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276 Isabel Lineberry | Literary Agent
142 Plays7 hours ago
Literary agent, Isabel Lineberry joins us this week to chat about her journey in publishing, what it's like to build a list from the early stages of being a literary agent and how she tackles query letters.
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Transcript
Importance of Writing in Plot Development
00:00:00
Speaker
Oh, a spicy question. I love Because the writing is sort everything, right? Like you can fix plot holes, but if the writer... So some readers love that and some readers are like, but I wanted more of this. So it's kind of, it's kind of a gamble.
Introduction to the Podcast with Isabel Lineberry
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to the Right and Wrong podcast. On today's episode, I am joined by literary agent, Isabel Lineberry. Hello. Hi, thank you so much for having me.
00:00:25
Speaker
Thanks so much for coming on. um Let's jump right in. And with literary agents, I always like to hear about the kind of origin of how you got into the publishing, how how you became a literary
Isabel's Journey into Publishing
00:00:36
Speaker
agent. um So I guess the starting point for that is, is working in publishing or being a literary agent, is that something that you had always wanted to be in like the direction you always headed in?
00:00:50
Speaker
Publishing, yes. Agenting, no. um I'm from the American Southwest and was always a book nerd and loved it. And so when I was 16, I sort of discovered publishing. knew I didn't want to be an author. and didn't really sort of have stories in my head that i and a desire to put them on paper.
00:01:10
Speaker
okay Okay. But um I've always been very logical as well as creative. So I discovered publishing, set my sights on it, but I didn't discover agenting until I was getting my master's um at the University of Glasgow. And I went to a talk where an agent was on the panel and I just really connected with how she viewed publishing versus other people on the panel who were authors or in marketing you know She really talked about it as a business as well as a creative endeavor.
00:01:39
Speaker
So i um I cornered her after the panel and asked how I get into agenting. And she said, well, there's no direct path, but you can always cold email to get more information and see if anyone's hiring.
00:01:51
Speaker
So I cold emailed 80 literary agents in London. Wow. and Okay. Yeah. Three got back to me. One gave me a very lovely call where I learned a lot. One gave me a call and then never called me and one offered me a coffee and that was Christina Perez.
00:02:06
Speaker
And that's how I ended up Perez Literary.
Family Ties and Education in Literature
00:02:09
Speaker
Okay. Wow. So did I mean, you you kind of glossed over the fact that you literally moved. Yes. Continent. to to Was that just like completely separate or was that within your your degree in Scotland, it was in literature, I'm guessing? fantasy, actually. ah Okay. It's very specific. and And was that, did you move over to the UK because that was like very much a degree you wanted to do or did you move over for like separate reasons?
00:02:39
Speaker
Um, my family, my grandfather was born um in London and then immigrated to the States um after okay after World War II. And then my mom actually went to high school in London because she was sort of raised all over the world. So I always had a connection to the UK and wanted to move
Career Path in Literary Agenting
00:02:56
Speaker
over here. So I found the only fantasy degree out there sort of accidentally and fell in love with the idea. I moved to Scotland, um which is the perfect place to study fantasy. But I knew that I had big dreams for publishing
00:03:11
Speaker
in a way that as much as I love Scotland and miss it terribly, just didn't quite work. So I moved moved south to London. Yes. I mean, in the UK, publishing very much revolves around, like a lot of things in the UK, yeah revolves around London.
00:03:24
Speaker
I mean, realistically, it's New York and London, unfortunately. i mean, there are definitely pockets elsewhere, but. Yeah. Okay. So that's cool. Just cold calling literary agents.
00:03:36
Speaker
Mm-hmm. I mean, as far as I can tell from lot of people I've spoken to, you know, the most common route to becoming a literary agent is you kind of become an intern or an agency assistant, and then it's just sort of work your way up from there. yeah I guess definite that that's a pretty standard route. it's It's funny because it's one of the few industries, I guess, you can still kind of do that in. Hard to just cold call in some other industries.
