Transcript
Danny Price: Hey, everyone. Welcome to episode 23 of the Table Talk Discussions podcast. I'm here with Shane. We were recording a little bit late. Just schedules and stuff was a little bit hard, but then also I figured it was probably good to give Shane a little bit of a time to recover with his voice. If you guys were there on Sunday, this, by the way, was really cool. Three services, first Sunday with three services, really, really cool.
Danny Price: Shane, really quick before I keep going, how many people did we have?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Did you did you ever get a count?
shane: Yeah. It was actually a higher. So normally Thanksgiving is a low attendance, right? Um, and so it's kind of weird.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I'm just trying to figure out like, was it because we all another option or what? But, um, I would say our attendance was probably one of the five, six highest weeks of the year.
Danny Price: Really? Cool.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Love that.
shane: Yeah. So it was crazy.
Danny Price: but If you guys were there,
shane: And I, I, Yeah, and all of them were pretty, I would say, i mean, you saw it.
Danny Price: No, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.
shane: i mean, I would say they were pretty evenly, not like super packed, but mid evenly foolish.
Danny Price: Yeah, like three quarters full for every service. So it didn't feel there wasn't one empty service, which I thought was surprising.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: I was for sure that either the 11 o'clock or the 1130 or the 830 would be lower.
shane: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Danny Price: So that was cool.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: um But the reason I was bringing that up is because the first two sermons Shane was able to teach the first two services. And then the last one, his voice was like gone, like gone, gone, just from recovering from being sick. It was sad because you went up and introduced like why you had to do that we had to do the video. It was just a video of like the first service that you just, you know, we just played for everyone. So it wasn't like it's a separate sermon, but you could barely get through that. It was was bad.
shane: Yeah, it was bad.
Danny Price: So if it sounds better now.
shane: I mean, you were with me all week. Yeah, you were with me all weekend. And like, I just pushed it too hard. And then coming off of being sick. And then Saturday, I just was like, okay.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, it's a bummer. So anyways, but yeah, so a real hot button, maybe I guess a hot button sermon. Um, I, I think there was some things that you said that probably most people, I would say 80% people would agree with, but then there's about that 10% that would strongly disagree and 10% that would disagree, but don't really care that much. Um,
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So it was was it was interesting.
shane: Yeah, that's probably pretty accurate.
Danny Price: um So yeah, talking about parenting, we're still in Ephesians. And then remind me, we're in Ephesians for, that was that was our last week of Ephesians for a while. Is that right? Or are we doing Ephesians again?
shane: Yeah, so we're going to take a break for Christmas because technically we should have been done right now. um So we're to take a break for Christmas, do some Christmas stuff, and then I'll finish Ephesians with um spiritual warfare on um ah in January 4th or whatever whatever that Sunday is, January 4th or 5th.
Danny Price: All right. And then you're not, are you teaching through like the second part right after about the children's appearance? It talks about bond servants. Are you touching on that at all?
shane: You know, I'm not. um if we might If we might want to do an episode of this on it, um you know, it was it's just one more relationship of submission and order and and mutual love.
shane: But, ah you know, i he it's it's kind of a tough one, you know, because you... It doesn't really apply in today's culture other than, I guess, you know, you basically in the workplace, um you know, and, you know, just that idea of, you know, and then to get in, you know, we could take 20 minutes and get into the history of slavery and what it looked like then compared to more modern slavery.
Danny Price: No.
Danny Price: Yeah, no.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And, you know, it is it's interesting, but I don't know if it's very applicable.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm. No, that's fine. um If you you you guys are listening and you're wanting another resource for that, I just listened to this podcast about it. It's from Lake lake Point? Lake Point?
Danny Price: Lake View? Lake Point Church. But it's the Josh Howerton. If you look this up in your podcast, Live Free by Josh Howerton, it'll come up. But I think it was November 17th, he just talked about slavery in the Bible, which he talks about a lot.
shane: Oh, did he?
Danny Price: Yeah, he talks about a lot of other... um passages. It's not just the Ephesians passage, but for those of you who are Christian and you're like, man, the Bible does talk about slavery. What do we think about that? They do a great job talking about what is in context and also just christian Christianity throughout, you know, culture has really pushed against slavery in this, in the sense that we think of like 1700s, 1800s, like, you know, modern American slavery, where it's just really, really disgusting that's not at all what this is talking about in this specific verse. And they really, they do a good job. just It's him and like three other people. And there's like two ladies that are on it because they, one of their pastors couldn't be on it. And they do a great job breaking that down really biblically. So if you're interested, that was, that's the Live Free podcast with Josh Howerton.
Danny Price: I think it's, is it Lake Point? Lake Point Church?
shane: yeah yeah make point yeah Yeah, I'll have to check that out.
Danny Price: but Yeah, Lake Point Church. They're a larger church, but they have.
shane: I really i really like that podcast.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, I do too. They do a lot of those.
shane: past Pastor Josh does a really good job.
Danny Price: yeah and He's well-spoken, but it doesn't come off like... It's not just like a TED Talk. or like a It's very biblical, and they they do a good job breaking it down. so Anyways, if you guys are interested, because Shane's not going to cover that. um Cool. Well, we'll jump in. Parenting.
Danny Price: Last week, we kind of did a little preface with just having some special guests. By the way, thanks, Josh and Nicole, for being on, and Hannah for talking through all that stuff with us.
shane: Yeah, by the way, I really like enjoyed that. I thought everyone did a good job. i like I liked hearing the different thoughts and views.
Danny Price: Yeah, that was our first time doing guests. So that was, that was cool. um First question that I had written down, and then we have a question by a guest or or a listener, excuse me. First question, what do you tell parents whose kids have walked away from the faith?
Danny Price: Is there anything that they can do? And I'm guessing this is, this is more of like an adult. The way I was thinking about this was more like adult children, you know, like, you know, later teens and into adulthood, not, I'm assuming your kids aren't walking away from the faith at like six, for example.
shane: Yeah. now Yeah. Yeah. um yeah I mean, obviously when they're in the home, i mean, i I'm a big proponent of like kids don't get a choice whether or not they're going to church.
shane: Like, you know, no, obviously you can't make them have a faith, a personal faith, but I'm, I'm big on like, I mean, you make them go to school, you make them,
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: you know, eat meals, you make them do all these other things. Why not also do all the things you think are going to teach them to be healthy while they're in the home faith wise. So, um but obviously you can't command that they have ah an actual faith. So, so now once they're adults and they're walking away, um yeah, unfortunately I deal with this a lot. I mean, I get parents all the time that are coming to me in this situation and, know,
shane: You know, I mean, the first thing I do is i encourage them to pray, pray, pray, you know, um you know, pray as much as you can for them. um Never give up on that.
shane: um I always there's a song i always go back to. It's an old cheesy ah Christian song that's called Never for Nothing. um And it's just about that whole idea that it's never for nothing.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm. Hmm.
shane: You never know what God's going to do. And so. so you know i mean I have people in my life that I prayed for years before I saw them come to what I would call a saving walking with Jesus faith. And um So that's number one.
shane: And then number two, you know, I think one really check your life to look at where you are modeling Christ. Are you, ah you modeling that Christ actually makes a difference in your life?
shane: You know, or are you living a very hypocritical life that makes them go, well why would I even want to be a Christian? um when And then check back on when you were raising them.
shane: You know, are the things in your life that you need to repent of, even when you were raising them, where you maybe were not walking as faithfully as you wish you were.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Maybe you didn't have the character that you should have had Maybe you had a bad witness.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: And um and i don't know if there's anything wrong with going to them and having a conversation about it and talking it through and asking their forgiveness and um and dealing with that. And then four, influence as much you can without being a knack.
shane: You know, I mean, you don't want to you don't want to push them away with your nagging.
