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Ep. 215 – The Book of Mormon: Meesa Called Nephi Binks. Meesa the Lord’s Humble Servant.
259 Plays15 days ago
This week we continue our trek through the Book of Mormon! We got to thinking after last week’s episode that we probably should’ve just started at the beginning. We’ve never read it, so we’re all going to learn and grow together… So come, just as you are, and join us on this spiritual journey through the first Book of Nephi!
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Transcript
Humorous Religious Comparisons
00:00:00
Speaker
i do like I think that's one of the most endearing things about Christianity is that like there's no record of Jesus doing that. But every other religion, their thought leader definitely had sex with a 12-year-old. That's one of the cooler things about Jesus. Yeah. It's crazy that the bar is that low too. You think whoever founded the Jedi Order will mess with somebody? A youngling, you mean?
Introduction and Personal Challenges
00:00:49
Speaker
Hey everybody, welcome to another episode of Growing Up Christian. I'm Sam. I'm Casey. And boy, oh boy, Casey, I am still trying. I mentioned I'm trying to sell my house and I'm trying to move. That implies, I guess moving implies selling your house. You can't sell it and stay in it. ah but it just It dawned on me like the last couple days how much is this is gonna fucking suck. Because my realtor's coming over tomorrow just to do like the assessment. he has he He assessed it before. We thought about selling a couple years ago and then just that it wasn't right. um So he was like, based on the information I have, like I have an idea of what we can sell for, but he's like, I should come over, I wanna come over and check out the property again, X, Y, and Z.
00:01:36
Speaker
Um, today, uh, I was gonna, well, I call that a work. me I know I had, I used a sick day. yeah The best thing about having kids is you can just always say they're sick and nobody questions it. Um, I'm sure that kids at school didn't need your help today. No, they didn't. They'll be fine. Um,
00:01:55
Speaker
But it's funny because, ah well, one karma, I think, or the good Lord, I should say, the good Lord punished me because I decided yesterday, I'm like, I need to just take a sick day. I need to get my fucking house in order for this guy to show up because it looks like shit. It looks like a fucking bomb went off.
00:02:14
Speaker
And in it whatever. He's assessing the property. He doesn't care if I have stuff around. But I do. You know, if you're having someone come check out your house, you don't want to look like shit. So I was trying to like do i I was like, I'm going to take the next tomorrow off and I'm going to like really go hard at cleaning. And then um my wife did the same thing.
00:02:35
Speaker
Uh, but then I got woken up at six o'clock this morning with my daughter barfing all over the floor. So that, I don't know. I don't but make it out what you will, but I thought it was wild. Uh, that, that was gonna, uh, that it's not the first time that's happened. I've considered there are times where I was like, I think I'm going to call out tomorrow. And then not even at my current and job, but just over my employment history. I'm like, I feel like there have been several times where I, or my kids have gotten sick.
00:03:04
Speaker
the day of a planned lie ah for calling out and happened again that was kind of a bummer but it could have been worse ah she was pretty much fine like usually the the stomach bug is a nightmare with kids ah especially when they're younger my daughter is you know she's nine so it's not she can aim for the bowl now when when kids are younger they like see the bowl and they're like it it like triggers like a panic response because they don't want to throw up so when you put a bowl in front of their face they think it's just gonna like make them or some shit so they're like pull yeah like you've put a bowl or bucket whatever you want to call it and it's like the amount of times my kids have like turned their head away from it and just barfed on whatever furniture was in the immediate vicinity he was like it's too much
00:03:55
Speaker
It's a barf and I that triggers my gag reflex. There are people who like can just kind of deal with it. They can clean it up. It's fine. ah I dry heave the whole time. I'm cleaning up barf the entire time. It triggered my gag reflex. Yeah. Dude, people drive even is like.
00:04:16
Speaker
It's one of the funniest things it's awful. No, it sucks dude. I was, I felt it's gross, but I only had to do it once. She threw up that one time and she spiked a little fever, but then she chilled on the couch. She ended up eating some toast a couple hours later. She was completely, she's fine. she put her to bed tonight, still good.
Managing Sick Kids
00:04:36
Speaker
But I'm a little worried because ah the stomach bugs going around their school. So like my daughter and son, they they so share a room ah because they're besties and they like sharing a room. So they have their own rooms, but they sleep in the same room and they
00:04:56
Speaker
So that I'm like, all right, now I'm a little worried. Like they're, they're always together. They play together all the time. Uh, so with her getting sick, I go, great, it's going to hit my son next. But also the past couple of days at his school, there's been like five or six kids in his class who are out because they got the stomach bug. Uh, their cousins got it and they see their cousins regularly.
00:05:16
Speaker
ah So it's going around big time and my son, is i as much as I love this kid to death, is he's a bit of a bitch when it comes to getting sick. and My daughter is tough as shit. she like she could i mean She could puke her guts out and then be like, ugh, my mouth tastes bad. Can I go brush my teeth? like She's just fine with it. She does it, and then it's over, and she's like, can I go watch TV? like ah just She moves on. She'll hold the the bucket. She'll barf in it. I'll clean it. She'll watch TV. like She's a trooper, but my son is like, yeah. yeah
00:05:54
Speaker
ah but my son is like ah he'll just start yelling he's like owie owie owie owie owie my tummy hurts my tummy hurts and he's like all over the place he aims at furniture i'm like dude you just need to chill and he can't every little thing he gets a little boo boo he gets a it's like he needs a band-aid he needs whatever he's so he's such a sensitive soft kid that he like can't he can't deal with not feeling good at all. So ah um' I'm, I'm terrified. So we put the we put a ah ah big like bolt like it's like we use like a big mixing bowl that they can barf into. It's probably the same one we put popcorn in honestly, but they are basically seasoning it like a cast iron. Yeah.
00:06:41
Speaker
Exactly. Just leave a little resin. I'm like trying to give him a pep talk tonight before I put him to bed. I'm like, look man, half your class is sick. Your sister was sick this morning. You might get it. You might get it. And he's just staring at me with his like wide eyes. I was like, am I making you nervous? He goes, mm. But you can see on his face that he's like, oh shit, I'm about to die. Like,
00:07:05
Speaker
but So he throw up on you. I'm like giving him, I'm giving him like the this strategy. I'm like, look, if you wake up and you're going to throw up, just sit there. Here's the bowl. You throw open it. After you throw up, you come get us or you hold the bowl and you walk to us. And if you have to throw up, you stop and you throw open that. And then you come wake us up. Or if you wake your sister up, then you can tell her to come get us. And you need to just sit there with your face in the bowl. And he's like, okay.
00:07:32
Speaker
he won't do that i guarantee he'll barf all over his sister tonight if he gets sick but it it's not dude stomach bugs suck and i feel like my kids are just finally old enough or like it's manageable like when they're younger dude it's just projectile anywhere i'm i remember one time i was My daughter was like, came out. This is when she was like three, four. And I picked her up and she was like, I don't feel good. I'm holding her. And she leans back away from my my body while I'm like holding her.
00:08:03
Speaker
and she projectile vomited all over my chest. It was just down my shirt all over. I'm like, it was like I was stunned. i would just I didn't move, I didn't react. Shockingly didn't drop my child.
Preparing for a Growing Family
00:08:16
Speaker
I was just like, this isn't happening. like you I mean, i couldn't I couldn't even process it for a bit. Taking my shirt off, I was like throwing up because you have to pull that puke shirt over your head. And it's like, you feel it you feel it touching your,
00:08:32
Speaker
You're like trying to stretch the neck out and get it over you without it touching your face, but it it doesn't work. and You basically just wipe your face on the inside of a bar shirt and it's it sucks. So now that I'm having another kid, i'm like I was thinking about this today where I'm like, fuck, I'm going to have to go through this again.
00:08:51
Speaker
like that that just vomit everywhere clean it up several chapters three of the projectile vomit chapter of your life i think that's the thing i'm looking forward to the least that's the thing i'm like actually most anxious about and upset about is like having kids is great uh for me i love it obviously you'd hate it but it's like i I that's it's that and um just, you know, you know, the the first couple of years of their life barely getting any real sleep. But otherwise, otherwise, I'm excited. um Anyway, that all devolved from me trying to sell my house. I don't know where I was going with that other than I stayed home all day to try to get as much shit done as I could. And I had some a little bit of interference. But here we are. Hmm.
00:09:41
Speaker
I can deal with some horrors. like yeah I can handle some some very gross things. You can, and it's very interesting because you're like, I'll field dress a deer and accidentally puncture its stomach, but the idea of having a kid throw up is too much. I can handle throw up. i I don't handle my own blood well.
00:10:01
Speaker
No, no, or like once in a while, like I kind of hyper fixate on something like blood related and I just spiral and they start getting lightheaded and
Sensitivities and Anecdotes
00:10:12
Speaker
the swatchy vision and then really? Oh, yeah.
00:10:16
Speaker
and once it starts like you can't stop seems like i don't know how to pull out of it like once i start feeling that way you know what about other people's blood is it just yours or if you saw other if someone else was like bleeding or injured would you be able to like handle it or would you would say it's mostly mine Yeah, like mortality kicks in. You're like, oh, I'm dying. My sacred fluid. Don't let it spill. Yeah, I don't know why that is, but it's always been that way. like Since I was a little kid, like I got bit by a hamster in second grade, and my fingers started beating. Oh, your fingers.
00:10:55
Speaker
If I start feeling bad, I instinctively like go to the toilet. Like, I just like, that's the only way I can recuperate is just like sitting on the toilet and like, just like doom spiraling until I finally like even out. You need to suck air up your bottle. You spread your butt cheeks and you're good. Like that's, that's the only way you can feel good is if you spread your butt cheeks. Yep. Need a little cold breeze down there. Purnium. The Yeah, it's like the opposite of like ah the sunning thing, you know? Oh, yeah. When you like take sunlight directly into your asshole. Yeah. Just lay on the ground like a baby with your butthole in the air. Was that a real thing that people were chalking up or is that as like real as people talking about how you should like rub piss and shit on your face for your pores and your skin? Is it like like I know someone does it, but is it real like it?
00:11:51
Speaker
Does it work? Is that what you're asking? Cause no, it doesn't work. Like, but did these things go viral because they were so absurd or like people like, you know what, this is this, this might work for me. Like the people, I don't know if people were really trying it or if it was just like the hilarity of the idea of it made the videos go viral.