00:03:58
Speaker
Yeah, and I mean, I have to say that I think a lot of times it doesn't work, but I've also heard a lot of other times that it has for other people. i mean, agenting is such like a mentorship and apprenticeship-based thing.
00:04:11
Speaker
um industry because you have to learn so much. And it's a lot of it is things that you can't learn until you're in it.
Role and Responsibilities of a Literary Agent
00:04:18
Speaker
And it is a rather hidden part of the, of the industry as well. Like a lot of people don't know about it.
00:04:24
Speaker
So you just kind of have to get, I mean, it's so annoying, but everyone always says it, you have to get your foot in the door. um And I really think it's getting, getting that opportunity is, is the crossroads between hard work and good luck.
00:04:37
Speaker
Yeah. And you're, you're by no means the first literary agent that I've spoken to who have have sort of been like, I think I'll try and work in publishing. And then they discover what a literary agent is.
00:04:50
Speaker
And then they're like, oh no that's what I want to do. That's, that seems like a cool job that I didn't know existed. Yes, exactly. It's the perfect combination of a little bit of everything. Yes. Yeah. Which can be a lot, but I think most of the people I've spoken to have said that that's the kind of joy of It's like every day is different and you're always doing different things with different people.
00:05:07
Speaker
Definitely. Yeah. Talking about you then and your list, uh, you've been at Perez for, for a while now, Perez Literary. Um, and you've been building your list is even been, you started your list about a year ago.
00:05:21
Speaker
Yeah. So, um I mean, I came on as agency assistant right when we launched three years ago. and my boss, Christina was at a different agency and then started her own. Um, she was on your podcast. So if anyone wants to know about that, yes she was go to that one. Um, but yeah, I started as agency assistant and was promoted fairly early to junior agent. Um, and I started co-representing things, which I still do from k Christina's list and sort of the broader agency list. And then I took on my first client about a year ago.
00:05:51
Speaker
So now I have two as well as a couple of others that I've sort of adopted from Christina's list.
Interest in YA and Children's Books
00:05:56
Speaker
Okay. So you're you're you're still in single digits in terms of your own list? Yes, because I work across the agency list. I'm also the rights administrator. i do a lot of our audio. um so I would say only about job is my own list.
00:06:11
Speaker
Okay, okay, okay. But and presumably, you know, you are looking to grow that list yeah and and build out your own kind of um stack of authors. ah So in terms of what you're looking for, your list, what sorts of genres and what age groups do you represent?
00:06:30
Speaker
Yeah, I think I've really laid claim to... children's YA new adult. I've always loved sort of children's and YA and I think the new adult space is really interesting. But then within those sort of age groups, I have sort of a wide remit. Obviously, I have a master's degree in fantasy. So that is where my true love lies. But I'm also very picky with it because I know so much and I can't abide poor world building. It's the bane of my existence.
00:07:06
Speaker
um And I do. i love romance. I love sort of romance within a bunch of genres. Yeah. So yeah, I'd say right now it's really wide. And I think especially with middle grade and y a those genres are in a bit of a flow, so like flux state right now where things are are changing. So I'm definitely keeping my eye on it and trying to keep my finger on the pulse. I've been having a lot of meetings lately to try and figure out where YA is headed. um So yeah, I would say that right now it's sort of more in the age groups. And then within that, I'm trying to figure out what's best to go in what direction.
Evolution of the YA Genre
00:07:42
Speaker
Yeah. So in terms of YA being and in a bit of a weird space right now, is that partly because of things like um new adult crossover, which are kind of more emergent categories, I guess?
00:07:56
Speaker
Yeah. So what has been happening the last couple of years is with the i emergence of romanticcy and new adult, which is really important. Like new adult is so interesting because, you know, people in their 20s do go through a second coming of age, leaving school, entering the workforce, making friends outside of a classroom for the first time. So that's really interesting.
00:08:16
Speaker
But that sort of focus pushed y a older. um Publishers always wanted YA protagonists to be around 18 that it could have crossover appeal. It could be for YA readers and new adult readers.
00:08:31
Speaker
um And that left sort of true YA behind, the 15-year-olds, 16-year-olds, and even 17 where university college isn't quite on the mind yet.
