Transcript
Danny Price: everybody. This is Danny Price with Shane Finley. We're back with episode 27 of the Table Talk Discussions podcast. um Really cool. We're finishing up our Ephesians series, which was kind of disjointed, and I was just telling Shane a second ago. I felt bad that he had a kind of... It was kind of an off sermon because it's kind of in line with what Bruce was teaching the previous week, you know talking a little bit about prayer and spiritual warfare but at the same time uh you know little bit disjointed from the rest of everything else and then you know ephesians being finished mostly what was it like the beginning december shane we finished fusions mostly and then having to like yeah and we had to catch up so i thought he did a great job with the sermon it was you know about the armor of god spiritual warfare um shane was there anything and that didn't make it into the sermon that you wanted to touch on or anything interesting
shane: Yeah, the last week of, the yeah, last week of November.
shane: Um, no, it, uh, it is just a little weird because I, that just going through the spiritual warfare, i mean, the spiritual armor thing, um, I just feel like that if you've gone to church very often, you've you've probably heard that 10 times.
shane: So I always wonder, like, you know, can you, am I might saying anything that, you know, the average person there is interested in, you know, that kind of thing.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: But, um you know, so one of those sermons that, ah yeah, I don't know, just kind of anytime I'm doing a list like that, it feels weird to me.
Danny Price: No, yeah, I get it. It's a great, I mean, it's a great part of scripture too, but it is, it's hard. I think sometimes it's hard to find applications to your life unless you're really digging into it. So, um, just kicking off with first question.
Danny Price: So you, you started talking about, you know, spiritual warfare and you mentioned, and i thought it was interesting. You mentioned the satanic panic, um, which was kind of happening, you know, in the mid to late nineties,
shane: Yeah.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: um You want to break that down a little bit more about what that was and what was your experience with that personally?
shane: Well, I mean, i remember um like when I was a teenager, like even in the mid 80s, You know, you could come home almost any other, like every other week and watch one of those talk shows, you know, Donahue or Geraldo or what or Oprah or whatever, totally based on Satanism and the occult.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And they would have these, you know, preachers on talking about Satanism. They'd have Satanists on. They'd have all this stuff, um you know. Yeah. And a lot of things got blamed on Satanism that then you kind of go to find out that it wasn't really the case.
shane: There was, you know, I mentioned the preschool, but there was a, there was one situation where some teens got blamed for murdering a kid that they later found out, you know, had nothing to do with it.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
shane: There were, you know, so there were things that, um everybody just jumped on the bandwagon a little bit. um So that was always just, it was just kind of a weird thing, you know? And then I was like, I was way into rock music, you know? And, um and they just, they were always bagging on everyone in rock music and that they were all Satanists and all that. And, you know, when you're a kid and you,
shane: no adult is going to talk about a rock band and know more about the band than you. And they would they would say things that I'm like, that's not true at all. I know the real story. I know what's real.
shane: And so so, like, you know, and I, and in my mind was like, there's plenty of bad things about these guys.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Why don't we just focus on that? Let's not make stuff up, you know? um So anyway, it was just,
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're having sex and drugs and all this other stuff, but, but no, it's the Satanism.
shane: Yeah, I mean, they're all drug addicts. They're all, they're all sleeping around, them you know, but yeah, just because they're 20, like big surprise, 21 year old guys that are into rock music like skulls, you know, I mean, like, you know, but you know, like if they, they called every one of those album covers satanic, I'm like, shoot every day by that standard, every Harley Davidson shirt is satanic.
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: Yep. Yep.
shane: So anyway.
Danny Price: Yeah, there's a lot of imagery there. I listened. Did you ever listen to that podcast by Christianity Today um about the satanic panic? Did you listen to that?
shane: No, I didn't.
Danny Price: So it's the same people that did that podcast about Mark Driscoll, which Christianity Today, if you guys don't know, they're a magazine, they're a public publication.
shane: About Mark Driscoll. Yeah.
Danny Price: network, I guess you would say. And there's a guy in particular that does podcasts for them. I'm not a huge fan. His name is Mike Cosper. I'm not a huge fan of him. I think sometimes he's drawing conclusions that I don't think are necessarily accurate, but he did a whole series on the satanic panic. I listened to that a while back and his whole conclusion that he you know drew was, we were turning a blind eye during that time to all these other things going on. A lot of actual like really crazy sexual abuse that was done by church leaders and such.
Danny Price: And in an attempt to find like a reason for it a lot of people just turn to well it must be must have been satanism not really realizing that like there was a lot of abuse going on just for abuse's sake um and a lot of these go ahead yeah exactly it was a distraction yeah um
shane: Yeah, like it just became an attraction in some ways. Yeah. was just saying it kind of became an attraction. Yeah.
Danny Price: But it was really interesting. um like all Like you were saying, all those weird, there was like those teenage boys, there was that preschool, there was all these weird things that happened. And a lot of people, um there was one guy in particular that he was mentioning that was kind of more in like the California area that swore up and down that he used to be like the Satanist and had all these stories of like crazy, just like horrendous stuff that would like make your skin skin crawl.
shane: Oh, I think you're talking about Mike Giacchinelli. No, not Mike Giacchinelli.
Danny Price: Yeah, yeah. And then, no, it's it's along those lines.
shane: Mike, Mike, can I remember?
Danny Price: It's a weird name.
shane: What's that?
Danny Price: It's a weird name. I can't think of it.
shane: Yeah, Mike Warnke.
Danny Price: um
shane: Mike Warnke, I think.
Danny Price: Yes, Warnke, Warnke.
shane: Yeah, yeah, I totally He used to speak at all the conferences.
Danny Price: And so...
Danny Price: Yep. he like But apparently it came out that he was just milking this whole thing for money and that he had never actually been a part of all that. And he was just kind of like, he was kind of crazy.
shane: Yeah, he was just smart.
Danny Price: And so a lot of this stuff comes out after. I'm not, yeah, I know, right? I'm not saying any of this. There's not spiritual warfare. And that was, again, this conclusion that Mike from this podcast is trying to draw.
Danny Price: He's like, I'm sure there is stuff out there and there was certain things, but the panic part of it, it was like, kind of like you were saying about the SNL thing.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: It's like, oh, it must be the devil. And it's like people... really freaked out and over, don't know what the word is, overemphasized Satan's power and all this Satanism that really wasn't really even happening.
