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ONE Man & Woman | Ephesians Episode 20
39 Plays3 months ago
Danny and Shane discuss the sermon on Ephesians 5 and unpack what biblical roles in marriage look like. They discuss submission, love, leadership, and how we should operate in our modern culture.
Refrences
Books: The Silence of Adam by Larry Crab, Marriage on the Rock by Jimmy Evans, Love and Respect by Emerson Eggerichs
Bible Verses: Ephesians 5, 1 Peter 3, Genesis 2:20-22
Podcasts/Youtube: Matt Chandler (The Village Church Sermon Series on Godly Men from 2025), Mike Winger (Women in Leadership Series Chapter 9 "Have we Misunderstood Wives Submit")
Recommended
Transcript
Episode Introduction
00:00:29
Danny Price
Hey, everyone. Welcome to episode 20 of Table Talk Recap. um Really cool. We're 20 episodes in. Just keep chugging along. ah we're I'm here with Shane. We're going to go over the message um from this last week, which is titled One Man and One Woman.
Ephesians 5 Discussion & Shane's Perspective Change
00:00:48
Danny Price
um And Shane, remind me again, we're jumping forward just a little bit in Ephesians 5, just because um Dave Nelson's preaching next week. Is that right?
00:00:57
shane
Yeah, he's preaching and he felt more comfortable with the other passage. Plus, I did tell him that I had some movement in my views on this passage, and I wanted to share that um with the church.
00:01:11
Danny Price
Right.
00:01:14
shane
Yeah.
00:01:15
Danny Price
Right on. Nice. ah Just so you don't have to explain it and use your voice. Shane's sick. He gets his he gets this throat thing.
00:01:21
shane
Yeah, and what's funny is I'm fine i'm actually fine, but I just i have to talk through. Yeah, it's gross. You don't want to hear it.
00:01:30
Danny Price
No. you yeah Well, yeah, you have you've always had this throat issue for as long as I've known you. Which it hits this time of year pretty much consistently, so... Everyone that knows you who's probably listening to this podcast realizes that, but just in case you don't know that, this a classic Shane thing.
00:01:43
shane
Yep. Yep.
Weekly Updates & Personal Challenges
00:01:47
Danny Price
so um Before we get into the questions, um what's been going on with you recently? How has your week been besides being sick? Anything interesting or anything going on?
00:01:57
shane
um Other than being sick, I mean, it's been crazy. um As you know, we're looking at youth candidates and we had one out for the week. I celebrated a birthday, which made me older, and which, you know, ah is is fun for for other reasons, but not the older part.
00:02:08
Danny Price
Right.
00:02:18
shane
And yeah, other than that, how about you?
00:02:19
Danny Price
Yeah.
Car Buying Challenges
00:02:22
Danny Price
Not a lot. We're trying to buy a car right now.
00:02:26
shane
That's right. you guys are looking at minivans.
00:02:28
Danny Price
Yeah. Well, actually, it's funny. We're looking at minivans. We're really looking for anything with seven seats or six. Six seats, I guess, is all right, but a third row. um So i've we me and ha Hannah's really set on minivan, but we've been looking at other options just because, man,
00:02:45
Danny Price
The only option for a minivan with all-wheel drive, which we kind of need, is a Toyota Sienna. It's really expensive. I mean, there're even like with 100,000 miles, it's really expensive. So
00:02:55
shane
Yeah, but I will say they you can put 200 on them, so.
00:02:59
Danny Price
I know. I know. So we're looking at that. We're also looking at some other options of like there's like honda like a Honda Pilot. And um there's a Toyota.
00:03:07
shane
Yeah.
00:03:07
Danny Price
I can't think of the name of it.
00:03:08
shane
Yeah, handnna Hannah does love her minivans, though.
00:03:08
Danny Price
But yeah, there's ones with third rows. I know. So that's that part's hard. So we're trying to figure out what's the best option. um
00:03:17
shane
Yeah.
00:03:18
Danny Price
So if anyone's listening and you guys are selling, I'm just kidding. um Maybe you are selling a minivan.
00:03:22
shane
Maybe you want to donate one to a guy young couple in ministry.
00:03:27
Danny Price
Yeah, right. That too. um Anyways, we can jump into the questions.
Listener Question: Shane's Change in View
00:03:32
Danny Price
um The first question is actually from one of our listeners, Ken Town. And I thought it was a perfect question just to jump into it, just because you even introduced the idea a second ago.
00:03:42
Danny Price
um going to read his question just verbatim. How did your view change from last year when you preached on the scripture and why? So you mentioned that earlier in the sermon and you just mentioned it.
00:03:52
shane
Yeah, yeah, that's,
00:03:55
Danny Price
Now, what's the change?
00:03:57
shane
well, so, well, first of all, the change is a lot of, not not a lot, yeah, a lot of people attach verse 21, which I don't have it open, um but basically after Paul, there we go, I just opened it,
00:04:15
shane
After Paul talks about what it looks like at the very end of his this section in ah verse 1 through 20, where he's talking about what it looks like to walk in love, he says, submitting to one another out reverence for Christ.
00:04:27
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Hmm.
00:04:31
shane
So a lot of people poll have started to kind of say, well, really that that part can go with 22 and following.
00:04:43
shane
Um, and it's kind of all one continuous thought, but, but, you know, first of all, the word is submitting.
00:04:47
Danny Price
and
00:04:51
shane
So he's, he's, he's attaching it to the previous verses. And then, um
00:05:00
shane
yeah, I mean, it it just, it's kind of a stretch to to add it to 22 and following. So, but a lot of people said, well, because of
Marriage Roles and Responsibilities
00:05:10
shane
the way he's saying that, he's saying we all submit to one another.
00:05:12
shane
So wives, yes, it does say wives submit to husbands, but but then because of the way husbands are called to love their wives, it's actual mutual submission. And, you know, i guess I would say i kind of bought into that for a while.
00:05:23
Danny Price
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:05:30
shane
Like
00:05:33
shane
i you know, I don't like to be the guy who, you know, makes it go, no, it's this way, you know? And um I kind of, you know, I see the way my wife and I, Tonya and I interact and, and there's so much I i do, I because that's what she wants to do, you know? And so in my mind, I'm kind of like, well, it is kind of mutual submission, but
00:05:57
shane
what we have to look at is that's not the way the passage is really written. You know, the written, the passage just says says very clearly, wives submit to your husbands in everything. it um says, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.
00:06:11
shane
so when you look at those two things, it, it's not that the husband doesn't do what,
00:06:11
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah.
00:06:17
shane
the wife wants, it's that the husband does so because he's, he's sacrificing for her. But when it comes down to it, when there are those times when someone has to make a decision, the wife is called to submit to the husband.
00:06:34
Danny Price
yeah
00:06:38
shane
Now, I think a lot of loving husbands know that 80% the time i we're either going to do what we both want um or, you know, I might even go, yeah, it's not that big of a deal. It doesn't affect too much.
00:06:54
shane
So going to do what she wants. um
00:06:57
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:06:58
shane
But the truth is, I think husbands are spiritually responsible for the marriage. And so that means if you're giving in and making decisions and choices, especially among among things that affect spiritual matters of your family,
00:07:13
shane
you're going to be responsible for things that you didn't even want to do, but that's your fault for doing them.
00:07:13
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:07:18
shane
You know? So don't know. and I don't know if I'm explaining it very clearly, but, but it just, it was a process for me.
00:07:22
Danny Price
No, that makes sense.
00:07:25
shane
I feel like last time i was influenced a lot because i was going through, first of all, we were going through a book. um So I was teaching from Timothy Keller's book.
00:07:36
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:07:37
shane
That's the way he interpreted it. So I would have had to say, hey, this is what the book says, but you know we we actually think this. And part of me was kind of like, well, it's Timothy Keller.
