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Ep. 120 – Mosh Pit Exorcisms & Sheepish Dad-vangelicals w/ Chris Mojan of Fireworks Part 1
77 Plays2 years ago
Our guest this week is guitarist Chris Mojan of Fireworks! Chris grew up in a Macedonian Orthodox community in Detroit, but family and friends eventually brought him into contact with Evangelicalism. The awkward interactions that followed left him with lasting impressions about faith, community, sincerity, and ritual, and shaped his views of the Christian community for years to come. We had a great time talking to Chris; so much so that we decided to break this episode up into two parts! You can catch part 2 of our conversation later this week. Be sure to check out the new Fireworks album “Higher Lonely Power,” and follow them on Instagram (@fireworksmi), Twitter (@WeAreFireworks), and Facebook (facebook.com/wearefireworks)!
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Transcript
Childhood Incident and Daylight Saving Time Confusion
00:00:00
Speaker
I'll never forget like four or five. There's like four or five dads. And two of them were like dads of people who I were like kind of friends with to where I kind of knew who they were a little bit. And I'll never forget. They're like, so, Chris, like. Have you have you thought about like when the time is going to be right for you to give your life over to Jesus Christ?
00:00:28
Speaker
And I was just like, I'll never, I'll never forget it. Cause I was like, I don't know. That's, I'm sorry. I don't care what you say. That's fucking weird, dude. Like I'm like 13 years old. You know what I mean? Like that's such a weird thing to like to say to a 13 year old, like without even talking to their parents or you know what I mean? Or like, just like, it's just a weird thing that would never happen in any other sort of group or setting. You know, like it let's just be real. It's not.
00:01:15
Speaker
Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Growing Up Christian. I'm Sam. I'm Casey. I'm Jeremiah. Guys, so just a few hours ago, I guess earlier today. Oh, also today. OK, we're recording this. It's the 12th. Was anybody were you guys surprised by daylight saving time? No, I knew it was coming up. I mean, I never enjoy it, but I knew it. I had no idea.
00:01:42
Speaker
Yeah, I didn't either. I woke up and I went out into the kitchen and I looked at, because your phone changes. I went out into the kitchen and I'm getting breakfast. I usually get up and I get everything ready for breakfast before April gets up. I look up at the clock and I'm like, why am I awake at 5.30 on a Saturday?
00:02:03
Speaker
Yeah, mine was like, uh, well, so I have, um, like a weather app with a, um, with the time attached to it. And that hangs out big at the top of my phone. And that had an updated jet because for some reason it wasn't auto updating. So I wake up and I look at that time. And that time is the time that I suspect it to be.
00:02:24
Speaker
And then I go out to let my dogs out and that time matches all the clocks in my house. So I'm like, but then my alarm goes off, which was set for an hour later. And I'm like, what the fuck is going on? And it didn't cross my mind that it could have been daily saving. I had no concept of that event coming up in my life at all.
Embarrassing Moments and Odd Phrasing
00:02:45
Speaker
God, I lost an hour of sleep because I'm pretty upset about how things played out this morning. Maybe that was a precursor to an awkward thing that happened to me this evening. I went to the grocery store, not a strange thing to do.
00:03:07
Speaker
was probably there for about 15 minutes, just picking up a few things, got home, got out of my car and realized that my fly was fully unzipped. And like, God damn it, I walked around a grocery store for 15 minutes with that just like, pulled open, essentially, like, and then you just think I was pushing a cart, but then you just start thinking like, some people, you know, maybe maybe it's like a friendly passerby, you make eye contact with people, they look at you, and I'm like,
00:03:37
Speaker
You start like playing it back or like are any of the looks that I received? Just because people were like, okay, this guy has no fucking clue that he looks like a total bird watching. I think they might have noticed and I they're bone-hocking yet. I'm just like smiling and nodding and they're just like this guy doesn't have he has another clue. He doesn't know what's happening. That is a very particular anxiety. Yeah, I know. So but you know, it's worse than that, though.
00:04:05
Speaker
What's worse than what's worse than like knowing that like you had your fly down for, you know, a portion of the day. What's worse is like if you go to the bathroom and you're kind of in a hurry and then once you're out, realize that like you got like a polka dot crotch. OK, it's way worse because it's like everybody thinks you're disgusting and they're right. Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
00:04:36
Speaker
I'm not, I don't think I'm just like pulling it in and zipping up that fast where I end up having that problem. That's why you should wear dark pants anyway, Casey. What are you doing wearing fucking khakis to work? Come on. Well, sometimes I have to wear khaki. Black pants, dude. You void that problem completely.
00:04:54
Speaker
So I've got a pair of black pants that miss the second problem, but they're bad about the first problem. They're Patagonia, like hiking technical pants. And for some reason, I've never owned a pair of pants that have two zippers, like two poles on the zipper. It's one zipper, but they have two poles.
00:05:11
Speaker
So, one's at the bottom, one's at the top, which means people think your fly is down all day long because they can see the zipper pull hanging out the bottom. It's a stupid feature. My boss pulled me aside to tell me my fly was down at a work function and I'd explain, no, it's not. And then, you know how many people have like
00:05:32
Speaker
tried to break it to me gently that my fly is down like I can't wear them in public anymore. I can like only wear them hiking. Is that so you can zip them up in like, in like, let it dangle out the bottom so you can I think so in hiking conditions or something. I don't know. I don't know. This has never been a problem. I've had to solve with any other pair of pants. I didn't notice this about the pants before I bought them like it just wasn't that important.
00:05:55
Speaker
How do they handle the dribbles? It prevents the catch. It's not going to get caught on the zipper, right? Is that what it's trying to do? I guess, but don't you just pull your pants down far enough that that's not an issue? Is that a thing that people have problems with a lot? If you don't want to unbutton them, I guess. This is just Patagonia. They're like, oh, it's got two zippers, so we can justify charging 150 bucks for them. I'm sure there's a great reason, but they don't do it on the rest of their pants either. I just don't know why. It doesn't make sense.
00:06:25
Speaker
Well, maybe the next pair will have like a zipper in the back so you can take a shit without taking your pants off too. I would be cool. Maybe it's a speed thing, you know? Maybe if you're quick drawing, you got to skin that smoke wagon. You can draw. Casey has such a way with phrases. I mean, maybe it's ventilation. Skin that smoke wagon.
00:06:51
Speaker
Do you even know what you said or did it just pop into your head and you were saying this like later? It really deteriorates from like the line, but I've been really thinking about how I'm going to work skin the smoke wagon into an intercom for like a week. You worked it in like someone throwing a brick through a window.
00:07:17
Speaker
You worked it in like that scene from Remember the Titans. The only thing I could think of is that yes, it's designed so you can use it out the bottom if you've got like maybe, you know, a backpack on or something like with hip straps or whatever. That's all I can figure because it's supposed to be advanced.
00:07:35
Speaker
But then I've got another set of Patagonia, also like technical outdoor pants, that have no fly. Like they're just elastic waist and I didn't know that before I bought them because they're kind of like sewn to look like they would have a fly, but it's a drawstring. You're just an unusual pants enthusiast. Yeah. That's it.
00:07:55
Speaker
That's the only sell for you. You don't buy, I mean, you're not just going to buy a regular pair of five pocket jeans. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of, all the zoomers have a room for their like Jordans and Jeremiah just has like a closet full of unusual fly pants. Yeah. Everybody's got a thing. I don't know. And they're just hung up on bike seats.
00:08:27
Speaker
Oh, boy. OK. I have a topic that I've been wanting to talk about. And is it smoke wagons or whatever? No, it's steaming the smoke wagon. What is it? Can you explain the smoke? What what is it? What is your tombstone? No, just explain it. Don't ask me why I don't know it. Just explain it. God.
00:08:53
Speaker
Uh, no, it's, uh, that's what it is. Uh, Kurt Russell.
Witchcraft in Modern Discourse
00:08:58
Speaker
He's, he's wide open the movie and there's a guy that's like threatening to draw down on him, you know, and he gets up in his face and he's like, skin it boy. You better skin that smoke wagon to see what happens. Is, so is the smoke wagon a gun in this situation? Yeah, follow the bats and ball.
00:09:18
Speaker
Yeah. Jeremiah, who is on top of being a weird zipper and pants enthusiast, is also a gun enthusiast. And he was, he seemed as genuinely surprised as I was by this term. I, given the context of the conversation he came up with, at no point did I think that was a gun. I thought smoke bragging was a penis metaphor of some kind.
00:09:41
Speaker
I can talk slower for you too, if that's what you mean. I don't think speed is the problem. I think it's like 90% of the words you use and when you decide to use them. Do what I can. Anywho, have you guys noticed that, I don't know when it started here. If it's like the last couple months or what, but like, have you all of a sudden seen like,
00:10:10
Speaker
these Christian leaders talking about witches all the time? Yes. It seems like it's popping up more.
00:10:18
Speaker
Why? Why are they talking about witches? Because one of them went viral. And so do you know the story of the one that went viral or do I need to start googling this? I don't know the story of the one that went viral. It's like, you know, with like all the Christian tiktokers doing that youth pastor voice and with like the ring light lighting up their eyes, all that shit. It's like one person did that and then everyone else did.
00:10:46
Speaker
It is a very distinctive formula. So I think it's the same with all Christian social media content that's made for the purpose of Going Fire. I can't imagine these people take it seriously.
00:11:03
Speaker
so i don't know if this is where this started i don't think it is but i was looking up these articles to try to see if i could figure it out and here's one from last week that doesn't go in the direction you think it's going to but it's interesting uh the title is do these connecticut gop state reps believe in witches they won't say and uh yes so apparently
00:11:23
Speaker
There's a bill up to exonerate people convicted of witchcraft like in the 16 and 1700s right back when Connecticut was doing a whole lot with which convictions and if they're still in jail. They're probably witches right so we need somebody would ask him if they believed in insider trading instead or stock buybacks.
00:11:42
Speaker
So, so Beverly Kahn, the former provost of Fairfield University said it's Women's History Month. Let's celebrate this month by doing the right thing. There's been enough unjust accusation, demonization and killing of innocent people, not just 350 years ago, but today. And then a pair of Republican legislators.
00:11:59
Speaker
Doug Dubitsky and Craig Fishbein said typically when someone wants to have a convict exonerated, whether alive or after they're dead, they produce evidence that they were innocent. Do you have any evidence that these people were innocent? Okay. Women convicted of witchcraft hundreds of years ago.
