Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Ep. 121 – Mosh Pit Exorcisms & Sheepish Dad-vangelicals w/ Chris Mojan of Fireworks Part 2
79 Plays2 years ago
Part 2 of our conversation with guitarist Chris Mojan of Fireworks. Be sure to check out the new Fireworks album “Higher Lonely Power,” and follow them on Instagram (@fireworksmi), Twitter (@WeAreFireworks), and Facebook (facebook.com/wearefireworks)!
Recommended
Transcript
Episode Introduction
00:00:17
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Growing Up Christian and part two of our episode with Chris from Fireworks. Thank you guys for being patient with this particular episode layout this week. I won't waste too much time here, but again, if you enjoy the show, leave us a review wherever you listen to it and share it with friends. If you aren't in the Discord yet, you can find a link to that in our link tree, our Instagram bio.
00:00:46
Speaker
you should definitely join it's a fun place. So without further ado, here's the conclusion to our episode with Chris from fireworks.
Memorable Retreats and Personal Stories
00:00:57
Speaker
What do you happen to remember any of the names of the retreats that you went to? No. Like did you go to winter camp or something like that or?
00:01:07
Speaker
I don't, I remember one of them was actually like, one of them was actually really cool cause it was like, we went to like the dunes, you know? Up north and that was cool. And then the other one we were-
00:01:22
Speaker
Yeah, and the other one we did go to it was in November I remember that and we were just kind of in some like Naturey area probably in like it honestly may have even been around where you grew up Casey like sort of in that realm not too far away You know mean but like not too close to where we're from and kind of naturey
00:01:43
Speaker
And that's all I really
Redemption Episode Discussion
00:01:46
Speaker
remember. I don't want to go back too far, but do you think we could do episode two of this? I could get some of those dads on, and we could do a redemption for them, like try to see. Like try to see if they could round two my work. You know what I mean? Yes. I mean, they might be. Who will round table this? I'm up for it.
00:02:06
Speaker
Roundtable, I'll come up with some great questions. Casey and I will moderate the discourse. Oh, this is perfect. I love this idea. That would be funny. They're like, who are you? We forgot about you as soon as you were gone. And you don't know how this works, do you? You never came back.
Evangelical Culture and Cornerstone Festival
00:02:24
Speaker
Did you ever, did anything ever like bring you into it or were you always like adjacent to that, that evangelical Christ, like mega church? Always very adjacent to it. Always very adjacent to it. My, my best friend, Brett, who's actually in fireworks as well.
00:02:40
Speaker
He honestly like I know you're this pride I want you to from the same but like he would be a really good person for this because like He was the person like some of the people I'm talking about who were kind of into this like they had him do Okay fashion and stuff like nice. I went to it as a friend, you know, and I was like, what the fuck is going on? This is crazy, but like no it was always adjacent to me and
00:03:10
Speaker
And the, I think the true climax of this all was Cornerstone because. Yeah. Yeah. Because I played Cornerstone. Kate, what the fuck, Casey? What band? Oh, it barely counts. Poison written. We played those ones that were just like a, uh, like the generator. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't a, we weren't a main attraction.
00:03:40
Speaker
Yeah. I remember a band from Michigan playing called With Wings of Lead. How's that for a metalcore name? It's so metalcore. That is, dude. Well, I think I was completely comfortable in the fact that I was not part of that and was a non-believer. And then I think a lot of
00:04:03
Speaker
clearly because they don't care. That's another thing I want to say. Some of my friends who were part of this were so fucking cool. They knew I wasn't into this shit, but they were like, I don't give a shit. They were like, come hang out with us. That's what it was like. They weren't actually trying to convert me at all.
00:04:21
Speaker
You know, one of my best friends this day, I mean, Brett's not a believer anymore. But like, one of my best friends this day, that was kind of all with that. Totally not into religion, but like, total Jesus Christian guy, like in a great way, though, you know, it's like, it's awesome, you know, and like, my point is, even then, like, we were, we no one cared, they swore and did dumb shit, you know, like, it wasn't, but um,
00:04:44
Speaker
Since I was so confident in not really being a part of this, I felt more open to doing some of this stuff because I was like, oh, I don't care about this shit, but I'll go to this music festival where we're camping.
00:04:59
Speaker
The first year we went, I mean, I will say that the cornerstone experience was like I went two years in a row. And I want to say it was truly one of the most like eye opening, bizarre, just like I don't have enough words to really put into just how insane that that festival is. And like especially what years are we talking?
00:05:23
Speaker
We're talking to one. I want to say it was like two. It was either 2002 and 2003 or 2003 and 2004. I don't. Oh, man. That's right. And the cut. Yeah. So to give you a little synopsis, a little rundown because there's too much to even go over. I'm googling the lineup of 2003 cornerstone right now. Well, I'll give you I'll give you this. I remember.
00:05:51
Speaker
It was in North Carolina? No, it was in Illinois somewhere, right? All right, this has to be the wrong thing then. Yeah, it was in Illinois somewhere. During that band, Zayo, like the metalcore band. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Still a good band. Zayo was great. Actually, that's one of those people. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.
00:06:17
Speaker
No, it's just that every time I hear the name, it rings a bell because it's like they've come up a million times. They have a long history of like being a Christian band, the ups and downs of that. And every time I hear it, I'm like, oh, fuck, I still have. I just always forget to try to contact people from Zeo. But they're I think the singer would be a Christian metalcore.