00:07:50
shane
And if you know Timothy Keller very well, I mean, he's a very respected theological pastor.
00:07:54
Danny Price
who Yeah.
00:07:56
shane
So you know i was kind of like almost saying, well, maybe I should just submit to the how he sees it. um So it wasn't necessarily that I fully changed.
00:08:06
shane
It was more that and think I was influenced because I have such a respect for him that I just took what he said instead of saying, well, that's not really what I believe.
00:08:12
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:08:16
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:08:19
shane
So...
00:08:20
Danny Price
Yeah. No, but i think that makes sense. Yeah. ah yeah And yeah, Tim Keller, like you said, like he's a great guy. And there's a lot of different people that have these views that I would say are great men of the Lord and Christians.
00:08:32
Danny Price
This is a secondary thing. um I think if you start looking, if you look at some of this, because I think some I know some marriages, like you said, where the husband and wife, they would just say we're just co-manager and co-manager, let's with the office.
00:08:47
Danny Price
And they think it works great. And like I think you did point that on the sermon that just because it works great doesn't necessarily mean that's what God intended and how he said it he set it up.
00:08:55
shane
Yeah.
00:08:57
Danny Price
But it I would not say this is a salvation thing. Just like if you were talking about women in leadership in terms of churches, um i wouldn't put this in one of those categories of this is something we're supposed to divide
00:09:07
shane
Yeah, no, I think people can still have, yeah, no, I would definitely say people can still have marriages that are that work and people can, you know, are not, not saved if they're not practicing in this way.
00:09:11
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:09:21
shane
But I do think we're,
00:09:22
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:09:24
shane
I think we're choosing not to trust that God will provide when we do it exactly as he says,
The Concept of Submission in Marriage
00:09:33
Danny Price
Right.
00:09:33
shane
when we don't do it that way.
00:09:35
shane
So...
00:09:35
Danny Price
Right. Yeah. And just to get this out of the way, we're going to be talking about this quite a bit, but I think it goes without saying, but I do want to say it anyways, that this is not referring to, think we're talking about submission. We're not referring to like this micromanaging, like abusive style of micromanaging, of like micromanaging submission where, Hey wife, you're not, you have to wear all orange colors and you have to walk like this and you're not allowed to brush your teeth until I say so. There's a certain submission element. I think where people are, are,
00:10:06
Danny Price
have abused it or people fight against it because of that kind of deal.
00:10:07
shane
Yeah, absolutely.
00:10:09
Danny Price
It's like, that's not what we're talking about. We're also not talking about like physical or sexual abuse where a wife is like, well, I have to submit because my, let my husband hurt, you know, beat me. that That's not what we're talking about. Just to get that out of there.
00:10:19
shane
No.
00:10:21
Danny Price
I don't want there to be a, um someone listening and being like, well, they said Shane, Shane and Danny said that's what the biblical interpretation was. Um, but,
00:10:31
shane
Yeah, you know, and and it it really does come down to, you know, the husband is called to love like Christ of the church. And so, you know, he, if he's not, if yeah he's micromanaging his wife's day, or he's like saying, here's what you need to do all day, or here's what you need to make and only make these things for dinner and ah bla blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:10:52
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:10:53
shane
He's not loving like Christ loved the church, you know? So, you know, it, it's just, it's totally out of context.
00:10:56
Danny Price
Right.
00:11:01
shane
If someone tries to move in that direction.
00:11:04
Danny Price
Yeah. I agree. um Next question that I have. And I guess this is a little bit more of an overview question. What would you recommend if someone is struggling with your interpretation of this passage and submission and wives submit submitting to husbands, um which really comes down to a different authority role for husband and wife, what would you recommend for them in terms of resources if they're wanting to learn more about this and kind of explore this for themselves? Who would you recommend reading or listening to, cetera?
00:11:36
shane
Um, you know, there's, there's a few books and pastors. Um, one book that I read a long time ago, and I don't even remember who looked, who wrote it, but it's called the silence of Adam.
00:11:51
Danny Price
I'm going to so i can tell people.
00:11:51
shane
And it's all about how Adam didn't lead with Eve and how that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Cultural Changes and Biblical Teachings
00:12:02
shane
and how that basically put her in a, a, a compromised place.
00:12:10
shane
And, and that really affected me and how I um saw my role as a husband. So that's one I recommend.
00:12:19
Danny Price
Yep.
00:12:20
shane
um There's another, but there's a book called marriage on the rock by Jimmy Evans. um That I think does a pretty good job. He probably leans A little more, i wouldn't say he he he says mutual submission. He definitely doesn't say that.
00:12:40
shane
But there's times where he also just doesn't flat out say it the way I would like him to. But he he he what he does is he talks about how we should be communicating what our needs are.
00:12:53
shane
And most husbands, if they're being really honest, are going to admit that they need respect. They need to be um honored in that way. um And so, so I do like it in that regard.
00:13:06
shane
um There's love and respect. The book love and respect does a good job with it. um Those are probably the ones I know that I would say, you know, I've, I've read them. I've looked at them. I know what they what they say.
00:13:24
shane
I mean, outside of that, it's reading a Bible and commentary and, you know, that kind of stuff.
00:13:28
Danny Price
Yeah, right. OK. Right on. um you listened to this whole pot, the whole podcast from Mike Winger about women in leadership or church leadership.
00:13:38
shane
Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:13:39
Danny Price
he He does have, so I'll back up. I talk about Mike Winger a lot. Um, He's just a podcaster. used to be a pastor and now it's kind of just full-time ministry doing YouTube and podcasting.
00:13:50
Danny Price
I like him because I think he tries to let scripture draw its conclusions. He did this whole podcast series. and' I'm not necessarily, for those of you guys listening, I'm not necessarily saying you should listen to all of it, but he does have, you know, this, his whole podcast.
00:14:03
shane
you talking about the women in ministry one?
00:14:05
Danny Price
Yeah. The women ministry one. I'm not saying everyone should listen to that.
00:14:06
shane
Yeah, no one's going to listen to all that. I barely made it.
00:14:08
Danny Price
It's 42 hours 42, the total total 42 hours.
00:14:10
shane
How many hours? 42.
00:14:11
Danny Price
forty two the total total
00:14:13
shane
Yeah.
00:14:14
Danny Price
forty two hours But here's what i here's what I will say. He does have an episode where he talks about women and men and submission. And the reason he does that is because he thinks that it does trickle down. And he goes into the whole complementarianism versus egalitarianism and you his views on that in what the Bible says. And he gets way into the Greek and way into everything.
00:14:35
Danny Price
His episode on um women's submission is interesting because he addresses a lot of the critiques and the the mutual submission ideas that people have, as well as there's a whole reason that people fight against it because of slavery.
00:14:50
Danny Price
Because like you, and I think you mentioned this in the passage or in the sermon, but in that passage, he's talking about different, three different pairs of like husband, wives, and,
00:14:56
shane
Yeah. Yep.
00:14:57
Danny Price
parents parents um and their and their children, and then slaves and masters. and they're like, well, because we don't believe in slavery and slavery is evil, it discounts everything. And he kind of addresses that. But if you're one of those people who's a nerd like I am, and you're like, that'd be so fun to listen to. I think think that specific episode is like five or six hours long.
00:15:16
Danny Price
ah Listen to it. um His name is Mike Winger. it's You could just type in Mike Winger, women's submission or men and women, and it would come up um in your podcasts. So I'm not necessarily you should listen to the whole thing.
00:15:26
shane
Yeah, and i and and it really is good.
00:15:28
Danny Price
It's a lot.
00:15:29
shane
It really is good. um i actually did listen to the whole 42 hours on the women ministry. um but But yeah, it's probably a little too much for the average person, but it's good stuff.