00:12:17
Speaker
So, they were discussing the specific case of Goody Knapp, which is a real old name. A simple-minded, the quotes are in the article, so, simple-minded single woman who was convicted of witchcraft on the basis of a witch's mark. A birth mark. A witch's mark is a location on the body that Puritans thought were areas of the body that imps suckled blood. So Puritans thought that you had a compact with the devil. So if you had a skin tag mole or wart, you could be executed for a witch.
00:12:43
Speaker
They're familiar. I think they call them familiars. This is this is a couple hundred years after we like we're doing astronomy in the world. I just want to point that out and you could have a skin tag and be executed for witchcraft. And it's funny. You got guys in a boat with no satellite technology that can like set off from Spain and land in the Philippines or something like that. And we're talking about witches. Oh, actually, this article may have the source of it.
00:13:13
Speaker
So this is the same week that Charlie Kirk from Turning Point USA claimed a group of witches approached him in Arizona to cast a spell on him in his show. And then so he accused a grand jury forewoman of being a witch. And then it also says that Alex Jones also says that he thinks Katy Perry and Kesha are Illuminati witches. I don't think that counts, but the Charlie Kirk thing is probably more relevant.
00:13:39
Speaker
Oh man, apparently 40% of people in the US have some belief in witchcraft and 16% of people believe in wishes. That is disturbingly high. So what's interesting about him being like, do you have evidence to suggest that they were innocent is like, do we have to get down to defining what it means to practice witchcraft? Is it like,
00:14:04
Speaker
It has to be true. Like you could practice it, but it's if it's not true, right? If you don't have a if you don't have a real covenant with the devil, it's just like, you know, sparkling dungeons and dragons or whatever. Yeah, I. OK, the which thing. So I feel like that's that's having a resurgence in general, not just within Christianity, but I feel like a lot more people are like.
00:14:29
Speaker
shifting in that direction. People are shifting in that direction. Wiccan, is it? And I think for some people- I don't even think it's Wiccan anymore. Wiccan seems kind of outdated now too. Maybe. But it does feel like there's a shift towards that.
00:14:46
Speaker
I don't really know what gets lumped into it either. Does tarot count? Your belief in how crystals and the energy of crystals influences you and the world around you? Is that witchcraft? I don't really know where you would draw the line and even where self-proclaimed witch would draw the line.
00:15:09
Speaker
Well, I heard Kirk called the person he thinks is a witch who put the, you know, spell on him. He called her a Harry Potter girl. I'm surprised that doesn't actually put them on the same team though, right? Yeah. Oh, that's great. Oh, the enemy. There's a culture that was created, especially with millennials. Reminder that Charlie Kirk is a zoomer and people listen to him. I think he's a zoomer. He may actually be a millennial.
00:15:34
Speaker
But there's this culture that's created where they get super obsessed with Harry Potter and they talk in a certain way and they giggle a certain way. And I was like, that girl, she's a witch. And then my suspicions were totally and completely correct. And we found her, I'm skimming through what he says, we found her Pinterest page and she's really into witchcraft. She's speaking to alchemy crystals and how to be a witch. Now, so do certain witches or people who practice that.
00:16:00
Speaker
Well, again, I think it goes back to what you're saying. What do you mean by witchcraft? People who actually believe in occult magic, if they can use it, or people who like witchy stuff, like, you know, in their home decor and their crystals and whatever, like burning incense and a whole bunch of other things, it's a little more cultural. The same as like someone having a thousand, like, praying Marys around their house, like, as they're a Catholic, that's not necessarily representative.
00:16:24
Speaker
Well, I mean, there's a lot of similarities, but yeah. I don't care if you pray the rosary or you listen to behemoth, you know, while you boil a possum or something like that, like it's all witchcraft to me. I found this article that is called, What is a Christian Witch and why is this belief dangerous? Oh my God.
00:16:50
Speaker
I read through it. It's pretty compelling stuff. The author is stop tagging make believe things is dangerous.
00:17:00
Speaker
That seems like a universal thing too. Christianity.com published this and the author is Hope Bollinger. And I just like look to try to find some stuff about Hope Bollinger to see who she is. And apparently she says she wrote six books last year. So we shouldn't take her seriously. I get it.
00:17:23
Speaker
Well, and I also like there, if you click on her name, I know, I know. And if you click on her name, like on this website, like she writes an article for this website, like every three days. Like she has like 11 pages of articles on this website and they're all, okay, I'll read you some titles here because they're all, uh, you know, really important deep dives.
00:17:50
Speaker
Well, okay. First of all, on our website, more than 1400 of her works have been featured in various publications ranging from writer's digest to keys for the kids to hooked to crosswalk.com. 1400 of her works.
00:18:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's too many. I'm gonna need a real definition on what constitutes as a works. Well, here, I'll just read you. Okay. That kind of output. Here's the articles that she wrote for this site in February. This kid was homeschooled. What is the unholy trinity in the Bible?
00:18:24
Speaker
Who are the four living creatures in Revelation? What are the seven golden lampstands in Revelation? What is the sharpsicle harvest in Revelation? What is Babylon, the great in the Bible? Who is Enos in the Bible? What does Perusia have to do with Jesus' second coming? That's all just in February.
00:18:44
Speaker
I don't know what any of that is. I mean, with questions like that, you can literally just stream of consciousness, say whatever you want, and then call that a work. It's just none of it's based in reality, and I'm sure she's not pulling from various sources and academic scholars or biblical scholars.
00:19:05
Speaker
Uh, I think it's also worth noting that in her, uh, informal bio, uh, Oh, Mike, I'm going to read the first two sections of this because it's tough. Uh, and you guys need to go through this with me. Uh, my name is hope and I bet you probably can't come up with a hope joke. I haven't heard before. I'm Leslie Nopin, Ben Wyatt combined the best combo driven and nerdy. You'll find me accidentally editing entire books in a day or dressing up like little red riding hood in public for no reason.
00:19:35
Speaker
God. This person sounds unbearable. And how old do you think this person is? It doesn't say anywhere on her. Yeah, I can't find anything on her website. She contributed to a book in 2013, poetic power essay anthology in 2013. So I don't know. It's really hard to tell. She's probably not 15. Well, she so she.
00:20:04
Speaker
She really sets out to prove what Christian witches, quote unquote Christian witches believe and then why it's all stupid and bad. And I'll agree with her on that. If you call yourself a Christian witch, I will I will concede to her point that that's stupid and bad. And that's fair. I'll make room for that.
00:20:29
Speaker
Uh, she's, you know how like, okay. So when you got a, if you got a sermon about rock music being bad, like they would always have like a PowerPoint presentation and they would pull like two examples from who knows where and use those to like back up their whole thing. She does like the exact, it just follows the same model that they do over and over again. Tried and true.
00:20:55
Speaker
She's like talking about this Christian witch that she found on Facebook. She's like, Valerie goes on to say Christian witches can pick up Bibles and tarot cards, pray and cast spells. And many Christian witches go as far as to say that Jesus cast quote spells and quote hexes in his miracles.
00:21:12
Speaker
In essence, Christian witches believe they can connect to God through their witchcraft. Yeah, people are saying, sure. Yeah, so she goes to Great Lakes to quote a bunch of- And then she's like, I have some content.
00:21:33
Speaker
They just take like they continually take like the most unserious people seriously for the sake of like, you know, like sounding the alarm and making a whole sermon out of it. Yeah. I mean, well, there was that person that we were trying that I had reached out to. She had kind of been blowing up in that circle. I think she did an interview with maybe the Daily Wire, some like Daily Wire B team member interviewed her.
00:22:02
Speaker
I forget, I don't even remember her name, but it was one of those like, everything's demonic, very, all the demons need to be cast on everything that makes me uncomfortable. And that yeah, but I mean, that's working. That's working for people if you want.
00:22:19
Speaker
If you want to take that lane and then you'll get success. And then if you're in the right lane of, you know, Christian, you can go, you can mistake that success for God's blessing and not other people's stupidity. And it just, it's all circulatory reasoning at that point. And it's just a normal, like, uh, you have to have something to be mad about for the culture work to work. And you don't have anything going on other than the culture war. Like when you have no goals.
00:22:47
Speaker
Like no goals that are like practical on a day to day basis that are worth anything. You just need stuff to be mad about because like that's your goal is just recruitment. Yeah. Which is why Ken Ham is like 75 and still trying to debate people on the merits of Genesis. You're like, dude, get over it. Yeah. Die Ken Ham. Whoa. All right. That's maybe just just walking back just a little bit. No, he can die. He's had a good run. Get out of here.
00:23:14
Speaker
Is he actually old or does he just look extremely old? Because I feel like he's looked old since like the early 90s. Imagine how many dribbly khakis that guy's owned. So there's a section I'll skip over like her whole biblical deep dive on, you know, all the reasons that the Bible is against witchcraft, whatever that means, and whatever they make it out to me, like,
00:23:41
Speaker
Like, uh, you know, Saul, God got angry at Saul for talking to like, uh, soothsayer or whatever. And so that's, you know, how you know that God hates tarot cards and Ouija boards. You extrapolate that across everything that you also don't like. So that's great. But he found a loophole for the, like the 6,000 wives and concubines that not nearly as bad as that didn't come up.
00:24:08
Speaker
So, okay, the last section in here is, why would someone want to be a Christian witch? And I thought this was the most fun. Since the church is fought witchcraft throughout history, we can see some reasons why this belief system would appeal, especially for those who want to take fate into their own hands and become like God. Reason number one, not taking up your cross.
00:24:31
Speaker
Christian Witchcraft offers a compromise. It implies that yes, you can have a relationship with Jesus or their counterfeit version of Jesus, but you can still practice the mystic arts. It suggests you don't have to put to death the ways of Satan, but rather serve two masters. Obviously, this won't work. But for someone who doesn't want to give up everything for Christ, this meet-you-halfway method sounds appealing.
00:24:56
Speaker
I don't feel like we're talking about anything related to the original thing. I think they just wanted an opening to talk about whatever they wanted to talk about. Yeah, pretty much. That's kind of a slam dunk argument, if you ask me. It's really having one foot in the world and trying to have one foot out of the world.
00:25:18
Speaker
I remember that. You've been warned about that. Yeah. You've been warned about that. Oh yeah. Because if you have one foot, it's like they would use the fence analogy or the spoken out. It's like, oh, you have one foot. You're trying to get one foot in the world and you can try to keep one foot in the faith, but then you fall and you split your nuts open on the chain link fence that divides the two.
