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25: #82 David Marler - Triangle UFOs
435 Plays2 years ago
David has had a lifelong interest in the subject of UFOs. He joined The Mutual UFO Network (MUFON) in 1990 as a Field Investigator Trainee. Since then, he has served as Field Investigator, State Section Director, as well as Illinois State Director. David is currently an independent UFO researcher.
During his tenure with MUFON, he had conducted numerous investigations into alleged UFO sightings and related experiences. He has discussed the subject of UFOs on numerous radio and television news programs. He has also lectured on the subject to various school and adult audiences over the years.
David has assisted the History, Learning, Discovery, and Smithsonian Channels on UFO documentaries in addition to independent productions.
David has an extensive personal library of UFO books, journals, magazines, newspapers, and case files from around the world that covers the last 70+ years. With this he has been examining the detailed history of UFO sighting reports and related patterns.
David strives to have an open mind regarding the UFO phenomenon. However, he also acknowledges the need for a skeptical approach when examining each individual UFO report. Despite the large percentage of misidentifications and hoaxes in the UFO data, David recognizes what appears to be a core phenomenon beneath it all.
David received his Bachelor of Science degree in Psychology from Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville (SIUE). He received his Certification in Hypnotherapy from Mottin and Johnson Institute of Hypnosis in St. Louis, Missouri.
David is a Registered Polysomnographic Technician (RPSGT) and assisted in diagnosing and treating patients that suffered from various sleep disorders for several years at a major St. Louis-based medical facility. He has worked within the medical field for over twenty years.
David resides in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
David Website: https://davidmarlerufo.com/
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During his tenure with MUFON, he had conducted numerous investigations into alleged UFO sightings and related experiences. He has discussed the subject of UFOs on numerous radio and television news programs. He has also lectured on the subject to various school and adult audiences over the years.
David has assisted the History, Learning, Discovery, and Smithsonian Channels on UFO documentaries in addition to independent productions.
David has an extensive personal library of UFO books, journals, magazines, newspapers, and case files from around the world that covers the last 70+ years. With this he has been examining the detailed history of UFO sighting reports and related patterns.
David strives to have an open mind regarding the UFO phenomenon. However, he also acknowledges the need for a skeptical approach when examining each individual UFO report. Despite the large percentage of misidentifications and hoaxes in the UFO data, David recognizes what appears to be a core phenomenon beneath it all.
David received his Bachelor of Science degree in Psychology from Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville (SIUE). He received his Certification in Hypnotherapy from Mottin and Johnson Institute of Hypnosis in St. Louis, Missouri.
David is a Registered Polysomnographic Technician (RPSGT) and assisted in diagnosing and treating patients that suffered from various sleep disorders for several years at a major St. Louis-based medical facility. He has worked within the medical field for over twenty years.
David resides in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
David Website: https://davidmarlerufo.com/
!! SUPPORT DISCLOSURE TEAM !!
Disclosure Team Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/disclosureteam
Disclosure Team PayPal: https://paypal.me/disclosureteam?coun...
Disclosure Team Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/disclosure_...
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Transcript
Introduction to Anomalous Podcast Network
00:00:02
Speaker
You're listening to the Anomalous Podcast Network. Multiple voices, one phenomenon.
Conversation with Researcher David Marla
00:00:50
Speaker
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the second day in a row here on the channel. I'm really, really looking forward to this conversation. This is somebody who I've been following for many years now, and I mean, his research and his work is almost second to none. So let's jump straight into it, guys. Please let me welcome David Marla. David, how are you doing? Vinny, good to see you. Great to be here today.
00:01:17
Speaker
I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for agreeing to do this. Now, look, you mentioned, we'll just say, but you mentioned this is actually going to be your last interview for the year. Yes, I've been very busy on multiple UFO related projects. In addition,
00:01:33
Speaker
A number of historical collections have recently come into my possession. I have about 50 to 60 boxes of historical material, which I just recently acquired from Antonio Huneas, who was a very prominent researcher when I first got involved back in 1990 on the UFO subject.
00:01:50
Speaker
Antonio had a wealth of historical materials. About three, four years ago, prior to COVID, I acquired his case files. But he had an incredible collection of foreign, much of it being South American countries, UFO information going back to the 1950s.
Historical UFO Collection Acquisition
00:02:08
Speaker
And so it was a rare treasure trove. And I had an opportunity to acquire his collection and was out there last month, actually.
00:02:16
Speaker
And then I was there last week presenting to the local MUFON chapter in the greater Phoenix, Arizona area. So between lectures I have scheduled this year and collections, plural, that I'll be acquiring over the course of this year, in addition to my career, which as I always tell people, as you know, Vinny, I don't do this for a living. I actually have a career, a day job, and of course my family. You know, we all have to try to make time for our families as well.
00:02:45
Speaker
I just decided that the podcasts were taking up too much of my time, but obviously I wanted to afford you the opportunity for us to talk and present some information for your audience. That means so much.
Triangular UFOs: Book and Characteristics
00:02:56
Speaker
Thank you. I'm really honored. Yeah. So I think what we'll do is if we start off, I think you've got a little presentation that you were going to share. So if we can bring that up, I can't see it on my screen at the moment. Absolutely. Let me pull it up for you right now. Let's see here if I can share my screen.
00:03:13
Speaker
Just a quick message to everyone in the live chat. Thank you so much for being here. If you guys have any questions at all, pop them in capital letters. I will save them to either a relevant point in the interview or towards the end, but all questions are welcome. Right, here we go.
00:03:31
Speaker
Oh, look at that. Perfect. Oh, good. I was hoping you would give me an affirmative that you could see that. So just wanted to mention that I did publish my book back in 2013 on triangular UFOs, namely because they were so prevalent in the UFO reporting at the time. And ironically enough, still today, here in twenty twenty two, there's a prevalence of these triangular UFO or now UAP reports that we're hearing about.
00:03:58
Speaker
And at the time I had a growing collection of historical materials, and based on the data set I had at the time, and that was in 2012, I started putting pen to paper and trying to catalog some of the more unique aspects of the triangular UFO phenomenon. And for those that have read my book, for those that haven't, I'm not going to go through all of these in the interest of time, but much like Lou Elizondo talks about the observables when he was with ATIP,
00:04:24
Speaker
These were my quote unquote observables that I put together based on the historical data looking at triangular UFO reports worldwide. And many of these go back to the 1940s. And so the primary characteristics are those that are more prevalent in the data.
00:04:41
Speaker
secondary characteristics that you can see listed there are ones that are repeated but with less frequency than the primary characteristic. So I know this will be on YouTube so people can always pause and freeze frame that and print that if they'd like to you know dissect that or dive into that. But based on the information that I gathered this was kind of the working profile I put together
00:05:05
Speaker
Interestingly enough, during COVID, on November 3rd, the date of our presidential election,
Importance of Historical Context in UFO Research
00:05:12
Speaker
there was obviously a heightened state of anxiety, everyone wanting to see who was going to be the next president. I was anxious about that, but I was also anxious because the file cabinets you see on the left there were delivered and the ones behind me.
