Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Story Work in Your Marriage: The Hope, The Challenges, and The Power
56 Plays23 days ago
A frequent theme of this lil' ol' podcast is that having a more honest, compassionate, and kind regard for your own story of formation in your family of origin can be a huge source of greater intimacy and kindness in your marriage.
But how exactly does that work?
What does it look like in practice for both people in a marriage to explore their stories, together?
What are the ideal circumstances and commitments that a couple would want to have before going into such a process? And what might they hope to gain if the effort bears fruit? Is it just a bunch of self-absorbed "navel gazing" or blame-shifting to our parents for our present day problems? Or, might there be something powerful, delicate, and maybe even holy at work?
In this first episode of a three part series, Chris and Wendy share intimately about what doing story work has looked like through the last 20+ years of their marriage. And as you will see, it's been quite a journey.... They also describe what can happen when a couple either works with Wendy as their counselor to do story work for the benefit of their marriage, or decides to engage in a marriage story workshop or a one-on-one couples' intensive. No matter where you are in your marriage, there will be something of goodness, mystery, and wonder to be gained just for a half hour or so of your listening time. Enjoy!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Surviving Saturday
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to Surviving Saturday, a podcast about holding on to hope in the midst of life's difficulties, disappointments, and dark seasons. Times like that remind us of the agony and despair the followers of Jesus felt on the Saturday of Easter weekend, in between the Friday on which he was crucified and the Sunday on which he rose from the dead.
Embracing Pain and Hope
00:00:23
Speaker
That Sunday forever changed the way that humans can relate to God. But what does it look like to be honest about the very real pain we experience in the in-between? To fervently cling to hope in the God who promised us His peace and His presence at times when He feels distant or even cruel.
Meet the Hosts
00:00:40
Speaker
I'm Wendy Osborne, a licensed counselor in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I'm her husband Chris, a marriage mediator, conflict resolution coach, and trauma-informed story work coach. Join us each episode for authentic conversations about how life not turning out as we'd expected has created the contextual soil for the growth of a tenacious hope in the resurrection and in a God who is still making all things new.
Influence of Guests on Marriage Views
00:01:07
Speaker
Hello, Chris. Why, hello, Wendy. We are back. It's been a while since it's just been us. It has. We've had a fun run of some really cool guests that we've been really honored to get spend time with. And so we prompted our thinking about all different kinds of stuff.
00:01:26
Speaker
Yeah. So the latest conversations among them have been on marriage And how can the idea of the technique of story work help marriages?
Story Work in Marriage
00:01:42
Speaker
And so that led us to start thinking about what exactly the purpose of marriage is. Well, and I think it's been a real privilege just to to interact with Dan, Allender, and then with the calls because they've been influential, I think, for us, not just in um theory and in, oh, we read this and they, you know, describe this well. That is true.
00:02:09
Speaker
But because we've experienced story work with them, like their care, both of them and in two different settings and different settings for both of us even has been really, i think we've pointed out one of the most transformative things we've experienced for our marriage. When you say, would you agree? yeah Absolutely.
00:02:28
Speaker
um Not that anything that we learned or experienced before was bad or incomplete, It's just as as Dan says, there's always more. There's always more you can learn. There's always a deeper level of intimacy you can reach and definitely deeper your understanding of your own story um to help ah deal with how you show up and and how things show up in your in your marriage. but um But you raised a good question, though, to start with before even you even have to think about how does story work benefit a marriage?
00:02:56
Speaker
It kind of you know raises the question, well, what's what's the point of marriage? What do we think marriage is
Purpose and Misconceptions of Marriage
00:03:01
Speaker
about anyway? It's probably important to establish that first. And spoiler alert, I think it is about learning to love better and more genuinely.
00:03:12
Speaker
okay But i think that many explanations that I have... thought define the meaning of marriage or have been told through the years include um that I will never be lonely again.
