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The Uniquely Transforming Power of Group Story Work - Pt. 2
22 Plays1 month ago
So maybe for a while now you have been exploring your story--the formative incidents from growing up that have left their mark on you, for both good and ill. It's one thing to do that on your own, maybe even with the help of your favorite podcast.
Some of you may have even experienced how story work goes to a whole different level when you do it one on one, under the care and guidance of a seasoned counselor like Wendy, or a story work coach like Chris.
But why would anyone ever even THINK of diving down into the details of your story in a group setting? Isn't that just a recipe for making you feel even greater shame? Why would anyone EVER want to do that, and how could it possibly make a difference in your healing journey?
Join Wendy and Chris for Part 2 of this lively and frank discussion of the distinct ways that God has used story work groups to bring about deeper and longer lasting change and healing for each of them individually, as well as growth and greater intimacy in their marriage. You might be surprised at how it works, and how you can experience similar healing and transformation.
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Transcript
Introduction to Surviving Saturday Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to Surviving Saturday, a podcast about holding on to hope in the midst of life's difficulties, disappointments, and dark seasons. Times like that remind us of the agony and despair the followers of Jesus felt on the Saturday of Easter weekend, in between the Friday on which he was crucified and the Sunday on which he rose from the dead.
00:00:23
Speaker
That someday forever changed the way that humans can relate to God. But what does it look like to be honest about the very real pain we experience in the in-between? To fervently cling to hope in the God who promised us his peace and his presence at times when he feels distant or even cruel. I'm Wendy Osborne, a licensed counselor in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I'm her husband, Chris, a marriage mediator, conflict resolution coach, and trauma-informed story work coach.
00:00:51
Speaker
Join us each episode for authentic conversations about how life not turning out as we'd expected has created the contextual soil for the growth of a tenacious hope in the resurrection and in a God who is still making all things new.
Chris Osborne's Transformative Experience
00:01:07
Speaker
In these group settings, the freedom to get into the way the story has operated Like I'd known the story of different conflict and struggle in my family on some abstract level, on some intellectual level, even maybe on a shallow feeling level, on some feeling level. But the invitation in these story groups, what happened is people went with me into the depths of a story. And I like went with me in a way I'd never experienced before. So I'll give one example. I was at one of these healing groups and
00:01:44
Speaker
I had some thoughts, ships kind of where are you, what do you think about whatever, and I kind of described the scenario, and the leader, who is this beautiful, just kind, tremendously insightful person, but has also been, ah he just he said, Chris, I'm not buying it. I don't feel like you're even here. i like I'm not buying it. it just you not give me I don't know exactly what I had said, but it undid me.
00:02:07
Speaker
But it it was with kindness and it gave me the freedom to just name something really hard and to just actually name a feeling I had expressed and glossed on by and ran through and to just sit with it. And it was either in that context or I maybe mixed it up with another similar similar kind of calling out like, can you slow down and not run ahead to try to tie this all together, whatever, but just that that sentence you said in there.
00:02:35
Speaker
Tell me more about that. Tell me like I'm trying to understand if you're saying calling out like calling you out from a place of isolated pain. Yeah. Isolating pain. Yeah. Or calling you out as in to rebuke and correct. It was definitely not a rebuke and correct. And I would say I changed my words. It's more of an invitation. It's like you just said something.
00:03:01
Speaker
that that provokes in us a sadness and a desire to know more. What was that feeling? Can you stay with that? Because my brain does not want to stay with that pain naturally. My instinct is like, oh no, we can get to get past that. And in one of these settings, I forget which one it was, but I remember just
Chris's Childhood Trauma and Its Impact
00:03:23
Speaker
vocalizing. I was talking about interacting with my mother in the aftermath of conflict with my father and I remember just when I thought she was gonna die and I never expressed that to myself to you but literally my young self is watching my mother I'm like eight nine and she's in such pain and agony after some kind of fight and I thought what if she dies and and I don't know what's and and like that
00:03:49
Speaker
feeling had been trapped in me for 45 years at that point and had never been vocalized and These men and people sat with me and let me just grieve that, that that is deep, deep in me, that terror. and And then there's ways that I therefore would interact with this person because of that. Well, if you're afraid they're going to die, yeah you'll do about anything.
