Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Examining Communication Dynamics between Men & Women
84 Plays4 years ago
Why "JuSt CoMMuNicAte" is the most useless dating advice ever. Adding context around male vs female socialization and how that skews communication dynamics.
Follow us!
Patreon: www.patreon.com/TheFemaleDatingStrategy
Website: www.thefemaledatingstrategy.com
Twitter: @femdatstrat
Instagram: @_thefemaledatingstrategy
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/The-Female-Dating-Strategy-109118567480771
Recommended
Transcript
Podcast Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Before we get started, I just want to make a brief announcement about the state of the pod.
00:00:04
Speaker
We've been getting tons of amazing feedback from women, and it's become very clear to us that a lot of women are thirsty for this type of content.
00:00:12
Speaker
This is a niche in women's media that is desperately needed and has been neglected for a very long time.
00:00:18
Speaker
and we really want to be able to make more content if there's just one problem, and that's money.
00:00:22
Speaker
We would love to be able to quit our day jobs and work full-time on content creation, and the only thing holding us back is the fact that we got bills to pay, if I'm being totally honest.
00:00:32
Speaker
Long term though, we would like to expand into other forms of media, such as video, TikTok, newsletters, ebooks, even like real physical books, and so on.
00:00:43
Speaker
And that's why we've set a new Patreon goal.
00:00:46
Speaker
As soon as we hit $10,000 monthly revenue, that will be enough for us to afford to quit our jobs and start working on growing FDS full time.
00:00:55
Speaker
Currently, our schedules only really allow us to post about 60 to 90 minutes of bonus content per month.
00:01:02
Speaker
And as a reward to our patrons for helping achieve this target, we will commit to posting more bonus content.
00:01:08
Speaker
So if you like FDS and you want us to grow and you want us to make more content, you can support us on Patreon at www.patreon.com forward slash the female dating strategy.
00:01:21
Speaker
Thank you so much to everyone who listened and shared to help us to get to where we are now.
00:01:25
Speaker
And I'm sure this is a sign of even greater things
Communication Mistakes with Men
00:01:28
Speaker
to come.
00:01:28
Speaker
Thank you.
00:01:35
Speaker
What's up, queens?
00:01:36
Speaker
Welcome to the Female Dating Strategy Podcast, the meanest female-only podcast on the internet.
00:01:41
Speaker
I'm your host, Ro.
00:01:42
Speaker
And this is Savannah.
00:01:44
Speaker
And I'm Lilith.
00:01:45
Speaker
And today, we're going to discuss the biggest mistakes women make when trying to communicate with men.
00:01:51
Speaker
Yeah, so in this episode, we're going to tackle just communicate.
00:01:55
Speaker
The old just communicate.
00:01:56
Speaker
The good old Reddit advice.
00:01:58
Speaker
The old, yeah.
00:02:00
Speaker
It's not even just Reddit, to be fair.
00:02:02
Speaker
It's literally all of women's magazines.
00:02:04
Speaker
Just communicate with your partner about, honestly, anything from cannibalism.
00:02:10
Speaker
I found child porn on my boyfriend's computer.
00:02:14
Speaker
Oh, just communicate with him.
00:02:17
Speaker
Yeah, anything from cannibalism to he left the milk out, right, is the answer is always to just communicate, which is actually insane, as we've discussed before in a lot of scenarios.
00:02:27
Speaker
So we're going to talk about why just communicate as a strategy is often really, really ineffective.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like women have been lied to about, you know, how to communicate with men.
00:02:38
Speaker
Like, the concept of just communicate, you know, you imagine, say you have a problem with your boyfriend, and you think to yourself, oh, I'm just going to sit down with him and we'll have a heartfelt conversation about why this bothers me, and then he'll listen, and then he'll care, and then he'll change his behavior accordingly, right?
00:02:55
Speaker
Right.
00:02:56
Speaker
Rock!
00:02:57
Speaker
That's not how it fucking works.
00:02:59
Speaker
High-value men will.
00:03:00
Speaker
We should actually preface that to say most high-value men will make an effort to change if you communicate things with them earnestly.
00:03:08
Speaker
But even in those scenarios, there's just some marked differences between how men and women communicate with each other, communicate with members of their own sex, and massive differences in the way that we're socialized that make the communication between men and women difficult.
00:03:26
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say even high value men sometimes can fall into these traps where, I mean, it depends how you're communicating, right?
00:03:32
Speaker
Because sometimes when you're communicating, and you're just like emoting, but you go into that conversation without a strategy, you're still not going to be able to get your point across as effectively as if you did go into it with a strategy.
00:03:47
Speaker
And that's even with a high value man.
00:03:49
Speaker
Simply because, you know, men and women have not received the same socialization.
00:03:53
Speaker
Even if he's a generally decent guy, you know, he still received male socialization.
00:03:57
Speaker
And also, like, the society that we live in, the risks and rewards and the consequences for doing things or not doing certain things are different for men and women.
00:04:07
Speaker
And that's why I think, like, women and men, when they're communicating with one another, just end up sort of, like, talking at each other, but don't really understand each other.
00:04:14
Speaker
Underlying behavior ends up not changing.
00:04:17
Speaker
Yeah, soft skills are a thing you can spend a lifetime learning because it's just a matter of putting yourself in a lot of different situations with a lot of different people and a lot of different backgrounds.
00:04:25
Speaker
Sex differences are the most talked about and seemingly sometimes the most unsolvable.
00:04:32
Speaker
We're going to at least attempt to discuss why sometimes the tactics that women try when trying to communicate with men so often fall flat and why so much of the mainstream advice about just communicate is this being this catch-all thing.
00:04:45
Speaker
for relationship problems more or less won't work.
00:04:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:48
Speaker
I mean, the women's magazines will be like, oh, just communicate.
00:04:51
Speaker
And she's like, I did communicate.
00:04:53
Speaker
And like, oh, but did you communicate the right way?
00:04:55
Speaker
You have to say it in the right tone of voice.
00:04:57
Speaker
You don't want to, you know, say it in a way that's going to get him defensive or you don't want to do this or you want to do that.
00:05:01
Speaker
And
00:05:02
Speaker
It can come across victim-blamey, right?
00:05:04
Speaker
It can come across like, oh, well, you're responsible for his behavior because you didn't communicate the right way.
00:05:09
Speaker
So in this episode, we're just going to go into some of my theories, why I think that communication between men and women often falls flat, some of the male-female communication dynamics.
00:05:21
Speaker
We're going to talk about some of the common mistakes that women make when dealing with men and offer some more effective solutions.
00:05:27
Speaker
And some of this will apply to both men and women, like all humans.
00:05:31
Speaker
Some will apply to both high-value men and low-value men.
00:05:34
Speaker
Some will only be true for low-value men.
00:05:36
Speaker
So let's get into it.
Motivations and Gender Dynamics
00:05:38
Speaker
I want to start off by saying all humans, both male and female, are motivated by two things.
00:05:43
Speaker
Fear of loss and desire for gain.
00:05:45
Speaker
Fear of loss and desire for gain is something that I learned in as part of my sales training.
00:05:51
Speaker
And one of the things you learn in sales is that when you're talking to customers, it's not enough to just be really friendly and nice to them.
00:05:59
Speaker
People aren't going to buy something from you because you're a nice person or because they feel bad for you if they don't buy it.
00:06:04
Speaker
People are motivated by generally self-interest.
00:06:07
Speaker
And that doesn't make them a bad person or anything.
00:06:09
Speaker
Like all humans are motivated by self-interest.
00:06:12
Speaker
And those two main things are fear of loss and desire for gain.
00:06:15
Speaker
That's just something like we're all instinctually sort of like programmed to care about.
00:06:21
Speaker
And even, you know, people think like, oh, but what about altruism?
00:06:23
Speaker
What about doing the right thing?
00:06:24
Speaker
That kind of stuff.
00:06:25
Speaker
And generally speaking, like altruism is not that motivating.
00:06:28
Speaker
People are not that motivated by altruism.
00:06:30
Speaker
And they'll only do altruistic things if the loss is low or there's something to gain from it.
00:06:35
Speaker
And then we get so much performative altruism, right?
00:06:39
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:40
Speaker
Like, you know, Coca-Cola doesn't really give a shit about polar bears.
00:06:43
Speaker
They're only doing it for the tax breaks and for the marketing.
00:06:46
Speaker
Okay.
00:06:46
Speaker
And then just about everybody on Twitter with a blue check is motivated by performative altruism where it's like, it's the perceived social gain, right?
00:06:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:56
Speaker
And I mean, people think that, and I don't think that's a bad thing.
00:07:00
Speaker
I think we need to really like sort of de-stigmatize the reality.
00:07:03
Speaker
People will say, oh, that's so cynical that people are motivated by self-interest.
00:07:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:08
Speaker
Like that's just how it is, right?