00:03:29
Speaker
Yes, I would say that's probably, i I don't know if I would have articulated it that way, but um I really felt like, oh my gosh, that's why you get married. You found the person who quote unquote completes you. There's a whole famous Jerry Gwireman saying, you know, oh, you had me at hello and you complete me, yeah which is, ah you know, there's that that idea of, oh, I'm i'm alone.
00:03:53
Speaker
There's this missing piece who's out there that will complete me. um the The idea of a soulmate. And if if we're Christians, you can't leave me. So then I have my person all the time.
00:04:04
Speaker
Yes. And so I'm never left alone. I'm never left to fend for myself. um I'm complete. So that's one. And one of the things that the the loneliness piece I think was surprising too is um we're not talking about you'll be lonely in marriage because your spouse is terrible or horrible.
00:04:21
Speaker
there may be things that happen. Like I remember, remember the time we were in the hospital for like a week when you had pancreatitis. Oh yeah. I mean like there was, you know, was it that lonely? Yes.
00:04:32
Speaker
Because I was there with you and you were knocked out on drugs. Yeah. yeah And so, Which felt really great, by the way. That's right. i remember that was being a very interesting moment watching you discover Dilaudid. Can I have more?
00:04:47
Speaker
um But if I had the expectation of fulfillment from you in general, well, that week, it's not going to happen. And it's not your fault. It's not you doing anything bad.
00:04:58
Speaker
You just don't anticipate the life circumstances that will happen or maybe a A family member member has an extended illness. There's all kinds of things that they get in the way of just because I'm married now, I'm going to be happy. Now going to not be alone.
00:05:13
Speaker
Yes. Yes. um I think another is it's a way to be sexually fulfilled, to be pure, um to do the right thing, but to be able to enjoy sex.
00:05:28
Speaker
Yes. And another place where it's probably oversold. And certainly I know what I heard growing up in 1980s purity culture, you know, save yourself for marriage. yeah Don't have sex as a high schooler, as a teenager and all.
00:05:44
Speaker
um And the promise sort of was when you get married, you'll have sex and it's exactly as God designed it and it's fulfilling. It'll be so amazing. Yes. what I was told.
00:05:55
Speaker
And then when you encounter reality of actually it doesn't work that way. It certainly doesn't work how it's been portrayed for us in the movies, many of which were made by. men you can tell because they have very unrealistic depictions of what it takes to be in the mood for sex what that the difference is in how different people not just men and women but just different people may you know and engage in sex differently and all yeah um but so that was sort of a ah but but definitely I think that's why a lot of
00:06:25
Speaker
My peers and I, we got married so young. It's like, well, we that's that's how we get there. And then to discover, actually, it's challenging. It's sometimes painful to even learn, especially if you haven't had much experience. mean, there's all kinds of complications. We don't want to get too far down that money trail.
00:06:44
Speaker
um I think it's interesting also... Today's kids um or you know young adults, are they're viewing marriage differently. What would you say you see or hear as sort of they're Well, I'm curious what you're thinking of. Well, I'm thinking of how it, I think there's a lot of distrust in the institution of marriage. I think we've seen marriages fail.
00:07:06
Speaker
I would agree. They have grown up in an era in which you know more about the dirty laundry of not only celebrities, but people in the media, leaders. Including Christian leaders and Christian families. Very much so. And they know kind of, golly, that they they've sort of had all those myths that we came along ah you know and and we were influenced by. They've sort of all been busted.
00:07:31
Speaker
And the institution has somewhat been robbed of what is its value? What is it for? And so they're deferring, waiting, and yet having these, a lot of what we see out there, a lot of really committed relationships. And there's a desire for companionship and monogamy and and togetherness. But um are they going to, they don't care whether they have the church's stamp or the government's stamp.
00:07:55
Speaker
no There's definitely that. I know that in your legal practice, you've worked with quite a number of couples who have chosen the cohabitation route and they've lived together long-term, but chosen to not pursue marriage.