Danny Price: So anyways.
shane: Well, like I said, I use the word sensationalism. I just, I feel like there was a lot of sensationalism around it.
Danny Price: Right.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So that wasn't necessarily, that was a, such a small part of the sermon, but I figured I'd bring that up.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: It was interesting. Do you think that was the second part of that question I never asked, but do you think, ah um, affects our church today, any of that stuff? Like, are there any residual effects of that Satanism kind of like panic or fear that we kind of hold to today? Or is that kind of all died off?
shane: I think the bigger problem is the backlash, like I said, that people my age, I think there was a lot of Christians my age who kind of just wrote off all the spirit, that the more spiritual elements of our faith.
shane: um it It became more of a, if I do this, then this.
Danny Price: Hmm.
shane: And if I do this, then this. And kind of a transactional thing with God rather than the spirit of God at work.
Danny Price: who
Danny Price: Got it. So the complete the complete opposite polar opposite end, people swinging more to that side.
shane: Yeah, yeah, the pendulum swung too far the other way.
Danny Price: OK, interesting.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Interesting. um Kind of in that same line, I was just curious, because this is a thing with holt with exorcisms that you know people will bring up often with spiritual warfare.
shane: Hmm.
Danny Price: I wanted to ask your your opinion on this. So you'll you'll hear about people doing exorcisms or fighting back demons with the name of Jesus.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: um Is there anything biblical that would point to Christian? I should say Christians and nowadays, because I know that the disciples did it when Jesus sent them out at different times. But is there anything biblical for nowadays that we have power over demonic forces, over Satan by either using the name of Jesus or by praying it away?
Danny Price: Should we be... Is that something we should even be thinking about? Or is that something, again, kind of a side topic, but what do you think?
shane: Yeah, i mean I I think we should be thinking about it. I mean, I think we need to be careful, um you know, there again, how deep we get ourselves in. I think the power in the name of Jesus really, I would say it only has as much authority as our relationship with Jesus.
shane: Like, you know, someone who doesn't have any kind of relationship with Jesus, trying to just say Jesus's name and have power in it, you know, I mean, obviously I would be careful with that, you know, but, and, you know, not saying god can't do what God's going to do, but, you know, um, but yeah, I mean, all throughout the Bible, we see, um, you know, the, uh, the apostles came to Jesus at one time and they're like, we're, you know, we're seeing all this happen in your name.
Danny Price: What is that story
shane: Um, um, you know, uh, Luke 10, 17 says, even the demons are subject to us in your name. That's so the disciples were coming to him and saying, and you know, your name, it's not us, it's your name.
shane: And, um, so yeah, I mean, I definitely think there's something to it. Um, you know, we've definitely been given authority in the name of Jesus, but, um, But, you know, are you asking more specifically just like uttering the name of Jesus or what he wants you?
Danny Price: Well, a little bit of that. um And as you were saying that, I wanted to bring up this verse in Acts about just the name of Jesus.
shane: Okay.
Danny Price: I was more talking about exorcisms in general, but I will mention this this this passage in Acts 19.
shane: Okay.
Danny Price: This is where I totally forgot about this. And i it just like jogged my memory when you said something. But it's when the jewish there's like these Jewish sons of this guy named Sceva. And they go around trying to call out evil spirits in the name of Jesus. And they would say in the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, which is hilarious to say that, I command you to come out.
Danny Price: And they were doing this and the demon answered them and says, Jesus, I know, and Paul, I know, but who are you?
shane: Yeah, I don't recognize you.
Danny Price: and then the and then the And then the demon overpowered them and drove them out naked. And then they come to Paul and ask him, like why didn't that work?
shane: Yeah, yeah that i mean yeah, I remember the story.
Danny Price: Which is interesting.
shane: Yeah, and I guess that's what I'm saying is like, see, they didn't have the relationship. So, I mean, ah the power is only going to be there based on our connection to Jesus.
shane: Now, obviously if Jesus wants to do it, Jesus is going to do it and he doesn't even need you there.
Danny Price: Brett.
Danny Price: Brett.
shane: But, um, I do think the name the name of Jesus play, you know, people who have a deep relationship with Jesus, there is authority in that.
Danny Price: No, that makes sense. Should Christians... Should we be worried about exorcisms? I mean, i don't even know anyone personally in my circle, even in like a secondary circle. I've never heard of that in my lifetime. Is that still a thing? Is there any evidence that points to that being a thing in now in our day and age?
shane: Yeah, I mean, there is. um in third world countries, you see it every now and then. I've never experienced it. um I have experienced and known people firsthand who would not say that they needed an exorcism, but they had torment by demons, like very specific torment, um you know, that they were not embodied by a demon.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: Right.
shane: You know, first of all, I don't even believe that you can be if you're a believer.
Danny Price: Right.
Danny Price: But you can be influenced or like tor or yeah tormented.
shane: Yeah, but you can, yeah, and um we actually have a young lady going to our church right now who has an amazing story of very recently, um you know why you know, I know you know you know you know the and Zach and Kent.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: They, um, they very much believe in the power of prayer in these situations and, and are very involved in, um, just wanting to help people in that way.
shane: And, and, um, they, I won't mention this lady's name cause I don't want, I don't know she would allow, you know, be happy with that, but, um, or want that.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: But, um, you know, I, I've seen, I've literally seen the difference in her. Um, they, you know, they prayed over her and, and, um, you know, at, getting authority of Jesus named, um, asked, you know, told the demons ah to leave her. And, and, um, you know, I mean, she will tell you flat out that, you know, it's, it's made a huge difference and I've witnessed it in her.
shane: So, you know, I do think it's, there it's, it's something that does happen and we got to be mindful of it, but I don't think it happens to the average person.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You have to do things that really kind of allow that in, you know, at that level.
Danny Price: Yeah. There's that parable that's really confusing about the demons returning and finding finding the house cleanly swept and ah hu and they come back into stronger force.
shane: Yeah, and then they come back.
Danny Price: I've heard a lot of different interpretations of that and and I'm not sure I agree with some of them. um
shane: Yeah, and you didn't prep me on that, so I have no notes.
