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265 BK Borison | Indie to Traditional Cosy Romance Author
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Cosy romance author, BK Borison joins us this week to chat about how tropes fold into the creative process of writing romance, making the leap from fan fiction to self-publishing an original romance novel, finding a literary agent and lots more.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Speaker
Oh, a spicy question. I love it. Because the writing sort of everything, right? Like you can fix plot holes, but if the writer... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of, it's kind of a gamble.
BK Barson's Latest Book and Meteorology Research
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast. On today's episode, I am joined by a USA Today and Sunday Times bestselling, cozy contemporary romance author. It's BK Barson. Hello.
00:00:28
Speaker
Hi, thank you for having me today. Thanks so much for coming on. Let's start with your, your latest novel, which is out on the 26th of February in the UK on the 24th, I think in the US. Tell us a little bit about your seventh book and now back to you.
00:00:49
Speaker
Oh gosh, I didn't realize it was the seventh book. I think that's thrown me a little bit. So, and now back to you, apparently is my seventh book, um but it's the second book in the Heartstrings series where each book is sort of um a light twist on a Nora Ephron classic. The first one was a twist on Sleepless in Seattle. This one is a twist on When Harry Met Sally. And now back to you, two competing meteorologists are sort of against their will paired together to cover a historic snowstorm um that's coming to the east coast um and the trials and tribulations of two very opposite people having to work together yeah a classic uh a classic setup for a romance story i love that yes um why meteorologists
00:01:39
Speaker
You know, i i don't know. um
Romance Tropes and Writing Process
00:01:44
Speaker
so I knew I wanted this series to focus on a small local radio station. and when i was When I was writing the first one, i knew it was going to be about a radio personality, someone who hosted a romance hotline. And then as I was writing it, there a character popped up who did the the weather for the radio station. um And I knew that the second book would be about him. Unfortunately, i don't know anything about meteorology. um And so when I was writing this book, it was a lot of research. But then I was so lucky because ah a gal reached out on Instagram who works for the National Weather Service here in the US. And she said, I love your books. If you have any questions about weather for the second book, just let me know. So i picked her brain endlessly meteorology.
00:02:29
Speaker
different weather phenomena, weather predicting models. She was endlessly helpful. um But yeah, i I really love local reporting. um It's something my family always had on growing up on television. um And so I think there's something deeply comforting about, you know, knowing who your weatherman is, knowing who your weatherwoman is. and the news anchors you find comfort with. So yeah, it was fun to sort of explore this different world. And I learned a lot about weather while writing this book. great. Yeah. That's amazing that you you just
Journey from Fan Fiction to Original Stories
00:03:05
Speaker
found someone that you could speak to and just totally get all the information you needed from them.
00:03:09
Speaker
I am so grateful to Meg from the national weather service.
00:03:14
Speaker
Um, and it's, uh, w within the romance setting itself, it's the sort of opposite opposites attract is the kind of main trope, right? Um, what are there any other tropes that that readers can look out for, or be excited about in this book?
00:03:31
Speaker
I think probably sort of fish out of water because, you know, they're going off to the mountains to cover snowstorm. Jackson is very regimented and he likes his order. he likes his his routines. Delilah is very...
00:03:48
Speaker
Chaotic, but in a whimsical way. um And so let's see what else. Force proximity, because there of course, as in every romance novel, they there's only one room at the end, so they have to share a hotel room for the book. um id I'd probably call it more of a slow burn.
00:04:08
Speaker
I would say, i don't know. Tropes are, I don't write with tropes in mind. so okay this is always the difficult part. Part when it comes to I'm like, Oh, what did I write about? Where does that fall? But yeah, i think that probably covers it.
00:04:22
Speaker
Okay. That's interesting because I was, I was going to ask, it was fun to ask, um, romance authors because it's, there's, it's sort of tropes are so baked in into the genre, but, but lots of drunk genres do it as well. But I always ask, like, do you write the story with the tropes in mind?
00:04:38
Speaker
But it sounds like you don't, you, you kind of figure out, you kind of go back retroactively and think, oh, this is, I did this trope, this trope, this trope. Yeah, I think it's it's funny. I feel like I'm almost against writing to certain tropes because I'm like oh like, everyone's going to know that's what's going to happen. like If you send two weather people to the mountains for a snowstorm, everyone assumes there's only going to be one room at the hotel. And I remember when I read this draft, i was I had them in separate rooms and separate beds. Yeah. And my editor was like, you can't do this You can't do it. She's like, you cannot send them off, you know, on this trip and not have it just be one room. So I do cave to pressure to include more tropes in my writing. But no, I tend to write this story. And I think sometimes I'm like, oh, this would fit well here for this story. yeah But um it tends to be story first. And then I'm like, oh, did this one, this one, this one.