00:25:40
Speaker
Yeah, that's Yeah, that sounds that sounds about right. Yeah. Well, I feel like the idea that people are turning to witchcraft to achieve some sort of like cosmic control over life is kind of mean, I'm sure some 14 year old girls on Tumblr are like, again, I'm sure she found somebody online who said they were doing what a cast a spell on that mean girl that
00:26:06
Speaker
dipped their ponytail in a inkwell. People still do that, right? You're a school counselor, Sam. Why are you asking us? I haven't spoken to a child in years. These people do not.
00:26:21
Speaker
They don't understand that like there's appeal in like creepy weird things and they should understand that because that's why they love talking about this stuff like everybody loved hearing stories about like demon possession and exorcisms and you know the missionary that went to a tribe and saw somebody do you know something weird or unnatural, you know or whatever
00:26:46
Speaker
Like they love that crap for the same reason that people like wearing black and listening to death metal or watching horror movies. Like it's exciting that there might be something out there that you don't fully understand that could be a little dangerous.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah, and they're fixation. It's like, it's always that yin yang, right? Yin and yang. It's like, you have, they have their platform and they get to like revel in all the things about this that are awful, simply because it exists. And it's just like, you kind of need that. Like yet you've, you love being able to invest your life into being the antithesis of that. And without it, what would you do? I mean, you just,
00:27:30
Speaker
You have to find another thing to blog about, but it certainly wouldn't have the excitement of Christians taking up witchcraft because they want to fo be in, but also practice the dark arts to be just like God.
Media Sensationalism and Podcast Intentions
00:27:43
Speaker
That's the other funny thing is it's like the the reasons they ascribe to it for other people. It's like they want to be like God. It's like, what do you fucking worry about if if your God is like really this exciting and awesome and powerful? Like guess what? They can't be.
00:28:00
Speaker
I'm pretty sure everything about their belief set is that no one could be like God. It's comical that they would be threatened by somebody even trying. More accidentally falling into that lane.
00:28:20
Speaker
Like how bad and dangerous and evil that was but then like has to say that like the Well, like the medium was shocked when samuel appeared and stuff like well, you know
00:28:31
Speaker
Is it real or is it not? Like you can't have it both, but you can't call them stupid for believing in it. And then also like, tell us how dangerous it is and stuff like that. She must think it's real again. Oh, I think she, I think she does. Like it's fun to think it's real. It's, it's fun for everybody to think stuff is real.
00:28:51
Speaker
And like, the irony of like, if your goal is to stop the spread of these kind of ideologies, like the irony of you making like 300 blog posts about it and stuff like that. I mean, how many musicians and artists and stuff have made like their entire career has been on making conservatives angry and upset, like worried, like the Marilyn Manson approach.
00:29:17
Speaker
And they just continue to do it because they want something out of this too. It's not like, well, we need to protect kids from this. So we need to just like keep it out of the spotlight. It's like, let's put it into the spotlight because then I get to be in the spotlight a little bit too.
00:29:32
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's exactly it. You can't, there's always the, no, if it wasn't shocking to do like what Marilyn Manson did or any version of that. That's why people keep doing it. It's like they keep looking for things to shock.
00:29:48
Speaker
quote unquote normal society doesn't even have to be religious but it's like if you do something outside the realm of normal people are like oh my god did you see that and people are talking about it and people have been everyone's known forever that there's no such thing as bad press and then something happens that's bad and everyone amplifies it and acts like people need to veer away from it and it's like you I just the journalistic the lack of journalistic integrity for a lot of people in the way that they're like
00:30:19
Speaker
One little thing happens and the entire media cycle blows up over it and they focus on it for days and days and days is something that you need to avoid. Everyone's just trying to make money. That's it. They just try to make money off of it and they find their lanes and they
00:30:38
Speaker
don't really care that they're propagating it. They probably don't even really believe that they're propagating it. They might actually be narcissistic enough to think that their voice is like, that important. You know, I heard all these other people said this, but like, they didn't get my angle on it. And I'm obviously a genius. So let me Well, I mean, that's the whole problem. Like, that's the main problem with all social media, isn't it? Like, I think we talked about this recently, didn't we? Like everyone needing that to have a take.
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah. And is that what we're doing? Are we having a take? I don't know. I don't care if we spread witchcraft or you shouldn't listen to us. That's the difference is I don't believe anyone should listen to us. Like you can hear it. You can vet it. You can fact check it. If it makes you think about something cool, but just don't take our fucking word for anything. We're not.
00:31:28
Speaker
We're not here because we're smart. We're not doing this. And now we're absolved in the responsibility of for anything that you think the glue could be for each of you. Yeah, look at Sam taking the Joe Rogan approach. Yeah, we told you this was your own race here. Yeah. Oh, it's 100%. Well, no, we did have two for Christ on, so. He's like, he's always like, I'm just an idiot. Don't listen to me anyway. So for the 4 million of you listening to this episode, tell us more about how this is all a plot to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. When we have 4 million listeners, I'll take a different approach.
00:31:57
Speaker
Okay, I'll skip over reason number two, which is because they want to be like God because it's stupid and it barely makes a second point. Reason number three, rebelling. Oh, there's something very appealing to the flesh about the idea of rebellion. We see it praised in media all the time. Welcome to the rebellion. The good guys in Star Wars. You guessed it. The rebels. Media and witchcraft. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on. Hold on. What angle? What angle is she taking there?
00:32:27
Speaker
That's what I'm wondering too, because this is also like a person that probably jerked up to 1776. Yeah, the good guys are the rebels fighting back against the big evil fascist empire. Sure, guys. I wonder how she feels about Protestantism.
00:32:49
Speaker
I was not ready for where this was going. Please keep going. It says medium witchcraft praise rebellion because humans tend to shake their fists at God and his order for all living things, you know, like the rebellion in the gaze. Think of the Tower of Babel. Why did they build it?
00:33:08
Speaker
because they wanted to rebel against God. They wanted to tell him exactly what they thought of the flood he'd just caused on the earth. Just caused? What? How much time elapsed?
00:33:24
Speaker
Sam, you have the degree. You should cover this. That doesn't even make sense. My degree hasn't provided me with any bit of useful information since I graduated. I'm asking you for useful information. I'm asking you to explain the timeline difference between the towers.
00:33:41
Speaker
My degree doesn't help with that either, but my own personal interest apparently does. It's just not there. There's nothing special to say about it. It's just like, how does she infer that that's why they built a tower to tell God how they felt about the flood? It's just like an inference that you have to try and make.
00:34:04
Speaker
I'm on answersandgenesis.org in kids answers section. And it says the Tower of Babel incident occurred about 4200 years ago, about 100 years after the flood but before Abraham was born. What a dumb take. After the flood, there was Shem, Ham, Japheth, Noah,
00:34:28
Speaker
And no one else, right? I remember the story correctly. There's nobody else. And in 100 years, there were so many people that they're building a tower to heaven. Yes. Do I have the timeline right? They were just banging like rats.
00:34:47
Speaker
It was just one big incest orgy. Back then, right after the floods, you don't understand. Kids grew up in six, seven months, okay? You're ready to, ready to bear fruit within a year. Well, and people lived till they were 300 years old, so like they could have more kids, you know? And they became fertile. Keep things going. That's not the, how's this never clicked? Call it the fertile crescent for nothing.
00:35:11
Speaker
I don't want to know. I don't want to ask any questions about it. I want to keep going. Israelahistoryof.com says the tower was started 130 years after the flood. That timeline does not work. I don't know. I've never even thought about that before. Me neither. I don't know why this never clicked.
00:35:34
Speaker
Because Genesis really speedruns a lot of like a long period of time Genesis is flying through, right? Like the Bible really slows down in the middle couple thousand years. The first couple thousand years like is like from verse to verse. It's like 800 years have passed.
00:35:50
Speaker
Yeah, a lot happens in a short in a short amount of writing. So it was like, yeah, it was basically like the Tower of Babel was basically like the same crowd size as like a high school volleyball game. And God's like. Latin, Chinese, but they all just had to split out from there with, I'm guessing, their one.
00:36:13
Speaker
or two potential mates that they would then populate, you know, China and South America and stuff like that. Depends, though, because, you know, maybe South America wasn't until the Jews left, you know, Israel. But what was the Mormon storyline? They left Israel and went across the ocean to the Americas. And I don't I don't have the exact timeline. I don't want to. You don't want to you don't want to get
00:36:43
Speaker
their religion wrong you know for other people you wouldn't want misrepresent that that's unfair how many more of these do we have casey because uh no it's that's pretty much it says the idea of becoming a christian which coats itself in deception it makes it seem like you're following god but instead you're rebelling against him
00:37:05
Speaker
Satan operates in half truths, so it makes sense that he would twist Christianity enough beyond the point of recognition. The only person twisting anything in this article is the person writing it.
00:37:18
Speaker
Yeah, because what she just, what she just insisted is a problem and exists is a fairy tale that has never happened. I mean, I don't know who growing up Christian is like, I knew someone who dabbled in witchcraft and thought that that was compatible with Christianity. If anyone dabbled with witchcraft, it was the rebellious kid that we knew was on their way out that we were all worried about.
00:37:43
Speaker
I'm pretty sure I could sit down right now and off the cuff, write a better Christian, like, rebuke of witchcraft, I guess you'd call it like GPT this. Yeah. Like you could you like there's an actual argument that could be made. It has nothing to do with any of the stuff that she wrote. She just got mad about something that started writing like, I don't think there's people doing actual witchcraft that you'd make an argument about. But if you want to argue for why Christians shouldn't be like, quote unquote, dabbling in the occult,
00:38:10
Speaker
I don't feel like that's a super hard argument to make. Like it's not what she did, though. Well, do you want to hear how she recommends combating this? She's pretty clear. Yeah, she seems like she's got it figured out. Sure. The shortest the shortest paragraph in the article. How do we combat this? First, we exercise discernment. If any witchcraft practices have entered our churches walls, we remove those elements. Examples. Secondly, salt lamps.
00:38:40
Speaker
Can you remember that or do you need to write it down? I can still call it a theme. Don't jump the head. Secondly, we go back to the Bible. We go back to the truth. We make sure to instill truth in younger generations. And thirdly, we pray. I like the back to the Bible. It's like, you know what we need to do?