00:06:38
Speaker
i think the singer would be a good one because like i don't think they are a christian band anymore no they fell off a little while back but even they had the word are they aren't they kind of thing for a while that really fucks some christians up right
00:06:55
Speaker
They really had the longest previous member roster. It's unreal. They have a fantastic DVD. Was the DVD The Lesser Lights of Heaven DVD? Or I know that was one of the songs on the funeral of God. But they have, yeah, they had like, when bands, do bands still do DVDs? I don't think so. I think they would just be YouTube videos now, right?
00:07:23
Speaker
All right, sorry, man. Sorry, go. No, no. This actually doesn't really have anything to do with, hey, that's the best part. A girl had a fake exorcism during their set. I'm not making this up. The crowd parted, and the man stopped playing. And she was on the ground acting possessed.
00:07:48
Speaker
People not extra. I'm sorry not extra some possession. I'm sorry. No one exercised. Okay. She uh, she Wow giant failure on the Christian part True I didn't thought about that way but true like she I mean I'm gonna say faked and I think everyone here would agree and most listeners would agree She looks like acting like she was possessed during their set and I would love to be able to say like poor girl actually had like a fucking seizure or something, but no she was like
00:08:18
Speaker
like yelling and stuff. And people were like terrified and they were like praying and stuff. And I was like, where you guys think this is real? Like, holy shit. And then I remember it was like people were buzzing about it like the next day and later on that like this girl was possessed and had this weird possessed episode. And then we like saw her at like Meijer, you know, I guess we're like getting some fun. It's like walking around and stuff. And I was like,
00:08:47
Speaker
Yo, these people are insane. And that's so that's my first part. My second part is it's where I truly learned about like the pro life side of like that world. Like I know something I just never really thought about because I was young, you know, I guess I don't really think about that shit ever. And then I just kept seeing like fetus images and like stuff like that. I'm like, what about? And then I was like,
00:09:15
Speaker
oh okay like this is like uh and obviously i got a little more educated myself and i was like okay like i'm starting to understand this but like yeah it's kind of i talked about this with ian a little bit who did our interview on stereo gum because his um his i'm sorry i don't know if it's his girlfriend or his wife but um
00:09:37
Speaker
she was a part of like the evangelical church and like a big cornerstone goer and like she's a photographer and stuff now i think he said but like she something like that but anyway she he was just saying how like she talks about what i'm about to say a lot which is like this like the weird ass like crust punk crossover too into like
00:09:58
Speaker
Christianity like there's like a crust punk scene at cornerstone and like it was just so Mind-boggling to me because I was like, how does this happen? You know, I mean like how does how are there people who believe in this stuff in their crust punks to like I don't
00:10:17
Speaker
I don't know. So like, my point is like, Corso was like, in a weird way, like, I already was like, this shit is crazy. It was definitely like the final nail in the coffin of terms of like, I don't know what the hell this is all about. I don't get it. I don't get why how radical these people are, how passionate they are. I don't I just don't understand
Leaving Evangelicalism for New Paths
00:10:38
Speaker
it. You know what I mean? Like, it was all very wild to me.
00:10:41
Speaker
So did they have like a pro-life booth set up or something like that? Or rock for life? I think so. I couldn't tell you. All I do know is that like a friend, a friend that went girlfriend, I remember like bought a sticker and like had it on her car and I'd always be so fucking embarrassed driving in there. It's like if we ever did anything and I added up in her car, I'd be like, oh no, no, no, no, no. It didn't last very long, I don't think, on her car, but you know.
00:11:09
Speaker
Rock for Life was one of the big vendors for apparel with anti-abortion shit on it. A friend of mine had a hoodie that was like, she's a child, not a choice. And then I, with no nuance at all, had giant block letters, abortion is homicide. And I still cringe when I think about that time in my life. It's pretty courageous of you.
00:11:38
Speaker
when I was in a... Very brave. I felt brave. So I was just in a local metalcore band in high school. Who was it? Yeah, right. So I don't know if you guys ever coming through this area, you might have hit the Worcester Palladium before. Does that sound familiar? Yeah, we actually just play there in October. Yeah, and I was actually not to go off on this fucking bum because I was trying to go. You were there with the Wonder Years, right?
00:12:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, I was trying to get to that show, but my friend decided to get fucking married in Virginia. What an asshole. How selfish can you be? And then you guys were in DC the day before the, I think it was the day before his wedding. So I was like, well, maybe I'll just fly to DC, rent a car, like go to that show, rent a car, and then drive to Virginia after that. And we were trying to meet up in DC and none of it worked out. I was major bummed that my friend ruined
00:12:33
Speaker
my ability to experience that tour. So anyway, fuck you, Jacob. We'll put that out there. Um, but so the Palladium once a year, they used to, I think back when everyone was in metalcore bands and maybe there's not so many of these days, but it was like one of those like bullshit battle the vans kind of things. And, uh,
00:12:55
Speaker
I, uh, I wore my abortion as homicide shirt that night and it was weird. Were you victorious? No, I mean, so the one thing I remember is feeling kind of embarrassed, but feeling like I was really standing up for my faith and then someone yelling abortion rules from the audience. You won no earthly rewards that night, but
00:13:23
Speaker
heavenly ruins maybe that might have been like what kick-started my friends being like I don't know if this is a good fit for you man why was it small like too tight on you stupid whoa it was tight as fuck dude because what it had to be at the time right yeah yeah it had to it had to be short enough to show my studded belt with my Zayo butt belt buckle bring it back as a second I did have a cool Zayo belt buckle
00:13:52
Speaker
And of course my skinny jeans. So, right. You had to have like part of your gooch sticking out of your jeans. They had to be that low and that tight.