00:08:43
Speaker
You know, you're having your first kisses, your first times, sort of the crush down the hallway. um and I think we're finally, I've heard from a lot of publishers that they're really missing that.
Publishing Trends and Cycles
00:08:55
Speaker
um So whether it's going to work for it to come back yet, I don't know, but I'm definitely watching it because I would love to sort of get some of those earth earlier stories back onto shelves.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah. I'd wondered if it was that YA was going to go get younger because new adult feels like it's expanded into the space where the the older YA was kind of reaching up to.
00:09:20
Speaker
and then YA would become very much that category that you're talking about. I mean, I think older YA was just new adult when we didn't always have the term for it. yeah And I definitely credit new adult with the fact that the generation that were teenagers when Hunger Games and you know Harry Potter, you know those generations are now older and wanting books that made them feel like they did when they were younger.
00:09:45
Speaker
So you know i think new adult has now established itself and is here to stay, which is a really good thing. um But in the way that publishing is very cyclical, we need the trends to go to go back to pick up the ones that we've left behind. you know Middle grade is still...
00:10:04
Speaker
um You know, there's always room for middle grade, which is great, but that really sort of ends right at 12 at the upper. So I just, I'm really hoping that we're going to see some return to sort of 14, 15, 16. Yeah.
00:10:20
Speaker
Yeah, because i've what I've heard is that that that kind of tween age group is is notoriously difficult to sell to publishers. Notoriously
Self-Publishing and Traditional Publishing
00:10:29
Speaker
difficult. So I wouldn't say I'm looking for what's called teen, but i'm looking I would love a true YA that I felt had the potential to really break into the market.
00:10:41
Speaker
Yeah. Okay, cool. um Still on your list and things, maybe I'm jumping ahead of myself a little bit here, but I just wanted to ask quickly because it's been an interesting topic I've discussed with agents recently.
00:10:54
Speaker
How do you feel about people submitting who are already published? Are they self-published or they indie published? How do you feel about them submitting to to you as an agent? I'm open to it.
00:11:06
Speaker
um yeah I think in my free time, I do read a lot on Kindle Unlimited. mean, I was raised on Wattpad. I was reading Wattpad when I was way too young. I feel like that's the natural movement to Kindle Unlimited. And I love what the self-published space is doing along with the indie publishing space.
00:11:26
Speaker
I think there are probably some elements of self-publishing that should stay in self-publishing. Some of the truly darker or nicher sort of storytelling, especially within romance and romanticy, i don't know, needs to move into the TradPub space. I think that's, you know, a case by case basis, but TradPub is really looking at SelfPub to see what's working there.
00:11:50
Speaker
so no, I'm definitely open to it. i mean, especially if you have, if the if the querying author has any kind of platform that can always be really useful, um not only for US and UK, but also for foreign, which is it interesting.
00:12:05
Speaker
I think with Self Pub, I'm always worried that authors are going to be disappointed because they go from a place where they have so much control over everything to giving up some of that control.
00:12:19
Speaker
And, you know, it's, you always have authors that aren't a massive fan of the cover or, you know, wish their original title could have been kept. So I'm, you know, I'm aware of those.
00:12:32
Speaker
um perhaps growing pains, but I'm always open to it. um i think I think people with an established backlist in any form is very interesting, whether they just want to move into Trabbub bring that backlist with them.
00:12:48
Speaker
Yeah, because it's it's an interesting shift in in the view of things. I think maybe like even five years ago, but like 10 years ago, the idea of ah someone having indie published seemed like it would hurt their chances of landing with an agent, landing with a traditional publisher. But now I think it's become much more of a boon and people are saying that actually, yeah, if you've successfully self-published a novel or two, ah then that's actually, publishers are very much interested in that. And and you know like you're saying, because you have an audience almost built in with you as you as you go to the the publisher.