00:04:21
Speaker
um And so, it was a beginning to understand where a part of me got lost. Like, if I'm eight and think my main caregiver's gonna die, there ain't no room for me. Like, what does an eight-year-old, your ordinary eight-year-old need? It's like, I gotta be grown up. I mean, I used to get praised as being the man of the house and the good guy and the strong, whatever.
00:04:43
Speaker
I mean, I was like freaking eight, nine, 10. And it took other people sitting with me to go, do you see how sad that is? Do you see how, I mean, where are you? Where's the actual, where's the eight year old get to be eight and the nine year old get to be nine. And I just started weeping because that, that deep sadness just runs through and, and, and power so much of of how I operate. um And so there was something about, um,
00:05:10
Speaker
it wasn't ah It wasn't a rebuke, a calling out. It was, oh, there's so much there that deserves honor, that deserves people
Exploring Pain and Maladaptive Behaviors
00:05:20
Speaker
caring for. And so the phrase that came to me today, as you and I were talking about this, is these people said, essentially, they're not coming and saying, look at your idol, look what you did, look why you're after comfort, you're after this or that. They came in and said, I want to go with you into the furnace where your idols were forged.
00:05:38
Speaker
and I wanna sit with you and talk about the pain. It's like I wanna sit with you around the ash heap of what evil has tried to do with the story God has been writing for you. Yes.
00:05:52
Speaker
And I want to sit with you there and honor that that is the place where your heart was first or at least deeply broken. Yes. And we want to sit and wait for Jesus to do healing there. Yes. And another way we thought of ofph phrasing it is like rather than coming in and majoring on,
00:06:14
Speaker
my maladaptive behavior, to use the psychological term. I've found ways of coping and ways of adapting that served me well then, that were survival skills then, but they're they're not helpful later in adult life. But rather than majoring on, look at your maladaptive behavior, look at your bad choices, it's more, well, what were you having to adapt to? yeah What made you so in pain, desperate, alone, whatever, that you were grabbing on for lifelines, which is what anybody who struggled with addiction is of any sort is doing. Well, I think anybody in this world that has lived more than a year, well yes and maybe maybe younger than that, we are all looking for lifelines. Well, and Bill Maloney has a great line. We quote him often. he's He did the song. That's our intro. But he's got a line in one of his songs. you know
00:07:08
Speaker
We're all something about, everyone's a junkie since daylight's such a pain. We're all looking for some darkness this ah sticking to into our veins. For some of us it's lust, for others it is power, for others of us it's playing songs and drinking after hours. ah And he's just pointing out and yeah you could add shopping, you could add, look at my beautiful family, you could add my achievements, whatever. But we're all wanting something.
00:07:34
Speaker
to adapt, to survive, to to get away from the pain that's with us. And so what's powerful about these story-focused groups have been, it has been an embodiment of the grace and kindness of God to see that pain, to sit with it and let it be.
Healing Power of Group Settings
00:07:51
Speaker
It's incarnational, incarnation yeahs what I would say. I mean, that happens in individual counseling rooms all the time.
00:08:01
Speaker
but this is as a collective. Yes, there's something about, and I know, I think this is something I haven't read at all, you've read more than I have, but where Kirk Thompson is talking about like when Jesus said um you are the body of Christ or Paul says you're the body of Christ like that's that's more corporeal more embodied than we realized yeah like we really and I feel like that's where I've experienced this of a group of people and sometimes like the group leader has had to ask me the same thing like they asked you
00:08:32
Speaker
either poll the group or would you look at the faces of the people? Do you see judgment? Do you see shame? Is that what they're bringing you? And you look and it's not and you start to just melt. I can feel it again now just remembering back to it, recognizing I'm bringing so much judgment. There's so much judgment on me. That's why I'm going to razzle dazzle you. That's why I'm going to you know, sing and dance and distract and talk and use my words, because I don't want you to see the real me. And then there's people here who are seeing the real me and seeing the hurt and the pain and they're not running away and they're bringing kindness. It literally is, like you said, it's incarnational. It's that withness that we talked about this time of year. God with us. And it's easy to just sort of gloss over it. Oh, God with us, Jesus came to earth. Like, no, he was with us. The Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit,
00:09:23
Speaker
being in each of us. yeah Then when you're in a group, wouldn't it make sense? There's more of the Spirit of God there. yes i mean youre two or three the together i mean I'm just leaning if there's six of us and we all have the Spirit of God in us, then that's six times the Spirit of God then it when it's me alone.