00:08:12
Speaker
That's right. And if they, uh, sort of my philosophy is if, if they don't try to buy property together, if they're just, you know, people who rent or they keep, sometimes when, when people go have it, they keep their property really separate and they like don't mix bank accounts. And they, they are very contractual about who does what.
00:08:30
Speaker
A lot of the time though, I've seen a lot of these cases recently where, um They have brought property together. They have started a business together. They've done ah've gotten more entangled. And then when they when they break up, it's a lot harder to disentangle because they don't have the protections of of you know marriage laws. or ah um So they can't ah they want to divide everything equally and there's no presumption that they will. Then they want to get into you know well who who paid what, who contributed, what what was our deal, what was our promise, and that gets really, really sticky.
00:08:59
Speaker
um But I think we are going to see a movement towards more, it is more somewhat of an economic transaction, whether you call it marriage or not. I have one client who, um They did not get married, but they have what they called some kind of commitment ceremony.
00:09:15
Speaker
And I don't know what exactly it was, but then so the the mom and they were having a kid together and the mom actually changed her name to the husband's name. So the kid would have the same name, but they didn't actually get married. They didn't get married. Yeah. I've never seen. she legally changed her name. Yeah. And so she has the same name, but they weren't married.
00:09:30
Speaker
Yeah. So there's, there's a lot of maybe confusion in this culture. around just following traditional marriage. Yeah. And you know, it doesn't help that Christians have a fairly high divorce rate as well.
00:09:46
Speaker
So this is true we haven't really given them a great reason to follow our model. One of the messages that we received early on, um was the idea that marriage, rather than being something that would make you happy, is a relationship rather that would make you holy.
00:10:07
Speaker
Yes. And I remember because although I loved God... I was not sure how much God really loved me. found that a really scary proposal um that he didn't really care if I was happy, which to me meant I think I equated with relationally safe.
00:10:30
Speaker
Um, and instead he wanted me to be holy, which felt like an ethereal notion to me. So wasn't really sure if I mattered in the equation. When you ethereal, can you say more about what mean? Like theoretical, maybe that's a better word. yeah Like he wanted me to be holy. I couldn't really nail down what that would mean for me as a person, except for I was supposed to be really, really, really good and become more and more and more good.
00:11:00
Speaker
But it didn't matter if my heart felt safe or my body felt safe in the relationship. Well, and I think the other thing that can be missed in that is it feels like this can almost become this form of sort of masochism of like, well, i'm not happy, but oh my gosh, I'm being made more holy. This suffering. Sort martyrdom. Almost a martyrdom. yeah And also, i think we're learning now as well.
00:11:25
Speaker
um We were just at a conference a couple of weeks ago talking about, you know, some, some places where people have been vulnerable to abusive relationships and some of the messages the church has sent that have um fostered that. And one is, you know, somebody may say a spouse is bringing, ah you know, to somebody in church or a counselor or something.
00:11:45
Speaker
um Hey, this is happening. This is harmful, hurtful. I don't like this. I'm not comfortable. And if we use that well, marriage isn't to make you happy, you know, it's to make you holy. yeah It sort of sends this message of, well, this is your suffering. This is your cross to bear. So he's an asshole when he comes home.
00:12:02
Speaker
You are going to be made more like Jesus for it. And that can become both a cover, but it also can become a way that an abuser, somebody who really is, you know, not becoming more Christ-like, who is trying to cause harm, they sort of hide behind that.
00:12:15
Speaker
You like, well, I'm just refining you. You know, they wouldn't necessarily say it that way, but they take all that sort attitude. And then then you have, very earnest victims of that abuse who really want to do the right thing.
00:12:28
Speaker
And they want to do what God has called them to do. And so they agreed to suffer what is actually abuse, thinking that is actually just them being made holy. So I've I've heard very painful stories and i yeah, i think we have to be careful about letting that be, um, a rationale for marriage unto itself.
