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Hope and Lou - Honoring Lilly-Anna and Noah
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In this deeply moving episode, we have the privilege of sitting down with Lou and Hope as they share their unique and heart-wrenching stories of love, loss, and friendship.
Lou, originally from France, met her soulmate while working in the United States. Living nearby in South Jersey, Lou and her husband Patrick embarked on the journey of parenthood during the challenging times of the pandemic in 2020. However, their joy turned to sorrow when Lou experienced a difficult pregnancy, leading to the heartbreaking news that their daughter, Lilly-Anna, would be stillborn on February 17th, 2021.
On the other hand, Hope, a native of South Jersey, had a relatively uncomplicated pregnancy and birth with her son, Noah, born on March 24th, 2017. Tragically, Noah's life took a devastating turn when he contracted bacterial meningitis shortly after birth, ultimately losing his battle with the infection.
The bond between Lou and Hope is one of resilience and compassion, forged through shared experiences of unimaginable loss. Their friendship blossomed in a unique manner that is sure to touch your heart as you listen to their stories.
We are grateful to Lou and Hope for their courage in opening up and sharing their journeys with us. Their strength and grace serve as a beacon of hope and inspiration to all who may be facing similar challenges.
Thank you, Hope and Lou, for entrusting us with your stories.
You can find out more about the Blindsided Podcast on our WEBSITE
If you would like to share your story with us on the podcast, please send us an email at storyteller@theblindsided.com
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, I'm Nicole and I'm Desiree. We are both mothers who run a support group for perinatal loss. Through our group, we have met many wonderful families and have had the honor of hearing about and sometimes meeting their beautiful babies. We noticed that families feel relief when they can share openly and feel seen when they meet others who are telling similar stories.
Invitation to Share Stories of Grief and Love
00:00:19
Speaker
So we created this podcast as a space for families to share the stories of their babies.
00:00:23
Speaker
We want to honor and remember these children. We want to help you navigate your life after loss. And most importantly, we want each story to give you hope. So please join us as we share these stories of grief and love. Welcome to the Blindsided Podcast. Welcome to the Blindsided Podcast. We're your hosts, Desiree and Nicole.
00:00:43
Speaker
Hi. Hi. Today we're
Guests Lou and Hope Join the Podcast
00:00:46
Speaker
here with Lou and Hope, two moms who met in a very unique way after the loss of their babies. I first met Lou in the hospital after her daughter, Lilliana, was born to take photos for her and her husband. I was honored to have been invited to attend Lilliana's funeral as well. Lou then attended our support group and eventually brought along Hope, who shared with us all about her precious son, Noah. Ladies, thank you so much for being here today and sharing the story of your friendship and your babies with us. Hi, guys. Hello.
Lou's Background and Life Journey
00:01:14
Speaker
So Lu, can we start with you and hear first more about yourself? Sure. So my name is Lu. Lu is on, but Lu is easier for everybody. I'm originally from France, so I apologize for any words that you guys can't truly understand or the accent. But I came in the US in 2016, and like I always say, I came for work and I stayed for love.
00:01:42
Speaker
because I met my husband Patrick at work. I was like about six months in my job, I guess. And I met him in the hallway. And for me it was, I think for both of us, but I don't know if he's gonna admit it. For me it was, you know, kind of love at first sight. And yeah.
00:02:04
Speaker
So that's how I came here. I guess a few years after we met, we had moved in together and then we bought a house.
00:02:18
Speaker
And then COVID hit and I get pregnant. Was not really planned, but we were super, super, super happy.
Lilliana's Story: Pregnancy and Stillbirth
00:02:30
Speaker
Like I said, it was COVID time, so we're just with each other all the time. It was a great time too.
00:02:38
Speaker
to learn about this pregnancy with her. Can you share with us the story of your pregnancy and birth with Liliana? Sure. Pregnancy itself was very uneventful as far as the medical side. I got all my checkups done, the regular ones, not obviously the more extensive ones. I just had to do two address sounds for
00:03:08
Speaker
the anatomy scan because she was clipped around and after an hour just give up on trying to get her spine.
00:03:16
Speaker
So I had to do two, but everything was fine for the book. And towards the end, like third trimester, I was done. She was always pretty much since like week 16 or 20, she was head down and she was super, super, super low. I was struggling to walk at the end.
00:03:42
Speaker
Getting out of the couch was such such a struggle. I was like almost crying every time Going up the stairs even worse. But anyway Long story short come like week 39 Almost 39 weeks. I go to my OB For the checkup and I tell him hey, I'm I'm very like I hope she's coming because I
00:04:09
Speaker
I'm very tired. I'm very done. I'm hurting everywhere. My hips, I don't know. I don't think it happens to everyone, but my hips hurt so, so, so, so bad on the sides. I feel like kind of a whole old person, you know, when they just stay on the side too long. But that happened like just staying on my sides at night for like 10 minutes.
00:04:33
Speaker
Um, and he was like, you know, if I induce you right now, you might end up, you know, four days in neighbor because you're so not dilated at all. So I was like, okay. Uh, but he also mentioned that 39 weeks is a good time to, you know, start thinking about induction at this point. I was probably 38 and four days.
00:04:55
Speaker
Um, so basically told me, Hey, come next Tuesday, uh, which was 39 and three days and see if, um, or something like this and see if, you know, if anything has moved and would induce you at that, at that point. Uh, so the weekend goes on and it was, um, so she was due.
00:05:19
Speaker
February 21st and it was one of this holiday. I can't remember in February what it was but the
Hospital Experience and Delivery of Lilliana
00:05:29
Speaker
Monday we were, I mean my husband was off so we spent the entire Monday like playing Mario games and trying to you know
00:05:37
Speaker
wait for this Tuesday morning. Monday nights, I was feeling weird. I was very upset, very like pissed off for some reason. Hurting, hurting not anything specific, but I was just like, I was done. I was, it was too much. She was moving great. Nothing there.
00:05:59
Speaker
I go to bed, I photo sleep around like midnight or something. And usually the last trimester, I would wake up every single hour on the dot to go to the bathroom and then flip on the other side. That was my night routine. And this night I wake up, it's 4am, so I did not wake up for four hours.
00:06:23
Speaker
I wake up and I'm like, Oh, it's weird. Well, okay. Let me go to the bathroom. I sit on the toilet and I, as soon as I sit on the toilet, I feel like super weird movement, like kind of like she was stretching, like, like doing a movement. I mean, people won't be able to see what I'm doing, but, uh, like she's stretching her legs and arms.
00:06:48
Speaker
Yeah, very certain movement like this and then nothing else and then it stopped. I mean, I guess just before it felt like a huge move and then this movement.
00:07:00
Speaker
And then it stopped. So I was like, okay. I went to wake up my husband and I told him and he's like, do you want to go to the ER? Do you want to go and get checked? And I'm like, I don't know. Maybe she just, she was in a weird position and she moved. Let me go eat something and see if something happens. She was very reactive to me eating or drinking something cold. So I was going to do that.
00:07:25
Speaker
I did, and she did not, obviously, she did not react. I decided to lay down on my side on the couch to see if it would come, and I was so exhausted that I fell asleep. I regret folding asleep, but that's what happened, and I wake up around 8.
00:07:47
Speaker
said nothing, no movements. So at this point I told my husband and we called the OB. At first the girl on the phone was like, okay, you can come in earlier because I had my appointment that day. And then a nurse calls me back.
00:08:04
Speaker
Um, and she's like, uh, you might want to come like right now and come to this office, another office, um, because we have a non-stressed desk there. So come to this one instead and come now. It's like, okay. So now I'm really stressing out. Um, so my husband, we, we get dressed and we, uh, we didn't even take our, you know, clothes for the hospital or anything. We just left and.