Danny Price: that's That's tough. That's tough.
shane: um You want to trust the Holy Spirit, but you know, wherever and whenever you can, you know, show that influence.
Danny Price: Yeah. I would add to, i think a lot of This is, again, my perspective being 30 years old, but I know a lot of my friends who have kind of walked away from the faith.
Danny Price: And it's really common in the 20s and 30s, between the 20s and into your 30s, I think.
shane: Yep.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Because, again, I think this is mainly stereotypically, you know, you go to college, you get out in the world, you hear a lot of different opinions. And if you've been growing up sheltered, you might not have heard a lot of those opinions. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, my gosh, what is truth? What is this?
Danny Price: Some of that, again, if you didn't cover when you were a parent, you know That's something that is a little bit of a bummer if you're not teaching your kids that there's an objective truth and that you can trust the Bible. But I think a lot of the questions that kids come with, their parents often don't have answers or their answer is, well, just you believe the Bible and just because God said so.
Danny Price: And you don't actually, hey, you know what? That's a great question. Let's dig into that. let's Let's figure that out.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Or if your kids are like, well, I don't get why loving God would let bad things happen or why would a loving God not allow homosexuality?
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: or you know, XYZ hot topic. And this is a great chance for you to engage with them and not shrivel back and go, well, that's just the way it is. And, you know, and if you don't even know, this is a great opportunity for you to to dig in. But I know a lot of people, like a lot, a lot, like maybe half of my friends that I grew that I grew up with or knew, like kind of like not really close, but like knew somewhat that just completely walked away from faith for those reasons. And it wasn't just because, know,
Danny Price: you know some random incident happened with them. It was like a slow burn of not getting questions answered, and then culture is going one way, and they don't want to go the way of the of the Bible. so Yeah.
shane: Yeah. Yeah. And that that kind of leads into your next question about discipling your kids, you know? you know, cause it really comes down to, you know, taking that serious and not, not just brushing off,
shane: the things that your kids are dealing with, because I mean, I, you know, I mean, it I would say the culture I grew up in was different than my parents and that there was questioning, but I would say that's advanced even more, you know?
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And so you, you kind of have to take as a parent, you can't just have the whole like, well, you go to church and you, you read your Bible and you pray and you believe, you know, you, you gotta to have some answers.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's that's good. um Yeah, so discipling, the next question I had was, can you just give ah give some advice um for different age groups for parents, because you've seen it all and you're you're still seeing it all. And now being as a grandparent, you're like re revisiting a lot of these lessons and principles.
Danny Price: What are, I'm going break it up into three categories. What are some some advice that you would give to a parent that's parenting between zero and four? So like the the young toddler baby phase, between four and 12, like the kid phase, the the child phase, and then between you know, 13 into adulthood.
Danny Price: um Maybe just really quick, like one specific area that you would focus in and each of those, and then maybe some principles that transcend everything. Like this is going to be, you know, throughout your whole parenting journey, something you focus on.
shane: Yeah. um You know, I think the key is consistency. um I don't think it has to be some big grandiose gestures at any of these stages.
shane: um But I will say zero to four for me, you know, I guess with all these, I can think of things I did right and then things I wish I did. You know, zero to four, the things I did, I feel like we did right.
shane: When I say I, Tanya and I, um, was reading Bible stories, teaching them to pray, teaching them to have thankful hearts, you know, that we thank God for things. we don't just...
shane: um just let life happen and not take time to thank God. um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So those are some things we did. i would say we did well. What I wish we would have done a little bit more is um probably like do a little bit more memorization.
shane: um Kids actually memorize pretty well at that age. You know, once they're like two and a half, you know.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: Well, and actually, we know that they can still memorize little things, even much younger than that.
Danny Price: Yeah, right. Yeah.
shane: But um like I wish we would have done a little more memory say memorization and maybe memorization through song. um You know, Bible songs, quick, simple Bible verses.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: But... um You know, also remembering that kind of what I talked about is it it, it's the heart is the goal. It's not, it's not that we just are looking for right behaviors.
shane: So, you know, even when they do things wrong, you know, like, like kind of like with Sam's age, right?
Danny Price: yeah
shane: Three years old. Hey, Sam, you know, mom and dad told you to do this, right? What does God tell you? What's your, number what's the main thing God wants you to do?
shane: He wants you to obey mommy and daddy. You know, like literally kind of like, so we're training.
Danny Price: yeah.
shane: What is it that God wants from me? You know, what, what does God expect from me in, ah in my relationship with him?
Danny Price: yeah.
shane: So, you know, that's what I wish we would have known a little bit better.
Danny Price: yeah.
Danny Price: OK. OK.
shane: And then, uh, four through 12, um, you know, i think at that age, you'll start working in like family devotions. Um, We were very, very hit miss with this, mostly miss.
shane: um This is an area I was pretty weak at.
Danny Price: OK.
shane: um But still praying together as a family, still, um you know, looking for faith activities. Well, that's the other thing. At that age, we could start, we started working in faith activities, um looking for ways to serve together.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: looking for ways to be involved with things together. um Honestly, at that age, also just making church life a big part of their life. And that church life is interesting and it's fun. And, um and, you know, you don't have to always be serious at church. um I think that's,
shane: you know, important, you know, that that they're having, the kids are having a good time with it. um So that, those are things I would add. But definitely I would say, another thing I would have added and is, is teaching them a little bit of doctrine.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: I, I, I was not that focused on doctrine um with my kids. um And thankfully, I think, all three of my adult kids have kind of gotten interested in doctrine.
shane: um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: But those questions you were talking about that your friends had in college age, teaching them doctrine at four to 12 will give them a foundation to build on for those questions.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's true. Yep.
shane: so So that's where I wish we have done better.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: And then 13 to adult, I definitely would still say the church life. um I think it may you make it a huge priority. um I would make sure 13 to adult, my kids are actually serving. They're not just like they have a place they're serving. and They understand that they are a part of the body of Christ.
Danny Price: who
shane: um teaching I would make sure I'm teaching them to give. Um, and, uh, I would probably start that younger, but at 13 to six, uh, adult, you know, really kind of helping them put a plan together for that.
shane: ah Um, and then i I'm a huge believer, as you know, in taking them on as many missions experiences as you can, getting them more of a
Danny Price: Hmm. Yeah.
shane: God's eye view of the world instead of their little, little microscopic, uh, entitled self-absorbed world.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: Um, and then, um, and then a big thing for me on 13 to adult was trying to find some one-on-one time with them to talk about faith.
shane: you know, faith in relationship to their friends, to their boyfriends and girlfriends, to their, um to school, to how they deal with their teachers, um to the big questions they have about morality in life and those those kinds of things.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So, so I did things like take them out to lunch, tried to take, take them, check them out of school and take them out to lunch like every other week or every three weeks and just have, you know, deep conversations or, You know, when they went to bed, go sit on the end of their bed for 20 minutes, 30 minutes and and talk about stuff, that kind of thing.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So I tried to really kind of work it into more just personal time.
Danny Price: No, that's that's great. I do want to point this out, and I don't think, i don't know if you do this intentionally, but to those people listening, notice that everything he's saying is not like quick tips and tricks, hacks on parenting um for just behavior modification or like in this era, you're going to have trouble trouble with tantrums. He's focusing on faith.
Danny Price: And through that, it's kind of, that's what's forming the kids. So none of what he's saying is, just about like, i hate to see I hate to say secular parenting, but it's all it all comes down to you're a Christian first.
Danny Price: Like our family is, you know, faith is everything, you know, the Bible, God, like belief our beliefs are everything and everything else trickles down from that and stems from that. He doesn't, I didn't even ask you to do that.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: You just did that naturally, but that was really cool.
shane: Yeah, no. Well, and I and i think that's so I think that is a really big, important thing, and especially going back to that. Why some people walk away from their faith. I think a lot of families raise their kids compartmentalizing faith.