00:05:24
Speaker
on Election Day, and this is the largest historical collection, single collection of historical UFO case files in the world. These are the NYCAP case files, Don Kehoe, Richard Hall's case file collection, going back to the 50s, Dr. J. Alan Hynix Kufos, or Center for UFO Study case files, and also a lesser-known group, CSI New York, not the TV show, but Civilian Sautzer Intelligence of New York.
00:05:51
Speaker
very early 1950s, mid-1950s organization that started cataloging UFO sighting reports. And so there are literally thousands of case files in all of these file cabinets. In addition to the case files, we also have audio recordings, which I've digitized. I think I've digitized over 275 reel-to-reel recordings, some dating back as early as 1957.
00:06:16
Speaker
And those also contain UFO sighting reports and interviews with witnesses. And so, as I always like to say, there's a lot of historical data, which for those that watched the House hearing on UAPs last week, the one thing that was completely devoid of the discussion was the history of this phenomenon.
00:06:36
Speaker
And I was really surprised. I know a lot of people thought that they were feigning ignorance when the intelligence representatives were asked about Malmstrom Air Force Base and UFOs. I don't think they were feigning ignorance. I don't think that they have a firm working knowledge of the history of UFOs and UAPs.
00:06:54
Speaker
And so I feel this incumbent upon myself and other historians on this subject worldwide to really paint a clear picture that is fact-based, based on the data, not our personal beliefs, and try to educate the general public, which admittedly now has taken this into the mainstream.
Triangular UFOs: Myths and Patents
00:07:11
Speaker
And so looking at some of those historical cases though, I think we also have to dispel some of the misinformation or disinformation that's out there. I know when people talk about triangular UFOs, inevitably the TR3B comes up in discussion. And I refer to this lovingly as a pervasive urban myth. The TR3B ultimately goes back to the testimony of one individual, Mr. Edgar Foucher, who unfortunately passed away back in 2017.
00:07:40
Speaker
He claims he worked at Area 51 and that these triangles were back engineered from purported recovered ET technology in the in the 1980s, 1990s. And I don't question the fact that he worked at Area 51. There has been some documentation floating out there that tends to support he did work there.
00:07:58
Speaker
But as I always like to say, just because he worked there, it does not automatically lend creams to this story of the TR-3B. And again, there's strong belief systems on both sides of the fence as it relates to that. The only thing I like to say is if the TR-3B exists, let's see some official documentation. Let's find other informational sources other than one individual. And even if you believe in the TR-3B and that it was manufactured in the 1980s, 1990s,
00:08:26
Speaker
It doesn't explain some of the historical cases that we have, which I'll share with you and your audience today. Something else, though, that has clouded the triangular UFO subject, in my opinion, are patents such as this one. This was one for a, quote, triangular spacecraft, unquote. It was filed back in 2004.
00:08:46
Speaker
Notice I have, underlined in red, published in 2006. But I spoke with a friend of mine who's actually a researcher in the UFO field. He worked at the US Patent Office for many years, specifically in the area of aviation aeronautic patents. And he looked into this and he stated that the patent for this particular device was never issued. So notice it says published. And at the bottom there of the screen, you can also see publication number
00:09:15
Speaker
And compare that to this one, which has also been out there on the internet. Salvatore Pice is a well-known aerospace engineer. He did file this in 2016. And in fact, in this particular case, unlike the previous one, a patent was issued in 2018.
00:09:32
Speaker
But again, even if a patent was issued in 2018, it does not necessarily support the fact that we have a full scale working model of this device. The patent is only a proof of concept. It does not necessarily have to have a working model to get a patent. If you research patent law and you talk to my friend who worked at the patent office, he will tell you, if you don't have a working model, you at least have to have a detailed blueprint
00:09:57
Speaker
that is based in science that shows evidence that this is a true proof of concept, that it could be developed, given the required resources for such a patent.
Historical Sightings and Consistent Characteristics
00:10:10
Speaker
And then we also have statements like this. I was on a History Channel television segment for the Unidentified series back in 2020 prior to receiving these case files. And a researcher had stated that from the 1970s onwards, you get this increasing trend of people that see giant triangular objects or wedge-shaped objects. And he added that the easiest place to look for an answer is popular culture.
00:10:33
Speaker
He then went on to state that the film he remembered seeing from childhood where he saw this triangular shape or wedge shaped object was the first Star Wars film. And he stated it was released in 1977, which it was. And he described about this huge imperial star destroyer coming into view. And he basically goes on to suggest that this is the same period of time people start, that's the operative word, start seeing these huge dark triangular shaped objects with pulsing lights.
00:10:59
Speaker
The fact is, in going through these case files, which I've been reviewing for the last couple of years now, you find evidence of earlier reports of triangles. This is Hazleton, Pennsylvania, November 12, 1957. And I love when I stumble across headlines like this, reports citing flying triangle over city. And it goes beyond just a triangular shape.
00:11:22
Speaker
if you notice the underlying segments there it resembled a triangle with a light at each corner which hovered and then all of a sudden it stopped dead, hovered, started to spin in other words made a flat turn and it started to go back in the direction from which it originated. So the boxes at the top there with the red lettering these are the characteristics that I outline in my book
00:11:46
Speaker
that are now exemplified in these quote unquote new old cases that I've stumbled across. That was in 1957 but we could look at 1960. A young girl sketched this object with crayon and this report was sent to NYCAP in 1960 and it was in Maine and they not only observed one triangle they observed five triangles moving about in the sky and you can see some of the highlighted areas there some of the characteristics
00:12:13
Speaker
They also viewed this through binoculars. Many of these historic cases were with the aided eye, not just with the naked eye, which is important. Obviously, it can glean a lot of additional detail in viewing these things through binoculars. But this is a case from 1960, another case from 1960, which is in my book for those that have read it. I found the original news clipping, though, not just a scan copy, but I found the original in the NYCAP case files.
00:12:39
Speaker
And this one demonstrated all the characteristics you see on the right side, silent flight, slow speed, ability to hover, rapid acceleration, etc.
00:12:47
Speaker
Again, Flying Triangle is the title in the article there. 1965, I was really intrigued by this one, Vinny. This was over the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Washington State. We had a silent low flying triangle that was seen by an individual that was working at the Naval Shipyard. There were no lights on this particular triangle, but the ship's lights, the naval ship lights were reflecting on the underside
00:13:14
Speaker
as it very silently flew overhead. And what I found particularly interesting, I started looking at the Puget Sound Naval Shipyard history specific to 1965, and this is what I found. This might be another connection to nuclear weapons, nuclear storage, and nuclear devices as it relates to UFOs. 65 was the first year they started repairing nuclear-powered vessels.
00:13:39
Speaker
So I don't know if there's a correlation there, but I thought that that was an intriguing little bit of history that it just happened to coincide with the first year that they started working on nuclear powered naval vessels. 1966, we had sightings up in British Columbia, Canada, not just one triangle, but as you see there, two triangular objects, which for those that have read my book, quite often these objects will fly in pairs or groups.
00:14:03
Speaker
And again, it's very interesting to see these newspaper headlines from the 1960s describing this. And then we also have this particular report from New Hampshire in the mid towards fall of 1966. Triangular object lights at each point. And you can see here the witness on the NYCAP report form said definitely triangular shaped.