00:08:34
Speaker
We arrive at the office. At this point he didn't have any breakfast or anything. So he's like, okay. And it was still COVID time. So he was not allowed in the room in the OB. So he's like, okay, let me go grab a sandwich. And I come right back. So I go in and she starts by, you know, trying to get the doctor working. So she's just scanning me and she's not finding anything. And Liana was super easy to find every single time. So I was like,
00:09:03
Speaker
Okay, something really is happening, but at this point I did not want to believe anything else. I started feeding it, but I did not want to believe it. So I was like, okay, it's okay. It's fine. And then the OB that was in the office, she was kind of calm and trying not to lose it. I think she knew.
Decisions and Reflections on Lilliana's Funeral
00:09:24
Speaker
And she told me, you know what? We're not going to do NST. You're just going to go right to the hospital and you're just, I'm going to call them. You go to an MD and, uh, and they're going to take you in. She didn't say anything else. She just say you go now. Wow. Yeah. So, um, sorry, it's okay. It's okay. So we go in and they have to do better in the hospitals for this because
00:09:54
Speaker
We had to do the entire like, you know, checking in. What's your name? What's your, you know, insurance and stuff like this. Like for, we were like there for like 15 minutes before we even went upstairs.
00:10:08
Speaker
they have to do better there because looking back at it, it's just like crazy to me that they would just take their time. And even once we were upstairs in LND, no one knew what was going on. And I remember, I would always remember what the lady at the desk, she was not a nurse, she was just at the desk and she like, I had this like, sweatshirt,
00:10:36
Speaker
that had a little heart and a big heart. So it was like two hearts. And she's like, oh, your sweatshirt is so sweet, so cute. And I was like, okay, cool. Can I get checked? Like, I don't care how much it looks like right now. Can I get a room? And then they take me in and then, oh, we're going to take your weight.
00:11:01
Speaker
Okay, so let's go. What does what the F it doesn't freaking matter my weight right now. Um, so anyway, they take my weight, then I go back to the room, then they tell me undress the whole thing. And then
00:11:21
Speaker
The nurse comes in, I think she was a young nurse, super young, and she started doing the Doppler again. Can't find anything. And then that's when she calls, I guess, more experienced nurse, Dawn, love her. I'm pretty sure she's going to listen to this one.
00:11:40
Speaker
And she comes in and she tries and she cannot find anything. So at that point, I kind of saw in her eyes that something was wrong and it wasn't normal, but she really did her best to reassure me. And she called the OB on code and it was actually my OB that was at the hospital that day.
00:12:02
Speaker
He comes in and it's trying to reassure me. He didn't even know what was going on either. He was like, okay, we're just going to take a quick ultrasound. So he grabbed the machine and he does it. And really at that point, looking back at it, I really knew I fed my heart, like stop at that time because we have some kind of relationship with my OB at that point. He was so, so, so sweet, such a sweet guy. And.
00:12:28
Speaker
I look at his eyes and he looks at me. He's like, okay, we're going to ask for a better ultrasound because what I'm seeing is not very clear. Okay. And then the ultrasound tech comes in. Everybody left the room. The ultrasound tech comes in. She's by herself and she scans me and
00:12:52
Speaker
after I can tell that she's like going around my belly and she knows what's going on but she's just not saying anything trying to find her words or anything and then she's like I'm so sorry there is there is no Harvey and my husband lost it like he was like what do you mean there's no Harvey what do you mean what does that mean
00:13:14
Speaker
And he could not, at that point I was looking at the ceiling since my eye contact with my OB. And I kept on looking at the ceiling and like, I don't really believe in God or anything, but I was praying for anything. Please don't be this, please don't be this, please don't be this. And I remember I have this image of the ceiling in this little black dot on the ceiling.
00:13:39
Speaker
And that was it. And she's like, I'm going to call you OB for him to come back. And you've discussed with him and she didn't want to leave us like this, but she was alone and she didn't know what to do. And she, you know, she's just kind of just a technician. She can't do more than this. So she left and we were left by herself for a good five minutes. And then my OB comes in with Dawn and, um,
00:14:07
Speaker
And I just, I think I screamed at that point. That's when I realized what was going on really. And, and, and my husband was super pissed. Um, at first that's, I guess the best way to describe it. It was like, what happened? What happened? What happened? Obviously in shock. And, and I was just, okay, what's next? What do we do now? And, um, yeah, they just kind of laid out the,
00:14:37
Speaker
the options, and I'm so grateful for the options he gave me, because the first thing you think of is like, okay, she needs to get out, I need a C-section, because it's still not normal that you don't, I feel like your brain just goes into like, okay, emergency situation, it's not normal, so I guess I'm gonna have a C-section right now. And he pushed back and he was like, you know, you can,
00:15:04
Speaker
But my advice to you is to, if possible, because she's head down, you're far along. My advice to you is to try to be induced because for your body is better. And he didn't say it, but now that I did it, I know why he said it. And I know why he kind of pushed for that because I loved, and it's so weird to say, I loved my daily read with her.
00:15:34
Speaker
Um, I obviously did not like the pain and everything, but I love that I was able to really deliver her. Cause I mean, we might, I don't know if we're going to have time to talk about the next one, but I had a C-section after. So, uh, I, I love that I was able to do that with her.
00:15:55
Speaker
I'm sorry that you were left in the room. I didn't know any of that, that you were left in the room with just the ultrasound technician and that no one stayed with you. Yeah. It's kind of strange they didn't explain it more too, because you think they're trying to get the fetal monitor on, they don't find hearts. So then they go to the ultrasounds that they didn't see it clearly.
00:16:16
Speaker
Yeah. And maybe they say something else, but I think I was just like, okay, you, okay, let's go. Like, it was too slow for me. Like, I don't, and I'm not specifically blaming anybody. It's just the process. And I feel like if they kind of knew, or if they had suspicion, they should have rushed everything. Uh, even though nothing was to be done at that point. And I know that, but.
00:16:47
Speaker
it's just a feeling of like being taken care of in a very normal way and very how let's just take our time when you are just waiting for the answer that you don't want to hear. Yeah, yeah, the we actually give the feedback after to the nurses and we told them hey, if
00:17:12
Speaker
For any further, anybody that happens after that, please make sure that you don't leave the people in the room by themselves. Yeah. And you explain better. I liked what you said about delivering her too, like taking the time to be induced because now you have that memory. And like you said, you loved her delivery. So it gave you more memories with her. Yeah. And that was exactly the point that, no, I'm so thankful that he pushed for this because
00:17:43
Speaker
The way I took it, when he said that, I was like, okay, I trust you. And then when I went through it, I was taking, taking it as a, as just more time with her. It's just me and her. And, and I completely understand people who just choose C-section at that point, because you're so in shock. You just want to get rid of this feeding. You want to get rid of what's going on.
00:18:10
Speaker
And in some cases they have to have C-sections, but if that would be like maybe one piece of advice is if you have the option to go for a vaginal delivery, try to do so because it really gives you more time with your baby and a little bit more time I guess to process what's going on. At first I was not,
00:18:37
Speaker
The OB was like, do you want pain medicine? Do you want this, this? Cause I got induced at four PM and I did not deliver her before two PM the next day. And I, and I was, and I had back, uh, back contractions, back pain very bad. And I did not want any medication until like 11 or 12, 11 PM or 12. Cause I wanted to like, somehow I wanted to take the pain and make it physical and
00:19:07
Speaker
Yeah, but yeah, it's it's I appreciate the time I had just with her. After you delivered her, I know I got to come in and do pictures. But did you keep her in the room with you for a while? No, and I don't read it.
