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259 Stephanie Burgis | Hybrid Middle Grade and Romantasy Author
72 Plays1 hour ago
Hybrid middle grade and romantasy author, Stephanie Burgis joins us this week to chat about how she became a hybrid author and why she continues to publish both independently and traditionally.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
Oh, a spicy question. love Because the writing is sort of everything, right? Like you can fix plot holes, but if the writer... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of, it's kind of a gamble.
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast. On today's episode, I am joined by a hybrid author who writes fun fantasy adventure novels for middle grade and frothy witty romanticies for adults. It's Stephanie Burgess. Hello.
00:00:29
Speaker
Hello, thank you so much for having me here. Thanks so much for coming on. Let's jump right in kicking things off with your latest publication. um Coming out on January 29th in the UK, 27th
Book Introduction: 'Enchanting the Fae Queen'
00:00:42
Speaker
the US. s Tell us a little bit about Enchanting the Fae Queen.
00:00:48
Speaker
Enchanting the Fae Queen is the second in my Queen's Villainy trilogy. um But I should say immediately that although it is a trilogy and there is an overarching storyline, I also worked very hard to make each book work as a standalone fantasy rom-com. So you can pick this one up without having read the first one, although I think you would be missing out slightly in terms of it's fun to see. I think as a reader, it's always fun to see side characters before they become the main characters in the next book.
00:01:18
Speaker
And in this yeah in this particular case, ah the end of the ah last book led sort of a directly, without too many spoilers, into the fae queen, Lorelai of Balravia, thinking that by far the best way to deal with all of her political problems is just to probably kidnap the High General of the opposing empire. And she hasn't thought it through too much. But it is a lot it was a lot of fun to write all their adventures from there, especially because Lorelai and the High General are absolute polar opposites, She's very scandalous. She's a well-known rake with all these discarded lovers. He is very chaste. He's and very virtuous and stoic. And they are so much fun to write together. They've been sort of circling around each other for years. And after she kidnaps him, that's when, you know, it all gets fun. And they end up enjoying the paint tournament and working together and falling in love. So I just had ah an enormous amount of fun writing this book. And I hope readers will enjoy it
00:02:17
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. and And you described it as a rom-com. Is it is very much comedy is like at the front of this? Yes, I would say absolutely. There are serious elements, but it's, I wouldn't say they're any more intense than you would get in say a Julia Quinn novel.
00:02:34
Speaker
Okay. Okay, great.
Stephanie's Writing Journey
00:02:36
Speaker
Are all of your kind of romantic fantasies, are they all kind of rom-com or is is this an outlier? They generally are. i have written a couple in the past that weren't. My first two published adult novels, which weren't actually published in the UK, only in the US, ah they're called Masks and Shadows and Congress of Secrets. They were sort of darker historical romances set in real world history, and but with some really, um I think those were as dark as I'm ever likely to go. And ah that I wrote those at a different point in my life. And basically,
00:03:12
Speaker
At this point in my life, I just want to write books that are really fun and provide a sort of frothy, empowering escape that people can read and feel better and more prepared to come back and face their own battles in the real world. world Okay. All right. and And when you say frothy, is ah is that what I would also read as spicy?
00:03:30
Speaker
Is that the spicy scenes? and Some of them are. Some of them are. so These ones are. ah The Queens of Villainy series is my spiciest series. It's the first time I have written, you know, sex scenes on the page as opposed to just heavily implied that it's happening off page. But not all of them. Mostly I just think of frothy as meaning lots and lots of witty banter and longing looks and, you know, that sort of thing.
00:03:58
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. Will they, won't they kind of thing. Exactly. You know, it's all going to okay in the end. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so I guess what's, obviously, romanticism is such a big um force in publishing at the moment. But I guess most of them are not leaning into a sort of rom-com element. Most of them are quite serious, is my understanding.
00:04:17
Speaker
That's definitely the predominant mode right now. And it's not for all of them. ah i Right now, I am reading Julie Long's The Keeper of Magical Things. And that's just wonderful. It's a really gentle, cozy romanticism. And I don't know that I describe it as rom-com exactly. it doesn't quite go that far, but it but it's definitely not the high angst version. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And Sangha Mandana, again, especially with her very secret society of irregular witches, but again with her Witch's Guide to Magical Innkeeping, which just came out. Those are really lovely, cozy, fun romanticies that include a lot of humor along with the other elements.