00:12:11
Speaker
I think it's, I think it's probably partly both, but like it definitely fits into the, into the, the rhythms of that, like annoying white, like, uh, self-help guru, you know, pseudo Eastern religion, hippie nonsense. yeah In other words, the most annoying people on the planet. It's, it's funny. Well, yeah, it's, I never saw anyone talking about it on Tik TOK or.
00:12:40
Speaker
whatever real other than like white women. But it also is funny because it's like kind of the opposite of bleaching your asshole. Like some people want to bleach theirs, others want a nice solid tan. Do you just figure maybe if you ah if you get a little tan down there you won't be able to see all the stretch marks? All the wrinkles.
00:13:07
Speaker
You know who gets a little sun on their behind is our buddy, ah Dr. Luke Wilson. Yeah, Dr. Luke can get it, dude. he Oh, my word. he's ah so we've We've made the ah the close friends Instagram rotation for for Luke, and once in a while you click on it and you're like, oh, my God. Oh, that's too much.
00:13:29
Speaker
It's never too much. He's got some nice perky butt cheeks, too. I wish I had perky butt cheeks like that. I think they audition. Like, you probably have to go through like a trial process before you can be in their friend group. Like, if your butt's droopy, you're not coming to the beach with them. I know. And it's funny. we He invited. he I mean, maybe it was a foe invite because it's not going to happen. But it's ah he's living fast and loose, doing his living his best life, being, you know, either they' wearing a a little, uh, little thong or being nude on the beach and shit. And I'm like, yo, he was like, yeah, you should, yeah, come, you can come visit anytime you can join this and that. And I'm like, I do not have the confidence to be around a bunch of fit gays and put my body out there like that. My little yeah weird dick and flat ass with you guys. Nah, I don't think so.
00:14:25
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, mine's there when I need it, but when I don't need it, it's, it's not impressed. Nobody's
Body Image and Social Trends
00:14:32
Speaker
writing home about it. That's for sure. Although he does that, dude, he compliments you a lot. I think he's got a little, I think he might be, uh, I think Luke would say it himself. I think he wouldn't be mad if your nudes leaked.
00:14:48
Speaker
it They really want me to be a little fuzzy cub for him. Yeah. A little short and stout gay. You'd be such a... Dude, you would pull if you were gay. That's what's awesome. Who's Yogi's little buddy? Boo-boo. Boo-boo? I could be a boo-boo in the gay community.
00:15:08
Speaker
I did go to a nude beach once. ah Yes. I feel like we may have talked about that. and was I think we probably have. but i'm i don't I'm even struggling to recall. You went butt ass on it, huh? Yeah. ah It was in Hawaii on the big island and like you went down this like so long staircase to get down to it as a black sand beach.
00:15:32
Speaker
and i I pulled off my trunks for like a good 30 seconds just so April could take a picture of my my naked butt nice against the ah the horizon. and Why haven't we used that for one of our episode posts yet? I don't know. It's out there. I mean, it's not out there, but it does exist. I sent it to my family. I sent it to the family group chat like, Aloha.
00:16:02
Speaker
and And then like when my birthday came up the next time around, yeaha they had it printed out as a life-size cardboard cutout. I love that. Yeah. It's in my closet. Sometimes I catch April staring at it. Yeah. When you you come home, she's like, oh, I didn't think it'd be home for a little while.
00:16:27
Speaker
You're like, you're supposed to save that for me. ah Where are your fingers, Ben? They smell like cardboard. There is, me and a coworker we're talking about, ah she mentioned how like she would drive by this area with her grandmother.
00:16:43
Speaker
When she was a kid and her grandmother was always like, that's where the nudists live. And she was, you know, you just take those things in. Like you go, Oh, I guess that's true. I mean, it was true, but like she had no reason to know that as a kid.
Nudism and Public Perception
00:16:57
Speaker
And um she didn't think about it until she was like an adult and she was driving by with a friend. She goes, Oh, a bunch of that's where the nudists live.
00:17:04
Speaker
And her friend was like, what are you talking about? She's like, that's what my grandma always said. And it did turn out to be true, which is fun. Cause I didn't know they were like, I didn't, you know, I mean, I guess you don't know where they are, but I like, ah we started talking about how they've always been referred to as nudist colonies. And I just don't think we use colony for anything anymore. Like you can't, like it makes it sound like poison or like a leprosy.
00:17:32
Speaker
kind of like the leper colonies from the Bible or some shit but like where you just relegate people who do things but ah it's so funny because in in in Vermont like there isn't any there's no laws against public nudity in Vermont ah yeah Vermont's like a pervert haven yeah and well you if you're a pervert you might have a problem because it's maybe you know I wouldn't be surprised if someone shot you for being a pervert but you I mean, the the only law is that your dick can't get hard. If your dick gets hard in public, then you can, it's a sex crime, but as long as you're soft, you're good. um see you Like a cartoon ostrich, you just have to stuff it into the sand until it goes away.
00:18:18
Speaker
And it's I mean, obviously, there are a lot of places that do would be like, you can't be naked in here. Like, right. Anyone can decide that for their own establishments. Church, but in church, me who knows? But only if it's the pastor and he's doing a one on one counseling session, but.
00:18:40
Speaker
sure few of those there it's um but like publicly like the mountains and shit like you can just be naked and and just do whatever you want so like you could be walking down a trail any trail with your family and some dude could just walk by hanging dong big time just this is like a known thing like yes yes vermont like i said it was a like a pedophile haven because they don't they have like the loosest sex offender laws i don't know about that but
00:19:13
Speaker
If I get busted for doing something dirty, you have to move to either Vermont or Tel Aviv. Oops. No, I honestly don't know anything about those. ah I wouldn't i would guess I wouldn't be shocked because they live free up there, baby. There is a negative connotation to like the nudist colony.
00:19:33
Speaker
you know, colonialism and whatnot. It's like, you know, the Comanches used to be the lords of the plains out here, and you took it so that you can hang dong on the side of like a man-made reservoir full of dirty diapers. Yes. ah So you can drink like twisted teas ah next to your 1975 inboard-outboard ah honk of a turd boat.
00:20:01
Speaker
ah here your pontoon full of, uh, you know, just date rape drugs or something. I don't know. Hey, girl, you want to come out of my boat? Uh, I don't, I don't want to like.
00:20:19
Speaker
paint with a broad brush here. but like if you're if a guy like Ladies, you should never go out with a man who's under 60 and owns a pontoon boat. Nothing good can happen out there on the water. like he's a He's not to be trusted. I don't know, man. Pontoon boats are kind of sick. Red flag, red flag. ah I am a walking red flag. Are you kidding me, dude? ah I'm more worried about that.
00:20:47
Speaker
douche with like the speedboat on a lake going hard like what do you who are you trying to impress going fast for a speedboat what you can't get busy in a speedboat yeah not while it's going fast bejo Speedboats
Impractical Vehicles and Social Judgments
00:21:03
Speaker
can slow down, Casey. Well, I think that's the thing is like, ah you know, that's why you can appreciate a speedboat because when you see it zooming around, like for every second that it's zooming around the lake, that's a second where nobody's being sexually assaulted by the owner. i That's nice. And then when you don't see any boats in the lake, you should get really scared. But I feel like speedboats going fast on a lake where you can maybe do it for like
00:21:31
Speaker
30 seconds before you have to turn around I feel like I feel like it's the equivalent of just like shooting down Just shooting down a public road pretty fast with like a Dodge Charger Just like what are you doing? Like it's not a real sports car like it's pretend Yeah, it's it goes fast for a second. I like it's just not it's a it's not cool It's not a cool car at least a Dodge charger can take you to work or take your kids to school and stuff like ah a speedboat in the middle of Eldorado reservoir is Like it's it's just the it's the dumbest possible thing that you could spend 60 grand on all right I mean sure anything that drives on the road is more practical than a speedboat in a small lake but like
00:22:21
Speaker
When you look at the range of practicality when it comes to view like honestly sports cars in and of themselves ah rest in peace Jeremiah, sorry, buddy, but I I Think I've never met someone with a sports car and I know Jeremiah likes cars. He doesn't have what you would call I don't know does he have what you would qualify as a sports car? He does have a Corvette. Sorry but So here's how we all know that like we can say fun things and know that, uh, you know, maybe there's some listeners out there that's going to own one of the things that I'm about to shit on, but it's all in good fun because, uh, our friend Jeremiah has a Corvette and I was about to say that I've never met anybody with a sports car that's impressed me as a human. I've never been like, you know, that's really cool. It's super cool that you have that. And I love that you've shown me and talked about it a lot.
00:23:15
Speaker
I think it's cool if you work on it yourself. like Jeremiah works on his. He does all sorts of stuff to it on his own. He takes it and does autocross and stuff with it. like He legit uses it for like the leisurely activities you would expect of sports. like If you're going to go 45 miles an hour,
00:23:39
Speaker
just to go to the grocery store in your sports car I'm I don't think that's cool I don't I just look I'm glad you like it I just I see it and I go I I feel things instantly it I feel similar things to like like cars that give me thoughts that aren't good about the people who drive them is like lifted trucks. ah Obviously cyber trucks. We all know that like I already mentioned Dodge Chargers. Jeeps that are like so fitted that like just they're like
00:24:15
Speaker
kind of like when you dress your Jeep to the nines and it's just like a beautiful thing and not just like a prac like a fun little practical like we could do some cool shit with this I hate that too I feel some things about that um I don't know I think it's because maybe I'm just a simple man Casey and when I see extravagant things that people sink a ton of money into that are meaningless I just go what do we Maybe I'm jealous. I bet I'm a little jealous because I don't have the money to do cool shit, but. Well, I, I should have sent this to you, but I, I saw a Jeep Wrangler in my town yesterday. That was like the dumbest looking thing I've seen in a long time. You know, everybody puts the little lights on there, you know, or the to make it look like our face. ah I make it like, uh, I
00:25:07
Speaker
There is no practical reason. I see the lights where they put that little slanty thing over them so it looks like angry eyes. I hate that too. Oh yeah, that is pretty lame. Rubber ducks too, man. like The rubber duck thing, it's annoying as fuck. When you see a jeep and you're like, I don't even see a human in there, it's the dash is so covered in ducks.
00:25:32
Speaker
so this jeep not counting the factory headlights and fog lights okay it has four eight it has 10 lights on the front of it just on the front it's not like they're all the way around it has four like pod lights on each side of the windshield. It has a huge light bar across the top and then a light bar down on the like on the grill as well. Like what do you what could you possibly it looks so stupid and like they're gonna go spelunking in their cheap. I also hate when I see um when you see a snorkel on like a pristine truck.