00:05:32
Speaker
Because inevitably
Reader Feedback and Emotional Impact
00:05:33
Speaker
you're going to write a couple of tropes just just by writing the story, you know, just because that's how the the all stories will have tropes in them. Yes, exactly. I think, you know, tropes are just a different word for archetypes, I think, and story archetypes have existed for millennia. So I think every writer uses them, whether they want to use them in marketing or not, they're going to appear in whatever piece you write.
00:05:56
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And whilst you don't plan with tropes in mind, do you plan your stories ahead of writing them? Oh gosh, I try to. i really try to. um I'm not a strict outliner.
00:06:11
Speaker
i find that when I have big details, when it's very regimented in terms of this happens this chapter, this happens that chapter, it feels more like I'm writing towards a roadmap instead of letting my creativity go free. it feel I feel almost stifled by it. So I try to have like sweeping ideas on where I'm going, where I'm ending up. you know I write romance, so everybody knows where we're ending up. um But I try to have a broad broads strokes picture of what the story will look like. um This one, i had no idea what it would look like, which was challenging. and This is probably, this book was, I was the least prepared going into it solely because this book, Jackson and Delilah's book was supposed to be the third book in the series. But when my editor read book one, she was like, okay, this one's next. And i was like, actually, no. And she was like, no, actually, you know, I'm gonna, you have to write this book next. And so um i wasn't, I was prepared to write the other story in the series and not this one. So it was a little bit,
00:07:14
Speaker
And I would say a little bit, I think I got 40 new gray hairs when i was writing this book, but a lot of, I call it to make it sound more professional. I call it discovery writing where you're sort of trying to figure out where you're going, but um it was just a lot of. Who are you? What are you doing? here Okay. Yeah.
00:07:36
Speaker
So you would like to plan, but it sounds like you have ideas that that kind of percolate in your head and you you're sort of vaguely bearing them in mind whilst just kind of discovering your way to to the story itself.
00:07:48
Speaker
Yes, unfortunately for me. But like you said, you know, what's nice about romance, I mean, not all romance, you know, most romance does do happily ever after, doesn't all do it. But at least with happily ever after, you know where the destination is, like, you know where you're going to end up.
00:08:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the comfort for both the reader and the writer, right? Is that when you open a romance novel, you know that at the end of it, you will be taken care of. Whether you like how they got there or not, you know, at the end of the book, the two characters will either be happily ever after or happy for now.
00:08:23
Speaker
Yes. Yeah, exactly. Is when when you're outside of writing, when you're reading, is romance the genre that you you spend most of a time with? i yeah I would say so. Yes. Usually when I'm drafting though, I have to read outside of genre. So I go more probably fantasy and sci-fi. um I'm a big weenie when it comes to thrillers and horror. but I tried to, one of my dear friends just wrote ah his horror novel and I read that in support. um And it I literally, I had nightmares for weeks. So oh beautifully written, but I can't read horror. i tense so yeah, I tend to,
00:09:02
Speaker
read outside of genre when I'm drafting, but mostly a romance girl for sure. okay. And then when you're editing, you'll read in genre? Yeah, usually. yeah Cause I find like the, the hardest part, I, you don't want to, like, I kind of call it like osmosis. Like I don't want to accidentally lift anything from anyone else. And so editing, I'm a little bit more separate from the It's more mechanical and less. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:32
Speaker
I don't even know how to describe it. I'm less in the zone with with with composing and it's more just the mechanics of it. Yeah, that makes sense. I think a lot of ah lot of writers ah do it that way as well.
00:09:44
Speaker
But that yeah, they try and read outside of their genre or they or they don't read or they, you know, read nonfiction. I think I've spoken to viewers who that just do nonfiction.
00:09:55
Speaker
But then, yeah, i don't know. Maybe it inspires them to get back into doing the draft that they're supposed to be doing and procrastinating. Maybe I'll try that. Maybe I'll try that next.
Publishing Journey and Evolution as a Writer
00:10:05
Speaker
Um, so when did you first start writing? Were you, were you pretty young when you first started?
