Some people come into your life and quietly, powerfully change its trajectory. For Wendy, that person was Rachael Clinton Chen.

In this first half of a two-part conversation, we sit down with Rachael — a pastor, teacher, and co-host of the Allender Center Podcast — for a conversation that’s rich with honesty, clarity, and care. We talk about what it means to be truly seen, why minimizing suffering is so common (especially in Christian spaces), and the small but brave turns that can lead us toward freedom.

Rachael shares pieces of her own story — from growing up in a fundamentalist church, to experiencing spiritual abuse, to slowly finding her way back to a more spacious and embodied love of God. She reflects on the disorientation that comes when relationships, especially those rooted in spiritual authority, become harmful — and how reclaiming our voice and agency is part of the healing journey. Along the way, we talk about power, trust, and the kind of theology that either binds us or sets us free.

This episode is full of honesty, warmth, and fierce kindness. It’s for anyone who’s ever wondered if they were too much, too broken, or too far gone to be met by God — and needed to hear, gently but clearly: you’re not.

Content note: This conversation includes references to trauma and non-graphic mentions of suicidal thoughts. Please listen with care.

Connect with Rachael:
@rachaelclintonchen [https://www.instagram.com/rachaelclintonchen/]
theallendercenter.org [https://theallendercenter.org/author/clintonr/]



Rachael Clinton Chen (Part 1): Story, Suffering, and the God Who Meets Us

What comes to mind when you hear the words “self-care”? A bubble bath? A walk in the woods? Maybe… a little guilt?

In this episode, Wendy sits down with her good friend Danielle Hughes—a counselor, spiritual director, and fellow traveler in the world of soul-tending. They talk about what it really means to care for ourselves in a way that’s honest, sustainable, and spiritually grounded.

Danielle shares about her unique upbringing overseas, her current season of parenting and ministry, and how she’s learning (slowly) to listen to her own needs. Wendy reflects on a season of burnout, and the surprising ways she found healing—not through doing more, but through receiving help from others…and from God.

If you’ve ever felt tired but unsure how to stop, or if you know all the right things to do but never seem to get around to actually doing them—this one’s for you.

They also share a new offering for women in Charlotte: Self-Care Camp [https://www.cultivatecharlotte.com/store/p/held-a-soul-care-summer-camp] (yes, it’s as good as it sounds). Come listen in.

**Register today @ Cultivate Charlotte: https://www.cultivatecharlotte.com/store/p/held-a-soul-care-summer-camp**

Connect with and learn more aboit about Danielle here [https://www.cultivatecharlotte.com/about].

Alone, But Not Lonely: A Conversation About Soul Care with Danielle Hughes

Y’all… we’re blushing just a little over this one. Because today, we’re going there — with therapist and author Sam Jolman, who joins us for a gracious, grounded, and yes, occasionally awkward conversation about sex, story, and the deep hope of healing.

Sam’s new book The Sex Talk You Never Got is the kind of resource we wish we’d had at 13, 22, and honestly, last week. We talk about what we learned (and didn’t) growing up in the church, how shame got tangled up with desire, and what it means to honor our bodies — and each other’s — with curiosity, reverence, and kindness. Together we explore consent, deep wounds caused by “purity culture,” emotional regulation, co-regulation, and the quiet ache for connection that often lives beneath our behaviors.

Whether you’re parenting kids through the thick of it, untangling your own story, or simply trying to feel a little less weird about the fact that this topic still makes you squirm, we hope you’ll feel seen, safe, and invited. Because this part of us — our longing, our tenderness, our capacity for joy — was never meant to be shut down. It was meant to be restored.

Check out Sam's book at samjolman.com [https://www.samjolman.com/the-sex-talk-you-never-got-book/].
Connect with Wendy on Instagram: @nurturecounselingnc [https://www.instagram.com/nurturecounselingnc/]

Sex, Story, and the Hope of Healing with Sam Jolman

A frequent theme of this lil' ol' podcast is that having a more honest, compassionate, and kind regard for your own story of formation in your family of origin can be a huge source of greater intimacy and kindness in your marriage.

But how exactly does that work?