00:05:00
Speaker
Okay. And you mentioned that this is a sequel, but you' you've you've worked hard to write them all as standalone. So they are accessible to read and in any order, yes I guess. Yes.
00:05:13
Speaker
That kind of... adjacent storytelling, which has its become very popular, especially within um not just romanticity, but like romance um as a genre generally.
00:05:25
Speaker
Is that something that you've just always loved doing or is that something that you've seen is like works for a lot of other authors and you thought you'd give it a try? It's something I've loved as a reader for as long as it's been going on really. um Because I mean, I'm 48 now. I have been reading. ah i was reading Georgia Higher novels when I was 12. I've been reading in the romance genre for a really long time. And i remember being just delighted when we got to the stage where you know you were seeing lots of series with the continuing characters. Because I love that kind of storytelling where you've got a whole community you can attach to for more than one book at a time. But at the same time, you get a separate
00:06:11
Speaker
happy ending in every novel. So yeah I am not a fan, as a reader, I'm not a fan of cliffhangers. um I don't love getting to the end of a novel and the story's not done.
00:06:25
Speaker
I mean, I don't mind having an overarching story, of course, you know and I do that as a writer. ah But I want to feel that yeah know all my tension over the book of will they, won't they, I want to know at the end of book one, honestly, will they or not? So yeah it's a good way for me of mingling um all the joys of a long series with the satisfaction of standalone novels, getting you know the separate couples in each book. And actually, even in my middle grade novels, I have written some of them that way. my I had a trilogy that was published by Bloomsbury that started with The Dragon with a Chocolate Heart. And again, there was no romance, obviously, because this is a children's book, but each book in the trilogy was told from a different point of view. And it was a different character from the sort of group of people who meet in book one.
00:07:15
Speaker
Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, i'm I'm a big fan of it too. When you when it feels that you're reading the main character of like the whole series is more like the world and you're reading yeah the individual stories and the world progresses still.
00:07:28
Speaker
The other thing I guess with romance is that, like you said, you like to have the couple come together at the end and you see this so much in television shows that are based around romance. It means that in the next one, when the next book starts or the next series starts, they have to break them up again. Yes, I hate that. So this is so annoying. It's so annoying. And I think there's a lot of, I don't know who to blame it on. If I should be blaming television sort of network executives or producers or the actual writers, but I wish they had more faith that you can write interesting stories about couples once they're together. Also, if they, you know, I, I've been married for 20 some years and I don't believe the relationship became boring once we actually tied the knot and decided we were not going to break up.
00:08:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that they just, it doesn't have the same established tropes and things. There's kind of like a formula to doing ah some of those kind of will they, won't they things. Whereas it's, it's more, you have to work a bit harder, I think if you're absolutely doing the next part.
00:08:32
Speaker
um Absolutely. Getting back onto, onto you, I want to hear about your kind of journey into
Early Writing and First Novel
00:08:38
Speaker
writing. So you mentioned that you you were reading at a very young age, but when, when did you first start writing?
00:08:45
Speaker
Oh, gosh. I was very young because think – so i did I did start reading um fairly early, at least. This is a generational difference. yeah Back in you know the early 80s, it was exciting that I started reading when I was four, and now four year a lot of four-year-olds are, in fact, taught to do that in the reception. you know So I still think of it but that way. But, yeah, so I so i was – an obsessive reader from a very, very young age, but it took me until I was seven to figure out that there were actual people who wrote the books and it was an actual job that adults could aspire to. And, you know, mind completely blown. So this, you know, family story, I was sitting next to my mom in the car and I said, I found something that I love even more than reading, writing, I'm going to be a writer. And she said, Oh God, she was horrified because, you know, my mom is a practical person who wanted her daughter to have a steady income.