00:39:03
Speaker
We need to go back to the Bible. I know we like what this assumption that people have just like opted out of using that to base their religion on their Christian religion on like we if we go let's go back to the Bible everyone and now because you weren't you had gotten away from it unlike me. But if we go back to it that'll that'll solve all of our problems. It's like the assumption that
00:39:32
Speaker
that so many people just like forgot. They just forgot what the Bible, what they've been taught the Bible says about these things. This is very confusing. As though Christians are as a whole. Sure, church. You know what? We could gather the pitchforks. We could light our torches. We could assemble the mob and hunt these witches down and we could burn them again. But you know what I think? Let's just go back to the Bible. Go back to the Bible.
00:40:01
Speaker
Although Satan has a certain amount of power, God has infinitely more. I've seen stories online. So what are you worried about? That's what I want to know. Like, that's what they, they always get rid of that. It's like, but in the end, God will win. So why the fuck are you still wasting your time talking about this? Well, yeah. And here's the footnotes. I've seen stories online of people who converted from witchcraft to Christianity.
00:40:26
Speaker
God still moves and can reach anyone through his power. Examples of such creators can be found here and here. She provides two links. God still moves and can use anything to do anything, but he opts not to most of the time. And we can just anecdotally cite the times that it works out in our best interest. Otherwise, it wasn't God's fault. And the other times, it wasn't that God didn't pull through. It's just that he has a plan that we don't know about yet.
00:40:52
Speaker
God thought there was too many children and some of them should have Spanish florinda. The planet was getting overpopulated, so he implanted the idea of gain of function research in scientists years ago. So that way, one day in Wuhan, let's not get into that one. I cannot serve both God and Fauci.
00:41:24
Speaker
I feel like it would not be that hard to do a good version of this. Could you do six good versions of it in a week? Could you do 400? There's also not a lot of care paid to spelling and punctuation in these many, many articles that she writes.
00:41:48
Speaker
I like Hope. I would love to talk to Hope. She reminds me of another person from Ohio with a name that starts with H. And I think I would get along with her equally as well.
Band Fireworks' Journey and Music Return
00:42:01
Speaker
Well, maybe we should try to get her on and have a reasonable conversation so that way we can get the accused of platforming white supremacists again. That'd be sweet. Moving on.
00:42:17
Speaker
our guest this week, Chris Mojin from a wonderful band called fireworks. Fireworks took like an indefinite hiatus in 2015. They had previous 2009, 2011 and 2014. They had put out full length albums and then just went on an indefinite hiatus. And then out of nowhere in 2023, they didn't advertise it. They didn't know real promotion just one day.
00:42:44
Speaker
fireworks drops a new album. Um, and I, as soon as I saw that a friend sent it to me with a, Oh, holy shit. I can't believe this. They have a new album and it's a bit of a style change too. Prior to this new album, they were kind of in like the pop punk lane. Um, maybe like that post emo pop punk. I don't really know how I would love to describe them. But we get into it a little bit on the podcast and
00:43:11
Speaker
with their new album. It took me by surprise and I fucking fell in love with it. I thought it was a fantastic album and it's called A Higher Lonely Power. There's just a lot of themes in it that pull from
00:43:26
Speaker
concepts of Christianity. There's a song called Mega Church. There's some references to Jesus here and there. And as soon as I heard it, I was like, this is someone we have to talk to. So here it is. We talked to him, High Lonely Power, awesome album by Fireworks. Definitely go check that out on Spotify or wherever you listen to your music. And enjoy our conversation with Chris. And Casey probably needs to say something else before we jump over to that.
00:43:54
Speaker
Yeah, you know all the things if you like the podcast leave us a review wherever you listen to it Preferably a good review and share it with friends We appreciate everybody who's done that we got quite a few reviews now It's it's cool to see some feedback and stuff. I know that helps with Rotation and suggestion and stuff like that on iTunes and whatnot
00:44:18
Speaker
Um, if you're not a part of the discord, like seriously, like, what are you waiting for? It's a very fun plan. I feel like it's just like gotten better and better over time. And, uh, there's a lot of cool people in there. You should join. You'll have a good time. So, uh, do those things and enjoy our conversation with Chris. Hey everybody. We're back with our guest, Chris from fireworks. Chris, what's up, man?
00:44:48
Speaker
Not much. How are you guys doing? Doing good. Yeah, quite well. I know Casey literally just walked in the door, so I'm sure he's totally in the right frame of mind for this. But you have plenty of time to think, right? Yeah. Yeah, my butt cheek is asleep on the right side.
00:45:06
Speaker
Yeah, you should go like that. I just watched that Seinfeld episode where George has that wallet that's like four inches thick. And I feel like I'm venturing into that territory. But man, Chris, I'm I'm really excited to kind of get into it. So.
00:45:21
Speaker
fireworks. We're going to jump into your whole life story. But I think just to kick off for the listeners what was like, oh, holy shit. I want to I want to get someone from fireworks on this. You guys have not been a band for quite a little while now. And I learned about the only I had learned about you guys back when I would like before Spotify and I would throw in like Pandora all the time. Right. It would be like like Wonder Years Pandora and then you guys would would come up
00:45:51
Speaker
And so that's how I learned of you. And then, and then you guys kind of weren't a band anymore after that. So I didn't have, and then my friend had sent me after your new album came out, he just messaged it to me and was like, Hey, holy shit. Fireworks has a new album. And it seemed like it came out of nowhere. So I just thought I was like, in the, in the,
00:46:11
Speaker
the name of your new album was just kind of stuck out when it was like a higher lonely power and then there was you had a song called mega church and i was like okay i think there might be some um intertwining threads here and we might have some things to talk about
00:46:28
Speaker
yeah so i guess uh i mean that's interesting i actually really like that story because i feel like what it comes down to is like this album was probably your first real dive into our band which is cool it was
00:46:42
Speaker
yeah so that's really cool and yeah we we uh we just didn't we just decided not to like do it full time anymore and instead of just kind of half ass in it we just decided like no if we're not gonna do it let's just not do it for a while um music's interesting because i feel like if you're an actor or director or something any really other creative medium you can just not do stuff for like five years and yeah sure some people might be like oh i wonder what's going on with them but like it wouldn't be like
00:47:10
Speaker
tour new album what are you doing are you still a band like so we were like we better just like let's just actually call the hiatus and just come back when we're ready and then yeah we didn't really
00:47:24
Speaker
I don't know, we're all in our 30s and have other livelihoods and stuff. So like, you know, we kind of just truly saw this as a just a creative outlet, like there was no real reason for us to like, do the whole like hype up thing and like, you know, free release songs and
00:47:42
Speaker
You know, whatever. We just figured like we made this thing that we really loved and we spent time on and we mainly, I don't want to say mainly did it for us, but selfishly, I guess. Yeah, we, that's kind of got our kicks doing it. So we didn't really see a really a big need to like hype it up. Just, you know, here it is. Go listen to it. I mean, that's kind of, should be the point anyway. So.
00:48:05
Speaker
Yeah. Well, I love it. I think that's, I think the, this sounds like a backhanded compliment and I don't mean it to me, but it's like that, that we're just going to get back. I know we're, but that we're going to get back together and do this just for us. I think like if because beforehand you guys were kind of like a, well, it changed a little bit, but it was, you got your roots were in like pop punk for the most part.
00:48:29
Speaker
And that's kind of what I was expecting along those lines. And then the first track really comes out swinging. I was like, is this even the same? I like double checked that it was the same thing. And I love that because a lot of people feel like they have to do what they've always done, especially if they're going to come back and maybe they think people have expectations. But people change. People want to release different types of music over time. And I loved it. As soon as I heard it, that's kind of what put me back to your back catalog and really
00:48:58
Speaker
let me do the deep dive in. Well, thank you. Yeah, we want to do any I think if you're I think making art of any kind, I think if you're thinking of anything other than kind of yourself and what naturally comes out, it's not really.
00:49:12
Speaker
What's the point? Yeah, some people might not like it, but it's kind of disrespectful almost in a weird way, even to them to try to craft something that isn't your authentic self. So we were totally confident just doing what we felt was right and recording the stuff that we thought was awesome. And we were like, cool. If people don't like it, that's fine. I mean, we enjoyed making it, and I'm glad it's done. And if people like it, sweet. That's cool, too.
00:49:42
Speaker
Either way, it's fine. Back in the day, we used to have to rely on touring and stuff to somewhat make a living, and that's laughable to even say make a living. I think even back then, we may have thought we were being really pure and not letting that get in the way, but in reality, I think
00:50:04
Speaker
It probably did affect things a little bit. You know, we didn't want to get too crazy or, you know, too out there because we probably felt, Oh, well no one will like us. And then we can't do this anymore. And, you know, so it's nice to have some nostalgia for the, uh, like that part of things, like the, uh, I don't know what to describe it as like, I guess like the, is desperation the right word of like living on the road in a van?
00:50:33
Speaker
filled with McChicken farts and not knowing if you're gonna have a place to sleep that night and stuff. Like, is there a part of you that, like...
00:50:42
Speaker
just belongs for those days again, or is it like, no, now I get to do the part that I like and I don't have to do that. Yeah, there's definitely a warmth for those days. I remember them very, it was fuzzy and warm, but oh, never again would I ever do anything of the sort.
00:51:04
Speaker
Also, it wasn't like we did it. It wasn't like we did it for like a few summers or something. Like, you know, we we did it for so long that it was like, you know, not to get too deep, but like it was pretty painful after a while. Like it was not fun. Like, I mean, it was fun at the time because what else are you going to do? But, you know, when you're away from home for that long and like I know money is not everything, but like financially, you have nothing to show for it. And you're just like,
00:51:31
Speaker
and your booking agent and manager are at home not doing shit, but not leaving and they're making more money than you. You just start to feel like a piece of shit. You're like, why am I doing this?
00:51:51
Speaker
not doing it and not having that have to be whatever semblance of livelihood it would be that really truly allowed us to like put the music first and realize like that the writing and recording process was arguably the best part for us you know because in the back of the day that was rushed too you know we had to oh you got to go on a tour then this is happening and it's just not a way to create I feel you know I mean it just like it's not really
00:52:19
Speaker
conducive to that. So, yeah. Cause it's like you, it's always, yeah, the, the new album tour it. And then after you've done the tour, people are like, I guess we need something new to take on the road. You may be able to get a second tour out of it, but
00:52:35
Speaker
Yeah, it's pretty, it's a little bleak at times. For sure. I mean, no hate to those who do it. Like, that's cool, you know, but, and you know, maybe I shouldn't say I'm not speaking for my whole band, you know, this is just me talking. But yeah, like, it just sort of, yeah, for me, not not really a cool thing. No. Yeah, it's not being a musical cross punk.