Hope's Family and Rainbow Baby
00:19:23
Speaker
But I mean, the reason why we didn't do it, I can't really explain. I think it's more of a
00:19:30
Speaker
here and maybe my husband was not very comfortable with the idea and he's very sensitive and that's what I love about him. So seeing her all the time was too much. He needed time to okay we see her and then
00:19:50
Speaker
OK, take her back. And we also had such a great medical team after that. We had Jesse. She's amazing. And Kim, we knew that she was well taken care of. She told us we're keeping her in the room with us. Everybody keeps coming and checking on her.
00:20:10
Speaker
even though there's nothing to check on, we had so much reassurance from the medical team that we're like, okay, she's safe with other people. So we didn't feel the need to keep her with us at that point. And we kind of took this as, okay.
00:20:27
Speaker
We need some time to process what's going on and to not be, we obviously overwhelmed with sadness, but to take some time to breathe and then ask them. And she told us, you asked us to take her back. We take her back. Five minutes later, you want her back in. We just take her back in like anything you want.
00:20:48
Speaker
we can do back and forth. It's okay. So the fact that they gave us this option was truly amazing because we were able to do what we felt like doing at the time. That's really, that's really sweet. Yeah. Yeah. When is her birthday, her exact birthday? So she was born, uh, she was in juice on February 16 and born on February 17, 2021.
00:21:15
Speaker
My husband liked to keep February 15 as his date because that was her last day with us.
00:21:23
Speaker
Oh, you know, our last memories with when we were playing Mario games on the couch and I was beating his ass. He doesn't know. Well, thank you for sharing. Yeah. About that. Hope, can you tell us about yourself and your family? Yeah, I have four kids total now. So I have Noah, that past is my oldest and I have Thomas.
00:21:45
Speaker
Kylie and my son Jesse. I got pregnant with Noah when I was 20 and I had him at 21. And then I got pregnant again four months after Noah passed away with my son Thomas. So it's my rainbow. He's my biggest blessing really. But yeah, I had three kids in three years after I lost Noah and I've been with my husband for
00:22:15
Speaker
almost 11 years now. And yeah, so can you tell us about Noah and your his life?
Noah's Story: Life and Loss
00:22:22
Speaker
Yeah, so his his birthday is actually tomorrow. So if I'm a little extra emotional, don't mind me. Okay. Um, yeah, so I got pregnant with Noah in the summer. And he was due March 31. And I had a completely normal pregnancy, literally
00:22:43
Speaker
nothing wrong ever. I went to one of my last checkups. I was 38 weeks and six days and they were like, have you been having any contractions? Like, do you feel anything? And I was like, no, nothing. So my nurse was like, oh, you're probably going to go to 41 weeks. And I was like, oh, thank you.
00:23:12
Speaker
So I, I got checked. And I think I was like, two or three centimeters dilated, actually. So that, oh, wow, very wrong. And they gave me a membrane sweep. They were like, maybe you'll go into labor, maybe you won't like, you know, regardless, we'll see you in another week. So I
00:23:38
Speaker
was like contracting all day after and just generally uncomfy. Had no idea what any of it was supposed to feel like because it was my first baby.
00:23:49
Speaker
So I just went to bed. I was really uncomfortable all night having summer cramps just in and out of the bathroom. And then I woke up around like probably five o'clock in the morning just to go to the bathroom. And when I sat down, I felt trickling and I was like, Oh, that's not me like that. That's my water. So I woke up my
00:24:14
Speaker
husband and I was like, Hey, like not to stress you out, but I do think my water broke. Um, and he's like, are you sure? And then it just started gushing out. I was like, yeah, like a pretty positive that's that, but that's what's happening. Um, so, uh, we went right to the hospital and my water was just continually breaking. That was the strangest feeling mucus plug coming out all that fun, nasty stuff.
00:24:43
Speaker
So I obviously got sent right up, which was nice. And then I labored for like 14 hours after that. And he was born around nine o'clock at night. And he was absolutely perfect. Just the most beautiful little baby.
00:25:06
Speaker
And everything was seemingly normal after that. We got sent home. He was just a little jaundiced at the hospital. And then I think we had, we got sent home late from the hospital. So we had like one full day at home. And then we had like a pediatrician appointment the next morning.
00:25:34
Speaker
And we got up that morning and it was just like, you could immediately tell something was wrong with him. He was just nonstop crying, wouldn't eat, kept like pooping. And he was like, so yellow, like incredibly yellow. And we were just like, all right, like we'll go to the pediatrician. Like it's probably just the jaundice. We go to the pediatrician.
00:25:59
Speaker
And the pediatrician was like, he's really lethargic. I'm not really comfortable. She had a tongue tie. So she cut that right in the office and he still really wouldn't eat. So she, from there referred us to the hospital and we went to the hospital and just basically from there, it was kind of all downhill, all happening so fast. And, um,
00:26:28
Speaker
me and my husband were together just kind of terrified because we had no idea what was going on with our little baby and he was just having these weird motions with his hands which now they told us was his loss of brain function but at the time they just thought were like seizures or something and so we the hospital we were at like was not equipped for
00:26:57
Speaker
the situation. So they transferred us to Dupont in Delaware. And we went, we got admitted. They got my son set up in the NICU. And then they sent us home for the night. And then when we came back, the next day, they had run
00:27:24
Speaker
tests on him. They knew it was probably some sort of infection. He had had like a spinal tap done. He didn't even move when he got his spinal tap. But did he have a fever? Nothing. Okay. Literally nothing that would make you think anything. And then at DuPont the next day is when they told us that he had no brain activity.
00:27:50
Speaker
Oh, so that was really hard. And they told us then that it was bacterial meningitis that he had contracted. I'm so sorry, Hope. Yeah, so they had to do more testing after that because these, you know, I guess,
00:28:09
Speaker
whatever, you know, medical stuff, I have no idea. They have to test again, like, at least 24 hours later, I guess, just to really be sure that there's nothing. And we were at DuPont for like three days, I want to say.
00:28:30
Speaker
And then they had asked us, you know, did we want him to be an organ donor, which at the time I said no, just because I was like, well, this is my baby, like I want to keep him whole. Yeah, but now looking back, I probably would have changed my mind just to know that like a little piece of him could be somewhere in this world.
00:28:53
Speaker
And then from there, we got him baptized. We got to read to him. We got to take pictures with him. My family got to visit him and, you know, see him say goodbye. And then March 30th, the day before his due date is when we took him off of life support.
00:29:17
Speaker
Oh my gosh. You said they had to do testing again. You mean like the brain scan to check his brain function? Yeah. Just to see if there was anything, but there was just nothing there. And did they say like how this could have happened?
Medical Uncertainty and Commemoration of Noah
00:29:33
Speaker
Um, they told me that it was either from a UTI, which I, I didn't know that I had a UTI. I, they said it could be from anything hoop P anything.
00:29:47
Speaker
I had a lawyer look into it and he was just like, I wish that I could so badly pinpoint for you when this happened. He's like, but it's just one of those things that I cannot pinpoint for you. But looking back on my delivery and having had three more kids since then, like when my water broke, it was not clear. It was not the right color, but I never told anybody that and nobody ever picked up on that. So.