00:09:36
Speaker
So, yeah um So I've known i wanted to be a writer since I was seven years old. And I've been trying, you know, I was trying for it to one level or another from the time I was seven. i But I, let's see, I sold a short story to a, what would you call it? It's a magazine in America that is, it's on the bookshelves, but the only people who can submit are students who are under 18. So I sold a short story to them when I was 15. And I thought, Oh, I'm almost there. ha
00:10:08
Speaker
You know, I didn't end up actually selling my first, you know, short stories to pro magazines until I think I was 27 the first time. And then I sold my first novel when I was 31. So, you know, it's been a long haul, but I'm really happy to be making a living from my writing at this point.
00:10:30
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. With your first novel, your debut, was that a Most Improper Magic? Yes, it was. Okay. AKA Kate Incorrigible.
00:10:42
Speaker
Cat Incorrigible, yeah. Cat Incorrigible, yes. And that was published US and UK. Did you him was have an agent when you signed that deal? Yes, I did. um i had and American agent as well as a British co-agent and they signed the deals fairly close together. um But because they sold to different companies, they ended up with different titles in the US s and the UK. So in the US, it was Cat Incorrigible. And in the UK, it was Most Improper Magic. And that was I'd actually had an agent before, back in 2005, I believe. ah I signed with an agent for my first adult book, which didn't end up getting published until 10 years later with a different agent. um So that didn't work out at the time. it was the wrong moment sort of for that sort of thing to be commercial. i ended up with my second agent was the one who sold my first trilogy.
00:11:44
Speaker
And okay so I was with him for seven years. And he also so sold, eventually, my first adult novel that I'd you know gotten an agent with all those years ago, which ended up being published in 2016. along with the second one.
00:12:02
Speaker
And by then I was with my third agent, who is still my agent, and I hope to work with her forever, Molly Ker-Hahn. And she's amazing. And um with her, I've sold five children five more children's books, the Dragon with the Chocolate Heart trilogy and the Raven Crown duology, and also this trilogy of adult romanticies to Tor Bramble.
00:12:28
Speaker
Okay. Changing agents. There's lots of different
Agent Changes and Career Fit
00:12:32
Speaker
reasons why people change agents. with Oh, yes. The kind of change to to Molly, i know that you're based in the UK now and she's also based in London. Was it mainly a geographical thing, just having a local agent?
00:12:44
Speaker
It was partly geographical because when I was trying to decide between agents, i one of one of the main decision factors was i could actually you know take the train up and meet Molly in person and we can hang out and we can have sort of a more... a lot at it It makes the whole thing easier if you're on this in the same time zone. I've been working with an American agent for yeah many years before that.
00:13:10
Speaker
um ah Also, sometimes an agent who's the right person for you at one stage of your career just isn't later. And I would say that...
00:13:21
Speaker
that was the case with my second agent, because sometimes you'll sign on with an agent because they really click with one book or series that you've written, but they're not actually, they don't actually share a larger reading taste with you.
00:13:36
Speaker
And I sort of tangled myself up for a few years because of that, because the books I wrote after my, my trilogy, the soul, the cat books, they were a bit different And they were different in a way that wasn't the right way for my agent's taste, which isn't his fault. you know um It's just that it turned out that the sort of things I was interested in writing next weren't necessarily the things he was interested in reading.
00:14:04
Speaker
And so it took me a while to get the confidence to then leave. But I was so glad I did because it turned out that you know it it wasn't that these books weren't marketable. It was...
00:14:19
Speaker
that these books weren't to one person's taste. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And and it's like it's a mutually beneficial thing, right? Absolutely. It's not helping either of you if you're staying in ah where you want to go different directions. It makes sense. Absolutely. And I would absolutely say too that, you know, he was as supportive as he could have been. And it was a part of not wanting to leave. I was thinking, oh but, yeah you know...
00:14:46
Speaker
But it wasn't, it's just like any other relationship. yeah you Sometimes it's just time to leave and it doesn't mean anything bad about either person. yeah Yeah. And you've been with Molly coming up on 10 years Over 10 years, 10 and a half years. yeah okay So that that's all seems to be going well. Does Molly rep your children's stuff and your adult stuff? Yes, she does. Yes. When we first signed on, She was officially only representing children's work. So I thought I would have to look for a second agent for the adult work. But at the time, she offered to also represent my adult work. And she was so lovely and generous about it. She said that because she hadn't done it before, she was willing she asked if I'd be willing to give it a try. And then she would refer me to a different agent for the adult work if I didn't feel it was working.
