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From the Head to the Heart to the Body-Fully Experiencing the Kindness of God
47 Plays1 month ago
We're back, folks! The podcast returns for Season 2 after a bit of a hiatus. In this episode, Chris and Wendy talk about different ways that God has shown up and made his kindness and goodness known in more tangible ways. What are the circumstance, settings, and commitments that make communion with God in everyday life more possible to experience? Sit in on this heartfelt conversation to be inspired, encouraged, and challenged to makes time and space for fellowship with Jesus.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Surviving Saturday'
00:00:03
Speaker
Welcome to Surviving Saturday, a podcast about holding on to hope in the midst of life's difficulties, disappointments, and dark seasons.
Despair and Hope: Easter Saturday's Agony
00:00:12
Speaker
Times like that remind us of the agony and despair the followers of Jesus felt on the Saturday of Easter weekend, in between the Friday on which he was crucified and the Sunday on which he rose from the dead.
00:00:22
Speaker
That someday forever changed the way that humans can relate to
Honesty in Pain and Hope in God
00:00:26
Speaker
God. But what does it look like to be honest about the very real pain we experience in the in-between?
Meet the Hosts: Wendy and Chris
00:00:32
Speaker
To fervently cling to hope in the God who promised us his peace and his presence at times when he feels distant or even cruel. I'm Wendy Osborne, a licensed counselor in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I'm her husband, Chris, a marriage mediator, conflict resolution coach, and trauma-informed story work coach.
Conversations on Unmet Expectations
00:00:51
Speaker
Join us each episode for authentic conversations about how life not turning out as we'd expected has created the contextual soil for the growth of a tenacious hope in the resurrection and in a God who is still making all things new.
Return from Hiatus: Life Changes
00:01:07
Speaker
Hello, we are back. Hey guys.
00:01:11
Speaker
It is Wendy and Chris here. We have taken quite a long break from recording anything. Frankly, I was very tired. And I was very busy is not even a word to describe it. I was inundated for a while and kind of or wasn't much else happening bandwidth-wise other than work stuff and a little bit of family stuff.
Sage the Cat: A Traumatic Vet Visit
00:01:36
Speaker
We got our youngest, graduated from college and out to California to live for a year. We are here with our cat Sage.
00:01:49
Speaker
who wants to give a shout out to vets everywhere that she does not like them. She likes nothing that they do. She was there the other night for a little sickness and it was not a good experience for her. She has been a study in a short term trauma recovery for the last couple of days. Yes. Staying close, closer to your side than usual. Yes. Yes. And she's here peacefully on the edge of my chair.
00:02:16
Speaker
I think she's she's made her debut as a therapy cat too recently, hasn't she? She has. She does a lot of co-counseling with me. She's now part of this pod squad.
God as Seamstress: Covering Shame
00:02:26
Speaker
So I want to open up our conversation here by a quote from Cole Arthur Riley, who um has the book and the Instagram, I guess you call it a site, Black Liturgies, which is phenomenal. um This is a quote from her book, This Here Flesh,
00:02:52
Speaker
and it is quoted in Chuck DeGroat's new book, Healing What's Within. So, this is going to kick off our conversation. Cool. So, co-author Riley in This Here Flesh. On the day the world began to die, she's quoting, she's considering Genesis 3. On the way day the world began to die, God became a seamstress. This is the moment in the Bible that I wish we talked about more often.
00:03:20
Speaker
When Adam and Eve eat from the tree, and decay and despair begin to creep in, when they learn to hide from their own bodies, when they learn to hide from each other, no one ever told me the story of a God who kneels and makes clothes out of animal skin for them. I remember many conversations about the doom and consequence imparted by God after humans ate from that tree. I learned of the curses too, and could maybe even recite them.
00:03:48
Speaker
but no one ever told me of the tenderness of this moment. When shame had replaced Eve's and Adam's dignity, God became a seamstress.