What does it look like in practice for both people in a marriage to explore their stories, together?

What are the ideal circumstances and commitments that a couple would want to have before going into such a process?  And what might they hope to gain if the effort bears fruit?  Is it just a bunch of self-absorbed "navel gazing" or blame-shifting to our parents for our present day problems?  Or, might there be something powerful, delicate, and maybe even holy at work?

In this THIRD episode of a3part series, Chris and Wendy share intimately about what doing story work has looked like through the last 20+ years of their marriage. And as you will see, it's been quite a journey....  They also describe what can happen when a couple either works with Wendy as their counselor to do story work for the benefit of their marriage, or decides to engage in a marriage story workshop or a one-on-one couples' intensive.  No matter where you are in your marriage, there will be something of goodness, mystery, and wonder to be gained just for a half hour or so of your listening time.  Enjoy!

Story Work in Your Marriage: The Hope, The Challenges, and The Power (Pt. 3)

A frequent theme of this lil' ol' podcast is that having a more honest, compassionate, and kind regard for your own story of formation in your family of origin can be a huge source of greater intimacy and kindness in your marriage.

But how exactly does that work?

What does it look like in practice for both people in a marriage to explore their stories, together?

What are the ideal circumstances and commitments that a couple would want to have before going into such a process?  And what might they hope to gain if the effort bears fruit?  Is it just a bunch of self-absorbed "navel gazing" or blame-shifting to our parents for our present day problems?  Or, might there be something powerful, delicate, and maybe even holy at work?

In this second episode of a three part series, Chris and Wendy share intimately about what doing story work has looked like through the last 20+ years of their marriage. And as you will see, it's been quite a journey....  They also describe what can happen when a couple either works with Wendy as their counselor to do story work for the benefit of their marriage, or decides to engage in a marriage story workshop or a one-on-one couples' intensive.  No matter where you are in your marriage, there will be something of goodness, mystery, and wonder to be gained just for a half hour or so of your listening time.  Enjoy!

Story Work in Your Marriage:  The Hope, the Challenges, and the Power (Part 2)

A frequent theme of this lil' ol' podcast is that having a more honest, compassionate, and kind regard for your own story of formation in your family of origin can be a huge source of greater intimacy and kindness in your marriage.  

But how exactly does that work?  

What does it look like in practice for both people in a marriage to explore their stories, together?  

What are the ideal circumstances and commitments that a couple would want to have before going into such a process?  And what might they hope to gain if the effort bears fruit?  Is it just a bunch of self-absorbed "navel gazing" or blame-shifting to our parents for our present day problems?  Or, might there be something powerful, delicate, and maybe even holy at work?

In this first episode of a three part series, Chris and Wendy share intimately about what doing story work has looked like through the last 20+ years of their marriage. And as you will see, it's been quite a journey....  They also describe what can happen when a couple either works with Wendy as their counselor to do story work for the benefit of their marriage, or decides to engage in a marriage story workshop or a one-on-one couples' intensive.  No matter where you are in your marriage, there will be something of goodness, mystery, and wonder to be gained just for a half hour or so of your listening time.  Enjoy!

Story Work in Your Marriage: The Hope, The Challenges, and The Power

Here's a crazy thought:  The hardest places in your marriage--the most maddening merry-go-rounds of misery, mixed motives, meanness, malcontendedness, and missed moments--might actually hold the key to discovering greater intimacy and connection.  (Yep. Read that again.)

Hang with us here.  What if our rough edges, our raw spots, our "triggers," if you will-- are not just random, or merely "sin patterns" we need to repent of, or weird personality quirks? What if there is a reason that each of us loves what we love, and hates what we hate? Doesn't it make sense that those nagging "bad habits" or addictions or relational patterns that we can't break free from were learned somewhere, from someone, and for some purpose? And if so, could the path to lasting freedom involve deeper exploration of where they came from?

Put another way, the idols that our hearts have looked to for deliverance had to have been forged in a furnace at some point.  If that's true, then what might we learn and how might we grow, by going back into that fiery furnace--but with with wise guidance, kind care, and worthy travelling companions?