00:26:14
Speaker
Like, bet you're not going in water anytime soon and everybody knows that. Yeah. Yeah. Because there is no way to keep something pristine if you're driving it in water that way. yeah Like, it's gonna be a ratty piece of crap if ah if water is coming up to the cab. Like, unless you live in a flood zone, I don't want to see a snorkel on your truck if it looks that good.
00:26:37
Speaker
like it's an When you have like a $90,000 truck with a snorkel, it's like what do you you're not going snorkeling in your truck. I don't know why you would bother. i mean What else do you spend your money on if you live in Florida and you don't and you can't buy flood insurance? You're saving all that money on premiums, you know buy yourself a snorkel.
00:26:59
Speaker
Put a snorkel on your house. Hey, maybe.
Reading the Book of Mormon
00:27:04
Speaker
So, um, so, okay. Well, last week we did, uh, the book of Mormon. We picked apart the, the story of, uh, Eamon and.
00:27:16
Speaker
You know, we got to talking about it afterwards and we were like, you know, we should convert to Mormonism. And so we have, and now we should really dive into the faith a little bit deeper. Isn't, wouldn't it be amazing if like this was the beginning of our Lee Strobel Mormon story? God, that would be awesome.
00:27:36
Speaker
breeding Reading the book of Nephi, we got so into it that we ended up converting and becoming like Mormon apologists. Dude, I do love that. or like when people are like When people who are devout Christians talk to people who aren't, and they're like, well, have you ever just read through the Bible? and's like That's the worst way to get somebody to believe it.
00:28:00
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's, uh, I guess that's kind of the thing with the Bible is just reading whatever you want to read out of it. Yeah, that's a huge part of it. And also with the Book of Mormon, like, I feel like I'd be, yeah, I'd be way more likely to convert if like a, a well-intentioned Mormon was able to sell it to me. Uh, but like.
00:28:21
Speaker
Then you start reading it and you go, this is not like it doesn't make, there's no reason for this book to exist. Well, maybe we just picked the wrong spot. Maybe the beginning is good. So we, we got to talking about it and we're like, you know, we've never read any of this. Maybe we should have just started at the beginning and worked our way through some of it. And, uh, that's kind of our intention for tonight. So we are, we are.
00:28:48
Speaker
doing this in real time. we Neither one of us has read this stuff. We're going to read it and just sort of see what's here, react to it. I have no idea what the first book of Nephi is about. I think what's fun about this and what I know about it so far is that I don't know what it's adding to the Bible to make it better. like The Bible's pretty big and there's a lot of ground coverage.
00:29:14
Speaker
for better or worse. And then Joseph Smith comes around and goes, I just, I think it needs to be better. I think we need more. And he he writes seemingly some of the most bizarre, it's ah it's fan fiction. It's like Christian fan fiction is what it feels like. Like, yeah, like it's not necessary to the story, but maybe it's entertaining enough for you to to gravitate towards. ah But I don't,
00:29:43
Speaker
I don't know what Joseph Smith added to Christianity that wasn't there before, that made people go, oh, this is it. Like, this works. Like, I wasn't sold before, but now that you tell me that, and maybe it bridges a gap, because look, the whole idea we we touched on a little bit last week is like Jesus comes to the United, well, to to America, to the Americas.
00:30:11
Speaker
to some extent and i I get the impulse to want to do that because I do remember asking the question Casey maybe you remember having these thoughts too I guarantee ah plenty of our listeners have there's and I remember asking my mom specifically like So after Jesus died and rose from the dead and ascended into heaven and all of the disciples and the Apostle Paul spread the good word of Jesus Christ to the ends of the earth, I was like they didn't, they couldn't cross the ocean then. Like what was happening, what was happening in America, in the Americas with the natives ah at that time and
00:30:57
Speaker
I never got a good or clear answer. I don't really remember my mom's answer, which means it probably wasn't sufficient or was shrouded in some form of, I don't know, but God's grace covers everything kind of shit. but I don't I didn't get the impression she really knew and I don't think she faked to know but I so I get like the I get why somebody could move in this direction I guess to be like it doesn't make sense like everything else got hit everything else was connected and could could have heard about Jesus after Jesus except for
00:31:33
Speaker
the Americas and then they don't have, there's no, it was gonna be hundreds and hundreds of years before anybody could have even made it from the Middle East where they would have known about or were anywhere where they could have known about Jesus and brought that good news to the Americas. Yeah, I guess we're about to find out. We are. I hope ah i hope that's where we start is with ah the story of how they got here.
00:32:02
Speaker
So this is ah where we're beginning is the first book of Nephi. It says his reign and ministry. Here we go. On account of Lehi and his wife Sariah and his four sons being called, beginning at the eldest, lame Laman, Lemuel, Sam, hey, and Nephi.
00:32:27
Speaker
The Lord warns Lehi to depart out of the land of Jerusalem because he prophesieth unto the people concerning their iniquity, and they seek to destroy his life. He taketh three days' journey into the wilderness with his family. Nephi taketh his brethren, and returneth to the land of Jerusalem after the record of the Jews." I think this is like a summary. This is a summary. i'm a My mistake. Here we go. Chapter 1, verse 1.
00:32:56
Speaker
It's set up a lot different than the regular Bible. I didn't expect her to do like a little, uh, you know, preamble. Just give us the scripture. yeah wouldn't why don't you Jesus. Why do you need commentary? Meeting commentary is weird. I take scripture at its word, the plain meaning of the text. I read it for what it is and let God speak to me. I don't need anyone else to, to give me some.
00:33:23
Speaker
overarching view and opinion. Open my open my heart to Yeshua and and let the wisdom flow in. All right, book one, chapter one. I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents. Goodly. Therefore, I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father. Somewhat. It's just like, but dude, he's off to a rough start. Yeah. I was like kind of mostly taught. mark I was taught a lot of things for my father, but not all of them.
00:33:56
Speaker
And having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days. Yeah. Yay. Am I a moron for reading Y-E-A as yay as yah? I think it's yay. Because April was like, it's yay. Yeah, it's yay. I'm like, OK. Yeah, I would have an H at the end. I also like that he, look, and I guess this is in the regular Bible too, but.
00:34:25
Speaker
ah authors of books self-proclaiming that they have the what did he say found favor in the sale of the Lord of the Lord in yeah all my days they always are yea having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days Yay, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians. And I know that the record which I make is true and I make it with my own hand and I make it according to my knowledge. This is so fucking redundant. Yeah, well, that's a recurring theme. We're seven verses in and he just repeated the same thing with different words six times.
00:35:13
Speaker
For it came to pass, in the commencement of the first year of the reign of Zedekiah, king of Judah, my father Lehi, having dwelt at Jerusalem ah in all his days, and in that same year there came many prophets, prophesying unto the people that they must repent, or the great city Jerusalem must be destroyed. Very Jonah. Is, okay, maybe I'm not thinking straight here, but are there Like even though like the Old Testament books are not written from like a first person point of view, are they? I mean, it's mostly like, and then so and so went up to such and such and he said, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, because none of those... um Are there any? That's a good question. um There's ah obviously there's sections, but overall it's written from like a third person. Yeah, for the most, because none of the but none of the books were written by the, you know, like yeah the first five books of the Bible, all about from um Adam to Moses. And those were not written by either of those parties or their families. ah They were written by God. Yeah, exactly.
00:36:26
Speaker
um So yeah, I don't, I don't think so. I don't think until you get to the New Testament, you get like that first person narrative. Those fun epistles that you love so much. I do love them. The pastoral epistles. I love them. Yeah, maybe this is an epistle of Nephi. An epistle. An epistle.
00:36:50
Speaker
Wherefore it came to pass that my father Lehi as he went forth prayed unto the Lord yea with even with all his heart in behalf of his people that sounds already sounds like a Like and you you mentioned Monty Python last week, but I'm thinking about that again cuz like I am knee-high son of Lehi who is the son of fee high like it just it Why? Knee high socks. I think of that every time. Knee highs. You're wearing a pair of knee highs. It's like, what was that movie? ah the Santa Claus is coming to town when he meets the Kringle brothers. Yeah, dude, that's it. Mingle Kringle. I'm Dingle Kringle. I'm Pringle Kringle.
00:37:37
Speaker
And it came to pass as he prayed unto the Lord, there came a pillar of fire and dwelt upon a rock before him. And he saw and heard much, and because of the things which he saw and heard, did he quake and tremble exceedingly. Dude, the pillar of fire is such copyright infringement on the book of Exodus, that better lawyer up. Yeah. What do you suppose, what kind of ah kind of divine truth do you think he shared with him?
00:38:03
Speaker
Is he about to get into it and I'm guessing, and then I'll know for sure. The Lord said from the pillar of fire, behold, the CIA killed Kennedy. The government has UFOs.
00:38:17
Speaker
And it came to pass that he returned to his own house at Jerusalem, and he cast himself upon his bed, being overcome with the spirit and the things which he had seen. yeah and yeah i What did he see? like it's Maybe it's going to tell us here in a second. some Maybe it's some fun some suspenseful buildup. They're really trying to set the stage, make us interested, get a level of buy-in.
00:38:47
Speaker
You know, the but the more eager they make you, the more likely you are to believe it when that that knowledge bomb gets dropped. Well, the author here, he does leave himself some like, uh, you know, exit clauses here and there. It says, and being thus overcome with the spirit, he was carried away in a vision, even that he saw the heavens open and he thought he saw God sitting upon his throne. so you not He thought he saw him, turned out wasn't God.
00:39:17
Speaker
I mean, what else could it have been, why? ah there' Dude, there's such a, you know, the thing that's striking me is the lack of assurance so far. It's all like, there's a lot of maybes and thinks and like, there's no, like, you know, the New Testament at least comes out swinging with some real guarantees. Yeah. Come on, Nephi, pull it together. Dude, sell me, dude.
00:39:41
Speaker
And he thought he saw God sitting upon his throne, surrounded with numberless concourses of angels in the out in the attitude of singing and praising their God. And it came to pass that he saw one descending out of the midst of heaven, and he beheld that his lustre was above that of the sun at noonday.