Intimacy in Custom Clothing
00:03:59
Speaker
He took the skin off his creation to make something that would allow humans to stand in the presence of their maker and one another again." So. Wow. That is like, can I just react to that for a second? Yeah. I mean, that is...
00:04:14
Speaker
That's a really present and visceral sort of image. Like even when you when you read it the second time there, you'd read it for me a minute ago, but he took the skin off of other animals to make covering for the humans. Like I didn't even thought about the intimacy and the kind of, I don't know the detail of that.
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah, it made me think of when I have had on a few occasions clothes made for me. So the the biggest one was my wedding dress. Yeah. And it is a very intimate experience because the seamstress is very familiar with your body, but also with your likes and your style. And so they have to really know you to make something that is going to not just fit, but to suit you.
00:05:05
Speaker
Well that used to be more of a thing like as you're describing I'm like thinking of when do men that I know, when have I ever had anybody make clothing for me. I mean, it's almost never, i except for one time came to mind. It wasn't as intimate and didn't, it did require some measurements though. I had a law student actually who made me, handmade me a bow tie. And they measured my neck. And so it didn't have any adjustability. It's not like, it's just like here, this is for you. It's made for you. And it was a, they I think I got to choose a fabric or something, but I still treasure that thing yeah because it was, I want to know you and I want to both,
00:05:43
Speaker
I want to honor you and reflect, you know, it's something of your character, but it's a gift. that Yeah. Yeah. Um, but, but really men into, to a large degree are, are, are somewhat, we don't have that a lot, even altering stuff. We'll just typically, most guys I know will go buy a new shirt or a new pants.
00:06:01
Speaker
a new pair of pants before we'll have anything tailored or altered that much.
Chris's Journey with God's Tenderness
00:06:05
Speaker
And, but it used to be, I mean, at least for rich people, I guess back in the day, there were men's tailors and there was... And I think there are still some, but maybe a different echelon. Not the circles I run in. So I wanted to ask you, where in life have you felt maybe the equivalent tenderness of God?
00:06:27
Speaker
Ooh, yeah, that's a live topic for me because I feel like I've been on this journey of learning to experience the tenderness of God in a different way, in a more embodied fashion. I would say I've had tons of head knowledge. I've had lots of wonderful people who have taught me about the grace and mercy of God and said, God is for you and God loves you and have really tried to emphasize that.
00:06:57
Speaker
But it's different when you kind of experience it. i haven't had I didn't for a long time have that many visceral or or embodied, I would say, experiences of God's kindness. um So I would say... in recent times, that's what comes to mind, a couple things. um One recently that I was telling you about when we were going on a walk, but I recently went to a mentor treat with our church and I've done those lots and I love mentor treats a lot.
00:07:28
Speaker
because because there's you know time to get away with other guys, but there's time, at least in the ones I've gone to, where and they did it this time. we We actually had to to change plans. Our ministry was supposed to be in the mountains of North Carolina. We couldn't go because of the hurricane. So we decided to do something in our town of Charlotte and stick around, stick around the church, um which everybody's kind of a little bit bummed about. And I was really bummed because it's like I'm not going to have that outside time in nature. But anyway,
00:07:57
Speaker
We had a point in the retreat where it's go and spend time with God and just, you know, notice what you feel and and and let Him be present, which are kind of instructions. And I knew, I needed that. I knew I was overdue for that. And I mean, I was very, I walked off sort of the campus wherever we where I knew I had to get somewhere away from people. And I started feeling already, like I felt stuff welling up. I started just, you know,
00:08:25
Speaker
Um, feeling sadness and some anger and some frustration and all. And it was noticeable to me how, gosh, those are right below the surface. Those are like, it didn't take a few minutes. Like where it's like, Oh, we're finally gonna talk. Um, and I felt God inviting because the speaker had said, but also I knew like, well, I haven't done this a while, but I felt God inviting me to be present.
00:08:49
Speaker
Now I'm curious about you said you made the comment, oh, we're finally going to talk. I'm assuming that was guide. Yeah. And what was the tone of that question? It was a, it was an inviting tone. Okay. It was a like, I felt release in my body. It was not.