00:15:34
Speaker
But obviously, that never ended up happening because she's brilliant. So you know I would never want to be referred elsewhere. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Am I right in thinking that your earlier adult novels, you self-published some? i not my very first two, those were traditionally published by um Pyre Books, which at the time was part of Penguin Random House in the US, although it's now been sold off to a different entity.
00:16:03
Speaker
After that, I did, i had been self-publishing a couple of short stories on the side. As I was writing the cat books, I wanted to make sure i gave readers things to read in between my once a year books. So I would self-publish a cat tie-in story every year and just sort of put it out there for my readers. And then when I was going through a few years afterwards of really struggling, honestly, to sell anything, um my then agent had gotten me a deal to do some work for hire books, but those were under a series pen name. They weren't
00:16:36
Speaker
They're not written officially by me. So, you know, there was nothing to give my readers and I didn't want them to go away and forget about me. So I did self-publish. I self-published ah a novella, Courting Magic, which is sort of a follow-up to the cat books about cat all grown up. And I self-published um a couple of other novelettes.
00:16:55
Speaker
But it wasn't until 2017 that I got serious about the self-publishing side. And the reason why in 2016, I'd had first two adult novels.
00:17:04
Speaker
books be published traditionally. And so I had this foothold, I felt like, on the adult audience that I'd always wanted to write for also. But I didn't have enough time and energy to write another full-length adult novel at that point.
00:17:22
Speaker
So what I did was I decided that during that point in my life, when i you know I had two young children and I could only trust myself to write one full novel a year, I would write one novella a year for adults and just sort of keep my foothold in that way.
00:17:38
Speaker
And so that was, I started with my novella Snow Spelled. And actually, i have to say, you know, it was it was the first time I'd gotten really serious about self-publishing as in not just sort of tossing it up online and telling people about it in my newsletter.
00:17:54
Speaker
but actually approaching reviewers and getting blurbs and you know all those sort of things you have to do to promote if you're self-publishing. And it worked out so beautifully. i ended up earning more from that single novella than I had from my first two traditionally published novels.
00:18:12
Speaker
Wow. So I got quite serious very quickly about the self-publishing side. And I self-published one novella on the side every year for a while until – I think it it was 2020 2021 when I did my first full length adult self-published novel, because I'd finally gotten to the point when I could actually you know do that while still hitting my other deadlines.
00:18:37
Speaker
Okay. Wow. Okay. Amazing. So yeah you kind of built up to it and then and then it just it just really worked out. So then you doubled down. That's great. yeah Yeah. And it was, i honestly wasn't sure that I was going to go back to trad publishing ah as an adult author for the children's novel, trad publishing is the only thing that really makes a lot of sense because it's so hard to get books to kid readers if they aren't in bookstores and libraries.
Hybrid Publishing Strategy
00:19:04
Speaker
But as an adult writer, you know, you can do very, very well with self publishing and there are real advantages to it also. um So it wasn't until I think it was 2023, maybe when my agent told me that I'm,
00:19:22
Speaker
She'd been to Bologna and everyone wanted romance. I was writing romance scene. and Please give her something you know that she could actually sell. so At that point, I sort of did this wishy-washy, well, I don't know, maybe maybe none. and i i so I sent her the first few chapters in a proposal for Wooing the Witch Queen, which is the first book in my Queens of Villainy trilogy. and I did an outline of where I saw the other books going.
00:19:45
Speaker
and Even when she sent it out, I was still thinking, well, if the offer isn't good enough, I'll just say no and I'll self-publish. But, you know, luckily it went to auction and the offer was great. So I'm very happy to try publishing again, but I'm still self-publishing novellas on the side.
00:20:00
Speaker
Okay, cool. So you are, yeah, truly a hybrid author. Yes. Which is great. um We're going to get a bit, we're going to go back into some self-publishing stuff later on. But right now, before we head over to the cozy cabin, um i wanted to ask, because because you've been writing and publishing for, you know, traditionally, and like we just talked about, self-publishing for a while now. What advice would you have for writers who are trying to find their way into publishing and getting their stories out into the world?