00:15:41
Danny Price
yeah um it's just and It's interesting the way he brings up just some of the arguments. Anyways. um But speaking of that, what are your thoughts on why why can't we use culture to just dismiss some of these ideas when it comes to submission in the Bible?
00:15:57
Danny Price
And I think no one would argue about husbands loving their wives, but on the submission side, why would why can't why can't we really just say, well, culturally, that was that was a thing for then.
00:16:02
shane
Yeah.
00:16:06
Danny Price
we can't We don't listen to that now.
00:16:08
shane
Well, like I said, my biggest reason is Paul ties it to theology. He ties it to the theology of Christ and the church.
00:16:12
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:16:15
shane
And he says it's it we're meant to reflect that relationship. So if we're meant to reflect that relationship, there is no place ever where Christ submits to the church.
00:16:28
shane
The church always submits to Christ. And when we are not submitting to Christ, the church is always in error. Every time. So... if if there's a theological construct in which it's tied to, then I don't i don't think we can dismiss anything in the Bible it has that has those kind of ties.
00:16:53
shane
You know, um there are things sometimes that are mentioned that, like let's just say um women, women,
00:17:04
shane
not adorning themselves. Right. I can't remember where he says, talks about that.
00:17:06
Danny Price
Sure.
00:17:08
shane
Um, you know, but you know, now we could, we could still apply that at some level of like, Hey, that you don't, you're not going to church to attract attention to yourself.
00:17:09
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:17:22
shane
But so that's kind of what he's saying there, right. Is, but but culturally that was very much a way a woman showed her wealth
00:17:25
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:17:31
shane
um It was very much a way a woman showed um she, ah she was better than the rest of the people.
00:17:31
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:17:38
shane
There was very much ah more of a class system at the time.
00:17:38
Danny Price
Yep.
00:17:41
shane
So culturally you could say, okay, what he's saying there is don't go to church to separate yourself and make yourself look better than other people. Don't go with pride. Don't do that.
00:17:53
shane
Okay.
00:17:54
Danny Price
yep
00:17:54
shane
But he didn't at all go, hey, don't adorn yourself because, and then give some biblical example from the Old Testament or something like that. so So when we see things like that, it's okay sometimes that to look at it a little bit more through a cultural lens. But But any time in scripture, there's actually something theologically given.
00:18:18
shane
i think we're really in a slippery slope if we try to say that's only a cultural thing to look at.
00:18:26
Danny Price
Right. I would also point out there are things, for example, the adorning, where it's only mentioned once.
00:18:35
shane
Yeah. Yep.
00:18:37
Danny Price
Um, and I think with, with scripture, ah this is the case with anything, but you have to, um
00:18:46
Danny Price
Oh, good grief. It's eisegesis and exegesis, and i can't remember for which one is which. All of a sudden, my mind is slipping. But basically, you don't want to do where you just read your meaning in into Scripture and pick one verse that you find your meaning for, but you have to look at the whole of Scripture in its entirety.
00:19:00
Danny Price
And if you look at all of Scripture, and you look at the Old Testament, and you look at the way God set things up with families and households, and you look at the New Testament, and you see what Paul saying, and what Peter says in 1 Peter, um it becomes really difficult to try and make the argument that this would have been a one-time, one-off thing just because the church in
Roles, Value, and Equality in Marriage
00:19:18
Danny Price
Ephesus was was struggling with insubordinate wives um and that and they just needed to submit just in Ephesus or just at that time.
00:19:18
shane
Thank you.
00:19:26
Danny Price
um So i would I would encourage you to take a look at the entirety of scripture and entirety of where you see marriage and how ah God sets up the household and you know man, woman, children.
00:19:38
Danny Price
um this is another thing that I've mentioned too, is I don't know why this is the case. Like I like i i get it and i and I see this in scripture, but for a lot of people that claim that it's unfair or I'm like, yeah, i I understand that. It seems and it's, I can't make any apologies for what scripture says, but that's it's just the way that God seems to have set it up.
00:20:00
Danny Price
ah And I think we just have to be unapologetic about what scripture says while still admit, oh, go ahead.
00:20:03
shane
I actually have some. Go ahead, go ahead.
00:20:07
Danny Price
and i was going to say, we kind of just have to be like, you know what? Like, this doesn't seem fair to me. i wouldn't, like, maybe I wouldn't have done this this way if I was God setting things up, which sounds blasphemous to say, but you get the idea.
00:20:19
Danny Price
i don't know if we can just be, stand in that judgment seat and go, well, I just don't like it. So that that way I have to work around it. Go ahead.
00:20:26
shane
Yeah.
00:20:27
Danny Price
Sorry.
00:20:27
shane
Well, I would say, yeah i don't know if this is the time, but i I do think there are some reasons just looking in the way men and women are made that makes sense.
00:20:36
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:20:38
shane
um
00:20:39
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:20:39
shane
Doesn't mean that men are better, but we are very different. And, you know, if you just look across the board, doesn't mean every once while there's not a woman who is built differently and men who are built differently, bubble bla blah, blah, blah.
00:20:51
shane
Right. But across the board, Throughout history, throughout different cultures, throughout even different religions, throughout all the things, men in general think like have a tendency to think further out where women have a tendency to think about the nurturing and caring of what's right of what's there for them.
00:21:19
shane
You know, what, what they need to take care of right in front of them. um
00:21:23
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:21:24
shane
And, you know, like I said, this is a huge, long discussion and I don't, we don't have time for that right now, but,
00:21:29
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:21:32
shane
I do think if we're just being really honest and we we all admit that once again, we are built differently, um, that, that, that there's reasons for it in the way we're built.
00:21:45
shane
And, um, you know, you could go into the physical strengths, you know, which really mattered up until a hundred years ago. um
00:21:45
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:21:54
Danny Price
Yep. yep
00:21:55
shane
you know, there's there, you could go into a lot of different things, but, You know, i i don't I also think we're also kind of just not being really honest with ourselves if we go, well, I just don't know why God stood up that way.
00:22:09
shane
I think there's some real reasons why.
00:22:13
Danny Price
Yeah, no, that makes sense. I think you would be stretched to try to argue that men and women are the same in, you know physiological, emotional, and um all that stuff. I don't think they're forre the same. we We have different strengths and different abilities.
00:22:27
shane
Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:28
Danny Price
And ah obviously, and that's, you know, I think people would be like, well, there's that, you know, there's certain women that are like this, or there's certain men that are more this way, but across the board, i think we're just seeing as average, averagely, but to say all that.
00:22:39
shane
Yeah, there's always people that are on the other side of it. But I mean, I'm like, I'm in many ways more emotional than Tanya.
00:22:42
Danny Price
Right.
00:22:46
Danny Price
Totally.
00:22:47
shane
But, you know, well, not you guys say totally, you know, I'm just kidding.
00:22:49
Danny Price
Sorry, but it's true. I'm just kidding.
00:22:53
shane
But, but you know, I mean, like, so yeah, obviously, it's not always the same, but it it they still apply. so
00:23:00
Danny Price
Yeah. And I was going to say, I have to say this though. This does not mean different in role does not mean different or unequal in, um value and unequal in their standing before God. Um,
00:23:16
Danny Price
It says in 1 Peter that women are co-heirs with Christ. with their and and This is when he's talking to husbands, when Peter's talking to husbands. But there's there's no inequality, even though there's a different—and I wouldn't even call it inequality, but there's a difference in role. But that does not mean there's inequality in value, in personhood.
00:23:32
Danny Price
which some people would try to argue, but I don't believe that at all. I believe that just a difference in role means difference in role, not at all. And how God views you that women are a hundred hundred percent, just the same as men when it comes to their standing before God in terms of value and their salvation and their, their, their heirs with Christ. It says co-heirs with Christ.