00:14:01
Speaker
It's like the mantle toe, I think is what it is when you. So what you're saying is the Palladium was your pulp, your pulpit that night. It was that night and nobody got saved. I remember having like one of those moments though where you're like, it was later on, it was after college and there was like a big metalcore festival thing at like
00:14:27
Speaker
It was called Bledfest. I don't know if you ever went to that, but it was in Heartland, Michigan. We played one year. Maybe it was one of the years that I went. I think Fireworks played one of the last years. It was like 2014, maybe, or something like that. Oh, that might have very well been there or something. But I remember Four Today played. Oh, I know what you're getting at.
00:14:54
Speaker
Yeah, they the guy would like he is a big guy with dreads and he would like preach a full fledged sermon from the from the stage
00:15:06
Speaker
And I wasn't like a huge fan of them anyways. And like that was really uncomfortable. And I don't know, but I remember like this guy, somebody had like pushed a kid, you know, that that typical like metalcore pit drama where like somebody pushes somebody and they get in their face and then nobody ever does anything. They just kind of like scream at each other and then they go to their sides. Right. Fight dance to see who the winner is.
00:15:32
Speaker
Yeah, and I remember like the singer like stopping things and being like, guys, you know, that's all we're here to do. We're here to spread positivity. And then he went into this whole big long deal. That was like a salvation message sort of thing. And I remember I was standing behind this kid who was like tall, skinny kid, you know, swoopy haired stuff. And I could see, he was texting and I could see on his phone, he was saying, God is here in this room right now, bro.
00:16:03
Speaker
i was too far out at that point i'm just like oh god why i shouldn't be here anymore god is in this room right now bro the recipient was like pastor damn yeah yeah so like unfortunately like i don't know maybe i maybe uh
00:16:29
Speaker
I'm sure you guys don't have rules on this podcast. But yeah, I just unfortunately was never like part of it. You know what I mean? Like I definitely was on the sidelines though and had my own perspective of it all. But yeah, man. This kind of stuff is like some of my favorite though to talk about because I just think it's like so funny and just so
00:16:50
Speaker
weird and just awesome and it's always interesting to hear like somebody who was who was on the sidelines of this stuff who was like the kid that was getting invited you know and stuff like that because yeah especially in your situation because i don't know if like if
00:17:07
Speaker
there's a thing kind of happening over the past I don't know however many years of people who have come out of that evangelical setting and they're not like they're still looking for some form of spirituality and they end up in like Orthodox churches a lot.
00:17:25
Speaker
like it's a movement of those kids kind of moving into that and it's weird because there's I guess in your mind you group them together in a way because yeah it's Christianity or whatever but there's a real like split between like evangelicalism which
00:17:42
Speaker
I don't know. I guess like the appeal is meant to be like this personal relationship with Jesus and it's all like this. It's supposed to be this big emotional experience that you feel at all times and like, you know, everybody, including us that talks about.
00:17:59
Speaker
About that like there was points in your life where you felt like guilty or like an imposter because you weren't having these big emotions and and and feelings and stuff about what was happening around you and it seemed like everybody else was and evangelicalism kind of like prioritized that and sort of like belittled the like the traditions and the and the
00:18:26
Speaker
What am I saying? The ceremonial side of, of religion, you know, traditional religion, they really like
00:18:33
Speaker
belittled all of that and I think like it's it's interesting how people who come out of that environment Seem to like have an appreciation for for those things now like man what was missing was like ceremony and and traditions and you know like these these things that are almost more like meditation rather than some sort of like forced March salvation prayer and stuff and I
00:19:01
Speaker
Yeah, it's a really interesting way to put it. My friend, one of my best friends, he's still a Christian, the one I referenced before, but it's odd you say that because me and him are both very into weird religious imagery and stuff like that, like of the past and more traditional. So yeah, you might be onto something there.
00:19:30
Speaker
I don't know, I always find myself liking the icons, like the religious, I don't have one in my office, but the old Orthodox religious icons and stuff like that. I actually work for a company, now I won't say the name, but I work
00:19:49
Speaker
off air, I will. I work for a company now that does like Buddhist type meditative, like meditation and stuff like that. Like they're in that world, you know, to an extent, I should say, not strictly, but
Engagement Strategies for Modern Churches
00:20:06
Speaker
It is interesting when I would talk to some people, it is interesting how many came from Christianity. It was so eye-opening. I felt like so many, when they would just talk about themselves or whatever, it just felt like so many people would be like, mention how, yeah, I grew up Christian.
00:20:35
Speaker
whatever and this makes more sense to me now and you know it's like they were still needing that void filled kind of you know what i mean like they still yeah needed it but they found it in like a more more spiritual more personal more accepting i guess also inclusive type environment so i think there's definitely something to that i agree with you like i think
00:20:59
Speaker
Um, that's a, it's like, uh, I went and got, I went to, I was one time waiting to get to, for Thai food to be done. And there was like a bunch of people waiting and this guy was like, Oh, so you live around here? And I'm like, yeah, you know, I wear Thai food for around here, but yeah, I was like, yeah. Like.