00:12:51
Speaker
Does God want his people to grow in their ability to love and to become more Christlike? Yes. And there's just like people
Unrealistic Expectations in Marriage
00:13:00
Speaker
are complicated. So are marriage relationships.
00:13:02
Speaker
Yeah. And so um I think I definitely was vulnerable to the idea that marriage would would be a cure for loneliness. It would be a cure for um you know a place to release sexual energy, really, is sort of how it's phrased, which you looking back, and like, oh, why did we say it that way? Yeah. um and and And we've been reading some good materials that we'll probably share later a later episode about, you know, recapturing a vision for sex and sexuality that's not this yeah tension release thing.
00:13:34
Speaker
Yes. It's made for so much more than that. Yes. But I think ah we what we started realizing is that the expectations that we each brought in, expectations,
00:13:46
Speaker
had They came from somewhere. They came from messages that we got in the Christian circles we were in and the families we're in, but also just from the experiences we had. Does that sound fair? Absolutely.
00:13:56
Speaker
And I think we bring them into marriage even when they're not formed into words in our minds. I think that's the the trickiest part. Yeah, there is, um I think we were joking actually when we had Dan on about the idea of could we go back and and yeah redo our vows and be more explicit about yes um what we what what we thought we were getting into or what we thought we were vowing for, um but but do some correctives to that almost and make more realistic vows really. like um But so I think we also started realizing that, so we we bring in these expectations.
00:14:29
Speaker
And for me, it was, I think I also had a dynamic of, it was very familiar to me to care for, um ah you know, a woman's needs or girl's needs. um i sort of was the best friend guy.
00:14:44
Speaker
I was the person who listened. well we started out as best friends. That's right. That's right. But I had a series of relationships where I was this great listener And I was super supported. And i had learned to do that really well. My mom had essentially trained me to do that because I was kind of her caregiver a lot and the wake of my parents' you know chaotic marriage, separation, divorce, all that.
00:15:06
Speaker
So for me, i I really relish the idea of I'll be this really good caregiver. This is what gives me value. This is what gives me, um in a way, it gives me fulfillment. I wouldn't have said it that way.
00:15:18
Speaker
Uh, but that was definitely how i was operating. And so I think that was a big disappointment and frustration when we got married. And there were times I could not care for you. Either I had harmed you or I had missed you or somehow, or, or just wasn't going to work.
00:15:34
Speaker
And that would sort of make me almost, you know, feel like I was going crazy. Like I'm, I'm supposed to be good at this. This is how we got together. Cause we were best friends. Yeah. And for me to run into failure and not know how to fix a situation or to give you comfort, there are places where you you are dealing with something so deep you are inconsolable to a sense.
00:15:54
Speaker
Yeah. What did that feel like on that side for you? Well, you know, i chose you as a romantic partner and then agreed to marry you because you are an c incredibly safe friend.
00:16:07
Speaker
Mm-hmm. And i don't think at the time I was thinking in terms of the reality that romantic relationships had not been safe for me. But we were talking recently about people we dated when we were very young. Yeah.
00:16:24
Speaker
And I was actually cheated on quite a bit. Yes. that I had never put together how many times that story played out. And part of it was i was so committed to being good.
00:16:38
Speaker
that I could be like the good girl someone dated. And then they could have these like side hustles. These little flings. yeah yeah side Yeah. And so i paid a price for the way that I chose to engage in romantic relationships. But i experienced you as so different.
00:17:00
Speaker
But what I did not realize is that my heart had very different categories for friendships. and the intimacy of a romantic relationship or a husband. Okay. And how would you say that they were different?
00:17:14
Speaker
Well, I think a friend, you know, you were with for limited amounts of time and I could take what they could give and figure out the rest on my own. Yeah. but a husband for life, I think I came without without words Desperate to feel safe and protected in the most intimate parts of me. Yes.
00:17:43
Speaker
To never be lonely. <unk> and to have somebody that could, think, rescue me from all the emotional pain that was inside. And look, I wasn't aware of most of the emotional pain, but I knew that i needed something outside myself.