00:09:41
Speaker
Well, and I would say also it's the particularities of the faces. I remember one of my group leaders saying something very wise. I was talking about a deep part of my struggle that I carried a lot of shame around. And I said, well, I've got something else. i I've got another group I'm going to go to and I'm going to share it there and it'll be funny. and And the leader says, you have it, Chris, what's the difference about this group? There's actually men and women in it. And this is where your shame runs so deep. You don't want to say this or you have so much fear around this because of your story with your mom and all that.
00:10:11
Speaker
and the invitation was you might get deeper level of hearing because it's not just faces but it's men and women. Well and it's the different way each individual person whether they be an individual man or an individual woman and but each of us individually I think have our unique ways of incarnating Jesus. Well yeah and there's some of it that also as you're hearing the other people's stories over the course of however long the groups play out. Sometimes they're crystallized into a week. Sometimes it's many times weekly, whatever, but you know their stories and you know where they've walked. And for, for some reason that makes their care mean more also. Oh yeah. You know, because like, I know where you've walked and the fact that you can see that and care about that in me is powerful. Right. Um, I don't want to go into the depth of this, but I mean, I've,
00:11:05
Speaker
as I've sat in groups with men who've vocalized particular difficulties, challenges, struggles they've had, one of the unexpected things, they've given me more compassion for my own dad and his story and things that he did and went through and all in a way I never could have imagined yeah because I've sat with men who who have operated similarly and it's different from me. um But I think this is also one way to illustrate it's it's helpful at different counseling. you know In counseling, it's easy to say,
00:11:33
Speaker
If you get a good, kind, empathetic response, I know that you also start to think, well, yeah, but I'm paying you and it's your job. And there's something more powerful when it's five, six other people who yeah ain't paying them. It's not their job. They're just on this journey with you. And they are really committed to being with you. Like there's something about this withness that feels, to me,
Intimacy and Embodiment in Group Healing
00:11:59
Speaker
revolutionary.
00:11:59
Speaker
Not that I haven't tasted aspects of it before but more consistently on a more deep level and I find myself more drawn and to be around people who are willing to go in those dark places with this kindness. Well because I think Jesus dwells in tombs. He dwells in the wilderness. Yes. He dwells with lepers. He dwells in broken places because those are the places where healing is needed. And when you sit with people who know they also are in those places and stations in life,
00:12:37
Speaker
I think they see Him and know Him differently. You know, as you say that too, that's speaking to one of the mysteries I've always had about life. So Jesus comes, He's born, and we really, you know, we get these little vignettes of His birth and He's 13 and runs, you know, where is He, all that. But there's so much nothing, so much, you know you know. Then His ministry starts, and what that just was, what you were just saying made me think,
00:13:01
Speaker
he basically decided, embodiment, it's time. I'm gonna fully be present. He's had to probably, he he he wasn't healing things and doing things. He wasn't bringing all his goodness. But when the time for his ministry came, when John came and all that, he starts bringing that embodiment and that's what changed. And then yeah, he he says some words and preaches to go with it. But I love how they display that in the chosen. He was ministering and doing things before anybody asked what he thought or what he should say.
