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00:00:01
Hope for Any Marriage (Yes, Even Yours!) with Steve & Lisa Call (Pt. 2)
62 Plays18 days ago
Here's a crazy thought: The hardest places in your marriage--the most maddening merry-go-rounds of misery, mixed motives, meanness, malcontendedness, and missed moments--might actually hold the key to discovering greater intimacy and connection. (Yep. Read that again.)
Hang with us here. What if our rough edges, our raw spots, our "triggers," if you will-- are not just random, or merely "sin patterns" we need to repent of, or weird personality quirks? What if there is a reason that each of us loves what we love, and hates what we hate? Doesn't it make sense that those nagging "bad habits" or addictions or relational patterns that we can't break free from were learned somewhere, from someone, and for some purpose? And if so, could the path to lasting freedom involve deeper exploration of where they came from?
Put another way, the idols that our hearts have looked to for deliverance had to have been forged in a furnace at some point. If that's true, then what might we learn and how might we grow, by going back into that fiery furnace--but with with wise guidance, kind care, and worthy travelling companions?
In in this episode, Wendy and Chris and their dear friends, Steve & Lisa Call, explore the transformative power of marriage "story work," and how it can rekindle hope for a relationship, catalyze greater attunement to one another, cultivate a more enduring resilience, and deepen intimacy. There's also practical guidance on what it looks like for couples to engage one another's most formative stories by themselves, with a counselor, and in marriage story group contexts.
The Calls are the founders of The Reconnect Institute, and co-authors, with Dan and Becky Allender, of an incredibly insightful and practical new book, The Deep Rooted Marriage: Cultivating Intimacy, Healing, and Delight--a book that provides encouragement and practical guidance for building, nurturing, and even repairing a marriage.
Steve is a longtime counselor and counselor educator at the Seattle School of Theology & Psychology, and Lisa is a story work coach who has completed multiple levels of training in narrative focused trauma care at The Allender Center. Through The Reconnect Institute, they have worked with countless couples to dig up the roots of recurrent conflict, and provide opportunities for reflection, renewal, and resurrection.
Where to find our guests:
Recommended
Transcript
Surviving Saturday: Holding onto Hope
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to Surviving Saturday, a podcast about holding on to hope in the midst of life's difficulties, disappointments, and dark seasons. Times like that remind us of the agony and despair the followers of Jesus felt on the Saturday of Easter weekend, in between the Friday on which he was crucified and the Sunday on which he rose from the dead.
00:00:23
Speaker
That Sunday forever changed the way that humans can relate to God. But what does it look like to be honest about the very real pain we experience in the in-between? To fervently cling to hope in the God who promised us His peace and His presence at times when He feels distant or even cruel.
Growth Through Life's Challenges
00:00:40
Speaker
I'm Wendy Osborne, a licensed counselor in Charlotte, North Carolina. And I'm her husband Chris, a marriage mediator, conflict resolution coach, and trauma-informed story work coach. Join us each episode for authentic conversations about how life not turning out as we'd expected has created the contextual soil for the growth of a tenacious hope in the resurrection and in a God who is still making all things new.
00:01:07
Speaker
One of the parts of the book I'm going to read that just was so touching to me, and I don't remember which of the four of you wrote it, but it was a joint effort. So it's your thought regardless, I'm sure. um Y'all wrote, your marriage is where redemption is meant to grow.
00:01:27
Speaker
God intends for it to not merely be good or happy, but transformative. you will become who your marriage exposes and invites you to be.
00:01:38
Speaker
This is a far richer and more compelling vision of marriage than only getting along or resolving conflict through compromise. You are either becoming more like Jesus together and because of each other, or you are not.
00:01:53
Speaker
And so that to me is just a a flashing billboard of what are we doing? And so I would love to hear y'all speak to what's that been like for y'all to either usher one another into the heart of God and becoming more like him or not.