00:18:01
Speaker
Yes. I i would have said something similar is on the surface like that as well. I did not realize how much I was looking to to see emotional wounds and pain as well.
00:18:12
Speaker
I thought, oh, I'm showing up being being the the the romantic guy. You have those gestures. I think another thing that that did not serve as well also is since we dated primarily long distance other than the first you know month or so we got together yeah and then another month or so when we were engaged, I think we were long distance, yeah which meant very long distance when we, yeah, like six hours apart.
00:18:38
Speaker
And or was we like three or four it was about six. Yeah. When we got together, when it was time for a visit, you know, the rest of the world pretty much stopped. Yes. you yeah You're sticking from the other who's there. And so we were used to, oh my gosh, i may now because we're around each other, the world stops. yeah I orient everything towards you because that's what you do with your long distance.
00:18:58
Speaker
We had almost no experience of what does it look like to just get through life? yeah When are you going to go hang out with friends? And I'm not involved. When going to have time to yourself?
00:19:09
Speaker
yeah and i'm not you know we we we had no way of cultivating that so we get married and we have these different expectations uh and we've never been there before yes yes And so then disappointment comes in.
00:19:22
Speaker
Disappointment comes in. And I think that's a common theme that if it hasn't happened in your marriage, then, you know, you must be still picking the rice out of your hair. Okay. and And probably even then there are stories of, you know, we know too many people's stories of what you are, of disappointment on your wedding day, on your honeymoon, disappointment.
00:19:42
Speaker
Yeah. uh, when you get your first house established or whatever it is, if, if disappointment, it it will come at some point in time, uh, the high and the, um, intoxication of, I've been on the question. I found the one who loves me and, and, and I've won her heart and, and, and, oh, he really loves me. All that, that sort dissipates.
00:20:02
Speaker
Disappointment is going to show up. And, um, Our friends at the Barma Center, this was powerful for us to learn. i remember that, look, you you have disappointment. You're doing something with it. um And the I like how they captured it with a bunch of D words. You can deny it. Like, not really. No, everything's good. You know, um he's fine. Whatever.
00:20:19
Speaker
um You can demand, basically, hey, I want this to be different. And you can make it known. And you can make it known in more forceful ways, um either outwardly or just kind of by withholding, you know, and kind of pulling away if you don't get what you want.
00:20:32
Speaker
And then there's despair. What does that look like? Like giving up, it's cynicism, it's why bother, yes an excer it's futility. Not even going to try anymore. yeah And then sort of the extreme version of that is we can disconnect or disassociate. it's a little different from others because it's basically finding something else to put our life in. We're not explicitly saying, I'm so unfulfilled and disappointed here, I'll just go find life elsewhere. We just are doing it. yeah And sort of, it's kind of in a way combining. it can be work or hobbies or children. I mean, it can be anything. Yeah. That we choose over our spouse.
00:21:07
Speaker
Yes, exactly. um And so given that we've got to have, you know, marriage has to, I guess our starting place for what marriage is about. It can't be about preventing there from being disappointed because that's not to happen. Right. um Marriage maybe is better viewed as a crucible in which um God has us experience disappointment and then...
00:21:29
Speaker
At least I know my experience partly was it reorients my relationship to God. Like, what am I going to do with disappointment? What going to do either when you fail me or when I fail you?
00:21:40
Speaker
And I'm not sure which I experienced worse. They both were terrible. yeah And they both were not things I expected to happen. really at all right because we've been friendship friends and we didn't we didn't have a uh our contentious relationship yeah our dating relationship had no conflict in fact we didn't know what you're like i feel a little bit weird i kind of don't like what you've done we didn't know how to do that how to say that or whatever um so how would you kind of capture you know especially like when you're working with people but also for us what what was sort of a vision for what is the design of marriage and
00:22:14
Speaker
Well, I mean, like the spoiler alert I gave earlier, i think it is a route to becoming better lovers of people.