00:23:50
Danny Price
Um, just in case someone's feeling like we're saying that, that women are not the same as men because they're not as good as men.
00:23:50
shane
yeah Absolutely.
00:23:56
Danny Price
And i mean, that's a very pat patriarchal view that we don't, at least we don't hold. I know some people do hold that and I would, um, I would argue with them. So anyways, um this question that I have here, we talked about it the other day.
00:24:04
shane
Yep.
00:24:10
Danny Price
I brought it up a little bit just because I wanted to hear your thoughts on it. This is more of a, I think you could argue from biblical principles, but this is definitely like a modern culture question. What is a single, so how does this work in terms of submission with a single girl that is maybe
Singles and Independence
00:24:25
Danny Price
living outside the home? So maybe, you know, she moves, goes goes to college, lives outside the home.
00:24:29
Danny Price
Maybe she's twenties, thirties. Does she still submit to her, her to her dad? She doesn't submit submit to a husband because maybe she's single. Um, how does that work? How does that relationship work?
00:24:38
shane
Well,
00:24:38
Danny Price
Or what do you think? I guess, because I mean, little bit speculative. What do you think?
00:24:42
shane
yeah, um for context, i we ah we, our whole family sat around and talked about this for probably about 30 minutes on Sunday, um and ah which which was a lot of fun.
00:24:51
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:24:53
shane
But, um you know, first of all, um I think we get married too late. Let me just start with that.
00:25:05
shane
I think most people get married too late in life.
00:25:08
Danny Price
Explain that.
00:25:08
shane
Um, well, I think if you look throughout history, we're, we're getting married eight to 10 years later than people did all throughout history up until like 150 years ago, you know?
00:25:08
Danny Price
um I don't disagree. I just explain that. Why?
00:25:24
shane
Um, And we're putting, I mean, just biologically, it doesn't make sense. We are biologically meant to be, there again, sorry if your kids are listening.
00:25:35
shane
We are biologically meant to be having sex with what with the ups of sex by the time we are 17, 18, 19 years old. Like, we're at those prime years for that. And so we're telling these kids, the you know, these 19-year-olds or whatever, like, nope, nope, wait till you're 26 and and stay pure Don't sleep around.
00:25:58
shane
Don't, you know, so there's biological reasons, I think, for it. But um outside of the bute biology, um I just don't think it's necessarily the way we were built in many, many ways.
00:26:11
shane
So now I'm this.
00:26:11
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:26:13
shane
That's just my opinion. i might be completely wrong. You know, whatever.
00:26:16
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:26:16
shane
you but Feel free to throw it out. Just my thought. um
00:26:19
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:26:20
shane
But what that does is it does put a lot of young women in situations where they don't have a protector. um You know, and i think ultimately, though, the way it was created, was if in a perfect world, yeah, I think dad would be that protector until he handed her off to a husband.
00:26:43
Danny Price
Right.
00:26:43
shane
Um, you know, and that would be the perfect, you know, dad, daughter relationship, all that kind of stuff. Now, how does that work in our world and our culture now, man, that's tough. If a daughter's waiting until she's 23, 26, 30 to get married,
00:27:00
shane
thirty to get married um I really don't have a good answer for that. um But I do think we should probably, as Christian parents, if we are serious that we want our has our are sons and daughters to grow up to live for Christ, I think we need to be a little less concerned about what age we get married um and more concerned about how they're going about it And um so that, I know that doesn't really answer that, but I really think that's a key thing.
00:27:28
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:27:32
shane
And here's another thing. We're raising girls. We keep talking, like our society keeps telling us we need to raise our daughters to be strong and independent. I totally disagree with that. I think we need to raise them to be strong, but I didn't i didn't want to raise any of my girls to be independent.
00:27:45
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:27:48
shane
I wanted my, to raise, yeah, capable is very independent, is very different than independent.
00:27:49
Danny Price
Capable is different than independence. Yeah.
00:27:54
shane
I wanted my daughters to be raised up in such a way that they knew they wanted to be in a, in a relationship with someone. And they wanted to, that, to have that godly protector over her.
00:28:10
shane
Um, and but you know, you know, my daughters, they're not weak.
00:28:10
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:28:15
shane
Um, um
00:28:15
Danny Price
No.
00:28:16
shane
You know, they're, you know, they're strong young ladies. And so, so anyway, and don't think my views line up with way a lot of middle-class Christian people's views line, but yeah.
00:28:26
Danny Price
Yeah. No, I get that.
00:28:30
Danny Price
No, thats that's that's fair. I think it's hard too, because you know part of this question I think would be, which you kind of answered, there was more parts of this question that I didn't go into, but I think you you
Cultural Expectations and Marriage Timing
00:28:40
Danny Price
tackled it.
00:28:40
Danny Price
It's a very difficult question because of our culture and because of the extended period of adolescence that we have for both men and women, where we're, I think in previous cultures, all the way leading up to the past um almost hundred or so years, you kind of launched into adulthood earlier.
00:28:56
Danny Price
in your in your life. So you would make it through teenage years and kind of after the end of teenage years, you would kind of start to be your own person. You know, if you're a man, that means you either work for the family business and you, you know, or you launch out and do your do your own thing, but you're not hanging out in mom and dad's basement doing nothing, maybe living together. That's different, you know, but also working, but you're not really just like hanging around and I'm not knocking on college or anything, but you're you're you're not going to 10 plus years of schooling or whatever, and just not really launching yourself. Cause I think a lot, i think the average age to get married and have kids, I think marriage is what it's like 28 or almost 30.
00:29:37
Danny Price
And then kids is like 30 average.
00:29:37
shane
Yep. Yep.
00:29:40
Danny Price
So, I mean, you you, you start thinking about that. It's, so it's, it's like very different to how things were done, whether that's was done because of necessity and lifespans were shorter, all that.
00:29:52
Danny Price
Yeah, that's that's a different argument, I guess. But i would i would tend to agree with you with most of what you're saying is younger marriage is not bad.
00:29:56
shane
Yeah. You know, real quick. Yeah. So I actually, I don't know if I heard this from Driscoll or where I heard this, but I thought this was so interesting. that this was a sociologist um did a did a study.
00:30:13
shane
And if you want to be 97% sure to not ever live in poverty, there's four things you need to do.
00:30:25
shane
And you need to do them in this order.
00:30:25
Danny Price
Okay.
00:30:28
shane
Graduate from high school, get a full-time job directly out of school,
00:30:35
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:30:36
shane
work a full-time job, get married, and have children.
00:30:44
Danny Price
Interesting.
00:30:44
shane
A man who does those things in that order almost is guaranteed to never be in poverty.
00:30:54
Danny Price
Interesting.
00:30:55
shane
And... um
00:30:55
Danny Price
But that's really interesting.
00:30:57
shane
Yeah. but according At least according to this study. Right. But I, I think there's a lot of truth to that. We get a lot of, we have a lot of lazy 20 something, even 30 something young men because they were never taught, Hey, you need to go out and work full time. The best thing my dad ever did is, and he didn't do a lot.
00:31:18
shane
That was great. But, um, he, um,
00:31:23
shane
He basically the week before I graduated from high school, he said, hey, what's your plan when you graduate? And my plan was to like hang out until college and, you know, work part time for park and rec and all that.
00:31:31
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:31:35
shane
And he basically came to me and he said, if you don't have a full time job the day after you graduate, I've got a job for you.
00:31:36
Danny Price
yeah
00:31:42
shane
and And I went to work full time. And I just learned right away, you work full time. And then, you know, and then that gave me a mindset for life.
00:31:57
shane
Like I started having purpose. I started feeling purpose. And when I started feeling purpose, marriage seemed like the right thing to do, you know?