00:14:25
Speaker
It just looked black and went on to state. It just cruised slowly like a very slow moving aircraft. And in this particular case, they said it made a humming sound, which some witnesses in the modern reports, in absence of no sound, they will describe a buzzing or a humming sound. But this is in 1966.
00:14:46
Speaker
Later in 66, no exact date given, we have this triangular object. Again, light at each point. This one was relatively small though. If you notice the length there, 25 feet and the width 20 feet, people often labor under the idea that these are all massive objects. Of course, we have the Bentwaters incident where they described a triangular object, but it was relatively small.
00:15:09
Speaker
So there are some accounts of small triangles in addition to these massive 300 foot in length triangular platforms. Another one from 67, this is again from the NYCAP report forms. We have this object, no sound was detected. But what was interesting about this one, Benny, is the witness, as you can see at the bottom there, saw something leave the triangular object and then return to it.
00:15:37
Speaker
And this is very reminiscent of the Belgian wave and other cases I have on file. Sure. Where objects or lights detach and then go back to the parent object. And again, it's interesting to see this being reported in 1967 long before the Belgian wave.
00:15:54
Speaker
One that was close to home, I lived in southern Illinois at the time, very close to Scott Air Force Base. And of course, I investigated the very popular January 5, 2000 case, which is in the first two chapters of my book. Ironically enough, in 2005, I acquired another collection from the UFO study group of Greater St. Louis. And for those that don't know, this was actually the precursor to MUFON. The founding members of MUFON were part of this organization.
00:16:21
Speaker
And in addition to news clippings and books and journals, I acquired all of their case files in going through them. As you can imagine, this sketch caught my eye on this particular triangle or this particular UFO report, namely this triangle with windows on the side. Interestingly enough, this object was sighted within a half mile of the flight path of the triangle case that I investigated from January 5th, 2000.
00:16:48
Speaker
So the same area, very close to the same Air Force Base, but a completely silent triangular platform. I did an interview with the witness. I tracked him down about 40 years later and conducted an on-camera interview with him.
00:17:04
Speaker
And he described it very uniquely. He said, the object always seemed to be, to me, looking like the shape of a slice of pie. He said it was triangular. It had thickness to it. And it just took on that appearance, like a slice of pie, which I thought was an interesting description. Absolutely. And then this is what it looked like. It was actually a dark triangle with these illuminated rectangular square windows on the side.
00:17:31
Speaker
And then for those that think these massive triangles with the points of light are just relatively modern reports, this is from Indianapolis, Indiana in 1969. And you can see the witness here states, the lights definitely were affixed to the points of the triangle. And the witness goes on to state, and most strangely, I did not even hear a suggestion of a sound at all. And he went on to add, and I do have normal hearing. And then this is the sketch he provided in 1969. Wow.
00:17:58
Speaker
And again, this could be a modern report that we received yesterday from someone either in the UK or United States or elsewhere. But this is 1969. We have reports of these triangles being documented. And then one of the most famous cases, actually the first
00:18:14
Speaker
flap or consistent series of sightings in a fairly confined geographic area was in Lumberton, North Carolina, 1975. Again, I touched on this in my book. This was an artist's rendition of the sighting, Dale Hendrickson, who actually does work on the Simpsons animated TV series. He created this for my friend and colleague Lee Spiegel, who you can see pictured there in the upper center frame. He was sent down to Lumberton to interview police officers
00:18:44
Speaker
that were reporting this triangular UFO. And Dr. Hynek requested that he go down and interview them. And as he was standing in this clearing, which you see depicted in the artwork there, the officers were showing him where they had seen a triangle the night before. And they had stated that it started as a light off above the tree line.
00:19:03
Speaker
And as they're describing it, a light appears over the tree line and essentially what they saw the night before played out while Lee was standing right there. And as the triangle came overhead, Lee and all these police officers suddenly saw this beam of light shine down from this completely silent triangular platform.
00:19:21
Speaker
multiple police officers, not just the ones you see pictured here, but additional police officers in and around Lumberton, North Carolina reported this. I do have the original Kufos case file on this. It's about two inches thick. And in one particular case, I found it extremely interesting. One of the police officers was sitting in his squad car by himself and suddenly noticed an object hovering over his vehicle.
00:19:45
Speaker
He got out, stood up, the object shown a spotlight down, much like you see here. Then the object started to move off. The officer got in his squad car, started chasing the object, and was able to clock the UFO with his radar gun moving at 200 miles per hour.
00:20:04
Speaker
So oftentimes we hear about military radar. It's not often we hear about police radar, a UFO, let alone a triangular UFO in 1975. But this was what was really unique about this. And it's almost prophetic for those that have read my book and looked at the characteristics I outlined in this letter from December and Dr. Heineck's personal files, which I have here.
00:20:25
Speaker
He states in reference to the Lumberton case that there were a number of factors that he thought made these sightings a genuinely unexplained phenomenon, namely that they were V-shaped or delta-shaped objects, absence of noise, ability of the object to hover for extended periods at low altitudes, ability of object to execute flat as opposed to banked turns, and the object seeing a treetop level and even descending below treetop level several times.
00:20:51
Speaker
And of course, the lighting configurations not being compatible with conventional aviation lights. So, it's interesting because those characteristics I incorporated into my book. So, Dr. Hynek was very prophetic in documenting these characteristics because as I continue to gather more data, they tended to play out time and time again.
00:21:11
Speaker
And then just real briefly, I don't want to dwell too long on the slides. Two years later, we had another sighting by multiple police officers in and around Memphis, Tennessee, describing, as you can see there, a triangular shaped object. The gentleman that you see there in the color photo is Officer Todd. I've been trying to get in touch with him, but have been thus far unsuccessful. But I'm hoping to secure an interview with him because he has talked publicly. And there are some interviews on YouTube where you can hear him describing
00:21:39
Speaker
this triangle that could hover, accelerate, completely silent, low altitude flight, all the characteristics that we're familiar with the modern reports.
00:21:51
Speaker
But that's just some of the things I
Sharing and Digitizing UFO Archives
00:21:52
Speaker
wanted to share. This is just a portion of the lecture that I'm actually giving currently across the country that I started last year. And so trying to engage, as I mentioned to you, Vinnie, before we went on air, that in absence of people coming to the archives, it's my way of being able to share some of the archives with them. And as I often state, it doesn't matter what I personally believe, it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.
00:22:18
Speaker
what matters is the data. And these are the historical records. These are the contemporaneous reports we have. Absolutely. I agree. I mean, I had a message today just now you've said that about someone saying, do you believe this? And my answer straight away is it's not about my belief. Right. Why? What you do as a researcher is follow the information and data. You may not like the result, but that is just the process that you have to go through. So I completely agree. We have to divorce our personal beliefs and biases.
00:22:44
Speaker
When we look at this, I mean, we truly have to be like a juror. We have to be objective and try to weigh the evidence. And I can't ignore, and by the way, the total amount of triangle reports I found looking from 47 to 77 respectively in these case files was over 102.