00:09:05
Speaker
it was not dreaded and it wasn't and I'm kind of sensitive about these things too because I don't after I've had intimate experiences talking with God or experiencing God but I'm very wary of of of either manufacturing that or trying to like I know I've tried to manufacture that again and you can't really like there's some way you know God tends to Surprise at least for me Routine has never been really good or it's not been something I've been drawn to and so every day I sit and read my Bible or this or that My brain just doesn't work that way. I haven't experienced God that way or maybe I'm too afraid. I'll be disappointed ah Whereas in this I like it's that time we've been building towards this I'm ready and my heart is kind of full and
00:09:55
Speaker
i Kind of just was just again just trying to be receptive and I kind of followed what this speaker had said, you know But I really didn't because I'm like I know God I need to talk and it's been at least a month or two since we've had just sustained time And I have good experiences when I do But I realized I have this um I have this gap or difficulty, and this is something I think the speaker talked about. um you know We talk about how how we in interact with God as Father is impacted by our relationship with our earthly fathers. And I think he had said something about, um he had done a couple great things, both, you know do you understand that that
00:10:39
Speaker
Jesus experienced God as a father who delighted in him like he pointed out the times when when a voice came audibly from heaven What it said was this is my son with whom I am well pleased. This is my beloved son This is who I delight in Listen to him And if you think about like that's like the only times in the gospels where God is like hey guys You know, I want you to get something and it's I delight in this and it what that hit for me as I i have I have such an absence of fatherly delight. My father, I'd have no memories of his face delighting in me and just going, I'm so glad you're here. I'm even thinking just in life, it it seems hard for humans to delight in one another. I think we delight in celebrities and when someone is announced at a concert or something, but it seems very hard for we humans to share glory that way.
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah, and to just be um overcome with, you know, when when you think of like just overcome with, oh my gosh, this, in fact, we're we're a little bit, if somebody is um showing too much delight in their favorite singer or speaker author or whatever, and it gets to like, we use the phrase fangirling. There's not really, I guess there's a fanboying, I guess you can be, but but it's almost derogatory. It's like, oh, you got too much energy. You just love that too much. You know, we we have sort of a uncomfortableness with,
00:12:07
Speaker
too much love but but i don't think my love for taylor swift is too much no you know no no no no no um but for for parents like um a guy on this retreat was telling a story about something that his son wanted they had taken their family to disney and there was a certain shirt and a certain size and they didn't have it and then they were looking in the back you know the old let's look in the back and see if we have it and and the person's like we usually don't have anything in the back but then they found it and this guy was talking about seeing his like three or four year old son just
00:12:40
Speaker
and that And just that delight and then he was talking about that delight and capturing that delight there That he wanted to freeze the moment, you know, india it was a worldly thing and all sure but but just the essence of delight was just so good it's not that different from what I read from Cole Arthur Riley like I the clothing, God's becoming a seamstress. There's a sweetness in this father procuring this shirt that brings this little boy such delight. Yes, and so that's what I was sort of wrestling with. I was realizing, it and and partly it was the timing and the location, but I went walking, our church is on Wilkinson Boulevard, and I went walking down past the
Childhood and Divine Tenderness
00:13:23
Speaker
site of the old law school um here in town where I used to teach, and I was remembering
00:13:28
Speaker
Man, when I went in there I felt special. And that that thought just sort of came to me. I knew, I'm like, I'm going to walk down there because there's Bryant Park nearby, has a bunch of stone architecture, and it's kind of a cool outdoor place to be. And that's sort of where I was heading by. I knew I'd walk past that building. But I remember the feeling of, I felt special when I walked in there. And then you know that that job ended, that that time in life ended. But I was reckoning with it. What it all brought together was how hard it is for me to just sit
00:14:01
Speaker
and rest in the delight of God. I realized that more than I would want to admit, I am always trying to do something to make people see that I'm special. You really have to know that I'm special, see that I'm special, and I'll be subtle about it. To get the delight. Yes, yes. Something to get the delight. Yes, I've realized I'm so desperate for that delight.