Growth through Story Work in Marriage
00:22:24
Speaker
Okay.
00:22:25
Speaker
And I would say specifically, it's helping one another move along the arc of redemption, which would mean helping each other become more of the man or the woman that God had in mind for us to be.
00:22:39
Speaker
Okay. And a piece of that, when I hear you say that, it's it's not about i will find the person who will help me feel loved. It's how will I become a person who loves well, again, not in a way that is selfless and and consumed. Like if if one person is loving well the other person is just taking, taking, taking, that's not healthy.
00:23:00
Speaker
Well, I don't think that if you're letting another person take and take, you're actually loving them. That's right. because you're not calling out the best in them. Yes. Um, you're enabling their, their immaturity.
00:23:14
Speaker
But, but I think that to become a person who loves better and better is a very painful and sacrificial process. Yes. I'm reminded in fact, of one of our favorite, um, kind of a, a storybook character sort of thing. And we heard it, uh,
00:23:30
Speaker
Somebody referred to it at a conference we were at recently, but um the Velveteen Ratman. Oh, yeah. do I remember hearing Tim Keller talk about years ago as well, but there's that passage about you know what happens when you're loved. Yeah. And basically when you're loved ah is- we become unrecognizable and You become right? And you become real. Yeah. usually yeah And the the character says, you know you kind of have your eyes sort of worn off and your hair is all- you know yeah you're You're basically the these stuffed animals. You're weak in the knees. Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:56
Speaker
But but you you become real and then you can't be ugly except to people who don't understand. do um But this idea of becoming a more um you a more more Christ-like in our love, I think we'd say too, that the beautiful thing about Jesus and what keeps me coming back to him and and and loving him and wanting to worship him, even even as i am questioning and puzzled by all the manifestations of Christianity today. I'll leave it at that. um People who who are saying and doing things in his name, Jesus himself,
00:24:29
Speaker
um is very challenging to any of us. yeah yeah Are you loving well? Look at this standard. And and we all go, well, there's there's places where maybe I've got grace, but no truth or truth, but no grace.
00:24:40
Speaker
We all are falling short. um And so if we have that idea that marriage is for the purpose of helping us to love better, and and and we do hope that we will experience love in that as well. It's kind of this weird sort of crucible thing.
00:24:56
Speaker
um So how would you describe then what a story work, um where the story work come in as a particular means to that end? Well, I think first we've got to learn what is behind our own failures to love.
00:25:12
Speaker
Okay. Okay. So like what has formed me um What is for me to self-protect in the ways I do? Yes. What has formed me to demand the things I do? Yes.
00:25:25
Speaker
What, what is it that I desire and how have I learned to get those desires met? Yes. And kind of taking it back to the idea of disappointment there, yeah there are some things that are disappointing, like to me and not you.
00:25:36
Speaker
Yeah. um Why do I have the particular disappointments that I do? Right. Like, like one just very basic example, but like, if we don't, talk for a period of time that that can impact you now that you're kind of working you're with people all day not as much but like when you were home and with the kids and I was working you're like can I talk to an adult yeah and you know and you're my person and all that and for me I'm like this is not a good thing but like because of ADD or whatever out of sight out of mind but doesn't mean out of heart like as soon as I'm back I'm like oh my gosh you're great
00:26:09
Speaker
And the fact that I haven't heard from you, it would be a long time before that bugged me. Like ah eventually I'm going to probably get, get, you know huh? i wonder what's going on. I haven't heard from you, but it would be a longer time before I didn't think about it.
00:26:21
Speaker
um And that's just because of the way that I was formed. Yeah. Not so good or bad. Right. Right. And something I would say you're working on. Yes. And so you notice when that out of sight, out of mind is not loving to me. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And we want to be more purposeful about when and how do we connect in a way that meets both of our yeah you know desires and even just stepping back to say, how much, yeah what do we desire?