Danny Price: Yes.
shane: And um I really do. i think it just, you know, I mean, you're around our family. I mean. We just, you know, faith is just, and I would say from what I know of your family, same music exact thing.
shane: Faith is just, that's just who we are.
Danny Price: It's kind of who you are.
shane: So when you talk about something, faith is always just kind of a part of what you're talking about.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: It's not like another piece.
Danny Price: Yep. Yep. Exactly. Yeah, it's not like We're, for example, we're a Lions, like Detroit Lions fan, or we're ah whatever, 49ers fan. And it's like, OK, that's who are i um I guess I should maybe rephrase.
Danny Price: Because some people, that is who they are in every capacity. But for most people, like as a sports team you cheer for, it's like a once a week thing that you just, hey, yeah, i'm I'm a fan of this. I'm a fan of that. And you're not, it's not like you're every single aspect of your life touches the Detroit Lions, at the 49ers, or whatever it is.
Danny Price: Whereas this should be.
shane: Yeah, absolutely.
Danny Price: But I guess I should say that differently, because some people, it might be.
shane: ah
Danny Price: Those of you listening, and I don't know if you're, you should not make your entire personality about a sports team. um This next question came from a listener and I actually didn't get their name. I don't think Shane did either. But the question is, what do you do when it comes to obeying parents if your faith is different? And I think the example that was used was, let's say you're growing up in an LDS household and your parents are telling you one thing, but your but your faith is telling you something else.
Danny Price: What do you do?
shane: you know That's a tough one, and I love the heart in which it comes from because the heart is you know a desire to make sure you're honoring God in that relationship. and i would I would definitely say that you know where Paul says children, obey your parents in the Lord. um and What I would say to that is, if your parents are not doing some asking you to do something that is opposite of what God would do, you should do it.
shane: Um, you know, and, uh,
shane: You know, the good thing about LDS faith is at least a lot of what they're asking to do, you know, they're they can't force your heart as to why you're doing it, you know, but, you know, LDS families serve, so serve the Lord, right?
Danny Price: Sure.
shane: um They, um you know, read the scriptures, we'll read the scriptures, just read the, only the Bible part, you know, um that kind of stuff.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
shane: So when you can, you know, honor what they're asking to do, but in a way that it wouldn't go against what God is asking you to do. Now, I would also guess, say, i I would guess most LDS parents, say they said, no, we want to read all the scriptures.
shane: I don't think it's wrong to read all this all of the LDS scriptures. But what I would make sure I was doing is, okay, I will obey my mom and dad and read all of it, but I'm also going double up on my Bible reading.
shane: I'm gonna make sure I know the Bible. Now, I'll do this because my parents asked me to do it.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
shane: um you know, but but if it comes down to, you know, i them asking you to do something that would go against what God says, then I don't think we we are called to do that. um And then, you know, we got to be really careful with that. um I think you still need to show honor to your mom and dad in how you do it, but you don't need to obey when they ask you to do something that would be not according to what God would want.
shane: Um, you know, but, um you know, like when it comes to, Hey, they want you to go to Mormon church.
Danny Price: yeah. yeah.
shane: I don't, I think you probably should do it. You know, I mean, that, that would be my view. I mean, now if they're giving you the option, then I would opt out, you know, but i wouldn't, I wouldn't, um, cause a problem in the family. over it, but I would look, I would try to, especially if you're like 13, 14, 15 years old, I would try to start having conversations with my mom and dad and say, hey, look, can you respect that I do have a faith?
shane: And is there any way we could do it where I go with you, but I still also participate in my church or whatever this church, you know, whatever that is.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So, know, that's, that's how I would probably handle that. Now, once you are out of the home, then no, I don't think you should honor that. I think you should say, hey look, i I am out of the home.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I am taking care of myself. I love you. ah respect you. I will never say anything negative against you, but I'm going to practice my faith.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So I don't know that any thoughts on that?
Danny Price: That's a good answer.
shane: What do got? You got get anything to add to that?
Danny Price: I know. I, I agree. i think there's a difference between, trying to figure out how to say this best. There's a difference between disobedience and dishonoring. I think there's times where this applies to anybody. If your parents ask you to go rob a bank as a Christian, you can't, you can't go, well, my parents said it. So I obey my parents. And then you go rob the bank. I mean, you'd say there there has to be some type of you follow the Bible um first, but yeah,
Danny Price: Nine times out of ten, a lot of times when kids want to disobey their parents, they're not doing it for these biblical reasons. They're doing it because they just want to be rebellious. But there is a way to...
shane: Yep. yep
Danny Price: to contradict your parents and still show honor. And I think it's all with how you do it. So if you're a 16 year old, I don't, I don't think there any are any, or there are any, excuse me, 16 year olds listening to this that are in the LDS faith. Maybe you are, and you're trying to leave and your parents want you to go to church.
Danny Price: I would, I would honestly say like what Shane said about talking to them is in a respectful and honorable um way is going to go so far and just say, Hey mom, Hey dad, listen, and I know this might break your heart to hear, but I'm not,
Danny Price: I'm not agreeing with the LDS faith. I see a lot of holes in it. I see some issues and I want to be a Christian. And you walking them through that, again, there's ways where you can kind of meet them in the middle. Like, Hey, ah yeah, I'll go to church. I'll do all these, these external things, but you have to realize like my heart belongs to Jesus. And you have to show them that, um, you, the way that you handle those conversations is going to be a really good witness to your parents, but it's also going to really dramatically affect the way that they see you,
Danny Price: going forward. If you come to them and go, screw you, you know whatever, you you swear at them and you're like, i just I hate you, whatever, whatever.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: I don't want to be part of this family. I don't want to be part of this faith. And then you try to go do your own thing. That's going send totally different signals. And their view of Christianity is going to be rebellious kids that hate their parents.
Danny Price: So it's really important how you show...
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: You can disobey... I got to be careful. I'm not telling kids to disobey your parents, but if your parents are asking you to do something that's completely anti-biblical, it's okay to disobey them while still showing honor and in a certain capacity.
Danny Price: um And I would say the same thing for wives. if It says wives submit to your husbands, but if your husband tells you, hey, I want you to go murder murder this person, you can say, no, no, no, babe.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: i The Bible says do not murder. you know And so um there's ways that there's there's ways that you have to look at things with a little bit of a lens.
shane: No, babe.
Danny Price: And I would be careful.
shane: The Bible says do not murder.
Danny Price: good That's exactly how that conversation would go, by the way. Very, very calm. Anyways, ah so yeah, thanks for ah so asking that question. um Great question. That's a tough question.
shane: Yeah. But hey, real quick, I just want to clarify.
Danny Price: um Yeah, go ahead.
shane: ah Once you are out of the home, i want to make sure i get that clear.
Danny Price: Go ahead.
shane: I don't think you're doing anything wrong by not doing what your parents ask you to do, especially when it comes to what how you want to practice faith. Now,
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Still, what you just said about honor and respect, I think that still applies, doing it in that way. But but don't i just want to make sure everyone gets it. I'm not saying you should keep going to the the ward if you feel convicted to go to a Christian church.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, totally.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah, parents are going to have opinions about things, and there's ways to disagree with while showing honor. And that goes with anything. That goes with parenting advice. That goes with political affiliations. That goes with, I mean, financial decisions. I mean, anything. Your parents going to tell you things that you might not agree with or you might not have to listen to, but you still show honor because it's your parents. So Anyways, all right. Can you speak to those who might be skeptical about discipline?
Danny Price: Explain how you might start the process of discipline if you've never really done it before in your family. Where do you start? And I guess just to set up this question, I'm assuming most people and at the church at Mountain View are some doing some form of discipline.