Beauty and Brokenness in Marriage
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah. The first thing I think of is being willing to bring my whole self, you know, into the marriage. Whereas I think maybe,
00:02:29
Speaker
when you first meet and you're first dating and then you're first married, you're just trying to bring your best parts, right? You're trying to ignore and pretend like the other parts don't exist and hope that they don't come out, you know? And you're just thinking, I'm going to try, i'm going to do really good. I'm just going to try really hard. and um And so we get attached to that. We get attached to being that false self where it looks really good. And then these parts just keep nagging at us. And I think there's been this,
00:02:59
Speaker
I don't know at what point it happened. It's been a process, but where we've begun to just open up to like, we, we have a whole self and there's beauty and there's brokenness, you know, and it's all there and you have it too. And I, and I can't point the finger at you and you can't point the finger at me. And, and, and as far as being image bearers, like sometimes that feel feels overwhelming. And sometimes that just feels like, thank God, you know, because I can't do it.
00:03:25
Speaker
it's not It's not in my own strength. It's not in my own gifting, but it's like, it's part of who we are and like claiming I'm beautiful and broken and you're beautiful and broken and we're going to accept it all. And I think if we take a lot of energy trying to keep the bad parts from coming out or from having a bad response or whatever, but when we can embrace that and go, you know what? It's part of my family. It's part of my heritage. It's part of being human.
00:03:50
Speaker
and and And then I think that also is a shame diffuser when we can begin to receive that. and And that's, to me, where redemption began to take root for us.
00:04:02
Speaker
Yeah, I really like what you read. the It's when somebody ref reflects what we wrote. ah It reminds me of of maybe a moment or two or where we are.
00:04:14
Speaker
the computer we were in front of or the environment around us. So when you when you read those words, i'm I'm almost back to that moment of of what it was like to write words together with Dan and Becky and Lisa. And I i think redemption for me and for us, it it is a profound privilege ah to be in a ah relationship where that's even potentially possible.
00:04:36
Speaker
I think that's one of the highlights in what you just read. it it It shifts the trajectory of our marriage if we allow that to be the potential hope. i I have wrestled for years in my own family, but also at times early on in our marriage where I felt like I wasn't enough.
00:04:53
Speaker
I felt like and at times the the who I was wasn't really what Lisa was drawn to, that it was more about my production, ah fulfilling needs, et cetera. And what I have discovered, which is just catches me off guard often, is that Lisa's love for me is not about what I do.
00:05:18
Speaker
And I, I at times can't make sense of that. That Lisa's attunement, her love, her movement toward me is about the who of me rather than the what of me. And that, that to me is, is what I think we are so in love with both with each other and in our faith with Jesus is that there's a, there's a unconditionality of who I am, the love for who I am versus what I do.
00:05:44
Speaker
And that I think has dramatically shifted the way we engage, the way we relate, particularly over the last maybe two to three years.
Healing and Personal Stories in Marriage
00:05:54
Speaker
Well, and I would say, i feel like we've been, and I have been beneficiaries of that, of you all sharing that generously. generously And really, i would say at the workshops with you and Allenders, that shifting of the trajectory has has really happened and taken root.
00:06:12
Speaker
um in that, you know, we, as you all describe, you can be the agent of redemption. You can be the face of God to the other and the face that brings delight and brings, I am for you. I see you. i am, I'm with you.
00:06:29
Speaker
um Talk about this dynamic. For us, at least it felt like we weren't really, and don't know if we weren't able or we couldn't quite grasp that in terms of giving that kindness and care to one another until we really each did a fair amount of individual healing where we actually had to go on deep journeys and sort of into our own story and have people help us learn how to give kindness to ourselves. And so I wonder if you could speak to sort of that interplay of,
00:07:00
Speaker
doing your own work individually and when, and if you can trying to come together and everybody may not have it on the same trajectory and time table. We didn't always either, but you speak to that dynamic, the individual and the, and the couple dynamic.
00:07:17
Speaker
Yeah, that that's exactly what I was thinking when Steve was talking that I, you know, as he was saying, he felt more loved. I think that there's also this interplay between he had more compassionate love for himself and And I i had it for myself as well. And that's why i think, because you have to be able to receive it.
00:07:36
Speaker
um and if you And if you're filled up with shame and you are trying to be Enneagram three and you're just trying to achieve and you're just all about productivity and you and you aren't, it's so hard to see your value. And so we get so stuck in those categories.
00:07:52
Speaker
But when we can have a compassion and an empathy toward our own selves and our kindness toward our own stories and understanding them, how they've shaped us, we we're more of a receptive vessel to the other.