In in this episode, Wendy and Chris and their dear friends, Steve &  Lisa Call, explore the transformative power of marriage "story work," and how it can rekindle hope for a relationship, catalyze greater attunement to one another, cultivate a more enduring resilience, and deepen intimacy. There's also practical guidance on what it looks like for couples to engage one another's most formative stories by themselves, with a counselor, and in marriage story group contexts. 

The Calls are the founders of The Reconnect Institute, and co-authors, with Dan and Becky Allender, of an incredibly insightful and practical new book, The Deep Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight--a book that provides encouragement and practical guidance for building, nurturing, and even repairing a marriage. 

Steve is a longtime counselor and counselor educator at the Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, and Lisa is a story work coach who has completed multiple levels of training in narrative focused trauma care at The Allender Center. Through The Reconnect Institute, they have worked with countless couples to dig up the roots of recurrent conflict, and provide opportunities for reflection, renewal, and resurrection.

Where to find our guests:

The Deep-Rooted Marriage [https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Rooted-Marriage-Cultivating-Intimacy-Healing/dp/1400344468/ref=asc_df_1400344468?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80195820408724&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583795285512647&psc=1&msclkid=63e676e67644185ae646112b8ff4e899]

Reconnect Institute [https://www.thereconnectinstitute.com/]

Marriage Story Intensives [https://www.thereconnectinstitute.com/marriage-story-intensive]

Hope for Any Marriage (Yes, Even Yours!) with Steve & Lisa Call (Pt. 2)

Have you ever been "stuck" in your marriage? Maybe it's the same old conflict loop that seems to play over and over. You run through the familiar moves and countermoves until one or both of you reaches the point of exhaustion. So you put down the weapons for a bit, and limp into a cease fire, but nothing ever fully gets resolved.  And you both live on edge, knowing that you are one disappointment or careless remark away from starting the vicious cycle all over again.

Or maybe you're not fighting, but you're not really connecting either. You've got your friends, he has his work and his toys, and you come together to shepherd the kids through the next weekly round of activities.  But when you take the time to be honest with yourself, you fear you've lost the spark, the sizzle, the joy that you once knew as a married couple. You may vocalize what sounds like an innocent enough question, "Is this all there is?", but therein might lie the doorway to any number of unhelpful and potentially destructive mirages of escape or numbing out. 

However "stuckness" shows up in your marriage, Surviving Saturday is here with a reminder that there is hope. For real.  Come spend a little time with Wendy & Chris and their dear friends, Dr. Steve Call & his wife Lisa, and maybe you will catch a glimpse. The Calls are the co-authors, with Dan and Becky Allender, of an incredibly helpful new book, The Deep Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight--a book that provides encouragement and practical guidance for building, nurturing, and even repairing a marriage. Ya just gotta get down to the roots...

Steve is a longtime counselor and counselor educator at the Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, and Lisa is a story work coach who has completed multiple levels of training in narrative focused trauma care at the Allender Center.  Through the Reconnect Institute, they have worked with countless couples to dig up the roots of recurrent conflict, and provide opportunities for reflection, renewal, and resurrection.

Where to find our guests:

The Deep-Rooted Marriage [https://www.amazon.com/Deep-Rooted-Marriage-Cultivating-Intimacy-Healing/dp/1400344468/ref=asc_df_1400344468?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=80195820408724&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583795285512647&psc=1&msclkid=63e676e67644185ae646112b8ff4e899]

Reconnect Institute [https://www.thereconnectinstitute.com/]

Marriage Story Intensives [https://www.thereconnectinstitute.com/marriage-story-intensive]

Hope for Any Marriage (Yes, Even Yours!) with Steve & Lisa Call

This one has it all:  Logs and specks, vows and curses, mustard seeds of faith, our relationships with power and control... and a compellingly redemptive conversation on a ski slope...

We pick up the conversation with everyone's absolute favorite marriage themes, lust and anger.  Yep.  :-)  As off-putting as that may sound, you may still want to hear the rest of Dan's story.  We discuss how coming to the end of ourselves (which often happens when our individual triggers show up) can offer beautiful opportunities for spouses to taste true redemption.  