00:13:31
Speaker
um And so there's this sense of partly because these these groups are so focused on the intimacy of each person's story. um And the sacredness. The sacredness of it, yes, yes. The marriage group we've done sort of monthly you know with just two or three other couples over a year plus. We've gotten to go into deeper places because we know we've built that intimacy and like we know where this woman's coming from or this man's coming from and there's such a,
00:14:03
Speaker
continuing kindness about it, of nobody's, oh, there you go again. I mean, we our our our bad behaviors, our our struggles have shown up. yeah in the group, but we we have a ah contact for dealing with them. And I think that's the other part that is beautiful about group work. Like if you meet together, and this is meant to be invitational, not scary, yeah but if you meet together long enough, people begin to see past your polished presentation. Yes. And you have a chance to be loved in those moments. Yes.
00:14:43
Speaker
And I think that's- It's deeply gospel centric. It is, it is. And I think the thing that's the other, the last thing I'd say that it sort of has been a consistent characteristic, and you tell me if you think differently, but the person who's facilitating, like a lot of Bible studies and, you know, community groups, things like that, which are good and have their place, 100%. But it's sort of everybody's kind of, you know, anybody could be leading it. It's just sort of, let's talk about, you know, this or that.
00:15:12
Speaker
These groups have gone places because the leader themselves has been places and has been to the journey of their story. At least those are the ones that have been most effective in my own journey. Yes. That's one of the things I sort of smile at when I'm going through my counseling studies and they're talking about, you know, counselor boundaries and how much you self-disclose and all that. And I'm just smiling because I'm like, I know both the individual counselors and the group settings that have been most helpful for me are where the counselor has let their guard down, has been willing to share, look where I have needed redemption, where I've needed healing, where I've needed care. Where I too am desperate and have been desperate for Jesus himself. And that's something I'm just really committed to. I'm not getting a counseling degree so that I get a whole but lot more information and knowledge and I become better
00:16:05
Speaker
I'm getting it because, okay, I gotta yeah gotta have this certification you know and licensure and all that, and I want that. But I feel like I'm being formed as a counselor by...
00:16:17
Speaker
the people who have been effective for me because they're on their journey, they're still being reaching new depths of healing through the same path. um Before we go, would you, though, speak to, I know you've mentioned that there's a common objection you hear in the counseling room, we've heard it sometimes when we've done it intensive, but like,
00:16:39
Speaker
um Do people ever kind of say, why are we doing this? I mean, this you just want us to hate our parents. We're just trying to cast a blame. Or drag out the past. Yeah. And I'm fine. um Look at me now. It didn't really affect me. So I think you know I would never. Well, first, I'm never going to force anybody to go to where they don't want to go. That's not my job. No. I will take them as far as they are willing to be led with integrity. But I do. um
00:17:10
Speaker
really resonate with scripture's admonition to honor our parents. Yes. That is very different than being honest. Like we can honor while we are honest. In fact, I would say that to lie about the stories we've lived,
00:17:31
Speaker
to be dishonest is actually highly dishonoring. Yeah, it's not very honoring. I mean, when our kids have spoken hard truths to us, I feel deeply honored that they would be willing to tell me that. And to risk relationship, yeah. Versus is living with a wedge between us. Yes. And I have no chance to change or grow or love them better and differently.
00:17:56
Speaker
Yes, it's honoring to offer somebody a chance to improve relationship, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so I think, you know, recently I was talking about this with a client, and I said, you know, if you don't admit your leg is broken, you're not gonna go to the doctor to get the bones set. Right. You're just gonna keep going, dang, I got a bummed leg, it hurts. You're not gonna really get good care.
00:18:25
Speaker
Okay, and so again, like I said earlier, it is the truth that sets us free.
Balancing Honoring Parents with Past Pain
00:18:31
Speaker
And so if we will honestly name what we have loved, and look, I'm not gonna ask anybody to do what I'm not willing to do. that's a And so to name anything about the pain of your past,
00:18:45
Speaker
yeah I've got to be willing to admit and own fully that I am also a parent as much as I was a child with parents. Yes, yes. And so I think the two have to be held separately. I have to be willing to be humbled. And um so our fireplace is beeping. I have to be willing to be humbled enough to um honor what my children honestly tell me.