00:07:10
Speaker
Like that doesn't make you a bad person.
00:07:12
Speaker
It's just what the reality of being a person.
00:07:15
Speaker
But anyways, the thing is, though, like, because of gender roles and because men and women are socialized differently, fear of loss and desire for gain play out differently in men versus women.
00:07:26
Speaker
I find that men are generally permitted to be more selfish than women.
00:07:29
Speaker
They're not punished for it.
00:07:30
Speaker
And so there's no fear of loss.
00:07:33
Speaker
And in fact, generally, they are rewarded for it.
00:07:35
Speaker
So they actually, men on average, have more to gain from being selfish than women.
00:07:40
Speaker
Whereas women were raised to be endlessly self-sacrificial and to put other people's needs before our own.
00:07:45
Speaker
And from a very young age, girls are pretty much bullied out of our natural self-preservation instincts, right?
00:07:50
Speaker
We're punished much more harshly for...
00:07:53
Speaker
quote-unquote, selfish behavior.
00:07:55
Speaker
So women have more to lose from being selfish.
00:07:58
Speaker
And we're praised when we're selfless and show empathy.
00:08:01
Speaker
And so as we grow up, you know, women, because we've been taught that being selfless and being giving and generous is a good thing, we grow up thinking that we will be continuously rewarded for selfless behavior.
00:08:14
Speaker
And then we end up in relationships with men, and this could not be further from the truth.
00:08:19
Speaker
So mistake number one is appealing to a man's empathy or morality.
00:08:24
Speaker
And so an example of that would be like, please stop doing this because it hurts my feelings.
00:08:28
Speaker
Or please stop doing this because it's wrong or something like that.
00:08:31
Speaker
And basically, it's a mistake because men have just not been socialized to feel empathy for women.
00:08:37
Speaker
Well, I just, I think, I want to almost say like, it's not that they're...
00:08:40
Speaker
completely devoid of empathy for women.
00:08:42
Speaker
It's just that things that bother us are not perceived as something they feel obligated to participate in a solution for, right?
00:08:51
Speaker
I mean, there's just this mentality with men, especially how men communicate with other men.
00:08:54
Speaker
It's like every man for himself.
00:08:56
Speaker
So when women need things or women want things, especially relationship-wise, I think a lot of them just have this blank space where they can't fill in the reason why, right?
00:09:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah, they just don't care.
00:09:08
Speaker
Yeah, they just don't.
00:09:13
Speaker
I don't know.
00:09:13
Speaker
I'm trying to think of like, what are some examples of my own relations?
00:09:16
Speaker
Honestly, some of them are so embarrassing to talk about.
00:09:19
Speaker
Like, you know, women often find ourselves like begging for a text back or begging for basic human decency and like good treatment and stuff.
00:09:27
Speaker
And like men, they just don't... Asking them to do it because it's something that you want or it would make you happy.
00:09:32
Speaker
Like, first of all, low value men just isn't going to care about making you happy.
00:09:36
Speaker
So if you know he's low value, like that's when it's time to move on.
00:09:41
Speaker
But it's also important to remember that men and women are just held to a very different standard of morality.
00:09:45
Speaker
Like women are expected to...
00:09:46
Speaker
Make other people comfortable.
00:09:48
Speaker
I don't think men worry about whether other people are comfortable, right?
00:09:51
Speaker
Exactly.
00:09:52
Speaker
Yeah.
00:09:53
Speaker
Whereas women, it's more of a knee-jerk reaction for us to look at the betterment of the group instead of just ourselves.
00:10:02
Speaker
Whereas for men, as long as someone's not dying, there's not necessarily a reason for them to go out of their way to scan and make sure everyone is okay and everyone's feeling good.
00:10:11
Speaker
It's just not necessarily in their socialization.
00:10:13
Speaker
Yeah.
00:10:14
Speaker
Exactly, right?
00:10:15
Speaker
And you see this all the time.
00:10:16
Speaker
Men know to appeal to a woman's empathy.
00:10:19
Speaker
And I see men do this all the time.
00:10:20
Speaker
They're like, what about men's mental health?
00:10:22
Speaker
And what about this?
00:10:23
Speaker
When women are saying, we're afraid of men because some men are rapists and stuff.
00:10:28
Speaker
Men are like, oh, but not all men.
00:10:29
Speaker
And it makes us feel bad when women think that some of us could be rapists and stuff.
00:10:33
Speaker
And then women are like, oh, you poor baby, acting like he's a wounded bird or something like that.
00:10:39
Speaker
Notice how they don't do anything...
00:10:41
Speaker
That might cost them anything to make men as a group look less like rapists, right?
00:10:47
Speaker
They don't want to do anything to change that.
00:10:49
Speaker
They just want you to not believe that.
00:10:51
Speaker
Yeah, like they just want, it's all purely about like their ego, right?
00:10:55
Speaker
Basically, like, you know, men know to manipulate women's empathy because they know that we have it.
00:11:00
Speaker
When women try to manipulate a man's empathy, it just doesn't work because there's no empathy to manipulate.
00:11:06
Speaker
You know, you could manipulate his ego or his stupidity or something else like that, but there's just, you know, it's like getting blood out of a stone.
00:11:14
Speaker
It's just, they just don't have it, right?
00:11:16
Speaker
They just don't see it the same way that we do.
00:11:18
Speaker
Um, I do want to say side note, like be very careful, even though I say, generally speaking, men don't feel empathy for women.
00:11:24
Speaker
I will say, be very careful about men who seem too empathetic.
00:11:28
Speaker
You know, empathy is a good quality, but I've also met a lot of these like soft boy types that are very good at performing empathy or, you know, you'll have a conversation with him about your feelings and he'll be like, Oh, totally.
00:11:39
Speaker
I'm so glad we can have this open conversation and talk about each other's needs and stuff, but then nothing changes.
00:11:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:11:45
Speaker
Or he'll change for like a week or two and his behavior goes right back to normal.
00:11:50
Speaker
Yeah, so some guys will like perform empathy just because they think that that's what you want to hear, but they won't actually change because they have no incentive to.
00:12:00
Speaker
And that's really what it comes down to.
00:12:01
Speaker
When they're just not socialized to try and make women comfortable, part of it is because there's just no incentive for them to do it and there's no consequences for them not doing it.
00:12:09
Speaker
Socially, men have nothing to lose by not having empathy for women.
00:12:13
Speaker
In fact, to have empathy for women for a lot of men is a loss.
00:12:16
Speaker
For a man to have empathy for women would be to acknowledge their part in male violence, and that would involve a loss of dominance or loss of control, loss of privileges.
00:12:27
Speaker
When men show empathy to women, they are seen as a simp or pussy whipped or white knighting and so on.
00:12:32
Speaker
So to actually feel empathy for women is a loss for a lot of men.
00:12:38
Speaker
And I think an important point to make in this section is that when women try to appeal to a man's morality in the Just Communicate saga, it's overlooking the fact that a lot of men know that they're behaving in a shitty way because if you treated them the same way they're treating you, they would not like it at all.
00:13:02
Speaker
So there's a sense of almost... Entitlement?
00:13:08
Speaker
Entitlement,
Empathy and Consequences in Relationships
00:13:09
Speaker
yeah.
00:13:09
Speaker
And superiority in that they feel that they can treat you in a particular way, but then when the boot's on the other foot, they wouldn't like it and they wouldn't stand for it.
00:13:20
Speaker
So it's not that they don't know what's right and wrong and how to treat and how to speak to people.
00:13:28
Speaker
It's just that they feel entitled to treat you badly and to get away with it.
00:13:32
Speaker
Well, I think they just perceive it as like necessary double standards too, right?
00:13:36
Speaker
Because I remember... They see it as their right.
00:13:38
Speaker
Yeah, I remember reading a self, like an essay from a guy who had grown up in a very patriarchal type culture.
00:13:46
Speaker
I think he was like a Southern Baptist type guy.
00:13:49
Speaker
And him talking about how certain aspects of their culture that was passed down to him, he just accepted without thinking about it.
00:13:57
Speaker
It was something that was just the way it was.
00:14:00
Speaker
And so for a lot of men, if they're not making a concerted effort to unlearn some of the messaging they get about how women think and feel, women's place in society, uh,
00:14:11
Speaker
who they should be in relation to women, then they won't, right?
00:14:15
Speaker
It won't occur to them that these things are wrong.
00:14:17
Speaker
It won't occur to them that women have a problem with it.
00:14:19
Speaker
And then when they see women that do have a problem with it, there's always a quick and easy way to discredit her, right?
00:14:27
Speaker
She's a slut.
00:14:29
Speaker
She's a bitter old post-wall spinster, right?
00:14:36
Speaker
There's very, very easy ways to take...
00:14:39
Speaker
someone's behavior or perceived behavior and then use that to discredit the validity of their argument.
00:14:46
Speaker
And that's not just done between men and women, that's done on so many different levels.