00:08:05
Speaker
um Because if you're not a receptive vessel, it doesn't matter how round and round you go about whatever it is that you're trying to convince the other of, you know you're not able to receive it.
00:08:16
Speaker
And so it's such a process. But then also when you say go and do your and individual work, i think sometimes that also can't be done alone because we draw each other into that. We we listen to each other's stories. We ask more questions.
00:08:31
Speaker
what was that like? How was that? You know? And so there is a part that we also play for the other to be able to sink down into those stories and remember what our bodies experienced and what we felt like. And, and so it is, um,
00:08:47
Speaker
something that we've done together. And so it's hard to say exactly where the line is drawn. But but but I think for us and from the way you guys have spoken to in your own story and for lots of couples, that's really helpful to pursue some individual, like what we reference as story work or therapeutic work or some form ah of exploration.
00:09:08
Speaker
that isn't necessarily the responsibility of the spouse or partner. And I think that's been really helpful for us. And we both have been in a different ah context for that different journey.
00:09:19
Speaker
um But I love what you said. They said that what did you say? The receptive? What was that phrase? did You just said receptive vessel, a receptive vessel. It's a really beautiful phrase of how we How we're honored to receive what the other has to offer when we've allowed ourselves the kindness and care to explore. What is my resistance about? What is my shame about?
00:09:39
Speaker
yeah what What is this unaddressed trauma that i that's been unnamed or unspoken unnamed? ah hasn't been revealed. And so I think that's been a significant part for us is we've been willing to open the door, ah the closet door to what we wanted to be hidden, what we didn't want to be seen. yeah and And as risky and as crazy and as freaking overwhelming as that has been, I think it's been worth it.
00:10:02
Speaker
Oh, I just want to say, i feel like it got triggered today even because i wasn't a receptive vessel today.
Outside Perspectives and Processing Trauma
00:10:09
Speaker
We went for a walk in i realized it was colder than it was and i i go I'm going to run back and get my hat.
00:10:16
Speaker
And Steve was like, well, you should have got your hat. And then I felt like, oh, okay, fine. I don't need my hat. you know and i was just And he's like, no, no, it's okay. Go ahead. The dog jumped on it. Just like this thing happened. you know and i was and i And I got all like, okay, fine. I'm not going to go get it.
00:10:31
Speaker
you know And I just was like that little part of me that rises up. So one of my things was being right and doing the right thing and feeling like I have to do the right thing. And all of a sudden that got triggered.
00:10:42
Speaker
here today, you know? And I was like, no, I'm not going to do it. And he he was like, no, go get your hat. You know? And I was just like, right I had a little inside of me. It was so simple, but then I'm like, fine. I'm going to get my hat. I realized he's saying this in kindness, you know, but are we it still rises up, you know, just it's in there.
00:11:00
Speaker
Well, I was thinking, as you said, Steve, it crystallized something for me. Cause when I was referring to like individual work, I mean, in in in a sense we've had to go and individually we've been in a group where we've processed stories of trauma and what hit me as you were describing that is one of the benefits of doing that i'm in a room full of seven people like an nftc training group or something and the people who are there um don't bring anything you know they they bring their own stories but they're not windy and they're not bringing you know our story there's
00:11:35
Speaker
Something I think was helpful for each of us in the freedom just to process our own story of pain and harm and and um and the effects of that in the presence of other people.
00:11:47
Speaker
who could give that care and that kindness because they're not going to be married to me two days and three days and 10 weeks you know later. And so there's no pressure. there's no you you have to This is in the dynamic of, well, yeah, but how are we doing life you know here and there? There was something about the group dynamic that was super
Pacing Reflection and Growth
00:12:06
Speaker
helpful. Other people could care for me in a way that Wendy couldn't, not because she's not a brilliant and in fact gifted caregiver because she is,
00:12:14
Speaker
But our wounds are so, you know, timed and set up to land on each other's that we we couldn't go into deeper places with each other, even though we're pretty attuned people and the heart was there.
00:12:28
Speaker
But we couldn't go there because our stuff is in the room. Also, we go into these group contexts and it gets worked out and other people are bringing that care. pure and, and not with, this is how this is going to affect a relationship.