Danny Price: But anyways. No, and that's coming to me last minute and I'm not
shane: a
Danny Price: ah we don't need to go down the whole demon possession rabbit hole. But yeah, no, I think that would be a consistent biblical, like, you know church history view is that if you're a believer, you're not, you cannot be indwelt and possessed by a demon because you have the Holy spirit inside of you.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: But that doesn't mean that, you know, again, like you said, our, our fight is not against flesh and blood. And we're still fighting against these powers. So, which kind of leads us to our next question. Um,
Danny Price: I kind of set this question up and I sent this to you and i I don't know if you got a chance to read it, but I was curious, how do we, because you've mentioned that our fight is against these powers, these principalities, you know, um, Satan and the demons, how do we look at people who are evil?
Danny Price: Do we cause I guess like, here's what I'm saying.
Danny Price: Let me pull this up really quick. How does it work? Like when you have someone that's like so terrible, like Stalin or Hitler, are they not really responsible for their actions? Yeah. Like, how how do we look at that when there's like truly evil people? Do we just say, oh, that well, that must have been a demon controlling them or that just must be Satan's power?
Danny Price: Or are those people responsible for the evil that they're committing?
shane: Yes.
Danny Price: Does that make sense?
shane: Yeah, it does.
Danny Price: Because it says our fight is not against flesh and blood, but then there's these there's this this flesh and blood that's really doing some terrible stuff.
shane: Yeah. um
Danny Price: So do we say, oh, well, that wasn't them.
shane: Yeah, no, i Yeah.
Danny Price: Does that make sense?
shane: And I would say this, our spiritual fight is not against flesh and blood, um but evil people still need to be stopped. You know, I mean, we we need to use physical weapons against physical evil.
Danny Price: OK.
shane: You know, um and um yeah, I mean, they're 100% responsible.
Danny Price: Right. Yeah.
shane: You know, they um sure, do I believe that there was probably demonic evil influence behind them. abs Absolutely. But they're still 100% responsible for it. And the actions that someone commits, I don't care if they're even demon possessed.
shane: They're still responsible for them. And they need to be stopped at all costs, you know.
Danny Price: OK.
shane: um Um, I, I do think it's a, you know, we need to look at that. that When I took, um I think when we're talking about the battle, the battle for advancing the gospel, you know what I mean? That's, that's, that's probably the main thing we need to look at. Like, how are we fighting that spiritually? But when we see someone, you know, sex trafficking, um, things like that, it's, it's evil and they need to be stopped at all, you know, at all costs. And, um,
shane: You know, that that that we don't give them the excuse spiritual forces in their life.
Danny Price: Okay, got it. Does that change? Like, take a step back from these evil dictators. Let's just say it's someone in your life that does something wrong wrong to you.
Danny Price: do you does that Does it change your personal your perspective of... how you view the evil that's been done to you. Like I'm thinking of someone that's just malicious towards you or slanders you or like, I mean, I'm sure you've experienced this where someone spreads gossip or bad things about you that aren't true.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Do you say, Oh, well that's the, that's the devil he's oppressing me. And that's spiritual warfare. Or do you say that's just that person being sinful?
shane: No, I mean, I would say...
Danny Price: does Does that make sense? like i'm just trying to figure out like, what do you attribute?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: What do you what do have the tension where,
shane: So I would say, you know, we're, we're facing the spiritual warfare side of it. You know, definitely there's a spiritual warfare because now that person accuses or that person spreads gossip or whatever. Well, now Satan uses that spiritually to attack you, right? It may depress you or make you angry or make you, you know, want to be vengeful or whatever. So now you've got to battle that spiritual battle, but You know, there are people too that you do need to do physical things to stop them.
shane: You know, now I have found more often than not, people are not purposely being malicious. And so we don't want to see them as their enemy.
Danny Price: Right. Mm-hmm.
shane: You know, more more often than not, the person is just being the person and, you know, they have their own sin that they struggle with. They have the stuff they deal with.
shane: But, they're not purposely being malicious. So you don't want to see them as the enemy. And it, you know, now have there been maybe two or three times in my life? I would say, no, I think they're kind of just trying to be evil.
shane: Yeah. There have been a couple of times, but not very many, you know, and i I, think it does help us to do that to say, Hey, look, I'm going to, need to fight the spiritual battle of what's happening within me when these things happen. Yeah.
shane: But, and i and I can spiritually fight the battle with that person by praying for that person, but they're not purposely malicious against me.
Danny Price: OK.
shane: You know, I mean, i get I get people say things about me all the time, you know, as a when you're in front of people, you know, people just, they they think they can say things and I don't hear it or I don't find out about it.
shane: I find out more often than not. I think I find out. And, you know, if they repeat it more, you know, if it's something that they're saying regularly.
Danny Price: Sure.
Danny Price: Yeah, sure.
shane: And, you know, I could, I could choose to see those people as the enemy. i don't, I see it as, you know, God's doing, you know, working in them and they're, you know, they have their sin and, you know, blah, blah, blah.
Danny Price: okay
shane: And now I have to deal with the spiritual battle that Satan wants to use that stuff in my life. And, you know, and I, I can, so I think that's, we have to see the spiritual battle of Satan attacking us with things that are going on.
Danny Price: okay
shane: Does that make sense?
Danny Price: Would you so you, know, it does. It does.
shane: Oh, yeah.
Danny Price: Would you say that things like turning the other cheek and where Jesus talks about that, is that kind of like a biblical, it's like that theology that you just talked about with skin on of like, I'm going to turn the other cheek because I know that that I'm, my fight is not against that person.
shane: Yeah, when you're dealing...
shane: Yeah, when you're dealing with the person, yep.
Danny Price: is that what you're talking about? Okay.
shane: I think that's the the exact way to add to that. You know, i don't think we turn the other cheek with the devil. You know, we don't, that would yeah, we got to be on the fence with him.
Danny Price: Sure. Oh no, we want to be offensive. Yeah.
shane: But with people, we got to, yeah, I mean, yeah I think that's, you know, we weeks too quickly we start to see people as the enemy versus seeing them as just another sinner trying to make it in life like you.
shane: And, you know, they're not trying to purposely be a bad person.
Danny Price: Yeah. It's really messy, I think, to look at what you're talking about because it's really difficult, I think, to see evil for what it truly is.
Danny Price: And we are people that that are sinful, that commit evil. But a lot of the times it's, you know, the devil behind behind it all. But we're still responsible. Like, we're all still responsible for what we're doing.
shane: Yep. Yeah.