00:14:50
Speaker
But that's a key part of it too, is that if they don't make that effort, then they won't empathize with the things that women want them to empathize with because they won't see it as a problem.
00:15:01
Speaker
They'll just think, well, this is the way it is.
00:15:02
Speaker
Or what about men?
00:15:03
Speaker
Or men have this going on, et cetera.
00:15:05
Speaker
And they know it's one-sided.
00:15:07
Speaker
Like, they expect women to feel empathy for men, but they don't think it's their job to feel empathy for women.
00:15:12
Speaker
And in fact, like, just the way that society is structured right now, men have nothing to gain from having empathy for women, and they have everything to lose.
00:15:19
Speaker
And so, my solution, my alternative, is, as a woman, you have to be the one to enforce consequences.
00:15:27
Speaker
And I know that might sound really harsh, but quite frankly, like as so long as men are living in this world where not having empathy for women gets them the result that they want and they're not punished for it, they're just going to continue to do that because they have no incentive to change.
00:15:41
Speaker
I mean, that's the general female dating strategy philosophy.
00:15:43
Speaker
And at least...
00:15:44
Speaker
We can't control that, you know, on a society-wide scale, but for the most part, most of us can control that within our relationships, barring certain types of cultures where women really don't have as many choices.
00:15:54
Speaker
But to the extent that you can, the idea is to enforce consequences, and usually that's the loss of your presence for men who don't extend the level of empathy that you feel is necessary.
00:16:08
Speaker
Exactly.
00:16:09
Speaker
And so, yeah, usually it means the loss of your presence or loss of your attention.
00:16:13
Speaker
That's why we tell women like block and delete.
00:16:15
Speaker
If a guy, once you identify that a guy's low value, that's when you should leave him.
00:16:19
Speaker
We do understand for a lot of women, they're not going to leave their Nigel.
00:16:22
Speaker
Like that's just a fact.
00:16:23
Speaker
And so if you're not willing, you're not able to leave him, you have to impose consequences in other ways.
00:16:29
Speaker
So that might mean, you know,
00:16:32
Speaker
matching his energy.
00:16:33
Speaker
For example, if he's not putting in energy around the home, that's when you start to pull back and stop contributing around the home.
00:16:40
Speaker
Or, you know, say he's not meeting your emotional needs, that's when you stop meeting his emotional needs.
00:16:45
Speaker
Let's say he's a selfish lover and hasn't made you come in 10 years, that's when you just stop having sex with him.
00:16:52
Speaker
Like, if he's not meeting your needs, then...
00:16:55
Speaker
you stop meeting his needs.
00:16:56
Speaker
And he's not going to like that.
00:16:58
Speaker
And it's going to be seen as abnormal to him.
00:17:01
Speaker
And that's why we tell women, like, honestly, it's much easier to break up with a guy and start fresh with a new guy.
00:17:06
Speaker
Because if he's used to a gravy train where things always work out in his favor without him having to really contribute, it's going to be really hard to have that mindset shift.
00:17:15
Speaker
If he's used to you being a doormat and having his needs catered to, he's going to resist or he's going to fight those changes, right?
00:17:23
Speaker
I mean, I have a perfect example of that, of a guy I was dating where there was like one day where I spent the entire day with him going to different clothing stores and watching him try on clothes, watching him try on shoes, just spent the whole day with him.
00:17:37
Speaker
Wasn't like my ideal day or ideal way to spend a Saturday, but it was important to him.
00:17:42
Speaker
You know, he'd ask my opinion about certain things he bought and he just kind of likes, you know, going around, I think, flaunting some of his money too about certain things he would buy.
00:17:49
Speaker
So I went with him.
00:17:51
Speaker
And then probably a couple weeks later, I was like, hey, I need to go purchase a new mattress.
00:17:56
Speaker
Would you mind coming with me to go mattress shopping?
00:17:59
Speaker
And he just flat out refused.
00:18:01
Speaker
And I was like, he's like, I don't want to spend my Saturday that way.
00:18:03
Speaker
And I'm like, well, you know, a couple weeks ago, we spent time, I spent time with you going from store to store, wasting my fucking Saturday.
00:18:12
Speaker
Yeah.
00:18:12
Speaker
basically like watching you try and close, didn't really say much was more than supportive.
00:18:17
Speaker
And then when it came to something that was actually important to me, you just flat out don't want to do it because you find it boring.
00:18:21
Speaker
And I'm like, okay, then I will never hang out with you and doing anything that I find boring ever.
00:18:26
Speaker
Right.
00:18:27
Speaker
And so at that point, I mean, at that point, the relationship's almost over because besides that, there are several different other points in the relationship where
00:18:35
Speaker
I would express a need or he would want something, which I was fine with doing.
00:18:38
Speaker
But then when it came to return the favor, it was like completely non-existent on his part.
00:18:43
Speaker
He didn't feel like obligated or that he should have to.
00:18:46
Speaker
And so stuff like that, if that's a man's habitual pattern, there's nothing you can do, but, but get rid of that guy.
00:18:52
Speaker
If it's like, you know, if, if it's something where he's having like a lapse and not really seeing to the extent that things are getting really, really one-sided, then I think that's when you kind of employ the
00:19:02
Speaker
the strategy of just straight up, okay, well, look, I'm going to reclaim my Saturdays to myself.
00:19:07
Speaker
And
00:19:09
Speaker
You do what you want to do, right?
00:19:10
Speaker
We're just going to spend our Saturdays doing what we actually want to do and not doing what the other person wants to do at the other person's expense.
00:19:16
Speaker
What one person wants to do at the other person's expense.
00:19:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:19
Speaker
And obviously in a healthy relationship, you should be able to, you know, make these kinds of small sacrifices for your partner.
00:19:25
Speaker
Like going shopping, if it's something important to them and it doesn't really cost you a whole lot, going shopping with them, you know.
00:19:33
Speaker
Why not?
00:19:33
Speaker
Like, it would be, it's important to them.
00:19:35
Speaker
So, you know, you should want to do that.
00:19:39
Speaker
If the man is not willing to do that for you, though, then, like, what is there to talk about, right?
00:19:43
Speaker
Like, you know, if you're willing to do that for them, they're not willing to do that for you, then you're destined to have a one-sided relationship.
00:19:50
Speaker
relationship and it's just going to lead to resentment.
00:19:54
Speaker
So if he refuses to demonstrate reciprocity, that's when you stop doing nice things for him.
00:19:58
Speaker
And that's just like, and I'm sure a lot of people, you know, a lot of people say that FDS that we're promoting like emotional abuse or that we're abusing men by, you know, oh, you're being controlling or you're doing this and that.
00:20:10
Speaker
It's like, you know, they say that withholding sex, for example, is quote unquote abusive.
00:20:14
Speaker
And it's like, no, if I'm not enjoying sex with this man, I'm allowed to say no.
00:20:19
Speaker
I kind of think sex is different from other things.
00:20:22
Speaker
So I almost want to leave that to a separate topic because sex is like not one of those things where I think women should just do it if they're not happy at all.
00:20:30
Speaker
Versus like if a guy wants to do something and it's just like...
00:20:33
Speaker
He wants to go to a baseball game.
00:20:34
Speaker
I don't like going to a baseball game, but I'll go.
00:20:36
Speaker
But I think it's a completely different thing to be like, fuck guys when you're not in the mood, right?
00:20:39
Speaker
It's going to make you... No, that's exactly what I'm saying.
00:20:42
Speaker
If you're not enjoying it, then don't have sex with him.
00:20:44
Speaker
They think it's emotionally abusive to impose consequences, and I don't think that at all.
00:20:48
Speaker
It's a basic rule of society that actions have consequences.
00:20:54
Speaker
So...
00:20:55
Speaker
Why they do the shocked Pikachu face when, if they're behaving shady, that the woman starts to pull back is just beyond me.
00:21:03
Speaker
Well, because consequences are something that the dominant person imposes on the subordinate person.
00:21:09
Speaker
You think about, like, parents enforcing consequences to their kids when they're being bad.
00:21:14
Speaker
The government, you know, say you commit a crime, the government puts you in jail.
00:21:17
Speaker
That's the consequence for your actions.
00:21:18
Speaker
It's seen as very abnormal for women to impose consequences on men and wrong, I think because...
00:21:24
Speaker
And every time you do, they call you crazy.
00:21:26
Speaker
Ask me how I know.
00:21:28
Speaker
People are all about consequences when it's the subordinate person receiving the consequences from someone who's more powerful.
00:21:35
Speaker
But when women impose consequences on men, it's seen as wrong because it's seen as abnormal for women to be in power.
00:21:41
Speaker
And deep down, they believe that women shouldn't have boundaries.
00:21:44
Speaker
That's what it comes back to, that women should just be prepared to swallow whatever's served up to them at the relationship table.