00:23:04
Speaker
So this is just a sample of the case files that I have found in which I do have in my lecture that I'm getting currently across the country. Fantastic. So would you say that you learned a lot of your skills as far as the research that goes during your time with MUFON and things like that? Absolutely. I cut my teeth as an investigator with MUFON. I always had an interest since an early age.
00:23:26
Speaker
and had never obviously conducted investigations into anything, let alone UFOs. And so I think I was 21 when I started at MUFON. And it's really a great proving ground to hone your skills, learn basic techniques of investigation.
00:23:43
Speaker
And one of the great pleasures I have, Vinnie, in addition to doing podcasts like this with yourself and your audience, is being able to go around. I mentioned last week when I was in Phoenix, presenting to the MUFON group there. Within 2 or 3 weeks, I'll be up in Denver, Colorado, presenting to the MUFON group. I love being able to travel the country because I don't have all the answers. I don't have all the data.
00:24:05
Speaker
It's great to engage with these MUFON investigators who say, David, I just had a triangle case about two months ago. I'd love to share the information with you. And we all share information. We all have our own little data sets we're sitting on. And I always think in life as well as ufology, we're all teachers and we're all students. We can learn, but we can also teach.
00:24:25
Speaker
And so being able just to network as we do, it's just the best way I think to really try to get all this data gathered. And the more data sets we have, I think the better clarity we're going to have as far as what we're dealing with.
00:24:39
Speaker
Absolutely. I mean, I've been lucky enough myself to make a lot of connections in the past year. And now it's just the amount of knowledge that I've been privy to discuss and learn. I think we have a lot of mutual friends and colleagues in this field. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Now, I mean, just looking behind you, I can see just how amazing your research room looks. I'd love to go one day. But could you just give us some of the names of a few people that we might have heard of that have actually visited and done work there with you?
00:25:07
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, Barry Greenwood, Jan Aldridge, who are two of the leading historians, of course, they're my mentors, to be quite honest with you.
00:25:14
Speaker
And I'm happy to say, I respected their work when I first got involved in UFOs and now I'm happy to say they're dear friends and colleagues. My wife and I had them stay with us for two weeks in September of last year. And it is just one of many trips they're going to make out here because our ultimate goal of any is to not just have a physical archive. The ultimate goal is to have a digital archive whereby you can be there in the UK. We can have people in South America and Canada
00:25:44
Speaker
that can access digitally all of this material. And I won't go into detail because we're doing a lot of work right now. We just digitized over 46,000 images from microfilm. We have an exhaustive microfilm collection of news clippings, case file reports that the general public has never seen. I just literally last week received an external hard drive with 46,000 images, which I haven't even had time to go through to be honest with you.
00:26:11
Speaker
Again, Antonio Vinayas's collection is here. But Barry and Jan, they've been here. Mark Hartzman, who many of you may not know that name, he's not necessarily a representative of the UFO community. He's written several books on different topics. He's working on an incredible book. It's a coffee table book on UFOs and its history. And he was here in October of last year.
00:26:36
Speaker
used a wealth of information for his book, which will be forthcoming probably in the next five to six months. So Mark Hartzman is his name, wonderful gentleman, and he's got some great information in there derived from the archives here. In addition to that, James Fox was here. He has told me repeatedly, David, if it wasn't for your archive, I couldn't have made the first half of my movie.
00:27:00
Speaker
All the visual elements, all the audio recordings that you hear in the first hour of James' documentary are from the archive here. And he was like a kid in a candy store. He would open a drawer and start pulling stuff out, saying, we have to incorporate this. We have to incorporate. And of course, Vinny, as you know,
00:27:14
Speaker
He started with this much and with the editing process, it comes down to about that. So there was only a fraction of what you saw that he actually scanned and incorporated. But also Ross Colthart from Australia had a wonderful opportunity for Ross to come here. And he was able to go through some of the archives and case files. And we had a wonderful discussion on that. So working with him as well.
00:27:36
Speaker
and just any number of other researchers. Tom Whitmore from MUFON, he's on the MUFON board. Tom is going to be coming out. We've tried to schedule several times to come out here. Michael Schrat has made a number of visits out here as well, and just any number of other local researchers, statewide researchers, but we get a lot of foot traffic. Admittedly, during COVID, things kind of ground to a halt, but we're starting to ramp up now.
00:28:02
Speaker
and have additional people coming out. And not only people coming here, Vinnie, I should add that on a weekly basis, I at least get one request, someone looking into a case or someone, maybe their father had a case. I just had my friend, Katie Page, who is the Colorado move on state director. Her family member had a UFO sighting and was interviewed by Heineck. And she wants to come down to go through the Heineck papers to see if she can find her relatives UFO sighting report.
00:28:30
Speaker
Oh, that's wonderful. Yeah, so it's really it's it's a pleasure to be able to fulfill those data requests for people. Yeah, I'm just gonna give a shout out because Mr Graham Rendles here. Hello Graham. Good to see you. So that being Graham one day Graham will go out and we'll go and visit David and we can do some research as well. Absolutely. That would be wonderful.
00:28:50
Speaker
Good to see you Graham. Thank you and Graham actually spoke with you on his podcast literally was I think it was this week And some of the microfilm that I still have to go through I was telling Graham I do have Foo fighter reports that have not seen the light of day I have tons of night fighter squadron reports and we're talking literally many tens of thousands not hundreds of thousands of pages most of which has nothing to do with UFOs and
00:29:16
Speaker
But interspersed in there, according to Jan Aldrich, he stated, he goes, there are Foo Fighter reports in there that we need to scan and share. And I told Graham that I want to definitely get that information to him once I do derive that. I bet he was jumping for joy. I think I heard him celebrating actually over his microphone.
00:29:34
Speaker
Absolutely. Now someone else we saw in your room there was Christopher Mellon in the Unidentified series and you actually brought him up when you did speak to Ross Coulthart. So can you tell us about why you think Christopher Mellon is such an important figure in this
Notable UFO Cases and Patterns
00:29:50
Speaker
subject?
00:29:50
Speaker
Well, let me back up because, you know, obviously, Chris has gotten a lot of notoriety since the New York Times article. But in point of fact, Vinny, I actually got in touch with Chris about two or three years prior to any of that taking place. I had gotten a phone call. I was on a business trip in El Paso, Texas, and I got a phone call driving back to Albuquerque where I live.
00:30:14
Speaker
and from the MUFON director at the time, and he stated, Dave, do you know Chris Mellon? And I said, well, I know of Chris Mellon, not certainly as we do today in UFO circles. I said, I know of Chris Mellon, but I said, I certainly don't know him. He goes, well, he wants to know you. And he goes on to state,
00:30:29
Speaker
He has a vested interest in these triangular UFO reports. And he asked, who would you recommend I talk to? And he said, well, Dave literally wrote the book on the subject. I think you should talk to Dave. So he goes, do you mind if I share your cell number? I never do that without asking the individual. I said, of course. So it took us about three weeks, Vinny, for us to align our schedules. But literally sitting right here at this desk, in this chair, about two years, I guess, before Unidentified ever came on the TV show, or three years now.