00:40:02
Speaker
this is so this is written so dumb it's like trying to be poetic but it's just kind of janky and is it um was it it came to pass that we talked about last week comes up all the time yeah and uh we're gonna get some of those pretty soon one of our friends in the discord mentioned that that'd be a great drinking game is just reading through it and having we had to drink every time ah the words it came to pass were uttered. And you could finish the chapter in the emergency room. And he also getting stomach pumped with a catheter up your dick.
00:40:40
Speaker
And he also saw 12 others following him and their brightness did exceed that of the stars in the firmament. Is it the apostles? Mm hmm.
00:40:51
Speaker
And they came down and went forth upon the face of the earth. And the first came and stood before my father, and gave unto him a book, and bade him that he should read. And it came to pass that as he read, he was filled with the Spirit of the Lord. And hear at and he read, saying, Woe, woe unto Jerusalem, for I have seen thine abominations, yea, and many things did my father read concerning Jerusalem, that it should be destroyed,
00:41:20
Speaker
And the inhabitants thereof, many should perish by the sword, and many should be carried away captive into Babylon." So he's putting himself way back before the Babylonian captivity. I mean, it's hard to know. what I mean, it seems it, but I don't really... There's no enunciation of timeline here. No. Well, so-and-so was king, right? ah Zedekiah was king of Jerusalem.
00:41:47
Speaker
Zenekaya sounds like every other king who came before him. I mean i dont i don't i don't ah feel like the king names were all kind of in that vein. Yeah, very similar.
00:41:59
Speaker
And it came to pass that when my father had read and seen many great and marvelous things, he did exclaim many things unto the Lord, such as, Great and marvelous by there are thy works, O Lord God Almighty. Thy throne is high in the heavens, and thy power and goodness and mercy are over all the inhabitants of the earth. And because thou art merciful, thou wilt not suffer those who come unto thee that they shall perish." It is funny to like roll out this big red carpet show him a vision of just like absolute horrors, just the conquest of a civilization and every like, that's an easy thing to glaze over when you're reading like an old book like this. But by conquering a city was a vile, horrible thing. That was just
00:42:49
Speaker
just pain and suffering for everyone involved. Yeah, it would it it was like all like the worst parts of war that we see today. ah And not like major war, like not' not talking World War II kind of major war, but like it's What are the words I'm going for? like when you're it It's like ah displacement, relocation, interbreeding with people. like It's literally like so much of war then was trying to like eradicate the existence of a of a culture. So it was like you would take the women and basically impregnate them and make them lose, like and then you would raise the children. The whole idea was to wipe, not just like take over an area, but also to assimilate their culture into yours, to wipe it out completely. ah it It was so brutal and vile. Slaves, taking slaves from the population was like a huge part of it. That's the plunder part of it. you know It's not like most average people had anything worth like carrying home to you know
00:44:02
Speaker
whatever city you're from, like human capital is what was what they were after most of the time, you know? And if you were too old, too sick, too weak to be of use, then they cut your head off. Put your head on a pike.
00:44:17
Speaker
The Mongols, like when they conquered certain cities, they, so they would kind of like, they would kind of offer a wager. It's like, Hey, if before we get there, if you surrender the city, lower your gates, you let us in before we set up our siege engines and stuff, then we'll let you live.
00:44:36
Speaker
And that's a loaded term because letting you live might also mean horrible slavery and stuff
Historical Brutality and Religious Texts
00:44:41
Speaker
like that. But if you don't, we're going to wipe you out. And so they would like systematically kill like everybody in a given city. And it would be like they'd have this huge force of soldiers and they would be like, all right, everyone owes me 16 years And you would have to kill somebody and cut off their ears and then bring them to be counted, you know, so they could tally up the totals and stuff like that. That level of brutality, dude. Can you imagine? Like I can't, I've never been in a fist fight. Me neither, but I do feel like I'd be good at it. I i just, the idea of like,
00:45:22
Speaker
of killing somebody and then sliding your sword through their ear while they just bled everywhere and you just put it in your pocket like dude the level of brutality was off the charts and was it the Mongols that they were fighting against in Disney's Mulan?
00:45:41
Speaker
I think so, yeah and they yeah. They are the historic big bad of you know Asia. If you're Chinese or Japanese, like the Mongols were not your favorite people.
00:45:52
Speaker
or Korean or I guess anybody else. And it's funny because, well, they the way they animated them was notable. ah But it's it's funny to make a Disney movie about one of them like the most ah horrifically brutal and violent people to ever like just wipe out populations. And you're like, hey, let's make a little Disney movie about a little talking red dragon and it'll be cute.
00:46:19
Speaker
It is funny how like when you think about I was thinking about this the other day about how you think of like all of the movies that have been like large scale popular over the past like 25 years and almost 100% of them center around fighting like like all the Marvel movies all that you know Oh, yeah, like good maybe that's a little high the percentage wise, but like so much of it centers around like fighting something or somebody or some force or whatever, you know, it's like it's all like violent conflict oriented.
00:46:53
Speaker
I'm not trying to be like a Pearl clutching like, o you know, whatever. It's fine, but like a little Libcock now, man, we can't fight. We use our words. nonviolent reason our words Yeah.
00:47:10
Speaker
yeah Little Libcock. Okay. So, uh, where did we stop off? You're a big downward Luigi guy, aren't you?
00:47:22
Speaker
I'm just, you know, I'm shocked and saddened by the violence. Yeah. That's always been something that triggers you. I watched a clip today of Bill Burr on, it was on Jimmy Kimmel the other night this week. I don't know.
00:47:39
Speaker
You know, and he he he just ah at one point just yelled free Luigi and I thought it was so funny. good Because, you know, it's like late night, like that's not late nights, not edgy at all. It used to be. Isn't it funny that like late night used to be like a a more edgier comedy because it was, you know, when children were in bed.
00:48:04
Speaker
and now i feel like late night is it's pretty subdued it's pretty tame you're not pushing the envelope everything's still censored and bill burr comes out and every other word is just bleeped out because bill burr refuses to like i don't even know if he has the ability to censor himself at this point um and And somehow he started talking about Luigi. He's like, how funny he thought it was that people acted surprised about the whole thing. And then yelled free Luigi, but every other word was bleep. I just loved it. I loved because Jimmy Kimmel, I feel like didn't try to listening to him try to interview Bill as Bill just keeps running off. Just go. He just, you know, how Bill is he just has something to say. He just stream of consciousness goes off.
00:48:51
Speaker
and you know something about the wildfires came up this or that and he keeps trying to interject and be like oh what's it like uh how is it like do your kids have an idea of what's going on like he keeps trying to do like these bullshit interview questions that were not You're not soliciting anything good out of him. Bill always delivers. Everything he says was great. But I was like, whenever you watch him on like these late night things, I feel like, or any sort of like public access cable, like
00:49:23
Speaker
He spikes the ball every time. He does, and people don't know what to do with him every fucking time. They keep having him on. It's like, uh, Sam Morrell, like, if you ever watch his interviews. He was on a morning show circuit, and he would fuck with them so bad.
00:49:39
Speaker
My favorite one was where he was like in a hotel room and he joined a morning show and he's like, Hey, I just want to start off by addressing the rumors that I absolutely do not have a gimp sex slave in the other room. I know a lot of people have been talking about that and I just want to squash that rumor right now. And then he has like a dude inch out from the room who's like tied up and in a gimp suit. And he's just like, like a little inch worm coming out from the corner. He's like, Oh, ignore that guy. I don't.
00:50:08
Speaker
And he's like gets all like pretends to be awkward and like flustered about it in the morning program. They have no idea what to do with it. Like, huh. Okay. Well, you, uh, you're going to be touring, uh, the city, huh? And he's like, yeah Oh my God, so good.
00:50:23
Speaker
i love I love when people fuck with morning shows because there's such a wholesomeness to morning shows and Sam Morrell did it for like probably seven or eight in a row and yeah there was an interview with him about it and he was like, yeah, I don't know. He's like, they keep asking me on. He's like, I keep wondering if they've seen the other morning shows I've done.
00:50:45
Speaker
and I'm blown away that I keep getting these invites, so I just keep trying to escalate each one to make it more and more like awkward and uncomfortable. It was really fantastic. Jimmy Kimmel could host like a ah you know weekday morning news show. He is like so bland. He's like meta-built like an automaton and then uploaded the consciousness of Clippy from Microsoft Word.
00:51:13
Speaker
Jimmy Kimmel is like Clippy but boring. yeah It's like the DNA strand from Jurassic Park. Hang on, did I lose you? You might have. or there we go I think I bumped my volume. Clippy is like the DNA strand from Jurassic Park.
00:51:34
Speaker
yeah That animated one. Alright. And after this manner was the language of my father in the praising of his God. Let's just read that sentence again. Yeah, yeah I was gonna ask of you two. And after this manner was the language of my father in the praising of his God for his soul did rejoice and his whole heart was filled.
00:52:00
Speaker
That would be a great to just use up like an entire so you know portion of your body with redundant Mormonism phrase. I'm going to do my whole back with just the the best phrases from the Book of Mormon.
00:52:17
Speaker
For his soul did rejoice and his whole heart was filled because of the things which he had seen, yea, which the Lord had shown unto him. This has the feel of like a college student trying to meet that like 800 word count. He's like, yeah, he finishes the paper. He he has 600 words. He needs 800. And he's like, all right, let's just go back, start from the beginning and spice it up a bit. It sounds like a guy pretending to read a tablet in his hat.
00:52:50
Speaker
And now I, Nephi, do not make a full account of the things which my father hath written, for he hath written many things which he saw in visions and in dreams, and he ah and he also hath written many things which he prophesied, and spake unto his children, of which I shall not make a full account." So this that's like, ah you don't even know the half of it, brother.
00:53:13
Speaker
But I shall make an account of my proceedings in my days. Behold, I make an abridgment of the record of my father upon plates, which I have made with mine own hands. Wherefore, after I have abridged the record of my father, then will I make an account of mine own life." Joseph Smith explaining his nonsense to the guy copying it down on paper. Okay, I'm already confused because When we shift to first person, that's Joseph Smith. No, this is this is supposedly Nephi that is writing this. Oh, oh, oh, that's right. this is He's writing it on the golden plates and Joseph Smith finds those golden plates. Gotcha. Yes.
00:54:00
Speaker
Which you think this could be a good, I know self i know the South Park creators already did the Book of Mormon. So that might be a little redundant. I was just thinking about how this would play out narratively in like a TV, like a Netflix original series. You know, like I don't, you couldn't make this a drama and try your absolute fucking hardest to make this watchable.