00:32:04
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:32:04
shane
And so, so anyway, I just thought it was an interesting thing um when you look at our culture and our society.
00:32:05
Danny Price
Interesting.
00:32:07
Danny Price
Yeah, no, that is. but Yeah, I like that. And to clarify, when I say getting married young, I'm just saying, you know, like, yeah, don't get married when you're 16. I'm not saying that. I think that's, I think that'd be inappropriate.
00:32:17
shane
Yeah.
00:32:19
Danny Price
um But, you know, if you're 19, 20, 21, don't, I think we shouldn't be so quick to judge people and and make fun of them and try to Talk them out of marriage at a younger age. Obviously, if they're there's some glaring issues, that's different.
00:32:33
Danny Price
But just for the sake of age, I wouldn't say that. A lot of people I've heard, actually, have friends that are getting married. One of them is 19 and one of them is 20. and They've had many different people try to tell them, you're such an idiot for getting married young.
00:32:48
Danny Price
Like, what what are you doing? You have so much more life to experience.
00:32:49
shane
Yep. yep
00:32:50
Danny Price
Why not go out and have fun and do all this other stuff? it's like, holy cow, like what? word I mean, granted, these aren't Christian perspectives a lot of the time, but still, why are we so quick to try to talk our young people out of getting married and not entering marriage with all this extra baggage that's not necessarily necessary?
00:33:06
Danny Price
not necessarily Why do I say things like that? Not necessarily necessary. Not necessary for, you know, you don't you don't have to go through all that to get married. ah Your life could be a lot simpler if you don't have all this baggage coming in.
00:33:19
Danny Price
Anyways.
00:33:19
shane
ye
00:33:21
Danny Price
Interesting stuff. um The last part of that question I had was, I thought this was backwards in scripture. It seems so strange to me. Why does it say a man should leave his father and mother and not say a woman should leave
Biblical Marriage Principles
00:33:32
Danny Price
her mother and father? Because I think traditionally you'd see that more often, like the like the woman leaving, and but then it says, no, men leave, like leave your family.
00:33:39
Danny Price
Why does it say that and not the other way around?
00:33:41
shane
um I tried to touch on this in a sermon, but you... um So at that time, man's number one priority was for his parents until he got married.
00:33:53
shane
um Up until that time, it was promote his father's father's business, work the ranch, whatever it took to promote his parents.
00:33:54
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:34:01
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:34:02
shane
But the moment he marries his wife, his number one responsibility is his wife. So that's that's kind of the idea there.
00:34:13
Danny Price
Yeah. Okay. It was odd to me, just the way it struck me. I was like, I usually think about like the man like the dad giving his daughter away, and then you know they leave and start their own family.
00:34:18
shane
yeah
00:34:23
Danny Price
Interesting. um We talked about this on Sunday too.
00:34:26
shane
but Real quick, real quick.
00:34:27
Danny Price
Oh, go ahead.
00:34:27
shane
I think that goes a little bit back more though, showing once again, the leader responsibility on the, on the husband that, that, Hey, you can't expect this woman to follow you when she doesn't believe she's your number one responsibility.
00:34:36
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:34:44
Danny Price
Yep. Yep.
00:34:45
shane
so
00:34:46
Danny Price
Yeah, if you're divided on that, you got into the whole issue of, you know, mother-in-laws or the boy-mom relationship where a guy really doesn't yeah a fly the nest, so to speak, and he's still hanging around.
00:34:58
shane
Yep.
00:34:59
Danny Price
And there's a lot of unhealthiness. There's unhealthiness everywhere, potentially, in families, but that's one area where i think it's touchy for... a husband that's really listening to his mom and going to his mom for everything.
00:35:10
Danny Price
And his mom consoles him and soothes him and tells him everything he needs to hear or wants to hear, I guess, where his wife is suffering because of that. So I know you got passionate about that during the sermon.
00:35:19
shane
Yep.
00:35:21
Danny Price
Not that you had to deal with that at all, but yeah.
00:35:21
shane
Well, and the other thing is, I'm not, you know, there's some really unhealthy, like you can go way unhealthy, like what you just described.
00:35:28
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:35:28
shane
But there's also a lot of men who just are afraid to tell their mom, hey, mom, I love you very much. You need to stop meddling in my marriage. You need to stop correcting my wife.
00:35:41
shane
You need to stop throwing out these little snide remarks about the way she does things, you know, that that kind of thing.
00:35:47
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah. No, absolutely. um so we've So we've focused on women's submission. I did want to talk about you the guy side of it ah and not sound like we're just this misogynistic, patriarchal podcast.
00:36:00
Danny Price
um If someone, this is your first episode listening, you picked a wild episode to tune in for the first time. um So question, I know, right.
00:36:07
shane
Especially the way it started.
00:36:10
Danny Price
um Question for you. How should a man protect his wife and guard her um spiritually, not just physically? Because cut to give a little background, you did talk about how a lot of men are like, I would die for my wife. And they have the carry handgun, they take jujitsu, and they're, you know, they're all about that physical protection side.
00:36:28
Danny Price
ah But then when it comes to spiritually protecting and guarding, you know their wife, they're a little lax.
00:36:33
shane
Yeah.
00:36:34
Danny Price
how How does a man do that?
00:36:36
shane
Yeah. I mean, I think it starts with prayer. um you know, we need to be praying for our wives. One thing I pray, i would say daily, I'm sure there's a few days I i miss, but, um, is for, I, I say, God, help me love Tanya the way you love her.
00:36:53
shane
Um, and you know, and then I try to think, think about that. Um, I think doing things to serve her, um, you know, I start little and it can be little things, you know, I,
00:37:05
shane
For years, you know, Tanya, Tanya takes water to bed every single night. She always has water with her when she goes to bed. For the first 10 years, I thought, how in the world can she go to bed every night and not remember to bring her water with her?
00:37:21
shane
Because she would always say, honey, will you bring water? Yeah.
00:37:25
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:37:25
shane
Right. And so I would always get her water. Well, kind of learned after that. It's, it's just, it's literally kind of almost a way for her to and go to bed knowing that I'm willing to serve her.
00:37:37
shane
And, um, you know, so, you know, so I, I would say literally for 35 years, 36 years, i basically bring Tanya water almost every night. Now that she has her wall or whatever you call the water bottle, you know, she's a little bit better with it because she carries around with her.
00:37:49
Danny Price
yeah
00:37:51
shane
But even then she'll leave it on the dresser. i get up out of bed. i always get it for
00:37:54
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:37:55
shane
I never just say, hey, get your water bottle.
00:37:55
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:37:57
shane
So I know that's dumb, but it's a little little things like that to serve her. I bring her coffee every morning. um You know, so I think serving our wives, um praying for them, um praying with them.
00:38:13
shane
You know, I think that's really important for a lot of wives ah that that her husband pray with her.
00:38:13
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:38:18
shane
um I mentioned that um journal that you guys use, the marriage journal.
00:38:23
Danny Price
yeah
00:38:24
shane
that we started using, i think, man, it's, it's been awesome for us. Um, cause it gives, it's a, an hour once a week, for her and I to sit down and to focus and ask where I can serve her, where I can support her, love her.
00:38:37
Danny Price
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:38:41
Danny Price
you
00:38:41
shane
Um, so that stuff like that is, is huge.
Husband's Spiritual Responsibilities
00:38:45
shane
Um, I think leading the charge and being involved in church, women are so much more involved in the church than, than men oftentimes.
00:38:53
shane
And ah oftentimes because men are working full time and a lot of the women aren't or whatever, but, but I think a lot of women feel like they're the ones that have to get the kids ready in the mornings. Um,
00:39:04
shane
They're the ones that have to lead that charge. I think being a man that gets up, read your Bible in the morning, praise, and then gets the kids ready for church.