00:31:00
Speaker
We sat for an hour and a half and the first words out of Chris's mouth humbled me, to be honest with you. He said, David, I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me. When your book came out, I read it cover to cover. I'm a huge fan of your research, which
00:31:13
Speaker
Coming from someone like Christopher Mellon, that's high praise indeed. I mean, as I always like to say, having gotten to know Chris now on a better level, Chris is someone that doesn't suffer fools. He doesn't waste time with people that don't have their feet planted firmly on the ground that are looking at this subject.
00:31:44
Speaker
And then, ironically enough, after season one of Unidentified aired, I got contacted by the executive producer. And they said, we'd like to do an episode on triangles for season two. And I said, oh, you must have talked to Chris. And the producer didn't know what I was talking about. He goes, no, why would you say that? I said, well, Chris has an interest in triangles. Really? I didn't know that. And then I proceeded to tell him what I just told you and your audience. And he goes, well, he goes, I'll definitely have to talk to Chris about that.
00:31:57
Speaker
And so we talked for abou and he expressed his int
00:32:12
Speaker
I'm never a prima donna. I never try to set expectations ahead of time or put constraints. But he goes, would you be interested in being part of season two? And on this particular case, Vinny, I said, if you can get Chris to come out and talk to me about the subject, then I'll do it. So I did have some preconditions on this one. And so as I think many of you and your audience saw in season two, I think episode two, Chris did come out here. And it was wonderful to have an in-person
00:32:40
Speaker
face-to-face meeting and talk about it. Admittedly, it was chaotic. We had one day of filming and we only had this much time to really talk really on substance. We had a lunch break and a coffee break and it was during that time in my kitchen.
00:32:55
Speaker
sitting out on my patio. We talked about the UFO subject, but we do keep in touch. We still continue to email each other and text each other with information. And as I've been actually putting this historical data together, Denny, those that are particularly interesting, like the Puget Sound case,
00:33:12
Speaker
I thought that that would appeal to Chris from a national defense standpoint. And so he was very happy to have that. And he even said, do you mind if I share this with some of my colleagues? My colleagues, I don't know who that is or where they are. But I said, I'm an open book. My data is here for anyone that wants to look at the subject seriously.
00:33:31
Speaker
Yeah, that's amazing. I mean, the episode came across so well. It was great to see it happening. Now, one case that stood out to me in the past year that I actually heard you talking about, but I've not really seen it anywhere else is the Farmington Armada case. You mentioned it in an interview with George Knapp last year, and I was just fascinated from the moment I heard about it. But like I said, I've not heard of that case anywhere else. So would you mind just giving us a little overview of the case and then
00:33:58
Speaker
Absolutely. No, absolutely. Vinnie, I have to tell you, it's one of those historic cases that, to your point, never really got its due. And partly, I think it's due to the fact that this particular episode or series of episodes, I should say, played out in March of 1950. So we were only three years into the modern age of the UFO phenomenon.
00:34:23
Speaker
And the reason I say that is I don't think a lot of work was done on it because the groups I mentioned earlier, such as NYCAP, didn't form until December 1956. And even CSI New York didn't form, I believe, until 53, 54 timeframe. So there were no organized bodies in the United States collecting UFO case material. NYCAP did retrospectively go back and try to gather news clippings and things like that.
00:34:52
Speaker
But I moved here with my job here to New Mexico in 2012. And after writing my book and doing some lectures on the subject, I was actually going up to Farmington on business, ironically enough. And I thought, well, while I'm up here, I have to take advantage of this opportunity. And so started digging into it. And I was amazed at the amount of data that we had on this case, specifically
00:35:17
Speaker
Stanton Friedman was here at my home before he passed away some years back. And I was telling him about my initial work on the case. And he looked at me, he goes, you should check James McDonald's files in Tucson, Arizona. I think James did some investigation on that case. So I did. I believe it was 2015. I went to the University of Arizona in Tucson. And for anybody that ever goes through Arizona, if you're interested in UFOs,
00:35:53
Speaker
his audio recordings with witnesses. He interviewed two witnesses which are recorded and admittedly he was again retrospectively looking at this because he didn't get involved in UFOs until the mid late 60s. But he interviewed a couple witnesses and in addition to that he had detailed notes of interviews and some of this information you will not find online, you will not find it in news clippings. It was based on his personal
00:36:07
Speaker
go to the University of A you'll be a kid in a can actually leaf through Dr
00:36:20
Speaker
interviews with individuals that were involved in the case. But basically what transpired, Benny, for those that aren't familiar, for three straight days, broad daylight sightings of anywhere from single to dozen to hundreds of structured flying saucers, for lack of a better term.
00:36:38
Speaker
There were bankers, there were shop owners, there were housewives, people coming out in the streets, traffic literally grinding to a halt as people were watching these formations moving in different directions over the city, broad daylight sightings of structured objects.
00:36:55
Speaker
Interesting note, talking about the case files, which are immediately off camera here to my right, one of the things I looked at when I first got these delivered in addition to triangles was I wanted to see, is there anything on Farmington? Most of what was there was stuff I already had gathered, news clippings, et cetera. But working with Jan Aldrich and Barry Greenwood, and I love telling the story because people always ask me, do you ever have any aha moments going through these files?
00:37:22
Speaker
I was talking to Jan and Barry on the phone, as we often do, and Barry said, I'm looking for a case from the Yukon territory.
00:37:30
Speaker
in October, 1950, and they're talking. And I said, gentlemen, I'll just put you on speakerphone. Keep talking. I've got the files right here. Let me look while we're discussing this. I go through the NYCAP file. Some are clearly noted as location, date, and time. Other ones are just lumped into a general catch-all folder, such as October, 1950. So I'm going through October, 1950. And as I'm leafing through it, looking for a case for Barry,
00:37:58
Speaker
Lo and behold, I see a witness name on a report form. And the witness's name was Hulon Pace. H-U-L-O-N-P-A-C-E. Admittedly, not a common name. I've never heard of a Hulon before, let alone a Hulon Pace. I saw that. And Vinnie, as I've told the story a number of times, if anyone else were to leave through those files, it wouldn't have registered. You had just kept leafing through it.
00:38:25
Speaker
I stopped and I froze because one of the names in my research on Farmington, one of the witnesses was Hulon Pace. But I'm going through an October 1950 file. Now, mind you, the Farmington Armada case was the 16th, 17th, and 18th of March, 1950. I pulled the file out. It talks about the Perry Smoke Chevrolet Garage where he worked, which is where the other witnesses worked, the majority of the witnesses that were involved in the Farmington case.
00:38:55
Speaker
And then he goes into describing what they observed. It matched what the other witnesses described for Farmington, but it was noted that this occurred in October 1950. Now, mind you, it was a NYCAP and an APRO investigator that were jointly interviewing this gentleman in the late 60s.
00:39:13
Speaker
For researchers that are listening to this, you'll understand and then you probably experienced this yourself. People don't always remember the date of their sighting if it happened decades ago. But they remember little things like I remember I had my favorite leather jacket that I always loved to wear back then. So it couldn't have been the summertime. It must have been either the spring or the fall.