00:19:16
Speaker
And I also have to be honest enough to take to God what I've actually lived as a child. Yeah, and I'll share a quick story sort of on that. I remember I had a relative who, when I was starting to even begin to do any kind of counseling work, I remember them saying, you know why do you want to live in the past? you just keep you What does it do to live in the past? You always think about the past. And I remember saying,
00:19:43
Speaker
I'm really not, I don't want to live in the past. I am trying to maybe figure out why the past feels like it keeps showing up and biting me on the ass. yeah and And I feel like I am operating in ways that I don't feel like I'm in control of. And that I at some point lose control and I'm not myself and I don't feel like I'm giving the best to my family or whatever it is or to my job, whatever.
00:20:09
Speaker
I would like to understand that better so that maybe it doesn't keep happening. and That was a real turning point in my relationship with this person where I'm like, You know, they didn't want a lot of that analysis or in introspection on that for reasons that later I began to understand. But for me, i I couldn't help but have, you know, I need to do something. I need to figure out what's happening. And and it I would say counseling was a great beginning to understanding and seeing, but it got better and deeper and more when in a group context. when and And it's really just being loved
00:20:47
Speaker
that deeply by multiple people. Well, and I think, you know, our our calling here for healing is to be detectives in our own lives. Yes. And a lot of times the clues are in the past, who but we're not there to make everyone into a perpetrator we need to jail. Right. But rather to paint the picture for what has happened that can take us straight to Jesus, like the pain that can inform what we need from a savior. yeah And so I think that with good counseling, you have one person helping you piece together clues. yeah And in a group,
00:21:32
Speaker
Hopefully you have a whole set of people. Yes. I mean, when I lead groups, and it's the same in the individual counseling sessions I do, but everybody bears a stunning wisdom. Yes. And so when I lead groups, more of the time than not, they bring each other more truth just with my creating the space and the context and outlining what will and won't be a part of the group as far as we're not going to give each other advice or you know shoot each other down with Bible verses but rather what this group will entail. yeah They are sending more wisdom and love
00:22:20
Speaker
between themselves than I ever could offer. One of my favorite images of that they'll always have is Dan Allender watching him at Recovery Week where the last night they had us all bring these gifts and bless each other. And to watch the look on his face, he was just smiling because he's like, this isn't my content. This isn't me saying anything. He is such a blesser. Yeah. And that idea of what you just said is creating that space. People now are getting more conversant with the idea of holding space, which I used to think was a silly idea. I didn't understand what that means, but it's really creating this context where this kind of authentic relating can happen. And he was like a kid in a candy store just watching other people bless each other and speaking to their stories in ways that are greater than what any one of us can do. Yep. And just the humility of that and the power of that was beautiful. I sat in that same context with a man who has lots of words and speaks and is on a podcast and all this and lots of people like him.
00:23:26
Speaker
the moment we shared was one of silence and smiling and joy. And you're like, you can't make this up. yeah you know It just is creating that context for it. Now, you did that recently, I know, with your advent retreat. um And it sounds like from what you're from what I heard, you know, people experience that as well that rituals are another way and we'll talk about met that maybe another time how a ritual is a way that we can make space for our story to be kind of lifted up and worked through. Yeah I mean I think my journey over the past few years has been more to learn to listen and to listen to the spirit of God inside others
00:24:09
Speaker
and to listen to Jesus himself. And so that's what often rituals, if you will, offer. I think I want to say, before you end, one more thing about the honoring your father and mother thing. And this just sort of came to me. So I'm i'm going off script a little bit, but in this strange way, I have actually been coming to a place where I can better honor my father.
00:24:36
Speaker
where I lived for many years with hatred and resentment. And even though I would say I'd forgiven him and I was working through this, but it was only as I became more honest about some things in navigating relationship with my mother that I gained compassion for him. And I actually am at a place where I can honor him and want to, um which was not happening before. um and And there's a sense in which not being honest about the full story of my parents, I wasn't honoring anybody because nobody's really seen.