00:13:23
Speaker
Yeah. And you have a proven track record, you know, perhaps in a different way, you know, not everything, not all platforms will follow into trad pub or whatnot, but you do have this proof in the numbers that people bought your book. Um, and I think it, it can be really interesting also to sort of let that continue and then move into a different place. I'm really excited about a um,
00:13:51
Speaker
a sports and spies romance that's releasing from Bonnie and June from Kate Williams called fake out make out. um And Kate Williams is also MK Williams. And she has published self published a lot of sort of sci-fi and has this really wonderful, dedicated following who support her. And so that's been really fun, you know, within Chad pub to move her into romance and rom-com. But,
00:14:19
Speaker
but yeah, I'm always including that she has this this background and she has a YouTube channel. You know, it's just, it's ah it's a fun new addition for the strategy and for the package.
Agents Using Social Media and Platforms
00:14:30
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. It's a lot more avenues for like marketing purposes and outreach and finding and connecting with the with the audience. Yeah. um On from this then, the the and and this is another discussion i've having more frequently because I think it's interesting. is that with nonfiction, it's always been the way that um agents have sort of sought out writers to fight specific to write specific nonfiction, whether that's because you know they are a journalist or someone within that industry or whatever it may be. I've spoken to a few agents recently who have started
00:15:07
Speaker
you know, looking through content creation platforms or like self-publishing areas to, to find fiction authors. And then the agents are obviously, you know, seeing if they would be interested in representation and maybe moving into traditional. Is that something that you would, are doing or have done or think about doing?
00:15:28
Speaker
i think every once in a while I'll read something that I really love and I'll just go and check if they have an agent. um But realistically, it's not something I'm actively doing.
00:15:41
Speaker
I think... Okay. Passively doing it. Yeah, I'm someone whose brain doesn't turn off. Okay. if if If I think that maybe I've found some undiscovered brilliance, I'll always just you know click through their website and see if they have any listed. Again, i'm I'm the rights administrator, so sometimes that's just you know it's it's less to bring it into the US s or UK trad pub, but it's more like, hmm, has this sold in Germany? Has this sold right elsewhere? you know Would they be interested in that?
00:16:15
Speaker
So I'm not actively doing it. But I think part of part of my job is to be tapped into what's happening. So it's always okay a little bit in the back of my head, but I'm not there. I know that there are some agents that scour KU and AO3 and all of that kind of thing. And I'm not doing that. Mm-hmm.
00:16:37
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. And there's the someone I've spoken to who is just on like TikTok, you know, just going through book talk. And there's a lot these, I've spoken to authors who have been planning to self-publish and they've been doing all the buildup. They've got like a decent following on social media. And then just, you know, months out from it the book coming out, ah a traditional publisher, this is more editors doing this, but then a traditional publisher comes in and says, don't self-publish this. You can traditionally publish it with us.
00:17:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think I've sent a couple DMs every once in a while on TikTok. Just being like, more specifically when I stumble across someone who seems to have a good story idea and they're talking about starting to query. And so yeah I'll be like, this is my query manager link.
00:17:23
Speaker
um None of that has quite worked out yet, but I've still, you know, fingers crossed. Sometimes I catch someone a little bit too early. And so right it's it's more like, Hey, I like this out of this. Once you get around to it, this is my link.
00:17:40
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. yeah and And maybe those will come to fruition at some point, but yeah, can't hurt. Right.
Niche Genres and Preferences
00:17:45
Speaker
Exactly. Okay. That's cool. Yeah. And it's always, it's always nice to hear that the, the industry and like everyone working in the industry is adapting to the new kind of developments and these new innovations happening within it.
00:17:56
Speaker
Yeah, I'm really aware that some of my value proposition at my agency is the fact that I'm on TikTok and I'm on KU and I'm very happy with that. I'm always happy to be the voice of what's happening in tropes or, you know, what what are we seeing in terms of Gen Z and and younger sort of perspectives and that kind of thing.
00:18:17
Speaker
Yeah. And that's given the, yeah, how big book talk has become and how, how much of an influence it has. I think, yeah, it's obviously important to have that kind of connection with, with that audience and that community. Yeah. Um, I just have a couple more questions before we head over to the cabin, uh, in terms of what you're looking for, is there, we talked in a broader sense, but is there any, like a specific setting or a character or a trope that you are very actively seeking that you would love to add to your list?