Danny Price: But... It's a very, like, you know you catch what I'm saying? Like, it's a very odd, it's a very odd, I don't know what the word is.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: It's not like a like a paradox, but it kind of is a little bit of a paradox. Word, a lot of times, a conduit for Satan to get his purposes done and, you know sow dissension and, you know, cause turmoil for the believers and for the church.
Danny Price: But that's not, you know, we're responsible for that evil. But again, that evil is like kind of flowing through us, which is a weird, it's a weird, it's a weird thing. You're responsible and yet you're also kind of not responsible because there's an evil purpose that you're not even realizing behind it.
shane: Yeah, but I actually would fight back or push back a little bit on the not responsible.
Danny Price: um
shane: I still think you're 100% responsible. that You know, we're still responsible for the choices we make.
Danny Price: Sure.
shane: And and I think we've got to be careful to not... You know, I mean, you know, it's kind of like the whole predestination, um you know, God's sovereign argument.
Danny Price: Free will.
shane: We could argue, well, I'm not responsible for any of the choices I make because God's in control of all it, right?
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: but But we are still responsible for every choice we make, everything we do, you know, we every sin we commit and every sin we um omit, you know.
Danny Price: Yes.
shane: um And, you know, we just have to recognize that's why we're supposed to be doing that battle. is We're battling even for our own soul, right? you know, and in many ways, um where you know, that we don't get caught up in our sin.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: No, that's a good clarification. I didn't mean that. I guess I meant more the origination of evil, which I guess is another, that's a, we're not going to get into that, but that's a whole nother question.
shane: Yeah, I know you didn't. i
Danny Price: Like where did evil come, where does evil come from?
shane: yeah
Danny Price: And is, you know, where, don't know if we can get into that right now, but that's a whole, I guess that's, that's kind of going more into like a, I know that's a very philosophical because Bible doesn't talk a whole lot about that.
shane: that's a That's a good question for when my voice is better.
Danny Price: Um, so anyways, um, Let's move forward. So just talking about the armor of God, I have a question for most of these elements of the armor of God. i i don't know if we'll have time to get into all of them, but kind of just kicking off with the big one at the beginning, which I think is really important is truth.
shane: Yeah, that's fine.
Danny Price: It talks about putting on the belts of truth. I love what you said about the kind of the belts for a soldier kind of being the thing that held everything together and kind of everything was like based off of that, like your belt's not on right and it's not tight, like everything's screwed up.
Danny Price: um how do we as Christians put on the belt of truth? If you could just kind of re rework that a little bit and then specifically what is truth. And we can talk a little bit about more of that later. later
shane: Yeah, I mean, that and that is a tough one, right? I mean, I would say the main truth, when I was digging into that a little bit, you know, that is the the truth of the actual gospel, right? I mean, the the the key core doctrine of of faith, the the things that have been passed down from generation to generation and throughout the church, you know? I mean, that's, that's I would say, what we would look at and we'd say that is the truth that we we need to hold to.
shane: Now there's a bunch of other stuff that we could have fun debating about and talking about and, and have our beliefs on and maybe choose a church based on, but, but that stuff, it would fit in within, you know, I just gave you that book on the catechism, know, teach your kids, you know, that those things that the church is handed down from generation to generation.
Danny Price: Sure.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: I think that's what if we're, what Paul's talking about. Um, and then everything else would be kind of gravy icing on the cake kind thing. That would be to me what the truth that the Bible is referring to is.
Danny Price: Okay. Is there in generality, objective truth, would you say?
shane: In gen, in generality or in, in, um,
Danny Price: Like if you're talking to someone on the street, I'm talking, of I'm talking, ah yes, I'm talking, if you're talking to someone on the street and they come to you and they're
shane: Are you talking about scripturally or life?
Danny Price: saying things like, well, my truth this and my truth that. Is there a truth that supersedes what you're what you feel about ri about reality, regardless of...
shane: i love when you anne I love when you ask me a question that you probably have a stronger answer than I do. um yeah Yes, there's absolutely an objective truth. i'm i'm For the listeners, I totally know that Danny 100% knows there's a police objective truth.
Danny Price: I believe there's objective truth.
shane: um
Danny Price: I'm curious.
shane: But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Danny Price: What do you tell people, though, about that? And how do you explain that?
shane: Um, but, uh, maybe that's what you need to do Maybe you need to start saying like, so what do you say to the person that comes out and says that, you know, cause I, it's always funny to me to do hear you say it.
Danny Price: Yeah, sure. That's a softball question.
shane: Yeah. Anyway.
Danny Price: oh
shane: So yeah, I mean, there's, there's objective truth. Obviously we're living in a culture that says there isn't. Um, and our culture is going haywire. um and unfortunately it's working its way into the church. Um,
shane: um You know, we have a lot of people that have that, this is my truth mindset. um The reality is there, you can't look at some, there can't be hundred different truths.
shane: um You know, I mean, obviously we have the, there's a different way of looking at things. You know, the four blind guys describing the elephant, one describes the trunk.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
shane: you know, you, if you've heard that analogy where one, one guy's feeling the trunk and he says it's long and, you know, then another guy says this feeling of the legs and he's there, it's thick and muscular and, you know, but well, well, they're seeing a different perspective.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: So there's that, there is that, but it's still the same truth. Um, so there's, there's a, sometimes a perspective on the same truth, but then we get past that into things where people just want to make stuff up and they're, that's, that's not truth, you know?
shane: So, yeah.
Danny Price: Right.
Danny Price: And I would say that that is more where people are looking at For example, you and me might differ on some secondary things because we're looking at the Bible and we have different interpretations, but we recognize that the Bible is truth and we recognize also we have fallible misunderstandings and errors in the way we think, but we're trying our best.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: And I think that's where you get a lot of those divisions, you know, from denominations or people. It's like, well, I think this and I think this, and based off of how I interpret scripture, this is what I see. And then you go, well, that's not what I see because look at this verse and this verse. And then you go back and forth and back and forth.
Danny Price: I guess, yeah, that's what I meant more is, if you talk to someone who has no basis for truth, how would you even convince them or talk to them about truth and how you put that on as a Christian?
shane: Yeah, I think.
Danny Price: does that Does that make sense? like Like, how would you even approach that with somebody? Like, hey, there's something that's bigger than you that's that's true about the universe and true about reality.
shane: Well, I mean, the original thing I will usually go back to is.
shane: When you know, is kind of the bigger if they say why, you know, I come up with my own view of God or my own whatever is I'll usually go back to, well, how do you how did you get there?