00:39:14
Danny Price
yeah yeah
00:39:14
shane
It's a huge thing, you know, um, being in your being spiritually involved in your own walk where your wife sees that is another big thing, you know, let, make sure your wife knows where that you're reading scripture, that you're praying.
00:39:24
Danny Price
yeah
00:39:28
shane
Not, not because you sit there and go, Hey babe, i read blah, blah, blah today. But you know, where you, you talk about it or you, you get up in the morning and, read together or spend time reading your Bibles but beside each other, something.
00:39:41
shane
um But really taking that time to think about the spiritual relationship and caring for her and serving her.
00:39:42
Danny Price
yeah
00:39:50
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:39:52
Danny Price
That's good. um I think we, and we we did bring this up with the family and we were talking about it on Sunday. I think one thing that I can't remember brought it up, but I thought was interesting is being a little bit like in terms of protecting and, and leading ah talking about,
00:40:11
Danny Price
not just like you said, the physical stuff, but then also like what's going to be involved in our home? what What are we going to consume in terms of media? What are we going to consume in terms of doctrine or theologies or whatever?
00:40:28
Danny Price
Kind of being the gatekeeper a little bit with some of that stuff and standing in the in the gap.
00:40:30
shane
Yeah, no, that's true. That's a great point.
00:40:33
Danny Price
um It wasn't my idea. I can't remember who brought it up, but I liked it a lot because it was I think it's very easy for men, and we'll talk about this here in a second, we can even get into this, but just passivity is a very common thread for a lot of men that we struggle with.
00:40:47
Danny Price
And I think it's very easy to go, oh whatever, my wife, she she she did the research on whatever, I'll let her make decisions. Not that it's bad. And again, even with wives submitting, i think no one would ever argue or shouldn't argue that women don't have a role as leading in the home.
00:41:02
Danny Price
um even though Even them submitting to their husbands does not mean that they make choices and they lead. and they third I mean, yeah, I think the word that women...
00:41:06
shane
Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:41:10
Danny Price
um but women this goes back to like Genesis, but the the the Hebrew word is azar or Azar, but basically meaning general. Like this is not ah some weak little, oh, babe, you're just this little housewife that just stays home and cooks and cleans all day. and that's like, that's your role. Like, no, this is, this is strong.
00:41:26
Danny Price
This is anyways. But my point is, I think a lot of men pass passively go, I'll let my general take care of that. I'm not going to worry about that. and I'm not going to lead. And they let their wife make all the decisions, lead the charge to church. Like you said, do all that stuff where,
00:41:41
Danny Price
Not that that women can't make decisions about that, but men have kind of given up a lot of their role of gatekeeping what comes into the house. Like, hey, you know what? We're not going to watch this movie. um This movie has got some profanity in it that i don't feel comfortable showing to our kids. Whatever. That's an example.
00:41:56
Danny Price
But that more of that philosophy rather than just being like, whatever. It's just not worth the battle. It's not worth trying to argue with my wife about it, argue with my kids about it. And they did lot of men just get walked over ah and kind of give up their role.
00:42:09
Danny Price
So anyways.
00:42:10
shane
Yeah, no, that's a great that's a really good point.
00:42:10
Danny Price
so
00:42:13
Danny Price
Um, to get it, to get into that more, why do, why do we struggle so much with passivity? Um, with all these things that it says husbands to do, love your wives, give them, give yourself up for her, sanctify her, um, love your wife, like your own body, cherish her, nourish her. Why do we, why are we so passive? Why is it so hard for us just to get off our butts and just grab, grab a marriage by the horns, so to speak? Why, why why do we give up that role?
00:42:36
shane
Well, I think a lot of men... we We get into the mindset that our main role is providing financially. So we, you know, especially yeah when we're talking about men who are hard workers, you know, there's a lot of men who, I mean, they're really hard workers.
00:42:49
Danny Price
yeah
00:42:51
shane
They work their butts off. And honestly, they kind of come home tired and exhausted.
00:42:54
Danny Price
yeah
00:42:58
shane
they know They just don't have the mental energy, the physical energy, the emotional energy.
00:43:01
Danny Price
yeah
00:43:03
shane
um And they kind of see it as, hey, I do all this so that you can do this. And um I think we need to rethink that a little bit.
00:43:15
shane
I think one, we need to ask, do we really need to make as much money as we make? Because we get ourselves in a lot of financial trouble. I mean, if you just look at what we spend today in our culture and you compare that to what people used to spend, people, even that say they're not making it, we spend so much more money on extras than people used to do.
00:43:32
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:43:40
shane
um So maybe we could work less so we'd have the energy. That's a possibility. Just throwing that out there.
00:43:47
Danny Price
yeah
00:43:47
shane
But um if we if you do got to work those that many hours, I think we just have to be intentional about saying, you know, okay, well, I'm still going to budget two hours a week to, to at least look at this kind of stuff, you know, maybe do what I just talked about with the marriage journal, or you're having that kind of conversation one hour.
00:44:02
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:44:10
shane
And then there's another time where you're kind of just talking about, Hey, what, what are the kids watching? What's, what's going on? What are the video games they're playing? but bla blah And, and taking some time to look at them, you know, I mean, it's a lot of work, but I mean, what's more important, I guess, is it comes down to it What's, what's the most important thing is our, the,
00:44:26
Danny Price
yeah
00:44:29
shane
The what this ah faith and ah the salvation of our family is that what's important. And not just the salvation, but I don't want my kids just to grow up saying, okay, well, I was...
Financial and Family Role Dynamics
00:44:45
shane
this saved un unused Christian my whole life. You know, i I, want my kids to do great things for God.
00:44:52
Danny Price
Hmm. Yeah.
00:44:55
shane
And, um, so, you know, kind of having a, like, how are we training them up? You know, taking responsibility for it, but, and it's just hard. It just, it takes a lot of energy. It takes a lot of work.
00:45:06
shane
And, um, i think that's the main reason.
00:45:07
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:45:09
shane
Um, Now, are there some people who are just lazy? Yep. That's that's another excuse. But but the outside of laziness, I think it's a matter of just intentionally deciding to do hard things.
00:45:15
Danny Price
Right.
00:45:22
Danny Price
Yeah, no. And it is hard. ah That's crucial. Yeah, but if you're a man that just sees yourself as a meal ticket for your family, I mean, what a... I mean, it's an admirable role to a degree, but you're selling yourself short as your role was intended to be.
00:45:40
shane
Yeah, absolutely.
00:45:43
Danny Price
And I think it's so hard because I think that that is a very important part of being a father and a husband is providing and...
00:45:43
shane
Yeah. you Yeah, providing is definitely very important.
00:45:52
Danny Price
You can kind of get lost you can get lost in it a little bit sometimes, I guess.
00:45:55
shane
Yeah. Yeah. as If you're husband listening to this, you have so much more value. And I would think even your wife would admit that you have so much more value that you bring to the table than just the money you make for the family.
00:46:09
Danny Price
Hmm. Yeah, no, that's, that's very accurate. And like you said, i I struggle with this, but some of the ways that I've worked on, you know, this type of thing is again, asking my wife questions and being like you said, intentionality, it's such an overused word, but I think what Shane's trying to say there and correct me if I'm wrong, but.
00:46:31
Danny Price
you don't have to be that husband that just is like that. He plays guitar and has you know really long hair and it's just like stares into his wife's eyes. It's like, tell me about yourself. And like, Oh man, babe, that's so hard.