00:18:48
Speaker
Realistically, no, but I have these like weird niche things that I'm always looking for. Okay. And less in a way that I'm positive that it will sell and more just I want it.
00:19:00
Speaker
And yeah if I see something that can do it well, I'd be very interested in it. like I've seen in Waterstones lately, um Allie Carter's If I Tell You I Love You Then I'd Have to Kill You is suddenly being stalked again. which is a YA spy school for girls.
00:19:18
Speaker
But then they use their spy skills to get their friend a date with a local boy. like Okay. And it was just iconic. um So you know like a YA spy thing would be really fun.
00:19:31
Speaker
um I really want a cruise romance. um Okay. Recently, you know I feel like curling needs needs a sports romance. Oh yes. there's just Following the Winter Olympics, we need it. Yes. Yeah, step aside ice hockey, curling's in town.
00:19:51
Speaker
Everyone watches curling because it's on constantly. Because they play so many games. I grew up, my I've convinced my boss of this because she didn't realize how often people watch curling when it's on for the Winter Olympics.
00:20:05
Speaker
um So yeah, I think there's always those weird things I'm looking for. Ultimately, i mean, within the fantasy space, I want really good world building. um I really love a romance through line.
00:20:19
Speaker
Female revenge is always fun. and then I think on the younger scale, you know, some boy led, really funny middle grade characters.
00:20:30
Speaker
but is rooted in true feelings and true experiences is always, you know, has a lot of potential in terms of the market.
00:20:42
Speaker
i always love smart women, smart girls. Yeah, I think right now i'm I'm pretty open because I'm so early on in my list that it's more, yeah i know it when I see it.
00:20:54
Speaker
Okay, but a curling romance. I want it.
Editorial Interests and Writing
00:20:58
Speaker
That's, that's gonna, yeah. That's specific if we had to pin one down. Realistically, i don't know that it would have enough oomph to it.
00:21:08
Speaker
However, anyone out there has one. However, right writer ah could make it work. Exactly. Yeah. Okay, cool. And ah just one more before we go to the cabin. And that is, and i I think you kind of maybe alluded to the answer of this earlier, but it's a question I always like to ask agents is, would you or have you ever thought about writing and publishing a book of your own?
00:21:33
Speaker
No. no No. I thought so. Yeah, i i love that being an agent means that I get to play a part in idea creation and plotting and sort of figuring out um how a book should go.
00:21:53
Speaker
and I find a lot of really fun logic in helping with world building and with just sort of character arcs. think it's really fun to find the holes and figure out how to fill them. But in terms of the actually putting a sentence on paper, i have no interest.
00:22:12
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Strictly editorial, you know, come in once, once the the document's there and you're like, okay, here's a few things we can tweak. Well, I love brainstorming. I love, you know, tell me this idea and I'll ask you a bunch of questions. You know, again, the logic of all of that is so much fun. But yeah, on a sentence level, it's not my jam.
00:22:35
Speaker
Okay. Okay, not at all. This doesn't even sound like a never say never. This sounds like a yo like you know you know what's up. Yeah. And I think i'm I'm somewhat unique in that. I think a lot of people in publishing at least have one story in them.
00:22:50
Speaker
And yeah, I mean, I've got starts of stories in my head, but they're more for me to maladaptive daydream and less for me to put on put on a page. Yeah. And that's fine. And and and and that's good too.
Favorite Books and Influences
00:23:02
Speaker
um Okay, cool. So we're at the point where I ask you, Isabel, if you were snowed in at a cozy woodland cabin in the middle of nowhere, which book would you hope to have with you?
00:23:15
Speaker
It's an easy one for me. It's um Squire by Tamora Pierce or Tamara Pierce. i don't know. i've called her Tamora Pierce since I was seven and first found her books. So I might be incorrect. But Squire is the third book in a quartet. And it's like the third series in this world of Tortell that Tamora Pierce has been writing in since the 80s.