00:54:22
Speaker
Oh, there's, there's lots of live action reenactments of it on YouTube. Oh God. Okay. And are they, they put some work into the videos. but then they got to ah they all Are they all wearing like white shirts with black ties?
00:54:39
Speaker
They have some, uh, very interesting, like, uh, faux native American dress, you know? Oh God. Borderline racist or just racist? It's funny, like, you know, the governor of Tennessee and like, you know, 40 BC was like, looked like a Middle Eastern guy in terms of dress.
00:55:00
Speaker
Oh, I thought you meant for real. i You know, old-timey people just wore tunics. It doesn't really matter where you're talking about. I know. Dude, we used to all just wear dresses. Can you imagine a time where you didn't have to think? Can you imagine a time where you really didn't have to think about what you would wear every day? It's kind of nice. Granted, I don't. I have three pairs of pants that I wear. I mean,
00:55:24
Speaker
All of my dresses would be way too long and I'd have to like trip over them all day or hold them up. If it was raining, they'd just get like all soaked. You can get him hemmed, but as long as you don't accidentally show it. That's what was tough, dude. Like at a time where clothing wasn't readily available and it was illegal to show your ankles.
00:55:48
Speaker
You're like, it's a little too long. Let's fix it. You're like, oh shit, it's too short. I'm fucked. Like it, there's no in between. Like you gotta to be real careful. Yep. I have to take my too long tunic to old timey April and ever cut it off. the knees I want, I,
00:56:06
Speaker
I want to learn to hem things. I want to learn to sew a little bit because every once in a while you get that pair of pants and you're like, I really like this, but it doesn't fit quite right. I wish I knew how to tailor it a little bit. It doesn't seem that complicated, but it must be a little challenging because that's still a business. Being a tailor is still a business. Yeah.
00:56:28
Speaker
which means there's just not a lot of regular people knowing how to do that shit but yeah April hymns every pair of pants that I have can I mail you a pair of pants with some measurements like marked in sharpie on how I want that shit cut dude I just want I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure that she ah that she hymns one like a half inch too long I was really hoping to expand the crotch a bit, you know what I mean? Sure, sure. That's why we're pleated khakis. All right, so ah so he's making an account of his life and an abridged account of his father's life. Are we through chapter one? Yep.
00:57:12
Speaker
Therefore I would that ye should know that after the Lord had shown so many marvelous things unto my father Lehi. So many, but we won't hear of any of them. They will not be mentioned. We will just be told there are many. there's So many marvelous things concerning the destruction of Jerusalem.
00:57:31
Speaker
Behold, he went forth among the people and began to prophesy and and to declare unto them concerning the things which he had both seen and heard. He really is a modern day Jonah. Modern for the time, of course. Here's where you can see some 1800s mindset leaking in.
00:57:50
Speaker
Yeah. And it came to pass that the Jews did mock him because of the things which he testified of them, for he truly testified of their wickedness and their abominations. And he testified that the things which he has saw and heard and also the things which he read in the book manifested plainly of the coming of a Messiah and also the redemption of the world.
00:58:14
Speaker
and when the Jews heard these things, they were angry with him. Yay, even as with the prophets of old, whom they had cast out and stoned and slain, and they also sought his life, that they might take it away. But behold, I, Nephi, will show unto you the tender mercies of the Lord are over all those whom he hath chosen, because of their faith and to make them mighty.
00:58:42
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a it's got that real sharp anti-Semitic 1800s garbage. there like I understand some of the criticisms that people have about the New Testament and how it can come off.
00:59:01
Speaker
vaguely anti-semitic I don't think that some of those criticisms are as ah blatant as ah some people want to make them out to be but there's some concerning areas at times for sure and the Book of Mormon just kind of bitch slapped all those and made it way worse so that's cool just chapter one dude we like we dove headfirst into the shallow end of a pool on anti-semitism with that with chapter one of the book of Mormon. Maybe there's a turn in here and it becomes a, you know, they, they have like a free Palestine section. I, I don't expect to see that, but I'm crossing my fingers. They're all very concerned about antisemitism. The only one who wants to free Palestine is Donald Trump. All right. That's right.
00:59:54
Speaker
Okay. So chapter two, whoa. So what's happened? Let's recap real quick. Uh, so Nephi's father, Lehi, uh, God appeared to him in a pillar of fire and, uh, spoke a bunch of amazing things to him. And then he had a vision about.
01:00:19
Speaker
Jerusalem being destroyed because of their wickedness so he goes and tries to tell the Jews but they're so wicked they're so wicked and vile that they try to kill him do we have a time like the king that was mentioned I'm assuming fits into a time who was the king who was the king at this time I want to find a timeline for this i was it said zedechi and as i am mezekiah um where is it where is it where is
01:00:51
Speaker
zedekiah z e d e k i a Oh, I typed it in. The first thing that came up was king of Judah. So that's really helpful. That means it's at least real.
01:01:02
Speaker
Wikipedia. I see Nebuchadnezzar somewhere listed here. Zedekiah was the 20th and final king of Judah. Judah was um the tribe of Judah. that was Is that what Israel was broken up into when Israel was like two kingdoms?
01:01:21
Speaker
Yeah, it was Judah and I think that's what it was. Um, yeah, because right before, uh, yeah. Okay. Before the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar to the second of Babylon. Um, after the siege of Jerusalem in 597 BC, Nebuchadnezzar the second deposed King Jekoniah. Okay.
01:01:47
Speaker
easy guys you don't gotta to keep doing this and installed his uncle matinyahu interesting oh very cool uh changing that changing his name to zetticaia okay so yeah after the siege of jerusalem 597 BC Nebuchadnezzar the second to post king Jekaniah and installed his uncle. Now, is his uncle Jek and I his uncle or Nebuchadnezzar's uncle? And I don't appreciate the way they use pronouns in this Wikipedia article. Hmm. It's anybody's guess. It sounds like. But around 597 BC. Gotcha. Chapter two.
01:02:31
Speaker
For behold, it came to pass that the Lord spake unto my father, yea, even in a dream, and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Lehi. I had to stop for a second and make sure that I didn't just start rereading chapter one again. But no, this is chapter two.
01:02:49
Speaker
Blessed art thou, Lehi, because of the things which thou hast done, and because thou hast been faithful, and declared unto this people the things which I commanded thee. Behold, they seek to take away thy life." Poor Lehi, he's so persecuted. It's just not fair. No. He was good and faithful. he That one time he ranted about how everybody was bad and that God was going to kill them all. Apparently they didn't like it. I don't know.
01:03:18
Speaker
It's weird after, you know, hundreds and hundreds of years, people still don't respond well to that messaging. It's almost like right those people haven't learned anything about general human psychology.
01:03:34
Speaker
It is funny how like you read Bible stories where they're like, so and so preach the word of the Lord and everybody was sick of listening to him. And it's like, it's alert because as a kid or whatever, you hear those stories and you're like, man, those foolish people. Why didn't they just listen? And it's like you put yourself in that scenario. You're like, some lunatic is just raving about how you're all going to be like,
01:04:00
Speaker
burned by God you'd be like dude shut up and then you have the book of Jonah where he's like God's like you need to go tell the Ninevites that they're they're all gonna die because of their wickedness and he's like I'm not doing that shit and he fucks off until he goes through some shit and then he's like, fine, God damn it, I'll do it. And then he says all those words and the entire nation changes their ways and their heart. And that those stories are the ones that I remember as a kid, because, you know, you don't want to focus too much on all the all the losses, you know, you just focus on the big wins that you get every once in a while.
01:04:46
Speaker
And I'm sure there's a lot of proof in the historical record that the, the Assyrians had like a big come to Jesus moment where they were all nice and good. No, also not to get too in the weeds here, but I do actually really liked the book of Jonah because it's a repainting of a version of God that was unusual because it was written after the Assyrians were no longer and like in power really it was like it was like a rewriting of it was like a rewritten narrative of history to paint God in a light of a like a forgiving and merciful God ah and a God that changes their mind which is also fun because Jonah's original
01:05:35
Speaker
i His original quest was to just tell them that their wickedness is going to get them killed. You're all going to die. and then But what's funny is like where we were all we all grew up with this idea of God doesn't change their mind. God knows from beginning to end what's going to happen and God does this and that and never changes their mind. And then the whole book of Jonah is God tells Jonah to tell them that God's going to kill them all for their wickedness. And then Jonah tells God, I didn't want to talk to them and tell them that because I hate them so much. And I know that you're a merciful God and that you would forgive them if they repented. And I fucking hate that. And then and then God's like, you got me. And then he just kind of fucks up like kind of God kind of fucks off with ah Jonah.
01:06:28
Speaker
gives them a little shade and then kills the tree and is like now stop crying and being a little bitch and then the book ends with Jonah being a little bitch it's a really cool story that when it was written about the time it was written is well after the series i don't know it's kind of cool i actually really like that book i think it's an ah an interesting narrative it's it's ah It's obviously and clearly poetic in a lot of ways like even the I I listened to a I listened to someone recently talk about this book and Jonah going down into like the the fishes like goes into the fish and the fish goes down into the sea there was he this guy talked about um
01:07:13
Speaker
the symbolism of going up versus going down like within biblical narratives there's the idea of going up to such and such city even though that city is south and that's simply because the concept of going up is getting closer to god and going down is getting further away from god so narratively it has nothing to do with um geography. It's just about an idea of closeness and like nearness or far, farness from God. And Jonah's going down is like, Oh, I'm not going to talk to these people about this. So it's getting farther. Oh, I think, I think people in the South refer to every soda as a Coke. Yes, exactly. And exactly. ah No, the South isn't the South pop.
01:08:02
Speaker
No, you're right. We don't say pop,
Different Views of God
01:08:05
Speaker
but you're right. They go, I'll have what? They say an orange Coke. Hold up. I'm blending things out. It's been a while since I lived in the South. That's crazy. I forgot about that, but now I'm recalling. Yeah. A lot of stuff was Coke. Can I get a Pepsi Coke?
01:08:23
Speaker
A Mountain Dew Coke. I don't know. I'm trying to think of how it's used. but yeah anyway interchangeably with soda regardless uh it's it is i don't know how i got here but i do think the book of jonah is a very interesting book i think it's one of the more interesting books we should do that at some point we haven't done the book of jonah Have we not? I don't think so. Maybe not. i've It's come up a bit ah here and there, and i've I've expressed my interest in appreciation for it in little tidbits over the years. But I think narratively, just like this the the idea of like it the the story that it's communicating, I think it's really interesting. and i think
01:09:09
Speaker
i Think it's a huge 180 from what you get for most of the Old Testament um Excuse me the Hebrew Bible and that I Think it's fun. I think it's a cool I love I think it's a little bit of a wrench in the works for the story of God and then you have this one that is like really doesn't make sense I actually taught about this back when I was like I That in a ah church that had more that was more established, there were a couple times that i I remember mentioning this at the very start of the podcast. It's been a very long time since I've talked about it. um But I taught at my church a couple of times.