00:10:13
Speaker
i Yeah, I've been, you know, I was one of those kids who was very, um day I would get caught in daydreams a lot. i was more interested in reading at the library, I think, than anything else. um Always a very bookish kid, imaginative bookish person. um And so I would write little short stories. And i think like most millennials that have decided to write novels, my I really dipped my toes in writing fiction with fan fiction. Okay.
00:10:45
Speaker
Yeah. like it ah And so that was that was probably most of my adolescence was writing fan fiction. And then writing has always sort of been part of my day job, professional day job. um And then I decided to write my own original story. And gosh, what year was it? Oh, was during COVID. Yeah. So during COVID, when everybody was holed up in their houses, I decided I'd take a shot at writing my first book. um No plan, no expectations, self-published it through Amazon. And now we're here on book seven, apparently. Here we are.
00:11:23
Speaker
I have to ask, because it's always fun to know. And like you're amongst, like you said, it's it's a very millennial thing to to have done. And I've had many authors who have said that they you know their first writing they did was in fan fiction. What was the what was the subject of your fan fiction?
00:11:39
Speaker
I don't say. I don't share. I always say. would say? Okay. I won't say it. i always i always tell people, if you guess it, then I will say yes or no. But I don't. It was funny. that So I went on tour for Good Spirits, which was my book that came out in October. Um, and there were a couple people on tour who had bound copies of my fan fiction and I'm not public about what I wrote or like what name.
00:12:03
Speaker
it was funny that a couple of people have started to figure it out. And it was deeply shocking when the first girl came up and she was, she had, she was holding something under the desk and she was like, I have something to show you. If this is weird, we can, we don't have to talk about it. And she like pulled it like, like contraband, you know? then she, she pulled it out and presented. I was like, Oh my God.
00:12:23
Speaker
Yeah. um But yeah, some people know it's, I think it's probably slowly coming out, but I keep it, I keep it under wraps. But that's, ah that's also like really cool to know that like your, your writing for like such a long time, like did reach an audience and like people were reading it, even though, you know, was. And it's, it's funny to see that people, whatever people saw in my fan fiction, they can connect the dots to what I'm writing now. yeah.
00:12:51
Speaker
I think my voice has changed so much, but apparently not so much where it's not recognizable. So um that that's pretty cool that someone found it and figured it it out um and then took the time to bring it to me. That was it was special for sure. Yeah. To to like bind it and then and then come to an event that you were there. Yeah, that's really nice.
00:13:14
Speaker
And I was like, I kind of I want this. Can I keep this? And she said, no.
00:13:19
Speaker
absolutely not yes no this is mine thank you yeah do you not have them saved somewhere you can't find your own copy uh no that feels very narcissistic if i were to find my own um maybe maybe yeah maybe well i do i don't know if i have I have to look.
00:13:41
Speaker
That could be a fun trip down memory lane. And then go but it would be interesting to read it then. Cause yeah, I do wonder if, if you're the sort of core element of your voice probably hasn't changed that much, but the sort of the, the skill and the way you put it together has obviously evolved and matured as you've become a more accomplished writer.
00:14:00
Speaker
Yeah. And as it's funny, as you step away from books and then return to them stuff you've written, it's almost like, wait, did I write this? like this This sounds pretty nice. I like this. I have that experience sometimes with when I'm doing past pages, which is um the final stage of a book before it goes to publication. And I'll be reading through a book. I'm reading through past pages right now for a book that I finished.
00:14:25
Speaker
Oh, gosh. earth mid last year is when I finished it so I'm reading past pages now and i'm I'm like oh wow this is this is pretty nice you did a good job on this one but you know you you forget sometimes when you step far enough away and return to it yeah it's almost it's nice in a way yeah nice to i think it's uh it might be i think it's zadie smith or is another author who said that like one of the best things you can do for a manuscript is like write it and then put it away and leave it for like as long as you can years if possible and then come back to it and then they're like and then edit it after that
00:15:03
Speaker
I used to be adamantly against that, but yes, I definitely, going from the indie sphere where everything is so rapid release to traditional publishing, which is a lot more drawn out of a timeline. i think that's something I've gotten a deep appreciation for is moving away from something, maybe going to something else and then coming back to be like, oh, okay, I can make this better here. I can strengthen it there. yeah It's definitely been something I have learned to love.