00:14:27
Speaker
that I'm trying to pull it out of people sometimes. Like I can't just say I'm a family lawyer. I'm like, I'm a, I'm a special kind of family lawyer. I'm a collaborative lawyer. I'm a mediator. Um, I'm not just a lawyer. I've been a law professor and i and I was really wrestling with, Oh, I have so much identity wrapped up in vocation. Even as I pursue counseling, I'm like, Oh, counselors are really special. I'll be really special. Then it is so insidious, but I was recognizing, um, uh, so that the speaker said, pay attention to any, any song lyrics or anything popping to your mind or,
00:14:57
Speaker
whatever comes when you're sitting and just presenting yourself to Jesus, just pay attention to that. And something that jumped into my head was there's a singer named John Belian. He's got a song called Stupid Deep. um And the song of the the lyrics say, what if who I long to be was always me? What if the love I fought to feel was always free? What if all the things I've done are just attempts at earning love? Because the hole inside my heart is stupid deep.
00:15:22
Speaker
And I was just like kind of undone by that like oh, I don't want that to be true about me, but it really is and I have such a dearth of Just that fatherly delight that you were asking me good questions about you know and we can talk about other times when I've experienced something of it, but at that point I was just wrestling with I want you to sit I want to trust that God has that intimacy for me, like if if if he saw me naked and ashamed, like, hey, I'll sew some clothes together for you, you know, I will cover you in the way you need to be covered. right And there's terms I've experienced that, but here I was just wrestling wrestling with,
00:16:02
Speaker
I don't make space for this enough. And some of it I think is, because I'm like, why don't I make time to actually connect with God on this level every day? Why does it take being away and somebody saying it's now your time to go and spend time with God. And I think that's part of it. I'm afraid to approach because I'm afraid it's not going to be there.
00:16:21
Speaker
Yeah, what do you think you're afraid won't be there the delight? I think I'm afraid that the light won't be there um I don't know if I can trust it and and here's the other thing we we I kind of laid on to I have a deep core also fear of nobody can handle all this in me if I let my Raw, unadulterated emotion and feelings out. Nobody's gonna stick around. Nobody wants to see all that. It's too much for people. um And ah when you say raw and adulterated emotions, are you meaning like grief?
00:16:57
Speaker
Yes, I'm thinking like deep feelings of grief that I've been exploring probably over the last three or four years through various you know training at the Allender Center and recovery week and things like that where I have I have experienced healing by just the raw young me getting to express what it was like to be in my house growing up and where there were people who invited that and they really didn't want all the all the words and all the flourishes and all the things that I would use to sort of keep people
00:17:30
Speaker
even though I think, you oh it's making you think I'm special, it's also keeping you at a distance. I'm not knowable if I'm sort of this illusory sort of thing or this wonderful thing. They wanted to know um the real me and they wanted to make space for the younger part of me to just say this is what it was like to be in my house.
Validation and Unconditional Delight
00:17:49
Speaker
and then they they kind of poked and invited and drew it out and then it kind of came out and there was deep feelings of grief and rage and hurt and fear that I hadn't named and I certainly hadn't let myself experience and I just kind of literally let it out.
00:18:05
Speaker
And do you think those feelings are around this reality that we are created for delight? i mean that's yeah but that feel That feels like it's taking a head direction even for me. like this is This is me trying to learn. I'm meeting the emotions that were coming up. Yeah, I think the emotion. And that little you that didn't yeah have them. That didn't have delight and it had a lot of desperate fear.