00:21:18
Speaker
He's like, oh yeah, my wife and I, um, we just moved here and blah blah. So he's just like making small talk with me. And I just was like kind of starting to get this vibe. Cause I was like, I don't know many people who talk this way. Like I'm fine with small talk, but like some of the questions and stuff, you know,
00:21:36
Speaker
And then he was like, Oh, so you're in, he asked me what I did for a living and stuff. Oh, okay. So you do like digital marketing stuff and ads and stuff like that. I'm like, yeah, yeah. And he's like, do you mind if I ask you a question? Like just pick your brain a little bit, like personally and professionally. And I was like,
00:21:53
Speaker
Sure, like what's up? And he's like, well, the reason I moved here is I'm the, I'm a church director at like a fairly large local church. Again, if mega church is here, they might be like here. You know what I mean? And he's like, I'm just being honest with you. It's my job to try to get people like your age and their families to like come to church. Like, and one of my main ideas is like,
00:22:20
Speaker
I think like, you know, we need to do away with like the morning mass. Like who wants to go to church so early? Like that whole kind of like, I'm thinking outside the box take. And like, I just like was like, I just think like it's different now. You know, I just don't think.
00:22:36
Speaker
you know like he seemed like a nice guy so i feel bad but like you know i just don't think that will be that way ever again like the way he's picturing in his head you know what i mean like uh like i don't think it's the time of church i don't think it's coffee shops inside the church you know i mean i think it's i think it's more than that and i think like a lot of things that people align with uh
00:23:02
Speaker
Christianity with now and especially like evangelicalism is like not good you know and I think like even if maybe they grew up that way they are almost maybe ashamed in a weird way or don't want like people to know you know I didn't go that deep with him you know because like you know whatever but like I thought that was really interesting because this was only like two years ago and like not maybe if that
00:23:27
Speaker
I just thought it was really interesting that this guy was like, nice guy, like seemed smart, but like was just like probably tasked with this impossible duty. I was just like, you got to raise our members by this much. And like, I mean, the dude is saying they're thinking about changing like the time of when church is like thinking like that will
00:23:50
Speaker
He watched like a YouTube video about a Google office space, and he's like, what if we did away with the pews and we had medicine bombs? And we got a kabocha bar? You get your butch on, you know?
Authenticity and Modern Marketing
00:24:01
Speaker
And I mean, hey, you know, what if we catered in sushi once a month? There's something like that. Yeah. You can just record into church when you feel like it. You kind of work your own hours, sort of thing. It is funny how, like,
00:24:18
Speaker
That guy like, okay, so I had a similar situation this past weekend, April and I are in this store and this guy is like a younger guy. He came up and just started like making conversation with us out of the blue. He asked about restaurants locally. And it's funny how like at this point in your life, you're like, is he about to witness to me or is he about to sell me advocate?
00:24:44
Speaker
It's either gonna be like, hey man, do you know where you're going when you die? Or it's gonna be like, have you ever dreamed to own in your own business? It's one of the other scam. It's all about the tone though. You know what I mean? It's just like, you could tell there's a point to it. Like you could tell there's like a
00:25:04
Speaker
being around the bush endgame the way they're like wording things and you're like i was like oh i know it's i fucking know it's coming from this guy oh that's not what i expected you know that was uh oh man but yeah i guess my point that is like it's just like interesting to me to see i don't know i don't know the stats or anything but like much like corporations and stuff it almost seems like like if you want to call mega churches like the corporations like they're probably growing and
00:25:34
Speaker
These smaller churches, even though they're not small, are probably like, holy shit, how are we supposed to get people to come here? You know what I mean? Competing with Amazon. Yeah, we can't compete with the big, beautiful church that has the Christmas plays where the angels fly. It's like, you know, what are we supposed to do? Which is a real thing that happens at a church around me.
00:25:59
Speaker
me. Like, that is real, like a church. The Christmas pageant at Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, that's the one that's adjacent to Liberty University and their Christmas show, they went off. And I remember sitting there even then being like, this feels excessive for
00:26:22
Speaker
a story where they overly emphasize a poor family where Jesus was born in a lowly manger. It just feels very excessive. The smoke billows out from under the manger and there's ominous music and then baby Jesus pops up with one of those two-headed guitars and just shreds 80s style for a couple of minutes.
00:26:47
Speaker
I think the best Christmas story, Pat, whatever the Chris that I saw in a church was when like a woman actually gave birth live and Joseph cut the umbilical cord and they held up the baby. That was unbelievable. Is that real? No, no, no, no. Oh my God. I was gonna say, how did I not hear about this? It was a nine hour program. It was next level authenticity.
00:27:16
Speaker
There was that video that went around this year, like Christian nightmares shared it and stuff, but it was like, the people on the hooks. They're like drummers, I think, and they're like flying across the ceiling of the church in this big auditorium, and they're drumming. And I, so when you said that that was you had one of those near us thinking like,
00:27:35
Speaker
Oh man, is that the Instagram Christmas show? I wonder. No, this is a, this is a Northridge church. It's like on, I think it's technically in, I think it's Plymouth, Michigan. It's right off M14 and it's like,
00:27:51
Speaker
insanely large i don't really know anything else about them besides like they do all the classic modern day like evangelical church shit and like their christmas performance like people who aren't even involved whatsoever will go because they're like it's unbelievable
00:28:08
Speaker
And I remember the angels flying was a big selling point for a lot of people. And a friend of mine, she does the aerial performance stuff. Oh, with the big stash. Yeah, with the ties.