Danny Price: But let's say for the sake of argument that they're not How do you start the process while not coming off like a Nazi, just like coming in like, all right, everybody, we're going to, you know, everyone goes, you know, bread and water only. Everyone goes to bed at 6 p.m. and, you know, whatever. Like, I'm not saying that's what discipline is, but you get the idea.
Danny Price: um What do you do? Like, how do you start the process of introducing the idea of, hey, you know, there's authority in this house, especially if your kids are older than, you know, three.
shane: Yeah. Well, I think the first thing I would do is talk to some families who look like they're doing it well. um You know, and then once I've done that, um yeah, I mean, I think if the kids are older than three, i think you sit them down. And I think, ah you know, probably individually, know,
shane: um because, you know, kids in a group, you're making a big change like that. They just, they start to feed off of each other. um so probably individually, and you sit down and you, you say, hey, look, and for me, i would confess, I would say, hey, i feel like I've fallen short and I've i' failed you in this area because my job is to discipline you and to raise you up.
shane: And by not disciplining you, I'm um I'm selling you short because you're not you're not gaining the tools you need to grow into a mature adult.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: And I'm also not leading the way God calls me to lead in the home. So I would have that conversation. Before I had that conversation, I would make sure my spouse and I were completely aligned on what that discipline is going to look like.
shane: You know, what what is it we're going to start implementing? And then also know that whatever we're implementing, we we're probably goingnna sit down in two weeks and reevaluate.
shane: You know, like we need to, you know, it's always up for reevaluation, right?
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You don't raise kids and the whole time go, this is it. We've established it and we're never discussing it again. So, you know, and if it's new to you, you're probably gonna have to play with it. um You know, and then what you're gonna learn is all kids are different and they all need disciplining a little bit differently.
shane: You know, doesn't all work the same for, you know, what spanking might work for one kid really well and not work for another hardly at all, um you know, and timeout might work great for a different kid. And, you know, so it's just it all kind of depends. So you got to figure that out.
Danny Price: That's good. That's good. um Yeah, I don't have much to say about that. I think I would agree with everything you're saying. And then, like you said, be willing to discuss and work through things. And then also, I would say, like with anything, I think I said this last podcast too, but start slow and and be be as consistent as you, as you can going forward from that point.
Danny Price: It's like with dieting, with exercise, with a lot of things, we're really into this like all in mentality. That's not, um, it's not sustainable.
Danny Price: And so if you're like, we're we're going to do this and you know take phones and do all this stuff.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And you know you guys heard Josh and Nicole, hopefully last week, how they go through their kids' phones, like all the messages and everything. That and might not be a spot where you can start. you don't You might not be able to do that. And so don't make promises you you don't keep.
Danny Price: um Start off slower and introduce a couple things and see how that, like Shane says, see how that goes. And then continue forward. And that's not my wisdom.
Danny Price: That's just wisdom I've heard from other people, by the way, because I'm not really quite there yet with with parenting. I'm still parenting young kids, but consistency is really important.
shane: Yep. Yep.
Danny Price: And I will say this just to, we'll come back to this later with consistency. Nothing is crueler and, evil in my opinion, evil to a kid than you not setting a clear expectations and boundaries and guidelines.
Danny Price: And like the the look on their face when you are mad at them and angry and disciplined for something that you've not clearly established is just, it's like, it's the worst.
Danny Price: Don't be that parent that does not have clear rules, does not have clear expectations, or one day it's like this, one day it's not like this. Like your your your kids are going to look at you like, wait, yesterday I did that exact same thing and that was fine.
Danny Price: And today I did it. And just because you're in a bad mood, now it's now it's a big deal. Don't be that parent. Have clear expectations and guidelines.
shane: Yeah, totally.
Danny Price: that's It's really cruel to your kids to not.
shane: Yep. I'm going to piggyback on that. Two things also. Don't ask your kids to do something that you're really telling them to do.
Danny Price: a
shane: Like, don't say... Hey, do you want to go get a jacket on if you're telling them to go get a jacket on? Because and if they don't want to go get a jacket on, now you have to have this whole thing, right?
shane: So don't say, hey, would you mind emptying the dishwasher if you're telling them to empty the dishwasher?
Danny Price: When you really, yeah.
shane: If you want them to dishwasher, say, hey, you know what I would like you to empty the dishwasher now.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Now, if they don't want to do it, then they express that. you you know you Then you say, well, you know thank you very much for your opinion. Now empty the dishwasher. right But but if um if you ask them, you're you're giving them permission to question you.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You know, so when you so i always tell, you know, a lot of parents like, man, think through what you're saying, because if you don't if it's a command, say it as a command. If it's a suggestion, then say it as a suggestion and leave it alone when they don't want to do it. Because now you're teaching them they can fight with you.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
shane: So that's one thing I would do.
Danny Price: That's a great that's a good point.
shane: And then the other thing I would add, well, you talked about the look on their face, like, you know, when, when, so when all this, when you're just up and down and anything. So the, the verse in Ephesians says, fathers don't exasperate your children.
shane: Well, you know, so I did a little study in this and I just didn't have time to get into it, but one of the most exasperating things to a child is not having clear boundaries.
Danny Price: m
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
shane: Children are not meant to set their own boundaries. Parents that sit around and say, well, would you like, you know, would you like to not have dessert tonight? And where would you like to eat this the green beans before you eat? You know, it's like, no, that's you're exasperating a child. They don't have the ability to make those choices.
shane: So you, you need to make them.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah, no, that's that's really accurate.
shane: So anyway, I didn't have time to get into that in the sermon, but.
Danny Price: no No, i I love that. I love that. It's it's actually terrible. like what To your first point, the amount of times, and I've had to learn just to like, don't say something that you don't intend to follow through with.
Danny Price: So like Sam will be running around and be like, hey, buddy, come here.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: And I say it in like a joking matter, and then he doesn't come here. And then it's like, and we're like... I guess it should be I should rephrase. I say it in a way where I'm not as serious as I should be. i'm I'm not joking. There's times where we're joking and we're like chasing each other.
Danny Price: And that's, this is totally different than that.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: But there's times where it's like, he's running around like, Hey buddy, come here. And he doesn't come here. And I'm like, great. I said it. Like, I honestly could have cared less if he came here and I just wanted to give him a hug or whatever, you know, give him a like like a noogie on his head just for fun.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: But now I'm like, great. I said it. Now I have to follow through. So it really helps you check your, your language. And it also gives you self-respect because I think in, ah this is a tangent, but in adult life, we,
Danny Price: kneecap everything we say, Hey, if it's not too much trouble, would you mind? Like every email that we send is like with, you know, ah you know, all these like smiley faces and exclamation points. Cause we don't want to just say what we mean and just mean what we say.
Danny Price: We want to, Hey, just, if it's not too much trouble, it's no big deal.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And we, we bring that into our parenting and i had to learn this and,
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: It is so confusing for your kid. If you're like, hey, if it's not the biggest of deal, would you please do this? and then But you really mean, I need you to do this. Then it's you're you're teaching your kids to walk over you.
Danny Price: And you're also teaching your kids when people say things, it doesn't really mean what they say. It's kind of like a subversive meetings.
shane: Yeah.
shane: Yep. You know, it's actually just late. it's It's a form of laziness on our part when we are not willing to do the work of healthy discipline in the home. Because we don't have your cause what you just said, it makes you check the way you say things.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: You don't have to do that when you just are like, well, I'm just going to do it how I want to do it. I'm going to be inconsistent and I'm going to ask them to do things 14 times. And all of a sudden I'm going to start and some way like In some ways, that's just you being lazy and not wanting to work on yourself.
shane: You know, because when you're going to discipline in a healthy way, you have to work on yourself to look at your communication.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: So anyway.