00:12:41
Speaker
And there's something healing about that. And then we learn, and then we can come back. And that has enabled us to have more curiosity conversations with other people. And and you know you don't have to convince the other person because at least, you know, five or six other people have said, I see your pain and I'm with you. it And so it kind of lets you settle into yourself. Like you may or may not see it right now, but I know it's there. I'm not making this up that I feel this way. Does that capture it somehow? Yeah.
00:13:06
Speaker
Um, So we're wondering if you all would speak to kind of how you envision people. What are the different ways that couples might use this book and and ways to explore some of this material, talking about how you get curious about each other's story, but also how you create safety and how you create a different environment, a different kind of conversation. Kind of speak to that a little ways that that could happen.
00:13:28
Speaker
yeah one of the things that came out of the writing, we didn't really envision this, but about halfway through in the writing of the book, uh, we were invited to consider, the, what we just call the companion guide.
00:13:42
Speaker
And the, could the companion guide is, I think this resource that individuals can use and also groups can use, couples can use maybe in a a marriage story group or, you know, other forms of group, but it really is a, is a, um,
00:13:57
Speaker
It's an invitation for couples and for individuals to utilize some of the material from the book. what One of the the things that is so key, I would just say foundational in how people might work with the material that we've offered is is pace.
00:14:14
Speaker
we we In the companion guide, we write it that it would be something that couples or individuals would go through maybe over three to four months, that it's not something that we just sit down and read in a one or two day setting, but but it's something to metabolize over time.
00:14:29
Speaker
That's an important feature of, I think, of safety. when you When you ask that, Chris, that safety comes through structure, safety comes through consistency, safety comes through reflection. And so one of our hopes in both the book and the companion guide is that couples would use it as a space and place of reflection.
00:14:46
Speaker
You know, they might read ah a chapter, they might read a few pages, and then we come back and reflect. What do you wear? ah takeaway. What do you notice? Anything that you felt or anything that you experienced? And so there's, I would just say there's a wide range of possibility in how people can, readers can engage. But one ah one of our hopes is that it's that it both touches their own marriage, but it also touches those around them, that that couples would invite others into this, what we call story work around paying attention to how does your past pay pay play literally a part in the present that we're often not aware of.
00:15:26
Speaker
Can you say a little bit more for people who are unfamiliar with a marriage story group, what you mean by that?
Safe Communities and Sharing Authentically
00:15:36
Speaker
Yeah, it, these started for us when we after our first marriage story intensive where we had eight couples come in for three days we started offering as a follow-up these marriage story groups for couples that We're part of the intensive. and really really, I think our hope is, if we were to fast forward, I think that's the hope of a lot of what we're doing in the present.
00:15:59
Speaker
It's that couples would invite two to three to four other couples to a group setting, to a group experience, where each couple has an hour or so to just share a particular story that occurred maybe over the last month or two,
00:16:14
Speaker
and And it is meant to be a place of reflection that the other couples get the privilege, the honor to speak into what they notice, what they might be aware of. ah Maybe where this couple that's sharing feels particularly stuck ah in a particular conflict, that that the voices and the faces of other others reminds that couple that they're not alone in the journey.
00:16:39
Speaker
And if we were to say, what what is one primary takeaway? and And even for the sinna and I in a marriage story group, it's really that we are reminded that we're not alone. And I think for most couples, that's often the the sorrow, the heartache, because it feels like at times we're alone in this.
00:16:54
Speaker
Nobody gets it. Nobody's with us. And so if we want to use the word community, we can, but I think it's more than that. ah it' It's literally exposure, ah exposure to what we are careful to reveal. And yet in the context of being known,
00:17:09
Speaker
I think that's where the safety comes and also the validation of our struggle. Yeah. i was thinking about the word safety and um in them the ministry that we've been a part of and and in the book.