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:54
Speaker
Anyways, mistake number two, excessive praise for bare minimum behavior.
00:21:59
Speaker
And this is also known as the fawning response.
00:22:03
Speaker
And this is something that drives me crazy.
00:22:04
Speaker
I think we all know, we've all seen those kinds of memes where a husband did the dishes and the woman's like, oh my gosh, honey, like you did such a good job.
00:22:12
Speaker
Like, you know, a man does something like buying her flowers and she just goes crazy.
00:22:17
Speaker
Oh,
00:22:17
Speaker
Oh my God, he bought me flowers.
00:22:19
Speaker
What an amazing, great guy he is.
00:22:22
Speaker
And I'm sure a lot of people listening to this are thinking, hey, so if everyone is motivated by fear of loss and desire for gain, and if I'm supposed to impose consequences for bad behavior, then I should impose rewards for good behavior, right?
00:22:36
Speaker
Not quite.
00:22:37
Speaker
One of our mod rules used to be like, don't throw Scooby snacks to trolls.
00:22:44
Speaker
Don't throw Scooby snacks to the dogs.
00:22:46
Speaker
Here's the thing is like disproportionate praise for things that really should be considered normal only ends up stroking his ego when he hasn't earned it.
00:22:55
Speaker
And it just reinforces the bareness.
00:22:58
Speaker
Basically, it makes him feel like he's amazing.
00:23:01
Speaker
He's an amazing boyfriend for doing something really, really minimal.
00:23:05
Speaker
And it teaches him that all he has to do is the bare minimum in order for him to continue to get a high reward.
00:23:12
Speaker
You're teaching him minimal investment equals high reward.
00:23:15
Speaker
And that's not a lesson that you want to be teaching him.
00:23:17
Speaker
It sort of goes back to the idea that all men benefit from bad men because, you know, bad men lower the bar so much to the point where if, you know, a man just barely touches the bar, he's seen as a superior being.
00:23:35
Speaker
And it's almost like society's way of rewarding, like basically reinforcing the bare minimum criteria in men.
00:23:42
Speaker
Exactly.
00:23:42
Speaker
You see this all the time when like, you know, you see dads out in public playing with their kids or a dad takes their kid to the park and they're like, oh my God, he's such a great, like, I mean, sometimes there's, don't get me wrong.
00:23:53
Speaker
There's also the suspicion of like, who is this man with this child?
00:23:56
Speaker
Is he kidnapping his, even if it's his kid, is he a pedophile?
00:23:59
Speaker
Is he kidnapping his own kid?
00:24:01
Speaker
So that does happen.
00:24:02
Speaker
But in other cases, a lot of cases there's like, oh my God, he's such a great dad, like spending time, you know, babysitting, the phrase babysitting his own kid.
00:24:11
Speaker
That makes me crazy.
00:24:12
Speaker
It's your kid.
00:24:13
Speaker
It's your kid.
00:24:14
Speaker
You're not babysitting.
00:24:15
Speaker
It's your child.
00:24:19
Speaker
You're not being paid $20 an hour as an external relative.
00:24:24
Speaker
It is your offspring.
00:24:25
Speaker
You cannot babysit.
00:24:26
Speaker
It's your own offspring.
00:24:28
Speaker
that's not how it works right so like but here's the thing is like moms you know when you see a mom out in public with her child like nobody thinks that that's exceptional like that scene is normal uh and also i find moms are treated like very harshly and treated with a very high bar men get rewarded for like really basic shit like pat you know that like taylor swift video um
00:24:50
Speaker
the man, I think.
00:24:51
Speaker
If I were a man, there's this one scene in the video where she's dressed as a man, she pats her kid on the head, and it's like, Dad of the Year!
00:25:00
Speaker
And everyone's praising him and stuff.
00:25:02
Speaker
So, yeah, this excessive praise for bare minimum behavior teaches men, it only reinforces the bare minimum behavior.
00:25:10
Speaker
It means that they have no incentive to
00:25:12
Speaker
go the extra mile.
00:25:13
Speaker
If you've already given 100, 110%, you know, how much, what are you going to do?
00:25:17
Speaker
Like give him your kidney or something?
00:25:19
Speaker
Like, you know, you don't have that much more to give.
00:25:21
Speaker
Even if you give him your kidney, he can still run off.
00:25:24
Speaker
Ask George Lopez, the comedian, what happened with his wife.
00:25:28
Speaker
So there's that.
00:25:29
Speaker
And there's a way to show or to acknowledge what he's done without doing the excessive fawning over him as well.
00:25:38
Speaker
I think there's a fine line between the two.
00:25:42
Speaker
Some people don't quite get right.
00:25:44
Speaker
And then it crosses the line into praising men for literally doing the bare minimum.
00:25:48
Speaker
So, for example, I've seen a lot of videos go viral where a man is doing his daughter's hair.
00:25:55
Speaker
And I'll just be like, okay, good for him.
00:25:57
Speaker
But there are people like, yeah, dad of the year.
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah, he's great.
00:26:00
Speaker
Yeah, king.
00:26:01
Speaker
That's what kings do.
00:26:02
Speaker
I was like, no, this isn't what kings do.
00:26:04
Speaker
This is just a man looking after his offspring.
00:26:07
Speaker
This is, I mean, I can say, okay, cool.
00:26:10
Speaker
Good for you.
00:26:10
Speaker
But that's about
Maintaining Standards and Relationship Dynamics
00:26:12
Speaker
it.
00:26:12
Speaker
You can show appreciation or acknowledgement when they've done something good, but you don't have to be blowing hot smoke up their ass.
00:26:19
Speaker
Exactly.
00:26:20
Speaker
I mean, again, it's about matching his energy.
00:26:23
Speaker
So say he takes you out for dinner and he pays for it at the end.
00:26:28
Speaker
You know, you smile, say thank you.
00:26:30
Speaker
You know, I'd love to see you again.
00:26:31
Speaker
You know, maybe a peck on the cheek or something like that.
00:26:34
Speaker
You don't have to be like...
00:26:35
Speaker
Oh my God, you're such an amazing guy.
00:26:38
Speaker
Like guys these days don't pay for dinner.
00:26:41
Speaker
And the fact that you paid for dinner makes you so special.
00:26:44
Speaker
Like that kind of stuff.
00:26:45
Speaker
That's just weird.
00:26:46
Speaker
Right.
00:26:46
Speaker
And we talk about that because you talk about not giving men that much praise as well, because then it gives the impression that you're not used to being treated nicely.
00:26:54
Speaker
They're not, you're not used to being treated well.
00:26:55
Speaker
Yeah.
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
00:26:57
Speaker
Exactly.
00:26:58
Speaker
And men, if they get a sniff of that, they will use that against you.
00:27:04
Speaker
If they come to realise that you've been, you know, treated less than Stella before, it makes them, for some men, it makes them believe, well, actually, she could be, you know, it's basically fair game to treat her even worse.
00:27:17
Speaker
You don't want to give away your cards.
00:27:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:19
Speaker
They think, oh, if she'd date a guy who treated her badly, then I can get away with treating her badly.
00:27:24
Speaker
And the other thing is, it just, it's sad, but it's true that, like, if a man sees a woman and he knows that she's used to being treated badly, it decreases her value in his mind.
00:27:35
Speaker
As sad as it is, even, you know, so-called good guys or whatever.
00:27:39
Speaker
I see so many of these stories on Reddit where a woman is married and she tells a guy that she was either like sexually assaulted or abused or something like that.
00:27:46
Speaker
The man says, oh, it makes me see her differently.
00:27:49
Speaker
It makes me see her as less.
00:27:50
Speaker
And so, yeah, you don't want to give the impression to men, even the so-called good ones, that you've been treated badly in the past because it's just going to decrease their perception of you.
00:28:02
Speaker
If he asks, just always say you've been treated well and that your past relationships ended due to different goals or something like that.
00:28:10
Speaker
We moved our separate ways.
00:28:12
Speaker
We went on different paths.
00:28:16
Speaker
It's the same thing you do when you leave a bad job for a better job, right?
00:28:19
Speaker
You never say like, my boss was garbage.
00:28:22
Speaker
Was an asshole, yeah.
00:28:23
Speaker
Everybody I worked with was trashed.
00:28:25
Speaker
You just say, well, I just felt that I could pursue better opportunities elsewhere.
00:28:31
Speaker
You know, you have to give them the old PR answer.
00:28:34
Speaker
I'm really grateful to my last company for all the opportunities, but I felt like I could further my development with you.
00:28:41
Speaker
That's what you need to say.
00:28:42
Speaker
Right.
00:28:43
Speaker
In fact, even if I've had a really bad experience at a past job, I'll actually say positive things about the company.
00:28:50
Speaker
Like, I really liked how they invested in their employees.
00:28:53
Speaker
You know, they really invested into their education and career development and blah, blah, blah.