Danny Price: Yeah. And I would say, again, I'm sorry to, this is just like bringing up all these like thoughts that I have. If you're one of those gentle parents, and you're like into gentle parenting,
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Just take that aside for a second. if you're I don't want to there to be too much like cognitive dissonance when I say gentle parenting because that carries a whole lot of baggage. But let's just say you're a gentler parent. You're someone who's just, I don't know if I want to spank just yet. I don't know how I feel about some of this stuff.
Danny Price: All these things are still core concepts to parenting regardless of whether you spank. the way you talk to your kids, all these things.
shane: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Danny Price: So don't hear us and go, there's two ways. There's a gentle, nice way. And then there's the evil spanking way. And I'm not, I don't agree with that, but you get the idea. I don't know if you're listening at home you're thinking about that.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: This, this is really, but regardless of whether you spank or not, or whether you're struggling with spanking, there's ways to communicate to your kids and there's the heart behind what you're doing that are really important, regardless of whether you choose that or not.
Danny Price: So if you're like, Hey, I want to be gentle with my kids. Clarity is kindness. And I don't know if you've ever heard that before, but that's like a really common phrase in like business world, but clarity is kindness.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: If you're not clear with your kids, if you're unclear with your kids, it's not kind. Just because you you want to label yourself as a really nice, you know, whatever parent. If you're not telling your kids exactly what you mean and meaning what you say,
Danny Price: it's unkind to them. So just that's my little soapbox. I'll get off of that for now. um next Next question. How do you keep Jesus in the gospel as part of your family life? And then I just in quotes, put the part of that verse in Deuteronomy, part of the Shema where it says, as you walk by the way, when you lie down, when you rise up, how do you keep, how do you keep Jesus at apart as your chaotic as part of your chaotic life? Because our lives are so chaotic. It's crazy.
Danny Price: And it's very easy just to let the Bible Jesus go to the wayside. How do you keep that as a center part of your parenting journey?
shane: Yeah, i think a lot goes back to kind of what I said in like question number two about discipling them. But um I really do think lot of it comes with making sure faith is not a compartment of your life.
shane: hum You know, ah Like for me, all the kids grew up knowing, you know, my Bible sits by my chair. i i do quiet time.
shane: They see me read the Bible. They see me, you know, journal sometimes. In the mornings, you know, they they know that that's part of my daily life. um But then, like said, finding ways to bring God into everyday conversation, you know, and, and, and especially in ways that isn't cheesy, you know?
shane: Um, but, you know, just kind of, so like, you know, we, um, you've been at the table when we do best worst and a lot of, i think a lot of families do that, you know?
Danny Price: High low, what people it?
shane: So yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
shane: High, low, best worst second thing.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: yeah. so You know, we use conversation like that. And I would, I'd like to say we are better at it, but we still do it, but we should be better of like, oh, that's, you know, okay. That was your high. That was your best. That's awesome.
shane: You know, and then from there at times, like, You know, man, isn't it awesome that God brought that that friend into your life? You know, it's so cool that you have that that friend that God gave you him or that's your worst.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: That that sucks, you know, but, um you know, we we probably should even be thankful that like that that situation could have gotten even much worse or, you know, I know you.
Danny Price: Oh, Shane, you muted yourself. Shane, can you hear me?
Danny Price: ah I don't know if you guys are listening, but He muted himself. You muted yourself.
shane: Oh man, have I been muted this whole time?
Danny Price: about
shane: Oh,
Danny Price: No, just for like the past 20 seconds. all our all our All our listeners are going laugh at that. um So you were talking about at the table and you got into like like if something was bad, like, hey, but we're still thankful.
shane: dang it.
Danny Price: And then it kind of cut off right there.
shane: Oh, you know what i did? I accidentally clicked my mouse.
Danny Price: Oh, nice. Classic.
shane: Shoot. um Anyway, so.
Danny Price: Well, it it was literally like 10 or 15 seconds. It wasn't bad.
shane: um But, yeah, just, you know, working all that kind of conversation in to work back to faith, you know, talking about faith. And I think, unfortunately, see, I grew up in a home where, you know, I would say we were my home was nominal Christianity.
shane: You know, um my grandparents raised me around the church.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Um, we prayed before dinner, but it was always very rote, you know? Um, and that was kind of it, you know? And so there was like, it was a compartment of my, of our, my life, but it never got brought into conversation when we were talking about life or dealing with life.
Danny Price: h
shane: And, and I really just think it's a matter of, Bring it into conversation when you're dealing with life. And honestly, you know this as much as I do. If you're not in God's word, it's pretty hard to bring God's word into life.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You know, if your if your only exposure to God's word is three year out of four weeks i ah at church on a Sunday, then you're probably not going to be familiar enough with it to actually bring it into life.
Danny Price: There's not much to talk about.
shane: In fact, if anything, what you're probably going to do is bring these Christianese proverbs in that oftentimes aren't even biblical, you know, um, and, uh, you know, like, uh, you know, where, where you're saying things like, well, you know, ga
Danny Price: m
shane: it God always just makes these, hit god God always lets these things happen for for a reason. And it's all going to, so it's all going work out all right. Well, no, it's not always gonna work it out all right. Sometimes the person who's sick is going to die.
shane: Sometimes the person who got hit by a car is going to die.
Danny Price: The
shane: You know, it's not, it's but we work in the,
Danny Price: one I hate the worst is it's the, what is it? It's the God doesn't give you more than you can handle. It's like, that is so not true.
shane: oh yeah, God won't give you more than you can handle.
Danny Price: That is so not true.
shane: Yeah, not true at all.
Danny Price: You're going to get so much in life that you can't handle it. That's why you need, anyways.
shane: yep The whole point is for you to not be able to handle it and admit it and turn it over to him.
Danny Price: that's
Danny Price: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
shane: So if we're not in God's word, we can't really bring God's word into life. We can only bring these little you know spiritual you know you the tidbits that half times are not even true.
Danny Price: No, yes, I definitely agree with that. That is a, it's really important. um One thing, this was in a sermon series that Matt Chandler did from the Village Church. And if you're a man, I would,
Danny Price: heavily recommend this to you. You can go look it. It was this year. I think it was sometime in June or July, but Matt Chandler, he's from just a pastor from the village church does a series on men. i think I brought it up in the past already, but one of the, one of the sermons he talks to, he talks about how he parents his kids.
shane: Yeah, yeah.
Danny Price: And he said the two things I'll get into the one later. It's about apologizing to your kids. We have another question about that. But the one thing that he said was he asked his kids, his kids are all grown up or like 17 plus at this point.
Danny Price: And he said, what were the most um influential things that I did as a parent? He just like sat down with them and asked them. The one they said was apologizing. And the second he they all said was, whenever you shared what what God was doing in your life and your faith walk, and you asked me about mine, I think a lot of times we're really really quick to all right, we're gonna do this Devo. We're gonna talk about this.
Danny Price: And you never actually show your kids what it looks like to have a healthy Christian life because you're never actually sharing what's going on in your heart. what are you What are you struggling with? What are you learning right now? What is God teaching you?
Danny Price: we're very, you know, hey, let's do this Devo and we'll maybe talk about it for a second, maybe not. And maybe it's not even like, like Christian was saying, the Christian Devo, and you're just talking about these principles that are,
Danny Price: kind of airy and not really like grounded in anything. And then you move on and you move, move on with your day, but your kids never actually understand what it looks like for an adult to be seeking the Lord and what they're, what, what your walk looks like with the Lord. If you're not letting your kids in on that, then I think you're missing a huge opportunity to disciple them and how it looks like to be a functioning Christian adult.