01:09:52
Speaker
And one of the times I did it was it was with the intent of talking about the the silliness of looking at the Bible with this idea of I read what what's the what's the phrase that I heard it at Liberty all the time. It was like ah God said it. well Do you remember this? God said it. I believe it.
01:10:16
Speaker
That's the end of the, I don't know, something like that. It was just something real simple. like I read it the way that I read it and I'm gonna believe it as it was written without really any nuance. Anyway, um but to i the reason I taught on it was because I think it's one of like the best examples of why biblical inerrancy is the most ridiculous concept. um I don't know if it went over great,
01:10:42
Speaker
I had a couple people tell me they liked it. um But the i i think it's I think it's like when you look at the entire like Hebrew Bible, life I really think that Jonah is one of the most like, gotcha books where it really switches things up. And the fact that it was added in ah to the canon, I think is really cool. I think it portrays God, I think it just like takes a little detour and portrays God in a way different light than any of the other books do. Hmm. Well, maybe the Book of Mormon will too. I'm not so sure, but we'll see.
01:11:21
Speaker
And it came to pass that the Lord commanded my father, even in a dream, that he should take his family and depart into the wilderness. And it came, so he stirred up a bunch of trouble for himself and conveniently God's like, yeah maybe good maybe go camping. Yeah. That's a great, maybe and that's, and that is how the nudist colonies in Vermont started. Dude, you are going to go wild here. yeah just I'm just reading ahead slightly. Here we go. And it came to pass.
01:11:57
Speaker
that he was obedient unto the word of the Lord, wherefore he did as the Lord commanded him. And it came to pass that he departed into the wilderness, and he left his house, and the land of his inheritance, and his gold, and his silver, and his precious things, and took nothing with him, save it were his family, and provisions, and tents, and departed into the wilderness." I like how they talk about that all virtuously.
01:12:21
Speaker
Like he can spend gold in the woods. Oh, cool. You left all that behind. What are you going to do with it in the middle of nowhere, you bitch?
01:12:31
Speaker
Yeah. And for real, like how much gold did he have? A couple shackles maybe. Yeah. Like what was it? Was it, did he have two, uh, breaks trucks full of like gold change?
01:12:43
Speaker
that he was gonna have to haul around in a wheelbarrow. Something tells me it wasn't that big of a deal. and it And he came down by the borders near the shore of the Red Sea, and he traveled in the wilderness in the borders, which are nearer the Red Sea. And he did travel in the wilderness with his family, which consisted of my mother, Sariah, and my elder brothers, who were Laman, Lemuel, and Sam.
01:13:12
Speaker
I know which one's my least favorite. Lemuel. I hate that because it's like Samuel is a very biblical name. There's never been a Sam in the Bible. Not once. There's Samuel. And instead they go, we'll just steal the end of Samuel's last name and make it Lemuel. And then we're going to have a Sam. This book is fucked right by chapter two. It's true.
01:13:38
Speaker
It is fun to have just like one absurdly simple name in there after like, you know, and then Hezekiah and Mordecai and Pete and Brad and then Brad shows up. And it came to pass that when he had traveled three days in the wilderness, he pitched his tent in a valley by the side of a river of water. There's no chance that somebody has not summed up all of the it came to passes in the Book of Mormon.
01:14:08
Speaker
Yeah, there's gotta be a... I'm googling it now. ...count on those. He only walked for three days before he decided to, like, pitch his tent. That doesn't seem like exile. And it came to pass that he built an altar of stones and made an offering.
01:14:23
Speaker
yeah to the lord it was like three searches down when i started typing it the ai overview we'll see i don't it's not always a fact because we know how ai is but the phrase it came to pass appears approximately 1353 times in the book of mormon oh my god there's so many ah Dude, I hate you Joseph Smith. Every time, I've ever been in church and hearing things like, do you know how many times the word grace appears in the Bible? 486 times. Do you know how many times the word whatever, the opposite of grace, something negative appears in the Bible? 100 times. That shows you how much more God has grace than he has punishment or whatever.
01:15:15
Speaker
And that is exactly what we can concur from those two facts. they Literally, literally nothing in my experience in Christianity and evangelical Christianity especially was like nothing came close to being mentioned over 1300 times in the Bible.
01:15:32
Speaker
no
01:15:36
Speaker
That's crazy. yeah but It came to pass as four words. One, two, three, four. So four times 1353. I'm going to look that up because I want to know how many four times 1353. It is 5,421 words. And I want to know how many pages that is in like a word document. That's a bunch.
01:16:04
Speaker
it is dang that didn't google didn't help me out as quickly as i thought i would all right we gotta to make some time here yeah yeah let's get to this oh where the heck did we leave are okay And it came to pass that he built an altar of stones and made an offering unto the Lord, and gave thanks unto the Lord our God. And it came to pass that he called the name of the river, Laman, and it emptied into the Red Sea, and the valley was in the borders near the mouth thereof.
01:16:37
Speaker
And when my father saw that the waters of the river emptied into the fountain of the Red Sea, he spake unto Laman, saying, O that thou mightest be like unto this river continually running into the fountain of all righteousness. And he also spake unto Lemuel, O that thou mightest be like unto this valley, firm and steadfast and immovable in keeping the commandments of the Lord.
01:17:03
Speaker
Now this he spake because of the stiff-neckedness, the stiff-neckedness of Laman and Lemuel. For behold, they did murmur in many things against their father because he was a visionary man, and he had led them out of the land of Jerusalem to leave the land of their inheritance and their gold and their silver and their precious things to perish in the wilderness.
01:17:29
Speaker
and this they said he had done because of the foolish imaginations of his art." I mean yeah the Book of Mormon is an entirely foolish imagination so that's cool. It also turns out that the amount of times it came to pass in the appears in the Book of Mormon equals just shy of 11 singles eleven single-spaced pages in a word doc times new roman yeah i'm gonna go with times new mul maybe calibri calibri's the the new standard calibri 11 point font that might be a grandson what might wait say behold my son calibri and unto this uh tree stump
01:18:15
Speaker
So, we have about 11 pages of ah of Time's New Roman 12-point font, and it came to pass in the Book of Mormon. That's a bunch. So, Laman and Lemuel, not Papa's favorite sons, and ah that seems awfully convenient for the author, being that he was one of the chosen ones. It's weird how things turn out very convenient for the authors, often.
01:18:46
Speaker
And thus, Laman and Lemuel, being the eldest, did murmur against their father, and they did murmur because they knew not the dealings of that God who had created them. Neither did they believe that Jerusalem, that great city, could be destroyed according to the words of the prophets. And they were like unto the Jews who were at Jerusalem, who sought to take away the life of my father.
01:19:10
Speaker
Boy, he's la he blames all of the Jews for wanting to kill his dad. Yeah, and just hates his brothers. this they're the They're just as bad. Is this written by Kanye? My wicked brothers were just as wicked as all those Jews.
01:19:32
Speaker
And it came to pass that my father did week did speak unto them in the Valley of Lemuel death with power. being filled with the spirit until their frames did shake before him. And he did confound them, that they durst not utter against him, prayer for it, to as he commanded them. So he yelled at them until they were having panic attacks, I guess. okay And they did as he commanded them.
01:20:04
Speaker
So then they listened. And my father dwelt in a tent. That's verse 15, by the way. And my father dwelt in a tent. That's my next Mormon tattoo. And it came to pass that I, Nephi, sure being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature and also having great desires to know the mysteries of God, wherefore I did cry unto the Lord and behold, he did visit me.
01:20:33
Speaker
and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father, wherefore I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers." What a conceited verse that was. Like and like my brothers did. I was a good boy. I was young, but I was also a big and surly. But, you know, I was much more concerned with holy things than my dirty brothers. I was a good boy, unlike my bad, bad brothers. My bad step-brother.
01:21:06
Speaker
I wonder if this is like, ah I wonder if Joseph Smith had like a couple of brothers that he just despised. Oh my God. and end of the story actually That is such a good idea. we We should really learn more about Joseph Smith. Like how much of his autobiography is in this? How much projection is the Book of Mormon? There there has to be tons. and So much. Oh, a psychological deep dive into the the the mind of Joseph Smith. I wonder if other people have done that.
01:21:35
Speaker
Oh yeah, there has to be a criminal profile out there somewhere. Because he definitely had sex with underage women, is that what you mean?
Religious Leaders and Historical Context
01:21:44
Speaker
I think he actually- I think it's almost guaranteed, with the exception of Jesus Christ, if you start a religion, you fucked a child.
01:21:53
Speaker
it's kind of a prerequisite yeah it's unfortunately true and i like that i do like i think that's one of the most endearing things about christianity is that like there's no record of jesus doing that but every other religion their thought leader definitely had sex with a 12 year old that's one of the cooler things about jesus yeah it's crazy that the bar is that low too
01:22:20
Speaker
You think whoever founded the Jedi Order will mess with somebody? A youngling you mean?
01:22:35
Speaker
ah Oh my god. Woo!
01:22:43
Speaker
And I spake unto Sam, which Sam hasn't come up much yet, so let's see what kind of a character Sam is. yeah let's say good or r Is he a bad apple? And I spake unto Sam, making known unto him the things which the Lord had manifested unto me by his Holy Spirit. And it came to pass that he believed in my words,
01:23:05
Speaker
But behold, Laman and Lemuel would not harken unto my words. And being griefed because of the hardness of their hearts, I cried unto the Lord for them. And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto me, saying, blessed art thou, Nephi, because of thy faith, for thou has sought me diligently with lowliness of heart. And in as much as ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall prosper and shall be led to a land of promise, yea, even a land which I have prepared for you, yea, a land which is choice above all other lands.
01:23:41
Speaker
And inasmuch as thy brethren shall rebel against thee, they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And inasmuch as thou shalt keep my commandments, thou shalt be made a ruler and a teacher over thy brethren. For behold, in that- I love this. I love this narrative because it says, if you don't listen to me, you're going to be a like a bitch-ass pussy and you're going to do nothing. You're going to be nothing.