00:18:34
Speaker
and that was trying to be so damn grown up and had to be so damn grown up. yeah And so i mean I think I learned to be a self, very self contained and to hold it together um because there was nobody I could just fall apart with. And in my, in my home growing up, I couldn't just let it all out rage and somebody say, Hey, I gotcha. And just this picture of, you know, somebody enveloping you you and hey Hey, take all your rage out on me. Feel what you feel. It's okay. I'm here for you. I just don't have that. I have my dad who was absent and
00:19:09
Speaker
only connected through all this conflict and all this and my mom was nurturing and brought kindness but it was there was a consumptive aspect to it. I had to support her and keep her alive and literally I felt like at times I was keeping her alive. Well she had a lot of health issues yes right? Yes, health issues plus the violence between them and I was sort of restorative was part of a role I played So there was no room for you? No, there was no room for me and there was no room, I had a chance briefly this summer in one of my counseling training programs to do kind of a psychodrama um program or a professor kind of walked us through this but used me as sort of the guinea pig and gave me a chance to have like a conversation with my young self with my young sister and somebody sort of played the role of my sister and the best thing about that whole thing was
00:20:02
Speaker
we de-centered my parents. Like somebody sort of in psychodrama, somebody sort of stands in the place of other important important people in your life. We put my mom and dad kind of over here having an argument, but then they were off, you know, almost off stage while my sister and I became the center focus. yeah And it was just like, even that was powerful to recognize how their conflict and the way they Conducted themselves and and how they managed all their pain and drama how that sucked all the energy Well the home was conflict-centric. Yes, it was conflict-centric rather than adults dealing with the adult things They needed you to be in the middle of it. Yes. Yes and and so that's been part of my healing journey is to experience
00:20:54
Speaker
the kindness of God to go into moments where I mean where I wasn't even thinking about is God here now I don't know I'm just trying to survive I'm just trying to to to to live through what they're bringing and endure it but to go back and to to tend it sounds wacky sometimes but to tend to those younger parts of myself where those memories are those are in me Well, yeah, because like you said, they come out now saying, do you see me? Do you see me? Yes, yes. and they also them And they also come out in like like the unhealthy sort of pursuit of, of hey, can can I be center stage? It helped me to kind of understand why. I mean, I was in second grade when I got my first lead in a play. And I was yeah one of the two people who got to play Santa Claus in a Christmas play, like second grade.
00:21:41
Speaker
and the stage became a place for me. We're like, oh, you can see me now. Watch. I sing. I dance. I will, I will get your delight. yeah and And I know i've I've read about and know the stories of a lot of, you know, famous comedians and actors and stuff who, who talk about that as well. A lot of them have very traumatic, troubled childhoods as well. Chris Parnell from South, uh, from, uh, Saturday Night Live has written about it or Daryl Hammond one. I forget what you want, but they've written about, oh my gosh, yeah, how did I learn to do voices? Because I entertained my mom yeah for years. You know, Dan talks about that as well. He was the entertainer at his family stories. So I'm recognizing that and I'm like trying to live
God's Consistent Presence
00:22:21
Speaker
differently. Like I don't want to have to dazzle to have to say, look at me, I'm special. I want to just live into who am I and let, let God remind me of that. And so this tender moment with him on this retreat was,
00:22:37
Speaker
As I've experienced him in other times too, he's like, bring what you got. I don't care what you bring. Yeah, you you're mad. You're upset. You're frustrated. I got you. I got you. So how do you think you got to the place where you could trust him?
00:22:54
Speaker
with all that's in you just a few weeks ago when that is not the fathering that you knew in this earthly life? Yeah, that's a fantastic question. um In that immediate moment, one of the things that helped was the speaker had played a clip from a store a TV show I haven't heard of called Open Range or Outer Range, something like that.