00:53:00
Speaker
Yeah, I'm good. It's funny, when you have a job and stuff, it's so funny because stereotypically, I feel like people are like, oh, I have a job now. I'm not going to be making music and stuff. And in a weird way, I actually think it's easier now, because you have the thing to take care of your life. So you then can fully focus on music as a cool, creative outlet. You know what I mean?
00:53:30
Speaker
Yeah, I mean so you guys you got because your hiatus was six years something like that It is yeah, she lives here so oh that's so cool. Yeah, she's But yeah, you're so the hiatus was what it was like six years. What was it? What'd you say? I think I think we're the last show is in like 2015
00:53:58
Speaker
I don't actually know that, but yeah, I think it was like 2015. So yeah, like six, seven years of like, that was our last show, I should say. So yeah, I think it was like seven years. Like, cause I think the last show was also in October and those shows we had done before the album was we're actually in October. So I think it was like right around seven years of not, but again, playing live. I mean, you know, we had gotten together and stuff in a row and record an album in between that time. So.
00:54:27
Speaker
Okay, so yeah, when when did you guys just decide like what was like the Hey, I've got this idea. We're thinking about new music Like that was a good few years after your last show that you kind of started writing together again Yeah, it's sort of like Dave and I actually and Dave's a singer We had we kind of like always have like a writing creative relationship So like even right after the band was done we still like sent each other stuff and like kind of like
00:54:56
Speaker
We're involved with creating stuff with each other. So like it kind of was like we just kind of kept doing that in a no titles way. And then 2015. So is that mostly like Pepe the Frog memes? That's like an alright thing, right?
00:55:25
Speaker
It takes some people a little while to get used to Casey's jokes I like the
00:55:36
Speaker
Remember the one that would ride the bike? Datboy, was that his name? Datboy. Yeah, that was cool. That was my favorite. He's gonna have boy. Yeah, that was good. Yeah, so I don't know, probably like a year or two, probably within like a year, we were like more heavily like setting ideas. And then I would say like by 2017, 18 ish,
00:56:02
Speaker
We kind of like went Involved more of the band and we're like we're writing this stuff. It's kind of getting a bit more developed Do you guys want to do it as a fireworks thing or? Totally cool. If not, you know, I mean like it doesn't in a weird way. It doesn't really matter to us like how it is Framed I guess, you know, yeah fire should be cool, you know because it's a thing and if not though that's cool, too So that's kind of like where where it went
00:56:30
Speaker
That's so cool. Did you have to do that all through sending files over there across the country to each other? You're not all still in the same area?
00:56:39
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm me and Adam and Teddy are in Metro Detroit area still. Dave lives in Chicago, which is like a very easy commute. It's four hours. There's trains and what buses. So that's fine. Kyle and Brett, however, are in L.A. So that's a little more difficult. And then the pandemic, too. So that made it pretty difficult. So it was it was weird.
00:57:10
Speaker
Well, that's awesome. I love that. The new album is absolutely killer. Thank you. But I don't want to bore everyone with music talk. No one's here for that. I'm just kidding. But again, so the lyrical content really stuck out to me. It was like there's definitely some overlap of openings here, at least between some of us. So it sounds like that's you. Did you grow up in Detroit? Yeah, I did.
00:57:39
Speaker
I feel like we haven't had a lot of people out of Michigan, maybe a couple, but especially that region of Michigan. Everybody's from Grand Rapids and they're so sweet. Well, I was actually about to say with, like, Grand Rapids is a, like, fucking sweet spot for this whole thing. So, like, I mean, like, that makes perfect sense that if you had anyone, they'd be from Grand Rapids and not in Detroit. Yeah. My dad worked for Amway. He scammed people out of their retirement.
00:58:09
Speaker
want to hear about Jesus. So what is that? What's the general Christian background you got there? All right. So
00:58:23
Speaker
I actually grew up in the Eastern Orthodox Church. So my family, I have an interesting path, I guess, my family immigrated from Macedonia, which was formerly Yugoslavia. So I grew up in a very, uh, you know, different language, a lot of sage.
00:58:47
Speaker
my parents wedding pictures, they're wearing crowns on their head. Yeah, I got a lot of wild stuff. Like that said though, very like comforting and warm kind of like no real, I never was like super uncomfortable with it at all when I was a kid or anything like that. I was, you know, it was the only thing that made me uncomfortable as most of us probably as youths would is like not fitting in with other people, you know, like at school and stuff, like it's nothing I could really relate to.
00:59:17
Speaker
And it was actually like, I felt like I became friends with a lot of like Arabic kids because like, first off, there's a lot, there's a large Arabic population in my church, right? But also they were the, really the only other people who were like kind of more in that immigrant household, I guess. So besides that though, yeah. So that was like the, the church was very, um, yeah, just like different, uh, speaking of Macedonia, a lot of chanting.
00:59:41
Speaker
stuff like that very social to I mean the church was like I would argue that it's like was more still it's probably more of a social event that it is a faith-based thing and you know kind of in a cool way I guess so so there was there was like a community of Macedonian people there yeah yeah and like
01:00:02
Speaker
Not to get too far ahead of myself here but like I think maybe deep down that's another hidden reason why some of the larger religion make mega church type world maybe does bug me a little bit because like
01:00:17
Speaker
it's so not community-based, like pretending to be community-based, but it's not like, you know, like, again, I don't agree with a lot of like the Orthodox, the Mesoamer Orthodox Church probably. I mean, I don't even know where a lot of their stances are anymore, but like clearly like very homophobic and, you know, there's a lot of stuff I don't would never be down with or anything like that. But that said, at least like,
01:00:43
Speaker
That's where like that's where like a lot of local Massoy immigrants like that's where you find like your tribe really I mean that's like yeah the church is like how you find people where you from where you're from and your culture it's such a huge part of the culture is I guess what I'm getting at that like
01:01:00
Speaker
Yeah. They might hate gays, but at least they do it together. And that's beautiful when you think about it. Yeah. And honestly, like, I don't, you know, especially as a kid, you don't know anything about that. You know, I don't know anything about like what the hell they're talking about her. And to be fair, I don't even think they probably really brought it up in church or anything like that. I just think like probably if I Googled right now what their views are, that would be that, I guess, like just because of like how I know a lot of
01:01:29
Speaker
a lot of people in that world are when it relates to being open and inclusive about people and stuff like that. Yeah. When did your family move here? My dad moved here when he was
01:01:45
Speaker
think he was like 16 or 17 and my mom actually was born here but my grandma and grandpa moved here like just a couple years before so for all intents and purses my mom basically grew up in like a
01:02:03
Speaker
the very Massimilian household, although here, you know, yeah, like when she went to school, they were like, hey, she's got to learn some more English like before she before she comes back here, you know, like so maybe take a year or so. Yeah, so
01:02:22
Speaker
That whole like Metro Detroit area is interesting because it has so many like little microcosm communities of, like ethnic communities of people that, I mean, like Dearborn and, you know, some of those places, like a lot of people from the Middle East, Armenian people and
01:02:42
Speaker
Italians and stuff like that. But I lived out in the suburbs, so. Well, no, you didn't live just in the suburbs. You lived in Brighton, you said, right? Yeah. That's where the whites congregated.
01:02:58
Speaker
We're like we're not selling you a house, you know Wasn't how like a big KKK spot like for real Yeah, that's right next door to Brian. So it's cool. That's what people remember about you
01:03:18
Speaker
So when I was living there, and you might remember this at the time, there was like a big national news story thing that came out of Howell because there's an auction house downtown and they were doing a big estate auction thing like that. And somebody had brought in and wanted to auction off their like KKK regalia. I mean, full robe. Oh shit. The whole thing in immaculate condition. I guess they didn't need it anymore.
01:03:47
Speaker
I think the KKK chapter there was really growing. It seemed like it was kind of a past deal. Yeah, far enough in the past for good comfort, but...
01:03:57
Speaker
It was, it turned into this like whole national thing where they were like, you shouldn't sell us, you shouldn't sell us at auction. And then other people are like, you should sell it and somebody should buy it for a museum or something like that. And it ended up that like, I want to say it was like an African-American history museum in Detroit. Okay. Bought it. And they paid like, I mean, it was a national news story. So they ended up paying a lot for it. It was like thousands of dollars.
01:04:25
Speaker
and like the next auction there's like oh man you could have you could have clothed the gospel choir in the amount of robes people brought down there oh because they're like oh it's cool now yeah like i didn't know i was sitting on 15 grand how much did yours sell for i late to the game as always you know i always hold on too long same with dogecoin yeah
01:04:55
Speaker
Oh, boy. Incidentally, your KKK robes and crypto have the same downfall. Yep. Yeah. I mean, that's coming next to the beanie babies. I actually.
01:05:08
Speaker
You just don't even get me started on the Beanie Babies resale thing. But every person with Beanie Babies in their basements can't get rid of them. They're worth a lot of money. They're coming back, bud. Yeah, they're- Yeah, they're- The original Diamond Hands. They're worth money. But I actually had never heard that story.
01:05:30
Speaker
an incredible story in a very sad funny weird way that I mean like I think the fact that like one person sold had I guess I don't want to say the balls because that's too complimentary but I guess the balls to be like fuck it I'm gonna sell my kit this old KKK robe and then after that everyone's like yeah we should probably go take ours down there
01:05:56
Speaker
It'd be funny if it was an African history, African-American history museum or something like that. Is that what you said? Yeah, I believe that. It'd be funny if the whole ploy was like, if we buy this one, everyone else will just dock themselves. We'll know who they all are. I guess that they have the balls to burn crosses on people's front lawns trying to sell a KKK outfit for money isn't completely out of the realm of possibility.
01:06:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's still like, you know, that's definitely where, you know, if you're into like,
01:06:32
Speaker
Getting into like election data and forecasts and stuff. That's Funny. It's like you'll look at obviously cities are always blue like wherever you are and then you know in Detroit You start sprawling out. It's blue blue. That's definitely where like the red starts Okay, definitely come in heavy. So like, you know old habits, I guess you know, I mean like this Like Brighton howl it's like, oh nevermind. We're good for a while. There we go. There it is. But uh
01:07:03
Speaker
They've turned to something else now. They got a new flag to fly. No, actually that said, I feel like that I'm not hating on, not that anyone would care anyway, but I feel like those areas have gotten better. I feel like they're really trying to
01:07:22
Speaker
not be known for that at this point. Yeah, I think as much as boomers complain about how unfairly they've been treated growing up in the most prosperous generation with the cheapest lending and all of that kind of stuff, eventually life's just too good for you to continue to march with the flag. Yeah.