00:46:42
Danny Price
Like you don't have, that's not necessarily what, it what that's what we're saying. We're saying, Hey, you your intentionality could be as you're running out the door with your kids to church and you're trying to like juggle all this and there's you know and juice and bottles and Cheerios everywhere, you you say, hey, honey, like what's God been doing in your heart recently? Like some but stuff like that is a lot more realistic than you trying to set up these candlelit sessions with your wife that lasts for three hours where you're staring deeply into her. I mean, do that if you can do it. Great, whatever. Maybe she loves that thing. But I think...
00:47:16
Danny Price
A lot of guys, because they can't do that, are like, well, just if I'm not going to do it like something crazy like that with roses everywhere and petals, I'm just not going to worry about pursuing my wife in that way or guarding her.
00:47:25
shane
Yeah, that is true. A lot of men are waiting for the big events, um you know, like trying to do these big things for the wives. And really what the wife wants is just 15 minutes a day, you know, and then maybe an hour or two a week where you just, you know, are kind of, and, and it, like said, it doesn't even have to be a big romantic gesture.
00:47:34
Danny Price
Seriously, yeah.
00:47:44
shane
It take it more often than not, they want just some realistic support, you know,
00:47:53
Danny Price
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I I'm guilty of that. I, a lot of times I'll be like, well, if I can't do the big thing, I'm not going it at all. And then it's same thing with working out.
00:48:01
shane
Yeah.
00:48:02
Danny Price
It's the same thing with so many things in life. It's like, man, if you, you were consistent with a little, be a lot better for you than if you're just doing it in short spurts randomly when you feel like it. So anyways, um,
00:48:15
Danny Price
I wanted to go back really quick. um My word, a is as our Azar, just to, I think I said woman. It's actually the, I looked it up. It's actually the word for helper, which is kind of when, you know, God makes Eve for Adam and says it's his helper helped me.
00:48:28
Danny Price
Some translations say, just wanted to point that out. I'm not an idiot. If you're listening, you're like, that's not what that means. um Well, I am an idiot, but just for different reasons.
00:48:36
shane
I going to say, not for that reason, at least.
00:48:37
Danny Price
For different reasons. um Really quick, wanted to touch on this. Is a man, ah husband, you know, whatever for his family, is he the conduit that God like, does salvation come to his family through the man? Is the man, because I think that's a patriarchal view of some men of like, or prophet, priest, and king.
00:48:54
Danny Price
The man is like the go-between between God and his family. Describe that relationship. Is that actually how it works or what is what role does a man have?
00:49:02
shane
No. And, you know, I mean, as you know, our friends in the Mormon faith here would would say, yeah you know, there's the priesthood um of the home that the man has.
00:49:09
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:49:12
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
Spiritual Accountability in Families
00:49:14
shane
But no, the Bible says that we're all we we're all priests. We it's the um the priesthood of the believers.
00:49:23
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:49:23
shane
And we all have a personal conduit with God, every one of us. You know, I mean, there's people that think I have some sort of special relationship with God that they can't have.
00:49:35
shane
And it's not true. i mean, we all just have the same possibility of relationship with God. We all can enter into the throne room, right?
00:49:43
Danny Price
yeah
00:49:44
shane
um So, so no, he's not a conduit, but here's what I would say. I'm when I, when Tanya appears before God, I don't believe I'm going to be responsible for her salvation. Right.
00:49:58
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:49:58
shane
Her salvation is completely based is she justified through the blood of Jesus?
00:49:58
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:50:05
shane
Did she did she put herself under Christ, accept him, and is ah her sins covered by his blood?
00:50:06
Danny Price
yeah
00:50:13
shane
That's what it comes down to. Now, where I feel like I have to answer as a husband is, did I support that as much as possible?
00:50:27
shane
Now, you know, I, she can't blame me for her faith or lack of it. She can't blame me for, for anything that she does, but i do think God's going to, I, I think, you know, just like as a pastor, i think I'm going to have to answer for how I led this church.
00:50:34
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:50:45
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:50:49
shane
I think as husbands, we're going to have to answer for how we lead our families.
00:50:53
Danny Price
Yeah. No, think that's a good a distinction that it's not, you're not responsible, but you are going to be held into account of how you performed your role and what your life looked like.
00:51:04
shane
Yeah.
00:51:04
Danny Price
without, with with the delineation of you're not the one that brings salvation to your family. um But I mean, there are all there there are those statistics that say like, you know, when a father leads his family to church, um but the rest of the family tends to follow as opposed to when just the wife is going or just the kids.
00:51:21
Danny Price
Like fathers matter. So don't use that as an excuse. Well, I'm not responsible for my kids or my wife's salvation. Don't use that as an excuse not to be a leader. You're not ultimately responsible, no, but you are still called to be obedient to your role.
00:51:34
Danny Price
I
00:51:35
shane
Yeah. Yep. ye
00:51:37
Danny Price
um had a question, the last question. um Given all that we're saying about all this stuff, men's and women's roles, submission, loving, you know all that stuff, what should a single person be looking for? what What is the message for you from you to single people out there looking for spouses?
00:51:53
Danny Price
What should they be looking for? What should they be aware of or afraid of if they see this in a potential future spouse? Where does that all fit in the mix?
Choosing a Spouse: Faith and Compatibility
00:52:02
shane
Well, first I would say do not evangelitate. um You know, um ah don't date for evangelism.
00:52:06
Danny Price
Explain that.
00:52:10
shane
um
00:52:11
Danny Price
don't flirt Don't flirt to convert.
00:52:12
shane
Yeah, I like that better.
00:52:14
Danny Price
right
00:52:15
shane
and Don't flirt to convert.
00:52:16
Danny Price
That's an old one that I, yeah.
00:52:16
shane
um You know, um Does it, does sometimes it happen? Yep. But man, you are you're playing roulette, you know, with your life, like your whole life, you know?
00:52:28
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:52:28
shane
So, so really make sure, because the problem is now you do get attached to someone. You were hoping it would go in a direction. You were hoping they would give their life to the Lord.
00:52:40
shane
And then also not just give their life to Lord, but but really start to grow in here in Christ and that. But if it doesn't, you're emotionally attached. are you Are you now going to make the decision to obey God and not and not marry this person?
00:52:57
shane
Or are you going to give in?
00:52:57
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:53:00
shane
i mean, you gave in the date, so you going to give in to marry? you know So you're putting yourself in a really bad place to do that.
00:53:05
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:53:08
shane
Second,
00:53:08
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:53:10
shane
um I would say this. I, and I would say Tonya would say the same thing. Man, by the grace of God are we where we're at.
00:53:21
shane
Because neither one of us probably really took seriously enough how important this stuff was when we got married.
00:53:34
shane
We, you know, we we probably were not really looking at, is this person on the same spiritual path that I'm on? um And, you know, like I I think it's totally by the grace of God that we're where where we're at.
00:53:49
shane
But have the conversations that, you know, I mean, men don't just assume you're marrying just because a woman goes to church even. you know, especially if she's older.
00:54:01
shane
i mean, she's been living on her own. She's used to doing things her way, blah, blah.
00:54:05
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:54:05
shane
Don't just assume she but even believes in biblical submission. And women, don't just assume even just because he goes to church that he's a godly man that's going to take responsibility, that he's going to be a protector, a provider, um someone who really takes his role and his faith seriously.
00:54:26
shane
You know, um he might just go to church, go to a young adult group and then go home and play video games 25 hours a week.
00:54:27
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:54:31
shane
You know, I mean, that,
00:54:33
Danny Price
Hmm.
00:54:34
shane
that doesn't mean he's going to be the man of God that you deserve in your life. So, um, just take it really, really serious.
00:54:40
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:54:43
shane
Um, because man, I, I watch a lot of marriages struggle because they don't, or because they didn't.
00:54:48
Danny Price
Yeah.
00:54:51
Danny Price
Yeah. No, that's well said. um the To quote Matt Chandler, um he did this series on men not that long ago this year. If you were interested, you could look it up. It's great on just men's role.