00:30:18
Speaker
They told me though, with his timeline, it likely happened somewhere from the time my water broke to him actually being delivered. Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. That's really, that's a lot. Yeah. Just back, Lou, back to you and hope you too. I wanted to ask you about this. So what did you guys do like for funerals or
00:30:44
Speaker
how did you guys commemorate their babies after they passed with your family? Um, so we decided to, I could not process anything at that point, but my husband's, uh, sister and mom, they were really helpful on that. And I could not stand the idea and I absolutely not judging anybody on this, but I personally could not send the idea of a cremation. I,
00:31:11
Speaker
I'm not huge on, obviously, cemetery and, you know, anything kind of religious, but my husband is and not big anymore, obviously, but we decided to bury her in a cemetery. And I'm glad we did this because now we really have, you know, a place to go for her. And I'm so glad that my family in law
00:31:38
Speaker
took care of everything. They just, they picked the cemetery. I grew up in an equestrian center. My parents owned an equestrian center for like, I don't know, 15 years. And my sister-in-law picked it up and she said, hey, there's horses all over the place, right? Like surrounding the cemetery. It's very peaceful. It's kind of still like a new cemetery, like, I don't know, 10, 15 years. And it's, it's
00:32:07
Speaker
peaceful and quiet so I think you guys would like this one so we said yeah we trust you I have no desire to look at it to look at a brochure or anything as a website or anything so you went you see you saw it you like it let's go and they also helped so much with the you know the funeral home and everything the one we went really was great there were
00:32:35
Speaker
So gentle, they offered to see her again, if we wanted, if we didn't want, what did we want her to wear, if we wanted her clothes back or anything. They were really super, super gentle and giving us the time we needed every time. So yeah, I really appreciate that.
00:32:53
Speaker
That's funny you said about the horses because obviously I know where she's buried and my daughter's friend, their family owns a horse farm on like a road two miles from there. And one day we went and rode horses and we rode right up to the cemetery. And there's tons of like trails back there. There's other people that ride horses back there. So your sister is your sister-in-law? Yeah. Yeah. She was right. Yeah. There's tons of horses back there. That's neat. I never knew that about your family. Yeah. And when we actually did the ceremony, when we
00:33:22
Speaker
did the I mean the day off as soon as she um well no she did not go in because we didn't see that but as soon as the ceremony was over a one horse um and I don't know the word in English I'm sorry when they you know they make a noise so that was
00:33:42
Speaker
like absolutely the best sign I could ever ask for at that moment. That's so cute. We've talked about this. Was it snowing that day for her burial? It wasn't snowing that day. It was snowing the day we left the hospital. Okay.
Bonding Over Shared Grief
00:33:58
Speaker
It was kind of snowy like on that day and the week but this day was a little bit sunny I think in the morning I remember but no it was snowing the day after it was actually a snowstorm and that's why we left the hospital we left the hospital at 6am so she was delivered at 2pm we left the hospital at 6am sorry the next morning as soon as I was cleared to walk without falling
00:34:25
Speaker
without the code being, the first time I got up to go to the bathroom, I almost fainted. So like, all of a sudden people in the room, super reactive. But anyway, as soon as I was clear to walk, my husband was like, okay, I want to get out of this place. It's gonna storm. I don't want to be stuck for two days in the hospital. So let's go. I kind of wish would have had the
00:34:52
Speaker
time, like more time to, you know, leave, not leave property, there's no way to leave property, the hospital empty handed. But yeah, and then snow is a huge, yeah, huge part of her birth, because of it. And this year, actually, for a third birthday, it snowed the day of her birthday. So, yeah.
00:35:13
Speaker
That's a cute sign. Yeah, it was really beautiful when he messaged me that I was like, Oh my God, this is amazing. Cause it snowed on my daughter's birthday too this year. And there's only two snow storms we had. So, so how about you hope? Did you have a funeral? Yeah, we, it was honestly a
00:35:31
Speaker
huge rager of a funeral not to make light of the situation. He was baptized Catholic, so we were able to have it in a Catholic church. And before we buried him, I wanted him to have a lot of stuff in his casket. So I buried him in the first onesie I ever bought when I found out that I was having a boy. It was just one of those things that I felt, you know,
00:36:00
Speaker
was right. And then he's buried with a crochet blanket that somebody made for us because they made us a big crocheted blanket and used the scraps to make him a crochet blanket. So he's buried with that. And then I had everybody write him letters and he's buried with a Hulk Hogan figurine from my brother, which is pretty cool.
00:36:25
Speaker
And just a couple other like, you know, little knick knacks and a little poo bear. Baseball's a big part of my husband's life. So before they put the dirt on top, we put a little baseball mitt that we bought for him, a little baseball in there.
00:36:42
Speaker
Yeah, the day of his funeral was, it was beautiful. It was gorgeous out. It was, I think April 5th. And it was just a beautiful sunny day. And, um, the cemetery is truly beautiful. And when we went there to see where he would be buried, I just looked at this big open field and, um, I just like to think that he's running around playing there. That kind of brings us to how you guys met.
00:37:12
Speaker
Yeah, so the day of Vienna's funeral, and we went to the cemetery, the cemetery, and I don't know if it's the same for
00:37:23
Speaker
all of them, but this one for babies, they don't have like a stone that is, how do we call that? A big headstone. They don't have a big headstone. They just have a flag just flat in the ground. Yeah. So when we, and I haven't seen to that point, I haven't seen the place at all. So we drive and we just follow
00:37:47
Speaker
whoever was in front to guide us we drive all the way to the back of the cemetery and I see like a stool or something that was meant for her for the ceremony and I see nothing else on the floor because we're just driving and it was kind of far from the road I see nothing else on the floor and I'm like she's by herself and I started like losing it I'm like she's gonna be by herself she's gonna be
00:38:16
Speaker
cold and by herself. That's all that was in my head. And I was really focused on this. And as we walk towards the spot, I see three other little headstones. And the one right next to what would be hers is Hope's son, Noah. And I see his picture. And I see his name and the date. And I'm like,
00:38:45
Speaker
She's not alone. She's not alone. She actually has a sweet little boy right next to her. And it gave me a sense of relief at that point at that time because I was like, okay, that was my fear.
00:39:01
Speaker
She's not alone. Okay. Maybe we can take a few more steps and a few weeks, few months, you know, go by and we go visit her. And every time I go and I look at this boy and I'm like, I wonder what happens.
00:39:17
Speaker
I can't stand the idea that there were other babies but I wonder what happened and somehow I feel connected to him and I feel like she is and I don't know and I'm like I look at his name and I did like a very I guess nosy thing just like his name and one thing led me to another I found her and like
00:39:38
Speaker
Hope's name and I guess it was the obituary and then I legit just contacted her on Facebook day or night and I was like, I'm so sorry to contact you that way.
00:39:53
Speaker
but I am Nidi and his mom and my daughter is very right next to your son, Noah. I can't remember what I said, but I think I felt at that point, I don't know what to say, but just so you know, I feel a connection. And I also wanted to ask her if it was okay if I bring flowers to him as well, because every time I would go to see her, I would bring flowers.
00:40:19
Speaker
I love lilies. This is my favorite flower. My daughter's name is not sped the same way. There's two L's, but lilies are my favorite flowers. And I just keep bringing lilies all the time. And I asked her, is that okay if I bring some flowers to him as well? And she's like, yes, of course. And we just, I don't know.
00:40:39
Speaker
Yeah, what were you thinking Hope when you got this message? So like to backtrack a little, Willie is February 17th and Noah's is March 30th so every year on his birthday the 24th I go and on the day he passed I go as well.
00:40:57
Speaker
and I just remember going that year and I saw Lily and I saw the flowers and she had already left flowers for Noah and I just remember feeling like this gut-wrenching feeling of like oh my god like because the ground was still fresh and everything and I just remember how I felt going there when you know there was just this fresh open patch in the ground and I just said a prayer and
00:41:26
Speaker
didn't think anything of it. And then I think it was like, June, you messaged me. And it was in my message requests, which like I never pay attention to. And it's like, obviously a foreign sounding name. And I'm like, okay, who's trying to scam?