01:07:45
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. You're going to start making up problems like, you know, the tunnels that the pedophiles use to move the children under the country. Yeah. Oh, yeah, the way.
01:08:00
Speaker
I think the Wayfair thing actually got some normal people because they were so bored being at home with COVID. I felt like family members of mine were like, that aren't into any of that shit work. It is pretty weird though. I'm like, no, it's not. It's not weird.
01:08:23
Speaker
I, uh, there was not that now we're going like way far off, but, uh, there was this article that came out. It was probably a year after that whole, the whole Wayfair debacle. Um, and it was like, they had talked to, it was like the kids who were reported as missing that they assumed were being trafficked ended up being found. They weren't really missing.
01:08:47
Speaker
But they just didn't have, there was no real like, we found them. And of course, Googling, it was always their missing pictures that would show up. So nobody really knew they were found. And then they're like, for, for over a year, like we would go to the grocery store and people would see us. And then they would call the cops because they thought that they found us because we're shot. Like it like kind of ruined some of these kids lives for a bit. It was so fucking weird.
01:09:10
Speaker
That's the internet for you, you know. That little boost that makes you feel good, I guess, you know. At least Wayfair doesn't have a brick and mortar store where like a lunatic can show up with an AK to like free the children, you know. But for real, can't eat pizza and free children. And there ain't no pizza left.
01:09:33
Speaker
in a weird way it's kind of like also like fucked up when it comes to like actual trafficking cases because like it's like yeah it pulls the tension yeah and also like you know a lot of trafficking cases you know
01:09:49
Speaker
I know you're finding vulnerable kids and young people in situations and giving them things that they don't have. My point is, basically, it's so wild that these people have romanticized this version of trafficking where they're like, this like, this like. Yeah.
01:10:09
Speaker
crazy group of billionaires and corporations have kidnapped children and are sending them through the mail and cabinets. It's just such a fucking slap in the face to how it actually is the problem actually at hand, but also so funny because it's so not true. That's just like, oh, Jesus Christ. Why do they need to advertise the children as cabinets on Wayfair?
01:10:38
Speaker
It's like, well, uh, you know, that's the thing is like the pedos. I mean, they don't have easy credit card processing. You got to run it through some sort of website, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And they really, they're just like regular trafficking, like people actually have to, you know, that's actually a problem in places like which Don Detroit is just too boring for those people now.
01:11:02
Speaker
You really need a globalist cabal to do it. It also happens to people they don't care about. Let's be real, probably the typical people who get trafficked are not someone those kind of people would put enough interest into caring about in the first place.
01:11:20
Speaker
it has to be romanticized like some young beautiful child in a cabinet in a corporation's warehouse it's just such an insane thing but either way whatever not sure how we got here but we're there now if you had listened to and if you had listened to an episode prior to this you would know that this happens every episode okay okay yeah we never stay on we never stay on topic
01:11:47
Speaker
I'm just curious, like what, how did, uh, so was it the community that was already here that like, I mean, is that how your family found that area and why they ended up in Detroit area or, or was there jobs or something like that that they can't afford? Yeah. So a lot of, a lot of these, like the pockets you're talking about, um, are.
01:12:08
Speaker
is due to the factory jobs. Obviously in Detroit you have the auto industry and that's why there's also a lot of people in Cleveland, Buffalo, the Rust Belt areas with a lot of industry.
01:12:24
Speaker
Actually, the same thing happened in Australia. There's a lot of immigrants, not just from where my family's from, but other places too, because in that same area, that's when Australia was really starting to kind of boom and have a lot of factory jobs and work available. That's mainly the reason why.
01:12:46
Speaker
Yeah. Makes sense. It's my understanding is there was definitely a lot of that in that area. And then when things went south, that caused a lot of problems for a lot of people as like the whole factory jobs thing. Yeah. Like as those jobs started to dry up and stuff, has that community like stuck it out? Are they still there or did they disperse or? Yeah, I think like the roots were just so deep by this by this point that, you know, and I can't speak for all
01:13:16
Speaker
like immigrant families but if you knew anything about mine and the ones that I'm related to and friends with and stuff like they're not moving you know they're just like they're like you know there's even if you if you flirt with the idea like that you might move away a state they'll they freak out okay i think the roots are just so deep uh-huh here's a Michigan question for you yeah what
01:13:44
Speaker
Did your family do, like, little weekend getaways? And if so, like, where did they go? Up north? Oh, yeah. Yeah, any particular spot up north? Yeah, um...
01:13:57
Speaker
So as a kid, we actually had a cottage in Lexington, Michigan, which was on Lake Huron. Um, if we didn't go there, we would go to like Mackinac Island, Mackinac City, Traverse City. Um, and then actually my wife and I and like friends, uh, you know, even before I was married, like we, we go up north and do stuff like that all the time. And my, and my wife's family has a cabin in the,
01:14:26
Speaker
here on National Forest, actually. So we go there a lot. And then we, my wife and I tend to go in like Leland Hall Peninsula, Traverse City. We kind of hang out in that area, if possible. I mean, Airbnb now is impossible. So when we can figure it out, we do it. Yeah. If you're not familiar with Michigan,
01:14:47
Speaker
the Leelanau Peninsula, just Google Torch Lake in Michigan. And it's incredible. It's like the clearest water you've ever seen. It's an amazing place. Okay, so I'm sorry to go off on this Michigan tangent, but like, how would you, okay, for somebody like, okay, so Sam's never been up there. Describe Mackinac Island to Sam.
01:15:13
Speaker
Oh, Mecha Island. Okay, so Mecha Island is, there's no cars on it. Like it's actually a law, like no cars are allowed. Amazing.
01:15:22
Speaker
very old infrastructure obviously like beautiful old homes big-ass hotels fudge shops galore like old stuff like that but also beautiful nature like once you get off the the main strip you can like ride bikes around the island there's it's just it's gorgeous like
01:15:44
Speaker
I don't really know what else to say about it besides that. Then you take a ferry there, and then you take a ferry back at night, unless you're staying on the island. And I hear it gets pretty wild if you stay on the islands. And then if you... It's like the highest... It's a full island orgy, and that's what Casey was hoping you'd get into. Maybe, yeah. With horses. It's like the highest per capita fudge shop and t-shirt vendor location in the United States, I think.
01:16:14
Speaker
Yeah, I can't, I don't know the number off hand, but I can't imagine more than like 400 residents, like permanent residents, I would think. Yeah, it's pretty small. Yeah. And then if you're in Mackinac City, which is right, that's where you take the ferry from. Pretty cool area, a lot of cool old stuff, but also the main strip, you get some Monster Energy t-shirts.
01:16:37
Speaker
that say Mackinac that just say like the monster logo but it just says Mackinac City underneath it for some reason. That was their specialty ripping off other companies logos like I definitely had one that had a Nike swoosh and it said Mackinac just did it.
01:16:56
Speaker
Yeah, because I think what they're trying to appeal to is the kids that are there with their parents. Fuck this place, I'm super bored, but that's a monster logo. You know what I mean? I gotta do that. We've come full circle to the way Christians do their marketing on their t-shirts.
01:17:14
Speaker
Well, yeah, and also one of the last times I was there, my wife and I, I think we were like waiting for my dog to sniff something. So I just kind of stopped in front of a t-shirt store and there was a group of four adults and they stopped and the two men were just staring at a shirt in the window that was
01:17:34
Speaker
Uh, hold on. I stand for the flag and kneel for the cross. Oh yeah. With like crazy artwork. And they were just so seriously like, yeah, uh-huh. Oh yeah. And like pointing to the glass and the wives were like in support. It's not like they were like, come on, Bill, let's go. They were like, oh yeah. Oh, you'd look so good in that? Like, yeah, you should get that. I was like, holy shit, dude. Stop saluting that mankin. They both started jerking each other off.
01:18:04
Speaker
Actually, I started turning off. In the mall here, like there's like the the t shirt vendor stand in the middle of the mall, like in the like the gypsy.
01:18:24
Speaker
wagon vendors or whatever like they have like those kind of t-shirts it's hilarious because they'll have like one side of it is like rappers and stuff like that and then like towards the end it turns into stamp for the cross kneel for the flag if my flag offends you i'll help you pack a lot of that kind of stuff
01:18:45
Speaker
One of my favorite lines of those kind of shirts. If you don't like it, move. That's so funny. If you don't like what I stand for, move. Okay, so I was at a rotting family member had a
01:19:12
Speaker
birthday party for their daughter at a rotten gun club in my area. Easy place to rent out for a couple hours and they say that you could pay to open the bar. So in the it's I mean it's a rotten gun club bar. So I'm sure you already know what we're working with and who's going to be behind it.
01:19:32
Speaker
had that giant like forearm, we the people tattoo. Yeah, I've only recently started thinking more about that. Cause I think my dad also has that bumper sticker. And then, uh, I just keep, you know, you see it more and more and I, the irony is like,
01:19:48
Speaker
that's becoming so prevalent as though like we the people is very much not you not literally everybody who doesn't agree with me isn't this we like i there's just a real poor understanding of what the word we means and who the people are and i think it's kind of fun that
01:20:04
Speaker
It's like a take my definition of America and that's what it is for everybody. The ultimate freedom. It's like one freedom has gone too far. It's like the boomer mantra. It's like, well, I guess nobody told you that all of this is for me. Yeah.
01:20:27
Speaker
They don't really know that like if we, the people all got our way, like, you know, 70 percent of the country would have have already enacted universal health care and shit like that. It's like they don't, you know, they do live in a world where it's like they are probably fully convinced that like 98 percent of America thinks the way they do and everything else is just. Oh, I mean, for sure. I mean, that's I think that's a given. It's like every every like Republican
Election Results and Map Misunderstandings
01:20:58
Speaker
Explanation of an election in michigan like after the fact because michigan is like it's got like a like these major population centers like you were saying that are all blue and so the state would swing democrat like most of the time I feel like
01:21:12
Speaker
And so after the election, it would just be a bunch of people with like a picture of the election map. And it's like, the entire state is red, except for these couple little pockets of blue. But it's like, yeah, but nobody, nobody lives there. I think the line is, I think the line is land doesn't vote. Yeah, that's a good one. I've never heard that one. I don't care, like no hate to like, you know, people who vote Republican, like that's fine. I don't give a shit like,
01:21:40
Speaker
You know, I don't, but that's fine if you want to do that. But yeah, I think it's that is like a very large miscalculation. I mean, that's you know, that's exactly what like the first thing my mom after the election, she sent me like a text or screenshot from one of her friends who felt the way you just described.