Danny Price: And again, if you're not, if you're not there or somewhat there, obviously all of us are still on a journey and we're not perfected, but yeah, If you're not at least doing some of those things, it's going to be really hard to talk to your kids about what God's doing in your life.
Danny Price: If God's really not doing a whole lot of your life, if that makes sense. So anyways, um, got to keep moving on for the sake of time.
shane: Yeah. Yep. Good work.
Danny Price: Oh, grief. Um, what would you tell a parent who feels like no matter what they've done to teach their kids, the Bible, doing all this stuff, their kids are still walking away from the Lord. Does that mean that the parents are a failure? Does that mean they are just terrible? What, what do they do and how should they feel about themselves?
shane: Now, I mean, I've seen some of the most faithful parents have kids who walk away from the Lord. And you at some level, we just have to trust God with our kids. um At some level, we have to trust that God's sovereign. And, you know, I would say we we always pray for him. We always support him.
shane: I would say we, um you know, seek the word on it, seek godly counsel. But at some point, you gotta you have to just trust that God's got him in his hands and what he's going to do with him is within his will. So, yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I mean, that's, yeah, it's not the most comforting thing to say, but um it's just, that's a hard reality of life.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: No, that is hard. Yeah. Giving comfort to a parent like that. I'm not in that position. You know, I'm, I got young kids still, but I can't imagine the hurt and the pain of like watching your kids do things. And you're at some point you have to let them do it. You can't shelter them from everything, but you watch them make decisions at hurt them. And that hurts you.
Danny Price: And I can't imagine the the pain of going through that with a kid. So I would also say like, just reach out to other parents and just get some, don't let, don't thought spiral, get some good advice and some good input, godly input into your life on that.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: If you're going through that right now, don't just silo yourself off and not seek, you know, wisdom from other people. And also comfort and assurance other people that you're not It's not your fault. Obviously there's things you do. And I think I mentioned this in the last podcast. We're all screwing our kids up.
Danny Price: Everything we do is screwing our kids up.
shane: ye
Danny Price: It's just the way that you're doing it.
shane: it
Danny Price: Are you screwing your kids up in a way where you've given them the source of truth in life or you screwing them up in a way where you're misleading them and sending them down a dark path?
shane: yes
Danny Price: So, um
shane: My line with all my kids is someday you can have your own kids and screw them up.
Danny Price: yeah. And I hope people aren't, parents aren't, listening to that thinking we're intentionally screwing your our kids up. That just means we're sinful beings.
shane: I think those people have already given up on this podcast, didn't they?
Danny Price: Yeah, probably. That's accurate. um I'm actually going to change the order. I want to talk about the apologizing because we just talked about it and while it's fresh. How do you apologize to your kids and why is that important to apologize to your kids?
shane: Man, i I think that's huge. um And for me, it just comes with, you know, um going and sitting down with them.
shane: And I feel like with all my kids, I needed to give them time. Like when I knew I screwed up. You know, give them a little time, you know, don't just expect them to be able to forgive you right away, whether it be, you know, 30 minutes or couple hours, depending on what's, you know, the offense. And, you know, and I've had multiple conversations with all my kids sitting down on the end of their bed or against a wall in the room and just going, hey, i I'm sorry, i messed up. I shouldn't have done that. You know, I lost my temper, raised my voice.
shane: Um, you know, I, uh, I wasn't, I really didn't think through this thing that I, you know, made you do, you know, whatever it is. And, uh, so, you know, um, I, I think just going in and saying, you're sorry, you know, and then another thing that all I noticed with all my kids, what they always wanted to do was say, it's okay.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: You know, they'd say, no, what it's okay, dad.
Danny Price: It's okay, Dad.
shane: And I, you know, so I got where I said, hey, you know, and I i really appreciate that you, you know, you wanting to forgive me, but I want, I want you to hear something.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: It's not okay. What I did was not okay. Now, if you want to forgive me, i would, I would love your forgiveness, but, but don't ever think when somebody does what I just did, that it's okay.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um and And I think that was important to teach them because one, I think the whole it's okay is a way of not really dealing with our real feelings and or the need to forgive.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah.
shane: um And then two, you know, when we verbalize it's okay, we start to believe it's okay. You know, and um I wanted them to hear from me, the one that,
shane: You know, if anyone could say, oh, they don't have to apologize in your life, really could be your parents, right? I mean, you know, parents could say justify, well, all their behaviors, right? So I wanted them to hear from me that I was going to set the standard for when someone treats you badly, when someone sins against you, the the pattern is they should seek forgiveness.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: So...
Danny Price: that's That's a great a great word. Yeah, because and I was taught this. I really appreciate this from my parents. When I would ask for forgiveness, i would ask a clear. I had to ask a clear, hey, will you forgive me? I couldn't just say, sorry.
Danny Price: And they had to say, yes, I forgive you. um That was a you know very common with sibling arguments and stuff when we were younger.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: but I really like that because if you just say, Hey, it's, it's fine. It's fine. It's okay. You're doing two things. First of all, you're not clearly in your heart verbalizing saying, you know what I do forgive them.
Danny Price: And I recognize what they said. And also for the person that's asking, that's kind of a little bit of a slap in the face. Like, Oh, what you're saying is not necessary.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: And I'm not saying everyone sees it that way. Like in a moment, you might just want them to say it's okay, but you're really not addressing the heart, the root condition. Um, when you're just saying it, it's fine. No big deal.
Danny Price: It is a big deal. It's okay to say it's a big deal. It's okay to say it that, that hurt. And you know what? I forgive you or you know what? I need a second. I'm going to, I'll come back to you. I'll let you know when I forgive you. I just need a second right now.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: That's, that's important. um So yeah, so parents take note. This is something I really need to work on and doing it. I think I mentioned the last podcast, doing it quickly. Not just, waiting until my feelings subside and everyone's forgot about it. like Do it as as soon as you can you know realistically.
Danny Price: Come to your kids and while it's fresh, and don't do it when they've already forgotten about it. Because then by that time, they're not going to care and it's not going to mean anything. That's something that I'm really working on in my life. um Let's see here. Last two questions are kind of on spanking, disciplining, um trigger warning for the for you guys. I'm just throwing that out. I'm just kidding. um When it comes to spanking, um so you talked about spanking for a while.
Danny Price: Actually, well, not not not a long time, but I think you brought it up you know really you know clearly. can you Can you outline what you would see as a biblical way to spank your kids in terms of almost like a linear fashion of like, they do something wrong. Well, first of all, the boundary has been set. They break that boundary. You address it and you say I'm going to spank. You either spank them then or you, you know, you say when you're going to spank them, you spank them and then you talk about it afterwards, whatever. What what does that look like?
Danny Price: ah Biblically, would you say?
shane: Yeah. um i I think up to about four years old, ah spanking is immediate and corrective.
shane: And what I mean by that is kids are, you can't, you know, like an 18 month old, you can't have them sit there for three minutes and then spank them. They just don't.
Danny Price: And think about it, yeah. Yeah.
shane: Yeah. They can't connect it. So it's immediate. And then it's corrective. So,
shane: By corrective, it doesn't even need to hurt. You know, when you spank an 18-month-old, they're used to your hands only being nurturing.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: So anything, anything that isn't nurturing that they just notice is a, like, yeah, abrupt, that's that's plenty.
Danny Price: Abrupt, yeah.
shane: There doesn't need to be in anything that hurts them. Um, and, um, you know, I look at it kind of like, you know, the, the rod, you and there again, time wise, I didn't have time to get into what the rod means and, you know, but, you know, ah a shepherd for a sheep, he would use the rod to correct their directions.
shane: You know, it didn't have to hurt, but it would definitely be a stiff kind of just moving them, you know, for the, for the animal.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Um,
Danny Price: For their safety or for whatever reason, yeah.
shane: um Yeah, so up to that age, that's what I would say.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: From about four years old on, you know, assuming that their cognitive abilities are, you know, within the what we consider normal range, whatever, all that.
shane: um
Danny Price: Sure.
shane: Then I would say what I always was instructed, and it worked for us, was to not spank right then,
shane: But to have them remove themselves of the room, have then you make sure you have time to calm down.