00:17:22
Speaker
And I think part of that safety is inviting like couples, inviting them to come as they are like that. There's not this ideal or this perfect, or we're not going to get to a certain level of oh, now you've arrived in your marriage. You know, it's not, that's not the focus at all. And I think what creates safety is like what you're saying that, hey, we fight too. Oh, hey, we had a problem too. You know, like there's this isolation that couples get into because we just, especially i think in the church where, what are going to say? how are you guys doing? We're fine. We're great. You know,
00:18:00
Speaker
And so there's not a lot of places to say we're really struggling. Like this is really hard work. And that's what we in the very beginning had hoped to create because we realized that's what's real. That's what's actually happening. And we don't we don't have this high standard of what it should look like. We're we're just saying this is what it is.
00:18:18
Speaker
And it's it's a struggle. And um so the safety, I think, is where you gather together and you maybe gather in this book and go, we're we're telling you stories of how it's really hard.
00:18:30
Speaker
and how we've struggled and, and how can we embrace what's, what's really actually there. And I think that's, again, the beauty of the story work is that it's actually data. It's, it's not something you can change.
00:18:42
Speaker
It's not something you can, you know, go back and give you the shiny version. Like it is what it is. And so now, now what do we do? And it feels really real, which feels safe. I think there's just not a lot of areas in our life where we can go and be real and and create that safety with others and have that containment of going, we're going to take each other for where we're at.
00:19:04
Speaker
Well, I had two thick quick thoughts sort in response to that. One is we've all seen where when couples do become oftentimes a couple, one person can see the unhealthy dynamics in the other's family before they can.
00:19:19
Speaker
And what can happen if you do it that way, it becomes weaponized. It becomes, Oh, here you go. Being your dad again, you don't want to be that, you know, We've heard people you know speak to that. And so story is that's one thing I'd say story is going to come up. It's just if you're not doing it in a purposeful way and giving it containers, it's going to come up in a weaponized way, which does harm and damage.
00:19:40
Speaker
And you have to be really careful how you wield this stuff. um But the other thing I was thinking as you were talking, we should emphasize that you also in the book and you guys in your work with us, you've also emphasized there's a positive aspect of story as well.
00:19:54
Speaker
And I love how you emphasize the stories also tell the stories that drew you together. Also tell the stories that how you noticed each other and what was different about them, because there is something of the goodness of God in that. It's not, ha ha, you got suckered into marrying this person who's going to trigger you all the time. Ha ha ha, it's evil.
00:20:13
Speaker
It's God is able to know there was goodness that drew you together also. and And that's a source of hope. But you speak to that as well. i was going to get your thoughts. Well, what came up for me as y'all were talking is you kept using the word safety.
00:20:28
Speaker
And i think that's essential if you're going to venture into this territory to let Jesus work in your marriage. Because i think a lot of times as believers, we sort of create a context for like the Christian marriage Olympics.
00:20:45
Speaker
And it's like, look at how good mine is. Or we used to struggle, but now we don't. yeah And it's easy to pigeonhole each other as the ones with the hard marriage. Yeah.
00:20:57
Speaker
And that's not God honoring or growth provoking. And so i feel like, you know, you want to be, we want to be and are blessed to be on the journey with people who also want Jesus to be redeeming themselves, each other and their marriage.
00:21:16
Speaker
And when you're in that kind of company, there's nothing you have to show off about Jesus. Like you're just, putting yourself under his good hands and encouraging each other to not be threatened by the need for that.
00:21:32
Speaker
So i I just always say it's not just community, but safe community. Where people will fight for you and not look down on you.
00:21:44
Speaker
Yeah.
Advocacy and Being Known in Marriage
00:21:45
Speaker
Yeah. love that. I love that, Wendy. I think that's just so essential is that there but we have an advocate. Yes, in Jesus himself, but also in the face and the body of the other that is meant to be.
00:21:58
Speaker
the safe one, the safe experience. And so am I, am I known? Am I seen? Am I love for who I am rather than, you know, what I, what I produce? ah Is there judgment toward me for what I'm not?
00:22:11
Speaker
I think that's the heartache and the struggle for so many of us, but also for so many couples that are in that maybe darker place. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just messy. It's messy. It's complex whenever we gather together with anybody. So we're not here to say,
00:22:27
Speaker
Oh, and you're going to find these great groups and you're going to gather there together and everybody's going to be safe. No, it's very complex. Yeah. And it's messy. And so I think you, you know, you were broken and, and then, and then that Jesus works in that.