00:25:11
Speaker
um And so that's the other thing I would offer to people who are wrestling with that. Like, can you still honor your parents after naming the hard things and the hardship? And I would say, yes. And it will actually be- I think it fades the way. It does. It does. And it will be real. Yeah. Not a, I feel like I have to do this. I think a heart that knows it has been broken.
00:25:34
Speaker
can stitch itself back together with elastic strings and you can love far more deeply and far more vigorously and generously.
Upcoming Events and Opportunities
00:25:43
Speaker
So as we close, let me just let people know about two things. Please. So in the name of groups, um, on January 11th, a dear friend,
00:25:57
Speaker
um and I are doing a women's evening at our house here. um Tiffany is such a lovely woman and she's also a masterful potter. So we're gonna be eating on her dishes, having a really delicious meal. um And we're gonna talk about what it could look like for each of us to step into 2025.
00:26:26
Speaker
with Micah 6a as our guide. So what would it mean to do justice, to love mercy, to walk humbly with others and with our God in our particular corners of the world. And so we're going to look back at what God has used to individually form us, both highs and lows.
00:26:51
Speaker
and how that formation might come to bear through MICA 68 for each of us next year. Sounds like a great way to start 2025. That is going to be January 11th, the Saturday evening, and we have room for 10 women.
00:27:06
Speaker
And so people can go ahead and reach out to Elise or to me if you don't have my assistance information um so that we can go ahead and put you on a list. um The second thing is you and I are planning to do a marriage story group. yeah And we will have room for three couples for that.
00:27:31
Speaker
And my guess is that would start in February or March. That's to be determined. And we would meet um six to eight times. And it will be helping each spouse learn more of how the stories that have formed each other and their spouse now show up on the stage of their marriage. Yes. And so again, reach out. It's going to be very small. We're going to start with one. Reach out if you would want to be first to know the details.
00:28:10
Speaker
And it will have the the actual rhythm of it, how frequently we'll meet, whether it's in person or virtual, that will largely be determined by the people who are most interested because we have people that, that you know, some of your clients are you know not even in North Carolina.
00:28:29
Speaker
And so it will depend on who we have interest in. And when you know we're going to start with one group um and and see how it goes. We've got some good ideas for content. But the idea will be, and we've been in a group doing this for a while, it's just sharing. um you know It's a mix of who we are, and where we've come from, and very much rooted in how is it showing up today. yeah The best moments are when people you know come to a group like this and say, well, yesterday, this is what happened. yeah And we can go there together with this safety, with this care, with this, man, we are for both of you. And there's something powerful about that where
00:29:11
Speaker
Um, there's no ganging up on the husbands, ganging up on the wives. There's no, it's, it's everybody up at all. Yeah. It's everybody other than ganging up to love. Maybe that's a, that's a good, like that that it's a good game. Um, it's an incarnational gang. How about that? Well, uh,
00:29:29
Speaker
Our youngest, when they were little, I don't know if you remember this, but had Super Ella and her gang. And her gang. And so she had a little under the bed box with wheels with all her stuffed animals in it, and she attached some sort of leash to drag it around the house and say, Super Ella and her gang are here. That's right. It was a supportive gang. It was a very supportive gang. It was not an M16 or whatever. All right.
Podcast's Affiliation with Nurture Counseling
00:29:54
Speaker
So thank you, guys. We'll be back with you soon.
00:29:59
Speaker
The Surviving Saturday podcast is brought to you by Nurture Counseling PLLC, a counseling teaching and training center based out of Charlotte, North Carolina. We help families flourish one story at a time. Nurture Counseling provides counseling, counseling intensive for couples, conflict resolution coaching, story work groups, seminars, workshops, and retreats to provide a safe and welcoming context for exploring the agonizing experiences of pain, brokenness, and evil that disrupt our lives.
00:30:26
Speaker
and that God often uses to nurture deeper trust and intimacy with Him and with each other. You can find us online at www.nurturecounseling.net