00:28:25
Speaker
Yeah. And they hired like her whole unit squad, whatever team to do some sort of warm up or part of the show, like flying on these things. I'm like, man, it's like, yeah. I don't think they do the drum thing, but they definitely do some like some crazy stuff like that. So I definitely driven by that church. I don't know that I've ever been in, but I remember people talking about it and stuff.
00:28:53
Speaker
There was one in Brighton that was like really, it was just getting bigger and bigger that I went to for a little while. 242. Oh, damn dude. 240. I know just a number, right? That's a church. 242. 242. Yeah. They're not messing with my angel numbers, are they? Maybe. It's a whole numerology thing that actually means like,
00:29:19
Speaker
Satan imbues me or something like that. I don't know Yeah, I imagine that area is like crazy like I mean like not crazy But I would imagine a church like that in that area would do like insanely. Well, I mean like probably so many people
00:29:33
Speaker
It's yeah, it's really like the perfect environment for them. I don't know. It's, it's just a different, it's a thing that appeals to a different group of people. It just, I think like our generation by and large just doesn't love that stuff. And maybe it's because our parents loved it so much, you know, maybe that's why we don't really like it. Cause it seems fake and whatnot, you know, cause I know like,
00:29:59
Speaker
our parents generation really didn't want to go to a church where you just stand stuck, you know, stock straight and sing out of a hymnal, you know, and I don't know, turn around and greet your neighbor. I often wonder if like, there's also an element of like, like, we're in a society where like, everything now like, let's say marketing wise, needs to be authentic, right? Like, like they like, everything is like, like, to your point, Casey, like,
00:30:27
Speaker
Like I remember reading something where a CEO was like, you no longer a CEO of business. You're also like essentially like a humanitarian who has to like explain how they're gonna save the world, you know, like being green and stuff like that, like, and then like, you know, you probably see like, I'm trying to come up with an example right now, but like, you know, like
00:30:49
Speaker
it started with like you could take like Noxema for instance and like Noxema probably used to just say Noxema but I noticed the other day it says like with fresh natural eucalyptus you know what I mean like stuff like that like everything is like yeah or like very natural and not just with product I think also with like
00:31:07
Speaker
work environments and stuff like that. So there might also just be an element where like as annoying as that stuff could be and fake as that stuff could be in the ironic way. There also just might be an element where it's like you can't do that with like an evangelical church anymore or a lot of churches. So like everything does seem fake because like in a weird way it is fake like to people like I mean to people who are there it might not be fake but like
00:31:37
Speaker
oh okay well this sense of community it's not real you just want me to join the church you know what i mean like oh well this cool coffee shop thing oh i say that because we mentioned that in the song but like oh no well it's only there because you want me to be part of the church like everything is almost like this like mirage that's like and i think maybe some people are like now getting too wise to the point where they're like
Pyramid Schemes and Scams Anecdotes
00:32:04
Speaker
that's no this isn't real like you just want to use me for this and you know like i'd rather to your point get into more ceremonial traditional stuff or i'd rather get into like yoga and uh meditation you know what i mean like or influencers you know i know a lot of people say like influencers are like literally the new gods like actually so like you know the new church yeah
00:32:31
Speaker
Feel like it's made me super maybe I'm cynical anyways, but like all of this like constant like constantly being sold Authenticity at every turn It just just made me feel very cynical about anything everything coming from a guy who's a salesperson for a living. I love it I mean, yeah, that's dude. I feel like part of it. So I
00:33:00
Speaker
The thing that I run into all the time is whether it's in a general sense or in my specific automotive realm.
00:33:10
Speaker
like motivational speakers and consultants. I run into them all the time and I hate them. Like I hate them and I just like I've seen so many now like I don't buy it anymore. Like at the company advertising stuff like the constant like trying to sell you this idea that like they're out to help people around the world and stuff and it's like I wish you would just make a good product that I can buy and you would leave me alone. I don't want you like
00:33:38
Speaker
your mission statement. I don't want to hear how you're like cheating the carbon credit situation. Like just just make a product that's decent that comes from a good place and sell it to me and I will either like it and buy more or I won't. But like stop this nonsense.
00:33:53
Speaker
has to be wrapped up in this like yeah i mean there's how many people are also like you know oh what do you do for a living they're like oh i'm like a life coach or i'm like uh i'm a consultant like i always say like people who do that are like you're just actually someone who has the fucking balls to be like
00:34:14
Speaker
I'm going to tell a business that I can like go stand in front of them and essentially tell them how to operate. Like I just have the confidence to be able to do that. I'm not actually qualified by any means but they want this and I just have me one of the people who have the guts to say that's what I do. So I'm just going to go do it because it's like
00:34:36
Speaker
I can't, oh, I, oh, I'm a, uh, I, I help people see like the real them and, or, oh, I help businesses. Oh, how like the, you know, with their team and strategy and it just like all these buzzwords. Yeah. All the buzzwords. The, the, the company that I was working at before I moved into working at a school, um, before he started doing that to children, which was life sucking. So I was in corporate retail and I was, uh, just,
00:35:06
Speaker
miserable. I hated every second of it and but the company I was working for hired a consultant to help us figure out how to get our supply chain like on the up and up and I don't know what you guys know about Bed Bath and Beyond but they're not doing great and this guy
00:35:27
Speaker
came from Bed Bath and Beyond after they did a whole restructure and let go of everybody. So it's like you were in charge of a failing business on the supply chain end and then they were bought and restructured and all of these people left were like forced out.
