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264 Ellie K. Wilde | Hybrid Romance Author
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Hybrid romance author, Ellie K. Wilde is here to chat about her journey from self-published to traditionally published, BookTok marketing, romance tropes and more publishing tips.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Right and Wrong Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Oh, a spicy question. love Because the writing is sort of everything, right? Like you can fix plot holes, but if the writer... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of, it's kind of a gamble.
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast.
Ellie K. Wilde's Latest Publication
00:00:17
Speaker
On today's episode, I am with a romance author who writes both contemporary and romantic comedies. It's Ellie K. Wilde. Hello.
00:00:27
Speaker
Good morning and hello to everyone listening. ah Yes, morning for you in Canada. Afternoon here in the in the UK. um Thanks so much for coming on.
00:00:37
Speaker
Let's jump right in with your your latest publication. ah Coming out on February 17th, the third book in the Oakwood Bay series. Tell us a little bit about If Only You Knew and a bit about the the series as well.
Overview of the Oakwood Bay Series
00:00:55
Speaker
Yeah, so it's, as you said, the third book in the Oakwood Bay series. um And what I love about the series this series and a lot of um other romance ah series is that it's an interconnected standalone, meaning that you can pick it up and feel like you haven't missed a thing, even if you haven't read the first two books.
00:01:14
Speaker
Um, however, the the two characters in this book, Summer and Parker are part of the friend group that's appeared throughout the entire series. Um, this is a childhood best friends to lovers, ah romance, uh, between two characters who've known each other since they were three, um, have sort of navigated life together, ah the ups and downs and, uh, arrive at a point in their lives where they're not quite sure, um you know, whether they're excelling, you know, at their full potential within adulthood.
00:01:49
Speaker
And part of that is is in their relationships. And, um, so they sort of task each other with, um acting as each other's matchmaker, ah seeing as they know each other the best and um it destroys their friendship.
From Friendship to Romance
00:02:05
Speaker
And the book sort of follows them as they try to rebuild that relationship. And and we get to watch as it turns into something much, much better than friendship.
00:02:15
Speaker
Okay. Okay, great. So it's not fake dating because they're sort of helping each other matchmake, but is is this this is like friends to lovers, would it be? Friends to lovers. Yeah, definitely not fake dating. I've written the last book of the series was de was was a fake dating, but ah yes, there's a lot of push and pull on this one where you know it's answering that question. like You've known this person since you were a child. At what point does that love, that familial love, or i i mean, I wouldn't call it that because... They turn to lovers, but at what point does that love transform into, into romantic love? And, uh, it's a really fun thing to explore.
00:02:57
Speaker
yeah And I guess the catalyst that causes that love or like that appreciation to change, or at least their view of it to change. Exactly. Yeah.
Standalone Stories in the Series
00:03:06
Speaker
So you mentioned that these stories can be read in in any order, so people can jump in at the third one and then go back and read the first or second one.
00:03:13
Speaker
Would it be like, do do you get more if you've read the first two or are they fully sort of like autonomous? they' They're rather autonomous. I would say that, of course, you get a little um you get a sprinkling of them throughout. You get to see their dynamic um as part of that friendship.
00:03:33
Speaker
um So definitely worth picking up if you just love to to see sort of that progression over the years. But um it's a fully contained story.
00:03:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm the same. I absolutely love it when there are sort of multiple narratives weaving around the same setting when it, when it comes to like choosing how you kind of pull stories out after you've written one book, do you plan it ahead or is it like you're writing the first novel in the series and then there's just like a couple of secondary characters that are just like calling for you to write their own story?
Crafting Compelling Characters
00:04:10
Speaker
So I really wish I could say I was organized enough to plan things. And I'm really trying to be with, with future projects. um But no, this one was very much a, I was writing the first in the series, only in your dreams.
00:04:24
Speaker
um there There was this, you know, such a magnetic friend group that I just, you just get so caught up in their own backstories and, ah it just, it it begged to be explored. So, it would just kind of turn into a a series unexpectedly.
Ellie's Journey as an Independent Author
00:04:43
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. And is this, am I right in thinking this is the fifth book you've published? This, yes, this is the fifth book I've published and I started out as an independent author. uh, it's been quite the adventure.
00:04:55
Speaker
Did you, is writing something that you just always knew that you wanted to do from a young age? It was kind of my only thing. Like I'm not the most well-rounded person. Like writing is my thing. And it's always been my thing um since I was, you know, in school. It's a thing that I excelled in. I never thought that I could really plausibly turn it into a viable career. I think it's something that always hear, oh, it's too hard or it's like a one in a million chance kind of thing. um And even when I published my first book independently,
00:05:29
Speaker
I hadn't gone through the whole process of, you know, querying and trying to dip into traditional publishing because again, i thought, well, i'm I'm not that one in a million. um So it was just really for fun and something that i was doing for myself. um But the result, I guess, was quite unexpected.
00:05:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And has, I mean, sounds that you like you said, you've been writing always pretty much has your approach to writing and your story process changed, um, you know, over the course of these five books that you've published since the first novel, or even since before then?