Danny Price: Yes.
shane: You know, and then. kind of go back to the idea of if if you're going to make up your own truth, then reality is you are actually saying you're God.
Danny Price: yes
shane: So, you know, um so I usually try to get people to at least admit that. Now, once they admit that, if I've had literally people go, well, okay, well, then I'm God. I'm my God, you know, and I don't even know what to do with that, honestly.
Danny Price: Yeah, you're like, okay, you you're but you're you're a pretty crappy god.
shane: You know, besides pray for him Yeah.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: You know, um but, but if they can get to that to say, Hey, look, we can't just make up, there has to be whatever we want. There has to be a standard. So now let's look at what should, what is that standard? um You know, and then from there,
shane: You know, the Bible has so much backing it. You know, obviously, don't have it in front of me right now. We probably should, you know, maybe we could chat to you, but, you know, there's so much textual and historical and archaeological criticisms of the Bible that have been proven over so many years, so many critics, that...
Danny Price: Yeah.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: You know, that that's the next step I get to is I usually get to back to, okay, well, let's look at should the Bible be accepted as truth? You know, and and I think the bigger concern I have, honestly, is not that person who says there is no truth.
shane: The bigger concern I have is believers nowadays who would say there is a truth, but I'm going to pick and choose what part of that truth I believe.
shane: And that to me is the bigger, that's where um my heart is concerned is.
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: Isn't that like the same thing as that first person who says they're God? Because ultimately you're still picking and choosing.
shane: Yeah, absolutely. It is the same thing, but it sounds better to people.
Danny Price: Yeah, sure. Of course it does.
shane: So people, I mean, and I think we have a lot of people in our churches today. And I would venture to say they are coming to MBF that hold to that belief.
shane: it well, I believe the Bible, but I don't accept this part or I don't accept this part. And, you know, I think obviously we want to do textual, you know, look at the textual,
shane: sorry, textual analysis of what what type of scripture we're reading. Like we're gonna be doing a study in Proverbs in the summer. And, you know, you don't you don't read Proverbs the same way you read the historical books and all that. But outside of that,
shane: You know, i don't we have to be very careful when people start picking and choosing what they want to hold to.
Danny Price: So then with that being said, would it be fair to say that the best way to put on truth is just to read the Bible and to believe it with an entirety? Or how do we put on truth based off of what he's kind of trying to talk about here in Ephesians?
Danny Price: Is there I'm not trying to over practicalize it, but is there a practical of like, do this? And then that's how you put on truth.
shane: Yeah, I really do believe you said it. I think we read the Bible a lot, a lot more than we do on the average person, you know, ah learn to understand it and and study it, you know, like dig into it more with, with other tools, you know, um, and use discernment.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: And I think when we, when we read the Bible, we ask God, we pray beforehand and we ask God to show, reveal himself and, uh, um, help us understand it, you know, um,
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: but But yeah, i would I would say that's it.
Danny Price: Okay. I've heard this. um I just brought to my mind a, ah I guess, i don't know if it's true. It's a story I've heard a lot when it comes to truth, but don't, um again, if you're out there you're like, that's been disproven, that's not a thing.
Danny Price: I like it, so I'm going to use it.
shane: Thank
Danny Price: um But it's this whole thought of how people check for counterfeit money and people who handle dollar bills that are counterfeit, like a hundred dollar bills that are, you know, not real. And the way that they practice and the way that they get good at this process is they don't go around looking at all the different counterfeits or all the different things that are not, not the real thing.
shane: Yeah, that's good
Danny Price: They hold the real thing and they constantly are studying the real thing, the field, the weight, the way that it feels in their fingers. And when when they bend it, all this stuff, the with the color, all, all of it. And,
Danny Price: when they, the second they feel something different, they instantly know it's not true. They instantly know that, nope, that's counterfeit.
shane: that's a good
Danny Price: I know it's not. and And they're not going to all these other things and like, let me find out all these other, you know, let let's find every single counterfeit bill that's ever been. And like, we'll look at those. They only look at the real thing. Again, i don't know if that's true, if that actually is how they counterfeiters or people that work for counter counterfeiters.
Danny Price: Good grief, that's a mouthful. um But I'm not sure if that's actually what they do. So someone maybe is going to be listening but like, no, that's not that's not real. But,
shane: It makes sense, though.
Danny Price: I like that.
shane: It's good analogy.
Danny Price: I like that story. It makes sense to me.
shane: Yep. yeah
Danny Price: So anyways, moving on. um How do we take righteousness? So again, just a quote from the verse, I'm gonna read this. It talks about stand there for it. This is verse 14 of chapter six of Ephesians. Stand there for having fastened on the belt of truth and having put on the breastplate of righteousness.
Danny Price: So the question is, how do we take righteousness seriously without being legalistic or to focus on works?
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: how do we how do How do we do that they and they really take it seriously?
shane: Yeah. You know, first of all, I would say anyone who's like really wanting to get into that one, I'm reading Galatians. I think Galatians deals a lot with this because that's what Paul was writing against. It's this group that came behind him and was telling the church, like, that's great that you're saved by grace, but we need, you also need to do these things.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: But, um, you know, I think, First of all, to start with the right mindset. You know, lee dam I don't remember where I heard this, but legalism legalism starts with the mindset of I obey, therefore I'm accepted.
shane: But the gospel says I'm accepted, therefore I obey. And so we, you know, we have to start with that mindset.
Danny Price: Oh, that's good. Oh, I like that.
shane: And, you know, it's like, did you ever see the Count of Monte Cristo?
Danny Price: Oh, geez. Forever ever ago. I don't remember it.
shane: or read the book for those of you who are more.
Danny Price: Yeah, I know. and I know. I know the book. I know the book.
shane: Okay.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Well, um, so the, i can't remember the characters names, but the, the guy who becomes his servant, um, he becomes a servant because the count saved his life.
Danny Price: Yep.
shane: And so he gives his life out of gratitude. He gives his life in servitude to the count. And, um, You know, I just think that's a really good picture of what we're supposed to do in our lives.
shane: You know, we when we fully when we once we realize there is nothing I could do to save myself, I would i would be going to hell for eternity, and and i I'm going to be separated separated from God.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: not i'm a No way am i going to be in the presence of God, none of his goodness, But because of what Jesus did, i now am accepted and I now will expend eternity with God.
shane: Then i obey out of that gratitude. But if we don't have that mindset, it's really hard not to just become legalistic. It's really hard not to become self-righteous.