00:39:34
Speaker
And in this particular case, Hulon erroneously stated the sighting happened in October 1950, when in fact it was the Farmington sighting from March. But what is unique, and this is the bombshell moment for me as a researcher, after all the decades of news clippings and written testimony from these witnesses, one of the things we never had, believe it or not, was a sketch of the objects. And Hulon Pace,
00:40:03
Speaker
in this 1960s account of the Farmington incident, sketched the object as it looked on the side and as it looked like this. And it was a typical disc. In addition, in addition, on the report form, he listed two additional witnesses by name that were never part of the historical record. So we had two additional witness names that we never had before. And it was simply by virtue of looking for this other case for Barry that I happen to stumble across this in the thousands of case files that I have here.
00:40:33
Speaker
That's an amazing story. I love it. And I love it when things like that, when you get a name, it just, it's another avenue. And that's just, what more could you want? Well, and Vinny, as you know, having done research yourself, you can never say a case is closed because you never know when you're going to stumble across new data. Absolutely. Yeah. As evidenced by this Farmington case.
00:40:53
Speaker
Yeah, now that's wonderful. One thing I wanted to ask is that I've not heard about any instances of triangles either landing or potentially crashing. Is there anything in the records anywhere?
00:41:07
Speaker
Not that I found, uh, there, there are a couple of counts where a triangle was observed, uh, hovering approximately one foot above the ground. But to your point, I have no documented accounts of a triangle being seen on the ground or leaving, uh, some type of landing trace having touched the ground. And I always like to say, when you're looking at all of these hundreds and thousands of cases,
00:41:31
Speaker
Yes, you look for those things that fall into patterns, but equally so, not only is it important with the things we see, what are the things we don't see? And to your point, as I think I put in my book, I don't have any accounts of triangles landing. It's strange. It's really strange. And then also one thing I always find strange when thinking about triangles is so many of the accounts, they are very low. Even these
00:41:58
Speaker
you know, giant ones are low and slow. So they're certainly not making any effort to being conspicuous or hide or anything like that. Any theories on why that might be? Well, I think Chris touched on an interesting theory. When I first got involved in the triangle research, I thought at the time, because again, most of the triangles that we're used to seeing look something like this, right? This is a model someone made for me for lectures. But this is going to be the quintessential triangle that most people think of, correct?
00:42:27
Speaker
as far as that goes. But in fact, many of these triangles have complete absence of lights. The Puget Sound case that I alluded to from the 60s, there were no lights evident. It was strictly the light shining up from the ships, the naval ships that illuminated the underside. In addition to that, many of these historic triangle reports and modern reports describe the object glowing.
00:42:51
Speaker
like the entire object is bathed in an orange or red light. But they don't have specific lights at the points like we often see. An initial theory or hypothesis I was working on was, I don't think that these things have to adhere to standard aviation lighting configuration. So I don't think these lights are lights as such. They're probably an inherent part of the propulsion technology that we're seeing.
00:43:17
Speaker
But as again, as we talked about, Vinnie, it doesn't matter what I believe, I got to go where the data takes me. Yeah, of course. I started getting too many reports of triangles that were completely devoid of any lights. So if the lights are indicative of the propulsion system that gives it lift, how can we have reports of triangles that are not illuminated yet are aloft? So I had to kind of disavow myself from that initial idea.
00:43:43
Speaker
And so, but then Chris hit on something and the more and more I thought about it after we did that unidentified episode and it plays out our discussion on that episode for those that haven't seen it. He speculated that due to the fact these things fly slow and low and quite often they seem to move in a grid pattern. Many of the witnesses have stated in the reports I have, it was almost as if it was looking for something. And Chris came up with an interesting idea that maybe these things are scanning.
00:44:12
Speaker
And the reason they're doing a grid search is they're doing a detailed scan of either the surface or subsurface elements. And the more I thought about that, I think that that fits the data. And in that case, these lights may not be lights that are part of the inherent propulsion system. They could be sensing elements or scanning elements, some type of sensor array.
00:44:34
Speaker
that is collecting data. And in fact, I didn't have time to show obviously all of these historic cases in my new lecture. I have a number of wonderful sketches by witnesses, Vinnie, where you see a tree line here.
00:44:49
Speaker
and you see a triangle, and they sketch the triangle moving like this, and then they sketch that the triangle actually had to go up to clear the trees and then drop back down. So many of these objects, like Heineck mentioned in that letter that I quoted, many of the objects are seen below treetop level. And a number of cases also describe that the object had to increase altitude to clear the power lines. And initially I thought, again,
00:45:15
Speaker
It was propulsion technology. That's the lights. And the reason they're flying low is because they're evading radar. Because I thought, well, we have a corollary for that. We fly low to evade radar. But then taking Chris's elements and then, again, following the data, I think we have to be true to the data. I think scanning to Chris's point, I think that might be hitting the nail on the head. And the other thing is this.
00:45:40
Speaker
If we're dealing with a craft involving technology of some type, whether it's human, or I hate to say it, extraterrestrial, let's say other. Let's just go with the amorphous category other. If we're dealing with our technology or someone else's, this technology, these objects are purpose built.
00:46:03
Speaker
Right. We build a vehicle to as a sports car to go fast down a highway. We also have Jeeps and off-road vehicles to go over rugged terrain. We also have construction vehicles like a backhoe to dig a hole if we're going to lay pipe underground.
00:46:18
Speaker
I think that these UFOs and the different types that are being described are based on that. The objects we're seeing are designed, their purpose built. And that's not my idea. This is a suggestion that was floated to me by John Alexander. He said, when we build a bomber, we don't build an aircraft and say we're going to make it a bomber. We build a bomber with the specs to accommodate the mission. And I think these triangles, to Chris's point, are designed as such to do triangulation, to do scanning,
00:46:48
Speaker
And unless someone can offer a better explanation, I think that's the leading hypothesis at this point.
00:46:54
Speaker
I think it's a great hypothesis, yeah. Hopefully one day we'll know more. That'll be great.
Trans-Medium Flight and Historical References
00:46:59
Speaker
Now, I'm going to get to some viewer questions shortly, but one thing I wanted to speak about is this trans-medium thing that we've heard a lot more about in the last few years. I mean, there's talk of this elusive photograph that apparently exists that shows a triangle that has emerged from the ocean and has risen to 30,000 feet and been snapped by a pilot. Now,
00:47:20
Speaker
you know, how many cases in the past or not how many, but have there been many cases of transmedium, especially ocean-based triangular cases?
00:47:29
Speaker
I don't think I have any historical cases on file, to be honest with you. Yeah, involving trans-medium flight. We have other, I should be very clear though, we have other UFOs that need to go from the air to water, water to air. But I can't think of one triangle report that actually demonstrates trans-medium flight. And again, that's not to say that they don't exist. It's just, admittedly, one out of every 10 UFOs are probably officially reported. So as I always like to say,
00:47:59
Speaker
even all of the data that I'm dealing with here, it's table scraps relative to really what's going on out there. Sure. That's interesting. I find that really fascinating. Right. Let's get on to some of these guys' questions. Christian here, thank you for the donation, Christian. And it's just a comment saying thank you for your research you've done for years. Thank you, Christian. Really appreciate it. Thank you, Christian. Laura Sosa asks, are there any triangle craft cases with lights at the three points but transparent in between?