Writing Process: Pantser to Plotter
00:06:11
Speaker
I mean, definitely. I think, as I said, i am trying to become more of a planner. The first few books, because I was writing for myself and because I was writing for fun, um i just, you know, let the story unfold as I was writing it without, i mean, i i I guess I would have a sense of where it would end, but the road to get there, I think was still unknown to me as I was writing. Cool.
00:06:38
Speaker
Now I do try to to plan things out. I'm trying to become a plotter, less of a pantser. um I'm not saying that I'm like the best at following my own plans, but but I do try my best.
00:06:53
Speaker
Yeah. The authors that I've spoken to who are sort of pantsers and I think will probably stay as pantsers, they often say the problem is like they've tried planning and the problem is that they lose the sort of energy when they're writing it. they They're not as excited if they know what's going to happen. Is that something that you find?
00:07:13
Speaker
hey yes and no i think I always make sure that I'm invested in points in the plot. Like at a certain point they do act like beacons in the future. Like, let me get through this um foundational chapter because i know that the next chapter is something exciting that I get to write. So I do love having those markers down the road to get me through the parts that are a little um less exciting to write. Yeah.
00:07:45
Speaker
But I definitely do take detours along the road. Like if I think of something way more exciting than what I, what I'd already planned out, I do, I do change the plan. Okay. So it sounds like you're, you're sort of, you'll, you'll, you'll have a plan, but you're happy to change it if something better comes along.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. And I think the beauty of contemporary romance is that I think it maybe ah allows for a little bit of flexibility there. Like if I was writing you know, a fantasy, which is much more structured and and much more complex, maybe plot wise and layered, um then maybe i'd I'd hesitate a little bit more. But i think contemporary romance and romantic comedies in general, you get to have a little fun with it.
00:08:28
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, maybe there may be more flexibility. That being said, I'm always surprised when I've had a number of psychological thriller writers on. And like, those are quite, there's definitely a structure to that genre. And there's ah often like a big twist. And the amount of times that I'll ask them, are they a planner or a panzer? And they'll just say, oh, panzer, I don't know what's going happen at the end. And I'm just...
00:08:48
Speaker
my How? without you acting and me children Okay. So there's hope for me yet. Like I could exactly right what I guess it depends how much you're willing to edit, after your first few drafts. Fair
The Role of Tropes in Storytelling
00:09:03
Speaker
enough. Yeah. for sure Um, so when it comes to like the inception of a story for you, do you start with the characters or is it more of a setting or a situation?
00:09:14
Speaker
ah characters, I would say. um and then it just sort of builds from there. um And of course, I know that there's this sort of...
00:09:27
Speaker
um Turning up of the nose when it comes to writing tropes, but tropes are just part of storytelling in general, whether it be books and non-romance books and movies and all that. And so I do think that characters first, then what are like the major anchoring tropes?
00:09:48
Speaker
Okay. Okay. you know, because you've got know the relationship to each other and automatically that's a trope right there. So, um, so I think I go from that to there and then, um, I think the setting just probably the setting next. Yeah.
00:10:06
Speaker
Okay. That's interesting. So you, you've sort of, you are sort of planning the main tropes, um, quite early on in, in the process. Yeah, I mean, they're the basis of the book, right? If I'm writing um this book, if only you knew, mean, the major trope is is friends to lovers and you can't get around that. So, of course, I have to plan around that specific trope and the matchmaking trope is a trope in itself. And um so I know we like to think of tropes as something that you shove into a book or something that maybe –
00:10:40
Speaker
um Does it make a book as prestigious perhaps, but, um, I mean, it's the foundation of storytelling, so you can't really get around that. Yeah.
00:10:52
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's, you can't, you can't really write a romance novel without, ah without tropes because I mean, just as, as a simple look at it, it's like, you know, romance, if you, if you're going to do a happily ever after, it's always going to be like friends, lovers, enemies to lovers, rivals to lovers. It's going to be something to lovers, you know, and those are all in quotes tropes.
00:11:14
Speaker
So exactly just part of the storytelling, isn't it? Exactly. And I, you know, I've talked about this on a different podcast at length about how we all sort of, we should try and celebrate, celebrate tropes. And like, it's fun. And like, there is a part of me that does worry about sometimes the way that tropes are used in advertising, where it's like, instead of getting a blurb now, a lot of the time you'll just get a list of the tropes that are within the book. What do you think about that?
00:11:42
Speaker
I think it all comes down to the change in ah landscape when it comes to audiences. I think that ah there's a shorter attention span when it comes to marketing. um And you see that with the rise of you know TikToks, short-form videos. um And this is just another part of it. It's just a quick way to get your book across without the um reader having to invest more too much time in getting to understand it. um So, you know, I think it's just it's just it's just another way to market.
00:12:15
Speaker
yeah and i guess it's some people are like really against certain tropes not as a concept tropes but like a specific trope like some people really don't like like miscommunication or like uh uh a surprise pregnancy or something like that so if if you list it as like not having that then people feel if i guess you feel safer going into it being like i'm not going to have a rude surprise where the thing i really don't like in stories is going to come off at the end Yeah. Or the the very opposite. I mean, surprise pregnancy is ah has is a huge, huge market. um And it helps those people who love that that type of story, you know, quickly and easily find find those books. And um yeah, I think, I mean, it just like everything else, it's it's the short attention span in terms of marketing and those quick hits. Yeah.