00:28:58
Speaker
And I find when you do that, it makes the next company think like, okay, this is what this person has come to expect.
00:29:04
Speaker
And I mean, if you're interviewing with a company, you're interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you, right?
00:29:10
Speaker
And so some of them will respond by being like, oh, yeah, and here are the other educational opportunities we offer our employees.
00:29:19
Speaker
If they're motivated to hire you, they'll respond with something like that, right?
00:29:23
Speaker
If they're a company you don't want to work for, they'll be like, hmm, like...
00:29:26
Speaker
you know, they won't have a positive reaction to that and you don't want to work for them anyways.
00:29:30
Speaker
So even if you have had bad experiences, you're actually more likely to get the result that you want by giving the illusion at least that you've had a good experience in the past.
00:29:40
Speaker
And then if the other person is good, they'll want to match that.
00:29:42
Speaker
Yeah.
00:29:43
Speaker
So basically it just goes back to matching his energy.
00:29:46
Speaker
He knows that if he wants to continue to receive your attention, he needs to reciprocate appropriately.
00:29:52
Speaker
Also, I want to rant about the, like, do not do... Do not fucking do a sex for chores arrangement.
00:29:59
Speaker
I hate, hate, hate this so much.
00:30:02
Speaker
Have you seen those chore charts of, like, oh, I do the dishes, I get a blowjob, like, that kind of stuff?
00:30:07
Speaker
Have you seen those?
00:30:08
Speaker
I saw a post on Reddit one time, and it was on Rsex, which is normally, like, the typical sex posse community, and a woman was there saying that she was so proud of herself.
00:30:19
Speaker
She was, like...
00:30:21
Speaker
oh, my boyfriend did the dishes today, so I gave him a blowjob and I'll give him a blowjob every time he does the dishes because he never does the dishes.
00:30:31
Speaker
And even the comments were like, this is such a bad idea.
00:30:35
Speaker
You know, you tying something like, I guess, your sexual pleasure to whether he washes up after himself.
00:30:42
Speaker
Like, even our sex was like, it was like, nasus.
00:30:47
Speaker
That would have got the nasus flair.
00:30:48
Speaker
Yeah.
00:30:49
Speaker
on that subreddit.
00:30:52
Speaker
It's crazy.
00:30:53
Speaker
First of all, it's, like, humiliating.
00:30:55
Speaker
Like, you're literally, like, debasing yourself so he can do dishes.
00:30:59
Speaker
Secondly, like, think more practically what is the actual lesson that you're teaching him here?
00:31:04
Speaker
You're teaching him that if he wants a blowjob, he has to do the dishes.
00:31:08
Speaker
And so then he's not going to do the dishes unless you give him a blowjob.
00:31:12
Speaker
And then you're basically prostituting yourself for dishes.
00:31:15
Speaker
And, like...
00:31:16
Speaker
And then if he doesn't want a blowjob, then he's got no incentive to do the dishes.
00:31:22
Speaker
So you're screwed.
00:31:23
Speaker
And so, yeah, sex should be for your pleasure alone.
00:31:27
Speaker
It should not be a carrot for him to do the dishes.
00:31:30
Speaker
You can withhold sex if he is displeasing you, because to have sex when he's displeasing you is not conducive to your pleasure.
00:31:37
Speaker
But to give him sex over unrelated shit like dishes or, you know, taking care of the kids or whatever, right?
00:31:45
Speaker
Um...
00:31:46
Speaker
you're just undermining your own sexual pleasure in the long run.
00:31:50
Speaker
You know, at most, like, here's, here's the thing.
00:31:52
Speaker
If at most, let's say you have a dead bedroom and, you know, he's complaining because he's not getting sex.
00:32:00
Speaker
And the reason why you have a dead bedroom is because his man baby routine is a huge turnoff because it fucking is who would want to have sex with someone they have to take care of like a child.
00:32:10
Speaker
Um,
00:32:12
Speaker
At most, I would say, I would have more energy for sex if you did more around the house and let him take the initiative.
00:32:18
Speaker
I have had conversations with that, like, with guys.
00:32:21
Speaker
And most of the time, the guy will just get kind of defensive and be like...
00:32:26
Speaker
Well, you know, you just have to ask or, you know, maybe if you asked, I would did it or like, what do you mean?
00:32:31
Speaker
I have to blah, blah, blah.
00:32:32
Speaker
You know, like they'll go like that.
00:32:34
Speaker
And that's even more of a turnoff.
00:32:36
Speaker
Like that's them badgering you for sex, right?
00:32:38
Speaker
That's even more of a turnoff.
00:32:40
Speaker
And that makes my pussy dry up that much more.
00:32:43
Speaker
Those are usually like spelling the end of the that's like foreshadowing the end of the relationship.
00:32:48
Speaker
Like if I say I would have more energy for sex if you help more on the house and he gets mad about that, then it's like, nah,
Impact of Abuse on Libido
00:32:55
Speaker
never mind.
00:32:55
Speaker
Like that's that's just the opposite of improvement.
00:32:58
Speaker
This is why I'm so skeptical of the stories from men from our dead bedrooms who are like, my wife won't fuck me.
00:33:04
Speaker
And it's like, well... It's probably your fault.
00:33:06
Speaker
Are you helping her around the house?
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:08
Speaker
It's like, are you being attractive to her?
00:33:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:10
Speaker
Are you treating her like a mommy McBang maid?
00:33:13
Speaker
Exactly.
00:33:14
Speaker
And the other thing is, like, side note, when a woman's libido drops suddenly, a lot of the times it's because the man is...
00:33:22
Speaker
There have been past relationships where the man was being abusive to me and my libido drops down into hell.
00:33:28
Speaker
Like I just, I think it's like an evolutionary adaptation where when you know that you're not safe, your body is just like, no, you can't make a baby right now.
00:33:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:33:37
Speaker
Like in general, like women would, in order for us to want to have sex, we have to feel safe.
00:33:42
Speaker
We have to feel cared for.
00:33:43
Speaker
We have to feel secure in the relationship and have energy for it.
00:33:47
Speaker
If we're exhausted, we're,
00:33:49
Speaker
That's when your body's like, no, you've got way too much other stuff going on.
00:33:53
Speaker
You can't handle carrying a baby right now.
00:33:54
Speaker
And that's when your libido drops, right?
00:33:56
Speaker
So men out there, if their wife isn't interested in having sex with them, there are things that you can do.
00:34:03
Speaker
Making her feel safe, being more attractive to her, making her feel secure.
00:34:07
Speaker
But making her feel wanted and not just a maid.
00:34:10
Speaker
Exactly.
00:34:11
Speaker
Like make her feel like a woman and not just a servant.
00:34:13
Speaker
Right.
00:34:14
Speaker
We're getting off track.
00:34:15
Speaker
So, so the, the point of the entire conversation was just saying, don't over, don't over praise men for doing very, very minimum things.
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah, and don't fucking use sex as a currency, okay?
00:34:26
Speaker
As a bargaining tip.
00:34:27
Speaker
As a bargaining chip.
00:34:28
Speaker
Only have sex when you want to have sex.
00:34:30
Speaker
Sex is considered a reward to men.
00:34:33
Speaker
Oh, and the other solution on the topic of rewards is intermittent rewards.
00:34:37
Speaker
This might sound a little bit unethical, but honestly, when you only reward someone intermittently...
00:34:44
Speaker
you'll actually get, it's actually more motivating than giving a consistent reward.
00:34:50
Speaker
Like there's a study about pigeons where when there's a button and if they press the button, they get a treat.
00:34:56
Speaker
And they found out that when you only give them the treat, like 50% of the time, that's when the pigeon would just go crazy, like pressing the button, pressing the button, like ding, ding, ding, because it creates the same effect in the brain as gambling.
00:35:10
Speaker
That's why people get addicted to gambling is the intermittent reward, right?
00:35:13
Speaker
So if you want a guy to do something, a good way to get him to do it more consistently is actually by, is through intermittent reward.
00:35:21
Speaker
My point being that like excessive praise is ineffective.
00:35:23
Speaker
You're actually better off like scaling back the praise and making it less frequent, not more.
00:35:28
Speaker
And it's less energy to
Strategic Communication
00:35:29
Speaker
you.
00:35:29
Speaker
But honestly, like the best solution to all this is knowing your worth.
00:35:32
Speaker
Like you are the prize.
00:35:34
Speaker
Your presence and your attention alone is his reward.
00:35:38
Speaker
I find a fawning response, that excessive praise response usually comes from a person who is in a subordinate role.
00:35:44
Speaker
And you have to remember that you're a queen and it's his job to impress you.
00:35:48
Speaker
So the third mistake that women often make when they're trying to communicate or influence a man's behavior is by not being strategic in your interactions with men.
00:35:58
Speaker
And this one is pretty broad, but what I'm referring to is just this tendency that most people go through life being largely unconscious in their communication.