00:48:28
Speaker
Yes, I actually have a slide in my presentation. It doesn't show three lights. It actually shows multiple lights. But Omar Fowler, who was a great UK researcher I was in touch with back in the 90s and early 2000s, he was a pioneer involving triangle UFO sightings. He had a case involving a triangular frame, if you will, that was open in the middle. They could see the stars through the middle, but not around this triangular frame.
00:48:55
Speaker
And ironically enough, in the NYCAP reports, I found one from, I believe, late 50s or early 60s that shows the same type, a triangular framework that was hollow in the center. They could see the stars in the middle, but they could clearly see the outline of this triangular frame. In Omar's particular case, I believe the triangle was flying with the flat side as the leading edge. And in the case I had, the triangle was moving with the point as the leading edge.
00:49:23
Speaker
So we do have some accounts, not a lot, not a lot. I would say a handful of reports that describe that, but a great question. Yeah, absolutely. This kind of leads into David here's question, which is, have you ever wondered why triangular? Anything to do with propulsion? You know, it's a great question. And again, initially I thought, well, triangles, we have B2 stealth bombers, we have F1 17A stealth fighters, we have a history of Delta Wing,
00:49:50
Speaker
aircraft and it makes sense from an aerodynamic standpoint. And I'm going to resort to my model here again, though. The thing I like to point out, though, is in addition to the length and the width, we also have thickness. And this is really great that I can demonstrate this because I tried to describe this. I think I lose people on it. But when you have an object moving like this, with the flat side as the leading edge and thickness, as I always like to say, Denny, you basically have an aircraft that's aerodynamic as a brick. Yeah.
00:50:19
Speaker
So it makes no sense that we have these objects moving like this, which obviously suggested some other type of propulsion technology that's allowing these things to move through the air.
00:50:29
Speaker
But initially, I did think that, of course, this could be something military, could be the next gen stealth aircraft. But when, again, you follow the historical record, and luckily, I have unfettered access to this historical treasure trove of historic cases, and I've had the unique position to go through these historic case files. When you see these things stretching back to the 40s and 50s, if not earlier,
00:50:53
Speaker
You almost create a revisionist history of aerodynamic design and principles if you believe that we had this kind of technology back then. And I know there's proponents of, well, the Nazis had this incredible technology. And I don't subscribe to that. I think that the authors of those books and those ideas, I don't think that they've made their argument a solid argument for that. And as I always say, if they had that technology, I think we'd all be speaking German today.
00:51:20
Speaker
Yeah, that's a conversation that myself and Graham Rendell and our colleagues have all the time is, why do people keep banging on about this Nazi technology? And Denny, I should add that in addition to UFO history, I'm a huge fan of history. My home's full of antiques. I'm also a huge World War II historian fan, amateur, admittedly. And I've studied the aerospace or the aviation designs of the Germans in World War II.
00:51:50
Speaker
They do have some incredible technology for the time, but it doesn't border on the science fiction level that we're hearing these proponents saying, well, they have all these UFOs and they're all down in Antarctica. It's just, it's a fantasy. It's a revisionist history that they've created. And I know many people like to gravitate towards that. If you're going to make that, you have to have conclusive evidence to support that contention. And I haven't seen it in my opinion. No, I agree completely. Great stories, but that's all they remain at this point. Agreed. Yeah.
00:52:20
Speaker
um healthy mbs any known stories of native american law of flying arrowheads in the sky that's a really good question especially with me being here in new mexico we have the pueblo just north of me here um i haven't researched that particular aspect i would argue you probably would find some if you looked uh hard enough in in the records i will add though uh
00:52:44
Speaker
hearing the description flying arrowhead, there was a case in Dallas, Texas in the 1950s where hundreds of people saw a triangular object. It was one of the early accounts. It made newspaper headlines. We had actually Blue Book, had some Blue Book record cards on this in Hynix files.
00:53:02
Speaker
And the newspaper accounts and witnesses described it as a flying arrowhead, exactly what we see there listed in the question. And it was basically an arrowhead-shaped triangle that was moving erratically in the sky. I believe they even had a tract on radar and it was observed by FAA personnel at Dallas.
00:53:23
Speaker
But I haven't explored going back into ancient history. Admittedly, there's only so much I can do by myself. But if there are people out there that are interested in triangles that do have a working knowledge or have data related to that, I would highly encourage other people to start branching off into these areas to see what they can gather, because no one person can do it alone. But collectively, we can start gathering a lot of information from various sources.
00:53:49
Speaker
Absolutely. That's fascinating to think that they were seeing them that far back as well. So yeah, great question. A couple more. Jimmy the Earthing says, Mr. Marla, any reports of silent triangles in, I guess, Southern California, February, March, 95? I'm sure there were, because the 90s were extremely prevalent with triangle reports, as you know, Vinny. That's where they really seem to explode, looking at the frequency data.
00:54:15
Speaker
None that I can think of off the top of my head, though. I'll be honest with you, the last two years I've been immersed in the 1940s, 50s, 60s, and 70s case files. But I would argue if you go to the National UFO Reporting Center website, I would be surprised if you didn't find silent triangles being reported in that area around that time frame. And it's interesting talking about California as well.
Explaining and Distinguishing UFO Sightings
00:54:40
Speaker
In my full lecture,
00:54:43
Speaker
I actually addressed triangles that had prosaic explanations. There were a number looking at the historical record. One of the most prevalent was over Madrid, Spain in September of 1968. And then we were talking before we went on air that there's so many cases that you just can't mentally keep track of it all. Yeah, I do remember this one for a reason. September 5
00:55:06
Speaker
and September 7, 1968, tens of thousands of witnesses observed a flying triangle in the sky over Madrid, Spain. It was the largest publicized triangle case that I've ever found. It was in, I've got news clippings from all over the world that document this with a photograph. The reason I remember the date so well is it was on the 5th and the 7th of September 1968.
00:55:31
Speaker
I was born September 6th, 1968. So during this wave of sightings in Madrid, Spain, that was my birthday sandwiched in between those two sightings. But we have the official documentation from the director of meteorology in Madrid, Spain, as part of the NYCAP investigation file, signed by the director of the Meteorological Institute. It was in fact a French atmospheric weather balloon.
00:55:58
Speaker
And it is a triangle, but it's interesting when you look at the reports because initially the reports say flying triangle as you look at other reports in the case file, which is fairly thick, because again, it garnered lots of media attention. Some of the accounts described it not as a triangle, but an inverted pyramid.
00:56:17
Speaker
And anytime you have this thing that comes to a point, my first thought is, is it a balloon? Whether it's round or whether it has facets to it. And in fact, they provided photos showing it. I have the original signed statement from the director of meteorology. And interestingly enough, a month prior to that, they had a sighting by the Soviet military. And I know George Knapp has referenced this to support Jeremy Corbell's triangle video.