Danny Price: Nicholas Matsakis, yep.
shane: You know, because sometimes when kids get to that age, they can push you to anger.
Danny Price: Nicholas Matsakis, yeah.
shane: You know, I don't ever remember being angry with any of my kids. You know, probably even under six. You know, I remember being like exhausted, but not angry.
shane: So...
Danny Price: yeah
shane: so You know, now you can be pushed to anger. So, you know, make sure you are in the right headspace. Pray. send them to the room or wherever is a safe place, um you know, and then come in, have a conversation.
shane: And, you know, about not, doesn't have to be a long one, you know, just a very quick, do you understand what it is you did? If they don't explain it, do you understand? Is that a boundary we have already set?
shane: You know, like for us, the two big things were, there's actually only two things, disobedience and lying.
Danny Price: yeah. yeah.
shane: You know, if they disobeyed when I had told them to do something, there was a spanking. And if they lied about it for any other reason, there was two spankings.
shane: And if it was ha lie about something that wasn't even disobedient, but I just caught him and lie, it was a spanking. So outside of those two things,
Danny Price: yeah
shane: we We didn't spank. And I know, I'm sure there are people listening to the sermon thought I was just going around spanking my kids 19 times a day. But, you know, really, it was very, it was very very seldom.
Danny Price: Yeah, right.
shane: um Once, I would say, any of the kids, once they were five, it was very rare.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um David probably the most, and I would say, you know, maybe another 25, 30 times after he was five years old, because he knew the boundaries.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: he He knew what he shouldn't do.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: So he didn't push it. um But we would have a quick conversation, what it is, why they didn't do getting a spanking.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: it would be a, for me, it was, we used, we used a hot glue gun stick. Those glue guns, the little, when the glue is hard, they're like a little, like a 12 inch stick and it has a little bit of a flex in it.
Danny Price: Yeah, yeah,
shane: So I barely had to, you know, do much and I could get, no,
Danny Price: yeah. Yeah, you're not winding up and trying to beat your kid. Yeah, no.
shane: Nope. It was just a ah little whap and it would sting, know, and um that would be it. And then after that, i would give him a big hug.
shane: We would pray. i would, um you know, let him know that my as much as I hate doing that, my job is to teach him to be a godly man.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: And part of being a godly man is learning to obey. And that that was it, you know.
Danny Price: yeah yep. yeah.
shane: And then same with my daughters. Now, we learned with Rachel that spanking just didn't work. You know, i like with her, i would, I had, I got like, okay, I can't spank this kid anymore. Like I am going to be spanking her to a point where it feels wrong.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: um So we learned with her. Taking everything off of her bed and having her sit on her bed and not be able to get off her bed for 20 minutes to 30 minutes was, it just was devastating her.
shane: She hated it. So, you know, that was a better discipline with her.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: um And then with Hannah, I think by the time Hannah was four, I maybe spanked her once. She just was an easy kid when it came to that, you know?
Danny Price: She had a guilty conscience and yeah.
shane: So, yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: No, it's, that's it.
shane: And then with Belle and Angie, it's been a little bit different because they were foster children. So we actually couldn't spank them for a while.
Danny Price: Yeah. Right. Right.
shane: And then at that point, I felt it just felt wrong to change that on them. um And and also there there were attachment issues.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: So we I just felt like so we we had other things we did with them.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, let's that's good. Yeah, and I would say, like to add to that with the foster kids, and there's certain kids, you know, if your if your kid is wince is like wincing when you're around, i mean, something's wrong.
Danny Price: This is not, Shane's not saying just, yeah, just go around whacking kids and whack here, whack there, just, you know, smack them.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Cross the face, all this stuff.
shane: Yeah, I mean, you... i mean you
Danny Price: There's, there's a abuse that, that, that sneaks into this stuff really easily. Unfortunately, and people, some of the worst abuse abuse can be veiled under a Christian principle of like, no, what God says is spank.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: So I'm going beat you with my belt to the point where you're black and blue.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: And God told me to just like the most evil kind of people.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: So don't, don't, if if you're listening, don't mishear that. So anyways.
shane: Yeah, and I think anyone, i mean, you know, i mean, you've heard me say many times, you know, judge a pastor by their home. And um i don't think I could, I would challenge the person to come to my house and hang out with my family for a weekend and see if any of my kids are afraid of me.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, that's a good point. One thing that Hannah brought to my attention, because Hannah has done a lot of research, on my wife, on spanking, because there's a lot of stuff out there on the internet of like, well, you don't need to spank, even if as a Christian, you don't need to.
Danny Price: And you can disagree on some of that stuff. Discipline is clear in most, I think you have to be, if you're Christian, you have to at least admit discipline and correction is really important, regardless of where you went on spanking.
shane: Yeah, yeah.
Danny Price: But one thing that she found that was helpful was like what you said, with using something that's not your hand, we ah You don't want your kid to associate your hand with ill intent or harm. You want your kid to associate your hand with comfort and with love.
Danny Price: So using a stick or something else, again, appropriate amount of force, appropriate. You're not trying to inflict matt you know pain and just like crush them and... There's just a lot of nuance to this. And so I bring it up these words that i'm hoping people are getting what I'm saying. You're doing this to correct them and say, Hey, stop that. That's not okay. Don't do that. You're not trying to abuse them.
Danny Price: ah So just, just to be like as clear as possible on that. And if you're using your hand just to smack them, it's very easy to like, let that go into abuse and let that go into inflicting pain for the wrong reason and not correction. So again, you're not speaking out of anger. you're Cooling down, the Bible says, be angry and do not sin. So do not do not attempt to try that. And ah know a lot of i know a lot of parents that have talked to me about this, of like, yeah, I have to go into the other room and just calm down. I'm not spanking my kid. Whatever it takes, I'm not spanking my kid out of anger.
Danny Price: And I'm not going to wail on them.
shane: Oh, yeah. No, absolutely.
Danny Price: It's incredibly, incredibly important.
shane: Yeah. Separate yourself. Yeah. You know, and honestly, for me, when I'm trying not, like, I remember when I was young, when the kids were younger and I was try would be like, I don't want to spank them. I would try not to spank them. That's when I would actually get angry.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Because I just would be trying all these things.
Danny Price: you
shane: im but walk so So sometimes for me, I found myself yelling and being what I would consider more abusive. when I was trying not to discipline them versus just disciplining them.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah. No, it's... You have such a big role as a parent and discipline as a part of parenting. Do not... screw that up. And if you have, apologize to your kids and take corrective steps. If you're a parent listening to this and you know that you're abusive in the way that you discipline, whether it's spanking or just yelling at them into oblivion, um man, I don't, there's things that the Bible says about those who mistreat children.
Danny Price: I think it says in the Bible, it's better that a millstone were hung around your neck and you were thrown into the sea. Then you prevent one of your one of the little ones coming to me. So just to throw that out there, just be, just be careful. Um, it's something that I think we all mess up in and we all have sin because we're, you know, sinful beings, but it's really important. That being said, last question, just to touch on this, how do you do this? How do you have good discipline, right? Discipline without creating a secret, a secrecy kind of complex with their kids where they're trying, they they won't talk to you about their life. They won't tell you anything because they're, they're afraid of you that you're going to hurt them or you're going to
Danny Price: discipline them, you know, like, Hey dad, I messed up. I did this. So how how do you, how do you create a culture where there is discipline and it's clear and it's, it's good and it's righteous. It's right.