00:41:44
Speaker
But for whatever reason, I was just like, let me open it. Let me see what they're kind of pitched to me. And then it was just this big, long, beautiful message. And I just instantly cried my eyes out because I'm a baby. You're not. I just, I don't know. It was just one of those like full circle moments for me, I guess.
00:42:09
Speaker
because there's two other little boys buried before Noah. And I remember feeling the exact same way of coming there and being like, well, who else is with him and he's by himself and he's the only little baby here. And it's just a really weird feeling thinking about your baby like that. Like even though they're not physically here, like to still think like they're going to be alone, like
00:42:34
Speaker
how am I supposed to cope with the fact that my baby's alone? But in a weird, weird way, it was just nice to be able to make that connection to somebody finally, because I do always wonder about the two other boys that are buried there.
Shared Experiences and Friendship in Healing
00:42:51
Speaker
It was just finally nice to, I don't know, I never had anybody really to relate to in my life that had
00:42:58
Speaker
infant loss like my mom lost a baby before I was born but our losses are two different losses and I don't know just for like the freshness of my grief and where I was at in my journey with my grief to meet Lou was like genuinely such a blessing and even now like all these years later like our friendship is more than just like grief we genuinely have similar interests we have
00:43:25
Speaker
the same sense of humor really like we're just two peas in a pod over here like I don't know like it's such a beautiful thing to be able to know that like our babies brought us together and like I just like to think that they're probably together playing and you know it's just a good feeling to know that you know you're not alone your baby's not alone like. Yeah that's beautiful.
00:43:49
Speaker
really the only time I've ever heard a story like this. It's amazing. I really believe though that they are together and like when you see them again in heaven I just feel like whoever gets to go first I just feel like you're both they're both gonna come to you you know what I mean? I just have that and then you have to send a sign down and tell us. What do you think has been the most helpful for you guys in terms of healing? Well I think obviously finding
00:44:18
Speaker
people, finding hope, finding hope, hope in both ways, but finding people that are going through the same thing, same feelings, same grief, because I lost my dad in 2020, sorry, 2010. And it's a completely different type of grief. There is nothing to compare that you can compare with for a loss of a baby. This is just not supposed to happen. And
00:44:45
Speaker
Yeah, finding people around that really understand every single feeling and if they don't go through the exact same thing or same feeling, they know why you're going through this one in particular and they know that it's for whatever reason it's normal. And yeah, I guess that was the nicest feeling I had from that was to find people.
00:45:07
Speaker
connect with people that just knew what I was going through and I could relate to and then ask questions like hey it's on the roads once you have other babies if you do how is it and is it normal that I shared that with this baby and
00:45:24
Speaker
Because it's just not the grief doesn't stop here, the grief never stops, but you live your life with that hole in your heart and then you just have to move on and everything that comes after that is and can be a struggle. So it's not just at the time of the loss, it's not just a few weeks, a month after, it's just finding bonds and finding people that just can follow you through
00:45:50
Speaker
through life. And it can be friends, it can be therapists, it can be, you know, groups, podcasts to listen. I guess that was that was nice to find people to talk to and, and laugh with it and cry with it and just go through all the emotions together. Yeah, I agree.
00:46:11
Speaker
I think my therapist was a huge, huge help in my life. And she really just, you know, made me feel okay for feeling emotions, I guess, about it. And just knowing that it's okay to sit with your grief and feel it and take it head on and that, you know, it's not, it's normal to be sad and it's normal to feel happy one day, sad the next. And I am grateful that I was able to meet so many women that have been through similar things and
00:46:41
Speaker
It just goes to show you that like infant loss, child loss, there's no certain person that's going to go through it. It doesn't matter. And you get to meet people with like beautiful backstories and you're not alone. And I think that's the biggest part of it is like it sucks. We're all in this really shit club together, but you're not alone at the end of the day.
Impact on Marriages
00:47:04
Speaker
How did it affect your marriages? For me, it was, so I actually got married when I was pregnant with her. At the time, it really was, it really made us stronger. And even back at the hospital, the nurses told us, you know, sometimes we do see couples go through that and we kind of worry because they don't seem to be in the best place or at least not on the same page and really going through this super differently.
00:47:31
Speaker
In our case, I think it made us stronger because I allowed him to grieve the way he needed to grieve and he did the same. And somehow when one was sad, the other one was okay to support and vice versa. So really at the moment, it really made us super strong. And yeah, I guess it really, I can't say it helped us.
00:47:58
Speaker
edges did not break us and made us stronger in our love and deep connection. It's not the same for everyone and I know and I've heard stories of
00:48:09
Speaker
people going through it and living two total different lives when that happens and not really understanding each other and that that's okay but I feel also we were not 15 or 20 so we were we had lives before I had lost my dad he had lost his grandmother and he knows and he's very emotionally intelligent so he knows we can be different that's okay and I know too so I never like named him for
00:48:37
Speaker
the way he was showing stuff. And I did say a couple times, like, can you say her name a little bit more that would help me? But that was really, really the only thing that I would say was bothering me a little bit. That's good that you were able to communicate that too. Yeah. I was like open communication. I think that's like crucial at that point in your relationship. I don't really think it, I mean, not to say that it didn't affect us, but I mean,
00:49:02
Speaker
We were, I was 20 and my husband was, or I was 21 and my husband was 19 and we had only been together for three years at that point. You know, I feel like it, it was both of our first really big loss in life. And I think it just pushed us both into having to grow up a little bit faster.
00:49:24
Speaker
because you know, you're already young parents, everybody's like looking at you like, Oh, here's like frickin frack about to have a baby. Like, you know, like, it was just already kind of like one of those situations where everybody's like nervous for us because we are young. And, you know, then we go through such like a traumatizing life event. And we're both just catapulted into like,
00:49:47
Speaker
having to deal with these crazy things. And just not that it makes it any easier to go through at any age, but looking back, I was a baby, like a baby having a baby. And so was he, like, I think it definitely put a lot of stress on us and neither of us really knew how to handle it. And
00:50:08
Speaker
I mean, we definitely were a united front together. And after I lost now, I remember being like, I'm never having another baby again. But he was really just a good light in my life of being like, no, like, we're gonna have another baby and you know, they're gonna be healthy and they're gonna be okay. And
00:50:27
Speaker
you know, we're gonna be parents.
Hope's Pregnancy with Thomas
00:50:29
Speaker
And I'm kind of glad he reminded me of that because then I did have my son Thomas 14 months later. And I mean, he literally is just such a light in my life. And I'm glad that he was kind of always my driving force behind having another baby and just, I don't regret a thing. I think if anything, I would have regretted not having a baby so soon after. How was your pregnancy with Thomas after going through that loss with Noah?
00:50:58
Speaker
It was really stressful. I just remember always being like on edge with Noah's pregnancy. Like it was my first pregnancy. So I never ate lunch meat. I never, you know, eat sushi. Like I was very, very cautious of everything. And then I think with Thomas's pregnancy, it was like tenfold of like, I really was obsessing over everything. And it, it just gave me a lot of like,
00:51:28
Speaker
germ anxiety and just constantly feeling like, okay, like, if I touch this, am I going to get my baby sick? And is he gonna die? Like, it was
00:51:38
Speaker
It was awful. It was, it was probably the most mentally exhausting thing. And I just remember not letting myself feel excited because I was so excited with Noah because I just thought I'm going to have a baby and it's going to be the best thing ever. And you know, you know, these things can happen, but it doesn't really sit in your mind. Like it doesn't ever really become more than like a one day thought, but then
00:52:05
Speaker
you spend nine months obsessing over the thought and obsessing over like, it's not a guarantee that you're going to have a healthy living baby at the end of the day, like it can literally be taken from you in an instant.