00:35:43
Speaker
And now you're a consultant telling people how to run their supply chain. And he obviously must know something. But I'm like, I also know he was making my salary every like 12 weeks. And you're just like just being on just so we could have like a couple of conference calls a week with people. And you're just like, that's what you're talking. I mean, he sold it. He sold the shit. Absolutely. Yeah.
00:36:09
Speaker
Like what what the improvements we made based on the info Like he would come in talk to everyone and be like this is what you need to do And then we would all have that conversation and be like we can't do that yet now There's I mean we could maybe work towards it But also not really and then the changes we made were essentially none of them and he still made a lot of money Every time he picked up the phone and you're just like that's it. I mean what I mean
00:36:39
Speaker
And what those people sell is not like, hey, I'm going to bring in like fundamental principles. Yeah. Yes. I mean, I want to bring in some like fundamental principles and we're just going to like fix the small processes that are causing a lot of your things to go wrong.
00:36:54
Speaker
Like that doesn't sell. Nobody's going to pay you $3,500 a day to show up and do those little things, right? What they need to hear is you turn over. I know you don't know what to do with your business that's falling apart. All you got to do is turn over the keys to me. That's all you got to do. And I'm going to fix it. Don't you even worry about it? Hey, you don't even need to watch the books, right? I'll just take care of it.
00:37:19
Speaker
And then, you know, they, they like squeeze them for as long as they can and nothing really changes. And eventually they, you know, they cancel their service and they move on to the next one. Yeah.
00:37:33
Speaker
That's it. Yeah, I mean, you can't get your money back. I mean, this kind of kind of is what it's like. It reminds me of a friend of mine. And like when we were young was like, dude, you got to hear this. I saw this thing. I'm like back when Craigslist really took off, like really was starting out. He's like, I saw one of those like make X amount of dollars a week from home things.
00:37:55
Speaker
But instead of it being like, make $1,500 a week, make $1,000 a week, it was like, make $300 a week. And he was like, that actually seems kind of believable. So he messages the guy. And the guy's like, oh, hey, so do you want to make the $300 a week? Blah, blah. And he's like, yeah, yeah, whatever. So what is the job? He's like, all right, well, the cool thing is it's
00:38:25
Speaker
Working from like your house type thing like that's why it's from home. So all you have to do is you just send me ten bucks and You know like I'll send you the like the course and everything you need to do to make the money and my friend was like Okay, he's like, you know what guy seems normal like ten dollars is not that much to lose He seems like he's a legit dude. He's like, that's a suck it. I'll just say to him
00:38:55
Speaker
So he sends it the $10 a guy's like, all right, cool Like here you go and sense like a document or something and my friend opens up the document and was like, oh my god And it essentially was like so this is it like this is what it is. You do this to other You do this Like and some of the things that were in there were like tips, you know Like don't put the money too high because people are gonna think you're
00:39:23
Speaker
another scammer, you know what I mean? Like keep the money somewhat reasonable. Like show people that you're like kind of smart actually. Like show people that you're like a real person because like they're giving you such little money that like worst case scenario, if they get really, really angry, you can just refund them like five, whatever amount you set. Like you can refund them the five or 10 bucks. They won't care. You know what I mean? Like it doesn't hurt you.
00:39:51
Speaker
And my friend was actually like, this is actually kind of cool. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know if he ever did it, but he's like, this is actually like a very like reasonable way to do this. Like, I mean, yeah, like I only spent like five to 10 bucks. These are some good tips. Like, I feel like if someone else opened this, they from me, they would be like,
00:40:13
Speaker
Okay, like that's, I didn't lose much money doing this. Like, I get the point. He just made 10 bucks. Like, if you got 20 people a week, that's pretty good. You know what I mean? And I'm like, that's not that kind of stuff reminds me of just like, it's pay the money and just like, get what you want people to think it is. And like, you're good. Like, don't excuse me, they'll take you seriously. I would love to see an audience poll of like, how many people listening
Reflecting on Evangelical Culture Humorously
00:40:39
Speaker
had a mom that responded to one of those ads to be a secret shopper. That was like the, the internet. My in-laws were secret shoppers and they ate at Friendly's for free frequently before they discontinued the program. I don't know if it's nationwide, but Casey, did you ever fall for like Cutco knives?
00:41:00
Speaker
I fucking sold cocoa knives. I did. So you did fall for it. I have a cocoa knife. I used it to chop up some deer this weekend. They're actually good knives. I still have the set that I sold when I had to buy the set when I was like 17 and doing this. And I still have it. And I still use it. And the knives are still sharp. That's a good scam right there. Did you ever sell to anyone that wasn't your family?
00:41:30
Speaker
I did. I, I managed to you made it, you made it church was very helpful for that. Uh, and then once you're in their house, they're like, well, I'm going to have to see this bitch for the next rest of my life on Sunday.
00:41:45
Speaker
Yeah, I guess I'll buy a knife. I want to see if maybe you guys can host it. I want to see a Venn diagram of evangelical Christian kids and cut go knives. I hate to say it, but if you're going to fall for one, you'll probably fall for the other. Cut go knives and Kirby vacuums.