00:26:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's first story work is a matter of what has, what are the experiences that have formed me, but how have they formed me to love the things I love, fear the things I fear, long for the things I long for, and fail to love other people.
00:27:12
Speaker
The second part of story work in the context of marriage is to learn to see your story through those similar lenses. So what has broken your heart?
00:27:24
Speaker
What has set you up to be unable to receive care and love, to long for care and love in certain ways. But i have to grieve the broken experiences of both my life and story and yours before we get to the life together.
00:27:46
Speaker
So i want us to kind of... um name where we're going here and kind of come back and unpack that concept. because I think that's really a powerful way of phrasing it.
00:27:56
Speaker
um I think a lot of people come to story work and and and and often come when they've tried a lot of other things um like we did early in our marriage. When we experienced conflict, our first instinct was,
00:28:12
Speaker
oh, well, we need we need tools. We need to learn how to fight people's energy. Learn how to fight fair. Learn how to fight better. And that is helpful. And I'm not knocking that as far as it goes. um But it did not um solve everything. and And there were times like we had read the books on fighting fair and we knew communication techniques and they were not accessible.
00:28:31
Speaker
Like we were not able to to get that part of our brain, our heart to to come ah to bear. um With a lot of other couples that we work with sometimes, ah so the need to do some kind of deeper healing shows up in conflict and conflict that's either recurrent, and they can count on if this topic comes up, they're going to have a fight.
00:28:53
Speaker
um And it may be, it's not very frequent, but it's super intense when it happens. Some couples that I've talked with are, we don't fight that much, but then when we did the wheels just completely came off. Yeah. um Some people come in come at story from a different place. They are um they're disconnected. They're, they're checked out. They're experiencing that disappointment and they are going more to dissociation or disconnect.
00:29:17
Speaker
And, Because we have all learned different ways to deal with our pain. Yes. Given our context, sometimes fight to be heard or to have our needs met didn't work.
00:29:30
Speaker
Sometimes it was going quiet and soothing ourselves. Yes. So we want you to hear there's not a better way. They're just different ways. That's right. and And this overlays with, as we talk about frequently, that we all have when we do ah something, activate something, hits a button, hits a sore spot or a deep wound, we react in certain ways. We we talk about getting triggered. I think that's a ah helpful word for it because at some point our brain and body are um kind of or at war and our body sort of takes over and the more primitive parts of our brain and
00:30:07
Speaker
nervous system kind of are driving the train. Right. And for me, that was a a powerful and helpful revelation. Once it finally got through all my defenses and all my resistance to recognize i may be smart as I'll get it. I may be logical. I may be well read. I may be trying so hard to love Jesus, but when I get activated, when a part of my story gets hit,
00:30:32
Speaker
all of that goes out the window. Right. And it's inaccessible. And I become, I communicate more out of desperation or I, or I check out out of desperation and to realize, Oh, that's what's happening in you as well was a big turning point. Like yeah you're not just a bad person and you're certainly not, you didn't go from being this very brilliant person to being stupid.
00:30:53
Speaker
um We all do that when the frontal lobe goes offline and we are reacting to something and then we are not logical But I think we can hit a bind as Christians when we have such a big rupture between us as a married couple.
00:31:10
Speaker
And it feels like suddenly we've not only failed each other, we failed Jesus. Because weren't we better, more faithful, stronger Christians than this?
00:31:21
Speaker
Yes. And... It really has nothing to do with that. There are these young parts of us that are activated into desperation. Yes. And we are trying these strategies that once worked till we were young yes and now no longer are appropriate right to get ourselves to safety.
00:31:43
Speaker
Like one that I'm smiling as I think of that that you maybe learn early on in marriage oh my gosh, there's five love languages. Did you know that? and Great work by Gary Smalley. There are five love languages and speaking the other person's love language that they receive, not the one that you're giving because it's what you would want,
00:32:02
Speaker
That's a radically helpful concept, but it's not enough. yeah It's not going to get you through these, you know, how do I respond when I don't get, you know, kindness or touch or whatever my love language is.