Danny Price: Yeah. Right. Yeah. And I guess, I guess that's where I was aiming that question is I'm thinking of the people that are like, Oh, it says put on righteousness. So I'm just going all these right things as I'm supposed to put on the armor of God, kind of missing the picture of why you're even doing that and of it being more of a response rather than a,
Danny Price: I don't know. it's it's it's um I think it's important to see it as a response and not as a means to an end where you feel good about yourself because of what you've done.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: But at the same time, i think a lot of people, again, we've talked about this in the past too, of just that other side of, well, I'm not going to take righteousness seriously because I have grace. And so I'm good.
Danny Price: And very clearly here, it does say to put on righteousness.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: So there's, again, like a lot of these things we're talking about, there' is that there's that tension of, having the right mindset, but still living in obedience and still putting on righteousness.
shane: Yeah. yeah I don't know if this makes sense, but it came to my mind.
Danny Price: So.
shane: I was there.
shane: If If a king was assembling the greatest army in the world, and he was handpicking the army, and it was a great honor to be a part of that army, would you, because you put on the breastplate,
shane: of the the king's armor just because you found one of those and you put it on, would you automatic, would you be a part of that army? No, you wouldn't just because you found it. You would have to be handpicked.
shane: And once you're handpicked, now you're going to put that breastplate on, but you're doing it out of, a yeah out of, you're just You're excited to do it because you were chosen.
shane: And and I think, you know that I don't know if that makes sense, but you know i'm just because you go out and you do all these things doesn't doesn't make you, you're not pleasing God.
Danny Price: Yeah. Right.
Danny Price: m
shane: You're pleasing God because you are so grateful that you are his, these things. they the now you you do these things
Danny Price: No, that's a pretty good analogy. That makes sense. Again, you know there's a lot of debate with other religions about this specific thing, about is our works, is it part of your san is sanctification and justification?
Danny Price: Those are theological terms, but which means being more righteous versus and that you're justifying your justification process of being saved, are those intertwined or are those disjointed?
Danny Price: And I think we would believe they're disjointed. You're saved separately. You're justified not because of your sanctification. Your sanctification comes after your justification.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: But there would be a lot of people that would say, no, no, no, no thosetu those are the same thing. like The more you become sanctified, the more you become justified. And I don't believe scripture teaches that, but I know some people, you know, there's different religions, specifically like Catholicism or like Mormonism would teach that a little bit more openly that you have to do.
Danny Price: And the more that you do, the better it gets for you in terms of your justification.
shane: Yep.
Danny Price: Maybe not with those exact words, but you get, you get the idea. Um, number, number six, question number six, um, what are the flaming darts of the evil one that it talks about here in Ephesians 6? And how does how does faith protect us from the flaming darts?
shane: Yeah, i mean, I tried to hit on these in a sermon real quick, but, you know, things like doubt, fear, anxiety, you know, all the things that take our power away in Christ, you know, um those are things that I would, you know, say that those are your, the the flaming ah darts, the evil one. You know, anything that, you know,
shane: that makes you start wondering if you're effective, makes sure you start wondering if God loves you, makes you, all the all those things.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: And, enam yeah, because I think the greater your faith is,
Danny Price: how does faith how does but How would faith protect us from all that?
shane: the quicker you are to to move those out of your mind. You know, um like for instance, i'll I'll be honest right now, i am struggling so much with my voice. I mean, you and I have had these conversations.
shane: I mean, this is this is moving past frustration and I'm i'm literally struggling with depression.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: okay But I keep going back to,
Danny Price: Mm-hmm.
shane: Man, God has me. i know I know I'm God's, and I know that God has a plan, and I know this is God's church, i'm not my church. So if this is what God wants me to deal with for for this long, yeah, really.
Danny Price: ah As you struggle saying it with your words to try to get it out.
shane: You know, if he wants me to deal with this for this long, then um then I'm trusting him. and And I guarantee you, if I didn't have strong faith, it would be so easy for me to start going downhill fast.
Danny Price: Right.
shane: and And I know it seems trite.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: Like I even feel like it's trite to worry about my voice sometimes. But i mean, this is what I do.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: This is my main tool that I have that I serve God with. that i did i And not just serve God with. This is how I provide for my family. This is how a I find meaning.
Danny Price: I wouldn't say it's trite.
shane: Yeah. So I find meaning in my life.
Danny Price: I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that.
shane: yes
Danny Price: Yeah, no. Yeah. It's, it's very important. I think for teaching, which is a big part of being a pastor. Um, Maybe you could be like Steve Jobs. Not Steve Jobs. um Stephen Hawking with the little computer computer thing.
shane: Yeah, really. But, you know, and I don't think even people realize, like, even when I'm preaching, like, I'm not nearly as confident in my sermons when I'm struggling with my voice. And even doing this, I'm not nearly as confident because I have to be very careful with my words.
Danny Price: Oh, totally.
shane: And I have to be so focused on how I project that it takes brain energy from what I'm trying to say.
Danny Price: Yeah. Yeah, it's taking mental capacity. It's like if you're in pain trying to talk to somebody, it's like you're thinking part of your mind is still focusing on the fact that you're in pain, which is why a lot of people get frustrated when they're in pain and try to talk through stuff.
shane: Yeah, yeah.
shane: So all that goes back to, you know, I mean, I think faith is what what gets those things out of your mind and makes you have the power to go on.
Danny Price: Here's a side question with that. i I'm just just kind of coming to me. Sorry, it's not on the question list that I gave you. How do you distinguish between flaming darts and good conviction from the Holy Spirit?
Danny Price: Like, for example, um you're not taking your faith seriously, or you'll never be enough. Is there an element where it's like, well, no, yeah, you will never be enough.
Danny Price: That's good. And that's coming from the Holy spirit. And that puts you in a state of just complete worship of God. Or is it always bad to feel with some of those thoughts? Like at what point does it cross into like, no, no, that's, that's bad. That's the, that's causing me to have depression and anxiety and all that stuff.
Danny Price: Or at what point is it? Oh, that's good. Because I think a lot of people nowadays, any negative emotion is a bad emotion. Are there negative emotions that you can feel that are Holy spirit driven? Does that make sense? Is that but a good way to format that question?
shane: Yeah, no, it makes sense.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: Yeah, I think there's a difference between um negative and, what's the word, challenging.