00:15:32
Speaker
Yeah, to have a sort of break from a thing, completely detach from it and then be able to come back fresh and look at it sort of like a stranger in some ways. Mm-hmm.
00:15:43
Speaker
Um, before we head over to the woodland cabin, um, I just have a quick, a quick, um, question for you about, so you were going to get into it, um, in a bit, but you, so you indie published and now you're traditionally published. This is your seventh book coming out. You have an eighth book coming out later this year. um the, your experiences with writing and publishing, if you could go back, would you do anything differently?
00:16:14
Speaker
You know, I get this question a lot and my answer is always the same. I don't think I would do a single thing differently because it's led to exactly right here. And i think that the thing that probably benefit benefited me the most when I started and still benefits me to this day is that i when i wrote my first book, I didn't have any expectation as to what it would do or its performance. I didn't think I would sell it. you know like i i was never going to query it. I was never going to try to shop it to traditional publishers. It was a book that I wrote purely for myself.
00:16:51
Speaker
And i think that mindset of, I'm going to do this book for me and what happens will happen, has served me incredibly well throughout the process. It gives me a healthy detachment from the book.
00:17:06
Speaker
you know I'm not stewing in expectation or I hope it does this, I hope it does that. I just write the book I want to write and then I sort of am able to move forward with it. um I think holding onto that for as long as humanly possible um is a very good thing. And
Balancing Creativity and Reader Feedback
00:17:24
Speaker
so i don't i don't know if there's anything I would say to myself that would change where I am right now.
00:17:32
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. yeah That's, I mean, i think that's great advice coming into this. I've heard similar advice where people were like, um, they're glad that they didn't know how the industry worked or anything like that, because it meant that they could just enjoy writing their first book and just like focusing all their energy onto that. And you coming into this saying like, you basically just wrote that for the joy of writing. And because you wanted to create a story with no expectation, I think that's the healthiest way.
00:17:59
Speaker
with with an industry as that is like unpredictable and competitive as um this and subjective, you know, so much of it is just subjective, um who succeeds in and who doesn't. I think that, yeah, that's such a healthy way of looking at it.
00:18:13
Speaker
Yeah. and it's really difficult to hold onto that. I think everybody naturally has a sort of ah hopes and dreams. And then, you know, you start working with publishers and they're like, okay, well, our expectations are this. we're like, oh, great. Well, there goes that.
00:18:27
Speaker
and When you get into the more businessy aspect of it, because it at its core, you know, it's it's strange that something that take so much heart, you put so much of your heart in a book and then it can be so cut and dry and cold with the industry side of it. So, yeah um, trying to hold onto the things that make it meaningful for you as an author.
00:18:49
Speaker
um yeah I think it's important exactly even if not incredibly difficult to do so. Yeah. Well, at least, at least with to some degree, when it comes to traditional publishing, at least there's an element of you can stay, you know, 90% just on the creative stuff. And then you now have the publisher to do all the business side of things for you. You don't have to think too much about it. yeah Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:11
Speaker
Yes, it is nice. I think probably the thing that threatens kicking me off that path the most is, and probably something that's more prevalent in the last couple of years is just how loud, reader voices can be existing in social spaces, on social media, and just like the internet in general. I think it's inevitable that you will see feedback on what you're writing and and not hearing those, those very what can be very loud voices when you're drafting can be difficult. I think that's probably been the most challenging part is not letting reader voices be too loud and just relying on my gut, which has you know written all these stories. and But sometimes reader voices can be can be strong, which is a good thing, a passionate, wonderful thing, but can also be like, eek.
00:20:02
Speaker
Yes, yes. The internet in many ways, a double edged sword. Yeah. yes All my friends who are authors like mostly try to avoid Goodreads every now and again, someone, one of them will text me and be like, well, I went on Goodreads and now I'm depressed. Yeah, it's it is the worst. um Not the worst. It's just like it can it's so tempting, right? Because i don't think I don't think there's any other job in the world where you can log on to a web website and see every single person who has consumed your product, what they honestly think about it. um
00:20:37
Speaker
So it's it's real-time marketing research, right? Which can be really helpful as an author and it can be also like very demoralizing. Yeah.
00:20:49
Speaker
The worst thing as well is because like, because like you said, writing a book, it there's so much heart. It's there's so much of you in it. such a very personal endeavor. It's like you can read 20 reviews and 19 of them could be great.