00:13:03
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Getting back onto you, i had a quick look over your website and um on your bio, it says that you enjoy writing dirty mouth cinnamon roll heroes, which is a fantastic description, but I'm not entirely sure what it means.
00:13:24
Speaker
The cinnamon roll. Yeah. So it is, um it is very much romance lingo. it is that character who is um maybe a little serious, maybe little stiffer on the outside, but as he starts to open up, you unravel that cinnamon, that cinnamon roll. The inside you find is very warm and gooey and, and very pleasant.
00:13:50
Speaker
Oh, okay. Okay. So like a Mr. Darcy kind of character. Yes. Yes. It was the exact cinnamon roll. Okay. The original cinnamon roll. The original.
00:14:03
Speaker
You mentioned that, and I was going to get onto this later as well. You started out self-publishing. Yes. How much had you written before you ah sort of found the confidence to, to just go out there and self-publish?
00:14:22
Speaker
I had written the book and that's basically it. um Okay. This really only came up. So it was here in Canada, COVID lockdowns, um rather strict. We were indoors for half a year.
00:14:37
Speaker
um And i mean, I just thought, well, what else am I going to do with my time? Let me try. Let me try to write a story. um Somehow wrote one from start to finish and,
00:14:49
Speaker
um I will say it took a couple of years um beyond 2020 to hit that publish button. But um yeah, I wasn't writing a ton. I didn't have a ton of time until COVID.
00:15:05
Speaker
Yeah, that was the same for a lot of people. It's amazing how many peoples how many people have found a career in publishing post the time that they were ah suddenly found available to themselves during like the COVID lockdowns.
00:15:17
Speaker
Yeah. You know, I don't want to give any credit to that time. It was a horrible, horrible time. um this is the one thing that the one positive thing that came out of it for me, at least.
00:15:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, that's a good way to think about it. Uh, silver linings and all that. Um, was that the 60, 40 Yes, it
From Self-Publishing to Traditional Publishing
00:15:39
Speaker
was. that was your That was the first one that you published.
00:15:41
Speaker
Okay. That's really, it's so interesting because because um I want to get onto it a bit later on. Yeah. I want to talk about how you've, you've kind of moved from self-publishing and how you learned all of that stuff. And then when it's trad publishing, but we are at the point in the episode where I ask you, Ellie, if you were snowed in at a cozy woodland cabin in the middle of nowhere, which book would you hope to have with you?
00:16:04
Speaker
This is such a timing question because we had an insane snowstorm here in Toronto um recently. There's snow piles taller than I am at five foot six right now. Yes, it's ah snowing as I look out the window. um I think I would, that said probably want to...
00:16:26
Speaker
maybe counter it with something really beachy and summery to get me to get me out of here at least mentally um so maybe something like uh not safe for work uh by nisha jay tooley she's another great canadian romance author um just it's very beachy very fun ah just so i can pretend there aren't mountains of snow outside my window Just escape. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. A famously quite cold country as well, but in the middle of a snowstorm as well. I imagine being snowed in isn't the coziest thing you can imagine right now.
00:17:04
Speaker
Okay. Great choice. Yeah. I love a escape from give give me the opposite of what I'm currently experiencing. Always, always a fun thing to do. needed Um, amazing. Next up, uh, we're going to pick up on that self-publishing stuff that I was just talking about, then get into a bit more publishing things like moving into moving from indie to trad, finding an agent that will all be available on the extended episode available at patreon.com forward slash right and wrong.
00:17:31
Speaker
<unk> like Yeah, the opacity of it is definitely a hurdle. And i think there would be benefit on both sides if it was approached as more of a business partnership than it currently is.
00:17:44
Speaker
Yes. Whereas you're more of a client as an author, I think, for a publisher. hmm. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting. Maybe one day, or maybe there'll be one publisher that does suddenly work with their authors in terms of giving them all that data and then they'll do really well. And then it'll get picked up across the industry, but fingers crossed.
00:18:05
Speaker
We'll see. Fingers crossed. Indeed. Yes.
Conclusion and New Book Release
00:18:08
Speaker
And that brings us to the end of the episode. Thank you so much, Ellie, for coming on and telling us all about your your your new book, If Only You Knew, as well as the series and kind of everything you've been up to in terms of your writing and publishing journey. It's been really, really cool chatting with you.
00:18:23
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me. Really, really great and fun discussion this morning. Or I keep saying morning, but today. Today, yes. Across the world. And for anyone listening, if you want to keep up with what Ellie is doing, you can find her on Instagram at Ellie K. Wild author or on her website, Ellie K. Wild dot com. The latest novel, if only you knew, is out February 17th in all the usual places. And to support this podcast, like, follow and subscribe. Join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
00:18:55
Speaker
Thanks again to Ellie and thanks to everyone listening. We will catch you on the next episode.