Thomas' Birth and Symbolism
00:52:21
Speaker
So I mean,
00:52:23
Speaker
It was just mentally exhausting, physically exhausting. My blood pressure was high the whole time and they're like, why could that be? I'm like, I don't know you tell me. It definitely was just very like sobering almost and just finding out that I was pregnant with another boy. It kind of did something to me because initially I was like, I don't want another boy like I want Noah to be my only boy.
00:52:50
Speaker
But then I found out I was having a boy and I was like, okay, then, you know, this is just what's meant for me. And then, you know, I had him and he had a crazy delivery into this world. And my labor and delivery nurse with him, her son's name was Noah. And my due date with Thomas was May 5th and her son Noah's birthday was May 5th.
00:53:17
Speaker
So it was just like one of those things again, like I'm such a full circle moment person. And it just was like, I believe in signs. I believe in all of that. And I just knew he sent me a sign that day. We gave Thomas Noah's middle name, which is Patton. Yeah. I mean, he just has a little piece of him with him. That's awesome. Yeah.
00:53:41
Speaker
That's really crazy about the nurse.
Lou's Pregnancy with Leo
00:53:43
Speaker
It was just, just meant to be, and like one of my intake nurses too, she was my labor and delivery nurse with Noah because I delivered at the same hospital. So I was just like, it was a little triggering, but at the same time it was just like, it's all okay. Like these things are happening for a reason. Like it's all going to be okay. Yeah.
00:54:07
Speaker
How about you, Lou? Like, what made you decide you were ready to, if you did decide, if you were ready? Yeah. Um, I remember coming back from the hospital a couple of days later, we're having dinner, whatever we were, you know, people were giving us and barely eating, but I remember sitting down and looking at my husband and be like,
00:54:27
Speaker
I didn't know I was ready until that happened, until she came and everything. But now I know I was, we were 2000% ready and now I want 10 babies, please. So I remember the thought of being pregnant again right away was just, it wasn't an obsession. The thing is that my male came in and I could not get
00:54:57
Speaker
Really get rid of it. I don't want to speak that way, but I could not try up my mic. Like it lasted four and a half months. Yeah, it was crazy.
00:55:09
Speaker
Obviously it was not like, I was not that big. I was not doing anything for it, but it just kept on coming even though I was trying everything. So then my period was not coming. So that was the first goal was to get my period back. And once that happened, it was a couple of weeks before we took a trip to France because just to like backtrack it a bit, it was still very much COVID and my family was not able to come for the funeral or anything. My mom, we asked.
00:55:38
Speaker
So many people, congressmen included to help for my mom to get a freaking visa to come for her to be here for the funeral. And no, the answer was no, no, no, no, it's not. So what was the reason? It's not, I can't remember the word, but basically it was not sufficient reason for her to come. If I would have died, yes, but my, my daughter dying now.
00:56:05
Speaker
so anyway so they were not able to come so we were like okay i need to go to friends i need this hug from my mom and my sister and i need to see my family and i need to just hug them and cry for 10 minutes i needed this so bad so we went there and anyway um
00:56:23
Speaker
I got my period just a couple of weeks before that, I think maybe because I just felt some relief. So I did that and then it took us I guess five months, five to six months after that to get pregnant again with my son Leo. Yeah, it was, we really wanted him. He was meant to be with us as well.
00:56:46
Speaker
How was your pregnancy? The pregnancy itself was a little better with him than with her because I don't know. He was different, like he was laying differently. He was not as low. My symptoms were a little bit different. I had a lot more headaches, but the general feeling was a little bit better. So I felt
00:57:08
Speaker
for the most part, a little bit better physically. So that helped. But mentally, I was just such a mess. I was considered high, high risk. So I'm glad that my OB pushed for that. And so I was going to the MFM all the time. And I remember the OB that delivered Liliana. She told me she ended up delivering him too, but
00:57:28
Speaker
She told me, uh, you're going to be sick of us once you get pregnant again, sick of us because they'd be seeing all the time. And I was in my head. I was like, what are you talking about? I want to literally live at the hospital. I don't care coming every single day if need. So that was my drive throughout the pregnancy because.
00:57:47
Speaker
I just didn't want to miss any sign. I remember asking my OB, I know I'm going to get two stress tests a week after 32 weeks. I need more. I need a stress test done before the weekend. I can't live without it. So you do whatever you can, but I need that. And he's like, I completely understand. I get that to you.
00:58:06
Speaker
He even fought with the office for that because, you know, insurance doesn't cover three a week. So we need a good reason for that. And we can't schedule an NST prior. You basically have to call and say the morning of, Hey, I've been feeding something. Can I get an NST pretty much? Uh, but he fought them on this at the office and they were able to schedule me every Friday last 32 weeks. I don't know how they did it, but they did. I remember this one Friday was probably 30.
00:58:36
Speaker
five. I think it was a Friday before I went in a different office within the whole thing. And
00:58:43
Speaker
this OB was like, why did you want an NST? Like you just already got two, you're fine. And she literally asked the nurse to take me off the NST that I had just started. Yeah. So I wasn't shocked. It was like, what the heck? And she was also the one saying, Hey, he was breached. So she was, Hey, I can turn him if you want. And I was like, I wanted to not have a C-section so bad that she kind of convinced me at the time.
00:59:11
Speaker
And I was like, in my head, she was not my main OB. And I was like, I'm going to wait for my appointment next week with my OB that I trust fully. Right. And this Friday, when we went, I tell him that we were thinking about turning him because I didn't want a C-section. But he would be the one making the call pretty much. If he tells me no, then it's a no. And he told me no. He said,
00:59:40
Speaker
I would not do that. And then I was doing the NST and his heartbeat beats was over 200 was not going down. So he's like, let's go to the hospital. And at that point I'm 36 and two days. So I'm like, okay, are we going and delivering him or are we like, what's going on? I'm freaking out because I know he's still breach.
01:00:06
Speaker
And I go in, they run a bunch of tests. They put me on another monitoring. His heart kind of like, let go down a little bit, but I don't know. I feel something weird. They give me, um, Oh, yes. They do that. And the tech that is doing it, guess what? She's the technician that. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I did not recognize her.
01:00:34
Speaker
She knew you, though? She did know. She runs, she does it, and he's not moving well.
01:00:42
Speaker
She's trying to make him move because they have to make so many movements and stuff. She can measure his breathing fine, but he's moving, but he's not kicking or anything. And I'm like, I'm telling her, I'm getting very stressed out. Please tell me what's going on because that already happened. And she turns back and she, at this point, she was not really looking in my eyes. And then she turns back and she's like, I know, I remember.
01:01:10
Speaker
And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you gotta be kidding me. This isn't so crazy. Yeah. And she's like, okay, you might be delivering this baby today. Okay. So be ready. I'm gonna, I'm gonna call. I'm gonna tell them he hasn't passed this test. So the score is not good enough. Be ready. Okay. And she was trying to reassure me that he was fine. He was breathing, but the test is not good enough. So he's better. You know, he would probably be better out.
01:01:40
Speaker
And I go back to the room, then a nurse comes in and like shove a COVID test in my nose. And I'm like, okay, I guess if I'm getting a COVID test, I'm staying. So I, at this point I'm like, I know what's going on. And then the OB that was not supposed to come in right away.