Danny Price: Accusatory? Okay, okay, yeah.
shane: You know, i i don't think God gives us negative emotions, but I do think we get challenging ones a lot. um
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: But um one thing I heard, um I don't remember who said this, but it has always stuck with me. And really, it... man it For me, it works. i don't know if this is true for everyone.
shane: I never speak about myself positively in the first person. You know how you do mine, you speak to yourself. nine
Danny Price: ah Explain. like ah Give me an example.
shane: So if, when I'm having negative things that I would say are from Satan, from the enemy, it's, man, you suck. Or man, you are, you are so, um,
Danny Price: Uh-huh.
shane: you're so like lazy or why you're so you're undisciplined or, yeah you know, I'm just saying the things that he speaks to me about, you know, but, you know, but when I, when it's something from God, it's very much in the first person.
Danny Price: Stupid.
Danny Price: Okay. okay
Danny Price: Yeah, right.
shane: It's very much, I need to, um I need to make sure I'm reading i reading my Bible. I need to, need you know, like, a I need to call so-and-so because I have not called them in forever.
shane: You know, it's it's more of a conviction of what I need to do versus a negative speak.
Danny Price: Okay. Got it.
shane: So I don't know. And I'm not saying that that I cannot give you a Bible verse on that.
Danny Price: got it
shane: But for me, that really plays out that way. Okay.
Danny Price: Interesting. Okay. Um, yeah. And I guess if it's spurring you onto something better, like you're getting convicted, I'm going to be, i need to be more selfless with my wife. Again, that's something that is biblical that you can go to scripture and go, but just you feeling bad about something with no path forward and almost feeling that like, that like shame and this, this, and like that despair of like, you'll never be, you'll never measure up.
shane: Yeah, shame.
Danny Price: I'll never be enough.
shane: yeah Yeah, and that's a great...
Danny Price: Um, What are you going to do about that? But if you're like, I need to worship God more, I need to be more so selfless and more understanding of, like, again, i see what you're saying.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Like, it it does drive your mind in ah in a proper direction.
shane: Yeah, and I give that with, ah there again, I always go back to relationship, but you know that's a perfect one when you said about like being a husband, because there's plenty of times I get convicted, like, oh, I need to call Tanya.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: I need to send Tanya an encouraging text. I need to bring Tanya a coffee in the morning. I need to, and those are solutions.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: but But if you're sitting around thinking, man, you just, you blew it so bad as a husband, she's never going to forgive you. Oh, you, so you know, you're,
Danny Price: That's flaming darts.
shane: that's that's That's from the enemy, for sure.
Danny Price: That's flaming darts. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Let me pull up this last question.
shane: Okay.
Danny Price: And I love that you mentioned this. This was, um like I was excited to talk about this. How do you learn more of God's word and dig deep without, and this is in your words your words from the sermon, keeping your sword sheathed and becoming well-informed, but not transformed?
Danny Price: Um, so I'm thinking of someone that's, and again, this is a tendency that I have is i like you, like you mentioned, we have this power of learning about God's word and then we don't even use it. We just learn about it and then we keep our sword in its sheath and we never actually get it out there.
Danny Price: Um, how do you do that? How do you learn about God's word and really dig into the theology and learn about stuff without falling into that, that trap?
shane: I think a lot of that is when you couple God's word with prayer. Um, You know, asking God to convict you with it. um And, you know, there are so there are some people who just love to devour God's word. And I wish, you know, I mean, honestly, like they just blow me away as much as they they read the word, you know.
shane: um And i think there's different tactics that you use, though. You know, I mean. So if you're reading pages and pages of God's word at a time, some, you know, that's, that's definitely helpful, but it's probably good to pick one thing out of all the stuff you learn and go, okay, that one thing I'm actually gonna, that one's for me.
shane: That's literally God's, I need God to, and do something with me on that.
Danny Price: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
shane: And, you know, and like pray about it, write it down, journal it, um you know, maybe memorize that one passage. You know, that that kind of thing versus just taking in a bunch of material.
shane: um um But even then, I just think, you know, you know this, the more you get into reading God's word, but I've never met anyone that goes, oh, for 45 years, this is how I've studied God's word.
shane: they They do stuff like, oh you know what? This year, I'm to spend a whole year in this book of the Bible. This year, I'm gonna read through the whole Bible. This year, I'm going to memorize verse a week.
Danny Price: yeah
shane: You know, it most people that really get into studying God's word and and use it as a a sword that they allow to cut into their hearts, they're not just reading it. They're constantly looking for ways to try new things to get it in hum and to actually get into their heart.
shane: You know, for me, like one of the things i I've done a few times that's really helped me is like, I'll just pick a book of the Bible and I'll go, okay, for three months, I'm to read this book every week.
shane: You know, and I'll just, ah and then don't, I can't really, I'm not very good at memorizing like large passages. But what I do is I can literally outline the whole book.
Danny Price: OK.
shane: You know, so the time I'm done, i can outline the whole book without looking at it easily.
Danny Price: Yeah.
shane: And, you know, and like, so Ephesians and James are two books I've done that with.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: And ah so at least, if we're at the very little at the very least, I can open them up. And, you know, within 20 seconds, find whatever passage I need to find it to kind of remind myself.
shane: Things like that.
Danny Price: No, I like that. do you Do you think it's wrong? to consume a lot of quote unquote theological material. um Obviously, I mean, um the word the word is awesome, but like, for example, is there, even the word aside, even if it's just sermons or commentaries or podcasts or whatever, is there a point where you would be worried for someone or at what point, I guess, would you be worried for someone in their life? Is it by what they, like, if you saw like no fruit, when would you start to say to someone, hey man, you're listening you're listening and reading a lot of stuff, but there's there's nothing happening.
Danny Price: um it's like going in one ear and out the other. Is there a limit to how much we can comprehend and actually allow to transform us? And should we be careful of that? Is that something that you've ever, I mean, obviously that's probably not a common thing, but is that something that you've ever have people?
shane: So I've witnessed a lot of people who are great at taking it in and horrible at living it. um
Danny Price: Okay. Okay.
shane: But that doesn't mean that that means they there is a limit. I just think that they've allowed, you know, Satan's going to hit us in any way he can.
shane: You know, so some people going to hit him by distracting him and never letting him, never, you know, they're never going to read the word much. And then others are going read the word all the time and Satan's going to distract them by making a all about the theology and not about their relationship with Jesus.
shane: so um So, yes, I've run into those people, but never one that I would go, it's because you've read too much. I would say, no, it's because you've allowed your heart to be closed.