01:24:08
Speaker
But if you obey me, you will be a ruler, you will rule everyone. It is, it just feels like that typical like abuser relationship of like oh babe we'll do everything together we're gonna be so powerful we're gonna do so much together like the world can't even stop they don't even understand they don't even understand our love and like how powerful it is and like what it means it is it is just like the most quid pro quo religion like just do the things I say and you will have power it's very Donald Trump really oh you like oh yeah just like do the things I say and you're gonna be my best friend and you will have all the power and if you don't you're gonna be worthless scum that I'm gonna stop under my heel and behold if thou wilt not stop the steel
01:24:58
Speaker
Then I shallest repost Jeffrey Sachs chewing you up on the truth of an interview. The truth is truth f of socials.
01:25:09
Speaker
And it came to pass that I did truth diligently about my brethren, Netanyahu and his wicked ways. I'm truthing. I'm truthing.
01:25:21
Speaker
For behold, in that day thou that they shall rebel against me, I will curse them, even with a sore curse, and they shall have no power over thy seed, except they shall rebel against me also. And if it so be that they rebel against me, they shall be a scourge unto thy seed, to stir them up in the ways of remembrance.
01:25:45
Speaker
So I feel like we're seeing the ah the precursor to the laminates, right? They're the bad ones. They were the bad ones. The laminates. The laminates? The laminates. It's so dumb. Let's book fucking socks, dude. It's really bad. I do love this part, though. this is like This is by far my favorite thing that we've read so far because it is so conceited. It's like my brothers were a bunch of jerks. They didn't listen to my dad, and then when God chose me because
01:26:22
Speaker
I was holy and I sought him and I'm big in stature. I'm a, I'm not a small man. I'm a, I'm, I'm big and burly. A lot of women say. I'm big and girthy man. I'm so girthy. And my stupid brothers who are weak and lame didn't listen to me either. And so, you know, God cursed them and I also have sad for them.
01:26:44
Speaker
This is like Joseph and the Code of Many Colors vibes too. like I feel like all of this is just ripped from other stories in the Bible. It makes like that's ah this big like like psychotic amalgamation of like Joseph Smith's projections. That's all that this is.
01:27:02
Speaker
Yeah. So he didn't have any brothers. He had sisters. Oh. Maybe he hated them too. He probably hates women and I'm sure that'll come up later. Okay. So this is what I see immediately on josephsmithjr.org. Josephsmithjr.org is a website.
01:27:21
Speaker
When Joseph Smith obtained the plates in 1827, his older sister, Sophronia, there's a name I've never seen before. That's an interesting one. Sophronia was 24 and his younger sisters, Catherine and Lucy, 14 and six, all three joined the church of Jesus Christ and proved their sincerity through sacrifices and persecution, though none came West.
01:27:48
Speaker
Oh, there's an interesting thing. They didn't get on the boat. They were all good and listened to Joseph and they were ah diligent and sought his, uh, you know, the Lord, but they also didn't follow him West to the sun's scorched deserts of, of Utah, which that didn't happen until after he was dead, but, uh, Missouri.
01:28:10
Speaker
Wait, wait, wait. What didn't happen until after he was dead? I don't think, I think, I don't think that Joseph Smith made it any further west than like Missouri or, I think he was killed in Missouri or Illinois. I can't remember. Really? I didn't even know he was killed. Oh yeah. He was, he was murdered. By? Um, I don't know. Uh, Mario Linguini the first. I didn't know, I didn't know if it was someone who had like a,
01:28:40
Speaker
ah Vendetta against him? Who killed Joseph? There was a lot of angry people out after them. They had like open hunting season on Mormons for a while. like It was not a mob. Oh, on my wedding anniversary date. That's so cute. ah Was killed by a mob on June 27th. What were they angry about, does it say? His brother Hiram.
01:29:06
Speaker
was also killed in the attack um killing of Joseph Smith that was like the AI thing so just as if ah they were killed by a mob in Carthage Illinois while awaiting trial in the town jail on charges of treason What are the chances that Carthage, Illinois is a nice town? Also, what are the chances that treason just didn't mean things we didn't like back in 1844? Oh, that's absolutely what it meant. ah treesson is I think they thought a lot of people had treasonous skin color.
01:29:48
Speaker
the then the navu that sounds like star wars the navu ex visit or newspaper was newly established by anti polygamist ex mormons who had recently been excommunicated from the church of jesus christ of laturday saints the newspapers first and only issue criticized smith and other church leaders correctly reporting that Smith was practicing polygamy, marrying the wives of other men, teaching a plurality of gods, and alleging that he intended to set himself up as a theocratic king. After a vote of the Nauvoo City Council, Mayor Joseph Smith ordered the Expositors' Press destroyed. Mayor Joseph Smith? What the fuck? Were there a lot of Joseph Smiths at the time?
01:30:41
Speaker
I'm sure there was probably... I'm sure there was the most generic ass name in America that you could possibly have. You think when the Naboo
Critique of Literalism and Narrative
01:30:49
Speaker
City Council gets together, they like take out their braids and wrap them around each other like avatars? They go... They go... I tried well is i thought of the... In Star Wars Episode I, the king of the Naboo.
01:31:08
Speaker
what He's like, I don't even know what he says, but he's like, Boss Nass? Yeah, he goes... We son of a... a Naboo. Then he goes... um like Here go.
01:31:27
Speaker
Yours I cannot be is here. And the only reason you're not getting canceled right now is because you did a Naboo accent and not a Jamaican one. And right, right.
01:31:40
Speaker
that You sir listen well Joseph Smith you sir cannot stop in Carthage, Illinois Remember when I was like nine when that came out and I saw that scene and I was just life my thought was like what the fuck is this I I asked my dad, my dad brought my brother and I to the theater to see Star Wars episode one. And I remember asking him about it. I was like, why did he do that? And my dad's like, I have no fucking clue, dude. Like this is, this this movie's beyond the pale. Like not none of it matters. It makes no sense. And I can't explain any of it to you, even though it's a movie for children. And I'm a 40 year old man. Hmm. Strongly disagree.
01:32:34
Speaker
dude I think it's one of the best ones. It's the worst take you've ever had in the past four years of us doing this podcast. The worst take. I love the prequels. When was the last time you watched it, dude? Recently. No way. Like four months ago. No. Fuck you, because that movie is the Book of Mormon of Star Wars films. No. It's the Septuagint, brother.
01:33:00
Speaker
yeah This Septuagint is the Greek translation of the Old Testament, but you didn't know that, you little fucking bitch. Dang. I mixed up my old timey words. yeah
01:33:15
Speaker
Oh my god. We're done with chapter two. We should close it. We are. We're done with chapter two. Oh, we finished it? That was a strong finish. It's a lot like my finishes lately. You barely knew what happened. It's been going hard.
01:33:30
Speaker
Didn't come quite fast enough.
01:33:36
Speaker
It seemed ah needlessly drawn out. yeah You keep describing me lately. Like someone's stalling. yeah Oh, man. Yes, okay, so ah we morbis now let's summarize. So, Nehi was the papa, and no, no, no, Lehi was the was the dad. He sees God in a pillar of fire, has a vision that Jerusalem's gonna be destroyed, goes and tries to warn the that wicked Jews, and they say, we're gonna kill you, so go camping.
01:34:17
Speaker
He just made names up. Isn't that crazy that he just made these names up? Oh, it's so funny. Like it that the thought last week of like, this is a guy like mad libbing this on the spot. Yeah. Trying to like sound. he's He's literally like trying to to transpose his own dumb thoughts into like King James version. like Yeah, it's written so bad in the the fake language of it, like,
01:34:46
Speaker
the modeling of the King James as though it's ancient like he's trying to convince people that these texts are ancient but they were written in English in King James Bible speech like and people bought it and it's still a religion that people are into I just doesn't make it is no sense it's the same thing is okay people today Like to look back in time and think of like these people as a foreign species to them. Like they're not even made of the same stuff. You know, we're smart now. They were dumb. We're advanced. They were simple. dude This is the exact same. They made the pyramids, dude. They made the pyramids. ah no you can You know we couldn't even make the pyramids today.
01:35:37
Speaker
So we're not as smart now, actually. That's one of those subjects where somebody starts going off on it on like a podcast or something and you're like, I i just, I have no idea if the things you're saying are even true to begin with. Like, right they're not citing sources and linking articles. I mean,
01:35:56
Speaker
I don't know, I just think this is like, you can see the same patterns here that you see in like any, you know, fringe movement, cult, you name it, where it's like,
01:36:09
Speaker
you know we ah We're not like everybody else. We know the truth. you know And nobody else can see it. like We're trying to tell them that they're all doomed and you know they won't listen to us. They drove us into Illinois and tried to murder us. Because I had sex with so many husbands' wives. like it always is the same you've You talk about that all the time. It always goes the same way. i love He starts a religion.
01:36:35
Speaker
and he gets some followers, it only works the farther removed you are from him. Like this didn't, like he had a following, but not like he, not like, it wasn't like a real big religion at the time. They were like, yeah, this guy just keeps trying to have sex with my wife. Like I don't, that's not what I'm trying to be about. And then the further it gets away from it, they're, they just like,
01:37:00
Speaker
gloss over those weird things. And then I don't know, dude, I don't really know what I don't know what people gravitate towards in Mormonism that they can't find in any other form of evangelical Christianity minus the weird underwear. And i I feel like we need to find like, I feel like we need to have after that that, we're getting this ball rolling, dude. I think we need like a real Mormon on the podcast.
01:37:27
Speaker
I know, where's Existential Ginger at? No, I mean like a current practicing Mormon to try to explain it in weird lifetimes. I would love to listen to us rail on it. I'm sure they hate 80% of everything we've said.
01:37:44
Speaker
Here's some facts real quick. I would love to. I just typed in, did Joseph Smith have multiple wives? says Yes, Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon Church, had multiple wives. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints acknowledged this in a series of essays posted online in 2014. How many wives did Joseph Smith have?
01:38:03
Speaker
The LDS Church estimates that Smith had up to 40 wives. Some of his wives were already married to his friends. One of his wives was 14 years old.