01:02:00
Speaker
she comes in and she sits down she pulls the chair she sits down in front of me and she's like okay we're gonna do this today we're gonna have a c-section and he's struggling a little bit so we want him out he's gonna be better out than he is in so we're gonna do that and she basically did not give me a choice
01:02:21
Speaker
I was not asking for a choice, but I did ask her, is that an emergency section or is that, do we have a little bit of time? And she's like, it's not an emergency, but we got to do it today. Okay. And she was the same OB that she did here in Louisiana.
01:02:36
Speaker
kind of like same full circle moments here again. They prepared and my nurse, so I had like a whole team behind me, Don and Jesse, that I wanted by my side. I called them, Don was like sitting in a pool.
01:02:52
Speaker
the day off and she was like I was about to read a book by the pool but I'm getting dressed and I'm coming. So she came to be with me and switch with the nurse and be my nurse. I felt so
01:03:08
Speaker
so much relief from that because I was like okay she's with me and Jessie she couldn't she was on her boat somewhere so she was like I'm so sorry but peace facetime me so that's what we did we the wait was long from that moment it was like 12 like noon and
01:03:25
Speaker
I did not get weighed into the room until 4, I think, and he was probably born around 420 or 430, but we did do the FaceTime with her after it was nice. But the delivery itself was not super nice. He had a true knot. Oh my gosh. And obviously we didn't know. It makes me a little bit emotional because
01:03:51
Speaker
After that, so basically the OB said, okay, he's here. He's fine. I have a leg. Here he is. And then as soon as she goes and cut the cord, she's like, she goes like this. And actually Patrick, I can't remember if he saw it or I think he saw it, but she grabs the cord and she's like true knots. And I hear that. And my heart just like kind of stopped for a minute. And I could only focus on this. I was like, he almost died.
01:04:21
Speaker
He would have died. If I did not have this NST that I pushed for on this Friday, he would have died. Like legit, I'm convinced of it. Right before I get winded for the C-section, he started to make very weird movements. Very, very weird. He never had made these movements before during the pregnancy. It was exactly the time to take him out. And so he was born, he was okay. He was a little blue, but he was fine.
01:04:51
Speaker
So my husband goes with the nurse and take care of him.
01:04:55
Speaker
he was not even kind of supposed to be here. And this is so like, I don't know. I could, I just could not wrap my head around this and I could not stop thinking about it. I did not even enjoy the fact that he was here and living and breathing and crying because I was just thinking about this and then try to like move past. But basically he
Advice for Grieving Parents
01:05:19
Speaker
was creamy and his lungs were struggling.
01:05:23
Speaker
Um, so after he was delivered and I was back in my room, I go in the room and I see Patrick next to the pediatrician and I look at him and I'm like, is he okay? And he's like giving me like a thumbs up, but I know something's wrong.
01:05:38
Speaker
and i look at the position like kind of working on him and then he grabs him put him on me and he's like okay let's do skin to skin see if he gets better like what do you mean he gets better what's going on tell me and he's like oh he's struggling a little bit his uh his lungs are not getting enough oxygen it's normal but
01:05:59
Speaker
He puts him on me and it's not really better. So I probably take him for like one minute and then they just grab him and go. And at that moment I'm like, this is not happening again. This is not happening. This cannot be happening again.
01:06:17
Speaker
we get news after that he's fine he's just you know he's with oxygen he's getting better he's getting the care he needs don't worry he's well taken care of he's old enough to not really suffer from it but he needs to be he needs he needs care he needs more stuff
01:06:36
Speaker
So anyway, he spent nine days in the NICU. After that, he got this sort of shot that I never remember the name of it. Nicole, you might know the thing to get his lungs mature. The thing that basically they get after 37 weeks or something. Was it like surfactant for his lungs? Exactly. Yes. And anyway, he's he's good. We did leave the hospital without him because he had to stay in the NICU. So that
01:07:03
Speaker
felt very weird and repeating. So the day we actually left with him, I could not believe it. My mom was here this time and I just spent the entire ride crying in the backseat with him and I was just crying the entire time.
01:07:20
Speaker
we're actually going home with him. When you went for your NST, were you feeling like strange movements before that or like decreased movement that you can remember? So I ended up two times in LND before that because
01:07:37
Speaker
Obviously, I was listening to myself a lot more. Every time I would feel him, he was moving so much differently than Liana. Liana was active all day long. From 8 a.m. to 10 p.m., she was moving, moving, moving, kicking my ass. And him was like, okay, I'm going to move a little bit right now for 10, 15 minutes and then nothing for an hour or two hours.
01:08:03
Speaker
that was so stressful because every time I'd be like, okay, I know this is your pattern, but I feel like the pattern is not normal. I ended up getting weight again, because I kept on eating because I needed him to give me signs that he was okay. And that's something that it's not really taken care of when you go to the MFM and they're like, you're getting too much weight. Well, yeah, too bad, but I need to know he's okay. So
01:08:30
Speaker
I'm doing my best here, but if he's not responding, I'm going to eat something. So yeah, to answer your question, I ended up two times there because I felt weird. And every time he passed the test, he passed the NSTs, but this one time I remember feeling so weird and he was actually transverse. Like he was just horizontal.
01:08:51
Speaker
In the weird position and it wasn't super early on it was probably like 26 27 weeks so they were like even like that's weird that he has the space to do that and actually when I After I delivered him just before I left the hospital This nurse Kim who was the nurse with Jesse for Liliana it was her first day back to the hospital that day and she came and same full full circle moment, but she was like, you know what this is a
01:09:20
Speaker
very rare that this happens that they are born with a true knot and are fine and everything I truly believe that this is the reason why he was breached because and that's what I thought too like he was not able to go head down because something was wrong and every time he tried it was not going well so that's why he stayed up there because she's like this is there's no reason for him not to be able to
01:09:48
Speaker
because he and I was head down, you delivered normally. So there's no reason for him not to be able to go head down if it's not for that. So he saved his own life and I know she did too by everything she did and she made me do. I believe that.
01:10:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I just saw a video on Instagram and it was for count the kicks and that was the story. She was like, I feel like if I didn't go to the hospital at that time, he would have died. And she had a true knot, but she said something was off with his kicks and she just knew. And they told her to stay home and drink juice. And she didn't listen. She just went right to the hospital and it saved her baby.
01:10:30
Speaker
do not just trust your guests. That's the biggest advice I give every single people that want to hear me, just listen to yourself first. And if you feel like somebody's telling you something that's wrong, or you don't believe in it, find somebody else or just listen to yourself. Yeah, it's great advice.
Ongoing Grieving Process
01:10:50
Speaker
So for both of you, it's been a few years since you had lost your babies. And looking back, what would you have done differently for yourself during that first year? Or what advice would you give someone who's in that first year right now? I don't know. I don't think I would have done anything differently because I just think every choice I made and every feeling I had is what got me through. I think if anything, I would have taken more
01:11:14
Speaker
time to myself, I probably would have taken a trip and just gotten away for a little bit. I don't know. I feel like everybody kind of rushes you when you first lose the baby. And I think I would have just, again, taken more time for myself and been a little bit more like, no, I don't want you to come over today because, you know, I'm laying on my couch wishing I was dead. I don't want you at my house. Thanks for the pie. But this isn't changing how I feel.
01:11:41
Speaker
I think I would have just been maybe a little bit more assertive but I think I still feel the same of just you know every choice I made is what got me through. I feel the same. I don't think I would have done really anything differently. I try to start therapy maybe too early so maybe that I would probably not have done that. I don't think it's even like I don't even regret it because
01:12:05
Speaker
I ended up finding my therapist, she's actually in France, and we're doing like a video course for our sessions. First one that I found did not really bring us anything. We're not ready. We did it with my husband. He didn't really feel like doing it. And I don't know, it didn't bring us anything. So I would say,
01:12:23
Speaker
Do it when you're ready. Do it when you want. Don't do it just to do it. Don't do it because people are doing it. Just do it when you feel it's time for you to do it. But other than this, I wish, there's one thing I wish I would have done and continue doing, but I guess the time and the thoughts of, you know, trying to get pregnant again and everything. I was writing letters to Liliana kind of every single month.