Tune in for Part 2 of our lively interview with Dr. Dan Allender, our friend, mentor, wise guide, and source of inspiration in everything we do at Nurture Counseling and here on the podcast.

Pre-order The Deep-Rooted Marriage here to get access to some special companion resources: https://www.thomasnelson.com/p/deep-rooted-marriage/

Cultivating a Deeply-Rooted Marriage... with Dr. Dan Allender! (Pt.  2)

Y'all... This can't be happening...  And yet it is. Our special guest this episode is none other than Dr. Dan Allender, whom we are honored to call our friend, mentor, wise guide, and chief source of inspiration in everything we do at Nurture Counseling and here on the podcast.  

We are beside ourselves with gratitude, and so thrilled for our listeners to get to experience Dan's wisdom, playfulness, kindness, winsomeness, and infectious passion for the redemptive work of the Gospel in marriages.  His newest book, The Deep-Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight (co-written with fellow Christian couples therapist Dr. Steve Call)  comes out in a few weeks, and we know you will be blessed by the foretaste Dan provides in this 2 part interview. 

Join us for a delightful and insightful conversation with Dan about the new ground that this book breaks (see what I did there?) by including a richer exploration of the effects that trauma and disappointment that we often bring into our marriages can have on our ability to navigate conflict and suffering when we encounter them. We'll consider how marriage and/or  raising a family can both draw out the worst in any of us, yet also uniquely offer us glimpses of heaven and the glory that God intends for His people. 

And we hope that after meeting Dan in a more intimate setting like this, you, too, will be inspired, encouraged, and better equipped to bring the kindness and mercy of God to bear on both your own story and your spouse's.

Oh, and you can pre-order The Deep-Rooted Marriage here to get access to some special companion resources: https://www.thomasnelson.com/p/deep-rooted-marriage/

Cultivating a Deeply-Rooted Marriage... with Dr. Dan Allender! (Pt.  1)

Welcome to "The Thriving Lawyers Podcast, brought to you by Chris Osborn and Michael Kahn of ReelTime Creative Learning Experiences!  Join us for candid but ultimately inspiring conversations with lawyers from around the U.S. and Canada (and maybe points beyond) who have found ways to truly thrive in the practice of law.   We may even discuss a movie or two, on our never-ending quest for inspiration, motivation, and practical solutions. (That's how Reel Time got started, after all!)

The Thriving Lawyers Podcast

Join licensed clinical mental health counselor Wendy Osborn and her husband Chris as they share intimately about their journey  through three decades of marriage, and the healing and growth God has brought them individually and as a couple in the process. From a storybook beginning right out of an 80s rom-com, though times of disappointment, heartache, seemingly unresolvable conflict, loss, and grief, their story forms the backdrop for considering how God uses struggle to draw folks closer to the real Jesus. Surviving Saturday is all about holding tenaciously on to hope in the darkest days-- in between the crucifixion on Friday, and his resurrection and ascension on Sunday.  

Brought to you by Nurture Counseling [https://www.nurturecounseling.net/], PLLC in Charlotte, NC, a counselling teaching and training center in Charlotte NC committed to helping families flourish, one story at a time. 

Special thanks to singer/songwriter extraordinaire BIll Mallonee for the licensing rights to use one of our favorite tunes about relational trainwrecks, and the road back to forgiveness, redemption, and renewal of hope.  You can find this tune and more of his music at https://www.billmalloneemusic.com/ or on the Bandcamp app.

The "Surviving Saturday" Podcast

Chris's Show

Encouragement and wisdom from licensed mental health counselor Wendy Osborn and her husband of 35 years, Chris, on how to navigate doubt, betrayal, disappointment, and other hard times in marriage and parenting.  We believe Jesus is a very present help in trouble, and is always at work to bring us closer to Him and to one another.  Our stories from our families of origin often provide important clues to how your styles of relating have been formed and ways that we have tried to make life work on our own terms.  Based on our training through Dan Allender and The Allender Center in narrative focused trauma care, we believe that God enables us to partake of his grace and reflect his glory, and that it is the kindness of the Lord that leads us to repentance and restoration.

Chris

Shows