00:23:36
Speaker
She's an incredible feminist author writing sort of middle grade in YA before there was middle grade in YA. And she's one of the mothers of sword and sorcery fantasy.
00:23:47
Speaker
And okay Squire follows um the years where Kel, the main character, is Squire she's trying to get um her knighthood. And it's my favorite book of all time.
00:23:59
Speaker
it My copy is very worn. um i i reread it and all of ah Pierce's books once a year at least. I wrote my dissertation. on Tamora Pierce and her female characters for my masters.
00:24:13
Speaker
So that is, and I still love it, which is something to be said. So, yes, i was going to say there's no, there's no better like a review of a book than I studied this academically and I still love the book. I still love it.
00:24:27
Speaker
And I, yeah every time I read it, i get something different out of it. You know, when I was younger, i just loved you know, the strong female characters and the story, but, you know, older I get, the more I reread it.
00:24:40
Speaker
What's really incredible about Kel. Okay. I'm going to get into this a little bit. Okay. Alanna, which is sort of the first character that Tamora Pierce wrote is a legend, right? She's, she's one of those characters where no one could top her because she has magic. She has determination. She's one of one.
00:24:58
Speaker
And that is really incredible. Kel is her sort of direct character. um second in terms of women trying for knighthood. And the entire thing about Kel is she's not one of one.
00:25:09
Speaker
She is more, quote unquote, ordinary. And, you know, where Alanna is a hero and someone that roams around doing incredible things, Kel is a commander. She's a good leader.
00:25:22
Speaker
You know, she's boots on the ground. um She's determined and she's kind. She's called the protector of the small. And I just, I've always really loved sort of that perspective on it.
00:25:33
Speaker
Yeah. And I mean, these, these books are classics. I'm shocked. It's wild to me that there hasn't been like a movie or television adaptation of these books. Yeah. there's Adaptations we've seen.
00:25:45
Speaker
There's like, um there is an animated protector of the small series coming out, I think, but it's not like us s or UK based. I forget where it's being made. Okay. Okay.
00:25:56
Speaker
I think it's just, it would take a lot of money because it's entirely in like this medieval fantasy world. Yeah, I guess. But it's, you know, there's a lot of fantasy. It seems like they're all trying to do fantasy. We're getting a new Eragon series and stuff. Yeah, that's true. Tamora Pierce is this really interesting author where if you know her, she's one of your favorites, like all-time favorites, or you've never heard of her. Mm-hmm.
00:26:22
Speaker
Which is really annoying because I think yeah she needs to be in the in the discussions with Le Guin and with Octavia Butler and sort of all of the all of the really incredible female fantasy writers.
00:26:36
Speaker
The greats.
Episode Conclusion and Contact Information
00:26:37
Speaker
Yeah, I absolutely agree. um And that brings us to the end of this portion of the episode. Next up, we are going to talk about querying submissions, cover letters. ah That, along with all of the extended episodes, will be available at www.patreon.com forward slash right and wrong.
00:26:58
Speaker
Annoying answer because we already represent her, but that was, that book really was incredible. and is incredible and i can't wait to see it on shelves. Okay, great. Well, another recommendation there for for people listening to, to go and look for. Um, amazing.
00:27:13
Speaker
Well, that brings us to the end of the episode. Thank you so much, Isabel, for coming on and chatting with me and telling me all about your kind of journey into becoming a literary agent, as well as what you're, what you're up to at the agency and, and your, your approach to submissions and queries. It's been, it's been super informative and interesting chatting with you.
00:27:32
Speaker
Yeah, thank you so much for having me on. This hass been a blast. And for anyone listening, if you were if you would like to um contact Isabel or submit to her, you can find all the information that you need about her and the rest of the team at PerezLiterary at PerezLiterary.com, as well as the submission guidelines and the links to the query trackers. To support this podcast, like, follow and subscribe. Join the Patreon for ad-free extended episodes and check out my other podcasts, The Chosen Ones and Other.
00:27:58
Speaker
tropes thanks again isabel and thanks to everyone listening we will catch you on the next episode