00:56:44
Speaker
But in my opinion, what was filmed over Riga Latvia was the exact same type of balloon. If you look directly underneath it, it looks like a triangle. It is, in fact, an inverted pyramid that is shiny, semi-transparent. And if it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. And so in those particular cases, those were explained. And referencing Southern California,
00:57:11
Speaker
During the development of the B-2 stealth bomber, UFO researchers at the time were getting reports of silent or near silent bat wing shaped UFOs. And it wasn't until years later when it was declassified, the B-2 came out and we found out that they were actually doing test flights.
00:57:30
Speaker
over the California airspace areas there. And that's what people were in fact seeing. So I think as researchers, we need to call out those IFOs just as much as we call out the UFOs, because admittedly, there are skeptics that say, you look at every case and you immediately jump to extraterrestrial. Well, I don't for those that know me. But we do, I think, need to call out the IFOs when we do find them.
00:57:51
Speaker
Completely agree, yeah. Last question here is from Madav. Is it possible to determine or hint to the physics that is used by the triangular craft? Do the smaller ones exhibit any different characteristics from the big ones? Really good question. I mean the devil's in the details to the question there.
Physics and Specialization in UFO Research
00:58:13
Speaker
I'm not a physicist so I leave that to people that are way smarter than myself. I'm a historian and a researcher but I'm not a physicist so
00:58:20
Speaker
If there are any physicists out there that want to collaboratively work together, I'm more than happy to share my data with them. As far as the smaller craft exhibiting different characteristics, they seem to exhibit very similar characteristics in the sense that they can hover
00:58:37
Speaker
They're silent or near silent. They can rapidly accelerate away. They seem to move oftentimes with nonlinear motion. One of the characteristics that I outlined that I've seen with the smaller objects as well as the larger ones is this what I call erratic movement. That was the best term I could use because in the vertical plane, sometimes these objects are reported to move in a stair step manner like this.
00:59:02
Speaker
And in the horizontal perspective, as the objects moving, they'll zigzag. Many of the reports state that the object was zigzagging, left, right, left, right, as it departed to the south or the north.
00:59:17
Speaker
something again that does not seem suggestive of conventional aircraft or conventional jet propulsion. So to the question, there's clearly some other type of physics being employed here. What that is, again, I would have to resort to the physicists. And likewise, Vinny, I often get questioned about, well, what do you think about the UFO videos or photographs that are circulating on the internet?
00:59:40
Speaker
Um, I don't get excited by those. I think looking at YouTube videos is entertainment. It's not research. Um, but I'm not a photo video analyst. People send me photos and videos all the time and say, what do you think I can give you my opinion, but I'm not a photo video expert. You know, I have to stay within my lane. If you want an expert to evaluate this, I would be happy to give you the name of an individual and then let you have that dialogue with them. But that's just not my area of expertise. You know, unlike some.
01:00:09
Speaker
pseudo researchers out there that I like to call. I don't profess to be an expert on everything. No, I'm the same. I get sent videos all the time. And yeah, it's the same thing. I give my opinion. I do have some friends who have forensic software and are able to do that. And I happily pass it to them. But
01:00:27
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, again, there's only so much each one of us can do. But it's much like I work in the medical field, it's like the medical field, you have specialists, you know, if you think you have suspicion of cancer, you don't go to a cardiologist, you go to an oncologist. And likewise, if you have a heart condition, you don't go just to your primary care doc, you probably want to schedule an appointment with your cardiologist. So I think we all have our areas of expertise. And I think we need to be careful when we start making opinions
01:00:53
Speaker
when we really don't have the scientific acumen or the knowledge base to really weigh in on that. I think we need to be honest with ourselves and say, you know what? I don't have enough information to really give you an honest opinion. I recommend you talk to this individual.
01:01:09
Speaker
Excellent, that's great. Listen just before we finish this has worked out quite well as we've just hit the hour mark. Now obviously we mentioned at the start that this is your last interview probably for the year. You know I think a lot of people will be sad to see you go from from the scene but I'm sure you'll be back next year. Where can people keep up with what you're going to be doing for the rest of the year?
01:01:28
Speaker
Yeah, well, probably my website, Vinnie, and thank you for that. www.davidmarlerufo.com. I'm my webmaster. I'm my researcher. I do everything myself. I don't have a staff. So it's woefully in need of being updated, my website. But as certain things do develop, I'll share that with you. But as Vinnie mentioned, there's only so much time in the day between work, family, UFOs, and interviews.
01:01:57
Speaker
And I've had a couple requests to write some forwards to books, which I've been engaged in. But the main thing that I've been focused on is data acquisition, because as you saw evidence by the cases I shared with you, just a small handful, an example.
01:02:13
Speaker
Those were cases I found as a result of getting the NYCAP KUFO's case files. Now I have this incredible foreign collection of material from Antonio Huneas later this year and we're actually working on the logistics of transportation right now as we speak.
01:02:28
Speaker
Philip Mantle in the UK. He is going to be shipping his entire collection of case files and materials that cover 45 years here to Albuquerque because ultimately this collection will go to the University of New Mexico here in Albuquerque who I have a great working relationship. They want to be able to preserve all of this data and information, historical material for future generations, which admittedly right now we're at a crossroads as it relates to the subject. UFOs are mainstream.
01:02:57
Speaker
It's no longer fringe. And so I think historians today, in 10 years, 20 years from now, are going to want to look back at that history. Because right now, the official statements made by the US intelligence, they're not touching on it. The narrative, the prevailing narrative is it all started with the Nimitz incident in 2004 moving forward. And of course, you and your audience of any know that that's not the case. We have seven and a half decades worth of civilian military case files worldwide.
01:03:26
Speaker
And now this being the 75th anniversary of the modern age of UFOs here in 2022, 75 years ago, Kenneth Arnold's sighting. I say now more than ever, history is important. Yeah, absolutely. Well, listen, this has been an absolutely fascinating conversation. I'd love to stay in touch. I won't pester you, I promise. But not at all. Yeah, it'd be good, because in a year or two, we do plan on coming out to the US and meeting up with a lot of people. And like we said earlier, networking is great.
01:03:54
Speaker
you know, be good to stay in touch. But yeah, any yourself and your colleagues as well as anyone that's listening, if you're ever coming through New Mexico, the Albuquerque area, I do make this room open for serious researchers. So if you'd like to come and see the collection, if you happen to be making your way through here, if not, if there's information you're looking for, feel free to reach reach me through my website. As I mentioned, I try to fulfill data requests when I can. So if there's any information I can scan an email to you, I'm more than happy to do that.
01:04:22
Speaker
That's wonderful. Thank you. I've popped the, in the description below, I've popped your website so people can always come back and find it there. But yeah, thank you so much, David. Thank you, Danny. It's been a pleasure. I really appreciate it. Thank you to everybody in the live chat and for all the great questions. Always appreciated. I'm going to be back sometime in the week, but you can find me on all my social medias and get all the information of the shows I've got coming up.
01:04:46
Speaker
But for now, everybody, I'm going to say goodbye. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And we'll see you on the next one. Bye bye. You're listening to the anomalous podcast network, multiple voices, one phenomenon.