Advice for Aspiring Writers
00:20:29
Speaker
I would say find as many critiques. if and along the way as possible. um I went, I was really lucky. I was able, i had the freedom to apply to a six week residential workshop when I was in my twenties. It was, it's called the Clarion West fantasy and science fiction writing workshop. And at the time it was six weeks long. It was sort of bootcamp for writers is how it's described. And you know, you go, you live in a residence hall with a whole bunch of other writers who've made it in its competitive process. um And
00:21:04
Speaker
So there's seventeen of there were 17 of us, and we each had to write one short story a week, and we each had to critique everyone else's short short stories every week. And you just learned an enormous amount, as much from reading each other's work, as from getting the critiques for our own. Because actually, you learn so much when you read someone else's work that isn't quite there yet. And you think, why isn't it there? And you think, oh, because you know they're doing this. And you think, oh, wait, I do that too. Yeah. So you learn a lot from critiquing other people's work as well as from getting to other people who love the kind of books that you love you know to read your work. And I've also tried ah online writing workshops in the past to try to do similar things. There are various online options for people who don't have a writing group that's helpful in the area.
00:21:56
Speaker
And anything that gets you trading critiques is just a huge benefit. i I don't want to get too didactic on this point because
00:22:10
Speaker
i think partly there is a generational issue here. a For myself, I was very grateful that self-publishing wasn't an option until I'd been forced to get good enough to sell traditionally because i know myself – And in my early 20s, I was so desperate to be published. I would have yeah absolutely thrown up you know my novel.
00:22:37
Speaker
whenever you know Just as soon as I got it turned down by enough agents, i' would say, okay, fine. um It's a good one. And it wouldn't have been my best work. And I was capable of becoming so much better. And now I feel very confident self-publishing.
00:22:49
Speaker
But adding on to that, I want to say every single piece of information I've gotten confirms that it is harder to get published now than it was when I first broke in 2008. So I'm not saying if you can't break into the traditional publishing, you're not good enough to get published. That's absolutely untrue. There are a zillion reasons why you know certain books are will do better with self-publishing or will not seem commercial enough to persuade a traditional publisher, but will do fabulously you know in the self-publishing arena.
00:23:22
Speaker
And they're just as good a books. They're just not what you know They just don't break through into traditional publishing for whatever reason. So I don't think you need to be – I'm not telling anyone they have to do traditional publishing first at all. What I'm saying is I think it will really help you in the long term for your career if you can be as brutal with your own work as possible in terms of taking the time you need. to be sure and get outside confirmation from other people that it really is what you want to represent you in the world. Because every time I put out a book, I'm very conscious that whoever picks that up may not have read anything else by me before. And they're going to be judging me as a writer and deciding whether to keep reading based on it. yes So I just think it's really, really important to do whatever you can to make sure that the quality of your work is at
00:24:19
Speaker
as high a level as it possibly can be before it goes out anywhere, whether that's to try publishing or whether that's to self-publishing. Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing to note is that nowadays there's so many support systems and and ah freelance individuals and like even just like small companies now, for if you're self-publishing, you can get a an editor, you know you can get a professional editor, you can get copy edit you can get everything done. Absolutely. Obviously, you're going to have to pay a bit of money, but you can get everything done to the same level as ah as a traditional publisher.
00:24:56
Speaker
and If you're willing to, you know, seek out, do the research, figure out what you need. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. And listen to them. Cause I would say the one thing that is different when you're self-publishing is when you are the one who's hiring the editor, they don't, they don't have the power in that situation to say, no, it's not good enough. You can't publish yet.
00:25:19
Speaker
Yes. So it does just ah again, require that extra level of self- yeah self, i don't know, willpower is the right word. But, you know, yeah just being, if you if you disagree with your editor, the editor you've hired, obviously, sometimes we just everyone disagrees with their editors and is right often.
00:25:42
Speaker
But, you know, consider that they might have a point that lies behind the suggestion that you disagree with. um With both traditional editors and self-publishing editors, What I have tended to do is try to figure out, if they make a suggestion that I disagree with, try to figure out what the actual issue is that they're trying to solve. Because most of the time, that is a real issue. I just don't want to solve it the way they did. Yeah. um Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:26:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, the thing I've learned about um critique and feedback is is ah that a lot of people have said some like quite witty quotes about this kind of thing. But the crux of it is that when people tell you something is wrong, they're always right about that there is an issue in a certain area, but they're usually not ah and that're usually not correct in that how you're supposed to fix it.