Danny Price: But you're not giving them this complex of like, I will not, you know, I break a glass. I break the glass with my baseball, the classic example. And I won't tell anyone because I'm so terrified of the retribution.
Danny Price: How do you, how do you balance?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: How do you balance that?
shane: Well, one, I think once again, the retribution shouldn't be to a point where they're that terrified.
Danny Price: Right. Hmm. Hmm.
shane: You know, I don't think I ever spanked any of my kids where they were really that terrified, you know, um especially once they had that level of a conscience.
shane: Yeah. And then, too, I wish I could give you like so I've been told I'm really good at this um and I really don't know why oh how. um Like I wish I like understood what I do better.
shane: but you know, I would say all of my kids would would say, yeah they feel like they can come to me. They can talk to me about whatever. um
Danny Price: Yep. Mm-hmm.
shane: They can share their deepest whatever with me. They don't feel judged. They feel loved. They feel encouraged. um And yet they also knew that I'm probably a lot harder than a lot of parents when it comes to discipline. So um i wish I had some like, oh, here's how you do that. I guess I would say the number one way is by caring deeply about your kids in an unselfish way.
Danny Price: okay
shane: um I think one of the problems that parents get into as kids get older is parents want to have a close relationship with their kids, but they want to do it on their terms.
Danny Price: hmm
shane: They, you know, you got dads who like, don't want to have a close relationship with my kid, but he doesn't want to, he won't go fishing with me. Well, does he like fishing? yeah You know, like, like you gotta, you gotta connect where they
Danny Price: yeah
shane: where they want to connect, you know, um and you got to be willing to connect when it works for them. I found that a lot of my kids like to have really deep conversations after 1130 at night, you know, and for me, i you know, I'm tired, but that's when they want to sit and they'll talk for two hours and share their deepest thoughts.
shane: And so For me, that meant, well, I'm not getting as much sleep as I'd like tonight um because I wanted to have that kind of relationship with my kids. So, you know, I think a lot of it just comes down to your kids knowing that you authentically want to be a part of their world.
Danny Price: Yeah, that's really good.
shane: um You know, and unfortunately, I think a lot of parents want the kids to be a part of their world.
Danny Price: um
shane: And I don't know, i don't think they would say that. Like, I don't think if anyone would even recognize that. I just see it, like, I think anyone that recognizes it would, like, want to be willing to change it. I think just a lot of people don't recognize it, and I see it in a lot of families.
shane: um
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You know, so.
Danny Price: That's a, that's, that's a good point. And to be clear, I think what you're saying with that is not that everything revolves around the kid. You're just saying that their own person with their own personality identity. And if you're not, if you're treating them just like a homogenous blob and not like their own person, their own feelings and all their own life, you're doing them a disservice and you're not, cause you're not caring about that. You're just caring about them as like, Hey, you're just part of this family. This is what we do. so You know,
Danny Price: you know, so shut up and just listen, you know?
shane: Yeah. Yeah. No. And obviously it doesn't work. I'm not in any way saying that everything.
Danny Price: No. And I knew you were, I just wanted to make sure you, yeah, no one was thinking that.
shane: Yeah. But that is, yeah, I can hear how you might, people might get that. No, I, you gotta have, you know, they also have to know, Hey, you have to fit within these. Like, I think the thing is, as they get older, you know, like 12, 13, especially right in that age, you start getting like you, that you teach them about how,
shane: It's it's I'm here for you. But, you know, what part of that means I we need you to be here for us at times, you know, and but but you have to show that you're really there for them and not just taking them to all the like I probably give my kids less rides places than 90 percent of parents.
shane: You know, because there's times I'm like, no, not doing that.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: umm I'm going to stay home, you know. um So I'm not just saying like taking them and doing, doing, doing for them. But there's a difference in doing for your kids and just being authentically desiring to connect to them.
Danny Price: Yeah, no, that's that's really good. ah If I could share something that i I think is important with this is being slow. When your kid shares something with you that's in their heart, kids are smart and they they learn.
Danny Price: Be slow with your reaction.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And what I mean by that is If your kid comes to you and says, hey, you at five, hey, dad, I broke this lamp. If you freak out instantly and you're you have a split you know second reaction of just like, oh my God, i can't believe. And you just yell at them and lamb lamb blast them and just like, you know, get so angry.
Danny Price: What you're doing is you're training your kid to go, when I mess up, that's what happens. When your kids are older and your kid, I mean, let's just say, for example, gets pregnant or comes to you and says, hey, mom, I'm ah i'm at a party. i was at a party last night. I got drunk.
Danny Price: There's big things in their life that you want to know. your kid is not going to trust you with that because you have given them, you know, but throughout all their childhood, this example of when I screw up, when I mess up, mom and dad get mad at me. So I need to hide. So some kids have a more secretive personality, I think, and we're prone to hide things. But I think there is a little bit of nurture where if you,
Danny Price: yell and scream and get really upset and make everything a huge deal when they're young, they learn that and they're going and they're smart, even when they're young, even when they're, you know four or five, six, whatever. Um, don't let, don't let that,
Danny Price: screw up your relationship with them as they get older. This is like a very holistic thing.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: When I mean holistic, I mean, from the whole perspective, like it's a very, you have to look at child at their childhood and their adulthood. There's all these things that are connected. It's the butterfly effect. You know how you treated those 16 interactions when they were four or five do ah they're going to remember some of that stuff and it's going to carry into their, when they're 16. Um,
Danny Price: ah And so, again, this is you know just not my wisdom. This is other people's wisdom. But stuff that I've seen and that I experienced, not that my parents were like this, but my parents were the opposite of this, where they didn't freak out about some of those things, breaking the lamps and whatever. And because of that, I would trust them as I got older.
Danny Price: But I would say to just be slow. just you If you feel like you're going to freak out, just take a second and just go, okay, hold on. What's going on here? what Is this really worth this reaction? Don't let your first reaction be what comes out of your mouth with with a lot of that stuff. So anyways, cool. um Anything else you want to add from the sermon before we close up?
shane: Now, mainly just, man, if you're parent, gotta remember this. the The three most important things for raising healthy kids. are parents being there, doing things to show they love their kids, raising them in theyre like raising them in faith, like seeking to give them faith. If you're doing those three things,
shane: you you you got to give yourself a lot of grace on everything else because it's, it's tough and nobody knows exactly what they're doing. And right when you figure it out, you have a kid that's totally different than that.
Danny Price: Yep,
shane: So, um, you know, a lot of grace.
Danny Price: that's a good point of view. Yep, that's really good. um We linked a bunch of resources last podcast that you guys can take a look at that are just good resources. I know Shane mentioned Shepherding a Child's Heart by Ted Tripp.
Danny Price: Wait, is that Paul? Which one's the the older one that that wrote that?
shane: Head trip.
Danny Price: Ted Tripp and his son Paul, right? Paul Tripp? um i Am I messing that up?
shane: I don't remember.
Danny Price: i know he's written well he
shane: There's a few trips.
Danny Price: well I know he's written books on like marriage and stuff. I think it's his dad, I'm pretty sure. So anyways, well, yeah. um But yeah, apart from that, seek out godly parents if you want more advice or more parenting wisdom. I know Shane has probably has more books and more stuff he could throw your way if you're listening to this and have questions.
Danny Price: um appreciate you guys. Please don't forget to like this podcast, rate us. Um, I guess you like, you really don't like the podcast, um, rate us on Spotify or Apple podcasts. If you can, that'll help us out and then pass us on to your friends.
Danny Price: Um, and then, yeah, we, uh, a little late this week, we'll be back next week. Um, excited to get into December and get towards Christmas. Hope you guys are enjoying the podcast and we will see you guys next week. Bye-bye.
shane: See you.