00:22:45
Speaker
and yeah we And there's beauty and. Yeah. I was going to speak to you how just what you and and Dan have really. cultivated and what's and been inspired us is the honesty about the broken while still holding the, the hope of the delight of what we're meant for.
00:23:06
Speaker
Um, and you, you would define, I think in the book, there's a place where you describe what delight is and how it's more than mere happiness or optimism or positivity. It comes from a gratitude found in a sense of wonder. It's a childlike joy in the beat of a moment surprises us with goodness.
00:23:24
Speaker
um And and yet you got named the dynamic that we sometimes want to deny that we want that, that we need it And we don't even want to let ourselves hope that's possible. And I would say that's one thing that working with you guys and understand sort of awakened in us.
00:23:40
Speaker
31 years into the marriage, there's sort of ah been a reawakening of a sense of delight, of playfulness. Like, wait a minute, this is this can be fun. As much as it can be maddening, as much as Dan says, it you know, it can be a taste of hell if we let it go that direction. But it can actually, there's been moments of joy oh yeah where we feel like we actually are.
00:24:00
Speaker
it At one point, I'm like, how can you get more intimate? What do you mean? We've Made love. We've had children. We've been in the hospital together. How much more? but But there always is more intimacy. There's something more.
00:24:12
Speaker
And that that feels both encouraging. It makes it also feel less daunting, less like I got to work on my marriage, you know, which feels like... i That word delight has been, i think, again, ah an area for us that has grown tremendously over the last couple of years.
00:24:31
Speaker
It wasn't necessarily a word that we integrated or used in teaching or in writing, but I wrote about this in and and one of the the chapters where Lisa and i went to this ah favorite beach that we love to go to, and there's a cliff on the side of the beach.
00:24:49
Speaker
And Lisa loves to climb and and she just scampers up this 30 foot cliff and I'm watching her from the bottom. And if she could have seen my face, if you could see my face, it it was one of just pure joy, but also pure delight.
00:25:06
Speaker
And I think that that captures what we invite both ourselves, readers, others is, but where are you captured? What captures you? ah Where do you find delight?
00:25:18
Speaker
what What is it that it maybe seems so ordinary to you and maybe isn't? but But I love that paradigm that we're in, that yes, brokenness, but where's their beauty?
00:25:29
Speaker
Where is their delight? ah Where is their goodness? And that that is something I think that our eyes have become more open to i didnt more in the recent past than early on.
00:25:41
Speaker
But I think that's our hope for readers is that something of delight would be recaptured, would be remembered, would be re-experienced. and And I think that's how we bring the face of God to one another.
Intimacy and Connection
00:25:55
Speaker
really You know, that idea of deep delight,
00:26:00
Speaker
Like, you know, the the the quote I read earlier about God has more in mind than just you get along well or you fight fairly or you compromise appropriately, but more these deeper things of like, do you delight and have a sense of awe and wonder for each other?
00:26:23
Speaker
Because that's a part of the arc of redemption. Mm-hmm. And i I don't want to keep hammering on the story work, but I really do actually, because I don't know anything like, ah sure, you're going to maybe hone your tools, you're going to fight better and all that.
00:26:41
Speaker
But there is nothing like being known for some of the very tender places of our, you know, our young selves, that when somebody understands and goes, oh,
00:26:56
Speaker
my goodness, that's what happened to you? Or that's what you experienced? Or there's there's such tenderness and delight in being known in those very, very young, tender places.
00:27:09
Speaker
um I just think that's the intimacy that we're talking about. It's not... okay, we're going to do this work so that we can you know we can do better. whenever There's just something that touches our soul. And I know you know even couples that haven't been like, quote unquote, attracted to each other anymore, there hasn't been you know sexual intimacy or whatever, but then there's something that gets activated when there's a tenderness for the other in some of these stories of hurt. It almost seems counterintuitive, but there's something when you feel so known and so cared for,
00:27:45
Speaker
you know, in this way that you've never even think to tell some of these stories because you were five years old or you were four or whatever, you were seven, you were 13. But then when the other attunes to that and can really come close to you and come near and there's that young delight, I don't know. I just can't, there's nothing like that.