01:22:01
Speaker
was like, how could this be real? Look at this. You would think if they fucking faked it, they would at least not put a map out. You know what I mean? How did that get out, though? You know what I mean? We did a map. But no, yeah, I think that's like, whatever. Again, I don't give a shit. But yeah, it's just one of those things where it's like,
01:22:23
Speaker
I don't think anyone's thinking like, oh, the whole Grand Rapids area, the whole Metro Detroit area, Traverse City, Leland Hop, and it's like, you just start all the college towns and Arbor, you know, it's like, yeah.
01:22:36
Speaker
We wouldn't even have to say it, but obviously, if you counted that up, it's not going to tip the scale the other way. Who counts? Yeah. I only read you. All right. Let's circle back to your life.
Eastern Orthodox Upbringing and Rebellion
01:22:51
Speaker
Sorry. You grew up Eastern Orthodox. Yeah. Basically, after that, if you want me to just keep going about- Yeah, let's hear it. You grew up Eastern Orthodox, you're just like,
01:23:06
Speaker
What, uh, going along with it. I'm young, you know, I don't really care. Like I'm just like, this is the thing my family does. Like I said, if I had to be honest, like I don't care now, I embrace it now. But when you're a kid, you just want to fit in. So you're like, Oh God, I really hope no one.
01:23:23
Speaker
knows what my family does on Sunday. You know what I mean? Like the deal and you know, uh, you're afraid of your, you're afraid of like your friends hearing your family's accents and stuff like that. Cause you're like, interesting. Yeah. So like you growing up, you had kind of like, uh, it felt like there was like a discomfort with being from an immigrant family. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Just because like, um, as Casey kind of pointed out, I mean,
01:23:50
Speaker
I grew up in a very white suburb. So for me, it was like, you know, although I am white, I'm just meaning like culturally like, yeah, I definitely felt like a little out of place. Like it didn't like keep me up at night or anything. Like I didn't really care about it that much. But like my point in saying that is like, besides
01:24:11
Speaker
that factor playing a little bit like it didn't really bother me I never really cared about having to go to the church and whatever like that was fine but as I got older
01:24:27
Speaker
I just, you know, I probably started getting into like, like, like punk rock music and stuff when I was like 12, 13. I just, just as most kids that age are disinterested with stuff, I just kind of started being like, this, this is not for me. Like, I don't, I don't want to be, I don't really want to go. My parents had gotten divorced. So like, I felt also like whenever like,
01:24:53
Speaker
I felt like on my mom's side of things, if we didn't really do the church thing much or it wasn't pressed as much on the dad's side of things, it was like, we're going to church, you know, and don't dress that way. You know, shit like that. So I was like, oh, God. And then like. So in the divorce, your dad kept the church. Yeah, my mom.
01:25:16
Speaker
Actually, funny enough, my mom, to this day, they do go to different churches. My dad's dead, so he's not going to much church now anymore. But like, they would always, they always like family side went to different churches. I don't know how to react. It's like such a strong like, I'm sitting here with a smile on, no one's seeing this, but I'm sitting here with a smile on my face and it's the wrong facial expression for the words you just said. I feel a little strange.
01:25:43
Speaker
Sam if you don't laugh you cry, you know Anyway Yeah, so It it became more like I don't like this like I don't like anything about it I just because you're getting angsty at that. I looking back at now. I just think I would have done that with anything
01:26:06
Speaker
But I was like, I don't know anything about this. This sucks. So I got into these punk bands that led you astray. Before we hit middle school, what were these punk bands that were leading you astray? Oh, my number one was Rancid. I mean, that was like, OK. And there was no one that was nothing about music that was like saying, like, fuck religion or anything. I just.
01:26:28
Speaker
just getting into other things and seeing other sides of life. And you know, I think it's honestly like comparable to like, I don't know if you guys went through this, but like being at the age when you could hang out with friends and your family being like, Oh, we're going to do this. You're like, I don't want to, I want to hang out with my friends. Like I don't want to do that. Like, I think it was like just that essentially, you know? Um, yeah. And then I got into middle school and I'd say like, besides the occasional, like having church function, um,
01:26:58
Speaker
Like, religion in general wasn't really much of a part of my life. My family was life more than mine, obviously. Like, I kind of avoided it for a good... It worked out, you know, no big deal. When did your parents divorce? Well, I'm 35, so 80s. I was born in 80s.
01:27:17
Speaker
When I was like eight. Oh, OK. Gotcha. Yeah. So you had this like kind of sorta in and out of it, like didn't go every all the time. Yeah. Well, after your family, after your family. Yeah. And to get on a deeper layer here in night in ninety four and I thought my uncle was murdered. And whoa, I saw like a.
01:27:41
Speaker
maybe looking back that was like started to I don't really realize that at the time but even though I was young maybe that kind of is what started to unravel some of that for me like just kind of seeing how that situation was handled on like a funeral and after that level and very like I said very faith-based orthodox like I didn't think of it at the time but maybe that kind of like subconsciously started to sort of
01:28:11
Speaker
And again, I want to fully say I don't judge anyone. If that's what you need and that's how your grieving process works, that's fine. I still attend these funerals with my family now when someone dies.
01:28:27
Speaker
Yeah. Not my thing. Like it's not like what I'm going to do, but like that said, like if that's what you need, that's what you need. So, um, I think I kind of started to see that a bit more. And then, um, I went to middle school and I felt like I like had some friends that were into what I was into. And like I said, religion wasn't really much of a part of my life whatsoever. And then I had a couple of friends who were, um, like,
01:28:57
Speaker
families belong to I definitely wouldn't call it a mega church, but I would definitely call it like a Larger community church, you know, like big when you went in you're like, holy shit Like I can't believe this is a church especially like they haven't I come from You fell in with a bad crowd
01:29:15
Speaker
Yeah, so what I'm getting at is that was a touch of, OK, I'm starting to see this probably what you guys normally talk about more. I'm starting to see how my family always referred to it as Americans. I'm starting to see how Americans do the church thing now. And that said, my mom didn't hate it. She was like, oh, it's kind of cool that some of your friends
01:29:43
Speaker
You know, go to youth group and shit like that. So they like. I never was much of a part of it. I just knew that like they would see each other at like youth groups and stuff. So not to be just full downer all the time. But one of my friends, the summer between seventh and eighth grade, he got hit by a car on his bike and he died.
01:30:08
Speaker
and that was like round two of like the like I don't understand like I don't get the things they're saying and now in a weird way like it was in English you know it wasn't it wasn't draped in tradition like as I grew up with it it was very like it was very like oh this person is not dead he's alive in the eyes of the Lord and you know all this like crazy shit where I was like
01:30:37
Speaker
what are they talking about like so i was just like very taken aback by that and then um that event happening i think kind of like
01:30:48
Speaker
sort of like I think split like I think the people who kind of like were already going to the church and stuff they rightfully so too again no disrespect they got deeper into it you know because of that event and that led to a lot of like hey you should come
01:31:08
Speaker
you know you should come to youth group sometime you should do this sometime just be and i think truly it was well and good intention i think it was just sort of like sure you know it's fun and i feel comfortable here and whatever so yeah i went to that age when losing a friend you're like okay yeah like
01:31:26
Speaker
Normally kids that age are not really, you're not connecting with the fragility of life. Like that's the, I'm invincible, nothing bad could happen age. And that sometimes lasts up until you're even early twenties, but like to be confronted with the death of a friend at a young age in a scenario, in a, in a setting where there's going to be a lot of talk of
01:31:49
Speaker
you know if this happens and someone hasn't accepted Jesus Christ as a savior they're going to hell and all of a sudden that creates a bit of an existential crisis and probably is definitely a catalyst for kids that age being like I need to try to get my friends here like I've already lost one I don't want to lose more especially internally. That's actually a great way to put it honestly I had nothing I really ever thought of either like
01:32:15
Speaker
I think there was that element like, Hey, we should all be in this together type thing. And, um, I, and I'm not saying it's in like trying to sound cool or anything. I just never fully, it was just something I didn't, I never saw. I never really felt anything like that. So I was just sort of like, I don't know. Okay. I'll, you know, and then I would go sometimes to some youth group things. And I just felt so uncomfortable, like all the time because I was like, eh,
01:32:42
Speaker
in a weird way, I just think this is like not for me and very bizarre. And then also in this other conflicted way, I was like, man, I'm kind of like a fucking sellout to like, you know, my, my roots here, my Orthodox, like, you know what I mean? Like, if I'm not going to be going to that church, why am I going to this church? Like that kind of stuff. And, uh, a little bit here and there. What is there a youth group game that stuck out to you is like, what the fuck is going on?
01:33:13
Speaker
I don't honestly remember because I think, I think I'm over saying this. Like I probably only went like two or three times. Oh really? Okay. But I did go on. This is like, for me, this is like the real meat of it. I did go on a couple of retreats with them. Ooh. How many pizzas do you see? Cause lots of pizzas. Unfortunately none. Wow. These kids are pretty shit. You know, like nothing fun, you know?
01:33:41
Speaker
i don't believe i saw many dicks uh all i remember was i remember it being it was fun you know it was fine for the most part i felt like it was like very not jesus-y and churchy as i recall at least
01:33:56
Speaker
And then, um, I'll never forget at this one retreat, I was like standing outside and now when I think about my, I don't know if someone told me to come outside. They probably did the chaperones because they had like male chaperones and female chaperones. Of course, like the dads, you know, I'll never forget like four or five.
01:34:19
Speaker
There's like four or five dads and two of them were like dads of people who I were like kind of friends with to where I kind of knew who they were a little bit. And I'll never forget. They're like, so Chris, like, uh.