01:38:15
Speaker
Nice. Who would have guessed? Dude, it always goes that way. But look, he's just being obedient, right? Because an angel appeared to Smith three times between 1834 and 1842 and commanded him to practice plural marriage. To fuck a 14-year-old. Yes, yeah. Smith's wives were believed to be between the ages of 20 and 40 when they were married to him. Dude, but that, you know what's so funny is like,
01:38:43
Speaker
not to open this can of worms you know after going as long as we have and we can wrap up but it's just ah hilarious to me that like there are plenty of people who try to run cover for Mohammed and he did the same shit he had on he had he had teeny like just barely teenage wives plenty of them plenty of them i don't know man i just as soon as a religion starts by a guy who was fucking children i'm out
01:39:17
Speaker
It's not, i look, and you can use the God used flawed men logic. I know the whole Bible is full of it. That's the whole point. God used flawed men. We heard that every time a pastor had sex with a 13 year old too, we've all heard it. We've all seen it. We've all known of stories of people who had sex with underage girls. God used Joseph Smith and he can use Pete Hegseth.
01:39:41
Speaker
He can use anyone he wants, I guess, and that would be God's way of using people exploitively ah ah exploitatively without their consent because God can use people in whatever way or purpose he wants, which is why it's not so bad when pastors do it to to young children. No? Too much?
01:40:07
Speaker
This is a this is a dark hole. Yeah, we let the wrong direction sunshine on this wrap-up We get a spreader ass cheeks and pointing towards this pointer assholes towards the Sun if we're gonna if We're gonna shine some light on this growly way to denigrate other religions, you know, look this is growing up Christian I didn't mean to shit on Islam or anything, but I just have a It I do try to I do try to, you know, take a step back and be a little introspective because I know I know the Bible is like littered with flawed people doing fucked up shit. But I think the difference is that I like there's just there's just not a lot of room and religions for um people to say to like to like to bow out of this inerrancy idea. Right. Like this is
01:40:59
Speaker
There's a literalism in all forms of religion, ah the main ones the mainstream ones that is incredibly problematic as soon as you go literalistic. like ah so yeah like I think there's a lot of a lot of Muslims out there who have like a beautiful faith and they would be like, yeah, like You know, we take this part seriously, but maybe this part, you know, this doesn't make as much sense given where we are. We have an evolving faith, like cool. But if you're just going to try to tell me that things are the way they were said in the book that they were written in at the time that they were written and that everything has to be not only taken literally, but tried to be made into some like uniform whole.
01:41:44
Speaker
Some like ah what's the word I'm looking for? Univocal is the word like some like univocal good word. It's like No, then then I'm out. And I think like you can look at the evolution of faith from the Hebrew Bible through the Christian New Testament and just go like, yeah, cool. Here's here's a cool little idea of how people have evolved and their understanding of a higher.
01:42:14
Speaker
excuse me of a higher power of some sort of God of whatever you want to call it and there's some wiggle room there when you when you come out on that side but most faiths I don't think most Abrahamic faiths are not really giving that room um Christianity included, and that's why it's hard to call yourself anything but post-Christian when like you you come out on that side of things. like You're just not going to be acknowledged or accepted or recognized within 95% of you know Christian denominations doesn't but or any denomination. If you're an established denomination, you have like ah you have a of ah you have this
01:42:56
Speaker
You have a dogma that you have to uphold and then everything needs to fit into it. Otherwise you you don't work. Yeah. Well, and I think it's kind of, there's a lot of things that mirror that idea, but you know, you look at like silly examples of people doing that nowadays, you know, it's kind of like, um, the the way that people treat historical figures.
01:43:22
Speaker
You know,
Political Polarization
01:43:23
Speaker
and when you're reading about it, like there's a point at which you go from, you know, trying to look at historical figures and events with a critical lens and, and, you know, find the good parts, the bad parts, you know, and then there's, but there's always a temptation from people to like, deify these characters. Bonhoeffer. Oh, and.
01:43:45
Speaker
I mean, like look at the founding fathers. like If you try to deify those guys and make them like some servants of God, prophets that established the perfect system of government or whatever, like you're going to look ridiculous because they did a lot of things that were terrible.
01:44:01
Speaker
It doesn't mean that you have to throw, I mean, that's the other side of it is like, you don't have to throw out or, or, you know, chastise every single person who doesn't line up with like modern sentiments on things, but you can't whitewash them and pretend as if they're not there. You know, like you, you end up looking ridiculous either way because it's it's either you're, you're justifying really awful things in the historical record or you're you're denying everyone that's ever lived before 2001 because they don't check every single box on your values list. like You can have both. You can acknowledge like the good things that people did and the ways that they impacted life in a positive way while also not kidding yourself about the fact that you know Thomas Jefferson was
01:44:53
Speaker
Pretty gross in a lot of way. you know Benjamin Franklin may have had a bunch of bodies hit under his ah his house. is His high flying kite. No, I totally agree. It feels more and more like... conversations. And maybe it's not more and more. Maybe it's just the way that humanity functions in general. But it seems like there's a lot of people who lack the ability have. Excuse me, I don't know why every time I talk my throat just gets all weird. It no having
01:45:35
Speaker
ah lack of There's just a lack of nuance in conversations across all platforms, all sides. It's um it's tiresome.
01:45:47
Speaker
Yeah. And I get people need something. like they People need to have faith in something. It's just like the place that you put it is you know it could just set you up for failure.
01:45:59
Speaker
Like, um, I was talking to a guy the other day that, you know, I, he's a smart guy and I, you know, I don't think he's in total denial about this, but. Um, I was telling him about that podcast that I posted in the, uh, in the discord about how Tulsi Gabbard grew up in that, like Harry Krishna cult. And she's got ties to this, like really seedy leader and stuff like that. And, uh, he'd text me back and he's like, I'm not ready to entertain the fact that Tulsi Gabbard might be, you know, a nefarious character. My heart can't handle it.
01:46:37
Speaker
um like That's hilarious. I know where that comes from. Yeah. But come on. You know what I mean? That is really funny. I'm not ready for that, so I'm gonna just ignore it. Yeah, like he's kidding, but you know. Right. I've done that too where I've looked at like so a subject and I've been like, i yeah I can't go down this hole right now. I'm just gonna put this away.
01:47:03
Speaker
Right. No, it feels that way. Like whenever there's someone you who don't like that does something that's fine, you know, and we're we're here all the time in politics. Like I can't, there's not a single like Republican who could say who would be able to say one thing that Biden did.
01:47:19
Speaker
that was like pretty good and it's like you can't you can't admit that anything you think his entire presidency was one giant abject failure not one success not one good decision not even him his cabinet his constituents, his like, not constituents, constituents would be people voted for him, his ah colleagues, whatever, like the people, the representatives, the senators, like, like, I don't know, it's just it's so tiresome. Like, at the end of the day, I'm gonna have to admit that, you know, for every 10 ridiculous things that, ah you know, Trump does, he might do one thing that aligns with my set of values. And I have to, it does no good. It does no good to say,
01:48:05
Speaker
That's trash. Fuck him. He's trash. He did it for wrong reasons. He didn't do it for any good reason. He didn't even mean to do it. He accidentally stumbled into the right choice because he's so stupid. He couldn't even realize like we could play that game. I want to play that game. I would love nothing more than a well. Okay, that might be too far. I was going to get really violent. um I, we already dodged a couple of assassination attempts and I don't really want one because I think that would just make things worse. So I'm not really going there. That was hyperbolic.
01:48:39
Speaker
But at the end of the day, I do hate that man with a burning passion. I do think he's a fascist. I think he's a fuckface. I don't think he has morals. scruple I think he's a total degenerate who only cares about himself and he's just going to toot his own horn to the end of his days. But he but that might actually result in him doing something that works.
01:49:00
Speaker
ah And if I can't admit it, and I can't have that honest conversation with my family, who we have that divide where it's like, they know how I feel about him. I know how they felt about Biden. Well, I didn't like Biden anyway. So I was mostly on their side for most of those things. But i and if you if I can't just admit when he did something that aligned with my values and go, I'm i'm actually happy for that.
01:49:25
Speaker
Um, then I'll never have any sway. I'll never, there's no point in entertaining those conversations and trying to have meaningful conversations unless you can. And I think that's what's so frustrating for me is like there, there is definitely like things that have been done in the Biden administration that were beneficial for people who vote Republican, who are Donald Trump supporters and fans and sycophants and cock guzzlers and whatever you want to fucking make them out to be. But like.
01:49:55
Speaker
I don't know ah all I have to say whatever who gives a shit I just I feel like it's right yeah it sucks it's super annoying to have to like admit that someone you hate did something right and if you just but you have to you have to when it lines up when they do something that aligns with your values don't try to make it about anything else Just go, that worked. I will talk to you who disagrees with me on most things and say, yeah, that was great. Now, let me talk to you about where my problems are, because now they're going to see you as a reasonable person who has nuanced thinking. And that's certainly what we're lacking in any of our discourse at this point. I will happily eat some crow if he gets the gods of ceasefire done.
01:50:38
Speaker
More than half mother f him on the back, regardless of his motives or whatever, just get it done, please. Yeah. Regardless of motive, but even if like, and this is the thing dude, like I'm not even super confident that he's like a huge player in all of it. Like I don't even know. Like I know that whatever happens, he's going to take credit for every good thing that happens.
01:50:59
Speaker
And I know all of his supporters will believe him endlessly and all of his antagonists will critique him endlessly. And that will deepen the divide. And the people on the left will think of the people on the right will think the people on the left just can't give credit where credit is due. It's dude, I fucking hate this place. I hate this game. I hate this country.
01:51:20
Speaker
i want off this goddamn rock it's this it's just thinking's done dude thinking's done now you're just playing you're just playing psychological games for the purpose of trying to like swing votes and people and Pacify them dude, it's horseshit. Anyway, but I went in a different truck bomber was trying to tell I went in a different direction I was trying to clean this up and close out about finding common ground and I just got really mad I got really mad for the last five seconds of this. So let's just we're done. All right, great podcast and Uh, we need, uh, Jeremiah's gone. Uh,
Conclusion and Community Engagement
01:52:01
Speaker
I wasn't planning on saying this, but, uh, if anybody is interested, this is stupid. Should I say this? Who cares? Anybody want to put video on YouTube for us? That's all I was going to say. We want YouTube back in a case that I don't have time. If anyone's interested, hit us up, join our discord, talk to us, throw a fucking video up on YouTube. It'll be fine. Yeah.
01:52:25
Speaker
That would be nice. How's that for a sell? You want to cut that apart? Pretty good. Pretty good pitch.
01:52:34
Speaker
All right, everybody. Thanks for listening, and we will see you next time.