00:42:06
Speaker
Dude, the vacuums, I remember, oh my god, I remember the vacuums. I fell for one that was like, and I knew a few other, this one was genius. Also, I knew a few other people who fell for it. It was like, it was described, it was on Craigslist, and it was like art, like art dealer management or something like, something, some buzzwords where you're like, when you're like some creative teenager, you're like, oh,
00:42:35
Speaker
It was like, like art dealer, like assistant, something like that. And the description was essentially like, yeah, so like I own a gallery that sells art and you don't have to do any sales like, or no, like it was like your job would be to like,
00:42:53
Speaker
help with the gallery fish shit where you're like that actually sounds fucking cool for like a 16 17 year old like that's a sweet gig like be around this art and you're like at a gallery and stuff like this is sweet so i answered the ad and the guy was like i wish you could see where i am right now but my my work my office is in like a research park type place you know
00:43:15
Speaker
So this guy was like, Hey, yeah, like awesome. Like, so like, you know, I saw like your resume and stuff seems like, seems like a good fit. Like, which is always kind of a red light when you're like, Oh, I don't even have to interview you. Yeah. Why don't you like meet me here and we'll like, we'll like, you know, see how it goes. Like we'll do like a, so I'm like, Oh, okay, cool. So he gives me the address and I'm like, Oh, it's kind of a weird place for like a gallery. You know, like the city he mentioned in the listing was like,
00:43:45
Speaker
had like a little downtown area so I just assumed it would be there and I pulled up to this like kind of industrial type area like where there's a lot of offices and stuff and it was at like a Wendy's or McDonald's parking lot like where I met him and I'm like what the fuck is going on?
00:44:02
Speaker
So the dude seems totally harmless and I was like I could you know He was I was like I could probably until he opened his trench. I have it. Yeah No, seriously, I'm not Kay I was like I could probably like beat this guy up if I had you know I mean like it really came down to it and unless he had a weapon or something You know, I feel safe enough, but like he seemed fine and he's a cool man Yeah, nice to meet you and whatever and probably in his 30s or something
00:44:26
Speaker
So I'm like, sweet. And he's like, all right, so you will ride in my car. And I'm like, oh, I was like, are we going somewhere? He's like, oh, we have like, remember how I said we sell the art. I'm like, yeah, he's like, yeah, we have to like drop some off, like send some shit like that or deal some or whatever.
00:44:43
Speaker
All right, cool. Turns out what this job was, was another pyramid scheme where, you know, when you go into like a dentist or doctor's office or any kind of office and like, since, since Casey and I are both from Michigan, like you go in there and there'll be like our red wings, like, like Joe Louis arena framed picture or like, uh, Oh God, that was the art.
00:45:05
Speaker
Yeah, you know, just like city stuff. And then there'd be like, there'd be like very like generic like waterfalls and shit, like stock images of like either like local sports, nature, like shit like that. And you're going into these businesses blind and you're like, hey, so I, you know, like in the big portfolio zip ups, you know, like, so I have some art here for sale. If you guys would like to like,
00:45:34
Speaker
put it on the wall you know like like here we have this and like we went to like yeah literally everyone was like get the fuck out of here so basically what I found out was like this guy does that under some fucking
00:45:50
Speaker
parent company or pyramid scheme. And he then hires younger other people to probably do the sales and he'll take money. He's setting up his own little, he's continuing the pyramid by hiring probably a few people to go around and if he gets a few sales, he's like, sweet, so here's your money and here's what I get to keep from my points people. And I was just like,
00:46:14
Speaker
What a fucking sham, dude. This is us. Yeah, I actually was like, that's actually kind of amazing, though, because I bit, you know, I mean, like he bought all that art wholesale price. I feel like that's like that's like Motel six art. It's like you go into the hand and they they have like the painting of like grass on the on the wall and you're like,
00:46:40
Speaker
Yeah, how many of these did they print up? Yeah, I'm trying to think of a Massachusetts equivalent. I don't know, maybe like the Boston Commons or something. You know what I mean? Any picture of Boston or Fenway Park or just like a man with the face of a rat eating a lobster roll and getting it on his shirt.
00:47:16
Speaker
It's like a short emaciated man in a stocking cap shouting racial slurs. It just says Boston underneath it.
00:47:26
Speaker
It's like just highlighting adults who cannot control themselves at sporting events.
00:47:32
Speaker
Yeah, guaranteed after every big sporting event, there will be multiple flips. It's just a bunch of people in Boston hats standing around a flipped car. Just admiring their work. Yeah. Oh, man. But yeah, I guess to combine the two ideas, all that stuff to me somehow goes together with this combo. I don't know why. Like, it's all in the same weird realm of like,
00:48:01
Speaker
Selling something weird and it you know, like just Masses buying in and just fucking I don't know. It's my mind boggling to me. But well, apparently all the Despite being adjacent to all that culture that evangelical Christian culture It had a big enough impact you impact on you to seep into on you guys to seep into the lyrics of Of the new fireworks album a pretty good bet
00:48:30
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think to sum that up, I think it's just like, it's, it is wild how much influence we didn't really touch on the influence part. But I think it goes without saying now, like, how much influence that actually all has. And, you know, not to, I don't really care to explain many like song meetings and lyricists, like, I think that's up for interpretation.