01:34:34
Speaker
Have you, have you thought about like when the time's going to be right for you to give your life over to Jesus Christ? And I was just like, I'll never, I'll never forget it. Cause I was like, I don't know. That's, I'm sorry. I don't care what you say. That's fucking weird, dude. Like I'm like 13 years old. Do you know what I mean? Like that's such a weird thing to like to say to a 13 year old, like without even talking to their parents or you know what I mean? Or like,
01:35:00
Speaker
just like it's just a weird thing that would never happen any other sort of group or setting you know like it let's just be real it's not so like that's such a cool point about it like not talking to pay so I'm uh I'm gonna the school adjustment counselor and I can't say shit I cannot talk to kids at all
01:35:22
Speaker
almost about anything without getting consent from parents. And you think of all the weird conversations that like kids have with adults about how much they jerk off or if they've had sex or when they look at porn and you're like, you know, you're not qualified for shit. You're just a weird dad that cares too much about how many titties this little boy has seen. And yeah, it's like so weird in there.
01:35:48
Speaker
I just remember thinking to myself, like, I was just frozen because I mean, I mean, you have four or whatever it was, like grown men around you, like surrounding you. Yeah, like and I at first was like, oh, I think this is like a general question. I don't know. I don't know anything about this shit. So I was just like, oh,
01:36:12
Speaker
I think honestly, I think I remember saying something like, oh, I go to church with my grandma or something like that, like trying to get them to leave me alone. And then they were like, no, no, no, like we could do it right now.
01:36:28
Speaker
It sounds like the story of someone who's getting molested, but you're just I'm not gonna say it's the same thing obviously it's not but it's like definitely like I do think that power structure is there I'm like seriously I mean I think like
01:36:42
Speaker
It's just that's the same you know like and I just like to be completely honest with you I felt even looking back at it now I feel like I got out of something you know I felt like when I was like somehow just thought to myself like I gotta get the fuck out of here and just kind of was like I'm good see you later and walked away I like give credit to myself even at this age because I'm like I
01:37:06
Speaker
It's not like anything horrible when it happened, but it would have been really fucking weird. You know what I mean? Yeah, right cuz now when I look back and maybe you guys could fill the blanks in a little bit for me But like looking back I I assume what that meant was they were gonna like pray around me and like and like have me like confess to like Give my life up for Jesus and like join the church and shit, you know, that's all I can imagine they were getting at
01:37:33
Speaker
I don't really know though, you know, like yeah, that was it. They would have prayed that they would have been like repeat after me and then it would have been like You Jesus I'm a sinner. It would have been the most meaningful experience of your life I wouldn't be here today So a lot of times like people who grew up in the evangelical world like we did They just kind of use like Christian as a oh, it's like
01:38:04
Speaker
It's Christian is such a broad religion like the way it functions from denomination to denomination is just.
01:38:15
Speaker
It's wildly different. So, I mean, you're growing up Eastern Orthodox and you never once in your entire life were asked to accept Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and savior. And that's like, you know, I don't know. I mean, there's, there's some rule in there about how many candles you can have in a church before it doesn't count as Christian anymore.
01:38:38
Speaker
It's pagan. Your sounds are very candidly. I imagine their candle count was high. You light a candle to say a prayer, you know, like that's...
01:38:47
Speaker
And then again, I'm probably biased as I grew up with it, but like in a weird way, like, I don't know, like that's actually kind of like a reflective thing. Like, you know, like I remember like we would drive, I'd be like hanging out with like my aunt or something. And we'd be like in the area of the church. Let's just stop by, like, obviously on like a Monday or Tuesday and be like, let's just stop by and like light a candle real quick. And we would go in and they have like the, just like,
01:39:11
Speaker
Candles and you would put like a dollar in the box and there's no one there or anything Like it's not like you're talking anyone and you just like go and you like you put the candle with the other candle put in the sandbox and then like you cross yourself and like Again nothing I would do now, but at least it was like kind of like Personal and no one's bothering you and you're just like even if you don't believe in prayer at least like you're Reflecting on something I guess like yeah, I could be a very like
01:39:41
Speaker
The church I'm talking about with the youth groups and probably what most people connect to in the States is very, I feel extremely intrusive. And I would think like, I would actually go as far as saying I think that church I'm referencing is probably actually pretty cool overall.
01:40:01
Speaker
like I don't I don't really know much about them since I know like friends of mine you know whose families are still kind of involved and like I don't think they do any harm or anything like that but they're just like very awkwardly intrusive about yeah about
Evangelical Encounters and Rationalizing Beliefs
01:40:19
Speaker
like
01:40:19
Speaker
i mean let's be real it's because if they are basically taught is an understatement you know like um it's their mission to take people like me and whether it's authentic or not whether it's a power trip that they enjoy exercising or whether they think they're actually saving me it is their their mission to like save me because anything else that i'm doing is not good enough you know so like
01:40:47
Speaker
It's I guess if that's what you truly believe or that's what you truly get off on, I guess either one like it's pretty hard to like get away from you know what I mean? Like it just that's what you do. So I think it's I think most of them I think it's it's like comes from a good place. They really feel that it's their calling to like try to save kids from hell and stuff. And, you know, it's funny to think about
01:41:15
Speaker
how you know, because we grew up evangelical. And there's this a lot of pressure and a lot of talk to like proselytize, you know, and talk to people who don't think like you and try to convert them and stuff like that, which was really uncomfortable, like try to talk to your peers about that. But it's it's funny to think about like, grown men and women getting uncomfortable because they're like, kind of guilted into talking to children.
01:41:44
Speaker
about this stuff, because I guarantee you those dads are like, hey, so, Chris, you know, what wanted to talk to you about sorry, are you good? Are you hungry? Okay, you know, what you're missing, though, Casey, is there's a big difference between regular church dads and church dads that volunteer for youth group trips. Awesome. My parents did some youth group like weekend trips.
01:42:12
Speaker
But were you going on them? I was on one or two of them. Yeah. So not all of them. So they went on some without you. Yeah, I remember at one point they helped with the like high school group when I was still in like junior church, middle school, like the junior high youth group or whatever. So that stuff they were doing with kids that were older than me. And gotcha. And I feel like they really hated it. Like they did it out of obligation and they really hated it.
01:42:41
Speaker
I respect that I just think I don't know like I think maybe people also aren't thinking it through fully like as in like when you really look at it you're like what is the end game like if you really get deep it's like what is the end game of what you're doing and it's like getting more people to the church okay what does that mean more money for the church like what is the money like
01:43:09
Speaker
You don't really have any authority over what they say at the church or how they act. You know what I mean? It's just like when you actually see it all the way through, it's such a weird, in my opinion, I don't want to offend anyone, like a very fucked up thing to like really like get behind because it's just like so empty. Like you're doing this work for someone else and like the payoff is like you should feel good, I guess, about it. But then it's like,
01:43:37
Speaker
Alright, so today we're gonna talk about how like, you know, gay people suck, you know, like it just sort of like, like, or whatever it is, like it just sort of like, probably a lot of those people, the work they're putting in just like in any profession, I guess even like, it's not being their views probably aren't as represented, potentially, that or at all, you know, because like, sure.
01:44:00
Speaker
They're getting people into this thing and then it also ends up being more money and then that money is dispersed in weird ways and then also the way they like hook people and you know get looped into politics and stuff is not right and like it's just like
01:44:17
Speaker
The system itself is, from my view, is so broken that it's hard for me to even, like, give a pass to, like, those dads, for instance. Because I'm just like, you're an adult, you should think about this shit. Aside from the, like, non-consent from my parents and, like, just being creepy overall, like, this is kind of like a bigger play than, you know, uh, me. But again, to your point, Casey, like, to them, maybe it's just like, uh...
01:44:46
Speaker
We should, there's a kid here whose friend died and he's here as a friend to these other people and he doesn't go to the church. So we should probably like invite him to the church, you know, like a weird way to do it, but you know what I mean? They believe, they believe wholeheartedly that they need to sit, that you need to get.
01:45:06
Speaker
Say that your in your eastern orthodox background wasn't enough that you needed to get saved and that meant repeating after them and the irony being like this is the first step they would they would think it's the first step but then they would want you to join the church and want you to.
01:45:22
Speaker
uh eggs at least seem like that that was meaningful uh but it often does stop at this guy got saved this weekend this praise jesus and then there's a move on there is and right i don't
01:45:38
Speaker
how they rationalized that in their heads, I don't know. I was them at one point, so I think I get it enough that that's all that it is. You just, you rationalized it. I saved some of, I quote unquote, saved a friend and I rationalized it. And I was like, oh, he got saved, but now he's just like, you know, he's got a long history and he's coming along slow and steady wins the race. And you're just like, you rationalize, you justify because you need to, you need, you need that rationalization
01:46:07
Speaker
So, it doesn't upend what your belief system is because they can't work together. You have to just like explain and qualify your set of beliefs. Otherwise, they won't work. It's an ideology with long tendrils like most ideologies, you know? Yeah.
Episode Split and Listener Engagement
01:46:31
Speaker
Hello friends, it's Casey and I'm interrupting our conversation with Chris because we found ourselves in a bit of a pickle here. We talked to Chris for quite a while and then on top of that, you know, I wanted to talk about witches, which
01:46:46
Speaker
We went on for quite a bit as well. So because of the length of things, what we decided to do is divide this episode into two parts. The latter of which, the conclusion to our conversation with Chris, I'm planning on releasing on Friday morning.
01:47:03
Speaker
keep an eye open for that it'll pop up in your podcast feed and you'll get to hear the end of this great discussion with Chris and get to hear him talk a little bit about fireworks and some of that stuff so great conclusion to things
01:47:18
Speaker
And you know, while I'm here, I wanted to take the opportunity to remind you that we do have in our link tree on our Instagram, we have a Google form, which is a guest request form. It's kind of a questionnaire that you can fill out and tell us a little bit about yourself. You know, we get a lot of requests for guest appearances.
01:47:39
Speaker
from, you know, people who maybe have written a book or something like that, and just, you know, regular people that have a story they want to share. We obviously we can't guarantee anything, can't have everybody on because there's there is quite a few of them. But if you do want to submit your story and see if there's something there that we can talk about,
01:48:01
Speaker
Go to the link tree, fill out that Google form, tell us a little bit about it, and maybe we'll get a chance to talk. Some of our favorite episodes have come from either audience suggestions or people who listen to the podcast and were like, hey, guess what? My family's insane. So jump in there and tell us a little bit about yourself and your story, and maybe we can hook up.
01:48:28
Speaker
Also, Discord, jump into the Discord. We got a pretty good group in there nowadays, but it's a fun place. You should join, jump in on the conversation. If nothing else, you know, you can pirate some memes to send to your friends, but it's a really fun place and it's open to everyone. No cover charge. So, that being said, thank you for listening and tune in Friday to the conclusion of our conversation.