00:28:02
Speaker
And the way that it blossoms in a marriage. Well, think, yeah, you also, I mean, i know I've caught myself more and I've felt it more from Wendy also, knowing the stories of where we come from better, when we see each other like really leaning into living into our goodness, we weren we were more able to say, i saw what you just did and I know where you came from and you weren't set up.
00:28:27
Speaker
You know, everything in your family story was not to give or not to hope or not to risk. And you just did. and it was gorgeous. It was beautiful because it didn't just, that's not just how y'all rolled.
00:28:41
Speaker
um The way that like the relationship you've cultivated with our kids is tremendous. um It's a showing up in a way that is really powerful.
00:28:51
Speaker
Yeah. um things like that. and And you, you sort of see, you can start to see the other as more of a, they're actually, you know, not, oh my gosh, they failed again. They're not doing this. It's like, wait a minute, look what they overcame and look what they did.
00:29:05
Speaker
And there's this sort of changing spirit of, ah you can do more. I want you, i want the best in you despite where you've been. Am
Awe, Wonder, and Relationship Enhancement
00:29:15
Speaker
I capturing right? Yeah. I mean, too I think it's like watching evil lose its stronghold and just watching the talents fall out of it's not going to have the last word.
00:29:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like you defined the word, a which is such a hard and word to define, but yeah it feels like, ah, when you see that and you think, wow,
00:29:39
Speaker
yeah Well, and and that's a word we denigrated sort of, you know, back in the 80s when awesome became like the word cool, you know, everything is awesome. It's awesome. It's all like, well, we you know, not everything can be awesome. It kind of robs it of the meaning.
00:29:54
Speaker
Awe-inspiring. should be reserved, you know, for majestic things. um but Well, we're at a close, but I just want to thank y'all again for spending time with us.
00:30:08
Speaker
And I'd love it if you'd let people know some of your upcoming offerings and also how they would connect with you if they would like to. Thanks for that, Wendy and Chris. It's been a delight to be with you guys. We can be found on the website. It's called the Reconnect Institute.
00:30:28
Speaker
ah That's where our offerings are, where resources are. so that's the best place to find us. We're also on Instagram at Reconnect Marriage. That's another way people can access some of what we offer. Okay.
00:30:41
Speaker
Yeah. and And then the book comes out. Is it, is it right? The book is January 21st? Yeah. 21st. So a week from Tuesday. Yes. Just about a week away. So available for pre-order and then it is released on the 21st. And we'll we'll be in Utah February 7th and 8th. If you know, there's a marriage conference there. And then we have our intensives coming up one in April and in July and then next September. So you can look that up on the website as well.
00:31:13
Speaker
Well, and we'll put a big plug in for the intensive. You all create such a welcoming atmosphere with the barn, the food. um If you've ever, listeners, ever been to a conference where you just kind of get serviceable food and it's like...
00:31:29
Speaker
It's not that. When you're going to do story work, you guys get, it's important to have some good food, to have some, there was also some of our fondest memories of being on your back porch outside the barn there are some of the laughter, some of the stories that that were told. And as we were getting to know people's stories of how they made each other, I remember some just uproarious, just, you know, as well as,
00:31:53
Speaker
as well as people going with each other into hard places. And there's just something about other people being able to see what you can't see yeah in terms of goodness and delight and challenge. That's you all created a great environment for that. We're, we're the beneficiaries and we're grateful and hope y'all are able to do it much and often. Thank you. Those are really kind words. Thank you.
00:32:15
Speaker
Yeah. All right. Take good care guys. Thank y'all so much. Great to be to be with you guys. Grateful for you guys. Thank you. Thanks.
Support from Nurture Counseling
00:32:26
Speaker
The Surviving Saturday podcast is brought to you by Nurture Counseling PLLC, a counseling teaching and training center based out of Charlotte, North Carolina. We help families flourish one story at a time.
00:32:37
Speaker
Nurture Counseling provides counseling, counseling intensive for couples, conflict resolution coaching, story work groups, seminars, workshops, and retreats to provide a safe and welcoming context for exploring the agonizing experiences of pain, brokenness, and evil that disrupt our lives.
00:32:53
Speaker
and that God often uses to nurture deeper trust and intimacy with Him and with each other. You can find us online at www.nurturecounseling.net.