00:23:15
Speaker
And he played this scene where Josh Bro and the actor is playing a man who's very grizzled and doesn't have a life of faith or whatever, but yet at dinner one night he asks if he can pray and the whole family looks and goes, Oh my God. Uh, yeah, sure. What's going to happen? And he brings a prayer that is just like authentic and real and raw. And it's like,
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah, God, I'm gonna talk to you, but there's this big gulf between us, and where the hell are you? And this is like, he's saying grace, like the chicken's just sitting on the table, and he is just like, all of a sudden, raw, emoting with God. So that- He's showing up naked. Yes. And so there was that invitation, and I would say it's it's places where somebody who's a very wise, kind caregiver has invited me To bring the real and they kind of with me they have to kind of say can you stop the tap dancing or the the wonderful words and uh, you know You've got this all figured out shit because really i'd like i'm i'm interested in knowing the you that's behind that and so when somebody kind of pursues and has invited that and then i'll be like
00:24:23
Speaker
Okay, well, i'll okay I'll show you a little i'll show you little and I'll reveal something and they they can handle it. And they're not like, they don't run away. And they're not like, oh, well that is bad. Nevermind, don't tell me that. What do you think has given them that strength? How can they, when maybe others haven't done that?
00:24:42
Speaker
I think ah everybody I can think of, it's somebody who's done their own work, they've been on their own healing journey, and they're really connected to that. um So I'm thinking of a counselor named John, I'm thinking of Tom, and then FTC1 with a small group leader there, where they basically just said, can we have, what are you really feeling? If I were in that position of this story you just told about your house growing up,
00:25:07
Speaker
I would feel this or I would feel I might feel that they don't presume I have a real sensitive to if somebody tells me what to feel I'd I ah react very strongly as you see but if somebody invites me to name what I actually feel and pokes around but they show that they they want that then I you know, give a little bit more. I allow a little bit more to come out. And when they can handle it and they're like, we're here, I'm still here, I still, I love you more now than I did before. And they really said things like that, like that real self that you just brought is is beautiful. And I'm like, really? I'm like, it's foreign, but also meets a deep seated ache that that I know is there.
00:25:51
Speaker
so I think what you're saying is when you're in the presence of someone who is convinced of God's tenderness and delight toward them, yeah yeah they can hold whatever you bring because they've been naked before Him. Yes, yes, that's a good way to capture it because the the fake of it, the sort of somebody's trying to be really caring and being really pursuing. But there's ah there's a sort of inauthenticity you can kind of pick up on. It could be scrambling, like you're saying. yeah Look how good. Do you like me now? Yeah, and I'm trying to pay attention to that dynamic of myself as well. When I'm getting to know somebody and I'm asking curiosity questions and I'm saying, really, you can share the real with me. I want your real self.
00:26:36
Speaker
Is that for real? Am I really operating out of that because I know I'm loved and I'm solid or am I thinking if I ask real good questions and I'm really listening and I'm really kind, well you think I'm really special because of that. I'm really, really ah ah aware of that dynamic. It's so insidious, right? It is. We're all doing it in some way. Yes, that's what I've loved about some of the training that I've done is is people are are you know normalizing, let's catch each other doing that. like hey felt like you were authentic and real and there and then somehow it went a different direction. What what happened at this moment? it it I didn't believe it as much or it it didn't feel like you were as present or there. And so I would say, kind of back to your original question, I've experienced the tenderness of God
00:27:23
Speaker
both in being alone with him and, and finding that he, I mean, he can hear whatever and he's never said, you know, whatever feeling I've opened up or allowed to come out. He never says, can you shut that down? I don't want that. That's not what I meant. You're supposed to just praise me. You know, I don't get that. I get that.
00:27:42
Speaker
He's like, I mean, the Bible has Psalm 73 for a reason. And some of the the imprecatory Psalms, the, I don't understand, where are you? Why are you doing like Josh Brolin's prayer and ah in that um in the open range show? I can handle, you I'm glad you're dialed in and we are having this conversation. And I know that enough.
00:28:02
Speaker
I just have to, it feels like I have to remind myself, like, oh, I can i can actually be honest about the things where I'm grateful for what God's doing and I can see his work and I'm blessed by it. And there are other places where I still have this big hurt and disappointment. There are these things that I thought were supposed to be a certain way or happen a certain way and they
Divine Tenderness in Community
00:28:19
Speaker
haven't happened. yeah And those hurt and I'm hurting in it. ah And God's like, I get it, I get it. and And I've got this sense of, of Wait a minute. Nobody could see when I was 23 or 25 or whatever. Nobody could see what was going to happen for the rest of my life. So if I'm looking at people I know and care about who are 23, 25, 30, 40, whatever, I don't know the whole story either. yeah But there are times that God feels absent.