00:26:41
Speaker
Absolutely. Yes. Absolutely. So... i mean I'll also say that, like many authors, I have a long tradition of seeing my editor's letter crying, i thinking it's impossible, and then coming back in a few days and working out how to do it.
00:26:55
Speaker
Okay, good. Yes. and and And also, my final point, I guess, with any critiques is also, though, just to make sure that you are working with someone who likes the kind of things that you do. Because every so often, you know if you get a critique from someone who hates the particular tropes you're working with, it's not going to be as helpful.
00:27:14
Speaker
You know, if someone thinks, oh, this would be books are always better if the roman romance is tragic. Like that's not the person to hand around romantic comedy to. Sure. Yes. Yeah, exactly. Or, you know, if someone just doesn't like science fiction and they're editing your science fiction novel, it's not going to be a great fit, is it?
00:27:31
Speaker
Exactly. um Awesome. um some Some great advice in there. and We've reached the point in the episode where I ask you, Stephanie, if you were snowed in at a cozy woodland cabin in the middle of nowhere, what book would you hope to have with you?
Whimsical Book Choice Question
00:27:45
Speaker
o This is such a good question. and Honestly, that sounds like such a dream to me right now. I am going i am sort of a torn honestly, between two favorites that have been my favorite since I was very young. I would rather, that i think i think it has to be a collected edition, and it's collected edition of either Jane Austen or the full Lord of the Rings trilogy all in one book, because those are the two things I can imagine just sinking into for total comfort and entertainment over you know a long period of time. that i would just It would make me very happy to is to escape into that.
00:28:25
Speaker
Okay. Are those, so like Jane Austen, Pride Preasures, all of those, and Lord of the Rings, are those things that you kind of grew up reading? Those are both things that my dad read to me as my bedtime stories when I was a kid, which I absolutely, i feel like laid the path for everything I've written as an adult.
00:28:46
Speaker
I was going to say, I can see how you got to where you are with romantic fantasy. Exactly.
00:28:53
Speaker
um Amazing. um Well, that's a great answer. And I know for a fact, because other people have proved it to me, that you can get a bound copy of all of the Lord of the Rings books as well. Yes, absolutely. So it's one or the other. yes If only someone would want to do a bound edition of the collected Austen and Tolkien, that would be perfect.
00:29:14
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, an interesting combination, perhaps, to have as one book. Absolutely. Yeah, that that would be perfect for you. um so next up, we are going to chat about um a bit more into the self-publishing and the mechanics of that. And then also Stephanie's writing process, where the stories start, how things have evolved over the years. That will all be available on patreon.com forward slash right and wrong.
00:29:43
Speaker
The fact that you have to shelve manuscript one year doesn't mean that that's the end. It just means it might have to wait 10 years or 15 years or 20 years until it's the right time for that story. Yeah. So much of it's just what's in the zeitgeist.
00:29:58
Speaker
Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing. um Well, that brings us to the end of the episode. Thank you so much, Stephanie, for coming on and and telling us everything about everything that you've been up to and about your kind of writing journey and and your writing adventures. um Enchanting the Fae Queen is out January 29th in the UK, 27th in the US, in all the usual places. um But yeah, it's been so fun chatting. Thank you so much, Stephanie. It's been great. Thank you so much.
Where to Follow Stephanie Online
00:30:24
Speaker
And for anyone wanting to keep up with what Stephanie is doing, you can find her on Blue Sky at Stephanie Burgess, on Instagram at Stephanie Burgess in Wales. ah You can find her on Patreon as well and on her website, stephanieburgess.com. To support this podcast, like, follow and subscribe. Join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcast, The Chosen Ones and Other Tropes.
00:30:45
Speaker
Thanks again, Stephanie. And thanks to everyone listening. We will catch you on the next episode. Shout out time. One of my amazing patrons, Lee Foxton, is querying their debut novel. It's a family drama, commercial fiction, along the lines of Jojo Moyes and David Nichols. Fingers crossed. I am rooting for you. Good luck.