00:36:09
Speaker
You know, just like there's a stimulus and then they respond.
00:36:12
Speaker
It's just, you know, something makes you mad, you express anger.
00:36:15
Speaker
Something makes you upset, you express, you emote sadness.
00:36:19
Speaker
I would recommend women to learn to be responsive instead of reactive.
00:36:24
Speaker
And so when you're interacting with men, always be mindful of your objective.
00:36:27
Speaker
Like, what is your goal?
00:36:29
Speaker
are your actions conducive to achieving that goal?
00:36:32
Speaker
You know, are you going about this in a way that's going to, even if you're right, here's the thing, are your actions, are you going about this in a way that's going to get you the result that you want?
00:36:41
Speaker
I had a friend the other day tell me that she wanted to bring her dad with her to therapy.
00:36:47
Speaker
And I was like, immediately I knew this would be a bad idea.
00:36:50
Speaker
Like her dad was kind of a deadbeat when she was younger.
00:36:52
Speaker
She didn't have much of a relationship.
00:36:53
Speaker
And now that they're adults,
00:36:55
Speaker
they kind of go for dinner sometimes.
00:36:57
Speaker
They go to the gym sometimes.
00:36:59
Speaker
They have some of whatever relationship now as adults.
00:37:02
Speaker
But his abandonment of her when she was younger caused a lot of, you know, issues for her, a lot of trauma.
00:37:08
Speaker
She has, you know, I guess what most people call like daddy issues or whatever, not in a funny way, in a very sad way, actually.
00:37:17
Speaker
And so, him being a debut when she was younger really, really emotionally impacted her.
00:37:21
Speaker
And so, she's been going to
00:37:22
Speaker
therapy about it and she told me like I want to take my dad to therapy and I want to like I just want to let it all out you know because every time she tries to talk about the ways that his abandonment hurt her he either changes the subject or he tries to turn it back on her blame the mom or you know whatever anything to avoid taking accountability for the fact that he abandoned her when she was a kid
00:37:44
Speaker
And so she's like, I want to like take him to my therapist's office and I just want to like let it all out.
00:37:48
Speaker
I want to, I don't want to have a moderator there.
00:37:51
Speaker
Like she basically thought the therapist was just going to be there to be a moderator to help navigate this conversation.
00:37:57
Speaker
And immediately I'm thinking like, this is a bad idea.
00:37:59
Speaker
And I asked her like, okay, like, what do you want to get out of this?
00:38:03
Speaker
And she's like, I just want him to know.
00:38:06
Speaker
And I'm like, why?
00:38:08
Speaker
Like, what are you going to get from that?
00:38:09
Speaker
Why do you want him to know?
00:38:11
Speaker
And she's, she can't, she couldn't explain why.
00:38:13
Speaker
She's just like, I just, I'm just angry and I want him to know.
00:38:16
Speaker
And he's just not getting it.
00:38:18
Speaker
And like, we kind of talk back and forth and ask her, are you willing to cut him off?
00:38:22
Speaker
Because if you have this conversation with him, understand, like, it's going to make things really awkward if you want to keep like going to the gym and like having dinner with him and stuff.
00:38:29
Speaker
Right.
00:38:30
Speaker
What is your goal?
00:38:30
Speaker
Like, do you want to cut him off?
00:38:32
Speaker
No, she doesn't want to cut him off.
00:38:34
Speaker
Her goal is she wants to repair her relationship with her father and get closer with him.
00:38:38
Speaker
She didn't want to accept the fact that yelling at him for an hour while the therapist moderates it isn't going to be conducive to that.
00:38:45
Speaker
So we kind of talked back and forth.
00:38:47
Speaker
She ended up realizing like, yeah, okay, maybe I'm going to go about this in a different way.
00:38:52
Speaker
Because taking him to her therapist's office to just be angry at him isn't going to achieve...
00:38:56
Speaker
her goal, right?
00:38:58
Speaker
So you have to be more mindful of like, what is your goal in this conversation?
00:39:02
Speaker
How are you going to go about achieving that?
00:39:04
Speaker
The idea is to, when you're having interactions with men, keep in the forefront of your mind, what do I need and what do I want out of this situation?
00:39:14
Speaker
And secondly, what's the likelihood I'm going to get it, right?
00:39:18
Speaker
I feel like those are the two things.
00:39:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:20
Speaker
Like be honest with yourself and
00:39:23
Speaker
about yourself and the other person.
00:39:24
Speaker
Like, is this going to work?
00:39:26
Speaker
It seems in the situation with your friend, she was more or less venting.
00:39:31
Speaker
She just wanted someone to be present so that she could vent all the things that she was feeling, thinking that would somehow, I want to say, make her feel better.
00:39:40
Speaker
or get her feelings across to her dad, which apparently maybe her points were not being fully taken seriously by her dad outside of the context of a therapist.
00:39:49
Speaker
But the question is, would a therapist actually be able to change that aspect of
Men's Late Realizations
00:39:55
Speaker
her dad?
00:39:55
Speaker
And would going to a therapist and just venting all your frustrations actually, will that actually benefit you?
00:40:01
Speaker
Will that actually make you feel better?
00:40:03
Speaker
And the answer is,
00:40:04
Speaker
It's, you know, seemingly from the, from an outsider seems probably no and no, just from what we know about low value men.
00:40:09
Speaker
They just, they just fundamentally don't care.
00:40:11
Speaker
Right.
00:40:12
Speaker
Like dragging them in front of a therapist isn't likely to change his behavior.
00:40:18
Speaker
Like I know her dad and I know how it's going to go down.
00:40:20
Speaker
He's just going to get defensive.
00:40:21
Speaker
He's probably going to storm out of the therapist's office.
00:40:23
Speaker
So it'll be a waste of the hour, a waste for money.
00:40:27
Speaker
He's not going to admit fault.
00:40:28
Speaker
You know, he's not going to apologize.
00:40:30
Speaker
Here's what she wants is an apology.
00:40:33
Speaker
And she wants him to like make up for all the fact, all the things that he didn't do when she was a kid.
00:40:38
Speaker
Which he's not going to, he can't, well, first of all, he may not apologize.
00:40:42
Speaker
And even, even if he does, it may not be sincere.
00:40:45
Speaker
And then, yeah, the last point, they can't make up for all the time that he missed when she was a kid.
00:40:49
Speaker
It's over now.
00:40:50
Speaker
Exactly.
00:40:51
Speaker
Like, the best, and here's the thing, like, I can tell he definitely feels bad about, and this is just, like, what men are like, right?
00:40:57
Speaker
Like, they might feel bad about something, they might try to, like, make up for it later in life.
00:41:01
Speaker
And even if it's, like, you know, you can decide for yourself if it's too late and decide you don't want to deal with that, right?
00:41:07
Speaker
I can tell that he feels bad about it and he is making up by, you know, spending time with her now and trying to make it up to her and...
00:41:15
Speaker
He's trying to buy her forgiveness.
00:41:19
Speaker
So the problem with that, I even have with men who do that, is now they want to come back when it costs them way less personal sacrifice, right?
00:41:26
Speaker
Because she's an adult.
00:41:26
Speaker
She can take care of herself.
00:41:27
Speaker
She doesn't need nearly as much as her father as...
00:41:32
Speaker
She would have as a child.
00:41:33
Speaker
And so a lot of these guys get old, start feeling their own mortality, and then suddenly want to do like a quick like Hail Mary towards the end of their life.
00:41:41
Speaker
So they're not destitute alone when they're old and decrepit.
00:41:44
Speaker
So you still have to question his motives there, even if he's putting in seemingly doing performative effort to try to make up for lost time.
00:41:53
Speaker
Yeah.
00:41:54
Speaker
I mean, I think that he just knows he's getting old and he's just looking for a free nurse.
00:41:58
Speaker
Right.
00:41:58
Speaker
Right.
00:41:59
Speaker
So, you know, he spent his, you know, 20s and 30s and 40s just fucking around and being like a deadbeat.
00:42:07
Speaker
And now he's going back and being like, crap, like, you know, I have all these kids and now, you know, nobody's talking to me.
00:42:13
Speaker
They all hate me and none of them want to be bothered.
00:42:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:16
Speaker
And they all hate me.
00:42:17
Speaker
And none of them are going to, you know, he's thinking like, oh, do I want to be sitting in an old folks home being one of those guys that like nobody visits, you know, that never gets visitors?
00:42:25
Speaker
Probably will be.
00:42:26
Speaker
So that's pretty much what he's doing.
00:42:28
Speaker
He's trying to buy her forgiveness.
00:42:30
Speaker
And I'm like trying to tell her that.
00:42:32
Speaker
It's like, I love her to death.
00:42:34
Speaker
Like she's one of my closest friends, honestly.