00:28:48
Speaker
but he's not necessarily, he's just not acting right then. He's lying in wait, whatever. So I would say experiencing God alone has been necessary, in being comfortable with silence, being comfortable just, hey, i'm gonna we're just gonna hang out. I'm learning to sort of lean into that and i want I find myself wanting to make more space for that. And the other place is just in community, like you were talking about with with those you know kind of wise, kind people,
00:29:17
Speaker
For me, a big ingredient is I think I'm following more finding myself more drawn to places where we do cut the bullshit or there's no room for bullshit. like Nobody's posturing. Nobody's like, hey, check me out. Look at me. I love communities where everybody's sort of honest from the start with. like And this is one last thing I'll say on that. I know we're getting kind of near the end of the episode. but Um, I, for my counseling training recently was required to go to an alcoholics anonymous meeting and an narcotics anonymous meeting and Alan on meeting. And in every one, um, I, I have been to some things that are similar to that, but I felt a kindred spirit. I felt a little bit at home and I respected the heck out of the people.
00:29:59
Speaker
Because they were naming truth and they're naming truth in their own lives and nobody's trying to judge each other, fix each other. They're pretty strict about no crosstalk. When somebody shares, you don't tell them the great books that they should read and you don't tell them what you should talk to my guy boss. You just let them have space to feel what they're feeling and particularly the Al-Anon.
00:30:19
Speaker
I feel like after leaving that was like, I probably should have been to more of these. These are helpful. People are trying to figure out where do my feelings start and end and somebody else is starting to end. I feel like we could all benefit from 12-step meetings. Yeah. Yeah. Every single one of us, if there's An act of addiction of a substance or a process or not, we're all scrambling to find what would make us loved. Yes, as we end, I'm going to put a plug in for something that is near and dear to my heart, but some of you are listening to be familiar with the Samson Society.
00:30:51
Speaker
which is trying to be a basically a group for men who who want authentic connection and who want to actually be talking about the real stuff, who want no pretension and no Christian shiny it up, but but basically real, raw, authentic community where there is sort of a 12-step-ish kind of format, um but it's it's not just for certain kinds of recovery, anything like that. It's just basically authentic manhood, manhood and another enterprise or another format.
00:31:19
Speaker
I've been to their national meeting a couple times they've had Jay stringer come and speak they've had Adam Young come and speak, at ah ah Andrew Bauman's coming up but we've actually there are a couple of us who've gotten together and we said look we're going to start a Charlotte chapter there used to be a Charlotte chapter I think I even met at Hope um but there is is one now getting started it's going to be on Wednesday nights Uh, at a place in Matthews called the, um, community, the collective community or the collective cafe. Uh, so if anybody wants information about that, they can email me, email me at Chris at nursing housing.net. Um, but authentic community.
00:31:54
Speaker
is ah I think a great place where the tenderness of Jesus can show up and in in amen brothers and sisters. So um we'll have a part two of this episode where we're going to let Wendy share some about where she has experienced the kindness and tenderness of God as well. So join us for that. And otherwise we'll see you next time on the surviving Saturday podcast.
00:32:17
Speaker
The Surviving Saturday podcast is brought to you by Nurture Counseling PLLC, a counseling teaching and training center based out of Charlotte, North Carolina. We help families flourish one story at a time. Nurture Counseling provides counseling, counseling intensive for couples, conflict resolution coaching, story work groups, seminars, workshops, and retreats to provide a safe and welcoming context for exploring the agonizing experiences of pain, brokenness, and evil that disrupt our lives.
00:32:44
Speaker
and that God often uses to nurture deeper trust and intimacy with Him and with each other. You can find us online at www.nurturecounseling.net