01:12:47
Speaker
And I stopped doing it a few months after I was pregnant with Leo because then everything just continues. And you're just like, I don't know. I don't know what to say. I don't know if I want to. And you also want to enjoy this pregnancy. You don't want to get confused too much. But I do regret for her to not have done a bit more things for her, I guess, and continue like a legacy thing.
01:13:11
Speaker
But at the time I was not really, I was so sick the first few months and so tired and then work. And so it's, yeah, it's not a regret, but I would maybe have done a few things. Yeah. Is there anything that you guys wanted to say that we did not ask you?
01:13:27
Speaker
And like I said, the biggest advice for people is to listen to yourself, whether it's after loss, or no babies after, just listen to yourself. And it goes for everything, like even just your own medical thing or doesn't have to be pregnancy related, but that and for people that are surrounding.
01:13:48
Speaker
parents who have lost a baby or babies don't really try to give advice. Provide support, provide care and just be there when they need. Offer to be there, go drop a thigh, but don't force to come in and talk or anything.
01:14:07
Speaker
Try to listen better, be there and don't force any kind of advice, any like very generic thing, like how it happens for a reason or, or just don't assume that people believe in God or religion because that's.
01:14:21
Speaker
That's a few things that I've heard on my end and I just got like, you guys gotta stop with this. You gotta stop because first I'm not relating to it and it makes me even more angry at you for saying it. And I know you mean well, but just say that you're here for them and you think about their babies and say their names. And that is enough in my opinion for that first year. Yeah, I agree. That's great advice.
01:14:51
Speaker
Yeah, don't say, oh yeah, I know what you feel because I saw a post on Facebook like, yeah, my boss told me that he knows what I'm going through because he just lost his dog. Don't freaking say that, please. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Just admit that you don't know exactly how we feel. It's fine. We understand that because we'd rather you to admit that you just can't comprehend what we're going through, but you want to be here for us. That's really all that matters.
01:15:20
Speaker
Thank you and happy birthday to Noah tomorrow. Were you going to work or you took off? No, I took off. It's his seventh birthday. So my gosh, probably going to go get a cake and celebrate with the other babies and go to the cemetery and just try to enjoy the day.
01:15:40
Speaker
and revel in my feelings. Yeah, that's okay. Do your other kids like do they go with you and celebrate too? Oh my god, yeah. So I have Thomas, Kylie, and Jesse. And we we talk about Noah all the time. I have his name tattooed on me. My husband has a portrait of him tattooed on his arm. So they know him. And I mean, they're at these ages where they
01:16:05
Speaker
They ask more questions, they ask to see pictures and you know, that's the best thing that I can ever do is let them talk about him. And they tell everybody, I mean, sometimes it's a little morbid and they're like, yeah, I have a dead brother. And I'm like, Oh yeah, let's compete with that one. But, um, no, it, it warms my heart to know that like they love him. And I mean, it's not just like a, like a surface level thing. Like they genuinely love him because of the love that we
01:16:35
Speaker
share when we talk about him. And both of my sons have his middle name. And then my daughter Kylie, her middle name is Noel because it sounds like Noah. And we thought like if we were going to have a girl, like his name would have been Noel. So I mean, they all just have little pieces of him with them. And they look like him. And I just, you know, they're
01:16:58
Speaker
My constant reminder that there's life after a loss, it gets better at some point and it's not all bad. And as much as I miss him and wish he could be part of everything, I know he's with us all the time regardless.
01:17:14
Speaker
That's beautiful. There's just one thing I wanted to add before I forget because I got taken back from it. This year was three years for Liliana and this was the worst year, not the worst year in general, but the worst, I guess, anniversary approaching like from Christmas on to February was legit the worst time I've ever felt. I almost, not almost, I guess I felt very depressed and I kind of went
01:17:44
Speaker
pretty low so I just wanted to add other parents or other moms that if it does happen like later on it's also normal it's also okay sometimes it just takes you by surprise when you were not expecting and it could it could get you low and it could also be okay it just it depends on so many things doing much better right now but it was uh it surprised me how bad
01:18:11
Speaker
I went three years later. So just if people are listening and are in this stage and don't understand what's going on because it's been three years or it's been five or 10 or whatever, it can definitely happen. And it's not all bad, but sometimes it does get bad.
01:18:30
Speaker
And if it does, just be patient, I guess, and let it go. Let it be, and it would come
Connecting Living Children with Lost Siblings
01:18:36
Speaker
back. Also for family and friends of lost parents, to keep in mind that, like you said, it could be three years, five years, seven years. It doesn't mean that you forgot or moved on. And it doesn't mean that, like you said, it was your hardest year, your hardest anniversary. Sometimes they just might not understand, but you just have to realize that it's just feelings. It's just it is what it is, and it can happen like that. And it's normal. Yeah.
01:18:59
Speaker
I think you grieve differently each year. Yeah. Like every year I feel different. Like my first year was hard because I literally just lost him. I'm pregnant again. So I'm grieving that. And then, you know,
01:19:15
Speaker
you have your rainbow baby. And it's like, oh my God, this is everything I missed out on. And you almost feel guilty for like enjoying this baby because you're trying so hard to make it a point to be like, I still love my baby that passed away, but like now I have this baby. And then it's just kind of like, you'll always feel that way. Like each year that your kids get older, you're like, oh my God, I'm missing this. They should be doing this. They would be starting school this year.
01:19:44
Speaker
That's where my grief is just like at like, especially because I've had my kids so close together. No, it should be seven. Thomas is in the six. Kylie's in the five. The baby's a year and a half. It changes all so much. And like, you're like, well, this is what he looks like.
Complex Feelings of Guilt
01:19:59
Speaker
So what, what would you look like? Or would you laugh the same? Would you, would you smile the same? Like, would you be crazy like them or like soft spoken? You know, it's always that void and it's just,
01:20:13
Speaker
You know, one year it's not gonna hurt as bad and you're gonna be like, why doesn't it hurt so bad this year? But that's still normal and that's still okay. It doesn't have to kill you like how it first killed you. Like there's nothing wrong with being okay after you lose your baby. And it also comes with like a double guilt, guilt for the baby you lost, but guilt for the potentially new baby that you have.
01:20:39
Speaker
you should guilt for thinking about the other one maybe a bit more this day and not thinking about the baby you lost this day and more of the one that you have in your arm. It's just the guilt that comes on top of the grief sometimes is super, super, super heavy. And that is, I don't think we or people realize that it's not also just grief. It's so many more feelings that go around that.
01:21:06
Speaker
that just make it harder to sometimes feed again, be okay. Yeah, that's it.
Conclusion and Call to Connect
01:21:14
Speaker
Hope and Lou, thank you so much for being here today and sharing your experiences with our listeners. If you have any questions for Hope or Lou, please email us at storytellerattheblindsided.com. Thank you for listening and we will see you next episode.
01:21:30
Speaker
Thank you so much for tuning into the latest episode of the Blindsided podcast. We truly appreciate your support and time you spent with us. If you have a personal story you'd like to share on the show, don't hesitate to reach out to us. You can send us an email at Nicole with the blindsided.com or Desiree at the blindsided.com.
01:21:48
Speaker
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01:22:03
Speaker
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