Danny Price: Okay.
shane: So, you know, i think it's more they just need to be jarred open a little bit, you know. um But, no, because I've known people that
Danny Price: yeah
shane: I mean, I had a professor in college that, i mean he i mean, he was just one of the most loving guys ever knew. and he had the entire book of John and Romans memorized. And he um because he was a missionary in Russia and he was taking, and that's what he did to take the Bible you know, to, that's how they did it. They'd memorize it and take it.
Danny Price: Memorize it.
shane: And then, um but on top of that, i mean, he just, he could discuss any theological point with people a way and bring up commentators and theologians and things.
shane: that I mean, you know, we just blow our minds, but he was just filled with the Holy Spirit, you know?
Danny Price: Huh.
shane: So, so I don't think there's ever a too much, you know, it's just a matter of, you know, just not getting, know,
Danny Price: Hmm.
Danny Price: OK.
shane: not letting it harden you. And I think I've also seen quite a few where it is. I've seen it hard.
Danny Price: And when you say hardened, you mean hardened it against God or hardened against other people like being.
shane: Against other people and against, um, Yeah, and I would say even against the Holy Spirit convicting them almost, it's like they they become self-righteous and they're in their understanding or in their knowledge, and they don't focus enough on their understanding.
shane: Because there's a big difference.
Danny Price: Yeah, because knowledge and wisdom. Yeah, right.
shane: Yeah, wisdom, yeah. So I've definitely seen that.
Danny Price: Interesting.
shane: And I would say for a while, i was actually... um Kind of, even in my preaching, sometimes I would be a little negative towards people like that.
shane: um Like almost make it sound like you shouldn't bother reading that much and studying that much. So I've had, I've kind of, I've repented of that, honestly, because I, yeah, I would say I was a little too much like, oh, don't worry about all that.
Danny Price: Interesting.
shane: So.
Danny Price: Yeah. But it's good to do that. No. And again, i don't think that's, I think it's far more common to see people that don't read a lot and don't
shane: Yeah, way more common.
Danny Price: That's more common than that but I do think that there is that other side of people who are very well-informed, very smart, and that it almost, it like makes you a little bit of a Scrooge a little bit, and you're kind of shriveled up and you're not, you're not transformed at all.
shane: yeah yeah
shane: well the other thing i would say is i've rarely very rarely met the theologian the one who like the one who studies theology who enjoys studying theology that they disagree with and i think sometimes you need to
Danny Price: Interesting.
shane: You know, I meet people who are way too rigid on secondary issues because they just indoctrinate themselves on what i would I think all of us would call secondary issues.
Danny Price: Yeah. A little bit like an echo chamber.
shane: Yeah. Yeah.
Danny Price: um Like you're just so, so you're you're so steeped in it. You're not, you haven't listened to anybody else or even heard given another opinion, the time of day.
shane: Yeah.
Danny Price: Obviously not on, i would I would say it's probably not wise to do too much digging into on like core doctrine and like, oh, well, let's like, let me really give this some thought. i don't I don't know if that's super helpful, but for sure secondary stuff, I could see how that's,
Danny Price: unhealthy just because again you'll continue to find people that only agree with you and find people that will only you know say exactly what you were thinking anyways and you're like oh this is so good and you're like well that's because you think exactly that way that's why you think it's so good i'm guilty of that sometimes i know that that's it's very easy it's fun it's fun for us to find people we agree with and be like yeah see i told you see i told you so
shane: Yeah. Yeah. yeah
shane: Oh yeah. Well, especially because they say it, sometimes they say it so much better than we would. And we're like, yes.
Danny Price: oh totally exactly exactly No, I'm guilty of that too. I think that's something I i could work on. So anyways, this is good. um That's all the questions I had. We can end the episode there.
Danny Price: um You're gone for next week. It's who is it? Scott or is it Tony?
shane: ah Scott, Scott's preaching.
Danny Price: Tony, Scott.
shane: And in the 18th, on the 18th, I'm home, but, um and I'll be there on Sunday, but ah Tony's going to preach, our new youth pastor.
Danny Price: Scott's next week.
Danny Price: I'm excited.
shane: So I just wanted him to, yeah, he's going to stand alone.
Danny Price: Is he starting off Colossians or is he just doing a standalone message?
shane: I wanted to let him just have something he could just kind of more share his heart, let people get to know him.
Danny Price: Yeah. It's your first time speaking in front of a church.
shane: yeah
Danny Price: Yeah. Make him preach on tithing or something really controversial and hard. Anyways. Cool. Well, thanks for listening guys. man, I have been like, my jaw this whole time. It's been like, i've been a little scattered.
Danny Price: it's been like locked up. Like I'm getting, have you ever had one of those cramps, like underneath your jaw?
shane: Okay, I've had that.
Danny Price: like where like your muscles cramping, like this whole time it's been buging bugging me. So if I sounded a little bit scattered and like hard, not getting words out right, it's because it literally is like, it I have like a big knot right here under my chin right now.
Danny Price: Um, yeah, I appreciate you guys. Um, thanks for listening again, like every, you know, every other episode, please pass this on to your friends. And then we haven't had a question for a second. I think it's been like two, two or three weeks since we've had a question.
Danny Price: Um, so after this next sermon from Scott, if you guys are listening to this in time for Sunday sermon, please be thinking during the sermon, if you can even, you know, please send me a text or just jot it down.
Danny Price: And again, you can send it to, what was it chain? The admin email.
shane: Admin, ad just admin at mvfchurch.com.
Danny Price: What's it called?
Danny Price: Yeah, send it to admin at mvfchurch.com or if you have mine or Shane's number, which I'm sure a lot of you do, send it to us directly. It just helps us get stuff to talk about. And then I'm guessing, Shane, if if we don't end up meeting, I'll still do a podcast next weekend.
Danny Price: But are you are you free potentially on Tuesday next?
shane: um Yeah, I should be, yeah.
Danny Price: Cool. Awesome. right. So we will see you guys next Tuesday. Appreciate you all. Thank you for listening. and Yeah. Catch you guys next week. Bye-bye.
shane: All right.