00:21:03
Speaker
And there's just one review that really, where the person really didn't like it. And they're just telling you exactly why they didn't like it. And that one review can just ruin your, your whole day. It really can. i think I think that's been the hardest part as adjusting to this as a career is that you write a book, you put all of your emotions and intentions into it. But when the book is out with other people, it doesn't matter the intentions with which you wrote it, people are going to consume that book. with their own perspectives, their own life experiences, and it's going to shape how they interpret it. um And you can't be, you cannot control what somebody else thinks and feels about a book you've written. and You can't be like, well, no, I didn't mean that. I meant this. um That's just not how it
Discovery Writing Preference
00:21:48
Speaker
works. And I think that's probably been, that's the hardest part for me, I think, about putting a book in the world. The scariest part is that when it's out there, it's not yours anymore. It's everyone else's.
00:21:58
Speaker
Yes. Cause I, yeah. Cause also as a reader, in some ways you're like an active participant, the sort of the author has put out a structure, but it's your imagination. That's kind of, you're kind of working together. sort of oddly collaborative in a way.
00:22:13
Speaker
Yeah. um And I don't think it gets easier to be honest. Oh, good. Great.
00:22:19
Speaker
Great. That's what I've heard. But that's good because it means that you, you know, if you're, so you don't want to be, you know, unaffected once you've written 20 books for you to be like, Oh, I've done 20 books now. I don't care. You know what the reviews and stuff say. It's like, well, I think you should care. You know, it'd be nice. yeah You want to know how people feel that you're, that you're resonating with people and your readers are enjoying what you're writing.
00:22:42
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, I do. I do reach a certain threshold though. Like I'm very antsy about feedback and in the like three months before a book comes out. Cause I feel like that determines so much for how a book performs, right? Early feedback can inform so much of the business side of it. And so I get very um skittish, I would say with how people think and feel about it. But then once it's in the world, i'm like, okay, it's, it's no longer mine. It's gone. It's out of my hands. There's nothing I can do. okay That's good.
00:23:14
Speaker
Yeah. let go of it at a certain point. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Um, and it's not in a, I mean, it sounds like part of that is cause you started in the sort of independent publishing arena, which we're going to
Book Recommendation and Conclusion
00:23:26
Speaker
get onto a bit later, but right now, um, I have to ask you Bex, if you were snowed in at a cozy woodland cabin in the middle of nowhere, which book would you hope to have with you?
00:23:38
Speaker
i would bring I would hope to find anything by Kat Sebastian, okay but very specifically, her favorite book of mine is it's actually not even out yet.
00:23:51
Speaker
Can I say that? It's called Starship. It's called Starship, and it comes out in March. It's by Kat Sebastian. It's her first. She typically writes... historicals This is her first contemporary. um And it's about to co-stars on a cult TV show um who hate each other, who of course, in romance fashion, are forced to take a road trip together across the country um and realize they have a lot more in common than they thought. And it's just the way Kat writes love stories um is very tender. It's very gentle. um And something about her writing just scratches my brain so deliciously. How she, how she her, I'm trying to think of her prose, her flow, the way she composes a story is just really beautifully done. um
00:24:46
Speaker
And I love her and I will read anything she ever writes forever. and Okay, amazing. An incredible endorsement from a fellow romance writer. So that's definitely one fairup for all the romance fans out there to add to their list.
00:24:59
Speaker
um Next up, we are going to get, like i said, we're going to pick up a bit on the sort of indie publishing stuff. We're going to talk about Bex's publishing journey, how she started out in self-publishing, moved into traditional publishing. That will all be available in the extended episode at patreon.com forward slash rightandwrong.com.
00:25:18
Speaker
ramble about story ideas and you know so I think it's never no author writes a book on their own as much as they ego likes to say we do but it's not it's not an independent process yeah it takes it takes a village yes um and that brings us to the end of the episode thank you so much Bex for coming on and chatting with me and telling me all about um your your kind of writing and publishing journey it's a really really fascinating um talking with you Thank you so much for having me. This has been great.
00:25:48
Speaker
And ah Bex's new book, And Now Back to You, is out, as I said, end of February in the UK and the US. She also has Grim Tidings coming out later on at the end of the year. If you want to keep up with what Bex is doing, you can find her on Instagram, Facebook, and threads at author BKBorrison or on her website, bkborrison.com. To support this podcast, like, follow, and subscribe, join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes. Thanks again, Bex, and thanks to everyone listening. We will catch you
00:26:19
Speaker
on the episode.