00:42:36
Speaker
And, but there are moments, you know, sometimes you're talking to your friends and they're being a little bit of a pick me and it's like,
00:42:42
Speaker
you know, I'm trying to communicate this in a way that's going to get the result that I want to, which is for her to be honest with herself about what her father's capable of doing and what his motivations likely are.
00:42:54
Speaker
Anyways, that's a sidetrack.
00:42:55
Speaker
But my point being, like, you can't just, like, emote at men.
00:42:59
Speaker
You can't just, like, vent at them.
00:43:00
Speaker
them.
00:43:00
Speaker
Even if you've had a bad day in general, like other people don't exist to be your emotional punching bags, like male or female.
00:43:06
Speaker
Like if you're having a bad day and you're feeling bad, like save that for the therapist's office or find some kind of healthy coping mechanism or something like that so that you can deal with those feelings, but it's not healthy to go to the P and other people do this to me all the time.
00:43:19
Speaker
It drives me crazy where like, you know, your loved ones don't exist to be your emotional punching bag.
00:43:23
Speaker
If you're feeling bad, deal with it.
00:43:25
Speaker
Don't put it on them.
00:43:26
Speaker
So, but let's just say you're angry at your partner.
00:43:29
Speaker
Like, you're not mad about work.
00:43:30
Speaker
You're not mad about something else.
00:43:31
Speaker
You're actually angry at something that your partner did.
00:43:33
Speaker
I'd say one of the most common ones is, you know, nagging or, you know, repeating yourself, basically.
00:43:39
Speaker
And nagging, I mean, when women nag, it's because you want your man to do something.
00:43:46
Speaker
And he's just not doing it.
00:43:47
Speaker
And so you think if I say it again, two, three, four, five, 10 times, then maybe he'll get it.
00:43:52
Speaker
And he won't.
00:43:54
Speaker
Here's the thing, like with nagging, the more you repeat yourself, he's just going to tune you out.
00:44:00
Speaker
And he's just going to learn that your word doesn't matter and that he can continue to ignore you with no consequences.
00:44:07
Speaker
Nagging is basically what happens when the woman is just like, she wants him to do something, but she's too spineless to leave.
00:44:13
Speaker
Like you hear all these stories of my wife divorced me because I didn't do the dishes.
00:44:16
Speaker
And it's not just because of the dishes, right?
00:44:18
Speaker
Like, she was probably saying, like, this bothers me, this bothers me, this bothers me, this bothers me, and he just ignored her.
00:44:23
Speaker
And by the end of it, they always act blindsided, right?
00:44:26
Speaker
Like, they always act like, this came out of nowhere!
00:44:29
Speaker
Even if his wife was crying every single day for 20 years, he'll be like, this came out of nowhere!
00:44:34
Speaker
And the reason why they say that is because it wasn't that they didn't know that she was unhappy, it's that they didn't think that she would ever actually leave.
00:44:42
Speaker
The solution that I want to suggest is don't nag men.
00:44:45
Speaker
It's a waste of your emotional energy.
00:44:47
Speaker
It's just teaching him that your needs don't matter.
00:44:49
Speaker
Your word doesn't matter.
00:44:50
Speaker
Solution is the first time, ask nicely, introduce a boundary and imply consequences.
00:44:56
Speaker
And if it happens again, you don't even say anything.
00:44:58
Speaker
You just implement the consequences.
00:45:00
Speaker
That's it.
00:45:00
Speaker
So let's say, you know, you keep nagging him to pick up his shoes or put away his laundry or something like that.
00:45:05
Speaker
Instead of picking it up for him and asking him to do it next time, because picking it up for him just teaches him that if he falls through, you're just going to pick up the slack.
00:45:14
Speaker
Just stop picking up his shit.
00:45:16
Speaker
Stop doing his laundry.
00:45:17
Speaker
Stop giving him positive attention.
00:45:19
Speaker
And if he doesn't learn his lesson, then leave.
Enforcing Consequences
00:45:21
Speaker
I saw this so much when I used to volunteer at the homeless shelter where the staff would just be nagging, oh, please, can you wash up after yourself?
00:45:32
Speaker
Please tidy up after yourself.
00:45:33
Speaker
And it's just like they never got better.
00:45:35
Speaker
If anything, it got worse because they knew there was no consequence.
00:45:39
Speaker
And this was a shelter that was pretty much 99% male.
00:45:44
Speaker
And they just knew that nothing would happen.
00:45:46
Speaker
So if you are going to make a request, there needs to be a consequence if it's not followed through.
00:45:53
Speaker
Apparently the staff there never got the memo, but hey-ho.
00:45:56
Speaker
And tying it back to desire for gain and fear of loss, the thing that men have to gain from ignoring you is that they don't have to do as much work, right?
00:46:04
Speaker
Like, this is the thing that is often left out is that men actually benefit from ignoring women, from ignoring our needs, because it's effort.
00:46:11
Speaker
And, you know, all humans would rather if, like, here's the thing, all people...
00:46:16
Speaker
If you could get the same result with less effort, would you do it?
00:46:20
Speaker
Like, or would you choose the high effort or the low effort way?
00:46:22
Speaker
If you could get the same result, you choose the one that's less effort.
00:46:25
Speaker
And so you have to make it costly for them to do it the way that you don't want.
00:46:31
Speaker
If they have the option between like doing the dishes and their wife talks to them nicely, then they're going to go with that over, you know, not doing the dishes and their wife leaving them because if she left, that would make his life more difficult.
00:46:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:43
Speaker
So the strategy here, kind of like to wrap up what you're saying is, is to one, like if you communicate, have that communicate be enforced by either some kind of consequence behind it, or like, you don't even have to frame it like, Oh, giving him an ultimatum.
00:47:00
Speaker
Uh, uh, if you ever watched like reality TV shows, there's always like some woman trying to give this guy some ultimatum who just clearly does not give a fuck at all.
00:47:08
Speaker
Have you ever watched that stuff?
00:47:10
Speaker
Like, I'm going to go confront him about his cheating or giving him an ultimatum.
00:47:16
Speaker
If he doesn't marry me today, I'm walking away.
00:47:18
Speaker
Like nobody cares.
00:47:19
Speaker
Right.
00:47:20
Speaker
But, um,
00:47:22
Speaker
Being strategic in interactions with men means really, really focusing on what you're feeling.
00:47:29
Speaker
And sometimes if they're a type of guy that actually responds to what you're feeling, then you can express how you're feeling and that's good enough.
00:47:37
Speaker
If they're the type of guy that needs some kind of pushing or prodding or needs some kind of objective reason...
00:47:44
Speaker
Although we just kind of say if you're not if you need objective reasons to do things like it's pretty much a bad sign with men because it means that they're not responding to the fact that shit just makes you unhappy.
00:47:52
Speaker
And if you're in a relationship and you should just do things because they make the other person happy.
00:47:56
Speaker
Yeah, like a high value men is motivated like for him making you happy is a gain to him.
00:48:02
Speaker
He sees that as a bonus.
00:48:03
Speaker
Yeah, because it's you and him versus a problem, right?
00:48:06
Speaker
It shouldn't be like you versus him, right?
00:48:09
Speaker
It should be, these are the things that need to get done.
00:48:12
Speaker
These are the things that I need to be happy in a relationship and in my life.
00:48:16
Speaker
And the answer should always be, how can I help you?
00:48:19
Speaker
Right.
00:48:19
Speaker
Instead of dismissive of it, saying, I don't need to do this or trying to figure out reasons why he shouldn't have to do things because you didn't do things.
00:48:27
Speaker
Right.
00:48:28
Speaker
This is the problem with so many, many, many, many men is that they feel like everything that they are, everything that they do has to have some kind of justification.
00:48:39
Speaker
Otherwise it's invalid.
00:48:40
Speaker
Right.
00:48:41
Speaker
It's never enough to be like, well, just make me happy.
00:48:42
Speaker
Right.
00:48:43
Speaker
Right.
00:48:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:44
Speaker
Well, because, you know, a low value man making you happy is not seen as motivating.
00:48:50
Speaker
It's not high in his priority list.
00:48:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:52
Speaker
It's not a priority, right?
00:48:53
Speaker
For a high value man who really does care about you, you know, the reward is seeing the smile on your face is, you know, you feeling safe and secure and so on.
00:49:03
Speaker
And so that is inherently rewarding to him.
00:49:06
Speaker
A low value man who doesn't see any value in making you happy is never going to make you happy, no matter how much you try to negotiate or poke and prod or compromise or whatever.
00:49:18
Speaker
As a side, like compromising, I mean, I also have like this whole list.
00:49:22
Speaker
Compromising is another one of those, like, it usually just means the woman is acquiescing to whatever the man wants.
00:49:28
Speaker
You know, never make, you know, not just in your relationships with men, but, you know, never make concessions unless you're actually getting something out of it.
00:49:36
Speaker
Compromise isn't just like, okay, we'll do what you want.
