out there's very different talking about male children versus adult yeah for this when they're adults like that is not our job as women when it's once they're our job if they haven't figured it out they will they will learn through the harsh reality of repeated failure if we're doing our job right at fds
01:01:26
Speaker
where they'll just learn like, why do all these girls keep hanging up on me and disappearing?
01:01:31
Speaker
Well...
01:01:32
Speaker
It's because you're being an asshole.
01:01:34
Speaker
Time to go back to the drawing.
01:01:35
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:35
Speaker
Time to go back to the drawing board.
01:01:36
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:36
Speaker
I feel like a lot of like, we've reached a point with like peak feminism where there's only so many think pieces.
01:01:42
Speaker
There's only so many, only so many, like, you know, there's only so much that women can do to change low value men.
01:01:49
Speaker
Like low value men just don't care.
01:01:51
Speaker
Like for the people who matter for the, for the, for the men where it matters the most, like the most misogynistic men, they don't care what women say or think.
01:01:59
Speaker
And so they're not going to listen to women.
01:02:01
Speaker
Right.
01:02:01
Speaker
The only way that they're,
01:02:03
Speaker
The only way that they're going to change is by listening to other men.
01:02:06
Speaker
And that's why, you know, it's so important to raise boys from a very young age and lay that groundwork, like you said, about, you know, entitlement.
01:02:12
Speaker
Permission.
01:02:14
Speaker
A lot of boys are raised, you know, permission, like they need to be raised from a very young age to not feel entitled to women and to see themselves as a hero and protecting women, seeing women as sacred and so on, so that they go out and they can socialize other boys to be that way as well.
Choosing High-Value Men and Episode Conclusion
01:02:30
Speaker
Do you think, like, I would actually make the point that the best thing we can do as women is to pick high-value men as partners in the first place.
01:02:39
Speaker
Oh, yes.
01:02:40
Speaker
Yes, 100%.
01:02:40
Speaker
100%.
01:02:41
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:41
Speaker
So, and the reason I say that is because there's been a push on both sides of the political spectrum.
01:02:48
Speaker
The old traditional patriarchal model was...
01:02:51
Speaker
pressuring women to always submit to men a lot of times to our detriment.
01:02:55
Speaker
The leftist model, the more liberal model has the quote unquote communicate aspect of it where we're doing so much communicating.
01:03:04
Speaker
We're doing so much like emotional labor for men and for men who a lot of times cannot or will not reciprocate.
01:03:12
Speaker
And because I think there's a misguided understanding of how
01:03:18
Speaker
men and women learn how men learn versus how women learn.
01:03:22
Speaker
There's like this forever and ever, ever push for women to keep communicating, keep communicating and not understanding that like failure and a consequence is actually a really good teaching tool for boys as well as men, as well as grown men.
01:03:36
Speaker
Yes.
01:03:36
Speaker
They need consequences.
01:03:37
Speaker
A hundred percent.
01:03:38
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:38
Speaker
I feel like the most important thing, the two most important things for women in general to do is just one
01:03:46
Speaker
we raise our high value men into two is just to stop wasting your precious, glorious energy on low value men who are not worth it.
01:03:56
Speaker
They don't appreciate it.
01:03:58
Speaker
They're not going to change.
01:03:59
Speaker
And so I think, you know, one of the most powerful things we can do is just stop wasting our beautiful energy on these low value men.
01:04:06
Speaker
Well, thank you.
01:04:08
Speaker
Thank you so much.
01:04:10
Speaker
Thank you for having me.
01:04:11
Speaker
And that's our show.
01:04:12
Speaker
Please check out our Twitter at femdatstrat, as well as our Patreon, patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy, as well as our website at the female dating strategy.com.
01:04:22
Speaker
Thanks for listening, Queens.
01:04:23
Speaker
And for all you scrows, you have a hairline that says 45 and your maturity says zero to five.
01:04:27
Speaker
Die mad.