00:55:02
Danny Price
But I think it was like maybe five five sermons long that he did. He actually extended the series. But he talked about this. I thought it was really interesting. i thought it was a great um perspective of how it's really hard. And he's talking to women specifically in this, because you know young young girls, single girls. so And he's like, I know it's hard when you see all your friends getting married and there's not someone that that's out there for you.
00:55:26
Danny Price
And you try to force it because you really want to be get married and everyone seems like they're doing that in that phase life. And he's like, there is a there's a sadness to maybe living with a bunch of single girls in a you know, in a house and wanting to be married and you're not married yet, you're still waiting for that guy to come along.
00:55:40
Danny Price
He's like, but there is a deeper sadness that you will never understand until you're there where you're stuck in your mid thirties with a guy that you're like chained to.
00:55:43
shane
Yeah. oh
00:55:47
Danny Price
And you're like, oh my gosh, what have I done? And he's whatever he's, you know, yeah i'm I'm not going go down that whole rabbit trail of, you know, how bad it can get, but there's a, there's a deeper sadness that you might be a little sad. I'm not married yet. It's, it's a, it's all right to wait for the right person.
00:56:03
Danny Price
and I know we talked to earlier about getting married early and all that stuff. That's great. That's ideal. But Don't settle, don't force yourself into a relationship just because you're like, well, all my friends are doing it. The same thing with guys.
00:56:13
shane
Yep.
00:56:13
Danny Price
Just be, oh, well, it's just this is this is just the next phase.
00:56:14
shane
That's good point.
00:56:16
Danny Price
It's like, oh my gosh, there's a sadness that you cannot comprehend when you're stuck in a relationship with someone who's not a believer, who wants not the things that you want that is abusive or whatever.
00:56:26
Danny Price
It's don't don't rush, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And that's what his point was, which I thought was really um insightful. So yeah.
00:56:34
shane
Yeah, no. And real quick, I do. I want to make sure I said what you just said, because we were, I was pushing pretty hard marrying young. I mean, if you are with that person, don't put off your marriage.
00:56:44
Danny Price
Ideally. It's ideal, but it's not. Yeah.
00:56:46
shane
Yeah, because definitely don't settle. You know, I mean, um we know a few very lovely single young women and young and great single young men.
00:56:58
shane
Don't don't settle, you know, but uh, really make sure you, you really think, and when I say don't settle, don't settle in the faith thing. I'm not talking about don't settle in, you know, maybe they, they don't look exactly what you want them to look or yeah, he doesn't make, he doesn't make 150,000 a year.
00:57:12
Danny Price
They're not all going to be six, five, blue eyes, and looking finance. yeah
00:57:17
shane
I'm not talking about those things. I'm talking about, you know, where they're at with their walk.
00:57:23
Danny Price
Yeah, no, I think that would be that i'd be awesome if you could find all perfect tens and everything.
00:57:26
shane
Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:28
Danny Price
But the reality is, is we're not all, you know, I'm one of those. We're not all perfect tens in all those other areas, but you chasing out you find someone that's chasing after the Lord as hard as you are, and that's their first priority. And a lot of those other things fall in place.
00:57:40
Danny Price
um So anyways... I say that as someone who's been married for a while, and but I got married at 24 and which by Utah standards is old.
00:57:48
shane
Yeah, you were like a...
00:57:49
Danny Price
Um, but i know there's a lot, I know there's people older, older than me that are not married and, it's man, I, I want the best for you and I don't want you to settle and be just, just for the sake of getting married.
00:58:00
Danny Price
Um, and we as humans tend to set that up, whatever the next step is, because kids are the same way. It's like, well, once I have kids, then I'll be fulfilled. I think we, we want to put fulfillment into something external. Um, that's not God.
00:58:11
Danny Price
And I guess it should be something external, but we make it something else.
00:58:11
shane
Yeah.
00:58:13
Danny Price
That's not God. And we try to go, well, once we have, once I have kids or once I graduate college or once I get married, it's, it's really hard when that next step is right in front of you. And a lot of your friends are taking it. It's just, Man, it can be it can be it can be such a... Marriage can be such an amazing thing, but also such a terrible thing.
00:58:30
Danny Price
I say that, that kind of sounds wrong coming out my mouth, but you get what
Marriage Centered Around God
00:58:33
Danny Price
I'm saying. It can be such a terrible thing and such a vessel for just hurt and pain, um not done right, not done with the Lord at the middle of it, so...
00:58:42
shane
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
00:58:44
Danny Price
Anyways, that's all the questions I have. Sorry, this has been, I knew this was gonna be a long, I was honestly gonna introduce at the beginning. This is gonna be a long episode. There's just so much to cover with this. is there anything else you really wanna just touch on lightly before we we end?
00:58:58
shane
Yeah, no, I'm just going back to how my view changed or at least I preached it differently. I want to just remind people that If anything, i hope that encourages you, because you and I have even, with the family, we are talking about this, that, you know, I talked about my views and my, the way I approach scripture has, i think it's grown over the last five years.
00:59:31
Danny Price
Mm-hmm.
00:59:33
shane
And, You know, I still used to read my Bible, still used to do those things. But the more you do and the more you let the Bible inform you, i think the more and and not inform you. what I think the more you do that, the more you will find it.
00:59:54
shane
I think when I first started reading the Bible, I i tried to have it inform the way I... the way I lived within culture.
01:00:07
shane
And, and now the more I've done it, the more I read and the more I get dig in, i think the more I go, no, the Bible actually tells me that culture really shouldn't matter.
01:00:22
shane
i should live as the Bible says. and then I live that way dealing with culture.
Engaging with Scripture and Culture
01:00:29
Danny Price
Interesting.
01:00:30
shane
And and i don't know if that makes sense, but I say all that just to say that hopefully if for any if anything else, it just helps people go, hey, you know what? We grow as we dig into the word and we and we're constantly looking at it and we're constantly willing to.
01:00:45
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:00:45
shane
We don't have to, just because you believe something for a while doesn't mean you have to hold to it exactly that way. Always be open to God, moving your moving your beliefs in a deeper way, I guess.
01:00:57
Danny Price
Yeah. More in line with scripture, more in line with him.
Closing Remarks
01:00:59
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:00:59
shane
Yeah.
01:00:59
Danny Price
No, I, I would agree. That was a great, great way to end that. Um, so yeah, thanks for listening guys. If you made it all the way through, we're at an hour. So this is our longest episode yet. Um, and This is not... and don't think next episode will be this long. This is a really deep topic to get into.
01:01:15
Danny Price
um I'll try to put...
01:01:16
shane
Quit apologizing. I'm sorry. It's an hour long.
01:01:17
Danny Price
no I know.
01:01:18
shane
No big deal.
01:01:19
Danny Price
I know. I just i feel for you guys. I'm going to put...
01:01:21
shane
Danny's self-conscious.
01:01:21
Danny Price
Yeah.
01:01:22
shane
I can tell right now.
01:01:24
Danny Price
yeah I'm going to put in our description some of the ah different authors and podcasts and all that stuff we were talking about. So if you're curious, I'm going to like dive in. I'm also going to put the verses we talked about so you guys can...
01:01:36
Danny Price
review that if you're curious or want to jump back into where we were talking about some of these concepts. um Yeah. um Thanks, Ken, for the for the question. That was really awesome. It's a great question. If, you know, next week, if anyone else has more questions, please send them Shane, send them to me We'd love to just explore some of those things in the podcast.
01:01:54
Danny Price
Yeah. Appreciate you guys. We'll ill catch you guys next week.
01:01:56
shane
All right.
01:01:57
Danny Price
and Thanks. Bye.
01:01:59
shane
Bye.