00:49:38
Speaker
Yeah, and be careful that he's not trying to move the Overton window, because they'll do that too.
00:49:42
Speaker
They'll pick something, like, absolutely outrageous and then try to make it seem like it's the equivalent of what you're arguing for.
00:49:48
Speaker
He'd be like, well, can you just pick up your socks off the floor?
00:49:50
Speaker
He's like, well, you didn't give me anal sex for three nights in a row, so...
00:49:55
Speaker
And they'll just try to make it seem like that's the equivalent.
00:49:57
Speaker
So, I mean, there's just so many ways.
00:49:59
Speaker
False equivalency.
00:50:00
Speaker
That's another way that... False equivalency.
00:50:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:03
Speaker
We'll do another episode on more like low-value male manipulation tactics because I think that's an important overall discussion.
00:50:10
Speaker
But when you're going into your communications with men and trying to be strategic, watch out for these things and keep your goals in mind.
00:50:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:50:21
Speaker
And a lot of these, I'm not even just talking about your boyfriend or your husband.
00:50:25
Speaker
I'm also talking about, like, your boss or your coworkers or your dad or, you know, other male family members and so on.
00:50:33
Speaker
Because, you know, we say, oh, if he's not doing this and that, just leave.
00:50:37
Speaker
Well, you can't just, like, break up with your dad, right?
00:50:39
Speaker
Like, you're probably going to have to see them at family gatherings and so on.
00:50:42
Speaker
So...
00:50:43
Speaker
You know, sometimes it's not, you know, just leave isn't always an option.
00:50:46
Speaker
Sometimes you do have to interact with these people, whether you like it or not.
00:50:49
Speaker
And even if you have to interact with those people, some of these strategies can work to at least like minimize losses for you and like maximize rewards as much as you can.
Emotional Self-Discipline and Cold Anger
00:50:59
Speaker
Oh, and one last thing about, because you, Ro, you mentioned confronting.
00:51:02
Speaker
Like, I'm going to go confront him about his cheating.
00:51:05
Speaker
That's another terrible idea.
00:51:06
Speaker
You know, confronting him isn't going to make him, like, un-cheat you.
00:51:10
Speaker
So let's make that a fourth strategy, but, like, the fourth mistake we're going to make is, like, confronting men for the sake of confronting them.
00:51:17
Speaker
Dr. Romney has a really great video about why you should never confront a narcissist.
00:51:21
Speaker
And I think it applies to just all shitty people in general.
00:51:25
Speaker
Like, what are you going to get out of it, right?
00:51:28
Speaker
Nothing.
00:51:29
Speaker
Like, it's just going to give them an opportunity for them to lie to you and manipulate you and frustrate you and waste your energy and make your head spin.
00:51:36
Speaker
And also, the other thing is that just like, you're just showing them your cards.
00:51:41
Speaker
So, you know, it's almost better for them to not know that you know, you know, that's when it's like they start throwing hands, you know, that's when they get more aggressive and they go nuclear.
00:51:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:52
Speaker
I've got an example of the confrontation thing, actually.
00:51:55
Speaker
I was dating a guy last year and he did something really egregious.
00:51:59
Speaker
We were talking about it, I think, a few weeks, just like afterwards, where we randomly, like, reconnected for a bit.
00:52:05
Speaker
And he kept... He was so confused as to why I was not basically just cussing him out.
00:52:10
Speaker
And he was almost, like, insulting himself, almost, like, saying stuff like... So he was saying stuff like, oh, you know, did you tell your friends about that dickhead who did, you know...
00:52:21
Speaker
just like xyz to you and i was like no so he was really thrown off by the fact that i was literally not cussing him out because that's that's clearly what he expected i would do and obviously i was really i mean you know i'd cussed him out to like my therapist and anyone who'd listen but i didn't tell him that because i didn't want to give him the satisfaction of you know knowing that he really got to me and that really threw him off so he started basically insulting himself um
00:52:48
Speaker
um basically reveal he's probably doing that to try to elicit your sympathy you want he wanted you to jump in and be like no baby you're not a dickhead like you know i forgive you i did yeah but i didn't i mean i didn't like correct him but i was just like no i didn't and he was and he literally said like i'm trying to work out why um you know i don't understand why you're not angry because i just refused to show him that i was angry
00:53:14
Speaker
Yeah, no, that's smart.
00:53:15
Speaker
Like, ladies, you gotta have emotional self-discipline when dealing with guys.
00:53:19
Speaker
You know, vent to your friends, vent to your therapist, you know, vent to the stranger down the street, but don't send him paragraphs.
00:53:27
Speaker
Just don't do it.
00:53:28
Speaker
Yeah, the typing in paragraphs, it's like, you're not gonna make him feel bad.
00:53:32
Speaker
If anything, he's just going to see that and he's going to have that like smug sense of satisfaction that he provoked a reaction out of you, right?
00:53:39
Speaker
And he'll probably save you as like the crazy chick in quotation marks in his phone to show to his friends.
00:53:44
Speaker
He'll probably like screenshot it and put it in his like group chats and be like, haha, look at this girl who's obsessed with me, you know?
00:53:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:51
Speaker
Oh, she's crazy.
00:53:52
Speaker
Circling back to like desire for gain, fear of loss, like even negative attention, men weirdly seem to see that as a gain.
00:53:59
Speaker
They see that as a reward.
00:54:01
Speaker
You know, the ultimate consequence that you as a woman can impose on men is a lack of attention or just ignoring them or withholding your presence.
00:54:11
Speaker
Or apathy.
00:54:12
Speaker
Just straight apathy.
00:54:14
Speaker
Or just complete apathy.
00:54:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:15
Speaker
Because like men want women to...
00:54:19
Speaker
Men want women's attention, positive or negative.
00:54:22
Speaker
And they want women to react to them as well, to what they're doing.
00:54:26
Speaker
They want that reaction because it signals to them that you're invested in the situation or in them.
00:54:33
Speaker
And when you don't give them that reaction, it really throws them off balance.
00:54:37
Speaker
Like some of, if you were to remain just completely stoic in front of men, you
00:54:45
Speaker
it will start to come out just how... They'll start goading you almost just to get a reaction out of you, like what happened to me.
00:54:52
Speaker
And when you don't bite, it will really confuse them.
00:54:55
Speaker
Because they don't know what you're thinking as well.
00:54:57
Speaker
Like, he was clearly almost... You know, in my situation, he was clearly trying to guess what I was thinking, but I wasn't telling him if he was right or wrong.
00:55:05
Speaker
And that really bothered him when you don't know what someone else is thinking, especially when you screwed them over in a massive way, and he knew that as well.
00:55:12
Speaker
Yeah, I find, like...
00:55:14
Speaker
You know, men are so used to women just, like, emoting.
00:55:17
Speaker
And so here's the thing.
00:55:19
Speaker
Like, men are not scared of women's anger the same way that women are afraid of men's anger because men's anger is, like, scary and violent.
00:55:26
Speaker
Women's anger, like, men see it as, like, amusing.
00:55:28
Speaker
They don't actually feel like they're in any physical danger.
00:55:32
Speaker
I find, like, cold anger...
00:55:35
Speaker
to be much, much more effective for influencing men.
00:55:38
Speaker
Like, if you just blow up at him, he's just going to dismiss you as crazy, and he's just going to, like, ignore you, and he uses it as an ego boost.
00:55:45
Speaker
When you have this, like, sort of cold anger, it almost, like, switches some part in his brain, and you become, like, this cold and dispassionate mother that he wants to win the approval from.
00:55:55
Speaker
So, yeah, like, that's why, like, emotional self-discipline, ladies, like, highly recommend it.
00:55:59
Speaker
So just to wrap it up, it's important to be strategic in your communications with men.
00:56:05
Speaker
You have to understand the sort of power dynamics at play, the different socialization that men and women have had, and therefore our different motivations.
00:56:13
Speaker
And first of all, like have emotional self-discipline, understand that appealing to men's empathy or morality is not going to be as effective as appealing to desire for gain and fear of loss.
00:56:26
Speaker
And don't excessively praise men for bare minimum behavior because it's just not going to get you the result that you want.
00:56:33
Speaker
When interacting with men, you always have to be mindful of your goal and whether your actions are being conducive to helping you achieve that goal.
Conclusion and Call to Action
00:56:40
Speaker
All right.
00:56:41
Speaker
And that's our show.
00:56:41
Speaker
Follow us on Twitter at fem.strat, as well as visit our website, thefemaledatingstrategy.com.
00:56:46
Speaker
And if you'd like to hear some bonus content, go to patreon.com forward slash thefemaledatingstrategy.
00:56:51
Speaker
Thanks for listening, queens.
00:56:53
Speaker
And for all you scrotes out there, make sure you invest in your kids early so you don't end up alone in a pool of your own dribble.
00:56:59
Speaker
Die mad.
00:56:59
Speaker
See you next week.