00:32:15
Speaker
um And so I think a lot of people end up maybe trying something a little bit more when when you have tried other things. And the other thing i love how how Dan Allender also reminds us always,
00:32:26
Speaker
Even if you have a good marriage, yes it can be ah better marriage. There's always more. There's always somewhere you can grow. And that, I think, has been that's been a helpful thing for us as well. I think there were times and seasons when we were going through marriage counseling or going to marriage intensives and things were like,
00:32:43
Speaker
fix this and fix the broken and at least help us, you know get back to peacefulness. But to be invited to the story work context is where we were invited, I think, to more.
00:32:54
Speaker
yeah Like, hey, you have some really good intimacy as well. That's part of yeah part of what i would experience is our intimacy and our connection was so good. Mm-hmm. that when it wasn't there yeah because of my fault, your fault, didn't matter. When it was not accessible, I would almost fall apart. yeah I'm like, what happened to that really good?
00:33:12
Speaker
And I needed to be able to you know hold up okay and know it's going to cycle or we're going to miss each other, but we will come back around. And this idea of being invited to more and that we can grow in intimacy was felt a little easier or better to pursue than just stop being an asshole, stop being a jerk, stop being a bitchy, whatever.
00:33:34
Speaker
know However the limits we take on ourselves. yeah Hey folks, we're going to pause the conversation right there and divide this conversation into two different
Invitation to the Samson Society
00:33:45
Speaker
episodes. So be on the lookout for part two of this episode of the Surviving Saturday podcast.
00:33:50
Speaker
I want to take a minute though here in this interstitial space to extend an invitation, particularly to any men out there who might be listening or ladies, maybe you can pass this invitation on to your guy if you think it might be worthwhile.
00:34:05
Speaker
I am part of a nationwide organization, really international organization called the Samson Society. And the Samson Society is a fellowship of Christian men who are serious about authentic relationship and authentic community.
00:34:17
Speaker
humility and recovery, particularly from various forms of addiction, brokenness in relationships, anything kind of, any kind of hidden struggles or difficulties that men may have had.
00:34:30
Speaker
If you want to find out more about what Samson Society is about, you can check out the website samsonsociety.com. And also they have a fantastic podcast that is called the Pirate Monk Podcast. Pirate and then monk-like podcast.
00:34:44
Speaker
monk in a monastery. The name comes from a book that was written by pastor named Nate Larkin back in early 2000s called Samson and the Pirate Monks, calling them into authentic brotherhood and that's another way can learn about the organization as well. It's been a real great blessing to me in finding some honest, real, down-to-earth brothers to walk with, to share honestly about what's going on in our lives.
00:35:10
Speaker
it's really some of my favorite people that I've encountered have been through Xamath Society. It's people who get this idea of being on a journey and doing work to understand why we are the way we are, why we react and operate the ways that we do, particularly when we're stressed and lonely and frustrated and all things like that. And it's a great just fellowship and a positive, just an alternative to to what you might find out there sometimes if you know community in your church or in your normal circles of friends is not really coming out like you'd like it.
00:35:46
Speaker
Why I'm mentioning it now is because I am actually one of the co-chairs of the Charlotte chapter, which now meets on Wednesday nights Matthews. And so if you have any interest at all in just coming and checking out and meeting sometime and seeing what we're all about and meeting some of the other really great guys who are involved, please shoot me an email atris at chris at nurturecounseling.net.
00:36:12
Speaker
And I'd be glad to give you some more information and let you find out when and where we meet and see if you want to come by and visit, pop in. You don't have to say anything. You don't do anything. And I can show you other ways to get involved in the organization as well. So again, just shoot me an email if you're interested and we'd love to have you come and visit sometime.
00:36:31
Speaker
Take care and we'll see on the next episode of the Surviving Saturday Podcast.