00:48:54
Speaker
But the first song, the title actually alludes to my wife is a nurse in, as you probably know, a lot of healthcare systems are Catholic or Christian healthcare systems.
00:49:12
Speaker
like our insurance wouldn't cover any any uh like like birth control or like reproductive right type thing and i just thought that was like mind boggling because it's just like man we're not even taking part in this you know what i mean this is like not
00:49:30
Speaker
it's just not fair you know what I mean like it's just like it's not we're not even we're not like members of this a church or something that are like that are letting us live in like an apartment you know what I mean like it's like that kind of stuff is like is is that influence is so scary and I know we've laughed a lot about it but like the political implications and influence that holds over people is just
00:49:56
Speaker
Very I think actually terrifying I just I mean that's just how people vote That's how people make decisions on the members of their family That's how they make decisions on who they surround themselves in is like with is like not necessarily even from like Jesus or a Bible. It's whoever is chosen chosen by air quotes people
00:50:23
Speaker
just to represent the church that they go to and like their personal ideals and how they can personal gain and church gain, you know, and that those kind of ideals that they're spreading are like truly like probably ruining a lot of lives and no one, there's nothing you, I don't think those people can be saved from it, unfortunately. You know, I just don't think it's possible. You know, I think that they're too far gone, you know,
00:50:51
Speaker
I like to think of, you know, to put a hopeful spin on it. Like I like to think of your relationship with Christianity as almost kind of like a, like a rom-com thing where the church is Ryan Reynolds and you're Sandra Bullock and like, you kind of hate each other right now, but eventually you'll hump. You think I'm just eventually like 35, like I haven't, it's maybe like 45.
00:51:19
Speaker
Yeah, I think one day you'll be playing marijuana for the first time You'll be incorporating fireworks riffs into like praise and worship songs on stage at a mega church somewhere
00:51:33
Speaker
Oh, that was also very appealing though. I was like, dude, pretty cool. They like play music at the church, you know what I mean? Incidentally, it pays better than being in a touring band. So it would have been probably pretty good too. Dude, they use like electric guitars and pedals and shit, dude. They're not messing around. They got one of those drum kits that's just a bunch of like rubber plates. Yeah, and they also have the drum shield set up.
00:52:01
Speaker
I was gonna say, they have the Trump, the drum shields. Drum shields are a church. It's amazing. They all have the fucking drum shields. Oh my god. That's incredible.
00:52:13
Speaker
Well, this has been we've been keeping you going for a long time, man. But this has been a lot of fun. Thanks so much, dude, for for hanging out with us for the past. God, couple hours. We've let them. Yeah, absolutely. It was fun. Absolutely. Thank you guys for having me. Like I said, I've never done a podcast before. So there's a funny, funny first one to do. I think it's crazy podcast before. I guess when you podcast kind of blew up in your during your hiatus, I guess.
00:52:41
Speaker
Yeah, but also like anything not not saying we'd be interesting enough to have on podcasts, but like I think it would all just be like talking about the band and music and like that's who wants to talk about that. Yeah, it's always awkward for the people in it like yeah, I mean, I guess it's me.
00:52:58
Speaker
Who want? Yeah, who would want? I mean, some people fucking love it, obviously, like they guess. So they're talking about themselves. But like, man, I don't know what else are you going to say? You know, like even asking questions about it feels like when I listen to interviews with people ask questions and they're like, so what does that mean? You're like.
00:53:15
Speaker
You have to feel like an idiot asking that question. Like, I don't I feel weird. I feel like I sound dumb or that the person I'm talking to thinks I sound dumb, which makes me self-conscious when I ask questions that try to sound too introspective about the music that somebody else fucking wrote. It's like, I prefer that. So that's why we do this. That's why we hit it from the side. This is cool because it's like a different look into, you know, just something else that might relate to
00:53:57
Speaker
Christianity and stuff is more interesting than ever hearing him talk about like his music, you know? Because that's what you listen to and enjoy. Like, you know what I mean? So it's cool. Oh, actually, just a little sidebar. He he played Cornerstone. Yes. And that was actually fucking sweet because he was like swearing and stuff. And I was like, whoa, this is cool. And then like, obviously, like a couple of years later, he's like, oh, I'm not Christian.
00:54:05
Speaker
the music.
00:54:25
Speaker
They're like, oh, OK, that makes sense, I guess. I guess he was probably falling out pretty hard at that point. Every game caster that was there is like, I knew it. I told you. Told you not to trust this guy.
Fireworks Music and Appreciation
00:54:41
Speaker
Well, where can people find your music? Everywhere, all, anywhere your algorithms are built for you, you know, Spotify. This is another really stupid question nowadays. Bandcamp. If you don't, I always do like to say though, everywhere like that, if you don't have streaming or access to streaming, or you share on like a family plan, you can't listen to it, whatever, you can download the album for,
00:55:09
Speaker
like name your price on bandcamp uh so that price could be zero dollars is what i'm saying if you want to download for free that's cool that's fine download it um but yeah just fully resigned to the fact that people don't pay for music anymore i love it if you at this point like yeah if you don't have if you if you don't have spotify or apple music or any of that stuff and like
00:55:34
Speaker
I think almost like you deserve to get a free free download. There you go. Who cares? Well, the new album is fucking amazing. As soon as I heard it, I fell in love with it. So thank you for putting it out. I have really been having that on repeat for the past. Awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right, everybody. Well, thanks for listening and we will see you next.